Fiery expense. Should there be economical artillery?

89
A huge amount of artillery (with its rather serious rate of fire) during the First World War 1914 — 1918. gave reason to expect a large consumption of artillery ammunition. But their real expense in that war exceeded all expectations. The expense was enormous - especially for light guns (heavy guns consumed less - due to the difficulty of ammunition and lower rate of fire).

French consumption


Ammunition consumption figures are impressive.



Thus, in the course of 6-day preparation of the 1916 breakout, only 75-mm guns (444 units) fired over a million grenades - that is, more than 2250 shots per gun (this gives 375 grenades to the gun per day).

Previously, during the Verdun operation in the first half of the same year, the French were not able to spend such amount of ammunition for 75-mm guns - due to the duration of this operation (the supply did not keep up: only occasionally 75-mm batteries could get 250 shells per gun per day). At the same time, the Germans brought a huge amount of ammunition for this operation - and spent them wastefully.


French 75-mm gun. Pataj S. Artyleria ladowa 1881-1970. W., 1975.


When preparing the artillery part of their 1915, 1916 and 1917 breakthroughs. (lasted for 3, 6 and 11 days, respectively), the French often spent 500000 shots per day on a limited front area (25, 16 and 35 km.).

In the second half of 1918, during their 100-day offensive across the front, they spent daily ammunition volume exceeding the daily rate, which was manufactured by French factories: 4000 - 5000 tons per day.

Consumption in past wars


It is interesting to compare these figures with the consumption of ammunition in the battles of previous wars.

Thus, the Napoleonic artillery fired the following number of shots in the 1813 battle in Leipzig (the figures are only for some of the last days): October 16 - October 84000 and October 18 - 95000. Dividing these numbers by the number of available guns (700), we get that on average each gun had: on the first day on 120 and on the other - on 136 shots.

During the Franco-Prussian War in the Battle of Gravelotte 18 August 1870, the French had an 42 shot per gun at each gun, and the Germans had a 47 shot; in the battle of Mars-Latour 16 August 1870 - from the French on 47, the Germans - on the 72 shot.

During the Russo-Japanese War: in the Liaoyang battle (somewhat in a wider period - 15 - 25 in August 1904), the expenditure of 240 shots at the gun (i.e. average 22 shot every day), in the battle for Shah (period the longest, from 25 September to 15, October 1904, was spent on 230 gunfire, and in the Mukden battle (taken from February 8 to 10 March 1905) shells were spent on 480 shells on the barrel. Finally, in the 5 day battle of Sandepu (January 1905), the 2 Army, having 430 guns, used 75000 shells, which gives an average of one gun per day for 35 shots.

These numbers are striking in their insignificance.

On the one hand, the low consumption of shells per gun per day was due to the fact that many guns remained in reserve and, in effect, were inactive. In addition, not all the days of these multi-day battles were supported by equally intense fighting. The official description of the war says that in the Tashichao battle (11 July 1904), “some batteries used up most of the entire supply of ammunition”. “As one of the main reasons that prompted us to withdraw our army from Liaoyang,” Kuropatkin called the lack of gunfire. During this battle, there was a moment when there was not a single gunshot in the army’s warehouses.

The official description of the war recognizes the expense of gunfire very large.

Saving or waste?


In the war 1914 - 1918. the parties seemed to have completely abandoned the principle of economy in the use of ammunition. At the same time, the statutes with which the opponents began the war were considered with this principle. Obviously, by virtue of this principle, it was required that artillery firing be conducted only at such distances at which it is considered valid; shooting on squares, on long lines and on invisible objects was also forbidden - due to great wastefulness in waging such a fire.

But in the First World War, and from the very beginning, instead of the principle of economy, the principle of wastefulness in the use of ammunition began to be applied. Germany gave an example of this: due to the excellently organized mass production of ammunition and thanks to a well-organized supply of them to the front, it could be wasteful in spending - believing that the enemy would not hijack her.

The French followed in the footsteps of the Germans - and from the very beginning of the war (in September 1914 in the battle of the Marne) they began to shoot from their 75-mm guns for long distances, and contrary to the rules, and such shooting was legalized in December 1916. (Germans did it even earlier).

Already in the first months of the war, the French began to shoot squares, more or less long lines, at invisible objects. The troops demanded that artillery fired even at night.

At the same time, barrage-shooting, which requires a large expenditure of ammunition, begins, and soon, following the example of the Germans, so wasteful shooting as pilonazh. The latter was widely used by the Germans already in the Verdun operation (the first half of 1916), and since then it has become their general rule during offensive operations.


French battery during the attack in Champagne


Already at the beginning of the war, French troops demanded from artillery a long and continuously repeated barrage. They also demanded a long "preparation of land acquisition" by artillery fire, causing a huge expenditure of ammunition - such training, which, as people began to think, would result in an act of land acquisition. They began to say (and from the first weeks of the war): “in this war, the artillery takes possession, and then the infantry occupies”. Often, after such training, they did not even care about the occupation of the corresponding area by infantry. Often (and on the same day) such preparation was repeated.

Is such wastefulness advisable? Was it worth the benefit?

The artillery prestige of the Frenchman Gascuen hardly protests against her. Such wastefulness is legitimate - unless it is useless.

But in the second half of 1918, the extravagance of artillery fire led to a terrible decrease in its productivity - at least in terms of the number of people being put out of action. So, in August 1914, every French artillery shot, on average, incapacitated one German; in the first months of the war, on average, one ton of ammunition incapacitated German 4 - 5 (which was already far from the situation in the very first month of the war); and in the second half of 1918, the French spent every ton of Germans killed from 4 - 5 tons of ammunition.

Having cited these data, Gascuen ascribes them, however, not to the wastefulness of the shooting, but to a number of other reasons, the main of which are the following:

1. A significant decrease in the artillery ammunition to 1918, the proportion of shrapnel: in 1914, they were at least 50%, and in 1918, only 10%.

2. The decrease in the strength of the explosive composition (in qualitative terms) of the explosive charge in projectiles and the deterioration to 1918 of the qualities of the projectile itself.

3. The lack of "long-range" tubes for shells in 1918

4. A significant decrease in the actual composition of the German military units, especially their less dense location in front of the French artillery in the 1918 campaign.

5. Reducing the art of shooting by officers of the French artillery to 1918.

It is interesting that in the final period of the war the French shot more artillery ammunition than the Germans.

