Arctic torpedo scandal

In the newest military stories There were several big torpedo scandals:


• German - with torpedoes with contactless fuses of “gray wolves” Doenitz;

• American - with a set of problems in terms of reliability of torpedoes in combat conditions of US Navy submarines in World War II

These problems cost dearly both Kriegsmarine and the US Navy, so after the war, the US Navy was very tough on creating new torpedoes and conducting their tests. Under the conditions of the Cold War, which threatened to become “hot,” the US Naval Forces would not categorically want to obtain useless torpedoes (and other means of submarine warfare).

Unfortunately, we had a lot worse. The closure of objective information on the experience of using torpedoes in the Finnish, World War II and World War II led to the fact that we “did not notice” acute torpedo problems in their course and did not have an incentive for the similar US Navy to harshly raise questions to industry as a result and testing in "torpedo" R & D.

Arctic torpedo scandal

Torpedo attack PLA US Navy. Will there be something to answer and protect our submariners?


But now our torpedo scandal actually burst out. And it gives hope for the opening and the elimination of the serious problems of our sea underwater weapons.

Released to "MIC", "NVO", "Military Review" articles (and their “resonant coverage” in the online edition of "Tape") on the problems of combat readiness of the submarine forces of the North fleet (who had never carried out torpedo fire under ice with operating homing systems) caused a stormy reaction: in the media, society, the Ministry of Defense and government bodies (up to official requests: “sort it out and report”).



Earlier, official representatives of the Ministry of Defense stated that “everything is in order”, torpedo firing (“combat training exercises”) in the Arctic are “being conducted”.

Even more surprising is the statement that the Navy does not work out combat training exercises in the Arctic. Klimov probably does not bother with conventional monitoring news information on this subject.


Quote from the city of Volosatov, deputy head of the Information and Mass Communications Department of the Ministry of Defense ("MIC").

On the “readiness for 100% of all tasks” in the Arctic, the Commander of the Northern Fleet Admiral Evmenov repeatedly stated:

Our submarines are permanently present under the ice of the Arctic. For obvious reasons, we will not go into the details of this work, but I can say that ... the Northern Fleet has enormous experience in icebreaking and operating underwater and surface ships in arctic conditions
... The main evaluation criterion is the readiness of the ships and their crews to perform tasks in their main destination at sea. The fact that today the North Sea submariners are ready to perform all the tasks assigned to 100% I have no doubt ...
We also closely monitor the activities of our subarctic neighbors in this region. We draw conclusions and on the basis of them we improve our training.



Admiral Evmenov at the 8 International Forum "Arctic". Photo redstar.ru


However, this problem (the complete absence of torpedo firing of the Russian Navy in ice conditions) actually exists, and statements by a number of people about the alleged lack of it are either related to the lack of objective information or their deliberate concealment.

However, if the IIMK Department (or other officials of the Navy and the Ministry of Defense) have something to say to this, then as they say, we will listen carefully. Since the announcement of Mr. Volosatov (January 29) about the availability of "official news on training combat training exercises in the Arctic" with the use of practical torpedo weapons by the Russian Navy, they did not find any such information and presented it. AND It will take a long time to “search” for it - up to the moment when such shooting will finally be carried out. Given the resonance of this issue both in society and in the military-political leadership, this is now only a matter of time.

There is a situation when publications in the media and public outcry on the acute problem of the country's defense have caused (there is no doubt that this will take place) the adoption of long overdue decisions - crucial for the country's defense.

Torpedoes No technical problems. Problems - in another

And here we can agree with the opinion of Rear Admiral, retired V.Ya. Dudko (voiced by him on this issue to FAN):

... until now, the shooting necessary for this was not really carried out, although the Americans do it all the time. But such proposals are prepared and, if necessary, can be implemented.


Yes, indeed, the proposals mentioned by Rear Admiral Dudko were prepared. There are some discrepancies among specialists according to their methodology, but this is normal, provided that the tests are carried out objectively (“consensus can only be at the cemetery”, and “the sea (the tests) will show who is“ more to the right ”).

