The upgraded Ka-52M helicopter will be created by 2022

The new modification of the attack helicopter Ka-52 "Alligator" - Ka-52M will be created by the year 2022. This was announced by Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko during a visit to the Progress aircraft factory.

According to the deputy minister, the new modernized attack helicopter Ka-52М is created taking into account the use of the helicopter in the fighting in Syria. Development work is currently underway, a new helicopter will appear by 2022 year.

This information was confirmed by Andrei Boginsky, director general of the Russian Helicopters holding company, who explained that the military, given the Syrian experience, had been asked to increase the security of the helicopter. In addition, the upgraded "Alligator" will receive new power supply systems and target detection. Also, work will be carried out on the armament of the helicopter.

The machine "asked" to increase the range of use aviation means of destruction. The second important task is the unification of aviation weapons with helicopters of the Mi family.

- he said.

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense reported that within the framework of previously concluded contracts, before the 2022, the military would receive X-NUMX attack Ka-30 helicopters, including eight helicopters to be delivered this year.

Earlier it was reported that in the framework of the state program of armaments on 2018-2027, the Russian military department intended to purchase X-NUMX attack and reconnaissance helicopters Ka-114.

Comments

[silverwolf88]

This helicopter with a very high potential for modernization ... it is good that work in this direction is ongoing ...
The technique must meet the challenges of the times and improve with the accumulation of application experience ...

[Vadim68]

They would have to think about 50 ke. Thrown for the sake of not so very good Mi-28 because of undercover games

[abc_alex]

If you yourself have come up with this or heard from someone, just forget it. If you read where, don’t read there anymore :)
The main and only reason for abandoning the Ka-50 was the demand of the military. And it appeared not because of the mythical "undercover games", but because of the complete unsuitability of the Ka-50 for real combat operations. Even at the range, the operator pilot simply could not navigate normally in an unfamiliar target situation.
And that’s it. No miracles were there. There was a fantastic idea of ​​a single-seat attack helicopter, which did not justify itself.
But there was an almost many-year delay in the adoption of the Mi-28 and, as a result, the rearmament of our army late for 20 years, wow, this is the result of undercover games by the leadership of the Kamov Design Bureau, who longed for large series. As a result, neither they nor Miles received anything.


By the way, something I personally do not understand is this phrase:

The second important task is the unification of aviation weapons with helicopters of the Mi family

The Ka-52 is now an identical weapon system with the Mi-28. Or are they talking about unification with the Mi-28NM?

[gridasov]

Such statements are a sign of a deep underestimation of modern situations in the high-tech equipment market. Aircraft on large blades cannot be promising. And the solution to the problem of increasing the radius of flight can only be through an increase in the weight and volume of the transported fuel and not otherwise. Therefore, there are not only solutions, but no knowledge and aspirations for new scientific approaches to solving key problems. Limitations in speed and speed of maneuverability. Limitations in payload and other aspects do not have the prospects of modernization at all. This means that the problem is in the people themselves who are not able to solve problems.

[17085]

Quote: gridasov

Such statements are a sign of a deep underestimation of modern situations in the high-tech equipment market. Aircraft on large blades cannot be promising. And the solution to the problem of increasing the radius of flight can only be through an increase in the weight and volume of the transported fuel and not otherwise. Therefore, there are not only solutions, but no knowledge and aspirations for new scientific approaches to solving key problems. Limitations in speed and speed of maneuverability. Limitations in payload and other aspects do not have the prospects of modernization at all. This means that the problem is in the people themselves who are not able to solve problems.

Gridasov, like all "underestimated khokhols", you invent a problem for yourself, then you solve it yourself, and of course you draw conclusions.

[gridasov]

A short time question is who will start to use the first. If this is not Russia, then it will be difficult for it to catch up. But this is another problem. The fool always thinks that everything looks like he sees it.

[17085]

Quote: gridasov

A short time question is who will start to use the first. If this is not Russia, then it will be difficult for it to catch up. But this is another problem. The fool always thinks that everything looks like he sees it.

