Military Review

The Story of King Arthur

73
“He was covered from head to toe with antique iron armor; his head was inside a helmet that looked like an iron barrel with slots; he held a shield, a sword and a long spear; his horse was also in armor, a steel horn protruded on her forehead, and a lush, red and green silk veil hung down like a blanket almost to the ground. ”
Mark Twain. "Yankee at the court of King Arthur"



King Arthur is a knight from a legend. Did he look like what the writer Mark Twain described to us in his witty and amusing book “The Yankees at King Arthur’s Court” or something else? And what is really known today about King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table? Whether история about them beautiful fiction or is it based on real historical events? And is it possible to believe what the directors of cartoons and popular movies shoot about them? We will tell you about all this now.


“Death of King Arthur. A hand from the lake takes his sword. ” It is not entirely correct, perhaps, to place in the beginning of the material an illustration depicting the death of the main character of the article. But ... she is very impressive. In addition, there are no illustrations of King Arthur’s own time at all. And all that appeared no later than the fiction of their authors. Thumbnail from the Death of Arthur manuscript, Saint-Omer's 1316 or Tournai. (British Library, London)

About kings and knights. History on request!


Well, we will begin by recalling the English proverb that "many hands are doing everything better." And indeed it is. I didn’t even have thoughts to write about King Arthur and his knights, until ... this topic did not interest one of the readers of "VO", and he did not ask me to take up this topic. After that, it turned out that, firstly, it was not only interesting in itself, because, secondly, it was also directly related to the “knightly theme”. True, her chronological framework is somewhat different, but it is impossible, after all, to be a pedant to that extent. In addition, the topic was so fascinating that I must say that I enjoyed working on it very much.

How do we know about arthur?


Now let's talk about the most important thing in our history. And how do we even know at least something about King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table? Of the popular telemultivok, ancient legends and manuscripts, or is it all one continuous extrasensory perception, as, for example, in Alfred Bester's novel A Man Without a Face? Let's try to get to the very foundations of the legends about Arthur, and then we will also see what time it was for England, what was important in this country, and what great Arthur really did, of course, if his actions were not fiction. .

The Story of King Arthur

Merlin reads his prophecies to King Vortigern. "The History of the Kings of Britain." Jeffrey of Monmouth. (British Library, London)

Poem, peer hero, and other written sources


Well, it has long been known that the name of Arthur was first found in the poem “Wai Gododin”, by the Welsh bard Aneurin, which dates from about 600 a year. It describes the battle of Katraet in which the Anglo-Saxons fight with the kings of the "Ancient North". And that's where it comes to King Arthur, a valiant warrior who has accomplished many feats. The leader of the Britons is compared with him in this poem. That is, we are talking about a person whom everyone should know, since comparing with the unknown is nonsense. In another Welsh poem, The Annuna Trophies, attributed to the bard Taliesin, Arthur’s journey to the Welsh otherworld of Annun is described. According to linguistic analysis, its text refers to the 900 year. That is, between these two poems there is a difference in 300 years. And the fact that the image of Arthur during this time did not fade and was not forgotten speaks only about one thing - its prevalence and significance.

In the Annals of Cumbria, dating back to the second half of the 10th century, Arthur’s name is mentioned in connection with the Battle of Badon in 516 and under Camland in the 537, that is, it indicates in a certain way the time in which he lived, namely, the 6th century .

Arthur’s whole pedigree as a king, who inherited power from well-born ancestors, is set out in the Mostun manuscript dating from the end of the 13th century. and which is stored in the National Library of Wales. It is also found in a number of other manuscripts, so that who he is and whose son is known for certain. But again, it is known only from these written sources. In the same manuscript “Mostun” the following was written: “Arthur is the son of Uther, the son of Kustennin, the son of Kinhaur, the son of Tudwal, the son of Morfaura, the son of Eudaf, the son of Cador, the son of Kinan, the son of Caradog, the son of Bran, the son of Llyr the Little Resolute”. However, all these figures are semi-legendary. Their real existence, like Arthur himself, by the way, is essentially not proven by anything. Although ... there is still something tangible for today ...


