Military Review

Combat aircraft. And-xnumx: is it so good, is it so bad?

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When we talked about the Yak-1, Mig-3 and LaGG-3, many readers recalled this particular aircraft. Say, if I went to the I-180 series, then the alignment would be completely different. And so - undercover schemers ruined a great car and made it possible for all sorts of mediocrity to deliver to our Air Force do not understand what is in the guise of aircraft.


Let's think and reason. As befits intelligent and objective people.

Two mistakes designer Polikarpov


Nikolay Nikolaevich Polikarpov is, of course, a star in our stories.

Combat aircraft. And-xnumx: is it so good, is it so bad?


You can say anything, but while Yakovlev, Lavochkin, Gurevich, Ilyushin were taught to fly their first gliders and airplanes, the Polikarpov fighters closed our skies.

It is a fact, as they say, "scrap". It must not be forgotten. Nor should we forget that Nikolai Nikolayevich Polikarpov, a Russian man, could very well be in 20-s in America who was well fed and promising, along with his teacher, the great Sikorsky.

But it happened like this, and the great Sikorsky continued his work in America, and the great Polikarpov ... However, let us wait until the analysis of a personal matter.

The fact is that our whole galaxy, it was later. And first were Tupolev and Polikarpov. And these two giants under the shadow of their wings allowed them to grow a whole cohort of designers. But that's not the point.



The question is, what was the i-180. And what Polikarpov himself saw on this plane?

1937 year. Benefis, so to speak, Bf-109 in Spain. All Soviet aircraft designers rushed to create a similar plan of aircraft with water-cooled engines.

All but Polikarpov.

The question of why he did this will remain a long question. Most likely, Nikolai Nikolayevich initially decided to bet on more durable air-cooled motors. Well, the king of fighters had the right to do so. And to be right in the end ...

What thought then captured Polikarpov? Improving the flight characteristics of aircraft through the use of double-row star-shaped engines with a large number of cylinders. From 12 to 16.

The idea, as shown by the practice of the Second World War, was good. It was airplanes with two-row "stars" that became the best fighters (and not only) of that war.

Was there such a motor in the USSR? Understandably, no. There was another project. M-85.



The basis of the project of the new motor M-85 was a weak French motor "Mistral-Major" of the firm "Gnome-Rhone". Mistralem was not a motor, and the major was rather arbitrary, since it gave off all 850 horsepower.

The first blunder of Nikolai Nikolayevich was the calculation of precisely this motor. And as soon as the release of M-85 was mastered in Zaporozhye, it was under him that the I-180 was also developed.

Here it is worth understanding that Polikarpov had a reliable and fully developed motor. M-25, aka Wright-Cyclone R-1820-F3, successfully installed in the same years on I-15, I-15bis, I-16 and I-153.



But Polikarpov looked much further. And he saw a perspective that was clearly present. And in subsequent years, the engine line progressed, M-86 (900 hp), M-87 (950 hp), M-88 (1100 hp) appeared. But at the time of the commencement of work on the I-180 there was only a very “raw” M-85 with all the ensuing consequences. And this was the first mistake of Polikarpov.

The error was forced, because the plane was needed both in fact and politically. He was needed both by the country and by Polikarpov personally, because ... because he had reasons for launching this aircraft into the series.

And the second fatal mistake was precisely the haste with which work was done on the I-180. Just a year after the start, the M-87 completely rolled it over, and it would have been possible to build a plane. But alas, it turned out the same flight in 1938 year.



But we will not judge so much, because the war in Spain, where Bf-109 suddenly debuted, and moving from place to place, which fell on the Polikarpov Design Bureau, and quite a large load of design bureau, will also speak for Polikarpov. besides I-180 (WIT-1, WIT-2 and future Su-2).

It is easy to judge after many years ... And Polikarpov had more than enough envious people. And those wishing to press it from the design Olympus all the more.

Flour soviet art


And in 1938, on the basis of the 1937 project of the year, the I-165 fighter with the M-88 engine Polikarpov developed the I-180 project.



It was a plane that was very close in design and layout with an X-16. The large size of the motor entailed an increase in the entire structure, so that the plane was not “ishachok”, but something “thicker”.

To arm the 180 was planned by four ShKAS synchronous machine guns: two to be installed above the engine and two at the root of the wing. In the future, the wing machine guns could easily be replaced by guns. The wing allowed such an operation, it is worth remembering that the I-16 completely allowed such a procedure, and in fact the planes were very similar in proportions.

DL Tomashevich became the leading designer for the new machine.



It should be noted that the motor dances did not pass even the king of fighters. The I-165 project was postponed because for it ... there was no motor! Very new, isn't it?

More precisely, the motor was like, but ... But the existing M-88P was different from the simple M-88, which had a gearbox. And, accordingly, I demanded a screw with a size of at least 3,2 meters under my lower revolutions.

What this threatened fighter, of course. A ragged nose that worsens taxiing, higher (and therefore fragile) landing gear and so on. But with M-88P, it was all not thank God, because the project was postponed.

And they started designing a seemingly similar aircraft based on an I-165, but originally planned for M-88Р. Tomashevich decided to wriggle out of the situation, using a new model of the screw in the project, VISH-23Е, which, according to calculations, was to compensate for the use of the "wrong" motor.

And in the summer of 1938, the construction of an experienced I-180 specimen began. All this is nothing, but in the fall began the assault, caused by the "Messerschmitt" in Spain.

Here you need to understand such a thing: the fighter was put into construction at the experimental plant No. XXUMX in Moscow. Everything seems to be logical, and only proves the importance of the project.

Not really.

And here's the thing: Experimental Plant No. XXUMX was a really skillful and powerful team with an excellent base. But you just have to look at what this plant did! He was in the Tupolev design bureau! And he built all sorts of giants such as "Maxim Gorky", "Motherland", airplanes RD for Chkalov and Gromov, and so on. Class large aircraft. And even gigantic.

And here - here you are a fighter ...



That's all clear, remember that in 1937, Tupolev, Petlyakov, Bartini, Myasishchev and many others fell into the "Tupolev Sharagu", or the NKVD Central Design Bureau-29. The remaining abandoned plant was transferred to the first project that came across, with all the consequences.

And the consequences were. Polikarpov repeatedly reported on the low quality of the aircraft components produced, could not but report. But to do something cardinal was simply not realistic.

And then something happened that should have happened. A “commissioner” from the NKAP was sent to the plant. The man, in my personal opinion, is completely unsuitable for this.

Semyon Ilyich Belyaykin. Member of the Civil War, the military commissar of the divisional school and the head of the political department of the 7 of the Vladimir Rifle Division. He was awarded the Order of the Red Banner, but not for military merit, but in honor of the Red Army 10 anniversary.

From 1931 to June 1938 he worked at the Moscow Aviation Institute, reached the post of director of the institute. And suddenly he was directed at aviation factory, deputy director. Strange, right?

From 23 February 1938 - Head of the 1-th Main Directorate of the People's Commissariat of Defense Industry of the USSR. He oversaw the aircraft industry ...

There is, apparently, a strong desire to curry favor. However, in those days it was normal. Belyaykin began to “press” not only Polikarpov and Tomashevich, but also the entire staff of the plant. The goal, let's say, good: to accelerate the production of the aircraft. What methods acted by the former commissioner, is also clear. As I understand it, the situation at the plant was still ...

But Belyaykin paid dearly for everything. 20 December 1938, he was arrested and eventually rightly declared one of the perpetrators of the death of Chkalov. Sentenced to 15 years in a forced labor camp. He died in custody.

But even the cries and threats of Belyaykin did not help. The plane did not have time to make in the allotted time. The next “gift” was the unavailability of the VISH-23 screw. The manufacturer failed in time. The automatic screw pitch change was not received.

And in this situation began what today is called the "collective farm".

Polikarpov decided to use for the initial stage of testing for the aircraft the propeller VISH-3Е. He was ... let's say, similar in characteristics. But there was no automatic screw pitch change for him, so the screw control was made manual. Management, let's say, was minimal. In fact, the screw was set to take-off mode, and it was possible to slightly change the angle of attack to achieve maximum speed. That's all the adjustment.



Naturally, this immediately entailed a noticeable decrease in the efficiency of the propeller motor group in general and overheating of the motor in particular. Plus, the constant work at higher speeds could not have a positive impact on the resource of the motor.

With overheating of the engine decided to cope by a simple action: they took and removed the engine cooling blinds.

Understand in principle. Polikarpov, who had been pressured by Belyaykin, wanted to carry out all the tests on time, report back, and then, when VISH-23E and the automatic control device appeared at his disposal, return everything back and install the blinds. In principle, it is more than reasonable for such a situation.

But "I blinded him from what was" - this is still not for aviation.

In general, the aircraft that was somehow made up in December (we emphasize) went to flight tests.

Fatal flight


Despite a number of breakdowns and identified defects, the 180 stubbornly walked towards the first flight. And this day has come. And at the same time became the day of the tragedy.

It is still clearly not clear who made the decision to fly. Much says for the fact that it was Chkalov himself. Polikarpov and Tomashevich did not approve the flight list, which actually saved Polikarpov.

In the column "Signature of the person responsible for producing the aircraft," no one ever signed. As follows from this document, the task provided a safe landing even in the event of an engine stop: "... departure without cleaning the chassis, with speed limits, according to the instructions of the chief designer of the plant comrade Polnakpov NN Duration 600-10 min ... "

The task was signed by the leading engineer N. Lazarev, who, in principle, had no right to do this. From this we can conclude that Chkalov himself pressed Lazarev. The reasons that prompted Chkalov to such an act, of course, we will never know, we can only assume that Valery Ivanovich was rooting for the fate of the plane and just wanted to help his design bureau with the plane no matter what.

Well-intentioned ... Chkalov’s intentions were the best, and he was a specialist in “raw” aircraft, but nevertheless, the consequences were dire.



15 December suddenly became cold to -25 degrees. Nevertheless, Chkalov performed a takeoff on an I-180.

He made the first lap over the airfield, but went to the second with a long distance, at a height of about 2000 m, which was a clear violation of the flight task. The landing glide turned out to be steeper than the pilot had originally intended, and it was necessary to slightly tighten the plane by giving gas. Alas, the motor simply died out, and Chkalov sat down among the buildings and structures. Including in the path of the aircraft was the ill-fated transmission tower.

