Russian Navy against the United States and the West. Example from recent operations

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In addition to the bitter truth, we need positive examples, and we have them.

No matter how many problems with Russian naval construction it becomes known, it is always worth remembering the main thing: the Navy is vital for Russia to be able to conduct at least some kind of policy in the world. Not fleet - there is no policy, there is no way to achieve the realization of the interests of the state anywhere.



The recent past, so recent that it flows into the present, gives us an example of how the Russian Navy, for all its problems, in fact has defended Russian foreign policy interests, having simply played a strategic role not only in Russian foreign policy, but also it seems in the newest stories as a whole.

We are talking about the role the Navy played in the epochal event of recent years - the war in Syria.

No matter who and what thinks about it, but if it were not for the Navy, then Syria would not exist as such. There would not have been our base in Tartus, the base in Hmeimim, Bashar Assad, the Christian community that has preserved Aramaic, spoken in those parts during Jesus’s time, women who allow themselves to walk openly along the street, millennial cultural monuments - nothing was gone.

The beginning of confrontation


Now few people remember how it all began. It is worth refreshing your memory.

International Business Times, 12 July 2012 of the year.

Thursday Russian news The Interfax service, quoting anonymous sources in the country's Ministry of Defense, said that Russian warships were leaving ports in Europe and the Arctic to arrive in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, and that some of them had a port of Tartus in Syria as their destination. Eleven ships, including five large landing vehicles, four of which are capable of carrying 200 soldiers and ten each tanksand the fifth - twice as much, will make the transition from the Arctic, Baltic and Black Seas to conduct exercises in the Atlantic and the Mediterranean Sea. Russian news agencies claim that one of the destroyers, “Shrewd” from the Black Sea Fleet, will reach Tartus in three days. Two large vehicles, Nikolai Filchenkov and Caesar Kunnikov (the latter participated in the war with Georgia in 2008), are also expected from the Black Sea, although it is not known whether they will go to Syria ...

RIA Novosti reports that the Admiral Chabanenko, a modern destroyer, and three landing ships, Alexander Otrakovsky, George the Victorious and Kondopoga, will leave the fleet base in Arctic Murmansk. Interfax claims that they will all make a call to Tartus, although it is still unknown whether they are recruiting Marines, and if so, will they remain in Syria ...

Analysts have already questioned the messages of “Interfax” and other agencies that announced in June about the direction of the ships to Tartus, regarding them as “HYIP” and unreliable information ...

The US State Department issued on Tuesday a statement that the US hopes that the visit of Russian ships to Syria will be limited to the execution of their refueling ...


The Americans were late quite a bit. Then, in 2012, fights were already going on in Damascus itself. The city was only partially controlled by the government, and Asma-al-Assad explained to her children that the children of Bashar al-Assad could not miss school due to some kind of mortar attacks.

And at this last moment, when it would seem that the forces were no longer there, help came. Landing ships as transports. Little weapons, a bit of ammunition, a few spare parts and these friendly people from the north, whose fathers once helped to fight with Israel ... that was enough so that then, in 2012, everything did not end in the same catastrophe as in Libya.

West was late, but he was not going to surrender. The BDK flights from Novorossiysk to Tartus did not keep the secret for a long time about their cargo, very soon everything became clear. And then in the United States, it was decided to crush Syria "in the open", since the organization of the preposition (chemical attack) didn’t work.


Decor on 31 August 2013. In a few days, the Moskva missile cruiser will do.


And by the time this provocation took place, the NATO naval strike team was already forming at sea. By August, 2013 West had gathered forces for a fairly large-scale rocket attack, which would help the militants finally break the remnants of resistance from government forces. Five American destroyers, a landing ship, a nuclear submarine of the US Navy, another nuclear submarine of the British Navy and a French frigate - a set of countries wanting indirectly, but openly to shed blood in Syria, was formed already and especially since then has not changed. This group also had enough cruise missiles.

By September, the AUG of six ships, including the aircraft carrier Nimitz, was brought up to the Red Sea, along with the UDS Kirsardzh - the “hero” of the wars in Yugoslavia and Libya, where this ship acted as a light aircraft carrier.

But on their way were three Russian warships, the BOD Admiral Panteleyev, the missile cruiser Moscow and another warship, and also the reconnaissance Priazovie, theoretically capable of warning everyone in advance about the launch crew of the American missiles, and the BDK laden weapons for the fighting Syrian army. These forces would not have been enough to stop the Western armada, but, first, the United States understood that everything would not be limited to the Mediterranean Sea, and secondly, the existence of nuclear weapons on board Russian ships was in question. That is, generally speaking, it should not have been there. Neither we nor the Americans have been deploying it at sea for many years (with the exception of ballistic missiles on submarines). But nobody fully decided to guarantee this in those days ...


BOD "Admiral Panteleev"


And then Putin threw Obama a bone in the form of the joint elimination of the Syrian chemical weapons, and he, not seeing a reasonable way out, grabbed it and played it back. This was won two years - until September 2015. And Syria was saved. Rescued by the Navy of the Russian Federation. And he also saved for Russia the possibility of a political return to the Arab world and the Middle East.

2012-2013 Event Analysis


The operations of the Russian fleet in the Mediterranean, aimed at disrupting the strike on Syria and ensuring the supply of weapons and supplies for the Syrian army, were a typical example of “peacetime operations” (see article "The Navy: the choice of a balance between preparation for hostilities and peacetime tasks") Those forces that the Navy used, without the use of nuclear weapons, could not resist the United States and NATO. And in the event of a submarine attack or base aviation and with nuclear weapons they couldn’t.

But then the Navy relied on the protection that the Russian flag gave the ships, and that the risks of an attack against them in NATO could not be regarded as very high. In any case, at least one American destroyer could have gone to the bottom in this case, which was politically unacceptable at that time. Yes, the submarine in a fight with the BOD could lose.

And most importantly, Russia could strike retaliation in any other place, even in Alaska. And the West has stopped.

From the autumn of 2013, the grouping of the Navy ships acted as a Permanent operational connection of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean.

It should also be noted the role of the fleet in supplying the Syrian army - it was also of critical importance for the latter. The fleet has been criticized for using amphibious ships to deliver material and technical equipment to Syria - their payload is low, and flights on the Syrian Express have significantly reduced their lifespan.

But we must understand that there was no choice. Initially, the Department of Transportation Services of the Ministry of Defense was supposed to deal with deliveries, but he said that he could not. In addition, it was obvious that merchant ships under civilian flag would sooner or later face a blockade of Syria by NATO naval forces. The inspection of the ship “Chariot” with cartridges and the “turn” of the ship “Alaid” with helicopters by the British completely “set the trend”. In such circumstances, there simply is no other force left except for the Navy, capable of taking on the delivery of weapons and ammunition to Syria, with the guarantee that no foreign military will board the ships. And the fleet had only BDK and various auxiliary vessels - kilctors and the like. In the end, what they could, so they were taken.

Russian Navy against the United States and the West. Example from recent operations

BDK "Saratov on the delivery of goods to Syria



Kilector KIL-158 also stayed transport. Having received a "not his" task, the fleet got out as best he could


Were the fleet actions successful? Yes, more than. It was, as the Americans say, “a blow to a larger weight category,” the Navy actually completed the task with absolutely insufficient forces. Would our ships survive if it came to a clash? No, but in those conditions it was not required. It is also worth noting that the tasks of countering the policy of the United States and its allies were performed either simply by ships of the ocean zone (RKR, BOD), or by ships of the far sea zone, which in practice proved their ability to move in the open ocean (BDK, TFR). Syria and our policy were not saved by RTOs, and not missile boats, but completely different ships.

On this the role of the fleet, however, was not even close.

Syrian Express and missile strikes


Until now, BDK flights continue to play a vital role in the supply of both our group in Syria and the Syrian army. Although the DTO has long since “woken up,” although full-fledged transport ships, including the powerful Sparta, appeared on the express line, and OBL-Logistic, created by the Ministry of Defense, took over the transportation, it is still not possible to do without BDK.

And in previous years it was just unreal. It would not be an exaggeration to say that the BDK turned out to be one of the most useful ships in the fleet. This, of course, does not mean that it is necessary to do so in the future, but it shows the vital role of high-speed military transports, controlled not by any structures, but by the navy itself, which, having weapons for self-defense and guaranteed naval flagged immunity in international waters could be thrown at solving problems immediately, by order. In fact, the existence in the Navy of the “equivalent” of such ships saved the whole country, and we have just seen how.

From October 7 2015, the Navy began striking at the terrorists' targets with Caliber cruise missiles. Initially, strikes were made by small rocket ships of the Caspian flotilla, but later they were joined by ships of the Black Sea Fleet (for example, frigates of the 11356 project) and diesel-electric submarines. Although these strikes had no fundamental military significance, they had enormous political significance. With these blows, Russia has shown that it has a “long arm,” which is quite capable of reaching the territories that our opponents considered safe, including the US military infrastructure in the Persian Gulf, and the British in Cyprus. A somewhat contradictory was the use of small missile ships of the 21361 "Buyan-M" project as carriers of cruise missiles. On the one hand, their tactical and technical characteristics made it possible in the event of a “big” war to “hide” them in the depths of Russian territory, on inland waterways, and also to maneuver them between the Caspian and Black Seas, which undoubtedly gives considerable military advantages. On the other hand, in the far sea zone, the ships proved to be not so good (and they had to act there), they are defenseless against air strikes, submarines, and require protection from surface ships of other classes - but they do not have sufficient seaworthiness and speed, to maneuver with them without restriction. As a result, they had to be taken to combat services in the Mediterranean. Nevertheless, the “wake-up call” for the West turned out to be very loud and many “hotheads” with these blows cooled down.


Launch of the Caliber cruise missile from the board of the Dagestan rocket ship of the Caspian Flotilla


And the use of submarines and frigates for such strikes, capable of acting without restrictions in the far-sea zone, finally and irreversibly "consolidated" the effect achieved by the first strikes with the interregional radio stations. It became clear that, technically, Russia could reach its cruise missiles very far, even in a non-nuclear variant.

It was worth, of course, to modernize the old patrol of the 1135 and 1135М projects - Ladny and Inquisitive. The volumes that on these ships are occupied by the “Rastrub” PLRK, the Kubrick and the underwater acoustics located under it can be used to accommodate the PU 3С-14, which will arm these ships not only with PLUR, but also with other Caliber missiles. This would increase the number of surface ships of the DMZ on the Black Sea Fleet - carriers of “Calibrov” to five. Naturally, this would have to be done along with the repair and extension of the service life of these ships. So far, however, this question has not been raised.

Anyway, the Navy made a contribution here.

American strikes and their correlation with the strength of the Navy


Arrogant strikes of the United States by cruise missiles on Syrian military and civilian objects did not leave anyone indifferent, although generally speaking, one would expect that the Americans would not so easily release the almost dead victim from their claws, and the daring newcomer - Russia - would not be allowed to do everything freely what pleases. This did not happen, but the American strikes have an important aspect.

7 April 2017, at the time of the US Navy launching a missile attack on Shairat airbase, there were no warships on the Syrian coast. Only after the attack, the command urgently sent the frigate “Admiral Grigorovich” to the Mediterranean and followed by a pair of IRAs.

At the time of the next American strike, delivered jointly with Britain and France, 14 on April 2018, there were only two frigates and two diesel submarines in the region, which was generally incomparable with the forces of the West.

The most interesting thing started after.

The Americans, during the provocations inspired by their allies "on the ground", were convinced that among their own population the level of trust in media reports was still high, and even such absurd accusations as were the result of the actions of the so-called Whites in Douma (Eastern Guta ), the population of the United States and Western countries completely "eats".

Immediately after the April strike, preparations began for a new provocation. From press reports of the time:

"Look", 3 May 2018 of the year.

With the participation of US intelligence in the Al-Jafra oil field near the US military base in Deir ez-Zor, a new provocation is being prepared with allegedly using chemical weapons, an informed source associated with Syrian special services said. "The US intelligence agencies in Syria are planning provocations using prohibited substances," a source told RIA Novosti. According to him, the operation is led by a former militant of the Islamic State terrorist group [prohibited in the Russian Federation] Mishan Idriz Al Hamash.


There was a lot of such news later, the Ministry of Defense tracked both the delivery of chemical warfare agents to Syria, and the preparation of both the terrorists and their owners, the Americans, for a new provocation, which in their opinion should have been as successful as the previous one. To put in place these Russians, to thwart their plans, to prevent them from concluding alliances - who needs such an ally, for an alliance with which Tomahawks fall on their heads? But this time it did not work out.

Since August, 2018, when rumors were already circulating in Washington about a new upcoming strike on Syria, Russia began to deploy in the Mediterranean Sea a naval group of such a force that was not there for a very long time.

The following were sent to the Mediterranean Sea: RKR Marshal Ustinov, BOD Severomorsk, frigates Admiral Grigorovich, Admiral Essen, Admiral Makarov, TFR Pytlivy, three caliber missiles with Caliber missiles capable of the Syrian coast reach almost any target in the Mediterranean, two diesel submarines.


"Marshal Ustinov" and "Severomorsk" go to the Mediterranean Sea


VCS aircraft from the Hmeimim airbase began to carry out demonstrative flights over French ships with suspended anti-ship missiles, and Su-30CM naval aviation flew over the Hmeimim base itself.

Since the end of August, the group began the exercise, and the aircraft performed a demonstration sinking with a missile strike of the old Syrian TFR skeleton.


X-35 rockets strike, according to the old TFR of the 159 project

And everything died down. There was no provocation with chemical weapons, there was no attack on Syria. Never happened again.

You can agree with the role of the fleet, and you can dispute it, but the fact is obvious: there is no naval grouping in the eastern part of the Mediterranean - there are American missile strikes. There is such a group - there are no strikes, and there is not even a hint of them, and with the apparent desire of the enemy to inflict them.

Admittedly, the combat structure of the group was far from balanced, so obvious "weak point" was its anti-submarine defense, the ability of low-crossing ICC class "Buyan-M" to maneuver together with the rest of the squadron at high speed (if it were needed) was "in question" , but as a demonstration of power, the operation was completely successful, and the attenuation of the topic with a new attack on Syria is clear evidence of that.

Conclusions


During the ongoing civil war in the Syrian Arab Republic and the international terrorist intervention inspired by the United States and its allies, the Russian Navy played a decisive role in preventing the defeat of the Syrian government. The navy did not allow a missile strike on the Syrian army at critical moments of 2013, provided all the necessary military transportation, inflicted significant, politically important missile attacks from a long distance, and finally prevented another US missile attack. .

