Cartridges for submachine guns. Future and some fiction

106
Submachine gun yesterday, today, tomorrow. In the future, cartridges for submachine guns can specialize even more and turn into something absolutely fantastic today. Why? Yes, just everything goes to that. Protection is being improved - the means for overcoming it are also improving. Not without reason appeared the 12,7-mm ammunition and the automatic weapon ShA-12. This tool will solve all the problems of the battle at a distance of 100 meters. But is it the only way to go in this direction?


Who knows, maybe someday such a machine gun will appear and shoot a gun with very unusual bullets ...




Let's start with a bow and arrowheads


Any bullet can be compared to ... an arrowhead! Their task is the same - to hit the target and disable it. Therefore, the tip must have good aerodynamic quality and penetrating power. Interestingly, in the era of the Ancient World, the tips were mostly small, bronze, cast and bullet-shaped, that is, they were very much like modern bullets. Although on their surface, they had faces with spikes extending backwards, which modern bullets do not have. The bows, from which arrows with such tips were issued, were small in size. It is not difficult to be convinced of this; it is enough to look at the images of the Scythians on ancient vessels. That is, comparing it weapon with modernity, we may well attribute them to pistols and machine guns.


And here are the cartridges and bullets for him. It is clear that these are weight and size layouts and they look a bit more primitive than they should be.


In the Middle Ages, petioled tips made of forged iron were used. And here is what is strange and surprising: they practically refused from the previous bullet-shaped tips. That is, their share among the finds is very small. But there were wide-palm tips the size of a palm, tips in the form of a crescent horns forward, if not in the form of a disk with sharply sharp edges, and even three-four-bladed. There were also flat tips with blades shifted along sides relative to the axis. It turned out that such arrows rotated in flight, which provided them with better stabilization when firing long distances. Tips have become more, and therefore the bows, too. That is, it was already a "rifle", designed for long-range shooting at ... unarmored targets.


The submachine gun itself (or rather, its layout) looks quite traditional, with the exception, of course, of the barrel. Butt folding. There are two openings for the ejection of the sleeves (both are covered with covers), both on the left and on the right. The shutter handle can be easily installed on either side, and it is also easy to change and discard the shutter. The shutter handle itself when shooting is still and does not bother the shooter.



The same PP, right side view. The folded butt and the tactical flashlight mounted on a special holder are clearly visible. Of course, one could have put Picatinny's slats, but ... it was not very easy to make them, despite all the external simplicity.


That is, here it is in front of us, the world trend of development of long-range missile weapons, and the direction of its development is to shoot further and take the enemy out of operation, and for this it is easiest to shoot at a large target, that is, at horses. A wide wound - the horse quickly loses blood, and with it strength falls. Only near were needed armor-piercing arrows for firing at armored riders, which is why such tips and find a little. But there are many tips in the form of a chisel or chisel, which both the armor punched well and successfully inflicted deep wounds on the enemy without armor.


The butt is removed if desired ... The shutter is, of course, the most up-to-date, oncoming, with the front part being a piston, as in the SP Spectr, which pumps air into the barrel housing in the heated part of the chamber when it is fired, and thus cools it.


Historians and physicists have already done this.


There are two interesting monographs: “Ballistics from arrows to rockets. Yu.A. Vedernikov, Yu.S. Khudyakov, A.I. Omelaev. Novosibirsk: Institute of Archeology and Ethnography, Novosibirsk. state tech. University, 1995 ”and more modern“ Ballistics of arrows according to archeology: an introduction to the problem area. A.V. Korobeynikov, N.V. Mityukov. Izhevsk: Publishing house KNOW KIT, 2007 ”, the authors of which examine ancient arrowheads with the help of mathematical formulas, determine their aerodynamic quality and penetration ability. Moreover, the authors of the first monograph, in addition, have done a tremendous work on the typology of the tips found in Siberia, and in particular, in the Minusinsk Basin. And they, on the basis of their study, created their own tip for the small arms of our day, which they called “polycliniform” and combining high penetrating power and excellent aerodynamics. It is difficult to say whether it will remain only theoretical development on the pages of a little-known scientific monograph, or will find its application later, something else is important, namely that today, in principle, you can think of a bullet of higher efficiency than the existing ones.


The store has a traditional design with openings for visual inspection, however, it is easy to make from transparent plastic.


In the image and likeness of development Maievsky


The "VO" has already been told about a possible ammunition with a discoid bullet, and today, in the light of the ever more specific requirements for cartridges for submachine guns, why not think about the benefits that would have been created? Let's start with the fact that even in 1868, the Russian general from artillery N.V. Maiyevsky, a professor of ballistics at the Mikhailovsky Artillery Academy, proposed a project for a curved cannon charging from the breech that fired disc-like shells. When firing a projectile disk, placed on the edge, pressed centrifugal force to the lower part of the barrel and received the desired rotation. The gun was made and tested. It turned out that the projectile flew it 2500 m, while the core of the same weight only 500, but that accuracy was unsatisfactory, besides, the disk had nowhere to put a powder charge. But unsatisfactory, it was at a great distance, so this must be emphasized.


