New American commander in chief: a lesson for the Russian Navy

133
On April 11, Admiral William F. Moran was promoted to the position of commander of naval operations of the US Navy (Chief of Naval Operations, in the Russian conceptual apparatus, commander-in-chief of naval forces). For a long time, he served as Deputy Commander, Admiral John Richardson, to conduct an air war, while performing the tasks of the director of the relevant department at the headquarters of the Navy (OPNAV 98).


If everything goes as it is now, then soon Admiral Moran will take the highest military post in the US Navy.




The fact that Richardson’s career prospects were not brilliant was clear a long time ago. Over the past years, the US Navy has demonstrated quite a few failures in shipbuilding (the entire LCS program, technical problems with the Gerald Ford aircraft carrier, a mine action failure in RMMV, and much more), and in the development of adequate concepts (far lack of readiness to fight a strong opponent on the sea, the lag behind the US Air Force in terms of mastering the newest anti-ship missiles, the strange process of choosing a frigate for the US Navy, which promises to be a “dried destroyer” rather than the result of a coherent concept), serious imbalances development (complete absence of escort forces, it is not clear why the additional armament of landing ships weapons), gaps, and gigantic ones, in the training of personnel (collisions of ships reported by the press are only the tip of the iceberg). Of course, the Minister of the Navy, in this case Richard Spencer, is responsible for a significant part of these failures, but everyone understands that once a long time ago captain retired from the Marine Corps, Spencer in modern navy He is not an expert and is based on the opinions of others. It’s clear on whose.

One way or another, Richardson is given a quietly to serve, and he leaves his post to his deputy. Soon, apparently.

As a kind of wish for the new commander, independent observers called the need to raise combat readiness, prepare the Navy for a fight at sea with a strong adversary (meaning primarily China), and carry out a plan to increase the strength of the Navy to 355 pennants, which in itself will very difficult. Moran himself also does not forget about "wonderful people in the Navy" and about the importance of the human factor in future wars. He, in general, is right, especially against the background of how this human factor has recently manifested itself.

We, however, with our domestic problems in this whole situation should be interested in something else, namely, from what kind of strength the new American commander came.

The fact is that Moran is not a submariner. He is not from the surface fleet. He is not a scout and not a deck pilot.

William Morin served in the base patrol for most of his career aviation and is the pilot of the base (read: ground) patrol aircraft R-3 Orion. A very experienced pilot, I must say, a former instructor.

The commander of the US Navy is assigned a person who is strictly not formally a sailor at all. And it is not just like that.

Shore against the fleet


During World War II, basic aviation became the decisive force in the war at sea - long-range patrol aircraft, including flying boats and amphibians, bombers and torpedo bombers aimed at working on surface targets, reconnaissance aircraft.

The battle for the Atlantic is the most striking example of the combat effectiveness of this kind of force. Few people think, but not deck aircraft drove the German submarines to depth, giving the convoys a high chance of reaching the target. These were patrol aircraft taking off from the shore, the converted Liberators and the amphibious Catalina. Of course, it was specifically in the Pacific Ocean that carrier-based aircraft of the United States sank more ships than the base one. But not much. In the Atlantic, the basic aircraft "led" with a crushing score.

The Japanese felt the power of American base aviation and themselves. Not only did American seaplanes detect and sink Japanese ships, and in large quantities, it was also the fact that practically the entire burden of the struggle against the Japanese convoys in New Guinea was borne by the American base bombers. And the results of their efforts turned out to be strongly not in favor of the Japanese. In general, deck aircraft sank 520 Japanese ships and vessels, and the base - 441. Very eloquent statistics.

In turn, the Japanese used their strike seaplanes from the bases on the Marshall Islands very widely - and successfully. The Americans were able to get anything with the Japanese flying boats, until the islands themselves were captured.

There are also loud drowning in the base aviation account. So, the Bismarck could have left if it had not been for patrolling seaplanes from the “shore”. "Tirpitz" was destroyed by ground bomber. Light cruiser "Konigsberg" - the base dive bombers of the Royal Navy.

There are examples of numbers other than these.

In turn, the Germans also gave a lot of brilliant examples of the use of ground planes against surface ships and trade convoys. "Condors" over the Atlantic, bomber attacks over the Baltic, including Rudel’s breakthrough to the Marat, attacks against the USSR Black Sea Fleet, dramatically reducing its payroll, the use of guided bombs against allies in the Mediterranean, attacks on warships during the landing in Italy - Although German aviation did not belong to Kriegsmarine, it made an enormous contribution to the war at sea, and, frankly speaking, it hit the ships and ships above the head.

Today, anyone can find a lot of information on this topic, including reference information, with numbers and dates. And this information will confirm: the base naval aviation (like the purely “ground” aircraft of the Air Force, but working on surface targets) made a decisive contribution to the war at sea.

After the end of World War II, American base aviation continued to develop primarily as anti-submarine. The tasks for the destruction of surface ships went to the batcher and, if necessary, to the Strategic Air Command of the Air Force. The Navy, having abandoned seaplanes at a certain moment, invested enormous resources in basic patrol aircraft - and did not lose. To date, the power of the American patrol aviation has reached such a high level that the actions of submarines of US enemies in real combat conditions, with the massed use of their aircraft by the Americans, will be possible only in areas protected from American aviation or under the ice. At a minimum, until the combat strength of the American BPA is significantly reduced by the attacks of various forces of their enemy. It is not difficult to imagine that it will be very difficult to provide.

Admiral V.S. Vysotsky, the former commander of the Russian Navy, in the 2013 year, allotted to the Northern Fleet's submarines no more than 48 hours until they were completely destroyed, unless their deployment areas were covered by air forces, including the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov. In the most obvious way, he was right.

The US base patrol aircraft, based on the ground, is nevertheless the “cornerstone” of the naval power of the US Navy. And the importance of the US Navy to its development is very significant. Thus, the unit was among the branches of the forces that received a fundamentally new weapon system after the end of the Cold War — the Poseidon basic patrol aircraft P-8.

In general, the fact that the new commander of the US Navy came out of the "coastal" pilots should not surprise anyone, especially considering his biography.

Achievement list


1981 - graduated from the Naval Academy in Annapolis.

With 1981 - in flight crews of the base patrol aviation, 44,45,46 squadron patrol, instructor in retraining of flight crews in the 30 squadron (training in US base aviation), later commander of the 2 patrol reconnaissance wing, zn-ZH-88-NI command officer; the ocean, then the departure of the “ground” in the 6-e wing, security officer and assistant commander for maintenance, administrative positions in the Navy Human Resources Bureau, the US Commander in the Pacific, director of the Navy's service personnel.

2006 - received the second higher military in the National Military College, in Newport.

From 2007 to 2008 in the apparatus of the commander of naval operations. Promoted to flag officer.

With 2008, he is the commander of the basic patrol aviation and at the same time is responsible for waging an air war as a whole at the headquarters of the Navy, being the deputy director for air warfare, and later the director for air warfare.

With 2013 - Chief of Staff of the Navy.

From 2016 - Deputy Commander of Maritime Operations.

He flew regularly and performed combat missions from air bases:
Brunswick, Maine.
Jacksonville, FL.
Whidby Island, WA.
Hawaii.
Sigonella, Sicily.
Roth, Spain.
Leyges, Azores.
Keflavik, Iceland.
Misawa, Japan.
Diego Garcia, Indian Ocean.
Masirah, Oman.
Bahrain.

He is a high-class pistol shooter and has a special medal for it.

It is easy to see that the service experience of Admiral Moran exceeds that of most sailors - he served and performed combat missions in all theaters, was familiar with a very large number of bases and regions, occupied both command and administrative and staff positions, was an instructor pilot, was familiar with combat management of the carrier strike group, managed in our category personnel service of the Navy, and not only recruitment, but also personnel training, and dealt with all issues related to the war in the air at the headquarters of the Navy.

Two higher military educations, both in elite vvuz of the USA.

Formally, it is more than a good candidate for a commander.

According to the actual ... any anti-submarine pilot whose task is to destroy submarines knows the tactics of submarines and the limits of their capabilities, understands hydroacoustics, knows how to build interaction with both surface and submarine forces, knows how to organize joint combat use with deck aircraft. Roughly speaking, he generally knows more than sailors. And if he was also engaged in reconnaissance ... Moren was engaged in it.

New American commander in chief: a lesson for the Russian Navy

The P-3C Orion is not a ship, but for the Americans there is not much difference - this is also the Navy, and its pilots are just as much a Navy as the sailors.


Let us once again draw attention to this fact - the “ground” (not ship) pilot has the rank of admiral and turned out to be a suitable candidate for the position of commander of the Navy, and there is every reason to believe that he is better prepared for this work than many sailors of equal strength - at least by virtue of more extensive experience. And the basic patrol aviation turned out to be a supplier of personnel for the staffs of all levels and, as it now turns out, for command posts, all levels too.

And here we need to look at ourselves and ask the question: what about this?

We


The conclusions about the role of aviation in the war at sea, to which the Americans arrived after the Second World War, in general, corresponded to those to which the domestic experts arrived. The differences were in relation to aircraft carriers - for ours they remained a bare theory, although they were always considered useful and necessary (under Khrushchev and a little after - they were considered unofficially).

What contribution to the war on the sea on the Eastern Front was made by naval aviation, wrote well Lieutenant-General V.N. Sokerin, former commander of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Baltic Fleet.

During the Second World War, the role of naval aviation as the main force in the fighting at sea was clearly defined. It accounted for more than 50% of the tonnage of transport ships and more than 70% of combat and auxiliary ships lost by Nazi Germany from the effects of our fleet as a whole.
During the exploits of 141 during the Great Patriotic War, the Baltic Aviator was awarded the title Hero, and four (Stepanyan, Rakov, Chelnokov, Mazurenko) were awarded this title twice.


And even where the fleet and the pilots sank the German warship, the fleet has the T-31, and the aviators have the Niobe, though it was not a full-fledged ship, although it was drowned by mistake, but, generally speaking, able to snap back, and larger in size and displacement than the T-31 sunk in battle by the Baltic forces. The aircraft were "cooler" here.

After the Second World War, the USSR for several decades created a powerful in number anti-submarine aircraft and sea-launched rocket-carrying aircraft, which cannot be compared with anything in the world.

In theory, pilots with their knowledge of all theaters at once, with their understanding of what surface ships were (they were their targets, they had to know everything about them), submarines (anti-submarine targets and “colleagues” of missile carriers, sometimes together with them attacks), with the experience of constant clashes with the Americans over the sea, and an understanding of what enemy aircraft can do with the surface fleet without cover, would have to become the "fresh blood" of the fleet, the people who would dilute our embarrassing doctrines with their bold and with elym I look from top to bottom.


Naval pilots of the USSR and Russia were often familiar with the enemy much better than the crew. Overflight of the US Navy Missile Cruiser by Soviet Il-38


But this did not happen, and the fault is based on the caste system in fact the relationship in our Navy.

Who commands the Russian naval aviation (what is left of it)? Hero of the Russian Federation, fighter pilot of ship aviation Igor Sergeyevich Kozhin.

What is his military rank? Major General. Being a sea pilot ("more sea" pilot than a pilot from an aircraft carrier, it is simply impossible to think up), I.S. Kozhin has a combined arms, not naval rank. Like all pilots of naval aviation of the country.


Major General, Hero of Russia Igor Sergeyevich Kozhin, Commander of Naval Aviation of the Navy


This problem was previously written in the article. “Broken wings. Will naval aviation be reborn? ”. Recall a short quote from there:
The pilots, whose planes were the main striking force of the Navy in a non-nuclear war, and the "eyes" of the fleet, and its "fire brigade" capable of arriving on command anywhere in the country in a matter of hours, did not become "their own" in the fleet. The psychological problem suddenly became organizational.
Naval pilots had general military ranks. Their career opportunities were limited in comparison with the crew. On the whole, naval aviation was treated as a subsidiary of the troop of forces with respect to surface and underwater forces. While the Soviet government could “flood” the armed forces with all the resources necessary for them, it was tolerable. But in 1991, the year of Soviet power was gone, and the abscess burst.


But much less "combed" option from Lieutenant-General V.N. Sokerina:

10 years of service as generals in the air forces of the Northern and Baltic fleets give me the right to say: over the past several decades, the fleet has developed a stable, handed down from generation to generation, prejudiced, to cynicism, disdainful attitude towards the air forces of the fleets. Everything negative that takes place on ships is smoothed out or hidden altogether. Any small thing in aviation swells from a fly to the size of an elephant. Aviation has long been and remains the "stepdaughter" of the Pope fleet.


And it was so, at least since the time of the war, if not earlier. The fleet in the person of officers from the crew does not consider aviation as a tool of decisive importance, and does not see its equal in the pilots - refuses to see. As a result, in difficult years, aviation goes “under the gas cutting” first, and career prospects, and, consequently, the expectations of the future for sea pilots are seriously limited without any reason for this. And this is a blow to the hands, a serious demoralizing factor generating nihilism and undermining loyalty. After all, an outstanding person cannot but have ambitions, even if he is a warrior. As, for example, I.S. Kozhin can get a lieutenant general? Only by service or in the form of rewarding. There is no career position commensurate with the rank of lieutenant general in naval aviation.

