The cause of disasters Boeing-737 could be cheap programmers from India

104
The cause of the crashes of Boeing-737 Max aircraft could have been an attempt to save on programmers. It is reported by the news agency Bloomberg, with reference to former engineers of the aviation industry.





Former engineers of the Boeing aerospace company claim that the failures that led to the crashes of Boeing-737 Max airliners, and, as a result, to one of the most protracted crises in stories companies could have been caused by attempts to bring low-skilled and cheaper specialists to work on complex software.

It also claims that one of the largest suppliers of airliners in the world fired experienced engineers and forced suppliers to cut costs.

Boeing hired cheap companies from India


The largest American aircraft manufacturing corporation and its subcontractors hired software development and testing specialists in countries that do not have significant knowledge in the aerospace industry. Most of all such cheap workers were attracted to India.

“Specialists” hired under a similar scheme received 9 dollars per hour. The federal minimum wage in the US in 2019 is 7,25 dollars per hour, it has not increased since 2009. That is, the specialists responsible for the development of safety-related software received a little more than the minimum.

According to Mark Rabin, a former Boeing software development engineer who worked in the flight test group, offices located across from the Boeing Field airport in Seattle, recent college graduates hired by Indian software developer HCL Technologies Ltd., occupied a number of jobs.

HCL coders are usually programmed according to specifications issued by Boeing. However, often these rules were simply ignored by cheap and not very experienced workers.

Thanks to the involvement of Indian companies, Boeing received multibillion-dollar contracts.


The involvement of Indian companies in the work on the aircraft gave Boeing and other dividends, in addition to direct savings on salaries. In particular, in recent years, the aviation giant has received several orders from New Delhi for the supply of aviation equipment for both military and civilian customers.

In January, 2017, the Indian airline SpiceJet Ltd, entered into an agreement with Boeing worth 22 billion dollars for the supply of 100 737-Max 8 aircraft. This was the largest order Boeing in the history of work with India. This contract made a small coup in a country dominated by the European company Airbus.

In the commentary, the HCL officer summarized his duties with reference to the infamous model, which began flight tests in January 2016:

Provided a quick workaround to solve the production problem, which would have caused 737-Max flight tests to be postponed (delaying any flight testing costs Boeing very expensive.


The corporation saved on everything


The engineers who worked on the Boeing 737 Max complained about the pressure from the managers who, in pursuit of cost cutting, demanded that they limit the changes that could lead to costs.

In addition, the company laid off highly skilled engineers, arguing that Boeing does not need so many senior engineers, since its products are mature enough.

The corporation itself, as well as its subcontractors, argue that safety has always been paramount for them, and that low-skilled personnel were not allowed to work on the most important systems.

Recent simulator tests conducted by the United States Federal Aviation Administration showed that software problems with the best-selling Boeing model turned out to be even deeper than imagined. After the regulator revealed another problem with a computer chip related to the delay in responding to emergencies, the stock of the corporation fell another few points.
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  1. +5
    1 July 2019 14: 34
    And I already thought it was a sinful thing that again we would be to blame ... Although
    1. +5
      1 July 2019 16: 30
      No, this time "effective managers"
      "Capitalism will go to any vile deed for the sake of profit ..."
    2. +1
      1 July 2019 17: 10
      Wait, wait, they still don’t remember about the Boeing design center Russia. Although there, like 737, they don’t do it ... but they don’t care. I'm afraid that there is a matsarevich for this situation ....
    3. +1
      1 July 2019 18: 43
      Here it is - "remote" work. And judging by the software on the F-35, the "domestic" programmers from the Yankes are no better
    4. 0
      1 July 2019 21: 03
      Quote: Govorun
      And I already thought it was a sinful thing that again we would be to blame ... Although

      Quote: Truth
      No, this time "effective managers"