However, the Germans also spent their ammunition unproductively at the end of the war. Here are some numbers (we will take into account that 75% of combat losses during the First World War was caused by artillery).

During the offensive of the French troops:

in April – May – June 1915 was killed, went missing and died from the wounds of 143 thousand French, and evacuated from the battle fields of 306 thousand French;

when 22 was broken through September - 7 of October 1915 was killed, went missing and died from the wounds of 120 thousand French, and evacuated from the battle fields of 260 thousand French;

during the victorious offensive of July 18 - November 11 1918 was killed, went missing and died from the wounds of 110 thousand French.

Moreover, if in the first case these are local offensives on different sectors of the front during 3 months, in the second case the results of the offensive for 15 are 16 days on the 25-km front, and the figures of the third heading show us the result of the offensive for 113 days — and French front.

Without protesting against the large waste of ammunition in the battles as a whole, Gasquan considers, at the same time, some of the artillery shooting methods practiced by the French in that war are unproductive. He points to the inexpediency of the doctrine of complete or almost complete destruction of wire obstacles, fortification devices, batteries; he finds that the dogma of destroying everything with heavy artillery led to too long preparation for assaults in producing breakthroughs (3 - 11 days) and to an incredible expenditure of ammunition, which often exceeded 500000 shots per day (and on a limited front area); He condemns the addiction to pilonazh, to shooting at the squares and to the abuse of shooting at long distances - which at the end of the war turned into shooting "from far away", that is, "white light like a penny."

Describing the artillery shooting of the Germans in the final period of the war, he noted signs of some demoralization: “with special urgency the German artillery sometimes squandered its ammunition,” he says.

As a result, Gascuen does not advocate at all for ammunition savings. On the contrary, he puts forward the opposite principle - the power consumption (puissance de debit) of ammunition, which lasts for hours during both defensive and offensive operations. This was what he wished for the French in a future war.

The ending should ...
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  1. DPN
    0
    25 May 2019 18: 09
    YES if you don’t have it in general, everything else depends on the commander’s head.
    1. +10
      25 May 2019 19: 10
      What "yes? This is not a question for foreign "experts", but a story about the approach to the problem on the part of the Germans and the French
      1. -3
        25 May 2019 19: 24
        There is no "approach"
        Although there were no particular problems in calculating the required amount of ammunition, the mathematical apparatus available then allowed it.
        1. +10
          25 May 2019 20: 16
          You know better)) this is about the approach
          Well doesn’t fit - so practice good
          1. +10
            25 May 2019 20: 16
            Not an approach - this is how practice wrote
          2. -1
            25 May 2019 20: 23
            These are dangerous things, to beat with a huge expense "into the white light" ... Ammunition consumption, the highest probability of "response", shooting of barrels (even our "personnel" at the beginning of the war allowed damage to guns due to non-observance of the fire regime)
      2. DPN
        0
        25 May 2019 20: 46
        Sign? Seen, connoisseur love
  2. Alf
    +10
    25 May 2019 18: 22
    Saving shells - blood overspending.
    1. +12
      25 May 2019 19: 11
      Not always
      Sometimes tactics and accuracy compensate for the amount of ammunition that was simply killed over squares.
      1. Alf
        +2
        25 May 2019 19: 38
        Quote: Hunghouse
        Not always
        Sometimes tactics and accuracy compensate for the amount of ammunition that was simply killed over squares.

        Yes, but it is understood that it’s better to drop twice as many shells at the enemy than drive infantry tanks onto unsuppressed defenses.
        1. +1
          25 May 2019 19: 58
          Quote: Alf
          than to drive infantry tanks to unsuppressed defenses.

          Here, just the same, a big ambush appeared. The active use of artillery in the breakout area created huge problems with the use of tanks.
          Actually, this was one of the main reasons for the failure of the first use of tanks in the First World War.
          1. Alf
            +1
            25 May 2019 21: 09
            Quote: Spade
            Quote: Alf
            than to drive infantry tanks to unsuppressed defenses.

            Here, just the same, a big ambush appeared. The active use of artillery in the breakout area created huge problems with the use of tanks.
            Actually, this was one of the main reasons for the failure of the first use of tanks in the First World War.

            It is truth too.
            1. +2
              25 May 2019 22: 35
              Alf ... The main problem of artillery is the adjustment of fire and the work on defining targets and their suppression, And then, obviously, in WWI they were "thrashed" by the majority in areas, like "into the white light", without a clear understanding of the targets .. But aviation has already been used quite widely , Even in the Second World War. the last operation of the storming of Berlin on the Seelow Heights under the command of G. Zhukov, as a clear example of the importance of defining targets and adjusting artillery fire. The Germans then maneuvered their troops out of the fortifications and thus nullified the entire blow of prolonged artillery preparation, which was exceptional in terms of the number of guns and spent ammunition, - the most powerful and prolonged shelling went to waste, because the Germans withdrew troops from the first lines of defense, and at the beginning of the offensive, they quickly returned to their positions ... This blunder of G. Zhukov was worth heavy losses ... although an unbeatable amount of artillery was involved, both in barrels per km and in ammunition .... An example that thrashing in the "white light" does not bring any results, that we also see from these examples PMA.
              1. +4
                26 May 2019 00: 39
                No, adjustment in the WWII fire was one of the main combat missions; balloons and airships were widely used. Operations to protect these spotters from enemy airplanes and to destroy enemy spotters were the cause of major air battles.
                So everything is much more interesting.
              2. -1
                26 May 2019 16: 46
                Well, with the Zeelov heights - not Newton’s bin.
                While in the artillery reconnaissance panuval, Captain Solzhenitsyn - the Red Army was irresistibly moving forward, sweeping away everything from the path with artillery.
                And to the Zeelovsky heights of that one ... bloody geben.
                And everything went to dust.
                All people with bright faces know this.
      2. 0
        26 May 2019 04: 19
        Yes, even in terms of volume. If you didn’t even destroy the enemy, but pressed, scared, and at the same time did not let your soldiers die.
        1. 0
          26 May 2019 09: 58
          Yours .. During prolonged hostilities, there is no one to scare, everyone is "frightened" (fired upon, - in a front-line way), therefore, only effectiveness matters. Today, efficiency is achieved by precise reconnaissance (UAVs, aircraft, satellites) and targeted destruction of targets with high-precision weapons .. Such ammunition is more expensive, but generally more justified. for example, our bombing in Syria,. although with improved sights, they still give large dispersions and destruction of targets is often not guaranteed. as seen in the photographs on impacts and hits. With precision ammunition. The United States is especially advanced, in this we must definitely pull ourselves up, this is the future ...
  3. +11
    25 May 2019 19: 03
    Very interesting figures, facts
    French and German experience in WWI
  4. Eug
    -5
    25 May 2019 19: 03
    As far as I know, the typical task (the destruction of the bunker, dugout) was solved by the Germans in the Great Patriotic War with 4 shots of 105-mm guns, our artillery solved this problem with 16 shells of 122 mm. If so, then it cost our economy and the state very expensive. But - it is better to spend more iron than to lose more people ...
    1. +4
      25 May 2019 19: 21
      Quote: Eug
      As far as I know, the typical task (the destruction of the bunker, dugout) was solved by the Germans in the Great Patriotic War with 4 shots of 105-mm guns, our artillery solved this problem with 16 shells of 122 mm.