And, of course, the intellectual potential of the flying brotherhood is not used even by a third.

And in the conditions when aviation is the main force in the naval war! What a contrast with the Americans, in whom the Orion pilot has grown to the commander and received Admiral of the Navy!

On the other hand, there is a disregard for the development of naval aviation on the part of the commanders of the crew. After all, money is often not enough, and now the planes begin to receive kerosene on the basis of the residual principle, the raid decreases, repairs are not carried out ...

Due to the geographical features of the country, the Russian Navy is “doomed” either to have a strong base air component or to be defeated in the first war. And, it should be understood that this component is controlled, as a rule, by very clever people, to whom their “air-sea” service gave the broadest horizons and deep tactical knowledge, far beyond the “kind” of forces.

And there is no reason for the existing caste approach to be maintained when there are seafarers — important and necessary people, with sea ranks and career prospects, and there are pilots, with a different title system and an excellent form of clothing — and limited career prospects, sort of people of the second varieties occupying a subordinate position.

In order to break down this caste approach, it is extremely necessary to revalidate all naval aviation personnel to get titles of identical seafarers (was a major, became a captain of the third rank, etc.), and further discovery for pilots, navigators and all the rest of the same prospects crew members have growth in the staff line, possibly with retraining at the Naval Academy (VUNC Navy "Naval Academy named after Admiral of the Fleet NG Kuznetsov"), with subsequent work at headquarters not only in units and (I want hope tsya) naval aviation connections, but also in the headquarters of surface and underwater (especially true for antisubmarine with their knowledge) forces. There is no problem in this, and worse than now it will not be perfect, much more likely that it will be better.

It would also be worthwhile to take a closer look at the Anglo-Saxon system of appointing aircraft carrier commanders — if we have one (for the time being), then the commander must be assigned the most appropriate one. And there is an opinion that a pilot-batcher in this capacity may be at least as good as a sailor from the crew. At least, an understanding of how to set a task for a ship's air regiment at a pilot is better definitely.

And if suddenly some native of naval aviation turns out to be the most suitable candidate for the role of fleet commander, then why not? After all, naval aviation is part of the Navy, right?

Earlier, with their own hands, the Navy actually defeated its naval aviation, depriving itself of both a long arm for a long distance strike, and “eyes” capable of seeing what was going on outside the range of existing radars, and “ears” capable of “counting the blades” going somewhere then in the depths of the enemy submarine.

All this needs to be “reversed” and begin to bring the situation to a normal one. And the alignment of the status of naval aviation with other arms of the Navy, as well as the equalization of the status of sea pilots with other military personnel of the Navy, are a necessary step along this path. The captain of the first rank in the fleet can still try to wake himself up in front of the pilot-colonel, but in front of another captain of the first rank. Just by subordination. And we have to do this if one day we want to get naval aviation, corresponding in its capabilities to the challenges and dangers facing the country.

In the meantime, let the personality of the future American commander make us all think properly.
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133 comments
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  1. +18
    22 May 2019 15: 12
    The Yankees do not spit literate admiral, here, what is not the admiral, then I want to spit.
    And exceptions, as you know, only confirm the Rule.
    1. +6
      22 May 2019 15: 18
      We did not invent that the admirals have their own sons ...
      A track record, as well as education (s) are inspiring.
      1. +1
        22 May 2019 16: 41
        Quote: VeteranVSSSR
        We did not invent that the admirals have their own sons ...

        I'm afraid this refers to pre-revolutionary times.
        1. 0
          29 May 2019 14: 41
          Wealth is still clear, but when the posts are inherited in droves and to a new malaise. Unfortunately this is the case! And unfortunately, he doesn’t want to correct the deviation head, he only tightens the nut harder, protecting himself from the body and tail!)))
    2. -3
      22 May 2019 17: 16
      As Donald Rumsfeld said, a disaster does not occur when we know that we don’t know something, but when we don’t know it.
      1. 0
        29 May 2019 14: 44
        Great phrase. Remember to.
        Confirms: Knowledge is power!
    3. +10
      22 May 2019 21: 04
      In reality, they are full of idiots, and we have quite a few intelligent admirals, but our system is not working, and at least you are intelligent, even though there is no ...

      This is the problem.
      1. +6
        23 May 2019 07: 55
        It is obvious even to me that the crisis is systemic; and it's not only and not so much in naval aviation. The most offensive thing is that the boss is so comfortable for everyone, moreover, most of them benefit from this. In training, we have a lot of seams, in the 90s it was even better, because the teachers of the Soviet school were still alive. Now, not only do the states cut, but the situation is such that those who remain in the service will envy those dismissed. They load all sorts of crap, astronomical time to prepare for the next lesson simply does not remain. Those who disagree survive by all means. "Tomorrow will only get worse" ©
      2. +2
        24 May 2019 08: 19
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        In reality, they are full of idiots, and we have quite a few intelligent admirals, but our system is not working, and at least you are intelligent, even though there is no ...

        In fact, back in the nineties, the practice began to be established to bring either obsequious or cute boys closer to the "inner circle" ... I simply do not want to talk about relatives and fellow countrymen. Why has this practice been established since the 90s? Yes, because intelligent and independent officers took advantage of the possibility of dismissal to start from a "clean slate", but remained in the service (especially the staff) ... In a word, whoever remained - he remained ...
        Quote: Earthshaker
        It’s obvious even to me that the crisis is systemic; and it’s not only and not so much in naval aviation.

        Yes Yesterday they showed the awarding of state awards to "outstanding" people of the country: Matvienko and others ... So they noted for their huge personal contribution. And what did they "give out"? Matvienko was only able to announce her 47-year experience, of which the most fruitful (??? in terms of "grabbing"?) Period is work "under your leadership, Vladimir Vladimirovich" ... fellow
        It’s just that the horror makes it out of such an obscurity ... And where are those whose contribution is commensurate that you can touch?
    4. 0
      23 May 2019 12: 03
      the American system is greatly saved by paranoia in society - everyone distrusts each other and sister-in-law, as popular in our headquarters, works very poorly there.
      Therefore, all those who occupy high positions usually deserve this objectively, otherwise the neighbors will immediately sit them.
    5. -2
      24 May 2019 12: 31
      where not spit-competent admiral

      Yes Yes. So sensible that even a candidate for US vice president confuses the Czech Republic with Chechnya. Not tired of spitting in the mirror?
  2. +3
    22 May 2019 15: 18
    It is absolutely clear that top-level managers must undergo special training in expanding their potential abilities to analyze large and different levels and dynamics of process development. Operational thinking and the speed of making algorithmically constructed decisions is a success not only of individual leaders, but of the whole company. since the criteria for the selection of leaders fall on people with experience of positive achievements, etc., which is extremely small for working in constantly updated situational processes.
    1. +12
      22 May 2019 17: 22
      the existing training system for the command staff of the U.S. Navy developed back in World War II and has shown high efficiency ...
      they easily have a Annapolis graduate serving in the submarine for a couple of years, then studying in courses and leaving for the NK, leaving the NK at the headquarters of the operational compound, and again returning to the ship's position ...
      all surface NK and submarine commanders of the U.S. Navy without fail serve in the headquarters of operational formations before taking the cap position on the bridge ... and this is very reasonable ...
      By the way, among the caps of aircraft carriers there are many pilots of carrier-based aviation ... for them, this is the norm ...
      and here ... the summer flew to the submarine or NK and you’re either a submariner or a submarine all the service ... it’s true that the submarines were sometimes written off as especially guilty somewhere in the OVR ...
      I don’t remember a single case when an officer, after serving at the headquarters, returned to the command staff ...
      1. +5
        22 May 2019 18: 57
        I noted this that their training system, obviously like everyone else, provides for the accumulation of a knowledge base as an experience. I’m talking about a knowledge system as a mathematical basis for working with large volumes of information. Then, having an idea about the method of accumulating, analyzing, moving info flows, you can always consider situations as elements of particular processes in the system of all surrounding events, each of which is in its own dynamics and in its own vectors. Of course, everyone needs such knowledge., But it is extremely important for top managers who determine common strategies at all levels of prospects.
      2. +10
        22 May 2019 20: 47
        Yes, they have it worked out very well. For officers with growth potential up to the commander, political practice is also required - work in positions that imply, for example, work with relevant committees of the Congress or reports to the President.

        We only dream about this.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. +2
        24 May 2019 13: 12
        Quote: kepmor
        the existing training system for the command staff of the U.S. Navy developed back in World War II and has shown high efficiency ...
        they easily have a Annapolis graduate serving in the submarine for a couple of years, then studying in courses and leaving for the NK, leaving the NK at the headquarters of the operational compound, and again returning to the ship's position ...
        All commanders of surface NK and U.S. Navy submarines are required to serve at headquarters.


        It is not true. Since the time of 2MB a lot of time has passed. I explain:
        To get to serve on submarines, and they are all atomic, an Annapolis graduate (this is from 18 to 23% of officers who annually replenish the ranks of the Navy - about 45% are given by NROTC, roughly speaking military departments of civilian universities, the rest is OCS, 90-day courses for graduates those universities where there are no such military departments) spends another two years - the year of the atomic school (Naval Reactors) and the year - underwater. "Lieutenants" (that is, in the primary rank of ensign) on the US Navy boats do not get anyone - usually already elderly seniors with our money. These two years cannot be avoided. Then the officer for a year of service on the boat (that is, closer to our lieutenant commander) receives his "dolphins" and VUS 1120 - a submarine officer - and the opportunity to carry a J-watch (for example, JOOW - Junior Officer On Watch, which helps OOD, officer on duty from among the commanders of the warhead). All, I repeat, ALL US Navy nuclear submarine officers, with the exception of the supplier (the so-called CHOP - DH Logistics), at this level are allowed to independently maintain the watch as a power plant manager, that is, any navigator or miner can manage the operation of the power plant and is responsible for its safety.
        The departure to the NK after this is complete idiocy, and this can happen in two exceptional cases - the officer’s personal desire, provided that he is released, or the unsuitability for the crew on the submarine for health. The third possible case by order is when officers are sent to command Reactor DH for an aircraft carrier, but there is a rank 1 captain, and when and if this happens, you need to clearly understand that this position is offered to a submarine officer who has already gone under water for at least one two-year tour as a senior commander, or even a boat commander. However, this is a unique situation - it is full of SWO (N), nuclear submarines, which usually command the reactors of aircraft carriers.
        In other words, to find an officer in the US Navy who wears underwater golden "dolphins" on his chest BELOW the iconostasis of the planks (previous qualification), and above this iconostasis there are swords and a surfboard shield (SWO), and even more so wings with anchors of a naval pilot (current qualification) is like winning a billion in the lottery. It just doesn't happen. And why? Submariners are the highest paid category of the US Navy officer corps - due to all kinds of allowances for "carriage", complexity and tension, etc.
        Yes, submariners also receive coastal tours interspersed with underwater, but these are coastal tours - at headquarters, and not only at the headquarters (maybe the Air Force, and the army, and the Pentagon, and even Iraq), but even in the latter case, on a camouflage of some kind the ISAF Logistics Officer in Basrah is adorned with rag submarine "dolphins" and the inscription US Navy.
        So please don’t write what you don’t know.
  3. +11
    22 May 2019 16: 01
    Thanks for the unusual article!
    1. +7
      22 May 2019 21: 03
      You are welcome. Glad you liked it.
  4. +8
    22 May 2019 16: 15
    It’s interesting, what kind of re-certification for flight crews does the author write about?!? Is it true that a military pilot of the 1st class, a major, must receive some sort of re-certification in order to get an entry in the certificate and personal file of the Captry? What are the criteria? Round or square ???
    1. +2
      22 May 2019 20: 48
      Formal.
      Even if someone higher decided that he was no longer a major, but a cap-three, then he was formally re-certified. That's what it is about.
      1. +4
        22 May 2019 21: 01
        Not true from you ..
        This has never happened, and in the "opposite" direction, too.
        The "sailors" came to us, changed their clothes, handed over daggers and that's it ..
        1. 0
          22 May 2019 21: 49
          Ranks they changed to a combined arms?
          1. +5
            22 May 2019 21: 56
            Two came, captain and major. On the constructions of the regiment, you can imagine a picture of how they looked in formation in their uniform. In the Office of the regiment and in the AE they were hiding back ...
            Then we changed our clothes and that's it, became "ours" ... We asked them what and how. Nothing and no one re-certified them, even there were no conversations with them ...
            1. +3
              22 May 2019 22: 03
              Look.

              You, for example, major, pilot. Fly to Su-30CM in Omshap.

              The Main Committee is carrying out a reform, and a personal file is being copied to you - now, on the basis of some order, you become a captain of the third rank. Like all pilots MA. Then get the sea shape, insignia, etc.

