Military Review

"Good War" by Vladimir Putin

244
“These aliens have damned far away from their home planet, but even then we Americans have always preferred to fight away from their own country ...”
Heinlein "There will be a spacesuit, there will be travel"



Another win


The victory in Syria, and you can already speak about this outcome of events, is a kind of non-standard victory in the newest Russian storiesThat is why the attitude towards her, to put it mildly, is peculiar. Too bloody and hard history fell out of Russia in the 20 century. The First World War, which instead of victory brought the collapse of the empire and civil war ... Collectivization and industrialization were bought at the price of the greatest sacrifices. World War II turned into a real catastrophe for Russia.



As a result (as a result): a closed society with a tough political regime and extremely low standard of living up to the 70 of the 20 of the century (even during Khrushchev there were problems with bread!). For very different reasons, the superpower of the USSR could not provide its citizens with either freedom of movement (even within the Soviet bloc!), Or often essential goods. A vivid example of "helping the allies" and "successful geopolitics" is "helping Egypt" and "exile from Egypt."

Then there was the Afghan war, which demanded gigantic spending, but which, let's say, “did not end with victory”. In fact, ordinary citizens have the wrong idea that state power and an active foreign policy are expensive, bloody, risky, and unpromising.

There is little here: it is known that one of the reasons for Russia's entry into the PRC was “the issue of the straits”, so it is still absolutely not obvious that, having placed millions of its soldiers on the battlefields and not allowing the Central Powers to win, Russia would "Straits" received. Some historians are plagued by strong doubts ... This is the very Churchill with his heroic landing ... in the Dardanelles. Speak, "crush Turkey"? But why start its "smash" in the most powerful and fortified place? There were no other options? But at the very beginning of the war to seize the straits ... Then many more thought that the war would be short. "Secret guarantees of Russia"? Oh well.

It is impossible not to recall the epic struggle “for the freedom of the Slavs”, which devoured a lot of lives, money, political resources and, in general, did not bring Russia any good results. And the Berlin Congress can be remembered.

Each time one gets the impression that Russia is fighting head to head with the adversary, laying down the battlefield with the corpses of its soldiers, but strangely enough, the fruits of victories are completely different. And even in 1945, after inhuman sacrifices and phenomenal victories, no one wanted to “give” Eastern Europe to Stalin. About the fact that these most Eastern Europeans "deserved freedom": they just did not deserve it. They did practically nothing to defend this freedom from Hitler, and they collaborated very actively with this very Hitler.

And yes, freedom is necessary deserve!

In the end, all this provides tremendous material for historians, novelists, filmmakers and the creators of the military-patriotic song. The tragedy (namely, a significant part of the Russian history of the first half of the 20 of the 20th century can be described as such) is an excellent material for a variety of creative work, but it’s not quite comfortable to live in such an “interesting era."

And this very Syrian war stands out sharply from a number of previous events and is not very similar to them. Without serious involvement of large ground forces and, most importantly, without serious losses in a reasonable amount of time, certain political results were achieved. So to speak, without hysteria and without overwhelming the enemy with corpses. If anything, then before this there were two Chechen campaigns (on its territory!), The first of which Russia in fact lost. The war in South Ossetia is also difficult to call the brilliant victory of the modern high-tech army (there was still the domination of the Georgian aviation in the first phase of the battles and the epic naval battle with the Georgian fleet).

But in Syria everything was a little different ... Here we are trying to rub in some "friends" - how much Russia spent on that money war. Billions! And they let a "male tear" on this occasion, because how could we live well with this money! These people clearly do not know: usually for participation in the war, Russia had to pay much more than just money. For participation in the wars of Russia often had to pay with human lives (not counting them), and the destruction of their cities, and revolutions ... Yes, there was a lot of things.

It is no coincidence that by the centenary of the beginning of the PRC, the question was actively debated: could Russia have avoided participation in it? Because this “participation” is too sideways for us. There is a problem in what (for all “non-opposition to evil by violence”): the preservation of the largest territory in the world and the protection of their interests, even in the near abroad, automatically assume the presence of a strong state and an active foreign policy.

There is no other way, on this happy planet, nobody will just be left alone. In due time everyone, anyone (in the USSR!), Actively criticized the war in Afghanistan. Say, why is it necessary? In addition to quite obvious results directly on Afghan territory, we did get a war already in our own mountains. By the way, the "international public opinion" paradoxically again it was not on our side. Although the “gap” between these two wars is literally 5 years old.

And after all, we left Afghanistan, as we were asked! However, this did not save us from the war in Chechnya and from the “international disapproval”. And, by the way, the army in Chechnya fought a completely different one (why?). And senseless losses were much higher. And then the parents of the captured went on “independent Ichkeria” and tried to buy them out. Glorious was a little time ... That is, the technology of "rejection of imperial ambitions" clearly does not work. One war follows another. The one who didn’t like the “aggressive war in Afghanistan” got a “progressive war in Chechnya”.

No "wide open took"


But the war in the Syrian theater was of a completely different nature: Russia basically “pressed on technology” while simultaneously promoting this technique to international markets and promoting its interests in the region at the cost of money, albeit not human lives, scattered to the right and left. Another war. Periodically, Putin "withdraws his troops" (it has been several times already), but the war continues. And he does not say “the whole truth”. And, actually, to whom he should say "the whole truth"? Our dear Western "partners"? And let's "bash on bash." You are “the whole truth” to us, we are to you ...

Of course, in Syria, V.V. Putin is playing a rather complicated game. Those. no nobility, no "open wide", no "open cards". Fighting with someone and for something. A good sign is that the Western partners are "mad with rage." And again you will say that it is expensive for money? Well, two Chechens cost much more. And most importantly - in human sacrifices, not in money. And in general, from the experience of our Anglo-Saxon partners, it is better to fight "in Granada" than "near Stalingrad."

Leaving it means a hut (not touched by bombs and shells) and go to that very Granada, fight for the land for a simple Granada guy ... otherwise there will be some Sevilians who will come to fight your the earth. Or they will send an armed “opposition” to fight for the promotion of democracy in “your hut”. I would not want to.

And really, why, I ask, I.V. Stalin fought in Spain? For what, sorry, damn? Further events showed that it would be possible to fight in Spain for the 20 years without straining and not worrying about expenses. And in general, not worrying about anything.
Author:
Photos used:
tass.ru
Articles from this series:
Why do we fight so much?
244 comments
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  1. TAMBU
    TAMBU 19 June 2019 04: 50
    +37
    What I want to say about what I read ... primitive ...

    The beginning of the article set the tone for all that nonsense that went on ... keep it up!

    PS The war in Syria is a dangerous, forced adventure, which at any moment can end in disaster ... (not only IMHO)
    1. Cowbra
      Cowbra 19 June 2019 05: 23
      +9
      Arguments - zero
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 19 June 2019 06: 02
        +21
        After seriously helping the Americans in Afghanistan (the antiterrorist coalition), they supported the “Arab revolutions” and Washington’s actions to overthrow the “socialist” secular regimes, surrender Gaddafi, geopolitical defeat in Ukraine, under the conditions of zugzwang, started a war in Syria.
        The war, of course, is fair from the point of view of mass perception.
        But, according to many, the next Kapkah, by the way, the war, which has not ended.
        Very similar to the beginning of the PRC, after a series of: real and diplomatic Tsushim.
        The newly emerged problem of Kosovo speaks of the complete impotence of our foreign policy system, which is increasingly weaker in real response to challenges and threats, except for internal PR, of course: on the central TV of all adversaries, we have already won with one hand.
        1. Olezhek
          19 June 2019 06: 57
          -18
          The newly emerged Kosovo problem speaks of the complete impotence of our foreign policy system.

          And this, I'm sorry, is our problem?
          Serbian brothers?
          1. ALARI
            ALARI 19 June 2019 08: 18
            +28
            And the problem of Syria? Is this our problem or the Syrian brothers? Did we need it?
            1. Cowbra
              Cowbra 19 June 2019 09: 58
              +15
              If it is profitable for us to solve it, then ours. It is profitable for us. An example - yes, oil so that the barmalei do not dump, and more importantly - so that they do not train fighters professionally for actions in the Russian Federation !!!
              1. AUL
                AUL 19 June 2019 11: 19
                0
                Quote: Cowbra
                even more important - so that there would not be trained fighters professionally already for action in the Russian Federation !!!

                Do you think that they will not be prepared somewhere nearby? For example, in Libya or Jordan. All the barmalei in Syria will not be handed over, let someone stay. And certainly the role of the Russian Federation will not be forgotten and forgiven. Therefore, I won’t be surprised if soon terrorists from Syria appear in the Russian Federation. Arabs - they are vindictive!
                1. Cowbra
                  Cowbra 19 June 2019 11: 26
                  +7
                  I think that even one destroyed training camp - any one - is already wonderful and no question better than nothing. In Albania, they are now preparing them because at one time we decided that Yugoslavia is not our war.
                  Learning from our mistakes.
                  1. Leshy1975
                    Leshy1975 19 June 2019 12: 24
                    +3
                    Quote: Cowbra
                    I think that even one destroyed training camp - any one - is already wonderful and no question better than nothing. In Albania, they are now preparing them because at one time we decided that Yugoslavia is not our war.
                    Learning from our mistakes.

                    From your logic:
                    even one destroyed training camp - any - is already wonderful and no question better than nothing.

                    it follows directly that you need to bomb Albania, just say yourself
                    In Albania, they are now preparing

                    just a little remains for you to explain
                    at one time we decided so - Yugoslavia is not our war

                    than these are Albanian fighters, not an example is better than the Syrian ones, that we bomb some, and let the latter be.
                    And I tell you, only chur no one else, in secret I’ll reveal a terrible secret, they are preparing fighters and there are many more camps where. Yes, even in the same Afghanistan, on the territory of Jordan, Pakistan, for some time now and on the territory of Ukraine (PS camp prohibited in the Russian Federation, and before that UNA-UNSO).
                    And some of the above list even took part in the database against the Russian Federation, its citizens, and even on the territory of the Russian Federation. Where is it even further, like our war, and why not bombing them then?
                    1. Cowbra
                      Cowbra 19 June 2019 13: 12
                      +4
                      Bomb where we can. We were invited to Syria. nobody will invite to Albania now. It will be a war, perhaps even a world war. Is it possible to think of a head? So, I did not understand the meaning of your post - i.e. anti-Russian militants in Syria can not be destroyed, because Do not bomb Albania?
                      1. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 19 June 2019 13: 18
                        +2
                        Quote: Cowbra
                        Bomb where we can. We were invited to Syria. nobody will invite to Albania now. It will be a war, perhaps even a world war. Is it possible to think of a head? So, I did not understand the meaning of your post - i.e. anti-Russian militants in Syria can not be destroyed, because Do not bomb Albania?

                        I do not like Albania, pay attention to Kosovo. We do not recognize Kosovo, and the Serbs, in due time, openly called for help. And since you are so capable of thinking with your head, then try to understand the meaning of the question: why are we bombing anti-Russian militants in Syria and not in other places. And we were invited not only to Syria.
                      2. Cowbra
                        Cowbra 19 June 2019 13: 24
                        +2
                        Are we in KOSOVO? Is Kosovo officially Serbia? And the Russian troops IN KOSOVO is not a war immediately with the "peacekeeping contingent" there, i.e. not even with the EU, but with the entire UN. And in KOSOVO, we do what we need, there are no training camps. they are in Bosnia with Albania.
                        You really do not understand, or is it too lazy to think in principle?
                      3. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 19 June 2019 13: 52
                        +3
                        Quote: Cowbra
                        Are we in KOSOVO? Is Kosovo officially Serbia? And the Russian troops IN KOSOVO is not a war immediately with the "peacekeeping contingent" there, i.e. not even with the EU, but with the entire UN. And in KOSOVO, we do what we need, there are no training camps. they are in Bosnia with Albania.
                        You really do not understand, or is it too lazy to think in principle?

                        Well, first of all, I see that you know very much about this issue:
                        Is KOSOVO officially Serbia?

                        Russia's principled position on Kosovo: UN Security Council Resolution 1244 was adopted at the 4011th meeting on June 10, 1999.
                        UN Security Council Emphasizing the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and at the same time, the provision of substantial autonomy and real self-government for Kosovo, has identified steps to resolve the Kosovo crisis.
                        Second
                        And IN KOSOVO, US - what is needed, there are no training camps there. they are in Bosnia with Albania.

                        b] At least five ISIS training camps are known in Kosovo [/ b], they are located in remote areas near the border of the self-proclaimed republic with Albania and Macedonia, a source close to the intelligence services told Sputnik.

                        I wanted to ask again: will we bomb everywhere, only for the main reason that they called us?
                        But I realized that it’s not worth it. Since you are your own fantasies, try to pass off as reality.
                        You really do not understand, or is it too lazy to think in principle?

                        And probably, you really don’t even understand this, and delving into the material is certainly too lazy for you.

                        Continue to win in Syria, well, or where else they will call, and further. And most importantly, do not try to get out of your ignorance, you are very comfortable in it. In reality, you will be disappointed.
                      4. Cowbra
                        Cowbra 19 June 2019 14: 30
                        -2
                        I would like to answer again - we will bomb everywhere. where we can, if it is profitable for us. As I said above. Will you stop doing balabalism?
                      5. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 19 June 2019 14: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Cowbra
                        I would like to answer again - we will bomb everywhere. where we can, if it is profitable for us. As I said above. Will you stop doing balabalism?

                        Those. You say the opposite of reality is you (and where do you get it from?), but to the balabol I? Well done, you can!
                      6. Cowbra
                        Cowbra 19 June 2019 14: 44
                        -2
                        No, I affirm the same thing, you, being engaged in demagogy - ask again. My only mistake is that there are camps in Kosovo, although I strongly doubt it even now - it makes no sense to deploy them where uncontrolled peacekeepers shy away, when Albania is at your side, where they can go for a walk.
                      7. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 19 June 2019 15: 06
                        +2
                        Quote: Cowbra
                        My only mistake - that there are camps in Kosovo

                        Come on! But this is yours:
                        Is KOSOVO officially Serbia?

                        The official position of the Russian Federation that Kosovo, officially, is Serbia. Of course there are countries (well, there is the USA and who is tied to them) and with the opposite official point of view, which one do you share?
                      8. Cowbra
                        Cowbra 19 June 2019 15: 09
                        -5
                        The official position, and that. what is recognized by the community are two different things. Kosovo
                        The Republic of Kosovo (inf.) (Alb. Republika e Kosovës, Serb. Republic of Kosovo, Republika Kosovo) - partially recognized state in southeastern Europe, on the Balkan Peninsula

                        Then go goodbye, your demagoguery tired me
                      9. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 19 June 2019 15: 44
                        +2
                        Quote: Cowbra
                        The official position, and that. what is recognized by the community are two different things. Kosovo
                        The Republic of Kosovo (inf.) (Alb. Republika e Kosovës, Serb. Republic of Kosovo, Republika Kosovo) - partially recognized state in southeastern Europe, on the Balkan Peninsula

                        Then go goodbye, your demagoguery tired me

                        Indeed, goodbye. If you yourself, you don’t even understand. First write yourself
                        officially - Serbia?
                        and then you start
                        The official position, and that. what is recognized by the community - Different things.
                      10. Ka-52
                        Ka-52 20 June 2019 09: 27
                        -2
                        I do not like Albania, pay attention to Kosovo. We do not recognize Kosovo, and the Serbs, in due time, openly called for help

                        explain pzhl. - why do you breed such demagogy? At the same time attract stale arguments by the ears.
                        During the events of the war and the collapse of Yugoslavia, we were connected by our own war in Chechnya. Do you think that at that moment the most wonderful thing was to get involved in another's civil war? Yes, even against the background of the state of affairs in the RF Armed Forces?
                        why in Syria we bomb anti-Russian militants, but not in other places. And we were invited not only to Syria

                        1. Syria is a regional ally in the Middle East.
                        2. The Syrian government has officially requested military assistance from the Russian Federation.
                        3. The Republic of Kosovo is not an ally or partner of the Russian Federation in any areas.
                        4. The Government of the Republic of Kosovo did not request military assistance from the Russian Federation in the fight against militants (illegal opposition)
                        5. The Government of Serbia (in the territory of which the conditionally recognized Republic of Kazakhstan is located) did not request military assistance from the Russian Federation in the fight against militants (illegal opposition)
                        Now try to find at least one logical (and not "divan-expert") explanation - on what basis should we bomb the territory of Kosovo?
                      11. kupitman
                        kupitman 20 June 2019 10: 25
                        -1
                        It is useless to argue with all-crawlers and those who do not see their toilet beyond their toilet
                      12. The popuas
                        The popuas 20 June 2019 16: 45
                        +1
                        You’ve chosen an interesting nickname for yourself .. wink probably a patriot lol
                      13. kupitman
                        kupitman 25 June 2019 12: 21
                        0
                        How does nickname patriotism correlate?
                      14. The popuas
                        The popuas 25 June 2019 13: 12
                        +1
                        Basically, people with such surnames are the most ,, patriots ,, ... in any country, wherever they live wink
                      15. kupitman
                        kupitman 26 June 2019 11: 19
                        0
                        so your nickname also says that you are a patriot of Papua New Guinea
                      16. Paranoid50
                        Paranoid50 25 June 2019 20: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Popuas
                        You’ve chosen an interesting nickname for yourself ..

