The missed opportunities of the army of Kolchak

29
Smoot. 1919 year. For two weeks of fighting the Red Army has achieved impressive success. The enemy advance to the Volga was stopped. The western army of Khanzhin suffered a heavy defeat. The Reds advanced to 120-150 km and smashed the 3 and 6 of the Urals, 2 of the Ufa enemy corps. Strategic initiative passed to the red command.

The defeat of the corps Bakich


Shortly before the counter-offensive of the Red Army, both sides received information about the plans of the enemy. 18 April 1919, the 25 division's intelligence Chapaeva intercepted white couriers due to secret orders. They reported that between 6 corps of General Sukin and 3 corps of General Wojciechowski there was a gap about 100 kilometers. It was reported that the 6 body begins to turn to Buzuluk. That is, White could stumble upon the shock grouping of the Reds and tie it into battle, destroying Frunze’s plans. The Red Commander planned an attack on 1 on May 1919 of the year. But then White also discovered that the Reds were preparing a counterstrike. One of the red kombrigs, Avayev, ran to the whites and announced plans for a counteroffensive. Upon learning of this, Frunze postponed the attack on April 28 so that the Kolchakites would not have time to retaliate.



However, the first battles began earlier. Wishing to take Orenburg as quickly as possible, the commander of the Southern Army Group Belov, after unsuccessful attacks from the front, he brought his reserve into battle - General Bakich's 4 Corps. White, crossing the river. Salmysh near Imangulov on the extreme right flank of the 20 Infantry Division, was to assist Dutov's Orenburg army from the north in seizing Orenburg. Then in case of luck, cut the railway Buzuluk - Samara. If White could realize this plan, then he would be able to lead the environment of the 1 th Red Army, Guy together with the 5 and 6 corps, and went to the rear of the Frunze shock group. As a result, the corps of Bakich ran into the main forces of Guy’s army, which quickly managed to respond to the threat and go on the offensive.

On the night of April 21, a part of the white forces forced Salmysh on boats. The Reds had an excellent opportunity to crush the enemy corps in parts. The Red Command threw 2 infantry into battle, 1 cavalry regiments, an international battalion reinforced with artillery. The red units during the 24 - 26 battles of April, the villages of Sakmarskaya and Yangizsky, simultaneously routed the Kolchak troops with a sudden strike from the south and north. For April 26 alone, the White Guards lost 2 to thousands of prisoners, 2 guns and 20 machine guns. Remains of white troops fled across the river Salmysh.

Thus, two divisions of whites were almost completely destroyed, part of the whites went over to the side of the red. The 4 Corps was staffed by mobilized peasants of Kustanai district, where they had just crushed a peasant uprising. Therefore, the peasants did not differ in high combat capability, did not want to fight for Kolchak and easily switched to the side of the Reds. Soon it will become a ubiquitous phenomenon and will strike the fatal blow of Kolchak's army. In strategic terms, the defeat of Bakich's troops led to the fact that the rear messages of the Western Army Khanzhin on Belebey were open. And Guy's 1 Army gained operational freedom. That is, by the end of April, the situation in the area of ​​the strike group became even more favorable for the offensive. In addition, the first victories of the Red Army over Kolchak will inspire the Red Army.

Meanwhile, while on the left flank of the army, Khanzhin was threatened, the head of the clip of the Western Army, which had already decreased to 18 –22 thousand bayonets, continued its march towards the Volga, despite signs of a catastrophe approaching. 25 April, the White Guards occupied Art. Chelny near the town of Sergiyevsk, which threatened Kinel - a junction station on the rear railway communication of the entire South Group with its main base. On the same day, the whites took Chistopol. 27 April 2 th corps of whites took Sergiyevsk, and in the Chistopol direction pressed the Reds. This prompted the red command to launch an offensive without waiting for the completion of the concentration of the Turkestan army. In the direction of Chistopol, the right flank of the 2 Red Army was instructed to go on the offensive for the return of Chistopol.

Khanzhin, having received information about the enemy’s counterstroke being prepared, tried to take retaliatory measures. To close the gap in the south, they began to push the 11 Division into it, directing strong reconnaissance groups towards Buzuluk. The commander of the 3 corps was supposed to push the Izhevsk brigade out of its reserve there, placing it on the 11 division. However, these measures were belated and only weakened the white 3 and 6 corps even more. Cover these 100-kilometer gap, these parts could not, they were only substituted by a blow, stretching over a large space.