Greatly said. Everyone argues that one cannot fly at such a speed, but for some reason no one thinks that it is even more so to "confidently manage" at such a speed. The Americans do not have their own hypersonic kamikaze precisely because of this.
The technique used today has received a huge help for modernization, as you rightly noted: "A fool always thinks that everything looks like he sees it"

[gridasov]

Modern analysis technologies do not allow considering physical processes on the blades in the medium during their highly dynamic interaction as algorithms of such interactions. In other words, the state of the environment in all their aspects and the state of the material of the outflow are transformed. i.e., the complex of some states interacts with the complex of others. Therefore, the analysis method is the primary one, and then the analysis of the irresistible process, which we took as an example. Therefore, wing theory as such can be transformed into, precisely as a big data method. Hence, the process of creating the reference flow for such devices as a helicopter is precisely the process divided into sets of stages in which positive extrema coincide with tasks and goals. As one wise man said, it is very annoying to see how wisdom drowns in the ears of distant people. These words refer to those who determine the innovative policy of the state. Because there are inventions of different levels and meanings.

[For example]

Quote: gridasov

Modern analysis technologies do not allow ...

Verbal diarrhea.
Words for the sake of words.
You do not have prices among people who spend their time and energy on finding the reasons for their idleness.
Not everybody can beat his brains with idle talk.

[gridasov]

I said what I said, but I heard what I heard. Demagogy pours from the mediocre and stupid. I’m talking about accurate scientific data with fullness of evidence. My fault is only in tolerance for such ignoramuses. My task is not to teach, but to develop knowledge with the thirsty. Well, it means not fate

[Alexey-74]

Remarkably, the Ka-52 is one of the best attack helicopters in the world, and taking into account the combat experience in Syria, I think it will be brought to a higher level.

[bessmertniy]

I would like to quickly.

[Vadim68]

Ka-52 is more likely such an obese Ka-50 geek. Judging by what the Ka-50 was doing in Chechnya, it was he who was the best attack helicopter. They safely returned to the base with a bunch of hits and even holes, were repaired right on the spot and flew out again to extinguish the Islamic scum - the embryo of the future igil.

[Julius Caesar]

And can you dirty information about the experience of the combat use of the Ka-50 in Chechnya? The number of sorties, targets hit, the nature of fire resistance?

[Vadim68]

on the Internet, please, on thematic resources. as they say, Wilcomman Zee

[tomket]

Quote: Vadim68

nor returned safely to the base with a bunch of hits and even holes, were repaired right on the spot and took off again to put out the Islamist scum - the germ of the future igil.

AiK described in detail how Ka-50 was used in Chechnya. Something that you described treshak I did not meet there.

[Vadim68]

He showed himself well there. Treshak is rubbish. your garbage or whose?

[abc_alex]

Yes, it’s so good that it was rejected by the military :) :) :)

[Vadim68]

Once again I want to ask. Why not upgrade the Ka-50. Even with the ancient automation and avionics of the early 90s of the late 80s, it was a wonderful machine. If they are making a single su57, who prevents making a single attack helicopter as planned? With new technologies. Although we are not the USSR, the helicopter filling can now be made much more perfect.
As far as I can tell, the Ka-50 even in terms of maneuverability and survivability surpasses its 2-seater modification, because even by sight one can see how heavy and fat the Ka-52 is, and therefore it is unlikely to surpass the original modification with armor and the like.

[Leeds]

Question - why?
The best attack helicopters, and we know what letter they begin with, pilot and gunner.