                        That's who would say .... wassat
                      17. The popuas
                        The popuas 25 June 2019 21: 47
                        0
                        Checked out good Well, am I wrong?wink
              2. ALARI
                ALARI 19 June 2019 11: 40
                +6
                Then why this pathos brothers. There is oil, we will help you, oh no, then we will raise this issue at the UN, express concern, etc. Just tell me, in Ukraine, in the Donbass, are also bartenders or freedom fighters against tyranny?
                1. Cowbra
                  Cowbra 19 June 2019 11: 47
                  -2
                  And this is also part of the war - information war. And about the brothers, I personally think the same way as with such "brothers" as in Ukraine, for example - you have to do - Gogol clearly described it. Bulba shot "Pan Ondriya" like a dog - and he was right all around, they still clatter with them, "brotherly people", your mother. By the way. New Russia also has something to remember - on the first Maidan, Luhansk rode the highest, and he was also anti-Russian. Do you know why Spartak stadium was opened later than the plan? The metro could not be opened - supplies to "sworn Muscovy" EXACTLY from Lugansk were disrupted. They are brothers, their mother is through the yoke.
                  1. ALARI
                    ALARI 19 June 2019 11: 56
                    +9
                    Then we use, like the whole world, double standards. What is beneficial is what we take. And then all the West and the West.
                    1. Cowbra
                      Cowbra 19 June 2019 12: 03
                      +6
                      If you play karate with you, do not try to play chess. Divov won rightly said that a country cannot have any foreign policy. There can only be foreign trade. and politics should be domestic. And without any double standards - these are ours, and you are strangers.
                      1. ALARI
                        ALARI 19 June 2019 12: 12
                        +5
                        This one Divov that Cull wrote? He is essentially right, but with one BUT - the ruling elite should not be like ours now!
                      2. Cowbra
                        Cowbra 19 June 2019 12: 21
                        -7
                        He is one of the divas, but the elite is the same everywhere. Call any country and period. We were just lucky, for example, oligarchs - grated horseradish, but even against the methods of the pros from a strong intelligence agency do not pull - and mind you. Putin bent them into a ram's horn. moreover, at the starting positions, the whole country was in the hands of the oligarchs, even in Ukraine now it’s not like we had. They’ve taken up the siloviki - I hope it’s the same, it’s also not a pound of raisins - they are panicking, they say, ah Polkan, ah dough truck! Nobody can turn on the ISK — to think that it’s worth picking up such a ghoul, he has everything - money, armed subordinates — consider the army, the communications at the top, he himself is at the top.
                        "Another Elite"? What the hell, and what can it do with the security forces, who in the late 90s squeezed crime out of business and politics? Can you imagine how they dug in? No, everyone is whining, ah polkans, ah trucks. PLANT THEM, damn it! What do you need to avoid being imprisoned? Then there will be no polkans or trucks ... What kind of elite is needed?
                      3. ALARI
                        ALARI 19 June 2019 12: 38
                        +10
                        It was not in the 90s that the Polkans were digging in. They were still studying at the School. And in fact they robbed from 2010. And they did not steal with a pistol and AK, but with a writing pen and according to the laws that were adopted 10 years ago. It is necessary to plant, but also to remove those who wrote such laws by which it is possible to steal billions in cash. In our country, even when the Soviet Union fell into the cage, you can manage everything, write laws until death, nomenclature, closed caste.
                  2. Leshy1975
                    Leshy1975 19 June 2019 12: 38
                    +8
                    Quote: Cowbra
                    with such "brothers", as in Ukraine, for example - we must do - Gogol clearly described it. He shot Bulba "Pan Ondria" like a dog - and he was right all around

                    Hm. And than Ukrainians are much worse than some residents of some Caucasian republics. Does a citizen have a short memory? Or recall the story, still fairly recent, that happened to the Russian population in some places. Ukraine, according to the scale of the tragedy, did not stand there either.
                    Well, since, you will call for
                    He shot Bulba "Pan Ondria" like a dog - and he was right all around,
                    , only in relation to certain subjects of the Russian Federation? Or one place bench press?

                    PS I’m brothers in Ukraine and the Caucasus and generally everywhere, in the territory of the former USSR, who himself considers himself as such, and also believes that it was better together. And who understands that the ordinary people have nothing to share.
                    1. Cowbra
                      Cowbra 19 June 2019 13: 18
                      +2
                      The difference is that Chechnya is part of Russia and Ukraine is NOT. Therefore, to Ukraine - us-army, rake it yourself - and without yelling, Yu that Russia "must" help, for "brotherly people", when they want to eat a lot. And the territory of the Russian Federation is the territory of the Russian Federation. there, not to shoot, but to teach. What for? AND THEN THE RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS IN ABKHAZIA WAS THE FIRST TO SAVE THE CZECH REPUBLIC. Then, that Kadyrov personally flew to Kharkov to beat off RUSSIAN journalists from the SBU, while all the snot was chewing. Then, that the Czechs were in the DAP - and fought FOR RUSSIANS.
                      But the serf who is waiting for Russia to build the country for the fourth time for him to dig out another Mazepa-Petlyur-Bender-Turchinov again - why the hell didn’t fall and let him sit and eat the cookie from Nuland.
                      His path is his choice, and not our headache - the countries are DIFFERENT. If it is in our interests, for example, they invite the bender to do it, you can. For the rest - "sew yourself" ... Sew yourself, yourself
                      1. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 19 June 2019 13: 25
                        +6
                        Quote: Cowbra
                        The difference is that Chechnya is part of Russia and Ukraine is NOT. Therefore, to Ukraine - us-army, rake it yourself - and without yelling, Yu that Russia "must" help, for "brotherly people", when they want to eat a lot. And the territory of the Russian Federation is the territory of the Russian Federation. there, not to shoot, but to teach. What for? AND THEN THE RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS IN ABKHAZIA WAS THE FIRST TO SAVE THE CZECH REPUBLIC. Then, that Kadyrov personally flew to Kharkov to beat off RUSSIAN journalists from the SBU, while all the snot was chewing. Then, that the Czechs were in the DAP - and fought FOR RUSSIANS.
                        But the serf who is waiting for Russia to build the country for the fourth time for him to dig out another Mazepa-Petlyur-Bender-Turchinov again - why the hell didn’t fall and let him sit and eat the cookie from Nuland.
                        His path is his choice, and not our headache - the countries are DIFFERENT. If it is in our interests, for example, they invite the bender to do it, you can. For the rest - "sew yourself" ... Sew yourself, yourself

                        The fact that Ukraine is not the territory of the Russian Federation, I myself know. And Abkhazia and South Ossetia, is that the territory of the Russian Federation? Georgia now believes that this is their territory and nothing didn’t hurt the same. So I’ll ask again why it is the Ukrainians
                        Gogol described it clearly. He shot Bulba "Pan Ondria" like a dog - and he was right all around
                        .
                      2. Cowbra
                        Cowbra 19 June 2019 14: 35
                        -5
                        There were Russian peacekeepers in Abkhazia and South Ossetia - the issue of their protection is not discussed.
                        And about the Ukrainians, I will answer again - for good. they should be shot. Because not ours and enemies of Russia. It’s useless and impossible to teach them - they are not in our country... But since it will be a big war, the best. what we can do is isolate them. Let them cook themselves and without any screams about "bratskie peoples".
                        Highlighted in bold.
                        PiSi: If we cannot quit Novorossia purely geopolitically, then the rest of the jumping kagal - we do not need at all. And they chose their path
                      3. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 19 June 2019 14: 53
                        +6
                        Quote: Cowbra
                        There were Russian peacekeepers in Abkhazia and South Ossetia - the issue of their protection is not discussed.
                        And about the Ukrainians, I will answer again - for good. they should be shot. Because not ours and enemies of Russia. It’s useless and impossible to teach them - they are not in our country... But since it will be a big war, the best. what we can do is isolate them. Let them cook themselves and without any screams about "bratskie peoples".
                        Highlighted in bold.
                        PiSi: If we cannot quit Novorossia purely geopolitically, then the rest of the jumping kagal - we do not need at all. And they chose their path

                        I’ll highlight something, especially for you: The Czech Republic, from the time of the first and second wars, also believed that they were not in our country. And their path, at that time, they chose very clearly.
                        But Crimea was not ours, but it also chose its own path unambiguously.

                        Everyone chose everything unambiguously, and the reaction for some reason is different everywhere.
                        And about your Pisi. Do you even know what is included in New Russia historically? Who do you take and who do not need you anymore? Here is the same Kramatorsk or Slavyansk, for which there were fights and did not deter. Is it New Russia or already:
                        for good. they should be shot.
                        ?
                      4. Cowbra
                        Cowbra 19 June 2019 15: 06
                        -6
                        For the third time I repeat, there is a good saying - "repetition teaches a donkey": CR - Russia. Ukrainians are a DIFFERENT country. Read 10 times, maybe it will
                      5. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 19 June 2019 15: 15
                        +6
                        Quote: Cowbra
                        For the third time I repeat, there is a good saying - "repetition teaches a donkey": CR - Russia. Ukrainians are a DIFFERENT country. Read 10 times, maybe it will

                        Then, according to your logic, you must give Crimea, it is also a different country until 2014. Their passports and flag and anthem and coat of arms and oath were different. If your main argument is another country. Even some strange legalist, you are a foreign country, and here it’s not a foreign one. What interests me the most in this whole story is really one thing: how and by what criteria do you determine who is ours in our country (albeit recently and unexpectedly), and who, nevertheless, your words
                        for good. they should be shot.

                        So I'm waiting for an answer about the fate of the residents of Kramatorsk, Slavyansk, they are not included in today's LDNR.
                      6. Ka-52
                        Ka-52 20 June 2019 09: 43
                        -5
                        Goblin1975 Yesterday, 14:53
                        I’ll also highlight something especially for you: the Czech Republic, from the time of the first and second wars, also believed that they were not in our country. And their path, at that time, they chose very clearly.
                        But Crimea was not ours, but it also chose its own path unambiguously.
                        Everyone chose everything unambiguously, and the reaction for some reason is different everywhere.

                        1. you propose from revenge for 1991-2001 to arrange the genocide of the Caucasian peoples.
                        2. Do you propose starting hostilities against the sovereign state of Ukraine?
                        3. Do you think that the attack on the contingent of Russian peacekeepers in Tskhinval and the destruction of their place of deployment is an insignificant reason, which is not an argument for the use of force against Georgia?
                        4. Do you think that the Russian Federation should have rejected the request of the Republic of Crimea, based on the result of the referendum, for joining the Russian Federation?
                        let's do it without demagoguery, just answer the questions that arose based on your statements above
                      7. kupitman
                        kupitman 20 June 2019 10: 30
                        0
                        In the first, yes, but in the second, no, because Basayev’s friends had snapped up. Therefore, Akhmat Kadyrov supported the federals. And almost all the plain Chechnya was already loyal
                      8. tracer
                        tracer 20 June 2019 04: 13
                        -1
                        Decent answer comrade Cowbra. But such people, even the facts in the eyes are "god's dew" .. I would even say "golden rain" as a pervert's dream. With the Czechs, ours are well hooked. And somehow, in the process, we suddenly realized who we are and how our paradigms of national development coincide. We are a single state. Believing it in the burning Grozny was generally impossible. Passed it, and perhaps it should have been passed.
                  3. kupitman
                    kupitman 20 June 2019 10: 28
                    +3
                    In Lugansk, as a result, the strongest anti-Maidan sentiments were, as in Kharkov. Kharkiv was the first to revolt, although the "fire" was extinguished there
                  4. The comment was deleted.
                2. shinobi
                  shinobi 20 June 2019 07: 19
                  0
                  Ukraine, this is a very convenient place to find out the relations between Europe and Russia. Historically, they returned to Crimea, consider putting Azov and 2/3 of the Black Sea under full control. You can no longer be afraid of the landing force. The water area is shot to the very dardanelos. Donbass, buffer zone. If it weren’t for it, all this turbidity going on there would have happened on our border. We would have simply been forced to start a war. And since the regime in Lithuania has gradually eaten itself up. dividends project.
          2. Edward Vashchenko
            Edward Vashchenko 19 June 2019 11: 04
            +7
            The murder in Sarajevo and the subsequent ultimatum of Austria-Hungary to Serbia were also not our problem, as a result, but as a result of the Transdniestrian Moldavian Republic.
            1. Kronos
              Kronos 19 June 2019 13: 13
              +3
              The murder was just an excuse for all 3 Empires - the Russian, Austro-Hungarian and British were only looking for an excuse for war. For example, the Balkan war or the Anglo-Boer war almost became
            2. kupitman
              kupitman 20 June 2019 10: 32
              +2
              Yes, we didn’t declare war on Germany, but they told us. Well that's it, bob you knew
        2. Sergey1987
          Sergey1987 19 June 2019 13: 49
          0
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          After seriously helping the Americans in Afghanistan

          Logistics? Is this your serious help?
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          supported the “Arab revolution” and Washington’s actions

          This is in which country we supported the revolution do not tell me?
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          to overthrow the "socialist" secular regimes

          In Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen were there socialist regimes? Do not make me laugh.
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          Gaddafi’s surrender

          No one handed him over. He thought he normalized relations with the West. He was wrong. Instead of taking orientation on the Russian Federation and China.
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          started the war in Syria.

          And if we had not started it, you would have written that you surrendered Assad. You already let’s decide who shouldn’t be handed over, and who should.
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          according to many, regular cups

          What is a trap? Is there tens of thousands of our soldiers fighting?
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          real and diplomatic Tsushim

          This is where we had tsushima?
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          The newly emerged Kosovo problem speaks of the complete impotence of our foreign policy system.

          Well, yes, we also passed the Serbs, which the EU wants. Well, then we urgently need to help them and send troops to Serbia. You will also have an occasion to write about another trap, tsushima and a new war.
      2. TAMBU
        TAMBU 19 June 2019 06: 19
        +3
        and I don’t argue with anyone to argue ... I express my opinion. Arguments are a constructive element of the dispute as a way of convincing that they are right ... I do not convince anyone. I comment on what I read. one can agree with this or not. you can start convincing me that I am not right and then I can give my reasons for criticism or I agree that I am wrong ... it will be called a dialogue, if our opinions are opposite and we tell each other about it then it will be a dispute ... so it works
      3. WILL
        WILL 19 June 2019 06: 25
        +8
        Quote: Cowbra
        Arguments - zero

        But there is a conclusion! author - The war in Syria .... finished! laughing with Victory to you - Oleg Egorov! love
    2. Olezhek
      19 June 2019 07: 21
      -12
      The war in Syria is a dangerous, forced adventure, which at any moment can end in trouble ...


      Katz offers to surrender? belay
      1. dSK
        dSK 19 June 2019 07: 51
        +1
        Russia is learning to wage modern wars: "Shoigu said aboutAdach to develop a new theory of warfare. "Today, 06:43 / IN, News.
      2. TAMBU
        TAMBU 19 June 2019 07: 55
        +2
        to whom? all won already ...
    3. Civil
      Civil 19 June 2019 07: 36
      +6
      The First World War for Russia ended in defeat - a social explosion and the Brest Peace. Let me remind you.
      Collectivization and industrialization were bought at the cost of the greatest sacrifices. World War II turned into a real disaster for Russia.


      It doesn’t work differently here, is it not clear, really.

