Large-caliber anecdote, or samurai-style headache

55
In the middle of the 30 of the last century, Understanding came to Japan. Understanding the need to increase the caliber of small arms. And it concerned everything, and the means of air defense and in the first place.





Since Japan was a country where there were certain problems with the military industry, and with the design school and in general trouble, the Japanese, without further ado, went down the beaten path of those who could not develop any weapon.

That is, direct or indirect copying.

Frenchman


The imperial army of Japan became the pioneer on this way and got the first large-caliber machine gun. It was used both on land and at sea, and was a copy of the French “Hotchiss” model 1930, caliber 13,2 mm.

It was called the “Anti-aircraft Type 93”, and on this in the army and on navy in terms of air defense came peace and balance.

But there were still the Air Force. Given that in Japan between aviation land and navy was viewed, speaking culturally, antagonism, and uncultured - stupid and causeless hatred with contempt, it is clear that the "Type 93" was not even considered as the starting point for an aircraft machine gun. Each of the two waders wanted to look exclusively at its swamp.

The start of the war with China, despite the weakness of the Chinese army, showed the Japanese military frank weakness of rifle caliber machine guns. It was in China that the Japanese pilots received the first lessons of American-made large-caliber machine guns. The Curtiss Hawk P-36 were not modern aircraft, but their 12,7-mm Browns made the Japanese think.

American italian


The ground pilots were the first to think, since it was they who first began to rake away from their Chinese colleagues. And they went to the allies along the axis "Berlin-Rome-Tokyo", that is, to the Germans. Which literally recently began to produce a new machine gun MG-131.

The Germans of the Japanese allies, to put it mildly, broke off. Say, a new machine gun, all so secret, and you are fighting with the USSR, and even unsuccessfully (Khalkhin Goal). You guys are good, but we will not give you a machine gun, in short.

The meaning of such a bummer, of course, was. The strategic materials flowed from the Soviet Union to the Germans, and pragmatic Europeans didn’t want to spoil such warm relations because of some kind of machine gun there. Because the Japanese were left without a license, and the Germans with materials from the USSR.

It is clear that the Japanese military was not at all satisfied with this situation, and they began to look at who has what to do in the plan.

Italians immediately got into the sight, who, with the development, also had more or less everything and also seemed to be allies.

When the technical department of the headquarters of the Japanese Imperial Aviation voiced their demands, the designers were probably startled. Because the decision was more than strange on the one hand, but logical on the other.

The famous Japanese designer of small arms, Kijiro Nambu, did not bother at all and simply copied the American Browning machine gun of the 1921 model of the year. The machine gun, as it were, was far from new; it came into the hands of Namba from China, where there were a sufficient number of them. So the showdown for copyright could not wait.

But they decided to put the cartridge is not native. The cartridge decided to use Italian, 12,7x81 SR from Brad. Apparently, the weaker Italian cartridge, but having in the line of explosive ammunition, to some extent had to replace a cannon shell.

A rather peculiar decision, to be honest. The Italian chuck was inferior in power to both the American .50 BMG 12,7 × 99 mm and the French 13,2х99 mm. But that's how the cards lay in samurai hands and heads.

As a result, the second Japanese large-caliber machine gun turned out to be a copy of the American under the Italian cartridge.

In general, the machine gun was very good, affected by the potential inherent in the product by the inventor. Lightweight, compact, reliable and rapid-fire, the machine gun was adopted by the Imperial Army Aviation as the No-103 or Type 1 in the fall of the year 1941.

There were drawbacks, like everything invented by Browning on earth, he hardly endured synchronization, losing much the rate of fire (up to 50%). On individual modes of operation of the Ki-43 fighter motor (the first to receive the new No-103 machine gun), the rate of fire dropped from the declared 900 shots per minute to the frankly pitiful 400. True, over time, the pilots got used to it and tried to fight on revolutions that did not reduce the rate of fire.

It is clear that this was not always possible, but all the same, it became clear that two large-caliber machine guns and two rifle caliber are still two huge differences.

But in general, if we add to this a weak Italian cartridge, it came out very mediocre.

And what about marine colleagues?

And sea pilots had everything in accordance with the canons of the genre! That is, it was very bad for the logic of the European.

German


The offensive part of the A6M naval fighters (2 20-mm guns and 2-7,7-mm machine guns) of the military absolutely suited the military, which could not be said of the defensive. The war in China showed that the old American fighters with large-caliber "Browning" normally had time to pick open any Japanese bomber or torpedo bomber before he could at least slightly scratch the enemy.

In the Japanese naval deck dive bombers and torpedo bombers, the only turret machine gun, the 92 Type, was generally a weapon of psychological influence.

And the command of naval pilots also set out to strengthen the defense of their aircraft. Bomb carriers are required to reach the target and unload there, regardless of whether they have fighter cover or not. Well, at least a minimum.

And in 1941, the Japanese naval command turned out to be ... right, in Germany! Where, like their land colleagues two years earlier, they asked for MG-131!