In general, test pilots were killed and the testing machines of other designers. And nothing, the cars were in the series and successfully flew. It is the fate of any tester to walk on the edge of the abyss.

If Polkarpov were not Chkalov as a full-time tester, everything would probably be fine. But the hero of the polar flight, the popular favorite and favorite of Stalin ...



The government commission called the stop of the motor due to the overcooling due to the lack of those frontal blinds as the cause of the disaster. Now there are other opinions, of various kinds, but for me, stopping due to hypothermia in the frosty winter air seems quite obvious.

Causes and consequences


The consequences were the saddest. Belyaykin, plant director No. XXUMX Usachev, head of the Paray plant testing service, deputy Polikarpova Tomashevich (sent to Tupolev’s “sharaga”) and about a dozen other employees who were involved were arrested.

In 1956, all were rehabilitated (Belayikin and Paray - posthumously) after the work of the expert commission chaired by M.M. Gromov.



The most authoritative Mikhail Mikhailovich directly dealt with the causes of the catastrophe, and in his book “On Earth and in Heaven” wrote the following about this:

"TO. E. Voroshilov appointed a commission to investigate the causes of the disaster. I was a member of this commission, its chairman was engineer Alekseev. The opinion of the commission was unanimous: the screw stopped due to the overcooling of the motor. Who is guilty? "Guilty" turned out to be so much that you cannot count ...
The government was also to blame for not issuing directives: the aircraft must be made to the end, and only then can it be tested in the air. Of course, the decision of this commission was not taken into account by Stalin.
It took quite a few years. After the war, me and the engine designer were suddenly called again to explain the cause of death of V.P. Chkalov and identify those responsible.
We again, as then, confirmed our opinion, saying that if we are talking about the perpetrators, then you can only blame the aircraft designer, who did not have time to install a system for controlling the temperature of the engine cooling and allowed the test pilot to take off, especially as the last was Chkalov, who had enough experience to understand the seriousness of the situation and abandon the flight, or fly with the expectation to sit at any moment on the airfield with the motor stopped. ”


But Polikarpov did not give permission for departure. It is a fact. So the tragedy was the result of some kind of partisan, which has a well-known principle: "Winners are not judged." But since there were no winners, everyone was tried.

Even after many years, the death of Chkalov does not give rest to many researchers. There are, of course, stupid and fantastic, there are more balanced. But the version of Gromov, who is more than knowledgeable in flights, is considered to be more realistic.

But in general, Polikarpov got more than that for this flight. It is a shame to see among those who accused George Baidukov and Igor Chkalov, but their opinion, the opinion of close people, can be considered justified.

But if by and large: who on that day could have stopped Chkalov himself, who decided to fly at all costs? Although all I had to do was either not to fly or not to violate the flight mission ... Carefulness — that was what Valery Pavlovich really lacked that day, seriously.

It is believed that the death of Chkalov was a turning point in the fate of Polikarpov. Many, including the already mentioned George Baidukov, said: “It was Chkalov who needed Polikarpov’s planes”.

To be honest: whether stupid or just emotions. It turns out that the "king of the fighter" needed a pilot like Chkalov? Calmer types like Suprun, Gromov, Gallaya were not good at all?

One thing is indisputable: it was precisely the chief pilot, like Chkalov, who, moreover, enjoyed such authority from Himself, was definitely a great help for Polikarpov. Stay Valery Pavlovich alive, for sure there would not have been many misadventures of Polikarp's KB.

Go further, forward, to victory ...


But even the death of Chkalov did not stop work on the aircraft. And it was also normal in those years. True, the second experimental machine was built at another plant - №1. It was there that the Polikarpov Design Bureau was transferred after Tupolev was returned to the “native” plant. More precisely, the overgrown “sharaga” TsKB-29 absorbed plant number XXUMX, and Polikarpov was once again evicted.



Nevertheless, the work went. M-88 was replaced with a less powerful, but seemingly more finished M-87А, and then with M-87Б. And in a more relaxed atmosphere, And-180-2 made the first normal flight of 19 on April, and 1 on May 1939, under the control of S. p. Supruna aircraft participated in the air parade over Red Square.

In the process of testing and-180-2 showed the speed of 540 km / h. Not God knows what, but the prospect was observed. The aircraft was recommended for serial production with the engine M-88, which by that time had passed state tests. To check, they decided to build a third prototype - I-180-3.

5 September 1939. At the completion of state tests And-180-2, test pilot TP Susi died.



It was 53-th flight in a row with the task to reach the "ceiling". With the crash of the plane, too, not everything is clear even today, the reports say that the plane either steeply declined, or corkscrew from a great height. Upon reaching 3000, it went into horizontal flight, flew normally for a while, then entered the tailspin again. At the height of 300, the plane came out of the corkscrew, and then the pilot for some reason left the car, but did not use the parachute.

There were various assumptions about the causes of the disaster, but the true reason remained unclear.

Contrary to popular belief, I-180 continued on its way. Work on the implementation of the plant number XXUMX continued. The whole question is how.

First, the plant number 21 (located in Gorky) had a large order for the I-16. And, admittedly, the plant management was, to put it mildly, not happy with the new aircraft. Moreover, the factory had its own design bureau, in which they created their own aircraft!

This was the version of the same AND-16 performed by MM Pashinin. And at the plant they expected that they would produce “their own” aircraft, in many respects similar to the I-16, which did not cause problems. The I-21 had a number of original solutions, showed good speed on tests - 573 km / h, but it was not stable enough and had a number of other shortcomings. As a result, the series did not go, but the work on the I-180 slowed down considerably.

Things got even worse in 1940, when, instead of MM. Kaganovich Commissar appointed A.I. Shakhurin, and his deputy for science and experimental construction - A.S. Yakovlev.

14 January 1940 of the year Polikarpov and his deputy and lead designer Yangel (yes, the future rocket man) sent a letter to the NKAP: constructors with I-21 translated into I-180 ".

In the end, Polikarpov was heard, and to consider issues related to the release of the I-180, a special commission of the NKAP and the Air Force Directorate chaired by one of the Deputy Commissar, V.P. Balandina.

The commission decided to oblige the plant to release a series of 30 machines within two months, but this did not help at all. All release dates were failed.

It is impossible to say that nobody listened to Polikarpov. Head of the Air Force Research Institute A.I. Filin in a report to the Air Force Directorate wrote:

“I report that the situation with the construction of the military series of the I-180 M-88 aircraft ... is abnormal, the construction of the aircraft is actually delayed indefinitely. I believe that the delay with the release of the military series delays the finishing of the aircraft necessary for the Red Army air force. ”


And only in April, the first three serial I-180C were somehow ready. Again, they were shown in the parade, and it seemed that the light at the end of the tunnel had faded.

Especially since by that time the factory tests of the I-180-3 had already ended. It should be noted that, on the initiative of Polikarpov’s design bureau, the car was somewhat modified, first of all, by reinforcing the armament.

Two 12,7-mm BS machine guns and two 7,62-mm ShKAS were assembled into one battery. Machine guns were placed on a gun carriage, which greatly facilitated the operation (reloading, cleaning, repair).

The aircraft showed very good results: speed at altitude 3 000 m - 575 km / h, climb time 5 000 m - 5,6 min. Test pilot Ulyakhin noted in the reports that the I-180 is very similar in parameters to the I-16, but is more stable and behaves better on turns and landing.

Of course, deficiencies were recorded. Lack of cab light, poor adjustment of the tail wheel cleaning mechanism, poor screw design, poor surface finish. It was believed that surface treatment with varnish should bring in addition 25-30 km / h.

Polikarpov people worked, installed a lantern on the aircraft, designed and manufactured a new propeller, increased the transverse V wing. In this form, the fighter was handed over to state tests at the Scientific-Research Institute of the Air Force, which were generally successful.

But I-180 was waiting for another blow of fate. No need to be a soothsayer to guess who is to blame. Yes, again the motor!

Motor infarction


Numerous complaints of defects and failures led to the fact that M-88 was discontinued! At the same time, flights were banned from all aircraft with this engine, including the I-180. Of course, the engine builders did everything to solve the problems, but Su-2, IL-4, and-180 remained on the ground. It was only at the very end of 1940 of the year (December) that M-88 re-tested, and the ban was lifted. Work resumed.

OKB Polikarpov constantly improved their aircraft. At the beginning of 1941, projects for the new M-88A and M-89 engine were ready. The airplanes registered radio station RSI-4 on permanent rights. According to calculations in KB, the maximum speed of the I-180 with the M-89 motor was to reach 650 km / h.



Looking ahead, it's worth saying that in 1942, the year M-89 was discontinued as an unreliable and underdeveloped engine. They simply dismissed him in favor of the mastered M-88B. Under martial law, in principle, fair.

But at the beginning of 1941, the decision to remove the I-180 from the sky struck like thunder from the sky!

Already far after the war, the People's Commissar of the aviation industry, Shakhurin, after serving his own, after rehabilitation, in his memoirs recalled that the NCAP was really overly enthusiastic about water cooling engines. It is clear that the Messerschmitt flew, and flew well, but this is absolutely no reason to copy everything to the screw.

Although, it is worth admitting that we copied everything.

In general, radial motors for air cooling were considered inappropriate for use. All programs have been minimized. In response to Polikarpov, Deputy People's Commissar AP Yakovlev wrote:
“The resumption of work on the three I-180 aircraft, which were built as a standard for serial production of Plant No. XXUMX, cannot be allowed. Further work on the fine-tuning and testing of these aircraft is impractical because of the existing decision on the plant's program for the 21 year. Currently, all attention should be paid to the implementation of the new task received by the plant. "


And at the factory number XXUMX began to master the production of LaGG-21. Airplane with a completely different technology. I note that the plant number 3, which for a year could not squeeze out 21 I-10, already in a month “drove” LaGG-180 as if nothing had happened.

Harm or envy?


It is hard to say. I think that an 180 would in any case be a “trial balloon,” followed by an 185, a more promising aircraft. And here the technological chain of I-16 - I-180 - I-185 was traced, the main value of which was the presence of continuity in production.

