Questions to the new American rifle

112
We write a lot about what is being developed here, and sometimes we forget about those weapons that are being developed "from them." This is partly due to a lack of information. Partly banal lack of interest in these developments. But it is necessary to look, at least in order to correctly assess the level of the idea and, accordingly, a possible threat.





Today we will talk about small arms. To be more precise, about the new concept of automatic weapons for special operations forces and other special forces.

We are interested in this assault rifle because even in the announcement from the developers it says directly:
"The assault rifle is designed to successfully hit targets using Russian and Chinese body armor to protect. The weapon, possessing low weight and length (half of the prototype - МХNUMX rifle), is capable of firing ammunition with double initial speed ..."


Attentive readers have already understood why the future weapon is meant for "specials." Machine M4 initially adopted as a weapon designed for special operations forces. That is why the M4 was shortened, and became easier than the original prototype M16А2.



Based on the declared by American developers, we can assume the weight and length of these weapons. Accordingly, 1,4-1,6 kg weight without magazine, 380-420 mm - length, depending on the position of the butt. Agree, really significant, especially for the MTR.

According to US sources, the rifle is being developed at the US Army Laboratory (Army Research Laboratory, ARL) at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland. Which is quite logical. Indeed, the Aberdeen branch of the laboratory (there are five of them in the US) has personnel and production capabilities for developing such weapons. It is there that the trophy weapons are being studied, and not only small arms, but also artillery. It is there that technological and analytical studies are carried out in the interests of the US Army.

Alas, we could not find the designation of the prototype of the new machine gun. Nameless or classified. But the confirmation of our findings on the appointment could. One of the developers of the new weapon, ARL Lab engineer Zach Wingard, told TechLink:

"The goal is to get a very small high-power rapid-fire rifle that would be adapted for cleaning rooms or for use in confined spaces."
"... for embarking and disembarking from vehicles or underground shelters, as well as for use in creating systems with remote control."


The rifle will be used telescopic cartridge. From here it becomes clear that the development is being carried out according to the Next Generation Squad Weapon-Technology program already known to us.

Recall that the first of the five planned for the rifle program, the US Army had already received in March 2019. Most likely, it was a 6,5-mm rifle CS (6,5 CS Carbine), designed to replace the M4 family (2016 year).



The length of the barrel of the new assault rifle 10 inches (approximately 26 cm). Barrel conical shape. Designers are developing a new breech, which is natural when using a reinforced cartridge. The estimated initial bullet speed is 2900 feet per second (880-890 m / s).

Due to what American designers are planning to increase the initial speed of the bullet? What do the Americans say about this?

Through the use of telescopic ammunition. It was he who allowed to create a barrel with a tapered hole. Thus, the excess pressure in the chamber is converted into kinetic energy along almost the entire length of the barrel. This is the basis of the principle of obtaining a high initial velocity with a short barrel.

It is clear that when using a more powerful ammunition, and, consequently, increasing the pressure in the chamber, a more bulky breech is needed. In the new rifle is supposed to use a new design - with a screw bolt lock instead of bolt.

We also have some test results for this stem. According to TechLink, when tested, a conical 24-inch conical barrel withstood a total pressure from 65 to 100 thousand psi, and the initial bullet velocity reached 4600-5750 feet per second. If you compare these figures with the original model M4, it turns out almost twice as much.

In general, information about the development of a new assault rifle appeared in February 2018 of the year.

It was then that in the American edition of Task & Purpose, highly respected by us for objectivity, the American colonel, head of the development department of the army headquarters Jeffrey A. Norman spoke, who spoke about the new cartridges.

And already then it became clear what the Americans want from the new rifle. The main thing is to ensure the armor penetration of Russian body armor at a distance of up to 600 meters.

“During the past 10-15 years, we have focused our efforts on developing weapons that attack unprotected targets. Today, a new threat has emerged from countries like Russia and some other countries. We have focused on developing weapons that attack protected targets. We need weapons that attack defense over long distances. For example, in Afghanistan, where battles are fought over long distances, from the top of one mountain to the top of another. "


Moreover, Norman directly called the creation of a new weapon a stage of confrontation between the great powers (Russia and China). This is a "great power competition".



The development of new small arms systems was carried out and is ongoing. Improved protection, therefore, there is a need for a new weapon. This is an axiom that everyone understands. Weapons live their own lives. He is born, lives, dies.

New US assault rifles are really needed. As they are needed, and our army, Chinese, Indian, Brazilian and all other armies.

As for the specific sample, even in what we know today, one can find a lot of strange things. Provide armor penetration at such distances is possible. And how to ensure the target range with such a short trunk? How to eliminate the return of a rifle with such a powerful cartridge, which also increases many times with automatic shooting? And so on ...

Perhaps the designers of small arms really worth thinking in this direction. Especially since the Americans have officially announced the launch of the NGSW program in the fall of 2021.
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112 comments
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  1. +3
    11 June 2019 12: 21
    Short and powerful?
    Take our Tabor. All the pleasures for your money fellow
    Easily remodeled for any cartridge.
    Here, for example, Tabor under 7.62 NATO:
    1. +15
      11 June 2019 12: 29
      What is there in Tavor? The usual bullpup in a standard cartridge, with an inhuman price.
    2. +4
      11 June 2019 12: 29
      Write to Trump.
    3. +3
      11 June 2019 12: 30
      Expensive, however. I read somewhere that the price of Tavor "bites". Moreover, this unit is full of various connections - bolts, fasteners, etc., especially with regard to the connections of the body kit, plastic. Then the question becomes to the terms of operation.
      1. +6
        11 June 2019 12: 43
        Expensive - yes. And gunsmiths are needed for normal maintenance.
        But incomplete disassembly-assembly is simple. And for the full - gunsmiths. One gun passed - another received.
        But: 1) high accuracy - the barrel and Picatinny rail are made in the form of a single non-separable factory part-block. With the highest parallelism.
        No sighting needed.
        2) compactness with a long barrel, usual for rifles.
        1. 0
          11 June 2019 13: 34
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Expensive - yes.