Obviously, one of the key issues of our ice torpedo firing is the development of a qualitative test methodology, their objective conduct. And here it is not necessary to count on persons who have previously stained themselves with dubious methods of testing. "Will the fleet" Ichthyosaur "?

... a few years ago, the author of the article was asked about the "victorious reports" about the "testing" of the upgraded USET-80 equipment with a "stop target" - a small displacement torpedo with a "large" detection distance. However, a careful analysis of the "reports" showed that the "tests" were carried out in lake conditions of very small waves, in the conditions of a "cold" near-surface layer (with the formation of an acoustic "channel" with a significant positive sound propagation anomaly). Taking into account such "aquarium" test conditions (not related to the sea), the question already arises: why was the result so small?
Homeland should know their "heroes". The developer of programs and techniques of such “advanced” tests is the head of the torpedo department of the Central Research Institute of the Navy S.P. Voloshin. The same person is the developer of the TTZ at the Lomonos design and development works, which is closed due to the obviously impossible deadlines and requirements and the lack of a scientific and technical reserve for their implementation.


More examples? Please: one of our traditional "tricks" with torpedo tests supposedly in "jamming" conditions is setting up hydroacoustic countermeasures (by the way, very expensive) "aside", so that they "do not interfere with torpedoes induced". Or application in such, if one may say so, tests, obviously ancient and absolutely ineffective CPAP, as MG-34 and GUI-1.

Yes, strictly speaking, the very fact of the absence of torpedo firing (with the included “heads”) in the Arctic speaks for itself!

With the tests of our torpedoes for a long time everything is very, very bad.

Comment on the site "MIC" article S. Zhandarova 10.02.2015 g.

... with all the "touching care" of Zhandarov about FOSS, he, being the representative of Concern IPO "Gidropribor" in Moscow, "forgot" to note the fact that weapons testing in the Arctic is not only not carried out, but the product was personally lobbied by him, "Limited combat capability" in the Arctic, without the necessary tests.


The point here is as follows.

The electric batteries of the copper-magnesium circuit, which are the main ones for the naval torpedoes, have never been tested for charging with cold water.

The values ​​indicated in the technical specifications are not even “theoretical”, but are actually borrowed from silver-magnesium batteries (where the “cold-cocking” is ok). There are good reasons to believe that the “cold water” (the figures in the documents are given) simply will not cause the battery to start and start, i.e. the torpedo will be absolutely unfit. The reason for such a scandalous situation: the USSR defense complex, unable to provide supplies of silver-magnesium batteries for new generation torpedoes of 3 submarines due to a lack of silver, replaced it with copper at the beginning of 80's. "Questions" in this case arose, incl. and “cold water”, but those who asked them, turned out to be a powerful pressure. Opening the situation with copper-magnesium batteries for the military-industrial complex would collapse a series of torpedoes and raise tough questions for the Navy and the Ministry of Defense both on the ammunition load of submarines and on compliance with the positions held by those who allowed it all.

Considering the fact that today's "chief torpedo adviser" of the commander-in-chief of the Navy Korolev, Vice-Admiral Shevchenko (aka "part-time" and "Chief Arctic Admiral"), has long been the main opponent of the "Physicist" torpedo, promoting not just obsolete products with extremely low TTH (for example, "Kant"), and including not ensuring reliable use in the Arctic, it is necessary to talk about all this, openly and publicly. For the reports of Mr. Shevchenko in the “high offices”, to put it mildly, are not different in objectivity.


Retired Vice Admiral A.I.


It is to them that “information” is distributed, for example, about the supposedly exceptional toxicity of the “Physics” unitary fuel.