We will talk about the 185 in the next article, the plane is worthy of a separate discussion. At the turn of 1940, I-185 was already ready, he waited, waited for his engine.

Let's reason. If I-180 with a motor in 1100 hp showed a speed of about 600 km / h, then for a more perfect in terms of aerodynamics and 185, and even with a motor in 1700-1900 hp The estimated speed of the order of 700 km / h was quite real.

By the way, for the Germans this is 1945 year. If “Focke-Wulf” had a motor in the 2200-2500 hp, it would be a terrible car ...

If the I-180 would go into the series, then the MiG-1, LaGG-3, Yak-1 would not be needed. Or needed, but not in such quantities. MiG-3 was not a competitor in terms of armaments, LaGG-3 was inferior in LTX, Yak-1 ...

With "Yak" in general, everything was sad. I spoke about this quite specifically in the material on this aircraft. 7 more than a thousand changes in the design - this is serious.

Let's look, look into all eyes!

LaGG-3. The most successful of the triad, in my opinion (La-5 and La-7 confirmation of this), but expensive to produce because of the delta-wood and with a very weak engine.

But Gorbunov was the head of the 4 department at the First General Directorate of the NKAP. It is clear that it is not Yakovlev, but still. Lavochkin and Gudkov - his subordinates, who oversaw the aircraft factories.

Probably, here you can find the answer to the question why LaGG-3 began to be driven even at five factories, but they left none for Polikarpov. The designer’s brother, Sergey Petrovich Gorbunov, (1902 — 1933) was one of the organizers of the Soviet aircraft industry, the director of the largest aircraft building plant in Europe, No. 22 in Fili.

MiG-3. A good plane, but a perfect "iron" at low altitudes. Attempts to facilitate the aircraft led to the fact that weapons became the weakest of all.

But Artem Mikoyan was the younger brother of Anastas Mikoyan himself. No comments.

Yak-xnumx. The most undetected of all aircraft. Also, by the way, who took the life of test pilots to the sky. And if the state tests of MiG and LaGGa were more or less normal, then with the Yak-1 the situation was much more complicated.

But Yakovlev was the Deputy Commissar of AP Shakhurin.

Coincidence? I do not know. Today it is very difficult to judge. But it is difficult to comment, especially knowing that Polikarpov did not have anything behind him, except for what he had. And absolutely had no support.

Everything's possible. Launched into a series of aircraft for many - recognition, order, immunity (possibly). But first of all - the opportunity to live and work. And others (like Polikarpov) could receive a pardon. You are a fighter country, it is for you - 10 is conditionally instead of real years.

As an example, it is worth giving all the same Yak-1. The plane claimed the life of Yulian Piontkovsky, test pilot of the Yakovlev Design Bureau, but the second flight copy (I-26-2), which began flying before the first one crashed and had the same defects. on state tests. And after three days, the Air Force Research Institute recognized the car that passed the state tests.

Questions? Comments? So I do not. However, we have already talked about the Soviet triad of the beginning of 40's. There are more than enough strange moments and dark spots on reputations.

I basically have no questions left. Could Polikarpov resist the cohort of "young and zealous", rushing upward designers?

Not of proletarian origin, a pupil of Sikorsky who emigrated, with a suspended sentence and the prospect of playing sharaga at any moment?

So I think I could not. Yes, and confront such people. With such, as they would say now, "garters".

Polikarpov could only design airplanes and build them if he was allowed to. Support NCA? Objectivity? Definitely not.



At least, the removal from serial production six months before the war I-180 and launch instead of it at the plant number XXUMX was inferior to him in many respects LaGG-21 I would not call it an act in favor of the state.

And today it becomes clear why three models began to be produced at once. Who can, so to speak. It is clear that MiG and LaGG were a kind of safety net for the completely unsuccessful Yak.

Again, why was it necessary to start collecting LaGGi at five plants, depriving Polikarpov of a single plant?

I will say a seditious thing. I can imagine how happy Yakovlev, Gorbunov and Mikoyan were when Polikarpov lost his shield, Chkalov. It really was a gift of fate ...

It is very difficult to say how good the i-180 could be. Very difficult. But given that the royal titles just do not give, I think that the plane could be no worse than the triad. Perhaps - better.

But there is another moment. If the comrades (who are sometimes worse than the masters), the designers would not be in such a hurry to drown Polikarpov, at the time of 22.06.1941 in the Red Army Air Force there could be such a number of modern and powerful fighters that an instant blitzkrieg might not have happened.

But this is an argument solely in favor of the losers. But we will discuss this topic in a conversation about the 185.

Sources:
Shavrov V.B. The history of aircraft structures in the USSR 1938-1950.
Maslov M. Fighters I-180 and I-185.
Author:
Photos used:
airwar.ru
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  1. alekc73
    alekc73 17 May 2019 18: 23
    +8
    Unfair competition. That's what it's called. I-185 is generally a song. Polikarpov needed a "push" - Chkalov. Who is close to Stalin. After his death, such a person was not found. If Chkalov I-180 remained alive and the subsequent I-185 was a serial aircraft. Plants would be immediately found. The necessary engines were brought to a series. (M-71).
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 17 May 2019 18: 53
      +6
      Quote: alekc73
      Factories would immediately be found. The necessary motors were brought to the series. (M-71).

      Well, yes, yes ... when they brought the M-82 to mind, remember? Officially - in 1942. But at the same time, in 1943, he still ate candles as if to himself.
      And this despite the fact that the motor needed it like bread like air.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 17 May 2019 21: 26
        +4
        The engine is our bottleneck.
        1. lucul
          lucul 17 May 2019 22: 00
          -2
          The engine is our bottleneck

          Because the development of motors with us is a taboo.
          They will harm in every possible way ...
      2. goose
        goose 3 June 2019 12: 49
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        he ate the candles anyway, as if into himself.

        I didn’t quite eat, the replacement of candles was mandatory after almost every departure, but some of them were reused. The problem was that the engine mirror was too smooth, without honing, which worsened the wettability of the cylinder walls, causing seizures, stepped production. Particles of metal fell on the candles and they failed part of them - forever.
        Some of the candles were ruined by the temperature regime, for which they were not originally designed (frequent use of afterburner).
        Well, manufacturing defects. The Soviet government certainly saw the ridiculous mistakes of the tsarist Government, which called for military service of people of key value for production and construction, and knew about them. But over the course of 14 years, a layer of qualified administrators and logisticians has not yet been fully formed in the USSR; during the war. Therefore, many valuable specialists were called to the front.
        At the beginning of the 40s, young people aged 21-22 already usually had qualifications at the 5th level, i.e. were part of the most popular industry interlayer.
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 17 May 2019 21: 38
      0
      By the way, there was such a fact. After the end of hostilities in 1945, it was discovered that the losses of yaks in the troops did not decrease! It turned out that the planes were falling apart in the air due to a flimsy design ...
      1. Gamdlislyam
        Gamdlislyam 18 May 2019 07: 19
        +8
        Quote: Pilat2009
        By the way, there was such a fact. After the end of hostilities in 1945, it was discovered that the losses of yaks in the troops did not decrease! It turned out that the planes were falling apart in the air due to a flimsy design ...

        Dear colleague Pilat2009 (Mikhail), could you give these facts in figures, or links? And then, in fact, they turn out to be only fakes, which you call facts. In fact, after the end of the war, within a year, over 6 thousand military-built aircraft were decommissioned in the Red Army Air Force. These were, so unloved by you, the planes of the designers Yakovlev, as well as Lavochkin, Ilyushin, i.e. the most massive during the Second World War. Judging by your statement, they were all "flimsy construction".
        1. KERMET
          KERMET 18 May 2019 08: 28
          +2
          Let’s say, airplanes of mixed design, that is, airplanes using wood, and their life cycle is short, unless of course they are in hangar storage, which, as you know, was not practiced in our country
        2. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 18 May 2019 16: 27
          -1
          Quote: Gamdlislyam
          but could you give these facts in figures, or links?

          M. Solonin - "At Peacefully Sleeping Airfields"
          http://www.urantia-s.com/library/solonin/peace_sleep/23 где-то здесь
          1. Gamdlislyam
            Gamdlislyam 18 May 2019 19: 16
            +4
            Quote: Pilat2009
            M. Solonin - "At Peacefully Sleeping Airfields"

            Thanks to my colleague Pilat2009 (Mikhail). I read the book as soon as it appeared on the shelves (the only one of a huge number of Corned beef opuses), and was puzzled. It seems to be written as a monograph on a historical theme, but when trying to check the sources, a rather curious thing turned out. Solonin masterly manipulates figures and facts from books by other authors, magazine and newspaper articles. Doesn't work in archives. The main authority for him on the Second World War is the traitor Rezun (Solonin not only does not hide this, but directly, in an interview with the radio station Echo of Moscow, said).
            For myself, I determined that Solonin is a liberal (pro-Western) journalist. He is not a historian, and therefore I am not interested.
      2. Parabelum
        Parabelum 20 May 2019 09: 23
        0
        An interesting fact, at the end of hostilities, the loss of aircraft remained the same, it turned out that the aircraft were falling apart in the air. Those. during the hostilities, enemy fighters didn’t shoot down yaks, they themselves fell apart in the air, I understand correctly? Or did the planes still shoot down during the fighting, and they began to fall apart exactly after the end of hostilities, and even in the amount of combat losses? Don't you think that there is some logical problem in this?
    3. kapitan281271
      kapitan281271 18 May 2019 19: 15
      +1
      Quote: alekc73
      Polikarpov needed a "pusher" - Chkalov. Who is close to Stalin. After his death, such a person was not found. If Chkalov had survived