              So, this is it. It is not necessary for you to arrange any exams, this process can be completely differently constructed, but you MUST turn you into some kind of decision.
              in cap three. This process of re-certification is strictly formal and is.
              Were you who? Major You have been assigned another rank of captain of the third rank, with the re-registration of your personal file, the officer's identity card, etc.
              What was the basis for the assignment? Order №ХХХХ and you have previously assigned the rank of major.

              What is it that does not suit you?
              1. +4
                22 May 2019 22: 11
                I answered you about the topic of your article, where you wrote that you need to recertify pilots (about the order for the Navy, etc. .. you did not mention anything, I asked). Those who want to create commissions and investigate something among the sailors now have a wagon and a small cart ... A classmate flies to MA.
                1. +3
                  22 May 2019 22: 37
                  Just strictly formally in Bukwedski, if you change majors for cap-3, lieutenant colonels for Cap-2, etc., then this is re-certification, even if people just received new shoulder straps and uniform. There was a major, on the basis of a major, he was re-certified in cap-3, but the captain was re-certified in a cap-leu on the basis that he was a captain.

                  For this, I propose to stop the argument.
              2. +4
                23 May 2019 09: 10
                what Yeah, Alexander ... you circled here from the heart !!!!
                Soap, start, start from the beginning ...
                the fleet has a T-31, and the aviators have a Niobe, although it was not a full-fledged ship, although it was sunk by mistake

                Take the CSF as the most belligerent.
                41 year - 15 enemy ships were sunk; PL-5, TKA-2, on mines-4, Air Force-1.
                42 year - PL-13 transports, 2 SKR. On mines - 8 transports, 2 MT, 2 SKR, 1 MO. BRAV-2 transport, 1 TFR. Air Force-3 Transport and BDB, NK-1 PL.
                43-th year-PL-8 transports, 10 warships. Air Force-4 Transport, 1 Minesweeper. TKA-2 transport and auxiliary. Ship. On mines - 1 transport, 1 MT. NK-1 transport.
                44-year-Air Force-18 transports, 3 naval base, 20 warships. PL-5 transports, 7 warships. TKA-8 transports, 6 warships. The mines are 1 vehicles, 2 warships, NK-3PL.
                Total: For 2,5, the fleet-89 of ships and ships, the Air Force-31 ships and ships
                The planes were “cooler” here.

                8 air regiments and 2's day operation! Not funny!
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                You become the captain of the third rank. Like ALL MA pilots. Then you get a marine uniform, insignia, etc.

                From renaming the title, what will change? You, Alexander, will not understand in any way that the current team crisis is not that they are going upstairs, but that in the 90s, hundreds left the fleet from the fleet! And this is not the fault of the fleet. Now, when the power began to revive the fleet, the crisis was formed in everything and in the command staff in particular. In general, your idea is interesting, the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy pilot, the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force of the Navy Marine, the Commander-in-Chief of the BRAV-submariner .... something is there bully
                Navy pilots, by the way, wear a marine uniform and differ from the rest of the navy only in blue clearance on uniform.
                And yes laughing I was very amused by your Klimov game of unrecognizability !!!
                Alexander, okay, Klimov has a grudge against the Navy for not becoming an admiral, but why do you have such a bzyk?
                1. 0
                  23 May 2019 09: 25
                  Father served in the Air Force DKBF, though in ser. 50s and went into demobilization in marine uniform. Very often he talked about Preobrazhensky, Efremov and Fokin.
                  1. +1
                    23 May 2019 09: 27
                    Quote: kvs207
                    Very often he talked about Preobrazhensky, Efremov and Fokin.

                    I wonder what your father said about Fokine?
                    1. 0
                      23 May 2019 10: 49
                      Honestly, this is a long-standing affair and therefore, I remember very little. My father was a commander of the shooters division of the airfield guard battalion in Riga (I think in the vicinity), where Fokin often appeared.
                      1. +2
                        23 May 2019 11: 07
                        They said in the Navy that it’s better to serve 5 years in prison than serving a year near Fokine
                2. 0
                  23 May 2019 12: 54
                  Take the CSF as the most belligerent.
                  ...
                  Total: For 2,5, the fleet-89 of ships and ships, the Air Force-31 ships and ships


                  You understand what "ships" there were. In fact, a sea battle, at sea and against a real "no discounts" warship besides what I mentioned, can you present?

                  8 air regiments and 2's day operation! Not funny!


                  Well, the attempts of the English to cover Tirpitz count, we laugh together. The fact that you wrote this PLUS naval aviation is real - the ability to quickly concentrate strike forces in large quantities.

                  From renaming the title that will change?


                  You will not be able to throw ponts as beforelaughing

                  And if it's no joke, then ranks are only part of the question, there must be pre-planned career paths so that an intelligent pilot could, after a certain moment, grow along the headquarters line, not only in aviation, and without the "upper bar" for his position and rank. As a result, firstly, the command of the Navy will be more diluted by pilots, and secondly, the commanders from the ship's personnel will better understand the capabilities and role of aviation (inevitably).

                  There are three goals here.
                  First, do not be scattered talents, especially in light of the fact that you yourself write about the personnel crisis, secondly, to prevent such distortions in financing and developing the Navy, when aviation becomes the first victim of any reductions, savings, etc. Thirdly, the admirals are better versed in aviation issues, and sometimes they talk about the admirals to persecute them when they talk with pilots.
                  And such integration solves all these problems.

                  and differ from the rest of the fleet only blue clearance on the epaulets.


                  Yeah. And the address "Comrade Major". And in vain. I would erase these differences even in small things. And above I wrote why.

                  And yes, laughing, I was amused very much by your game with Klimov in unrecognized !!!
                  Alexander, okay, Klimov has a grudge against the Navy for not becoming an admiral, but why do you have such a bzyk?


                  Klimov left the fleet CAM. And I do not see his anger at the Navy as in appearance of the Armed Forces. On individual people and their malicious ones, as he considers solutions, yes, but this is not equal to malice against the fleet. I didn’t understand about the unrecognition; we’ve got to know each other.
                  And I do not have anger on the fleet, I, on the contrary, for everything good, against cuts on military programs, so that there are more ships and airplanes, well, more rockets ...

                  What did you think?
                  1. +2
                    23 May 2019 14: 10
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    In fact, a sea battle, at sea and against a real "no discounts" warship besides what I mentioned, can you present?

                    Buddy, Alexander, 80% of naval battles in WWII were against transports and tankers !!!!!
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    In fact, a sea battle, at sea and against a real "no discounts" warship besides what I mentioned, can you present?

                    Fight um. Smashing with EM. Z-26 with a cover and hit Z-26 from the second salvo.
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    You will not be able to throw ponts as before

                    Personally, I have not seen any Ponte for my practice!
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    from communication with pilots sometimes the hair stands on end when they start jokes about admirals to poison.

                    laughing Pilots sea? And if the pilots of the sea, Alexander is the good old truth ... do not believe the sailors and pilots!
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    And such integration solves all these problems.

                    She won’t decide anything right now !!!! Command shots of the Navy and the Air Force are knocked out by 90-mi! It’s hard to find a ship’s commander, not just the Commander-in-Chief !!! You put Kozhin now the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, I guarantee that in a personal meeting you will learn a lot about yourself! Since the 2010 of the year, the fleet has only just begun to go to sea; a bunch of senior officers have no practice in commanding formations far from their shores! Do you recall the circus that was at the first mooring of Grigorovich to the Mine wall in Sevastopol? To lead you need PRACTICE! Return for example your friend Maxim to the fleet, give him the position of the flag of the mineral brigade and ask if you can handle each other ??? The situation is one-on-one as at the end of the 30's, until the cones were full, the experience did not come! And all your crying Yaroslavna just nothing !!!!!
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    I'm the other way around

                    That's exactly what the other way around, in Soviet times they said ... pouring water on the mill of imperialism! The fact that you and Klimovy manure are falling asleep in the command of the Navy will not move forward from this. You are constantly with Maxim with the flickering haze of mystery declare that there are talents, but the enemies of the people do not give them life! Name, Sasha, announce the name of the talent and let the people rejoice and see their hero !!!!!
                    1. 0
                      23 May 2019 15: 13
                      Fight um. Smashing with EM. Z-26 with a cover and hit Z-26 from the second salvo.


                      This is a very muddy story. But with the T-31, everything is clear - carried out without question. With Niobe, too, everything is clear.

                      Personally, I have not seen any Ponte for my practice!

                      I set up a smiley there gee.

                      Pilots sea? And if the pilots of the sea, Alexander is the good old truth ... do not believe the sailors and pilots!


                      So I do not believe laughing And then the remnants of faith in humanity would have been extinguished long ago.

                      Command shots of the Navy and Air Force knocked out 90-mi! The commander of the ship is hard to find, not like the Commander in Chief !!! Put you now Kozhina Commander of the Navy, I guarantee that in person you will learn a lot about yourself! The fleet from 2010 of the year has only just begun to go fully into the sea, a bunch of senior officers do not have the practice of leading units in the distance from their shores! Do you recall the circus that was at the first mooring of Grigorovich to the Mine Wall in Sevastopol? What is needed to lead the practice!


                      Sergey, I did not offer Kozhin to the Commander-in-Chief, here you yourself laughing
                      Regarding the rest - from the end of 2000 money began to flow into the fleet. Denzhischi. There were so many combat trips that at least one third of the BOD had a knocked out resource. The question is - how did it turn out that with all this the officers have no practice?

                      Further, the knocking out did not stop at the 90s, the last wave of knocking out is Serdyukov's pogrom. That is, already "fresh" times.
                      After that, the mother infantry entered the command of the Navy, with all the attendant types of roll in the ISCs and the sub-melt.

                      Now the question is - where will the officers get their practice from, if everything is slipping into a "gentleman's set" - a single / pair campaign, or with the Caspian Caliber?
                      And this set arose under the influence of the land GSH, which is generally interested in nothing but its current priorities. There were Calibres, there was a counter-piracy patrol, now here again they are thinking about something at their military level, then they will lower it as guidelines.

                      Plus the fault of the fleet itself, for example, that with naval aviation it became a purely naval joke.

                      I just don't like it all.

                      From the fact that you are falling asleep to the command of the Navy with Klimov dung, this will not move.


                      Is not a fact. Totally. Just move a little bit. But then something else will be added, and now, and more ...
                      I do not consider it necessary to give unclean or simply stupid comrades in uniform and without obtyapyvat their affairs in complete silence.
                      Where can I highlight there. How it turns out.

                      You constantly with Maxim with letting in a haze of mystery declare that there are Talents, but the enemies of the people do not give them life! Name, Sasha, announce the name of talent and let the people rejoice and see their hero !!!!!


                      Sergei, take every third in the group "from Cap-times to rear-admiral" and you won't be mistaken.
                      The question is that within our system, none of them will change anything, even if desired.
                      1. +1
                        24 May 2019 09: 32
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        So I do not believe

                        I can be trusted bully
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        The question is - how did it turn out that with all this the officers have no practice?

                        Answer. How many of yours have been replaced by senior staff and commanders on 7-mi BOD for 8 years? Take for example the BOD of the Fists from 1990 to 2010, the 10 commanders changed, i.e. 10 senior officers who cannot unmoor-moor. And they went with the increase in the headquarters, brigade, academy. From 2010 to 2018, only the 1 Commander has changed! Does this mean something to you?
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        from the end of 2000x money began to flow into the fleet. Money

                        what How do denzhishes affect the increase in mass skills with a small number of ships?
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        here everything is slipping into a "gentleman's set" - a single / double hike, or with the Caspian Caliber?

                        smile How many DMZ running ships in the same SF? And how many of them are needed for the database in the operational area of ​​the Federation Council? And how many in this connection the Northern Fleet can give ships for long trips without much damage to itself?
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        I do not consider it necessary to give unclean or simply stupid comrades in uniform and without obtyapyvat their affairs in complete silence.

                        In this case, you need to integrate into the problem itself, get to know it from the inside, and, I apologize, do not crawl outside relying on someone’s words and opinions. Find out the essence of the problem, why, how and why! You only get one thing ... stick it on! Drive him! All thieves! All the bum! This is ordinary populism, Andrey!
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Yes, every third in the group "from Cap-times to rear-admiral" take it and you won't be mistaken.

                        I will return again to Aesop's language. How N.G. Kuznetsov became Commissar of the Navy?
                        The first to notice Kuznetsov was Nesvitsky, then the "enemies of the people" Kozhin and Orlov sent him to the academy. That is, if you transfer this to the present, you need to select competent, proactive, with intelligence in the eyes of officers, promote them in service with an interval of 2-3 years, send them to the Academy, then again with an interval of 2-3 years - start, commander, NSh brigades, then another Akdemiya of the General Staff, then a brigade, division, the NS of the fleet, the fleet, the NGS of the fleet, and only after that the commander in chief! Now, right now, Avakyants is 61 years old (age limit), Nosatov as an option, but little experience, Evmenov is just as inexperienced ..... well, that's it! Kaprazov for the post of Commander-in-Chief should not be offered!
                      2. +1
                        24 May 2019 09: 57
                        Answer. How many of yours have been replaced by senior staff and commanders on 7-mi BOD for 8 years? Take for example the BOD of the Fists from 1990 to 2010, the 10 commanders changed, i.e. 10 senior officers who cannot unmoor-moor. And they went with the increase in the headquarters, brigade, academy. From 2010 to 2018, only the 1 Commander has changed! Does this mean something to you?