The most interesting thing is that the Germans ... agreed! Shel 1941 year, priorities were set, the attack on the USSR agreed, so that it was possible to help an ally.

Moreover, together with the license for MG-131, the Germans generously sold the 13x64B cartridge factory!

MG-131 received the designation "Type 2", was adopted in 1942 year. But here it was not without oddities.

While the ancestor of the “Type 2” successfully stood under the hood of the “Messerschmitt” and “Focke-Wulf”, its licensed copy was used exclusively as a turret machine gun!

The approach is more than funny: the German machine gun was equipped with an electric descent system, which the Japanese naval experts considered completely unacceptable. Perhaps, they say, in the harsh maritime climate, where salt and water are everywhere, close with all the consequences.

The logic, of course, is strange, but having the right to life.

In general, the machine gun never gave reason to doubt its reliability, but nevertheless, the entire war "Type 2" was produced only in the turret version.

However, the further the war went on, the more obvious it became that the Japanese fighter in naval aviation urgently needed both new cannons and new machine guns. The ancient "Lewis" 7,7-mm caliber was no longer a cake, more precisely, not tofu.

Yes, there was an attempt to re-equip the Zero with two more guns, like the Focke-Wulf 190, but alas, the extremely lightweight thin wing of the Japanese fighter did not pull two guns. Moreover, it did not work to place the rather massive guns of the “Type 99” under the hood.

In general, it was urgently necessary to do something, since well-booked and survivable American fighters clearly outpaced Zero in all fights. And by the beginning of 1943, the Japanese naval command realized that something had to change. Or machine guns and cannons, or they will be replaced already.

The problem was that at the disposal of the Japanese designers was no longer the most important thing - time. This was especially shown by the air battles near the Solomon Islands, when the superiority of the Americans was simply complete, and the Japanese fleet began to lose the initiative, losing the sky.

So the last participant of our show, the 3 Type machine gun, appeared.

American French


Since the Japanese had neither time nor potential developments, it was decided that it was amazing in its simplicity: to copy the very machine gun that the Americans beat their opponents. That is, the "Browning" AN-M2.

Quite a large number of these machine guns were seized by Japanese troops during the occupation of the Philippines, so there was something to work on.

And here the Japanese designers can be said to have shown prudence by copying an American machine gun for a cartridge that was already in production. They became the French ammunition from the "Hotchkiss", 13,2x99 mm.

The logic of this act is completely incomprehensible, because it turned out more than strange. TWO different machine guns under TWO different cartridges in the same Navy Air Force.

But the French patron was more powerful than the German one, the bullet was heavier, which means it was almost twice as stable, and the French patron was still produced and was in service. True, air defense, but not the essence.

It is difficult to understand why it was impossible to bring to mind the "Type 2", he is MG-131, it is clear that the bullet was lighter than the French, but the machine gun itself was simply luxurious, as proved by the use of both the Eastern and Western fronts. And most importantly, it is unlikely that the revision of the “Type 2” to the wing and synchronous versions would take more time than the development of a new machine gun from an American under the French cartridge.

Obviously, the "Type 96", which was removed from service, left behind a warehouse full of ammunition. Which can and should have been used.

So what is the result of this crazy show?

Anti-aircraft gun "Type 96" ("Hotchkiss") under the French cartridge 13,2x99 mm.

Wing, synchronous, turret machine gun "Type 1" / But-103 ("Browning") under the Italian cartridge 12,7x81 SR.

Marine gun turret "Type 2" ("Rheinmetall") under the German cartridge 13х64В.

Machine gun synchronous sea "Type 3" ("Browning") under the French cartridge 13,2x99 mm.

Total we get FOUR large-caliber machine guns for THREE different and non-interchangeable (of course) cartridge.

It is clear that the logistics of the Japanese army and navy just went crazy, trying to provide all the parts and bases with the proper amount of appropriate ammunition.

It came to stupidity: French cartridges for fighter machine guns could arrive, but there could be no German cartridges for bombers or torpedo bombers. Or there have been cases of elementary replacement of one with another. That in any case did not affect properly the combat capability of Japanese aviation and air defense.

However, the result of the war is known to us, surprisingly another: one of the few cases in which the army and navy tried their best to make their lives difficult.

It is difficult to understand the logic of a samurai sometimes ...

Materials used:
Yevgeny Aranov. Japan's 2 World War I air rifle armament.
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  1. 0
    23 May 2019 18: 42
    It is difficult to understand the logic of a samurai sometimes ...


    I can’t say that the samurai had any special logic, and even after the Meiji restoration in the 1870s, there were no more samurai.

    50 years after the return of power in the country from the shogun to the emperor, the art of handling the sword was so degraded that it was necessary to collect several remaining masters from all over the country to train officers and sergeants in sword and bayonet fighting.

    Such a hodgepodge was used in the Toyama military school and became known as Toyama-ryu iai-jitsu. Without any frills, grabbing a sword while sitting on his knees. Only standing and ten of the simplest and most effective attacks, adapted to modern (1930s) conditions.