      Pushed, Pyotr Stefanovsky, on the South-Western Front, even tested 4 vehicles in real combat situations (according to the results, a collective letter was sent to Stalin asking him to immediately do everything necessary to start the machine in series), there was no argument, 82 Shvetsovsky, he was still higher than the head of all the cars of that time, the idea was expressed on the site that remaking the I-185 on the ASH-82 was a HUGE problem, of course I was a little surprised, it turns out that LAGG-3 with a water-cooled motor was easier to redo than the 185th immediately developed under the air vent. STAR, the reason for the scum who was afraid of competition with Polikarpov, and they did not care that real people were dying on their absolutely mediocre cars !!!!!
      1. goose
        goose 3 June 2019 12: 58
        0
        Quote: kapitan281271
        Pushed, Pyotr Stefanovsky, on the South-Western Front, even tested 4 vehicles in real combat situations (according to the results, a collective letter was sent to Stalin asking him to immediately do everything necessary to start the machine in series), there was no argument, 82 Shvetsovsky, he was still higher than the head of all the cars of that time, the idea was expressed on the site that remaking the I-185 on the ASH-82 was a HUGE problem, of course I was a little surprised, it turns out that LAGG-3 with a water-cooled motor was easier to redo than the 185th immediately developed under the air vent

        Polikarpov and Sukhoi were the only aircraft designers at the end of 39-40 years who turned to engine engineers for help in adjusting the engine cooling when nosing it. The rest were not allowed. Accordingly, therefore, then Yakovlev ordered the materials on nosing the M-82 to be transferred to other design bureaus, because everyone had a problem with nosing the M-82. To be fair, we had too small groups of people working on each model of the aircraft, in comparison with the USA, Great Britain or Germany, so development was stable either took a long time or was "raw". Later, Stalin, having seen enough of this zoo, at the suggestion of industrialists, introduced a system of competition for 2-3 designs and then one model in production. At the same time, KB began to finance equally, regardless of how many structures fly
    4. Ruger-para
      Ruger-para 5 June 2019 13: 09
      0
      M-71 never brought ASh 82 FN and then it was supplied nishtyak. 20-25 percent of the usual 82 carburetor engines. Too complicated, expensive and unreliable. M 71 remained a "serial" dream
  2. mark1
    mark1 17 May 2019 18: 33
    +2
    Imagine how rejoiced Yakovlev, Gorbunov and Mikoyan, when Polikarpov lost his shield - Chkalov.

    Aha - they were in jiuz for a week and beat the tap dance even in their sleep.
    Mikoyan and in the design bureau that separate did not even think to stand out ... Yes, and Yakovlev has not yet begun to make his "vile" I-26
    Roman provocateur, trying to push all their foreheads. Well now ... now ...
  3. mz
    mz 17 May 2019 18: 38
    +7
    Improving the flight characteristics of aircraft by using double-row star-shaped motors with a large number of cylinders. 12 to 16
    Correct: a radial motor in one section always has an odd number of cylinders - 5; 7; 9. Such a motor, with alternating cycles "after one", works much more evenly than with an even number of cylinders. Accordingly, double stars have 14 or 18 cylinders. It makes sense to make a double star of 10 (2x5) cylinders only with severe restrictions on the size of the motor.
  4. Sibiriya
    Sibiriya 17 May 2019 18: 45
    +2

    I recommend a very informative video, and the channel is not bad. There's a lot about aviation from people doing it professionally.
  5. lucul
    lucul 17 May 2019 19: 01
    +2
    But there is another moment. If the comrades (who are sometimes worse than the masters), the designers would not be in such a hurry to drown Polikarpov, at the time of 22.06.1941 in the Red Army Air Force there could be such a number of modern and powerful fighters that an instant blitzkrieg might not have happened.

    And there is.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 17 May 2019 19: 48
      +2
      Quote: lucul
      And there is.

      Well, yes ... it’s only business to bring the motor and find aluminum. It's a nonsense ... and nothing that they tried to buy aluminum even from the Germans before the war. And with the engines there was such an ambush that the discontinuation of the adopted engine due to design flaws was not considered out of the ordinary - despite the fact that without this engine the release of the latest long-range bomber and close bomber was disrupted.
      1. lucul
        lucul 17 May 2019 20: 05
        0
        Well, yes ... it’s only business to bring the motor and find aluminum. It's a nonsense ... and nothing that they tried to buy aluminum even from the Germans before the war.

        Let me remind you that the B-2 tank engine produced over 60 units.
        And he was from dural. So we produced aluminum, and it’s another matter that it’s not in the volume that a dynamically developing industry required.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 18 May 2019 00: 47
          +1
          Quote: lucul
          Let me remind you that the B-2 tank engine produced over 60 units.
          And he was from duralumin.

          You're wrong. But the production of motors goes silumin is also an aluminum alloy, but not duralumin.
          "Silumin is an alloy based on aluminum and silicon. Most, namely about 90%, of the alloy is aluminum, the rest is silicon. The production of silumin is very similar to the production of duralumin, but the second also includes copper, magnesium and manganese ... ..
          It should be noted that the physical properties directly depend on the amount of impurities. These include magnesium and manganese, which are purposefully added. Or zinc, calcium and iron, which are simply not disposed of in production. Therefore, the quality of silumin may differ even with the same marking - it depends on the production technology and the good faith of the manufacturer. "Http://stankiexpert.ru/spravochnik/materialovedenie/silumin.html
          1. KERMET
            KERMET 18 May 2019 08: 41
            +3
            He is not mistaken, the comment was about what was not aluminum, in silumine as you yourself said 90%
            1. goose
              goose 3 June 2019 13: 07
              0
              Quote: KERMET
              He is not mistaken, the comment was about the fact that there was no aluminum, in silumin, as you yourself said 90%

              The vast majority of silumin in tanks was replaced by cast iron. It was considered that relief was not relevant for the tank. At the same time, vibration decreased.
      2. Captain Pushkin
        Captain Pushkin 17 May 2019 20: 26
        +3
        I-185 with M-82 passed military tests when the La-5 had not yet flown.
        1. KERMET
          KERMET 18 May 2019 08: 43
          +2
          Well, probably still not military test?
          1. Alex
            Alex 19 May 2019 23: 53
            0
            You are right, not military, but factory
      3. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 18 May 2019 16: 41
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Well, yes ... it’s only business to bring the motor and find aluminum.

        For the entire time of the war 54 fighters of all types were fired (from MiG-606 to La-3).

        Total total need for duralumin is 55 thousand tons. Is it a lot or a little? What definition should be used in this case: “as many as 55 thousand tons” or “only 55 thousand tons”?
        Until very recently, non-ferrous metal production in the Soviet Union was classified. Modern researchers estimate the production of aluminum in 1941-1945 in the range from 250 to 330 thousand tons. More clarity with allied supplies.
        From North America (USA plus Canada), 290 thousand tons were delivered to the USSR, and even England, which was suffocating from a shortage of raw materials, planted “miserable” 35 thousand tons. Total: at least 575 thousand tons of aluminum. Least. Ana, all fighters - if you make them from duralumin, in the image of Messer, Sleep, Mustang - you need only 55 thousand tons.
        Taking the DB-Zf bomber for “three fighters” and Pe-2 for “two fighters” (with such a gap between the resource and the need, the calculation accuracy does not matter anymore), we get another 34 “conditional fighters”, that is, 648 thousand tons of aluminum.
        At the same time, mind you, we have never asked the question of whether it was necessary to make as many as 55 thousand fighter aircraft, most of which crumbled in the air so quickly that “pilots, as a rule, did not even have time to throw themselves on parachutes "...
        And one more small example to illustrate how much duralumin was in the USSR.
        Shakhurin in his memoirs in passing, in one paragraph, recalls the following case:
        “Once I am informed that 12 thousand tons of duralumin are unloaded near one of the Siberian plants. It turned out that the cargo arrived at the place, and from there it was shipped to the nearest factory without our knowledge ... It was necessary to urgently transfer these "excesses" to all those in need.

        But, a joke to say, urgently transport 12 thousand tons of duralumin to different ends of the country!

        Workers loaded aluminum after school hours ... Local party and Soviet organizations helped ... "

        Here it is. 12 thousand tons of duralumin leaf were brought to Siberia and didn’t even immediately realize it. But this amount could more than be enough for the production of 9918 all-metal fighters - just as many “oilcloths” were released in 1942 ...

        The reason for abandoning civilized technology is extremely simple: His Majesty the Plan.
  6. ABM
    ABM 17 May 2019 19: 06
    +1
    so there was no engine !!! did not have! They sent nonsense to Polikarpov for testing - she worked for five hours! no one would ever launch such a series — they would immediately fall into the category of traitors to the motherland!
    1. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 18 May 2019 07: 41
      0
      Quote: ABM
      so there was no engine !!! did not have! They sent nonsense to Polikarpov for testing - she worked for five hours! no one would ever launch such a series — they would immediately fall into the category of traitors to the motherland!

      But those nadozh - launched before the war. Serial production of M-82 engines began at the factory number 19 in accordance with the Decisions SNK No. 1238-517 of May 9 and No. 1246-520 of May 10, 1941. By the order of the NKAP No. 438 of May 13, 1941, signed by A.I. Shakhurin, A.I. Mikoyan, Chief Designers (Plant No. 1), N. N. Polikarpov (Plant No. 51), P. Sukhoi (Plant No. 135 ) and Yakovlev A.S. (plant No. 115) was instructed to ensure the installation of the M-82 motor in their aircraft with a presentation for testing on July 1, 1941. Somewhat later, the chief designer of plant No. 301 M. Gudkov and the chief designer of factory No. 21 S. Lavochkin received the same task.
      Another thing is that the M-82 engine was able to reach acceptable performance only in the middle of 1942, and they completely got rid of childhood diseases only after the war.
      1. KERMET
        KERMET 18 May 2019 08: 48
        +3
        Another thing is that the M-82 engine was able to bring to acceptable performance only in the middle of 1942, and completely got rid of childhood diseases only after the war

        The funny thing is that the same thing can be said about the M-71 (except that nobody especially brought it during the war ..)
  7. REZMovec
    REZMovec 17 May 2019 19: 11
    +2
    Quote: mark1
    Imagine how rejoiced Yakovlev, Gorbunov and Mikoyan, when Polikarpov lost his shield - Chkalov.

    Aha - they were in jiuz for a week and beat the tap dance even in their sleep.
    Mikoyan and in the design bureau that separate did not even think to stand out ... Yes, and Yakovlev has not yet begun to make his "vile" I-26
    Roman provocateur, trying to push all their foreheads. Well now ... now ...