                        This suggests poor fleet management in general. Believe me, Sergey in the fleet is the commanders of the ships, able to moor, and able to teach this to others. It is necessary, as you yourself said to move them up.

                        How do denzhishes affect the increase in mass skills with a small number of ships?


                        Yes, they allow you to organize combat training of a large number of people on small numbers of ships. Let it be inferior to full, but better so than nothing.

                        In this case, you need to join the problem itself, get to know it from the inside, but, I apologize, do not crawl on the outside based on someone's words and opinions. Find out the essence of the problem, why, how and why! You only get one thing .. beat it up! Get him! All thieves! All the muddle! This is ordinary populism.


                        Firstly, there is no denying that we have a bulk of thieves and stupid people at all levels, and this has already become a problem. Remember dialectics - quantity turns into quality? We are already at the stage of "accelerating" this process.
                        Secondly, I would gladly listen to more competent people if they were not shy about expressing themselves. But we are all differently organized, alas. The state is simply unaccountable to society. In the United States, there are Senate committees, to which the military are forced to report, and as a result, problems are much more complicated, although they do, of course, this too. With us, if you do not throw stones at the windows, you will be quiet and grace between Tsushima and the Crimean Wars.

                        We have to pick up a stone from the ground and throw it in the window. Better so than nothing.
                        Next - on the merits, I consider myself right. And for 20386, and for the flock of RTOs for the last money, and for 22160 and the role of Chirkov, etc. And I have arguments. I never blame anyone for anything. The same Klimov served on the Pacific Fleet under Evmenov and overlapped with him, and he allows himself a ride on this basis. I do not allow it. I think everything is fair.

                        I will return again to Aesop's language. How N.G. Kuznetsov became Commissar of the Navy?
                        The first to notice Kuznetsov was Nesvitsky, then the "enemies of the people" Kozhin and Orlov sent him to the academy. That is, if you transfer this to the present, you need to select competent, proactive, with intelligence in the eyes of officers, promote them in service with an interval of 2-3 years, send them to the Academy, then again with an interval of 2-3 years - start, commander, NSh brigades, then another Akdemiya of the General Staff, then a brigade, division, the NS of the fleet, the fleet, the NGS of the fleet, and only after that the commander-in-chief!


                        Yes, that's right, and this is what the Americans did in the first half of the eighties, and they did it hard, accelerating the dismissal of unpromising officers to move promising people, moving people accelerated after a couple of ranks up in a year or two.

                        I agree with you. And in our conditions it can be done
  5. mvg
    +1
    22 May 2019 16: 31
    Well, did Russia have naval aviation left? How many Tu-142 and Tu-22 are in service? IL-38 is not more than 20, although they write about 46 aircraft for 2016, of which only 8 are modernized. And this is far from the state Orion
    1. +4
      22 May 2019 16: 41
      mvg
      But what, Mig 31, Su 27, Su 35, Su 24 in naval aviation does not count?
      1. mvg
        +2
        22 May 2019 16: 50
        And what, at least one of the above can drag, for example Onyx? Or look for a submarine? How can they threaten a nuclear submarine or AUG? MiG-31K, from which the radar was removed? Who will give him TSU? 4 satellites of the Legend?
        1. +5
          22 May 2019 20: 46
          mvg (Maxim)
          Who told you that they removed the station from the MiG 31 K? Did you have a dream? It happens....
          1. mvg
            -3
            22 May 2019 20: 51
            Well, for example from here
            https://topwar.ru/143771-kinzhal-pod-bryuho-specialisty-neodnoznachny-v-ocenkah-novogo-oruzhiya-dlya-mig-31.html
            1. +7
              22 May 2019 20: 54
              Maxim ... well, you are like a child, exactly ....
              For you, the article and the opinion of the author on VO, as the opinion of the last resort ??
              You are a naive person, however ...
              1. mvg
                -4
                22 May 2019 21: 08
                You are a naive person, however ...

                Still looking for info? Well, I, it seems, do not always believe everything, but I saw the fact that the radar station was dismantled in several sources .. And with the Dagger under his belly, he is far from an interceptor. Have you seen a photo of a MiG-31K with a dagger and simultaneously with missiles in-in?
                PS: I try, before giving a comment, to look for something on the Internet. I do not take Old from rambler ..))
                1. +7
                  22 May 2019 21: 26
                  Maksim...
                  Look for what you want ... Your right .. But believe the specialist (if your "religion" allows you), everything is fine with the station ...
                  And you justify your opinion on the basis of an Internet? Cool...

                  And by the way ... in one of the articles here on VO on this topic, I and other comrades lucidly explained everything about centering (if you remove the station and what will happen to the plane, and about the new test cycle, etc.).
                  Seek and enlighten ...
                  1. mvg
                    -3
                    22 May 2019 21: 37
                    Dmitry, I know you are a former pilot. My religion allows you to listen to someone else's opinion, if it is reasoned, then I even believe.
                    But you have long retired. I can see the photo, or real TTX, I believe. I read that the glider was facilitated to hang the dagger .. Donated radar.
                    PS: Nothing personal. There is no smoke without fire. They themselves do not come up with Old, they use some kind of material. The author, it seems, is a constant at VO. On a lie frank, was not exposed.
                    1. +6
                      22 May 2019 21: 50
                      Maksim
                      Once again I’ll write ... you can’t lighten the glider, due to the radar ... This affects the alignment of the aircraft very much. This is a new full cycle of testing the entire aircraft for several years, with the rewriting of the RLE ...
                      Therefore, we took the "easy" path, removed the APU and of course the AKU.
                      There are no "former" pilots, there is such a saying. ..
        2. 0
          22 May 2019 21: 02
          Su-30M theoretically can, and he is in naval aviation, there would be Onyxes more ...
          1. mvg
            -1
            22 May 2019 21: 10
            Hindus to hang Onyx (Bramos) strengthened the glider, something else was added to the structure .. Onyx weighs 3 tons, are there such pylons on the Su-30SM? Doubts, and there were no tests in the Union. There is no information anywhere. Only Tu-22.
            1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      22 May 2019 18: 12
      Well, did Russia have naval aviation left?


      Well, if it’s normal to approach, then besides the flight crew there are also support services, the same is not for sailors. He himself served in the separate marine division of radio and lighting supplies, although the duty station is interesting, remember the parade with the Chinese at the Vostok exercises, the Zugol training ground, and the parade at the runway of the Steppe garrison.

      Far from the sea.
      1. mvg
        +2
        22 May 2019 18: 26
        Well, if it’s normal to approach, then in addition to the flight crew there are also support services

        The real danger was represented by the Tu-22M2 / 3 with 2-3 Onyxes and Tu-142, the rest is not important. Well, maybe the Su-30SM, which are going to replace the Su-24 with the Black Sea Fleet, if, like the Su-30MKI, they teach it to carry something, like Bramos. But this is only 1 rocket under the belly. And in the USSR, they considered the Tu-22 regiment with 3 anti-ship missiles under the belly. And even his chances in the confrontation with the AUG were estimated at several percent. Our "friends" have about 60-70 nuclear submarines, and this is the most dangerous thing for our strategists, who are only a couple of them on the base at the same time. For our strategists to leave the base, it is necessary to clear the way, at least for the Northern Fleet, and who will do this? There are only 38 modernized Il-8s, and so these are aircraft of 1959 (the beginning of operation). The chances are, frankly, not much. I do not believe in the anti-submarine capability of pr 1155. Others have even worse chances.
      2. 0
        23 May 2019 07: 55
        Quote: user
        Far from the sea.

        Our nachfin sailor was in 1988 in Kushka, in the middle of the desert ....
    3. 0
      22 May 2019 20: 49
      Well, there is also an omshap in the fleets, there are in general under 40 flying anti-submarines, there are deck-boats from the Kuznetsov, there are helicopter pilots.
      So it is recruited.
      1. mvg
        0
        22 May 2019 21: 00
        40 flight anti-submariners

        In 2016, there were 40 anti-submariners, how many are now in flight condition?
        What Kuznetsov? Which is not tomorrow, so the day after tomorrow will be cut on "needles"? What can deck-mounted Su-33s do? How many are there? 12 pieces? Of these, a couple has undergone modernization and they are only air fighters, on land (water) they work like Su-27. It seems like they taught me how to start up the X-31A, but not a fact.
        And what can the Ka-27M do? There are about 2018 of them for 20. Without modern buoys, with one torpedo.
        1. +1
          22 May 2019 21: 51
          Well, that's all you need to recover.
          1. mvg
            +1
            22 May 2019 22: 12
            need to be restored

            Alexander, you seem to write adequately that the situation is only getting worse. We also use the Soviet legacy. 2 frigates were also laid down at the BDK .. This is a power that had at one time 270 pennants. Cruisers are 40 years old. Ships of the 2nd rank are built for 9 years, before the cruiser was handed over in 3-4 years. The country could afford space programs, BAM, 64 thousand tanks ..
            PS: The factory employed 5 thousand people, now 1200. The factory is exported. Something I do not understand something.
            1. +2
              22 May 2019 23: 04
              Worsens, but not for objective reasons. If we were unable to have an effective fleet, like any other Djibouti, I would be silent in a rag. But we CAN. Just do not.
              That is why I am signing my thoughts on the tree.
              1. mvg
                +1
                23 May 2019 00: 12
                sign on wood

                A mouse is a squirrel .. I think that the Navy is the most "expensive" type of aircraft. We can barely upgrade the tanks, but here the aircraft carriers want, and some patriots are generally going to make a "death star". Leaders in packs. We cannot handle a ship's turbine for which year, the oreductors are the same. Where are we going to build what and for what money. Polyment-Redoubt was brought to mind for how many years. In the South Caucasus, several dozen times more civil shipbuilding is launched in a year than in Russia. Yes, and more military.
                PS: I don’t know if the Baltic Plant would have managed today from 1144.
          2. +1
            22 May 2019 22: 55
            In the next 10 years, naval aviation will not be restored - they will upgrade what is, 46 IL 38, 22 Tu 142 and 50 Ka 27PL, well, maybe robotic submarines - the hunters will launch in a series with the same NK Package.
  6. -2
    22 May 2019 16: 36
    Well, the pilot was appointed to command the US Navy. Why would the author create a storm in a glass of water?
    1. +4
      22 May 2019 16: 47
      Quote: CommanderDIVA
      Well, the pilot was appointed to command the US Navy. Why would the author create a storm in a glass of water?

      You will remember the situation with the Internal Troops. Who have always been "stepchildren" of the head organization, the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

      In general, we have quite a lot of such gaps. And in terms of provision on the residual principle, and in terms of "career traps"
      1. 0
        22 May 2019 21: 01
        and in terms of "career traps"


        A mortar officer, for example.

        Well, on the subject - naval aviation is now just a trap.
        1. +3
          22 May 2019 21: 43
          What career trap are you talking about?
          Before the lieutenant colonel and colonel, everything is the same, that in the airborne forces, that in naval aviation, there is no difference ...
          And for the general and higher, the same everywhere ...
          Do not mislead people here ...
          1. +1
            22 May 2019 21: 52
            Let's return to Major General Kozhin. How does he get an army general?
            1. +2
              22 May 2019 22: 04
              Do we now have pilots with the rank of army general?

              They will appoint him instead of Viktor Mikhailovich Sevastyanov, and in the machine will receive a lieutenant general .. FOR EXAMPLE?
              And in his place a younger one will be appointed (he can no longer sit on deck on medicine ... there are more stringent requirements for VLK and tolerances for medicine, I know for sure, do not argue with pzhl.)
              1. +1
                22 May 2019 22: 43
                Appoint him instead of Sevastyanova Viktor Mikhailovich, and in the machine will receive a lieutenant-general.


                So it is necessary to appoint. And then in VKS and its missing, if that.

                And amerikosov could command the Navy, or AUG. We have these options are closed for all but the crew. As a result, the flow of intelligent officers from the fleet to other types of aircraft is possible (pilots of the same in the VKS), but the use of their intelligence and talent for the fleet is limited and very strong.
                Because I gave you the example of Kozhin, but there are also anti-sub-missiles. Where do they grow? And they think better in tactics than many of the above-water leaders.