          first minus
          Quote: voyaka uh
          1) high precision

          and in TK there are no conditions about high accuracy !!!
          ps
          There are also questions for the bulpap, if such a system were perfect, then it would be implemented in the US Army for sure!
        2. +5
          11 June 2019 14: 03
          Tavor - a successful rifle, but only a part of the problems is fixed on it
          the problem of recoil in the queue, or at least a more or less stable position, has not been solved.
          But to create a weapon that provides complete compactness, rate of fire, accuracy, penetration power by traditional methods will not work. Something else is needed.
          AEK made balanced automation, and a number of other prototypes also used radically new solutions. But in the brand they did nothing but layout.
          I personally believe that it is impossible to provide a sum of characteristics without a radical paradigm shift - for example, making jet cartridges or some kind of railgun, in which the momentum will be small and the energy of the bullet will be large.
          1. +2
            12 June 2019 13: 17
            Quote: yehat
            whose momentum will be small, and the energy of the bullet is large.

            The laws of physics have not yet been deceived by anyone ...
            1. 0
              14 June 2019 17: 29
              Quote: Den717
              The laws of physics have not yet been deceived by anyone ...

              That's right. But...
              But a bullet weighing 5 g and at a speed of 950 m / s has an energy of 2,256 kJ and a pulse of 4,76 Nm, a bullet weighing 9 g and a speed of 700 m / s has an energy of 2,205 kJ and a pulse of 6,3 Nm. The second bullet has less energy, and the momentum is greater - and everything is within the framework of ordinary mechanics. So at first we consider, then we write.
              1. 0
                14 June 2019 17: 33
                Quote: astepanov
                The second bullet has less energy and more momentum

                So not all forces, compensation devices in the system are taken into account. There are no miracles.
                1. 0
                  14 June 2019 18: 18
                  Quote: Den717
                  not all forces, compensation devices in the system are taken into account. There are no miracles.

                  We are talking about the output characteristics: speed and mass of bullets. And what about compensation devices and some kind of forces? Leaving the barrel, the bullet does not remember these devices, its energy and momentum depend only on mass and speed. In general, learn the ABC book: az, beeches, lead .. By the way, the momentum of the machine after the shot (recoil) is equal to the momentum of the bullet, but the energy is hundreds of times lower. Do you also consider this a miracle?
                  1. 0
                    14 June 2019 20: 30
                    Quote: astepanov
                    And what about compensation devices and some forces?

                    I agree, a little messed up with the power of recoil. It happens. On the main question, too, there are no miracles. Just momentum and energy are calculated according to different formulas. In one, the quadratic dependence, in the other, direct. No wonder.
      2. +9
        11 June 2019 13: 05
        Quote: Okolotochny
        ... this unit is full of various connections - bolts, fasteners, etc., especially with regard to body kit, plastic connections.

        1. +4
          11 June 2019 15: 23
          Very convenient service.
          You just need to remove the shutter and you can clean and lubricate everything.
        2. +2
          11 June 2019 22: 11
          Mom, dear! Well, at least vacuum welding is not used in the daily maintenance of this Tavor. Sanchez knows how to raise a bunch of questions with one roller hi
          1. +2
            11 June 2019 22: 27
            hi It's not me ... No.
            ...Alexei ? raised smile
            Quote: Okolotochny
            ... this unit is full of various connections - bolts, fasteners, etc., especially with regard to body kit, plastic connections.
            1. +2
              12 June 2019 11: 48
              Sanchez, but for the sake of interest, how many details are obtained with a complete disassembly? Roller Class! After all, techies have an Axiom - the more connections, the greater the probability of failure. And Tavor is no exception.
              1. +3
                12 June 2019 21: 14
                hi ... There are many details. I won’t tell a figure ... But he’s not done on his knee smile ... Everything was calculated, numerous tests were conducted ... Yes, and no one wants to make unsatisfactory (for their own purposes) weapons. And no one will buy ......... hi
                1. +1
                  13 June 2019 12: 33
                  Yes, I’m not saying that Tavor sucks, it’s a very worthy unit. But AK is Better, more reliable, IMHO.
                  1. 0
                    13 June 2019 14: 35
                    ... AK Better, more reliable, IMHO.