Samara. In the headquarters of M.V. Frunze is discussing the plan for the Buguruslan operation. May 1919 of the year



Frunze M.V. (down center) in Samara with a team of armored trains before being sent to the Eastern Front. 1919 year


Counteroffensive on the Eastern Front. Buguruslan operation


28 on April 1919, the Southern Group forces launched an offensive with a combined strike - from the front with units of the 5 Red Army and into the flank and rear of the Khanzhin Army with a shock group in the Buguruslan direction. Thus began the Buguruslan operation of the Red Army, which lasted until May 13. The strike group included 4 rifle brigades, on the right flank they were supported by the 2 cavalry regiment, then the 24-I division was advancing east.

On the night of April 28, the Chapayevites attacked the stretched units of the 11 division of the White Guards. They easily broke through the stretched front of the enemy, smashing the whites in pieces and rushed from south to north, to Buguruslan. The 11 Division was defeated. Her commander, General Vanyukov, reported that there were 250 left on the shelves - 300 people, soldiers were massively surrendering. The adjacent 7-I infantry division of General Toreykin was also defeated. At the same time, the 24 Rifle Division of the Reds piled on the 12 Division of the Whites. Here they failed to crush Kolchak, but the Reds also took up and pressed the enemy to the north, excluding the possibility of maneuvering the 6 corps. In some areas, the White Guards still fiercely fought, especially Izhevsk. But the Reds had a numerical superiority and could bypass such sites, finding gaps or less combat-ready parts of the enemy. 4 May Chapaev liberated Bururuslan. Thus, the Reds intercepted one of the two railroads that linked the Western Army with its rear. 5 May Red repulsed Sergiyevsk.

Frunze He introduced a fresh 2 division into the breakthrough and threw two 5 Army divisions into battle. Orenburg cavalry rushed into the raid, smashing the white backs. Thus, the position of the Western Army Khanzhin became desperate. Whites suffered heavy losses, during the week of fighting whites lost about 11 thousand people in the main line. 6-th corps was actually broken, knocked out. The 3 Ural Corps was also defeated. The morale of the white army was undermined, the combat capability rapidly fell. Those deep negative prerequisites that were originally formed in the army of Kolchak had an effect. As previously noted, in the Russian army Kolchak was a strong personnel shortage. Good managerial, military personnel was not enough.

Mobilized Siberian men, often from the counties where the white punishers passed, more and more often gave up and went over to the Reds. While the White Guards attacked, unity remained. The defeat immediately caused the collapse of the Kolchak army. Whole units passed over to the side of the Red Army. On May 2, Khanzhin informed the Kolchak headquarters that a Kuren (regiment) named after Shevchenko from the 6 corps raised a riot, killed his officers and officers from the 41 and 46 regiments, and took the 2 guns, went over to the Reds. This was not an exceptional case. During the run to the Volga, the White Guard units were exsanguinated. They were replenished replenishment of mobilized forcibly peasants and part of the workers from the front line. The volunteers who formed the backbone of Kolchak's army were largely knocked out during previous battles. The rest disappeared into the new arrivals. Thus, the social composition of the Kolchak army radically changed. The recruits for the most part did not want to fight at all and at the first opportunity gave in captivity or went over to the Reds side. weapons in hand. At the end of April, the white general Sukin noted that “all the reinforcements that have been poured recently have been transferred to red and even took part in the battle against us.”

A completely different picture was observed in the Red Army. Red Army soldiers were inspired by victories. The recruits from the workers and peasants, with a large number of communists and trade union workers, who arrived on the Eastern front, greatly strengthened the army. In the course of the struggle against the white army in the ranks of the Reds, new cadres of talented, enterprising commanders grew up, who reinforced the already existing cadres of the tsarist army. They helped build a new army and smash the whites. In particular, since April 1919, the former head of the imperial army, P. P. Lebedev, was the chief of staff of the Eastern Front, the former general of the old army, F. F. Novitsky, was an assistant to the commander of the Southern Group, and the military engineer was the head of the military engineering work of the front. , former lieutenant colonel of the old army D. M. Karbyshev.

Kolchakites still tried to recoup, stop the enemy, and then attack again. Having no reserves, General Khanzhin requested reinforcements from Kolchak. From Siberia at the disposal of Khanzhin, the only reserve of Kolchak’s army — Kappel's corps, which had not yet completed its formation, was hastily transferred. At the same time, White rearranged the remaining forces of the attack group advancing to the Volga, uniting them under General Voitsekhovsky, creating a defensive line in the region to the west and south of Bugulma. Wojciechowski planned to inflict a flank counterattack on the red. At the same time, units of Chapaev continued the offensive.

