In Roskosmos commented on restrictions from the Pentagon to interact with the Russian Federation

Roscosmos commented on yesterday’s decision by the US military about the ban from 31 on December 2022 of interacting with Russia in space rocket launches. Recall that such countries as, for example, China, Syria, the DPRK, and even Sudan have been included in the “prohibitive list” of the Pentagon.

Representatives of the "Roskosmos" note that such a decision by the US Ministry of Defense to limit cooperation in space exploration may have a negative impact on international cooperation. Also added that we can talk about a clear manifestation of unfair competition.

At the same time, the Russian space ministry makes it clear that the new American move is connected with the fact that Donald Trump ordered the creation of space troops. For obvious reasons, these troops cannot rely, for example, on the use of Russian rocket engines for rocket launches.

Recall that earlier in the United States the validity of the regulations for the use of Russian-made rocket engines was once again extended. By the end of 2022, the Pentagon expects to be able to launch space launches (including the withdrawal of military satellites) solely on the basis of US components. Whether it will work, the question is still open.

Comments

[Uncle lee]

the ban from December 31, 2022

and after this period they
how will they manage without us?

[Thrifty]

They have a Mask, and a lot of money invested in it, and we have a batofil Rogozin, so that without us they will manage without the efforts of Roscosmos.

[Uncle lee]

And what did the RD-180 have in store, they no longer need?

[Thrifty]

They need them, but on their terms. That is, almost for nothing! And we do not want to give them, we want to honestly sell! Therefore, there is a continuous political blackmail of Russia.

[Jurkovs]

Yes! The latest deliveries of engines just provide their needs for 22 years inclusive.

[Lannan Shi]

Quote from Uncle Lee

And what did the RD-180 have in store, they no longer need?

But in fact they do not need him. For 1 launch of mattress covers, approximately 1/4 of taxiway 180 is accounted for. This is just the perfect example of hard lobbying. Someone sat down on a topic, crouched tightly, and figs you will pick up. Lobby and nothing more.

[vasilii]

Quote from Uncle Lee

And what did the RD-180 have in store, they no longer need?

Only Atlas (ULA) and Antares (Northrop, on RD-180) fly on RD-181. Falcon flies on Merlin engines of its own design and production, and if the delivery of RD-180s is stopped, it will be just a huge gift to Musk, but will not in any way affect the ability of the United States to enter space.

[Mrstron]

The RD-180 belongs to the Americans, yes it is manufactured by us, but they have all the rights, well, about how an iPhone is made in China. If desired, they can start its production at home, but will not, are focused on the engines of a new generation.

[ansons]

Understand the question and do not smack nonsense, you would at least read the wiki or something. They can’t produce it at home, the RD-180 is just a modernization of the RD-170 that has been redone to meet the needs of the Amerikos, mind you, our specialists have redid it. In fact, they own only the name RD-180, and from the technical documentation there is one that is needed to fasten the engines to their missiles, they do not and will not have documentation for the production of engines. We use the modernized RD-170, under other designations. As far as new generation engines are concerned, this is also nonsense. There is not a new generation, engines based on these physical principles reached their development decades ago, now the increase in power goes by tenths of a percent. And in fact, the crown of this development is exactly the same RD-170 and its modernization. About engines based on new physical principles, that so far there is not much that is not heard except for R&D, both from them and from our side.

[Mrstron]

There is no “Russian RD-180 engine” in nature. There is the RD-180 engine, created within the framework of Russian-American cooperation, which was developed in Russia by order of the United States, and which is currently being produced by the American company Pratt & Whitney at Russian production facilities.
As a result, Energomash “developed” the required engine on the basis of the RD-170, which was called the RD-180, transferred all the rights and all documentation for its production to the Americans, and those, in accordance with the terms of the tender, placed the engine production in Russia at Energomash plants, since there was already all the necessary technological equipment.
It should be noted that this contract then came back to haunt the Russian military-industrial complex, because when Russia itself needed a "half" engine for the Rus-M and Angara missiles, it turned out that, under the terms of the contract, it could not produce the RD-180 for its own purposes, but must buy it from the American company Pratt & Whitney.
Those. It’s like an inventor and manufacturer of Energomash and even part of his patents, but he can produce and sell only with the permission of the Americans.

