Military Review

RUAG Cobra (Switzerland): futuristic-looking mortar

71
In the international arms market there is a significant amount of self-propelled mortars and mortar installations for mounting on equipment. One of the most interesting developments of this kind is the Cobra system of the Swiss company RUAG Defense. This project was presented in 2015 year, and to date, according to the results of tests, a Cobra-based self-propelled mortar has been recommended for adoption by the Swiss army.


Based on known solutions


Product RUAG Cobra is a mortar combat module in the form of a turntable, weapons and controls, assembled into a single structure. A characteristic feature of this module is the presence of several covers, giving it a recognizable futuristic appearance. The module can be mounted on various wheeled and tracked platforms that can withstand loads when firing. In the construction of a mortar there are no fundamentally new solutions, however, it is a rather successful compilation of well-known and mastered ideas.



The main element of the Cobra system is a smooth-bore 120-mm mortar, charged from the barrel. The standard barrel length is 2 m. There is also a modification with a trunk shortened to 1,6 m. For conducting firing practice, it is proposed to use a barrel liner with an internal diameter of 81 mm - this allows the preparation of mortar guns using less expensive ammunition. The barrel is suspended on hydropneumatic recoil devices and is associated with guidance systems.

Directly above the barrel is placed loading mechanism. The ammunition is offered to be laid manually on the machine, after which the mechanisms independently send it in the direction of the barrel and are placed in a tubular cassette. Then the cassette is aligned with the mortar point, and the mine goes into the barrel. After removing the cassette from the barrel, a shot is fired. The moving parts of the loading mechanism operating near the muzzle of the mortar are equipped with shields.

At the request of the customer, the Cobra system can be manufactured without a loading mechanism. In this case, the mortar turns into a muzzle-loading gun with manual loading, but retains all other fighting qualities.



Mortar targeting is carried out using electric actuators integrated into a turntable. Horizontal circular guidance or with restrictions on the design of the carrier machine. Vertical - up to 75-80 hail. Changing the elevation angle for loading is not required.

All processes are controlled from the gunner’s console. It is located on the side of the swinging part and has all the necessary controls, as well as a monitor for issuing information. The fire control system includes satellite navigation, a ballistic computer and aiming control devices. The OMS is connected to the communications and command and control facilities, which simplifies target acquisition and processing of target data.

Provides several modes of firing. In particular, there is an MRSI mode. There is a training mode in which shooting data are calculated for 81-mm min.



The promotional materials indicate the ease of the gunner and the speed of the SLA. The first shot can be made less than a minute after entering the position. RUAG Cobra self-propelled mortar can drop out of position immediately after completing the shooting without any preparation.

The product RUAG Cobra has a limited size that allows you to mount it on different armored platforms. The weight of the combat module in the complete set - 1350 kg. Rejection of the loading mechanism facilitates the module on the 150 kg. In addition to the mortar system itself, the carrier must be installed laying for the ammunition necessary capacity. Calculation of the combat module - two or three people. The operator-gunner and one or two loaders should work with him.



The Cobra can use any existing unguided and guided mortar mines of the 120 caliber mm. When using the main "long" barrel range reaches 7-9 km. A shortened barrel or training mode involving the use of an 81-mm liner shortens the range.

First order


The RUAG Cobra system was first shown to the public and to specialists in 2015. By this time, factory tests were performed using the combat module and the carrier vehicle. In May, the 2016 began testing with real shooting. Around this time, the Swiss army became interested in the project, looking for new artillery systems to supplement the existing ones.

In early April, 2019, it became known that the Swiss armed forces would soon sign a contract to supply the Cob in the configuration of self-propelled mortars. Army 32 required such machines, with which it is planned to close the remaining niche in the field of artillery for firing from closed positions. 120-mm self-propelled mortars will fill the gap between 81-mm mortars and 155-mm self-propelled M109L47 self-propelled guns.



Self-propelled mortars for Switzerland will be built on the basis of the four-axle chassis GDELS-MOWAG Piranha 3 +. To install the Cobra module, such a chassis receives a low superstructure above the aft compartment. Inside the corps it is planned to install the actual combat module, space for mortars and stacking for ammunition. The crew of a self-propelled mortar for Switzerland will consist of four people - the driver, the commander-gunner and two loaders. The combat weight of the armored vehicle is 30 t. The driving characteristics do not suffer from new weapons.