      Someone misled you.
    2. +2
      25 May 2019 20: 06
      With 4 shots you get only a shot ...
    3. 0
      26 May 2019 16: 41
      I met some info somewhere - according to our instructions, during the artillery preparation to destroy one bunker, 120 (one hundred and twenty) HE shells of 122 mm caliber were allocated.
      As for the 4 shots of a 105 mm howitzer - yes.
      If you drag it to a distance of 200 meters and with complete non-resistance of the parties.
  5. -3
    25 May 2019 19: 05
    ... the French often spent 500000 rounds a day on a limited section of the front.
    ... in the second half of 1918, the wastefulness of artillery fire led to a terrible decrease in its productivity

    September 27, 1918, the 128th US field artillery fired from 75-mm French guns, Le Cote de Forimont .... hi
    1. +5
      25 May 2019 20: 19
      That's right, for 500000 in a limited section of the front
      Yes, 18 years - a decrease in productivity. Facts are a stubborn thing.
      The French themselves, art specialists PMV write about this. And they are right good
      Erefnye talkers do not count
      1. -4
        25 May 2019 20: 50
        Quote: Hunghouse
        The French themselves, art specialists PMV

        They had such an uncle in France, General of the Artillery Jean-Baptiste Eugene Etienne. The same "art specialist".

        He was well aware of the counterproductiveness of shooting "in that direction." And therefore, he became one of the founders of both the French aviation and the French tank forces. And it's not even about tanks, but about assault self-propelled guns, the first in the world.

        Aviation was supposed to give artillery targets. Assault self-propelled guns - the ability to shoot direct fire. This was supposed to greatly reduce unproductive ammunition consumption.
        1. +10
          25 May 2019 20: 54
          And there was an even bigger special - namely PMV.
          Gaskuen was called. He is here recognized authority
          In principle, your uncle about the post-war performance (your self-propelled guns, aircraft) is a completely different story.
          1. -3
            25 May 2019 21: 04
            Quote: Hunghouse
            your uncle about post-war performance

            No, dear, the assault self-propelled guns and aircraft appeared in the French precisely in the First World War. 8))))))
            He is exactly the most that neither is a practitioner and "recognized authority" ... "Father of French tank building." much more recognized. 8))))))))))))))))))))
            1. +9
              25 May 2019 21: 12
              Yes, I know without you that then it appeared + imagine))))
              But why do we need self-propelled guns and attack aircraft.
              It’s just that your Etienne was not standing next to Gaskuen. With the gunner Gaskuen.
              Please provide a link to Etienne's work and a page that says about the ammunition volumes of the French field artillery in relation to the PMV. Attention! It is Artillery
              1. -2
                25 May 2019 21: 24
                Quote: Hunghouse
                Self-propelled guns and attack aircraft.

                8)))))))))))))))
                Quote: Hunghouse
                It’s just that your Etienne was not standing next to Gaskuen. With the gunner Gaskuen.

                eight)))))))))
                Just aviation in World War I was originally used for artillery reconnaissance 8)))))))))))))
                Therefore, it was promoted by the ARTILLERIST Etienne, who began World War I as the chief of staff of the artillery regiment

                Quote: Hunghouse
                reference to Etienne's work

                He was a practitioner, not a theoretician, I emphasize again. He promoted telephone communication to the level of art. batteries, he was one of the initiators of the use of closed-fire firing in the French army, he was one of the main initiators of the creation of French aviation, he received the honorary title of "Father of French tanks" ...
                But the book did not bother to write. Which, apparently, greatly reduces its significance in the eyes of some 8))))))))
                1. +8
                  25 May 2019 21: 38
                  And Gaskuen is a theoretical practitioner.
                  Only unlike your Etienne, a real gunner)))
                  And unlike your Etienne, who didn’t touch on the consumption of ammunition, Gaskuen analyzed this issue.
                  Your verbosity without pages and numbers symbolizes this significant fact)))) hi
                  1. -2
                    25 May 2019 21: 51
                    Quote: Hunghouse
                    Only unlike your Etienne, a real gunner)))

                    "A real artilleryman" on what grounds? I am at a loss as to how the chief of staff of the artillery regiment may not be enough artilleryman 8))))))))

                    Quote: Hunghouse
                    And unlike your Etienne, who didn’t touch the ammunition consumption,

                    eight))))))))
                    More like "touched".
                    At first, thanks to him and his comrades, he increased sharply. Once again, it was Etienne who was one of the initiators of the development of closed fire in the French army. The same shooting, which ate shells in such quantities

                    And then, realizing, he did his best to reduce this expense.
                    Initially, involving aviation in artillery reconnaissance, that is, determining the coordinates of targets and servicing firing, adjusting and controlling damage.
                    Then promoting tank assault tanks. As you know, direct fire very much reduces the consumption of ammunition.
                    1. +8
                      25 May 2019 21: 56
                      And Gaskuen is a general.
                      Well, since your Etienne also related to the consumption of ammunition, then I do not lose hope of hearing from you at least some numbers, as already requested))) is this possible?)))
                      1. -2
                        25 May 2019 22: 08
                        Quote: Hunghouse
                        at least some numbers

                        8))))) How could General of Artillery Etienne know the "numbers"? He was not a quartermaster.
                      2. +8
                        26 May 2019 07: 34
                        Then why are you fooling your head and doing stupid sophistry? Kindergarten, only know how to smile and write eights))))
                        Firstly, not only the quartermaster knows the numbers. Any solid work of an informed specialist is replete with figures and facts. What, Barsukov, you quoted below, was also the quartermaster, he has all the work in numbers
                        or Kirei?)))
                        Secondly, why are you bothering this Etienne if he is a "practitioner" who did not write anything. "What should we compare, what numbers?
                        Let me also begin to refer to practitioners who have not left work)))) And there will be a conversation between the blind and the deaf.
                        Since you can’t give any numbers, don’t pour water and do not fool your head with your tales
                      3. -1
                        26 May 2019 09: 54
                        Quote: Hunghouse
                        Firstly, not only the quartermaster knows the numbers. Any solid work of an informed specialist is replete with figures and facts.