9 May 1919, parts of Chapaev and Wojciechowski collided on the river Ik head-on. The 4-I Urals mountain rifle division and the Izhevsk brigade, which remained the main strike force of the Kolchak army, were the strike force of the whites. To help the 25 division of Chapaev, the Reds brought up two more divisions. During the fierce three-day battles, the White Guards were defeated. 13 May Red redeemed Bugulma, cutting another line of the railway and post road - the last communications of the Western Army. Now the white units, who had not yet retreated to the east, had to throw out heavy weapons and property, and leave the steppes and country lanes to escape. The White Guards retreated across the river Ik. The Western army suffered another heavy defeat, but was not yet defeated. The main forces Kolchak departed in the area Belebey.

Thus, in two weeks of fighting, the Red Army achieved impressive success. The enemy advance to the Volga was stopped. The western army of Khanzhin suffered a heavy defeat. The Reds advanced to 120 - 150 km and smashed the 3 and 6 of the Urals, the 2 of the Ufa enemy corps. Strategic initiative passed to the red command. However, there were still heavy battles ahead. Khanzhin's troops concentrated in the Belebey area, Kappel's corps arrived. Here Kolchak's men were preparing for a stubborn defense and hoped, under a favorable situation, to launch a counteroffensive.



Missed opportunities Kolchak


In this case, it should be noted that now the situation has turned upside down. Having defeated the Khanzhin shock group that had been pulled out far ahead, now the reds in the center of the front had a wedge 300 - 400 km of approximately the same width into the “white” territory. After all, on the flanks of the Eastern Front, the situation was still in favor of the whites. In the north, the Siberian army of Gaydy still had local successes. In the south, the White Cossacks continued to attack Uralsk and Orenburg. The Orenburg army of Dutov stormed Orenburg, and in May it united with the Cossacks of the Ural Army Tolstov. Uralsk was blocked from all sides. White Cossacks acted north of the city and threatened the rear of the Southern Reds group. They took Nikolaevsk and went to the Volga. With their advancement, the Cossacks raised uprisings in the Ural region. The commanders of the 1 and 4 of the Red armies proposed to leave Orenburg and Uralsk, to withdraw the troops. Frunze categorically rejected these proposals and ordered to hold the city to the last possible. And he was right. Orenburg and Ural White Cossacks concentrated all their efforts on capturing their “capitals”. As a result, the excellent Cossack cavalry during the decisive battles on the Eastern Front was constrained, was not engaged in their own business - stormed the city fortifications. Cossacks got stuck, not wanting to leave their villages, while the decisive battles were going on in the north.

White command and 14-ths. Southern army group Belova, which continued to stand in the Orenburg steppes. Here, no active actions were carried out, even demonstrative. Although the Belov group could be used for flank counterattack on the strike group of the Reds, support the Wojciechowski group or abandon Tolstov's Ural army for help to take Uralsk and then jointly attack the Reds in the southern direction. This could dramatically complicate the position of the Reds in the central sector of the front. And then the red command has already taken countermeasures. Frunze ordered the strengthening of the Red Army on the southern wing. The Moscow Cavalry Division, the 3 brigade was transferred from the front reserve to Frunze. There were replenishment. Often it was hastily hammered parts, weak, poorly trained and armed. But they were good enough to keep the defense against the Cossacks, not to attack the enemy, but to keep the front.

The potential of the 50-thousandth Siberian army located on the northern flank was not fully utilized by the white command. Commanded the army of Radol (Rudolph) Gaida, the former military assistant of the Austro-Hungarian army, who surrendered and went over to the Serbs. Then he arrived in Russia, became the captains of the Czechoslovak Corps, in May 1918, he became one of the leaders of the anti-Bolshevik uprising of the Czechoslovak legionaries. When the Directory switched to the Russian service and received the rank of lieutenant general. After the military coup began to serve in the army of Kolchak. It was a typical adventurer who used confusion for the development of his personal career. Pretended to be the savior of Russia, formed a magnificent convoy following the example of the imperial. At the same time, he did not forget to fill the trains with various good, gifts and gifts from citizens of cities. Surrounded himself with incredible luxury, orchestras, sycophants. He had no military talents, he was incompetent. At the same time he had a quarrelsome character. He believed that the direction of his Siberian army was the main (Permian-Vyatka). The defeat of Hanjin Gaid even pleased. At the same time, Gaida quarreled with another narrow-minded man (the cadres decide everything!) - D. Lebedev, the chief of staff of Kolchak. When Kolchak's bid began to send Gayde one by one orders to help the Western army, suspend the attack on Vyatka and Kazan, transferred the main forces to the central direction, he ignored these orders. He considered directives received from Omsk to turn the main efforts of the Siberian Army to the south as mediocre and impracticable. And instead of the south, he stepped up actions in the north. Pepeliaev's corps advanced another 45 km and June 2 took Glazov. Vyatka was threatened, but strategically the city was absolutely not needed anymore. As a result, the preservation of the main forces of the Siberian army in the Vyatka sector led to the defeat of the Western Army of Khanzhin, the output of the Red troops to the Siberians and the collapse of the entire Eastern White Front.