                The fact that deck-ships have strict requirements I am aware of, and that the "short century" is also not surprising.
                1. +4
                  22 May 2019 23: 05
                  We have all the appointments of the highest command staff (from Major General and above, go through the signature of the Supreme Commander), and of course with the recommendation of the Moscow Region and not only ...
                  Do you think the infantry general was appointed to us in the VKS? Although there were rumors about Makushev, and other worthy people ...
                  Therefore, the Navy was even lucky that they appointed the submarine commander in chief ...
                  And you mentioned in the article about the intellectual potential of the flight crew, which is not even used by a third (your quote), it is not used at all (although marine people can now be offended by me))), but there is straightforward thinking in the Navy, without tacks ... the main thing flared pants)
                  1. +1
                    23 May 2019 08: 04
                    And you mentioned in the article about the intellectual potential of the aircrew, which is not even used by a third (your quote), it is not used at all


                    That is why it is necessary to integrate sea pilots into command structures. This is the last talent pool, more people have nowhere to take stupidly.

                    And you say in the army of the Air Force and Air Defense to move ...
        2. 0
          23 May 2019 09: 10
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          A mortar officer, for example.

          Anti-tank men. It is believed that they have zero "Shooting and fire control" - ie. basis in the specialty. Although this should not be the case due to the peculiarities of combat use. On the contrary, they must have high scores in this discipline.

          That is, a career trap out of the blue, not in any way determined by reality.

          Mortarmen are still tolerant. Although here, all the more, there is no reason for "segregation"

          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Well, on the subject - naval aviation is now just a trap.

          And they themselves on which track would prefer to develop, by sea or by air?
          1. 0
            23 May 2019 13: 41
            By aviation, but not because it is radically better, but see Sokerin’s quote.
    2. +1
      22 May 2019 20: 06
      Quote: CommanderDIVA
      Why does the author create a storm in a glass of water?

      PR-- is called! Crying Yaroslavna on a serf ditch in Putivl: offended pilots !!! Yes, much is unfair ... And Sokerine know, but not all that he said is the ultimate truth. Rather, resentment in a man says ...
      Essentially.
      1. I strongly disagree with the author when he declares:
      Earlier, with their own hands, the Navy actually defeated its naval aviation, depriving itself of both a long arm for a long distance strike, and “eyes” capable of seeing what was going on outside the range of existing radars, and “ears” capable of “counting the blades” going somewhere then in the depths of the enemy submarine.
      "Sorry," sir! Who scooped out all the TU-22m3 from the Navy, when the quantitative composition fell down YES ??? Or is the author not aware of how it all happened and what arguments the sailors brought against this decision !? But it was necessary to create a VKS from yesterday's "brooms", and there was no strength, so the MPA fell under the slogan "expediency". And the fleet after that lost 1/3 of the forces capable of solving operational tasks. This is one!
      W-2's, the lament is understandable that the commander-in-chief is not a pilot ... but the commander of the naval aviation is just a "major general". Where is the exit? - And in fact, why can't a trained carrier pilot command an aircraft carrier !? So everything is as easy as shelling pears: no AIR CARRIER! no normal STOCKS! - From whom is the author going to appoint the "Aviation Commander-in-Chief of the Navy" ???
      How to become a "lieutenant general" to the commander of av. Navy? - Build an MRA division in each fleet (or better yet, a PLO division!) And then there will be no questions! In the fleets - major generals, and in the Navy - "lieutenant" !!! But when he is also subordinated to STRATOSPHERE bombers with 3M22 - and "general with a colonel" will be assigned! But this is just the Internet !!! No forces!
      That's it, however! (And you say: - "peacocks"! (S). fellow
      1. +3
        22 May 2019 21: 00
        "Sorry," sir! Who scooped out all the TU-22m3 from the Navy, when the quantitative composition fell down YES ???


        Then at the time to ask, and the Navy tried to save the MRA? They received hundreds of cars from the Soviet Navy in the early nineties. The Tu-22M alone was 165 units.

        But the matter is really different - the naval aviation did not reduce to the MRA.
        There are anti-missiles, there are naval assault regiments, there are helicopter pilots.
        And yes, there are decks.

        So everything is easier than ever: no AIR! no normal DECK SAPS!


        And immediately questions to the command - why after the 2000s, when money went to the fdot, no one bothered with the infrastructure for basing Kuznetsov, why the ship was not repaired properly earlier, although it was repaired, but always "for a season or two "why weren't full-scale exercises of carrier-based aviation carried out at least in the White Sea somewhere, with the departure of the entire air group to repel an air strike, with the departure of a part of the air group to repel the strike, with the performance of continuous combat duty of a detachment of forces in the air, with the fulfillment of aerial reconnaissance tasks, on working out interactions with airborne AWACS aircraft, etc.? Where was it all?

        But Sokerina ask where it all happened. In Kamchatka, naval fighters began to allocate kerosene normally a couple of years ago, before the raid was like in 90's, and not for objective reasons, but because the command decided so, and so far in naval aviation the raid is less than in VKS, it should be the other way around, because tasks are much more complicated.

        All these shoals are subjective, if that. The fleet doesn’t really care about aircraft, almost completely. Without a kick from above, they strive to get rid of her.
        1. 0
          22 May 2019 22: 07
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          and the navy tried to save the MRA?

          And the Navy was asked !? _ no!!! Saved YES !!! and her status! And for this they needed strength, so they took the most "delicious". For some reason, no one on the Be-12 was coveted and the Mi-14 was also not needed by anyone ...
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          why after the 2000s, when money went to the fdot, no one bothered with the infrastructure for basing "Kuznetsov", why the ship was not repaired properly earlier, although it was repaired, but always "for a season or two",
          Sir! Do you think that the Commander of the Northern Fleet never raised these questions? And second: Have you seen the capacity of the shipyard in Rosta? What kind of "full" repair are you talking about? The most he was capable of was maintenance repairs. He did it ... as best he could.
          About flights in 2000 and later on with TAKR. Was the air group ready to fly? You know that the pilots were allowed to fly with TAKR? And Su-33 were in good order? No need to shag grandma! a colleague, if you do not have real data on the state of 273 OXSAP SF.
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          The fleet doesn’t really care about aircraft, almost completely.
          This is utter nonsense! Read, if of course allowed, "Basics ..." - everything is written there. Including the composition of forces in planning and carrying out operations of the fleet to destroy the AUS, etc. Therefore, it is not necessary to impose "one's own vision" of the problem on the forum in the face of direct installations of military documents.
          IMHO.
          1. +1
            22 May 2019 23: 01
            And the Navy was asked !? _ no!!! Saved YES !!! and her status! And for this they needed strength, so they took the most "delicious".


            This is you about 2010 year. But it all started much earlier, very much. In addition, it is not necessary to focus on the MRA, she was not alone in naval aviation.

            And second: Have you seen the capacity of the shipyard in Rosta? What kind of "full" repair are you talking about? The most he was capable of was maintenance repairs. He did it ... as best he could.


            But after a trip to Syria, it was immediately found where to make a normal repair. Only here float by that time already rotted.

            About flights in 2000 and onwards from TAKR. Was the air group ready to fly?


            I can easily understand and accept that in 2000 I was not ready, but that is why she was not ready in 2012-2014 is a completely different question, do not you think? And he even has someone to ask. The money then went to the time for combat training, and huge. Surface ships from trips are not climbs.

            This is utter nonsense! Read, if of course allowed, "Basics ..." - everything is written there.


            Given that the MRA no longer exists, that Omshaps do not exist in all fleets and do not have long-range missiles (although they could), this is no longer important.
            The main work will fall on those VKS units that by the time they need to attack the enemy’s surface forces will not be knocked out in battles.
  7. -6
    22 May 2019 16: 53
    The author probably thinks that that grave with screws and suspended missiles under the wings can fly somewhere to us? Well, well, good luck, guess where.
    1. 0
      22 May 2019 20: 50
      Where it is necessary to fly - they work where there is no enemy aircraft, or use escort fighters, both basic and deck.
      1. +1
        22 May 2019 23: 01
        Now I’ll try to guess at what distance they will fly, if C 400 and 500ki appear at the North Pole — at least 600 kilometers from our bases and outside the range of air defense systems — in fact, on solid ice — hunting to see how this anti-submarine aircraft has its functions will perform.
      2. 0
        23 May 2019 08: 24
        This you will tell in the transfer of Obvious, incredible, good luck.
        1. 0
          23 May 2019 13: 37
          This real world looks like this, if that.
          1. 0
            23 May 2019 22: 49
            These are flights in peacetime - but during a sharp stress, there will be no such flights.
  8. -6
    22 May 2019 18: 04
    Aviation Commander-in-Chief - the beginning of the end of US Navy.

    PS Article - ordered from the Russian Federation laughing
  9. 0
    22 May 2019 19: 49
    Thanks for the interesting article!
    The only gripe: "dramatically" is still inappropriate Anglicism. They say so: 'dramatically reduced', yes. But it's still not very Russian. hi
    1. +4
      22 May 2019 20: 51
      The costs of permanent work with English texts, documents and communication in English.

      Once on the street I almost answered the question "don't tell me the time" in English.
      1. 0
        22 May 2019 22: 34
        Yes, I understand. I myself sometimes sin. For example, from time to time I catch myself on the phrase "Let's see if I can do that", meaning 'Let's see if I can do that'.
      2. 0
        24 May 2019 02: 11
        Once on the street I almost answered the question "don't tell me the time" in English.

        Well, yes, you could have been asked in Aglitsky (the literate people went). And then a classic dialogue like:
        - Hav mach voch?
        - Ten voch.
        - Sach Mach ???
        - Sach.
  10. +2
    22 May 2019 20: 50
    In modern class society, we have a different approach to personnel policy, we go our own way. Professionalism is for the "backward", we have such a "excellent" education that a journalist can manage Roscosmos, his son can successfully run an aviation enterprise, a supernumerary furniture seller could organize there is also a thieving harem at his side, "steer" the Ministry of Defense of the world's largest nuclear power, and what's wrong with that, you think a huckster, even if you steal, you can stay at the trough. Loot, nepotism and personal loyalty (we do not give up our own people and do not abandon them) is the main criterion of our leaders, and professionalism is pampering for slaves, the main thing is to grab behind the cordon at the villa, the country is big and rich enough for everyone.
    1. +1
      24 May 2019 02: 13
      ... the country is big and rich enough for everyone

      Big. Rich Alas, not enough at all. And not even everyone. Sometimes even for life.
      1. +1
        24 May 2019 10: 28
        If you are not from their class, then it is not about you and about me, we are the source of what they have enough
  11. -3
    22 May 2019 21: 33
    Why should Russia take an example from America? An example should be taken from the USSR, from the time of Stalin.
    1. -1
      22 May 2019 21: 54
      We are now copying the times of Stalin, one to one.
      1. 0
        24 May 2019 10: 54
        Leave Stalin and others alone, he died almost a century ago, as long as you can ride on the graves, accusing of our stupidity, venality and wretchedness, the corpses of long-dead great ancestors who created and transmitted to us a great world power and great achievements, which We sold and profited ineptly for the sake of our ambitions, greed and the wretchedness of bourgeois thinking, for jeans and beautiful labels we betrayed our ideals, our country and peoples, having fallen on our knees before the enemy. we have no real idea about these great people in our history, often they drum into us a perverted idea of ​​our history, convincing us of our failure, backwardness and uselessness for the so-called. of the "civilized" world. And we, as in the independent world, although this is also we, a part of us, continue stupidly and like savages to jump on graves and shout the words written to us by our "partners", which is most offensive, with short-sighted and direct inaction, and often and encouraging the authorities, not realizing in their wretchedness in comparison with their own foul ancestors, which thereby deprives themselves of the sacred power and at least virtual respect.
        1. 0
          24 May 2019 13: 06
          Calmer, nerve cells are not restored.
    2. 0
      23 May 2019 23: 54
      Take from Germany. What do you dislike about Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe?
  12. +2
    22 May 2019 21: 36
    Interesting article. Thanks to the author, he raised a huge layer of personnel problems in the armed forces and navy.
    Recently, they discussed why the VKS were appointed to command the land explorer General Surovikin, why the pilot was not nominated. So there are questions.
    The systems are different. If you take it from the beginning, in Russia the army was built according to the Prussian type (army priority over the fleet), in the USA due to the geographical location according to the Anglo-Saxon type (fleet priority over the army). After the advent of aviation, we subordinated it to the army. In the United States, a committee of chiefs of staff was created, which included equal representatives of all branches of the armed forces, and the leadership was distributed according to the stages of development of the operation: loading onto ships and passage by sea - fleet, air operation - aviation, landing - marines, ground operation - army.
    As a result, landowners always and everywhere command us, and in the United States, as we see, there are many more options.
    1. +3
      22 May 2019 21: 54
      As a result, landowners always and everywhere command us, and in the United States, as we see, there are many more options.