                        It looks like you didn’t read Gaskuen’s literary work 8)))))))))))))))))))))

                        Quote: Hunghouse
                        Since you cannot give any numbers

                        Numbers of what, damn it? This is already beginning to resemble some wild sur, kargokult. When some "numbers" for some become more important than meaning

                        Quote: Hunghouse
                        and do not fool your head with your tales

                        This is not a fairy tale. These are the facts. Apparently too complicated for you due to limited knowledge. Attack aircraft, damn it ... 8))))))))))))))))))))))
                      4. +4
                        26 May 2019 15: 47
                        Shovels, the fact that you are zero on the topic, I personally somehow already understood.
                        the question is different.
                        The article is about the use of ammunition by the French artillery PMV. Gaskuen - yes, the source.
                        Etienne? Hotosho. If your Etienne, for whom you are crucifying, have something to report on the topic, then bring it.
                        Etienne figures in the studio.
                        And if on the topic of the article there is nothing to tell either you or Etienne - then on the way out my friend is a shovel)))))))))))))))))))))))
                      5. -2
                        26 May 2019 16: 30
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        Shovels, the fact that you are zero on the topic, I personally somehow already understood.
                        the question is different.

                        I, too, did not notice any special knowledge in you 8)))

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        Etienne? Hotosho. If your Etienne, for whom you are crucifying, have something to report on the topic, then bring it.

                        He did not "report on the topic", he "did" ... What, in fact, from the very beginning
                        Oh, how difficult ... 8))))))

                        Okay, I'll try to chew, so that even it dawns on you.

                        I will use modern consumption rates. Scientifically verified, tested by field tests.

                        So, there is an enemy artillery battery, "calculated" by the sound and the flash of shots.
                        Reduced training, destruction, beloved by the French 76-mm caliber. 2430 shells.
                        The French artillery genius Etienne appears. And he suggests "let's use aviation to correct fire"
                        And it begins ... A pilot or a letnab can detect the coordinates of a target. Minus one and a half, that is 1620 shells. From an airplane, you can carry out target adjustment. Minus a quarter 1215 shells From an airplane they can carry out control of shooting to kill. Minus a quarter 810 shells From an airplane they can confirm the fact of the destruction of guns - even less, but no more than 810.
                        Etienne thinks "still a lot" and offers his famous about "76mm cannon mounted on a machine capable of traversing any terrain." That is, direct fire, 6 enemy guns multiplied by 17 shells per target. 102 shells

                        Now it dawns on you what exactly Etienne did for the French artillery?
                        Or is it worth it, to further explain?
                      6. +6
                        26 May 2019 16: 45
                        I, too, did not notice any special knowledge in you 8)))

                        particularly pleased with the word also laughing
                        Okay
                        2 questions:
                        1) What artillery guns according to Etienne (or supposedly according to Etienne) are we talking about (type, caliber)
                        2) The source of your numbers?
                      7. +6
                        26 May 2019 16: 53
                        or is it Lopatov, not Etienne's conclusions (though not personally described by him, but at least obtained by his practice), but purely your personal theorizing?)))))))))
                        Sorry - I do not put the eight)))))))))))))
                      8. -2
                        26 May 2019 17: 44
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        or is it Lopatov, not Etienne's conclusions

                        Oh...
                        For the eleventh time, Etienne did not make "conclusions", Etienne did deal.
                        And you here for a couple pretend that for the eleventh time you "did not understand" this

                        At first, he and a group of associates taught French artillery to shoot from closed fire.
                        Then he and a group of associates advanced the idea of ​​creating military aviation in the interests of reconnaissance for artillery.
                        Then, already during the war, he actively promoted the creation of batteries (I emphasize this word) "Schneiders" and "Saint-Chamonov", which in fact performed the role of self-propelled assault guns. And the artillerymen commanded them.

                        And the last two points directly reduced the overall consumption of ammunition.
                      9. +5
                        26 May 2019 18: 10
                        enough talk. and wandering through the tree
                        name - where are your numbers above. What is the source?
                        from Etienne or is it the fabrication of a sofa theorist, that is, you? laughing
                      10. -3
                        26 May 2019 18: 46
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        where are your numbers above. What is the source?

                        Reading problems
                      11. +6
                        26 May 2019 18: 59
                        these are your numbers
                        2430 shells.
                        The French artillery genius Etienne appears. And he suggests "let's use aviation to correct fire"
                        And it begins ... A pilot or a letnab can detect the coordinates of a target. Less and a half, that is 1620 shells. From an airplane, you can carry out target adjustment. Minus a quarter, 1215 shells From the plane can carry out control of shooting to defeat. Less than a quarter, 810 shells From an airplane can confirm the fact of the destruction of guns, even less, but no more than 810.
                        Etienne thinks "still a lot" and offers his famous about "76mm cannon mounted on a machine capable of traversing any terrain." That is, direct fire, 6 enemy guns multiplied by 17 shells per target. 102 shells

                        WHERE FROM ??
                      12. +6
                        26 May 2019 18: 59
                        Is it Etienne or Shovels?)
                      13. +6
                        26 May 2019 20: 38
                        so I realized that this is the thoughtful reasoning of the sofa Lopatov, Etienne does not smell here))))
                      14. -3
                        26 May 2019 17: 36
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        1) What artillery guns according to Etienne (or supposedly according to Etienne) are we talking about (type, caliber)

                        ?
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        The source of your numbers?

                        Naturally Shooting Rules. We, real artillerymen, are turning to them.
                      15. +5
                        26 May 2019 18: 09
                        Are you a real gunner? laughing laughing
                        then the end of our artillery laughing
                        Well, I understand, distort your fabrications, modern experience - to the First World War
                      16. -3
                        26 May 2019 18: 45
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        Are you a real gunner?
                        then the end of our artillery

                        At least I know what "mounted" and "floor" are. Unlike some "experts" ....