Cartridges in the store.


Flying saucer bullet


Well, now let's consider "our" cartridge and a bullet to it. Naturally, purely hypothetical, because the creation of a new cartridge requires a lot of work and painstaking research. Here it is important to determine the shape of the bullet, optimal in terms of ballistics and armor penetration, and the shape of the liner, and the powder charge. That is, this is work for the whole scientific research institute. But suppose, again hypothetically, that “everything worked out for us,” and what then could we have in the end?


The butt folded to the right does not interfere at all with the use of a weapon if the bolt handle is extended to the left and vice versa.


We will have this: a bikalybernuyu bullet, which in the cross section has the shape of a diamond, with two vertical guides. The diameter of the bullet 20 mm, and the height of the guides 11 mm. That is, she immediately has two calibers! The sleeve has a height of 23 mm, with transverse dimensions of 21 on 12 mm, and the total height of the cartridge 35 mm. The sleeve shape is a flat parallelepiped with rounded edges. Bullets of two types: regular and armor-piercing. A plain one is a hollow disk made of tompak alloy filled with lead and with a guide rod passed through it along the axis of rotation, also of tompac or copper. The part that is inside the disk has a square cross section, the protruding parts are round. Disc thickness - 5 mm, protruding guides - 3 mm. Armor-piercing bullet made of steel. The weight of a pure lead bullet (which is shown here in the photo) is exactly 10, so the real bullet should be even lighter. That is, the ammunition data is somewhere at the level of the American cartridge 11,43x23 / .45 ACP, which also has a sleeve length of 23 mm, and a total length of 32, 4 mm, with a bullet that weighs approximately at the level of the bullet from the Parabellum. Accordingly, the initial speed must be high enough - higher than that of the above-mentioned ammunition, as well as its energy should be higher. It remains only the most important thing - to ensure, at a distance of 100 meters, to her, accuracy that is the same accuracy of the bullet of the ShA-12 submachine gun and ... we can assume that the idea was a success!


This is a barrel for discal bullets. Despite the seemingly complex shape, it is no more difficult to make than an ordinary round cut.


And roll and slide ...


Well, and the barrel of a weapon under such ammunition, naturally, corresponds in its profile to the pool. It is made of two halves by stamping or rolling, and then screwed together, which facilitates its manufacture. One of the sides of the guide channels is smooth, while the opposite side has a fine vertical serrated cut. When fired, the bullet presses its guides into the grooves and rolls along them, and on smooth it slides. Thus, it simultaneously receives both translational and rotational motion, like a gyroscope. The lead filling presses against the tompak sheath and presses it against the walls of the bore, and thus provides an obturation. The armor-piercing bullet does not have such an effect, but with the high quality of the manufacture of modern ammunition, gas breakthrough can be avoided. Due to the fact that the edge of the disk is very sharp, such a bullet will have a very strong damaging effect. The fact is that when braking or hitting an obstacle in such a bullet, there is a “top effect” - that is, it starts to move randomly and continues to rotate, that is, it causes a long and deep incision that can cause severe blood loss. However, at the same time, it is quickly inhibited and cannot pierce two targets at once, which is very important just for weapons used in the crowd in anti-terrorist operations. In addition, it is necessary to keep in mind the strong psychological impact of such “super lethal weapons”, information about which will, of course, be widely replicated by modern media.


The window sleeve is made on both sides of the receiver.


All strictly according to the canons of international law


The Hague Declaration of 1899 of the Year and the Hague Convention of 1907 of the Year prohibit bullets that easily unfold or flatten in a human body, whose hard shell does not cover the entire core or has cuts. This bullet has an axis of rotation that coincides with the center of gravity, it does not flatten or turn around, therefore it does not fall under the scope of these documents. At the same time, the sharp edge cuts multilayered Kevlar fabric well, and the armor-piercing bullet again has a good penetrating effect. In fact, we are facing a disk from a Bulgarian saw, so that with a high rate of fire of a weapon firing such bullets, it will be possible to use it ... “to cut trees”. True, not very thick!


A powerful tactical flashlight immediately blinds the enemy in the dark ...


There would be a cartridge, and a submachine gun is easy to make!


Another benefit from this ammunition is that it can be easily redone by almost any modern submachine gun. It is only necessary to replace the barrel, bolt and put a new receiver for the store, since the store for such cartridges is wider than usual. The cartridges in it also go in one row, so it cannot be made with more than 25 cartridges, because otherwise it will be too long.


At least it was quite convenient to hold this submachine gun in your hands! It does not interfere with its use even a thick winter jacket.


Challenge for the future NTTM


In a word, it’s easy to develop such a cartridge, to achieve satisfactory performance from it, and there it will be possible to alter some software for it. Well, the psychological impact of such weapons on any person will exceed all expectations. Seeing that the barrel of a submachine gun is aimed at him, whose line, as he knows from the media, cuts a man in half, he ... is unlikely to want to try it out for himself!

PS It is clear that all this is considered only hypothetically, as a kind of "mind game" and no more. But the tale is a lie, but there is a hint in it! And who knows what can expect us in the near and far future. The truth is always there somewhere ...