      They finally admitted that the workers from the "d'effective menaKherov" are even those in Boeing, not only in Russia, in the space industry, as well as in the SeNeGe countries!
      Technology needs engineers! Now I think this is an axiom.
  2. +1
    1 July 2019 15: 11
    We do not appreciate the military-industrial complex of design engineers, software engineers at all! Humanitarians and lawyers are valued there ...
    1. 0
      1 July 2019 15: 17
      and who told you this yourself came up with. Technologists do not appreciate their salary of about 20 thousand rubles. But for programmers who write programs for manufacturing parts, it starts from 40 thousand rubles, and if a programmer mastered five axial machining, then at least 60 thousand rubles in the region to Moscow and Peter’s name is sn offer from 100 thousand rubles
      1. +4
        1 July 2019 15: 34
        Gee ... they tell you. Young people don’t go there who have a mathematical education ... even if there are 20 thousand salaries in the Queen, it’s considered good luck ... they cannot fill vacancies in the sectors for years, and if the 15th year they’ll be taught no more, and 10 years to plow up to the first category ... I won’t call companies because of their unwillingness to hurt them ... well, about 100 it’s all nonsense! Even in their coolest company 40 thousand ... in Moscow, the situation is generally lower than the plinth, Muscovites don’t go there, but for nonresident residents from Noginsk they can’t afford to ride a rex ... and the bosses don’t care
        1. -3
          1 July 2019 16: 03
          Well, as if looked in Moscow from 45 thousand rubles (maximum saw 150 tons) offer.
          1. +5
            1 July 2019 16: 36
            This is a hoax, as the average salary in the country
            1. 0
              1 July 2019 18: 34
              I personally know how much a technologist receives a programmer (writes programs for body parts) in a circle he has less than 50 thousand rubles. does not exceed. Yes technologists 25 thousand rubles. so to say, employers say that they have an excellent salary, although it’s already difficult to find 30 thousand with this money. Such a technologist’s salary (35 thousand rubles) is not a salary for a peasant, but you can easily work as a setup operator on PU machines where you can easily raise 25 thousand rubles. If you work hard up to 45 tons. Well, if six days a week, then 60 tons of rub. in your pocket there. The truth is that some of the youth working specialties do not attract her more and more like buzing for an oval and asking denyuzhku from ancestors for donations to oleshenka
        2. 0
          2 July 2019 00: 12
          The brother in the Queen in the RKK normally receives a programmer. You're lying. Throwing substance on a fan.
      2. +5
        1 July 2019 15: 40
        I will not comment in detail, just add that for 100 tr You will be charged with the duties of: a process engineer, tool engineer, tool design engineer, machining mode engineer, adjuster and, in fact, a programmer technologist, and also little things, such as finishing up post-processors, etc.
        1. 0
          1 July 2019 18: 01
          You are right and this is inevitable in a private company laughing The trick is that private initiative was truly rational only during the transition period, remember the NEP. In the post-Soviet era, a huge fleet of hand-held machine tools was inherited, the lack of computers and when replacing the technological structure it was possible to grab the owner and pay normally, due to the introduction of more efficient and productive equipment. Now the situation is different laughing , a salary of under 100 is paid in the defense industry and sharakah with state participation, because there the appetites of the leadership are cut by force, but at the moment we have a technological deadlock laughing and it will be 100 years old, so that production efficiency is equal, moreover, limiting the top makes it possible to increase workers' wages and spend on research. At the moment, government production is more profitable for society, and the owners are forced to cut social programs, increase the load since you can no longer squeeze out of iron, but you can cut back a person laughing Putin is right, the liberal idea is already becoming harmful to society, again the same NEP
          1. -1
            1 July 2019 18: 11
            I wrote specifically about the enterprises of the military-industrial complex, in private companies, the range of responsibilities, as a rule, is discussed during employment.hi
            1. 0
              1 July 2019 18: 29
              This is most likely squeezed money for nikor, or for something, production buildings, etc., etc. Governors are as smart as private traders, and you think with what fright the military-industrial complex is rushing with technologies and developments. I'm talking about theory, it will inevitably happen anyway. And the fact that the government is pressing money on modernization and demands from the leaders the same "efficiency" as from a private owner, it already smacks of sabotage, just where do you personally go? To a private trader - 20 sput, to the military-industrial complex - 20 sput laughing it is a type of market. They just use the situation, in high-tech industries the picture is completely different ... there are legs in the hands and where they pay well. Just admit that the state has higher potential
        2. -1
          1 July 2019 18: 38
          And why did you want to write the tool path using a 3D model (although this program will write for you). And let others do the rest. The tool engineer will pick up the tool and tooling, the process engineer will issue the technical specifications for the tooling, select the equipment and generally write the technical process and passport for the children.
          1. -1
            1 July 2019 19: 04
            Quote: bmv04636
            And why did you want to write the tool path using a 3D model (although this program will write for you). And let others do the rest. The tool engineer will pick up the tool and tooling, the process engineer will issue the technical specifications for the tooling, select the equipment and generally write the technical process and passport for the children.