At the same time, it is an obvious fact that if there is a significant number of warships of the Russian Federation in the region, especially missile cruisers, the United States and its allies behave very restrained and do not conduct any provocations.

Thus, the Russian Navy proved to be a vital tool both for saving the Syrian Arab Republic and for supplying its armed forces, without which this country would have already died at the moment.

The events around Syria in the 2012-2018 years very clearly show the role that the Navy plays in the country's foreign policy.

They also show that no coastal forces, no mosquito fleet is simply not capable of playing the same role: the Americans are obviously pressing tail only when there is a BOD in the region, which their submariners are still afraid of, and the missile cruiser. The presence of some frigates, even if capable of delivering strikes with Caliber cruise missiles, does not stop them. NATO also painfully reacts to aircraft armed with anti-ship missiles.

Yes, the composition of the groupings of the Navy was not perfect - and because of the IRAs, and because of the minesweepers requiring urgent modernization, due to the lack of anti-submarine defense, and the number could sometimes be larger, but even in this form of the Navy War performed more than completely. And the naval aviation would not prevent and "Onyx" air-based, and more modern anti-submarine aircraft. But after the sinking of the target ship, the enemy had already subsided without it.

And this is quite a proof of the necessity for Russia of both the ocean fleet (cruisers and BOD came from other oceans) and naval aviation, including attack (assault). It would be desirable, of course, that in the event of a “breakdown” of the situation from a show of force to a real clash, we would always and in all cases be “put on the table.” In principle, this is solved.

In the future, if Russia has its own independent policy in the world, then there must be a fleet corresponding to this policy.

And no matter what happens to him now, we all should believe that she will have it, and actively pursue this, not yielding to either “dizzy with success” or calls to go “under the coast”, limited to rocket boats and coastal rocket complexes.

And then everything will work out.
259 comments
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  1. -46
    30 May 2019 06: 06
    And the conclusions are really the following: if the Americans have a desire to gasp: neither the presence of a navy off the coast of Syria, nor the base in Khmeimim, nor even the presence of Russian ichthamnes as a target (Dier-ez-zor) helps. Minus one.
    1. +29
      30 May 2019 06: 25
      I would replace only one word "zhahnut" with "die" and the rest of the rhetoric will change dramatically.
      1. 0
        30 May 2019 06: 31
        Again, as practice has shown: the replacement is unequal. In all cases of strikes inflicted on Syria (by the United States or Israel), the Russian Armed Forces pretended that they had nothing to do with it, Assad is not our ally, we are not obliged to protect him, and indeed the curvature of the earth interferes. This is despite the loud statements that preceded such a diving into the bushes in the spirit of "we will shoot down the cr and their carriers." The Russian VPR has no desire to fight the West (there is also capital, children, grandchildren). So about "die" - calm down, do not risk it.
        1. +23
          30 May 2019 06: 36
          And Westerners are directly eager to fight? I doubt very much, otherwise they would have started long ago. So I absolutely agree with you, because of the fear of dying, they will not risk it.
          1. +1
            30 May 2019 06: 47
            No, do not burn. In principle, they are trying to solve most problems without open aggression. But sometimes there is no way out - then it comes to the Tomahawks. They do not want (as I understand it) a war with Russia, let alone a nuclear war. But at the same time, they understand that they are not ready in Russia and do not want to start a war with the West over Syria or over a hundred or two PMCs. Therefore, we have what we have: the Russian Federation makes the 101st last Chinese warning, and the same USA and Israel, like the cat Vaska: listens and eats, i.e. continue to bomb Syria as they wish / need. Something can change only if they decide to bomb, say, Khmeimim - then yes, in self-defense we can snap back. And, most likely, it is very local, in the framework of the theater.
            1. +3
              30 May 2019 06: 58
              It is a pity that you do not have anyone in PMCs, you think a hundred and another. These are people, and you are petty nonhumans.
              1. +10
                30 May 2019 07: 11
                You're not right. These are people and our citizens. Yes, I do not really understand those who kill for money, but ... With all the conventions: today there is such a profession, and it is in demand. In principle, I am sorry that we have not yet adopted a law on PMCs, and therefore the use of these people is semi-legal (or completely illegal). Therefore, when I write about "a hundred or two PMC-schniks" - it is more about the attitude of our state towards these people, whose death is hushed up, denied, and is not even considered as a reason for any, at least diplomatic, claims.
                1. +4
                  30 May 2019 12: 37
                  The law does not apply to PMCs wink If the company operates in Syria, then the legislation of the host country and international matters.
                  1. +1
                    5 June 2019 07: 31
                    You, obviously, are not a lawyer, otherwise you would have known that a citizen of the Russian Federation is responsible for crimes committed outside the territory of the Russian Federation.
                    1. 0
                      5 June 2019 07: 51
                      Read the notes to Article 359 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
                      1. 0
                        5 June 2019 13: 01
                        Read Article 12 of the Criminal Code. Being a mercenary doesn’t mean doing whatever you want. With the fact that a citizen of the Russian Federation is obliged to comply with the law of the Russian Federation, even abroad to argue, as I understand it, will not you?
                      2. 0
                        5 June 2019 13: 21
                        Again. Read the note about who is a mercenary and who is not.
                      3. 0
                        5 June 2019 15: 12
                        Well, what do you want to tell me about? That they are not mercenaries, for they act in the interests of the Russian Federation?
                      4. 0
                        5 June 2019 16: 04
                        No, it's not in Russia. They are not mercenaries, because they perform official duties.
                      5. 0
                        5 June 2019 16: 59
                        2 points: who sent them there officially? And you understand that if there is no "mercenary" squad, this does not mean that there is no other squad? I will add on the 1st: every time the names of PMCs in Syria emerge, the Russian Federation denies them. Tourists, they say.
                      6. 0
                        5 June 2019 17: 19
                        No one, the customer hired them.
                        T.N. PMC Wagner is being persecuted for political reasons, formally for direct participation in hostilities.
                      7. +1
                        5 June 2019 17: 59
                        Well, that is, they are fighting for money, no one officially sent them there, they themselves are not Syrians: neither by citizenship, nor by nationality, but by place of residence. It’s quite a mercenary for the Criminal Code. De jure. And about the prosecution of Wagner - very interesting. If it does not complicate: please tell us where such information came from.
                      8. 0
                        5 June 2019 19: 18
                        You are now confusing proxies that work on the basis of Russian-Syrian agreements and are called PMCs and commercial PMCs that make money, such as RSB-Group. Neither category falls into the category of mercenaries, learn the law, everything is clearly said there.
                      9. +1
                        6 June 2019 07: 16
                        The law (Article 359 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) clearly states that a person who fights in a foreign country for money who was not officially sent there is a mercenary. If you have any other law - please share, very interesting. PS And about the "persecution" of Wagner for political reasons, will there be anything other than words?
                      10. 0
                        6 June 2019 08: 57
                        In the same article there is a note, a person performing official duties does not apply to mercenaries. For example, LUKOIL’s daughter is developing the West Qurna-2 field in Iraq, and hires the Russian PMC to protect personnel. To ensure crew safety, the Russian shipping company employs contractors, a team arrives, rents weapons on the shore or in the ship-warehouse (there is such a service) and part of the route is on the ship. Damn, about this even shoot videos, find in Yandex 5 seconds. People work absolutely openly (recruit, train people, have a head office) in Russia, all the difference is that PMCs are registered abroad, and in Russia they are de jure listed as private security companies.
                        In Russia, "Wagnerians" are not persecuted, according to your logic, who are they?
              2. +11
                30 May 2019 08: 44
                Quote: Ros 56
                It is a pity that you do not have anyone in PMCs, you think a hundred and another.

                It is a pity that the country's leadership "has no one in the PMC."

                And therefore, "think, a hundred or two" cannot in any way affect the relationship between "partners"
                1. +19
                  30 May 2019 11: 22
                  Yes, there were no hundreds calm down already.
                  1. +11
                    30 May 2019 12: 31
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Yes, there were no hundreds calm down already.

                    You cannot be sure that there were "no hundreds".
                    At the same time, the fact remains: the Americans killed the citizens of Russia for almost three hours. Carrying out together with the citizens of Syria the fight against terrorists in the territory of this very Syria.
                    And they were not at all afraid of the consequences. And even the legendary all-conquering Russian Navy did not help the dead.
                    As indicated by ares1988. For which he was instructed by cons offended by the truth.
                    1. +14
                      30 May 2019 12: 53
                      You cannot be sure that there were "no hundreds".


                      The son of my colleague participated in that fight. So I can.
                      1. -4
                        30 May 2019 13: 07
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        The son of my colleague participated in that fight. So I can.

                        Well, and how is he pleased with the fact that they didn’t give a damn about them so much? Including all the victorious Russian Navy?
                      2. +11
                        30 May 2019 13: 11
                        You are not in the subject at all
                      3. 0
                        30 May 2019 13: 21
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        You are not in the subject at all

                        Well, of course. The Americans did not attack, they did not kill anyone, the fleet helped. Hurray to the fleet that defeated Syria.

                        I went for a fork, remove noodles from my ears
                      4. +5
                        31 May 2019 12: 49
                        And what was there if you were in the subject?
                      5. 0
                        5 June 2019 07: 44
                        So enlighten. Or, again, secrecy does not allow?) In wartime, the value of Pi can reach 4x, but your civil mathematicians may know this)
                      6. +2
                        31 May 2019 16: 05
                        Quote: Spade
                        Well, and how is he pleased with the fact that they didn’t give a damn about them so much? Including all the victorious Russian Navy?

                        What nafig their? This is PMC, that is Private a military company and it has nothing to do with the Russian Navy, be it at least the whole personnel the former Russian generals, admirals, and even presidents. Or do you think if I now join the PMC and go to partisan in the United States \ China \ ... then the Navy should help me with rocket attacks? fool
                        I am not against PMCs as operating in the territory of the Russian Federation (yeah, yeah, there are such, for example, bandits help to drive criminals in the Caucasus) and outside the Russian Federation. BUT the official army should not fight for them, they should fight instead of the army where it is not profitable for them.
                      7. 0
                        5 June 2019 07: 47
                        I then naively thought that the Russian Armed Forces should, as it were, protect its citizens ...
                      8. +4
                        31 May 2019 13: 02
                        And I have the son of my mother’s girlfriend. Honestly - your proof, well, such a thing ...
                    2. +5
                      30 May 2019 17: 20
                      But didn’t they kill American citizens in Syria? And in general, what are you calling for a war between Russia and the United States? Who will benefit from this war - only not those who are fighting, so leave these howls, Russia did everything in Syria that was possible at that time and did not get involved in a large-scale feud with the Arab world. And the fleet, of course, played a significant role in this operation, and therefore its further development should take into account the experience gained in Syria.
                      1. +3
                        30 May 2019 19: 05
                        Quote: turbris
                        But didn’t they kill American citizens in Syria?

                        These are their problems.
                        Quote: turbris
                        And in general, what are you calling for a war between Russia and the United States?

                        There are no calls here. Simply statements about the fact that "our fleet defeated the Americans" in the light of everything that actually happened is not particularly adequate.
                      2. +1
                        31 May 2019 12: 48
                        Quote: Spade
                        Simply statements about the fact that "our fleet defeated the Americans" in the light of everything that actually happened is not particularly adequate.

                        Do not smack nonsense, Shovels. The article discusses the need and usefulness of the fleet for Russia and an example of the fleet solving tasks, albeit with insufficient forces and with an insufficiently balanced grouping, but at the same time it is quite effective.
                        And the conclusion in the article is correct - the fleet needs ships of the far sea and ocean zones, and not MRKs and coast guard boats. By the way, and in the senior management, the necessary conclusions have been made - the construction of a large series of 22350 and 22350M, as well as a large displacement tank of increased displacement, has been announced. As well as conclusions about the development of combat and patrol \ submarine naval aviation.

                        And do not sing along with the voyager provocateur.
                        By the way, my friend also had a friend in that mess near Deir Ez-Zor ... And as far as I know, the answer for that mess was also there, but in other places with already American ichtamnets.
                      3. +3
                        2 June 2019 01: 02
                        Quote: bayard
                        By the way, my friend also had a friend in that mess near Deir Ez-Zor ... And as far as I know, the answer for that mess was also there, but in other places with already American ichtamnets.

                        I would not like to offend anyone, but according to information from open sources, I personally got the impression that it was "by the hands of Wagner PMCs" (as they say "into the dark") an attempt was made, "wring out "oil fields / loading stations / refineries" that were "even prudently / in advance", but in the controlled area of ​​responsibility of the US Army (and this is their plus, since they are strategically outplayed economic zones of responsibility already at the start)?!
                        I suspect that the leadership of the Russian Federation gave its tacit consent to this dubious adventure in the form of an unwritten order, to "wring out", for the military could not understand that bringing to such an operation in a foreign zone of responsibility, a regular army under the flag of the Russian Federation, would not entail a military crisis. And then already the yoke of the provocateur from the Russian Federation... It is for this reason that Wagner PMCs were used, as not a subject of the Russian Federation, and then, after a direct failure, they decided to treacherously disown themselves, which does not honor either the leadership of the Russian Federation as a whole, or its military representatives in the person of the Ministry of Defense the latter, it was they (some of their representatives, and apparently there are officers with a sense of duty and notions of honor) who tried to "localize" the failed operation, when the guys from the PMC had already "ended up in HELL", to take out the victims, and provide for most of them (for I am not sure that all) worthy help and treatment at the expense of the state. But, from this whole story, - here the main motive is the matter in principle ?! State really wanted fuck / wring part of the oil / oil refining obviously profitable business located in someone else's controlled territory, and not shining, and without going into details - namely, this - DIRTY GAME !!!!
                      4. +4
                        2 June 2019 01: 27
                        The war is generally a dirty thing, especially such as in Syria.
                        Of course you are right, it was an attempt to "squeeze" the oil refinery, moreover, by agreement with the Kurds ... But it turned out to be a trap and a demonstrative beating of our and Syrian proxies. They didn’t even have MANPADS ... Although many were targeted at night from MANPADS ... Most were from Donbass ...
                        But the thesis that
                        Quote: Vl Nemchinov
                        The state really wanted to fuck / squeeze out part of the oil-producing / oil-refining obviously profitable business located in someone else's controlled territory

                        ... There still were business interests and an attempt to return Syrian assets. Although the United States controls these territories, no one called them there, and the Russian contingent is called there (like PMCs) and legally ...
                        But there the whole war is so dirty ...
                        And the answer came to them (as far as I know) in other places, when the Kyrgyz Republic and aviation covered a number of camps and headquarters where the US special forces were ... "who happened to be there by chance."
                        Of course, no one had malicious intent against partners from the United States.
                      5. 0
                        5 June 2019 07: 57
                        Where and when? I would like specifics.
                      6. 0
                        5 June 2019 07: 39
                        Proof will be?)
                      7. -1
                        5 June 2019 07: 36
                        I agree. The fleet was there as scenery, we are not going to fight with the USA, they understand this - and therefore it is unlikely that the presence of our ships near Syria somehow affected the decisions made by the USA.
                  2. 0
                    5 June 2019 07: 32
                    How much was it?
            2. -1
              30 May 2019 10: 55
              Quote: ares1988
              And, most likely, it is very local, in the framework of the theater.