[ansons]

What are you reading? RD-180 is the modernization of the RD-170 no more. You write the same nonsense that they wrote a couple of years ago, when the conversation was about refusing to supply amers with engine supplies, which is then and now stupid. The documentation for the engine and the documentation for the production of the engine are not the same thing, it has long been stated; that the amers have the first, but there is no second. For example, roughly speaking. what the part looks like they know, but what method is it made of and what alloy is not. So naturally they will not make such an engine as it will be easier to develop a new one. And yes, we can’t use the RD-180, but it is not needed in essence, since there is an RD-170. Well, the fact that some one does not know how to read contracts and wanted to add a suitable RD-180 to his project, and not to upgrade the RD-170 for this. There’s nothing to talk about fools everywhere.

[Mrstron]

You yourself read what you wrote?

[slipped]

Quote: ansons

And yes, we can’t use the RD-180, but it is not needed in fact

RD-180 will be installed at the second stage central bank of the Yenisei.

[ansons]

"The first version of the Yenisei will have to go into space in 2027 or 2028. It will be a carrier with a carrying capacity of up to 90 tons, equipped with engines RD171M (1 stage), RD0124M (2 stages) and a new upper stage DM." This is provided that nothing changes until 27 BC.

[slipped]

Quote: ansons

"The first version of the Yenisei will have to go into space in 2027 or 2028. It will be a carrier with a carrying capacity of up to 90 tons, equipped with engines RD171M (1 stage), RD0124M (2 stages) and a new upper stage DM." This is provided that nothing changes until 27 BC.

The Yenisei launch vehicle is the first stage 6xRD-171MS, the second is RD-180, the third is KVSTK (2xRD-0146), RB "DM-03", PTK NP or satellite. Weight of PN on LEO - ~ 100 tons, GSO - 26 tons, OISL - 27 tons.

[ansons]

At the moment, the rocket project is still being developed and yours; ~ RD-180 will be installed at the central bank of the second stage of "Yenisei" ~, it doesn’t mean anything, until the project is approved. In some sources, I really found a mention of the RD-180, but only in context: they are planning the RD-171MV or RD-180 engine, while others only mention the engine that I gave above. In any case, all this with a pitchfork on the water. The mention of the RD-180 may well turn out to be the presence of fools in the project (which I wrote about above), who are not aware that the license for the RD-180 does not belong to us. Let's wait and see, I'm betting that it won't wake him up there.

[slipped]

Quote: ansons

who are not aware that the license for RD-180 does not belong to us.

You're not Russian? grammatical mistakes every other time. Production license and patent rights for RD-180 belong to NPO Energomash.

[ansons]

Are you a Russian teacher? No. Go forest. Regarding the RD-180, I have already spoken about all this above, read carefully, but the "joint production" with Pratt & Whitney imposes some restrictions on the use of these engines for themselves. Although it is quite possible there are some changes in this issue that I missed.

[slipped]

Quote: ansons

Are you a Russian teacher? No. Go forest.

No, I assumed that you are a student from abroad.

Quote: ansons

Regarding the RD-180, I have already spoken about all this above, read carefully, but the "joint production" with Pratt & Whitney imposes some restrictions on the use of these engines for themselves. Although it is quite possible there are some changes in this issue that I missed.

There are no changes in this matter. Refer to the source.

[ansons]

Well, I don’t suppose, but I’m sure that you, merging with the topic, indicate to others their spelling mistakes.

You can read something new for plums:

Stop arguing about grain loader options. Down with disputes over technical issues.

We master a higher style of argument. A dispute without facts. Dispute on temperament. A dispute that goes from unfounded affirmation to the identity of the partner.

What can the lame say about the art of Herbert von Karayan? If he is immediately told that he is lame, he recognizes himself defeated.

What can a person who did not change his passport argue about? What views on architecture can a man express without a residence permit? Caught red-handed, he confesses and admits himself defeated.

And in general, how can we be interested in the opinion of a bald man with such a nose? Let him first correct his nose, grow his hair, and then express himself.

Behavior in an argument should be simple: do not listen to the interlocutor, but look at him or hum, looking into his eyes. At the most acute moment, ask for a document, verify registration, ask for a testimonial from the place of work, it is easy to switch to "you", to say: "But this is not your dog's business", and your partner will soften like scalded.

