Military Review

Nuclear reactor for NNSL. Will “Poseidon” lay Dollezhal's egg?

77
Nuclear reactor for non-nuclear submarine (NNS). The contradiction is inherent in the title, however, this question was quite seriously considered in the USSR. In particular, the idea of ​​placing a small-sized nuclear reactor was considered in relation to the submarines of the 651 project. The diesel-electric submarine of the 651 project, the carrier of cruise missiles, has become the largest non-nuclear submarine of the time built in the USSR.


Dollegeal Egg


From the very beginning, in an effort to increase the range of the 651 submersible diesel-electric submarines, the designers laid silver-zinc batteries instead of lead-acid batteries. In practice, it turned out that silver-zinc batteries have two critical drawbacks: high cost and short service life (up to 100 charge-discharge cycles), which determined the return to lead-acid batteries.

However, in addition to batteries of increased capacity, more radical solutions were considered for the XDUMX diesel-electric submarines of the 651 project. In principle, the Soviet Navy (Navy) of the USSR parallel to the construction of boats of the 651 project was preparing for the construction of nuclear submarines of the 675 project, with the same P-6 cruise missiles that were installed on the 651 project diesel submarines. However, 675 submarines of the project were significantly more expensive than the 651 submarines. A solution was needed that would allow the submarines (PL) of the 651 project to have an unlimited range of underwater submarines, while maintaining the other characteristics at the level of the diesel-electric submarines of the original project.


The diesel submarines project 651


As a solution, the creation of a small-sized nuclear reactor, the so-called Dollezhal eggs, was considered, on behalf of its creator Nikolai Dollezhal, chief designer of atomic reactors for the Soviet Navy. At the initial stage, the project suggested placing the reactor in a separate capsule and towing it on a cable with a cable in order to abandon the heavy biological protection. However, such a concept was immediately rejected, both because of the high probability of losing the capsule with the reactor, and because of the potential possibility of tracking the submarines along the radioactive trace. In the future, the placement of the reactor outside the robust diesel-electric submarine pressure vessel, but within the framework of a single “rigid” submarine structure, was considered.

It is obvious that the technologies of that time did not allow the creation of a sufficiently compact and reliable maintenance-free reactor with acceptable characteristics. In the future, the idea of ​​installing a nuclear power plant (NPP) on diesel-electric submarines returned more than once. In particular, the 651 project for the creation of a mass submarine equipped with low-power nuclear power plants was developed on the basis of the diesel-electric submarines of the 683 project. This submarine was to be built in large quantities in factories that previously produced diesel-electric submarines. The 683 project was delayed and did not develop, presumably because by that time the USSR already had sufficient production capacity to produce full-fledged nuclear ships in the quantities required by the Navy.


Estimated tactical and technical characteristics of the project 683


The project 651 was not forgotten either. In the 1985 year, one of the boats of this project was reworked according to the 651E project, developed as early as the 1977 year. As part of the modernization, the submarine was equipped with a compact low-power nuclear power unit developed at the Research and Design Institute of Power Engineering (NIKIET) - currently, the Order of Lenin, N.A. Dollezhal. Within the framework of the 651E project, low-power nuclear power units were located in the lower aft submarine outside a robust hull. Used single-circuit reactor of boiling type. However, the submarine project 651E also did not leave the stage of the prototype.

Multipurpose Russian submarines


With the collapse of the USSR and the loss of a significant part of its industrial potential, Russia once again faced the problem of a shortage of nuclear submarines. The 885 / 885М “Ash” multi-purpose nuclear submarine project, despite all its advantages, turned out to be extremely expensive and difficult to build. In total, it is planned to build seven ICCPLs of the 885 / 885М project, which is completely inadequate given the rapid obsolescence of the third-generation nuclear submarines of the third generation of 971 and 945 / 945А projects in the Russian Navy.


MCCPL of the 885 / 885М project


At the moment, the design of a new-generation multi-purpose submarine Husky is underway. The Husky project is still filled with rumors rather than real information. Presumably, the submarines of this project will be smaller and cheaper than the XTsL project 885 / 885М, which allows to draw an analogy with the super-expensive US Seawolf submarines and developed them to replace the more versatile and relatively inexpensive submarines of the Virginia type.


US multipurpose Seawolf submarine (left) and Virginia (right)


At the same time, there are risks that the Husky project, especially if it implements a high coefficient of technical novelty, may face unforeseen delays and cost increases.

NNS in Russia and in the world


Another way to enhance the underwater component of the Navy is to build non-nuclear submarines. And in this segment in the Russian Navy also not everything is going smoothly. Currently, the global trend is to equip non-nuclear submarines with air-independent power plants (VNEU), made on various principles - fuel cells, Stirling engine. The presence of VNEU allows you to radically increase the range of the submerged course of the naval nuclear submarines, bringing its capabilities closer to nuclear submarines, with the significantly lower cost of the former.


Swedish submarine type "Gotland", equipped with a Stirling engine and the German submarine project 214 with VNEU based on hydrogen fuel cells


Unfortunately, the Russian projects of the VNEU for the Lada 677 naval submarines faced problems, like the entire 677 project, as a result of which the first submarines of this project are expected to be implemented without installing the VNEU.


Submarine project 677 "Lada"


Accumulators for NNSL


Another option is to equip the naval subsystems with lithium batteries of increased capacity chosen by the Japanese naval forces (Navy), which also operate the naval submarines with a Stirling engine. It is assumed that the use of lithium batteries of high capacity will allow DAL NNS autonomy comparable to that which allows the use of VNEU, but at the same time lithium batteries provide a greater range of underwater travel at high speeds.

Critics of lithium batteries speak of their tendency to fire and explosion. However, it can be assumed that industrial, and especially military use of such batteries will involve increased attention to safety issues and minimizing the potential risks of overheating or deformation of batteries. The biggest obstacle to the introduction of lithium batteries on the NAMS is their high cost.

Nuclear reactor for NNSL. Will “Poseidon” lay Dollezhal's egg?

In March 2020, the Japanese Navy should adopt “Soryu” type naval submarines with lithium batteries


The prospect of using lithium batteries in the interests of the Navy is confirmed by the intensification of their development by European manufacturers.

At the Euronaval 2018 exhibition in Paris, held in 2018 in Paris, the French shipbuilding association Naval Group and the German association TKMS announced the creation of their own lithium-ion rechargeable batteries for submarines. Both companies independently develop lithium batteries for submarines in cooperation with a major French manufacturer of industrial lithium batteries and batteries, the company SAFT.

The Naval Group plans to use LIBRT lithium batteries in the prospective SMX-31 NPS, while the TKMS is developing a universal solution that can be integrated into existing and existing German NNSs of the 212 and 214 projects.


A typical element of a lithium-ion rechargeable battery for submarines, presented by the German TKMS at the exhibition Euronaval 2018


In Russia, the situation with the production of modern lithium batteries is rather uncertain.

Liotech, a subsidiary of RUSNANO, manufactures batteries manufactured using lithium-iron-phosphate technology (LiFePO4). These batteries have certain advantages, in particular, high safety of use, possibility of safe fast charging and safe discharge of high currents. At the same time, the capacity of LiFePO4 is significantly (approximately two times) inferior to lithium batteries made by lithium cobalt or other technologies. Information about the company's bankruptcy appeared in the media several times, but the site of the enterprise is currently functioning.


LiFePO4 Liotech battery cell


In 2015, the “Autonomous Power Sources” Scientific Center, jointly with the Autonomous Power Sources Plant, PJSC, announced the opening of a full-cycle production of lithium-ion batteries. However, currently information on the scale of production and the degree of localization is missing.

The technologies of both LiFePO4 batteries and other types of lithium batteries will be developed, and their implementation in Russia, as well as the possibility of using as an energy source for NPSL, deserve close study by specialized organizations.

Modern Russian NPU


The lack of a working domestic VNEU and solutions based on high-performance lithium batteries, combined with the high cost and delays in the construction of multi-purpose submarines, can force the Russian Navy to return to the concept of equipping the low-voltage submarines with NPIs of low power. At the moment in the world, under the influence of "green", there is a departure from nuclear energy. In the near future, Russia does not plan to abandon the “peaceful atom”, it is actively developing in this direction, and most likely is “the first among equals” in the field of nuclear energy.

One example of the emergence of breakthrough technologies among Russian nuclear scientists is examples of creating a small-sized nuclear power unit for the Poseidon unmanned underwater vehicle and a nuclear rocket engine for the Burevestnik cruise missile with an unlimited flight range.


Poseidon unmanned underwater vehicle


There is no reliable data on the Poseidon BPU nuclear power unit. Presumably this could be a reactor with a liquid metal coolant with a capacity of about 8-10 MW, based on that developed by the AP Technological Research Institute. Aleksandrova (NITI) project AMB-8, with silent magnetohydrodynamic cooling pumps of the primary circuit.