      But the war in the Syrian theater was already of a completely different nature: Russia basically “crushed technology”, at the same time promoting this equipment on international markets and promoting its interests in the region at the cost of money spent, but not human lives, scattered right and left.

      Which other? What activity and what aspect ratio - such and contingent. More would be even more expensive. Ground grouping mercenaries and special forces. The first were sent to make it cheaper, the second to support, not counting the military police and artillery.
      So the lives were also set, according to the intensity of the battles.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 19 June 2019 08: 06
        -5
        Quote: Civil
        What activity and what aspect ratio - such and contingent.

        Is the Syrian company very different from the first Chechen one in terms of aspect ratio?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 June 2019 16: 27
          +3
          Quote: Serg65
          Is the Syrian company very different from the first Chechen one in terms of aspect ratio?

          So the Syrian campaign is exactly what the First Chechen was supposed to be according to the original plans. That is, a purely intra-Chechen disassembly in which Moscow would help democratic opposition to the Dudaev regime (a familiar picture, isn't it?).
          if the Dudaev’s government uses violence in the fight against the opposition, the Russian authorities will be forced to protect the rights and lives of Russian citizens

          It was just smooth on paper. And in real life, due to the intra-Moscow squabbles, this resulted first in the surrender of Grozny, already taken by the detachments of Avturkhanov and Gantamirov (October 1993), and then - in the repeated assault of Grozny by Gantamirov and Labazanov, with the support of Russian armored vehicles and aircraft (November 1993 g.), which ended in failure due to the fact that after the first assault the Dudaevites sharply strengthened the defense of the city.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 19 June 2019 08: 26
        -12
        Quote: Civil
        World War I ended in defeat for Russia

        No. Read the Versailles Peace Treaty that ended the WWI: Russia had the right to SUCH indemnities and reparations like France and England.

        Brest peace was recognized only traitorswhom no one has chosen or authorized, and the occupiers. Russia and the rest of the world did not recognize him.
        Quote: Civil
        Collectivization and industrialization were bought at the cost of the greatest sacrifices.

        It doesn’t work differently here, is it not clear, really.

        THE WHOLE world has been built and is being built, differently: is it not clear?
        Collectivization, which led to a famine unprecedented in the history of mankind in .... peace (!) Time, was not anywhere else.
        Quote: Civil
        So the lives were also set, according to the intensity of the battles.

        Terrorists should be stopped in Syria, not in "Nord-Ost"
        1. qQQQ
          qQQQ 19 June 2019 09: 15
          +8
          Quote: Olgovich
          Collectivization, which led to a famine unprecedented in the history of mankind in .... peace (!) Time, was not anywhere else.
          Come on. But what about the USA in the same period? But nothing, in fact, that the famine was provoked precisely by the West? That during the period of collectivization, the USSR began to demand payment for technology, machines only with bread, they did not take gold or currency, only wheat. Raise the history of the United States, with its famine of its own population, even our brothers send these photos, though they pass them off as ours. In no way do I want to deny the famine we had during the period of collectivization, but there were very good reasons for it, and thanks to it, in fact, we all survived then and are surviving now.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 19 June 2019 09: 40
            -6
            Quote: qqqq
            Come on. But what about the USA in the same period?

            Was there ... collectivization?
            Quote: qqqq
            But nothing, in fact, that the famine was provoked precisely by the West?

            Nothing: what,., West ?! Did he exile millions of peasants, took their property from them, drove the rest to collective farms?
            Quote: qqqq
            That during the period of collectivization, the USSR began to demand payment for technology, machines only with bread, they did not take gold or currency, only wheat.

            Nonsense-gold exported, almost everything, read about Torgsin-what it was created for. When it was over, they began to sell the national wealth of Russia from museums for nothing.
            Quote: qqqq
            Raise the history of the United States, with its famine of its own population,

            No one, even in the USSR (!) Wrote about the Holodomor in the USA. And the USA don’t know him. And, according to the Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR of 1955, in the 1930s, Americans ate several times more food than in the USSR — read it!
            Quote: qqqq
            collectivization, but there were very good reasons for it, and it was thanks to it, in fact, that we all survived then and are surviving now.

            The only reason is the lack of knowledge, experience and mind. And she led to the consumption of food, LESS THAN than 1913 even before the 1950s (the same Report) and the depopulation and extinction of the village.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 19 June 2019 09: 54
              +3
              Collectivization led to unseen in history humanity's famine in .... peaceful (!) time

              Previously, at least in the twentieth century
              And she led to the consumption of food, LESS THAN than 1913 until the 1950s ... and depopulation and the extinction of the village

              Nothing new, as there was no understanding, never appeared
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 20 June 2019 09: 03
                0
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                Previously, at least in the twentieth century

                I didn’t add: NEVER in the history of mankind SUCH a hunger, with such a number of victims, there were no victims until the middle of the 20th century.
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                Nothing new, as there was no understanding, never appeared

                Nothing new: just as you didn’t have knowledge, they didn’t appear .... Report to the Central Statistical Bureau of 1955 to memorize, finally.
                Shame ....
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 20 June 2019 09: 13
                  +1
                  NEVER in the history of mankind SUCH a hunger, with such a number of victims, was not until the mid-20th century.

                  Any of the "interpretations" is nothing more than "Yaroslavna's cry"
                  The report of the Central Statistical Bureau of 1955 is memorized at last.

                  Olgovich, you’ll at least get a little more if you look in a book and see a fig - no cramming gives you anything.
                  The table given by me is two tables of your favorite report combined in one. Neither more nor less. In the last correspondence you were explained in detail.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 June 2019 09: 55
                    0
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Any of "interpretations" nothing more than "Yaroslavna's cry"

                    Write in Russian
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    The table given by me is two tables of your favorite report combined in one. Neither more nor less. In the last correspondence you were explained in detail.

                    Do you really think that I read everything?
                    green bullshit-correct for red
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 20 June 2019 10: 03
                      0
                      Write in Russian

                      Why did you single out one word? Do not understand its meaning? I am sure that you are filling this gap.
                      green bullshit-correct for red

                      no reason
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 June 2019 12: 07
                        -1
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Why did you single out one word? Do not understand its meaning? I am sure that you are filling this gap

                        Do not understand Russian? request
                        Not sure if you fill this gap
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        no reason
                        Yes, yes: only you have 24 and 26 .... more than 27. And 138 is more than 154

                        Shame ....
                      2. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 20 June 2019 13: 22
                        0
                        Well, unreasonable nonsense about the Russian language, I will not touch, let it remain on your conscience. And here
                        Yes, yes: only you have 24 and 26 .... more than 27. And 138 is more than 154

                        Well I said, look at the book - you see a fig.
                        No. I have 24 and 26 are more than 19,8. And 138 is more than 74,2. You have already been explained earlier what these numbers are. The combination of the two tables allows you to take into account the estates (and the fact that the first table does not take this into account is directly stated in the text of the report, but you are trying hard not to notice this).
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2019 08: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Well, unreasonable nonsense about the Russian language, I will not touch, let remains on your conscience.

                        But I leave nothing to you, for there is nothing to leave.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Well I said, look at the book - you see a fig.

                        Yes, you say a lot of nonsense, i.e., practically, everything
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        No. I have 24 and 26 are more than 19,8. And 138 is more than 74,2. You have already been explained earlier what these numbers are. Combining two tables allows you to take into account the estate

                        Yes. I do not divide people on a social basis.
                        Therefore, 27 is more than 24 and 26 and much more than 18 kg of "flourishing" 1937 (although there are Soviet statistics and about ... 13 kg of meat in 1937). At the same time, 27 kg in Russia was really MEAT, and not what was shamelessly considered "meat" in the USSR: boobs, p-ki and other fat (and with an increasing coefficient!) And the rest of the offal, offal
                      4. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 21 June 2019 08: 42
                        -1
                        Yes. I do not divide people on a social basis.

                        Honor and praise. But in RI shared.
                        At the same time, 27 kg in Russia it was really MEAT, and not boobs, p-ki and other fat (and with increasing coefficient!)

                        Milky rivers, sweet and sour banks.
                        as falsely believed in the CSB

                        Nobody pulled you by the ears to cite the report of the CSB; you yourself chose it as an argument. Why are you stuffing people with false information, in this case?
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2019 09: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        But in RI shared.

                        YOU share.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Milky rivers, sweet and sour banks.

                        Exactly! Compared to the "wealthy people" in 1933 (this is what your party of starving peasants called in 1933)
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Nobody pulled you by the ears to bring the report of the CSB, you yourself chose it as an argument. Why do you stuff people with false information, in this case

                        Why is it incomprehensible? She is believed by witnesses of the sect.
                        But even this thoroughly false statistics admitted the defeat (secretly, it is true) of the "overtakes".
            2. qQQQ
              qQQQ 19 June 2019 11: 49
              +5
              In the USA in the 30s there was precisely famine, the number of its victims is in the millions, it was caused not by collectivization, but by the financial crisis, the essence of it was that there was famine. Collectivization was vital and the whole subsequent history is a confirmation of this. The fact that the country was backward, agrarian, Stalin is not to blame. The fact that I had to buy almost everything necessary to create my own industrial base is also not his fault, but the fact that they began to accept payment with wheat, this can already be regarded in different ways. I will not argue that this is a deliberate sabotage, there was a famine there, most likely the truth in the middle, somewhere it was necessary for ourselves, somewhere it was not averse to shitting. They sold museums much earlier, even under Illich, in the 30s there wasn’t such a massive sale. The CIA report, and even in the public domain, the source of truth, you can take a report from any Congress of the CPSU for this report (this is irony). Millions of peasants were driven, is that how? Before the revolution in RI there was a communal cx, essentially the same collective farms, trying to change Stolypin, as far as it turned out, the question is open. And about the lack of knowledge and experience, so who argues, see above is a backward agrarian country, but this does not negate that it was not necessary to carry out industrialization. Once again - it is thanks to her that we now generally live.
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 19 June 2019 12: 26
                0
                CIA Report

                CSB - Central Statistical Bureau
                1. qQQQ
                  qQQQ 19 June 2019 13: 55
                  +1
                  Sory, wrong.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 20 June 2019 09: 15
                +1
                Quote: qqqq
                In the USA in the 30s there was precisely famine, the number of its victims is in the millions, it was caused not by collectivization, but by the financial crisis, the essence of it was that there was famine.

                The report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955 - to help: Americans ate in the 30s many times more owls of citizens.
                Quote: qqqq
                Collectivization was vital and the whole subsequent history is a confirmation of this.

                Yeah .... The consumption of food of the 1913 level only WAS DONE by the 1950s - report of the CSB 1955
                Quote: qqqq
                . The fact that the country was backward, agrarian, Stalin is not to blame. The fact that I had to buy almost everything necessary to create my own industrial base is also not his fault, but the fact that they began to accept payment with wheat, this can already be regarded in different ways.

                Do not know how, do not take it! No one on such victims, and even criminally hidden from the people, did not sign.
                Quote: qqqq
                They sold museums much earlier, even under Illich, in the 30s there wasn’t such a massive sale.

                Was.
                Quote: qqqq
                And about the lack of knowledge and experience, so who argues, see above is a backward agrarian country, but this does not negate that it was not necessary to carry out industrialization. Once again - it is thanks to her that we now generally live.

                Industrialization was needed because of the DE-industrialization that occurred due to the BOP and the massacre.

                The growth of production to the VOR, preserved country, ensured the achievement of the same level of production in 1940 as in the USSR by this year, but with a population of tens of millions more in a free country
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 20 June 2019 09: 46
                  -1
                  The growth of production to the VOR, preserved country, ensured the achievement of the same level of production in 1940 as in the USSR by this year, but with a population of tens of millions more in a free country

                  Probably some researcher conducted an appropriate study? Is this voluminous, comprehensive, many pages? Is it true? Isn't that just your thoughts out loud?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 June 2019 12: 09
                    +1
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Probably some researcher conducted an appropriate study? Is this voluminous, comprehensive, many pages? Is it true? Isn't that just your thoughts out loud?

                    Конечно.

                    And- "herself, herself !!" (FROM)
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 20 June 2019 13: 26
                      0
                      Конечно.

                      Well, tell the world! I will study this monumental work with great pleasure!
                      Or it remains only to say that you again lied.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2019 08: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Well, tell the world! I will study this monumental work with great pleasure!

                        "She herself!" (WITH) yes
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Or it remains only to say that you again lied.

                        I really "value" your opinion! lol

                        For the opinion of complete bankrupts is exactly what is especially "valuable". yes
                      2. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 21 June 2019 08: 47
                        0
                        Everything's clear with you.
                        They lied again.
                        You were caught again by the hand.
                        You again turn to childhood insults, the benefit of the Internet gives impunity.
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2019 09: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        They lied again.

                        Again you, um, can't ... you can. request No.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        You were caught again by the hand.

                        belay
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        You again turn to childish insults, the benefit of the Internet gives impunity

                        belay
                        What offended you? recourseBy the way, but outside the Internet, what would it be? wink
                      4. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 21 June 2019 09: 33
                        0
                        Again you, um, can't ... you can.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Probably some researcher conducted an appropriate study? Is this voluminous, comprehensive, many pages? Is it true? Isn't that just your thoughts out loud?

                        Конечно.

                        You cannot be responsible for your words.
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2019 09: 37
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        You cannot be responsible for your words.

                        TWO TIMES you are answered:
                        Olgovich
                        "She herself!" (WITH)
                        How much more is needed? belay request
                      6. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 21 June 2019 09: 42
                        0
                        It was not necessary to write "Itself, itself" at least how many times.
                        Just ONCE need to write (well, since you are responsible for the words)
                        which researcher conducted the corresponding comprehensive study that the growth of production to the BOP, the country remained, ensured the achievement of the same level of production in 1940 as in the USSR by this year, but with a population of tens of millions more in a free country


                        Surname of the researcher, name of the work.
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2019 11: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        It was not necessary to write "Itself, itself" at least how many times.
                        Just ONCE need to write (well, since you are responsible for the words)
                        which researcher conducted the corresponding comprehensive study that the growth of production to the BOP, the country remained, ensured the achievement of the same level of production in 1940 as in the USSR by this year, but with a population of tens of millions more in a free country


                        Surname of the researcher, name of the work.

                        You got it already, I'm sorry:
                        1. take LB Kafengauza "Evolution of industrial production of Russia" and stat. collections of the USSR on the same positions, and you will see.

                        2. According to people, read that you lied to the Secretary General at the 17th Congress, which he wrote in Pravda in 1935 and the census of 1937.
                        In the Demoscope, there are pivot tables of losses.
                      8. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 21 June 2019 12: 19
                        -1
                        LB Kafengauza "The evolution of industrial production in Russia"

                        I understand that you need to present at least something, but if you yourself read what you offer to others, you could understand (perhaps) that the material presented does not meet the requirements of the request. The author himself in the preface to the book wrote about the purpose of the book. And it is NOT
                        that the growth of production to the VOR, the country was preserved, ensured the achievement of the same level of production in 1940 as in the USSR by this year, but with a population of tens of millions more in a free country

                        I give a hint - if in the book industry is not analyzed in the context of other sectors of the national economy, population, markets and the financial sector, then do not even bother to cite.
                        read that the Secretary General lied at the 17th Congress, what he wrote in Pravda in 1935 and the census

                        I want to read not a lie to the Secretary General, but a case study
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Probably some researcher conducted an appropriate study? Is this voluminous, comprehensive, many pages? Is it true? Isn't that just your thoughts out loud?

                        Конечно.

                        you said there is. You can’t bring it. Shove everything.

                        And the funny thing is that if you use the Cafengauz book and USSR statistics for 40 years on industry to independently conduct a direct assessment (it is not representative without taking into account other sectors of the national economy, population, markets and the financial sector, but even so), then it’s easy to see that the statement about achieving the same level of production is not true
                      9. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 June 2019 08: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        I understand that you need to present at least something, but if you yourself read what you offer to others, you could understand (perhaps) that the material presented does not meet the requirements of the request.

                        Answers in full. But you are not able to understand it. So this is your problem.

                        What are you loading it with others?
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        I give a hint - if in the book industry is not analyzed in the context of other sectors of the national economy, population, markets and the financial sector, then do not even bother to cite.

                        Yes, your conditions and framework are not interesting to me.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        I want to read not a lie to the Secretary General, but a case study

                        Sources are indicated. Not getting it?
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        you said there is. You can’t bring it. Shove everything.

