US Barrel Artillery Systems. ERCA program and a new firing range record

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In the future, a whole series of barrel artillery systems of the US Army will give way to new models with increased range and accuracy. Creating a replacement for them is now under way within the Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) program, implemented by Picatinny Arsenal and a number of related organizations. The first works in this direction began in the 2015 year, and by now they have led to the emergence of a number of prototypes with remarkable characteristics. In recent weeks, official sources and specialized media revealed the latest successes of the ERCA project.


Experienced howitzer M777ER. Photo US Army




Range tests


8 in May, the press service of the US Army reported on the recent conduct of regular tests under the ERCA program. At one of the landfills, test shooting took place again using an experienced self-propelled gun with a new type of gun and a number of projectiles of different models. Estimated characteristics weapons fully confirmed, showing the benefits of new developments.

As a platform for experienced weapons used converted serial ACS M109. It has a new long-barreled XM907 gun mounted on an XM908 unit. A standard shot with an M549A1 active-projectile, a M982-operated Excalibur and a promising XM1113 were used in the shooting. The aim of the shooting was to determine the maximum range of fire.

When using a standard ACN M109 gun, the firing range of the M549A1 projectile reaches 23,5 km. The XM907 cannon successfully sent it to 30 km. The range of the controlled M982 has increased from 40 to 62 km. The best results showed the latest projectile XM1113 - he flew on 72 km.

It should be noted that such results are no longer news. Previously, within the framework of the ERCA program, other test firing with the use of new products was carried out, and they consistently showed a serious increase in the basic characteristics. In the last tests, they again increased the parameters.

Officials clarify that while we are talking only about technology demonstrators. According to the results of the current test work, the specialists of the army and defense enterprises will have to determine the exact appearance of future serial systems. It is obvious that the latter will be based on the components and devices that are currently being tested.

Project components


Within the framework of the ERCA program, several types of weapons and support systems of all main classes have been created and are being tested. Now they are being tested as technology demonstrators. We are talking about a pair of guns in towed and self-propelled performance, the means for promising self-propelled guns and new shots.

The first prototype of the ERCA program in 2016 was the 155-mm howitzer M777ER - a redesigned version of the M777A1 serial with a barrel length 55 caliber. In 2017-m built an experimental self-propelled gun with a similar weapon, received the index XM907. The new XM777 howitzer differs from the M907ER in a barrel-sized 58. Together with the XM907, an experienced self-propelled gun used the installation XM908 and updated tools for fire control and guidance, as well as improved automation to work with ammunition.


Experienced self-propelled M109 with XM907 gun. Photo Thedrive.com


The ERCA cannon shot includes a variable charge XM654 and a projectile XM1113. The latter is made in the case of the type of serial products, but has a modern content. Such a high-explosive fragmentation projectile has a guidance system with inertial and satellite navigation. Control is carried out by aerodynamic control surfaces. Also, the product is equipped with a full-sized compact solid fuel engine.

The XM1113 projectile was created for new implements, but it can also be used with existing 155-mm systems. However, a shorter barrel length for other guns degrades the initial acceleration and reduces the firing range to 40 km. With the use of ERCA guns, the range increases in a noticeable way. Last year, during testing, this parameter reached 62 km, and not so long ago, it was possible to shoot at 10 km further.

The development of another projectile - XM1115. This project takes into account modern threats and provides guidance without using GPS data. This will allow hitting targets with high accuracy when the enemy uses EW tools and the absence of satellite signals. For combat qualities, XM1115 should be close to XM1113.

Goals and objectives


At the moment, the main goal of the ERCA program is to develop promising technologies needed to increase the range of artillery systems. Several technology demonstrators have been created, with the help of which new ideas are being developed. In the future, based on them, full-fledged models of weapons for the army will be developed.

To date, the range of the XM907 / XM1113 complex was able to bring to 70-72 km, which is twice or more above the characteristics of serial systems. A twofold increase in range in a known manner increases the area of ​​responsibility of 155-mm guns / ACS, with clear consequences for its combat use. In fact, we can talk about a real breakthrough in the field of shooting from closed positions.

There are also other goals. First of all, the fire control systems are being improved, which will provide increased accuracy of fire. Attention is paid to automated loading tools that can increase the rate of fire. Fundamentally new guided missiles should also affect accuracy and efficiency.

US Barrel Artillery Systems. ERCA program and a new firing range record
Components of the ERCA program. Figure Defence-blog.com


Existing technology demonstrators maintain compatibility with existing ammunition of their caliber. In this case, the increase in combat effectiveness is provided by an increase in the range of 25-30%, a higher rate of fire and a more accurate aiming when shooting.

Distant future


While the ERCA program is at the stage of testing prototypes built using new technologies and solutions. After the demonstration stage, it is planned to begin the development of full-fledged new tools and shells suitable for use in the military. Their adoption is expected to significantly increase the combat capability of artillery units.

For a certain time, new tools and self-propelled guns will have to serve along with older models, which are lagging behind in their basic characteristics. The ERCA project provides for compatibility of new guns with old shots, which in the future will simplify the joint operation of systems of different generations. At the same time, even with the use of old shots, new weapons will be more effective. The use of new ammunition, in turn, will lead to an even greater increase in performance.

However, while all this is just plans. At the moment, specialists from Arsenal Picatinny and other defense organizations are busy working out new solutions, on the basis of which in the foreseeable future they will create full-fledged samples of weapons. While participants of the ERCA program are not ready to give exact dates for the completion of current work and the transition to the design of combat samples. The same applies to the cost and other features of future products.