Given the specificity of the use of the Poseidon unit, its nuclear power unit may have a limited lifespan, lasting several thousand hours, which will not allow it to be directly borrowed for promising submarines, but leaves it as a source of technological solutions.

The presence of radiation protection at a nuclear power plant in the Poseidon unit is in question. On the one hand, the absence of the crew does not require full radiation protection, only the so-called "Shadow" protection compartments with sensitive devices. On the other hand, the lack of radiation protection may complicate the operation of the Poseidon unit - installation / removal from the carrier; maintenance work even though its default reactor is “plugged”.

Both in the USSR and in Russia, reactors with a liquid-metal coolant were developed very actively, up to serial use in submarines of the 705 "Lira" project, which has outstanding technical characteristics, as well as an extensive set of unsolvable problems. It is likely that the “liquid metal” (presumably) NPU of the Poseidon unit is effective only within the framework of the problem to be solved and cannot be adapted for long-term trouble-free operation.


Submarine project 705 / 705K "Lira" with a reactor with a liquid metal coolant


If NPI with liquid metal coolant and with a long autonomous trouble-free operation cycle cannot be realized, then the option of creating a low-capacity NPI based on reactors developed in the same NIKIET, where Dollezhal's egg was previously designed, can be considered.

From the article of the Deputy Director - General Designer for Civil Objects of JSC NIKIET A.O. Pimenova:

To meet the energy needs of the Arctic fields, NIKIET offers a number of developments: from the transportable small Vityaz station with a water-cooled reactor with electrical power up to 1 MW and a power unit with a unified Shelf reactor plant, for local energy supply of a single consumer, supplied in the form of an energy capsule factory manufacturing with compactly placed reactor and turbogenerator installations, up to the line of hull-boiling apparatus for electric power stations single-block 45 MW, 100 MW and 300 MW.


In particular, low power plants (ASMM) Vityaz, Shelf and ATGOR should have minimal dimensions and high autonomy. They are designed in an encapsulated design, which gives an increased level of safety of the ASMM. The Vityaz integrated transportable integrated power plant, based on a pressurized water-cooled reactor, an electric capacity of 1 MW and a thermal capacity of 6 MW, weighing no more than 60 tons. The core campaign is 40 000 hours, the frequency of the reboot is six years, air cooling, with mechanical air pumping.


Projects ASMM offered by JSC "NIKIET"


In the power range from 1 to 10 MW, the project ASMM “Shelf” and the promising project “ATGOR” are proposed based on a gas-cooled low-power reactor with an open cycle. The ATGOR mobile unit on an automobile semi-trailer is capable of producing 3,5 MW of thermal and 0,4-1,2 MW of electrical power. The lifespan is 60 years, nuclear fuel is reset once every ten years.


АСММ of the project "АТГОР" on the automobile chassis


ASMM "Shelf" is the main development of "NIKIET", can be supplied in the form of ready-to-use energy capsules and is intended for power supply of technical equipment operating in oil and gas fields, including those remote from a significant distance from the coast and having a year-round working cycle during 25-30 years old. The AFMM "Shelf" includes a double-circuit nuclear reactor with a water-cooled integrated reactor with a thermal power of 28 MW, a turbogenerator installation providing power generation with a power of 6 MW and a system for automated and remote control, monitoring and protection by technical means of the installation.

The life of the ASMM "Shelf" is 60 years, the 40 000 core campaign, hours, the frequency of overload for six years. The weight of the transported module is 375 t. The reactor is under the protection of the safety hull, which in case of accidents with loss of coolant provides 72 hours to decide on further actions. Turbine generator is available for repair. From the influence of external factors, all elements of the ASMM "Shelf" are closed by a protective sheath.


ASMM "Shelf"


Thus, it can be assumed that the developments of the Russian nuclear power engineers quite allow us to create a compact autonomous NPI with an electrical capacity of 1-6 MW with a life of up to ten (and possibly more) years between reloads of the reactor core. If a compact nuclear power unit can be created on the basis of reactors with liquid metal coolant, then its characteristics can be even more impressive. Placing the reactor in an isolated capsule will allow you to isolate it from the submarine hull as much as possible and to prevent a significant increase in noise compared to the NPS / DEPL.

NPSL or diesel-electric submarines with an auxiliary nuclear power plant?


First of all, it must be said that the statements “we do not need naval submarines, quite enough conventional diesel-electric submarines” do not withstand any criticism, and refer to an attempt at complacency - “if we do not succeed, then we don’t need to.” The time of classic diesel-electric submarines is coming to an end, their export potential will rapidly decline, not because of the “mods” on NNLs, but because the need for frequent ascent to recharge the batteries is disastrous for a submarine. Given the rapid increase in the number of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) being developed, including in the interests of the Navy, a radar or a thermal imager of the UAV will be detected by the radar or thermal imager of the UAV and destroyed to the periscope depth.

Does the Russian Navy need diesel-electric submarines with an auxiliary nuclear power plant, or is it better to focus on the development of VNEU and modern batteries for naval submarines? The answer to this question requires getting answers to several other questions:

1. How successful and expensive (low-cost) the Husky submarine will turn out to be and how much will diesel submarines with an auxiliary NPI cost?

2. Is the industry of the Russian Federation capable of creating a VNEU at reasonable time and at a reasonable cost, or producing modern batteries, the use of which on domestic submarines will allow them to compete with the world's best counterparts?

On item 1. If, for any reason, the Husky submarine of the project turns out to be expensive and its construction will take a long time, and the diesel-electric submarine with an auxiliary NPI will be much cheaper, albeit at a cost of more modest characteristics, and easier to build, can be considered and implemented to provide the Navy with a sufficient number of submarines.

The cost of the ICAPL project 885 / 885M is from 30 to 47 billion rubles. (from 1 to 1,5 billion dollars), the cost of the SSBN project 955 / 955A is about 23 billion rubles. (0,7 billion dollars). The export value of the diesel-electric submarines of Project 636 is $ 300 million, respectively, their value for the Russian Navy should be about $ 150-200 million. Even if their cost, in the case of equipping an auxiliary nuclear power plant, doubles, then in this case the cost of diesel-electric submarines with nuclear power plants will be three to four times lower than the cost of the ICAPM project 885 / 885M. This does not mean at all that it is necessary to abandon the "real" nuclear-powered vessels in favor of diesel-electric submarines with nuclear power plants, but that their existence during navy can be quite cost effective, confirms.

On item 2. The problem of VNEU and batteries of increased capacity will have to be solved in one way or another, at least to provide the shipbuilding industry with export orders. If the terms of creating VNEU and accumulators of increased capacity will be delayed, and their characteristics and cost will not meet the requirements of the Russian Navy, then the design of a diesel-electric submarine with an auxiliary nuclear power plant may be in demand, otherwise it may be questioned.

Is it possible to insert a compartment with NPIs into existing 636 or 677 projects? The 636 project is too old to implement such radical innovations as an auxiliary nuclear power unit. The possibility of inserting an auxiliary NPP in the submarine of the 677 project can only be assessed by the developers of this PL, together with the developers of the NPP. The fate of the project 677, and so is in limbo, according to some information just because of problems with the power plant. In this case, the development of the auxiliary NPP installation can both reanimate and finally bury the 677 project.

Even less information is available about the project of the fifth-generation Russian naval submarines "Kalina". The fragmentary information contains information on the development of several versions, both with VNEU, and with batteries of increased capacity. Whether this information is reliable, or is a good wish, it remains only to guess, respectively, there is no sense to build speculation about the possibility of using an auxiliary NPI on the Kalina submarine.

In this way, The need to develop diesel-electric submarines with an auxiliary NPP for the Russian Navy can be linked to the ratio of the following main factors: the cost and construction time of the promising HUSKY submarines and the cost and construction time of the submarines with the VNEU or accumulators of increased capacity.

On the other hand, progress in the creation of small NPPs may lead to the fact that they will develop regardless of the success in creating VNEU or accumulators of increased capacity and will be realized and in demand within the framework of a single project of a promising submarine.
Author:
Photos used:
bastion-karpenko.ru, deepstorm.ru, forums.airbase.ru, bmpd.livejournal.com, liotech.ru, proatom.ru, topwar.ru, nikiet.ru
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  1. mark1
    mark1 April 30 2019 06: 22
    +3
    A good topic has been raised.
  2. Whowhy
    Whowhy April 30 2019 06: 29
    +6
    Perhaps the photograph shows the "Poseidon unmanned underwater vehicle", but it has nothing to do with the nuclear transatlantic apparatus, which is discussed in the article. The device shown in the photo, judging by the rotary columns and motors in the mines, is designed for good maneuvering under water, and not for a high-speed transatlantic crossing. Judging by the contours, it is unlikely to be able to accelerate even to 20 km / h, let alone 200. lol
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa April 30 2019 12: 52
      +3
      This is an AHP Harpsichord.
      Here it is


      Comparison with Poseidon



      Yellowish at the bottom - Harpsichord. Above Poseidon. In scale.