"King Arthur". Peter de Langtoft. "Chronicle of England" approx. 1307 - 1327 (British Library, London)

Stones and inscriptions


This is found in the cultural layer of the Tintagel castle, and dating back to exactly the 6th century. that is, the era of King Arthur, a stone with an inscription made in Latin inscribed on it: “Kohl’s father made it, Arthugna, a descendant of Kohl, made it”. According to archaeologist Gordon Meihena, part of the letters in this inscription is missing, which was typical of the inscriptions of that time. Therefore, it should be read like this: “Arthugnu erected this stone in memory of his forefather Kolya”. Well, King Kohl is another semi-mythical king of Britain who lived in the 4th — 5th centuries. n er If we assume that Arthugnu is a distorted name of Arthur (or Arthur is a distorted name of Arthugnu), then ... we have an artifact in which not on paper, but on a stone, the real existence of a person with that name is attested. But nothing more! Alas, there is no evidence that Arthur and Arthugna are the same person.


The same stone, although the inscription and subtle ...

There was also the so-called "Tomb of Arthur". Another 1191 year during the repair in the abbey in Glastonbury found the grave of a man and a woman, on the plate of which they discovered the name of King Arthur. For many years pilgrims from all over Britain came to her. But in 1539, the monastery was dispersed, and today only ruins are preserved from it. The grave, too, was not preserved, but in the place where it seemed to be located for tourists, a sign was made. And that's all for today!


That same grave, or rather all that is left of it ...

"History of the Britons" Nennia


Well, the first historical document, and not the poem in which King Arthur is mentioned, is the “History of the Britons”, dated approximately 800 year, and written by a Welsh monk named Nenniy in Latin. Many British scientists believe that he used the folk legends about him that had spread in Wales. In the "History" of Arthur it is said that he won twelve victories over the Saxons, and finally defeated them in a battle at Mount Badon.


Tintagel Castle Ruins in Cornwall

However, the description of Arthur from Nennia is very contradictory. On the one hand, Arthur is the leader of the Christian Christians against the Saxon invaders, and on the other ... clearly a magical figure. This, however, did not prevent Jeffrey of Monmouth from including Arthur in his History of the Kings of Britain, written in the first half of the 12th century. He wrote about him as an absolutely historical character that existed, but the reliability of his work nevertheless raises great doubts among historians.


"King Uther Pendragon arrives at Tintagel." Thumbnail on the page from the manuscript of Robert Weiss's “Dry Narration, with a sequel to Edward III; The destruction of rome; Fierabras. Second quarter of the 14th century (British Museum, London)

“The Story of the Kings of Britain” by Geoffrey of Monmouth.


So, Jeffrey wrote that Arthur lived in the 6th century AD, which was already known, and then turned him ... into a victorious leader who was king of all Britain and conqueror of most of Northern Europe. His court attracted the most daring knights from all over the Christian world, and he himself was the epitome of chivalry. Jeffrey either visited Tintagel himself, or knew someone who was there and simply told him the legends about King Arthur in those places. Apparently, this is exactly how a message appeared about how, with the help of magic, King Uther entered Tintagel Castle, defeated his master Gorlua and married his wife, or rather, his widow, Igternis. And that Arthur was conceived and was born in Tintagel, which, of course, could not fail to flatter the inhabitants of the village of the same name, which was located near its ruins. Here, however, there is one important circumstance. Either we believe in magic, and then everything was exactly that. Either we do not believe - and then all this could simply not be, or it all was completely different.


King Uther Pendragon talks with Merlin. Peter de Langtoft. "Chronicle of England" approx. 1307 - 1327 (British Library, London)

Literary translation by Robert Weiss


Geoffrey’s rather peculiar “historical work” was translated into Norman-French in 1155 by Robert Weiss of Jersey, who added his own inventions and, in particular, a description of King’s famous “Round Table”, and here he also has Arthur’s sword first called Excalibur. As a result, it was this book that found fertile ground at the court of Henry II and all subsequent English kings and, by the way, was repeatedly rewritten. Heinrich's own grandson and builder of the new Tintagel castle - Richard, Count of Cornwall - was also brought up on stories about Arthur, and it is not surprising that he built his castle in this very place. Legend gave the English kings a role model, which ultimately led to the creation of the Order of the Garter by King Edward III, who clearly wanted to somehow remind the glorious King Arthur.