To be continued ...
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106 comments
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  1. 0
    14 June 2019 05: 44
    I’m not even trying to imagine what will be invented in this regard in five years - so quickly the science of killing a person is "progressing".
    1. +2
      14 June 2019 11: 02
      Interestingly, someone has patented a boomerang-shaped bullet.
      1. +7
        14 June 2019 16: 07
        Of course! No problem. Immediately along the optimal path.

  2. +5
    14 June 2019 05: 58
    PS It is clear that all this is considered only hypothetically, as a kind of "mind game" and no more. But the tale is a lie, but there is a hint in it! And who knows what can expect us in the near and far future. The truth is always there somewhere ...
    In the cartridge 14,5X114mm. This is the most successful cartridge for a submachine gun.
    1. 0
      14 June 2019 19: 50
      Would you agree to carry a 50 kg "toy"? This is the caliber of "Cliff"
      1. 0
        15 June 2019 00: 56
        Quote: Astra wild
        This is the "Cliff" caliber

        Let the Kazakhs wear it.
      2. 0
        25 June 2019 02: 24
        There is a 12,7 mm caliber
    2. +1
      14 June 2019 23: 19
      Quote: Amurets
      This is the most successful cartridge for a submachine gun.
      .700 AE not considering?
      Weak?
      You can add a pinch of TNT to the gunpowder.
  3. +14
    14 June 2019 07: 16
    The article does not even reach the level of "Young Technician". The author's physics and aerodynamics are very bad. Even the cannons of Mayevsky do not convince of anything.
    1. +1
      14 June 2019 23: 20
      Quote: bunta
      The author with physics and aerodynamics is very bad.
      About tips also funny wrote.
      And the gear on the pool and the trunk, apparently, from vibranium.
    2. +2
      14 June 2019 23: 33
      This weapon is clearly not up to Kalash. negative
      Handicraft Claim wink
      1. 0
        15 June 2019 00: 25
        Aleksey, before the "anti-fada of kitchen knives" in Israel, no one considered the butcher's cleaver a weapon either ...
  4. +9
    14 June 2019 08: 43
    As the dressmaker of Queen Marie Antoinette once very correctly observed, everything new is well forgotten old.
    The idea of ​​giving rotation to a disk-shaped projectile with the help of a toothed groove located along the rhomboid-shaped generatrix was expressed back in 1857 by the Italian ballistics Saint-Robert.
    Since then, this barrel with serrated cutting does not give rest to a diverse audience, far from understanding the processes occurring during the firing.
    Since Saint - Robert understood something in the processes, he proposed the teeth not so that they would act as a gear transmission, but in order to create one-sided resistance, causing rotation.
    But the people, devoured by the itch of invention, did not understand these subtleties and went to generate various gear bullets.
    Some even get patents.

    This is a completely fresh idea of ​​a certain Nicholas F. Mirabile from distant American Texas. Patent received in 2014. The idea is worked out. There are hundreds of drawings under the floor.
    The rest has already been discussed. Lack of the necessary knowledge leads to a complete misunderstanding of the process and the generation of "dreams" about disk bullets, sawing the enemy, like a Bulgarian and other fierce technotresh.
    1. +3
      14 June 2019 08: 46

      This is the cartridge for the aforementioned shooter.
    2. +1
      14 June 2019 16: 11
      In the movie "Wild, Wild West" magnetic disks were flying ...

      laughing
      1. +1
        14 June 2019 16: 45
        Cool movie! I also remember that the Predators had discrete waves.
        1. +1
          14 June 2019 16: 52
          And the Necromongers in Riddick films. True, they started with a hand.
      2. 0
        28 June 2019 12: 44
        As a child, he had a gun that fired plastic disks due to the energy of pressing the trigger. Up to 3-5 meters accuracy is satisfactory. The maximum range of something about 15-20 meters, was very dependent on the wind. The disk was plastic with cuts and rotated in flight. Even then there were thoughts of improvement. Then he read at Lukyanenko as it should - magnetic suspension, pneumatic cylinder drive and atomic sharpening. So your mediocrity is Hollywood in front of the Soviet engineering and writing school :)))
  5. sen
    +5
    14 June 2019 08: 52
    When rotating, such a bullet will be greatly diverted to the side. Magnus effect.
  6. +5
    14 June 2019 08: 56


