BMP-1: The Chariot of Nuclear Battle

90
Of all the Soviet post-war armored vehicles, perhaps no sample received such a number of negative reviews as the BMP-1. That only about her did not speak and did not write. They recall a strange smooth-bore cannon, and insufficient booking, together with disputes, whether a large-caliber machine-gun would pierce armor or not, and insecurity from an RPG, and so on, and so on. The BMP-1 managed to serve for some time in the Bundeswehr under the designation BMP-1A1-Ost, 600 machines got from the abolished National People's Army of the GDR. So, pedantic Germans even noted that the troop compartment is too low and is only suitable for 25% soldiers (in winter uniforms - for 15%), and the seats are so narrow that they are suitable only for 35% soldiers. In general, not a car, but solid flaws.





At the same time, the BMP-1 was one of the most popular types of armored vehicles, there were about 20 thousand of them produced, and in the production of the BMP-1 was from 1966 to 1983 years. It may seem surprising that a combat vehicle with complete flaws was produced by such a large series. You might think that this is another example of domestic stupidity.

However, do not rush. When this car was done, the Soviet Army command consisted of people with the experience of the Great Patriotic War, who fairly smelled gunpowder. It is hardly possible to assume that in the post-war years all these officers were so stupid that they allowed this tracked drawback to mass production. They certainly understood well the nature of the war for which they were preparing, and the BMP-1 fully met their requirements. Otherwise they would have chosen some other construction.

Any military equipment is done under a certain tactic. Even if the command, for whatever reason, did not wish to make public what exactly it demanded from the designers, the combat vehicle itself still has a clear imprint of their plans, and these requirements can be inferred from the peculiarities of its design. In general, I believe that the BMP-1 was a good fighting vehicle, it just did not take part in the war for which it was created.

Critics of the BMP-1 almost always lose sight of what the car was different from all the other armored personnel carriers, namely, a curious combination of qualities: anti-nuclear protection and automatic sealing of the hull, anti-radiation podboi and ability to swim. It was the first in the world model of serial armored vehicles in which these qualities were combined. The BTR of the likely enemy, such as the American M113 and the German HS.30, did not have anti-nuclear protection and could not swim.

BMP-1 is among other Soviet armored vehicles that had anti-nuclear protection. Besides her, there were still Tanksstarting from T-55, and self-propelled guns starting from 2C3 "Acacia". Anti-nuclear defense provided protection against a shock wave of a nuclear explosion at a distance of about 800 meters from the epicenter of a tactical nuclear explosion (up to 20-30 kt) for tanks, and at a distance of about 1000-1200 meters for infantry fighting vehicles and self-propelled guns. Armored vehicles could receive some damage, but the crews survived and did not lose their combat effectiveness. Armor steel protected not only from the shock wave, but also from penetrating radiation. Radioactive dust could be washed off later, after the end of the battle.

BMP-1: The Chariot of Nuclear Battle

Exercise on decontamination BMP-1


Thus, a Soviet tank or motorized rifle division during the cold war could have fought near a nuclear explosion. In the previous article I already gave some information about the tactics of the offensive with a nuclear firing shaft, that is, the first strike was inflicted by tactical nuclear munitions (tactical missile or special equipment for self-propelled guns), and then the armor had to quickly go through the area of ​​a nuclear explosion, finish off the enemy, if there was one, and escape further into the operational depth.

With this method of warfare, it becomes quite obvious that the BMP-1 on the field of nuclear massacre simply should not have opponents capable of firing from large-caliber machine guns, RPGs or small rifles. weapons near. The BMP-1 didn’t expect that the enemy’s infantry would surround it and start watering the vehicle with small-arms fire. In the area of ​​a nuclear explosion, the enemy infantry will already lie dead, severely burned or strongly contused, in general, incapable of combat. Moreover, the BMP followed the tanks to the explosion site at some distance (about a kilometer or a bit more) and overcame the enemy’s defenses after the tanks had finished most of the survivors. Mine, of course, also should not be, because they detonate from a powerful shock wave of a nuclear explosion.

The only thing that posed a danger was the tanks and armored personnel carriers of the enemy with under crews. To combat them, the BMP-1 was equipped with the 2А28 Thunder, essentially an anti-tank grenade launcher, as well as the 9М14М Maly ATGM. Moreover, the priority target for the BMP-1 was the German BTR HS.30, armed with the 20-mm cannon HS-820, which is armed with the Bundeswehr, which was about 60% of NATO forces in West Germany. In a frontal bout of the German and Soviet vehicles, the German BTR had no chance: the frontal armored BMP-1 defended well against 20-mm projectiles, but HS.30 had nothing to oppose with the 73-mm cumulative grenade. The same can be said about the M113. Armor BMP-1 held a bullet 12,7-mm machine gun M2HV, while the cumulative grenade easily pierced the aluminum armor of the American BTR.

Buoyancy was needed for BMP-1 bypass. For example, there is a task to take a large bridge over the river, which protects the bridgehead - Brückenkopf. Since the bridge must be taken as a whole, the nuclear charge is not used. Tanks and self-propelled guns go into a frontal attack, and motorized infantry on an infantry fighting vehicle must swim across the river several kilometers from the bridge, and then attack the bridge and its defenders from the rear. This is the most effective way to capture bridges, well developed during the Great Patriotic War.

So, the BMP-1 was perfectly suited to perform typical tasks in the context of a nuclear war, when the main forces and equipment of the enemy were destroyed and suppressed by nuclear strikes. For these tasks, the car was armed not so well, and even excessively powerful, so to speak, with a guarantee. The designers also tried to improve the car due to the small height and small silhouette (which was important for protection from the shock wave of a nuclear explosion, and for reducing visibility for the enemy, and for making it difficult to defeat; however, they had to sacrifice the comfort of motorized infantry in the troop compartment). placed at the corners of armor plates. They also took care of the power reserve, having developed a clever idea to turn the doors of the troop compartment into additional tanks.


It's amazing how compact the BMP-1 is. A small little forest and a small fold of the area already makes it hardly noticeable, and, consequently, less vulnerable.


Try to think of something better for the nuclear battle than the BMP-1.

But such a large-scale war with the abundant use of nuclear weapons did not happen. And in the conditions of other wars in which armored vehicles found themselves in a variety of situations, the BMP-1 was no longer suitable, because its merits turned to disadvantages and the anti-nuclear protection was not needed.

So do not rush to criticize, if it seems that they have developed and massively produced an allegedly unsuccessful, with a lot of flaws, a sample of military equipment. Perhaps you just misunderstand something.
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

90 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +46
    19 June 2019 04: 38
    The author justifies himself too much. But the article is a plus. Imagine 1966 - the year the BMP-1 was adopted for service. Even 20 years ago, motorized rifles to the battlefield were delivered at Studebaker. A few years ago, the BTR-40 and BTR-152 were in production with open (mostly) cases and armor that protected them from rifle bullets. And THIS appears. In terms of aggregate combat qualities, it surpasses all infantry transporters available at that time. The fire support weapon is now at the squad level, rather than the battalion, as before. And now in the battalion there are not 4, but 40 pieces. The firepower of the division increases many times. And of course, the ability to act in conditions of the use of nuclear weapons.
    1. -8
      19 June 2019 08: 51
      Quote: Potter
      The author justifies himself too much. But the article is a plus. Imagine 1966 - the year the BMP-1 was adopted for service. Even 20 years ago, motorized rifles to the battlefield were delivered at Studebaker. A few years ago, the BTR-40 and BTR-152 were in production with open (mostly) cases and armor that protected them from rifle bullets. And THIS appears. In terms of aggregate combat qualities, it surpasses all infantry transporters available at that time. The fire support weapon is now at the squad level, rather than the battalion, as before. And now in the battalion there are not 4, but 40 pieces. The firepower of the division increases many times. And of course, the ability to act in conditions of the use of nuclear weapons.