Skeptic William of Malmesbury


A contemporary of Geoffrey of Monmouth, William of Malmesbury, also did not doubt the reality of Arthur’s existence, but he treated him as a historical figure with great caution. In the extensive work The Chronicle of the Kings of England, he devoted only a few lines to King Arthur, and he accomplishes his feats with the Roman Amvrosy Aurelian. Here is what he says: “Ambrose, the only survivor of the Romans, who became king after Vortigern, suppressed the arrogant barbarians with the help of militant Arthur. This is the Arthur, about whom the British naively tell a lot of tales, even today, a man who is certainly worthy of glorification, not only because of empty fantasies, but for the sake of a true story. He supported the sinking state for a long time, and urged the broken spirit of his countrymen to war. Finally, in the battle at Mount Badon, relying on the image of the Holy Virgin, which he attached to his armor, he joined the battle with nine hundred enemies alone and scattered them with incredible cruelty. "

In this message, of course, the most important is the mention of the image of the Holy Virgin. He attached it to the armor, and won. Everything is exactly the same as in the medieval Russian chronicles, in which the appeal to the saints and the mention of God's help are found in almost every second paragraph.


Film version of the image of Arthur 2004. In it, he is shown by a Roman, well, and the equipment he was dressed in was still quite tolerable in this connection ...

At the end of his story, William of Malmesbury writes about all this very revealingly: “Truth, therefore, is vague; although none of these people was lower than the glory that they gained. " That is, he simply said in other words that the truth is always somewhere out there!

Использованная литература:
1. Roger Middleton. 'The Manuscripts' in The Arthur of the French, ed. by Glyn S. Burgess and Karen Pratt, Arthurian Literature in the Middle Ages, 4 vols (Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 2006), IV.
2. Pamela Porter. Medieval Warfare in Manuscripts (London: British Library, 2000)
3. David Nicolle. Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars (Anglo-Celtic Warfare, AD 410-1066). L .: Osprey Pub., (Men-at-Arms series No.154), 1984.


To be continued ...
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  1. Edward Vashchenko
    Edward Vashchenko 12 May 2019 07: 04
    +10
    The most chivalrous theme! On Arthur, as on the "cornerstone" is the whole chivalrous romance. And he, in turn, is a source for understanding the chivalrous mentality.
    I always wondered how it could happen that the history of the 6 century from Wales became so popular among the knights of Europe.
    Thank you for opening the topic, well, the illustrations are super!
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2019 07: 28
    +13
    As one friend of mine used to say, “all this is an idea for a children's fairy tale, but adults must also sincerely and passionately believe in something!” Otherwise, “there is no smoke without fire”!
    My purely personal associations on the theme of King Arthur, this is a comparison with our epics. In fact, a person lives - lives, does business, grows children of grandchildren, then dies. And his work and life begins to grow into a lump of myths and legends! So to speak, the costs of verbal transmission of information from generation to generation .... Christomatismal example is Prince Vladimir Krasnoye Solnyshko (which included two Vladimirov, popular among our people - Saint and Monomakh).
    So with King Arthur, I am sincerely sure that the latter "trampled the lands of Misty Albion", but whether he was a king or a hero of at least one legend about him, my grandmother said in two !!!
    R.s. That's about from here and the conclusion is to blame for the "gossip grandmother"! Throughout history, only the position of the old woman has changed her place (at the entrance, on a bench or on the block), but her mission - "to get into where they don't ask" - never! And so “a simple Ufa guy Arthur got out of the balcony of his mistress” and got stuck on “centuries, like a wizard passing through walls”! good
    Vyacheslav Olegovich thanks for the morning reading, I apologize for the fuss in the comments, could not resist! Regards, Vlad!
    1. arturpraetor
      arturpraetor 12 May 2019 13: 10
      +5
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      As one friend of mine used to say, “all this is an idea for a children's fairy tale, but adults must also sincerely and passionately believe in something!”