    Many shooting systems have "sunk into oblivion" due to the fact that the bullets had a large dispersion during firing ... If you believe that the bullet-disks will have the properties of projectiles-disks, then it is worth recalling the results of tests of disk throwers and shells for them .. .:Their accuracy was completely unsatisfactory, and this was explained not by calculation errors or technological defects in the manufacture, but by the principle on which their application was based. The speed of rotation of oblate shells depended on dynamic conditions (friction force), which vary depending on the conditions of movement, and not on constructive geometrical, predetermined reasons. The flight path of the disks depended strongly on atmospheric conditions.
    But it could be even worse! Because , big difference in mass of disc bullet and projectile ... different conditions for "friction". And the machine gun-disk thrower will turn out to be a more unsuccessful design than the unsuccessful cannon-disk thrower ... By the way, a bullet made of lead ... oh, you will run into Greenpeace! In many countries, hunting with lead shot is prohibited ... only with "iron" ... that you can't see a hunting lupar either ...
    PS And by and large, the inexhaustibility of your ideas is amazing! good
    1. +1
      14 June 2019 23: 25
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      And the machine-gun will be a more unsuccessful design than the unsuccessful gun-gun ...
      We recall the Magnus effect, have fun.
      This is if the gear does not lick.
  7. 0
    14 June 2019 08: 57
    Indeed, something new in weapons is possible only with the use of new energy sources, because the energy limit limits the capabilities of weapons. And the effectiveness of weapons with the same power supply does not change much. No wonder railguns and lasers are already breathing in the back of the head in the powder, there is a need, and almost everything has already been pulled out of the powder

    But, as you know, the specific heat of combustion (TCF) of gunpowder is about 3,8 MJ / kg, which is 10 times less than the TCF of oil 41 MJ / kg.

    Imagine 10 times more.

    So why don't they do it on "fuel oil"? Why did they try, but did not succeed, for example http://pentagonus.ru/publ/materialy_posvjashheny/1970_1990_gg/primenenie_zhidkikh_metatelnykh_veshhestv_v_artillerijskikh_sistemakh/120-1-0-1421? The main problem was stability, i.e. accuracy and safety.
    The test bench of the 105-mm gun of the General Electric company; the regenerative injection method is used for loading.
    Until recently, this was not solved, but since the advent of microprocessors and controlled warheads everything has been solved, but inertia is constraining.
    1. +1
      14 June 2019 16: 18
      Tank driving and firing on diesel?

      hi
      1. Fat
        0
        14 June 2019 19: 20
        Quote: Horse, people and soul
        Tank driving and firing on diesel?

        Why not? But you can start with a crewless option. Machine gun / gun on diesel fuel. Flamethrower for close combat, fuel tank - a land mine on a self-propelled platform ....
        1. 0
          14 June 2019 19: 22
          I read that I tried in the Navy anti-aircraft gun on liquid fuel.

          It didn’t go ...
          1. Fat
            0
            14 June 2019 20: 04
            Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
            It didn’t go ...

            Gaussian (railgun) also tried until it goes. It's a question of time...
            Classics is still driving. hi
            1. +1
              15 June 2019 00: 06
              It is not a good idea to use a flammable and explosive liquid. There may be a lot of possible problems with pipelines, seals, taps, pumps, valves, vapors in tanks and other fluid delivery and storage infrastructure. Especially for "special" liquid.

              Artillery gunpowder in unitary cartridges, even when separately charged and even in cartridges, is much more convenient and safer than liquid. The cartus fell - picked up and charged. And throwing artillery fluid spilled - half a liter! A ship may burn and explode.

              It’s just we ourselves who are used to pouring a tank into the car. And replacing a cartridge with fuel at the touch of a button in 5 seconds is much more convenient. Only we do not need it.
              1. 0
                15 June 2019 00: 33
                Of course, it’s not necessary, there, in addition to the cost of fuel (more than revalued), you will need to lower the coin at 50 euro cents to unlock the cartridge for use.
    2. -2
      18 June 2019 21: 36
      In addition to the specific heat of combustion, there is such a wonderful thing as the rate of combustion of a propellant and the rate of increase in pressure in the bore. Solid powder is good because it burns in layers, but very quickly, while the pressure rises again very quickly, but at the same time quite smoothly.
      Damn, here in the comments on my memory the topic of the iron-and-steel alloy was sucked in about 30 times. Well, it’s not profitable, the iron-and-steel alloy has no real advantages, except for the possibility of creating a propellant mixture immediately before firing from substances that are inert until this moment. But there are more than enough flaws ...
  8. +2
    14 June 2019 09: 13
    To begin with, back in 1868, the Russian general from artillery N.V. Mayevsky, a professor of ballistics at the Mikhailovsky Artillery Academy, proposed a project for a curved-barrel cannon loading from a breech that fired disc-shaped shells.
    A flat (disk-shaped) projectile and a curved-barrel gun for firing such a projectile were invented by the American E. Ord in 1860.
  9. +2
    14 June 2019 09: 19
    Add bullets to the guidance system and your own engines - then take off: shoot small PPs, large - launch plates into space.
  10. +4
    14 June 2019 09: 32
    Armor-piercing bullet made of steel. The weight of a purely lead bullet (which is shown here in the photo) is exactly 10 g, which means that the real bullet should be even lighter. That is, the ammunition data is somewhere at the level of the American cartridge 11,43x23 / .45 ACP, which also has a sleeve length of 23 mm, and a total length of 32, 4 mm, with a bullet that weighs about the level of a bullet from Parabellum. Accordingly, the initial speed should be quite high - higher than that of the above munitions, as well as its energy should be higher. All that remains is the most important thing - to ensure that at a distance of 100 meters, the accuracy is similar to the accuracy of the SHA-12 machine gun and ... it will be possible to assume that the idea was a success!
    If we calculate the cross-section of the "disc-bullet" taking into account the dimensions given by the author, then it is about 25% larger than that of a 9 mm bullet. Air resistance is directly proportional to the cross-sectional area and the square of the speed. This is without considering all other factors. So the bullet may not reach the target.
  11. +4
    14 June 2019 09: 47
    Oh, Vyacheslav mastered the 3D-print from plastic laughing
    1. +1
      14 June 2019 16: 22
      He says that inmates can mold such dummies out of bread with their hands to take guard on the show and make legs.