The RUAG Cobra self-propelled mortar on the Piranha 3 + chassis has already been tested and recommended for use. However, the supply contract has not been signed yet. It may appear this year, and the first serial armored vehicles will go to the troops not earlier than the next.

Market prospects


Obviously, RUAG Defense created the Cobra mortar for entering the international market and obtaining profitable orders. First supply contract weapons own army will appear in the near future, and in the future it is possible to receive new orders. However, we should not forget that Kobre has to face special conditions in the market and with serious competition.

RUAG Cobra (Switzerland): futuristic-looking mortar


The company-developer notes some main advantages of its combat module. The Cobra product is compatible with different platforms, easy to learn and operate, and also allows you to reduce risks in combat use. The use of electronic SLA and electric guidance should improve the accuracy of aiming and hitting targets. The mortar can use any existing 120-mm shots.

The RUAG Cobra combat module is of interest to potential customers, and in the future there may be new armored vehicles with such weapons built on a particular chassis. However, one should not overestimate the prospects of this development. As practice shows, automated combat modules with mortars are only of limited distribution.



In the context of the Cobra, the Israeli Cardom system developed by Soltam should be recalled. By its architecture and capabilities, Cardo is a complete analogue of the Swiss Cobra system and has the same positive qualities. However, to date, only eight countries have ordered and put such products into service. Other armies prefer to use self-propelled mortars with more simple weapons.

The Swiss project RUAG Cobra cannot yet boast even such success, although it claims to be the same market sector. So far we are talking only about one order, which, moreover, has not yet been documented. Soon, RUAG Defense and the Swiss Army will sign a contract, and this may affect third-country customers. However, the market situation may remain the same, and Kobre will have to maintain the status of a successful, interesting, but small-scale sample.
Author:
Photos used:
RUAG Defense, Zonwar.ru
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  1. tasha
    tasha 3 May 2019 05: 46
    +2
    It looks beautiful and the characteristics are good ..
    Sprinkle with sand, rain and sleet, or throw liquid mud ... How to clean it all?
    The author is right: "" Cobra will have to maintain the status of a successful, interesting, but limited-edition sample. "...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 3 May 2019 10: 16
      +5
      Quote: tasha
      The author is right: "" Cobra will have to maintain the status of a successful, interesting, but limited-edition sample. "...

      They were just late. The Israelis have already captured most of the market. From Kazakhstan to the USA.
      And I'm afraid you don’t really bother here.

      Quote: tasha
      Sprinkle with sand, rain and sleet, or throw liquid mud ... How to clean it all?

      Well, they clean ...
      1. Old Skeptic
        Old Skeptic 3 May 2019 17: 47
        +2
        This screwed crap, just a mockery of the idea of ​​a mortar, as a cheap and simple means of art. support.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 3 May 2019 17: 51
          +4
          Quote: Old Skeptic
          a mockery of the idea of ​​a mortar as a cheap and simple means of art. support.

          "this screwed-up crap" is much simpler and cheaper than self-propelled mortars with a turret.
          1. Old Skeptic
            Old Skeptic 3 May 2019 18: 41
            -1
            A self-propelled mortar based on an ATV? Without automation and newfangled devices?
            Or just on a tripod?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 3 May 2019 18: 48
              +5
              Quote: Old Skeptic
              A self-propelled mortar based on an ATV?

              Does not exist

              Quote: Old Skeptic
              Without automation and newfangled devices?

              They increase orders of magnitude both combat effectiveness and security for their own troops.
              1. Old Skeptic
                Old Skeptic 3 May 2019 19: 01
                +1
                Come on!
                The usual trinoga saw something like this somewhere.
                How much is a newfangled device?
                How much can even a "civilized state" afford?
                Even if he alone replaces ten simple ones, this means that when he is destroyed, the firepower of the unit falls at times, and not to share.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 3 May 2019 19: 12
                  +6
                  Quote: Old Skeptic
                  Even if he alone replaces ten simple ones, it means