                        Sources are given. Not getting it?
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And the funny thing is that if you use the Cafengauz book and USSR statistics for 40 years on industry to independently conduct a direct assessment (it is not representative without taking into account other sectors of the national economy, population, markets and the financial sector, but even so), then it’s easy to see that the statement about achieving the same level of production is not true

                        Chatter. Lying.
                      10. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 24 June 2019 18: 33
                        0
                        Answers in full.
                        Sources are indicated.
                        Sources are given.

                        Again. Cafengauz, in the preface to the book, wrote about the purpose of the book. And it is NOT
                        that the growth of production to the VOR, the country was preserved, ensured the achievement of the same level of production in 1940 as in the USSR by this year, but with a population of tens of millions more in a free country

                        Nobody pulled you for the language to say that there is such a study. I ask (for the third time) to provide for review.
                        Chatter. Lying

                        No. It is checked at times by the data from the same Cafengauz. With the growth rate of the number of heavy industry workers in the 20th century in the Russian Empire, by 1940 their number would have been 4,6 million. And this would have been if there had not been the war and the imbalance that it brought. In the USSR in 1940, 7,8 million worked in heavy industry. There is no one to provide your mythical level of production of the means of production, which drags the production of consumer goods. Everything, to the next pillar, the locomotive of industry - energy, can not be passed on, although there everything becomes clear at all. Well, the question is after - where to get money for industry? In 1913 they are conditionally there, after the war a negative balance of 615-775 million rubles, depending on the conditions of the re-lending. How would this help to maintain the pre-war pace?
                2. qQQQ
                  qQQQ 20 June 2019 11: 31
                  0
                  The Americans may have eaten, the only question is, which Americans were dying of hunger then? To argue about the amount of consumption of a country that earned money on WWI and a country that suffered two revolutions, etc. not even about anything, with all this, the famine in the United States was comparable (if not greater) with the USSR. After 1913. RI got involved in a devastating war, suffered two revolutions, intervention, civil war, and after that you want to flourish? It happened, but later, everything takes time. As for, you do not know how do not take it, in tsarist Russia they did not know how and did not take it, as a result they loved everything. On this occasion, it is better for Stalin not to say: "We are 50-100 years behind the advanced countries. We must cover this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they will crush us ...". There was no choice, no one was going to build industry for us, a vivid example today with our liberals: we will buy everything, no one is in a hurry to sell us something more expensive than beads. There was nothing special to de-normalize, all the factories were restored and worked, RI was not an industrial country. Read how many enterprises were put into operation during industrialization, RI would have built them for centuries, again, see our time. About freedom: it does not exist in principle, we all depend on something. Paradox: in the USSR, the majority (I take the majority) was more free than now.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 June 2019 12: 19
                    -1
                    Quote: qqqq
                    Americans may have eaten, only a question, and what Americans were dying of hunger then?

                    None. There were none.
                    Quote: qqqq
                    To argue about the amount of consumption of the country that earned WWI and the country that underwent two revolutions, etc. not even about anything, with all this hunger in the United States was comparable (if not more) with the USSR.

                    ONCE AGAIN - to numbers: food consumption by amers is ONCE MORE than the conscientious one in 30 years
                    Quote: qqqq
                    After 1913 RI got involved in a devastating war, suffered two revolutions, intervention, civil war, and after that you want to flourish?

                    The aggressors attacked Russia, as in the 41th WWII and the massacre, the merit of no-one chosen traitors.
                    Quote: qqqq
                    It happened, but later, everything needs time

                    Yeah: after 40 years, only DECLARED the consumption of 1913
                    Quote: qqqq
                    . As for, you don’t know how to handle it, in tsarist Russia they didn’t know how and didn’t take it, as a result they all liked it.

                    Yeah: the largest country in the world, a booming population, advanced science and engineering.
                    The result of the following reigning rulers: the borders of Russia of the 17th century (from 1917-1930), the Russian Cross
                    Quote: qqqq
                    Deinstall specifically there was nothing,

                    Russophobia in full glory.
                    Quote: qqqq
                    Read how many enterprises were commissioned during industrialization, RI would build them for centuries

                    Nonsense, see. Transsiberian: the USSR never built anything like that, especially in similar terms.
                    Quote: qqqq
                    About freedom: it does not happen in principle, we all depend on something. Paradox: in the USSR, the majority (I take the majority) was more free than now.

                    This is when a galoshov musts decided what to read and what to teach? lol
                    1. qQQQ
                      qQQQ 20 June 2019 14: 56
                      +1
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      None. There were none.
                      There is so much information on this subject that let's stop the discussion about hunger in the USA.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      ONCE AGAIN - to numbers: food consumption by amers is ONCE MORE than the conscientious one in 30 years
                      Once again, I do not argue, for objective reasons, the USSR could not consume more than the United States, although the issue is debated, but how the sampling was conducted and by what criteria.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The aggressors attacked Russia, as in the 41th WWII and the massacre, the merit of no-one chosen traitors.
                      You can consider anything, but in fact the Entente was the aggressor, and the civil war began with the revolt of the white whites, and the Soviet government was supported by the majority of the population, the army and the command of this army, so in my opinion, it is the White Guard movement that can be regarded as aggression.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Yeah: the largest country in the world, a booming population, advanced science and engineering.
                      Well, what did RI produce in the world-class industrial sector? Nothing, unfortunately. We sold soldiers to France for shells and rifles, and the best ones were selected.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Russophobia in full glory.
                      Are you by any chance, in the past, not an ideological communist? Whoever does not agree with the Party’s opinion is to the wall.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Nonsense, see. Transsiberian: the USSR never built anything like that, especially in similar terms.
                      When needed, they made BAM, the question is that in fact it is especially not even needed now. And read, on whose money, how much and how much Transib was built? We recall the school course of the Nekrasov (this is not a document, it is an example that not everything is so simple).

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      This is when a galoshov musts decided what to read and what to teach?
                      No, this is when in the USSR it was possible to leave for any city, exchange an apartment (the price difference was lifting), get a job, support a family, etc. when it was possible to tell any director about all his shoals and continue to work, it is not freedom when behind the Moscow Ring Road in cities there is monoproductivity and any boss, if desired, throws any objectionable out of work, and there is nowhere to work, far from Moscow. Such examples cannot be listed. Now we are real economic slaves. This is our reality, capitalism.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2019 09: 06
                        0
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Once again, I do not argue, for objective reasons, the USSR could not consume more than the United States, although the issue is debated, but how the sampling was conducted and by what criteria.

                        The samples were made by the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR, do you trust them?
                        If in the USA, consuming much more food, they died (in your opinion), then how did they survive in the USSR, where they ate much less?
                        Quote: qqqq
                        There is so much information on this subject that let's stop the discussion about hunger in the USA.

                        DRAWERS a lot, FACTS, no!
                        Quote: qqqq
                        You can consider anything, but in fact the Entente was the aggressor

                        Your alternative story is of no interest to anyone. Aggressor-Germany, who declared war and attacked Russia
                        Quote: qqqq
                        and the civil war began with the revolt of the white whites

                        October 25, 1917 began, as announced on the same day on the so-called. "2nd Congress of Soviets" (Martov)
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Soviet power was supported by the majority of the population, the army and the command of this same army,

                        ALL elections the Bolsheviks LOSED. Let me remind you that the will of the people is determined in the elections, and not in the process of breaking skulls with clubs.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Well, what did RI produce in the world-class industrial sector? Nothing, Unfortunately.

                        Why such hatred for ... YOUR country?
                        The Trans-Siberian Railway, recognized by the Americans as an event significant with the discovery of America, was built according to RUSSIAN projects, RUSSIAN engineers, RUSSIAN workers, according to RUSSIAN unique technologies, from RUSSIAN materials and products.
                        Remember that the bridge is longer than the Russian bridge, and in the USSR failed build ....
                        World leader in motor ships, river fleet, naval aviation, steam locomotives, etc.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        . We sold soldiers to France for shells and rifles, and the best ones were selected.

                        French-cannon fodder PMV, unlike WWII ....
                        Quote: qqqq
                        When needed, they made BAM, the question is that in fact it is especially not even needed now.

                        He is much smaller than the Trans-Siberian Railway and was tortured for forty years, tormented and not tortured to the end
                        Quote: qqqq
                        No, this is when in the USSR it was possible to leave for any city, exchange an apartment (the price difference was lifting),

                        Aha, registration is "freedom"
                        Learn to begin with, what is the concept of "freedom" -for a person means
                      2. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 21 June 2019 10: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        If in the USA, consuming much more food, they died (in your opinion), then how did they survive in the USSR, where they ate much less?
                        The boss eats black caviar, and I’m bread, according to statistics we eat sandwiches with black caviar. We now have an average salary of 40 tons. , beyond the Moscow Ring Road gets a lot of it?

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        DRAWERS a lot, FACTS, no!
                        This is like proving to a believer that there is no God, he sees his manifestation in everything. Do you believe that the United States is the embodiment of the "kingdom of heaven on earth," in fact, I do not see anything like it.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Aggressor-Germany, who declared war and attacked Russia
                        The beginning of the WWII, if I may say so, was by universal agreement, and as regards the DB after the Revolution, they flowed from the WWII, what Germany did on our fronts is clear, and what have the Entente countries forgotten here? The civil war has many objective reasons, there is nothing to argue about, but it was the uprising of the white whites and their rapid advance across Siberia that served as a powerful impetus for its activation. It is the beginning of the database on the Western Front and this uprising that stands out as the first stage of the Civil War.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ALL elections the Bolsheviks LOSED. Let me remind you that the will of the people is determined in the elections, and not in the process of breaking skulls with clubs.
                        The Bolsheviks ignored verbiage, took responsibility, glued (this I think is an obvious fact) a decaying country, and ultimately brought it to at least second place in the world. Moreover, here I think it is possible to agree that the power at that time simply lay underfoot, who had more courage and will, he picked it up. And how elections are made, there is no need to tell, if the manipulation technology is interesting, you can talk, but the fact that they are very far from the real situation, I think, is an obvious fact.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Why such hatred for ... YOUR country?
                        Recognizing the facts is the first step, not repeating them in the future. It is impossible to recognize five and two political and patriotic feelings twice as five, only degradation and collapse, a vivid example of our brothers (we see this specifically for us to study), they are trying to extinguish their civil war, based on the postulate that this is external aggression, we see the result. About Transib, no one denies its significance, but in the USSR there were many other achievements comparable, just, as I wrote, the second Transib was not really needed. That is why BAM was tormented because they cannot even come up with an economic justification now, it was more a military project.

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        French-cannon fodder PMV, unlike WWII ....
                        Namely, we sold our best people to this meat. As a result, the French threw them into the meat grinder itself.


                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Learn to begin with, what is the concept of "freedom" -for a person means

                        And what does she mean? The registration did not cancel the free movement, complicated yes, but did not cancel.
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 June 2019 10: 57
                        0
                        Quote: qqqq
                        The boss eats black caviar, and I’m bread, according to statistics we eat sandwiches with black caviar.

                        No, according to statistics, they eat almost one bread
                        Quote: qqqq
                        This is like proving to a believer that there is no God, he sees his manifestation in everything. Do you believe that the United States is the embodiment of the "kingdom of heaven on earth," in fact, I do not see anything like it.

                        And I do not see. As well as starvation deaths in the USA, they did not see, which in the USSR, these dead Americans, did not see. Sneaky-only recently drew-the Communists of the Russian Federation.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        The beginning of the WWII, so to speak, was consensus,

                        ?! belay
                        Quote: qqqq
                        and what have the Entente countries forgotten here?

                        The same that the USSR forgot in Iran in 1941
                        Quote: qqqq
                        the alchemists ignored verbiage, took responsibility, stuck together (this I think is an obvious fact) a decaying country, and ultimately brought it to at least second place in the world

                        Ignored the WILL of the PEOPLE (elections in the CSS), cut Russia into dozens of parts (Russia, after the formation of the USSR, lost ... 4 million km2), led it to collapse and extinction by 1991
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Of the political, patriotic feelings, two and two should not be recognized as five,

                        You are given the FACTS of industrial development mills
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Namely, we sold our best people to this meat. As a result, the French threw them into the meat grinder itself.

                        For Lendlis, they also sold, according to your logic.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        And what does she mean?

                        This is the right to choose — books, opinions, meetings, leaderships, parties, utterances, press, conscience, etc., which was not even mentioned by a person.
                      4. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 21 June 2019 12: 10
                        0
                        About statistical bread: take the cost of caviar + bread, on average, you get 40 tons of money. average salary. There is nothing much to discuss about the WWII: they were preparing for it, they wanted it, it was beneficial to everyone except RI, only the stupidity of the tsarist regime allowed us to draw it into it. Iran, as an example, is out of place at all, we provided ourselves with a corridor for Lend-Lease, after which we left, we did not rob, did not change the system, in general, the example was not successful. The Bolsheviks delayed for 70 years what the Provisional Government began to do, there was a chance to get away from this scenario, but we are always strong with a backward mind. They paid for the land lease in gold, but not in people (maybe you just don’t know what I mean about people, this is sending 20 tons of the corps to France, for this RI received rifles, ammunition. I don’t know such examples in history anymore , except that the Papuans sold their slave owners for guns and beads). Right, that is, there is no one to choose. I propose to tell my leadership the whole truth, it will be interesting.
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 June 2019 08: 50
                        0
                        Quote: qqqq
                        About statistical bread: take the cost of caviar + bread, on average, you get 40 tons of money. average salary.

                        Bread is obtained. and one egg each.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        There is nothing much to discuss about the WWII: they were preparing for it, they wanted it, it was beneficial to everyone except RI, only the stupidity of the tsarist regime allowed us to draw it into it.

                        Just like the "stupidity of the next-in WWII
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Iran, as an example, is out of place at all, we provided ourselves with a corridor for Lend-Lease, after which we left, we did not rob, did not change the system, in general, the example was not successful.

                        It was an intervention, a military invasion, with the goal of removing Hitler's ally and landis too, of course. As for building and exit, learn the material.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        The Bolsheviks delayed 70 years, what the Provisional Government began to do,

                        NOBODY at VP did not leave. Remember this fact
                        . After the thief, ALL came out strictly according to the appeal and documents of the Bolsheviks. In 1917, they prepared a catastrophe of 91 g, they strove for it (sovereign republics) for 70 years and got the same result. Where is RUSSIAN Odessa and RUSSIAN Nikolaev ?!
                        Quote: qqqq
                        what I meant about people is sending 20 tons of the corps to France, sand this RI received rifles, ammunition.

                        Lying.
                        According to Lendliz: we shed blood, and the Allies bought off goods.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Right, that is, there is no one to choose. I propose to tell my leadership the whole truth, it will be interesting.

                        You have no one, others have someone. Freedom!
                      6. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 22 June 2019 09: 24
                        0
                        1 kg. caviar - 50 tons; a loaf of bread - 40 rubles. , for two it turns out everyone ate 25020 rubles. - This is to the question of eggs (mathematics is stronger than Goethe's Faust). About PMV and Iran - that's enough, a lot of documents - read. VP just didn’t manage to distribute our lands, it’s painfully mediocre, again read who promised what to the Americans, the British, and how Kolchak gave away the lands is a separate song, it was the Bolsheviks who glued RI, another question is that they changed the internal structure, thereby laying down the further collapse (I mean republics), well, nobody argues with that. Under Lend-Lease, we did not shed blood, we poured it with rivers, protecting our Homeland. And they paid for deliveries with gold. And there would be no Lend-Lease blood would have shed not less, but much more. You can argue for a long time about the importance of supplies, but the mere fact that they have saved many thousands of lives makes them justified. Freedom is an illusion, you can think and convince yourself of anything, but facts are a stubborn thing.
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 23 June 2019 07: 30
                        0
                        Quote: qqqq
                        1 kg. caviar - 50 tons; a loaf of bread - 40 rubles. , for two it turns out everyone ate 25020 rubles. - This is to the question of eggs (mathematics is stronger than Goethe's Faust).

                        Namely: they ate the BREAD, and not the eggs. What are we talking about
                        Quote: qqqq
                        About PMV and Iran - that's enough, a lot of documents - read.