According to the actual situation, they spoke exhaustively. leading specialists of JSC Morteplotekhnika V. F. Gurov and Yu. I. Sannikov:

The opinion that exists in some Navy circles about the high toxicity of the fuel is extremely exaggerated. During the operation of torpedoes, naval personnel may face the problem of fuel toxicity only in an emergency situation during depressurization of the fuel tank. It should be noted that during 40 years of fuel handling in the Scientific Research Institute of Marine Engineering, there was not a single case of occupational disease or poisoning, despite repeated direct contact with the fuel. US torpedo weapons using Otto-Fuel II fuel are used in dozens of countries around the world on all continents.



Practical torpedoes Mk48 and children in the torpedo compartment of the submarine. Unlike our torpedoes, in Mk48 the fuel is not encapsulated, and the torpedoes themselves in the photo have traces of intense exploitation (shooting)


The fact of the low toxicity of unitary fuel is confirmed by the memories of S. I. Berdichsky in the third volume of the book “Central Research Institute“ Gidropribor ”and its people” with a description of “terry” security breaches for handling unitary fuel. For example, he repeatedly, without being able to even wash himself, walked for several days, drenched in the "working off" of oil and fuel after the maintenance of a torpedo from the sea. However, there were no serious health consequences for S. I. Berdichesky.

In the end, the author of this article, dealing with the topic of unitary fuel, found it necessary to check it on himself, which Shevchenko personally reported on as early as 2012. what Shevchenko did and does is not “bona fide error” (for objective information was provided to him more than once), but a very specific “interest”.

Well, according to the “PR” of Shevchenko as “an outstanding but underestimated naval commander” (including the search operation “Atrin”), it is appropriate to quote the commander of the multipurpose PL-A K-244 (participant of the “Atrin”), Captain 1 retired rank V. Alikov:

The mistakes of the leadership of the PPO "Atrina" in the preparation and in the process of the march predetermined the loss of the stealth of the boats.
Testing of joint actions of submarines in tactical groups was carried out "in a general" manner, regardless of the composition of the groups that were assigned to conduct search operations, and not with the commanders of those tactical groups. Such working off was of a formal nature, since it did not ensure the formation of mutual understanding of specific people, and even ruled out the possibility of remembering the acoustic portraits of those boats with which they were to “catch” the enemy.
The submarines could not cooperate in the operation either among themselves or with other RPLS forces involved in participation in Atrin, because the preparation for engagement was not carried out.
... the situation in which the preparation for Atrin was going on characterizes the episode, ... by the commander of the divisional division Shevchenko, with cavalry and provocations, including those in public, the commander was brought to the point that he promised to shoot him.


16 October 2018 G. in the newspaper "MIC" Shevchenko was publicly asked questions and suggestions to publicly explain his actions on a number of issues, including

4. Lobbying instead of “Physics” of another torpedo, with TTX is much worse than that of the Mk48 mod.1 (1971 year), that is, the advancement of the backwardness of the naval weapon of the Navy from the world level that is notorious in 30 – 40.
5. Exceptions to conduct the necessary tests of this torpedo with reasonable doubts about its combat capability in the Arctic ...


Here a question may arise regarding the position of the author on the torpedo “Physicist” (especially since earlier in a number of documents he considered the execution of such shooting by a number of other torpedo samples). The point here is simple: a torpedo with a long range (no less than the effective range of the enemy's torpedoes), which has a good noise-tolerant digital homing and remote control system, is needed under the ice. So today we have one: "Physicist-1" (with all its advantages and disadvantages).



At the same time, there are problems with “Physics”, and serious (especially with respect to simply antique telecontrol (with a towed bobbin reel), corresponding to the western level of the 60-s of the last century). But their elimination is not just realistic, we simply have no right to other options, because the price of the issue is the combat capability of the submarine forces of the Navy and the combat stability of the NSNF (more on this in detail below).

According to official statements of the Navy and the Ministry of Defense, following the results of combat training for 2018, there was not a single prize from the commander in chief by the torpedo “Physicist-1”. Taking into account the fact that the “Physicist” has the highest performance characteristics of all domestic torpedoes, a logical conclusion follows that there are very serious problems with the development of this torpedo in the fleet.

There is nothing surprising in this, and the reasons for this have long been called.