      The author pulls an owl on the globe, and does not make excuses. He deliberately hyper-amplifies virtues and closes his eyes to shortcomings ....
      So:
      - not only BMP-1, but also M-113 floats (although, apart from inaccuracies, the rest is a positive feature)
      -protection against weapons of mass destruction is necessary when crossing the affected areas, rather than conducting battles in them (the infantry will still have to dismount, and if the zone is infected there is not much sense from this protection)
      -the BMP-1 armor does not always hold 12.7 (local conflicts showed that armor-piercing 7.62s), not to mention the 20-mm, and taking into account not the best ballistics "thunder" and a collision with an M-113 or a German is still not clear what will end (the baby is certainly good for her time, but only better than nothing) ...
      - "victims" of convenience and crampedness are uncritical only until the BMP comes under fire (they are used as a truck), in a combat situation it is sheer hell (how can a paratrooper get out of it if the previous one is killed, and the armor is not very good ..) (in HS.30 the problem is the same, but in the M-113 and later NATO vehicles the problem was solved, we still have it) ..
      And what is the output - yes, at the time of adoption, the BMP-1 was good (against the background of the BTR-40/152/60), but even after the first experience of using it in the database and identifying shortcomings, they left everything as it is (on the BV, the Arabs did not have the best experience, but apparently attributed to their "skill") ... And they do not scold the car itself, but the generals who left it (apparently at the expense of the price), and moreover, during the development of the BMP-2 and BMP-3, the concepts were not changed. .. More barrels, less armor ...
      1. +13
        19 June 2019 13: 06
        Quote: parma
        -protection against weapons of mass destruction is necessary when crossing the affected areas, rather than conducting battles in them (the infantry will still have to dismount, and if the zone is infected there is not much sense from this protection)

        About the need for dismounting - not a fact. For some reason, the BMP was given an opportunity to fire without leaving the car. And it seems to me that they did it just from the calculation of the battle in those places where dismounting is not recommended.
      2. -3
        19 June 2019 21: 35
        A few questions: 1. After the withdrawal from the INF and in the long term - START, what is the likelihood of a nuclear conflict against the background of the Indo-Pakistani and Iranian-Israeli (American) conflicts? 2.You know the damaging factors of nuclear weapons (alpha, beta, gamma and neutrino)? 3. DO YOU know how to protect yourself? 4. YOU, can you imagine how the skin "slips" and how the affected "shit with blood" before they die? 5. Are current models designed for nuclear conflict?
        Although it may be true that there will be no nuclear conflict, everyone seems to have "grown wiser" and it's time for BMP-1 (and modifications) for metal? Or is it still for conservation?
        1. +2
          20 June 2019 06: 59
          Quote: DrSvarce
          A few questions: 1. After the withdrawal from the INF and in the long term - START, what is the likelihood of a nuclear conflict against the background of the Indo-Pakistani and Iranian-Israeli (American) conflicts? 2.You know the damaging factors of nuclear weapons (alpha, beta, gamma and neutrino)? 3. DO YOU know how to protect yourself? 4. YOU, can you imagine how the skin "slips" and how the affected "shit with blood" before they die? 5. Are current models designed for nuclear conflict?
          Although it may be true that there will be no nuclear conflict, everyone seems to have "grown wiser" and it's time for BMP-1 (and modifications) for metal? Or is it still for conservation?

          1. For our country, I think it’s practically zero, even a country as powerful and ideologically prepared as the USSR in the West decided to be strangled economically and politically, let alone a much weaker state, where a good half of those in power have a residence permit, and often citizenship , countries of a potential adversary .... China, too, has chosen the path of economic expansion - they will have enough space for development in China, and so they pump out resources by all laws and not very money for a penny ...
          2. Yes, I know
          3. In general, yes.
          4. Fortunately, I didn’t see it, but it all depends on the degree of exposure .. Hiroshima is a very large city now, and almost 75 years ago a bomb was dropped on him ....
          5. Yes, all modern NATO production vehicles are equipped with WMD protection, even the newest German Puma, adopted 10 years ago ..
          In general, if your main criterion is protection against weapons of mass destruction, then I propose to sign up as a volunteer in the army, go, say, to Syria, where to "borrow" an old BMP-1 from the local military and try to explain to the militants that the main thing is the notorious protection against a nuclear explosion, and for her it was worth sacrificing everything ...
          Quote: Alexey RA
          About the need for dismounting - not a fact. For some reason, the BMP was given an opportunity to fire without leaving the car. And it seems to me that they did it just from the calculation of the battle in those places where dismounting is not recommended.

          Until the infantry combes through the enemy’s positions, they cannot be called taken ... If you don’t need to take them and have enough nuclear weapons, then why send troops at all and why do you need protection against WMD? Regarding the possibility of landing a fire (IMHO), the thing is not very necessary, due to poor booking, narrow viewing / firing angle and the general inconvenience and cramped airborne compartment, only powder gases are not enough, so there’s nothing to breathe from the exhaust (I know, I had to go a couple of times inside) .... By the way, can you enlighten me, but is protection against weapons of mass destruction preserved when using embrasures?
          1. +1
            20 June 2019 13: 00
            Before asking rhetorical questions, I advise you to read the memoirs of E.I. Bessonov "To Berlin" (you are on the Militer). He was a tank landing platoon / company commander in the 4th Guards. tank brigade, and perfectly describes how motorized rifles are fighting. You can't say it better.
            There is about everything, and about riding on armor, and about dismounting, and about combing. After that, you will understand that the BMP-1 exactly corresponded to this tactic.
            1. +1
              20 June 2019 13: 48
              Quote: wehr
              Before asking rhetorical questions, I advise you to read the memoirs of E.I. Bessonov "To Berlin" (you are on the Militer). He was a tank landing platoon / company commander in the 4th Guards. tank brigade, and perfectly describes how motorized rifles are fighting. You can't say it better.
              There is about everything, and about riding on armor, and about dismounting, and about combing. After that, you will understand that the BMP-1 exactly corresponded to this tactic.