            Do you propose to return to the artisanal form of organization of production? The drum in your hands laughing
            With current technology, one person is simply not able to perform such a combination of duties efficiently.
            1. 0
              1 July 2019 19: 31
              Well then why complain if you are doing only a third of the work. When you write up, you should already lay the tool and the machine on what you will do this. Most existing parts fit into three axes. And very few require five or more axles. Yes, there is a desire to do everything on one machine, but almost 60-80% is not advisable. The more axes the less rigidity of the machine is an axiom.
              1. 0
                1 July 2019 19: 41
                Parts and machines are different, in my practice multi-axis machining was used, either for processing "aerodynamic" surfaces, or to ensure the tolerance of the shape and location of surfaces.
                As for one salary, try at your leisure to study pieces of 50-70 enterprise standards and follow them wink You will make, at best, a semi-specialist, but in all areas! And use the term "axiom" less often.
                1. 0
                  1 July 2019 21: 13
                  If a large enterprise, then as I understand it, both the designer and the technologist are specifically sitting on the product. Well, modern CAD has not been canceled, which greatly reduces the number of people. Let’s take an example, a programmer-technologist writes a unit case part (milling, boring of several holes of different diameters, drilling holes for threading (thread milling cutter) on the OC 800 with a Siemens Sinumerik 840D rack and here it is, what should I write a program without tool and tool binding. Who writes UP should write them on a specific machine with an indication of the tool and tooling (which is selected from the existing one, if not, it gives an application for a missing tool).
                  1. 0
                    1 July 2019 21: 46
                    Too simplistic you imagine it. Technologist develops those. the process selects the tool, if necessary, receives information from the tool engineer and the engineer on the processing modes, then orders equipment (for a specific machine), the cutting and measuring tool from a specialist. designers, then the drawings (rarely models) of all this crap are laid on the table by the engineer-programmer and he quickly (ideally) sculpts the UE and the Setup Card and implements the UE. If you notice, the technologist is the integrator in this circus.
                    In real life, it looks like this: a technologist, and a designer, for 20 tr. unable to sane to do their part of the work, for which the arrows are transferred to the programmer for 70 TR Productivity, with such an organization, is naturally none.
                    IMHO: You can’t hang on a person the duties that he is forced to do has fulfilled - regardless of salary.
                    PS All this is true only for large, serious enterprises.
                    1. 0
                      1 July 2019 22: 02
                      Oh, I also need a tool engineer and an engineer for processing modes plus a programmer. You're kidding me. The feed rate, cutting speed, revolutions, cutting depth, and the programmer writes what we are doing. The operator programmer writes simple programs without any technologist, especially without a programmer and engineer for the tool and processing modes. Yes, here’s the most important thing you forgot the standardizer without, nothing will come of it for you (to which the process engineer should give Tsht). Yes, you are right in the serious companies of the engineer for processing modes and tools replaces CAD. And yes, many companies operate the so-called engineering companies that turnkey technology. Just turn the services of their road, and the service is even more expensive
                      1. 0
                        1 July 2019 22: 12
                        It all depends on what you do: if you use, for example, heat-resistant alloys based on intermetallic compounds, then CAD and engineering companies will not help you. You too can’t deal with the test runs of the tool and look at the catalog of different manufacturers for a tricky cutter for some tricky groove, too, is none of your business.
                        Your approach is applicable in tool manufacturing (stamps, etc.), but in, for example, the aviation industry, it is better to pay people for a good job than a customer for a broken plane.
                        IMHO, of course - "effective managers" think differently. hi
                      2. -1
                        1 July 2019 22: 32
                        Well, as I understand it, whole institutes of research work in such high technologies and do not create something new from scratch. Well, where to go to medium-sized businesses, for example, which produces non-standard equipment, mechanical engineering. You offer me, for example, as a leader to keep a designer, technologist, tool engineer, engineer for processing modes, plus also a programmer. a total of six mouths per operator machine with PU is not too much when you can do two
                      3. 0
                        1 July 2019 22: 44
                        I do not offer you, at the moment I also work in medium-sized business, and I also use the work of adjustment programmers. drinks
                        But the article was, if you remember, about Boeing and its savings on specialists smile
                      4. -1
                        1 July 2019 23: 31
                        an article about "effective managers" would be better if they saved on themselves. The technological degradation of the United States and not only were right
      3. +6
        1 July 2019 16: 41
        In my Rybinsk, there are many enterprises working in the military-industrial complex and so on. UEC-Saturn makes aircraft engines, the Vympel plant builds boats and small ships, and another group is engaged in instrument-making (instrument-making plant, KB Luch, NPF Start, and there is still a trifle).

        Here RZP on the site has vacancies with salary figures. Any 60 t. it doesn't smell there. The design engineer is offered already 22 thousand rubles - a couple of thousand less than the cashier in Magnet
        http://rzp.su/job/job.php
        Other enterprises do not advertise the amount of salaries, but according to rumors from there, everyone roughly fits into a 20-30 plug, which is less than the average salary in the city that Rosstat draws (34,9 tr. Before deducting personal income tax)
        It is not surprising that programmers at enterprises do not linger for a long time, dump in specialized software development firms, in which we offer newcomers ~ 30 tons, and after a few years of work we get 50-60 tons, or even more .
    2. 0
      1 July 2019 15: 59
      Ah, here it is, as Boeing is not to blame, it turns out India is the culprit! wassat
      And the fact that US planes are able to be controlled by commands from their own satellites and the pilots become monkeys there is nothing? bully negative The United States is not to blame for this, isn’t it?!? belay
      1. 0
        1 July 2019 16: 33
        No, of course, it's those. the task stipulated is the transformation, at the request of the Pentagon / CIA / NSA, of an aircraft into a cruise missile. I apologize for the conspiracy theology. wink
      2. -1
        1 July 2019 17: 04
        Quote: keeper03
        US planes are able to be controlled by commands from their own satellites and the pilots there become ...