                  ... that the state does not consider its military supplies.
                  Do not forget that mortars with old towed / transportable mortars in modern combat are actually disposable.
                  1. Old Skeptic
                    Old Skeptic 3 May 2019 20: 27
                    0
                    That is, the crowd in the APC that next to this device is not meat? Somewhere in the "military acceptance" was about transported on ATVs. The most important thing is to quickly get out of position. Mechanization of the supply of shells does not solve this problem. The destruction of this crap turns into meat the units that he should support.
                    There are not many support tools.
                    1. Old Skeptic
                      Old Skeptic 3 May 2019 20: 41
                      -1
                      How fast is this wunderwafer compared to a mortar battery?
                      How many such prodigy will be loyally to the battalion, regiment, division?
                      What is the use of these miracles of technology if they are not enough?
                      In addition, who prevents the personnel from going to cover after completing a combat mission?
                      The mortar is such a simple thing that it is difficult to damage it.
                      Competent tactics of application, and not running around one machine from position to position.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 May 2019 21: 03
                        +4
                        Quote: Old Skeptic
                        How fast is this wunderwafer compared to a mortar battery?

                        Higher. Thanks to automatic pickup recovery.

                        Quote: Old Skeptic
                        How many such prodigy will be loyally to the battalion, regiment, division?
                        What is the use of these miracles of technology if they are not enough?

                        How many of them depends on the state.
                        For example, let's take the Americans, the Stryker brigade. They have 10 units of 120-mm self-propelled mortars in their motorized infantry battalion. Not much different from what is presented in this article. Our battalion mortar is 6 units of ancient 120-mm portable mortars. So you understand the depth of the problem more clearly?
                      2. Old Skeptic
                        Old Skeptic 3 May 2019 22: 51
                        -1
                        This is theoretically. In practice, how many brigades are so equipped?
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 May 2019 23: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Old Skeptic
                        This is theoretically. In practice, how many brigades are so equipped?

                        Все.
                    2. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 3 May 2019 21: 11
                      +2
                      Quote: Old Skeptic
                      The most important thing is to quickly get out of position

                      Here I am about ... But where are you going to dump? They shot, "knocked down" and the next shot only after 6 minutes was excellent, plus the time for the road to the new OP
                      So you have to sit on your ass straight, and try to fire despite the shelling of the enemy.

                      And these new systems allow you to make the next shot in 15 seconds - 1 minute. Depends on how far they have moved and whether the mortar needs to be further oriented.
                      1. Old Skeptic
                        Old Skeptic 3 May 2019 22: 54
                        -1
                        They also shot back for cover. We sat off the otvetku and again for work. Mortars on the position (they are iron).
                        Amendments? Looking at what distance you work. And the rate of fire depends on the physical data of the calculation.
                        And the more complex the mechanism, the more often it breaks and the more difficult it is to repair. The question is what kind of war, who is preparing - who is for the parquet, and who is for the real.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 May 2019 23: 01
                        +2
                        Quote: Old Skeptic
                        They also shot back for cover.

                        And who will shoot, support the infantry with fire? No "sit out"

                        Quote: Old Skeptic
                        And the rate of fire depends on the physical data of the calculation.

                        Exactly!
                        Automation induces a mortar before firing and restores the aim after each shot much faster than a human gunner.
                      3. Old Skeptic
                        Old Skeptic 3 May 2019 23: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: Spade
                        And who will shoot, support the infantry with fire? No "sit out"


                        And as long as this machine jumps from position to position, it fires on the move.
                        Are you sure that after each shot you need to correct the tip on the mortar?

                        While the calculation is fresh, he fires faster than this machine
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 May 2019 23: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: Old Skeptic
                        Are you sure that after each shot you need to correct the tip on the mortar?

                        Absolutely. And often, it’s hard to restore. Depends on the soil.
  2. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 3 May 2019 06: 52
    +2
    Well, sho !? Bon-boom launcher yak bon-boom launcher! I was like that (120 mm ... smooth-bore ... muzzle-loader ... with automatic loader ...) 3-4 years ago I formulated and did not call it "futuristic"! request
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 May 2019 07: 28
      -1
      Ay-yayay how it foam polls did not guess to use! Do not guess !!! So shish you in terms of "futuristic" !!!!!! fellow
      Sincerely, Vlad - I jerk!
    2. san4es
      san4es 3 May 2019 09: 59
      +1
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      ... 120 mm ... smoothbore ... muzzle-loading ... with automatic loader ...:


      hi _Yu.Korean (stationary) analogue recourse
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 3 May 2019 10: 06
      +3
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      120 mm ... smoothbore ... muzzle-loading ... with automatic loader ...