              Dear Dmitry, you decide - the BMP is designed for an atomic war or for the past World War 2?
              Let me explain my point of view once again: the BMP-1 WAS good for the 60s and early 70s, but the experience of using it showed its obsolescence. For BMD, such a concept is perhaps relevant even now, because it fights for every kg for the airborne equipment, and the smaller the machine is in size and weight, the more good you can stuff into the plane, and for the Airborne Forces, nothing is superfluous. Probably not even the best ballistics "Thunder" and not such a big problem, there are still no tanks and troops! But by the end of the 70s and later, the concept of BMP specifically for motorized riflemen became outdated - the experience of the Afghan, BV, etc. showed this .. It is for this that they criticize that the concept of the entire line called BMP (BMP-1,2,3) was outdated, but not replaced ... And moreover, now they are taking the BMP-1 with the replacement of the turret as know-how ...
              1. 0
                20 June 2019 16: 38
                In a nuclear war, tank landing tactics also found wide application. After the defense was broken through with nuclear strikes, the troops rushed into the rear of the enemy. And here they have to do exactly the same job as a tank descent in 1944-1945.
                For nuclear war, they took all the best from previous experience.
                1. 0
                  21 June 2019 12: 55
                  Quote: wehr
                  In a nuclear war, tank landing tactics were also widely used. After the defense was broken through with nuclear strikes, the troops rushed deep into the rear of the enemy.

                  If after mutual strikes there is still someone to rush to the rear (by the way, who said that the enemy will not be in the best condition and will not hit himself?).
                  Quote: wehr
                  . And here they must do exactly the same job as the tank landing forces in 1944-1945.
                  .
                  So the landing should periodically dismount and protection against weapons of mass destruction for infantry fighting vehicles is not the most important parameter, right?
                  Quote: wehr
                  For nuclear war, they took all the best from previous experience.

                  And here you yourself admit that the military wanted to get the perfect car of the last war ...
                  And again it turns out that by the end of the 70s the BMP-1 was outdated, but together with the revision of the BMP-2 concept it simply changed its weapons ... Although by then NATO had:
                  1) there was a BMP MARDER (a German, too, with WMD protection, but a normal landing compartment, by the way, almost the same age as BMP-1)
                  2) was an AMX-10P infantry fighting vehicle (almost like a German, only from France)
                  3) the BMP was already a nonsense (yes with its own flaws, but the armor is not so cardboard, and for a landing, a cruise liner is generally direct on the background of our BMPs, and besides, there’s just 2 Ptura, unified by the way with almost all carriers up to the AN-1, and not like 9K111)
                  PS: you’re saying that our BMP-1 was the first in its class and therefore it’s a great achievement .... Yes, the first, but something revolutionary, but the same marten (German Marder) is only 3 years younger (for For 3 years, neither then nor now could they develop anything from 0, which means they worked on it even before BMP-1), but it’s better thought out (IMHO of course)
  2. -9
    19 June 2019 04: 43
    It is good, of course, that there was no war for which the BMP was created. But did the customers of these machines and the designers look into the eyes of the mothers of the soldiers who died in the battles using this technique? NO ! I have not come across this machine, another military specialty, but an acquaintance, a work colleague said that these machines burned down "at once." I am not criticizing, but experts, explain, was this happening and why?
    1. +2
      19 June 2019 05: 57
      After being hit by cumulative ammunition, any armored vehicles burn out. Modern is no exception. The main drawback of the unit is precisely in its internal dimensions. With the proliferation of hand-held anti-tank weapons, in the mid-70s, the idea of ​​completely abandoning tanks was seriously discussed, as a result of which samples of the type our BMP-3 or the promising Kurganets. The story is repeated with old-style battleships which "retired" new ones with anti-ship missiles as the main caliber.
    2. +25
      19 June 2019 07: 40
      I will disappoint you - on the battlefield everything burns "at once" ..... according to statistics, armored vehicles of the battlefield in battle "live" on average for 15-17 minutes. And so everything is subjective, but basically you were answered in the article - the war that this car was counting on was NOT! And this machine was used in wars where machines were needed that are only now being adopted (local wars with semi-partisan formations) Well, my personal opinion as a person who has dealt with the BMP-1 all his life, they used this machine mainly for amateurs, again without considering features. First of all, the BMP is not a tank, its main protection is stealth and speed, and to climb on it on large-caliber machine guns and grenade launchers is a collective suicide. And finally, what the BMP-1 is actually intended for - "for transporting personnel to the place of the combat mission, increasing its mobility and security and support by fire and for joint actions with tanks in battle. " As you can see everything is simple and clear
    3. 0
      19 June 2019 07: 48
      Quote: Starover_Z
      that these cars burned down "at once"

      This is different. Design features and problems with mechanics training and maintenance. BMP-1 (2) without a crew and a landing party inside "burned out".
  3. +9
    19 June 2019 04: 44
    With which I agree with the author - the armies of the 60-70s were preparing precisely for an atomic war with a wide-ranging military operations. But in reality there were relatively "small" wars, where anti-nuclear protection was really not needed, but more or less equal-sized all-aspect protection was required. First of all, from the infantry with RPGs.
    1. +24
      19 June 2019 05: 11
      And if the USSR was preparing to wage "small" wars, it would not be ready for a big war, and if the USSR was not ready for such a war, it would definitely have begun. And then the losses would be counted in other units
      1. +1
        19 June 2019 23: 03
        Quote: Cowbra
        if the USSR was preparing to wage "small" wars

        if the USSR was preparing to wage "small" wars, it would not be the USSR.
      2. -1
        28 June 2019 20: 29
        "if the USSR was preparing to wage" small "wars, it would not be ready for a big war, but if the USSR was not ready for such a war, it would definitely start. And then the losses would be counted in other units."
        It's just that - standing ovation! good
  4. +6
    19 June 2019 06: 11
    There are errors.
    1) M113 armored personnel carrier was able to overcome water obstacles by swimming (how effective is another matter);
    2) self-propelled guns do not go into frontal attacks with tanks.
    1. +1
      20 June 2019 02: 41
      BTR M113. This is an APC. An armored personnel carrier, albeit a tracked one, but not an infantry fighting vehicle. Another class of military equipment does not have cannon armament and, as a result, is not able to support the infantry with fire. When the BMP 1 appeared, the Americans urgently began to saw the M113 replacement in the form of "Bradley"
  5. +11
    19 June 2019 06: 18
    The German armored personnel carrier had no chance in a head-on battle between German and Soviet cars: a BMP-1 frontal armor protected well enough from 20-mm shells, but HS.30 had nothing to oppose a 73-mm cumulative grenade.

    The wind wears this cumulative grenade as it wants. At the training camp, I fired two shots from behi. So the first shot went to the left of the target, despite the fact that I was aiming at the center, and the second after a small correction went to the right ... So when these potential opponents met, everything would not be so clear. I would not overestimate the behi armor and underestimate the penetration of twenty.
    It's amazing how compact the BMP-1 is. A small little forest and a small fold of the area already makes it hardly noticeable, and, consequently, less vulnerable.

    HS.30 smaller in size! But the landing is three people less.

    And so the technique is sick of its merits.