              Sorry? And what are you going to snarl at this theater, if there is a decision of partners to make Khimki? Gauges, or something, to launch from the Caspian Sea?
              1. +23
                30 May 2019 11: 23
                The only reason why Russia has not yet been "hung" on this or that theater of operations is that it can transfer the escalation to another.
                1. +3
                  30 May 2019 11: 49
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  The only reason why Russia has not yet been "hung" on this or that theater of operations

                  That there are no tasks requiring such measures. The principle of the elusive Joe.

                  Let me remind you that now the States are pretending that they do not like the Iranians, but no one except the Jews in Syria (and Lebanon) touches them.
                  1. +9
                    30 May 2019 12: 26
                    That there are no tasks requiring such measures. The principle of the elusive Joe.


                    Periodically happens. Take at least the idea of ​​bombing the Roki tunnel in 2008.
                    It's just that even if such tasks arise, the factor of possible escalation will not go anywhere. And without his early parrying, nothing good will come of "hanging".
                    1. 0
                      30 May 2019 12: 56
                      Quote: timokhin-aa
                      Take at least the idea of ​​bombing the Roki Tunnel in 2008.

                      Whose idea? The cowboy had indicated in advance that he would not fit.
                      1. +2
                        30 May 2019 12: 57
                        But the proposal was made by a cowboy.
                      2. 0
                        30 May 2019 13: 34
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        the proposal was made by the cowboy.

                        1. And what?
                        2. Who contributed?
                2. +3
                  31 May 2019 04: 39
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  The only reason why Russia has not yet been "hung" on one or another theater in that it can transfer the escalation to another.

                  The only reason? Yes, there are at least two reasons.
                  The first. The presence of a nuclear triad, which can be used if the "hanging" becomes so intense that it will threaten the sovereignty and the Russian statehood itself. And you, as a colleague of a father whose son took part in the battles in Syria, should know this.
                  The second.The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have sufficiently effective weapons to enhance the degree of defeat of the enemy in any theater of operations. And what measures can be taken against illegal armed American forces on Syrian territory (without notice), one can only guess.
                  The only reason why Russia continues to be tested for strength, subjected to "ridicule", provoked by the calls of NATO (US) warships into the Black and Baltic Seas, you indicated correctly:
                  They also show that no coastal forces, no mosquito fleet is simply not capable of playing the same role: the Americans are obviously pressing tail only when there is a BOD in the region, which their submariners are still afraid of, and the missile cruiser. The presence of some frigates, even if capable of delivering strikes with Caliber cruise missiles, does not stop them. NATO also painfully reacts to aircraft armed with anti-ship missiles.
                  1. +1
                    5 June 2019 17: 18
                    Actually, Americans entering the Black and Baltic Seas do not violate any international laws and have every right to do so. Only illiterate journalists who suck the sensation out of their fingers consider this a provocation, no one is testing Russia for strength, professionals know the balance of power and recognize it. Calls are just a demonstration of support to NATO member countries and nothing more.
                3. +5
                  31 May 2019 12: 43
                  I totally agree. "Another theater of operations" may turn out to be "financial and legal". This is when family members of our officials living abroad will be interrogated for tax evasion, drug possession, illegal financial transactions (real or imaginary), and will begin to impose arrests on real estate and accounts. And this is a terrible nuclear war for them. Therefore, for the sake of peace on earth, it is better to be silent in a rag.
                  1. +2
                    2 June 2019 00: 58
                    Quote: Tavrik
                    I totally agree. "Another theater of operations" may turn out to be "financial and legal". This is when family members of our officials living abroad will be interrogated for tax evasion, drug possession, illegal financial transactions (real or imaginary), and will begin to impose arrests on real estate and accounts.

                    Exactly. In 2017, a law “on criminal finance” was adopted in England. The text of this document introduced the concept of “wealth of unexplained origin”, which will be subject to seizure in favor of the state treasury.
                    And as you know, the origin of the capital of our so-called "elite" is always inexplicable. And it is easier for them to drain the country than to lose the capital acquired by "honest" labor. You have to feed your children with something, who have long been in England and with all their "patriotism" called the Russian Federation - "rashka". And I don’t want to lose $ 10-15 million in "huts".
                    And if they receive orders to merge the project, which is important for the Russian Federation, to slow down the adoption of a decision, or vice versa to push through a decision, they will do everything as they say. They will also creep, waiting for new orders, so that the boss was satisfied.
                4. 0
                  5 June 2019 07: 59
                  And it may wipe itself off, confining itself to tomatoes or formidable warnings that the whole world will notice. Do you need examples?
              2. 0
                5 June 2019 07: 38
                Khimki - a typo?
                1. 0
                  5 June 2019 10: 14
                  Quote: ares1988
                  Khimki

                  The name Hmeimima is popular in some Zhezhechki.
                  1. 0
                    5 June 2019 13: 18
                    Got it, didn't know. I believe that in the event that the United States suddenly decides to make a hakeime (it seems to me that such a scenario is extremely unlikely), the degree / strength of our response within the framework of a TVD will greatly depend on how timely such an attack is detected , and it’s also determined that its purpose is precisely himeim.
                    1. +1
                      5 June 2019 13: 23
                      Quote: ares1988
                      then the degree / strength of our response within the framework of the TVD will greatly depend on

                      There is nothing to answer in the framework of the theater. By the standards of large - Turkey, Israel and the coalition - Russia has nothing at all there.
                      1. 0
                        5 June 2019 15: 22
                        I seem to understand what you mean. In such a scenario, if we are lucky and detect the attack in time and determine that the whole is khmeimim and tartus, then the whole answer will be - several anti-ship missiles, yes, maybe we will have time to lift several planes. I understand that this is "about nothing", that's why I used the term "snap back". In general, it seems to me that in this scenario, ours will be focused not on the defeat of carriers, but on the defeat of weapons, I apologize for the tautology.
            3. 0
              30 May 2019 13: 44
              Quote: ares1988
              RF makes 101st last Chinese warning

              When did the Russian Federation give the United States or Israel a warning?
              1. +4
                2 June 2019 01: 15
                It seems to me that it goes on all the time. And it looks / sounds like "extreme concern"The modern Russian Foreign Ministry probably does not provide any other argumentation at all. But in my opinion it is rash, because only when The USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed extreme concernMost of the global community started roughly not forced (those. on a subconscious / psychological level) mess oneself. On the concern of the Russian Foreign Ministry, there is clearly no such reaction. And the country's policy says that it is unlikely to be ....
              2. 0
                5 June 2019 08: 02
                Threat to shoot down cr and their carriers
            4. +3
              30 May 2019 15: 33
              In PMCs, no one died in the hundreds, there were casualties, but in much smaller numbers, it is very pathetic, but these are the costs of the profession, war, of course, no one, no country starts a war in such a situation.
              1. 0
                2 June 2019 01: 01
                Quote: 16329
                In PMCs, no one died in the hundreds, there were casualties, but in much smaller numbers, it is very pathetic, but these are the costs of the profession, war, of course, no one, no country starts a war in such a situation.

                So after all, PMCs go voluntarily, and not by draft. A person entering there must initially be aware that he might die and this is only his decision.
              2. 0
                2 June 2019 01: 22
                Quote: 16329
                In PMCs, no one died in the hundreds, there were casualties, but in much smaller numbers, it is very pathetic, but these are the costs of the profession, war, of course, no one, no country starts a war in such a situation.
                let's say you're right, not hundreds but dozens (as the statistics say), but I have a question for you whether life and health are worth (used in the dark to satisfy other people's commercial interests) of these people, citizens of the Russian Federation, PMC employees ?!
                Quote: 16329
                no country starts a war in a similar situation.
                It would seem yes?!, But you see that the leadership of the Russian Federation has tried, and "formally by the hands of non-citizens of the country"[B] [/ b]
              3. 0
                5 June 2019 08: 03
                Well, because of the bombing of Syria, we did not start the war. Why was there a fleet?)
            5. 0
              30 May 2019 23: 57
              Quote: ares1988
              The USA and Israel, like the cat Vaska: listens and eats, i.e. continue to bomb Syria as they wish / need

              Those. do you think nothing has changed?)
              1. 0
                5 June 2019 08: 05
                No. But what, and then changed?
        2. 0
          1 June 2019 21: 27
          You are a little misunderstood, our presence in Syria. Hence the not entirely correct conclusions.
          1. 0
            5 June 2019 08: 07
            If it’s not difficult: how do you understand the purpose of our presence there?
    2. +8
      30 May 2019 07: 23
      2012-2013 Event Analysis

      In these years, it was necessary, leaving everything to be engaged in Ukraine. With the same diligence.
    3. +1
      30 May 2019 07: 33
      Well, while it was not so.
      1. +16
        30 May 2019 07: 37
        Alexander hi In the article you indicated:
        Since August 2018, when rumors were circulating in Washington about a new impending strike on Syria, Russia began to deploy a naval force in the Mediterranean Sea that had not been there for a very long time. The following were sent to the Mediterranean Sea: RKR “Marshal Ustinov”, BPC “Severomorsk”, frigates “Admiral Grigorovich”, “Admiral Essen”, “Admiral Makarov”, TFR “Ustrashimy” from the Baltic, TFR “Pytlivny”, three RTOs with missiles “ Caliber ”, capable of reaching almost any target in the Mediterranean from the Syrian coast, two diesel submarines.

        I have a question, how could the TFR "Fearless" go to the BS in the Mediterranean in 2018, if it did not go to sea for 6 years at all, since the turbines were covered with a female reproductive organ? "Fearless" has been being repaired at the Yantar shipyard since 2014. The TFR pulled the Aden watch, races to the Atlantic and America. Numerous visits to foreign ports and exercises. But now this is also questionable, since the GTU has to be serviced from what is, without the help of the manufacturer. Actually because of this, he hung up in the repair. Just like Chabanenko.
        1. +4
          30 May 2019 07: 58
          Error in the text. I will correct. Thank you for your attention.
        2. +10
          30 May 2019 08: 31
          I will take the audacity to answer for the author. Then, of course, it was not Undaunted who went to Middle-earth, but Yaroslav the Wise of the same type of TFR.
          1. +3
            30 May 2019 11: 24
            Yes. For a while before he went farther to the south, he was there in the Mediterranean, I nakosichil with the text, I do not understand why.
            I will correct later.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. +7
        30 May 2019 08: 33
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Well, while it was not so.

        Moreover, this "wrong" happened twice only in a massive form. On April 17th and April 18th. And at the same time, it really turned out that "neither the presence of a navy off the coast of Syria, nor the base in Khmeimim help" (8) The only ones who could help at least a little were modest Russian military advisers. Actually, they acted as a "human shield", because it was their presence that forced the United States to warn of strikes in advance. That allowed the Syrians to minimize losses.

        And the American ally Israel is "not so" happy with it regularly. Moreover, unlike the Americans, Israel deeply does not care that during "this is not so" the Russian military may suffer. Therefore, their "not so" is much more effective. But again, the Syrian air defense systems help to minimize losses somewhat. Their calculations were trained again by "humble Russian military advisers"

        It was they, these modest and inconspicuous ones, who dragged the brunt of the war upon themselves. They died. And the fact that Syria stayed at the edge of the abyss is precisely their merit.
        Which you are trying to attribute to the fleet.
        Which is all that could do - significantly increase the cost of the operation. With equal, or even lower efficiency.
        1. +8
          30 May 2019 08: 48
          Moreover, this "wrong" happened twice only in a massive form. On April 17th and April 18th. And at the same time, it really turned out that "neither the presence of a navy off the coast of Syria, nor the base in Khmeimim help" (8) The only ones who could help at least a little were modest Russian military advisers. Actually, they acted as a "human shield", because it was their presence that forced the United States to warn of strikes in advance. That allowed the Syrians to minimize losses.


          For the third time, why not? And in 2013? You English sources from that year to throw about a quick massacre of Syria?

          And the fact that Syria was kept at the edge of the gulf is precisely their merit.
          Which you are trying to attribute to the fleet.


          But you are a communist ... and the machine gun was re-drawn (without cartridges) ...)))

          Which is all that could do - significantly increase the cost of the operation. With equal, or even lower efficiency.


          I am absolutely not surprised that you are writing here. After the air raid of the Chinese on Irkutsk through Mongolia - you will not surprise me anymore.
          1. -3
            30 May 2019 09: 08
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            For the third time, why not? And in 2013? You English sources from that year to throw about a quick massacre of Syria?

            In its purest form, the victory of diplomats. Do not try to transfer it to the fleet.

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            But you are a communist ... and the machine gun was re-drawn (without cartridges) ...)))

            We have already discussed the adequacy of the transportation of dry closets to the BDK, I no longer want to touch on this topic.

            But here it’s worth hacking on your nose: the main contribution of Russian advisers was their own brains. And they were not brought to the BDK.

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            I’m not at all surprised that it’s exactly you who write this. After the Chinese air raid on Irkutsk via Mongolia, you won’t surprise me anymore.

            And you about the case of total ignorance of your geography? It was the case. Then you have fun yourself ... But we will not remember your mistakes, will we? We will give you the opportunity to make new 8)))
            1. +4
              30 May 2019 11: 38
              And you about the case of total ignorance of your geography? It was the case. Then you have fun yourself ... But we will not remember your mistakes, will we? We will give you the opportunity to make new 8)))


              I just know that Mongolia is south of Irkutsk. That you did not know))))
              1. 0
                30 May 2019 12: 36
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                I just know that Mongolia is south of Irkutsk. That you did not know))))

                laughing Dear, lying is very bad. And does not paint a person.
                Especially when he clearly has nothing to say on the topic.
          2. 0
            30 May 2019 09: 17
            But we will not remember your mistakes, right? We will give you the opportunity to make new 8)))

            So, the task of quick wits. RTR tracked target for active radio. An additional reconnaissance was carried out using an UAV, the target was confirmed

            The first option. Immediately striking a target with an aircraft on duty in the air dumb cheap cast iron okay, expensive guided ammunition

            The second option. Wait until there are a dozen of such targets, and strike at the places where the militants were once located, with "calibers" from the Caspian Sea.