        But this thesis can be expanded and with the source please, because half the world flies on these airplanes and is somehow exciting. recourse
        1. -1
          2 July 2019 15: 49
          All hi , personally, the one who set the minus - do you believe in this nonsense or do not fly airplanes? Either bring the facts, or refresh yourself with cold water. With such cockroaches in my head, walking is probably a bit old ...
    3. +3
      1 July 2019 16: 39
      But Yandex-Food appreciates its couriers :)))
      Asked like one courier, how much do you earn?
      He says if 5 days a week, then 60-70t rubles, I’ve got it! Well, I think it happens. Another braked with the same question ... the same thing if you plow for 6 days then 65-80t rubles come out. All Moscow in large numbers is full of young people running with a havchik for others. So run through the future of the country.
      1. +5
        1 July 2019 17: 42
        Yandex programmers also pay well. My son worked there at one time, though later he went to free bread.
  3. 0
    1 July 2019 15: 12
    As always, anyone is guilty of the Yankees, but not them! This is their greed sideways Boeing comes out! Could write the software themselves, so no, greedy! !!
    1. 0
      1 July 2019 15: 33
      Effective managers have deliberately managed.
    2. +1
      1 July 2019 16: 28
      They wrote on the profile forum that they cost $ 9 per hour for our money 100tr per month, which turns out to be a not very cheap programmer by Russian standards.
    3. +1
      1 July 2019 18: 04
      Quote: Thrifty
      As always, anyone is guilty of the Yankees, but not them! This is their greed sideways Boeing comes out! Could write the software themselves, so no, greedy! !!

      Damn, did you read the article? It is written in black in Russian that the American managers who saved on skilled labor are to blame.
    4. 0
      1 July 2019 18: 27
      so they used to write themselves, and then the "effective" costs began to be optimized ...
  4. +2
    1 July 2019 15: 13
    Boeing-737 Max became a sales leader shortly after it was announced in 2011. But for ambitious engineers, it was a bit of a “swamp,” said Peter Lemme, who designed the autopilot for the Boeing-767, now a consultant. The Boeing-737 Max was a 50-year-old design upgrade, and the changes had to be limited enough so that the Boeing could stamp new planes like hot cakes, with small changes for assembly lines or airlines. “For an engineer, this is not the best job,” Lemm added.
    And someone laughs that we still do Niva
    1. 0
      1 July 2019 15: 29
      The new generation of managers will bring Niva to a bucket of nails, literally ...
      IMHO hi
    2. +2
      1 July 2019 17: 28
      In 737, all structural materials changed and three generations of engines changed. Just because of replacing the engines with more powerful, but more economical ones, the whole fuss was started. They are larger in diameter and hung higher.
      Power and location have changed the dynamics of take-off. I had to redo the software. And they made bugs.
      1. 0
        1 July 2019 18: 31
        we can probably say that we did not test it properly, there will always be bugs during development, experienced developers will do less, "green" - more ... it looks like they also saved on testing ...
        1. 0
          1 July 2019 18: 34
          Right. Previously, they were checked by state inspectors on simulators.
          But over the past 10 years, the Boeing has achieved such a low accident rate (according to statistics) that they were allowed to do self-checks. Well, the Boeing and relaxed, began to hack.
          1. -2
            1 July 2019 19: 13
            I think it's not a low accident rate, but a banal bribe. And statistics and causes of accidents, for money, you can draw any. Especially in the USA, with their "culture" of lobbying. wink
            1. -1
              1 July 2019 20: 11
              ". And statistics and causes of accidents, you can draw any for money" ////
              ------
              How's that? belay
              Aircraft or fall, or do not fall.
              And statistics calculates how many hours are in the air, how many hundreds
              issued liners one drop.
              And with no bribes, these figures cannot be changed.
              1. 0
                1 July 2019 20: 19
                Elementary - MH-17, MH-370 in what statistics on Boeing did you get? What was the largest plane crash in terms of the number of victims? And after that, is it the safest? A vivid example of the objectivity of the investigation is the MH-17, when the owners of the plane are not allowed even close, but some of the suspects are "investigating".
                1. -1
                  1 July 2019 20: 23
                  Do not drive ... In the world fly 12 thousand airliners. A day going on
                  up to 50 thousand take-offs and landings.
                  And more than half of them are Boeing firms.
                  1. 0
                    1 July 2019 20: 30
                    Did you learn this from the American press? And the first man in space, Alan Shepard, and Russia attacked Georgia, and the cruiser Maine and the Gulf of Thin. Any information is printed for money.
                    1. 0
                      1 July 2019 20: 32
                      From Google. Type: "how many planes are in the sky now?"
                      And do not disgrace yourself with such childish questions.
                      1. 0
                        1 July 2019 20: 36
                        If lying could be a pretext for war, then promoting the product of "US national pride" is a "holy cause." smile
                      2. 0
                        1 July 2019 20: 43
                        Be informed before writing.
                        July 2 2018
                        The number of aircraft in the sky broke a record