    Everything is correct Roman writes ... Nothing has changed since then - we look at the situation in the aircraft industry now - everything repeats ... There is an inaccuracy in one place - Valery Ivanovich instead of Valery Pavlovich, it would be necessary to fix it - it hurts the eye.
  8. ABM
    ABM 17 May 2019 19: 12
    +1
    Quote: ABM
    so there was no engine !!! did not have! They sent nonsense to Polikarpov for testing - she worked for five hours! no one would ever launch such a series — they would immediately fall into the category of traitors to the motherland!

    in 1943 with the M82 engine had no advantages compared to the LA-5
    1. ABM
      ABM 17 May 2019 19: 15
      -2
      Normal takeoff weight: 3735 kg
      Maximum takeoff weight: 3825 kg
      1. ABM
        ABM 17 May 2019 19: 19
        -1
        LA-5 take-off weight 3200-3168 kg with the same engine
        1. KERMET
          KERMET 18 May 2019 09: 04
          +1
          I-185 with the same engine weighed in a maximum take-off weight of 3418 kg, with a normal-3328 kg
          La-5 - 3360kg
    2. KERMET
      KERMET 18 May 2019 08: 52
      +2
      Yeah, if, according to the principle of Joseph Vissarionych, only aircraft speeds are compared, forgetting that the I-185 carried three guns, it lifted 500kg of bomb load and was XNUMX times bigger in range, and it had no advantages winked
      1. ABM
        ABM 21 May 2019 03: 17
        -1
        it’s not worth comparing: a production La-5 aircraft with an experienced I-185! if Lavochkin had so much duralumin, his La-5 would also weigh less
        1. su25
          su25 24 June 2019 22: 26
          0
          Well, unlike Lavochkin, Polikarpov did not make an outright "polished piano" from his experimental aircraft. Therefore, in the series of flight characteristics of the "king of fighters" aircraft were closer to the experimental ones.
      2. ABM
        ABM 21 May 2019 03: 20
        0
        with all-metal La-9 then you need to compare
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. KERMET
          KERMET 21 May 2019 08: 40
          +1
          And do you propose to compare a mixed-design aircraft with an all-metal, and even post-war era?! ...
          You in vain expect some miracles from the use of duralumin - look at the weight of the empty La-7 and La-9 you will not see much difference, but here the internal volume of the use of duralumin increases, which was realized by increasing fuel. But the same Polikarpov claimed that there is a reserve for reducing the mass of I-185 by 200-300 kg (I won’t tell you right now)
  9. knn54
    knn54 17 May 2019 19: 22
    +3
    And no matter how many lives of ELITE pilots who shot down German aces on "donkeys" could be saved.
    1. lucul
      lucul 17 May 2019 20: 21
      +1
      And no matter how many lives of ELITE pilots who shot down German aces on "donkeys" could be saved.

      And many pilots, after the war they said so - eh ... I don’t add a little speed to 41g and it would be different.
      And the I-185 is still the same Ishachok (with excessive controllability) and at a speed of 600 km / h.
      1. KERMET
        KERMET 18 May 2019 09: 06
        0
        Well, he no longer had excessive controllability, if only vertical
        1. lucul
          lucul 18 May 2019 09: 08
          -1
          Well, he no longer had excessive controllability, if only vertical

          What was the angular roll speed on the I-16? )))
          1. KERMET
            KERMET 18 May 2019 10: 00
            0
            And what about the I-185? well so for comparison
            1. lucul
              lucul 18 May 2019 10: 06
              0
              well so for comparison

              180g / s was the angular roll speed on the I-16.
              There is no data on I-185, but what the pilots wrote - the plane is very similar in control to I-16, suggests that it is no worse than the Fokke-Wulf - it has 160 g / sec.
              140-150g / s for Mustang and La-5.
              90gr / s on Spitfire and Japanese Zero.
              I just remind you that before flying a turn, he must first roll the plane ....
              1. KERMET
                KERMET 18 May 2019 10: 24
                +2
                Well, under the "excessive controllability" I just imagined Ishachk's "excessive agility", the bend on it was very unstable, pulled it over, fell off. but the I-185 - just for inexperienced pilots is good - it is stable on bends both at low and high speeds, it does not have sharp breaks
                1. lucul
                  lucul 18 May 2019 10: 29
                  -1
                  well, under "excessive controllability" I just presented Ishachka's "excessive agility"

                  The I-185 was designed at a speed of 400 - 600 km / h, and at these speeds such maneuverability is completely useless - 3G overloads already occur at 350 km / h (with a bend).
                  That is why the I-16 is designed at a speed of 200-350km / h.
                  1. KERMET
                    KERMET 18 May 2019 11: 12
                    +2
                    That is why the I-16 is designed at a speed of 200-350km / h.

                    I-16 was designed for engines of the early 30s, the latest modifications with the M-62 and M-63 developed 450 km / h.
  10. KERMET
    KERMET 17 May 2019 19: 23
    +2
    The first blunder of Nikolai Nikolayevich was the calculation of precisely this motor. And as soon as the release of M-85 was mastered in Zaporozhye, it was under him that the I-180 was also developed.

    Well, all the same, it was the I-180 that began to be designed for the M-88. November 7, 1937 Polikarpov receives a document representing the technical data of new and promising aircraft engines, the timing of their availability and delivery to aircraft developers, from where he chose the M-88 for his new project.
    1. ABM
      ABM 17 May 2019 19: 27
      0
      here! therefore, not everyone just left for Kolyma! in fact, he was offered several types of engines under the I-180 and I-185 - not one went into the series!
  11. KERMET
    KERMET 17 May 2019 20: 21
    +2
    More precisely, the motor was like, but ... But the existing M-88P was different from the simple M-88, which had a gearbox. And, accordingly, I demanded a screw with a size of at least 3,2 meters under my lower revolutions.

    What this threatened fighter, of course. A ragged nose that worsens taxiing, higher (and therefore fragile) landing gear and so on. But with M-88P, it was all not thank God, because the project was postponed.

    And they started designing a seemingly similar aircraft based on an I-165, but originally planned for M-88Р. Tomashevich decided to wriggle out of the situation, using a new model of the screw in the project, VISH-23Е, which, according to calculations, was to compensate for the use of the "wrong" motor.

    By the way, the whole joke with Sylvansky happened just because of this - the screw under the M-88P was just too big - it clung to the ground, the decision to stupidly saw off the ends of the screw with a hacksaw led to the aircraft lacking traction.
    VISH-23E and VISH-3E in diameter were slightly smaller - 3 meters.
    " According to the plan, the M-88 engine was originally created for bombers, so the gearbox designed for it was designed to rotate screws of a relatively large diameter - 3,2-3,5 m. Discrepancy between the activities of the 18th (motor) and 1st (aviation) commanders NKOP led to the fact that the design of the gearless motor M-88 was not included in the plan of plant No. 29 in a timely manner. In turn, plant No. 29 was difficult to test two versions of the motor at the same time and, naturally, did not have the desire and ability to build the required one in the shortest possible time engine.
    Gearless M-88b / r (or M-88BR), gearless, right (BRP) and left (BRL) rotation, 1000/1090 hp (on assignment 1000/1100 hp), weight 637,2 kg (on assignment 618 kg). The first prototypes were made in March 1939. Flight tests were conducted on the OKO-6 fighter in December 1939. This engine satisfactorily passed joint tests in March - April 1940, but was not mass-produced.
    " In the autumn of 1939, it became clear that the direct drive motor M-88BL, on which Polikarpov had high hopes, was unreliable. On October 3, 1939, Nikolai Nikolaevich sent a letter to the head of the First Main Directorate of the NKAP Lukin: “We bring to your attention that the M88 motor No. 88041 BRL installed on Comrade’s plane Kocherigina, on October 2, a / g jammed in flight and the pilot made an emergency landing. Due to the fact that we received from the factory No. 29 simultaneously with the specified motor the second M88 engine No. 88043 and was installed on the I-180 aircraft, we ask for your decision whether it can be jammed in flight and if it can be operated on an experimental aircraft. At the same time, we bring to your attention that numerous cases of jamming of the M88 motor on an airplane of Comrade. Kocherigina and comrade Ilyushin does not give us confidence in the M88 engine mounted on the I-180 (3 instance) and that stopping the M88 motor on such a high-speed aircraft as the I-180 aircraft, in a decisive number of cases, can lead to disaster. We ask for your decision on this issue ”[44].