Thus, the current program Extended Range Cannon Artillery looks extremely interesting and promising, and also shows what results can be obtained with the current level of technology development. However, the US Army has so far to observe only the experiments and research, while real and practically applicable results will appear only after a few years.
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  1. 0
    30 May 2019 18: 46
    To date, the firing range of the XM907 / XM1113 complex has been brought up to 70-72 km, which is twice or more than the characteristics of serial systems.

    Then she can shoot. And what about getting into the account? Or a homing projectile with a price several times higher than the cost of a possible target.
    1. +1
      30 May 2019 20: 27
      Quote: Amateur
      She can shoot. And how about the account?

      Easy. Today, the accuracy of the range does not depend on the burzhinov. They just realized years ago, 300, that not all errors are distributed according to the Normal (Gauss) law.
      [media = https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = vJGbFuQzrxU]

      Quote: Amateur
      Or a homing projectile with a price that is several times higher than the cost of a possible target.

      How do you estimate the price of the goal? It is necessary to evaluate it for the damage that it can bring.

      PS
      Today shells are expensive. No doubt. However, their quantity is not required as in Vietnam or Laos.
      1. +4
        30 May 2019 20: 35
        Quote: professor
        They just realized years ago, 300, that not all errors are distributed according to the Normal (Gauss) law.

        For sure. And not all subjects obey the law of the world. This issue is decided by the American courts and of course the Congress.

        By the way, have they already abolished the legislative restrictions on volume? For example, is it possible to shove equipment into a volume of two cubic decimeters and other things with a volume of one cubic meter?
        Since the laws of the universe have begun to be changed by the decision of the "people's" elect ... laughing
        1. +2
          31 May 2019 11: 26
          Quote: Spade
          For sure. And not all subjects obey the law of the world. This issue is decided by the American courts and of course the Congress.

          Yep You have every billionth missile fired at 10 km leaving the solar system. This is the normal distribution law. What to do if you have ALL the processes are subordinate to this law and other laws you are prohibited as burzhuinskie? Ambush however. laughing

          Quote: Yuri_999
          They just realized years ago, 300, that not all errors are distributed according to the Normal (Gauss) law.

          Yeah, you realize years ago on 100 before Gauss formulated it :)
          And even before the United States appeared

          Exactly. Old Gauss just described this phenomenon that exists in nature since the creation of the world ..

          Quote: san4es
          The shell is really different .........

          And the principle of guidance?

          PS
          Lopatov, do you have Chechens in the Kremlin regiment, or segregation does not allow? And then how can I look at the guard of honor so that some people of Slavic nationality ... request
          1. +2
            31 May 2019 11: 39
            Quote: professor
            Yeah. You have every billionth projectile fired 10 km leaves the solar system.

            We have all the old ...
            About the abolition of the laws of nature, it is in you. Rather, to you.
            And then the "Great Democratic Abolition of Normal Distribution" has not yet reached the minds of developers in Israel, and these ignoramuses continue to write about CEP. We urgently need to replace them with the right developers, democratic and tolerant.

            Quote: professor
            So.

            Y-yes .... You could be silent, would not look so stupid.

            Quote: professor
            Lopatov, do Chechens serve in the Kremlin regiment or does segregation not allow you?

            I have no idea. All the same "shtatka" is a secret thing. Well, to judge the national composition of the regiment from the photographs of the soldiers of one of its companies ... I will not undertake this ... And you seem to have done so 8))))))))
            1. +2
              31 May 2019 19: 45
              Quote: Spade
              We have all the old ...

              Does every billionth missile fired at 10 km leave the solar system?
              Or does it mean in the old way that, apart from the Normal distribution law, nothing is ever taught?

              Quote: Spade
              And then the "Great Democratic Abolition of Normal Distribution" has not yet reached the minds of developers in Israel, and these ignoramuses continue to write about CEP. We urgently need to replace them with the right developers, democratic and tolerant.

              Where the Normal law is applicable there and write. Where not applicable do not write. You do not recognize anyone except Gauss.

              Quote: Spade
              Y-yes .... You could be silent, would not look so stupid.

              Do not you talk about nonsense. In your every billionth missile fired at 10 km leaves the solar system.

              Quote: Spade
              I have no idea. All the same "shtatka" is a secret thing. Well, to judge the national composition of the regiment from the photographs of the soldiers of one of its companies ... I will not undertake this ... And you seem to have done so 8))))))))

              This is the "army cover". The absence of persons of Caucasian nationality is immediately evident. not otherwise segregation.

              And now about the national composition of the regiment from photographs of the soldiers of one of his mouths. After all, everything is subject to Normal Law. wink Suppose that every Chechen has an equal opportunity as any other to get to serve in any place (it is already funny). The regiment is roughly a 1500 man. In the company 150 people. To simplify arithmetic, we assume that the size of a regiment is equal to the number of ten companies. Now your favorite Teverver. Attention question. What is the probability that in one company never Caucasians do not come across if only Chechens in the Russian Federation are about 1% of the population? Right. The probability of such an event is zero. Here either the gauss law does not work, or the segregation, cross out the wrong one.
              1. +1
                31 May 2019 20: 01
                Quote: professor
                Or does it mean in the old way that, apart from the Normal distribution law, nothing is ever taught?

                Of course they do not teach. We have other alternative knowledge not in honor. There, psychics and others.

                Quote: professor
                Where the Normal Law is applicable there they write. Where not applicable do not write.

                Well, write to your WTO developers that you have canceled the normal law for their development. And now they obey a special theory of errors. Democratic.
                What are you trying to explain to me? I do not indicate CEP for Israeli ammunition

                Quote: professor
                Do not you talk about stupidity.