    And, by the way, about machine guns ... in Japan, at the beginning of the war with the USA, a propaganda film was released, as a Japanese officer cuts the barrel of an American machine gun with a sword.
    1. Alf
      +7
      23 May 2019 20: 43
      Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
      as a Japanese officer cuts the barrel of an American machine gun with his sword.

      Whether the oak is horseradish, or the oak horseradish ..
      1. +1
        23 May 2019 21: 00
        Destroyers of legends tried to repeat and not ShmAgLi. They made a machine that tried to chop with a Chinese replica of a Japanese sword, like an ax, ignoring the fact that the Japanese sword does not chop, but cuts.

        They didn’t succeed, what only they did. Even the trunk was red-hot.
    2. +1
      24 May 2019 14: 15
      Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
      I can’t say that the samurai had any special logic, and even after the Meiji restoration in the 1870s, the samurai

      there were no samurai, but the spirit and traditions of bushido, thanks to several high-profile last feats, nevertheless decided to keep
      as they maintained absolute contempt for the fate of the private soldier - Sakai and other heroes of that war write bitterly about this - the officers' violence against the soldiers was such that suicides were in the order of things.
  2. +3
    23 May 2019 18: 51
    No, well, if you drink warm vodka, then the brains will not go there yet. But seriously, the fleet had a lot more Busy. As a more educated class. Here are the naval descendants of the samurai and performed.
    1. +7
      23 May 2019 19: 46
      Quote: Dmitriy Zadorozhniy
      No, well, if you drink warm vodka, then the brains will not go there yet.

      And I think, why do some advocate for the 57-mm caliber, and with two mutually interchangeable types of ammunition: for high-ballistic guns and for essentially automatic grenade launchers.
      1. +9
        23 May 2019 20: 02
        Quote: Spade
        And I think, why do some advocate for the 57-mm caliber, and with two mutually interchangeable types of ammunition: for high-ballistic guns and for essentially automatic grenade launchers.

        Pffff ... you still remember - how many non-interchangeable ammunition we have for 23-mm and 30-mm guns.
        Or about the ShVAK-12,7 chambered for a recreation center cartridge, but with a sleeve with a hem (12,7 × 108R) - just because the design bureau and industry were afraid to change the working automation circuit (cheaper to put a new cartridge in a series, yes ...).
        Moreover, the increase in caliber does not save from a headache. Some in the 76 mm caliber had three types of ammunition. And their opponents produced unique ammunition in the caliber of 75 mm. smile
        1. 0
          24 May 2019 10: 44
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Pffff ... you still remember - how many non-interchangeable ammunition we have for 23-mm and 30-mm guns.


          It is also true if we recall the same epic of 20 mm ammunition for defective ShVAK, which pulled into production a very weak 20x99R with a flange and, for example, UB-20 for an experimental ammunition of 20 x 110, developed in 1937, which was planned for a number of domestic aviation and anti-aircraft systems developed in the prewar years. (128-gram shell had almost one and a half times more powerful energy than the serial ShVAK-ovsky 20x99R)

          B-20
          1. +2
            24 May 2019 11: 14
            Quote: DimerVladimer
            It is also true if you recall the same epic of 20 mm of ammunition for the defective ShVAK, which pulled into production a completely weak 20x99R with a rim