The missed opportunities of the army of Kolchak

Gaida and Wojciechowski (almost hidden by a horse muzzle) take a parade of Czechoslovak troops on the main square of Yekaterinburg


Belebei operation


Meanwhile, the command of the Western Army was still trying to turn the tide in their favor. Khanzhin tried to organize a counterstrike from the east in order to cut down the base of the wedge of the Red Army. For this purpose, the Volga Corps of Kappel was concentrated in the Belebey area.

However, Frunze, having learned about the concentration of enemy forces in the Belebey area, decided to destroy the enemy himself. Before the attack on Belebey, the composition of the Southern group was changed. The 5 Army was withdrawn from it, but two divisions of this army transferred Frunze. The 25 division going to Kama was deployed to advance on Belebey from the north, the 31 division was to advance from the west, and the 24 division that oppressed White's 6 corps from the south. Kappel was under a triple blow and was defeated. He hardly succeeded in completing difficult maneuvers, hiding behind the rearguards and counterattacking, to take his troops out of the "cauldron" and avoid complete destruction.

At the same time, the red command barely helped White. It happened during the change of command of the front. Instead of S. S. Kamenev, A. A. Samoylo ​​(the former commander of the 6 Army operating in the north) was appointed front commander. He arrived with new plans that differed significantly from the plan of the old command of the front and Frunze. Samoilo and Commander-in-Chief Vatsetis, not imagining the entire depth of the defeat of the Western White Army, underestimated the significance of the further attack on the Ufa area, and worried about the situation on the northern flank, began to disperse the forces of the Southern group, withdrawing the 5 army from it. At the same time, the 5 Army was given a different task; it now had to advance north and northeast on the flank of the Siberian Army, to the aid of the 2 Army. At the same time, the enemy should have been attacked by the 2 and 3 of the Red armies.

Meanwhile, a successful breakthrough of the Southern group in the Ufa area would have forced Guyda’s army to begin withdrawal (which is what happened). That is, the new command did not understand the situation. During 10 days, Samoilo issued 5 conflicting directives to the commander of the 5 army Tukhachevsky, changing the direction of the main attack each time. It is clear that there was confusion. In addition, the front command tried to lead separate divisions through the heads of the commanders, to interfere in their affairs. All this made it difficult for the offensive operation. As a result, at the end of May, Samoilo was removed from the front command, Kamenev became the front again.

The Belebei operation ended with the victory of the Red Army. Having broken Kappelev's stubborn resistance, on May 17 the red cavalry of the 3 Cavalry Division liberated Belebey. Kolchak's men hastily retreated to the Belaya River, to Ufa. This allowed the red command to strengthen the troops in the Orenburg and Ural regions and proceed to the Ufa operation.


Kolchak troops during the retreat. Source: https://ru.wikipedia.org
29 comments
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  1. +3
    15 May 2019 05: 01
    And what is the point of talking "about the missed opportunities of Kolchak's army ..."? History still "does not tolerate (does not allow) the subjunctive mood"! Or... wink still useful in the future "fight against counter"? what
    1. +6
      15 May 2019 07: 31
      As previously noted, there was a strong personnel shortage in the Russian army of Kolchak. There were not enough good managerial, military personnel.
      - from article

      I liked the article. Only the author again uses the name "Russian army" in the name of Kolchak's army, which is objectively not true. There cannot be such a name for an army in a civil war for any of the warring parties. Historically true: White Army and Red Army.
  2. +4
    15 May 2019 06: 48
    Thank you for the article. The reasons for the defeat are obvious, there’s no one and nothing to fight at Kolchak.
    1. -1
      15 May 2019 07: 15
      C'mon, there wasn’t anything for them to fight on the side of Kolchak, they had defeats for many other reasons.
      1. +5
        15 May 2019 08: 28
        And for WHAT was the working people asked to fight as part of Kolchak's troops? For a new yoke? They did not have that tough work of propagandists and commissars, you won’t get far on the “white idea of ​​the crushers.” Moreover, there was no unity, their “allies” threw them.
        1. -3
          15 May 2019 12: 28
          And those people who went to the Reds received the same yoke, only they did not wait for the promised land. And the propaganda of the Reds was really very good.
          1. +3
            15 May 2019 15: 00
            Yes, to some extent you are right. About personal land. But after some ten years, these people with a "yoke around their necks" were making a Great State out of a backward country ..
            1. +1
              15 May 2019 15: 28
              Here you are right about the Great State.
          2. 0
            20 June 2019 17: 43
            How not expected - a deuce in history! "Land to the peasants" about such a decree Ulyanov not heard?
    2. +4
      15 May 2019 12: 45
      And the "ruler Omsky" also managed to lose the support of the Siberians and Transbaikalians, who supported him at first, and then created partisan detachments at first without the participation of the Bolsheviks. He was a good polar explorer, but a lousy manager, since he could not put a muzzle on his minions in the sense of looting and robbery ... hi
  3. +6
    15 May 2019 08: 35
    It’s too early to talk about missed opportunities.
    This requires a step-by-step analysis of all key operations on the Eastern Front.
    Photo caption:
    Gaida and Wojciechowski (almost hidden by a horse muzzle) take a parade of Czechoslovak troops on the main square of Yekaterinburg