[AAK]

Colleague, the modernization of the Ka-50 is advisable, in my opinion, under the following mandatory conditions:
- the presence of a radar, better than supra-muzzle, but there are structural problems with the coaxial design of the screws;
- refinement of the screw group to prevent possible overrun of the blades during vigorous maneuvering during an attack, or when evading it;
- a pilot has a “cockpit inside” helmet that functions reliably day and night to avoid distraction when piloting, searching for targets and using weapons;
- inclusion of anti-tank weapons in the complex with a range of up to 15 km (sufficient for use from a height of 10-100 m, at which there is minimal risk of exposure to enemy air defense), to consider the possibility of changing the installation location of the gun on the ventral near the center of mass;
- the use of more powerful and economical engines than on the 52nd engine to ensure vigorous maneuvering, as well as a set of measures to reduce thermal and radio visibility.

[Vadim68]

engines on our helicopters will be replaced by new ones, instead of the traditional ones produced in Ukraine. they are more powerful and more economical. This has already been written about.
With an overlap, it’s quite obvious that we have already fought on ka52 - the solution found can be used on ka50.
the inclusion of ATGM weapons with the necessary parameters is a conversation in favor of the poor, since we are talking about ATGMs, not a helicopter. rockets - to the developers of the rockets. ATGM can be hung even on the AN-2.
the mentioned helmet - why not use these developments from the on-board complex SU-57. There is nothing to duplicate development if development is already underway. Since all these are structures of a single state corporation, there should be no problems with this if the authorities are holding power.
The radar is again a resolved issue, I think. I just have doubts that this issue is being dealt with closely. There is a very big suspicion

[bayard]

With supratuscular radars, big problems of a systemic nature are vibration. The amers did not matter, and our Mi-28, too. So the Ka-52 with AFAR from the MiG-35 in the nose is the solution. Here and the range of detection / guidance, and the possibility of using air-to-air missiles for air combat. This is especially true for the naval version of the Ka-52, when there is no hope for air cover on the far shores.
They will hardly reanimate the Ka-50, we already have a zoo of combat helicopters, where else to add. Yes, and the Ka-50 radar where will you order? There is no place in the nose - there is an optical-location complex and the "muzzle" is narrow, but above the sleeve it is not even funny. The Ka-52 will cope with all these tasks with a reliable radar, and the fact that it does not have all-round visibility is not a problem - the Ka-52 can spin around its axis for review without problems, moreover, without changing the direction of movement.
Ka-52, Mi-28, Mi-35 \ 24, "Terminator" - quite a decent zoo and tools for every taste and task.
And the Ka-50 was a really great attack helicopter ... but alas.

[Vadim68]

Something physics tells me that the coaxial vibration should be more high-frequency, and it can be absorbed by some kind of mechanical stabilization and damping system. If desired, you can find a simple and effective solution. True, for this it is necessary Stalinist schoolchildren, who studied at the institute and with Soviet brains (i.e. with Brains, not a talker in a box) .... (((

[bayard]

Quote: Vadim68

Something physics tells me that the coaxial vibration should be more high-frequency, and it can be absorbed by some mechanical stabilization and damping system.

Can you imagine the height of this design? And the difficulty in creating and maintaining?
Yes, and why fence the garden? The combat aircraft radar sector review, and take out the top guard - circular ... The Ka-52 is simple, traditional and reliable ... with the prospect.
And for circular intelligence, let the AWACS aircraft soar.

[maximum 8]

So the Ka-52 with AFAR from the MiG-35 in the nose is the solution.

You don’t want to suspend a mace on Ka-52? That’s the solution.

[bayard]

I once proposed this solution, in 2015-16, and then there was information that it was on this version that work was being done, and it was for the naval version of the Ka-52 ... But then there was a bummer on the Mistrals and how -that all fell silent ... I think for a while. Later, information came through again that the work was in progress.

And why did the radar on the Ka-52 not please you? On it in the naval version were going to hang the X-35, and maybe the X-31. And how are you going to give them target designation in the clear sea-okiyane? "Crossbow"? You will not look so far ...
Armament on any aircraft is selected from the task. Detect your own radar and launch a missile strike on the enemy’s ship / ships, taking off from the deck of the BDK, UDC or even BOD ... such an option is worth placing a full-fledged AFAR from a combat fighter on a combat helicopter. And having air-to-air missile pendants, repel an air attack, an attack by the Kyrgyz Republic, disperse enemy anti-submarine \ patrol aircraft away from the warrant ...
Or do you disagree?
And there is no transcendental complexity to implement this solution - the task is quite ordinary.