I am sure that the first shooting under the ice will turn out to be largely a failure. And this is an objective fact. Do not worry: a tough and decisive elimination of the identified deficiencies, and again shooting. More disadvantages? Again, their removal and shooting. And the task will be solved, because, I repeat, there are no technical problems, everything is within our reach and can be solved. The question is exclusively in the tough formulation of the question (just as it was done earlier with the “Polyment-Redut” AAMS).

Our submarines must have reliable and effective torpedo weapons and be able to use them in all conditions of the situation (including under the ice)!

At the same time, it is highly advisable to modernize the torpedo “Physicist-1” (previously manufactured products) with the introduction of modern remote control and a number of other issues (set out in non-public documents).

Yes, a number of “respected” organizations of the military-industrial complex (first of all, SPBM Malakhit) will state this: “Excellent! Please give us the OCD of billions on 5 and the year 3-4 for “work” (actually “mastering” this funding).

And the officials of the Ministry of Defense in DOGOZ will say: “Well, we“ planned ”it. Starting work around 2023. ”

No, gentlemen! In mind and conscience, you had to do everything “yesterday”! Including in the framework of the ROC "Case". Today, taking into account the importance of these works, a decision on their conduct can and should be formalized according to the results of the first firing, and the work itself is not carried out within the framework of the new development project (there is simply no time for this, it had to be done “yesterday and immediately”), but in the order of 307 GOST (“product revision”), taking into account the existing (previously created) reserve, in particular, on the hose STU delivered to the beginning of the 2000-x to the customer (with the torpedo 211ТТ1), and the fiber-optic STU “Steering wheel” with characteristics at the level of the best foreign samples (2005 g.).


Hose reel and torpedo telecontrol system 211ТТ1 and its application



Some of the material and documentary results of the ROC "Shturval"



Towed bathysphere equipment "Pipe". Atlantic, the end of 80's


The author and a number of experts repeatedly raised the issue of using a number of results from the research work "Pipe" (AKIN, Frolov DP) in the "new" Physics. These are not “theories” but quite concrete practical breakthrough results obtained in the sea (the Atlantic Ocean) on real submarines. The implementation of these proposals in “Physics” provides not just a multiple increase in its efficiency, but a real possibility of winning “underwater duels” from the newest “Virginia”, even the old RPLN “Ryazan” (project 667BDR) (with the “new Physicists” and anti-torpedoes). I will emphasize: several leading developers on “Physics” came out of the “Frolov Group”, knew the results obtained by him, and repeatedly raised the question of their use in “Physics” and “Case”.

The fact that this question, despite repeated appeals in a “closed format”, has to be put publicly, eloquently shows “interest” (in quotes) in this on the part of Navy officials. During all this time, no one bothered to even raise the test materials and read!

The chief designer of "Physics" Mr. Grigoriev should not give interviews to various resources (and with obviously unreliable information), but be engaged in eliminating the shortcomings of his torpedo. At the moment, Mr. Grigoriev has no reason for self-praying in the media; there is nothing good in “Physics” - the merit of his predecessors.

The most widely used torpedo in the Navy, USET-80, does not have remote control, and its self-homing systems (two variants: Waterfall and Ceramics) are not just outdated. Everything is much worse. Primary for USET-80 since its “birth”, the powerful low-frequency SSN “Waterfall” has extremely low noise immunity and is practically inoperable in ice conditions.

In 1989, due to the extremely low noise immunity of “Waterfall” at shallow depths, USET-80 received a low-frequency medium-range CLE “Ceramics” (literally from the developer’s book: “reproduced on a national basis” with the USN torpedoes Mk46mod.1, 1961 g.) that, in fact, is a shameful page of domestic torpedo building.


USET-80 torpedoes with SSN "Waterfall" and "Ceramics" on racks in the torpedo compartment of the APRK 949A project. Photo: magazine MO "Orientir"


Until now, the Ceramics SSN, despite its extremely low TTX, is the most common naval SSN torpedoes.