      There is no automatic loader. Strictly speaking, it is impossible for mortars. At least with the existing charge change method. With add. bunches.
      Here, by analogy with modern axle boxes. guns in the presence of a sending mechanism.
      1. Simple
        Simple 3 May 2019 11: 21
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Strictly speaking, it is impossible for mortars.


        It is possible, only it will turn it at a cost with self-propelled guns
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 3 May 2019 11: 55
          +2
          Quote: Simple
          He is possible

          He is impossible. The hanging system itself add. beams does not allow this.
          1. Simple
            Simple 3 May 2019 12: 48
            +1
            Place the weighed portions of gunpowder in plastic bags, which are locked after "hanging". There are many ways.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 3 May 2019 13: 19
              +2
              Quote: Simple
              Place the weighed portions of gunpowder in plastic bags, which are locked after "hanging".

              Understood nothing. And who will place and lock?
              By the way, plastic in the barrel, and even with a powder charge inside, is a very bad idea.

              Really a lot of ways. Liquid propellants, electrothermochemical methods (with controlled combustion, as far as I remember this third generation), electromagnetic ...
              But for their full commissioning for a very long time.
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 3 May 2019 15: 39
                0
                how is this impossible?, everything is possible just as MVV, not the "bunches" of powder that you have sounded that need to be manually tied, but special "checkers", more precisely O \ U-shaped disks that consist of a multilayer explosive, where inside the more powerful outside is less and all this is covered with a layer of protection against abrasion, moisture and open flame.
                Moreover, nowadays today there are bunches in the form of multi-colored U-shaped discs, which is full of videos on the internet.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 3 May 2019 17: 31
                  +2
                  Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                  everything is possible just as MBVs are used not sounded by you "beams"

                  Any existing additional bundles have to be removed and put on manually.
                  1. ProkletyiPirat
                    ProkletyiPirat 4 May 2019 00: 19
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    Any existing additional bundles have to be removed and put on manually.

                    This does not mean the impossibility of implementing automation!
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 4 May 2019 10: 56
                      +1
                      As he says.
                      1. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 4 May 2019 18: 20
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        As he says.

                        That is, multi-colored checkers from the video below are IMPOSSIBLE to remove / wear automatics? did I understand you correctly?
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 4 May 2019 19: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        That is, multi-colored checkers from the video below are IMPOSSIBLE to remove / wear automatics? did I understand you correctly?

                        Ага.
                      3. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 4 May 2019 20: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        That is, multi-colored checkers from the video below are IMPOSSIBLE to remove / wear automatics? did I understand you correctly?

                        Ага.

                        Okay, then one question, why? what is in the way?
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 4 May 2019 20: 53
                        0
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        Okay, then one question, why? what is in the way?

                        Estimate yourself. After all, there is no guarantee that two or more will not be removed instead of one bundle. and this is a huge jamb, this is a high probability of fire in their own way.
                      5. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 5 May 2019 04: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        Okay, then one question, why? what is in the way?

                        Estimate yourself. After all, there is no guarantee that two or more will not be removed instead of one bundle. and this is a huge jamb, this is a high probability of fire in their own way.

                        Are there any more intelligible reasons? it just sounds funny "it is impossible to control the thickness of the grip" (thickness along the axis of the projectile).
                      6. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 5 May 2019 10: 06
                        0
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        impossible to control grip thickness

                        What the hell is the "grip thickness"?
                      7. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 5 May 2019 16: 15
                        0
                        thickness, distance along the axis of the projectile, determining how many MVV drafts will be captured. You claim that this thickness impossible control and therefore it is impossible to find out \ install \ select the number of removable \ installed checkers ...
                      8. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 5 May 2019 17: 37
                        0
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        thickness, distance along the axis of the projectile

                        And where do you get it, given that the additional bunches move freely along the shank?