                        RIA News
                        In the sky recorded a record number of aircraft flying on one day. It is reported by Newshub.

                        According to online services, for the day on June 29 in the airspace for the first time there were more than 200 thousand airliners, namely - 202 aircraft per day
                        .
          2. -3
            1 July 2019 19: 26
            You mind Peter Lemme. Well, how do you explain that in fact two max fell one after another, taking with them more than 600 lives eh?
      2. 0
        1 July 2019 20: 11
        What bugs. If the problem was in broken sensors from the angle of attack, and not in the software itself.
  5. +5
    1 July 2019 15: 27
    I already wrote that with the replacement of engineers by "managers", no saboteurs and saboteurs are needed anymore. This "not only" Boeing concerns ... sad
  6. +3
    1 July 2019 15: 29
    It is well known in the specialized circles of programmers what a specific Indian "cat-code" is. Hindu programmers are paid for lines of program code, so pieces of code appear that at best do nothing, and at worst, this is a consequence of not a timely reaction.

    But the Indians are not even to blame. They are only who they are.

    These are highly paid regular effective managers who have the same name.
  7. +2
    1 July 2019 15: 33
    For a moment, $ 9 / hour to "cheap" unskilled Indians, who are exploited and robbed by multinational corporations, creating American super-wealth - this is at the current rate of 100 rubles a month.
    1. +1
      1 July 2019 16: 10
      we are talking about Seattle, in which $ 9 per hour * 8 hours a day * 5 days a week * 52 weeks a year = about $ 20 thousand a year for a programmer should be very cheap, at the end of the last century local "young specialists" there received a little more than $ 40 thousand per year
      at $ 9 an hour in those parts, you won’t particularly eat ...
      1. +1
        1 July 2019 16: 18
        As I understand it, the Indians did not move to Seattle, they worked for themselves in India. If they were Seattle Indians, they would hardly have agreed to program for the salary of a cleaning lady.
        The software product does not need to be transported by ship across two oceans, so its production can be easily delivered to another country.

        PS I clarified - I was mistaken - we are still talking about encoders in Seattle https://m.aftershock.news/?q=node/767100
        1. +1
          1 July 2019 16: 33
          "Engineers in India were making about $ 5 an hour, which is now $ 9 or $ 10, compared to $ 35-40 for those in the US on an H1B visa, adds Hilderman."
          1. +1
            1 July 2019 16: 50
            That is, after all, in India? Then generally interesting. Even 5 bucks an hour is 880 a month, or 54 thousand rubles. Very sour money for Russia minus Moscow and St. Petersburg.
            1. +1
              1 July 2019 17: 17
              for a top or middle level encoder, this is a 2-week fee ... in the worst case ...
              1. 0
                1 July 2019 17: 57
                In large cities and cool companies like the aforementioned Yandex - I admit it. But in our city, coders receive this amount per month. And these are not beginners, but an intermediate level, for beginners thirty. "In two weeks" this amount is beaten off by the heads of departments and directions.
                Not everything is so simple :)
                1. 0
                  1 July 2019 18: 02
                  I sympathize...
                  1. 0
                    1 July 2019 18: 47
                    It's not that bad yet. In other spheres, we have 30-35 thousand - this is the upper limit for ordinary workers, and for the "non-commissioned bosses" it is also not a little.

                    But yes, the most experienced programmers, ambitious and those who have sewed in the ass - dumped in the MSC, St. Petersburg or some kind of remote.
                2. 0
                  1 July 2019 18: 34
                  and in Moscow, for a "green" graduate, thirty a month is the usual salary ...
                  1. 0
                    1 July 2019 18: 49
                    In what area? For us, this is only common for coders, and even then it is not everywhere (I mentioned above that so many coders receive experience in factories in factories). And in other fields of activity, the green graduate will receive 20, and up to 30 may not grow in 10 years.
                    1. 0
                      1 July 2019 19: 05
                      hh.ru on request "Moscow, programmer, start of career" gives out salary of about thirty
        2. 0
          1 July 2019 17: 58
          read the article ...