      The confusion arose because some "bright" head put the video of the start of the Harpsichord instead of the video of the start of Poseidon into the video from the presentation of the submarine "Belgorod".

      This was done because the start of Poseidon is such a shameful treshak that people cannot show.
      1. Jack O'Neill
        Jack O'Neill April 30 2019 16: 31
        +1
        The confusion arose because some "bright" head put the video of the start of the Harpsichord instead of the video of the start of Poseidon into the video from the presentation of the submarine "Belgorod".

        Can you give a link to the vidos?)
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 1 May 2019 19: 37
          -1
          Vidos, which was shown by Putin on March 1, 2018. This is part of a closed video material on the future submarine "Belgorod". They gave the pieces.
          1. Jack O'Neill
            Jack O'Neill 1 May 2019 19: 42
            0
            Vidos, which was shown by Putin on March 1, 2018. This is part of a closed video material on the future submarine "Belgorod". They gave the pieces.

            Those. in general there is no? It's a pity...
      2. LeonidL
        LeonidL 1 May 2019 01: 23
        +6
        "... Poseidon's start is such a shameful trash that people can't show." But the marshal-admiral from self-education was immediately reported, spit on secrecy, they say that this is how Mr. Timokhin, a problem with Poseidon came out, voice it on occasion. And the signature is Shoigu.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Operator
    Operator April 30 2019 07: 28
    -4
    NAPL is now a toy for every trifle pot-bellied type of Japanese, Germans and other Swedes.

    YSU NPA "Poseidon" with a fast neutron reactor with thermal / electric power of 30/10 MW, shadow protection, two cooling circuits with liquid metal and gas coolants, an inter-circuit heat exchanger, a gas turbine gear unit and a water radiator weighs about 20 tons.

    The weight of the reactor itself in a single-circuit design, with shadow protection and an air radiator (aka the jet engine heating chamber of the Burevestnik KR) is about 1 ton.

    With biological shielding, the weight of the indicated YSU for the Peresvet mobile laser complex can be estimated at 50 tons.

    The displacement of a submarine with a submerged speed of 30 nodes for electric power 10 MW can be estimated in 1000 tons.
    1. antique
      antique April 30 2019 08: 55
      +2
      As far as I understand, all the proposed mobile nuclear power plants exist only in projects. Nothing is built in the hardware. Right?
      1. Shopping Mall
        April 30 2019 10: 07
        +5
        Quote: Antique
        As far as I understand, all the proposed mobile nuclear power plants exist only in projects. Nothing is built in the hardware. Right?


        In my opinion, yes, but they have been talked about for a long time already, there is no promised fantastic technology there. Given that NIKIET has been dealing with such reactors for a long time (they did Dollezhal's egg), they will most likely be able to realize them. Limiters are probably lack of money and the risks that a mobile reactor has a high terror threat (by car they can shoot an RPG from a RPG and hello mini Chernobyl), at the bottom under the platform it is difficult to get there if anything happens. They give 72 hours to repair leaks, but this may not be enough.

        On the submarine it (the reactor) will still be supervised.
    2. antique
      antique April 30 2019 08: 57
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      With biological shielding, the weight of the indicated YSU for the Peresvet mobile laser complex can be estimated at 50 tons.

      And it seems that "Peresvet" has no nuclear power plant. Somehow everything is simpler there.
      1. Shopping Mall
        April 30 2019 10: 02
        +1
        Quote: Antique
        Quote: Operator
        With biological shielding, the weight of the indicated YSU for the Peresvet mobile laser complex can be estimated at 50 tons.

        And it seems that "Peresvet" has no nuclear power plant. Somehow everything is simpler there.


        No exact data, some speculation. It seems that most of the sources agree that there are NPIs with a reactor with a liquid-metal coolant, but there may well be something else.
        1. antique
          antique April 30 2019 10: 33
          0
          Quote: AVM
          No exact data, some speculation. It seems that most of the sources agree that there are NPIs with a reactor with a liquid-metal coolant, but there may well be something else.

          No. It should not be him. If a liquid metal carrier, then a short life. Relatively of course. And then, such power is not needed. Most likely there is a fiber laser. Efficiency approximately 50%. As they say, count it.
          More considerations. For underwater astrolabe, nuclear power plants are only being tested; for flying prodigy, they are testing. That is, it still does not fully work. And there are already lazers.
          1. 9lvariag
            9lvariag 12 July 2019 12: 48
            0
            Reactors for space: IGRIT, IR-100 have been tested for a long time. http://edu.strana-rosatom.ru/glava-6-issledovatelskie-reaktoryi/ Test date 1989. In the movie "Polygon" I saw such a large tank, it turns out that this is part of the application. installation of the "Baikal" stand. was the Feb reactor | Kiwi-B / Reactors on liquid metal fuel, hardly have a small resource? Bor-80 has been in operation for 50 years. And there were sodium B-8 / B-10 and others.
        2. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa April 30 2019 12: 40
          -2
          Other Non ZhMT and not gas.

          And this is not a guess.
          1. Shopping Mall
            April 30 2019 12: 42
            +1
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Other Non ZhMT and not gas.

            And this is not a guess.


            Ok, if not guesses, without details, can this be used as an auxiliary NPI for a diesel-electric submarine? Or as the basis for its development?
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 1 May 2019 11: 31
              -1
              Yes. As a base - completely.
              1. Shopping Mall
                1 May 2019 23: 13
                0
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Yes. As a base - completely.


                By the way, I was stupid, did not pay attention that the topic on Peresvet jumped from Poseidon fellow

                About Peresvet, I had a general idea that there was either a gas-dynamic or chemical laser ...
          2. antique
            antique 1 May 2019 10: 02
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Other Non ZhMT and not gas.

            And this is not a guess.

            I get it. Water ?!
    3. Shopping Mall
      April 30 2019 10: 09
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      NAPL is now a toy for every trifle pot-bellied type of Japanese, Germans and other Swedes.


      However the fleet would not have become larger than ours, especially with regards to the Japanese.
      1. frog
        frog April 30 2019 10: 52
        +2
        He has already become .... and development does not stop ....
    4. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa April 30 2019 12: 44
      +1
      How much longer can this lie be broadcast, especially this

      The weight of the reactor itself is in a single-circuit design, with shadow protection and an air radiator (also known as the jet engine heating chamber of the Burevestnik KR)
  5. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 April 30 2019 08: 47
    +1
    it is important to improve all types of submarines and build in sufficient numbers
  6. Glory1974
    Glory1974 April 30 2019 09: 28
    0
    As far as I know, the Strategic Missile Forces have small-sized nuclear generator sets to provide backup power. Surely they will develop independently further, without being tied to the fleet. Batteries also develop independently. And for submarines you need VNEU, or a revolution in batteries.
  7. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer April 30 2019 09: 34
    +2
    The cost ... ranges from 30 to 47 billion rubles. (from 1 to 1,5 billion dollars)

    The dollar is 30 rubles? This is what year the article was written?
    Mystic!
    1. Shopping Mall
      April 30 2019 10: 01
      +3
      Quote: kunstkammer
      The cost ... ranges from 30 to 47 billion rubles. (from 1 to 1,5 billion dollars)

      The dollar is 30 rubles? This is what year the article was written?
      Mystic!


      These prices just appeared on the network at the dollar exchange rate of 30-32 ruble and have not been updated since then, so it is easier to convert to dollars for comparison.
  8. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter April 30 2019 10: 58
    +1
    Russia knows how to make small-sized nuclear power plants, and this is where you need to "play" ... A hybrid power plant with full electric propulsion is quite an alternative to VNEU. And the batteries are not needed the most capacious, and the total power on the forced course can be decent. So what if not a few days. these boats have other tasks. on the other hand, there is no need to float up, even with a completely discharged battery, it does not lose speed ... On a boat of the Lada type, 10 MW of electric power is not even bad.
  9. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer April 30 2019 11: 01
    +2
    in the same NIKIET where the Dollezhal egg was previously designed.