    PS It was worth focusing on the fact that at one time the "Thunder" cannon could open any tank, and this is a serious argument. The crew of the HS.30 / M113, together with the landing party, when they met a tank, could only watch ...
  6. +7
    19 June 2019 06: 35
    The publication was liked both by the content and the title - "BMP-1: chariot of nuclear war"
  7. -12
    19 June 2019 06: 43
    The author writes about the advantages of the machine but does not write about its shortcomings
    When designing the machine, the emphasis was on mass use on the crew and the landing party. They simply saved money: the landing of the landing is extremely uncomfortable, the internal space is very small, the entrance with ammunition is difficult, the aft hatches open hard. Booking more precisely, its complete absence does not always hold 7,62, explosions, cumulative hit are almost always fatal for the crew and the car, its ally M113 sailed and surpassed BMP 1 in booking and in convenience for the crew and the landing.
    1. +16
      19 June 2019 07: 42
      The silhouette of the BMP-1 was intentionally underestimated, which is why all the inconvenience. But with the threat of using nuclear weapons, the infantry is not up to the inconvenience. Protection from 7,62 - circular from zero distance, if you have references to individual episodes from practice, then let's discuss without a word. Cumulative - almost always fatal for any BMP, even Toga didn’t really help the Israelis. M113 burns very well. M113A3 no longer floats, they recognized this possibility as excessive and refused. As the author pointed out, with the widespread use of tactical nuclear weapons in the European theater of operations, BMP-1 would simply be achieved not only by these shell-shocked M113, but also by the more serious German HS.30.
      So part of your claims that associates exceeded BMP-1 are at least controversial.
    2. +2
      19 June 2019 13: 19
      Sorry, but nuclear war and convenience are not very compatible things. laughing
      1. -2
        19 June 2019 13: 55
        Quote: wehr
        Sorry, but nuclear war and convenience are not very compatible things.


        And reduce the crew + landing to 7 people, there will be comfort (4 infantry fighting vehicles in a platoon, and a little platoon to reduce).
        And for the war of "large battalions" is a very worthy technique.
  8. +3
    19 June 2019 06: 46
    Another undeniable advantage of the BMP: all-terrain. Crawler chassis gives an undeniable advantage over any wheeled vehicle in terms of cross-country ability. About ease of control and a smooth ride, one could add. Another advantage, in comparison with more modern examples of similar technology: the ability to land on the move and the ability to fire troops from the car.
  9. +1
    19 June 2019 07: 03
    So as not to talk about them, but BMP-1 continues to fight in the 21st century.
  10. +11
    19 June 2019 07: 10
    The title of the article was captured by the essence of BMP 1. The machine of its time, its vision of the upcoming war. It turned out to be a little more narrow-minded than we would like, but do not forget that this was the first experience. Now, after more than half a century, it is very easy to criticize the low height of the ceilings and the narrow seats and your car’s worthlessness. And you try to do something from scratch.
    1. +1
      19 June 2019 20: 05
      It should also be noted that the growth of the average soldier was lower than now.
  11. +4
    19 June 2019 08: 10
    I think in isolation from time to time no one criticizes the car, but when the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in 2019 adopts modernized models of equipment from 1966 that were sharpened exclusively for a specific task, forgive my hair stand on end
  12. +2
    19 June 2019 09: 40
    The author is well done - he sees the very root. Therefore, such articles are always pleasant to read.
  13. +2
    19 June 2019 10: 46
    Can immediately emit fast neutrons on top of the armor and fasten forward?
    1. 0
      20 June 2019 09: 53
      Yes, it's better to install EmDrive. So surely notice all over the world.
  14. +2
    19 June 2019 11: 22
    Methodologically, the combat effectiveness analysis of the BMP-1 is built correctly. The same methodology should be applied to the analysis of the combat effectiveness of any military equipment. If the weapons and military equipment is designed for use in a nuclear war, the design must be resistant to the effects of the damaging factors of nuclear weapons and take into account the capabilities of the enemy after their use. If IWT are created for use on terrorists operating in cities with a high population density, then this is a completely different approach (Israeli).
    Which approach underlies depends on the goals of domestic and foreign policy, military doctrine. If these elements of military construction are not defined, then it is impossible to analyze the effectiveness. The Soviet Union was preparing for a nuclear conflict in Europe and created weapons for this war, and technology had to fight in completely different wars on completely different theater of operations.
    The use of nuclear weapons can significantly change the idea of ​​the quality of the created weapons and the capabilities of the warring parties. Therefore, nuclear weapons were banned.
  15. 0
    19 June 2019 11: 44
    BMP-1 is the best confirmation of the fact that generals are always preparing for the past war. After all, the war described in the article is the Second World War, only adjusted for the use of nuclear weapons. But in fact, the USSR and its allies, and then Russia, were drawn into many conflicts of low intensity for which there were no suitable means.
    1. +4
      19 June 2019 11: 49
      20 BMP-000s were produced which were useless in Afghanistan or Chechnya, but there were at least several hundred heavy infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, or trucks with armored cabs. For the USSR, with its financial and technological capabilities, it would not be difficult to manufacture such machines. I think this is a failure of analytic services and planners rather than military command.
      1. -1
        19 June 2019 12: 58
        Only one thing follows from this: the USSR, together with the German Democratic Republic and other allies, had to take over Europe instead of conducting West-81 exercises (or a little later). Instead, Russia-USSR closed its projects, dismissed the ATS, self-dissolved, turned into fodder.
    2. +1
      19 June 2019 13: 15
      BMP-1 is the best confirmation of the fact that generals are always preparing for the past war.

      Not. This is the use of the experience of the past war. With the adoption of the BMP-1 into service, infantry losses decreased by 2-2,5 times. So she completed her task.
      in fact, the USSR and its allies, and then Russia, were drawn into many conflicts of low intensity for which there were no suitable means.

      Means are full. But the tactics of action really did not work out. The generals did not prepare for the fact that they would have to fight with the militants on the territory of their country.
      1. +2
        19 June 2019 14: 16
        Before Chechnya, there was Afghanistan, where BMP-1 was unsuitable for such operations. The Soviet Army had no alternative at that time. The subsequent catastrophe of the First Chechen company showed that for 20 years the systematic situation has not been corrected. They fought in Grozny on the same infantry fighting vehicles, Shilki and ZSU in the back of a shishigi or the Urals (the other day I specially re-watched the video chronicle of those events). It is interesting if Afghanistan or Chechnya are now how different the training of the Russian army will be.
        1. -2
          19 June 2019 17: 01
          Apparently, you did not participate in either the first or the second company .... because there were a lot of others, and I didn’t see BMP 1 at all ... although maybe they were there
          1. +2
            19 June 2019 19: 05


            BMP 1 there were plenty
            1. +3
              19 June 2019 21: 13
              The top photo is very eloquent, all the soldiers on the armor ...
        2. 0
          19 June 2019 22: 08
          I’m not a great specialist in the tactics of using armored vehicles, but in my opinion, any of the most secure vehicles on a march in mountainous and wooded areas is globally vulnerable, so soldiers rode on their armor. You cannot set up side guards that go with the main column at the same pace. You cannot plant an observer at each high-rise, which does not allow local partisans to get to the road, etc. etc. And the main losses in Afghanistan were precisely during the attack on the columns on the march. And everything burned there, and BMP and armored personnel carriers and tanks, regardless of the thickness of the armor and security. If taken by surprise ...
          In Chechnya, armored vehicles were also just lost on the roads and because of the fools in the leadership who sent infantry fighting vehicles and tanks to storm the cities without normal infantry support and without preliminary stripping. When used correctly, the BMP-1 and T-62, which at the time of the Chechen were both morally and physically obsolete, gave very good results in use. As for me, in a low-intensity conflict, the same infantry fighting vehicle should be considered as an ordinary infantry cannon of the times of WWII, unless self-propelled and slightly covered by armor. Those. exclusively fire support without direct direct fire.
        3. -2
          20 June 2019 10: 54
          Quote: Bodypuncher
          In Grozny, they fought on the same infantry fighting vehicles, Shilki and ZSU in the back of a shishigi or the Urals

          I’ll tell you more - even in 08.08.08 they fought on the same BMP-1 and T-62 as in Afghanistan.