      CSIP good drinks Without fairy tales, even adults, life becomes boring ...
    2. Edward Vashchenko
      Edward Vashchenko 12 May 2019 13: 12
      +3
      Not in terms of a dispute, but simply a “remark”. "The old man has heard," as Mark Block wrote, really rules the story. But ... the origin of the epics and the cycle of Arthur is different. The period of chivalry - the period of feudalism - conditionally feudalism, if you like - the cycle about Arthur - this is already literary works composed by specific authors, such as on the topic of Arthur. And epics refer to the “heroic” period or the disintegration of tribal relations, Vladimir Monanomakh, this is our Athenian Salon, as it were, limiting the growth of interest on a loan and mortgage slavery (servitude).
      Therefore, different sources, different meaning. The presence of fairy elements shows the undividedness of the consciousness of this period.
      Something like this)))
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2019 14: 32
        +4
        Edward, I meant the oral period of the legendary epic about King Arthur! In general, according to various estimates, the conditional existence of a “hero” before the appearance of his literary description of events separates from 350 to 600 years! The term is not just huge, but terribly huge, but in general it is equal to the finds of our philologists who discovered (wrote down) epics about our heroes from the middle of the year before last, until the end of the last century. I am not looking for the full genesis of the formation of such an epic, but simply pay attention to the mechanism and processes! For example, you and I perfectly understand that if there was a real Arthur, then he definitely did not have the title of King, did not own a sword with the name "Escalibre", but about the knights of the round table, I can only smile! But the real Arthur could exist, could have an adviser to Merlin and a friend of Lassenlot, who was drinking with his wife! So in our epics, for example, Dobrynya Nikitich has a real prototype for the uncle of Prince Vladimir! But our attempts to find the real "Gorynych snake" will fail, alas! Fiction, or allegory of events?
        By the way, Arthur, there may be an image taken from several real people who separate centuries. For example, like our Prince Vladimir!
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          Edward Vashchenko 12 May 2019 17: 05
          +1
          Of course, it is quite possible.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 12 May 2019 22: 11
          +3
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          But our attempts to find a real “snake of Gorynych” will unfortunately fail!

          Not at all, Vladislav.
          It is believed that if you look at the surrounding space from a high hill, then the moving squad of a certain baron will look like a snake. And if you watch it for a while, you can see how it approaches the village, the village lights up, after which the "snake" returns to its "cave", that is, the castle. Pure dragon.
          And the Serpent Gorynych, that is, the three-headed dragon, does not it resemble like two drops of water the invasion of the steppe, produced by several columns, with accompanying fires and abductions of "red girls"? And the very name Gorynych arouses "suspicion". For example, the notorious Tugarin is the essence of Tugorkan, the Polovtsian Khan. Gorynych could be, for example, the son of a certain khan, by name, say, Goran or Haran ... smile
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2019 14: 41
        +3
        . Vladimir Monanomakh, it’s like our Athens Salon, which limited the growth of interest on a loan and mortgage slavery (servitude).

        And why not Yaroslav the Wise? Who did much more in the legal field than his father and grandson?
        I think everything is corny simple!
        If the era gave birth to Homer and he drew attention to the Trojan War, then through his Elliad and Oles, we know more than about the contemporaries of Homer!
        Unknown to us, Bayan sang the feat of Vladimir and therefore we have epics about him or them !!!
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          Edward Vashchenko 12 May 2019 17: 04
          +3
          In the period of Yaroslav they simply codified part of the customary law, under Vladimir Monomakh, new processes in Russia, and in all lands, the disintegration of radio-tribal relations, the genus ceased to protect its members, usury and slavery of tribesmen appeared. Go to the neighborhood community. This process is known in history, so coincided that Vladimir Monomakh, who sat down on the Kiev table, streamlined these processes, like the Salon in Athens. I repeat, not so radically as he.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2019 18: 12
            +4
            Edward, I suppose that only the “middle strata” of epics are characteristic of Vladimir Monamakh! Perhaps he is obliged to popularize the epic epic. But the earlier stage of the formation of tales is directly related to Vladimir Svyatoslavovich! And there are later layers of the epic epic, which can be attributed to the time of Vsevolod the Big Nest and father Alexander Nevsky.
            In fact, we meticulously draw out the earliest facts, but the essence of the oral tale has such factors as dynamism and relevance!
            Golden words of Pushkin “in every fairy tale there is a hint, a good lesson for good fellow”!
            In a priori, a Russian fairy tale is a storehouse of educational material! Just one thing: “Do not drink from the hoof - you will become a kid” !!! At least this thesis is worthy of introduction into scientific circulation in a good dozen disciplines !!!
            I jerk, but in part!
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              Edward Vashchenko 12 May 2019 21: 49
              +3
              Vladislav agrees, especially about the hoof) For a long time I haven’t read Propp - the origins of a fairy tale) And the theme of layering is very relevant.
            2. Korsar4
              Korsar4 13 May 2019 08: 03
              +3
              That is, after a hypothetical 10 years, or from the planet Tau-Kit, this stratification can last until Ulyanov (Lenin) or the current president?

              I always suspected that any event, even measurable, such as temperature, might seem direct. And this is part of a huge cycle. Sometimes not just one.