            ... for exactly the same reason that the 12,7 × 108R appeared - they were afraid to change something in the already developed automation design and the production process. Bearing in mind the epic with the 20-mm "Rheinmetall", the fears were quite justified - the plant in the series could not pull the cannon of the new automatic design. As a result, it was necessary to inscribe a 20-mm cartridge in the length of a 12,7-mm cartridge, sacrificing ballistics to such an extent that the use of ShVAK-20 in air defense was considered impossible due to the too rapid drop in the projectile speed.
    2. -4
      23 May 2019 20: 03
      Just have a BIT ... drinks , GONOR noble (a descendant of Busi wassat ) does not bring to good !!! Yes
  3. -6
    23 May 2019 19: 57
    Like a samurai sad do not sit down (arm yourself) - but in musicians (military) you are NOT fit ... Yes
    1. 0
      23 May 2019 23: 47
      Cons put the samurai? negative Avenging Khalkhin Gol or Hassan? am The Kwantung army against the Red Army lasted from August 9, 1945 to August 20, 1945 - Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Saipan lasted longer ... Now the samurai open their mouths to the Kuril Islands - LESSON LIKE ANYTHING? angry
      1. +1
        24 May 2019 05: 01
        The Kwantung army was backward in every sense. They did not have adequate modern technology, the combat efficiency is lower than the plinth, and the most non-combat-ready parts are not. Typical occupation army. After the battles with the Germans, distributing the bream to the Japanese of the Red Army was like two fingers about .....
        1. +5
          24 May 2019 11: 35
          Your stereotype of the Kwantung army is incorrect.
          The war with Japan in August 45 was not an easy walk for our army ...
          There were casualties, ambushes, traps, there were fanatical suicide bombers wrapped in explosives, surrendering and exploding when trying to search them ... There were pockets of fierce resistance, which were taken only by "Stalin's sledgehammers" ...
          My grandfather went to the 38th parallel and had an award pistol for taking just such a suicide bomber ... He told me. That war was not for us "like two fingers ..."
          Although the operation itself was planned and carried out exemplary.
          Soviet Far Eastern Blitzkrieg!
  4. Alf
    +5
    23 May 2019 20: 47
    And why be surprised if the fleet designed tanks, and the army submarines?
    But to the utter absurdity the war of the departments was brought by the Japanese inclined to maximalism. The imperial army and navy were at war no worse than the feudal houses of Tyra and Minamoto, it came to the mutual assassination and murder of government officials supporting the “enemies”. Even Admiral Yamamoto preferred to live aboard ships not so much out of love for the sea, but out of compelling fears for his life. Both "factions" tried to be unlike each other in everything and substituted the "enemy" before the imperial leadership at the slightest opportunity. And that, in turn, led a difficult diplomatic game with the generals and admirals, and even sought to sign official cooperation agreements. I recall between my own army and my own fleet.
  5. Alf
    +6
    23 May 2019 20: 49
    The dismantling of the fleet and the army of a heavy burden fell on the already not the most powerful economy of the island empire. Since the departments could not stand to cooperate with each other, they began to create duplicate structures and weapons systems. The Japanese had parallel “branches” of fighters and bombers, not only and not so much because of different requirements for naval and land aviation, but because of the reluctance of departments to have at least something in common. Machines were often very similar: Soviet specialists had long considered the Ki-27 army fighter and the Navy A5M modifications of one aircraft, despite the fact that these machines were developed independently, doubling the work of scarce aircraft designers and engineers. The fleet ordered tanks and formed brigades of marines, not wanting to endure “these crazy monkeys” on board ships and at their bases, the army created its own “marines” for landing in China, built ships from submarines to light aircraft carriers so as not to mess with “ traitors to the Yamato spirit ”... Insanity grew stronger, tanuki sang.

    Is it worth wondering the second of September the 45th?
    1. +3
      23 May 2019 22: 55
      You forgot about June 22, 1940! June 22 in Compiegne Forest, in the same car in which the armistice of 1918 was signed, at the meeting of Hitler and General Juntziger, an act of surrender was signed!
      But the French Ground Forces had a similar Japanese situation with weapons!
      Somewhat different scales, but similar!
      However, at the turn of the 1930s, life forced the French military to engage in motorization of the army. The largest French companies, in turn, were engaged in the creation of new models of armored vehicles. A feature of this process in France was the presence of two combat arms of the ground forces: infantry and cavalry. They could independently order the industry military equipment for their own needs and create an organizational and staffing structure of various compounds. Thus, the number of weapons models created by various firms often doubled, which led to the excessive diversity of the tank fleet.

      It turns out that the Japanese were not alone in such "interdepartmental squabbles"!
      Besides, one should not forget about the American ILC. During the battles in the Pacific Ocean, armored formations of the ILC were armed with Shermans with diesel engines. And the units that are part of the ground forces - "Shermans" with gasoline engines!
      But naturally Japanese and Italian "collisions" in terms of armaments and logistics of supplying troops with ammunition - OUT OF COMPETITION!
      1. +2
        24 May 2019 05: 30
        During the battles in the Pacific Ocean, armored formations of the ILC were armed with Shermans with diesel engines. And the units that are part of the ground forces - "Shermans" with gasoline engines!

        And yet it was reasonable!
        1. +1
          24 May 2019 12: 06
          There was rationality in this! The landing gear of the KMP had diesel engines!
      2. +1
        24 May 2019 10: 16
        Quote: hohol95
        During the battles in the Pacific Ocean, armored formations of the ILC were armed with Shermans with diesel engines. And the units that are part of the ground forces - "Shermans" with gasoline engines!

        The Marines' choice of a tank with a diesel engine was based on the fact that diesel fuel can always be found in the fleet - on the same landing boats.
        1. 0
          24 May 2019 12: 04
          Exactly!
  6. +6
    23 May 2019 23: 15
    Somehow the authors with illustrations did not work out.

    Installation of synchronized machine guns Ho-103 on the Ki-61 Hien fighter.
  7. -1
    23 May 2019 23: 47
    They have the "Zero" right ... steering wheels, I suppose, did.
  8. -1
    24 May 2019 00: 17
    However, the result of the war is known to us, surprisingly another: one of the few cases in which the army and navy tried their best to make their lives difficult.


    The Germans were not much better, during the whole war the fleet never received its own aircraft and this negatively affected all the operations of the Kriegsmarine.
    1. +5
      24 May 2019 08: 23
      However, the effectiveness of the Luftwaffe units operating in the interests of the fleet and / or for naval purposes was very high. We never dreamed of such, despite the existing Naval Aviation.
      So, the question is not unique.
    2. +2
      24 May 2019 10: 14
      Quote: Sea Cat
      The Germans were not much better, during the whole war the fleet never received its own aircraft and this negatively affected all the operations of the Kriegsmarine.