[abc_alex]

Quote: AAK

- the presence of a radar, better than supra-muzzle, but there are structural problems with the coaxial design of the screws;

He has. In the nose under the fairing, it just stands. The crossbow is called. He doesn’t need an over-sleeve. The nadulochnaya is not a tricky Hollywood solution for "peeking around the corner". It's just that Apache and Mi-28 have a movable cannon mounted in the bow and the radar station cannot be crammed there. So I had to hang over the screws :) And the Ka-52 has a lot of space in the nose under the radar.

Quote: AAK

finalization of the screw group to prevent possible overrun of the blades during vigorous maneuvering during an attack, or when evading it;

Yes, it seems they’ve already finalized. Two disasters, of course, were, but since then it seems like you have not heard about the overlap ...

Quote: AAK

the pilot has a “cockpit inside” helmet that functions reliably day and night to avoid distraction when piloting, searching for targets and using weapons;

And what will that change? Well, here comes the signal in this helmet at the same time: "target capture" and "threat from behind and below" And what next? Then the pilot drops one task and concentrates on another. I am already silent about the situation of a night flight, when piloting itself requires a high concentration of attention ...

Quote: AAK

the inclusion of anti-tank weapons in the complex with a range of up to 15 km (sufficient for use from a height of 10-100 m, at which there is minimal risk of exposure to enemy air defense), to consider the possibility of changing the installation location of the gun on the ventral near the center of mass;

To implement an ATGM with such a range, you need a target recognition system with a range of 20 kilometers. That is, a radar operating at a distance of more than 20 km. And still the helicopter will lose air defense. Since it is always better visible against the background of an empty sky than a tank against the background of the earth.
To remove the helicopter from the air defense coverage area will not work in any way.

I think so :)

[abc_alex]

Quote: Vadim68

Once again I want to ask. Why not upgrade the Ka-50. Even with the ancient automation and avionics of the early 90s of the late 80s, it was a wonderful machine.

Because one person is not able to physically fly a helicopter, search for targets and fire at them. They tried, there are no such many-armed shivs in the army. :)
Not only was the concept controversial, but the implementation was crooked.

Quote: Vadim68

If they are making a single su57, who prevents making a single attack helicopter as planned?

It’s one thing to spot a plane with a radar in an empty sky, and it’s another to find a tank on the background of the earth. The tank is not a contrasting target, especially at a distance of several kilometers. Therefore, where the avionics avionics normally handled back in the 70-80s, the helicopter is struggling to cope even now.

Quote: Vadim68

Although we are not the USSR, the helicopter filling can now be made much more perfect.

This will not fundamentally change anything. In battle, the pilot will be forced to immediately track THREE dynamically changing patterns: the situation around the helicopter, the position of the helicopter itself, the position of the rocket and the target. NOBODY will be able to work normally in this mode. Here you need a full-fledged robot for one or two tasks. That is, you still have to limit the functions of the pilot to one task, and everything else to shift to electronics. And a reasonable question arises: is it not easier and more reliable to put an operator-shooter in the cockpit, and not to fence a bunch of equipment.

Quote: Vadim68

As far as I can tell, the Ka-50 even in terms of maneuverability and survivability surpasses its 2-seat modification, because even by sight you can see how heavy and fat the Ka-52 is

Yes, he was not very heavier and then 10% of the total. But the two-seater has become universal, suitable for both land and ship-based.

[SSJ]

It is expected that the modernized Ka-52H helicopter, which by 2029 will have an updated engine and new avionics, as well as be able to carry a larger volume of weapons and will surpass the modernized Ka-52M helicopter that will be created by 2022)))

[Vadim68]

I recommend you to throw more sneakers on the street. to complete the portrait.