              For the measurements!
    3. bubalik
      bubalik 12 May 2019 15: 30
      +2
      “All this is a plan for a children's fairy tale, but even adults need to believe in something sincerely and passionately”! Otherwise, “there is no smoke without fire”!

      "Where is the fairy tale, and where is the reality on these worlds hidden behind endless years?
      When you try to retell the story of one person, then, having entered the entrance, which is unremarkable and illuminated by the rays of the sun, you find darkness inside, and in it there is a flicker of light that you don’t expect ,,,
      Where is reality, where is a fairy tale, where is one truth and where is another? "
      wink
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 May 2019 16: 14
        +1
        "The truth is somewhere near." (t \ c "X-Files")
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2019 17: 58
          +2
          Chic poems Sergey!
          Dear Anton, there is such a science of formal logic, in the study of which the adherents of universities (tobish students) cram rules! But in real life, sometimes you really want to put “thoughts into the voice” contrary to these simple rules!
          But life always puts an end to and! Sometimes it’s very hard and painful! Having singed “hands on fire”, people like me begin to search for “truth” where there are no or very few source materials, artifacts, and other materials! For example, today's topic, although being a pragmatist, is more honest to say “there are no convincing facts - it means the existence of Arthur is refuted”! But we pull the hypothesis by the “ears” of hypotheosis, inflate the versions, dream by guesses !!!! ??? ... but we really understand that all this is zilch (a game of the mind and intellect) or rather erudition!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 12 May 2019 18: 07
            +2
            Vlad! I have been familiar with formal logic since I was 17, when I read a collection of Feyman's lectures on physics. 'Lots of cheese - many holes, many holes - little cheese, lots of cheese - little cheese. "
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 May 2019 03: 32
              0
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              Vlad! I have been familiar with formal logic since I was 17, when I read a collection of Feyman's lectures on physics. 'Lots of cheese - many holes, many holes - little cheese, lots of cheese - little cheese. "
              good
              Now remember Anton, do we constantly follow these rules?
  3. midshipman
    midshipman 12 May 2019 07: 58
    +7
    As a child in the 7th grade, it was in 1952, was read by this book. He took it in the library on 7th Sovetskaya Street in Leningrad.
    I remembered my childhood. Thank.
  4. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 12 May 2019 08: 29
    +3
    And what does a respected author think of the theory of Demusil?
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 May 2019 13: 36
      +1
      Dear Ivan! Excuse my naivete, and Dumézil is here sideways?
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 12 May 2019 14: 10
        +7
        Oh, this is a very interesting theory. Georges Dumésile drew attention to the similarity of Celtic myths and the Nart epic. And there, indeed, there are certain parallels. Say the death of King Arthur and Batrads (the father of Soslan) are described as carbon copy. That is, in order for the hero to go into the world of the dead, you need to throw his sword into the sea. And the close ones, who, essno, feel sorry for losing such a precious weapon, are trying in every way to advance the will of their master. However, the fraud is revealed and the sword is still sent to the abyss of water, after which King Arthur and Batrads safely rest in the Bose.
        And here we can recall, about the fact that many Sarmatian federates served in Roman Britain, who could very well remain there after the withdrawal of Roman troops and become the local military elite.
        In general - a paradise for conspiracy therapists :))) But Monsieur Dumezil, no matter how you say it, the scientist is quite respectable (although he did not go this far, of course :))).
        In Hollywood, in the 2004 year, this theory was pretty much vulgarized, but, as a hypothesis ... would purkua not be na?
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 May 2019 14: 33
          +2
          Well, in this way we can consider the theory of the influence of Indian culture on the Aztec mythology.
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 12 May 2019 15: 20
            +4
            Hmm, if you find the same parallels between the heroes of Ramayana and Quetzalcoatl ....
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 12 May 2019 15: 26
              +1
              Aeronautics, vimana and other paleocontacting ... "In general, a paradise for conspiracy theorists :))) "
    2. kalibr
      12 May 2019 14: 34
      +3
      I know the mortar of Dumézil ... I don’t know the theory. I read about the similarity of Nart legends and Celtic myths ...
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 May 2019 14: 40
        +5
        The gunsmith Dumezil - father of the linguist Dumezil
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2019 15: 09
          +3
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          The gunsmith Dumezil - father of the linguist Dumezil