      That's it - more options. What it is about.
  13. 0
    22 May 2019 22: 43
    "The Russian Navy, purely due to the country's geographical features, is" doomed "to either have a strong base air component or be defeated in the very first war." - The question is by whom and by what will he be smashed while at our territorial waters - who is so brave to fly into the air defense zone, swim through minefields and into the anti-ship missile system?
    1. 0
      22 May 2019 23: 02
      As usual, the topic of Poseidon is not disclosed. It was necessary to add that we will release Poseidons into the ocean and they will swim there and frighten their enemies.
      1. 0
        23 May 2019 00: 44
        There is an even more promising direction - robotized "wandering" sea mines and missiles from orpeda. Few people want to enter an area where a ship or a submarine can stumble upon a mine, and also the mine itself can hunt for ships and submarines, at different depths, due to their low speeds and sizes, it will be almost impossible to detect them.
  14. +3
    22 May 2019 23: 18
    Alexander. Something you this article only show how far from the realities of the Navy. In VMA, getting a commander’s tact to the group’s tact is already a problem. And flyers captains go there in herds and no one captives them yet and get the most with their flight allowance. And then they come to the headquarters of associations quite normally and get there, by the way, ordinary naval ranks. And about contempt. So it’s precisely the pilots who put lipstick on everyone. And by the way, they can’t lure them into the headquarters above and under the melt with their grated roll. Allowances are lost.
    1. +2
      23 May 2019 08: 20
      And the captains fly there in flocks there and no one more captivates them and get the most with their flight allowance. And then they come to the headquarters of the associations quite normally and receive ordinary sea ranks there by the way.


      Well, my friends came to headquarters with combined arms, and retired with them. Maybe some kind of specificity.
      It is necessary that they do not "receive" ordinary naval ranks, but immediately have them, and that there is no division into pilots and seafarers, except by specialty.
      Because then it turns out the following - all the commanders of the crew, respectively, when it comes to funding, then the search begins to save someone. And the dynamics of changes in the number of AI quite shows who save. Already, the war in Syria was in full swing, and in some parts the raid was on 30 hours per year - the level of 90's.

      The fleet, controlled by the sailors, frankly scored anti-submarine aircraft - Russia now cannot build them and no one cares, instead of real progress in this area, only Kozhin's annual mantra about what "will be in a year", and cartoons from "Radar", with PLO methods from the 70s, under the guise of something promising.
      And this is also the result of the fact that the flyers are a separate caste.
      And the fact that the Indians' Bramoses fly from the Su-30, but we do not have the Onyx - also from there.

      We must not be given the opportunity to get a naval rank when going to headquarters, but from the very beginning, cadets can be driven into heads, as underwater pilots, submariners, and pilots are one team, indivisible, parts of which cannot act without each other, and in which there are no people first class and second too, there is no main kind of forces, and subsidiary, all are important. Up to the fact that the form only stripes differed and nothing else.

      And the captains fly there in flocks there and no one more captivates them and get the most with their flight allowance.


      There is no motivation for career growth, that's all, including material. There is nowhere to grow and there is no need. So they go, then they cut money for admission to flights over a poorly oriented terrain, then "combat" in Syria, if you're lucky, then for something else. A flaw in the system, no more.

      So it is the pilots through the lip all squeal.


      Well, this good from both sides can be heard enough so much, especially in the fleets, where there are specific personalities in which you can spit at a sincere conversation - you can write a book. Understand who is more rude it to put it mildly unproductive. Only this is the problem that the pilots are separate, the sailors are separate, and it must be solved.
  15. 0
    23 May 2019 00: 12
    New American commander in chief: a lesson for the Russian Navy
    He suits us doubles, only this teacher would have gone and drank cold, from the stream, and then answered what kind of world he was ....
    Then exams, tests, .... not, his vile dreams, what to take with a pervert. feel
  16. +1
    23 May 2019 09: 19
    The article is interesting, original, not everything can be agreed, but it is worth listening.
    I myself am a little familiar with Naval Aviation, I saw it in its prime and in decline ... He served in the regiments of naval missile and anti-submarine aviation, I know how things were during the Soviet Union, and how they are now.
    I do not understand the current bias towards fighter (assault) aviation, it can only be explained by the fact that the Commander of the MA is from carrier-based fighters. It is necessary to develop anti-submarine aviation, revive missile-carrying, at least in the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet, people with new thinking should come to the management of the MA, and it is high time for all "mastodons" to retire.
    "Naval ranks" ... Original, but I don't think it will lead to any breakthrough. Although, our MO loves everything like this, you can give him this idea.
    In general, we must begin to engage in naval aviation very seriously, and it is time to understand that we need to develop basic aviation, since there will be no aircraft carriers in the country for a long time.
    https://zen.yandex.ru/morskaja_aviacija
    1. 0
      23 May 2019 16: 15
      Hello, Mikhail Vladimirovich. As for "a little", you got excited (just kidding). Thanks for your stories. A couple of years ago, without your permission, I stitched them and presented them to my father for his 80th birthday. He served in Mongohto from 1958 to 1972. Yes, and I managed to be born there. I hope you are not offended for my arbitrariness.
      If you are suddenly interested, I can send an electronic version with illustrations. Thanks again for the stories. Sincerely, Alexey Rukavitsyn, St. Petersburg.
  17. +5
    23 May 2019 09: 52
    Here we need to be more careful: Moran in 1987-1990 served not just in the field headquarters of CSG-6, he was admitted there to the service BGTWO, Battle Group Tactical Watch Officer, this is roughly speaking the watch operator of the field headquarters, supervising the work of watch officers (OOD, Officer On the Deck), watch operators BIP (TAO, Tactical Action Officer) and watch officers KP-2/3 (SWC, Ship's Weapons Coordinator) not only of Forrestal itself, but also of all escort ships, and during this service in this position he was frequently aboard cruisers and destroyers, in particular when they helped US SOBR intercept drug trafficking in the Caribbean. I still have to tell you that this is a sooooo rare Diss Tour for a naval pilot (usually natives of VP, coastal patrol aviation, on aircraft carriers they serve in one of the four V-divisions, most often in charge of V-1, ejection-finishing facilities - and almost all of these pilots and navigators-operators have to serve on aircraft carriers in such Diss Tours), and I strongly suspect that for BGTWO, you first need to hand over the aircraft carrier itself for admission to OODUW (watch officer on the move). So this new CNO is a surface boat in a higher degree than its predecessor Richardson, who is a submariner ;-) In addition, these VP squadrons in the US naval aviation itself are considered "NAVAIR Shoes", that is, "air surface boats" although, of course, they may have no ship experience at all (except for the Diss Tour), nevertheless, the system of relationships between a large crew of a multi-engine aircraft, in which there are both officers and enlisted personnel, requires a pilot or an aviation navigator who grows up in such a squadron to have a clear organization experience crew activity in the air and its well-coordinated work in any conditions of the situation, and as a rule without interaction with other aircraft ("Orions" often work in complete isolation from other fleet forces) - this is their strong difference from the officer experience of deck squadrons, where there are numerous crews no (VAW boards do not count, there are few of them). In addition, Moran is a pilot (pilot), and the VP-community there is considered NFO-dominated, that is, there are as many or more navigational operators than pilots, and the eternal "love" of any multi-engine aviation, pilot vs navigator, brings a competent commander. it does not matter whether he is a pilot or a navigator, to the unambiguous ability to understand the other side and know what the ease and difficulties of this other side are. In general, the life of the crews of the US Navy base aviation on deployment is most similar to the life of the crews of surface ships on a solo voyage, and there is no reason to doubt William Moran's commanding experience.
    Another question is how he will interact with Congress and the American military-industrial complex. Practice shows that the aviators in this chair (whether on deck or any other) and submariners are badly given politics - surface admirals who grew up in the jungle of relations between the crews of cruisers with regular bases, false promises and "the problems of the Indians that do not bother the sheriff do it best. ". However, let's see.
    And the last thing - you don’t have to pull Russian naval aviation here by the ears, it’s destroyed, everything, nothing will happen. And even if it was, it would be a different planet anyway: the continental European powers almost unanimously and at the beginning of the last century voted for independence, independence of aviation from everything else, wherever possible. Therefore, it’s serious to say that an officer who grew up on the Air Force’s ethics (that is, who has been educated at the Higher Military School owned by the Air Force and is deprived of the ability to occupy any distinct positions on ships and boats) is an officer, no matter what, a pilot, navigator or aircraft engineer, who is also in line of ranks of the Air Force, can do something literate at the general naval level in the Russian Federation - it is pointless and even dangerous, because it creates unnecessary illusions.
  18. +4
    23 May 2019 11: 39
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    But this is the only problem that pilots are separate, sailors are separate, and it must be solved.

    We need to think hard whether it is necessary. For if the country does not have and is not expected to have an aircraft carrier fleet - no, it is better to leave it as it is. Example: Germany. Everyone enters en masse at Myrvik, the naval school. And the future flyers spend their first year there in the same way as everyone else - six months in a field program, combined arms training, then sailing practice on the Gork Fock. That's all - then the pilots study at Luftwaffe institutions or abroad, returning to Muervik only for graduation. And although the uniform and line of ranks they really have the same for everyone, a naval pilot will never command frigates, and even serve on them, except for being on board as a helicopter pilot. And just like ours, this officer does not participate in any way in the life of the surface fleet, let alone the underwater one. Such a marginal group of aviation specialists in the fleet is a typical approach, and it is dangerous to put this group on the globe, because narrow specialists who are suddenly taken out into a caste separately adored by the public become intolerable.
    Another question is if there is and / or will be an aircraft carrier fleet. It is also not so simple here, more precisely, there are two approaches - British and American. The first is the majority of such fleets (including the Russian Navy, as long as there is at least some AB), the second is the USA itself, and more recently China. So, the first approach claims that an aircraft carrier is just such a funny cruiser, or something like that, with specific weapons. This means that just an experienced surface sailor can command such a ship, but in order to cope with the specifics of weapons, he needs a good deputy for this specifics - that is, a pilot in this case. And all will be well. Sometimes - quite rarely - this deputy will then take the seat of the aircraft carrier commander himself, but this is rather an exception, moreover, in England, for example, the position of the deputy aircraft carrier commander for aviation (the so-called Commander, Air - even more likely with our money "senior officer for aviation ") can be occupied by a flying marine, some major helicopter pilot who has flown all his life on" sea kings "or" merlin "in support of commando landings - he certainly cannot be the commander of the ship, but he copes with the leadership of the squadrons sitting on the ship: he the same aviator. The same was and is with us on all 1123 and 1143. And I think that when an aircraft carrier in the fleet is one, well, two, then this is normal practice: in any case, the personnel reserve of surface watermen is much larger, but naval aviators also remain a group of specialists with slightly more advanced deck skills. By the way, even in France, where it seems like there is even an atomic AB and several UDCs, the situation is about the same - the future pilots of deck "Raphael" only Primary pass in France, the main part of the training is Pensacola, in the same place, in the States, they have the first deck landings: France itself does not support or support anything that sets a specific ethics that makes a naval pilot consider himself a part of the fleet - well, that is, there are no educational institutions of this type, just as naval aviators do not have any career prospects outside the flight decks ... This is the ethics and pride of the chosen elite, some 100+ people for the entire national fleet, and this elitism itself does not allow itself to be eroded by any other deeds. Yes, in England, a professional deck pilot, after two years of serving as squadron commander, can get a two-year tour as a commander of a minesweeper or even a frigate, but this only happens if this officer gives staff hopes and his experience needs to be diversified before being introduced to staff service command of some kind of ship (it is important - it is the command, he will NOT be appointed either the chief officer or the commander of the warhead). In any case, his purely flying career is close to sunset, he is already seen at staff work, in addition, this is also a great rarity.
    The second way - the American one - sees the aircraft carrier as an appendage of naval aviation. Strictly speaking, if American flying homo sapiens had the opportunity to see it not as a warship, but something else, it would immediately become a trend. And alas - the aircraft carrier basically resembles a surface combat ship, but in any case, it is not considered part of the surface fleet there. The number of officers of the main surface VUS on the American aircraft carrier (1110, SWO) is about 17% - mainly in the reactor and electromechanical warhead. All others are 1310, Naval Aviator (pilot), or 1320, Naval Flight Officer (navigator). Yes, the commander, chief officer and all other DHs, including both navigators of the ship (NAV and ANAV) and most of the officers of watch (OOD). It is the pilots and air navigators who are on the so-called. Disassociated Tours (that is, "dissociated" from their squadron precisely in order to staff the ship - not flying - positions of aircraft carriers), and rule the entire life of these hefty ships, sometimes straining the "real" surface sailors on cruisers and escort destroyers with their amusing understanding of maritime practice and control of ship maneuvers. And there is an opinion that American aircraft carriers do not burn and do not sink every day, being led by professional aviators, only because there is a permanent corps of professional petty officers (Chief Petty Officers), each of whom has served on the aircraft carrier for 10-15 years, and who are mainly they manage to carry their tails after the flying officers and ensure the relative safety of the service and navigation of these large ships.
    It is difficult to say how justified this approach is, but if it is justified, it is only for the aircraft carrier fleet of 10+ such ships - when there are a lot of aviators (not only deck-based) in the fleet and they need to discover some career opportunities outside of the purely aviation ones.
    Conclusion: to merge in love (general form, ideology, ethics, etc.) with naval pilots the rest of the national fleet is probably possible and necessary when these marine pilots are at least one third of the entire officer corps of this fleet (as in the United States). If they are obviously smaller and especially when the deck component is small and disappearing (as in the Russian Federation), you don’t need to merge anywhere - let these people remain narrow specialists in their business with careers that are entirely within the framework of this business. Well, like naval doctors or demolition mines, for example. And the point is not even in the differences in ranks and uniforms, but in the fact that their narrow professionalism is better not to be washed away by tasks and ethics that are immanently alien to them. Therefore, I repeat, there is no need to drag Russian naval aviation anywhere. Which, moreover, is almost gone.
    Perhaps its revival is a variant of unification by type, as was done in England and Holland quite recently. In these countries, all helicopter forces have been consolidated into something like a "helicopter air force" - all the helicopter aircraft have surrendered their helicopter aviation with equipment and personnel under a single command, not related to any of the traditional types of aircraft, but centered around helicopter aircraft as such: and fire support helicopters with army crews, and Air Force transport helicopters, and anti-submarine aircraft of the Navy now live and work together, and the top command positions there in rotation are occupied by either the army brigadier, the Air Force captain group, or the naval commander - but they are all helicopter pilots, so or otherwise. In such an organization, naval aviation can not only survive, but flourish, at least in something. This is at least some option. The rest will die either from lack of money or from the inattention of the leadership of the types of the Armed Forces, for which (both for the Air Force and for the Navy) naval aviation is at least in some way, but alien, and given its small number, it is justifiably alien ...
    1. 0
      23 May 2019 16: 48
      It is necessary to think strongly whether it is necessary. For if there is no carrier fleet in the country and it is not foreseen, no, it is better to leave it as it is.