            Compare the cost and effectiveness of the two options.
            And then you will be able to answer the question why the fleet was able to "significantly increase the costs of the operation. With equal or even lower efficiency."
            1. +6
              30 May 2019 11: 25
              Of course cast iron.
              Even more, Lopatov - if available, it is better to sink ships with cast iron from coastal planes, to the RK cracker.

              But the fleet is not about it, it is about something else at all.
              1. -6
                30 May 2019 12: 38
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                But the fleet is not about it, it is about something else at all.

                That is, even such a simple question created problems for you, and you answered it with verbiage.
                Expected.
                1. +3
                  30 May 2019 12: 47
                  I answered you your question. It is better to throw iron bombs. You have a habit of reading what you comment.
                  1. -2
                    30 May 2019 12: 58
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    I answered your question.

                    It was as simple as two or two, only two options: at once by aviation with guided munitions and much later by a group launch of "Calibers" from the Caspian Sea.

                    Is it really that hard?
                    1. +4
                      30 May 2019 14: 45
                      I answered you that immediately by aviation. Is it really that hard?
            2. 0
              30 May 2019 23: 43
              Quote: Spade
              The first option. Immediately striking a target with an airplane on duty in the air with a dull cheap cast iron okay, expensive guided ammunition

              Second course of action. Wait until there are a dozen of such targets, and strike at the places where the militants were once located, with "calibers" from the Caspian Sea.

              Why isn't the third option taken into account? Namely: a strike with "calibers" against previously explored and designated targets?
        2. +4
          30 May 2019 08: 50
          And Israel has already taken up several planes, lost a pilot who was burned alive in the Suf, and, generally speaking, is fighting there mainly with the Iranians.
          Which in the long run we ourselves do not absolutely need there.
          1. +5
            30 May 2019 09: 30
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            lost a pilot who was burned alive in "Sufa"

            I will not remind about the pilots who died due to the fault of Israel. The exchange is clearly not in our favor.

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            fights there mainly with the Iranians.

            And with the Syrians.
            Don’t you remind, why did we even go there?

            Quite recently, the Syrians have struck with Tornadoes on militants near the demarcation line in the Golan.
            Israel says "in fact, they were shooting at us, they were just so poorly trained that hit our terrorist friends missed a lot. "And they destroy one MLRS installation

            Could our advisors be there? Definitely. Has it stopped the Israeli military? Yes, they "do not care, eat" ..
            1. +1
              30 May 2019 11: 27
              We cannot afford a full-scale war with Israel under current circumstances, and you should understand this.

              And the matter is not even in the forces that Israel has in the theater, not in nuclear missiles with missiles, which are reaching Omsk and Peter, but in a completely different one.
              That is the reason.
              1. +13
                30 May 2019 12: 46
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                We cannot afford a full-scale war with Israel under current circumstances, and you should understand this.

                Well, of course. We will substitute cheek for cheek, cheek for cheek, cheek for cheek ....
                They kill our allies, while absolutely not giving a damn about the lives of our servicemen, and we, with an honor guard, solemnly hand over the remains of one of their aggressors.

                After this, even the most stupid Kosovo policeman knows very well that it’s nice, fun, SAFE and the authorities will praise beating a Russian citizen with diplomatic immunity and performing his duties.
                1. +1
                  30 May 2019 12: 49
                  Lopatov, at the level at which decisions are made, it is customary to count on the head. Where there are fewer losses in general, then there is a correct option.
                  1. +11
                    30 May 2019 13: 15
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Lopatov, at the level at which decisions are made, it is customary to count on the head. Where there are fewer losses in general, then there is a correct option.

                    As practice shows, an ostrich loss policy does not minimize.

                    Take a closer look at the photo. This is the essence of the cheek-substitution policy. By and large, it was this policy that led at one time to the war with Georgia.

                    Lands "left" from there, more and more toothless ones came to the post of the head of the mission after him, ended with the fact that the Georgians completely lost the coast ... And at one time, Prizemlin, with a platoon of fighters in Gori, went for a drive to correct his brains.
                    1. +2
                      30 May 2019 16: 07
                      Israel is completely different.
                      Understand one simple thing. Any state that foolishly hacked to death with Israel can face a very interesting effect - in it, EVERYTHING, all types of activity will simply be stupidly stuck. Science will stop yielding at least some results, elementary projects will start to slip, responsible leaders will start making moronic decisions, and the scale of what is happening will be such that no special services will "take him out." Our current level will seem like a model of progress. Vaughn Iran learned to launch satellites and then its rocket program STOPPED.
                      Lost, Lopatov. They do not develop further, and this has been true for many years.

                      But the operatives of the Mossad and Shin Beth are at home there.

                      Do not understand the hint?

                      This does not mean that Israel should be tolerated, but the approach to resolving issues with this country should be different. Absolutely. Or you can very vstryat.

                      It is necessary to act with the mind, and not as you want.
                      1. +1
                        30 May 2019 19: 20
                        And therefore they allow themselves a lot of the beyond:
                        IL-20M1 was shot down by an Israeli F-9 AIM-16 rocket
                        https://aftershock.news/?q=node/689648
                        The State Duma does not believe the version of the Ministry of Defense: Konstantin Sivkov said that the Russian plane was shot down by an Israeli fighter, and not by mistake
                        The goal was - the assassination of B. Assad
                      2. +8
                        30 May 2019 19: 22
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Israel is completely different.

                        Are they, like 007, with the right to kill?
                        Once again, through their fault, our pilots die, they constantly kill our allies.
                        And in response, in a solemn atmosphere with an honor guard, we transfer to them the remains of an Israeli soldier who invaded a neighboring country. What the hell is that called? And it’s too much like masochism.



                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Any state that is stupidly hacked into Israel may encounter a very interesting effect - it simply stupidly gets a stake in ALL, all types of activities.

                        And why did not science stand in the USSR? Maybe they just perfectly understood that they would get up not only science? They just long ago lost their shores from permissiveness. And nothing more.
                      3. +1
                        30 May 2019 21: 15
                        Quote: Spade
                        What the hell is that called?

                        This is called politics. A. Timokhin is right, out of all the terrible and bad options, they choose the one where there are fewer victims to achieve the goal. And she, as she was, and remains - to avoid war, and not revenge or "punishment" of enemies. The victims are inevitable, but there are fewer of them in Syria, Venezuela, and not in Chechnya, Dagestan, Tajikistan. Are you proposing to arrange a batch with a party that can act in our interests?
                      4. +3
                        31 May 2019 13: 06
                        The Soviet Union acted harshly. True, not always. This was called politics. Soviet officials did not have accounts, real estate abroad. Children did not study in the West, wives with mothers lived in Moscow.
                        I think our current problems and policies are largely due to this.
                      5. +2
                        2 June 2019 01: 39
                        Quote: RailMan
                        This is called politics. A. Timokhin is right, of all the terrible and bad options, choose the one with fewer victims

                        And here I’ll probably side with Lopatov ?! It is until Israel understands that from clashes with Russia it will have three times (at least, if not five times) more victims, it will not stop from its impunity in relation to the citizens of the Russian Federation. And part of this correspondence 1/5, will have to be dispersed in our (and theirs) media, as their media now, show the impunity of their military, winners of the citizens of the Russian Federation, making them heroes ..
                      6. 0
                        31 May 2019 21: 09
                        In the USSR, at the end everything just fell. And therefore, including.
                        And Israel broke the Soviet air defense system many times more efficiently than the Americans. Although it would seem.
                        And so, too.

                        And they do not shy away from murder. So sabelku cover.
                      7. +2
                        2 June 2019 01: 49
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        And they do not shy away from murder. So sabelku cover.
                        You believe that there are no people who have undergone appropriate training and are able to "exponentially remove" within 3-8 months from 5 to 12-15 people from the Mossad, as from the all-seeing Eye of the Israeli government, and "blind / sober up", in this way ....?!
                  2. +5
                    31 May 2019 04: 52
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Lopatov, at the level at which decisions are made, it is customary to count on the head. Where there are fewer losses in general, then there is a correct option.

                    You are an adult. and sometimes blurt out such that ...
                    At the level at which decisions are made, it is customary to consider personal losses. And they do not care about internal losses (of the entire country). That is why the country cannot (in a quarter of a century) make up for the losses in the population, which survives "despite" and "despite", just like the Russian Navy under the "paternal tutelage" of effective managers ...
          2. +1
            30 May 2019 11: 13
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            lost a pilot who burned out in "Sufa"

            What is it?

            If we are talking about the F-16 shot down in February last year, it did not burn out, but received abdominal wounds by the striking elements of the rocket. Discharged from the hospital after a week.
            1. +4
              30 May 2019 11: 29
              I'm talking about another plane. Which the crew "pulled" despite the fire on board, so as not to fall in Lebanon and not to create an information channel. Israel is good at hiding its losses, and it got to the press "in pieces", which do not give an overall picture, if you do not have "contacts" in Israel)))).

              In short, they have not lost one aircraft, in fact.
              1. +1
                30 May 2019 11: 32
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                In short, they have already lost more than one plane, in fact

                Can I have a little more detail?
                1. +2
                  30 May 2019 11: 54
                  Quote: Town Hall
                  Can I have a little more detail?

                  There were unofficial reports that in some raids there were close gaps with damage to the planes, etc. Was there any write-off of the boards - no information. Write-off of the board, unlike 200, can be carried out quietly, if the sides are one or two.
                  1. +1
                    30 May 2019 12: 14
                    Netanyahu only "hidden" from the voters of the dead pilots are not enough for complete happiness
                    1. 0
                      30 May 2019 12: 24
                      The Russians have slandered the Premiere through Liberman. That's because ... I thought where the dog rummaged. laughing
                      PS Revenge for 300. ...
                      1. +2
                        30 May 2019 12: 43
                        It was up to C-300
                    2. +4
                      30 May 2019 12: 39
                      Yes, they are not hidden. Just the reasons for the accident with the victims hid it. The plane caught fire during landing, the pilot got burned and died. We grieve.
                      And that's all.
                      And he got a rocket over Lebanon a few minutes before that.
                      That's all.
                      1. +1
                        30 May 2019 13: 11
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        The plane caught fire during landing, the pilot received burns and died. Mourn
                        And that's all.
                        And he got a rocket over Lebanon a few minutes before that.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        A fire on board, a person died from burns in a hospital

                        You see, your negligence turns into a direct lie.

                        We are talking about the death of Major Ohad Cohen-Nov during a landing in 2016. His departure did not have anything to do with Syria.
                  2. +1
                    30 May 2019 12: 41
                    And you can not write off, they have on the hangar on every plane. Locked the gate on the castle, and everything. Then somehow decide ...
                2. +1
                  30 May 2019 12: 29
                  The Syrians hit the Israelis several times, but the planes simply suffered damage, with which they reached the airfields or their airspace. Israel hid these losses, although in one case a crew member died of burns.

                  According to my data there were two such episodes. Plus, the famous downed aircraft.
                  Nothing special.
              2. 0
                30 May 2019 11: 51
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Israel is good at hiding its losses, and it got to the press "in pieces", which do not give a general picture, if you do not have "contacts" in Israel)))).

                Are you out of your mind? Is it the Jews who appeared unaccounted for 200? Yes, and in aviation?
                1. +2
                  30 May 2019 12: 32
                  Corpses taken into account. Just the reasons are incorrect. Fire on board, a man died from burns in the hospital hospital. Go, understand what and how it was there.
                  No unaccounted, now not so much loss.
                  1. 0
                    30 May 2019 12: 58
                    Does this dead pilot have a name, an approximate date when did all this happen?
                  2. +1
                    30 May 2019 22: 53
                    "Go, figure out what was there and how" ////
                    -----
                    Timokhin, you are in polemical fervor, you begin to "bend" more and more
                    and more. negative
                    Our relatives condemned the army to millions in any attempt
                    hide the reasons for the death or injury of military personnel.
                    Epaulettes flew from senior officers, like shot birds.
              3. +2
                30 May 2019 12: 35
                Israel hides losses well


                Let me tell you a story.
                Somehow I was lucky enough to visit Israel (once again) on business, taking this opportunity I took with me my spouse, who had long dreamed of seeing our friends, today Israelis. From Tel Aviv by bus, early in the morning, I drove to Haifa, they met me there, I spent some time in an institution 10 minutes away from the bus station, they took me back and ... I mixed up the bus, dozed off and woke up in Jerusalem. You won't upset me too much, I took advantage of my mistake and walked a little around this beautiful city, got on the bus and returned to my wife, who was surprised that I was so "earned". Again. I drove half the country and walked for about an hour.
                If you like walking, take a walk in Moscow from "Zhukovsky" to the station. metro Dynamo to Paveletskaya. Along the way, you will come across tons of wonderful places. Exactly the same number of people live and work in the area of ​​this diameter, which you will walk in a couple of hours, as in the entire state of Israel.
                By the way, our friends from the aforementioned beautiful country call it "Izrailevka", as an analogy with a large village.
                Do you seriously believe that there you can hide the loss?
                1. +2
                  30 May 2019 12: 42
                  So the fact of loss nobody hides them to accidents write off. The type of fire on board was due to technical reasons, and not due to combat damage (as in fact)
                  1. -1
                    30 May 2019 12: 48
                    So no one hides the fact of losses themselves for accidents attributed to them. Type of fire on board was for technical reasons

                    And can you provide links to Israeli media with similar information so that they correlate with some kind of military operations +/- 5 days? Something like reports in the Russian media about an attack on Syria and after 3-5 days about a fire or accident at an air base?
                    1. 0
                      30 May 2019 12: 50
                      It is necessary to blow up the news for several years. Honestly, I do not want.
                      1. +2
                        30 May 2019 12: 55
                        It is necessary to blow up the news for several years. Honestly, I do not want.

                        Roman law requires the claimant to prove his words. Now your statement that Israel is hiding its losses is unfounded and unconfirmed.
                      2. +2
                        30 May 2019 12: 58
                        You can brand me for it in writing and verbally.
                      3. +2
                        30 May 2019 13: 04
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        You can brand me for it in writing and verbally.