          Although no: in Afghanistan, T-62s were more modern, with "Brezhnev's eyebrows", and at 08.08.08 - "bald".
          Quote: Bodypuncher
          It is interesting if Afghanistan or Chechnya are now how different the training of the Russian army will be.

          Duc ... Syria has already happened.
        4. -1
          20 June 2019 14: 54
          Quote: Bodypuncher
          Before Chechnya, there was Afghanistan, where BMP-1 was unsuitable for such operations. The Soviet Army had no alternative at that time. The subsequent catastrophe of the First Chechen company showed that for 20 years the systematic situation has not been corrected.

          Are you serious now? But nothing, that in 1994, on the eve of the hostilities in Chechnya, was a wild shortage in the troops? When the motorized rifle squad consisted of 3 (mechanic driver, gunner operator and squad leader), or even 2 soldiers? A little later they began to sculpt consolidated units, driving people from different parts having different military academies. And they heard about the coordination of combat units, no?
    3. 0
      19 June 2019 13: 16
      Quote: Bodypuncher
      BMP-1 is the best confirmation of the fact that generals are always preparing for the past war. After all, the war described in the article is the Second World War, only adjusted for the use of nuclear weapons. But in fact, the USSR and its allies, and then Russia, were drawn into many conflicts of low intensity for which there were no suitable means.

      The funny thing is that our opponents were in exactly the same position. The armed forces of the NATO countries during the Cold War were mostly tailored to the scenario of repulsing the attack of large tank and mechanized enemy forces (Fulda Gap, yes) using tactical nuclear weapons from both sides (up to nuclear engineering ammunition). Even civilian objects in Western Europe were built with an eye on Russian tanks: the Germans had mine pits and holes for installing rows of stationary gouges in the design of roads and bridges.
    4. -2
      19 June 2019 23: 14
      Quote: Bodypuncher
      BMP-1 is the best confirmation of the fact that generals are always preparing for the past war.

      BMP-1 generals did not develop, and designers are preparing for a modern war. In the USSR there was a network of research organizations that formulated general tactical and technical requirements., Based on the data of science, intelligence and mathematical modeling.
      The USSR had only one adversary and therefore had a clear idea of ​​the goals and nature of the war.
      In war, generals are nominated, on whom victory depends.
    5. -1
      20 June 2019 19: 30
      If the USSR was not ready for a war in Europe, there would have been a war in Europe, but He was ready. Therefore, this war did not happen. And the "partners" think and plan. They have great think tanks and read smart books on strategy carefully.
  16. +2
    19 June 2019 19: 02
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    Apparently, you did not participate in either the first or the second company .... because there were a lot of others, and I didn’t see BMP 1 at all ... although maybe they were there




  17. +1
    19 June 2019 19: 20
    The more time passes since the tragic events, the weaker the muscle memory, which unfortunately lives like a goldfish "for exactly 3 minutes! And again in a circle biorobots jump on a rake negative

    Look at the number of pluses topic about the survival of the crew and landing https://topwar.ru/21708-desant-na-brone-pochemu-nikto-ne-doveryaet-otechestvennym-btr.html
    1. +1
      19 June 2019 21: 33
      Since 2012, the article has not lost its relevance. All disputes essentially boil down to the fact that the ability to swim / parachute or good defense, a large-scale war, or the so-called, is more important. low intensity conflicts. IMHO, the answer lies on the surface - weapons should have means for both types of military conflicts, and which brain centers should determine which ones are more important and how much they should be purchased.
  18. -3
    19 June 2019 21: 36
    Quote: parma
    Quote: Potter
    The author justifies himself too much. But the article is a plus. Imagine 1966 - the year the BMP-1 was adopted for service. Even 20 years ago, motorized rifles to the battlefield were delivered at Studebaker. A few years ago, the BTR-40 and BTR-152 were in production with open (mostly) cases and armor that protected them from rifle bullets. And THIS appears. In terms of aggregate combat qualities, it surpasses all infantry transporters available at that time. The fire support weapon is now at the squad level, rather than the battalion, as before. And now in the battalion there are not 4, but 40 pieces. The firepower of the division increases many times. And of course, the ability to act in conditions of the use of nuclear weapons.

    The author pulls an owl on the globe, and does not make excuses. He deliberately hyper-amplifies virtues and closes his eyes to shortcomings ....
    So:
    - not only BMP-1, but also M-113 floats (although, apart from inaccuracies, the rest is a positive feature)
    -protection against weapons of mass destruction is necessary when crossing the affected areas, rather than conducting battles in them (the infantry will still have to dismount, and if the zone is infected there is not much sense from this protection)
    -the BMP-1 armor does not always hold 12.7 (local conflicts showed that armor-piercing 7.62s), not to mention the 20-mm, and taking into account not the best ballistics "thunder" and a collision with an M-113 or a German is still not clear what will end (the baby is certainly good for her time, but only better than nothing) ...
    - "victims" of convenience and crampedness are uncritical only until the BMP comes under fire (they are used as a truck), in a combat situation it is sheer hell (how can a paratrooper get out of it if the previous one is killed, and the armor is not very good ..) (in HS.30 the problem is the same, but in the M-113 and later NATO vehicles the problem was solved, we still have it) ..
    And what is the output - yes, at the time of adoption, the BMP-1 was good (against the background of the BTR-40/152/60), but even after the first experience of using it in the database and identifying shortcomings, they left everything as it is (on the BV, the Arabs did not have the best experience, but apparently attributed to their "skill") ... And they do not scold the car itself, but the generals who left it (apparently at the expense of the price), and moreover, during the development of the BMP-2 and BMP-3, the concepts were not changed. .. More barrels, less armor ...

    A few questions: 1. After the withdrawal from the INF and in the long term - START, what is the likelihood of a nuclear conflict against the background of the Indo-Pakistani and Iranian-Israeli (American) conflicts? 2.You know the damaging factors of nuclear weapons (alpha, beta, gamma and neutrino)? 3. DO YOU know how to protect yourself? 4. YOU, can you imagine how the skin "slips" and how the affected "shit with blood" before they die? 5. Are current models designed for nuclear conflict?
    Although it may be true that there will be no nuclear conflict, everyone seems to have "grown wiser" and it's time for BMP-1 (and modifications) for metal? Or is it still for conservation?
    1. -1
      20 June 2019 08: 51
      After withdrawing from the INF Treaty and in the future - strategic offensive arms, what is the likelihood of a nuclear conflict against the backdrop of Indo-Pakistani and Iranian-Israeli (American) conflicts?

      Thank God, so far, is not great, since the benefits will be blocked by the consequences. Nowadays, only a suicide can use nuclear weapons.
      YOU, you know the damaging factors of nuclear weapons (alpha, beta, gamma and neutrinos)

      Yes. First of all, gamma, the rest can be completely neglected.
      Do you know how to protect?

      Yes. The best way is the distance !!!
      YOU, can you imagine how the skin "slips" and how the affected "shit with blood" before they die?