                    hi ... In any way ... and Tavor analogues (simpler good ) are available (under 7,62 × 39 mm, 5,56 × 45, 5,45 × 39)
                    A-91 is a Russian automatic grenade launcher complex developed at KBP in the early 1990s. There is an export version 5,56A-91, characterized by the use of 5,56 × 45 mm cartridges instead of 5,45 × 39 mm, as well as a modernized version of the A-91M (the difference in these samples is only in the difference in the installation of a 40 mm grenade launcher).
      3. +3
        11 June 2019 19: 52
        Then the question becomes the terms of operation
        The question there is not only to the above. In the case of the cartridge power stated in the article, the size and weight of the barrel, what is the survivability for shooting and accuracy of the battle after shooting, for example, 1000 rounds? There the barrel wear will be frantic.
        1. +1
          12 June 2019 11: 51
          I am not only for wear. With constant operation with powerful cartridges - what will happen with all the brackets, pins, bolts, screws! This is like F35 - before each shooting a full scan of this device.
    4. +1
      11 June 2019 12: 34
      Hello warrior! I really want to know about Tavor. How he has implemented multipatronism - you need to select the mass of the moving part + barrel and gas outlet + some methods against recoil like counterweights ... The difference in the barrel energy of the cartridge 5,56 and 7,65 NATO is 2-3 times different. The question is, how does he relate to dust and dirt?
      Amer’s conical trunk is very cool, of course. And how does he start to clog up after 3 horns?
      Still - most importantly - in the 70s we already had a program on sub-caliber cartridges for small arms ... And we did something - for example, for pistols ...
      1. +2
        11 June 2019 12: 55
        I’m afraid I won’t be able to answer professionally - I didn’t use Tavor, I served with a long M-16. My son had a M16 carbine, but he shot from Tavor, he liked it.
        And his friends Tavor, in general, praised. Although our landing brigade stubbornly does not want to go to Tavor, staying with the M4.
        I once tried to ask the paratroopers on the train "why not Tavor?", But did not get any intelligible explanation: like "we are so used to it," "who knows."
        1. +6
          11 June 2019 13: 41
          By the way, after the Georgian conflict, Tavor was studied by our specialists, because a certain number of them were thrown by Genatsvali.
          1. +7
            11 June 2019 14: 30
            There is no secrecy. Tavor many armies. Take, as a rule, for special forces.
            The rifle is expensive. But "compactness-power-accuracy" for well-trained soldiers (in the presence of smart gunsmiths in the army) outweigh the disadvantages.
    5. +3
      11 June 2019 13: 00
      All the pleasures for your money


      If you shoot them around the corner to the left, then around the corner to the right, you can guaranteedly get a turn of hot cartridges in the face.

      Thank you.

      hi
      1. +4
        11 June 2019 13: 08
        Tavor has options for righties and lefties (in Israel there are many lefties). Accordingly, the liners fly either to the left or to the right.
        I did not hear anyone getting the cartridges in the face.
        1. +2
          11 June 2019 14: 28
          In Tavor, you can rearrange the details to reflect left or right, but for this you need to disassemble the weapon. Just in the course of shooting, you can’t choose where the shells will fly at Tavor.

          And you need to shoot from around the corner, then left or right, and here you absolutely do not care if you are right-handed or left-handed.
          You shoot from the other shoulder - the shells fly into the face of the face. If you shoot "from your" shoulder, but "not around your corner," you get out half of the cover.

          Good target.

          hi
          1. 0
            2 September 2019 15: 20
            Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
            You shoot from the other shoulder - the shells fly into the face of the face. If you shoot "from your" shoulder, but "not around your corner," you get out half of the cover.

            If you use a "flying away" sleeve, then this problem is removed, but they do not have it.
      2. +1
        11 June 2019 13: 42
        I think there is a reflector. The sleeve is thrown forward.
        1. 0
          11 June 2019 14: 36
          The sleeve is thrown to the side. Either left or right - depending on the established direction. The direction of the ejection of the sleeve can be changed on the Tavor, but not during the shooting, but for this you will have to disassemble the weapon.

          The sleeve flies to the side - either in the face of the face, or on the wall and ... in the face of the face, because bullpup is bullpap
          1. +3
            11 June 2019 15: 52
            Horse, I looked Kaklovsky TAVOR - the sleeve flies sideways and down. In the face does not fly.
            1. -1
              11 June 2019 16: 29
              And now from the other shoulder.

              laughing
    6. Oct
      +2
      11 June 2019 13: 51
      Does Tavor have an initial bullet velocity of 1700m / s?
      1. 0
        11 June 2019 14: 29
        It was his ancestor in South Africa.
    7. +2
      11 June 2019 15: 35
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Short and powerful? Take our Tabor. .... Easily remodeled under any cartridge.
      :

      Is such an option possible?
      1. +4
        11 June 2019 15: 42
        Of course it is possible. It looks impressive.
        You can always come up with something better. drinks
    8. +4
      11 June 2019 17: 34
      Quote: voyaka uh
      capable of firing ammunition at twice the initial velocity ... "

      The initial speed of all M16- / M4 rifles according to the instruction of FM 3-22 is from 2970 to 3250 fps (feet per second), that is, from 905 to 991 meters per second. Consequently, the new rifle should have an initial speed of between 1810 and 1982 m / s - like the best tank BOPS.
      Maybe? Theoretically, yes. Moreover, the Americans claim that they raised the pressure in the barrel of this rifle right up to the pressure parameters in the tank barrel.
      But we read further this opus:
      The planned initial bullet speed is 2900 feet per second (880-890 m / s).

      ?! And where is the "doubling"?
      in testing, the conical 24-inch conical barrel withstood total pressure from 65 to 100 thousand psi, and the initial bullet speed reached 4600-5750 feet per second. .

      Ah, somewhere in the tests ... Apparently, the ultimate load before the rupture of the barrel. But the rifle is 880-890m / s!
      Due to the use of precisely telescopic ammunition. It was he who allowed to create a barrel with a conical hole.

      And the Germans back in World War II made cannons with a conical bore for a NORMAL, NOT TELESCOPIC munition. And they shot, you know ...
      By the way, the "hole" happens only in ... well, everyone understood ...
      in the American edition of Task & Purpose, highly respected by us for its objectivity,

      It is necessary to watch Americans less in their mouths and at least sometimes turn their heads on. lol
      1. +1
        12 June 2019 13: 22
        Quote: Svateev
        It is necessary to watch Americans less in their mouths and at least sometimes turn their heads on.