      No, not better. Regardless of the carrier fleet, we have four fleets and a flotilla on several theaters of independent use, in none of which we can achieve superiority either in surface forces or in submarines.

      Accordingly, the presence of maneuverable power capable of waging war at sea, specially equipped and trained for this (the pilot also has 24 hours in the day, if he is trained on surface targets, he will be able to do it for the rest) strengthening fleets in our theaters is critical. And it is critically important that this maneuverable force be recognized as a full-fledged component of our naval power, so that a flight that can send dozens of such ships to the bottom would not be cut in order to preserve an already outdated and low-value ship in service.

      Leaving everything in the Air Force is not an option, from them then during the war the aircraft will not be interrogated, and the direction of combat training requires a specific one.

      For antisubmarine aviation, all this is no less true.
      1. +1
        24 May 2019 10: 12
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Accordingly, the presence of a maneuvering force capable of waging war at sea, specially equipped and trained for this (the pilot also has 24 hours for days, if he is trained to surface targets, he will be able to deal with them, for the rest there will not be enough time) Strengthening the fleets on our theater is critical.

        Well, if you were only talking about "naval war", on a tactical level, it would be just a tactical mistake, unpleasant but excusable. But you are talking about inter-theater maneuvers by this force, and this is already an operational mistake, and even an operational-strategic mistake, if we are talking about the fleet, i.e. about naval aviation. Do you understand what this is about? I understood you this way: a maneuverable force is an expeditionary force of naval aviation, which includes heterogeneous (mixed) formations of the level of an air regiment with its own maneuverable rear, capable of changing the theater of operations in hours and strengthening the forces there in a threatening direction, right? Something like the German Geisler / Harlinghausen X corps of early 1941 in terms of naval orientation at the modern Joint Expeditionary Air Wing doctrinal base that is played in Europe? But the fact of the matter is that this is the Air Force, not the Navy. Moreover, I am sure that this should be the Air Force - only they have the possibility of a quick inter-theater maneuver (for the case of the Russian Federation), not even in the sense of the airfield infrastructure, but rather in the sense of being instantly included in the situation lighting system, because they carry AWACS platforms with them. , for example, this corps should not, and only the Air Force has such a platform (A-50), again, both tactical and operational airtanking is also possible only by the Air Force (and not only by the Russian Federation).
        Another question, if you are talking about AUG - well, that is, if you have a live AUG, it can be included in these mob-plans of inter-theater maneuvers. And this is already a strategic mistake of the maximum degree of criticality, and here is why: the deployment time is an order of magnitude longer than the development time of crises. Let's do it this way - the extreme inter-theater maneuver by aircraft carrier forces in general is the British operation "Corporation" in 1982, the liberation of the Falklands. We will not include any American storms and freedoms against Afghanistan and Iraq - Russia has never possessed such capabilities of accumulating aircraft carrier forces, and will not. So the British experience with two half-dead aircraft carriers in 1982 is most relevant. So ask yourself a question: did the British manage to react with their TF317 to Galtieri's actions BEFORE the Argentine Armed Forces reached their operational goals of strikes and landings? Of course, the answer is no. And thus, "Korporate" turned into an operational-strategic operation to liberate territories, and not to oppose their seizure. Could the British have managed to repel the landings themselves? Yes, if they kept AUG there, in the South Atlantic, permanently. No - in any other case. Now let us ask ourselves the following question - does the Russian Federation have the likelihood of falling into similar situations so that in the place of a possible crisis there are no other (that is, not the AUG and not the fleet at all) forces and means to repel seizing, and not subsequent liberation of territories blocking economic and political effect? Of course not - if we talk about theaters in which the country conducts its military activities in peacetime. All territories of the state are within the radius of the Su-24 without refueling from permanent airfields.
        M.E. Morozov absolutely right when he says that the Douai doctrine has been realized only now - but it has been implemented. Political goals can be achieved without a ground operation, using only the Air Force. And to create the ethics of "floating air force", that is, carrier-based aircraft, it makes sense only for a state that is in the position of the modern United States. Russia does not need this in principle. Naval aviation from the times of the same Sokerin left not because the Union lay down, but because the technological situation with the use of guided weapons in all areas has radically changed, but this is a separate topic. The future of carrier-based aircraft - in all countries - is also under a big question: if it turns out that the DF-21D can do something, US supercarriers will find themselves in a difficult situation - it is necessary to restore the range of deck-based strike vehicles without refueling, and this is just a lot of money from behind the pronounced competition from the SLCM and attack UAVs, and in any case, the voice of Russia here is purely observant. Personally, I believe that the future of the naval aviation of the Russian Federation is purely coastal anti-submarine, more precisely, maritime surveillance, and new machines should come to replace the modernized Il-38. And the future of Russian carrier-based aviation is purely helicopter, and the presence of UDCs in the fleets (and not as stupid as, fortunately, the Mistrals that did not get into the fleet) is a much more critical issue than the maintenance of Kuznetsov's combat readiness fabulous in terms of dough or hypothetical construction of new AV. And it's not only and not so much about money, it's about the real strategic objectives of the state. The ability to throw the expeditionary force anywhere "where there is enough water for a ship to pass" is a task for the UDC, not an aircraft carrier, and one should not underestimate the capabilities of deck helicopters. The ability to throw an expeditionary wing with anti-ship capabilities anywhere within the traditional theater of operations is the task of the country's air force, not its fleet - if this country is called the Russian Federation and is trying to live its own life in the current 21st century.
        I, as a former officer of the Russian Navy, do not see any other alignments - but I really want to see them. But maybe you should not look for a black cat in a dark room, knowing for sure that she is not there?
        1. 0
          28 May 2019 12: 27
          Moreover, I am sure that this should be the Air Force - only they have the possibility of fast inter-theater maneuver (for the case of the Russian Federation), not even in the sense of the airfield infrastructure, but rather in the sense of instant inclusion in the situation lighting system, for carrying with them the AEW platform For example, this corps should not, and such a platform (A-50) is only available to the Air Force, again, both tactical and operational airtanking is also possible only by the Air Force (and not only the Russian Federation).


          Considering the air superiority the enemy will have in a hypothetical "big" war, your approach will naturally end up with all the Air Force planes being drawn into battles, and hello, fleet!
          That's all. It was not for nothing that the USSR Navy had naval missile-carrying regiments, and there were Air Force bomber regiments, which were trained for the same anti-aircraft missions. This was not stupidity, but the result of understanding that the fleet needs its own "fire brigade". AWACS aircraft and tankers could well provide the Air Force, if only because during the defense of the country the fleets will fight as part of interspecific groupings in the theater of operations, and the command of these groups will have both the Air Force aviation under the control of both tankers and AWACS (if they are given them) ...
          Accordingly, naval aviation provides an emergency reaction and the defeat of the enemy's advanced forces, if it is obvious that it is not enough, then the Air Force is also being drawn in, which will have to spend time not only on the transfer of aircraft, but also on withdrawing them from battles to other theaters or TVD sites. And this is a DELAY with a blow, with all the consequences.

          However, this is really a very difficult question, not sure that it can be revealed in the comments.
          I described my vision of what should be the attack aviation of the Navy right here -
          https://topwar.ru/139900-o-neobhodimosti-vossozdaniya-morskoy-raketonosnoy-aviacii.html
          But that article also does not pretend to disclose the topic.
    2. 0
      23 May 2019 17: 59
      Quote: maxez
      And there is an opinion that the American aircraft carriers do not burn and drown every day, being led by professional aviators, only because there is a permanent corps of professional foremen (Chief Petty Officers), each of whom has been serving on the aircraft carrier for 10-15 years, and which are mainly manage to bring their tails behind the flying officers and ensure the relative safety of the service and navigation of these large ships.

      Бггг ... As for the professional foremen, I immediately remembered how the foreman on SODAK in 1942 actually saved the ship, refusing to carry out the order from above to supply power from the last main switchboard left under power to a bunch of three other main switchboards, in whose consumer circuits there was a short circuit. smile

      These LCs had a rather original selection of fuses - in the case of a short circuit on a circuit powered from a main switchboard, it was not a circuit fuse with a short circuit that pulled out, but a fuse at the main switch input, cutting off the shield from the generators and leaving it and all consumers without power. And there was a standard device that allowed to power one main switchboard from another. As a result, when the main switchboard No. 4 was de-energized, it was powered from the main switchboard No. 3 (without eliminating the short circuit belay ) - and he turned off too. A bunch of two main switchgears was powered from the third - with a predictable result. And then playful little hands reached for the last main switchboard ...
  19. 0
    23 May 2019 14: 29
    The most striking example of the combat effectiveness of this kind of force is the Battle of the Atlantic. Few people think, but it was not the carrier-based aircraft that drove the German submarines into the depths, giving the convoys a high chance of reaching the target. These were patrol planes taking off from the coast, the converted Liberators and the amphibious Catalina.

    The base aircraft and the deck had slightly different niches.
    Basic patrolmen complicated the work of the submarine as a whole - at the exit from the base (the Sunderlands attacked the submarine already in the Bay of Biscay), at the transition, in the positional areas.
    And around the convoys of the "Doenitz boys" were driven by carrier-based aircraft from the AVE covering the KON. The Wildcat-Avenger pairs patrolled the EMNIP strip, 50 miles to the left and right of the KOH course and 150 miles along the course - detecting submarines, attacking them, driving them under water or directing ships to the discovered submarines.
    And with the increase in the number of AVEs, it became possible to form anti-submarine groups engaged in the search and attack of submarines independently, without reference to the KOH escort.
    1. +2
      23 May 2019 14: 53
      Quote: Alexey RA
      The base aircraft and the deck had slightly different niches.

      And by type of the Armed Forces, and national too. Patrol aircraft trying to cover the Atlantic Gap are mainly Coastal Command, RAF, British Air Force - US Navy VP Squadrons on Catalinas were much more in demand in the Pacific Ocean. Hunter-Killer Groups, each headed by AVE, is the US Navy, USA. The British did not bring their HKG to mind, preferring to drive their own and Lend-Lease AVEs as an escort of convoys until the end of the war.
      These are very different types of aircraft and very different countries. By the way, there is an opinion: instead of bombing the Reich, which is generally stupid and ineffective (in contrast to the American bombing of the same targets), the British would have to divert at least half of the Bomber Command squadrons to patrols in the Atlantic - the effectiveness of the "liberators" in influencing the final result war would have been significantly higher.
    2. 0
      23 May 2019 16: 27
      And around the convoys of the "Doenitz boys" were driven by carrier-based aircraft from the AVE covering the KON. The Wildcat-Avenger pairs patrolled the EMNIP strip, 50 miles to the left and right of the KOH course and 150 miles along the course - detecting submarines, attacking them, driving them under water or directing ships to the discovered submarines.


      And now imagine that no one forced the Dönitz boys outside this strip to drive on batteries. The point is that the base aviation did not even allow them to carry out a maneuver. Without it, they would simply form the curtains on the routes of movement of the convoys, before entering the working area of ​​carrier-based aircraft. And with her - no way.
  20. +2
    23 May 2019 15: 27
    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    But in fact, why can a trained carrier-decker not command an aircraft carrier !?