[maximum 8]

World champion throwing sneakers on wires? Indeed, the portrait is complete.

[Vadim68]

he has rhetoric like boys and girls bulk. I remember throwing sneakers, this is such a topic, taken without changes from the technology of the Maidan-Orange garbage, developed at well-known US universities - a training manual for a fighter with the regime. so I poked it. I’m fed up with these guys

[bars1]

They decided to bring the Ka-52 to the level of Mi-28NM and that’s good!

[Zaurbek]

And they plan to put a propeller in his ass.? Asks ...

[Yeraz]

And why in the Russian army 2 attack helicopters ?? plus another Mi-35.

[maximum 8]

Quote: Yeraz

And why in the Russian army 2 attack helicopters ?? plus another Mi-35.

Do you propose ditching one of the plants together with one of the design bureaus? For competition. Like Su and MiG, there should be competition between Mi and Ka as an engine of progress. Before the beginning of 2027, 100 Mi-28NM and 118 Ka-52M with their engines should be produced and armed with Hermes-A, he is also Product 75, which a month ago successfully passed tests in Syria.

[Yeraz]

[quote = maximum 8] Do you propose to ditch one of the factories along with one of the design bureaus? [/ quote]
no, I suggest just answering the asked question
[quote = maximum 8] For competition.
here is the answer.

[Vadim68]

They are not the same in functionality. Mi35, if nothing has changed much since Mi24, it’s kind of like a landing party can land and evacuate the wounded, despite being well protected and armed, unlike a simple helicopter or just an attack.
And Kamov has a large ceiling - fly up to 5500 meters in the highlands. And fly not as a target for the stinger, but fully

[abc_alex]

Quote: Yeraz

And why in the Russian army 2 attack helicopters ?? plus another Mi-35.

Well, the Ka-52 can be based on ships ....

[Lapunevsky]

By the way, yes, I read somewhere about the dissatisfaction of the pilots of the KA-52 that "Attack" is not very convenient in terms of range of use, you have to "pull" to the target at a distance of 2-3 km, otherwise it does not capture it or stall. The declared 6 km is not in sight.

[abc_alex]

The target is captured not by the rocket, but by the sighting and navigation system on board. If the "Ka-52 pilots" don't know this, just don't believe them.

[Lapunevsky]

It was about the complex, when it works Attack.

[abc_alex]

Well, come on, initially the Ka-50 \ 52 were not armed with the "Attack" complex. Kamovtsy put on "Whirlwind" and failed. When the Ka-52 was put into service, the military demanded to put on it all the same weapons as on the Mi-28. But the Ka-52 avionics had already been formed and it was not realistic to cram into its new contour "as is". When the creators of the sighting system offered their services, the Kamov Design Bureau politely evaded them. And I installed the units on my own. So in theory, yes, maybe. And it may very well be that the "Attack" complex "screwed by someone else's hands" does not realize its potential. BUT so that the effective range dropped by almost three times? On the Mi-28N, Attack works confidently at 5-6 kilometers. There is a video from Syria confirming this fact. Maybe it's not the complex itself, but its integration into the Ka-52 avionics?

[Lapunevsky]

I can not say read about it a year ago. It was about the fact that with the help of the guidance system it is difficult to keep the rocket on target at a distance of 4-5 km. Constant breakdowns were. And the consumption of ammunition in the empty - the rocket broke from the control and went to the side. And it stopped only when entering the distance to the target in 2-3 km. Only then did the rocket go steadily at the target driven through the complex by the pilot holding it in sight.

[abc_alex]

The rocket and the Sturm-V complex itself are used both on ships and on land equipment and on the Mi-28. There are no complaints about them. The guidance complex, its scheme and algorithms have been successfully operating for more than a dozen years. Therefore, the probability that the Sturm-V complex is bad and the Attack missile is very low.