      No and I do not want.
      Are modern models designed for nuclear conflict?

      Protection against nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction is not some kind of super-nano-technology.
      Although it may be true that there will be no nuclear conflict, everyone seems to have "grown wiser" and it's time for BMP-1 (and modifications) for metal? Or is it still for conservation?

      Perhaps in the 60s there wasn’t so much nuclear weapons, and at the top they were going to fight after mutual attacks, but now this seems unlikely. The most likely now seems that after mutual blows to all the Arctic fox, and there is nobody and nowhere to drive on Beh ...
    2. -3
      20 June 2019 12: 03
      "Nuclear conflict" is when one side almost instantly destroys the infrastructure of the other, forcing it to surrender with high-precision strikes and low-yield nuclear warheads. Americans no longer need NATO for such a war. The other side can avoid such a development of the situation only by demonstrating in practice its readiness to destroy the first side by delivering retaliatory super-powerful nuclear strikes. To do this, in response to the creation of the infrastructure of the "nuclear conflict" in Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine, an underground explosion must be carried out first, and if it does not help, an atmospheric explosion. Well, or start destroying this infrastructure in the above US satellite countries. Those. we must conduct a responsible policy.
      Tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and airplanes can no longer get off. These are instruments of "small wars" and "anti-terrorist" operations.
  19. +4
    19 June 2019 21: 57
    Of all the Soviet post-war armored vehicles, perhaps not a single sample was awarded such a number of negative reviews as the BMP-1.

    Of course, I'm sorry, but no connection between the improved anti-nuclear protection of the BPM-1 and the many negative reviews about the same BMP-1 can be found in the article. What did the author want to say? That the BMP-1 is not a combat vehicle, I am just a means to overcome the nuclear wasteland and nothing more? Forgive me, but then probably this car would not be called BMP - "Infantry Fighting Vehicle". Probably it would be some kind of "anti-radiation transporter" or something like that ..

    The BMP-1 is an excellent vehicle that ousted light tanks with dignity. All claims to the BMP-1 refer to the low survivability of the vehicle and the high probability of death of both the crew and the landing force after the very first damage to the armor. The reason is also on the surface, first of all - the poor layout of the car. An automatic loader with vertically arranged charges of "Thunder" and a vertical tank in the troop compartment .. Both the first and second are amazed and guaranteed to explode when armor is pierced from any angle. It is enough to transfer the tanks and ammunition to the bottom of the vehicle and the survivability of both vehicles and troops will improve three to four times.

    Well, and separately about the landing on the armor .. Have you tried to sit for several hours in a cramped, stuffy, tightly closed box on the march? Especially in the BMP-1,2 with their characteristic buildup in motion? There is no doubt that after an hour the contents of the landing stomachs can be directly studied on all surrounding surfaces of the landing compartment. See real videos from Syria for example. Similarly, everyone is sitting on top of the marches, but you will not see a single madman on the roof at the time when the BMP goes on the attack. Everything is always inside .. Although the compartment doors do not always close.
    1. -2
      20 June 2019 01: 55
      Read the article again if you do not understand what the author wanted to say.
  20. +1
    20 June 2019 06: 05
    Quote: Zahar345
    The more time passes since the tragic events, the weaker the muscle memory, which unfortunately lives like a goldfish "for exactly 3 minutes! And again in a circle biorobots jump on a rake negative

    Look at the number of pluses topic about the survival of the crew and landing https://topwar.ru/21708-desant-na-brone-pochemu-nikto-ne-doveryaet-otechestvennym-btr.html

    Biorobots is a primitive budget model, hence the small amount of memory, the ultimate goal of biorobots is self-destruction.
  21. +1
    20 June 2019 06: 38




    The experience of Afghanistan and Chechnya is forgotten again biorobots cheer themselves up with a good car, the main maneuver, the commanders are to blame!
    1. 0
      20 June 2019 12: 06
      Quote: Vasily199
      The experience of Afghanistan and Chechnya is forgotten

      Do you want to have combat-ready aircraft, fight constantly.
    2. -2
      20 June 2019 14: 03
      And why did you upload these photos here?
  22. -1
    20 June 2019 07: 12
    Quote: Bodypuncher
    Since 2012, the article has not lost its relevance. All disputes essentially boil down to the fact that the ability to swim / parachute or good defense, a large-scale war, or the so-called, is more important. low intensity conflicts. IMHO, the answer lies on the surface - weapons should have means for both types of military conflicts, and which brain centers should determine which ones are more important and how much they should be purchased.

    Thinking centers choose the option "women are still giving birth" if they don't mind, those for whom the mass grave of the infantry was made judging by "And finally, what is the BMP-1 intended for?"
    1. -2
      20 June 2019 09: 03
      Thinking centers choose the option "women are still giving birth" if they don't mind, those for whom the mass grave of the infantry was made judging by "And finally, what is the BMP-1 intended for?"

      You exaggerate a lot ... There is a saying:
      Generals always prepare for last war

      During the creation of behi, warriors prepared for a jerk to the lamb ... That is, beha is a total war machine, when from both sides tanks, planes, missiles, etc., it was not created in order to drive terrorists through the mountains.
      1. -2
        20 June 2019 14: 37
        You are probably confusing combined arms combat with police operations. No?
        And as far as I remember (and I remember it well), no one ever prepared for a jerk to the lamb. High mobility was needed only in order to get close to the enemy as quickly as possible, thereby preventing the use of nuclear weapons.
        1. -1
          20 June 2019 16: 33
          You are probably confusing combined arms combat with police operations. No?

          Probably BMP-1 never participated in a real war for which it was created. So your statements "women are still giving birth" are sucked out of the finger. All Arabs do not count, they have everything on fire, and Abrams and leopards, no worse than T-72.
          And as far as I remember (and I remember it well), no one ever prepared for a jerk to the lamb.
          Yeah, and 50 T-000/54 is in order to develop virgin lands.
          High mobility was needed only in order to get close to the enemy as quickly as possible, thereby preventing the use of nuclear weapons.
          Imagine how the landing on the beh is competing with a ballistic missile)))
          1. -2
            20 June 2019 17: 06
            You are, there is less WOT chopped, and then you have a level of knowledge of military affairs at the level of a 10-year-old child.
            1. At the time the BMP was launched, the country was already producing the world's first main tank.
            2. Regarding "women still narodayut" - you can stick it anywhere, but not to the Soviet armed forces. A stupid slogan written by a man who has never been responsible for people in his life.
            3. Imagine there are tactical nuclear weapons. Did not hear about such? That's what they are about.
            1. -1
              20 June 2019 17: 14
              At the time the BMP was launched, the country was already producing the world's first main tank.
              Well, what did you mean by that? What is the connection? What is the meaning of what was said?
              As for "women still narodayut" - you can stick this anywhere, but not to the Soviet armed forces. A stupid slogan written by a man who has never been responsible for people in his life.