                I do not declare the abolition of the law for 100 years before its discovery

                Quote: professor
                This is the "army cover".

                You have always been let down by superficiality.
                Presidential Regiment is not an army, and since the days of Stalin.
                NKVD, MGB, KGB, Department of Protection, FSO.
                Therefore, the "cover of the army" cannot be.
                1. +2
                  31 May 2019 20: 44
                  Quote: Spade
                  Of course they do not teach. We have other alternative knowledge not in honor. There, psychics and others.

                  I know that they do not teach. We discussed this last time. The laws of error distribution are basic knowledge, not alternative.

                  Quote: Spade

                  Well, write to your WTO developers that you have canceled the normal law for their development. And now they obey a special theory of errors. Democratic.
                  What are you trying to explain to me? I'm not for Israeli ammunition

                  Again. Where applicable the law of Gauss is where we use it. Where not applicable do not use. I do not need to explain anything to them. We learned the same statistics with them. They have already mastered everything. But you, in your words, use only Normal Law.

                  Quote: Spade
                  I do not declare the abolition of the law for 100 years before its discovery

                  Abolition of the law? I did not write this. Read more carefully: They just realized years ago so 300 back that not all errors are distributed according to the Normal (Gauss) law.

                  By the way, I have written before and now I will repeat that there are things that obey the Normal Law. Artillery accuracy does not apply to this.

                  Quote: Spade
                  You have always been let down by superficiality.
                  Presidential Regiment is not an army, and since the days of Stalin.
                  NKVD, MGB, KGB, Department of Protection, FSO.
                  Therefore, the "cover of the army" cannot be.

                  Therefore, the "army cover" is highlighted in quotation marks, KEP and let the Russian military unit not be an army. This does not change the essence. There are no Chechens there. Segregation? About whether there are Chechens in the Airborne Forces, you certainly "do not know". “You don’t know” whether the combat pilots are Chechens. Do you not trust the Chechens with the helm of a combat aircraft? wink
      2. +1
        30 May 2019 22: 07
        They just realized years ago, 300, that not all errors are distributed according to the Normal (Gauss) law.

        Yeah, you realize years ago on 100 before Gauss formulated it :)
        And even before the United States appeared
      3. +2
        30 May 2019 22: 40
        Quote: professor
        Quote: Amateur
        She can shoot. And how about the account?

        Easy. Nowadays accuracy on the range does not depend on the bourgeois.


        feel ... The shell is really different .......... hi
    2. +1
      30 May 2019 20: 40
      Quote: Amateur
      She can shoot. And how about the account?

      Why get in? Here you write some nonsense. Shells of this type are intended solely for the relatively honest withdrawal of taxpayer money. No more.

      Otherwise, why do you need so many dances around the degraded analogue of the GMLRS rocket?
    3. SSJ
      -2
      30 May 2019 21: 05
      If, for example, the goal is even a field kitchen, minus two infantrymen - this is garbage, the women still give birth, and the ammunition for Amers will end because they are expensive.
      1. 0
        30 May 2019 21: 16
        Quote: SSJ
        If, for example, the goal is even a field kitchen

        And you still try to get into it at such a distance. 8)))))) Having previously discovered that the problem is also non-trivial
    4. 0
      5 August 2019 19: 04
      Especially for you, a picture is drawn with this shell. Look at the controls in the nose of the projectile. This is no longer news. There are JIPIES modules with controls that are screwed into the place of a conventional fuse. Therefore, the accuracy of both 20 and 72 km will be the same.
      Moreover, the Americans boasted that some M777 had developed a barrel resource in Iraq only by firing shells with such a module.
  2. +1
    30 May 2019 18: 46
    Interestingly, what is the weight of the towed, originally intended for transportation by helicopter "Chinook" M777 with a barrel of 58 calibers?
  3. +2
    30 May 2019 19: 46
    Such a high-explosive fragmentation projectile has a guidance system with inertial and satellite navigation. Management is carried out by aerodynamic rudders. The product is also equipped with a full-fledged small-sized solid fuel engine.
    It is not clear what kind of breakthrough we are talking about. It’s just a rocket with acceleration in the gun’s barrel. In my opinion, it has a very distant relation to artillery. As a high-precision remedy, defeat may not be bad, the question is in the accuracy and weight of warheads. It is doubtful that a large explosive charge can be crammed into a 155 mm shell, which justifies the price of the product. I am silent about the target’s area defeat.
    1. +1
      30 May 2019 21: 10
      Quote: evgic
      It is doubtful that a large explosive charge can be crammed into a 155 mm shell, which justifies the price of the product.

      Exactly. You pose the question correctly.
      There is a projectile of standard length and diameter (in the figure there is an automatic loader, therefore these sizes are standard)

      And we take and remove part of the explosive from this shell in order to shove in its place, firstly, the engine and secondly, the control system. How many explosives remain? Yes, how come, well, if half.
    2. 0
      31 May 2019 00: 21
      “It's just a rocket with acceleration in the gun barrel.
      to artillery has in my opinion "////
      ----
      Do not call it, at least artillery, at least a rocket launcher, at least
      "terrible shooter" - what's the difference? - just to hit the target.
      The rocket engine is added to the bombs and they are screwed into the ground on
      50 m. "Not by the rules!" - the force of gravity does not allow you to go so deep
      "a real honest bomb". laughing
      And the loitering ammunition? Also "sawed off taxpayers' money."
      What is he loitering? Newton said: "fall down" - you have to fall, not fly
      over your head! am
      1. +1
        31 May 2019 08: 49
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Do not call it, at least artillery, at least a rocket launcher, at least
        "terrible shooter" - what's the difference?