The use of USET-80 with "Ceramics" in ice conditions is possible with very significant restrictions, and at minimal ("pistol") distances, despite the fact that the positions of enemy torpedoes are almost an order of magnitude higher than ours (TTX torpedoes are simply incomparable). Figuratively speaking, the enemy has a sniper rifle against our pistol, and this is in terms of its significant lead in detection!

In such a situation, the clash of a Russian nuclear submarine with an American or British one will be described by the word "shooting", and this rule will have almost no exceptions.

In view of the above, the only (and effective!) Answer can only be the “Physicist”. The statements of some “specialists” about “high-speed underwater missiles” (SPR) as “effective weapons in the Arctic” are engaged and have no serious grounds. The main thing is that the effective distances of the enemy with torpedoes far exceed the theoretically achievable maximum distances of the “new squalls”. Those. the enemy can shoot us with impunity from a safe distance (where it cannot be reached even by the “new“ squall ”). The first and last time, when this sensitive issue was discussed publicly, was at the round table on torpedoes on the forum "Army-2015». There were no objections to the arguments of the author in terms of the ratio of shooting distances (torpedoes have much more than the SPR) for the chief designer of the SPR who was present.

The problem of "data entry"

In the same place, on “Army-2015”, the representatives of the Navy expressed an extremely controversial thesis: “let the old ships live with the old torpedoes”. I emphasize that this was announced a year and a half after the sharp exacerbation of the military-political situation in 2014!

In general, the very division of ships into "old" and "new" is nonsense. A ship is a combat unit, while it is in service, it must be combat-ready and undergo timely upgrades. There is no sound logic behind this statement.

The real reason is “the problem of entering data into new torpedoes on old carriers”, more precisely, simply “wild” financial requests from the CIAS developer - Morinformsystem-Agat concern and SPBM Malachite (as the head organization for torpedo complexes) to pay for these works . It comes to amounts in three-digit terms (in millions of rubles). And this is only a "refinement" and "registration". The cost of the new CICS is billions. It is absolutely abnormal when in the procurement for the modernization of the “Irkutsk” APCR, the cost of a new CICS is almost equal to the cost of a new hydroacoustic complex.

At the same time, “our CUIs” are not Western ASBUs, which are actually “smart superstructures” over sonar facilities, and the processing of tactical information and the use of weapons is carried out by them not only at the “geometrical level” (as in our CES), but also “ signal ". Against this background, all Russian PIUS PLs are simply “rudimentary”, and their extremely high cost is apparently due to the fact that “someone really wants fat budget financing.” And for the sake of these "willing", we were "strangled" by all the developments of small-sized devices for data entry into weapons and the "mini-BIUS". For the situation itself when a small-sized device for extremely small money makes the main part of the work of a huge and extremely expensive CICS (calculation of firing data and their input) raises questions. And this is not some kind of "initiative". For example, the data entry module, in one of the designed PDFs, is identical with the data entry module of the CICS on the St. Petersburg submarine (providing, among other things, torpedo telecontrol). And such examples can be continued.


Backup data entry devices


The author of this article in the fleet was working out (together with interested representatives of central bodies and organizations) the questions of “tapping” new modules and the PDF in the standard firing systems on the serial Navy ship. All this was absolutely real, did not require significant funds, but in the end it ended in nothing. To the leadership of some defense companies, this turned out to be “extremely unnecessary” (for huge new CEMPs mean corresponding revenues for them), and they managed to “convey” this opinion to the command of the Navy.

For comparison: having received two Tang type submarines (the same age as our 80 project) at the start of the 611, the Turkish Navy independently upgraded them, ensuring the use of new torpedoes (including the Mk48), by installing a “mini -BIUS »VATOS. In 1999, the same submarines received a more modern version - VATOS Mk2


Mini-BIUS VATOS Mk2 (1999) Photo: http://turkishnavy.net


Those. what the Turks did quickly and easily for themselves in the 80-x, the Russian Navy could not do. The command of the Navy did not have the courage to go against certain individuals in the military-industrial complex.