                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        You claim that this thickness is impossible

                        I affirm that there is no guarantee that no more beams will be removed than necessary. Due to friction between them, due to improper positioning of the manipulator relative to the beam, due to the fact that when removing one beam, the manipulator can destroy the adjacent one.
                      9. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 5 May 2019 18: 15
                        0
                        1) when removing / putting on checkers (and not bunches!), They can be pressed with shoulder blades from above and from below, therefore it does not matter whether they move or not (the whole block of checkers means)
                        2) bevels \ chamfers \ cuts are made at the checkers, which makes positioning of the manipulator easier
                        3) the checkers are covered with a protective layer resistant to moisture and abrasion because they will not stick together and will not rub
                        4) the checkers are covered with a protective reinforcing layer and / or reinforced from the inside, if the strength is not enough, then the thickness of the checker increases with the same power MVV
                        5) so that neighboring checkers are not removed when removing the inner one can make emphasis for them

                        In any case, even if you take as an axiom your statement about removing the wrong number of pieces, you can not remove them, but wear them. Because your statement about the impossibility of organizing automation sounds like complete nonsense.
                      10. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 5 May 2019 18: 24
                        0
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        when removing / putting on checkers (and not bunches!)

                        This "checker" is called "additional beam" or "additional charge"

                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        You can not take them off, but put them on.

                        Then the probability of failure will be even higher.
                      11. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 5 May 2019 19: 55
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        This "checker" is called "additional beam" or "additional charge"

                        yes, this is an "additional charge" of MVV (propellant explosive),

                        this is a bundle, it can be longitudinal or transverse, but it always consists of matter with garters




                        but this is a block, cartridge, checker (there are a lot of names), its difference from the beam in convenience is acceleration of dressing / removal and in protection against moisture absorption, therefore they use a different name



                        Quote: Spade
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        You can not take them off, but put them on.

                        Then the probability of failure will be even higher.

                        Justify!
              2. Simple
                Simple 3 May 2019 23: 10
                0
                Quote: Spade
                Understood nothing. And who will place and lock?


                Like who? belay Manipulator of course.

                If we give the hinges more or less rigid form, I think the manipulator will cope with this matter.

                Quote: Spade
                By the way, plastic in the barrel, and even with a powder charge inside, is a very bad idea.

                Well, we will not use plastic.
                You can take some other material that does not leave soot more than before.

                PS
                A colleague commented above.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 3 May 2019 11: 49
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        There is no automatic loader here.

        Actually, in the previous comment about the "automatic loader" I said "mechanically, out of habit"! Although .... who knows! We know of tank AZ (automatic loaders) on the T-72, T-90; but on the T-64, T-80 MZ (loading mechanism) are installed! wink I strongly disagree with the statement that an automatic loader is impossible for a mortar! What "confuses" you? The inability to use a certain number of "equally charged" mines? This is not so. As an argument, I can mention the Dragon Fire system, where about a hundred “equally charged” mines can be stored in a “container”. You can see on the Internet how Givi commands the calculation of the "single" gun "Nona-K" (Donbass) ... next to the gun is a stack of "equally" prepared for loading mines ... In the previous comment, I really meant the design , which is better called a loader mechanism, but an automatic loader can be made on its basis ... (I just "clearly" see "the diagram!)
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 3 May 2019 12: 14
          +4
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          This is not so. As an argument I can mention the Dragon Fire system

          You can also recall AMOS and the Polish "Cancer" ... With an alleged "automatic loader". In fact, this is actually a deception. Since the price of this "machine" is the rejection of the variable charge. Which in the case of the mortar is simply unacceptable.

          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          next to the gun is a stack of mines "equally" prepared for loading.

          Why not, if the goals are planned? Once one veteran told us that before the start of "Bagration" they had one and a half carriages of mines for each mortar on the ground and laid out on fire raids. With pre-installed charges and fuses for each raid. And beautiful signs 8))))

          But here is what problems appeared: now a mortar, battalion artillery with all that it implies. And they have practically no planned targets, for this there is the artillery of the senior chief. In Russia, an attached or supporting artillery division. And the battalion "cleans up" unplanned targets. And very often at minimum ranges, which does not allow working with one charge in principle.

          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          In the previous comment, I really had in mind a design that is better called a loading mechanism, but an automatic loader can be made on its basis ... (I just "clearly", see "a diagram!)

          Are you aware that only a muzzle-loading mortar and manual loading allows you to achieve the maximum rate of fire?
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 3 May 2019 15: 16
            +2
            Quote: Spade
            the cost of this "machine" is the rejection of the variable charge. Which in the case of the mortar is simply unacceptable.

            Quote: Spade
            next to the gun is a stack of mines "equally" prepared for loading.

            Why not if the goals are planned?