        The difference is not in the name, the difference is in the essence. In barreled artillery, any "innovation", be it a control system or a rocket engine, is placed at the expense of the main one, that is, the warhead.

        It turns out some kind of complete stupidity. Why try to make a foul analogue of a tactical rocket launcher out of an artillery gun, with more expensive but less powerful ammunition?
        1. +3
          31 May 2019 09: 15
          Quote: Spade
          Why try to make a foul analogue of a tactical missile installation out of an artillery gun

          Then, that a rocket launcher with a range of 50-70 km is also rather big and expensive.
          Quote: Spade
          less powerful ammunition?

          It's good. The Americans are interested in destroying the firing point, the maximum is a small house, not half a city.
          Quote: Spade
          Which is nowhere to use, but expensive to apply.

          The Americans are looking for a cheaper and more effective analogue to the flight of a UAV with a helper. Looking for a long time and hard.
          . against normal armies

          In recent years, the Americans have been waging the conflicts that they do. They deal with "normal armies" in a week or two, having lost a detachment of soldiers, and then they put years and a division of l / s on partisan warfare. So I don't see anything strange in the desire to enhance the fire capabilities that the army has at the brigade level without calling the Air Force.
          1. 0
            31 May 2019 09: 53
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Then, that a rocket launcher with a range of 50-70 km is also rather big and expensive.

            Smaller and cheaper guns with a standard tractor.
            And if we talk about a much smaller warhead, then it’s completely like this:


            Quote: Cherry Nine
            It's good. The Americans are interested in destroying the firing point, the maximum is a small house, not half a city.

            It’s easier and cheaper to make a smaller rocket. Or buy from the Israelis.
            Rather than trying to cram expensively into the un-edged, moreover, limited by the size of the tray of the automatic loading system.

            Quote: Cherry Nine
            The Americans are looking for a cheaper and more effective analogue to the flight of a UAV with a helper. Looking for a long time and hard.

            Moreover, they found it long ago, but they are stubbornly spending money to continue the search. After all, here the process is more important than the result ...
            By the way, the HAND, consisting of a pair of HIMARS with guided missiles and a reconnaissance drone, have already been used in battle, and in the most difficult version, an urban battle.

            However, the search should continue .... while money is allocated for this.

            Quote: Cherry Nine
            They deal with "normal armies" in a week or two

            With normal armies, they do not fight at all. Even almost normal ones like the North Korean or Iranian cause natural fear.

            Quote: Cherry Nine
            So I don’t see anything strange in the desire to strengthen the fire capabilities that the army has at the brigade level without calls to the Air Force.

            HIMARS / MLRS they have at the divisional level. And there are a lot of them. Enough is not something that every brigade, each battalion can provide. About the brigade AA, again at the divisional level, I will not say anything at all.
            ====
            In short, there is no urgent need to make very howling tacts from howitzers. rockets
            1. +1
              31 May 2019 11: 29
              Quote: Spade
              like that

              This one hits 35 km. Hymars generally goes into tactical missiles.
              Quote: Spade
              It's easier and cheaper to make a rocket

              Quote: Spade
              Moreover, they found it long ago, but they are stubbornly spending money to continue the search.

              It was always surprising how many people in Russia were sick for the American taxpayer.
              Quote: Spade
              With normal armies, they do not fight at all

              If I am not mistaken, the only army that still knows how to conduct full-scale military operations is the American. Last time they did it in 2003. I note in parentheses that this was very different from the cosplay of the Second World War, which we saw in 2014, for example.
              Quote: Spade
              like North Korean or Iranian cause natural fear.

              You will be greatly surprised, but the main problem with both of them is what to do next with all this beggarly rabble.
              Quote: Spade
              they have at the divisional level

              Quote: Spade
              About the brigade AA, again at the divisional level, I will not say anything at all.

              They are not fighting at the divisional level now. Brigades or battalions. Too much honor for different Khattabychs to deploy a full-fledged division.
              Quote: Spade
              In short, there is no urgent need to make very howling tacts from howitzers. rockets

              Is it bad, is it good, but they’ll figure it out without us.
              1. 0
                31 May 2019 11: 50
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                This one hits 35 km. Hymars generally goes into tactical missiles.

                South Korean 130 mm RSs operate over 80 km.

                Quote: Cherry Nine
                If I am not mistaken, the only army that still knows how to conduct full-scale military operations is the American.

                Because she does not associate with the army, capable of doing it realistically, and not in words? How is North Korea defeated for a long time?
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                You will be greatly surprised, but the main problem with both of them is what to do next with all this beggarly rabble.

                This problem is not absolutely. South Korea is ready to take all in bulk ..

                Quote: Cherry Nine
                They are not fighting at the divisional level now. Brigades or battalions. Too much honor for different Khattabychs to deploy a full-fledged division.

                You just wrote complete nonsense. And helicopters and MLRS appear more regularly in the video and pictures from the BV. And they are just the same "divisional level" that allegedly does not fight.




                Quote: Cherry Nine
                It was always surprising how many people in Russia were sick for the American taxpayer.

                And why in comedies the fall of man causes laughter? So we gloat.
                1. +3
                  31 May 2019 12: 18
                  Quote: Spade
                  So we gloat

                  It seems a little strange in your position to worry about the Americans.
                  Quote: Spade
                  And helicopters and MLRS appear more regularly in the video and pictures from the BV. And they are just the same "divisional level" that allegedly does not fight.