    In the very same place where the RBMK-1000/1500 were developed and it was "modernized" by cutting off 1,2 m of emergency protection rods, which were not enough to reduce the 1986 Chernobyl disaster to the level of the 1975 Leningrad nuclear power plant accident.
    Moreover, the calculations of the local instability of the neutron field were performed even before the creation of the reactors ...
    The general conclusion from the calculations was that the choice of a step of 25 cm leads to the appearance of a significant positive vapor effect of reactivity, which may result in large and uncontrolled non-uniformity of energy release over the reactor volume. But by this time, the main design characteristics of RBMK-1000 had already been approved and it was already impossible to change the pitch of graphite masonry.


    In the period 1971-1973 three-dimensional neutron-physical and thermohydraulic calculations of the stationary parameters of RBMK reactors were performed for various power levels and different compositions of the active zones - from the initial launch to steady-state overloads. One calculation took 2-3 hours of processor time on a BESM-6 computer. When conducting these calculations, it turned out that the applied methods for calculating the effective breeding coefficient (Keff) as the eigenvalue of the matrix operator give the maximum first eigenvalue in the form of a negative number in the range of 10-12. A mathematically correct solution had no physical meaning. This problem was intensively discussed with V.I. Lebedev and Ya.V. Shevelev. It was found that only the second eigenvalue was positive and lay in the range of unity, as expected for Keff. Following the formal logic of interpreting eigenvalues ​​and eigenvectors of matrix operators, it could be concluded that initially the most stable state of the reactor core is “its absence”. This was the “first” call regarding the initial safety of future RBMK reactors.

    From calculations and experiments it was known that a group of 35-40 fresh RBMK-type TCs already forms a critical system. It follows from the calculations that if there is up to 1700 TC in the RBMK type reactor core, even when equilibrium burnup is reached, a local group of 70-110 TC can also achieve criticality if it does not contain DP or introduced CPS rods

    The volumetric coefficient of uneven energy release varied over a wide range, reaching 200–500, with a relatively small increase in the integral power of the reactor. At the end of the calculation, the local TC power in the region of the maximum energy release could exceed the limit of the heat transfer crisis by 2-10 times. The same transient process when the reactor was operating at rated power caused only a shift in the distribution of local power along the height of the TC to the upper part of the core without any significant changes in the volume coefficient of uneven energy release over the core. It was concluded that it is necessary to exclude height-leveling operations of the remote control system rods when the reactor is operating at low power levels and the need to reduce water flow through the core while reducing its power. I do not know if such a requirement was included in the operating regulations. The accident at the 1st unit of the Leningrad NPP (LNPP) in December 1975 confirmed the feasibility of such scenarios, as well as the scale of the area of ​​local overheating of the fuel cell with subsequent depressurization (about 100 fuel assemblies).

    The volumetric coefficient of uneven energy release varied over a wide range, reaching 200–500, with a relatively small increase in the integral power of the reactor. At the end of the calculation, the local capacity of the fuel cell in the region of the maximum energy release could exceed the limit for the heat transfer crisis by 2-10 times ... It was concluded that it is necessary to exclude height-leveling operations of the remote control rods when the reactor is operating at low power levels and the need to reduce water flow active zone with a decrease in its power. I do not know if such a requirement was included in the operating regulations. The accident at the 1st unit of the Leningrad NPP (LNPP) in December 1975 confirmed the feasibility of such scenarios, as well as the scale of the area of ​​local overheating of the fuel cell with subsequent depressurization (about 100 fuel assemblies).

    Ignorance or ignoring the revealed competition of two spatial effects in the subsequent (without my participation) improvements of RBMK reactors led to the fact that graphite displacers (limiters) on the control and control rods were shortened at the reactors of the Chernobyl NPP (Chernobyl NPP) and the Ignalina NPP with the RBMK-1500 reactor. AZ. Instead of graphite, at the bottom of these rods were water columns about 1.2 meters high. These columns played the role of a thermal neutron absorber and their size completely correlated with the above-mentioned effective diameter of the local critical zone (2.5-3 meters). When the AZ rods were discharged in the lower part of the core, water was displaced by the graphite ends of the AZ rods, which added additional positive reactivity to the already existing positive vapor reactivity effect and the effect of “pushing” the neutron field down. The predicted effect of the growth of the volumetric coefficient of the unevenness of energy release during the discharge of AZ at low power levels with the possibility of creating local zones of supercriticality was in the early 80s. of the last century was experimentally confirmed during the start-up of reactors at the Chernobyl NPP and at the Ignalina NPP with the RBMK-1500 reactor. In 1986, this effect was again experimentally confirmed by the accident at the 4th Chernobyl NPP unit.


    However, the discharge of AZ-5 with shortened displacers initiated a further increase in reactor power with the expansion of the local supercritical zone due to the involvement of other areas of the core in its lower part, which determined the catastrophic consequences.

    the same report contains the phrase (cited from [1], Section 5 “Priority measures to improve the safety of nuclear power plants with RBMK reactors”): “It was decided to rearrange the limit switches of the control rods in existing nuclear power plants with RBMK reactors so that all the rods are in the extreme position were immersed in the active zone to a depth of 1.2 m. This measure increases the speed effectiveness of protection and eliminates the possibility of increasing the propagating properties of the active zone in its lower part (highlighted by me, AHR) when the rod moves from the upper limit switch. ”

    The highlighted fragment of the text was intended to veil the true cause of such a large-scale accident, related to the shortening of graphite displacers of the “control rods” by 1.2 meters as part of the work to improve the RBMK-1000 type reactors, carried out by the Chief Designer with the participation of the Scientific Director, who ignored the already known features of neutron physics and thermal hydraulics in the lower part of the core when the reactor is operating at low power. I believe that without shortening the graphite displacers, any manipulations of the Chernobyl NPP personnel could only lead to a repetition of the accident that happened at the 1st unit of the LNPP in December 1975. Maybe on a slightly larger scale.

    http://accidont.ru/memo/Rumjantsev.html
  10. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 30 2019 11: 56
    -1
    The author asks the question: What is the difference between Hongwei Bing and Zaofang? And he himself answers: Zaofane is the same h.h .. heck, only in cellophane! Is it necessary to further rassusolate: is there life on Mars or .... that is, do you need "Dollezhal's eggs" repeat or are they not needed ... if "the whole world listens to the" green ", and" greenpeace "is against atomic energy in any form!? No, of course, small-sized nuclear power plants will come in handy in the" northern "conditions! Newly created ships will also be needed there , submarines with small nuclear power plants and "old" once formidable missile carriers, converted into conveyors, tankers ... However, VNEU will also be very needed ... they fit into the new fashion, and in "single-breasted now they are not fighting!" Why not use "symbiosis" of heat accumulators and Stirling engines? Somewhere ... "I am standing at a halt in a colorful half-shawl ..." we start the turbojet engine and "charge" the heat accumulators with molten metal salts or with silicon ... liquid or gas (neutral) through the channels of the battery ... which (which) is supplied to the "styling" ... There is an option ... the thermal storage battery is "lined" with Peltier elements ... (TEG-thermoelectric generator ...)
    1. Corn
      Corn April 30 2019 12: 31
      +2
      And what will be the specific energy consumption of these "heat accumulators" of yours? Purely theoretically, and the so-called super flywheels would look good as an energy source ... but this is theoretically.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 30 2019 16: 15
        0
        So, and Ivan Poddubny, when he was born, could not lift a horse! And Alexander Zass too! request

        And if you think that energy consumption will be small, do not expect!
        It is possible to compare the volume and mass energy intensity of various energy systems such as energy storage - a transforming device. Both in terms of volume and mass energy intensity, the heat storage system — the Stirling engine is several times superior to other systems, including the most promising: electrical silver-zinc batteries — an electric motor. In addition, the time for increasing the capacity of a thermal battery on 1 kWh is ten times less than that of any electric batteries with a limited charging current density.
        Depending on which phase, solid or liquid, heat-accumulating material is used in the heat accumulator, various structural schemes of the heat accumulator system are possible ...
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I April 30 2019 16: 29
          +1
          Or .... you can cite the following "excerpt":
        2. Saxahorse
          Saxahorse April 30 2019 19: 29
          +1
          You still torsion fields screw do not forget :)

          All the great features of the Stirling engine, as were discovered in theory, remained in theory. Materials capable of withstanding the thermal and physical loads of the Stirling engine have not really been invented. What has been done and works still has a meager resource. And so yes .. In theory, everything is great ..
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 1 May 2019 02: 38
            0
            Quote: Saxahorse
            You still torsion fields screw do not forget :)

            But Kolya Tesla was not too lazy to screw and he, as they say, turned out! In general, the well-known truth ...: who does not want to do, he is looking for reasons ... (not to do ...), and who wants, he does!
          2. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 1 May 2019 02: 50
            0
            Quote: Saxahorse
            All the great possibilities of the Stirling engine, as they were discovered in theory, remained in theory.