          The case gave birth to a word !!!
          good
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 12 May 2019 18: 16
            +1
            Usually the opposite, but the message is good, in the spirit of Kurzweil.
        2. Peter Ivanov
          Peter Ivanov 13 May 2019 18: 24
          0
          Well, Type - YES!
  5. samarin1969
    samarin1969 12 May 2019 08: 57
    +3
    A very interesting topic: the outskirts of the former Roman world - from Ireland to the Volga. It seems that the chroniclers were working, diplomats were cruising, and there was a place for dragons, warriors, magic with the addition of everyday details. Arthur is slowly put into school textbooks and even create his "domestic and foreign policy."
  6. Korsar4
    Korsar4 12 May 2019 09: 05
    +6
    In relation to King Arthur, for some reason, I want to be a skeptic.

    Do not take "ice pick" from modern films as a model.
    Merlin, of course, is a curious character.

    But here, Mark Twain first comes to mind.

    How many attempts did not make to touch the topic - was not given.
    I do not know how, apparently, to draw a sword from a stone.

    Or the sword is not the same, or the stone. Or skis do not go.
    1. Peter Ivanov
      Peter Ivanov 13 May 2019 18: 33
      +1
      And on UM (! Ironically about myself) modernity comes with its wild publicity and self-promotion of the state system of the Anglo-Saxon golden billion!
      How is their Hollywood "" this thread about their racial superiority ?! And only they (!) The inherent "democratic freedom" ?! Remember the movie "Robin Hood - the prince of thieves and robbers" .... the Arab shouts to the masses: - "Pipple !!!! Join tu Robin Hood !!!!" like, to fight tyranny all over the world !!!!!!!!!
  7. lucul
    lucul 12 May 2019 09: 23
    +1
    Was the story about them a beautiful fabrication, or is it based on real historical events?

    Arthur is the cornerstone of Anglo-Saxon propaganda. Having dispelled this myth, one can shake the whole ideology of the Anglo-Saxons.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 May 2019 11: 14
      +6
      Quite right !!! And also to "drown" the "Mayflower", to destroy the creative heritage of Kipling ... Dear, in the Anglo-Saxon paradigm, like any other, there are so many of these cornerstones that the Chinese will have enough to close the Great Wall around the Celestial Empire.
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 12 May 2019 12: 26
      +7
      Quote: lucul
      Dispelling this myth, you can shake the whole Anglo-Saxon ideology.

      Yes, they will cry and lose orientation (not to be confused with orientation) in the historical space. Deprived of a starting point, their history will stall, progress will stop. After that, we introduce them instead of Arthur Cheburashka (King Chebur Russian) and they are in our hands.
      All urgently to shake the "cornerstone of Anglo-Saxon propaganda"!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 May 2019 12: 43
        +3
        Cheburashka is not allowed! About ten years ago, Ouspensky sold the rights to use the image of Cheburashka to the Japanese.
    3. Peter Ivanov
      Peter Ivanov 13 May 2019 18: 36
      0
      Put it on the Stonehenge "posture"!
  8. Undecim
    Undecim 12 May 2019 11: 45
    +6
    There was also the so-called "Tomb of Arthur." As early as 1191, during a renovation in the Glastonbury Abbey, the grave of a man and woman was found, on the stove of which the name of King Arthur was found. For many years, pilgrims from all over Britain came to her.
    Abbotsvo Glastonbury by the beginning of the XI century was the richest and most prosperous in Britain. But in 1184 a disaster happened - almost all the buildings were destroyed by fire. Recovery was slow, so the pilgrims' main source of income for the abbey was almost dry. The chests were empty before our eyes. It took money.
    And then in 1191, revelation came upon the head priest of the monastery, Henry de Sally. The Holy Father said that he found out where the tomb of King Arthur is and drove the monks to dig the floor in the recently restored Chapel of the Virgin. The monks took up the spans and dug a coffin hollowed out of a solid oak trunk at a depth of five meters. Male and female skeletons were found in it and this lead cross.