      laughing
      1. +2
        14 June 2019 22: 19
        "The fact is that on your barrel is written" dummy ", and on mine -" Desert Eagle "(x / f" Big Score "(though the Goblin translates the title of the film a little differently, and I support him!))
  12. +2
    14 June 2019 10: 14
    Vyacheslav, technology is not a language to talk. Here knowledge is needed.
  13. +3
    14 June 2019 16: 03
    Vyacheslav, thanks hi, read it with interest. But, since I am a complete layman in the exact sciences, and in physics only once received a four for "exploits in mechanics", I will not undertake to comment on anything. Especially when such authorities as Vik Nikolaich have already noted here hi .
    But the layout itself p / p and its performance is very, very liked, he asks in his hands, tastefully done.

    PS Finally, a remark not to start the discussion: At one time they argued that a person cannot fly "like a bird", but we fly, sir ... drinks
    1. +5
      14 June 2019 16: 30
      At one time it was argued that a person cannot fly "like a bird", but we fly, sir
      They stated quite rightly. "Aki bird" man cannot fly. Perhaps from the couch.
      1. +1
        14 June 2019 16: 56
        Again, not entirely true. If you put a sofa in the cabin even the most heaping LI-2, then it is quite possible to fly anywhere from it. )))
        1. +2
          14 June 2019 17: 13
          In "Pobeda" I can also ride on the back of the couch, but at this time I don't run like, uh ... a moose. Likewise, the person on the couch in Li-2 does not actually fly, but ... rides through the air.

          laughing

          To fly, like a bird, it's still a musk-flyer, of which there can be for obvious reasons, except perhaps attempts to make a bicycle with wings.
        2. +1
          14 June 2019 17: 52
          We're talking about a pda bird flight.
  14. +1
    14 June 2019 16: 06
    What I do not understand is what for weapons to uncover in front of residential buildings?

    And if the policeman lives there and looks from the window at that moment?

    laughing
    1. +1
      14 June 2019 23: 30
      Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
      And if the policeman lives there and looks from the window at that moment?
      The face will then freeze. And the ribs with the kidneys get sick.
      1. 0
        14 June 2019 23: 55
        Well, that's at least. And if the policeman has saved up for his phone, then he can call a team of "doctors" with rubber and iron tools to the address.

        feel
        1. 0
          15 June 2019 00: 45
          Even I don’t understand you ... It seems that you live in the European Union, and the thinker is Russian categories ...
          1. 0
            15 June 2019 00: 48
            And in the European Union, bears with balalaikas do not walk along the streets either.

            As in Moscow.

            laughing

            And the police make a face on a dude with an object similar to a weapon in a residential area not only in Moscow.
            1. 0
              15 June 2019 00: 53
              Yeah, only in Moscow and others like it, the police do not shoot anticipatory defeat (although sometimes in vain)
              1. +1
                15 June 2019 00: 58
                It’s only in the USA that the police shoot at niggaz, and in France, croissants cops burst coffee, while Islamists with machine guns mowed down people.
                1. +1
                  15 June 2019 01: 08
                  Well, then France, with its ideas of "freedom, equality, brotherhood." May God grant Le Pen that she would be buried according to the Christian rite ... And so, "Notre Dame Mosque". They went to this for a long time.
  15. +5
    14 June 2019 16: 30
    Again the militant amateur caliber expressed his enlightened opinion on the topic in which neither ear nor snout.
    1. +2
      14 June 2019 16: 58
      And to be rude is absolutely not necessary. The case has something to say, like Viktor Nikolayevich, for example? If not, then not hell.
  16. +3
    14 June 2019 17: 03
    What could be better than the 160-year-old horrrosho loaded with 217 grained conical lead bullets on 30 grains of black powder of Remington New Armies .44 caliber, whose directed muzzle hypnotizes better than any Kashpirovsky and Messing!

    1. +3
      14 June 2019 17: 33
      Grandfather in a village in Western Ukraine is asked:

      - Didu, people are fucking, do you have an e-gun?

      - Breshet people ...

      - More people fuck, what do you have a machine gun e?

      - Breshet people ...

      - And people are playing, what’s your gun e?