How can you not remember the general designer of non-nuclear submarines Kormilitsina Yu.N. About "distant 70-x - 80-x.":

My reports to the board of the Ministry of Industry and Industry on the fact that the Knot Kiosk consists only of 2-3 racks, and the number of tasks to be solved corresponds to the systems of other developers that are enormous in size and power consumption, provoked vigorous resistance in those years to the Ministry and the headquarters of the shipbuilding industry. The fact is that the introduction of the Uzus “CUSS” led to a drastic reduction in the consumption of financial and labor resources ... the “self-sublimation” of the CICS, acoustic and navigation systems led to the creation of 3 and 4 mastodons, which were inferior in quality to the ships of a potential enemy, and unjustified costs.


Good question: Will there be an admiral in the fleet who is able to toughly put problematic issues before the military-industrial complex?

Given recent statements by Admiral Yevmenov about the “readiness” to accept already this year the problematic head orders of Yasen-M and Borey-A (without actually conducting all the necessary tests), this question seems to be extremely difficult for the Navy ...

Do I need to put such sharp "special questions" in the public media?

There is another aspect here: is it necessary to raise such sharp “special questions” in the public media? It depends on the situation, but in the one that we have today with the Russian Navy, when many critical problematic issues are “choking” and “lacquered”, when sometimes “antiques” are supplied to the armament under the guise of “new and promising VVST samples” (and without carrying out full-fledged tests), nothing remains. Our problems are not in “technology”, but “organizations”, - the reluctance to objectively assess the situation and make difficult, but necessary decisions.

Patriotism is not “lacquering” and hiding the “unpleasant truth”, but the ability to objectively see problems and conditions, to toughly pose and solve, incl. "Hard" questions of the country's defense.

A vivid example of this situation is the repeatedly mentioned article by Rear Admiral Lutsky about the problems of the anti-torpedo defense of our newest submarines!

... Subscriber projects "Ash" and "Borey" under construction are proposed to be equipped with PTZ systems, the development specifications of which were compiled in 80-s of the last century, the results of studies of the effectiveness of these tools against modern torpedoes testify to the exceptionally low probability of non-damaging submarine submarines.


The question was repeatedly raised at all levels ... However, the extremely expensive and inefficient "antiques", which Lutsky wrote about in the Sea Collection of 2010, are still being purchased by the Navy (it is in fresh tenders on the public procurement website)!

Torpedoes as a critical element of the NSNS combat stability

The question arises: maybe it’s all a trifle, airplanes are flying, boats from the pole are firing rockets, and then some strange torpedoes? ..

In one of the responses to publications on the "ice problems of our torpedoes", in a conversation with a Nation News correspondent, TASS military commentator V. Litovkin stated:

military forces need to be assessed together. For example, the Russian Navy has strategic missile forces ... no one can say that the Russian side is weaker than America ... we are inferior to the United States in some parameters, but at the same time they are retreating through air defense and missile defense systems. Russia is much stronger in the ground forces. You can pull out certain facts, but you need to be able to rise above the details and see the big picture, but she says that we are at least the second, if not the first military power of the world.


Or another example: an interview (on the same issue) to Izvestia, the head of the Bureau of Military-Political Analysis A. Mikhailov:

To argue about the combat effectiveness of the most powerful Russian fleet - the Northern - from the point of view of conducting training firing of a particular type of weapon, including the author’s publication of torpedoes “Physicist-1”, at least unprofessionally
... during 2018, the Northern Fleet conducted a series of exercises and firing involving missile cruisers, nuclear submarines, anti-submarine and other warships with firing cruise missiles, as well as sea aviation and air defense and coast guard units. The conducted exercises in practice confirm Russia's military control over the Arctic space.


Moreover, in August 2013, having arrived with a report on torpedo weapons of the Navy to the Main Command of the Navy, the author was confronted with the “point of view” of the high-ranking officer of the Navy, who supervised the work of the special services of the Navy and shipbuilding:

I do not care [another (obscene) expression was used] on your torpedoes, my “Bulava” does not fly !!!