                        What for? You just did it yourself.
                    2. +3
                      30 May 2019 13: 15
                      Quote: Vladimir_R
                      And you can provide links to the Israeli media with similar information,

                      F-16 accident in Ramon on October 5, 2016
                      1. -5
                        30 May 2019 13: 27
                        F-16 accident in Ramon on October 5, 2016

                        Why are you helping a respected author? stop He himself had to work hard. Including the nomination of conspiracy theological versions.
                    3. 0
                      30 May 2019 18: 01
                      In my opinion, with such a dense traffic of raids on Syria by Jews, any news about the fire will be in the region of 5 days.)
                  2. 0
                    1 June 2019 14: 25
                    The event you described happened during the landing of "Sufa" in 2016 at the Ramon airbase, located in the Negev desert, three hundred kilometers from the border with Syria. I understand your desire to connect this with Syria, but alas.
          3. +2
            30 May 2019 17: 39
            "he took up several planes, lost a pilot who was burned alive in" Sufa "////
            ----
            You came up with the battle of the fleet, now switched to the notion of the death of the pilot? If the pilot died, then Syria would be ironed from the air for three days. But, fortunately, both pilots ejected.
            One soon began to fly again, the second was commissioned a year later.
            But quite healthy, the burns healed.
            The plane was first lost in 30 years.
        3. +3
          30 May 2019 11: 39
          Quote: Spade
          Which you are trying to attribute to the fleet.

          Shovels and whose guns are more powerful than land or sea?
        4. +1
          30 May 2019 13: 51
          Quote: Spade
          Which is all that could do - significantly increase the cost of the operation. With equal, or even lower efficiency.

          Was the Caliber low efficiency? Even if it was low, it is better to test cruise missiles in combat conditions than at a training ground.
          1. +3
            30 May 2019 13: 58
            Quote: Sergey1987
            Was the Caliber low efficiency?

            Compared to aviation? Sure. Much lower. Especially in the form in which they were used, with salvo launches. It's about time. Aviation in Syria had the time to implement intelligence by orders of magnitude less than the "Calibers" in the Caspian
            1. +1
              30 May 2019 17: 02
              Quote: Spade
              Compared to aviation? Of course. Much lower.

              Aviation used mainly FABs, their accuracy is not so high. And for the destruction of weapons and fuel cliffs, control centers are very effective weapons. Most importantly, they were tested in real combat conditions. Not so many launches for all time.
              Quote: Spade
              Especially in the form in which they were used, with volley launches.

              And that it was necessary to take the ship out to sea each time and to launch one at a time. Reconnaissance targets identified, volleys made.
              Quote: Spade
              It's about time. Aviation in Syria had the time to implement intelligence by orders of magnitude less than the "Calibers" in the Caspian

              How much caliber from the Caspian Sea or the Mediterranean Sea to fly and how much time does it take to lift aircraft?
              1. +1
                30 May 2019 19: 12
                Quote: Sergey1987
                And that it was necessary to take the ship out to sea each time and to launch one at a time. Reconnaissance targets identified, volleys made.

                Exactly. Keep the ship at sea off the coast of Syria and hammer immediately upon confirmation of the target from reconnaissance. One would be enough for the eyes, in sluggish local conflicts "an avalanche of goals" usually does not happen
                And they showed "greatness" by arranging show group starts. By the way, aviation was also noticed in this.

                Quote: Sergey1987
                how much time does it take to lift aircraft?

                In fact, attacks on the idea should be inflicted from a position of duty in the air. But even after takeoff, the strike will be dealt faster.
                1. +1
                  31 May 2019 11: 23
                  Quote: Spade
                  Keep the ship at sea off the coast of Syria and hammer immediately upon reconfirmation of the target from reconnaissance

                  So they did. Project 11356 frigates and diesel-electric submarines. Only Buyan from the Caspian Sea for launches specially went out every time.
                  Quote: Spade
                  And they showed "greatness" by arranging show group starts.

                  Not 100 missiles were launched.
        5. 0
          31 May 2019 10: 57
          The article is about the role of the fleet. It does not follow from this that the role of our advisers is diminished.
    4. +2
      30 May 2019 08: 13
      Quote: ares1988
      nor even the presence of Russian ichthamnes as a goal

      The presence of advisers was recognized, moreover, the Americans took into account their presence, which made it possible for the Syrians to minimize losses.
    5. +1
      30 May 2019 10: 52
      Quote: ares1988
      nor even the presence of Russian ichthamnes as a goal

      Loads of bile! Until there is a big war, "ichtamnets" have been fighting on both sides from time immemorial - these are the rules for fighting bulldogs under the carpet. And the desire to zhahnut is a matter of motivation for the authorities. As much as you would like, there is still something to zhahnut and the Russian Federation.
    6. +6
      30 May 2019 10: 57
      Quote: ares1988
      And the conclusions are really following

      Until the Americans see, you can defeat them every day.
    7. -4
      30 May 2019 19: 27
      In this case, nothing against the "Daggers" will help p.
    8. 0
      31 May 2019 13: 28
      I asked for a minus, I have them laughing
      Fact one, Syria did not fall. Despite your desire. The West has really been cast off, in spite of all its power.
  2. +1
    30 May 2019 06: 07
    Local mission complete. Mosquito fleet is well said. Queue for "responsible" persons - unwilling or incapable
    even see ALL the problems?
  3. +13
    30 May 2019 06: 13
    Solid and logical review article, plus to the author.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  4. +5
    30 May 2019 06: 25
    pictured drowning by Americans of decommissioned frigate Mullinix
    1. +1
      30 May 2019 07: 34
      oops
      I will correct. Thank. The photo from the article about the event without looking pulled.
    2. 0
      30 May 2019 08: 22
      Take it higher is a one-piece Sherman class destroyer
      well, now, of course, the frigate would say smile smile
    3. +2
      30 May 2019 11: 25
      Quote: Tlauicol
      pictured drowning by Americans of decommissioned frigate Mullinix

      And in all articles about torpedoes, missiles of the Russian Federation it is inserted into Petit’s place bully
  5. +11
    30 May 2019 07: 02
    If I were the author, I would change the title to the one that reflects the content of the article. As an option: "The use of warships of the Russian Navy for cargo transportation. An example from recent operations."
    True, after this, a positive example does not come out, since the use of warships for transportation is not a positive example, and instead of knocking on the timpani, we would have to talk about the state of such a "component" of the Navy as auxiliary ships and vessels and explain what happened to the mobilization one. component "of the current Navy, but the author's previous publications show that he is an informed person and that he knows the issue.
    1. +1
      30 May 2019 07: 36
      What happened was that the structure that was supposed to deal with the issue was screwed up if you called things by their proper names.
      I had to BDK, due to unavailability of the ATT to solve the problem.

      And if there was no BDK?

      In addition, everything is not reduced to shipments.
      1. 0
        30 May 2019 12: 24
        It happened that the structure that was supposed to deal with the issue - screwed up
        And you, as an experienced propagandist, have tried to turn defeat into victory, and you presented efforts to save the screwed-up structure as a kind of confrontation between the fleets.
        Sorry, Alexander, but you don’t look like a turbopatriot, it’s not yours.
        1. +2
          30 May 2019 12: 51
          There, the failed structure was saved (and saved), but something much more.
          1. +3
            30 May 2019 12: 54
            I understand that we are talking about things, figuratively, intangible, but the essence of this does not change after all. Moreover, the tone of your comments shows that you agree with me.
            Moreover, the opposing side, by virtue of its plans, did not object to salvation, otherwise it would have been much more difficult, they might not have saved it.
            1. +2
              30 May 2019 13: 00
              The opposing party found that it does not have the tools to counter rescue plans that would not require the loading of refrigerators in Ramstein or other similar places of frozen human flesh. And she had to do nothing.
              Figuratively speaking.
  6. 0
    30 May 2019 07: 38
    And the conclusion is quite simple and obvious from the mid-70s of the last century, having RCC and CD (with carriers of course) in sufficient numbers, and the Yankees become modest and polite. So aircraft carriers are a scarecrow (effective only against small states) even the mattresses themselves are clear, but ktozh will refuse such crazy profits. There are so many private contractors feeding on one logistics around the bases. And weapons make profit only when it is at war and consumed.
    1. +6
      30 May 2019 08: 02
      Well, about aircraft carriers, you are wrong, to put it mildly. Yes, and anti-ship missiles are not a panacea, in the same operation "Praying Mantis" the Yankees interfered with 100% of anti-ship missiles fired at them, did not even shoot, the Houthi anti-ship missiles also did not reach the American destroyer, they went to hinder.

      Not everything is so simple with them.

      And an aircraft carrier is just an airfield. Its main strength is airplanes, so evaluate the threat from them, other people's mantras do not need to be repeated. Domestic military science, if anything, the role of aircraft carriers fully recognizes, do not confuse the howling of "patriotic" bloggers and authors with the real world.
      Therefore, Kuznetsov is being pulled out of his last strength.
      1. +1
        31 May 2019 05: 16
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Therefore, Kuznetsov is being pulled out of his last strength.

        Are you trying to prove that a floating airfield is an impregnable fortress for an anti-ship missile system? Shall we compare the cost of the "Dagger" and the aircraft carrier? Let's equate millions to billions?
        Kuznetsov is being pulled out of the last effort only because there are no projects of promising aircraft-carrying cruisers, no production facilities (shipyards) where it is possible to perform this miracle within one presidential term, or specialists who can translate into reality "huge plans."
        I will surprise you if I repeat that the future well-being of those who make decisions in Russia is tied to NATO countries? Or will you argue that everything that was possible was given to create a modern Navy (ships of the ocean zone)?
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Russian military science, if anything, the role of aircraft carriers is fully recognized, do not confuse the howling of "patriotic" bloggers and authors with the real world.

        Domestic science? I immediately remembered the words about the Fatherland and Your Excellency ... You do not remember in vain about modern science. She still will not tell you about that. For instance:
        ... what did Father Varlaam talk about with Grishka the impostor "on the Lithuanian border

      2. 0
        2 June 2019 03: 34
        It’s not even funny. I’m talking about Hussit’s anti-ship missiles. I didn’t even know that they had them. I heard about S-75 rockets converted to ground-to-ground class, but then you surprised me. Please be kind enough. What Hussites used , the number of salvos, the country of the manufacturer. I have a doubt about the 100% effectiveness of the electronic warfare of American AUG in particular, like any electronic warfare in general.
    2. 0
      30 May 2019 09: 35
      Quote: shinobi
      The fact that aircraft carriers are an expensive scarecrow

      This is high-quality nonsense. Avik is just a mobile airfield. And airfields in general are expensive. Runway A class - 25 rubles worth. Per square centimeter. Estimate the cost of infrastructure for deploying 1000 aircraft, an analogue of what aviks of mattresses can take, multiply by the number of TVDs and realize how cheap and practical it is to have 1 avik instead of 5-10 hospitals.
      1. +1
        30 May 2019 09: 40
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        1000 airplanes, an analogue of what aviks of mattresses can carry

        Uh ???
        Extra toe?
        1. 0
          30 May 2019 09: 43
          Quote: Spade
          Extra toe?

          10 aviks x 100 LA = 1000. Not?
          1. +1
            30 May 2019 10: 13
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            10 aviks x 100 LA = 1000. Not?

            On a single theater on an ongoing basis? Not. As far as I know, no more than two. So you still have to build airfields.

            As an example, another aggravation with Iran. The aircraft carrier was not enough, they are transferring additional aircraft to local bases.
            1. +2
              30 May 2019 10: 36
              Quote: Spade
              On a single theater on an ongoing basis?

              Why permanent? Is it necessary? Threw. An example is Linebaker 2 Aviks without problems. But the hospitals yes, they must be kept on a constant basis. Or accept that on any theater, mattresses can have an absolute advantage in aviation.
              1. +1
                30 May 2019 10: 44
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                Why permanent?

                What do you mean why? For example, in the country Baboonostan began to offend American students, it is necessary to invade.
                Ten aircraft carriers until it ends.

                Quote: Lannan Shi
                But the hospitals yes, they must be kept on a constant basis.

                Or strain allies with this, which the Americans are doing.

                Quote: Lannan Shi
                Or accept that on any theater, mattresses can have an absolute advantage in aviation.

                And what are we, as the Americans are going to fight on overseas theaters? Drop it, we can't afford it.
                1. +4
                  30 May 2019 10: 55
                  Quote: Spade
                  What do you mean why? For example, in the country of Babuinostan

                  Baboons and 1 lot.
                  Quote: Spade
                  And what are we, as the Americans are going to fight on overseas theaters? Drop it, we can't afford it.

                  We are already there. And expensive ... A simple introduction of a progressive scale, at least of the Chinese type, gives 2-3 aviks a year. And of course yes. If you shake taxes exclusively from the poor, then Kalash will become an inaccessible luxury.
                2. +1
                  30 May 2019 11: 31
                  And what are we, as the Americans are going to fight on overseas theaters? Drop it, we can't afford it.


                  WE ALREADY FIGHT AT ZAMORSKY TDD. Come to your senses !!!! belay
                  1. -1
                    30 May 2019 12: 49
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    WE ALREADY FIGHT AT ZAMORSKY TDD. Come to your senses !!!!

                    ???????
                    We are not at war, this time. And it is very difficult to call Syria an "overseas theater of operations". These are two.
                    1. +2
                      30 May 2019 12: 54
                      The grouping in Syria is supplied by sea, the country has no borders with the Russian Federation. And we are completely fighting there. Are you a little?
                      1. +2
                        30 May 2019 13: 06
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        And we are quite fighting there.

                        There we do not fight, but we help the Syrians to fight. With all that it implies.

                        In addition, do not try to talk about the topic. We coped with the creation of an air group in Syria without any aircraft carriers. Reinforced concrete fact.
                        Well, the later arrival there "Kuznetsov" is even difficult to somehow determine. Either "disgrace", or "why?"
                      2. +1
                        30 May 2019 13: 12
                        There we do not fight, but we help the Syrians to fight. With all that it implies.


                        This is nothing more than verbiage. What is the difference then?
                      3. +1
                        30 May 2019 13: 19
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        This is nothing more than verbiage. What is the difference then?

                        The difference is that we do not need to create an "aviation advantage" over the United States there. And if it was necessary, then it could be done without the fleet.
                        However, we do not have so many planes ... For some reason, the United States is not limited to aircraft carriers alone.
                      4. +1
                        30 May 2019 14: 49
                        The difference is that we do not need to create an "aviation advantage" over the United States there.

                        Even in Chechnya, we did not have to "create an advantage in aviation over the United States." They didn't fight there either, did they?
                      5. +1
                        30 May 2019 14: 55
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Even in Chechnya, we did not have to "create an advantage in aviation over the United States." They didn't fight there either, did they?

                        Why verbiage, return to the essence of the argument.
                        More specifics.
                        Name the "transatlantic theater of operations" in which Russia will most likely be forced to create an "aviation advantage" over the Americans. Moreover, it will be impossible to do this without aircraft carriers.
                      6. 0
                        31 May 2019 21: 14
                        We are not at war with the Americans in Syria. We fight with their proxy armies. And they do not have aviation. Your question is completely meaningless.
                      7. -1
                        31 May 2019 05: 27
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        There we do not fight, but we help the Syrians to fight. With all that it implies.