            Hmmm ... have you even noticed that your "points" contradict each other ?!
            Quote: Spade
            Only a muzzle-loading mortar and manual loading allows you to achieve the maximum rate of fire?

            And here is exactly the situation when it is "competent" to say: everything is "comparatively relative"! Much depends on the caliber ... 82 mm mortars are faster than 120 mm .... We are "in conversation" about 120 mm mortars! If we compare the combat rate of fire of 120-mm mortars with manual loading and with the loading mechanism, then it is about the same! But....! The combat rate of fire for manual loading depends on the level of preparedness of the crew and its physical strength! Moreover, the "authorized" combat rate of fire can be maintained for a certain (!) Time, determined by the above conditions! A 120-mm mine weighs an average of 16 kg ... a pound weight! The newest "cylindrical-conical" mines can weigh even more! But the conditions caused by manual loading do not "bother" the loading mechanisms! That is, the rate of fire with manual loading is variable ... with the loading mechanism, it is constant!
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 3 May 2019 15: 53
              0
              By the way, it is not clear why, since they began to make the loading mechanism, not to switch to the breech-loading scheme, why should they be so perverted with a muzzle-loading one?
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 3 May 2019 16: 40
                +1
                Quote: bk0010
                go to the breech-loading circuit, why so pervert with muzzle-loading

                Well, this is more and more often done now: self-propelled mortar guns are often armed with breech-loading mortars ... In the case of muzzle-loading mortars, one can assume that such a mortar is “easy” to remove from a “self-propelled gun” and use as a “normal” one. A towed ("portable") muzzle-loading mortar will be faster (or even easier ...) than a breech-loading mortar ...
                1. strannik1985
                  strannik1985 3 May 2019 16: 43
                  0
                  No, just a muzzle-loading will be easier and faster than a breech-loading.
                2. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 3 May 2019 17: 56
                  +3
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  mortar "self-propelled guns" are often armed with breech-loading mortars

                  Infrequently. Most self-propelled mortars are muzzle-loading.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 3 May 2019 17: 48
              +3
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Hmmm ... have you even noticed that your "points" contradict each other ?!

              Absolutely not contradict.
              Among the people there are blacks. Not all people are black. These two phrases also do not contradict.

              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              If we compare the combat rate of 120 mm mortars with manual loading and with the loading mechanism, then it is approximately the same

              No. Because the time spent by the loader is supplemented with the working time of the mine sending mechanism

              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Combat rate of fire during manual loading depends on the degree of preparedness of the calculation

              Well yes. However, it also takes effort to put a mine on the tray.

              All the differences - the loader’s head will be higher, which will make the board higher for his greater safety. Well, a higher rate of fire because, as I already wrote, it does not take time to work the sending mechanism.
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 4 May 2019 03: 02
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                Most self-propelled mortars are muzzle charged.

                Modern mortar "self-propelled guns" are more and more often performed by breech-loading. "breech-loading" nones "... (well, you can" remember "another 120-mm breech-loading one, which was" proposed "...) If you pay attention to the" other countries ", then the ratio of breech-loading / muzzle-loading self-propelled mortars is approximately" fifty -fifty "...
                Quote: Spade
                to the time spent charging increases the time of the mechanism for mine unloading

                belay ??? What is it in? Take the performance of mortars! What about "devices" with manual loading, what about mechanisms, the practical rate of fire is approximately the same - up to 14-16 rds / min
                Quote: Spade
                However, it also takes energy to put a mine on the tray.

                Can you "feel the difference": put it on a tray and raise a pound mine "to a height"? But if there is a loading mechanism, you can make a full-fledged automatic loader ... then the hands of the mortar gunner may not touch the mines, acre "the moment of" charging the "container" ...
          2. Kerensky
            Kerensky 6 May 2019 07: 13
            0
            only a muzzle-loading mortar and manual loading allows you to achieve the maximum rate of fire