      What did not stop the Germans from drowning the northern convoys, dealing with the blocked Baltic fleet, we can’t mention the Black Sea at all - after the death of the leader of Kharkov, the destroyers "Merciless" and "Capable" on October 3, 1943 - the raiding operations of large ships were generally prohibited (although here completely the fault of the incompetent command of the Black Sea Fleet and the commander of the detachment GP Negoda).
    3. +4
      24 May 2019 10: 20
      Quote: Sea Cat
      The Germans were not much better, during the whole war the fleet never received its own aircraft and this negatively affected all the operations of the Kriegsmarine.

      So the kriegsmarine at the beginning of the war gave some aviation. And then they took it away - for the naval simply did not know how to use it. Demanding the threat of arrest of a departure for reconnaissance from an airfield closed by meteo (fog) - this was the norm for the naval.
      If the fleet really needed it, then it worked perfectly well with backlashes - Operation Cerberus is an example of this.
      1. 0
        24 May 2019 12: 25
        That's right, but, you must admit, the Navy needs its own aviation, which, in general, was proved during the whole war in various theaters. And now there is no "mess" that was in its time in Germany. Although there are no fleets either, I mean surface ones, and in comparison with World War II, only the staff, unfortunately.
    4. mvg
      +1
      24 May 2019 13: 00
      got my own aviation

      However, things were sunk by Battleship, Cruiser, Leader of destroyers, the devil knows how much in detail .. and how many convoys ... Could you suggest the success of Soviet naval aviation? Besides the mythical damage to Tirpitz?
      1. 0
        24 May 2019 13: 05
        Niobe ... by mistake
        1. mvg
          +1
          24 May 2019 23: 16
          See the commentary on "cruiser" Niobe below. ↓
          1. 0
            25 May 2019 09: 38
            I am familiar with the history of the "sinking" of the future monitor Vyborg
      2. +1
        24 May 2019 22: 56
        On March 9, 1944, 17 Il-2s from the 7th Guards Assault Aviation Regiment flew for bombing assaults on enemy ships in the Kund area. They were covered by 25 La-5 fighters. As a result of their attacks on the M-204 minesweeper, the mine winding was damaged, four and seven were lightly injured, and six wounded on the M-4 minesweeper. The watchman V-1707 received a hole in the boiler from a direct hit by an aircraft cannon shell.
        It should be noted that on February 28, in the 7th Guards Shap, along with eight “silts” with 23-mm VV guns and five with 20-mm ShVAK guns, there were as many as twenty aircraft armed with 37-mm NS-37 guns. The powerful 37-mm shell and long range NS-37 were perfectly suited for attacks by enemy ships, allowing them to inflict serious damage.
        In the future, references to losses and damage became constant in the reports of the enemy. In total, in March, the Germans lost out of the crews of ships 15 people killed, 42 seriously and 39 lightly wounded. Four ships went out of order for several months (M-7, M-3135, M-3122, V-1708). Shorter periods of emergency repairs escaped M-4, M-14, M-204, M-459, M-3107 and M-3112.

        Soviet air force against kriegsmarine
        Zablotsky Alexander Nikolaevich
        On the whole, July ended for the enemy with a disappointing balance of losses. 148 sailors were killed or missing, 269 were wounded [38]. Only aviation sank the Niobe air defense cruiser (July 16), the minesweepers M-20 and M-413 (both July 22), the patrol ship V-1707 (July 21), the high-speed landing barges F-498 and F-273 (18 and July 22, respectively). Minesweepers M-3, M-14, M-15, M-204, M-413, M-453, M-460, M-3114, M-30, M-19, were damaged by Soviet aircraft of varying severity M-29, M-22, patrol vessels V-1705, V-1703, BDB F-259 (as a result of landing on the ground), artillery barges AF-33 and AF-34.

        Or do you need a list of all the ships, ships and boats sunk or damaged by Soviet naval pilots?
        1. mvg
          +1
          24 May 2019 23: 14
          17 Il-2s flew out of the 7th Guards Assault Aviation Regiment. They were covered by 25 La-5 fighters. As a result of their attacks on the M-204 minesweeper, the mine winding was damaged, four and seven were lightly injured, and six wounded on the M-4 minesweeper.

          Alex, are you kidding? 42 aircraft 3 minesweepers attacked. Let me remind you, practically without air defense ships ... The result, the ship is damaged, 10 people were injured ...
          The Fritz flew out one piece, which in the overload carried 1 ton bomb, and sank the battleship Marat. He sat on his belly. Submerged. Then the cruiser and the leader of the destroyers. At the same time, they mainly helped the ground forces.
          sunk the Niobe air defense cruiser

          She is the training and artillery ship "Gelderland", converted into a floating battery, at the time of the sinking she was 45 years old! Can you really compare? Let's give a bang .. but the facts.
          1. 0
            24 May 2019 23: 26
            Tell me the name of the large ship of the former at that time in the reach zone of the KBF Air Force?
            What was - and drowned!
            She is the training and artillery ship "Gelderland", converted into a floating battery, at the time of the sinking she was 45 years old! Can you really compare? Let's not hurray .. and the facts.