    As a result, the I-180 E-3, like the first production aircraft, decided to equip the M-88R gear motors.
    "
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. PilotS37
      PilotS37 18 May 2019 10: 43
      +5
      Yeah! That is, denunciations of Soviet people exclusively Germans from the Gestapo scribbled ...
      And the NKVD did not use torture in those days ...
      You have seen enough, colleague, "Fighters" ...
  13. rayruav
    rayruav 17 May 2019 20: 31
    0
    all the cars suffered from imperfection of the engines of the air force application for high speeds for that time unattainable in the end there were only VK-105 and m-82 and their modifications for the whole war
  14. 2112vda
    2112vda 17 May 2019 20: 38
    +2
    Unfortunately, the history of piston aircraft engines is even worse nowadays. They simply do not exist, I mean Russian-made. A certain monopolist has "emerged" who has practically crushed the entire planned production of aviation piston engines. Again, the old "rake races" begin, that is, another attempt to adapt an automobile engine for aviation. In the 30s of the last century, this was already passed. "Universalists" are ineradicable creatures, they want to make everything universal. So please be patient and we will watch the unfolding of the next "battle" for the domestic piston aircraft engine. History moves in a spiral.
  15. Revolver
    Revolver 17 May 2019 20: 39
    +2
    I don't know about the I-180, but the I-185 required a lot of aluminum. Not even just a lot, but a LOT. And where was it to be found, especially in the interval between the seizure of Ukraine by the Germans, where the lion's share of the Soviet aluminum industry was located (it was for it that the DneproGES was built), and the establishment of aluminum supplies under Lend-Lease? That is why they produced "rus-plywood" LaGG and La-5, Yak-1, Yak-7, and Yak-9. When there was more aluminum, Lavochkin made a partially metal La-7 with parameters not much, if at all, worse than the I-185, and the all-metal La-9 even surpassed it. And Yakovlev put into production the all-metal Yak-3 (here's an explanation for why he went into the series later than the higher serial numbers Yak-7 and Yak-9), and some consider the Yak-3 the best fighter of those years, in particular the French (not remember the name), who flew both on it and on the "Mustang". And in 1945, a certain Willie Messerschmitt, out of poverty and despair, in all seriousness designed an all-wood wing for the next version of the Bf-109, and only the capture by the Americans of himself and his production base prevented the start of production of this squalor, which would fly like an iron. And the Heinkel He-162 was also made of wood, because the German aluminum industry was thoroughly bombed by that time, and if it were metal, but in marketable quantities, both the Allies and the USSR Air Force would have sour, this machine had a potential even higher than Me -262. And the Horten Ho IX, as it was, made of steel and wood, flew better than the Me-262, imagine what it could be with an aluminum wing and a power pack.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 17 May 2019 21: 05
      +4
      That is why it is impossible to consider the state of aircraft construction and aircraft construction in isolation from a consideration of the state of industry as a whole. A plane is the tip of the iceberg. And below is the whole industry, starting from the ferrous and non-ferrous metallurgy, the chemical industry and ending with optics and precision instrumentation. And no matter what super-superlative design an aircraft designer develops, in reality its level will be exactly what the industrial base allows.
      But here for articles of this kind, there are no applicants yet.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 17 May 2019 23: 27
        +2
        And they will not be the next 100 -150 years.
    2. Snakebyte
      Snakebyte 17 May 2019 22: 18
      +2
      Quote: Nagan
      That is why they produced "rus-plywood" LaGG and La-5, Yak-1, Yak-7, and Yak-9. When there was more aluminum, Lavochkin made a partially metal La-7 with parameters not much, if at all, worse than the I-185, and the all-metal La-9 even surpassed it. And Yakovlev put into production the all-metal Yak-3 (here's an explanation for why he went into the series later than the higher serial numbers Yak-7 and Yak-9), and some consider the Yak-3 the best fighter of those years, in particular the French (not remember the name), who flew both on it and on the "Mustang".

      The Yak-3 of 1944 is the same wooden as the Yak-1; it has no similarity in design with the all-metal I-30 (which was also called the Yak-3). And is it okay that Yakovlev was designing an all-metal fighter when there was "nowhere to take aluminum"? In 1940, none of the designers could have foreseen the disaster of 1941.
    3. Amurets
      Amurets 18 May 2019 01: 08
      0
      Quote: Nagan
      and some consider the Yak-3 to be the best fighter of those years, in particular the Frenchman (I do not remember the name), who flew both on it and on the "Mustang".
      At the end of the Second World War, in the 303rd division of the Soviet Air Force, the legendary Normandie-Niemen regiment fought on the Yak-3, and in 1945 the regiment returned to France on 40 planes received as a gift. These were ordinary production vehicles and the French, who had a motley fleet of their Air Force after WWII, had something to compare with.
      1. ABM
        ABM 18 May 2019 05: 47
        +5
        they compared, in 1946 the regiment decided to rearm the regiment with the F6F Hellcat and the R-47 Thunderbolt
        1. sibiryouk
          sibiryouk 18 May 2019 17: 42
          +1
          they compared, in 1946 the regiment decided to rearm the regiment with the F6F Hellcat and the Rip 47 R-Thunderbolt. This is normal, where the French had to take spare parts for the Yakam, ammunition for the gun and machine gun. They were a Western country, supplying the United States!
    4. su25
      su25 24 June 2019 22: 39
      0
      How much aluminum is "too much"? More than it took for 11 thousand all-metal Pe-2? And on all "rus-plywood" hoods, rudders and tail frames were made of duralumin - so there is no smell of total economy here. By the way, before the war, Yakovlev released the all-metal I-30, which, with three-gun armament, had no better performance characteristics than the I-26. So not everything depends on the metal.
  16. vladcub
    vladcub 17 May 2019 21: 43
    -2
    I’ve read a long time ago, it seems from Yakovlev that the majority in the government and the NKAP were against Polikarpov, but he was saved by the stubbornness of Stalin. Yakovlev spoke differently about Stalin in different publications.
    Regarding the I-180 and the death of Chkalov. There is a lot of turbidity, some authors blame Beria for everything. As you know, Stalin proposed Chkalov to head the NKVD, but Chkalov refused: they say we’ll hand over the plane, and then. Beria, of course, knew about this treaty and knew that Stalin knew how to persuade and he would have to leave his post. There is a version, but there is another version: German intelligence was well informed about the capabilities of I18 and accordingly worked
  17. Snakebyte
    Snakebyte 17 May 2019 22: 27
    +6
    Author, do not write about airplanes anymore.
    At the end of the article, the source is indicated, and the article provides information that directly contradicts this source.
    So many mistakes that everyone makes no sense to comment.
    First:
    The question of why he did this will remain a long question. Most likely, Nikolai Nikolayevich initially decided to bet on more durable air-cooled motors. Well, the king of fighters had the right to do so. And to be right in the end ...

    And the official assignment from the Air Force for the "high-speed fighter with an air-cooled engine" has nothing to do with it?
    Second:
    The first blunder of Nikolai Nikolayevich was the calculation of precisely this motor. And as soon as the release of M-85 was mastered in Zaporozhye, it was under him that the I-180 was also developed.
    M-85 is not something that was created, it has already stopped producing in 1937. Development specifically I-180 was already under M-88.
    These facts are indicated in the sources mentioned in the article!
    And further in the same spirit.
  18. hohol95
    hohol95 17 May 2019 23: 18
    +2

    If only, if only ...
    The USSR did not get from RI a similar economy that was in the USA ...
  19. iouris
    iouris 17 May 2019 23: 55
    -1
    Piston engines have not yet learned how to do it.
  20. wooja
    wooja 18 May 2019 05: 47
    0
    yes, provocatively, but essentially true ..., cuts and kickbacks have always existed ... they don’t talk about this, but the USSR industrial oligarchy has been replaced by the financial RF, patriots can cry, anti-Soviets jump for joy, and realists ask a question - what actually changed from the Stalin era ....?
    1. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 18 May 2019 08: 04
      +2
      Quote: wooja
      and what actually has changed since the Stalin era ....?

      Dear colleague wooja (Dmitry), at the time of Joseph Vissarionovich, for such "tricks" they were planted, and even put up against the wall, "regardless of the positions and ranks these" magicians "held. For example, the same People's Commissar of the aviation industry Shahurin A. I. and the commander-in-chief of the Red Army Air Force Novikov A.A., who received 7 years (and served) for manipulating the release-acceptance of defective equipment during the Second World War.
      1. wooja
        wooja 18 May 2019 08: 12
        +1
        but how many have not been planted ?, wipe your eyes on the post-Stalinist times ..., total Stalinist justice-- a fairy tale, do not be so naive, the mess in the country was amazing .... and the leader was not omnipotent, like the organs
        1. Gamdlislyam
          Gamdlislyam 18 May 2019 08: 30
          +1
          Quote: wooja
          but how many have not been planted ?, wipe your eyes on the post-Stalinist times ..., total Stalinist justice-- a fairy tale, do not be so naive, the mess in the country was amazing .... and the leader was not omnipotent, like the organs

          Dear colleague wooja (Dmitry), you, in your righteous anger, did not notice the founding person - in those days everyone (regardless of their positions) really realized that they were responsible for their actions, and often with their heads.
          And a mess, as he has always been, and not only in Russia, in Russia, in the Russian Empire, in the USSR and the current Russian Federation. He was, is and will be in all countries. This is a human factor.
          1. wooja
            wooja 18 May 2019 08: 32
            0
            blessed is he who believes. and anger ... not him. do not care ....
  21. 2112vda
    2112vda 18 May 2019 07: 51
    +6
    Quote: Undecim
    But here for articles of this kind, there are no applicants yet.

    This topic can be covered in a very large article. For many, it will simply not be interesting because will abound with a very large number of technical details. To begin with, I will provide a far from complete list of what needs to be covered in detail.
    1. Aluminum production and which industries are associated with this.
    2. Production of aircraft engines with all the attendant.
    3. Production of paints and adhesives.
    4. Production of organic glass and sources of raw materials for this product.
    5. Avionics with communications.
    6. Production of high octane gasolines.
    7. Production of rubber and plastics.
    8. Production of precision mechanics.
    In all the areas listed above, at the beginning of the 40s of the last century, we were only at the stage of the formation of industry and objectively could not create samples of aviation technology superior to potential opponents. Stalin was not an idiot; in this situation, the stake was on quantity. Whether anyone likes it or not, the current situation at that time was the legacy of the backward tsarist industry. Now history is repeating itself. Under the tsar, "effective managers" in the person of merchants and industrialists could not provide the army with everything it needed. If now there is a serious conflict, we will again “wash in blood” modern “effective managers” will not be able to carry out the transfer of industry to a military regime.
  22. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 18 May 2019 08: 22
    +3
    Russian man Nikolai Nikolayevich Polikarpov could well in the 20's find himself in a well-fed and promising America, along with his teacher, the great Sikorsky.

    It was in this "well-fed America" ​​in the same 20s during the Great Depression that Sikorsky was completely ruined for the first time, then he somehow recovered in the 30s, dealing with flying boats, but the crisis of 1939 again ruined him (more specifically - it was eaten by a competitor, Consolidated, which manufactures Catalina). And only then Sikorsky took up helicopters, which then did not need anyone nafig - there were no competitors.
    1. PilotS37
      PilotS37 18 May 2019 09: 20
      +3
      Nikolai Nikolayevich Polikarpov could well end up in a well-fed and promising America in the 20s with his teacher, the great Sikorsky.