    Wojciechowski is not hidden by anything - he is on a horse exactly in the center of the photo
  4. +2
    15 May 2019 15: 37
    The whole operation of the Kolchakites, which began on the eve of the spring thaw on such a theater and on such a huge front, is a complete adventure. Apparently, they expected that after the very first defeats the Red Army would run away, and White would triumphantly reach Moscow. But it didn’t take off.
    It seems that the main blow had to be done in the south (Orenburg region) and to break through with all forces to join Denikin. Then maybe there would also be a chance
    1. +3
      15 May 2019 15: 59
      Kolchak and Denikin had something like a competition, who would get the laurels of the Savior of Russia from the lout and the rebellious mob.
      Similar (envy, rivalry to the detriment of the common cause) observation during the Brusilov breakthrough. When it was possible to develop success, but Brusilov’s neighbor refused to comply with the order of the Headquarters. In the Red Army could this be imagined?
  5. -1
    15 May 2019 17: 20
    -Kolchak ... as a military leader, organizer and leader (ruler) was absolutely untalented ...
    - It would be hard to find a worthless commander ...
    -Then, if he were in his place (well, let’s say ... by chance) .., for example ...- the former tsarist general K. Mannerheim., Then everything would be different ... -K. Mannerheim would simply smash the Reds in to pieces ... ... I just wouldn’t leave a stone on a stone ... -And I would immediately subjugate the Czechs (their entire corps) (on pain of death, execution) and force them to fight the Reds (and not loot in the territory Siberia and Russian gold to steal) ... -In Finland, K. Mannerheim did so during the red rebellion ... -destructive forces ... less than 5 thousand lumberjacks, smolokurov, farmers who were poorly armed and poorly trained (all that he was subordinate) ... -defeated and brutally cracked down on the 25 thousandth army, well-armed and fairly organized townspeople ... -A, if he had then been given the Siberian Army ...
    -A slut Kolchak, possessing such a powerful army ... - he obeyed everyone in a row ...- both the Czechs, the Americans, and the French (some Jewish general-general Janen came from France ... - so Kolchak and he obeyed all the instructions ) ... -What victory is there ...
    1. +1
      15 May 2019 21: 23
      gorenina91 "-A slobber Kolchak, possessing such a powerful army ... - obeyed everyone in a row ... - both the Czechs, and the Americans, and the French (some Jewish general Janin came from France ... - so Kolchak and his all I followed the instructions) ... -What a victory here. "
      On the side of Mannerheim was the factor of the national liberation idea. The Finns did not fight against the Reds.))) But against the Russians.
    2. +2
      16 May 2019 00: 50
      Mannerheim won only after the landing of the German von der Goltz division in Hanko and additionally the German brigade in Lovis - all in the rear of the Reds. In addition, huntsmen from specially Finns and Finnish Swedes who had specially fled there were formed and trained in Germany during World War II. The huntsmen were the shock units of Mannerheim. Finally, the "Swedish volunteers" fought at Mannerheim, of course, mostly personnel. The Reds had no chance of stopping the sudden blow in the rear of the one and a half fired German divisions. Mannerheim was not marked by any special “military genius”, which, incidentally, was shown by the way of the world war. So do not rush to make hasty conclusions without studying the facts.
      1. +2
        16 May 2019 00: 54
        And Mannerheim began with a vile attack on the Russian garrisons, half demobilized, which were deployed in Western Finland during the World War to prevent German landing. By agreement, they had a neutral status. Mannerheim immediately seized very large stocks of weapons. In addition, he was armed with neighboring Sweden
  6. +1
    15 May 2019 19: 10
    Well, finally, I waited for the Salmis battle, which decided the fate of Orenburg. Respect to the author!
  7. +1
    16 May 2019 01: 13
    Quote: Sergey Oreshin
    The whole operation of the Kolchakites, which began on the eve of the spring thaw on such a theater and on such a huge front, is a complete adventure. Apparently, they expected that after the very first defeats the Red Army would run away, and White would triumphantly reach Moscow. But it didn’t take off.
    It seems that the main blow had to be done in the south (Orenburg region) and to break through with all forces to join Denikin. Then maybe there would also be a chance