            This floating battery could pack many Soviet planes! And the fact that it didn’t work out for her - let the Germans blame themselves! And our pilots did everything right!
            The Japanese sank the 25 year old "Repals" and didn’t worry about its age and ability to resist!
            1. mvg
              +1
              24 May 2019 23: 33
              The Japanese sank the 25-year-old "Ripal" and did not care about his age and ability to resist!

              Well, at the same time we took with them the battleship "Prince of Wales" Well, the newest British battleship at that time ... King George V series .. And 25 years, for a heavy cruiser that drove the Germans across the Atlantic .. it's bullshit.
              1. 0
                24 May 2019 23: 43
                So why did German aces blunder and not send him to the bottom themselves?
                It is a pity that we could not find the Scheer when he climbed our northern waters! But the cat wept for strength! Somehow they managed to get by with the loss of "Dezhnev" and damage to the steamers in the harbor of Fr. Dixon during his raid on Scheera Island.
                And then they could not send him to the bottom in the Baltic!
                What was it was!
                The blame for the losses from those responsible cannot be removed, but to belittle the merits of our sea pilots is, to put it mildly, wrong!
                They flew on what was and did their work without sparing themselves!
                .. The first "fire ram", completed on May 8 (1944), is fully confirmed by data from both sides. On this day, 12 attack aircraft from the 35th Shap, accompanied by sixteen “Yaks”, attacked enemy ships in the Narva Bay with two groups. According to German data, the auxiliary guard V-1701 was sunk as a result of ramming the aircraft. Oddly enough, the crew of the ship was not injured, with the exception of two wounded. Among them was the commander of the 17th flotilla of patrol watchmen frigate-captain Paul Schultze. Our losses amounted to two silt, shot down by the Focke-Wulfs that broke through to the second strike group. The crews of junior lieutenants A.T. Grinchenko [34] and A.A. Gavrilova (shooter-radio operator senior Red Navy G.E. Tsikunov). One of them sent his burning car to an enemy ship. Most likely, this is still Grinchenko, since the Gavrilov attack aircraft was shot down already on the move from the target.
                1. mvg
                  +1
                  24 May 2019 23: 54
                  belittle the merits of our sea pilots - to put it mildly wrong!

                  I do not belittle, in any case ... But the conversation turned to losses and successes. At the time the war began, we had 4 times more aircraft than the Germans. All sorts of different ... And old and completely new ..
                  And again your example is "not in the subject" ... an auxiliary patrol boat (an ordinary fishing vessel on which they put a couple of machine guns) was drowned, having lost 2 aircraft. Narva Bay is sooo small ... I don’t understand whether we prepared poorly, or it was a “bad word”. angry This is 1944. Learned to fight. We already have superiority in the air ... Rather, it's still a "bad word" ...
                  PS: What is there to be proud of? It is necessary for the enemy to die, and not to die "heroically".
                  1. 0
                    25 May 2019 00: 15
                    An illustrative example is the choice of one's fate by the pilot himself!
                    Read the book! There were planes and tanks, and all this was on the territory of the entire USSR!
                    And there were no less problems. With the training of personnel, radio equipment for aircraft and airfields. Air defense system of the same airfields. Trite with the amount of fuel for technology! It was. It all was! They were to blame - they were! There was blood - a lot of blood! Won - WIN!
                    Won the Japanese pilots, their successes did not bring victory! The Germans also brought victory! And after all, they swept a lot of ships, one Rudel "shot" almost half the score of the 502nd Tigers heavy battalion! The planes were knocked out - just horror!
                    But it was all over - RED FLAG OVER REICHSTAG!
                    Now we can only remember the fallen and try to "not flog a fever" when analyzing the events of those years! We did not live then and did not make difficult decisions ...
                    1. mvg
                      +1
                      25 May 2019 00: 31
                      Won Japanese pilots their success did not bring victory!

                      The Japanese got involved in a deliberately losing war. With the most powerful fleet in the United States and the most powerful economy. They themselves understood this. We fought very well. Moreover, they also did not have EXPERIENCE, like the Red Army. Samurai
                      RED FLAG OVER REICHSTAG!

                      It was not at all necessary to lose 50 million people .. and retreat to Moscow. We fought in OWN territory, on the defensive (i.e. 1: 3 should have been), and the advantage was in everything. In the number of tanks, artillery, aircraft, man, mobilization reserve .. partisans ... What's wrong, I don’t understand? But you see how the same rudel shot 500 tanks, or how a thing drowns a battleship, and 42 aircraft, on their territory, attacking minesweepers injure 10 people, and it becomes a little clearer, or vice versa, not clearer.
                      hi
                      1. 0
                        25 May 2019 12: 19
                        But you see how the same rudel shot 500 tanks, or how a thing drowns a battleship, and 42 aircraft, on their territory, attacking minesweepers injure 10 people, and it becomes a little clearer, or vice versa, not clearer.