            Unfortunately, I made a mistake: I only mentioned the Stirling engine ... from the entire list! And that is why some "readers" have the opinion that the main "component" of a comment is "styling"! But this is not the case! The main thing in the commentary is "thermal storage batteries"! And not only stirlings, but also other heat engines can work together with the battery .... as well as thermoelectric and thermionic generators!
  11. 123456789
    123456789 April 30 2019 11: 58
    0
    "Either he stole, or it was stolen from him, in general there was some dark story there."
    Yes, a joke, from the same series “spoons were found, but the sediment remained.”
    https://pravdoryb.info/na-voennom-obozrenii-raskryt-zagovor.html
    1. antique
      antique 1 May 2019 10: 28
      +1
      Quote: 123456789
      Yes, a joke, from the same series “spoons were found, but the sediment remained.”
      https://pravdoryb.info/na-voennom-obozrenii-raskryt-zagovor.html

      I began to read, I felt uneasy. I read it to the end, as it was easier. Next time you warn right away. belay
  12. anzar
    anzar April 30 2019 12: 37
    0
    Nuclear reactor for non-nuclear submarine (NNS). The contradiction lies in the title itself ...

    Why use this abbreviation NAPL, and not just PL? At one time, A was added to the submarine as a difference between nuclear submarines and conventional ones. Now what, "difference differences", have atomic become "common"? If you do not want to simply submarine, then it is better to call them DEPL, without or with something (VNEU; VSSAU; ...)
    Apparently this term NNS was created in the United States, the fleet of which has only nuclear submarines. And he went through the magazines "theorists".
    And the position is good! To decide which is better, the author correctly identifies the "issue price". My opinion is that "Husky" can be cheap if they abandon the "limiting parameters" of nuclear weapons (the military usually "optimizes" the technique) in terms of volume, weight, degree of fuel enrichment ... and as a result, the power of nuclear weapons is enough only for "average" course. Full electric propulsion. Maximum speed is achieved (temporarily) with the help of a powerful Akum. battery .... In max. stealth reactor (with natural circulation) and the TG can be stopped)) This is a hybrid, but the nuclear reactor is the main one, not the auxiliary one (there are no diesel engines, only an emergency DG). But again the price of the issue is unknown
    1. Shopping Mall
      1 May 2019 12: 56
      0
      Quote: anzar
      Nuclear reactor for non-nuclear submarine (NNS). The contradiction lies in the title itself ...

      And why use this abbreviation NNT, and not just a submarine?


      Now it has become a common name for distinguishing "clean" diesel-electric submarines from submarines with VNEU or other non-nuclear solutions.
      1. anzar
        anzar 1 May 2019 14: 17
        0
        With a holiday!
        Now it has become a common name ...

        Yes, but it is not correct. Apparently the Americans have invented, they have "normal" submarines - it's a nuclear submarine, others are dumb))
        ... to distinguish "clean" diesel-electric submarines from submarines with VNEU

        And how do you distinguish? After all, "submarine with VNEU" is also diesel-electric submarines, and all together are non-nuclear (non-nuclear submarines)).
        But God bless him, abbreviations, one distortion (reverse word-editor) PLARK is worth something! Worse is the fact that some authors of the nuclear submarine are PLA (for euphony), others have a strategist of the SSBN and "cruisers" (SSBN) ... An old joke is in mind where the hero knew all the abbreviations, that's just what it means on many doors INPUT?)))
  13. Undecim
    Undecim April 30 2019 13: 19
    +4
    As I understood the author’s idea, in view of the absence of air-independent power plants (VNEU), he suggests using a nuclear power generating unit (NPI) with dual circuit performance of a fast neutron nuclear reactor using high-temperature liquid metal coolant (LMT) lead-bismuth in 1 ohm for the same purpose contour, and gaseous (or ion-modified) working fluid CO2 of high pressure (close to the state of supercriticism) in the 2 circuit.
    True, the article on the generation of electricity is not a word. Meanwhile, the reactor itself does not generate electricity, it generates thermal energy, for converting which into electrical power in a low-power nuclear power plant a gas turbine (second circuit) is used, which is the drive of an electric generator.
    It looks something like this.

    1 - sealed housing; 2 - core of a nuclear reactor; 3 - grates of dumping nuclear fuel from the core; 4 - containers for fuel discharge; 5 - thermal partition; 6 - ultrasonic control equipment; 7 - control unit; 8 - control and protection system (CPS); 9 - gas valve; 10 - channel CPS; 11 - recuperator 1 for heating; 12 - gas turbine; 13 - recuperator 2 main; 14 - compressor; 15 - compressor electric motor; 16 - supporting rings; 17 - magnetically transparent wall of the housing; 18 - feed-through transformer high voltage; 19 - electric generator; 20 - pump ЖМТ circulating of the 1st reactor loop; 21 - heat exchanger of the 1st circuit.
    As can be seen from the diagram, the device is replete with devices such as a gas turbine and compressors, which are by no means suitable for installation on a submarine due to their noise. For some reason (I suspect - out of ignorance) the author does not stop at this question at all. Meanwhile, a gas turbine will be heard from Murmansk to Florida. How is the author going to resolve this issue? So for now, the author’s proposal is a project of an amateur, may the author forgive me.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim April 30 2019 13: 38
      +1
      Dollegeal Egg
      From the very beginning, in an effort to increase the range of the 651 submersible diesel-electric submarines, the designers laid silver-zinc batteries instead of lead-acid batteries. In practice, it turned out that silver-zinc batteries have two critical drawbacks: high cost and short service life (up to 100 charge-discharge cycles), which determined the return to lead-acid batteries.
      ...
      ...As a solution, the creation of a small-sized nuclear reactor, the so-called “Dollezhal egg”, was named after its creator Nikolai Dollezhal, the chief designer of atomic reactors for the USSR Navy.
      Here the author missed several important points.
      First, they refused from silver - zinc batteries not because of their high prices (they did not save on defense in the USSR), but because of the elementary lack of silver. As a result, the number of boats with silver-zinc batteries decided to reduce to 10, and then to three.
      And the second point, the most important one. "Dollezhal's Egg" is a reactor with a thermoelectric converter, without turbines and electric generators.
      For thermoelectric generators, semiconductor thermoelectric materials are used, but today there is no thermoelectric material that fully satisfies the industry with its properties and allows us to consider a thermoelectric generator as an alternative power plant.
      Regarding the use of nuclear power plants - wrote above.
      1. Shopping Mall
        1 May 2019 12: 53
        0
        Quote: Undecim
        Here the author missed several important points.
        First, they refused from silver - zinc batteries not because of their high prices (they did not save on defense in the USSR), but because of the elementary lack of silver. As a result, the number of boats with silver-zinc batteries decided to reduce to 10, and then to three.


        This is one of the versions. Show these batteries excellent parameters, silver would be found for such an important business, and the price of silver is not at all prohibitive, it is not gold or platinum. But the resource in 100 charge-discharge cycles is clearly unacceptable.

        Quote: Undecim
        And the second point, the most important one. "Dollezhal's Egg" is a reactor with a thermoelectric converter, without turbines and electric generators.
        For thermoelectric generators, semiconductor thermoelectric materials are used, but today there is no thermoelectric material that fully satisfies the industry with its properties and allows us to consider a thermoelectric generator as an alternative power plant.
        Regarding the use of nuclear power plants - wrote above.


        Really?

        651E modification

        The 651E modification project was developed to increase the combat effectiveness of diesel submarines (quite numerous in those years) by equipping the diesel-electric submarines with an auxiliary nuclear power plant. This would increase the autonomy of diesel-electric submarines in a submerged position. In practice, this proposal was expressed in tests on the basis of the X-NUMX K-68 submarine of the 651 project. The project received the cipher 651E, the project was developed by the Central Design Bureau "Lazurit". The choice of the base for testing was largely due to the fact that after switching from silver-zinc batteries to standard lead-acid batteries, the performance of boats of the 651 project deteriorated significantly. Nuclear power plant was designed to correct the situation.
        NPP type VEU-6 with reactor TVP-4 designed NIKIET, bench testing was carried out by NITI. The boiling type reactor had a thermal power of 5 MW, the turbogenerator produced 600 kW of electricity. The wind turbine was made in a cylindrical case with a diameter of 2,9 m, a length of 6,5 m, a mass of 70 tons and was located in a niche under the aft compartment, outside a solid hull. There was a transitional hatch from the aft compartment to the housing of the wind turbine.
        An auxiliary nuclear power plant was installed on the boat after a major overhaul in 1985. Subsequent tests allowed to evaluate the features of the use of such power plants on diesel submarines. The nuclear power unit progressed to submerge up to 6 nodes at a distance of up to 7000 miles. In 1993, the submarine was removed from operating units and transferred for recycling. WOW-6 was in working condition and did not develop its resource. In 2005, the reactor core was unloaded and transferred for recycling. The series of nuclear reactors for diesel-electric submarines did not go.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 1 May 2019 13: 08
          0
          Really what? What did you want to say?
          1. Shopping Mall
            1 May 2019 13: 10
            0
            Quote: Undecim
            the turbogenerator gave out 600 kW of electricity