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        Well, I understand, distort your fabrications, modern experience - to the First World War

                        Let it be known to you that physics and probability theory have not changed since then. 8)))))))
                        Moreover, the HE shell of the 76-mm gun is still the same (just for reference, you do not know for sure, the "shell" in artillery is one thing, but the "shot" is another. "Shot" into the gun is loaded, "shell" from the gun crashes)

                        However, some prominent theorists of such knowledge do not need to broadcast stupidity with aplomb.
                      17. 0
                        26 May 2019 18: 50
                        Quote: Spade
                        "shell" in artillery is one thing, and "shot" is another. the "shot" is loaded into the gun, the "shell" is fired from the gun

                        Shotguns are loaded with a shot. Rifled guns are loaded with unitary cartridges (or artillery cartridges).
                      18. -2
                        26 May 2019 19: 06
                        Quote: r910
                        Shotguns are loaded with a shot. Rifled guns are loaded with unitary cartridges (or artillery cartridges).


                        All guns are loaded with "shots". Even tank ones. And mortars too.

                        Just the design of the shot is different. Depending on the type of loading: unitary, split-sleeve, cartridge and modular

                        Quote: r910
                        Rifled guns are loaded with unitary cartridges (or artillery cartridges).

                        For example, at the moment, in the artillery of all countries there is not a single rifled gun using unitaries. Remained capes, modular and separate-shell.

                        Unitars are only small-caliber and marine. And artillery requires a variable charge.

                        Quote: r910
                        Shotguns are loaded with a shot.

                        By the way, the MT-12 smoothbore gun is charged with a unitary shot. Thus, a unitary, which seems to be supposed to charge rifled 8)))))
                      19. +1
                        26 May 2019 20: 29
                        Quote: Spade
                        All guns are loaded with "shots". Even tank ones. And mortars too.

                        Well, what you do not know what trunks of modern tank guns, I understand.
                        Quote: Spade
                        By the way, the MT-12 smoothbore gun is charged with a unitary shot. The unitary, which seems to be charged with rifled 8

                        Yeah The original statement.
                      20. +6
                        26 May 2019 18: 58
                        At least I know what "mounted" and "flat" are. Unlike some "experts" ..

                        apparently you don’t know
                        all your philosophizing - let them stay with you
                      21. -3
                        26 May 2019 20: 05
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        apparently you don’t know

                        Even as I know, I can even name the article number in PSiUO

                        For the first and last time I spend an educational program on this topic. And even so scary because of such a dense
                        With a closed fire, you can shoot mounted, and laying, and mortar. Direct fire can shoot flat and mounted. Semi-direct tip of flat, mounted and mortar
                      22. +6
                        26 May 2019 20: 15
                        Do not teach a scientist, but you know what, in rhyme ....
          2. +9
            25 May 2019 21: 06
            So your Lopatov Etienne is not at all "the same art specialist"
            Here you need to look at the PMV statistics, which the author successfully does
            1. -2
              25 May 2019 21: 28
              Quote: Hunghouse
              So your Lopatov Etienne is not at all "the same art specialist"

              Of course not the one. This is the same as comparing Zhukov and Batyushkin. Zhukov has only memoirs, and Batyushkin wrote a tactics textbook.
              8))))))))))))))))))))))))
              1. +9
                25 May 2019 21: 42
                That's it
                Gaskuen - informative work precisely on artillery. Analysis of the entire experience of PMV. One of a kind. There is no point arguing with this.
                Etienne was not standing next to him in artillery.
                But we do not need tanks and aircraft here. And so you can remember a lot of people. For example, the same Erra.
                1. -1
                  25 May 2019 22: 16
                  Quote: Hunghouse
                  Gaskuen - informative work precisely on artillery.

                  Very, very controversial.

                  Quote: Hunghouse
                  Etienne was not standing next to him in artillery.

                  Exactly, Zhukov also did not stand next to Batyushkin.

                  Quote: Hunghouse
                  Gaskuen - informative work precisely on artillery. Analysis of the entire experience of PMV. One of a kind.

                  eight))))))))))))))
                  Just watch Barsukov's multi-volume Artillery of the Russian Army. Here he has an informative work. About artillery on the eve and during the First World War. Indeed "experience analysis". In four volumes. And Gaskoin has so ... Sci-pop ...
                  1. +8
                    26 May 2019 07: 26
                    Baosukov - Russian artillery, Gaskuen - French.
                    And Barsukov, in addition to labor in 4 volumes, has a lot more.
                    And Gaskuen is far from scientific. First you need to read)))
                    And what can you know about this?
                    In your head are mixed aviation and self-propelled guns, the first and second world wars. All are one ....
                    You are positioning yourself with a specialist Lopatov, but it’s funny for me to read your opuses "SPGs, direct fire reduce ammunition consumption"
                    Who are you kidding here? Like direct-fire self-propelled guns firing at the leading edge, they can replace howitzer and heavy artillery, striking closures. Especially in the face of layered multiband defense of the positional period on the French front of World War I?
                    You will first understand simple things before writing nonsense with aplomb
                    1. -2
                      26 May 2019 10: 25
                      Quote: Hunghouse
                      Baosukov - Russian artillery

                      Barsukova you also did not read. You can not explore Russian artillery in isolation from the artillery of other warring parties.
                      Quote: Hunghouse
                      And Gaskuen is far from scientific.

                      And you read his work ... Damn, he himself in the preface declares him a scientific scientist 8))))))))))))))
                      Especially for you, I quote: "This work has the main purpose of acquainting the society ..."
                      "Finally, we will acquaint the broad masses of the French with the necessary military truths ..."


                      Quote: Hunghouse
                      but I find it funny to read your opuses "direct-fire self-propelled guns reduce ammunition consumption"

                      Uh ... actually it's a reinforced concrete fact to this day. Which is bigger, 12 or 300? I hope that your level of knowledge in arithmetic is sufficient to answer this question.

                      Quote: Hunghouse
                      Like self-propelled guns direct fire on the front edge

                      In fact, artillery also for the most part shoots at the front line. 8)))) Not only that, starting from the Second World War they began to allocate from art. gun units that during the artillery preparation of the attack fired direct fire. Up to monsters like ML-20

                      Quote: Hunghouse
                      Especially in layered defense

                      Damn, do you have at least minimal knowledge in history ??? Mortars, bombs, trench guns ... Have you ever heard of these types of weapons from World War I ??? Last generally generally direct and half-direct fire shot ....
                      Before arguing, it is necessary to know at least the subject matter of the dispute ...