    It's easy to judge after the fact. The surviving archival documents speak of serious discussion about the campaign plan for the whites. What topics were discussed. The offensive in the south had a very difficult logistics, no communications. Being on the defensive is also futile, since the resources of the Reds are much larger, their armed forces are growing faster and time is working for them. Defense will be a delayed defeat. There are few resources in Siberia. So a plan arose to continue the offensive after the Ufa victory without an operational pause. Yes, there is a big risk, but if you are lucky, you can go to the Volga on the shoulders of the retreating Reds, where you can stop, pull up the rear and gain a foothold. Gopper’s Yaitsky Corps was being prepared to help the Ural Army, but its formation, and especially the transfer to the southern flank, was delayed due to the weakness of the rear. One of Kolchak's difficulties is the weakness of the officer corps. For all the armies there were only about 1000 personnel, and the rest - in wartime, while in the Supreme Council there were officer units.
    1. 0
      16 May 2019 01: 19
      And further. I would like to see a list of works that the author of the article used. Immediately obvious - Ogorodnikov, Eihe. Who else?
    2. 0
      16 May 2019 11: 09
      Yes, I agree, Kolchak’s situation was extremely difficult and complicated, and initially there were few chances
  8. 0
    16 May 2019 01: 30
    Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
    Kolchak and Denikin had something like a competition, who would get the laurels of the Savior of Russia from the lout and the rebellious mob.
    Similar (envy, rivalry to the detriment of the common cause) observation during the Brusilov breakthrough. When it was possible to develop success, but Brusilov’s neighbor refused to comply with the order of the Headquarters. In the Red Army could this be imagined?

    This is not true. There was a situation called military coalition in military science. The Bolsheviks-like Germany surrounded by the Entente))))
    In fact, the Reds sought to defeat the Whites in parts, transferring forces through internal communications. And for whites who were inferior in resources, the only chance would be a coordinated simultaneous offensive on all fronts. In the spring of 1919, Denikin would not be in a very simple situation. That's in large part therefore Kolchak and desperately rushed to the Volga. And there was no rivalry between them, Denikin recognized the power of Kolchak.
    Just in the Red Army there was such a very significant case in the Polish war with the refusal of the Cavalry Army to obey the order and advance from Lviv to save the entire front. These showdowns and intrigues of the red military leaders against each other are widely known.
  9. -1
    16 May 2019 09: 38
    To the Yaitsky Cossack (Borodin) Today, 00:50
    To the Yaitsky Cossack (Borodin) Today, 00:54


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -What. ??? - The Czechoslovak building stretched along the railway for hundreds of miles in the depths of Siberian Russia; having no rear, nor any real support ...- suddenly began to host all over Siberia ... -This is generally understood. ??? -Chekhs (Czech patrols) could easily arrest any Kolchak officer. (At least in Omsk, at least in any other Siberian city) ....
    - Kolchakovo counterintelligence was afraid (and even repaired by him) ... - What is this. ???
    -Cheches could arrest, carry out punitive actions, shoot, hang any suspicious (in their opinion) both a Russian civilian. And a serviceman of the Kolchak army (Kolchak himself was later arrested by them ...- Hahah) ... -That is is .., I personally ask you. ???
    -Instead of disarming the Czechoslovakians, which was very easy to do ... -where would they get away from
    W / Roads, having no food, no water., No firewood., No coal ... -And to shoot the insubordinate Czechs, change the entire command of the Czechs; to arm them again and reorganize, and then piece by piece "pour" them into the White Guard divisions ... - instead, Kolchak chose to obey the Czechs himself ... - Hahah ...
    -It's a disgrace .. -Kolchak would have given himself up to "spending time" in Timireva's company ... and he would have entrusted the command to someone else ...

    -Yes, as for K. Mannerheim .. that personally I am absolutely sure that his "military talent" in this situation would be quite enough to defeat the Red Army in this war ... -Such colossal power was in the hands of the slobber Kolchak ( and even the entire Russian Gold Reserve) ... -Yes, one could only dream of such a thing ... -And all this was at
    Kolchak ... -But .., alas ... and -Hahah ...
  10. -1
    16 May 2019 12: 43
    Quote: gorenina91
    Yes, as for K. Mannerheim .. that personally I am absolutely sure that his "military talent" in this situation would have been quite enough to defeat the Red Army in this war ... -Such colossal power was in the hands of Kolchak's slobber (yes also the entire Russian Gold Reserve) ... -Yes one could only dream of such a thing ... -And all this was at Kolchak's ... -But ..., alas ... and -Hahah ...