              I have beguiled you with Basil.
              Imagine there are tactical nuclear weapons. Did not hear about such? That's what they are about.
              This is a fashionable term. Were these charges in the 60s question.
              1. -2
                21 June 2019 10: 32
                1. What is the connection? This is to your remark: "50 T-000/54 is to master the virgin soil."
                The units on the BMP-1/2, as a rule, were armed with T64 or T72 tanks. Inconsistency.
                2. The active adoption of the first tactical nuclear weapons (tactical missiles, artillery nuclear ammunition) was back in the second half of the 50s .... So there wasn’t just a term. There was a direct threat of its use ...
                1. -1
                  21 June 2019 11: 14
                  What's the connection? This is to your remark: "50 T-000/54 is to master the virgin soil."
                  The units on the BMP-1/2, as a rule, were armed with T64 or T72 tanks. Inconsistency.
                  I cited this as a special case of the general militarization of the USSR, in the context that if something happened, the enemy would definitely be persecuted to the rampage.
                  Active adoption of the first samples of tactical nuclear weapons (tactical missiles, artillery nuclear ammunition) was back in the second half of the 50s .... So there was not only a term. There was a direct threat of its use ...
                  It works both ways. I just don’t know how the potential adversary was there, but I know perfectly about shells for ISU-152 and higher. So a quick rapprochement would hinder not only the enemy. And high mobility in itself is a useful thing in many cases.
                  The worst opponent in a fight is a runner athlete. If you are stronger - you will not catch up with him, if he is stronger - you will not run away from him ...
                  1. -2
                    24 June 2019 08: 52
                    Quote: Flamberg
                    I cited this as a special case of the general militarization of the USSR, in the context that if something happened, the enemy would definitely be persecuted to the rampage.

                    Yes, there was no particular "militarization". These are fairy tales born during the perestroika period and untwisted already today. The "militarization of the USSR" was no higher than the "militarization" of the United States. We had no plans to attack the United States, the United States had them.

                    Quote: Flamberg

                    I just don’t know how the potential adversary was there ...

                    You do not know this, just as you do not know about the combat use of motorized rifle units of the Soviet Army. Namely, in this context, it is necessary to consider BMP 1/2/3. But judging by judging by the minuses to my comments, here the majority does not have
                    this is not the slightest clue. :-)
                    Speaking about the tactical nuclear weapons of the time for the barrel artillery, they were armed with NATO (I think that they still have one form or another), for example, the following products:
                    203mm ammunition W33 (nuclear shell), from 1957 to 1992
                    155mm ammunition W48 (nuclear shell), from 1963 to 1992
                    The latter approaches the most massive NATO artillery system M109 (the latest modifications are known as Paladin).

                    And this is all in add-on to tactical missile systems, we are putting ourselves into service at different periods of time.
                    MGR-1 Honest John - first deliveries to the US Army - 1953
                    MGR-3 Little John - adopted in 1961
                    MGM-29 Sergeant - adopted in 1962
                    MGM-52 Lance - adopted in 1972

                    Quote: Flamberg

                    So a quick rapprochement would hinder not only the enemy.

                    But we did not have a goal to use tactical nuclear weapons, there were no plans to fight overseas. In any case, what I expressed in this thread is not sucked out of my finger.
                    1. 0
                      24 June 2019 09: 08
                      Well, the fact that there were no plans is that you got excited. Any plans were and are now, for all occasions, I do not think that Georgians were driven to improvisation on 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX. The only thing that the first may not want to start.
                      I have VUS 021000 - the commander of a motorized rifle platoon on an armored personnel carrier, in stock))) for a jacket)))
                      combat use of motorized rifle units of the Soviet Army
                      So there was no use of BMP in real wars. Afghan and Chechen do not count, there are their own characteristics, etc. Arabs also do not count.
                      But we did not have a goal to use tactical nuclear weapons, there were no plans to fight overseas. In any case, what I expressed in this thread is not sucked out of my finger.

                      Are you sure that you can unequivocally say, saying "here," what plans and goals were the General Staff? If there was no goal of using tactical nuclear weapons, then why were they produced?
                      1. 0
                        27 June 2019 10: 57
                        I would not put Afghanistan and the fighting in Chechnya on a par. Already talked about the monstrous lack of units, when in the motorized rifle units, there were 2-3 units of personnel. I will say more, even this personnel was sometimes not trained. The recruiting staff sometimes immediately sent part, bypassing the training units. Due to the lack of personnel, it came to the point that most of the time, the personnel spent time in costumes and guards. There was simply no time for combat training. The result is the improper combat use of motorized rifle units in general and infantry fighting vehicles in particular. This is the main reason for the destruction of so many infantry fighting vehicles (tanks were also burned a lot) in the first phase of the Chechen company.

                        And in Afghanistan everything was more or less even. In support of the fact that the units were used in accordance with the BTS, I quote a couple of quotes from Artillery and Counterinsurgency: Soviet Experience in Afghanistan, Lester Grau, Center for the Study of Foreign Military Experience, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

                        The author writes:
                        Planning for artillery support for large-scale operations in Afghanistan was practically no different from the usual planning adopted in the Soviet army.

                        Further, the author gives an example.
                        For the fire support of the advancing troops in the Soviet army, a large amount of artillery fire was used. Once, the Soviet airborne battalion decided to go for tanks and armored personnel carriers through a narrow 14-kilometer green zone to clear it of Mujahideen. Tanks and armored personnel carriers were supposed to protect dismounted paratroopers. However, the Mujahideen had RPG-7 anti-tank grenade launchers, which were dangerous for armored vehicles. The artillery division was assigned to the paratrooper battalion. To adjust the artillery fire, an artillery officer from each battery was advanced with each company. As the ground forces advanced, the artillery successively carried the fire into the depths. Artillery fire and armored vehicles protected the Soviet military and vehicles and prevented the Mujahideen from conducting targeted fire. During the three-day offensive, the defending Mujahideen fired over 40 grenades from RPGs on armored vehicles, but did not achieve a single serious hit.

                        If you were trained at the military department as a platoon commander, remember the battle order of the motorized rifle unit. I hope that you were not only given 3 parts there?

                        PS And my confidence in what I am saying can be attributed to the fact that my buttonholes didn’t fit together :), and I don’t know the question under discussion from books or other people's stories ...
                      2. 0
                        27 June 2019 11: 12
                        You do not understand me. I meant that there was no real war in Chechnya and Afghanistan, when tanks, artillery, aircraft were on both sides, and there was a front line. Conventionally, for example, we can cite the Arab-Israeli wars, such as the six-day war or the Doomsday War. After all, they created BMP precisely for such wars, and not in order to drive fighters in the mountains.
                      3. 0
                        27 June 2019 15: 21
                        The question is not whether there were aircraft and tanks there or not. In Afghanistan, it was precisely the tactics of combined arms combat that were used (I even referred to the research of our overseas "friends"), including a quote to which an American soldier assesses the tactics of conducting combined arms combat (it implies the use of artillery means). Of course, small adjustments were made, in reality, real combat losses were low. First of all, thanks to the complex use. Any career officer who served in the "infantry" at that time will say that at least 70-80% of personnel losses were non-combat losses.

                        In Chechnya, the losses were high, because the units were not combat ready, their coordination was extremely low. And BMP security - in that situation, it was not the second, not the third, or even the tenth ...

                        Most importantly, what is always overlooked in discussions of BMPs is that this type of equipment is imprisoned for a motorized rifle unit of the SA. And the combat use of the post-forebear units ALWAYS provided for the use of artillery, tanks, and the BMP itself itself - in COMPLEX, and not separately. In this context, there is more than enough armor there.