        The guys tore the foreign language article, not understanding the essence ...
    9. -1
      11 June 2019 19: 59
      X95 is better !!)))
    10. -2
      12 June 2019 13: 13
      a dreamer, generally a tavor is not yours, from the word at all and this is because of cho not taking into account that he is a homogeneous ordinary.
    11. 0
      12 June 2019 13: 55
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Short and powerful?
      Take our Tabor. All the pleasures for your money fellow
      Easily remodeled for any cartridge.
      Here, for example, Tabor under 7.62 NATO:

      So easily and naturally, the discussion of the topic of the article about the "new" American rifle turns into an advertisement for a Jewish craft under a combat machine gun. Learn marketing, rookies.
      1. +4
        12 June 2019 14: 35
        I don’t know why everyone is so caught up in discussions for this Tabor.
        I was just joking, but there was such a violent reaction. fellow
        Even bunta supported this brand with a quote post. laughing
    12. -1
      13 June 2019 09: 05
      About 7 years ago (when I registered here) a man who served in Israel told me that Tavor is a terrible cal. I remember his words: "A stump, an aiming range of no more than 150 meters." How can you not sell you substandard in Estonia: " Leonid Apanansky, a Tallinn Jew, arrived in Israel at the end of 1992. The contract was signed in January 1993. The assortment turned out to be much wider than what was initially said.The Israelis sold the Estonians rocket launchers, Uzi submachine guns, cannons, mortars, communication devices , body armor The total amount was $ 50 million.

      However, in February 1994, Estonian media reported that part of the armaments and military equipment, totaling $ 4 million, was defective. The Commander-in-Chief of the Defense Forces, Alexander Einseln, hastened to announce that the prime minister had not informed him of the conclusion of the deal. It turned out that the Estonians received Soviet weapons that Israel captured in the war.

      Razi Dotan, who was the sales director of the arms company IMI at the time, insists that the Estonians got exactly what they wanted. But David Ivry, who was then the general director of the Ministry of Defense, told the publication that he did not remember anything about this deal. “This information is nowhere to be found except in DELFI https://rus.delfi.ee/press/mk_estonia/top-skandalov- v-estonskoj-armii-ot-afery-s-pokupkoj-oruzhiya-do-dedovschiny? id = 64986402
      1. 0
        13 June 2019 09: 10
        The barrel length of the Tavor is exactly the same as that of the M-16. So "Obrubok" is compactness. With the same aiming range as the M-16.
        The guy, I believe, shot without optics. Usually firing at the IDF is conducted at 150 m. Hence his thesis is about 150 m.
        1. -1
          13 June 2019 09: 11
          I don’t remember that.
  2. +1
    11 June 2019 12: 43
    And the initial speed / armor penetration? But they want all in one, and that heaped, and powerful, and compact, and BC more and easier.
  3. 0
    11 June 2019 12: 57
    what 600 meters ??))) It is also written there - CLEANING THE PREMISES. With what joy will the brave s suddenly engage in battle in open territories ??? In general, I want Money.
  4. +2
    11 June 2019 12: 58
    There is a suspicion that it is possible to go broke only on telescopic cartridges there. Moreover, this is a new "non-standard".
  5. +1
    11 June 2019 12: 58
    That’s about the cartridge used in more detail ... and feet - in SI.
  6. +4
    11 June 2019 13: 08
    Quote: voyaka uh
    ... But: 1) high accuracy - the trunk and Picatinny rail are made in the form of a single, non-separable factory part-block.

    1. +5
      11 June 2019 14: 34
      Thank you for the video! I remembered my youth .... not with Tavor, of course, but with M-16. How many moved around the thorns ... from the knee, then lying fellow
      1. +1
        11 June 2019 22: 07
        Quote: voyaka uh
        ... with the M-16. How many moved around the thorns ... from the knee, then lying:

        hi ... Is there a house? .. M-16 and a bucket of cartridges fellow smile
        ...

        1. +4
          11 June 2019 22: 18
          drinks Once, half of Israel had M-16s lying under the beds.
          Or, even worse, they stood in the hallway, like umbrellas in England.
          And a magazine with cartridges, of course.
          Bucket-not-bucket, but many had a spare "personal" magazine with cartridges.
          And with me. I wore it in the service not in the pocket of a pouch, along with 7
          others, but in a shoulder bag (on a "rainy" day).
          When they wrote off from the reserve, I handed over everything "temporarily confiscated" from the army
          imperceptibly back. fellow
      2. 0
        28 June 2019 03: 27

        remembered one photo
    2. -1
      11 June 2019 22: 16
      Super! This "Picatinny rail" is by far the most important and central detail in any weapon! Our 125-mm tank guns still do not have it: (Disgrace! We urgently need to raise the question! wassat

      Although it is worth noting that the Chinese bullpup liked something. Given the potential scale of their army, this is a serious claim ..
      1. +3
        12 June 2019 15: 55
        Here is the Chinese bullpup.
        And the Picatinny rail is there.
        And optics
        Everything is like in adults ...
        3 million released.
  7. -1
    11 June 2019 13: 09
    Mattress Wishlist has little to do with reality.
    Hollywood rules! Yes fellow laughing
  8. +9
    11 June 2019 13: 10
    "I am tormented by vague doubts", the mechanism reminds all the same M16 (M4).
    And the old demotivator, maybe not entirely correct, for jokes.
    1. +1
      11 June 2019 14: 21
      The demotivator took it. laughing
      By the way, I noticed - the brand in melee is one hindrance.
      1. +2
        11 June 2019 15: 27
        Why? He normally shoots at point blank range.
        1. 0
          11 June 2019 15: 41
          I meant using it as a cold weapon. You can’t even intercept him like a club - he is fat on all sides. Of course, such a remark is worthy of a smirk from a Westerner in the 21st century, but my friend and classmate, who was in melee in Afghanistan, would not grin.
          1. +4
            11 June 2019 15: 47
            For 70 years, in Tzahal there has not been, as far as is known, not a single melee. Probably because we shoot solitary. Ammo is not scattered. And at the last moment, there is always something to meet a jihadist running with knives.
            Hand-to-hand fighting occurs in 99% of cases when both sides shoot all the cartridges in excitement.
            1. -1
              11 June 2019 15: 52
              Quote: voyaka uh
              For 70 years, in Tzahal there has not been, as far as is known, not a single melee.