            But what about the Nebelwerfer?
  3. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 3 May 2019 07: 34
    0
    It's just that now they are starting to use the already guided mines ... from ordinary mortars. Do you need such a complex system. On the other hand, the Swedes / Finns with their double-barreled guns and the Russian "Vienna / Lotus".
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 3 May 2019 08: 49
    +3
    But once a mortar was considered one of the most simple and inexpensive artillery systems ... Where this world is heading ...
  5. Cowbra
    Cowbra 3 May 2019 09: 05
    0
    Of interest is such a cut ... In the cold they shot her? Ali hovali her into the forest?
    Automation, especially open one, is not only a plus, but also a minus ... Sand drives through the deserts, frosts are not uncommon in the north and high in the mountains ...
  6. san4es
    san4es 3 May 2019 09: 51
    +2
    RUAG Cobra (Switzerland): futuristic-looking mortar
    1. frolov andrey
      frolov andrey 3 May 2019 10: 10
      -1
      Nah watched it. There, in fact, 10 seconds of information is needed. Only cursed when the snake jumped. Eee though knew that the scum will rush.
  7. Simple
    Simple 3 May 2019 11: 13
    -1
    Prior to the first heating of the barrel, a recoil device will work.
  8. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 3 May 2019 17: 55
    0
    The weight of the combat module in the complete set is 1350 kg. The rejection of the loading mechanism is facilitated by the 150 kg module.

    Not sickly so - almost a half tons. And the good old 2B11 of the 1979 model of the year weighs 210 kg.
  9. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 3 May 2019 19: 19
    +1
    "Israeli system Cardom developed by Soltam. In terms of its architecture and capabilities," Cardom "is a complete analogue of the Swiss system Cobra and has the same positive qualities." ////
    -----
    Interesting! Since 2003, our system is serial and is in service with Israel,
    USA, Australia, NATO countries.
    And the Swiss one is still "awaiting approval." So who has an analogue? laughing
  10. demiurg
    demiurg 3 May 2019 19: 21
    0
    Swiss fellows. They made the artillery system on the order of their military, and a little bit of profits were sold for export.
    They do not demolish their pillboxes by the way. Just in case.
  11. Disorder
    Disorder 3 May 2019 19: 52
    -1
    Some kind of perversion. They would have come up with a manipulator that repeats the movements of a living loader. wink Charging from the treasury is much easier, and the rate of fire is higher. I’m silent about reliability.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 3 May 2019 23: 21
      +2
      Quote: Trouble
      Charging from the treasury is much easier

      Much harder
      Obturation .... And you have to arrange dances with tambourines with special plastic seals like on "non-shaped" ones, or rivet special ammunition, like on Finnish breech-loading and their clones

      Quote: Trouble
      I’m silent about reliability.

      Muzzle-charging is simpler and therefore more reliable. And safer.
      1. Disorder
        Disorder 4 May 2019 11: 22
        +1
        And this mechanism, crawling along the entire length of the trunk, is just awesome, which is simple and reliable.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 4 May 2019 11: 50
          0
          Quote: Trouble
          And this mechanism, crawling along the entire length of the trunk, is just awesome, which is simple and reliable.

          This "crawling mechanism" is optional. Moreover, the vast majority of mortars of this kind do without it. Well, or pure mechanics, like the Swedes on their "double-barreled"
          1. Disorder
            Disorder 4 May 2019 21: 21
            0
            lol Oh well. Does Mina herself jump to the muzzle?
            In Mjolnir, the feed mechanism transports the mine along the entire barrel to the charging cup. Then the charging glass is extended beyond the muzzle and, turning on the axis, lowers the mine into the barrel. The same eggs - side view.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 5 May 2019 10: 04
              0
              Quote: Trouble
              Oh well. Does Mina herself jump to the muzzle?

  12. Lapunevsky
    Lapunevsky 4 May 2019 00: 23
    0
    For filming in the fantastic action movies Hollywood will go.
  13. sen
    sen 4 May 2019 06: 34
    +1
    I think that in the mobile version the 160 mm mortar is still better. In Syria and the Second World War, he showed himself well.
    It is possible and muzzle-loading, like Israeli.
  14. Romka47
    Romka47 8 May 2019 14: 16
    0
    The view, though futuristic, is not serious, so I understand the "cornflower", this is the device good
  15. xASPIDx
    xASPIDx 5 August 2019 00: 12
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Old Skeptic
    A self-propelled mortar based on an ATV?

    Does not exist

    Quote: Old Skeptic
    Without automation and newfangled devices?

    They increase orders of magnitude both combat effectiveness and security for their own troops.

    You still don’t believe it, but they do it, they make a home-made trailer ala cart and harness a quadric or a couple of donkeys, some craftsmen manage to make almost self-made howitzers as a rule, but this is another conversation