    Confidence and emotions are good. If you could still gain knowledge with them, it would be absolutely wonderful.

    Well, I will not comment on Kolchak's "colossal power".
    The role of the Czechs was imposed on him by the allies. Refuse is a conflict. Gold is very good, only it does not shoot by itself (Gaddafi had a lot of it, but what's the point). We must buy a weapon. At whom - at the same allies. And they took the money, but they were in no hurry to fulfill orders. So it happened with Kolchak - he ordered everything abroad, but received very little, the troops are stripped and swollen (read the memoirs of the same General Sakharov). As for the Bolsheviks, Kolchak did not get almost all the weapons and stockpiles of the 11 of the millionth old Russian army.

    Since Mannerheim is your idol and military genius, what could he not do without the Germans in 1918?
    One and a half divisions of fired on and well-armed Germans is more than those of your "lumberjacks and pitchmen" at Mannerheim. And before the arrival of the Germans, Mannerheim's affairs were not very good ...
    And Mannerheim did not have experience in managing strategic alliances. Almost the entire world war he commanded a regiment, brigade and equestrian division. The cavalry corps received in 1917, when the war was essentially over. Well, he’s not a strategist ...

    Well, where is his "genius" in the Soviet-Finnish wars. Well, how - he "won" the Red Army? Both times? In 1939 and 1944?
    You have something personal for him))) a prominent man probably)))
    I'm taking my leave for the sim ...
  11. -1
    16 May 2019 14: 01
    Quote: gorenina91
    Instead of disarming the Czechoslovakians, which was very easy to do ... -Where would they go from the Railway, without having any food, no water., No firewood., No coal ... -And to shoot the insubordinate Czechs, change the entire command of the Czechs; to arm them again and reorganize, and then piece by piece "pour" them into the White Guard divisions ... - instead, Kolchak chose to obey the Czechs himself ... - Hahah ...


    There is a free minute, let's take a look at this example.
    By the way, the more a person has real experience in managing people, the more he understands the illusory nature of simple and extreme decisions.

    So. You are Kolchak. You have a vast territory, but poor in military potential. The population is about 5 million people, while the reds only in the Volga provinces have at least 20-25 million (and all in Russia 150). You also don’t have a military industry, the only large military factories - Izhevsk and Votkinsk - are under the Bolsheviks, then you temporarily recaptured them, but it is very difficult to resume production. There are no stocks of the imperial army either (and basically they fought both sides).
    In Siberia - mostly a prosperous middle peasant. When the Bolsheviks began to rob him in 1918, he rebelled, and then returned home to the farm and does not want to mobilize for you to fight. He has a drum that is white, that is red. You mobilize him forcibly - and he becomes a partisan, or runs across to the front. And you need an army - you are forced to mobilize them more than in European Russia. At the same time, the Transbaikal chieftain Semenov is not very subordinate to you, but you can’t do anything. You cannot shoot a really illiterate Haidu, allies are behind him.

    You decided to disarm the Czechs - and with what forces? Your army is all at the front. The reserves in the rear are weak, unreliable and not ready. And all Czechs - almost 2 armed to the teeth and fired divisions - in the rear, in the key places of the Trans-Siberian Railway. They have nothing to lose - they are in a hostile environment. They won’t give up their weapons.
    Well, you captured the Czechs, for example, by surprise in Omsk, disarmed, shot. In other places, the Czechs came forward and easily occupied the main cities themselves, dispersed your spare parts, blocked the Trans-Siberian Railway and attacked your Omsk.
    In general, in your rear - a real second war. What will you fight? Remove from the front - the front will crumble, do not remove - it will collapse, cut off from the rear supply.
    Yes, and allies with an ultimatum come to you, otherwise they threaten to stop fulfilling your orders.
    Well, what are your actions? Fight on three fronts with the Reds, Czechs and Allies at the same time? ))))

    Thus, the proposed alternative forcefully leads to defeat ...
    Kolchak understood little in the land war; he was a sailor. Of course, he was soft and sometimes overly idealistic and trusting. But common sense was present. He brought to the reserve for reforming the Volga Corps (the remains of the famous Kappelevtsev), the working units of Izhevsk and Votkintsy, in order to prepare a reserve fist for himself for the future. But did not have time ...
    1. -1
      16 May 2019 14: 52
      To the Yaitsky Cossack (Borodin) Today, 14:01
      -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
      -Mannerheim ...- "my idol". ??? -This is your speculation ...