                        You have not read them, judging by the "knowledge"
                        Quote: qqqq
                        VP just didn’t manage to distribute our lands, it’s painfully mediocre, again read who promised what to the Americans, the British

                        It didn’t give, the Bolsheviks distributed, and this is a FACT
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Kolchak gave away lands- separate song

                        Documents, please.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        it was the Bolsheviks who glued RI

                        Even the name "Russia" disappeared from the world map for 70 years. The Bolsheviks cut off from Russia 5 million km2-cm. today's map — ALL these borders — are cut by them.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Under Lend-Lease, we did not shed blood, we poured it with rivers, protecting our Homeland. And they paid for deliveries with gold.

                        We were not given weapons for gold (they gave a lot of it before the war, yeah), but for the fact that blood was poured instead of them (so that their turn did not reach them).

                        And if in WWII the allies, suffering wild losses, ran after Russia: Hit, hit ", then in WWII the situation was diametrically opposite. Did you catch the difference?

                        Quote: qqqq
                        Freedom is an illusion, you can think and convince yourself of anything, but facts are a stubborn thing.

                        It’s enough for you that you were allowed to read, know and think the idiots from the Central Committee of that party, but this is not enough for people, and now they have this opportunity to read, know and think whatever they have
                      8. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 23 June 2019 09: 20
                        0
                        For all questions - kindergarten, pants with straps. The idiots from the Central Committee gave me the most important thing - education, the ability and the ability to think, and I’ll figure out what to read and how to interpret. Once again: now they have the opportunity, but there is nothing to think about, a parallel reality has been created in which everyone is deliberately "cooked", while replacing education with some kind of surrogate for money. Based on your knowledge, the discussion is over (not interesting, just slogans), goodbye.
                      9. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 23 June 2019 12: 18
                        0
                        Quote: qqqq
                        about all issues - kindergarten, pants on the straps.

                        You can not object to the facts
                        Quote: qqqq
                        The idiots from the Central Committee gave me the most important thing - education, ability and ability to think, and what to read and how to interpret, I will figure it out myself.

                        This COUNTRY gave you, the STATE, as in France, Germany, etc., where the Central Committee did not smell.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        , and what to read and how to interpret, I’ll figure it out myself.

                        What you didn’t decide to read and think: the wisdom decided it
                        Quote: qqqq
                        now they have the opportunity, but there is nothing to think with, a parallel reality has been created in which everyone is deliberately "cooked", while replacing education with some kind of surrogate for money.

                        The main thing is that there is an opportunity, then it was NOT AT ALL. And to think to people there is something not for you to judge about it.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        parallel reality

                        parallel reality is when millions died of starvation, and they were called ... wealthy people
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Given your knowledge, the discussion is over (not interesting, only slogans), goodbye.

                        You simply do not have knowledge: you do not know and do not like the history of your country.
                        Good Luck! hi
        2. Leshy1975
          Leshy1975 19 June 2019 12: 58
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: Civil
          World War I ended in defeat for Russia

          No. Read the Versailles Peace Treaty that ended the WWI: Russia had the right to SUCH indemnities and reparations like France and England.

          Brest peace was recognized only traitorswhom no one has chosen or authorized, and the occupiers. Russia and the rest of the world did not recognize him.
          Quote: Civil
          Collectivization and industrialization were bought at the cost of the greatest sacrifices.

          It doesn’t work differently here, is it not clear, really.

          THE WHOLE world has been built and is being built, differently: is it not clear?
          Collectivization, which led to a famine unprecedented in the history of mankind in .... peace (!) Time, was not anywhere else.
          Quote: Civil
          So the lives were also set, according to the intensity of the battles.

          Terrorists should be stopped in Syria, not in "Nord-Ost"

          And for Surgut, do not say anything, but here it is: In Surgut, members of the ISIS “sleeping cell”, who were acquainted with Arthur Hajiyev, who injured eight people in the city center last summer, were detained. Three people were detained, small arms and an RGD-5 combat grenade were seized from them, Znak.com reports.
          Why didn’t they destroy them right away in Syria? Have you already reached Surgut? And besides Surgut and even events took place. What, and those, too, right on the spot in Syria, were not destroyed?

          PS But did it never occur to you that these persons could never even be in Syria?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 20 June 2019 09: 28
            -1
            Quote: Leshy1975
            And did it not occur to you that these people could never have been in Syria?

            You did not get the idea how many potential terrorists were destroyed in Syria before reaching Russia?
        3. Kronos
          Kronos 19 June 2019 13: 17
          +2
          The monarchist, as always, is not aware that England and France didn’t pay reparations. It was banal, but at the end they also started revolutions that the bourgeois hardly suppressed.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 20 June 2019 09: 17
            -1
            Quote: Kronos
            The monarchist, as always, is not aware that England and France didn’t pay reparations. It was banal, but at the end they also started revolutions that the bourgeois hardly suppressed.

            When will you go to school, huh?
            1. Kronos
              Kronos 20 June 2019 10: 03
              0
              I didn’t study at parish schools where you received education
        4. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 June 2019 16: 45
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich
          THE WHOLE world has been built and is being built, differently: is it not clear?

          It is just that the whole world carried the stage of the ruin of small peasant farms with the transfer of former peasants to the class of wage workers for the period of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries. And only Russia went its own way - because of which its industry at the end of the XIX century. - beginning of the twentieth century. and gasped. Moreover, they strangled her from two sides: on the one hand there were not enough workers (available handymen, by the way, often went to the village in spring and autumn to help the family), and on the other hand there was no one to sell mass production, because the community and small farms lived almost subsistence farming.

          Industrialization with collectivization was an attempt to fit in 10 years what other countries have been doing for a couple of centuries: enclosures, work houses, vagrancy laws, penal servitude.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 20 June 2019 09: 25
            -2
            Quote: Alexey RA
            The whole world simply carried the stage of ruin of small peasant farms with the transfer of former peasants to the class of wage workers for the period of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries And only Russia went its own way - because of which its industry at the end of the XIX century. - beginning of the twentieth century. and gasping for breath.

            The country was suffocating in the 1930s: remember, from what. Remembered?
            And in
            Quote: Alexey RA
            period XVII-XIX in
            freely and booming.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Industrialization with collectivization was an attempt to fit in 10 years what other countries have been doing for a couple of centuries: enclosures, work houses, vagrancy laws, penal servitude.

            NOBODY commissioned such experiments, NOBODY agreed on them and NOBODY was informed about the price of errors during their implementation.
            What did they hide? Were you afraid? They were rightly afraid, no one would forgive ....

            By the way, what are these
            Quote: Alexey RA
            fencing, workhouses, vagrancy laws, penal servitude.

            in the 1930s? And where, by the way, was collectivization still?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 20 June 2019 14: 37
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              freely and booming.

              Yes, yes, yes ... the results of this free and rapid growth were especially visible in 1855. Sailing ships and smoothbore guns against steam battleships and rifles (and then armored ships pulled up). Domestic steamboat frigates - either with English cars, or generally English-built.
              The allies, as soon as they realized that it was impossible to transport anything normally on the Crimean roads, in a couple of months they laid the railway from Balaklava to the forefront. And here, everything is just like under Ivan the Terrible and Peter: they loaded a bomb into a cart drawn by oxen and forward along a broken road. For the main base of the second fleet of the country does not have a railway connection.

              The end of the XNUMXth century came up - the picture in shipbuilding has changed little. The representative of the Morveda in Britain writes tearful letters about the need to increase the staff, because he does not have time to monitor all the orders of Morveda in British factories.
              Quote: Olgovich
              By the way, what are these
              fencing, workhouses, vagrancy laws, penal servitude.

              in 1930?

              Instead of fencing, we decided to collectivize. The result is the same: small farms are replaced by large, not fit For all this, the former peasants leave for the city, replenishing themselves with the working class. Along the way, the basic law charged labor to every citizen.
              Article 12. Labor in the USSR is an obligation and a matter of honor for every able-bodied citizen on the principle: "who does not work, he does not eat."
              The principle of socialism is being implemented in the USSR: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his work."
              © Costitition of the USSR 1936
        5. sunzhenets
          sunzhenets 20 June 2019 10: 39
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich
          The Brest peace was recognized only by traitors

          At the beginning of 1918, Soviet Russia did not have an army. Generally. The Red Guard was only created and was not an organized military force. The Germans could well have taken Petrograd. Therefore, the Brest peace was needed. Gained strength - all returned.
          Quote: Olgovich
          Russia and the rest of the world did not recognize him.

          What Russia did not recognize the Brest Peace ???
          Your position on the Brest-Litovsk Peace is reminiscent of Trotsky's - "no peace, no war." Monarchistrotskyist?
          Quote: Olgovich
          Collectivization, which led to a famine unprecedented in the history of mankind in .... peace (!) Time, was not anywhere else.

          Collectivization has led to an unprecedented breakthrough in the history of mankind in development. A famine in those years was seen in Europe and in America.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 20 June 2019 12: 28
            -3
            Quote: Sunflower
            At the beginning of 1918, Soviet Russia did not have an army.

            But Russia had: before the Soviet one.
            There would be no seizure of power, there would be an army.
            Quote: Sunflower
            The Germans could well have taken Petrograd. .

            So they took-Kiev, Minsk. So what? Gone, by order of the Entente.
            Quote: Sunflower
            Therefore, the Brest peace was needed.

            Read your leader: to save power! Not a country, but its own power!
            Quote: Sunflower
            What Russia did not recognize the Brest Peace ???

            All Russia, except for the Bolshevik, NIKEM unrecognized neither in Russia nor in the world of the government of traitors
            Quote: Sunflower
            Collectivization has led to an unprecedented breakthrough in the history of mankind in development.

            Yes, yes: the yield of 1913 reached only ..... after 40 years, as well as food consumption. "Achievements", yes!
            1. sunzhenets
              sunzhenets 20 June 2019 15: 04
              +1
              But Russia had: before the Soviet one. There would be no seizure of power, there would be an army.

              To the Soviet? Was the army of the Provisional Government a model of military power?
              Quote: Olgovich
              So they took-Kiev, Minsk. So what? Gone, by order of the Entente.

              It seems to me not entirely correct to pursue state policy, hoping for orders that the Entente will give to Germany in the future (maybe).
              Quote: Olgovich
              All Russia, except for the Bolshevik, NIKEM unrecognized neither in Russia nor in the world of the government of traitors

              The Bolsheviks preserved and increased Russia. The people recognized them, otherwise there would have been no victory in the Civil War. About the sale of Russia to white is known to everyone who was interested in the history of those times.
              Quote: Olgovich
              Yes, yes: the yield of 1913 reached only ..... after 40 years, as well as food consumption. "Achievements", yes!

              World War I, Civil, Great Patriotic War - these are insignificant factors that did not affect the economy? Magnitogorsk and Dneproges, Stalingrad, Chelyabinsk, Kharkov Tractor Plants, GAZ and Zaporizhstal, Moscow Ball Bearing Plant - not achievements?
              How many aircraft engines were built in the Republic of Ingushetia during WWI?
    4. 2224460
      2224460 19 June 2019 10: 08
      +9
      I support, the old "shnyaga" about the strategist-mnogohodovochnik, who is about to roll out a check and mate to the Omerigans. And yes, the author about the 1st Chechen, a hero soldier, politicians there were scum.
    5. shinobi
      shinobi 20 June 2019 07: 01
      0
      Yes, are you confident in your opinion? For some reason, no one remembers why the Yankees organized the "Syrian opposition" and, in fact, a coup d'etat. Assad just refused to pass pipelines through his territory on the terms of the West (USA), dared to demand a share. any pipeline that is not ours, it is direct competition with ours. Why is it important to explain? And why the Yankees stayed in the oil-bearing territories of Syria, where their barmales hold their teeth for every patch of sand.
  2. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 19 June 2019 05: 10
    +6
    why, I ask, I.V. Stalin fought in Spain?

    ...
    I left the hut
    I went to fight
    To land in Grenada
    Give the peasants ...
    1. 210ox
      210ox 19 June 2019 05: 49
      +21
      They fought to stop fascism. However, the powers that be in "some" European countries and not only were afraid of the possible victory of the republicans, supported by the USSR. With all subsequent ones.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 19 June 2019 08: 14
        +6
        Quote: 210ox
        those in power in "some" European countries and not only were afraid of the possible victory of the republicans supported by the USSR.

        The powers that be at that time were seized by a strange obsession called “Peace at any cost, even by closing our eyes to the arrival of the fascists, to the emergence of a dictatorship, to the violation of the Treaty of Versailles in some European countries”! The military-industrial strengthening of Germany and the pushing of Mussolini into the arms of Hitler is Chamberlain's direct merit!
      2. Olezhek
        19 June 2019 17: 19
        -4
        They fought to stop fascism.


        Let's not sing military pesni.
        On fascism and its stop, they were parallel.
        Like the wise Communist Party ..

        They defended their homeland
        These are slightly different things.

        And let the Fasiwm let the Americans stop
        All of Europe loves them.
        And they have Captain America with Superman.
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 19 June 2019 08: 06
      -6
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      To land in Grenada
      Give the peasants ...

      what Gave it?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 June 2019 17: 59
        0
        Quote: Serg65
        Gave it?

        Duc ... first
        The detachment did not notice
        Fighter losses

        And then
        New songs
        Invented life ...
        No need guys
        To poke the song
        Don't, don't,
        No, friends ...
  3. Bastinda
    Bastinda 19 June 2019 05: 12
    +3
    He is fighting with someone and for something.

    Perfectly said! laughing
    So what is our army fighting in Syria for? For whose interests, for what benefits? For someone's geopolitical ambitions?
  4. Cowbra
    Cowbra 19 June 2019 05: 22
    -3
    A very case-related article. I subscribe to every word. The author only forgot to DIRECTLY indicate: they fought in Syria, and most importantly, they trained - people from the Russian Federation, mainly from the mountains. Where would they go about winning in Syria? By the way, Turkey got into Syria precisely for this reason, but unlike us, having gotten a tough tooth (do burnt Leoperds remember everything?)
    1. Obi-Wan Kenobi
      Obi-Wan Kenobi 19 June 2019 07: 01
      +9
      A very case-related article.

      The article is the absolute nonsense of an inflamed brain weighed down by alcohol degradation.
      Infrequently on the network you will encounter such nonsense (this is not even a lie) and nonsense:
      Of course, in Syria V.V. Putin is playing a rather complicated game. Those. no nobility, no "open wide open", no "open cards". He is fighting with someone and for something.

      Or this one:
      As a result (precisely as a result): a closed society with a rigid political regime and an extremely low standard of living until the 70s of the 20th century (even under Khrushchev there were problems with bread!). For very different reasons, the superpower of the USSR could not provide its citizens neither freedom of movement (even inside the Soviet bloc!), Nor often essential goods.

      It’s necessary to think of this and present this “flight of thought” as a truth of a universal scale.
      I lived at this time and responsibly declare - this is a blatant and shameless FALSE !!!
      Apparently the author decided to "raise" the Tsar's rating before his telethon - lying on all federal channels. But it turned out, as in that saying: I did not pick it up, but scratched it.
      The author, with such third-rate articles, go straight to United Russia or to Kiselev in the transfer - write agitation. They are looking for you there with flashlights.
      And yet, in the 20th century there was such a famous nonsense, a certain Paul Joseph Goebbels (German: Paul Joseph Goebbels; October 29, 1897, Raidt, Rhine Province, Prussia - May 1, 1945, Berlin) - a German politician, one of the closest associates and loyal followers of Adolf Hitler. Gauleiter in Berlin since 1926 and head of the propaganda department of the NSDAP since 1930.
      So Goebbels’s name has become a household name, it is still associated with cynical shameless propaganda.
      Is the hint clear?
      1. Olezhek
        19 June 2019 07: 14
        -6
        And yet, in the 20 century there was such a famous liar, a certain Paul Joseph Hebbels

        By the way, yes, his name has become a household name.
        Really common noun.
        And that is typical - not at all accidental.
        This is not Suslov or even Solovyov
      2. certero
        certero 19 June 2019 07: 24
        +12
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        It’s necessary to think of this and present this “flight of thought” as a truth of a universal scale.
        I lived at this time and responsibly declare - this is a blatant and shameless FALSE !!!