          Mark Rabin complains about replacing the "old guard" with yesterday's students
          “Yesterday's graduates, hired by the Indian software company HCL Technologies Ltd, occupy several rows of tables at the Boeing Field offices in Seattle (officially King County International Airport, at this airport Boeing has its own hangar and conducts aircraft tests - approx. Transl.)” says Mark Rabin, a former Boeing engineer who worked in the 737-Max series testing group.


          and Vance Hilderman - on "dumping" by the Indians
          “Design has begun to turn into cheap goods,” adds Vance Hilderman, co-founder of TekSci, a contracting services company that began to lose orders due to foreign competitors in the 2000s.
          According to Hilderman, a thirty-year-old security engineer whose recent clients include major Boeing suppliers, US avionics companies, have moved more than 30% of their software development overseas over the past few years, compared to only 10% of European companies .
          A strong dollar was the key to the attractiveness of this model. Engineers in India earned about $ 5 an hour, now it’s $ 9 or $ 10, compared to $ 35-40 for those in the US with an H1B visa, adds Hilderman.


          it turns out the Indians reached a good level of payment ...
        3. 0
          1 July 2019 18: 05
          Quote: ak747
          The software product does not need to be transported by ship across two oceans, so its production can be easily delivered to another country.

          to give it away is of course easy ... but we read the same article:
          Boeing has also expanded its design center in Moscow. In 2008, during a meeting with the chief engineer responsible for the Boeing-787, one employee complained that 18 times sent drawings to a team in Russia before they realized that smoke detectors should be connected to the electrical system, said Cynthia Cole, a former Boeing engineer who led the union of engineers from 2006 to 2010.

          I suspect that most competent developers still fell from the Moscow center to Seattle ... why work for $ 10, if possible - for $ 40 ...
      2. 0
        1 July 2019 18: 25
        Evil tongues say that in those parts and at $ 14 an hour you will not eat! Lying probably!
        1. +1
          1 July 2019 18: 45
          there is an opinion that normal life begins there
          ... in the region of $ 150 thousand per year before taxes.

          vc.ru/life/42846-tarify-na-zhizn-v-sietle-shtat-washington
    2. 0
      1 July 2019 18: 34
      That's not a lot. The programmer - the game designer, that is, the developer of computer games, gets more. And on a remote site. And then a whole Boeing!
  8. +2
    1 July 2019 15: 47
    It is clear that the "former" engineers are angry, they were replaced. But I do not think that the Indians are so stupid, most likely that they all studied at American or British universities, otherwise they would have to confirm their level of education according to the US criteria. And Boeing is not the same office that, even in spite of the current situation, would start recruiting people "from the street."
    1. +4
      1 July 2019 16: 37
      most likely that they all studied at American or British universities

      If this were so, then no one would have hinted that they were Hindus, much less that they were cheap.

      But the fact that they put all the blame on the program ... but something like that. We took the glider from the old Boeing, sawed new engines to it, this changed the alignment of the fuselage. The glider was not redesigned so as not to complicate and lengthen the certification time, but they decided to fight the changed alignment with the very automatic nose-lowering system. What technological solution to go nuts is a crutch on a crutch, at the same time from highly paid engineers. And of course, the cheap Indians who wrote the software are to blame for everything ... well, yes, yes, yes.
      1. 0
        1 July 2019 18: 47
        But this is closer to the truth. Instead of redesigning the stabilizer, instructed software crutches. Moreover, apparently, they did not provide for control of the installation angle hand-to-hand.
    2. +3
      1 July 2019 16: 39
      That's right, there are shoals for everyone. To recall the same Toyota with its failing brakes - after all, there it was not a question of the Hindu outsourcing, Japanese kodosamurai were nabedlokodil. The problem is rather in the management and badly put integration testing.
    3. 0
      1 July 2019 19: 02
      people are certainly not "off the street", but the question is just what qualifications they are
      Rabin, a former programmer who was laid off in 2015, recalls how one of the managers at the general meeting said that Boeing does not need seniors, as their products are already quite mature. “I was shocked that in a hall filled with a couple of hundreds of mostly senior engineers, we were seriously told that we were not needed ...”