                  This is because you do not see the difference between a division and a reinforced platoon. Yes, a platoon reinforced by aviation, hello to taxpayers.
                  Quote: Spade
                  South Korea is ready to take all in bulk ..

                  Quote: Spade
                  How is North Korea defeated for a long time?

                  Under no circumstances should South Korea reunite with North. This would be a disaster for everyone, and for South Korea, and for other countries. All adequate people understand this, including the State Department.

                  Yes, 25 million people who do not know how and do not understand zk are an excellent guarantee of sovereignty. There is something to think about in other sovereign above average countries.
                  Quote: Spade
                  Therefore, she does not contact the army

                  What for? The last time they won, so what?
                  1. 0
                    31 May 2019 13: 57
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    It seems a little strange in your position to worry about the Americans.

                    Once again, this is not a concern.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    This is because you do not see the difference between a division and a reinforced platoon.

                    This is so, words, nothing more. It was about "not contacting the Air Force at the brigade level." Then the level surfaced only one higher. Division level. Where is MLRS and helicopters. And which, all of a sudden, is still used, what not to call it.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Under no circumstances should South Korea reunite with North. This would be a disaster for everyone, and for South Korea, and for other countries. All adequate people understand this, including the State Department.

                    More than sure that similar broadcast for the GDR. True, then there was no Internet, and therefore it did not survive.
                    So don't talk about "grapes are green" when it's just scary.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    What for? The last time they won, so what?

                    Yah?
                    Why did one "combat" general have a hysteria and demanded a strike with cobalt bombs on the border between the PRC and the DPRK? And in the end, the President of the United States was forced to remove this hysteria ...
                    Who draped up to the current dividing line?
                    Why is the war still not over, if "won"?
                    1. 0
                      31 May 2019 14: 02
                      It seems that the colleague of the VD as "last time" did not mean 50-53 years
                      1. -1
                        31 May 2019 14: 16
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        It seems that the colleague of the VD as "last time" did not mean 50-53 years

                        What else was there?
                        I remembered the epic victory of the US-South Korean group over the tree.
                        How could I forget this ... This is the achievement of the level of victory in the First or Second World War.
                      2. +1
                        31 May 2019 14: 22
                        Pologayu-Iraq. The transition from a divisional to a brigade structure in the US Army was decided precisely after the experience of Iraq-2003. not decide
                      3. +1
                        31 May 2019 14: 56
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Pologayu-Iraq. The transition from a divisional to a brigade structure in the us army was decided precisely after the experience of Iraq-2003

                        And what about Iraq? You do not equal them with the DPRK.
                        For example, do you know that North Koreans have more MLRS than Russia and China combined?

                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Well, they also made sure that spreading "normal armies" is not a problem for the US Army. Problems come later. And divisions / brigades cannot solve them

                        I repeat once again, the Americans have no problems with "normal armies" just because they don't get in touch with them, even with the Korean People's Army.
                      4. 0
                        31 May 2019 17: 34
                        Quote: Spade
                        For example, do you know that North Koreans have more MLRS than Russia and China combined?

                        Apart from the archaic and low efficiency of this weapon system, I cannot explain this curiosity. And you?)
                        By the way. Some time ago, EMNIP comrade Old 26 dismantled with numbers the state of the mighty North Korean artillery in general and MLRS in particular. The picture was not particularly impressive. 90% of it is hopeless trash
                      5. 0
                        31 May 2019 18: 02
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        In addition to the archaic and low efficiency of this weapon system, I cannot explain this curiosity

                        And you ask the Ukrainians how "Grads" have "little efficiency"
                        The North Koreans just thought it was cheap. There are even such "mobilization" things there:


                        Here's the thing. For a single action movie, such a battery / division is really mega-redundant.
                        However, when it comes to military units, MLRS can be, if used correctly, much more effective than trying to slowly destroy each of the targets with high-precision ammunition.
                        That is, the MLRS is precisely for a "normal war"

                        Quote: Town Hall
                        90% hopeless trash there

                        Apparently, you misunderstood something there.
                      6. 0
                        31 May 2019 18: 21
                        Quote: Spade
                        Apparently, you misunderstood something there

                        Undoubtedly, the photo with this archaic on the trailer of agricultural tractors clarified everything
                      7. 0
                        31 May 2019 18: 47
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        The photo with this archaic on the trailer of agricultural tractors clarified everything

                        Will dying from such archaic be easier?
                      8. +1
                        31 May 2019 18: 52
                        You can die if you fall from the couch. This is not a reason to announce the undoubted superiority of the couch troops
                      9. 0
                        31 May 2019 19: 01
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        You can die if you fall from the couch. This is not a reason to announce the undoubted superiority of the couch troops

                        There is an ultra-modern MLRS. There is "archaic". It will be easier for you personally to die from the "archaic", knowing that the senior officer had to count two minutes longer?
                    2. +2
                      31 May 2019 17: 03
                      Quote: Spade
                      Yah?

                      It was about Iraq, as you have already been told. The Korean war ended unsuccessfully: Eisenhower lost again, but again told everyone that he had won, so no conclusions were made. Conclusions postponed to Vietnam. In those years, Americans did not know how to learn from victories.

                      Quote: Spade
                      For example, do you know that North Koreans have more MLRS than Russia and China combined?

                      This just proves that the MLRS is the day of the war.
                      Quote: Spade
                      Americans do not have problems just because they do not contact them, even with the Korean people.