              I believe you.
            2. -1
              12 June 2019 00: 37
              Do not consider this as non-respect. Tzahal shoots solitary - why does Tavor need automatic firing? Why did the Germans in the 2nd World War come up with Sturmgiver? Consider ,, hand-to-hand ,, a relic - advise in Tsahal to cancel it when preparing soldiers. I can only guess the author. fire is needed to shoot towards the enemy, seeing poorly at the same time (not at the shooting range, the enemy also shoots at you). Auto mode fire line separating the civilian from military weapons. Usually, all experienced fighters are advised to shoot in short 2-3 rounds in bursts. hi
              1. +1
                12 June 2019 12: 12
                1) There is now a cutoff mode. This is the correct regime. We didn't have it on the M-16. We were taught: breathed in, letting the air out of the lungs, held our breath (during the dashes it is very difficult), took aim, "one-two" (two bullets),
                let out some more air, adjusted the sight, "one or two."
                And the next breath.
                2) They still teach melee, but - by inertia - everyone understands that it is meaningless. When we were young, we bought ourselves daggers (for our own money in our "military shop"), sewed special pouches for it. Then they left all the daggers at home. Much more useful is a spare "personal" magazine with cartridges "for a rainy day" - an emergency supply.
                Just in case of melee.
                And I had one - clean in a plastic bag, 29 rounds. In a shoulder bag a pouch.
                1. +1
                  14 June 2019 20: 08
                  Why should a soldier, melee, prepare? The guy after the demobilization goes to dances in ,, alien area ,,. Acquainted with a girl dancing. They are approached by 2-3, an aborigine, and they offer the guy, to go out and talk, - what should the guy do? Can use ,, personal ,, shop for ,, rainy day ,, (start shooting)? Just a question - in Tzahal learn to dig in using MSL? hi
                  1. +2
                    14 June 2019 21: 18
                    1) Showdown in dancing is not our reality.
                    2) We have stony soil - any shovel breaks. You can dig
                    only a hoe. Trenches dig engineering parts - equipment.
                    There are mini excavators. Or ordinary.
            3. +3
              12 June 2019 21: 31
              Quote: voyaka uh
              For 70 years, in Tzahal there has not been, as far as is known, not a single melee. Probably because we shoot solitary. Ammo is not scattered. And at the last moment, there is always something to meet a jihadist running with knives.
              Hand-to-hand fighting occurs in 99% of cases when both sides shoot all the cartridges in excitement.

              There were melee. In 1967, during the capture of the Old City of Jerusalem, some wrote about melee during the cleansing of Syrian fortifications on the Golan Heights.
  9. +1
    11 June 2019 13: 27
    for me, so Americans are looking for an analogue of the VAL and / or BCC with a short barrel (i.e. without a silencer).
    1. +1
      12 June 2019 05: 08
      Type Val they have something else. M4 SURG.

    2. -2
      12 June 2019 07: 40
      The shaft is still hovny, they can use m4 with subsonic 300blackout, more precisely a lot.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  10. 0
    11 June 2019 13: 31
    Both on - individual automatic weapons made in USA ordered to live long? laughing
  11. +1
    11 June 2019 13: 33
    Quote: voyaka uh
    barrel and Picatinny rail made in the form of a single non-separable factory part-block

    What do you smoke at your gas station in Haifa? laughing
  12. +1
    11 June 2019 14: 37
    Op-pa, judging by the description, the Americans remembered about the experiments of the German arms engineer German Gerlich with high-speed ultra-armor-piercing bullets ??! However, at the Aberdeen training ground, and in the 30s of the last century, tests of the miracle rifle Gerlich-Gray were carried out, so there is nothing to be surprised at all!
    Yeah, the new is really the well-forgotten old! Moreover, at a new technological level, ammunition and threaded conical trunks (radial forging of trunks on a mandrel during the time of Gerlich was not used) will probably not be so expensive in mass production and it can work!
    What can I say ?! Purely engineering-admired by the solution to this difficult design and technological challenge!
    It turns out that American designers-gunsmiths by no means "rest on the laurels of the M-16 rifle and its modernizations-modernization, weighting" and, without false pride, constantly learn new things, not forgetting the old and unfading testament of the famous Czech gunsmith Krnk (when - I knew his flowery quote by heart, because our oldest domestic gunman Vladimir Ieronimovich Markevich took it as an epigraph to his book about the history of firearms, but now, briefly, meaning in his own words) - “to create a new weapon, it is necessary to thoroughly study the history of weapons and those created by predecessors "!
    If the Americans manage to launch the described rifle into mass production, then it will be a qualitative leap and a very formidable weapon (although at first there will be "shoals" of some flaws, but this is fixable, the American engineering school, if objectively, has always been one of the exemplary and gave many examples of outstanding engineering structures, mechanisms and machines!) - now Russian gunsmiths, if they "slept in nature" and there are no "super-secret homework", will have to very quickly and very tensely catch up - in the same way, alas, no other there is no "tricky" alternative (IMHO, of course winked )! request
    1. +1
      11 June 2019 18: 50
      There are big doubts about the rifling in the conical trunk. Those. Gerlich did them, but what they worked is not a fact, because (narrow!) Driving belts, on the one hand, should be folded on the differences in barrel diameter, and on the other, not allow the bullet to break from the rifling under high pressure
      1. 0
        11 June 2019 20: 28
        Once, in the late 70s and early 80s, for the first time, from fiction, learning about Gerlich's work, I began to gather information in crumbs and got carried away by his ideas of breaking armor with bullets of ordinary caliber, worked out my own solutions, purely theoretically. smile
        As far as I remember, how many years have passed, cutting in Gerlich's conical trunk was of progressive steepness, which also complicated and increased the cost of production! In the muzzle of the barrel, at the exit, the channel was cylindrical, already with a constant pitch rifling.
        The task is quite complex and time-consuming, but solvable, especially at the modern level of technology!
        The gas exhaust system of automation will be very cumbersome in this case, therefore, a barrel return system is preferable. Screw (in the sense of a piston, if in the artillery and the old fashioned way!) Locking is not the only option for locking the channel of such a highly loaded barrel, but the most technologically advanced, in general, and quite time-tested!
        The news (hardly fake!) That the Americans are starting the mass production of such rifles is very, very disagreeable and this high-quality gap must be urgently overcome (all the more, it is possible!), Otherwise it will cost tens and hundreds of thousands of additional lives of Russian and Chinese soldiers "if something happens"!
        1. +1
          12 June 2019 07: 06
          You just understand the design correctly: first, compression, and at the end, at a constant diameter with "folded" belts, the main coating of the bullet is included in the rifling work. However, Gerlich's rifle had three sections in the barrel and only the middle one was cylindrical.
          As for the automatic with the recoil of the barrel, for portable weapons, in terms of automatic fire, this does not look very good.
          Well, here is an excerpt:

          In 1932, a rifle was tested at the Weapons Testing Range, manufactured in 1928 by Halger in Kiel, Germany under the designation Halger, 280 HV Magnum. By number 280 is meant a caliber in thousandths of an inch (of the order of 7 mm).
          The barrel, receiver, bolt and magazine are made at the Mauser factory in Oberndorf. The barrel length is 723 mm, the barrel with the receiver has a mass of 2338 g, the bolt is 500 g, the mass of the rifle is 4452 g. The barrel has four right rifling. For test firing, three types of cartridges were used (with bullet masses of 6,4; 9,3 and 11,7 g), manufactured by the Rhine-Westphalian Joint-Stock Company of Explosives "Utendorfer" in Nuremberg. They are based on the cartridge case of the .280 Ross cartridge, in which, apparently, an enhanced powder charge is equipped.
          During the tests, after the 400th shot, the bolt began to open with effort, and after the 500th, it completely stopped opening with the hand and was opened by hitting the handle with a wooden hammer. According to his study, influxes and hardenings of metal on the locking parts were discovered. That is, the locking elements are actually riveted with excessive returns! And this is in almost the most powerful rifle locking mechanism of the time! These failures were eliminated in the workshop, after which the shooting was continued. However, after an additional 400 shots, the shutter again ceased to function. Attempts to open it led to the shutter handle breaking off. In addition, the left locking emphasis of the combat larva failed, one ejector broke down, the second crumbled out. When firing the capsules of some cartridges, unable to withstand the pressure, fell out of the cartridges, leading to a breakthrough of the powder gases back.
          Thus, the rifle withstood only 900 shots, and without repair, it functioned half as much. This meant that such weapons were simply unsuitable for military use.
          1. -1
            12 June 2019 09: 32
            Thank you, dear Prodi, for the information! In my book, V.I. Markevich, in my opinion, was also written about the experiments of G. Gerlich ?!
            I myself was once engaged in technical translations and therefore I think that, in that scanty information on the American rifle, the taper of the barrel is mentioned precisely as a distinctive feature, and not about its entire design and "cylindrical nuances" ?!
            In addition, modern materials make it possible to achieve optimal parameters of bullet compression, dividing the functions of its parts into "leading" and "driven", making the central part in the form of a ready-made sub-caliber "projectile" made of hard alloy ?!
            Regarding the breakage of the lugs (in those days, these are usually two stops and an additional one in the area of ​​contact of the reloading handle with the corresponding section of the receiver cutout) of the traditional rifle bolt - so it is not for nothing that this news emphasizes that the locking is done in an artillery-like manner - "screw way "(presumably, as in piston tool locks with multi-thread sector thread ?!)!
            Capsules of "silent cartridges", which are under high "working pressure" for a long time, are mounted in such a way that they are guaranteed, and without dismantling ("falling out"), withstand it! In the 90s, near-weapons magazines wrote that they were supposedly Americans (as if they themselves did not have such cartridges ?! winked ) cannot comprehend this "secret of primers" of cartridges for the PSS pistol, which they got during the collapse of the USSR, but I think that this is from the category of "urapatriotic quirks" of the authors of such "stories" ?! winked
            Once again, if the American gunsmiths have developed (to satisfactory performance and mass production) the "conical" ideas of Puff and Gerlich on an ultra-high-speed armor-piercing bullet (and it seems that this is so, because there is nothing unrealistic about it!), Then this news is very Bad (although, from a purely technical point of view, regardless of aggressive global politics and the militaristic inclinations of the United States, one can admire such an engineering achievement)!
    2. +1
      11 June 2019 20: 05
      Quote: pishchak
      If the Americans manage to launch the rifle described in mass production, it will be a qualitative leap and a very formidable weapon

      And what a price! Wah! With such a price, they will simply be obliged to defeat everyone.
      Quote: pishchak
      now to Russian gunsmiths, if they "slept in kind"