        I also lived at that time. And I do not see any lies in the words: "I did not ensure freedom of movement even within the Eastern bloc." What, could you take a train or drive a car and go to Poland from Kaliningrad? Fuck you. Or fly to Cuba? There were many good things in the Union, but freedom of movement around the world was not among them. Even inside the country, there were a lot of places where it was impossible to go.
        So let's adequately assess the past. And then just the lie of the USSR and destroyed
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 19 June 2019 07: 54
          +6
          Quote: certero
          Even inside the country there were a lot of places where you could not go.

          They didn’t check into the hotel, if there was no travel certificate, go overnight to the station, what is Cuba.
        2. Fat
          Fat 19 June 2019 21: 07
          +2
          Quote: certero
          So let's adequately assess the past. And then just the lie of the USSR and destroyed

          Glasnost, the abuse of which, allowed lies to "emerge" was destroyed in the USSR.
      3. evgic
        evgic 19 June 2019 09: 01
        -5
        Well, firstly, being rude to the author is not a sign of a great mind, is the hint clear? Although some of the allegations in the article are highly controversial, one cannot but admit that GDP is a master of international political intrigue and it is very difficult to understand all its moves at once, at the same time several goals are pursued in different directions.
        With regards to the USSR, imagine I also lived in it, all that is written is true. Neither freedom of movement, nor the abundance of consumer goods was there. Wheat was purchased in the USA and Canada for a second. To buy a car, you had to stand in line for several years, and not the fact that you deserve it, or take from speculators 3 times more expensive. When we were living in the EAO, near China, we had alcohol, canned meat and canned fish from the products in the store. And that’s all. Bread once a week and was not enough for everyone. There has never been meat and milk. So the author still embellished, I can tell you how our soldiers lived in the garrison, generally tin. This, by the way, 1974-1978. The heyday of stagnation. It is not necessary to make a popular print from the Union, as from the Russian Empire, with all the advantages there were a lot of problems.
        To drag Dr. Goebbels to a place and out of place is a bad form.
        1. silberwolf88
          silberwolf88 20 June 2019 09: 18
          -1
          you somehow mixed everything in a heap and for socialism and the garrison ...
          I won’t waste time for the first ... I’ll only say one thing for the garrison ... the head of the garrison was apparently a complete Honduras who did not want to (and so I’ll go to the academy or be promoted) or simply incapable of organizing service and life (sometimes appointed those who could not manage their authority and not just the part or formation there) ... having experience in serving in SAVO, TurkVO and SibVO I can clearly say that order in the garrison and barracks is 90% commander ...
      4. Serg65
        Serg65 19 June 2019 09: 24
        0
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        Is the hint clear?

        Eco as a professional liberal-communist cookie lover pret then?
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        LYING!!!

        What is the lie?
        Soviet economists have always compared the GDP of the USSR with the GDP of Ingushetia in 1913. "We have increased the GDP of 1913 by 2%! URAAA COMRADES !!!
        With grain yield in 1913 in 8 centners per hectare, only in 1940 m NCC could proudly declare that this year's yield amounted to 7,9 centners per hectare! And that’s all! There were no more such crops! Starting from September 1953, every year the whole Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU proclaimed the course of the popular struggle for a steep rise in agriculture, but instead of a rise, for some reason, a recession turned out! Starting from the 1963 year, the USSR began to import large quantities of wheat and corn! And in 1983, in many large cities of the USSR, they introduced a system of coupons and business cards for the purchase of certain types of products and consumer goods! And where is the FALSE?
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        in the 20 century there was such a famous rascal, a certain Paul Joseph Goebbels

        belay So you are his distant relative ???? Well then!
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 19 June 2019 10: 07
          +1
          only in 1940 could the NCC declare with pride

          28 - 8,1
          37 - 9,6
          Such a primitive, such reasoning. So you can say
          1990 yields 19,5 kg / ha
          And in 2012 18,3 c / ha
          And make "meaningful" conclusions from this.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 19 June 2019 10: 43
            -2
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            Such a primitive, such reasoning

            Yes Yes Yes!!! Complete primitive! Only by what data, according to one data, the bins break, and according to others, cards are entered!
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            28 - 8,1

            If in the 28 year there was a high yield of wheat, then why in the 29 year did they introduce cards for bread? If in 37 the yield was 9,6 c per ha, then why was it necessary to double the retail price of bread and flour?
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            1990 yields 19,5 kg / ha

            Agree, it would be completely ridiculous in 1990 to compare GDP and productivity with 1913!
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            And in 2012 18,3 c / ha

            And how much wheat was purchased abroad in 2012?
            And in 2013-m 22,3 c / ha, so what?
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 19 June 2019 11: 23
              0
              what?

              and that it shows the primitive of previous comparisons. Like the following:
              If ... if ...

              If in 13 year the grain "was heaped up", why in the budget there are 7,5 million loans for seeding and aid to peasants? Equivalent to your statement in its primitiveness. Only people with a head and a conscience do not operate with such facts, but without a head or a conscience - already running.
              And how much wheat was purchased abroad

              announce the whole list, please. And then this is grabbing something apart from the big picture - uh ... what is it called ... manipulation and primitive?
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 19 June 2019 11: 37
                +2
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                If in 13 year the grain "was heaped up", why in the budget there are 7,5 million loans for seeding and aid to peasants?

                How is it with you there?
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                it is grabbing something apart from the big picture - uh ... what is it called ... manipulation and primitive?

                7,5 million courts - this is an aid to immigrants operating under the Stolopinsky reform. In the winter of 13, my great-grandfather left the hut in Voronezh province and went with his whole family to get the best share in Altai. Travel is free, for 2 hectares per male person in the family is free, agricultural implements are free, seed for a year is free, and a loan of 1000 rubles for 10 years is interest-free. This is free for great-grandfather, but for the empire denyuzhki and not frail!
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                This shows the primitive of previous comparisons. Like subsequent

                Oh yeah! When not living, then definitely primitive!
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 19 June 2019 12: 23
                  0
                  this is help to immigrants

                  Assistance to immigrants - separate articles (15 421 971 rubles out of 28 127 723 rubles of the total costs of resettlement)
                  Oh yeah! When not living, then definitely primitive!

                  Definitely. At least in a vein, at least not in a vein. Primitive. I can give you another example of such a primitive, can use where:
                  There are studies in which you will find the average per capita energy consumption of the peasantry in the Republic of Ingushetia.
                  And compare with modern energy consumption. Well, make a "conclusion" that there were more well-fed people in RI than now. Solid facts. And reasoning is primitive. But you like them.
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 19 June 2019 12: 25
                    0
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    There are studies in which you will find the average per capita energy consumption of the peasantry in the Republic of Ingushetia.
                    And compare, with modern energy consumption.

                    good Masterpiece !!!! Need to remember wink
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 19 June 2019 12: 39
                      0
                      Well, you see, I knew that you would like it. Use on health.
                    2. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 19 June 2019 18: 02
                      +1
                      Quote: Serg65
                      Masterpiece !!!! Need to remember

                      This is a classic:
                      By the power of imagination imagine what kind of housing estate will be created here. Only in it alone will 740 gas stoves be installed, that is, 740 times more than in the whole city until 1913.
                      ©
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 20 June 2019 09: 05
                        0
                        Alexey, a classic, this is when people (in this case, two specific people), not understanding the essence of what they heard / read (for an unknown reason - inattention, inability ...) begin to "humor", thoughtfully, with an obligatory share of condescension, "masterpiece" humor in one word.
                        Well, make a "conclusion" that in RI were more well-fed people than now

                        Doesn’t it bother you in the context of the following comments?
        2. Edward Vashchenko
          Edward Vashchenko 19 June 2019 12: 40
          +2
          GDP - this indicator did not exist in 1913, as in the USSR, was introduced for use in 1991 (proposed in 30-ies).
          There is nothing to compare here, the USSR before the war was a powerful industrial power, the GNP of 2 in the world, before the First World War a deeply agrarian country, with elements of industry.
      5. Cowbra
        Cowbra 19 June 2019 09: 52
        +1
        I did not live under Khrushchev, I lived later, so what do you want to tell me? About the standard of living and "a long, green, sausage stinks - an electric train from Moscow", or for freedom of movement inside even a block ?! No, it’s much harder to drive to Prague now, to drink beer than in the USSR!
        About the "difficult game" - why didn't you like it ?! There is a three-layer idea itself, a base in a strategic region, contact with Iran and Turkey - and they are partners in any way, discrediting the United States, weakening them and their positions in the region, eliminating their (anti-Russian !!!) proxies, eliminating openly anti-Russian terrorists and their training camps, advertising is the most effective military-industrial complex, moreover, the only possible one - the rest of the routes in the form of market competition by the United States have been blocked for us, the elimination of obsolete ammunition is cheaper to throw off than to blow up at a test site. by the way, and another carriage? !!!
        So what did you get from your objections? “You’re all true” - that’s what you said, it’s not to the author to Kiselev, but to you - to Yehu Matzah, they love such unfounded cries there!
        Pisi:
        So Goebbels’s name has become a household name, it is still associated with cynical shameless propaganda.

        By the way, a lie repeated many times - becomes true - Goebbels said ABOUT THE BRITISH PROPAGANDA, and THEY - re-told that this is his instruction — for the fascist, that’s also an indicator.
  5. samarin1969
    samarin1969 19 June 2019 05: 32
    -3
    Putin is not the "king of Winterfell" to "play his game." And he must speak the truth and speak to the people of Russia.
    In Syria, there is an interethnic, interfaith conflict where, as always, other countries intervened.
    Why should Russian guys die there, and not Jordanians, Turks, Egyptians, Israelis, etc.? ... This is their war.
    ps The author, you correctly pointed out the miscalculations of Russia's foreign policy in the twentieth century. But in Syria, things are no better. The same rake.
    1. Olezhek
      19 June 2019 07: 18
      -1
      Putin is not the "king of Winterfell" to "play his game." And he must speak the truth and speak to the people of Russia.


      Eddard Stark tried to be "the most honest."
      But something went wrong.
    2. Ka-52
      Ka-52 20 June 2019 10: 21
      -4
      samarin1969 (Konstantin Viktorovich Samarin)
      In Syria, there is an interethnic, interfaith conflict where, as always, other countries intervened.
      Why should Russian guys die there, and not Jordanians, Turks, Egyptians, Israelis, etc.? ... This is their war.

      politics includes allied commitments. Did not hear about this? 20 years ago we threw the Serbs who believed in us. Still ashamed. And the fact that the Serbs are now looking at the EU, and not towards the Russian Federation is understandable. I think I, in their place, would not have believed the betrayer twice.
      Throw and the only ally in the Middle East region - then probably you should forget about foreign policy altogether.
      Moreover, they go to war in Syria basically consciously. To send there, none of the military enlistment offices does not run after a snotty kid. IMHO, as soon as compassionate civilians start to hurt about where and for what their army is fighting, then at that moment the army ceases to be a fighting force. The war in Chechnya showed it perfectly
  6. Nitarius
    Nitarius 19 June 2019 05: 40
    -8
    and there is ..
  7. 210ox
    210ox 19 June 2019 05: 44
    +6
    “But really, why, one wonders, did I.V. Stalin fought in Spain? For what, excuse me, the devil? Further events showed that it would be possible to fight in Spain for 20 years, without straining and worrying about expenses. why not worry. "Well, this is generally a pearl of pearls .... Without straining and without incurring costs. Oleg, do you live in a parallel reality and in an alternative history?
    1. Olezhek
      19 June 2019 07: 03
      -7
      Further events showed that it would be possible to fight in Spain for the 20 years without straining and not worrying about expenses. And in general, not worrying about anything


      What's wrong?
      1. 210ox
        210ox 19 June 2019 08: 03
        +1
        Yes, about Belarus and the LAS forgotten, that’s not so .... yes
  8. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 19 June 2019 06: 22
    -3
    Better a bad world than a good war.
    1. Olezhek
      19 June 2019 06: 59
      -2
      Better a bad world than a good war.


      In the period of the Mongol yoke, Russia for 200 years did not wage external wars.
      Well, basically, the "lean world" took place.
      1. Yegorchik
        Yegorchik 19 June 2019 09: 31
        0
        Quote: Olezhek


        In the period of the Mongol yoke, Russia for 200 years did not wage external wars.
        Well, basically, the "lean world" took place.

        It is clear why you write such rash articles, you can see that you just love to lie, Russia, even as Alexander Nevsky fought at that time, is from that period.
        1. Antonina Ignatenko
          Antonina Ignatenko 19 June 2019 21: 16
          0
          Yes, at first I also remembered about him, but he fought back: the Teutons came to us. And it was about external wars.
      2. Edward Vashchenko
        Edward Vashchenko 19 June 2019 13: 00
        +1
        How so? And with Lithuania, the Order, the principalities among themselves - they are all separate states, but with the Tatars? What about the Battle of Kulikovo during the "yoke", apart from other trifles ...
        1. Olezhek
          19 June 2019 17: 37
          -3
          principalities among themselves - they are all separate states, but with the Tatars?


          Well, yes — there, the Baskaks traveled all over Russia, and the princes went to the Horde for shastali ...
          What kind of "external war" is there?
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            Edward Vashchenko 19 June 2019 17: 56
            +1
            You are wrong: Baskaks were canceled by the beginning of the fourteenth century in all Russian lands completely. Yes, and Baskam fought off periodically. Russia was a tributary of the Horde, but was an independent state organism, with its foreign policy.
          2. naidas
            naidas 19 June 2019 22: 22
            0
            1266 - 1282 The participation of Russian princes in the campaigns of the Golden Horde in the Caucasus, Byzantium, Lithuania
            1268 Campaign in Livonia and the victory of the troops of Pskov, Novgorod, Vladimir-Suzdal over German and Danish knights at Rakovor.
            The ancient Greeks also did not wage war of aggression, they were constantly engaged in a showdown between themselves.
            1. Olezhek
              20 June 2019 17: 34
              -1
              The participation of Russian princes in the campaigns of the Golden Horde to the Caucasus, Byzantium, Lithuania


              My cry. sad
      3. silberwolf88
        silberwolf88 20 June 2019 09: 20
        +1
        Olezhenka, you would read Lev Gumilyov at your leisure ... everything is written about it exhaustively ... the yoke never existed ... expand your horizons and do not duplicate what you don’t know ...
        1. Olezhek
          20 June 2019 17: 33
          -1
          Olezhenka, you would be honored by Lev Gumilev at your leisure ... there everything is exhaustively written about it ... there was no yoke


          Then I'd rather read Fomenko ... laughing
          1. silberwolf88
            silberwolf88 20 June 2019 18: 09
            +1
            well then Green)) ... by the level of awareness of history ... will be equal
    2. Fat
      Fat 19 June 2019 22: 07
      0
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Better a bad world than a good war.

      The phrase you reproduced is attributed to Cicero.
      He - "If we want to use the world, we have to fight."
      "Peace must be won by victory, not by agreement."
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 19 June 2019 06: 32
    +4
    The imperialist powers are waging war in Syria, for the interests of the ruling classes .. Russia also applies to them, the peoples of the countries from this war will not get anything, the rich will become richer, the poor poorer ... Transnational corporations will get rich ...
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 19 June 2019 09: 29
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      The imperialist powers are at war in Syria, for the interests of the ruling classes .. Russia also applies to them, the peoples of the countries from this war will not receive anything,

      And what did the people of the USSR and Russia, in particular, receive from the just wars in Afghanistan, Angola, Nicaragua, Vietnam, and in Syria, which were waged by a socialist, popular power?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 June 2019 18: 08
        +2
        Quote: Serg65
        And what did the people of the USSR and Russia, in particular, receive from the just wars in Afghanistan, Angola, Nicaragua, Vietnam, and in Syria, which were waged by a socialist, popular power?

        Like what? The eternal friendship of countries that have firmly embarked on the socialist path of development. wink Which ended with almost everyone, as soon as the USSR pumped.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 20 June 2019 07: 48
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Eternal friendship

          hi Welcome Alex!
          The only thing I can say only in Angola. The war in Angola allowed the 877 PMTO to be deployed in Luanda, which in turn secured the La Plata – Odessa commercial sea line and Soviet fishing areas in the Cape Verde Islands and South Georgia Island. Which in turn had a positive effect on the food program of the USSR during the grain embargo imposed by Carter.
  10. kig
    kig 19 June 2019 06: 50
    +6
    What I want to say about what I read ... it seems that we have already heard three times about the withdrawal of our troops from there in connection with a complete and final victory.
  11. wellaut
    wellaut 19 June 2019 06: 55
    +3
    Ah, how bad everything was and oh, what a great job! Deflection counted, to the author
  12. Reklastik
    Reklastik 19 June 2019 07: 18
    +6
    This was written by the victim of the policy of the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation, where an extremely high standard of living and an open democratic society compared to the Soviet ones are not different ... The idea of ​​the history of our country is in the style of comics ...
  13. kostik1301
    kostik1301 19 June 2019 07: 20
    +1
    The war in Syria is the war of GAZPROM for its incomes ................................ only whose lives?
  14. Boris55
    Boris55 19 June 2019 07: 25
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Egorov
    even under Khrushchev there were problems with bread!