      - But what dumb, that dumb! laughing
      1. +1
        14 June 2019 18: 35
        I couldn’t bite the gun ...

        laughing
    2. +2
      14 June 2019 21: 09
      It, of course, hypnotizes ... It is worth remembering one of the scenes from the movie "The Good, the Bad, the Ugly", however:
      "- God is on our side because he doesn't like the Yankees!
      - God is against us because he does not like idiots ...
      (From the same movie)
      1. +2
        15 June 2019 00: 01
        In one of the final scenes, this revolver played in The Pale Horseman another title, And His Name Is Death, where Clint Eastwood changed the drum (aka cylinder) coolly on it, smoothly coming up to unload it all into the main villain and put the final point to the lobster with a pocket revolver.
        1. +2
          15 June 2019 00: 06
          I recall something, but vaguely. (Shame on me, a fan of the old gunfighter!)
          1. +2
            15 June 2019 01: 01
            Scene with a cylinder change.

            1. +2
              15 June 2019 01: 20
              You know, I really didn't! Is he old already, something later than "Unforgiven"?
              1. +2
                15 June 2019 01: 23
                To be honest, I’m more interested in kinolyapi with weapons than the filmography of Clint Eastwood.

                hi
                1. +5
                  15 June 2019 01: 33
                  For God's sake! To whom! You love Glock, I’m CZ-75 .... The main thing is that you don’t have to go to the poop with foam at your mouth. This is unnaturally humanoid peristalsis. Do you agree?
                  1. +3
                    15 June 2019 02: 36
                    Cosmopolitans and worshipers of the decaying West! am But I don’t like Makarov, and do not hesitate to admit it! drinks
                    1. +1
                      15 June 2019 19: 30
                      And why? And therefore ...

                      ... that before getting married - you should have a look at all the girls, and even better - feel it.

                      fellow
                      1. +1
                        15 June 2019 20: 00
                        It is practically impossible to do this, but this must be sought. laughing
                  2. +1
                    15 June 2019 19: 28
                    With peristalsis in old age you can not argue.

                    hi
  17. +3
    14 June 2019 18: 44
    Author, write better about newspapers.
    1. +4
      14 June 2019 21: 28
      The author wrote about newspapers ... So they cheated beyond measure.
      1. +4
        15 June 2019 02: 33
        Hello to Anton and best wishes. hi

        No, well, how not to cheat! It’s necessary to put it somewhere - well, with what they drape it, or even drown in it yourself. laughing
  18. +1
    14 June 2019 19: 04
    In the distant 80s, he applied for an invention for a similar bullet in the shape of a "double spherical segment". It also proposed a variant of submunitions for fragmentation ammunition, the submunitions were to be made of zirconium. He was young, stupid.
  19. +3
    14 June 2019 20: 24
    Colleagues, let me fantasize. Why not create a sleeveless cartridge: press the capsule and bullet into the gunpowder. Immediately equip such cartridges in a special store. Such cartridges will be twice as light, which means the soldier will be able to more
    Ammunition is more to wear. The issue with the extraction of sleeves is being solved: it will simply burn.
    Honestly, this is not my whole idea: my colleagues said that such experiments were going on abroad. And then I conceived
    1. Lad
      0
      14 June 2019 21: 09
      It is necessary to patent. ) And not for a general overview of their hard-won ideas to spread to be stolen.
    2. +3
      14 June 2019 22: 15
      The Heckler & Koch G11 rifle was produced under such a cartridge of 4,7 × 33 mm caliber. Such designs have a significant drawback: spontaneous ignition of the cartridge in a hot chamber.
    3. +1
      14 June 2019 23: 32
      Quote: Astra wild
      And then I conceived
      G-11. Study.
    4. +4
      15 June 2019 00: 36
      The problem is that:

      - for the safety of storage and the firing itself, the burning sleeve should begin to burn at a much higher temperature than the current powder. Otherwise, when the chamber is heated from previous shots, the cartridge will spontaneously ignite from the incandescent chamber.

      - obturation. A brass sleeve solves the obturation problem. In addition to cooling (a brass sleeve heats up during a shot and flies out with degrees and the chamber does not have time to heat up quickly). In a revolver, the sleeve does not fly out as fast as in an automatic weapon, but only with manual reloading, because of which the revolver overheats from prolonged shooting.

      - a special combustible plasticizer for gunpowder, in order to form a durable sleeve from it, during combustion should not leave ash, soot, slag, soot and other nonsense, which clogs the weapons and interferes with the operation of automation.

      - the sleeve formed from gunpowder and plasticizer must be resistant to wet environments. Ideally, water and (for example) flammable liquids and gun oils should generally be repelled.

      - the igniter capsule, probably, should be different, not traditionally shock, but electric ignition, since the ignition temperature of such a liner should be specially made high, the short-term exposure to open flame did not lead to ignition of the liner itself, as well as loading such a liner into a hot chamber.

      - the weapon must have a system of forced automatic cooling of the chamber.

      - a sleeve pressed or cast from a throwing compound with a plasticizer must be strong enough to reliably contain a bullet inside itself and not to collapse when loading into stores and when operating automatic weapons.

      ... and the Remington New Army .44 revolver shot from the photo above 160 years ago with cartridgeless, burning paper cartridges.

      hi
      1. +1
        15 June 2019 00: 54
        Burning cartridges for .44 and .36 calibers of the Wild West.

      2. 0
        16 June 2019 09: 37
        I said that the store should be equipped at the factory and then the issue of dampness is removed
    5. +2
      15 June 2019 01: 20
      Systems with a "flying away sleeve" have more prospects than with a burning one.