      By the way, in the 20s, the Sikorsky family (if I remember correctly) lived on the money of his wife, who worked ... as a nurse in a hospital. There were no other incomes in the family.
      So, I think that Igor Ivanovich over "fed America" ​​would neigh loudly!
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 18 May 2019 10: 09
        0
        Moreover, his work in America in the 20's was sponsored by Rachmaninoff, whose brother was an aviator in the early twentieth century and crashed. I don’t think that Rachmaninov would have found money for Polikarpov either.
        1. PilotS37
          PilotS37 18 May 2019 10: 14
          +2
          Well, "sponsored" is a strong saying. There was a joint-stock company where Rachmaninov was one of the main shareholders (but not the only one!). By the way, there is an episode when Sikorsky needed "more money", but the shareholders were tired of it and they refused. Then Igor Ivanovich locked the door from the inside barnin which the meeting of shareholders was held, and said that no one would leave here until he was given the required amount. Wild West! wassat
  23. stannifer
    stannifer 18 May 2019 09: 04
    +4
    "It was the planes with double-row" stars "that became the best fighters (and not only) of that war."
    Mustang, Spitfire, Tempest, FW-190D, and the same Yak look at the author ... somewhat strange.
  24. PilotS37
    PilotS37 18 May 2019 09: 27
    +3
    Most likely, Nikolai Nikolaevich initially decided to bet on more tenacious air-cooled engines.

    Do not forget that the future MiG-1 began to be developed also at the Polikarpov Design Bureau. That is, the situation here was "more cunning": "The King of Fighters", most likely, simply did not want to "put all his eggs in one basket." What was peculiar to him!
    Let us recall how, in contrast to Sukhov’s I-14, he proposed (and realized!) A pair of aircraft: an I-16 high-speed monoplane and an I-15 maneuverable biplane.
  25. PilotS37
    PilotS37 18 May 2019 09: 37
    +2
    ... a very large load of design bureaus, which participated in the creation of several projects besides the I-180 (VIT-1, VIT-2 and future Su-2).

    Here the author screwed up!
    KB Polikarpov, like Sukhoi's group, participated in the "Ivanov" competition with your project the closest bomber, but lost it to Sukhoi, who initially acted under the auspices of TsAGI, that is, Tupolev. But while the competition was going on, Tupolev was imprisoned and Sukhoi "was released" [of creativity].
    So, Polikarpov had nothing to do with the Su-2 KB!
  26. PilotS37
    PilotS37 18 May 2019 09: 38
    +3
    But alas, it turned out that very flight in 1938.

    In the photo under this phrase - the broken I-16, and not the I-180 ...
    1. KERMET
      KERMET 18 May 2019 10: 11
      +1
      It's just that this photo appears in the internet under the name "from the place of Chkalov's death", and so yes, they also take doubts ...
      In the article about I-180 there the author and a photo of I-185 are present wink
      1. PilotS37
        PilotS37 18 May 2019 10: 17
        0
        And in the second photo, allegedly from the scene of the tragedy, is also Ishak (+ obviously not December and the forest around).
        1. Vladimir-81
          Vladimir-81 26 May 2019 14: 47
          +1
          And in the first in the second photo (broken plane) photos from the scene of Chkalov’s accident on an I-16 airplane.
          On October 3, 1937, Valery Chkalov received the task to fly on a measuring base at the highest possible speed for the most accurate determination of flight parameters (of the I-16 aircraft) No. 5210671. A lightweight version of the I-16 with the M-62I engine, specially designed to set the women's world speed record. The Chkalov Museum in Chkalovsk contains Chkalov's testimony about this accident, photographs and a diagram of the accident. Dmitry Dyogtev wrote about this in his article "Ishak" against Messer. "
          Photos from the place of the death of Chkalov are not publicly available.
  27. PilotS37
    PilotS37 18 May 2019 09: 41
    +1
    It was an airplane, very similar in layout and layout to the I-16.

    If you look closely, the MiG-1 / -3 is also close to the "Ishak": the tail is almost one-to-one! The nose, of course, is completely different, the wing is larger and more elongated ... But the tail is a spitting image of "daddy" !: repeat
  28. KERMET
    KERMET 18 May 2019 09: 44
    +1
    Quote: Nagan
    I don’t know how I-180, and I-185 required a lot of aluminum. Not just a lot, but VERY MUCH

    How much is VERY MUCH? If anything I-185 (like the I-16, like the I-180, as well as the Yak-1 and MiG-3) is a mixed-design aircraft. He needs "extra" duralumin only for walls spars and power ribs, Shelves of spars and power ribs - T-sections made of steel Z0KHGSA (pipes of this steel were used, for example, on the Yak-1 fuselage truss) and on the skin of the wing there was used sheet metal made of duralumin (if we start from a thickness of 2 mm it would turn out about 50 kg per plane) - is that a lot?
    1. Alex
      Alex 20 May 2019 00: 11
      0
      The weight of the all-metal wing I-185 was 410 kg. Although most of it falls on the steel shelves of the side members, but all the same there is clearly not enough 50 kg of duralumin. And even some part of it will inevitably go to waste.
      1. KERMET
        KERMET 20 May 2019 02: 19
        0
        50 kg was meant for sheet metal for wing sheathing, here in disputes someone pointed out that it was sheet metal that was in short supply (ours was of poor quality) and mainly went for lend-lease
  29. PilotS37
    PilotS37 18 May 2019 10: 09
    +1
    ... the factory had its own design bureau, in which they created their own aircraft!

    Yeah! This is a feature of the Soviet system: the main design bureaus were on their own, the plants on their own ...
    This was the logic: property is the same everywhere, national, and the economy is planned.
    That's just ... the design bureau, developing the aircraft, often did not know at which plant it would be produced, what this plant could do and what not ... So there was a need for factory design bureaus, which adapted the project "lowered from above" to fit the possibilities specific production ...
    Over time, when the composition of the leading design bureaus settled down (and this happened already somewhere under Brezhnev), each of them "sat down" on "their" factories and already "did not release" them: there were not enough factories - to lose a factory for a design bureau meant to lose perspective ...
    But the factory bureau survived!
    1. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 18 May 2019 20: 50
      +3
      Quote: PilotS37
      This is a feature of the Soviet system: the headquarters were in themselves, the factories in themselves ...

      Dear colleague PilotS37, 11 January 1939 was created by the People's Commissariat of the aviation industry (isolated from the People's Commissariat of the defense industry). KAGANOVICH Mikhail Moiseevich (elder brother of Kaganovich Lazar Moiseevich Kabanovich politburo member) was appointed People's Commissar. It was he who, by order of the People's Commissariat, allowed the factory design bureau to engage in experienced aircraft construction.
      It must be remembered that the salary in the factory design bureaus was lower than in the design bureau several times, since they had the lowest category. Pursuing an experienced aircraft industry, factory designers were able to upgrade their category (and the salary is quite significant). It is not necessary to exclude the ambitions of the leaders of the factory design bureaus.
      It was profitable and the leadership of the plants. Additional (and not small) funds, increased funding (including bonuses), supply of equipment, materials in short supply.
      As a result, about 40 design bureaus were formed in the People's Commissariat, engaged in the design and construction of experimental vehicles. But to deal with "other people's" aircraft, i.e. no one was willing to introduce them into mass production. It was financially unprofitable.
      With this "Makhnovshchina" the deputy. People's Commissar Yakovlev A.S. at the beginning of 1941, when he closed about three dozen projects with his Order, and forced the factory designers to engage in the introduction of aircraft into serial production in accordance with the Government Decree. And after the outbreak of the war, the same "evil genius" reassigned the factory design bureaus as branches of those design bureaus whose aircraft were produced at a particular enterprise. Here is this Yakovlev A.S. they cannot forgive, because he has built a vertical power structure. Now it was necessary to "bow" to the people's commissar or deputy. People's Commissar (the appeal to the Kremlin was not rolled over the heads of the leadership of the People's Commissariat).
      1. PilotS37
        PilotS37 18 May 2019 22: 02
        +1
        And after the outbreak of the war, the same "evil genius" reassigned the factory design bureaus as branches of those design bureaus whose aircraft were produced at a particular enterprise. Here is this Yakovlev A.S. they cannot forgive, because he has built a vertical power structure.

        I can say to myself that it’s definitely not for that ...
        And AC was not an "evil genius" - rather, "Little Tsakhes", which "Sam" released into the operational space. He could have let someone else out, but preferred Yakovlev. Why dont know.
  30. PilotS37
    PilotS37 18 May 2019 10: 28
    0
    Polikarpov had nothing behind him except what he had. And absolutely had no support.

    In 1929 N.N. Polikarpov was sentenced to death in the "Industrial Party" case. For some reason, the verdict was not carried out, but it was not canceled either (the case was revised only after the release of the I-16, and even then, if my memory serves me, some "tails" remained on Polikarpov ...).
  31. mmaxx
    mmaxx 18 May 2019 14: 03
    -2
    In the end, it became clear. And do not blame Yakovlev, Lavochkin, etc., etc. For several years, the young were given by plane, and Polikarpov - not a single one. The usual logic of production. Or anyone who thinks otherwise could offer Comrade something else. To Stalin?
    1. Alex
      Alex 18 May 2019 16: 19
      +3
      Polikarpov was played against circumstances overlapping:
      1) Stalin, who considered the creation of the aviation industry one of his achievements, reacted very painfully to the situation when it became clear that it was lagging behind, first of all, from Germany. Tupolev, Myasishchev, Petlyakov, Bartini and many other aircraft designers were arrested. Against the background of distrust of the old cadres, it was decided to attract young people who grew up under Soviet rule. Stalin's attitude to Polikarpov was disdainful - leave the "priest", let him work. Officials always feel the mood of their superiors and behave accordingly.
      2) The catastrophes of I-180-1 and I-180-2, which led to the death of Chkalov in 1938 and Susie in 1939, the loss of I-180-3 at state tests in July 1940 (did not get out of the inverted corkscrew) , the accident of one of the aircraft from the military series (nevertheless built despite the sabotage of the management of plant No. 21), coupled with problems with the M-88, led to the cessation of work on the I-180. At this time, state tests of the MiG, LaGG and Yak were already conducted.
      3) At the end of 1939 Polikarpov was taken away the project of the fighter X (future MiG), together with the designers led by his deputy Gurevich and the plant, and again with the remnants of the design bureau (it seems to be the third) they transferred to another enterprise.
      4) The fighters of the 40th year had to be built not with the engines that were planned (on LaGG and Yak there should have been M-106, on MiG - AM-37). Polikarpov was catastrophically unlucky with the M-90 and M-71, which were never completed, the M-81 had insufficient power. With the M-82 I-185 successfully passed state and military tests (November 1942), but by then La-5 with the same engine was already in the mass series. The I-185 with the M-71, which passed state tests in January 1943, was still recommended for the series, but the catastrophe with the death of Stepanchenka and the absence of the M-71 mass engine all slowed down, and then by the end of 1943 the La-7 appeared , approaching his LTD with a mass engine ASH-82FN. Polikarpov also had fighters both built and in the project, but all with non-serial engines.
      1. mmaxx
        mmaxx 18 May 2019 17: 03
        +1
        Yes, and Polikarpov himself was not a toothy man. Could not be promoted. It always, and today plays a big role. And so, he almost walked away. And, of course, it’s a pity that this plane did not go into series. But then what did not have to be abandoned? If only the intrigues of Shakhurin and Yakovlev were behind everything, then they would be swept away like crumbs from the table, if everything was as good as it seems to us now.
  32. Alex
    Alex 18 May 2019 14: 49
    0
    Quote: PilotS37
    For some reason, the sentence was not executed.