            That different projects were considered, and a non-thermoelectric converter was implemented:

            From the quotation above:
            NPP type VEU-6 with reactor TVP-4 designed NIKIET, bench testing was carried out by NITI. The boiling type reactor had a thermal power of 5 MW, the turbogenerator produced 600 kW of electricity.

            the turbogenerator gave out 600 kW of electricity - not a thermoelectric converter, without turbines and electric generators.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 1 May 2019 13: 17
              0
              Andrei, are you trying to prove something to me, or yourself? I somewhere expressed doubts that did the turbine generator give out? My comment was specifically about "Dollezhal's Egg", which is a thermoelectric converter. Therefore, I can not understand your fuss.
              1. Shopping Mall
                1 May 2019 13: 23
                0
                Quote: Undecim
                Andrei, are you trying to prove something to me, or yourself? I somewhere expressed doubts that did the turbine generator give out? My comment was specifically about "Dollezhal's Egg", which is a thermoelectric converter. Therefore, I can not understand your fuss.


                And I am not "fiddling", but answering your comments, which seem unfounded to me. Perhaps initially the "Dollezhal's egg" was considered precisely as a thermoelectric source of energy, but in reality it was embodied already as a reactor with a turbine generator, which was made by just professionals, who for some reason did not think that it would make noise, as you said
                Meanwhile, the gas turbine will be heard from Murmansk to Florida.


                And it was in 85, i.e. just before the collapse of the USSR, perhaps that is why they didn’t bring it to mind, and perhaps because the USSR and full-fledged nuclear-powered ships had more than they could contain.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 1 May 2019 13: 36
                  +1
                  Perhaps initially "Dollezhal's egg" was considered precisely as a thermoelectric energy source
                  It was precisely a thermoelectric power source. Since the idea did not justify itself, we switched to projects of nuclear power plants with classical generating equipment, but this is a completely different question. Almost three decades of experiments with "semi-nuclear" boats have shown that this is a dead-end path. Like "normal heroes always go around". VNEU needs to develop normal ones.
    2. Shopping Mall
      1 May 2019 12: 44
      0
      Quote: Undecim
      As I understood the author’s idea, in view of the absence of air-independent power plants (VNEU), he suggests using a nuclear power generating unit (NPI) with dual circuit performance of a fast neutron nuclear reactor using high-temperature liquid metal coolant (LMT) lead-bismuth in 1 ohm for the same purpose contour, and gaseous (or ion-modified) working fluid CO2 of high pressure (close to the state of supercriticism) in the 2 circuit.
      True, the article on the generation of electricity is not a word. Meanwhile, the reactor itself does not generate electricity, it generates thermal energy, for converting which into electrical power in a low-power nuclear power plant a gas turbine (second circuit) is used, which is the drive of an electric generator.


      In the projects of the reactor "Vityaz" and ATGOR generator on the second machine, which allows you to get an idea of ​​its mass and dimensional characteristics. In the project "Shelf" the reactor and turbine in one capsule. Read carefully.

      Quote: Undecim
      As can be seen from the diagram, the device is replete with devices such as a gas turbine and compressors, which by no means are suitable for installation on a submarine due to their noise. For some reason, the author (I suspect, through ignorance) does not stop at all on this question. Meanwhile, the gas turbine will be heard from Murmansk to Florida. How is the author going to resolve this issue?


      First, the issues of reducing noise should be addressed at the design stages. Secondly, an isolated capsule can presumably be placed on vibration-absorbing supports, which will help further reduce the transmission of vibrations to the body.

      Quote: Undecim
      So while the author's proposal is the project of the dilletant, may the author forgive me.

      Offer something better, oh wise professional.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 1 May 2019 13: 11
        0
        Offer something better, oh wise professional.
        I suggest. Specialists of this particular business should deal with each case. For "The trouble is, if the shoemaker starts to bake the pies, and the cake-maker uses his boots, and things won't go well."
        1. Shopping Mall
          1 May 2019 13: 27
          -1
          Quote: Undecim
          Offer something better, oh wise professional.
          I suggest. Specialists of this particular business should deal with each case. For "The trouble is, if the shoemaker starts to bake the pies, and the cake-maker uses his boots, and things won't go well."


          Do not worry, at such a pace you will soon read and watch only purely professional reports and articles in the Pravda newspaper and on the Zvezda TV channel.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 1 May 2019 13: 43
            +2
            Actually, I don’t worry, because I have the opportunity to communicate with professionals on issues that interest me. As for the media you mentioned, where you can safely classify the VO website as well, they are not spent on professionals, since hamsters are not interested in profound professional materials. Hence the quality of materials, and the selection of authors.
            Type Kamenev is an analyst and the east wind is a historian.
            1. Shopping Mall
              1 May 2019 13: 48
              +2
              Why, then, do you read the resource, the readers of which you call "hamsters", and comment on the articles of the authors who are "non-professionals"? This is some kind of masochism ...

              For example, it does not occur to me to read and comment on any "Mediums of Russia" or "Superhoroscope of the Universe", if such exist.
  14. Tektor
    Tektor April 30 2019 14: 07
    +1
    As for the introduction of the Liotech batteries on the submarines, I think that this should be done, because the fleet needs to increase their performance characteristics. It is clear that the fleet and the army need proven components. And these batteries are precisely such.!. Unfortunately, the specific power of Liotech's LiFePO270 cell of the LFP4 cell is about 90 W * h / kg, while the best serial ones today are about 2 times larger and the record ones are 400 W * h / kg. But the latter can not be used in conditions associated with the risk to the lives of military personnel without conducting the whole complex of tests. And the progress in this type of products is now going at a frantic pace. And you need to have time to integrate.
    1. Shopping Mall
      1 May 2019 23: 08
      0
      Quote: Tektor
      As for the introduction of the Liotech batteries on the submarines, I think that this should be done, because the fleet needs to increase their performance characteristics. It is clear that the fleet and the army need proven components. And these batteries are precisely such.!. Unfortunately, the specific power of Liotech's LiFePO270 cell of the LFP4 cell is about 90 W * h / kg, while the best serial ones today are about 2 times larger and the record ones are 400 W * h / kg. But the latter can not be used in conditions associated with the risk to the lives of military personnel without conducting the whole complex of tests. And the progress in this type of products is now going at a frantic pace. And you need to have time to integrate.


      I agree. Their specific capacity in 2-3 is higher than lead-acid. Even without the limiting parameters of the latest, but explosive lithium batteries, this will allow proportionally increase the parameters of the submarine.
  15. Operator
    Operator April 30 2019 17: 42
    -4
    Quote: Antique
    Nothing is built in the hardware

    Nuclear power plant "Peresvet" - 10 MW to reach from the Earth to the satellites.
    1. antique
      antique 1 May 2019 10: 30
      0
      Quote: Operator
      Nuclear power plant "Peresvet" - 10 MW to reach from the Earth to the satellites.

      You are not mistaken? Is it not the output power of the laser itself?
      1. Operator
        Operator 1 May 2019 11: 56
        0
        This is the output power of the electric generator driven by the turbine unit of the NPP.

        The efficiency of conversion of electricity into laser radiation can be estimated at the level of 30-50%, i.e. the output power of the laser when operating in continuous mode will be from 3 to 5 MW, when using a capacitor drive and operating in pulsed mode - from 30 to 50 MW.

        It is more profitable to place the Peresvet installation itself not on a vehicle chassis, but on an IL-76TD type air carrier with a flight altitude of 12 km to minimize the influence of the atmosphere and expand the coverage of the orbits of satellites disabled by laser radiation. Most likely, they will do so after the completion of tests on an automobile chassis.
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 2 May 2019 19: 02
          -1
          But what about "not falling below the floor"? An aircraft with nuclear weapons is a big risk, IMHO.
          1. Operator
            Operator 2 May 2019 21: 38
            -3
            Americans for 25 years carried out regular flights of B-52 with several 9-Mtn bombs over densely populated areas of the United States and Europe, fell several times with them, including in Florida and Spain.