                      Quote: Hunghouse
                      You will first understand simple things before writing nonsense with aplomb

                      Exactly. Just golden words, I will highlight them for you
                      1. +5
                        26 May 2019 15: 51
                        We all read Barsukov Lopatov, do not force)))))
                        I'm talking about a 4-volume. Because his other works - you have not seen in your eyes)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
                        about your level of shovels I repeat that everything is clear
                        In fact, artillery also for the most part shoots at the front edge

                        look carefully at what are the goals for different types of artillery before writing nonsense.
                        here it is
                        Like direct-fire self-propelled guns firing at the leading edge, they can replace howitzer and heavy artillery, striking closures. Especially in the context of layered multiband defense of the positional period on the French front of World War I

                        you poor fellow cannot answer, for you have a poor idea of ​​the specifics of positional PMB databases
                        You will first understand simple things before writing nonsense with aplomb
                        Just golden words, I will highlight them for you

                        for you shovels good
                      2. -3
                        26 May 2019 16: 57
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        We all read Barsukov

                        Not very similar ... If you put an "equal" sign between Baksukov and Gaskuen

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        look carefully at what are the goals for different types of artillery before writing nonsense.

                        "I congratulate you Sharik ...." (c)
                        How would you explain easier. Everything depends on the goals. And it’s quite normal when heavy artillery works on the front edge of a well-equipped defense plan, and 76-mm guns shoot far beyond the front edge. For example, shelling the enemy’s batteries, convoy transport routes and the like
                        So I hasten to please you, your misconceptions that the large caliber hit the targets in depth, and the average at the front edge is deeply erroneous. The goal determines the caliber used, not the range 8)))

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        you poor fellow cannot answer, for you have a poor idea of ​​the specifics of positional PMB databases

                        And what is there to "answer" if life has answered? I will give you a hint, it all started on the Somme. When Captain Mortimer's tank destroyed a German heavy machine gun with its cannon fire.
                        You poor fellow cannot even imagine how many direct targets were destroyed during World War I.
                        Despite some "specificity of positional databases". Which exists only in your brains, and did not exist in reality. Otherwise, tanks, trench guns and other weapons designed exclusively for direct fire would not have appeared. From such things ...

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        for you shovels

                        Well, I'm with such an aplomb of nonsense not prophetic, both of you .... laughing

                        Oh yes, so as not to be distracted. Hack it on your nose: tanks can ride. Trivial, but for some reason you are not in the know. Therefore, there are no problems for tanks to hit targets with direct fire "in conditions of echeloned multi-lane defense".
                        Again, tanks can ride lol
                      3. +5
                        26 May 2019 17: 07
                        Everything depends on the goals.

                        So tell me (based on the charters of those years) - what are the goals for different types of artillery?
                        deftly dodged the answer))))))))))))))
                        Despite some "specificity of positional databases". Which exists only in your brains, and did not exist in reality. Otherwise, tanks, trench guns and other weapons designed exclusively for direct fire would not have appeared. From such things ...

                        it is not in the brains of the poor fellow, but in the real life of that period. Bricks are written about it and mountains of memories. Both tanks and trench guns are its elements. But they can do nothing with the goals under the closures, which are the basis of even the field fortifications of that period.
                        Yes, tanks can drive the ball, but they should not be overestimated in the WWI. They know how to ride, but remain only tactical weapons and quickly get out. Read articles on tank operations in the VO. I can throw, if it’s hard with the search.
                        Separated multiband defense is also a problem for tanks - in some operations they were even selected in terms of size. To overcome the wide trenches. Under the same Malmaison.
                        And here's another thing - on the Western Front in 1918, the war periodically took maneuverable forms, after one of the opponents broke out into the operational space.
                        read special literature, and preferably not a modern flood, but the works of 20-30 years. written by experts, and even front-line soldiers.
                      4. +7
                        26 May 2019 17: 09
                        shovels
                        Despite some "specificity of positional databases". Which exists only in your brains, and did not exist in reality. Otherwise, tanks, trench guns and other weapons designed exclusively for direct fire would not have appeared. From such cases

                        they appeared, tanks, and trench guns as a response to the specifics of positional warfare
                        from such matters))))))))))))
                      5. +7
                        26 May 2019 17: 11
                        shovels
                        If you put an "equal" sign between Baksukov and Gaskuen

                        I did not put such a sign for shovels. another juggling, as usual.
                        from such affairs buddy
                      6. -3
                        26 May 2019 17: 33
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        they appeared, tanks, and trench guns as a response to the specifics of positional warfare

                        Exactly! But there is a small problem:
                        Here in the comments, two prominent VO-shny thioretegs with foam at the mouth prove that in the conditions of the First World War direct aiming was impossible. But tanks and trench guns in those days used it.
                        I hope you understand the depth of their errors laughing
                      7. +6
                        26 May 2019 18: 03
                        Direct aiming at a positional war was not impossible. you distort again
                        but the lion's portion of the targets was hit by mounted fire
                        I hope you understand the depth of your errors laughing
                      8. -3
                        26 May 2019 18: 38
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        Direct aiming at a positional war was not impossible

                        Well, finally, at least one came ...
                        I hope there will be no more stupid statements that direct fire could not reduce ammunition consumption because "how can self-propelled guns firing direct fire at the front edge, can replace howitzer and heavy artillery striking closures" (c)?
                        And no one else would mind that the appearance of tanks reduced the consumption of artillery shells?

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        but the lion's portion of the targets was hit by mounted fire
                        I hope you understand the depth of your errors laughing

                        Uh .... I can’t even appreciate the depth of your ignorance, you don’t understand the elementary.

                        Next time, do not try to mix borsch in one pan in the form of mounted and flat fire, pasta in the form of Closed fire and direct fire and compote in the form closed, half-closed and open fire

                        "The lion's share of targets" in the First World War was struck not by mounted but by flat fire from closed firing positions.

                        Here is a word, maybe with such "knowledge" you shouldn't get into disputes?
                      9. +5
                        26 May 2019 19: 06
                        I hope there will be no more stupid statements that direct fire could not reduce ammunition consumption, because "like self-propelled guns firing direct fire at the front edge, they can replace howitzer and heavy artillery striking closures"

                        yes, finally, understand that flat shooting cannot replace hinged shooting.
                        and no sau (in PMV it just doesn’t mean anything) can replace thousands of barrels of howitzer and heavy artillery. In vernacular - you drive shovels.
                        "the lion's share of targets" in the First World War was struck not by mounted but by flat fire from closed firing positions

                        during the period of positional warfare - it was mounted. Study statistics you don't know
                        differentiate between periods of positional and maneuverable war.
                        Next time, do not try to mix borsch in the same pan in the form of a mounted and flat fire, pasta in the form of firing with closed fire and direct fire and stewed fruit in the form of closed, half-closed and open fire and scratch your tongue further

                        these basic things are a discovery for you, not for me laughing wink
                        if you want to scratch your tongue further - we move to the second part of the article
                      10. -3
                        26 May 2019 19: 23
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        yes, finally, understand that flat shooting cannot replace hinged shooting.