                        It turns out that for you the boastful "hunting stories" about Rudel's "exploits" are proven and cannot be questioned?
                        And frank, documented and double-checked according to German documents the results of the combat work of Soviet soldiers and officers is nothing worth noting?
                        Four write, two in mind
                        Alexander Mardanov
                        The next two “victories” in the account of non-commissioned officer Muller appeared on September 17, but they are also not confirmed by Soviet data. In those days, the weather in the Murmansk direction worsened, but the aircraft of the warring parties showed significant activity, bombing and storming ground troops. In the evening there was a clash over the front line of two strike groups. About 30
                        at 18:40 fascist bombers were attacked by Soviet ground troops. But soon our attack aircraft appeared: five I-153s from the 147th IAP, accompanied by six I-16s of the 145th IAP, which at 18:35 flew out to bombard the enemy’s artillery positions in the area of ​​Lake Kuyrkjavr. Here they met with the covering fighter group of the enemy on Me 109E, with which they started an air battle. One of the Messerschmitts launched a head-on attack on Lieutenant Berlov’s “seagull”, which did not happen often. Soon, eight English "Hurricanes" arrived to intercept the battlefield. Hurricane bombers were no longer caught and also fought with fighters. In total, rather large forces took part in this battle, which lasted 15-20 minutes: five I-153, six I-16 and eight "Hurricanes" against the nine Bf 109E.The numerical superiority of the Allies had a positive effect: according to intelligence reports of the 1st mixed air division (1st SAD), Soviet and English pilots shot down three Me 109. The German loss lists speak of only one destroyed Bf 109E-3 No. 4004, whose pilot, sergeant sergeant Stigmeier, died. This only downed plane can be considered shot down jointly by Soviet and English pilots. Neither “donkeys” nor “gulls” had any casualties in this battle. Nevertheless, on September 17, non-commissioned officer Müller came up with a “shot down” I153 from somewhere, which, as we see, is not confirmed by anything, nor Mueller’s application for “shot down” on the same day DB-ZF. In general, non-existent victories recorded for both sides.

                        But since you already have YOUR opinion - you live with him! Each has its own head, and it has the knowledge or information that he himself placed in his head!
                        hi
            2. mvg
              0
              25 May 2019 00: 03
              floating battery could cram a lot of Soviet aircraft

              This is a training ship on which anti-aircraft guns were put. This is not the American battleship San Antonio, which has a heap of different caliber anti-aircraft guns, from 20 mm machine guns to 127 mm semiautomatic devices, most importantly, a bunch of computer centers ... there is still the ability to maneuver ... This is a motionless target to attack which You can prepare in advance.
              PS: There is no need to give the Hero of the Union for an ordinary task ... It should be routine. Well, this is how the Jews now endure targets from the Syrians, or an attack by torpedo bombers on Bismarck ... in difficult conditions, go to a drop dead armed ship, considered unsinkable, and deprive it of its progress, without losses .. And these are "Svordvish" 300 km / h
          2. +1
            24 May 2019 23: 29
            Soviet air force against kriegsmarine
            Zablotsky Alexander Nikolaevich
            Read this book. There and the losses. And about professionalism and its absence. Good book! No shouting Hurray!
          3. 0
            24 May 2019 23: 33
            Here is the real fact from the book -
            The 18th and 19th railway batteries were most often used for shelling the Gatchina, and the 19th battery under the command of Captain V.N. usually played the role of the “first violin”. Myasnyankin.
            ... But the 19th battery held its best "anti-aircraft" firing in April 1943. Shortly before that, a separate light-bombing group (Stoerkampfgruppe) Luftotte was formed from separate "harassing" squadrons created after the Soviet night light-bombing regiments equipped with U-2 aircraft and included in the 1st air fleet under the command of Major Boris von Maubeuge ]. The materiel of the “harassing” squadrons, and now of the new group, consisted of obsolete light bombers and training aircraft taken from various Luftwaffe flight schools. The nightlights of the Stoerkampfgruppe flew on a very motley "collection" consisting of a variety of biplanes, such as the Ar-2, Go-66, He-145, He-45 and W.46. In order to use these light vehicles with a small radius of effect with great effect, they had to be located as close to the front line as possible. Therefore, it is only natural that the group was deployed at the advanced airfield in Gatchina.
            We do not know whether or not German "sewing machines" managed to start their combat work before the night of April 9, when Soviet shells again began to burst on the Gatchina airfield. The state of Stoerkampfgruppe after the end of the firing raid is best described in one word - pogrom. Overnight, the group lost twelve light bombers. Eight He-46s (serial numbers 261, 323, 327,404, 706, 755,1154,1227) and four Arado (serial numbers 279, 1005, 1223, 1227) were killed.