    The Americans have been doing this since 1920, the Chinese since 2014. These have recruited 30 people from the entire coastal naval aviation - all pilots, but different types - for a special course "aircraft carrier commander" at the naval academy. Not all of them will receive an aircraft carrier in command (they still have few aircraft carriers), and then someone will command the destroyers or UDC, someone will return to the coastal aviation headquarters, but this is already something. However, the current commander of the Liaoning, Rear Admiral Liu Zhe, as well as the first commander of this ship Zhang Zheng, are surface watermen. Surely the new one will already be a pilot. So it can, why can't it. The question is, who will handle the ship on a daily basis? You see, in the United States, aircraft carriers do not run aground in batches and do not ram the Statue of Liberty, mainly because there is someone to keep an eye on aviators in command (senior, etc.) positions - the SROs of the aircraft carrier fleet rarely change the ships they serve, and if they change, then it is also for an aircraft carrier. In general, an officer in a naval (including aircraft carrier) position in the US Navy is two years and that's it, he leaves this ship. He is not the master and never was. The owner there is Chief Petty Officer, a foreman who has served on this ship for many years, and it is he who knows how to make sure that "this thing safely launches aircraft from a sharp end and puts them on a blunt one." Believe me, the commander of an American aircraft carrier generally does not delve into what is happening under the flight deck at all. Admiral Holloway III, a former CNO in the 70s, wrote in his memoirs that once, while talking to the Coral Sea commander, a fighter pilot by profession, he asked him what kind of power plant was on his ship, and heard the answer - " Yes, I don't care, even if the screws are twisting the screws there, as long as I have a connection with CHENG (the commander of the BC-5 for our money), I don't care at all. " Would you entrust a multi-billion dollar ship to a whistle-born with such an attitude towards life? And the Americans do. Why? Because they know that if an experienced chief tells him: "No sir, we will not do that, sir, because it is very dangerous, sir," the aircraft carrier commander with a 99% probability will answer: "Ok chief, do as you see fit," even if before that he gave a direct order of the opposite meaning. When and if the Russian Navy condescends to such an understanding of military professionalism, entrusting technical expertise to warrant officers and foremen instead of officers, then even a pilot, even a miner, even a film director can command an aircraft carrier in this Navy. But until then - see the opinion of Captain 1st Rank V.N. Pykov (1938-2016), second commander of the aircraft carrier "Kiev": "On these ships, the commander must have a long experience of service of normal cruisers and the ability to easily change aviation personnel from his deputy in aviation to the last sailor of the BCH-6, sorting out people until until the smart ones come across. "
    1. 0
      23 May 2019 18: 10
      Quote: maxez
      In general, an officer in a naval (including aircraft carrier) position in the US Navy is two years and that's it, he leaves this ship. He is not the owner and never was. The owner there is Chief Petty Officer, a foreman who has served on this ship for many years, and it is he who knows how to make sure that "this thing safely launches aircraft from a sharp end and puts them on a blunt one."

      I immediately remembered "Yes, Mr. Minister" - Britain is governed by secretaries of ministers. smile
      Quote: maxez
      When and if the Russian Navy comes down to such an understanding of military professionalism, having commissioned technical expertise to midshipmen and foremen instead of officers, then at least a pilot, even a miner, or a movie director can command an aircraft carrier in this.

      There is a double-edged sword - in order to trust the chief so, you need to be completely confident in the professionalism of him and all his subordinates. Well, or at least in the fact that among them there is no Midshipman Saakhov ...
      The monster was caught at the moment when it, biting its tongue, lustfully unscrewed the safety valve of the high-pressure reducer - the VVD reducer; cautious, like in a minefield, it turned millimeter by millimeter, stopped, listened to the ear and turned again, carefully watching all this with its tiny, sharp human eyes. On the other side, four hundred kilograms kept him on guard.
  21. +1
    23 May 2019 16: 02
    But this is a call for us. The anti-submarine is in command when submarines are our main striking force. I dare to suggest that it will be the anti-submarine capabilities of the American fleet that will be strengthened.
    1. +1
      23 May 2019 16: 24
      There is nowhere to strengthen them, to be honest.
      1. 0
        24 May 2019 21: 50
        Well, not only to strengthen, improve tactics, work out new techniques, etc. The main thing is that it seems that they have decided to turn their face to their problem, called "Russian submarines".
        1. 0
          24 May 2019 22: 58
          They did not turn away from her.
  22. +1
    23 May 2019 16: 06
    What is not the admiral is the new Nelson. And our bear F. Ushakov beat them and the heirs will beat them.
  23. +1
    23 May 2019 16: 34
    A lot of words. Impression: I read my dissertation. Everything that the US has done so far can hardly be viewed as military operations: a deliberately weakened enemy, sanctions and political pressure, other "incidents" that will not work when a real war begins. And here the dog is buried. When the war begins, it turns out that all military dogmas were calculated on the experience of the previous war and are not suitable in the new conditions. The reason is trivial: former military men want to pass on their combat experience, which, over the years of teaching, is emasculated and only "hurray" remains. So, American generals and admirals may be good at local operations, but they will also cause defeat in a future war. Russia, it seems, got rid of the "dacha" generals, or forced them to go into the shadows. The protraction of hostilities in Syria, says, first of all, that it is necessary to qualitatively prepare both the Syrian and Russian military in a real war, and not in a personal dacha!
    1. 0
      23 May 2019 19: 07
      And here the dog is buried. When the war begins, it turns out that all military dogmas were calculated on the experience of the previous war and are not suitable in the new conditions. The reason is trivial: former military men want to pass on their combat experience, which, over the years of teaching, is emasculated and only "hurray" remains.


      This applies to absolutely all the military in the world, if that.
  24. 0
    23 May 2019 17: 06
    Thanks for the interesting article. have something to think about
  25. 0
    23 May 2019 22: 56
    PPC analytics))) So what is the use of our commanders-in-chief submariners? ...
    until our worship and foolishness pass, nichrome will not be of any use.
  26. 0
    24 May 2019 02: 27
    Thank you - a really good and deeply thought out (and even suffered) article.
    And it shook up many professionals (it doesn't matter if they were "for" or categorically "against"). People spoke competently, and the level of discussion was always at least at the level set by the article itself.
    Thank you, Alexander.
    1. 0
      24 May 2019 09: 59
      Please glad you liked it.
  27. +1
    24 May 2019 10: 35
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Бггг ... As for professional foremen, I immediately remembered how the foreman on the SODAK in 1942 actually saved the ship, refusing to follow the order from above to supply power from the last main switchboard left under power to a bunch of three other main switchboards, in the consumer circuits of which there was a short circuit

    Well, yes ... But on the Yorktown on June 4, 1942, there was no such person, and no one replaced the fuses on the main switchboard of the bow MO - as a result, it was not possible to start the power supply for pumping water from the flooded KO of the left side, and no one noticed this : there was voltage from the GDR in the ring line, but it did not hit the pump, and before leaving the ship, no one understood why. And here is an exceptionally amusing and funny question, which in every possible way emphasizes American toys in the organization of the ship: who should have noticed this? Studying the issue of the death of "Yorktown" and then of the same type of "Hornet", I laughed like a madman: the so-called BZZh were responsible for these ships. First Lieutenents, this is the DH of the so-called Deck Department, such a "superboat". In these positions, surface watermen served on aircraft carriers. And those who are engaged in it with us were not engaged in survivability - K-5, the commander of the EMBCH, the Chief Engineer with our money - also a surface sailor. They are not even subordinate to each other, this first lieutenant and K-5! They were supposed to interact as two Dept Heads, through the first mate. And the chief officer of the American aircraft carrier is the pilot, what does he understand in the power plant and in the fight for survivability? Moreover, in Hornet's case, the 1st Lieutenant was older than the K-5 in rank and age. As a result, in both cases, the mechanics fought for the survivability of technical equipment and nothing more, and Deck Dept did not receive the necessary ratings of electricity, air pressure and hydraulics from them to adequately launch their drainage and / or fire-fighting equipment: with absolutely serviceable Yorktown turbines never squeezed water out of the left boilers, and the Hornet, although it gave steam to the aft turbines from the bow boilers, did not find a vacuum in the condensers of these aft turbines (a side effect of a third torpedo hitting an already stationary ship - apparently with " keita "l-ta Yoshiaki Iriikina, well-known photograph). On the "Essex" CHENG was already engaged in survivability, here it is, experience. Both ships could have been saved if it were not for the crooked organization of the ship without overlapping the areas of responsibility of the warhead commanders - and this is a picture that is sooooo characteristic of American aircraft carriers, and in many respects is still. So far and if the chiefs cope with this - everything is ok. Should one of the experienced chiefs quit, die, or just be on vacation - that's it, a disaster of the scale of a nuclear war, in which the black of officer and admiral's stripes and stars are just dull decorations ...
    1. 0
      24 May 2019 22: 15
      I confirm! In times of warming relations, in a binge, their submariners asked us - if you remove all the sailors from your boat, how long will you drown?
      The question was incomprehensible. what does it mean after how much? We won’t drown at all .... and we will complete the tasks. The truth will have to be hesitated - one and two shifts to drag But drown? Rave.
      And they are laughing. We even say the exact time is known - two hours.
      The point is that they have a completely different system of service and it does not intersect with ours in any way. Impossible to compare. Their officers are not specialists but administrators. They wouldn’t even let us manage their tugboat and commander, because the functionality is completely different!
  28. 0
    24 May 2019 12: 06
    We would like these, not stools, etc.
  29. +1
    24 May 2019 16: 08
    Quote: kepmor
    By the way, among the caps of aircraft carriers there are many pilots of carrier-based aviation ... for them, this is the norm ...

    ALL. Well, that is, the commander of an aircraft carrier in the USA (position code, Billet Code - 9222) is a pilot (Naval Aviator, qualification code 1310/1315) or a navigator-operator (Naval Flight Officer, qualification code 1320/1325), always. But far from always this commander is a tailhook, it can be a colleague of a subject, a coastal pilot / navigator of naval aviation, and maybe a helicopter pilot. And far from always the aircraft carrier commander flies from the aircraft carrier - by and large, only if he wants it and if his type is based on the board (for which he is allowed to fly), because he has to take the plane / helicopter into the squadron, and there his schedules flights, and an air wing is usually reluctant to share flight hours. As a rule, he wants to fly so that the flight allowance for salary is maintained.
    The officers who fall into the personnel reserve of the command of aircraft carriers, so this is always - without exception - aviators. But before being appointed to the post of commander and / or start-up of an aircraft carrier, such an officer is given a year to command the so-called deep draft - a tanker, an integrated supply vessel, an ADS headquarters ship, and such auxiliary large pans to give experience in managing such a displacement hull and crew.
  30. 0
    26 May 2019 17: 36
    An interesting article, admiral well done, track record - yes, I didn’t forget how to shoot. I wonder why almost all the rifle tactical and practical associations and federations in the world are created by flyers, military doctors and other non-rifle officers?
  31. 0
    27 May 2019 09: 58
    Quote: Alexey RA
    There’s a double-edged sword - in order to trust the chief so, you need to be completely confident in the professionalism of him and all his subordinates



    There is a cultural problem: the first Russian military pros, archers, were nevertheless the embryos of the estate with all the signs of nobles, nobles. And the rest of the Slavs essentially had the same thing, even among the Poles.
    In the United States, the initial unconstitutional laws divided officer ranks into permanent and temporary (only during the war), and the captain, the head of the border garrison, was the ultimate permanent. Major and above are already only temporary ranks, only for the time of mobilization, incl. all generals. That is, the pros in the US Army from the very beginning are precisely the sergeant and junior officers who, purely centurion, due to the lack of military schools, also left the sergeants. That is, satm the ethics of the military pro is based on sergeant, not officer service. The United States were born like that, and this is the 18th century, Peter 1 with his already mobilized army already managed to pile on the Swedes and even died ...
    We must take into account these differences - in the States for centuries a sergeant / foreman has been working with equipment and weapons every day. Not an officer. In the 406-mm turret of the Iowa-class main ship, there are 47 crew, 4 of them are chiefs, but only one officer in the regular rank of Lt.Jg - with our money as a starley. How many officers were there in the 152-mm tower of the KR pr. 68bis? Five? Why the heck?
  32. +1
    3 June 2019 11: 23
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    It was not for nothing that the USSR Navy had naval missile-carrying regiments, and there were Air Force bomber regiments, which were trained for the same anti-aircraft missions. This was not stupidity, but the result of understanding that the fleet needs its own "fire brigade".

    I apologize for a long story. Here is my article in NWCR, written specifically for this edition a few years ago, just on the subject. Read at your leisure, maybe you will find answers to your questions regarding the dichotomy "naval aviation vs aviation in general". Please: https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1247&context=nwc-review
  33. 0
    11 November 2019 17: 54
    Everyone, Moran was removed, you know about this? For "using a personal (personal) email address in discussing" national security issues. "We tried to sew off-duty relationships and even sexual harassment, but did not prove it. So - you need to use Gmail more carefully, even if you are a super duper admiral in the USA

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