                        This is nothing more than verbiage. What is the difference then?

                        They wrote so much, but you don’t feel the difference ... Yes, in the scale and use of forces and means. And besides, it was said:
              2. +3
                30 May 2019 11: 22
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                An example is Linebaker 2. 5 Avik without any problems.

                Only the main work in Vietnam did all the same land pilots. Plus - they then had more than 12 aircraft. At the peak, they were able to fit the 5. In reality, today such a concentration is possible with them by completely leaving all other theaters, which they obviously will not do. And some Aviks are always in the base for maintenance / repair. So if they push back, they will collect a maximum of a couple.
                1. 0
                  30 May 2019 12: 33
                  Up to six aircraft carriers were launched at sea simultaneously after 2000.
                  1. 0
                    30 May 2019 12: 52
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Up to six aircraft carriers were launched at sea simultaneously after 2000.

                    In different regions of the world.
  7. +6
    30 May 2019 09: 42
    This, of course, does not mean that this should be done in the future, but it shows the vital role of high-speed military transports controlled not by some structures, but by the navy itself, which, having weapons for self-defense and guaranteed by the navy a flag of immunity in international waters could be thrown to the task immediately, by order. In fact, the existence of the "equivalent" of such ships in the Navy saved the whole country, and we just saw how.
    Oh, the question is how to put this into practice. In Syria, a fleet of bulk carriers flying a military flag was bombed and urgently needed. And before that, decades have not been needed. And after Syria, how soon will it be in demand? There, in the USSR, such masterpieces of Finnish civil shipbuilding were rotten in the Navy, because there was no work for them. There is something to be invented. The civilian freight system in case of urgent need or something ... It will be unprofitable to keep commercial transports in the fleet, and the ships themselves will decay idle.
    1. +1
      30 May 2019 10: 22
      Quote: Alex_59
      In Syria, a fleet of bulk carriers flying a military flag was bombed and urgently needed. And before that, decades have not been needed.

      He was always needed. For example, how can you quickly build up the grouping in the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin, and then supply it?

      Another thing is that the fleet, instead of the vital, was engaged in great things. Like helping a friendly French shipbuilder under the scrutiny of Medvedev and Sarkozy. Or participation in the "International Army Games".

      Well, then in Syria, they heroically overcame, transporting dry closets to the BDK. And they were also proud of it. Like "that's how mogom, platinum forceps, tonsils, through the back, sorry, through another hole .... "
      1. 0
        30 May 2019 10: 27
        Quote: Spade
        He was always needed. For example, how can you quickly build up the grouping in the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin, and then supply it?

        Another thing is that the fleet, instead of the urgent, was engaged in great things. Like helping a friendly French shipbuilder under the scrutiny of Medvedev and Sarkozy.

        Devices of the French Krabel as be and created for building up groups ... Suddenly
        1. -2
          30 May 2019 10: 40
          Quote: Town Hall
          Devices of the French Krabel as be and created for building up groups ... Suddenly

          Tell us how they are more effective in "building up groupings" of transport vessels of equal displacement. I'm not going to talk about the cost, otherwise I will have to compare one French trough with several transport ships.

          Quote: Town Hall
          Devices of the French Krabel as be and created

          For everything at the same time. They are transports for troops, they are helicopter carriers, they are dock ships for landing boats, they are hospitals along with control ships
          As a result, they perform all these functions much worse than specialized vessels and ships.

          Selyavi .... a Swiss army knife cuts worse than a hacksaw, cuts nails worse than manicure scissors and twists screws worse than a screwdriver. Fee for universalism.
          1. +3
            30 May 2019 11: 25
            Well, build (buy) instead of it 1 transport for troops + 1 helicopter carrier + 1 ship-dock + 1 hospital ship + 1 command ship. Provide this entire squadron with everything you need from crews and equipping permanent bases to convoy escort and compare how much this "highly specialized" the luxury will cost you
            1. +3
              30 May 2019 12: 54
              Quote: Town Hall
              Well, build (buy) instead 1 transport for troops + 1 helicopter carrier + 1 ship-dock + 1 hospital ship + 1 control ship.

              But you don't buy a Swiss knife instead of all the tools, you prefer to use normal ones. Why do you think that the military "will do it anyway"?

              For example, I prefer the "luxury" to saw with a manual circular. Despite the fact that it is better not to try to cut your nails with it.
      2. +5
        30 May 2019 10: 47
        Quote: Spade
        For example, how can you quickly build up the grouping in the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin, and then supply it?
        As far as I know, back in Soviet times, a dry cargo fleet was not used at all for this. All these tasks were closed by the KFOR of the 770, 771, 773 projects. Larger ships with a capacity of thousands of tons were not in demand. And apparently, in the event of an aggravation, again, landing ships should have been building something there - there simply is no berth front on the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin to unload anything from the bulk carriers on a proper scale. The border guards - those garrisons too supplied the very modest ships of the 1595 project.
        But when the fleet bought a really cool dry cargo ship of the P-756 project (g / n 7500 tons - 150 tanks per flight!) And it just got to the Pacific Fleet, then it was never used for its intended purpose. From 1988 to 1994, he stood at the wall for a year, after which he was sold abroad ...
        In my understanding, another example could be a good example - in Soviet times, a number of civilian dry cargo ship projects were built taking into account the requirements of the military, with appropriate reinforcements for decks in the expectation of the possibility of receiving equipment. Since there was only one owner - the state, no one asked civil shipping companies, and they put up with the reduced commercial efficiency of such vessels without any problems. In fact, the entire civilian fleet of the USSR is an analogue of the American sea lift comm and a small branch of the auxiliary fleet of the Navy. But today it will not work - everything is private.
      3. +3
        30 May 2019 11: 51
        Quote: Spade
        transporting dry closets to the BDK.

        Do you often get hung up on dry closets?
        1. +2
          30 May 2019 12: 55
          Quote: Serg65
          Do you often get hung up on dry closets?

          Naturally. When a BDK resource is killed for such a thing ... This, to put it mildly, is difficult to understand.
          1. +1
            30 May 2019 13: 20
            Quote: Spade
            When they kill a BDK resource for such

            What is it for? Ammunition, equipment, fuel, products on artillery tractors brought or what?
            Quote: Spade
            This, to put it mildly, is difficult to understand.

            And let's work together, maybe we can overcome this, to put it mildly, misunderstanding?
            To begin with, who do you think should have been involved in transportation .... well, at least the same dry closets?
            1. +2
              30 May 2019 13: 27
              Quote: Serg65
              What is it for?

              Indeed, what is it. It was necessary to carry dry closets in submarines to try ...

              Quote: Serg65
              To begin with, who do you think should have been involved in transportation .... well, at least the same dry closets?

              Transport ships. Cheap, with a larger resource, with a lower life cycle cost.

              Why do you think that after the war they didn’t plow on tanks, after all, they wrote a lot of them ... Instead, tanks were remelted, metal was used for tractor production.
              Well, of course, you can plow on the tank. Just not proud of it.
              1. +4
                30 May 2019 13: 39
                Quote: Spade
                Transport ships. Cheap, with a larger resource, with a lower life cycle cost.

                We tried, you see, Turks, Franks, British and even Portuguese suspected sunflower seeds in this smuggling and the ships were tricolor wrapped in their homeland!
                Quote: Spade
                Why do you think that after the war they didn’t plow tanks, after all, they wrote a lot of them

                Oh, Lapatov, even as they plowed and not only plowed, these same tanks in the Siberian taiga also earned money by timber carriers. Not only that, on the Yenisei rapids, where now the Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station, torpedo boats worked as rafting tugs!
                Quote: Spade
                on the tank, of course, you can. Just not proud of it.

                The plowmen were not proud, they had to feed the country!
                You got involved in a battle, without reconnaissance, without reconnaissance, and weighed on a breach ... maybe you should stop, look around?
                1. -1
                  30 May 2019 13: 49
                  Quote: Serg65
                  We tried, you see, Turks, Franks, British and even Portuguese suspected sunflower seeds in this smuggling and the ships were tricolor wrapped in their homeland!

                  Rather, "they tried and were able to transport a bunch of troops to Cuba."

                  The rest is just verbiage in favor of hammering shoe nails exclusively with a micrometer. And what, "there is nothing else, but to score, damn it, it is necessary" ...
                  1. +2
                    30 May 2019 14: 08
                    Quote: Spade
                    Rather, "they tried and were able to transport a bunch of troops to Cuba."

                    laughing Well, you already have it from heartburn!
                    Well, remember when the Americans came to their senses and began to look for seeds too, what was next?
                    1. 0
                      30 May 2019 14: 19
                      Quote: Serg65
                      Well, remember when the Americans came to their senses and began to look for seeds too

                      Let me remember .... The troops were withdrawn from there during the collapse of the USSR. Until then, the troops there were regularly supplied. Are you talking about these "seeds"?
                      1. +3
                        30 May 2019 14: 40
                        Quote: Spade
                        Let me remember

                        I'll help you. On October 24, Soviet bulk carriers stood in front of the quarantine line of the naval blockade, on October 27, US naval aviation fired at the Soviet B-59 diesel-electric submarines .... and you can imagine, despite the direct act of aggression, the war did not start!
                      2. +1
                        30 May 2019 14: 50
                        Quote: Serg65
                        I will help you. October 24, Soviet bulk carriers stood in front of the quarantine line of the naval blockade

                        No, you did not help me. Because the troops were brought there. This is the time.
                        The troops stayed there until the collapse of the USSR. They were supplied, their equipment was changed, and conscripts were also taken there by sea transport. The "demobels" were sent in the same way. These are two.
                        These are real facts which neither the author could refute earlier, nor you now.

                        Quote: Serg65
                        October 27, US naval aviation fired at the Soviet B-59 diesel-electric submarines .... and you can imagine, despite the direct act of aggression, the war did not start!

                        What are you .... laughing
                        This means that the BDK could also have been fired upon "and the war would not have started" .... This, it turns out, is my argument.

                        A good example is that the statements that warships will be able to "break through the blockade" and go where transport ships will not pass is complete bullshit. Therefore, it is preferable to have more convenient and cheaper transports. For they will be able to move troops from the same. or more efficiency.
                      3. +1
                        30 May 2019 15: 08
                        Quote: Spade
                        These are real facts which neither the author could refute earlier, nor you now.

                        I see you have a reality with a story in an embrace live? Well, who besides the fleet could supply the Russian group in Syria? Wait, wait ... artillery? And by the way, how did the Russian artillery show itself in Syria? The most real fact, comrade, is that the red directors, with the assistance of members of the Politburo, Central Committee, regional committees, district committees, successfully stole the transport fleet of the USSR-RF and there was simply nothing to transport it as if it were just on the BDK! I understand your concern "no strength and do not rock the boat", but this is the principle of ostriches and it does not suit us!
                        Quote: Spade
                        Therefore, it is preferable to have more convenient and cheaper transports.

                        For these purposes, Ro-Ro-type transport is needed, but they are terribly unprofitable in peacetime, when the Union was 4, they were shoved by the Black Sea Shipping Company and the whole USSR MMF could not find a permanent job for them!
                      4. +2
                        30 May 2019 15: 22
                        Quote: Serg65
                        I see you have a reality with a story in an embrace live?

                        And what, your story prefers not to mess with reality? Is she alternative?

                        Quote: Serg65
                        Well, who but the fleet could supply the Russian group in Syria?

                        Conventional transport vessels. Why they were not - a separate question. And this is not a plus for the fleet.

                        Quote: Serg65
                        And by the way, how did the artillery of the Russian Federation manifest itself in Syria?

                        No way. Only military advisers lost several at the same time.
                        Moreover, the war showed the deepest ass in which artillery is located.

                        Quote: Serg65
                        I understand your concern "no strength and do not rock the boat", but this is the principle of ostriches and it does not suit us!

                        Disingenuous. My question is completely different. Why the fleet did not have transport ships. Why are they building a large landing craft and not transport ships? Why is this question not being raised at all, and only dreams of aircraft carriers, UDC and the Death Star are heard?
                        The fleet resembles a man telling how heroically he wiped his ass with foil, because he did not have toilet paper, and this was his own fault.

                        Quote: Serg65
                        For these purposes, Ro-Ro-type vehicles are needed, but they are terribly unprofitable in peacetime.

                        You might think that BDK’s profitability is orders of magnitude greater.
                      5. +2
                        30 May 2019 16: 00
                        Quote: Spade
                        Why the fleet did not have transport ships.

                        Because the fleet was created for combat missions, and not for commercial transport. So is the army. Both the army and the navy do not have the resources to transport anything beyond the needs of the combat units themselves and to ensure daily activities. To have just like that, for the sake of insurance, in case "what if suddenly comes in handy" two dozen ro-rokers is an unaffordable luxury and no other fleet in the world contains such a number of ships, except perhaps the American one. But even in the American fleet, the sea lift command has a huge number of transport workers in service, but their difference is that they are used directly and daily to solve the daily tasks of supplying their troops around the world. Like the ground forces use some kind of water carrier based on shishiga. And no one demands that the army men have rows of commercial trucks and gazelles for conservation in the store. Therefore, if the mobilization technique was always used, you know very well that. All UAZ, Niva and trucks were registered. Likewise, the entire civilian Soviet fleet was the Navy's reserve. The problem is that this mobilization system was killed, and a new one was not built.
                      6. +2
                        31 May 2019 09: 11
                        Quote: Spade
                        your story prefers not to mess with reality?

                        My reality is real, and the history is historical and they don’t have much in common!
                        Quote: Spade
                        Why the fleet did not have transport ships

                        You will not believe it, but the Russian-Soviet Navy has never been a part of purely transport ships! There were no transports in the Russian Navy until the fall of 2015, since October 2015 the entire severity of sea cargo transportation Sevastopol, Novorossiysk-Tartus fell on three sea transport acquired for the WWF Black Sea Fleet. The BDK mainly laid down the transportation of personnel, military and auxiliary equipment.
                        Quote: Spade
                        Why is this question not raised at all

                        Below, Alexey put you on the shelves, but I’ll add from myself.
                        Do we now have a marine transport fleet? Hardly ever! Why? In the USSR there were 16 shipping companies, the Russian Federation now has 6 shipping companies, of which Murmansk is almost a corpse. On the Black Sea, the Russian Federation has only one shipping company left, Novorossiysk, but it specializes only in oil transportation. In this regard, in the Black Sea basin there is practically no mobile reserve! Moreover, the mobilization of the law is possible only in wartime. Of the remaining shipping companies, the Baltic and Northwest are closest to the theater of operations. Almost all shipping companies are private companies, in peacetime the Navy has the right only to charter and under the Union it was the same.
                        Well, with the mobile reserve figured out. Well, with the transport as part of the Navy, Alexey told everything.
                        Quote: Spade
                        You might think that BDK’s profitability is orders of magnitude greater.