      But there are problems that cannot be solved simply and cheaply, like a burning case.

      And if more problems are added than solved, then why bother with a garden? The classic cartridge worked 150 years ago and will work another 150 years.
      1. +2
        15 June 2019 01: 56
        150, this is unlikely .... Maximum - 50. And there, "either the donkey dies, or the padishah"
        1. +2
          15 June 2019 10: 24
          I won’t live so much to check ...

          request
          1. +2
            15 June 2019 10: 28
            Yes, I am too...
      2. +2
        15 June 2019 02: 29
        Hello my friend! And besides this cartridge since the XIX century there were ammunition with gunpowder and a pramo capsule in a pool. Now I don’t remember the name of the gunsmith, but in our department there was such a gun with a magazine for several bullet cartridges. Very good dressing and looks like a classic duel. On the net, I think you can find it if you wish. So America is clearly not open, even with all the desire to flatter the lady.
        By the way, in the movie "Dirty Harry" Clint, by definition, had a Smith 44 Magnum, but in nature he shot from the forties, our hero could not stand the recoil. request
        1. +1
          15 June 2019 10: 02
          Really Dirty Harry shot from the 41st Magnum, yes, although I do not quite understand why the revolver under .44 Magnum wasn’t charged the lighter .44 Special? And in the cinema they do not shoot live ammunition.

          laughing
        2. +1
          15 June 2019 10: 33
          Systems where the bullet contains a propelling charge and the igniter have a number of limitations on ballistics, the amount of potential propelling charge and restrictions on the possible type of bullets for special use.

          hi

          Another thing is the flying away cartridge case. But in order not to affect the accuracy, the bullet and the escaping sleeve must disengage immediately upon firing, and this is a rather "finely tuned" and sensitive process. Dirty barrel, burst shooting - and can break. The cartridge is more difficult to manufacture.

          IMHO, KVM - it's not worth it.

          hi
    6. +1
      15 June 2019 01: 46
      Quote: Astra wild
      bezgilzovy cartridge: capsule and a bullet pressed into gunpowder. Such cartridges immediately equip a special store.

      All this is already there ... "completely"! wink
      For example, the cartridgeless cartridge 4,73 x 33 mm (DM11) .....

      By the way, there are cartridges with both a burning sleeve and a "flying away" sleeve ... hi
      Quote: Astra wild
      The issue with the extraction of sleeves is solved: it will simply burn.

      "Burning out" cartridge case in a caseless cartridge? what
      1. 0
        15 June 2019 10: 29
        "Burning out" cartridge case in a caseless cartridge?


        Well, they got used to call it that for 150 years. That which holds the bullet is a sleeve, although in a sleeveless cartridge this is, in fact, a propellant charge.

        hi
        1. +1
          15 June 2019 10: 55
          Good health, I wish! Yes Not quite so ... well, what could be the case, if the cartridge is sleeveless? No. But there can be cartridges with a burning sleeve ..., for example, cartridges in a paper "sleeve" for rifles of the mid-19th century. By the way, then paper sleeves were impregnated with nitrate for better combustion ... paper sleeves with "pyroxylin" impregnation are known. soldier
          1. +1
            15 June 2019 19: 18
            Have a nice one you too!

            Yes, it was from paper soaked with nitrate that I made the rounds for Remington New Armies .44 - it really burns clean.

            A very long time ... to glue. Sometimes I think, well, nafig - it’s easier to pour gunpowder, wad and bullet from the batcher directly into the drum chambers, than to spend time on making cartridges and lubricating bullets.
            1. +1
              16 June 2019 00: 22
              Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
              Sometimes I think, but what for him - it’s easier to pour powder, wad and bullet out of the dispenser right into the drum chambers, than to waste time on making cartridges and lubricating bullets.

              Well, what? Quite a reasonable solution in "polygon-entertainment" conditions! wink At the time when the "remingtones" appeared, they did just that ... and stocked up on a few drums ... hi
              1. +1
                16 June 2019 09: 43
                At the time when the "remingtones" appeared, they did just that ... and stocked up on a few drums ...


                Nope, the army was supplied with ready-made paper cartridges made at arsenals. This civilians have already done as they want.

                The army, by the way, carried three or four revolvers in the war. There was no time to recharge.

                In the picture below, a remake, but in those days it was similar. Only the box was hermetically sealed in wax paper and opened by tearing the shell by tugging at the cord placed in the packaging.