                      Let me remind you that in Iraq there was a one and a half million, EMNIP, army with combat experience. As for Korea, Kim’s MLRS will be created not by the Americans, but by the South Koreans. But, as I said, shelling Seoul implies far less damage to South Korea than victory.
                      Quote: Spade
                      why one "combat" general had a hysteria

                      Are you talking about Field Marshal MacArthur? His mental state is a long and difficult conversation.
                      Quote: Spade
                      similarly broadcast for the GDR

                      Just the GDR showed how bad this idea was. Even leaving the current Komsomol Chancellor out of brackets. Moreover, in comparison with the DPRK, the GDR variant is extremely soft: the ratio of the population is twice as simple, communism is 2 times less both in time and in tenacity.
                      So the only normal option for the DPRK is joining the PRC. About him now there is no question. The PRC is large enough to absorb this economic nightmare, and there will be no problem for the PRC to vote these unfortunate people. In a united Korea, the issue of suffrage for northerners will be even harder than the economy.
                      Quote: Spade
                      Then the level surfaced just one higher.

                      USA DOESN'T DEVELOP DIVISIONS IN LOCAL CONFLICTS MORE. THE AMERICAN DIVISION, MORE THAN A HOUSING, IS TOO STRONG AS IRAQ 2003 showed. Accordingly, interaction with divisional funds is carried out not at the division level, but at the regional operation headquarters level. At the same time, art is a means of brigade level.
                      1. 0
                        31 May 2019 17: 48
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        It was about Iraq

                        So Iraq. Half-dead after a long war with Iran, the army invades Kuwait. They knock her out. And, actually, that's all. We were afraid to continue. They finished off with sanctions, sudden air strikes, bribed commanders. And only after that they got together and decided .... Finish a half-corpse. But even then managed to repeatedly get rid of him.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        USA DOESN'T DEVELOP DIVISIONS IN LOCAL CONFLICTS MORE.

                        eight)))))))))))))))))
                        Is it really necessary to "deploy divisions" for the sake of using MLRS and army aviation?
                        I would advise you to return once again to your words about the "brigade level"
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        At the same time, art is a means of brigade level.

                        USA DOESN'T DEVELOP TEAMS IN LOCAL CONFLICTS MORE.
                        laughing
                        And for the commander of a motorized infantry company, it’s absolutely monographically who to go out to, a battery from a brigade artillery division or a platoon from a division artillery brigade. They are equally not subordinate to him.
                      2. +2
                        31 May 2019 18: 00
                        Quote: Spade
                        We were afraid to continue

                        Well, they continued in 2003, so what?

                        You do not seem to be aware of a rather simple thing. The army cannot win in principle. She can provide some political solution. If there is no solution, the army can at least get a hold of it. Recent examples: USSR-Afghanistan, USA-Afghanistan. If there is a solution, people who are completely unexpected in terms of the course of hostilities can win. An example is HF.
                        Quote: Spade
                        Half dead after many years of war

                        You, again, do not know what kind of fucking came from the parties concerned from the course of the BVP ground operation.

                        The Wehrmacht is back.
                        Quote: Spade
                        managed to repeatedly get rid of him.

                        Lolshto?
                        Quote: Spade
                        who to go to, a battery from a brigade artillery division or a platoon from a division artillery brigade

                        He does not have a divisional artillery brigade, how much can be repeated. Division assets are managed by the operations headquarters. But the artillery is the brigade headquarters. You are monographically, but the battalion commander is not.
                      3. 0
                        31 May 2019 18: 33
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Well, they continued in 2003, so what?

                        They were frightened that they were fighting a normal army again. We decided to start by non-military means

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        You do not seem to be aware of a rather simple thing. The army cannot win in principle.

                        American, maybe. Others won. For example, the Great Patriotic War. The capital is seized, the head of state is a corpse, what the hell are "political decisions"?

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Lolshto?

                        For example, the epic "Raid on Karbala" How many of the 31 "Apaches" returned intact? Two?
                        The peasant, stunning with a rifle at the downed helicopter, was powerful.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        But the artillery is the brigade headquarters.

                        The brigade, which is not deployed and located in the US? But as? What is the mechanism itself?
                      4. +1
                        31 May 2019 18: 57
                        Quote: Spade
                        They were frightened that they were fighting a normal army again. We decided to start by non-military means

                        Is it the case of Ahmat Haji?
                        Quote: Spade
                        others were winning. For example, the Great Patriotic War. The capital is seized, the head of state is a corpse, what the hell are "political decisions"?

                        1. In Iraq, this is what happened.
                        2. WWII, as well as WWII, is a very vivid example of the fact that military victory does not mean anything at all. The Americans at that time fought against their allies - Germany and Britain, to a lesser extent Japan - on the side of their enemy - the USSR. Especially with Britain it turned out beautifully, Roosevelt considered himself very smart.
                        Politicians win wars. The army may just not lose. Incidentally, this also applies to the role of Comrade Stalin and the multinational Soviet people in the Second World War.
                        Quote: Spade
                        epic "Raid on Karbala"

                        Where did 13 people and 4 pieces of equipment lose? Awful. Zashqvar.
                        Quote: Spade
                        The brigade, which is not deployed and located in the US?

                        This is precisely the brigade under the new charters that is the formation which is to conduct independent combat operations. As before the division.
                      5. -1
                        31 May 2019 19: 10
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Where did 13 people and 4 pieces of equipment lose? Awful. Zashqvar.

                        They say that the Germans at Prokhorovka officially lost two tanks. If the others themselves did not leave, they were able to drag them away.
                        That's right, a remark on the topic "4 lost". By the way, given the almost complete absence of army air defense among the Iraqis and the presence of long-range ATGMs on helicopters, even 4, this is a lot.