                        The BDK is a specialized combat ship, it’s almost not standing near the mooring wall (military services with landing on board, exercises). Transport will stupidly stand at the pier waiting for the need for a once a year!
                      7. +1
                        31 May 2019 21: 22
                        Conventional transport vessels. Why they were not - a separate question. And this is not a plus for the fleet.


                        They were. Chariot, Alaid, I even gave you a couple of names in the article - those who were shmonals and were turned home. Did you miss it? Or is it such a selective vision - I read here, I do not read here?

                        Cunning. My question is completely different. Why the fleet did not have transport vessels.


                        Because the task of providing military transportation of all types in the Russian Federation is carried out by the DTO MO - Department of Transport Support of the Ministry of Defense. And the tasks of the Navy and even partly the type of ships are determined by the GSH, namely the marine section

                        ATT "could not". I had to jump up sharply and start looking for who can.
                        It turned out that no one except the Navy.
                        So it was in real life, if you do not know.
              2. 0
                30 May 2019 13: 47
                Quote: Spade
                Why do you think that after the war they didn’t plow on tanks, after all, they wrote a lot of them ...

                Why tractors did not send a breakthrough instead of tanks? They are:
                Quote: Spade
                Cheap, with a larger resource, with a lower life cycle cost.


                PySy: Demagogy (dr. Greek δημαγωγία “leadership of the people”; “ingratiation of the people”) - a set of oratory and polemical techniques and means that allow you to mislead the audience and incline it to your side, using false theoretical reasoning based on logical errors (sophisms).
                1. +1
                  30 May 2019 13: 52
                  Quote: Town Hall
                  Why tractors did not send a breakthrough instead of tanks?

                  Street question!
                  Because they are not intended for this.

                  But even worse is to try to do what you stand for - tank tractors. Equally filthy in both roles. "but it's so cheaper, you can plow and attack."
                  1. +1
                    30 May 2019 13: 58
                    Quote: Spade
                    but it is so cheaper, you can plow and attack. "

                    This UDC is cheaper than the bulk carriers which you are going to send for "strengthening and building up forces in the theater of operations" like tractors instead of tanks? ... Demagoguery does not lead to good, Lopatov)
                    1. +3
                      30 May 2019 14: 16
                      Quote: Town Hall
                      This UDC is cheaper than bulk carriers

                      If UDC is cheaper than a transport vessel created under a civilian project, then this is not UDC, but some incomprehensible trough-self-propelled.
                      Do you think at least a little before writing this

                      One "mistral" is 600 million euros. With this money, you can build almost five of the world's largest container ships MSC Oscar
                      1. 0
                        30 May 2019 14: 57
                        Quote: Spade
                        One "mistral" is 600 million euros. With this money, you can build almost five of the world's largest container ships MSC Oscar

                        And send these 5 container ships to the war. The deck of one can be loaded with top-secret containers with the ubiquitous Gauges and something else there to suddenly hit the adversary, the other can be loaded with containers with rubble to jam the submarines of the adversary. Paratroopers can also be loaded into containers with all amenities and unloaded cranes on the berths. And so on. It is honestly one of them, for the bosses, to turn into a floating 5 star hotel. The main thing is not to set limits for fantasy. And the whole world is made up of fools. From America to all kinds of Indonesians and Peruvians, they build and buy UDC .Don't mature enough to such cheap and angry Eureka)
                      2. +2
                        30 May 2019 15: 10
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        And send these 5 container ships to the war.

                        Well yes. To carry, carry, carry.
                        At one time, the Americans, when preparing "Desert Storm" for the transfer of troops, attracted 269 of their transport ships and rented 50.
                        Not BDK and UDC ...
                        The Americans considered the most successful transports of the type "Agol"
                      3. 0
                        30 May 2019 15: 19
                        Airborne Headquarters Ships
                        Blue Ridge Type - 2
                        LCC-19 Blue Ridge, 1970
                        LCC-20 Mount Whitney, 1971
                        Universal amphibious ships
                        type "Wasp" (Wasp) - 8
                        LHD-1 “Wasp” (Wasp), 1989
                        LHD-2 Essex (1992)
                        LHD-3 “Kearsarge”, 1993
                        LHD-4 Boxer (1995)
                        LHD-5 Bataan, 1997
                        LHD-6 Bonhomme Richard, 1998
                        LHD-7 "Iwo Jima" (Iwo Jima), 2001
                        LHD-8 Makin Island, 2009
                        type "America" ​​(America) - 1
                        LHA-6 America, 2014
                        Landing helicopter docks
                        type "Austin" (Austin) - 1
                        LPD-15 “Ponce” (Ponce), 1971
                        type "San Antonio" (San Antonio) - 11
                        LPD-17 San Antonio, 2006
                        LPD-18 New Orleans, 2007
                        LPD-19 “Mesa Verde” (2007)
                        LPD-20 Green Bay, 2009
                        LPD-21 "New York" (New York), 2009
                        LPD-22 San Diego, 2012
                        LPD-23 Anchorage, 2013
                        LPD-24 Arlington, 2013
                        LPD-25 Somerset, 2014
                        LPD-26 John P. Murtha, 2016
                        LPD-27 “Portland” (Portland), 2017
                        Landing docks
                        Whidbey Island type - 8
                        LSD-41 Whidbey Island, 1985
                        LSD-42 Germantown, 1986
                        LSD-43 Fort McHenry, 1987
                        LSD-44 Gunston Hall, 1989
                        LSD-45 "Comstock" (Comstock), 1990
                        LSD-46 Tortuga (1990)
                        LSD-47 "Rushmore" (Rushmore), 1991
                        LSD-48 Ashland (1992)
                        Harpers Ferry Type - 4
                        LSD-49 Harpers Ferry, 1995
                        LSD-50 Carter Hall, 1995
                        LSD-51 Oak Hill, 1996
                        LSD-52 Pearl Harbor, 1998
                      4. 0
                        30 May 2019 15: 28
                        This is all, of course, very interesting.
                        But the Americans preferred to transport troops and materiel for their support not on landing ships, which have completely different tasks. And on transport ships. I repeat once again, during the preparation of "Desert Storm" there were 319 (three hundred nineteen)
                      5. +2
                        30 May 2019 16: 06
                        Quote: Spade
                        But the Americans preferred to transport troops and materiel to support them not on landing ships, which have completely different tasks. And on transport ships.
                        For them, a large transport ship of the Algol class is about the same as for us a raid supply barge. We have a hundred barges. They have a hundred Algols. What are the similarities? Both in peacetime are not idle. Their Algols drive around the world supplying American bases. They are not idle. Like our barges. But if we give a dozen such Algols to our fleet, then during the interval between the transfer of troops to Cuba and the invasion of Syria, they will be unemployed for 50 years. What will happen to the gun that hasn’t fired for 50 years? It will rot ... Therefore, it is impossible to have at least some analogue of the American Sea Lift Command in the Navy. For this we need a mobilization system. Took when necessary - worked - returned. We will only need our own such forces on an ongoing basis if we, as Americans, have our bases around the world and troops in Japan, Afghanistan, Europe, etc. at the same time. But while such a feast of Russian dominance is not visible through binoculars.
                        In the Persian Gulf, they simply concentrated all their forces, which, before the start of the operation, were cruising around the world. Once the Tempest was over, these transports returned to their regular peacetime operation. Transport troops to all corners of the world where there are Americans.
                      6. 0
                        30 May 2019 19: 16
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        But if we give a dozen such Algols to our fleet, then during the interval between the transfer of troops to Cuba and the invasion of Syria, they will be without work for 50 years.

                        And what does the BDK do between nothing and the transportation of dry closets to Syria?
                      7. 0
                        31 May 2019 15: 00
                        Quote: Spade
                        And what does the BDK do between nothing and the transportation of dry closets to Syria?

                        And to Syria, and now, in addition to transporting something to Syria, they are engaged in combat training of the Marine Corps, go to planned combat services in various regions of the world as part of ship groups. For example, my good friend, a classmate at the beginning of the 2000s served in the MP and he went to the BDK as part of a group of Black Sea Fleet ships for military service in the Mediterranean for several months. In the same place in the Mediterranean conducted teachings of a very different kind. During the call of our ship group with visits to various ports, the BDK ensured the protection of ships by the forces of the marines located on them. In Soviet times, DCs in the North and the Pacific were also used to supply remote garrisons, but for these purposes, as I already wrote, they did not use BDKs, and smaller KFORs, because the load capacity was excessive to supply the existing facilities. But, perhaps after the massive write-off of the KFOR of the 771 and 773 projects, the BNK of the 775 project was also used for these purposes, at least to Sakhalin or the Kuril Islands, where there are quite a lot of troops - they can make flights. To some remote lighthouse on Matua, to throw on duty a couple of barrels of fuel and a hundred kilograms of food, the BDK is unlikely to be driven.
                      8. +1
                        30 May 2019 16: 08
                        And they are part of the Navy, eh?
                      9. 0
                        30 May 2019 19: 15
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        And they are part of the Navy, eh?

                        Who cares? some of the vessels were not only not part of the Navy, they were not American. And oddly enough, it did not bother them.
    2. 0
      30 May 2019 11: 33
      I wrote about this — several multi-purpose transports that would work on supplying garrisons and at the same time could be used as amphibious assault ships. Type mini-Anadyr, on diesel engines, under one battalion.
    3. 0
      30 May 2019 11: 50
      hi Greetings, Alex!
      Quote: Alex_59
      in the USSR managed to suppress such masterpieces of Finnish civil shipbuilding in the Navy

      Can I cover this topic in more detail?
      1. +2
        30 May 2019 11: 53
        Quote: Serg65
        Can I cover this topic in more detail?

        Project P-756. :-)
        True, he was part of the landing forces, and not the support fleet.
        1. +1
          30 May 2019 12: 04
          Pardonte, I somehow forgot about Anadyr, but it was the only dock-ship in the Navy. True, in the fleet at the Black Sea Fleet there was one more turbo-ship from the Len.kom series. Project 567 "Kolkhida" for 22230 tons. Stood for 10 years at Ugolnaya and was sold for metal in Turechina.
  8. 0
    30 May 2019 09: 58
    Alexander, good afternoon!

    Thanks for the article, there are always not enough positive examples of the use of the Navy :)

    Americans explicitly tighten their tail only when there are simultaneously BODs in the region, which their submariners are still afraid of, and a missile cruiser.


    Taking into account the fact that over the next 10 years ships built in the USSR are likely to finish off their resource, and we will not see new cruisers and BODs for a very long time, is it correct to say that soon the Navy will become unavailable even that level opportunities that he had in 2012-2018? Or building frigates like "Pots" can smooth the situation?
    1. +2
      30 May 2019 11: 34
      Firstly, yes, it will partly help, and secondly, I have so many hopes for the 22350M series.
      1. 0
        30 May 2019 11: 59
        Is there any specifics about 22350M, or is everything still at the level of 3d pictures?
        1. +2
          30 May 2019 12: 35
          Well, there is a Glavkomat))) Technical Spec.

          In general, while only on the GEM. Marching M70, Fast and Furious M90.
  9. -3
    30 May 2019 10: 08
    Alexander correctly writes that the main thing for success is not ships, but the presence of nuclear weapons in the Russian Federation, and as a result, respect for the flag of the Navy. No one offers to abandon the fleet, in the fleet it is necessary to have several frigates for operations like the Syrian. The author did not mention the failure of the Tavkr Kuznetsov, which turned out to be practically useless and emergency, his role could be fulfilled by the TFR Inquisitive = the oldest frigate. The enemies of the people want to force Russia to abandon nuclear weapons, and they are supported by supporters of large and expensive surface ships. Igor Yurgens, developer of the strategy for abandoning strategic nuclear forces, now receives bonuses in the form of a couple of percent of GDP through mandatory motor third-party liability insurance and technical inspection, apparently he is paid for the idea .....
    1. +1
      30 May 2019 10: 44
      Quote: vladimir1155
      Alexander correctly writes that the main thing for success is not ships, but the presence of nuclear weapons in the Russian Federation, and as a result, respect for the flag of the Navy.

      According to this logic, a couple of hundred tanks will be enough, and 2 motorized rifle brigades for the eyes.
      1. 0
        30 May 2019 11: 18
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        a couple of hundred tanks will be enough, and motorized riflemen of 2 brigades for the eyes.

        And that’s all - in the Dzerzhinsky division in Balashikha.
      2. +1
        31 May 2019 09: 22
        Just your territory needs to be defended, so you need a lot of aviation, tanks, motorized infantry and for example coastal missile systems ... And the ocean fleet is an attack weapon and it should not be big except for the nuclear submarines which need an order of magnitude more than they are now.
        1. 0
          31 May 2019 10: 28
          Quote: vladimir1155
          Just your territory needs to be defended, so you need a lot of aviation, tanks, motorized infantry and for example coastal missile systems ..