      -But it’s not for nothing that I compare him with Kolchak ...
      - At one time, Mannerheim got impoverished Finland with a miserable semblance of industry and the state army ... - No money, no weapons.; nor the Finnish citizens themselves, who would have had military professions in general ... - solid woodcutters, tar trees, farmers, etc. ... - And even living in farms, in the wilderness, at a great distance from each other ... and gather and organize and fight with such "soldiers" ......- Hahah ...
      -He, Mannerheim (Man-ym) took and seized the weapon ... -Military volunteers and some "Swedish volunteers" (who had no combat experience at all) were sent to him ... -So they still had to be commanded .. - so he commanded them ... - They were not the ones who commanded Man, but he was them ... - What would Kolchak do in his place ... - He would just waste everything ... - all of Finland ... - Hahah ...
      .. -Kolchak was commanded by all and sundry ... -And, if Kolchak in the depths of the "Siberian ores" could not subdue the Czechs .., then at all ...- he is not worth the price ... -Well, he would hire then "for the gold" of the same Man-ma ... - he would quickly "subdue" the Czechs ...
      -You generally ...- what to write about .. ??? -You yourself prove Kolchak’s bankruptcy as commander ...
      -And everything was enough for Kolchak ... and weapons and military ammunition, etc. ... -And most importantly ... -the Russian Siberian-middle peasant supported him .., i.e. - the main skeleton of the Siberian people ... -And this skeleton went voluntarily ...- went voluntarily !!! -In the army of Kolchak. !!!. -Where did you even see this then. ??? -Such a chic potential ... -You could only dream of such a thing ... -This desertion then began when the people realized that they were commanded by a moron who was ready to please both the Americans, Czechs, French and so on ...

      -Yes, as for Mannerheim, it’s worthwhile to really remember the Soviet-Finnish War of 1939-1940 ...
      -Figase, how did the Finns prove themselves then ... -How Man-yum managed to organize everything then ... -This is a complete disgrace for the regular Red Army ...
  12. -1
    16 May 2019 15: 41
    Quote: gorenina91
    -He, Mannerheim (Man-ym) took and seized the weapon ... -Military volunteers and some "Swedish volunteers" (who had no combat experience at all) were sent to him ... -So they still had to be commanded .. - so he commanded them ...


    Sorry, but you don’t hear me.
    I repeat for the last time, if you can read and at least somehow understand what you read:

    1. At first, he suddenly, despite the agreement on neutrality, captured Russian military garrisons, including in Ostrobothnia (Vasa, Seinajoki, Tornio, Oulu), etc.
    Only in Vasya and Seinajoki took 8 thousand rifles, 34 machine guns, 37 guns.
    About 2 thousand "volunteers" of Finnish rangers were trained in Germany and fought at the front there.

    2. He was "sent" 1 German division and 1 brigade, who also had experience in World War II. He did not command the Germans, they had their own generals, they themselves quickly defeated the Reds without any Mannerheim and occupied the capital Helsingfors.

    Can you refute? If not, then go in peace.
    No fountain of your emotions, sarcastic interjections and epithets can not withstand the facts)))
    1. -1
      16 May 2019 15: 59
      To the Yaitsky Cossack (Borodin) Today, 15:41


      “At first he suddenly, despite the agreement on neutrality, seized Russian military garrisons, including in Ostrobothnia (Vaza, Seinajoki, Tornio, Oulu), etc.
      Only in Vasa and Seinajoki they took 8 thousand rifles, 34 machine guns, 37 guns. "
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      -He himself (personally Mannerheim) them (these Russian military garrisons), did he take them (or did you personally help) ... ??? -Hahah ... -And in the Russian garrisons, or what ...- the kindergarten children were sitting., Or what .. ??? -And just like that for a bag of sweets "this kid" gave all the weapons ... -You write something yourself. ???
      - You yourself, at least think, "if you know how to read" ... - Hahah ...
      -And the Germans would never have stumbled upon an "unprepared place" ... -armed Russian garrisons to take ... and fight against the "Finnish taiga" (they would just get lost ...- Hahah) ...
      - And then ... - Well, they have fulfilled their "international duty" ... - And what .. ???
      -On you, Mr. Mannerheim ... -It's all right ... and rule on yourself ... -And we went home to Germany ..
      -It wasn’t so easy there ...
      -You don’t want to think ... -Well, so yourself ...- go in peace ...
  13. +1
    16 May 2019 23: 59
    The Red Army is all stronger!