                        Then I stop, it's all completely off topic. And you did not convince me of the invincibility of the Americans.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        This is precisely the brigade under the new charters that is the formation which is to conduct independent combat operations. As before the division.


                        All that has changed for the brigades is that they are now permanent. Previously, a battalion was a "single-handed" battalion, and from it brigades were recruited for specific tasks. So these are not arguments.
                      6. -1
                        31 May 2019 19: 21
                        What? Did the Americans abandon the divisions?
                      7. +3
                        1 June 2019 01: 02
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Did the Americans abandon the divisions?

                        Not quite.
                        Previously, the division was a permanent compound, it consisted of permanent battalions and three headquarters brigades, which were formed from battalions depending on the task.

                        Now the largest permanent formation is the brigade, which includes battalions. The brigade, not the division, has a rear. The division has basically become the headquarters structure, which operates with the brigades that are allocated to it. But in OSh they are, 11 pieces. 3 buildings, by the way, also have OSH. But also in the form of headquarters.
                      8. -1
                        1 June 2019 14: 39
                        Hello, we’ve arrived. We look at the staff of 1 PD for 2016 - 2 Tbr, BrAA, rear support team. When did the division manage to lose the rear?
                      9. +1
                        1 June 2019 21: 01
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Hello, we’ve arrived. We look at the staff of 1 PD for 2016 - 2 Tbr, BrAA, rear support team

                        You are right, he expressed himself too radically. There are supporting brigades, most of which (AA and rear support) are listed as divisions (but not always operate as divisions).
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        When did the division manage to lose the rear?

                        It is more correct to say that it was not the division that lost, but the brigade received. The brigade has its own rear support battalion, which is not part of the division support brigade.
                      10. 0
                        2 June 2019 10: 38
                        In the same way, the Russian Armed Forces fought in BTGr in Chechnya and South Ossetia.

                        And what is the rejection of the division?
                        Rather, at the moment, the theater does not need to fully deploy divisions, there are enough brigades.
                      11. +1
                        2 June 2019 11: 52
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        In the same way, the Russian Armed Forces fought in Chechnya and South Ossetia

                        )))
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Rather, at the moment, the theater does not need to fully deploy divisions, there are enough brigades.

                        OK, you can file it like that. Unless the Americans used to have permanent state brigades. And now they are still more often deploying battalions, not brigades.
                      12. 0
                        31 May 2019 22: 59
                        Quote: Spade
                        Half-dead after a long war with Iran, the army invades Kuwait. They knock her out. And, actually, that's all. We were afraid to continue.

                        Bush’s father was much smarter than his son. And his advisers were an order of magnitude smarter. He demanded from the army what the army was for — defeating the enemy army with a mighty blow and little blood. And the army coped brilliantly with this. And the control of the territory is already political / administrative / police tasks. This is not to the army already. Bush did what he had to — he defeated the Iraqi army, freed Kuwait and left Saddam to live his days toothlessly under the Oil For Food program. He could still bark, but he could no longer bite. And his son did a great stupid thing to get into this swamp. since then Americans by the way do not climb to carry these suitcases without a handle anywhere
                      13. 0
                        31 May 2019 17: 51
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        This just proves that the MLRS is the day of the war.

                        Actually, yesterday is shooting at each other from a rifleman. However, the Americans’s defenses have long been sharpened by the confrontation of a bullet, not a fragment.
                      14. +3
                        31 May 2019 18: 02
                        Quote: Spade
                        Actually, yesterday is shooting at each other from a rifleman. However, the Americans’s defenses have long been sharpened by the confrontation of a bullet, not a fragment.

                        1. But they do not protect against fragments, yes?
                        2. Teach Americans local wars to lead.
                      15. 0
                        31 May 2019 18: 13
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        And they do not protect against fragments, right?

                        Worse. The question is in the area of ​​protection. "Anti-bullet" heavy. Therefore, its area is smaller - the most dangerous places are covered. For the anti-splinter system the opposite maximum area.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Teach Americans local wars to lead.

                        Considering that they are steadily losing them, it is necessary to teach. The latter is more or less successful for them - Yugoslavia. Thanks to the special services that organized the "color revolution". And, actually, everything.
                        They "won" in Iraq, like in Vietnam. They escaped. Escaped from Somalia. In Afghanistan at a low start. Afghanistan is generally tough. They got full control over the entire territory of the country from the Northern Alliance. And they managed to screw it up.
                      16. -1
                        31 May 2019 18: 16
                        There is an opinion that in Afghanistan they specifically made problems so that later China, Iran and the Russian Federation would take them apart.
                      17. +3
                        31 May 2019 18: 31
                        Quote: Spade
                        Iraq was "won" as in Vietnam. Escaped

                        Forced to remind.
                        1. Americans still stand in Iraq (and supply through it their part of Syria)
                        2. There, according to the results of the movement, some were hanged. Not Bush.
                        Quote: Spade
                        they are steadily losing them

                        They did not lose a single war. Including Vietnam.

                        They cannot win them. But this is a question for politicians, not the army. The European Union won for them Yugoslavia (or they won for the European Union). The European Union, in contrast to the State Department, knows what to do with this country in 20 years: to chew and digest. At least in the Balkans this is happening gradually.

                        The Americans cannot realize any design that is sustainable after the war. First of all, for internal reasons. The fact that after Iraq they didn’t get anywhere - neither in Libya, nor in Syria, nor in Venezuela - allows us to hope that the essence of the problem reaches them.
                      18. 0
                        31 May 2019 18: 42
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Americans still stand in Iraq

                        They were forced to get there again. And again, they will run away in the same way, without having solved the problems they created with terrorism themselves.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        They did not lose a single war. Including Vietnam.