    Replaced by imprisonment, during which Polikarpov, Grigorovich and other repressed designers designed the I-5. After which they were released.
    1. PilotS37
      PilotS37 18 May 2019 22: 04
      -1
      Yes, but the verdict to Polikarpov was not canceled: he worked on the I-16, while still being sentenced to death ...
      So here we had the King of fighters ...
  33. NF68
    NF68 18 May 2019 16: 37
    0
    Let's reason. If I-180 with a motor in 1100 hp showed a speed of about 600 km / h, then for a more perfect in terms of aerodynamics and 185, and even with a motor in 1700-1900 hp The estimated speed of the order of 700 km / h was quite real.


    If I-180 would go into the series, then MiG-1, LaGG-3, Yak-1 would not be needed. Or needed, but not in such quantities.


    If yes, yes. Reference Lagg-3 with M-105 engines with take-off power 1050 hp. also developed speeds of the order of 600 km / h, and serial ones developed at best 575 km / h. The I-185 needed an 14 or 18 air-cooled cylinder engine that could be boosted at altitudes up to 6-6,5 km, and not an ASH-82 FN that could only be boosted at altitudes up to 2000 meters. Neither M-90 nor M-71 were brought to the USSR. That's all with the I-185, and it’s not a matter of wrecking, but the Soviet engine builders did not have the necessary experience in developing such engines even for medium heights. No less problems were also encountered in the production of Soviet aircraft engines.

    By the way, for the Germans this is 1945 year. If “Focke-Wulf” had a motor in the 2200-2500 hp, it would be a terrible car ...


    By the way, Roman, the FW-190 D-9 with the Jumo-213 A-1 / AG engine with the MW-50 developing 2240 hp on takeoff. issued since September 1944 year. Since the beginning of the 1945, the FW-190 A-9 with the BMW-801 S has been produced. This engine with the MW-50 developed exactly 2200 hp, but neither the FW-190 D-9 nor the FW-190 A-9 became a scary car because the engines These aircraft were MEDIUM with single-stage, two-speed superchargers. As a result, these aircraft were not bad fighters at altitudes up to 7000 meters. With a further increase in altitude, the flight characteristics of these German fighters decreased. Even Me-109 G-6 / G-14 with DB-605 engines AS-altitude 7,8 km. and Me-109 K-4 with DB-605 D2-altitude 7,6 km. were nothing more than intermediate options, before the Me-109 K-14 with the high-altitude DB-605 L. BMW-190 S at heights of more than 9 meters looked prototypes FW-213 A-1 c BMW-190 F-9 801 hp. At an altitude of 7000 km. this fighter without water-methanol boosting developed a speed of only 190 km / h. With MW-9, the speed of this option at altitudes of 801-1 km. still only reached 2400-6,4 km / h. It was possible to dismantle the cannons installed in the wings. This would give a speed increase of approximately 666 km / h and an increase in climb rate by 50 m / s.

    As a result, for the Eastern Front, the Germans needed fighters with engines with single-stage 2-x superchargers with engine heights of no more than 4,5-5 km.

    For the Western Front, the Germans needed ALTITUDE fighter aircraft with two-stage superchargers, and in this case even the 2050 .s-FW-190 D-11 power with the Jumo-213 F-1 allowed this option to develop significantly higher speed at high altitudes: 760 um / hour at an altitude of 12500 meters in nitrous oxide injection.

    Those. the Germans were to simultaneously produce fighters for the Eastern Front with optimal fights for altitudes of up to about 6 km. characteristics, and for the Western Front, the Germans needed high-altitude fighters.
  34. itarnmag
    itarnmag 19 May 2019 18: 00
    -3
    On the eve of the tragic flight of Chkalov, one experienced test pilot refused to fly the I-180 due to the fact that the engine did not work normally at low temperatures
    1. Alex
      Alex 20 May 2019 09: 22
      +2
      There was no such thing. The first flight on the I-180 was supposed to be Chkalov. Subsequently, other testers could fly on it, as was the practice. By the way, despite the frosty weather, that day there were flights of other aircraft without incident.
      After several taxings and approaches, the first flight was assigned, but Polikarpov did not sign the flight task, that is, the chief designer did not allow the first flight (which saved Polikarpov from repression). There were signatures of Belyaykin, Tomashevich, and he forgot something else from the factory management.
      Chkalov, in violation of this very mission, climbed 2000 m instead of 600 and flew outside the airport. When approaching, the I-180 decreased too quickly and in order to straighten the trajectory it was necessary to add gas, which Chkalov did, but too energetically, and the engine was supercooled (it was said that the blinds had not been installed yet) and died out with a sharp change of mode. The propeller, when the engine stopped, created too much resistance and the aircraft could not reach the strip and fell among the buildings surrounding the airfield, which was in the city limits (the current metro station Airport). To top it off, Chkalov was thrown out of the cab and he hit his head on a metal beam.

      It turns out that Chkalov was ruined by the rush of the plant’s management (end of the year) and his own self-confidence (if he hadn’t moved away from the airfield, he would most likely be able to take a forced one)
      1. Gamdlislyam
        Gamdlislyam 20 May 2019 09: 58
        0
        Quote: Alex
        It turns out Chkalov was ruined by the rush of the plant management (end of the year)

        There is another version. The executives wanted to celebrate by making a "gift" to Joseph Vissarionovich for his birthday (December 18), reporting on the first flight of the new prototype of the fighter (which at that time was a common practice). Well, and of course, not forgetting yourself, tk. in case of a successful outcome, it was possible to apply for both awards and prizes.
        By the way, no one mentions something in the comments that the first flight was supposed to take place a few days earlier. However, the "omnipotent executioner" Beria Lavrenty Pavlovich, having received information about the condition of the aircraft, banned the test flight. And for the strict implementation of the ban, he sent his "Cerberus" to the airfield. Perhaps that is why Nikolai Nikolaevich Polikarpov refused to endorse the flight list for December 15, 1938.
      2. Vladimir-81
        Vladimir-81 26 May 2019 01: 18
        0
        Alexander, the engine stopped when approaching at an altitude of 200-150 m. And it is not a fact that the motor would not have stood up if Chkalov flew as expected at an altitude of 600 m.
        According to the testimony of witnesses, the plane crashed into the courtyard of Moszhilgosstroi carpool at 13 Magistralny proezd, (this is in the area of ​​the current Zvenigorod highway).
        In May 1939, official bench tests of the M-88 engine were carried out, which: "confirmed the main drawback of this engine:" There is no idle throttle response with its various thermal states ... "so there is nothing to do with overcooling of the motor.
    2. Vladimir-81
      Vladimir-81 26 May 2019 01: 22
      0
      Ilya Abramovich, do not tell me the name of the pilot who refused to fly the I-180 on the eve of Chkalov’s flight, and if you know what was the date of December 1938?
  35. KERMET
    KERMET 19 May 2019 22: 00
    0
    Quote: NF68
    Neither M-90 nor M-71 were brought to the USSR.

    Well, priority was given to the M-82, and since there were more than enough problems with it, nobody worked on the development of the M-71 during the war. And so they brought it - ASH-73 direct ancestor of M-71
    1. Alex
      Alex 20 May 2019 10: 27
      0
      Descendant. Well, since the index from 71 was changed to 73, it means that it was very different from the ancestor. Otherwise, there would be an ASH-71 with some letters.
      1. KERMET
        KERMET 20 May 2019 10: 43
        +2
        Well, legs grow from 71 smile
        In fact, after the M-71 there was the M-71F, which then became the ASH-72, and only then the ASH-73 appeared
        It’s quite a development of the engine, about which many say - it did not exist ...
    2. NF68
      NF68 21 May 2019 15: 36
      0
      Quote: KERMET
      Quote: NF68
      Neither M-90 nor M-71 were brought to the USSR.

      Well, priority was given to the M-82, and since there were more than enough problems with it, nobody worked on the development of the M-71 during the war. And so they brought it - ASH-73 direct ancestor of M-71


      There was no necessary experience in the development of 2 in-line 18 cylinder stars in the USSR before the Second World War and in the first half of the Second World War. Do not forget that the position of the USSR in the 1941 and 1942's was unusually difficult. Therefore, they decided to choose something between M-88 / 89 and M-90 and M-71.
      1. KERMET
        KERMET 21 May 2019 17: 30
        0
        Plus M-82 was a smaller diameter, then Shvetsov guessed
        1. NF68
          NF68 21 May 2019 20: 47
          0
          Quote: KERMET
          Plus M-82 was a smaller diameter, then Shvetsov guessed


          For the 14 cylinder engine, the cylinders are not as close to each other as for the 18 cylinder double stars. Those. It’s easier to achieve acceptable cylinder cooling with the 14 cylinder engine than with the 18 cylinder engine. This alone means a lot.
  36. Alex
    Alex 20 May 2019 00: 00
    +3
    Quote: Pilat2009
    The reason for abandoning civilized technology is extremely simple: His Majesty the Plan.

    Oddly enough, the manufacture of glued wooden structures is more time-consuming than all-metal.
    1. unknown
      unknown 21 May 2019 05: 43
      0
      Yes technology ...
      At one time, he talked with a veteran who during the war worked at one of the aircraft factories, namely at the assembly of fighters. He said that from this glue the balls swelled to such an extent that they prevented not only dancing but also walking ...