    Khrushchev did everything for this so that we had problems and not only with bread.

    Quote: = Oleg Egorov
    And really, why, one wonders, I.V. Stalin fought in Spain? What the hell is it for?

    If the author does not understand "what the hell", then what to talk to him about?
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 19 June 2019 07: 38
      -2
      Quote: Boris55
      Khrushchev did everything for this so that we had problems and not only with bread.

      The shortage of bread under Khrushchev was created artificially - the party comrades tried, it was necessary to discredit Nikita Sergeyevich when Khrushchev was retired - there was no problem either with Khrushchev himself or with bread.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 19 June 2019 08: 24
        +2
        Khrushchev discredit? Himself is not funny? The only leader in the history of Russia, who is considered a fool.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 19 June 2019 08: 35
          +2
          You judge too categorically, he certainly wasn’t such, and what kind of people, party and its leaders were they who chose themselves as such a leader? He materialized from the air.
          By the way, the level of persecution of the Church under him can be equated with the persecutions that were under the Roman emperors, the memory of him, of course, remained more than bad.
          But, of course, he was not a fool, the man was smart and cunning, he would have had to direct his bursting energy in a different direction.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 19 June 2019 08: 37
            +5
            Sly and smart is not the same thing. He did nothing useful for the country, but apparently killed Beria.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 19 June 2019 08: 39
              +3
              Quote: EvilLion
              Cunning and smart are not the same thing.

              Clever, because Khrushchev left his cunning friends at the top of the party in these same duracs, and who after that is durak (s).
      2. Serg65
        Serg65 19 June 2019 09: 31
        +1
        Quote: bober1982
        there was no problem either with Khrushchev himself or with bread.

        what Hmm !!! Why then bought bread abroad?
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 19 June 2019 09: 36
          -1
          Quote: Serg65
          Why then bought bread abroad?

          I do not know.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 19 June 2019 10: 03
            +1
            Quote: bober1982
            I do not know.

            I already wrote in VO, in 73, 74, 75, white bread in the regional towns of most of the USSR was in short supply!
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 19 June 2019 10: 12
              -1
              I don’t remember this, these were more than calm years, and how to understand what it means .......most of the USSR ...., in all the republics there was paradise life - Ukraine, the Baltic states, Transcaucasia, Belarus, Central Asia, Moldova.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 19 June 2019 11: 02
                0
                Quote: bober1982
                in all the republics there was paradise life - Ukraine, the Baltic states, Transcaucasia, Belarus, Central Asia, Moldova.

                Take an interest in the "paradise life" in the Russian non-black earth, in the hinterlands of Altai and Krasnoyarsk Territory.
                The dissatisfaction of the inhabitants of the Union republics, especially in the Baltic states and Transcaucasia, is intolerable, the dissatisfaction of the inhabitants of the RSFSR is tolerable, and they did not tolerate such!
                Well, at the expense of Ukraine, the Dnepropetrovsk sect of the Politburo did not offend its wink
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 19 June 2019 11: 13
                  0
                  Quote: Serg65
                  the discontent of the inhabitants of the RSFSR is tolerable, and they did not tolerate such!

                  Yes, the impression is that everything was deliberately arranged.
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Dnepropetrovsk sect Politburo did not offend its

                  The Russians were "crushed" in the Politburo, the government was anti-Russian.
          2. Edward Vashchenko
            Edward Vashchenko 19 June 2019 13: 10
            +4
            Bread was purchased for livestock, the country was fully provided with its own durum wheat, by the way, unlike today, when the highest grades are not used in mass production of bread - not profitable. Who remembers bread in the USSR and now will not give to lie.
            Where are the cattle, pork, bread? for which fodder bread was purchased. Like the debaters about how bad life was in the USSR, forgetting the terrible war that ate 5 or 6 five-year plans! 25 years of productive years, 80% of pigs in the occupied territory, cattle - I don’t remember from memory, but in the same quantity. And they do not grow back in an hour.
            So add 1945 + 25? Plus spending on defense, maintaining a huge unproductive force, the problems of which the United States did not have. So we didn’t spend money on defense at all because of the word “lived well”, as soon as we began to build one nuclear submarine and the economy cracked at the seams. I'm exaggerating, but it is.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 19 June 2019 14: 01
              +1
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              Bread was bought for cattle,

              Edward, bread 1-2-3 classes for cattle ????? For cattle, the Soviet Union bought corn .... also in large quantities.
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              debaters about how bad life was in the USSR forget the terrible war that ate 5 or 6 five-year plans!

              Well, yes, gaps in the brain convolutions of the Soviet leadership, even 40 years after the Victory, can be attributed to war! It is so convenient! Especially Khrushchev’s rural reform, the enlargement of collective farms, state farms, the square-nested method in the Arctic ... war, what can you do !!!
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              the content of huge unproductive power, the problems of which the United States did not have

              Why? After all, a planned economy is the most advanced economy in the universe!
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              I exaggerate, but it is so

              Yes, you are right in your own way!
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 19 June 2019 18: 11
                0
                Quote: Serg65
                Especially Khrushchev's rural reform, consolidation of collective farms, state farms, the square-nested method in the Subpolar region ..

                Grain corn in the northern regions ... Moreover, if we were talking about corn "for silage", then no one would have said a word. But no, they demanded it "for grain."
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 19 June 2019 09: 30
      -1
      Quote: Boris55
      then what to talk about with him?

      But really ... what the hell ????
  15. bober1982
    bober1982 19 June 2019 07: 30
    -4
    The article is quite interesting, by the way the presentation is competent, I mean the very structure of the article. One may disagree with something, did not like something, but on the whole - a plus. Like the big plus of our army for the Syrian company.
    1. Antonina Ignatenko
      Antonina Ignatenko 19 June 2019 21: 23
      +2
      Do you know something about the Syrian campaign? It seems that nobody really knows anything about her. And it’s stupid to think that it was all over there.
      1. naidas
        naidas 19 June 2019 22: 27
        +1
        Quote: Antonina Ignatenko
        Do you know something about the Syrian campaign?

        I suppose ours won and fulfilled the main tasks — NABUKO should not be, the smuggling of Turkey with fuel is over.
      2. bober1982
        bober1982 20 June 2019 07: 42
        0
        Quote: Antonina Ignatenko
        Do you know something about the Syrian campaign?

        I know that the forces of just one mixed aviation regiment more than successfully carried out combat missions, with minimal losses, while using the most modern ammunition.
        Quote: Antonina Ignatenko
        And it’s stupid to think that it all ended there.

        It all starts there.
  16. EvilLion
    EvilLion 19 June 2019 08: 23
    0
    there was still the domination of Georgian aviation in the first phase of the fighting


    To the best of her knowledge, she made the entire 1 departure.

    And really, why, I ask, I.V. Stalin fought in Spain? For what, sorry, damn? Further events showed that it would be possible to fight in Spain for the 20 years without straining and not worrying about expenses. And in general, not worrying about anything.


    It is believed that the end of the Korean War was a rare foolishness from Khrushch. Like everything that Khrushch did. The USSR could lead a sluggish PvP in the air there, losing a maximum of fifty pilots a year (MiG-15 lost 333 pieces from all causes, some obviously just broken, some on the ground, the air force clearly died more annually in accidents), At the same time, hundreds of thousands of Chinese, who otherwise would still have died of starvation, would have kept the million American group. There would simply be no Vietnam, and no threats in Europe. Well, or the Yankees would have tired of all this, and they would have piled them up to 60 for years, and there would be no South Korea, a hotbed of plague in eastern Eurasia. There would be one Korea, and now it would live as a modern Vietnam, and not so that half of the peninsula under sanctions cannot buy fuel and grubs in the world, while also containing a huge army. Vietnam surely would be better, maybe the Sino-Vietnamese war would not exist.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 19 June 2019 08: 55
      +5
      Khrushchev how sideways to the Korean War. The intense phase under Stalin ended. The ceasefire agreement was signed in July 1953, when a truly collective leadership existed in the party and the state and a tug of war went between Malenkov and Khrushchev. You would have made claims to Malenkov, he was the initiator of the change in the foreign policy.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 June 2019 18: 14
      -2
      Quote: EvilLion
      To the best of her knowledge, she made the entire 1 departure.

      Participants in that war say there were more sorties for Georgian aircraft.
      But judging by the losses of our aircraft from their own air defense, Georgian airplanes were most often mistaken for ours (especially since both sides flew on the Su-25). With corresponding consequences.
  17. ALARI
    ALARI 19 June 2019 08: 33
    0
    Here the author compares Syria with Spain and draws some parallels, but I want to remind you that after Spain there was Finland and the result was almost 100 thousand. corpses.
    1. Olezhek
      19 June 2019 17: 24
      +1
      but I want to remind you that after Spain there was Finland and the result was almost 100th. corpses.


      And it was this (according to some historians) that prompted Hitler to attack the USSR.
      He found the Red Army weak in the experience of the war with Finland.
      If we had taken Helsinki in 40, Barbarossa in 41 might not have been.
  18. rocket757
    rocket757 19 June 2019 08: 42
    +1
    "Play with bad cards" and not lose until, and in the future, does not look very sad.
    option requiring careful consideration.
  19. Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 19 June 2019 09: 13
    0
    I’m a little dumbfounded - I always liked the author’s articles, but here it’s not so ...

    And why start to “destroy” it in the strongest and most fortified place? There were no other options?


    Constantinople and the straits have never been the most fortified place of the Ottoman Empire. In 1913, taking Odrin, the Bulgarian army was opposite the defenseless Constantinople and immediately received two ultimatums - from Austria-Hungary and Russia, not to enter the city. The proposal of the Bulgarian government was to take the city and pass it to the Russians, but no, we don’t want to ....

    And even in 1945, after inhuman victims and phenomenal victories, no one wanted to "give" Eastern Europe to Stalin.


    Author ... do you think you "deserve" a gift? What are you entitled to in Eastern Europe? Well, well ... but won't the Poles be right in their suspicions of militarism and views on foreign lands ...

    As for the fact that these same Eastern Europeans "deserved freedom": they just did not deserve it.


    This is your understanding. You do not decide who deserves freedom, who does not, and who received it. I am simply stunned by such frenzied militarism, imperialism and universal impudence. It is clear why Eastern Europe treats you like this - from hatred to apprehension.

    Own one sixth of the world. But UTB is not enough for you - give us also Eastern Europe, so that they do a mess there, as at home ...
    1. Patrick
      Patrick 19 June 2019 09: 54
      0
      "" "Well, well .... but will not the Poles be right in suspicion of militarism and views on foreign lands ..." ""

      Only in the 18th century there were three divisions of Poland + a series of revolts. In 1920 there was a campaign to Warsaw.
      Therefore, the Poles, recalling their history, have some reason for some fears.
      1. 16329
        16329 20 June 2019 09: 53
        -1
        We must not forget the events of the 16-17th century, the most acute phase of rivalry between Moscow and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which resulted in the solution of the Polish question in the 18-19th century, and Tukhachevsky’s campaign in Warsaw in 1920 began with the capture by young Poland of most of Belarus and Ukraine in 1919 -1920, the Poles occupied Kiev.
        It’s generally accepted, when speaking about Russia's aggressiveness, to forget the reasons for this “aggressiveness”
    2. Patrick
      Patrick 19 June 2019 10: 00
      +1
      "" "... I am simply stunned by such frenzied militarism, imperialism and universal insolence ..." "

      With a strong desire, the Russian-Turkish war of 1877-1878 can also be called “rabid militarism, imperialism and universal impudence.” And there, as a result of this war, some new countries appeared on the map of Europe, which had never existed before. , these "smelly nests" should have been left to the Turks for another 40 years.
    3. Patrick
      Patrick 19 June 2019 10: 54
      0
      "" "You own one sixth of the world. But this is not enough for you - give us Eastern Europe too, so that they make a mess there, like at home ..." ""

      When the USSR was a sixth of the land. Now there is a seventh of the land. So what? Does the realization of this fact somehow overshadow your life? - Well, this is solely your personal difficulties, and besides you they are of no interest to anyone.

      Eastern Europe? - We don’t need Eastern Europe, already about 30 years both: we got rid of this CMEA and the Warsaw Treaty, and we crossed ourselves with joy. I personally am only glad that you have other patrons, partners and sponsors.

      Where is the mess? Do you have a mess? “I can still believe that.” And we have been around for about 20 years, it’s quietly. There are problems, but over time we will deal with them.
      I have met figures somewhere: in 1990 there were 9 million people in Bulgaria, but now there are only 7 million left. That is, 2 million people (22% of the population) have disappeared somewhere. Probably, they died during the war "for order." Therefore, let it be better for us to have "our mess", and you try to survive there with your "order".
      1. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 19 June 2019 13: 24
        +1
        in 1990 there were 9 million people in Bulgaria, but now there are only 7 million left. That is, 2 million people (22% of the population) have disappeared somewhere. Probably, they died during the war "for order."

        You would be ashamed to write about the deceased.
        Bulgaria
        1990 8 718 289 people
        2017 7 075 947 people
        Migration (the sum of the average over five-year periods from 1990 to 2015) is 868,13 thousand people.
        There are 774 people who "died" in Bulgaria (212%)
        Russia
        1990 148 292 000 people
        2017 144 496 740 people
        Migration (the sum of the average over five-year periods from 1990 to 2015) +10 645,11 thousand people.
        There are 14 people who "died" in Russia (440%)
        The calculation is superficial and some factors are not taken into account, but they influence, in the most favorable scenario, by tenths of a percent.
        1. Patrick
          Patrick 19 June 2019 13: 49
          -2
          It is easy to notice with a naked eye that the topic of migration and the population of the KGBE here is neither primary, nor even secondary. I just wanted to show that over the past 30 years, the population of Bulgaria has DECREASEDLY DECREASED. And that’s it.
          And the tenth percent that affect something there, but are not taken into account, consider pzhst WITHOUT ME.
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 19 June 2019 14: 22
            +2
            ... migration and population ... is not nor the main, not even secondary.

            Я just wanted to show, what ... population Bulgaria STRONGLY DECREASED

            There is no dissonance? Then all the questions disappeared.
            1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Keyser soze
        Keyser soze 19 June 2019 19: 55
        0
        Where is the mess? Do you have a mess? “I can still believe that.”


        Well, look, dear ... it's a mess, here it can't happen for us:



        They cannot arrest us for nothing.
        Police are not allowed to wear masks.
        A power does not have the right to hire private guards to beat people.
        We have the right to protest and no one can forbid us.
        We often protest and get our way — small and large.
        We can easily write everywhere that the government is out of thieves and we won’t go to Siberia.
        We do not have half a million Rosguards to protect the oligarchs and the government.
        Our government and power are replaced every 4 of the year.
        A gypsy working in a vegetable shanda, in a nearby supermarket receives a minimum of 350 euros. How much do you earn?

        Where's the mess ?!
        1. Patrick
          Patrick 19 June 2019 20: 50
          -2
          Are you very happy with all of the above? I'm happy for you. Just keep in mind that this (listed) may be of some value ONLY FOR YOU. And I sneeze deeply - the police have the right to wear masks or not. The police do not concern me at all. As well as many of you listed.

          I don't quite understand, what do you care about the National Guard? It existed before, only it was called differently - "Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR (Russia)". And I am sure that you also have departments with similar functions. So what? I go to the site with the BG domain and start propaganda there?

          Well, with regard to the protests and what you are trying to achieve there ... it is very doubtful that your protests can change anything in real life. Therefore, you are running away from your country further than you see.

          Does the government change every 4 years? So what? Is this something changing in your life? - Nothing, absolutely.

          How much do I earn? What do you care? Parenting simply does not allow educated people to ask other people questions about income, religion and marital status. But you do not belong to educated people.