    The inscription on the cross is extremely informative: "Here lies the famous King Arthur, buried on the island of Avalon." It should be noted here that the abbey stood on an island among the marshes.
    It was immediately announced that the tomb of King Arthur and Queen Guinerva was found. The people again tumbled down to the abbey, and the coins to the treasury. By the beginning of the 14th century, Glastonbury was the second richest abbey in Britain (after Westminster). King Arthur and Queen Guinevere provided a stable income. As the saying goes - the end justifies the means.
    In 1539, when Henry VIII ordered the dissolution of all the monasteries, Abbot Whiting refused, so he was hanged at Glastonbury Thor. That is the sad end.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 12 May 2019 13: 40
      +2
      What is interesting - as an independent image in the visual arts, King Arthur did not appear at all in Britain and not in France, but in Italy, at the archivist Porta della Pescheria - the northern portal of the Cathedral of Modena (1100-1140).
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 12 May 2019 19: 41
      +1
      It's like looking for a treasure in Prostokvashino. The circle is complete.
  9. BAI
    BAI 12 May 2019 13: 01
    +2
    Film version of the image of Arthur 2004. In it, he is shown by a Roman, well, and the equipment he was dressed in was still quite tolerable in this connection ...

    No. Well, you as a historian, refer to the version of Hollywood ....
    Speaking of Glastonbury. There is such an opinion:
    At the end of the twentieth century, English scientists, having gathered together the accumulated knowledge, decided once and for all to give an answer to all the questions that Glastonbury posed to them for over a thousand years. It cannot be said that they completed this task completely, but something was nevertheless done. So, for example, archaeologists re-opened the tomb of Arthur, and the information on the chronicle of the abbey was fully confirmed! Scientists were engaged not only in the black marble tomb, but also studied the earliest burial chamber discovered by the monks in 1190. The skeletons of Arthur and Guinevere were sent for a medical examination, which dated the remains of the V-VI centuries of our era, i.e. the time when the legendary king lived. There was no doubt left!
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 12 May 2019 13: 33
      +5
      You would still quote from "Speed-info".
      Read Better (Edited with H. Mytum) The Archeology of Rural Monasteries. Oxford: British Archaeological Reports (BAR 203), 1989 or similar, and not an analogue of "Speed-info" - "Everyday".
      1. BAI
        BAI 12 May 2019 17: 54
        0
        And specifically, you can refute this opinion? Was the autopsy of the grave or not? If according to this source it was - the topic is closed. And it doesn’t matter which publication reported this. Especially since
        (BAR 203), 1989
        in 1989, this might not have been known.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 May 2019 18: 20
          +4
          Respecting you both, I’m just wondering: how are you gored? Time to bet
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 12 May 2019 19: 43
            0
            Do you want jousting tournaments? The dueling themes did not pass without a trace.

            Then to draw a draw. And pull out the numbers for the Olympic system.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 12 May 2019 18: 25
          +5
          And specifically, you can refute this opinion?
          That is, you think that the archaeological reports of the University of Oxford, the link to which in my comment your material from the Eurydice advertising site do not refute? Serious position.
          Good. Let's go around.

          "Glastonbury Abbey: Archaeological Research 1904–79"
          This is a comprehensive study of archaeological archives and artifact collections of Glastonbury Abbey and data on modern geophysical exploration of the site.
          Thirty-six seasons of archaeological excavation led by scientists such as Sir William St. John Hope, Sir Charles Pearce, Sir Alfred Clapham and Dr. Courtney Arthur Rell Radford are analyzed. The most recent views of British historians on the history of the abbey, including the "tomb of King Arthur", are presented.
          Publisher - Society of Antiquaries of London.
          The book is available online. You can download the book at http://www.oapen.org/search?identifier=619339.
          Happy reading.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 12 May 2019 19: 06
            +2
            Great, Viktor Nikolaevich! Now left to the liver and a hook on the right.
          2. BAI
            BAI 12 May 2019 19: 15
            0
            You approach the question in the same way as you do the textbook on nuclear physics. Based on the right information, make the wrong conclusions.
            1. It was written
            There is such an opinion
            Opinion, not affirmation. Given the frame from the Hollywood action movie is quite appropriate.
            2.
            Was the autopsy of the grave or not?
            An autopsy was. Information is correct.
            3. But the fact that different sources evaluate the autopsy results in different ways - here, using quotes from the Internet, you can debate indefinitely. And now I see no reason to do this. Mb the author will consider this in the sequel. It is unlikely that he will pass by this.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 12 May 2019 19: 51
              +2
              Obviously, you, in this matter, as well as in nuclear physics, are the bearer of some super-secret knowledge that no one else knows about. Even British historians and archaeologists, whose book I suggested you read.
              There was no autopsy. And there was no research on skeletons. And there are no skeletons in nature.
              In 1962, archaeological evidence was found confirming the story that a grave was in the ancient church and it was destroyed many centuries ago. All. No bones or other objects were found. Therefore, lovers of secrets are still searching.
              Three years ago, such a seeker, Graham Phillips, found already two places, moreover, Arthur was buried in one, even with a shield. The truth has not yet been unearthed. He has his own website. You can view. http://www.grahamphillips.net/
        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 May 2019 19: 20
          +1
          Do not give up, Citizen! Answer the barbarian from the outskirts!
          The Empire is waiting for your triumph!
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 12 May 2019 19: 44
            +2
            "And another earthworm" (c).
  10. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 12 May 2019 13: 28
    +1
    As a result, it was this book that found fertile ground at the court of Henry II and all subsequent English kings
    The book very organically blended into the mainstream of Aquitaine cultural expansion and for centuries created the image of chivalry "without fear and reproach."
  11. kalibr
    12 May 2019 14: 39
    +1
    I was not interested in the version, but in the costume ...
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 May 2019 15: 03
      0
      In the light of Dumesel's theory, the costume is quite authentic, there is only a lack of "marriage"
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 12 May 2019 15: 27
        +2
        In the light of Dumézil, you have to:
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 May 2019 15: 35
          +1
          Ivan, why?!?!?! Now the folkhistorics will descend and begin to prove that this is a lifetime image of Kia, Schek and Horeb!
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 12 May 2019 15: 36
            +2
            Glory to you, Lord, at least not Swans :)))
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 12 May 2019 15: 38
              0
              Explained, she is the author of the canvas!
          2. arturpraetor
            arturpraetor 12 May 2019 20: 02
            +2
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Now the folkhistorics will descend and begin to prove that this is a lifetime image of Kia, Schek and Horeb!