            The place of deployment of the Il-76TD with "Peresvet" can be made in the Arctic regions with the possibility of flooding the reactor, the reactor itself can be equipped with a system of ejection and parachute descent in the event of an emergency - as on experimental nuclear aircraft of the 1960s. Flights on a permanent basis with a different geography will be carried out only during a special period, and not in peacetime.
            1. Horse, people and soul
              Horse, people and soul 2 May 2019 21: 46
              0
              Dear friend, nuclear bombs and a working nuclear reactor are completely different technical devices in terms of the consequences in the event of a plane crash. Not a single lost bomb exploded, but the fall of an unmuffled reactor would definitely be a "dirty bomb". Like Chernobyl.
  16. Operator
    Operator April 30 2019 17: 52
    -2
    Quote: AVM
    regards to the Japanese

    What does the Japanese fleet have to do with it if, in the event of a conflict, the Japanese islands themselves turn into a branch of Novaya Zemlya of the 1961 model, adjusted for radioactive plumes 700 km long each from the third stages of the Poseidon warhead pair?

    After that, the Japanese islands will immediately become the South Kuriles, the Sea of ​​Japan - the Sakhalin, and the Japanese fleet - the Sino-Korean.
    1. xASPIDx
      xASPIDx April 30 2019 21: 37
      0
      Well, not one but the same Americans very much doubt about the bases in Japan, especially that they don’t have sensible air defense there, it’s not a metropolis and the reb, however, we should not forget here already in front of the whole planet. Yes, and ship cm 6 is already very much overrated, it is one thing to shoot down a target in a training ground and another when they directionally interfere with the painfully delicate brains of ova missiles. Remember when in Syria, from more than 50 axes, less than half flew, and those that flew burned a couple of grades and several half-dismantled ruins.
    2. Shopping Mall
      1 May 2019 23: 04
      -1
      Quote: Operator
      Quote: AVM
      regards to the Japanese

      What does the Japanese fleet have to do with it if, in the event of a conflict, the Japanese islands themselves turn into a branch of Novaya Zemlya of the 1961 model, adjusted for radioactive plumes 700 km long each from the third stages of the Poseidon warhead pair?

      After that, the Japanese islands will immediately become the South Kuriles, the Sea of ​​Japan - the Sakhalin, and the Japanese fleet - the Sino-Korean.


      If you rely only on nuclear weapons, then we are no different from North Korea, and I don't like this comparison at all. Actually, I am always in favor of the development of nuclear potential, up to the rejection of restrictions on the quantity and the projection of its "influence" in peacetime, as I wrote earlier - https://topwar.ru/152503-konversija-sily.html. But general-purpose forces are also needed, and they must work without the use of nuclear weapons.

      Imagine a situation of conflict with Japan, the United States does not intervene (let's say), but we blow through the naval war, lose the Kuriles and use nuclear weapons in Japan. After that, the US will rally the whole world against us. The result - a complete blockade and friendship with all sorts of dictatorial slop, for decades at least. And our territory, Sakhalin, Vladivostok, etc., also does not seem to be much, the radiation is such a thing ...

      In isolation, not one country can develop and compete with the whole world. Suddenly, after 50-100 years, it turns out that the force fields, nanorobots and other miracles have been invented, and we, in isolation with Iran and North Korea, made the 100500 bomb, from which there is no longer any use, because it can be turned off in the mine .
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 2 May 2019 21: 59
        0
        In isolation, not one country can develop and compete with the whole world. Suddenly, after 50-100 years, it turns out that the force fields, nanorobots and other miracles have been invented, and we, in isolation with Iran and North Korea, made the 100500 bomb, from which there is no longer any use, because it can be turned off in the mine .


        I would not despair so much about isolation. The USSR was all isolated in isolation, but was stronger than Russia in the sense that it was respected through the fear of receiving a nuclear club from the Communists.

        At the expense of the Empire of Lies, I, too, would not evaluate their future through such rose-colored glasses. IMHO, the United States is stubbornly moving towards its "perestroika". In the country of lawyers, dentists and dog stylists, only immigrants taken from Russia, China and India are engaged in real business.

        Lying as a means to an end can only be useful in the near term. If the goal cannot be achieved with the help of lies in a fairly short time, then the lie becomes a catalyst for its own catastrophic and inevitable defeat. (WITH)


        The empire of lies cannot defeat Russia. And Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan? Bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan.

        The empire of lies could not even do anything with the North Koreans even today. The whole world fought against North Korea in the 50s (UN troops). Against Korean communists and Chinese volunteers. And Soviet military experts.
      2. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 2 May 2019 22: 18
        -1
        ... made the 100500-th bomb, from which there is no longer any good, because they can turn it off right in the mine.


        Why do Americans need (smart) missiles with nuclear warheads, and the North Koreans can rub in bullshit about their missiles, having only nuclear warheads?

        Ideology. Loyalty to the idea. Fanaticism, if you want ...

        The northern countries can easily hire a container ship through a third country, load a nuclear warhead there, place their Juche fanatics there and send them to the sea to listen to the radio. As the desired song is transmitted to the agreed time, the ship will go to the US Pacific ports and fanatics will blow up the nuclear warhead there. At the cost of life, for the sake of the idea.

        Americans are so weak. And they understand this well. Therefore, they threatened, tried to take on a bluff, and passed back. Understood what it smells.
        1. Shopping Mall
          2 May 2019 23: 30
          0
          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          ... made the 100500-th bomb, from which there is no longer any good, because they can turn it off right in the mine.


          Why do Americans need (smart) missiles with nuclear warheads, and the North Koreans can rub in bullshit about their missiles, having only nuclear warheads?

          Ideology. Loyalty to the idea. Fanaticism, if you want ...

          The northern countries can easily hire a container ship through a third country, load a nuclear warhead there, place their Juche fanatics there and send them to the sea to listen to the radio. As the desired song is transmitted to the agreed time, the ship will go to the US Pacific ports and fanatics will blow up the nuclear warhead there. At the cost of life, for the sake of the idea.

          Americans are so weak. And they understand this well. Therefore, they threatened, tried to take on a bluff, and passed back. Understood what it smells.


          That's just something no one wants to immigrate to North Korea and Iran, and in the US as the brains from all over the world went and went.

          And the fact that North Korea was not broken up is not the fact that the reason is in fear. Most likely, it is just convenient for them as an excuse for the military budget, as we are. Of course, we are not due to military weakness, but I am sure that the US leadership, real, understands that, given the number of Russian leaders and their children with dual citizenship, no one in Russia will be the first to strike the United States. But as an excuse for military contracts, we are very much suited ...
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul 3 May 2019 00: 04
            0
            And the fact that North Korea is not gouged, it is not a fact that the reason is fear.


            It’s just that the USA is not the same anymore ... they will not turn up to fight if there is a danger that they will get a snot. Because nuclear weapons will now be desired by many countries. For insurance.

            It’s one thing to shake a flask of salt from the UN buffet, another when you know that there really are nuclear weapons.
  17. Operator
    Operator April 30 2019 18: 02
    -2
    Quote: Undecim
    the device is replete with devices such as gas turbines and compressors, which by no means are suitable for installation on a submarine due to their noise

    At all, without exception, the submarine of the YSU includes a steam turbine, which is no less than a gas noise. This is fought with the help of active shock absorbers and noise-absorbing coatings for the submarine hull - from the inside with a polymer filled with evacuated glass microspheres, from the outside with a multifunctional rubber coating.

    The reason is simple: the coefficient of conversion of thermal energy of the reactor into mechanical energy using a steam turbine is equal to 30%, using a thermoelectric generator and an electric motor with a gearbox - 6%.
  18. ser56
    ser56 April 30 2019 18: 34
    +1
    The idea is true, but they forgot about space reactors: (from Wiki)
    "The next Soviet space nuclear power plant was the TEU-5" Topol "(" Topaz-1 "), first launched into orbit on February 2, 1987 as part of the experimental spacecraft" Plasma-A "(" Cosmos-1818 "). Work on" Topaz "has been conducted since the 1960s. Ground tests were started in 1970. The main designer was" Krasnaya Zvezda ". [6]
    The fuel in the reactor was uranium dioxide with 90% enrichment, a coolant potassium-sodium melt. [6] The reactor had a thermal power of 150 kW, and the amount of 235U in the reactor was reduced to 11,5 kg compared to 30 kg in BES-5 Buk.
    A thermionic converter of thermal energy into electrical energy was used in "Topaz". [6] Such a converter is like an electronic lamp: a tungsten-coated molybdenum cathode heated to a high temperature emits electrons that pass through the gap filled with cesium ions under low pressure and reach the anode. The electrical circuit is closed through the load. The output electrical power of the converter was from 5 to 6,6 kW. "
    Installing 50 (300 kW) of such reactors (their size and weight are small) will completely ensure a quiet running and power supply of the systems ... Activate and use the reactors only during the threatened and military period (resource of the year) - so there will be no overcharge problem ... request
  19. Operator
    Operator 1 May 2019 14: 28
    0
    Quote: Undecim
    It was precisely the thermoelectric source of energy that it was. Since the idea did not justify itself, we moved on to projects of nuclear power plants with classic generating equipment.