In our time, when harmful insects are destroyed by sterilizing males, we must raise the level of spore to an abstract height. Let's talk about the fall and rise of Hollywood without seeing a single movie. Let's face philosophers without reading their works. Let's argue about the taste of oysters and coconuts with those who ate them, to hoarseness, before a fight, perceiving the taste of food by ear, color to a tooth, stench in the eye, imagining a movie by name, painting by last name, country by "Film Travel Club ", the acuteness of opinions on the reader.

Bringing products to the level of world standards that no one has seen, we will develop to the limit all seven senses plus intuition, which successfully replaces information. With which you have to congratulate yourself. I ask to the table - it boiled!

[slipped]

[quote = ansons] Well, I don’t guess, but I’m sure ... [quote]

Inadequate. Clear.

[NF68]

Quote: Thrifty

They have a Musk, and a lot of money invested in it,

If only it were limited to the Mask.

[Civil]

Tighten the nuts, options:
1. Try to increase their production of components and launch satellites for themselves and others. This requires a large investment, attracting expensive qualified personnel who still need to be trained.
2. Without waiting for the embargo on the main export items and the complete collapse of the economy according to the Venezuelan scenario, start a war in the direction of Ukraine, anschluss with Belarus, re-annexation of Central Asia, total military participation in Syria, Libya, and Central Africa. Amid active hostilities, forced to sit at the negotiating table.
3. To recognize the wrong in some matters and try to find an acceptable form of refusal to confront the Western scammers. But then it can be regarded by the population as a weakening of central authority and destabilization in part of the country.

PS. The main requirements of the West cannot be satisfied:
1. Democracy is not, like freedom, a value for the Russian population. The request is more for egalitarianism and justice.
2. Free elections will bring only very wealthy businessmen to power, the opinion of the silent majority will not be taken into account at all, which will ultimately polarize society.
3. The complete elimination of corruption will stop the economic life in the country. Alas, this is the lubricant of the modern economy of 2-3 worlds.

[vasilii]

Quote: Civil

The main requirements of the West cannot be satisfied:

The main requirements of the West are the refusal to annex the Crimea and the war in the Donbass. Democracy, fair elections, and the fight against corruption were absent until 2014, and everyone did not care. Well, 5 rogues from Magnitsky’s list were forbidden to have accounts and villas on Miami, did Russia somehow suffer from this? Yes, on the contrary, in my opinion.

But I agree that it is impossible to satisfy their requirements in any way. No one in Russia will refuse to join the Crimea, not a single politician will speak for it, if he does not want to immediately lose any support, people will not agree, because they will perceive it as nothing more than a national humiliation.

[Blackmokona]

They have with their engines in operation
Pegasus, Taurus, Delta-4 the whole family, Falcon-9, Falcon-Heavy.

[donavi49]

Antares have already buried the campaign. Use already assembled rockets. Then they will transfer Tsingusy for NASA (ISS) to Atlas5 (such launches have already been carried out - successfully and with a greater load). The new owner - the campaign was closed by the AntaresNG / 2 project. In any case, it was based on other engines (not the RF).

Atlas-5 - it’s actually interesting here. It was decided to change the rocket to Vulcan (already with Bezovsky methane-oxygen BE-4 - behind which Rogozin can really get in line, because this is like a new technology). That is, the workhorse of corporations - which compete with Mask = will not be Atlas5, but Vulcan. HOWEVER, Starlaner - is based precisely on Atlas5 as carriers; the Volcano is not yet planning to certify for manned launches. That is, Starliner Atlas. The Atlas-5 overhaul project for other engines was closed by the corporation in favor of the new highly competitive Vulcan rocket.

Delta Heavy - The most expensive missile in the world today (soon it will be replaced by SLS). Orders for NRO, the Air Force, and other federal customers are scheduled. But there is a reserve for increasing output / launches. The missile is absolutely not market but American.

9ka / Heavik - again, Musk.

From large on the way:
SLS - King rocket, the most expensive rocket ever launched into space. Artemis1 around the moon flies this year.
New glenn - the current term is 21 year, BE-4 engines, the rocket has a lot of interesting solutions in place, and even the Mask can move properly from the free market.
fireflies - launch this year. Engines of their own. All modern technologies are also integrated (such as printing on 3d printers of rocket elements and engines). Alpha is the 1000kg this year at 200km. Beta - which will be based on the same architecture = 4000kg / 200km and 3000kg / 500 (that is, military satellites can carry already).