      fired their "old men", hired outsourcers and "students" ...
  9. +1
    1 July 2019 16: 08
    A friend works in Shchaty as a department head in a software company - said that Indians are the most stupid miracle on earth. It takes mainly Slavic brothers to work - Russians, Bulgarians, Serbs, etc.
  10. +3
    1 July 2019 16: 24
    That is, Boeing did what ALL companies around the world do. There is a rapid general degradation of the entire technozone. The undivided dominance of financiers in all spheres of human activity comes at a price. The price is taken in blood and the future.
    Have dear readers noticed that nothing really new has been produced in the world for a long time? And what is produced, how is it surprisingly bad and does not work for long? Professionalism is not just expensive these days. It is "too expensive" to use! These engineers themselves demand high salaries, and they always push expensive materials, expensive equipment, expensive everything into the project!
    This is intolerable for the financial "mind"! Due to the fact that financial "education" does not give a person anything useful except arithmetic, and all management is limited to this "education" (I cannot recognize managerial training as "education" even in parentheses), our affairs are bad ...
    1. 0
      1 July 2019 20: 02
      Quote: Mikhail3
      ... financial "education" does not give a person anything useful except arithmetic

      It seems that they are just badly "friendly" with arithmetic, if they cannot estimate and compare the benefits of saving on software development and reducing test / certification time with losses from two accidents and the subsequent ban on the operation of the 737th Max ...
      1. +1
        1 July 2019 22: 40
        You are not aware of the procedures adopted by American companies. It compares the results quarterly. Good profit per quarter (or significant savings), and you get excellent bonuses, plus your rating as a specialist increases markedly. And there it is not customary to work long in one place, it is believed that if a person is not promoted during the year, he is unpromising.
        So "good block" and you quit with decent prospects and a bonus. You find a better job somewhere else. It is the engineer who cares about how his product will work (and he will never quit. He will not leave his brainchild. And he does not care if he is considered "promising" or not ...) Engineers do not fit in.
        1. 0
          2 July 2019 10: 16
          Well now, the management and shareholders of Boeing will have enough time to think about the effectiveness of this approach to bonuses ...
          PS and this approach is not only found in American companies ...
          1. +1
            2 July 2019 16: 31
            And time will be, and opportunities. There will be only specialists. A specialist is a piece product, requiring decades to form, and for complete degradation several months are enough, after which it is no longer suitable and will never be suitable.
            You come to him, waving pay and opportunities, and he tells you - why do I need all this? I got a dusty job here, stopped burning my brain with the utmost stress, stopped thinking about work day and night, my life is full and pleasant (the specialist doesn’t live like that, he’s on fire). Go forest. I won’t go to rake your hard work. And that’s all.
            Go look for another. Where only it is not clear. Or educate, help, spend 15 years and mountains of money for those who will never become specialists of this level (but how do you know who will become and who will not? Everyone needs to be taught and trained, resigned to losses). What, you don’t have 15 years? Well then die, there’s no way out anyway.
            Of course, the cutest Russians launched a lot of programs, after which the best in full force left for the United States. It’s very convenient - they pay for training in Russia, consume US graduates and a little Europe. But no one will give the REAL training programs to the Russians (and they themselves do not and cannot have), so all these guys still have to finish their years ...
            In general, this whole picture is very bleak ...
            1. 0
              2 July 2019 17: 16
              Well, what is 15 years for Boeing then? yes, in the end, they can lure someone from Airbus ...
              1. 0
                2 July 2019 17: 53
                Within a year of such a peak, only one name will remain from Boeing. You can lure "someone" away. And they need a whole team that has not been created at all. Indian plowmen are thousands of people in general. Low-skilled and stupid, but necessary to push buttons. Instead of them, it is necessary to take somewhere not one or two, but hundreds of pros. Then you need to shovel the entire code, touch one mistake there, and this whole flawed structure will collapse altogether.
                Where are these hundreds? They had to be prepared, trained, raised ... Airbus didn’t have them either. There is the same story, it’s just WHERE is more lucky.
                1. +1
                  2 July 2019 18: 07
                  Well, then then in a year (or at the end of the investigation) we will see ...
                  1. 0
                    2 July 2019 18: 19
                    Maybe we won’t see. The security system remained in aviation from the old times. At a time when another disaster calls into question the legendary safety of the whole industry, major players come together to eliminate problems and failures. And they work as a unit to defeat another ambush.
                    I am very interested in what remains of this system, and whether it will work at all ...
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. -2
    1 July 2019 17: 06
    Here it is US capitalism, where we have been striving to get for so long. We didn’t do our new aircraft; we completely lost the civilian plane Yak. The Americans gave money so that we could close our factories, so that we could buy airplanes from them, and shrug our GDP, explained to everyone I can’t get our carriers to buy Russian airplanes, they are not competitive. Why did he go to the presidency so that we would buy everything from abroad, and the president said that he could not force anyone to buy our planes. Here is an example for us, the Boeing Aviation Corporation saves on everything in order to make a profit at all costs, and I thought that the life of passengers is the most important thing for Boeing Corporation manufacturers.
    1. +2
      1 July 2019 17: 32
      The Boeing as a whole has a record low accident rate. Every 5 seconds, somewhere in the world, a Boeing takes off or lands. Are there many accidents?
      Because of this almost zero accident rate, they relaxed. And the federal authorities stopped checking them.
      1. 0
        1 July 2019 17: 46
        Unskilled professionals who hired to work in a Boeing? For what purpose? To save and make a profit. Why didn’t they hire highly qualified American programmers, they regretted the money, and they didn’t feel sorry for the people who died.
        1. 0
          1 July 2019 17: 50
          Boeing software is complete and in addition to critical and highly qualified. The same entertainment media centers in the back of the front seat should also be written by someone.