      Well, why did you decide that someone overslept something? As history shows, our inventors are also excellent.
      1. -3
        11 June 2019 21: 31
        This is exactly what I see "at the exit" from these "excellent inventors" throughout the post-Soviet years and does not instill such excellent optimism in their ability to solve conceptual technical problems, alas! winked
        Although I have always been in favor of the "glass half full" rather than the "glass half empty"! smile
        "Bronze" masters procrastinate the same, still Soviet, "improved designs", and young talents - "students of the legendary gunsmiths" also do not shine - all the same re-songs of "old songs about the main thing" ?!
        Although, among the young, Ivan Kozlov distinguished himself for the better with his pistol "Boa constrictor (in the modern version)" - if he also "goes into production" and successfully "solves the inevitable shoals" of production and operation, then he will indeed become a Designer, if not "bronzes"! wink
        But from this news, about a really conceptual breakthrough, I got sick, our enemies (it seems like now we can not call them "partners" - the masks were dropped on June 7 ?!) in their hands can have a very effective lethal weapon.
        1. +1
          11 June 2019 23: 12
          Quote: pishchak
          "Bronze" masters procrastinate the same, still Soviet, "improved designs", and young talents - "students of the legendary gunsmiths" also do not shine - all the same re-songs of "old songs about the main thing" ?!

          The main thing is that they don’t clean the barrel with a brick - this is the main thing
          Quote: pishchak
          in the hands can provide a very effective deadly weapon.

          How effective is it? Two, three, five times? In addition to the high muzzle velocity of a bullet from a short tapered barrel and a "screw lock", everything else is a mystery. And getting out of a short trunk at a distance of 600 m is a great art, inaccessible to a mere mortal - only to a super-American seahorse.
          1. -2
            12 June 2019 01: 16
            The main thing for Russian gunsmiths is to ensure the constant guaranteed superiority of domestic weapons over the overseas ones (about the same in Leskov's "Levsha", whence, which has become the talk of the town, the symbolic phrase-appeal "about guns and bricks" to the then "Artkom"!) - "Behold at the root"! wink
            Modern collimators and optical sights allow you to shoot accurately at a sufficiently long range, but even more interesting, convenient and accurate methods of aiming weapons at the target may appear (or already exist ?!), including in conditions of absolute absence of visibility (especially since collimators and thermal imagers give a noticeable illumination of the user's face to the enemy, with all the "ensuing consequences" ?!) - after all, for a long time already, in the same British special forces (probably in the American one), combat operations in underground communications have been worked out as the most likely type of battle for the nearest the future. In terms of, at least, the same "sound firing", it would be interesting to hear or simulate the "voice" of such a rifle in order to effectively and comprehensively solve the issues of barrel cooling and noise reduction ?! winked
            A distance (with 100% guaranteed "penetration" of Russian and Chinese body armor, as stated) of 600 meters, of course, is hardly always suitable for "shooting from the top of one mountain, to the top of another", but even on it an acceptable probability of defeat can be attainable targets, if not "precision", then concentrated fire from several such rifles ?! winked
            A barrel with a tapered bore does not fit the concept of a barrel with a cylindrical bore, so a 10-inch long barrel is not "short-bore" here - it's like measuring the age of a cat (or dog) by "human years"! Yes
            I have a pretty good idea of ​​the ways American gunsmiths could go, solving this technical problem with the design of telescopic munitions, and weapons for it.
            The declared concept and the mass of the entire system already, almost unambiguously, indicate the principle of automation used, and everything else is "a matter of technology" and is largely determined by the technical literacy, experience and "personal commitment" of a particular developer of a particular node! smile
      2. +3
        11 June 2019 21: 38
        And what a price! Wah! With such a price, they will simply be obliged to defeat everyone.
        in the 21st century, saving on small arms is just ridiculous.
        1. -2
          11 June 2019 23: 15
          Well then, you also need to gilding, so as not to rust.
  13. +4
    11 June 2019 15: 35
    Here are the fools. It was possible to push the kit on the old machine under the guise of a new one. Well, as in progressive superpowers do.
  14. -1
    11 June 2019 15: 39
    Having achieved the necessary initial speed of the bullet’s flight, they will receive the quickly developed resource of the barrel’s bore, wild recoil, the impossibility of a heap of automatic firing, and most likely the increased wear of all loaded parts of the carbine.
  15. +2
    11 June 2019 16: 30
    What is a "screw lock". Well, bolted - if correctly - longitudinally sliding swivel (and manually) with side stops (usually used in magazine rifles), there are also ways to lock the shutter by tilting, wedge, piston, rollers (semi-free), lever and a few more typed - "screw "which category does it belong to?
  16. 0
    11 June 2019 21: 47
    Strange, for some reason I thought, the narrowing bore is often used in modern small arms ...
    1. 0
      11 June 2019 22: 00
      Trunks are not enough, if "everywhere and often", an expensive pleasure. hi
      1. +1
        11 June 2019 23: 00
        Well, honestly, what is the real cost of the barrel? In fact, the barrel is just a thick-walled steel tube with rifling and possibly chrome-plated barrel bore - what can you regret?
        To make a good rifle barrel, you just need to drill it on a cnc, unzip it on a cnc and cut the finished piece in length at a cost of $ 3 dollars ... nowhere is easier.
        In the army there are much more expensive and complex things considered consumables, which is not a pity.
        1. 0
          11 June 2019 23: 07
          Well, honestly, what is the real cost of the barrel?