Others are in the 500kg category so far. But the same RocketLab this year will make the first launch of a rocket from the United States (before that there was New Zealand, which not only generated problems for American customers with the delivery of vehicles but also cut off the public sector, which really does not want to bring military / secret satellites to another country) .

Engines are needed only by Antares and Atlas.

[voyaka uh]

"Bezovsky methane-oxygen BE-4" ////
-----
Mask also has a new Raptor on the way. It is made reusable
(for 50 starts) and cheap.

[Blackmokona]

SLS is cheaper than Shuttle and Saturn 5

[donavi49]

Well, if you count with inflation about Saturn. There is no shuttle - for SLS = is a rocket, and the shuttle is a system. Well, that is - SLS carries one-way load (which is not included in the launch cost) and such a price tag for the rocket. The price tag for the Shuttle is precisely for the shuttle itself, basically, not for the 2 accelerator and tank.

[Blackmokona]

SLS is actually a shuttle without a shuttle, from where everything got out. Shuttle side accelerators slightly elongated and shuttle engines redone one-time

[donavi49]

Well - that's what this is about. The shuttle is a manned system. Even if you need to launch satellites - you must always drag the shuttle + crew - for this is an integral part of the system. Hence the horse price tag.

SLS - threw the shuttle, made into a rocket from the same set of modules (but modified, of course).

[Aliken]

Roskosmos, be proactive and cancel the supply of engines since 2020. Stop depending on the whim of the United States, wipe their nose.

[Titsen]

Quote: Aliken

Roskosmos, be proactive and cancel the supply of engines since 2020. Stop depending on the whims of the USA

And will you give money for development to Roscosmos?

Give a lot?

Ur-patriotic propaganda will always rest against economic reality!

I want to eat now, not tomorrow ...

[Same lech]

And will you give money for development to Roscosmos?

Collaboration with the United States still leads to the fact that the United States withdraws from all treaties and throws its partners as the last suckers ... lately this has been seen especially well.
Therefore, relying on money and partnership with the United States is very risky for their own skin ... the damned will deceive.

[Yngvar]

Money for the development of Roskosmos? They will pull from our pockets (from the budget)!
Only the managers of Roskosmos won from the sale of the RD-180 ... Here is Yaroslavna's cry!
The R-7, as it was in the 60s, remained a "workhorse". The situation in Roskosmos resembles the history of the Zhiguli!
What's new about the Federation project? Or again, "sometimes x..n long, sometimes short pants"?

[Ka-52]

Money for the development of Roskosmos? They will pull from our pockets (from the budget)!
Only managers of Roscosmos benefit from the sale of RD-180

I understand that you have in your hands the budget of the Russian space industry and sources of financing before your eyes? Or do not you care what to throw on the fan?

our pockets with you

taking into account the ardent love of Russians for tax evasion, the phrase is masterpiece. They throw it all, even those who have not contributed to the state budget for life and a penny))

[Yngvar]

We have before our eyes the arrests of managers of Roscosmos and the lack of translational movement thereof! And also a series of accidents and incidents with spacecraft!
Well, for non-payment of taxes, you will turn to 1% of the population of Russia - to the most "disadvantaged" from the Forbes list ...

[Ka-52]

lack of translational movement thereof! And also a series of accidents and incidents with spacecraft!

What is the connection between your pocket and accident rate? Or is it possible to get such a connection from the nose?

Well, for non-payment of taxes, you will turn to 1% of the population of Russia - to the most "disadvantaged" from the Forbes list ...

that is, they are the only ones who have to pay taxes? Did you release the rest of the citizens in a cheer-patriotic impulse from this duty? Sweetheart, your populism is certainly understandable, but you do not need to overdo it. And then all this is silly.