    Achieving an acceptable efficiency of a thermoelectric converter at the 10% level is possible only with a large temperature difference, which means switching to new coolants in the NPS cooling system - lead in the primary circuit (1000 K) and supercritical carbon dioxide in the secondary circuit (310 K).

    The silicon-germanium thermoelectric thermal converter is operational up to 1500 K. The heat-resistant nickel alloy at 1500 K holds the load from the pressure of carbon dioxide in the 74 atmosphere.

    In the design of the reactor and the inter-loop heat exchanger, it will be necessary to use a bimetallic material - steel based on silicon from the side of the lead coolant and a nickel alloy from the side of carbon dioxide. Plus a pure zirconium fuel rod design.

    The case remains for the small - Dollekhal's egg reincarnation laughing
  20. Operator
    Operator 2 May 2019 01: 03
    0
    Quote: AVM
    Imagine a situation of conflict with Japan, the United States does not intervene (let's say), but we blow through the naval war, lose the Kuriles and use nuclear weapons in Japan

    To be honest: I can not imagine that Japan decided to commit suicide with the sole purpose to annoy Russia - in the form of universal ostracism (with the exception of China, North and South Korea, who will be grateful to us).

    In my opinion, it is much more realistic to proceed from the instinct of self-preservation of potential opponents and the well-known position of the Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation (on a nuclear strike in the event of an attack on the national territory of the Russian Federation, including using conventional weapons).

    As for radioactive fallout, the length of the plume of their fallout does not exceed 700 km even with an 100-Mtn explosion, and the distance from Tokyo to Vladivostok exceeds this value. At the same time, the probability of coincidence of the wind direction with azimuth to Vladivostok is several percent.

    PS Russia is the Heartland of this planet, so it cannot be subjected to universal ostracism, especially since ideologically we have no contradictions with anyone - unlike the USSR.
  21. Operator
    Operator 2 May 2019 01: 59
    -1
    Quote: AVM
    in 50-100 years, it turns out that the force fields, nanorobots and other wonders have been invented, and we are isolated with Iran and North Korea

    This is a logical mistake: "give up your territory today, so as not to be isolated tomorrow," because you concede in reality, when isolation is still virtual, while everyone begins to make territorial claims to you, such as you will not oppose in any way, and if you do, that's all. isolation will come, then why be shy in choosing the means?

    At the same time, isolation is never absolute: at the end of the 1940s, the USSR was in isolation, and the secret of "force fields, nanorobots and other miracles" - that is, atomic weapons were still obtained.
    1. Shopping Mall
      2 May 2019 12: 42
      0
      Quote: Operator
      Quote: AVM
      in 50-100 years, it turns out that the force fields, nanorobots and other wonders have been invented, and we are isolated with Iran and North Korea

      This is a logical mistake: "give up your territory today, so as not to be isolated tomorrow," because you concede in reality, when isolation is still virtual, while everyone begins to make territorial claims to you, such as you will not oppose in any way, and if you do, that's all. isolation will come, then why be shy in choosing the means?


      Did I somewhere talk about the concessions of the territory? No, it’s about the fact that we should be able to cope with countries of Japan or Turkey without nuclear weapons, and to absolutely dominate them.

      Yes, now the Russian Federation, and in the foreseeable future, is not able to cope with the US and NATO, even for the USSR and the Warsaw bloc it was a difficult task, but we should be able to crush every little thing without nuclear weapons. But to unleash a NATO car, not allowing others to enter into conflict should the self-preservation instinct help us before using nuclear weapons.

      Quote: Operator
      At the same time, isolation is never absolute: at the end of the 1940s, the USSR was in isolation, and the secret of "force fields, nanorobots and other miracles" - that is, atomic weapons were still obtained.


      It got it largely thanks to "soft power", a regime that promoted, albeit in many respects in words, equality, an attractive world order, which made people cooperate (not only for money). Do we have this resource now?
  22. Operator
    Operator 2 May 2019 15: 26
    0
    Quote: AVM
    with countries like Japan or Turkey, we should be able to cope without nuclear weapons

    For the Russian Federation, there is no threat of attack not only from Japan or Turkey, but also from France, Britain, India, Pakistan and Israel because of the consequences that they understand - total defeat in a military conflict with the use of nuclear weapons. Therefore, our ability to cope with them conventional weapons does not play any role.
    The Russian Federation should be able to cope only with the NATO + satellites alliance - with the use of nuclear weapons, of course.

    Extracted largely due to "soft power"

    The secret of the atomic bomb of the USSR was obtained thanks to the principled position of the developers of American nuclear weapons - preventing the use of these weapons by creating a balance of power between the US and the USSR (see memoirs of the participants in the Manhattan Project).
    At the same time, project participants ignored ideological differences between them and the leadership of the USSR. Now this barrier is completely absent.
  23. Operator
    Operator 2 May 2019 21: 59
    0
    Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
    the fall of an unmuffled reactor will definitely be a "dirty bomb". Like Chernobyl

    The weight of the core of the Chernobol reactor is 300 tons, the weight of the reactor core of the Peresvet nuclear power plant is 300 kg.

    The linear dimensions of the Peresvet nuclear power plant itself are about 1 meter, i.e. it can be protected from a strike just as well as the nuclear bombs that the Americans lost in plane crashes.
  24. Shopping Mall
    19 May 2019 11: 35
    0
    Project SVBR-100
    The SVBR-100 project is a pilot for Rosatom in the implementation of large-scale high-tech projects in the nuclear industry together with a commercial partner.

    A new form of project implementation is also associated with not only attracting external commercial investments, but also creating a joint venture to manage the project and develop business.

    The project is being implemented within the framework of the Federal Target Program "Nuclear Energy Technologies of a New Generation for the Period of 2010-2015 and Prospects until 2020" and is one of the projects of the Council for Economic Modernization and Innovative Development of Russia chaired by the Prime Minister of the Russian Federation in the framework of the direction "New Technological Platform : Closed Nuclear Fuel Cycle and Fast Reactors ".

    The final product of the project is the basic technology of a fast neutron reactor with lead-bismuth coolant, adapted to civilian projects, with the creation of a modular power unit with a capacity of 100 MW (e) and a related product line, multiple of 100 MW.

    The SVBR-100 reactor installation is one of the main components of an innovative nuclear energy system based on the use of unified low-power reactor installations of the SVBR type with fast reactors cooled by a liquid metal lead-bismuth coolant.

    An important distinctive feature of the reactor is the integral (monoblock) layout of the primary circuit equipment, in which all primary circuit equipment (the reactor itself, steam generator modules, main circulation pumps, etc.) are housed in a single case with the complete absence of pipelines and primary circuit fittings.

    The main participants of the project:
    JSC OKB "Gidropress" (Podolsk)
    OJSC "Leading Institute" VNIPIET "(St. Petersburg)
    FSUE SSC-RF IPPE (Obninsk)

    Milestones of the project:
    2010-2016 - R & D and design work on the reactor plant and the OPEB power unit
    2016-2019 - OPEB construction and equipment supply
    2019 g. - physical and energy launch OPEB
    2024-2025 - serial production and delivery of complete equipment.

    Competitive advantages of SVBR-100 in the market of small and medium-sized speakers:
    The properties of internal self-protection and passive safety (at the physical level) of SVBR-100 RP allow to significantly reduce the design complexity of power units and use the modular construction principle.

    The design of SVBR-100 RP lays down the requirements for universality of the type of fuel used, which allows you to quickly switch to the use of MOX, and later nitride fuel - laying the foundations for “self-sufficiency” of fuel in a closed nuclear fuel cycle.

    The design and parameters of the switchgear make it possible to adjust the production of switchgear modules at the factory and delivery to the installation site by rail or road, which significantly reduces labor costs and the time needed to build the NPP. It is assumed that the mass production of RP will allow to reduce the cost of production and stable product quality.

    Market potential:
    According to the IAEA estimates, the global demand for low and medium power reactors (100-400 MW) to 2040 is 500-1000 units. The total capacity of this market segment is estimated at 300-600 billion.

    The number of low and medium power projects of this type existing in the world is minimal. The SVBR-100 technology in its main parameters belongs to the 4th generation of nuclear reactors and will help to provide Russia with the status of a technological leader in the global nuclear power industry.

    SVBR-100 could potentially become the world's first fourth-generation commercial reactor of medium power using heat carrier on heavy metals and take 10-15% of the emerging global market for atomic energy of small and medium power.





    http://www.akmeengineering.com/svbr.html