                        Yeah. They managed to escape before losing. And this is a high art.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        The European Union, in contrast to the State Department, knows what to do with this country in 20 years

                        Yeah. The European Union is simply delighted with the criminal enclave created by the Americans, almost the main supplier of Afghan heroin. Delighted with weapons, delighted with slavery, delighted with the fact that they had almost persuaded the Serbian leadership, and then suddenly American creatures in the leadership of Kosovo lose their shores, casting Europeans back in their work many years ago.
                        They may know what to do. It’s just that the Americans don’t have enough brains to step aside.
                      19. +1
                        31 May 2019 21: 15
                        Quote: Spade
                        the invincibility of the Americans you did not convince me.

                        Poor Americans have already taken Baghdad for you, and they have hanged Saddam, but not enough for you.
                        Quote: Spade
                        All that has changed for the brigades, now they are of constant composition.

                        Exactly. The brigades are permanent, and the divisions are purely staff. The brigade was a situational pool of forces, and became the main combat unit, the maximum combat unit of a permanent composition.
                        Quote: Spade
                        They were forced to re-enter there.

                        They did not get out of there. Just outweigh the flags.
                        Quote: Spade
                        not resolving the problems they created with terrorism themselves.

                        There is no problem with terrorism.
                        Quote: Spade
                        They managed to escape before losing

                        They realized that they were paying the price without buying anything. Admittedly, it came to them for a very long time.
                        Quote: Spade
                        almost the main supplier of Afghan heroin.

                        You will be surprised, but Kosovo and Afghanistan do not have a common border.
                        Quote: Spade
                        delighted with weapons, delighted with slavery, delighted that they almost persuaded the Serbian leadership

                        They taught Americans to wage local wars, now teach the European Union to conduct a policy with savages on its borders.
                        By the way, they lost Kosovo - they found the rest of the former Yugoslavia.
            2. -1
              31 May 2019 13: 43
              Quote: Spade
              the need to make launchers of very shabby tacts from howitzers. rockets

              let them do and saw the Pentagon budget ...
              they’ve already managed with shells for their EI Zumvold - their price is comparable to a rocket, and on howitzers they’ll generally cut amazing amounts ... bully
              1. -1
                31 May 2019 14: 02
                Quote: ser56
                let them do and saw the Pentagon budget ...
                they’ve already managed with shells for their EI Zumvold - their price is comparable to a rocket, and on howitzers they’ll generally cut amazing amounts ...

                Many local commentators simply have this feature. In words, the USA hate fiercely, but at the same time they are fully oriented. In the field of artillery, these are thoughtless demands for abandoning MLRS, an increase in the range of firing of barrel artillery by any means, nagging at guided missiles from the ZhPS.

                And it must be explained that the majority of American "super ideas" are not conditioned by any concern about efficiency.
                1. +1
                  31 May 2019 15: 04
                  Quote: Spade
                  increasing the range of fire of barrel artillery by any means,

                  what for? How to put this achievement into practice? We need intelligence to such a depth, and in real time - but this is only possible against the Papuans! And against them, such shells are expensive! bully
      2. -1
        31 May 2019 08: 53
        Quote: voyaka uh
        And the loitering ammunition? Also "sawed off taxpayers' money."

        Not yet. But against normal armies, it is NOT worth using ALREADY. It turns out to be useless.
        After all, as it became recently known, the Israelis also took part in ensuring the protection of the US army from UAVs, right?

        As a result, the weaponry advertised as a wunderwaff turns into a very niche thing. Which is nowhere to use, but expensive to apply.
  4. +1
    30 May 2019 20: 21
    Why wasn’t the Coalition at the parade?
  5. 0
    30 May 2019 22: 14
    The self-propelled turret in the photo resembles a "tiger" tower (if you don't look closely)
  6. +1
    30 May 2019 22: 14
    ... First of all, the fire control systems are being improved, which will provide increased firing accuracy ......
    .. The 155 mm IM HE-ER shells are complemented by lighting, smoke and training shells, which also have interchangeable BB or HB units. The 155-mm lighting projectile is available in two versions: white and infrared (IR), the first lasting 60 seconds, and the second 90 seconds. The 155mm light contains three red phosphor canisters with brake valves, which are said to make them effective in deep snow and swamp. The 155-mm training projectile was qualified and is available in two versions: inert, without the use of energy or with a small charge to detect explosives.

    --For translation - sorry hi
  7. -2
    31 May 2019 11: 11
    The "Coalition" appeared with a firing range of 65-70 - immediately in the United States they remembered the "shelved" developments on the Crusader: both a long-barreled gun and a new projectile and an automated ammunition rack.
  8. 0
    2 June 2019 06: 13
    Comrades! You crawled into politics a lot ... There are questions about this work, and much more urgent than the use of MLRS by North Korea. The barrel length is 58 calibers with a firing range of 40 km with a basic HE projectile (for American artillery), controlled at 62 km and experimental at 72 km. The first question: what is the wear resistance of an extremely long and fortified barrel? A barrel of this type is very expensive to manufacture and its resource is critical for this very reason. Question two: do they have adjustment tables for such distances? Without them, shooting at 62-72 km is money down the drain. The effectiveness of such a fire will be depressingly low. Question three: what is the amazing effectiveness of the new projectile, taking into account the inevitable reduction in explosive mass in warheads, and is there any combat use for it in general? Fourth question: is there any niche for such an installation in the tactical and strategic doctrines of the US Armed Forces? Thanks in advance for the logical and verified comments.

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