                        It’s even worse than I thought .... You don’t know what hinged shooting is, you know what it means to shoot. And you climb to argue about something ...

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        during the period of positional warfare - it was mounted. Study statistics you don't know
                        differentiate between periods of positional and maneuverable war.

                        eight)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
                        Not only do not know, but also persist in ignorance.
                        You are on the Internet. read 8))))))))))))))

                        Just a hint, the flooring from the hinged one differs only in the cast angle 8))))))))))))))))))))))))

                        Quire. It’s all the same that a person who does not know what a nail would start arguing about the method of driving them ...
                      11. +6
                        26 May 2019 20: 27
                        You don’t know what mounted shooting is, you know what deck shooting is. And you climb to argue about something ...

                        and what did you answer here ??
                        your aspirations only speak of ignorance, nothing more
                      12. -3
                        26 May 2019 17: 29
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        So tell me (based on the charters of those years) - what are the goals for different types of artillery?

                        Such a crap has never been included in any charter. At least 240 machine guns if tactical conditions require it.

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        it is not in the brains of the poor fellow, but in the real life of that period.

                        So where??? In that alternative reality in which, as you here declare with an ally, there was no place for direct fire?
                        In real life, there was direct fire, despite all the "specifics" In real life there were tanks, in real life there were trench tools.

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        yes, the ball tanks can ride

                        Great discovery 8)))))))))))))))))
                        So, moving forward, they had the opportunity to hit targets at different lines of the same "layered multi-lane defense of the positional period"
                        See, it's that simple. Even for you ...
                        laughing
                      13. +5
                        26 May 2019 18: 07
                        Such a crap has never been included in any charter.

                        yah? And you watched them, even Russian, charters of field, howitzer artillery laughing
                        Yes, and maybe I'm talking about instruction? laughing
                        In real life, there was direct fire, despite all the "specifics" In real life there were tanks, in real life there were trench tools.

                        in real life, the main artillery in positional warfare was howitzer and heavy. and tanks were enough for 2-3 days, as a rule laughing
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        yes, the ball tanks can ride

                        Great discovery 8)))))))))))))))))

                        so this is your discovery laughing
                        So, moving forward, they had the opportunity to hit targets at different lines of the same "layered multi-lane defense of the positional period"

                        if you managed to break through the defense, why not. But most of the goals, goals behind closures were not available to them.
                        It’s probably very difficult for you and it’s extremely difficult to realize laughing
                      14. -4
                        26 May 2019 18: 58
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        yah? And you watched them, even Russian, charters of field, howitzer artillery

                        Of course I didn’t look. They did not exist.


                        Quote: Albatroz
                        in real life, the main artillery in positional warfare was howitzer and heavy

                        Again soup and porridge in one pan. Ignorance ...
                        Heavy artillery was both howitzer and cannon. And the guns are more. Field artillery and cannon and howitzer. And there are more guns

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        It’s probably very difficult for you and it’s extremely difficult to realize

                        Naturally. Like any other nonsense. Starting to work on targets with direct fire is excellent even until the moment of "breaking through the defense." Which, in fact, has always been done.
                      15. +5
                        26 May 2019 19: 16
                        Lopatov (Lopatov) Today, 18: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        yah? And you watched them, even Russian, charters of field, howitzer artillery

                        Of course I didn’t look. They did not exist.

                        So you got caught, an ignorant liar.

                        For example
                        Did not the instructions also exist? laughing
                        heavy artillery was both howitzer and cannon. And the guns are more. Field artillery and cannon and howitzer. And there are more guns

                        Naturally, howitzer fights with closures. Primarily
                        Starting to work on targets with direct fire is excellent even until the moment of "breaking through the defense." Which, in fact, has always been done.

                        you are a dreamer. direct sweeping at the cutting edge will not help to crush the enemy’s layered defense.
                        Our instructions and the French here do not even make sense to illuminate. learn the basics first
                      16. -4
                        26 May 2019 19: 57
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        So you got caught, an ignorant liar.

                        This is five points !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                        Even the screen did. And I didn’t bother to read about what there.
                        eight))))))))))))))))))
                        I am under the table...
                        If you had enough substance in your head to climb beyond the title page, you would understand why it says "drill"And why there is absolutely nothing in tactics, only actions with a gun. We now call such things" Supplement to the manual for combat work. "For each sample, separate.
                        Aren't you ashamed to drive yourself under the baseboard?

                        So, the tactics of using artillery in those days were described in three guiding documents. Field Regulations (common for all branches of the armed forces), "Manual for Field Artillery Operations in Battle" and partially in the Rules of Shooting.
                        None of these documents prohibit the use of heavy artillery along the front line.
                        QED

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        Naturally, howitzer fights with closures. Primarily

                        eight)))))))))))))))))))
                        Take field artillery. Barsukov: Beginning of the 17th year. 3 600 000 76 mm cannon shells per month, 400 000 122 mm howitzer grenades.
                        3.6 million is 9 times more than 0.4 million
                        We do not discuss these nonsense anymore.


                        Quote: Albatroz
                        you are a dreamer. direct sweeping at the cutting edge will not help to crush the enemy’s layered defense.

                        Nevertheless, this happened both in the First and in the Second World War. The defeat of individual targets by direct fire during the artillery preparation of the attack and artillery support of the attack was used without fail.

                        Apparently, there was no "expert" who would try to explain to the really fighting people that the water is dry, and the PN shooting is ineffective 8))))
                      17. +5
                        26 May 2019 20: 25
                        I am under the table

                        Stay there
                        If you had enough substance in your head to climb beyond the title page, you would understand why it says "combatant". And why there is absolutely nothing in tactics, only actions with a weapon.

                        No, dear. There is a cannon doctrine, and there is a battery doctrine.
                        Field Regulations (common to all branches of the armed forces), "Manual for Field Artillery Operations in Battle" and partially in the Rules of Shooting.