          Oh how. Panzer and thing are symbols of defense. I wish Guderian neighing.
          Quote: vladimir1155
          And the ocean fleet is a weapon of attack

          There are no weapons of attack and defense. It’s just a weapon. Those mines are surprisingly offensive if they fall into direct hands. Like coastal missile systems
          1. 0
            31 May 2019 14: 02
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            There are no weapons of attack and defense

            for example, a shield is a weapon of defense, and an attack sword, so you’re wrong around, Of course it’s clear that you can attack with mines if you throw them far into the ocean, but still if we are going to attack African countries, it will be aggression, so conditionally can be considered a weapon of defense that have to be used near their borders. and weapons of attack that are intended for remote theaters of operations, the Exception is a nuclear weapon of retaliation retaliation which can be applied against any aggressor whoever he is and wherever he is. Containing expeditionary forces, battleships and aircraft carriers is also completely meaningless and inappropriate, especially since there is not enough money for the elementary defense of their territory.
            1. 0
              31 May 2019 16: 20
              Quote: vladimir1155
              for example, a shield is a weapon of defense, and a sword of attack,

              The pros will easily parry with a sword, and even break the bones with a shield, and even the basics.
              Quote: vladimir1155
              so that conditionally it can be considered a weapon of defense that will have to be used near its borders. and weapons of attack that are intended for remote theaters of operations

              Here we went to the English channel. Nafigachili at the entrances to it mines. Anti-ship missiles, coastal, covered mines and in general, melted everything floating. Flying was carried off using the S-400. Well, we drag the marines through the channel with small, coastal submarines. The bottom line? Strictly defensive weapons used, but Marines are storming the tower laughing
              To divide weapons into offensive and defensive is outright stupidity. Yes
              1. -1
                31 May 2019 21: 41
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                marines storm the tower

                what a wild fantasy ...... and how many corpses will have to be left on a long journey through all of Europe, and why? if England attacks Russia, then it’s enough to bang nuclear weapons there, and why in the radiation area are the Marines? better mount your defense
                1. +1
                  31 May 2019 22: 18
                  Quote: vladimir1155
                  it’s enough to bambooize nuclear weapons there

                  Why then do weapons at all? We hit nuclear weapons for any movement.
                  1. 0
                    1 June 2019 06: 33
                    Quote: Lannan Shi
                    For any movement

                    and if someone comes up and spits in the direction of the Russian Federation, will we also use nuclear weapons? it means not any .....
    2. 0
      30 May 2019 11: 11
      Alexander correctly writes that the main thing for success is not ships

      In my opinion, Alexander writes the exact opposite.
      Americans explicitly tighten their tail only when there are simultaneously BODs in the region, which their submariners are still afraid of, and a missile cruiser. The presence of frigates alone, albeit capable of delivering Caliber cruise missile attacks along the shore, does not stop them.
      1. -2
        31 May 2019 22: 22
        Quote: Ivanchester
        Americans explicitly tighten their tail only when in the region

        The conversation is not about the REGION, but about the global situation! Here, somehow, everyone thinks with local interests, but what difference does it make where our ship / squadron was sunk in the Mediterranean, quiet, or at the pier in Vidyaevo! The answer should always be the same, drowned the ship say goodbye to your base, let's start with Guam, it's not clear :? Another pennant was drowned, goodbye San Diego, again we didn’t understand Norfolk goodbye .. Believe me, after the first incident, they will keep from our ships for kilometers .. ABOUT ANY retaliatory nuclear strikes are out of the question, for WE have demonstrated our determination to go to the end. And here the author of the RULES is absolutely Strategic Missile Forces + all the others, and they are the guarantor of the inviolability of any ship / vessel under our flag, and not any forces of the Navy .. This is exactly what is a fact, and not fictions about some kind of efficiency and a frightening possibility of impact our Navy on the fleet of "partners" .. Stop lying to ourselves .. Lopatov is absolutely right that those who have funds should be used first of all on aviation as a tool with a minimum reaction time (SNF is a separate line), the SV after the Aerospace Forces on funds that they cannot "master "(NOT to plunder, but to master it), then the logistics and provision of the above, and only after that what remains to give to the fleet .. For the latter are the least effective in defensive capability. ASHEY of the country.
        1. 0
          3 June 2019 11: 26
          Military doctrine clearly states that

          The Russian Federation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it and (or) its allies, as well as in the event of aggression against the Russian Federation using conventional weapons, when the very existence of the state is threatened


          Since the death of one ship or even a group of ships obviously does not pose a threat to the existence of Russia, nuclear weapons will not be used in this case (similarly, they were not used when the Turks shot down our bomber in the 2016 year).

          So our ships are not surrounded by any magical aura and should primarily rely on their own capabilities, both defensive and shock. And personally, I am deeply convinced that the commanders of the American AUG are much more afraid of "Peter" or "Varyag" than a hypothetical nuclear "response". And in order to keep them in good shape constantly, and not from time to time, Russia needs a sufficiently numerous powerful, modern fleet.
  10. +2
    30 May 2019 10: 21
    A wonderful article, I read it in one breath, and the events were "yesterday" - you can't lie. I think that the role of the Russian fleet can only be underestimated for some reason or through thoughtlessness. Of course, in the far sea zone, the role of IRAs for protecting the interests of Russia is not great, but this role is very difficult to overestimate in protecting the internal territories, it's like a dagger or a dagger in a close melee buoy. And I agree with the author's conclusions - the Americans will never go to a global conflict, at the wrong time.
    1. +1
      30 May 2019 11: 35
      I did "lie" - I messed up with one of the TFR. Undaunted - was under repair ...)))
      1. +2
        30 May 2019 12: 32
        Come on, this is not the point.
  11. +1
    30 May 2019 10: 58
    I liked the article. Quite optimistic, but not cap-and-go. The fact that the fleet was able to carry out such tasks with clearly insufficient forces speaks of skill, that not everything is dead yet. If only such a "half-positive" result would not reassure the admirals, the RF Ministry of Defense and the authorities in general. Forces are still clearly not enough. The result was that the coalition did not want escalation in other directions. If there were such a task - sadly, our group would be crushed. Yes, not free. But it doesn't make it easier for us, and we can say the last thing that still floats there.
    1. +4
      30 May 2019 11: 36
      That's right. But we need to "PR" such examples, because otherwise the supporters of the "mosquito" fleet will eat everything.
      1. +1
        30 May 2019 12: 07
        Exactly. Namely in the direction of the "mosquito" and seems to be skewed. It is painfully convenient to report in quantity, to build is cheaper. And to fasten the "strategy" for this case - there will be no end to those who want to. Another thing is that it is expensive - yes, but we always have "No money, but you hold on." True, a very good idea
        modernization of the old watchmen of projects 1135 and 1135M - “Okay” and “Inquisitive”. The volumes occupied by the Rastrub submarine missile launcher on these ships, the cubicles and the sonar post located under it, can be used to deploy the 3C-14 launcher, which will allow arming these ships not only with the PLUR, but with other Caliber family missiles. This would increase the number of surface ships of the DMZ - carriers of the "Caliber" in the Black Sea Fleet to five. Naturally, this would have to be done along with the repair and extension of the life of these ships. So far, however, this issue has not been raised.
        1. 0
          30 May 2019 12: 37
          It is painfully convenient to report in quantity, to build is cheaper. And to fasten the "strategy" for this case - there will be no end to those who want to.


          The General Staff has already achieved this. In fact. We count everything by the number of cells. Had the opportunity to make sure.

          True, a very good idea


          Provided that the repair of old men will be possible.
          1. 0
            30 May 2019 13: 16
            About repair - yes. We don’t know all the nuances. And how many of them. You named two so far, at the Black Sea Fleet. And how many of them were released?
            1. +1
              30 May 2019 16: 10
              They were cut. There are two at the Black Sea Fleet and the border guards in Kamchatka have a couple of "pranichnye" options - without PLUR, with a cannon on the nose and a hangar. Ukraine also has a PSKR which they identified as the frigate Hetman Sagaidachny.
              Everything, no more.
              And built a lot of them, google project 1135.
  12. 0
    30 May 2019 11: 31
    Quote: Tlauicol
    pictured drowning by Americans of decommissioned frigate Mullinix

    Only it’s not a frigate, but a Forrest Sherman destroyer
  13. 0
    30 May 2019 15: 07
    Hmm, after shelling Syria the Kyrgyz Republic with the US Navy, I’ll write about the over successes of our fleet, no, of course I’m glad that propaganda works well for us, but without a really powerful army and a normal economy based on a powerful industry, it won’t save ... This also needs to be understood
  14. +1
    30 May 2019 15: 08
    You can agree with the role of the fleet, and you can dispute it, but the fact is obvious: there is no naval grouping in the eastern part of the Mediterranean - there are American missile strikes. There is such a group - there are no strikes, and there is not even a hint of them, and with the apparent desire of the enemy to inflict them.


    Interestingly, if our Navy were present on April 14, 2018, then there would be no blow to the US Navy in Syria? Based on the quote - from the text it turns out that so. But the point here is clearly not only the fleet ..... the blow to Syria from the United States was primarily a political decision by Mr. Trump. The task was set - the US Navy completed it, and if in the future the USA decides to launch a massive attack on Syria using the Navy and other forces, then how will our fleet be able to prevent this? Will they hit NATO ships and start a global war?

    Quote: "Russian military advisers, representatives of the Center for the Reconciliation of Warring Parties and military police are in Damascus in the institutions and facilities of the Syrian Ministry of Defense," General of the Army Valery Gerasimov recalled then, commenting on the possibility of an American missile attack on the Damascus neighborhoods controlled by the government army. - In the event of a threat to the life of our servicemen, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation can take retaliatory measures - both for missiles and carriers that will use them. "

    Yesterday, Russia's Permanent Representative to the UN, Vasily Nebenzya warned the United States of the grave consequences in the event of an attack on Syria.

    Moscow will have to answer one way or another, because in the event of the inaction of the Russian group in Syria, the reputational losses for Moscow will be simply enormous. Opponents, potential partners and neutral countries will make an unambiguous conclusion that the Kremlin in such a situation is not able to protect its ally. However, the Americans too should be aware that they are pushing Russia to use weapons. And the blame for such a scenario will lie exclusively with the White House. "

    We know the result.

    Of course, the fleet played a significant role in supporting Syria, but it’s clearly not worth fearing that the United States is afraid of our presence.
    1. +1
      30 May 2019 16: 16
      So and Obama was on the verge of a political decision - even a strike force was assembled, 10 destroyers, two substrates, an aircraft carrier, UDC ...

      And?

      The decision may be reviewed if there are risks.
      1. 0
        30 May 2019 17: 07
        No, it is clear that their General Staff assesses the risks of starting a massive attack on Syrian territory. And the presence of our fleet is in some way a deterrent, but there are other cases in history (14.04.18/XNUMX/XNUMX). Here I am talking about a slightly different aspect .... are we ready not in words but in deeds to use force to defend Syria? In the United States, after all, they also take into account that we are in Syria to fight terrorism, we do not plan to fight for Syria against the United States, and we get the following picture: US Navy, Air Force, etc. + NATO allies are involved in the operation, and this entire group is sent to the shores of Syria to bring the light of "justice", "good", etc. .... what are the Americans doing next? For example, they warn ours (via the data exchange channel) that they are planning to bomb such an area, ours from this area recall their advisers, instructors, etc. and that's all, Syria is left alone against the NATO bloc, ours, of course, condemn the actions of the United States, but they will not be the first to cross the line.

        As a result, it turns out that our fleet seems to be present, but in the event of a real mess, there is not enough political will for a direct confrontation and we withdraw our forces (or simply do not interfere in what is happening), and then the Americans do what they want.

        PS But all this is certainly true, thoughts are rumored .... maybe I'm wrong in the reasoning.
  15. -3
    30 May 2019 15: 26
    What can I say, mattresses once again truhanuli, yes, it is truhanuli who saw the Russian tricolor, they are only heroes to fight with a weak and less armed probable enemy. And Truhanuli is not the first time. There, everyone in the army came to earn money, and not die. So they are afraid to relax.
  16. +1
    30 May 2019 17: 00
    The conclusion in the article is correct: the Russian Navy is vital for ships in distant sea, and even better, the ocean zone - with powerful, preferably supersonic, anti-ship missiles with a long launch range.
  17. 0
    30 May 2019 17: 06
    Finally, the first adequate article on fingers explaining what the Fleet is and what its true meaning is!
  18. 0
    30 May 2019 17: 31
    For the first time I agree with Timokhin, a well-reasoned and verified article, a balanced analysis of the situation and the development of an event at the level of a mediated local conflict of low intensity in a theater of operations remote from the Russian Federation. Mediated - they hit the Syrians, implying spread rot on the prestige of the Russian Federation. I agree with the opinion that the escalation of the military-political confrontation (not an armed clash) into an armed combat and subsequent nuclear conflict is unlikely. Nobody wants to cross the "red flags" and is not going to. That is, in any case, I still assess the role of the Russian Navy as a military-political means of pressure (soft power) in defending its own national interests. But for strategic decisions (combat use), the Russian Navy has neither the forces, nor the capabilities, nor the naval base in the World Ocean, alas. And given the current state of industry, economy and finance, for the foreseeable future, management will seek and find asymmetric solutions. Therefore, with aircraft carriers, a fleet of cruisers and other gigantomania, you will have to wait for now.
  19. Quote: timokhin-aa
    And Israel has already taken up several planes, lost a pilot who was burned alive in Sufa,

    ***
    Did I oversleep?
    I know about one Israeli plane shot down in 30 years, not dodging a couple of dozen rockets 10 - 2018.
  20. +1
    30 May 2019 19: 52
    Whoever has a land army has only one arm, who also has a fleet that has two arms! Russia has only two allies, its army and navy! you can’t say more precisely.
    It turns out what the news looks like from a professional point of view!
    Thanks to the author for the article, interesting analysis and optimistic ending. We have not had much positive lately.
    And we will build the fleet, we will work and build!
  21. 0
    30 May 2019 22: 43
    not managed by any structures, but directly by the navy

    interesting idea! But what if we continue: and the rest of the country's economy is controlled not by some liberal structure in the form of the HSE, but by the Russian Army directly ... And?
  22. 0
    31 May 2019 13: 39
    The Americans have come around only because they have the sad experience of "communicating" with our naval sailors. Namely sailors, not ships. Because the ships are operated by people - sailors. And our sailors are not American sailors who only know how to threaten with their might. What is the bulk of our TFR "Selfless" on the American cruiser "Oirktown" in February 1988? And yet, the Americans really do not want to see themselves as losers in a direct clash.
  23. +1
    31 May 2019 17: 43
    A similar case was off the coast of Libya in Soviet times.
    When we did not allow the 6th US fleet to strike at this country.
    And now, when our fleet was not there, everyone knows the result.
  24. 0
    6 June 2019 15: 04
    Navy needed. Syria is not needed.
  25. 0
    2 July 2019 07: 34
    "In addition to the bitter truth, we also need positive examples, and we have them. "
    And what, now this article of Timokhin with supposedly positive example will be repeated monthly?
  26. 0
    2 July 2019 08: 20
    The state needs a strong "long arm" .... everything is "simple", we are strengthening the economy, restoring the industry! And for workers / workers this is JOB, blessing and some kind of prosperity in families, i.e. an endless chain of what will start / can improve! For the state, all this is also stability, strengthening both the state itself and the political, economic weight in the world!
    Ah, dreams, dreams ...
  27. 0
    1 March 2020 01: 01
    A good article, a relevant and interesting topic, however, the author designates the alleged dislocation of forces as the objective reality of the year (which he often has), while he does not name a specific time or date. Since he cannot know them. While ship magazines are not declassified, the author, as a professional journalist, should not give such controversial assessments without reference to the source. Everyone knows the approximate composition of the 6th fleet, however, the presence of a certain number of ships of both sides in the Mediterranean Sea in a given month does not yet give an assessment of the operational-tactical situation. In general, the author's conclusions are correct.