            Of course not pilots, but the battery belonged to the KBF!
  9. -3
    24 May 2019 02: 55
    An interesting article from an already venerable author :) The only comment would be to dig deeper. I'm just sure that 4 types of machine guns were created for a reason. Let me remind you that it was in the 40s of the XXth century that the really massive equipping of armies and fleets with heavy machine guns began. And not everyone did it right away. The Italians themselves didn’t make a decently working machine gun, the French Gotchkis was very damp, the Palace of Culture failed, the DShK couldn’t master the production without the necessary quantities ...
    Probably the Japanese were persecuted with problems of a production or operational nature, which the weak engineering school did not allow to solve, so they sculpted Banzai with a cry! each time a new machine gun, in the hope that this one will succeed.
    1. +2
      25 May 2019 13: 07
      Of course, not just ... Everywhere alone, only we are smart now, here on the sofas, we are engaged in analytics ... Underestimation of the enemy is the very first cause of any defeat.
      All this seems to be known, and always at the same time they stubbornly consider people who earn clinical money for this professionally.
      Well, with regard to naval aviation - in fact, there is obviously a correlation between the geometrical dimensions of the cartridge case, which at that time was made using copper that was scarce at that time, for island Japan strategically, critically important raw materials, and the type of machine gun use. Turret - sleeves are returned - a powerful cartridge, a long sleeve, winged and synchronized - the shells are lost, therefore we take the cartridge shorter and cheaper.
      Production of machine-gun cartridges, I recall - hundreds of thousands, if not millions of units. Saving one gram is a colossal saving. And this is only the first thing that comes to mind.
      The second is the ability to create a machine gun for a powerful cartridge that is acceptable in the given aircraft performance characteristics. The existing metallurgical industry and machine tool park do not allow the production of a light machine gun chambered for a powerful cartridge at a given time, which in turn will lead to an increase in the weight of the aircraft, and as a consequence to a decrease in the combat radius of action of fighter aircraft. And this automatically reduces the combat radius of the torpedo and bomber. Third, the tactics of the battle of the Japanese fighter aircraft were built around the "dog dump" in which the maneuverable Zeros had an advantage. Accordingly, both the sights and the training of the pilots themselves were built for shooting almost at point-blank range, and there was no point in producing machine guns with frankly excessive ballistics ... There is also a fourth, fifth ... And this is just what comes to mind for a diliant, from obvious possible reasons.
      Amateurs argue about the performance characteristics. Professionals - about logistics. (with)
      It is necessary to knock out tattoos on the hands of each sofa analyst, half a phrase, on the left and right, half. That would be before you start giving birth to the next opus about which is better, the Tiger or T-34, AK or M-16, or there, which the Japanese thought at first.
  10. +5
    24 May 2019 05: 49
    Author, you need to dig deeper!
    The sequence of Japanese machine guns 20-30gg certain is.
    And what for - "anti-aircraft" Type 96 "(" Hotchkiss ") under the French cartridge 13,2x99 mm"?

    Here are articles about "13mm type 93" https://lautlesen.livejournal.com/27526.html

    The development of aviation machine guns of the army and navy (table):
    1. 0
      24 May 2019 09: 58
      And I was about to throw you a link "to read" :)) Greetings, colleague!
      1. 0
        24 May 2019 11: 56
        Good day!
        Well, how do you get past ...
  11. 0
    24 May 2019 06: 49
    The start of the war with China, despite the weakness of the Chinese army, showed the Japanese military frank weakness of rifle caliber machine guns. It was in China that the Japanese pilots received the first lessons of American-made large-caliber machine guns. The Curtiss Hawk P-36 were not modern aircraft, but their 12,7-mm Browns made the Japanese think.

    P-36 is not modern? At the beginning of the Sino-Japanese War, it was the newest and most modern in design. For example, the Japanese fighters of that time had a fixed gear, unlike.
    1. 0
      24 May 2019 11: 09
      Quote: Snakebyte
      P-36 is not modern? At the beginning of the Sino-Japanese War, it was the newest and most modern in design.

      You will also remember that it was the P-36 that shot down the Zero during the raid on Pearl Harbor. smile
      1. 0
        24 May 2019 11: 39
        At the end of 1941, the P-36, of course, was outdated, although the possibilities of modernization were far from exhausted (as an example, the experienced Hawk-81A-R1830). But during the Sino-Japanese war, its performance characteristics were at the level of analogues, and in France in 1940 it performed well, although it was already inferior to the latest modifications of the Bf-109.
  12. +1
    24 May 2019 09: 59
    .
    more precisely, not tofu

    Tofu is a Chinese dish, what does the samurai have to do with it? ..
    1. +1
      24 May 2019 16: 04
      This filthy tofu is common throughout Asia. Even in India there is, but something else is called.
  13. +1
    24 May 2019 15: 08
    Just a splendid article, thank you so much.!

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