                        So there are still instructions. Wow! Already progress laughing
                        None of these documents prohibit the use of heavy artillery along the front line.
                        QED

                        lol
                        Yes, I did not say that heavy artillery CANNOT work along the front line. But the main goals for heavy and howitzer artillery are behind closures. And at the forefront and (mostly) behind it.
                        you said that a few self-propelled guns and trench guns are enough to break through the positional defense of the WWII. And without heavy and howitzer artillery.
                        supposedly tanks can solve everything. But in the PMV, everything was decided by artillery, not tanks.
                        Barsukov: Beginning of the 17th year. 3 600 000 76 mm cannon shells per month, 400 000 122 mm howitzer grenades.
                        3.6 million is 9 times more than 0.4 million
                        We do not discuss these nonsense anymore.

                        So what???
                        What does Barsukov have to do with it? We have our own specifics of positional defense. The lack of howitzer and heavy shells. Yes, and 400 thousand can be disposed of more intelligently than a million. Moreover, there are always more guns than howitzers, this is undeniable. But...
                        Can we still see the numbers of the French Front?)))))))))))))))) 0
                        Nevertheless, this happened both in the First and in the Second World War. The defeat of individual targets by direct fire during the artillery preparation of the attack and artillery support of the attack was used without fail.

                        in any case, it didn’t do the weather. direct fire began to prevail except in the Civil
                        The rest of the verbal abduction is on your conscience a laden gunner
                      18. -3
                        26 May 2019 20: 45
                        Quote: Albatroz
                        No, dear. There is a cannon doctrine, and there is a battery doctrine.

                        And there is a character who has scanned the title page and closed. Even without a table of contents.

                        There is tactics, there is combat work. These are different subjects of study.
                        You will not study the upheaval of the coup according to the drill charter. Although ... probably you can still ...


                        Quote: Albatroz
                        Yes, I did not say that heavy artillery CANNOT work along the front line.

                        Which I pointed out. Dot


                        Quote: Albatroz
                        So what???
                        what does Barsukov have to do with it?

                        The next "argument" will be "where are the war and artillery"?
                        The most specific figures. Push consumption. Ammunition is 9 times the howitzer consumption. Fact.

                        Quote: Albatroz
                        it didn’t do the weather anyway

                        Cut off your little fingers, "they don't make the weather" 8)))))))))
                        There are reconnaissance targets at the forefront, there is an offensive. You can hit them with direct fire, spending dozens and a half shells from the force, or you can use closed fire, having spent 900. For each target
                        And here sits Ykspert, who claims that the number of shells and the time spent "does not make the weather" ...
                      19. +6
                        26 May 2019 20: 49
                        And there is a character who has scanned the title page and closed. Even without a table of contents.
                        There is tactics, there is combat work. These are different subjects of study.
                        You will not study the upheaval of the coup according to the drill charter. Although ... probably you can still

                        enough of you and part of the title, from the character, something out there thinking for Etienne and thoughtfully discussing the role of self-propelled guns and attack aircraft in WWI laughing
                        common truths I know without you
                        So what are the French numbers for ammunition?
                        or so you’ll chat on abstract topics: Barsukov, tanchiki, direct fire wassat
                      20. +10
                        1 June 2019 08: 53
                        In the 2nd part of the article, we found out that shovels are a liar who does not know the subject.
                        With historical examples found out and confirmed.
                        The unsubstantiated inventor.
                        Whoever wants to can get acquainted with my exposures of Shovel’s lies about the alleged Russian artillery in WWII not simultaneously firing with shrapnel / HE shells.
                        And who, like shovels, lied once, that lies in everything.
                        So do not believe Shovel - he is completely disavowed wink
          3. 0
            26 May 2019 16: 48
            Her, Gaskuen is the head.
            Do not put a finger in his mouth, especially clean.
            By the way, who is Gaskuen?
  6. -1
    25 May 2019 20: 24
    You can also remember how the Americans went to the Ho Chi Minh trail. It sharply turns out that it’s cheaper and faster to put one expensive corrected ammunition than ironing for days on whom God will send conventional ammunition. And thoughtfully and on the areas, it is possible and ODBami. It also turns out mentally.
    1. -2
      25 May 2019 20: 55
      Quote: Dmitriy Zadorozhniy
      It sharply turns out that it’s cheaper and faster to put one expensive corrected ammunition

      If you know where.
      Here, in fact, the moment of a strong lag in the artillery capabilities in terms of firing range and artillery reconnaissance capabilities was manifested.
      What we also have now ... Some when discussing artillery guns / installations primarily pay attention to the maximum firing range.
  7. sen
    +1
    26 May 2019 04: 43
    After the French poured a sea of ​​fire onto the German trenches, they went on the open attack, since they believed that after such preparation no one should survive, but they were met by heavy machine-gun fire.
  8. -2
    26 May 2019 12: 39
    one ton of ammunition disabled 4-5 Germans killed (which was already far from the situation in the very first month of the war); and in the second half of 1918, for every German killed, the French spent from 4 to 5 tons of ammunition.

    I will assume that the tasks have changed somewhat if we compare the beginning and end of the war. So: Given the unsuccessful operations of the beginning of 1916, instructions appeared, one of the points, the tasks of artillery during the attack period to determine: the destruction of the enemy’s wire and other barriers, its defenses and fortifications of the first and second lines; ...
  9. 0
    26 May 2019 15: 55
    If artillery doesn’t beat out of nowhere, then good enemy handling will not be superfluous.
  10. +10
    26 May 2019 15: 58
    Informative solid article,
    Thank you!
  11. -1
    29 May 2019 14: 52
    Strange statement of the question, if the author cares about combat effectiveness.
    In his memoirs, a German soldier writes that Russian artillery shoots hard, but anywhere. Although this produces a strong psychological effect. But does not kill. And the fact that does not kill us, as you know, makes us stronger.
    1. +10
      1 June 2019 08: 48
      Strange question if the author cares about combat effectiveness

      Strange to stupid comment with a traditional twist of an Internet resident
      In his memoirs, a German soldier writes that Russian artillery shoots hard, but anywhere.

      Really?)) Memoir with the exact indication of the page - with the studio! However, you never know what happened in one case. And a hundred and one memoirs are where the Germans and not only they write the opposite, considering the Russian artillery to be stronger than the German artillery in quality.
      that which does not kill us, as you know, makes us stronger.

      for you this rule is 100% valid
  12. The comment was deleted.