          And hell knows his colleague Karl. I believe that in mass production, in any case, it will fly a penny in comparison with the usual one.
    2. +1
      11 June 2019 23: 19
      In hunting - a chock and a half chock.
  17. +1
    12 June 2019 05: 20
    Speaking for Bullpup, then our ADF is closest to the ideal. True, there is something to finish there. And new materials actually make even traditional designs very light.
  18. +2
    12 June 2019 06: 22
    German conical barrels of the Second World War had three sections: the first - a rifled cylindrical one located from the chamber to approximately the middle of the barrel, the third - a smooth-bore cylindrical barrel of a smaller diameter, located in the muzzle of the barrel, between them there is a smooth-bore conical. The projectile has two "skirts" crimped in the barrel.
    They were abandoned due to the difficulty of making the barrels and the rapid wear of the barrels due to the great efforts during the compression of the "skirts". There is an alternative solution - the use of temporary armoring of powders - allows to partially equalize the pressure along the bore. The effect is the same, but the barrel is normal, only a powerful muzzle device is needed due to the high muzzle pressure.
  19. +6
    12 June 2019 09: 10
    As far as I know, about a million details and the complexity of an airplane, this is nonsense, the M-16 and M-4 are distinguished by increased convenience, all sorts of adjustments "for themselves", low weight, high accuracy of fire, reliability does not cause questions, and they are even easier to understand than AK. You don't have to believe all sorts of stories, yes, maybe the first versions had some flaws, but in my opinion they are releasing the 3rd or 4th generation, they have already eliminated all the shortcomings as much as possible.
  20. +3
    13 June 2019 00: 28
    We write a lot about what is being developed here, and sometimes we forget about the weapons that are being developed "here"


    This is because it is not for them to catch up with us for some types of weapons for about 20 years, but on the contrary ... hence, so much attention ...
  21. -1
    13 June 2019 00: 39
    Quote: Izotovp
    Speaking for Bullpup, then our ADF is closest to the ideal. True, there is something to finish there. And new materials actually make even traditional designs very light.

    Dear, you look at the picture of this "ideal" and imagine for yourself: how to shoot from it lying down?
    And as for "making it very easy" ... Here I just don't know what to say ... Have you forgotten about the impact?
    1. 0
      14 June 2019 23: 56
      Shooting from it is as convenient as from other “rolls”, since there are a lot of them for a long time. A matter of skill. Only in contrast to them, with ADS, forward extraction and grenade launcher are integrated, so the weight distribution is more successful and it is easier.
      About recoil, there are many fairly good DTCs, there are balanced circuits, and the machine itself (assault rifle) often weighs about the same as the bells and whistles still wound on it.
  22. +1
    13 June 2019 06: 00
    Mr. author -> author -> the author wasn’t shortened, as you put it, the M4 rifle, and the M 16A2 rifle was shortened, and the M4 carbine was turned out, which is why it is called a carbine and not an assault rifle.
  23. +1
    13 June 2019 06: 39
    Replacing a "bolted" gate with a "screw" one? Decide on the terms. It turns out the same horseradish only side view.
  24. +1
    13 June 2019 08: 09
    Gentlemen "writers", what kind of nonsense do you sometimes give out? The illiterate terminology you use right and left makes you think that you do not even understand what you are writing about.
    Hence the distrust ...
  25. +1
    13 June 2019 10: 39
    Quote: Den717
    Quote: yehat
    whose momentum will be small, and the energy of the bullet is large.

    The laws of physics have not yet been deceived by anyone ...

    you don’t need to deceive the momentum is equal to mv, the energy is mvv / 2
    therefore, due to the speed, energy can be saved, and the recoil momentum can be reduced.
    AEK's balanced automation also does not deceive anything, it just solves specific problems.
    the Abakan scheme is designed not to solve, but to bypass.
    and the tavor, besides bulpapnosti and the successful location of sighting equipment, has nothing more.

    no one argues that ergonomics is also important, but now there are so many samples that have been brought to mind that a Tavor is not something that is not a revolution, but simply "one more".
  26. 0
    13 June 2019 10: 43
    Quote: Genry
    Very convenient service.
    You just need to remove the shutter and you can clean and lubricate everything.

    as already mentioned above, those who served with the brand, there the part of the service, the most necessary, is convenient in the field,
    but not everything can be "cleaned".
  27. +1
    13 June 2019 10: 56
    Quote: mirag2
    I remember his words: “A stump, an aiming range of no more than 150 meters.” How can one not sell you a substandard in Estonia

    if you need a rifle to patrol the golan heights with aiming ranges of one kilometer, then the brand is, yes, not the best choice, and if you need to conduct a quick sweep in urban areas, then what better way to offer a brand? Ancient Uzi or the same ancient mp5? M4 carbine? Kalash (sorry - Galil)? I don’t even know what can be offered better.
    Each weapon focuses on its niche of use.
    1. 0
      19 June 2019 20: 40
      And what good is Tavor in urban development?
      And what does not suit MP5? or UMP? Yes, and a lot of similar software.
      short distance, small dimensions, maneuverable, accurate. An old, not old design allows you to install almost any device if necessary.
  28. 0
    13 June 2019 11: 21
    Quote: voyaka uh
    under 7.62 NATO

    Americans have long experimented with 6.45 caliber cartridges
    Interestingly, is this a dead end or future?
  29. 0
    19 June 2019 20: 35
    Quote: pishchak
    because for a long time already, in the same British special forces (probably in the American)

    squeaker, here you are a hypocrite. When I referred to the British special forces and his experience, you danced with madness and grimaced supposedly to refer to some kind of bloody special forces, but now you yourself see not only health but also memory. I have not seen such hypocrites, and it’s not even embarrassing to be like that. The old one probably already didn’t become a man.
  30. 0
    27 June 2019 00: 25
    Quote: voyaka uh
    2) compactness with a long barrel, usual for rifles.


    To advertise any weapon created according to the bulpab scheme, this wording is also acceptable, as the slogan: "Buy Israeli cars - they have a steering wheel and four wheels."
  31. 0
    28 July 2019 01: 26
    Interestingly, at least someone suggested to create a SV on the basis of "Abakan", just imagine two bullets in one target !? They crap the creator and threw the idea into the back box, but the idea is not bad!
  32. 0
    8 September 2019 12: 05
    Another article from the series "one grandma said" ..

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