                        PS A BMP, especially deuce, in the infantry loved ... really - a workhorse.
    2. -2
      20 June 2019 14: 42
      Quote: Vasily199

      Thinking centers choose the option "women are still giving birth" if they don't mind, those for whom the mass grave of the infantry was made judging by "And finally, what is the BMP-1 intended for?"

      Stupid statement ... well, I understand that this is rude. But an intelligent person, will not repeat any nonsense, he will take it and at least deal with the question.
  23. +1
    20 June 2019 12: 27
    Quote: infantryman2020
    There are errors.
    1) M113 armored personnel carrier was able to overcome water obstacles by swimming (how effective is another matter);
    2) self-propelled guns do not go into frontal attacks with tanks.

  24. +1
    20 June 2019 12: 40
    Quote: alstr
    It should also be noted that the growth of the average soldier was lower than now.


    The Americans were marching even then! lol
  25. +1
    20 June 2019 12: 42
    Quote: iouris
    Quote: Vasily199
    The experience of Afghanistan and Chechnya is forgotten

    Do you want to have combat-ready aircraft, fight constantly.

    What about experience - conclusions, necessary changes, or is it something fundamentally unattainable for us? sad
  26. +1
    20 June 2019 13: 53
    Quote: shinobi
    After being hit by cumulative ammunition, any armored vehicles burn out. Modern is no exception. The main drawback of the unit is precisely in its internal dimensions. With the proliferation of hand-held anti-tank weapons, in the mid-70s, the idea of ​​completely abandoning tanks was seriously discussed, as a result of which samples of the type our BMP-3 or the promising Kurganets. The story is repeated with old-style battleships which "retired" new ones with anti-ship missiles as the main caliber.

  27. -1
    20 June 2019 14: 28
    Why all this? Everything is much simpler. Soviet infantry fighting vehicles, and this applies to the penny, and deuces, and triples - are created taking into account the tactics of conducting combined arms combat SA. And this tactic implied the use of an artillery attack. That the composition of the motorized rifle regiment, that of the tank, was an artillery division (this is about 18 barrels of 122 mm), and the line battalion had an artillery battery armed with mortars (82 mm). In total, on the regiment, as if another division is being recruited.
    During the offensive, these artillery weapons launched an artillery attack, creating a fire shaft ... Beyond the fire shaft, tanks moved, followed by infantry fighting vehicles. Both tanks and infantry fighting vehicles suppressed enemy weapons identified during the offensive.

    Simply put, one of the main tasks of armoring a BMP is to protect personnel from fragments of their own 122 mm ammunition.
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. 0
    20 June 2019 16: 33
    Author, come I will KISS YOU good Article 5+
  30. -1
    20 June 2019 17: 39
    20 thousand combat vehicles, which were torn apart by a heavy machine gun, but which were valuable in the global nuclear war ...
    recourse
    Those who fought in it (on armor) in Afghanistan and Chechnya, of course, were very comforted by the radiation tightness ...
    1. -1
      23 June 2019 21: 57
      Properly designed car. Sharpened by the biggest nuisance - a full-blown nuclear war. When the expense of military losses goes to millions. And the civilian population - in the hundreds of millions. That some kind of miserable Afghanistan or Chechnya - there were losses less than the population dies in peacetime traffic accidents. Do not forget about the massive use of gases such as VX and bacteriological weapons. Loss of personnel will quickly lead to space in the troop compartment. The THUND gun is what you need to finish off enemy armored vehicles with a half-dead crew. And the enemy becomes half dead under armor after covering the offensive zone with tactical nuclear weapons. Buoyancy is very useful for overcoming flooded vast spaces as a result of undermining dams on a European theater. Aviation after stripping airbases with missiles with special warheads and heavy smoke of the ionized troposphere becomes less dangerous for armored vehicles. As I see it in such conditions, the main danger for the BMP is not heavy machine guns and assault rifles, but the enemy’s weapons of mass destruction and lack of fuel ...

      Well done Afatar, finally an intelligent article.)
  31. -2
    21 June 2019 20: 02
    Quote: Zaurbek
    Can immediately emit fast neutrons on top of the armor and fasten forward?

    I don’t know about fast neutrons, but the laser was based on them.
  32. -2
    22 June 2019 16: 37
    Quote: Saxon
    Why all this? Everything is much simpler. Soviet infantry fighting vehicles, and this applies to the penny, and deuces, and triples - are created taking into account the tactics of conducting combined arms combat SA. And this tactic implied the use of an artillery attack. That the composition of the motorized rifle regiment, that of the tank, was an artillery division (this is about 18 barrels of 122 mm), and the line battalion had an artillery battery armed with mortars (82 mm). In total, on the regiment, as if another division is being recruited.
    During the offensive, these artillery weapons launched an artillery attack, creating a fire shaft ... Beyond the fire shaft, tanks moved, followed by infantry fighting vehicles. Both tanks and infantry fighting vehicles suppressed enemy weapons identified during the offensive.

    Simply put, one of the main tasks of armoring a BMP is to protect personnel from fragments of their own 122 mm ammunition.

    Everything is correct except for the last paragraph. The objective of the BMP armor is to protect the landing force before dismounting and the crew after dismounting. If very briefly. drinks
  33. -2
    24 June 2019 14: 38
    BMP-1 is an excellent car for its time, i.e. late 70s early 80s, before "Afgan". Why did the BMP-1 show itself badly in "Afghanistan" and in Chechnya? And all because it was developed for war on flat terrain and not in the mountains. Therefore, it is floating. By the way, the BMP-2 in "Afghan" demonstrated itself very well. At the expense of booking - the Israelis have been making their heavy infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers for many years, but they do not fight in the mountains, and burn from a cumulative shot.
    1. 0
      25 June 2019 18: 22
      Degrade with us, degrade like us, degrade deeper than us!
  34. -2
    25 June 2019 20: 47
    Credit to the author. There are many "experts" who criticize everything they do not understand. And then the man approached the question like a real scientist.
  35. -2
    28 June 2019 20: 18
    The youth writer is simple. He explained to me, for example (not to a professional), very harmoniously and easily, what, how.
  36. -1
    18 August 2019 00: 16
    For those who criticize the volume of the airborne compartment of an infantry fighting vehicle, I recommend taking a shovel and digging up a caponier for an infantry fighting vehicle and for Bradley, for example, so that one tower sticks out.
    In the conditions of a nuclear battle, it is necessary not only to quickly slip through the infection zone, but also to maintain combat readiness with a reciprocal nuke, we did not have a monopoly, both sides would beat. BU SV of the USSR was written clearly and clearly, everything is there.
    The small area of ​​the lateral projection increases resistance to the damaging factors of a nuclear explosion, to the shock wave in the first place. See the chronicle of nuclear tests, everything is clear there, why the BMP is such. I personally would rather be cramped alive than comfortably dead.
    For those who criticize the Thunder cannon, I recommend practicing the shooting skills of the ATGM Baby.
  37. 0
    25 February 2021 08: 27
    "The armored personnel carriers of a potential enemy, such as the American M113 and the German HS.30, did not have anti-nuclear protection and could not swim." - this is not true, the M-113 has been and is still swimming to this day, although not very well.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"