          If a cleaning lady is needed in Boeing, this does not mean that she needs to take a candidate of science for her position.
          1. 0
            1 July 2019 17: 56
            It is usually accepted, both among them and ours, that the choice of specialists is not the one who is qualified, but the one who is cheaper, the law of capitalism has arrived at all costs.
            1. +1
              1 July 2019 18: 05
              In our state-monopolized economy, yes. And in a competitive market, for such a thing you simply fly out of the market, giving way to those who can do business in the first place.
              1. 0
                1 July 2019 18: 40
                In the production of passenger aircraft, Boeing has only one competitor - Airbus. The Chinese have not yet invented, and Russia has lost its civil aviation industry.
                1. +1
                  2 July 2019 07: 09
                  Well, Airbus will be ceded if management is not brought to life.
        2. +2
          1 July 2019 17: 53
          Indians are usually hired by QC - software checks.
          Any plane crash with casualties is a huge financial loss for the company. Therefore, it makes no sense to talk about "pity people" or not. They can be absolutely ruthless, but they are obligated to make cool planes for profit. As it has been for many years.
          Two accidents in one year nullified their profit many years ago.
  13. 0
    1 July 2019 17: 14
    a truly correct "race of Americans" could never make a mistake in the MOST COMPLEX code, unlike the man-apes of the third world countries ...

    But seriously - software testers are an unknown profession ... for a weak-minded engineer, for sure ...
  14. -2
    1 July 2019 17: 18
    Anti-advertising. Sounds like gossip.
  15. 0
    1 July 2019 18: 02
    A cheap programmer ... this is even new, the written software works after running, or does not work in principle. Well, if temporary bugs were left by "cheap programmers" - maybe the customer threw it with payment ???
  16. +1
    1 July 2019 18: 13
    Quote: Nycomed
    But I don’t think that Hindus are so stupid, most likely that they all studied at American or British universities, otherwise


    The point here is not stupidity, but education.
    On average, a "Hindu coder" is someone with an incomprehensible basic education, who graduated from the same incomprehensible college (vocational-technical school) in sunny India. To the level of the university, he is like from New Delhi to that very Seattle in the pose of a laundress ...

    But modern management does wonders. Hire these coders in bulk through some kind of gasket. And no “otherwise”. Mountains of code are growing, bosses and investors are happy. And by the time when it is necessary to disentangle, the glorious effective managers with economic and legal education will raise the software to an unprecedented level somewhere else. With the help of all the same Indians, essno.

    In a good way, the problem is not with the Indians, the problem is with the management.
    And this also applies to Russia. Even more so than companies like Boeing.
    We were not the first to come up with "effective managers", but we just didn't want to.
    We don’t even need to hire Indians, our economist lawyers succeeded even without them.
  17. 0
    1 July 2019 20: 16
    Ah, there it is, programmers are to blame. Well, the stump is clear, but top management needs to be dismissed, it’s not they who set the tasks, these are the curved-armed coders of the gag messed up, yeah. This time, don’t take it off.
  18. 0
    1 July 2019 22: 28
    Quote: Diversant Holuy
    Gee ... they tell you. Young people don’t go there who have a mathematical education ... even if there are 20 thousand salaries in the Queen, it’s considered good luck ... they cannot fill vacancies in the sectors for years, and if the 15th year they’ll be taught no more, and 10 years to plow up to the first category ... I won’t call companies because of their unwillingness to hurt them ... well, about 100 it’s all nonsense! Even in their coolest company 40 thousand ... in Moscow, the situation is generally lower than the plinth, Muscovites don’t go there, but for nonresident residents from Noginsk they can’t afford to ride a rex ... and the bosses don’t care

    In the Aichi sphere, such salaries have not existed for a very long time. To whom are you broadcasting this nonsense to customers for a report on how they crap on the forum? Well, if only.

    Yes, the junes "work for food", figuratively speaking. If they don’t fall under someone’s wing and do not show themselves right away, then they will have to shrink for a year or two. The middle and especially the seniors receive other money.
  19. 0
    2 July 2019 03: 32
    With cheap fish - cheap and sweet!