[Ka-52]

in fact, everyone understands the problems of the Russian defense industry and the space industry. They are, and unfortunately there are more of them than necessary. But populists like you, who flooded VO with cries of "ahhh, power is corrupt! Everything is lost! Oligarchs! Oligarchs! Thieves, all thieves! President is a thief! Government is thieves! Oligarchs are thieves! We are all beggars!" and so on in a circle, regardless of the topic of the discussed material, zadolbali in the region !. Due to your screams, clogging like spam, all comments, you cannot see the discussion of the subject itself. Not to graze in the section "Opinion", so you even climbed into the section "Armament". This is sad.

[Aliken]

The US is funding Roscosmos, are you serious? It's funny, yes.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Titsen

I want to eat now, not tomorrow ...

As if now not to "eat" tomorrow.

[Mikhail m]

Quote: Aliken

Stop depending on the whims of the USA

We cannot cope with the whim of the United States even on our territory. Suffice it to recall Deripaska. An even more telling example is the refusal of the Kavminsteklo plant to deliver containers to Crimea due to US sanctions. In response, the president of the Union of winemakers and winegrowers of Russia Leonid Popovich said that it is better for Crimean wine producers to find alternative producers of glass containers themselves. It seems like you yourself are to blame, yourself and get out. Can you imagine something like this in the USA?

[Aliken]

Sadly, yes.

[Blackmokona]

The mask will please such an embargo, all orders from the Atlas will leave him

[Ros 56]

Therefore, we need to do everything so that the striped space troops cannot become space troops.

[Aliken]

Exactly. The United States needs to be braked right now, otherwise Roscosmos will cry later, they won’t catch up with them, the United States cannot be helped to create their HF.

[Engineer Schukin]

Recall that earlier in the United States the validity of the regulations for the use of Russian-made rocket engines was once again extended. By the end of 2022, the Pentagon expects to be able to launch space launches (including the withdrawal of military satellites) solely on the basis of US components. Whether it will work, the question is still open.

Who do you compose these propogondon nonsense there?

The Pentagon has always had and has the ability (and does it) to launch its spacecraft on the Deltas and Falcons, where there is no trace of Russian (quasi-Russian) first-stage engines.

Why do you think your audience is so illiterate as to palm off your rye-stew?

[rotmistr60]

... the ban from December 31, 2022 to interact with Russia in the implementation of space rocket launches

It already sounded, but then the Americans shifted the terms to the right. It is possible that a new date will be announced in a year, for example: from 2025. In another article, Roskosmos expressed regret a declared initiative of the United States. But on this occasion I would like to say that it will be enough for Roskosmos to throw snot on its fist in front of the Americans for their green papers (sale of engines, delivery of astronauts), or may refuse to help them in these matters. We are on the tinsel, and we are ready to endure and smile for pieces of paper.

[Altona]

Quote: rotmistr60

But on this occasion I would like to say that it will be enough for Roskosmos to throw snot on its fist in front of the Americans for their green papers (sale of engines, delivery of astronauts), or may refuse to help them in these matters. We are on the tinsel, and we are ready to endure and smile for pieces of paper.

---------------------------
The government has $ 2 trillion of unclaimed money in the budget, and is still coddling before the United States. Plus they still rip off the population. The question is, is this our government? I have the impression that Russian Jews pay tribute to American Rome.

[Mouse]

Yes Musk to help them!

[likana]

Quote: Mouse

Yes Musk to help them!

It is written together - Damascus)))

[Thrifty]

Since the 14th year, our authorities have lived and still live in the illusions that without our Roscosmos, the earth will stop rotation? They forgot that the Chinese are on their heels, that private capital has seriously invested in space in the USA! As a result, we will soon be sitting near a trough! Because the illusions that the capitalist cosmos will bend without us are still entertaining us!

[Altona]

The Pentagon seems to have never cooperated with Gorgozin. Something Dima sent his trampoline in the wrong direction.

[Ka-52]

Sudanese representative: "this is really insulting!"

[bald]

Why wait then, transferring everything to money. Destroying contracts, cause, or condition is not hard to find. We should be the first to throw, at least once.

[Polymer]

Recall that in the "prohibition list" of the Pentagon were such countries as, for example, China, Syria, North Korea and even Sudan.

I understand that Syria and Sudan until December 31, 2022 simply must now become a space power? Well, the goals are set, the deadlines are indicated. Forward!

[Dargavs]

Who prevents the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation from making a decision on a complete ban on trade and interaction with the United States in the space industry from "XNUMX" - no one, and then "either a shah or a donkey"