                Factory box with flammable cartridges .44
                1. 0
                  16 June 2019 13: 14
                  Yes ... cartridges in a paper sleeve were also used! But, as far as I know, the participants in the Civil War often bought weapons and ammunition themselves. The first revolvers (and "Remingtons", and "Colts", other "products" ...) used both loading with paper cartridges, and loading with gunpowder, bullets ... And the method of loading revolver drums with gunpowder and bullets successively allowed saving on cartridges! not only "civilians", but also "military" ones "dabbled" in this way of loading. And in order not to bother charging with gunpowder and bullets during the battle, we stocked up on several drums ... By the way, I have repeatedly seen videos on the Internet where drums are sequentially loaded with gunpowder and bullets; but I don’t remember that I came across videos with loading "paper" cartridges ... But I in no way deny that "paper" cartridges are (were), because. I met photos on the internet, mentions of cartridges, and you also provided photographic evidence ... hi
                  1. +1
                    16 June 2019 14: 39
                    Unfortunately, I can’t quickly find a copy of the report, it seems, of the Springfield arsenal for the manufacture of cartridges with a combustible sleeve (combustible). There were pictures of women turning such cartridges.
  20. +1
    14 June 2019 21: 12
    Quote: Lad
    It is necessary to patent. ) And not for a general overview of their hard-won ideas to spread to be stolen.

    "For a sweetheart and an earring from the ear" tobish for the native army
    1. +5
      14 June 2019 21: 35
      Dear Beautiful Stranger! This is where you found Shpakovsky's adherence to the RA? Or RF? He is cosmopolitan, from the word "absolutely"!
      1. +2
        14 June 2019 23: 12
        I wonder how the degree of cosmopolitanism is manifested? Can’t you measure the same as temperature?
        1. +3
          14 June 2019 23: 46
          Only personal external manifestations.
  21. +1
    15 June 2019 06: 25
    Of course, I’m not Tesla, but a simple thought experiment shows that such a bullet with gear pins on the gear racks will not roll, but cut them off. In order for it to roll, it must first be untwisted. Now, even on some planes, the wheels are spun before landing so that the tires do not wear out too quickly.
  22. 0
    15 June 2019 13: 50
    I always welcome creative thought.

    For some reason, the Indian milling cutters (turned into Japanese shurikens) are not mentioned.

    And it would be worthwhile to think about the strange flaw of modern automatic weapons and propose a sleeve forward deflection.
    1. 0
      15 June 2019 19: 21
      Down. Through the hollow fire control handle.
      1. 0
        15 June 2019 19: 55
        Optimal down, forward and slightly to the side. With an angle from the axis of the barrel 45 degrees. 100 shells underfoot on a flat concrete surface is a good reason to fall. Better fly away.
  23. 0
    16 June 2019 18: 12
    Quote: Sea Cat
    But the layout itself p / p and its performance is very, very liked, he asks in his hands, tastefully done.

    Why, I didn't play enough as a child, but now modern materials, modern machine tools ... It's not a rifle from a board to plan and a bolt from a latch to attach. By the way, it really "lies" in the hands and is convenient to use. And the stock folds and pivots perfectly.
  24. -1
    17 June 2019 03: 59
    About bows and tips, everything is turned upside down, as a result of complete nonsense. And enough to use this hackneyed trick with an ellipsis in the middle of the sentence and an exclamation point at the end. All the ideas that they are trying to overwhelm us have long been expressed and sucked to the bone. Article ... minus!
  25. 0
    17 June 2019 23: 54
    With all due respect to the author of the article. A barrel of 2 halves is not a good idea - a breakthrough of powder gases is possible. How does the author of the article intend to produce by stamping ,, half ,, a barrel with teeth for promotion ,, bullets ,,? The holes for the screws (bolts) will most likely have to be drilled. ,, Halves ,, have to be precisely adjusted to each other. The teeth in the barrel will be clogged with soot - how to clean? - ,, elven miracle solution ,,. The author of this article already had such solutions (miracle solutions for cleaning the barrel). Will the disco bullet axis have cloves ready? Or how... ? In the process of manufacturing new cartridges and PP, other questions and problems will arise - an example is swept bullets. Both in the West and we tried, but all the developments were postponed until better times. hi
  26. -1
    19 June 2019 21: 58
    Quote: dokusib
    About bows and tips, everything is turned upside down, as a result, sheer nonsense. Enough to use this hackneyed technique with an ellipsis in the middle of a sentence and an exclamation point at the end. All the ideas that are trying to stun us have long been expressed and sucked to the bone

    Look: this is your opinion. Look - it coincides with someone else? There is a link to two books about arrowheads. Did you read them? And now let's look at the number of views ... There are more than 11000. And 101 comments, including yours. Let's subtract and see what will be in the end and what will be more important?
    1. 0
      7 October 2021 02: 36
      With this logic, "the number of views" based on the materials of Ren-TV and the Battle of Psychics, you can write scientific works))
      1. 0
        7 October 2021 07: 15
        Quote: Daddy Pig
        With this logic, "the number of views" based on the materials of Ren-TV and the Battle of Psychics, you can write scientific works

        Exactly. And these will be very interesting works. However, I have a textbook for universities on public opinion management technologies. In fact, there are 6 of them, 4 in Russia and two in Germany. But I think you will be interested in this one. Publishing house INFRA-M. But briefly the conclusion: people, bulls, and Chinese cars are the same thing. Tsob - bulls to the left, tsobe - to the right, well, and auto - these are two buttons, what if you press there and it goes. 80% are arranged that way!
        1. 0
          8 October 2021 00: 19
          No, I'm not interested.
          By the way, don't miss the turn!
          Tsobe! )))

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