            Mountains in the background - stopudov Kiev laughing
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 13 May 2019 05: 29
              -1
              Choi immediately Kiev? This is Shambhala!
  12. kalibr
    12 May 2019 16: 13
    0
    Quote: Senior Sailor
    And here we can recall, about the fact that many Sarmatian federates served in Roman Britain, who could very well remain there after the withdrawal of Roman troops and become the local military elite.

    That is exactly what happened!
  13. Doliva63
    Doliva63 12 May 2019 16: 13
    +1
    For me, King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table are nothing more than a book "In the Land of Legends" from a distant childhood. We ought to understand our history.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 May 2019 16: 30
      +3
      So we are trying to figure it out. And the separation of "our history" from the World History is a path to nowhere. And the Germans were still very lucky on this path. They won't stand on ceremony with us.
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 12 May 2019 19: 46
      +1
      But I wonder who the genius that launched the legend? And why doesn’t she reach me unlike many others?

      However, the round tables themselves respect.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 May 2019 19: 59
        0
        Can you pray to other gods?
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 12 May 2019 20: 27
          +1
          Can. And who did this team worship? Merlin - I see, sorcerer. But is this brotherhood not connected with Christianity?

          Here Ancient Greece is close. Ancient China is interesting.
          Karl and Lisa Gusyatnitsy - too.

          Even the Hound of the Baskervilles - nothing.

          But not this brotherhood.
  14. faterdom
    faterdom 12 May 2019 18: 06
    +2
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    All urgently to shake the "cornerstone of Anglo-Saxon propaganda"!

    Well, this is for Weller, and his research on the origin of the name Aivengo.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 May 2019 18: 34
      +2
      I’m quite familiar with Weller’s work, but it passed me by. Please link?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 12 May 2019 18: 54
        +4
        Ballad of the Valiant Knight Ivan Guev (Aivengo)
        https://airborn.io.ua/s10523/ballada_o_doblestnom_rycare_ivane_gueve_ayvengo
        I was neighing from the heart.
  15. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 12 May 2019 18: 12
    +3
    Vlad! I have been familiar with formal logic since I was 17, when I read a collection of Feyman's lectures on physics. 'Lots of cheese - many holes, many holes - little cheese, lots of cheese - little cheese. "
  16. cat Rusich
    cat Rusich 12 May 2019 23: 27
    +1
    Don't even be King ARTHUR - you had to think of it ... fellow
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 May 2019 05: 54
      0
      Quote: cat Rusich
      Don't even be King ARTHUR - you had to think of it ... fellow

      Well, the knight cart came up with something.
  17. demo
    demo 13 May 2019 19: 54
    0
    The topic is interesting, but .......... for an amateur.
    Actually, the work is called "Yankees from Connecticut at the court of King Arthur."