          350 euro? So what? One "bare" figure of income does nothing without knowing the structure of compulsory expenses. Minus taxes, minus rent or rent, minus medical insurance = 10 euros in the balance.
        2. Ka-52
          Ka-52 20 June 2019 10: 46
          -3
          We can easily write everywhere that the government is out of thieves and we won’t go to Siberia.

          here every second branch on the VO is full of screams about the government of thieves, oligarchs, etc. Something from the window I do not see trains with exiles going to us to Siberia laughing And what does our Siberia give you no peace? The population of Siberia is no less than Bulgaria. Are all the gamblers really? laughing
          A gypsy working in a vegetable shanda, in a nearby supermarket receives a minimum of 350 euros. How much do you earn?

          Yes, more than your cyan. About as much as I pay child support payments
    4. Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov
      Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov 19 June 2019 17: 40
      +1
      In vain I.V. Stalin allowed you to "keep" Southern Dobrudja, which the Tsar Boriska received from Adolf Schicklgruber.
    5. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 June 2019 18: 20
      0
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      This is your understanding. You do not decide who deserves freedom, who does not, and who received it. I am simply stunned by such frenzied militarism, imperialism and universal impudence. It is clear why Eastern Europe treats you like this - from hatred to apprehension.

      Indeed, it was necessary to stand on the border of the USSR - and watch the Allies get out. And East Europe would live with the Germans, would drink Bavarian.
      Or throw out the Germans, put up an occupation administration and force everyone who was an ally of the Reich or worked for it to sign an extremely democratic "Chancellor Act". smile
  20. Gardamir
    Gardamir 19 June 2019 09: 46
    +10
    Allegedly, the success involved in terry anti-Sovietism. This article is an insult to many VO visitors. I lived in the Union for almost 30 years, I remember those times, well, you can’t lie so frankly
  21. Roman070280
    Roman070280 19 June 2019 10: 41
    +3
    Quote: evgic
    it is impossible not to recognize that GDP is a master of international political intrigue and it is very difficult to understand all its moves at once, at the same time several goals are being pursued in different directions.


  22. Brutan
    Brutan 19 June 2019 11: 05
    +4
    Vladimir Putin - the nail of the problem
  23. Patrick
    Patrick 19 June 2019 11: 52
    +2
    Cool little article - a typical stuffing on a fan.

    "My thoughts are my horses": Syria, collectivization, World War I, Khrushchev, Egypt, Chechens, Spain ... Obviously not enough A. Nevsky, Minin with Pozharsky and Suvorov with miraculous heroes :)). Well, the comments are appropriate - some about Thomas, some about Erema.

    As you know, "ruin is not in the closets, ruin is in the heads." Although, I think this stuffing was done intentionally.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 19 June 2019 12: 01
      +1
      Quote: Patrick
      Well, the comments are appropriate - some about Thomas, some about Yeryom.

      And why are you so surprised that - for the first time you read the comments, this is not the conversation we started about Suitcase and pension reform, wait.
      1. Patrick
        Patrick 19 June 2019 13: 56
        -1
        Not. I’m not much surprised.
        But I don’t bother with the comments here and therefore, I read them lightly.
        This is very harmful.
        And I won’t even wait for the bazaar about the suitcase :))
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 19 June 2019 14: 02
          +2
          Quote: Patrick
          But the local comments do not bother too much

          Well, why, after all, it’s interesting to comment on it.
          About Suitcase - this is novelty, but I just can’t hear about Mannerheim’s board, some kind of physical disgust.
  24. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 19 June 2019 12: 07
    +3
    I do not understand? Have we already won in Syria? And the political, economic and military dividends are such that the salaries and pensions of citizens have increased significantly, and friends are signing up for us, is there a line from different states?
  25. Far B
    Far B 19 June 2019 15: 27
    +5
    Et cho nonsense? What is such a victory in Syria? We won there several times and even sent troops out. Cho again? And the problems of the Union with an extremely low standard of living - what kind of pocket? Oh, these tricks, oh, these magicians
  26. Olddetractor
    Olddetractor 19 June 2019 17: 10
    +3
    And really, why, one wonders, I.V. Stalin fought in Spain? What the hell is it for?

    In 1936, the USSR exported 510 tons of gold from warring Spain - almost the entire gold reserve of this country. According to some historians, the proposal to take gold for storage to the Soviet Union came from I.V. Stalin in response to requests from the Republican leadership of Spain to increase the supply of Soviet weapons to the city of Madrid, the capital of the country surrounded by troops of General Franco.
    1. Olezhek
      19 June 2019 17: 35
      +1
      In 1936, the USSR exported tons of gold from 510, which is belligerent in Spain, practically the entire gold reserves of this country. According to some historians, the proposal to export gold to the Soviet Union came from I.V. Stalin in response to requests from the Spanish leadership of the Republic to increase supplies of Soviet weapons.


      But no one else on the planet was going to supply them with weapons.
      NO ONE
      Even for gold.
      Such things bro. request
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 June 2019 18: 31
      +3
      Quote: Olddetractor
      In 1936, the USSR exported 510 tons of gold from warring Spain - almost the entire gold reserve of this country.

      More precisely - almost the entire remaining gold reserve. For before that, the Prime Minister of the Republican Government, Jose Hiral, ordered the removal of part of the gold reserve to France, which as a result received 193 tons or 27% of the reserves.

      As for the USSR, he received 510 tons of gold of the 900th test or 460 tons of pure gold of the 999th test. And he was only the keeper of Spanish gold - all operations with him went at the request of Madrid.
      And since the civil war is not cheap, the Spanish government issued as many as 19 applications for the sale of gold in a year and two months: for 374 tons of pure gold in 1937, for 52 tons in January-April 1938, and for reserving 30 tons gold as collateral for a loan of $ 70 million. And Spain has 4 tons of pure gold.
      1. Town Hall
        Town Hall 19 June 2019 18: 34
        -1
        And to whom exactly did the money go from the sales of this gold? Which countries?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 20 June 2019 14: 44
          0
          Quote: Town Hall
          And to whom exactly did the money go from the sales of this gold? Which countries?

          Aunt Vika slanders that almost 30% was received by the USSR in payment of deliveries to Spain. The rest went to purchases outside the USSR through Poland, Czechoslovakia, the USA and Mexico.
          In total, 469.8 million US dollars were earned for the gold sold, 131.6 of which were spent in the USSR.
          As commissions and fees, the Soviet side took 2.1 percent of the total, and 1.2 percent were recovered as payment for transportation, smelting and refining of gold. As a result, the Soviet side received about 3.3 percent of the total value of gold, or 14.5 million US dollars. About three hundred thirty-five and a half thousand US dollars were transferred in favor of a subsidiary of the USSR State Bank - the Paris bank the Banque Commerciale pour l'Europe du Nord (Eurobank). Representatives of the republican treasury paid from Eurobank for supplies of materials purchased in Brussels, Prague, Warsaw, New York, and Mexico City.
  27. Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov
    Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov 19 June 2019 17: 32
    -2
    I liked the article. However, "the topic of boobs is not revealed" wink : what, nevertheless, are the real goals of the Syrian company, in your opinion?
  28. free
    free 19 June 2019 18: 45
    +3
    The author hastened, wrote an article on his knee.
  29. Moreno
    Moreno 19 June 2019 19: 02
    +2
    I don’t feel like leaving a comment. Nothing about the article. To write, I would write.
  30. Sergey Sergeev_4
    Sergey Sergeev_4 19 June 2019 19: 09
    +1
    About Spain correctly, it was possible for a long time, given the hobbled Spanish gold reserve. The actions of the Spanish government to sell the last gold by Venezuela are somewhat brushed aside.
  31. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 19 June 2019 19: 25
    +1
    About money and Syria. I feel sorry for the money, billions exported from the country by effective managers and invested in strengthening the Western economy. Yes, everything exported from the country works against the country: we export non palm oil, we export strategic raw materials.
    As for Syria. Yes, the costs were there, but justified. Russia shook its muscles, it was reasonable and necessary due to the international situation. In my opinion, the whole world understood that Russia is not a rug on which anyone can wipe their feet. This is what the Western "partners" diligently tried to convince the world about. It didn't work out.
  32. New Year day
    New Year day 19 June 2019 22: 06
    +2
    Cognitive dissonance- what is the connection between Afghan and Chechnya?
    1. Olezhek
      20 June 2019 17: 15
      0
      Cognitive dissonance- what is the connection between Afghan and Chechnya?


      Keep thinking that no. sad
  33. Alex66
    Alex66 20 June 2019 06: 17
    0
    In the WWI, we fought for faith, the king and the fatherland, in WWII for the Motherland, for Stalin. Americans for the American dream, for the dollar that will allow them to rise to their feet. What are we fighting for now, for the gas, oil pipeline from Qatar to Europe to go through Syria and not ruin our oligarchs, at the same time risking unleashing the TMV?
  34. Sidel45
    Sidel45 20 June 2019 07: 06
    0
    Stupidity and another attempt to raise a falling rating you know who you are.
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. Lapunevsky
    Lapunevsky 20 June 2019 08: 48
    -5
    Honestly, we are already fed up with such articles as here and on "Vzglyad", scribbled under one carbon copy with one single purpose - to justify the government in front of an increasingly dissatisfied people. Calm down with a mantra - that everything is for the good of you, people. And the fact that in Russia the life of more than half of citizens has been deteriorating from year to year for the past 5 years, then that inflation and extortions from the population are growing, that young people are degrading, officials are stealing billions for a long time and further down the list - is that all for the sake of the people? How tired of such articles by storytellers. They are fighting in Syria for the people of Russia. And in Russia who will fight for the people? ...
    Yesterday, drunken youth from a neighboring lyceum, a crowd of 15-20 people, started a fight with residents right in the courtyard of our house on the playground. Before that, they broke the children's swing. They called the police, several residents called them. By the way, these "kids" poured a pepper spray into the face of one of them. For a comment and a request to leave. It was at about 20:00, active "showdowns" lasted more than half an hour. The police arrived at about 23:20 pm (all this time they called the police, answered - wait, the order was sent "). When everything was over and everyone fled, and the residents of the houses dispersed the hooligans on their own. 3 hours 20 minutes went on call. Question - for Who is the National Guard in the country? To protect citizens? Or against them - to disperse rallies dissatisfied with the government? Maybe it's time not to protect the Syrians for the sake of their peace and tranquility, but their citizens?
    1. Patrick
      Patrick 20 June 2019 09: 29
      0
      "" They called the police ... "" "," "The police have arrived ..." "", "" For whom is the National Guard in the country? "" ",
      "" "Maybe it's time not to protect the Syrians ..." "

      For a start, it would be nice to understand WHAT THE POLICE IS DIFFERENT FROM ROSGVARDIA "in the country."
      What is their departmental subordination, main functions and tasks.
      And it’s coolly bent with the Syrians - Are there Kolokoltsev’s police fighting? Or Rosguard Zolotov?
      I forgot about the Venezuelans in a hurry.

      zhYrno throw in. NIZACHOT.
      1. Lapunevsky
        Lapunevsky 20 June 2019 14: 46
        0
        To begin with, I don’t remember that you and I would switch to you, and I don’t even remember that someone would give you the right to be rude to me:
        zhYrno throw in. NIZACHOT.

        For a start, it would be nice to understand WHAT THE POLICE IS DIFFERENT FROM ROSGVARDIA "in the country."

        Next - Rosgvardiya is the central command and control body of the National Guard of the Russian Federation (VNG of Russia), created on the basis of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia.
        MIA! For special people I will explain - I wrote about Rosgvardia in the general context of the protection of citizens and law and order. This is one of their tasks. Like the police. So, you are our smart. In 23: 20 arrived at the UAZ Patriot just Rosgvardiya. So on the chevrons written by them.
        And with the Syrians cool bent - There Kolokoltseva police are fighting?

        In Syria, fighting MO, SSO, and so on. And there are patrolling zones of de-deployment and so on, military police and other RUSSIAN paramilitary units. For the special I will clarify my point - there are Syrians to protect and defend forces and time, and in their own cities the police will not wait for the call. And now please, save me from your boorish manner of communication. You are not on that site ran where it is allowed.
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  37. Isstvan
    Isstvan 20 June 2019 09: 45
    0
    Russia has two troubles and can’t get anywhere!
  38. akunin
    akunin 20 June 2019 10: 52
    +1
    in Syria V.V. Putin is playing a rather complicated game. Those. no nobility, no "open wide open", no "open cards." Fighting with someone and for something
    key, the last part of the phrase.
    A good sign is that the Western partners are "frantic with rage." And again you say that it is expensive for money? Well, two Chechen ones were much more expensive.
    .Directly I see crowds of violent madmen marching in bedlam. The Chechen war was civil, with relatively understandable goals (unity of state), and whether it was won out taking into account the situation in the North Caucasus, and the war in Syria? Personally, I don’t understand its goals, base in hmeimim? So far, it has not been possible to end the barmalei, have the Maghreb been driven out to Tunisia?
  39. lopvlad
    lopvlad 20 June 2019 11: 41
    0
    Collectivization and industrialization were bought at the cost of the greatest sacrifices.


    any construction and development of an empire in any country does not happen without the greatest sacrifices and exertion of power. But any ordinary people always forgive the authorities for this.
    The people never forgive only those sacrifices and their extermination which are not used for the development of the country but for the wealth and fatness of the elite, when the whole country is in ruin and extinction.
  40. aleksandaravin
    aleksandaravin 20 June 2019 11: 53
    -1
    In Syria, the glory of Those Lord, for now, that - DO NOT BE BLESSED! Another War Won by Us!
    1. Garris199
      Garris199 20 June 2019 16: 02
      0
      It depends on what goals were set. If the goal was to restore Syria within its borders, then no. But it was a little real initially. But in any case, in general, this is a successful operation and valuable experience for the army. The debt to the bearded for Chechnya was returned very clearly. And if the United States considers it necessary to destroy, bomb states for the sake of its interests, the interests of its corporations, then we all the more have the right to protect the states with which our interests and those of our corporations are connected. The forces are just not enough (both financial and military) to pursue a more aggressive policy in the BV and Putin understands this perfectly. He plays with those cards that are available and must be said quite skillfully.
  41. Ml. Sergeant
    Ml. Sergeant 20 June 2019 12: 30
    -1
    Putin well done what else can I say
  42. vsdvs
    vsdvs 20 June 2019 15: 16
    0
    (even under Khrushchev there were problems with bread!) - these problems because of Khrushchev started, and then they started buying bread abroad.
    1. akunin
      akunin 20 June 2019 17: 50
      +1
      Quote: vsdvs
      (even under Khrushchev there were problems with bread!) - these problems because of Khrushchev started, and then they started buying bread abroad.

      and corn? if not for Khrushchev, in my childhood I would not have corn sticks and cereal. laughing
  43. Captain3317
    Captain3317 20 June 2019 19: 56
    0
    Not an article, but nonsense .... The author ate something wrong.
  44. Smirnov Mikhail
    Smirnov Mikhail 23 June 2019 17: 37
    0
    1. I wonder where the author saw "his land"? Most people seem to have nothing personally in Russia, no land, no factories, no shares, nothing ..

    2. And what's the problem of joining the armed (or not) opposition, and making some money? Again, there will be a utility to pay for. Not?

    3. For the sake of what is better to fight "in Granada" than "near Stalingrad"?
  45. yehat
    yehat 24 June 2019 12: 41
    0
    Quote: Leshy1975
    eat it Albanian militants, unlike Syrian better

    their roof is tougher - the UN and NATO.
  46. Arkon
    Arkon 25 June 2019 21: 32
    0
    Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
    After seriously helping the Americans in Afghanistan (the antiterrorist coalition), they supported the “Arab revolutions” and Washington’s actions to overthrow the “socialist” secular regimes, surrender Gaddafi, geopolitical defeat in Ukraine, under the conditions of zugzwang, started a war in Syria.
    The war, of course, is fair from the point of view of mass perception.
    But, according to many, the next Kapkah, by the way, the war, which has not ended.
    Very similar to the beginning of the PRC, after a series of: real and diplomatic Tsushim.
    The newly emerged problem of Kosovo speaks of the complete impotence of our foreign policy system, which is increasingly weaker in real response to challenges and threats, except for internal PR, of course: on the central TV of all adversaries, we have already won with one hand.


    What happens to VO? Who put more than 20 pluses to this comment without a single reasonable argument? What is this bunch of bots?