Torpedoes (and naval underwater weapons) are not “something not very important,” this is the most critical and disastrous direction of the VVST of the Russian Federation, incl. essential for defense and strategic deterrence. The latter’s foundation is not the “range of flight and the number of SLBM warheads”, but the inevitability of a retaliatory strike, which is based on the combat strength of the NSNF (the most important part of which is naval underwater weapons and torpedoes).

Here, a question immediately arises as to the expediency for Russia of having a naval component of the SNF (NSNF). All means of the “triad” have their own disadvantages and advantages, and the reliability of deterrence is ensured by overcoming the shortcomings of some of the means of the advantages of others. The main problem of the ground and air units of the SNF is their vulnerability to the “disarming” nuclear strike. To parry this, we need to always have at least one, but guaranteed not tracked SSBN (which, of course, requires a certain grouping in the Navy).

But what's the point of having submarines that do not have the ability to protect themselves in the event of an enemy attack? What is the point in unarmed "submarine cruisers"? What will they do with the enemy?

It is necessary to clearly understand: in the medium term, no one will “fight with the battle” along the Northern Sea Route, land assault troops on the Novosibirsk Islands (respectively, working out such activities as deploying coastal SCRC there and shooting them, cause, to put it mildly, bewilderment).

The threats of Russia in Artik today emanate either from beneath the ice and water (US Navy and US Navy U.S. planes), or from the air (US Air Force).

And in the first case, reliable and effective torpedoes in ammunition - this is actually the opportunity to "own" their part of the Arctic, to reliably solve their tasks there (including the NSNF). Despite all the “vigorous” reports, this possibility is not present now, and “legal rights”, as historical experience shows, mean little against the “right of the strong”.

And the situation here is simple: either we will gain power to the underwater confrontation, or they will crush us. And the notorious insecurity of the fighting stability of the NSNS provokes the adversary to "solve problems" by force.

And the last, for my "opponents". According to the "professional attitude to work." There are two hard criteria: objectivity and the ability to select the most important from the secondary. And the attitude to the extremely important issue on the scale of all the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (readiness for effective and successful use of torpedo weapons in the Arctic by the forces of the Navy) shows who is who, visually. This is not only the “duel score” of the submarines, it is the combat stability of not only the NSNF, but also all the SNFs.

And no matter how “trivial” the interested persons try to present the combat effectiveness of Russian torpedoes in the main theaters of military operations, in fact this trifle puts the effectiveness of our entire SNF into question.

Now.
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  1. Aleks2048 April 16 2019 06: 00 New
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    +43
    The article is a definite plus. The very appearance of such an article suggests that the combat readiness of our torpedoes has questions, including inconvenient ones. Maybe in the fleets of other Navy and also not all is well, but they do not care. It is important what and how exactly we have in the Russian Navy. The author is right in terms of the need for modernization, etc. Stop talking about unimportant analogues. Maybe it's time to take a look and compare what has analogues?
    1. knn54 April 16 2019 09: 05 New
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      +6
      It's just that there are a lot of “hoses” in the General Staff of the Navy (and not only) ...
      1. lukewarm April 16 2019 13: 54 New
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        "Hoses" - to say the least. It’s just that out of a century, selection to headquarters (not just military) is somehow unnatural.
        1. Beregovic_1 April 21 2019 18: 38 New
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          The main criterion is personal loyalty. Arriving at the post of deputy commander in chief, any admiral drags a group of officers.
          1. lukewarm April 23 2019 11: 55 New
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            This is what he meant. "Collateral rubs like soot" ©
      2. NF68 April 16 2019 16: 00 New
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        Quote: knn54
        It's just that there are a lot of “hoses” in the General Staff of the Navy (and not only) ...



        Where are these hoses not?
    2. Mik13 April 16 2019 09: 16 New
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      Quote: Alex2048
      The very appearance of such an article suggests that the combat readiness of our torpedoes has questions, including inconvenient ones.

      The very appearance of such an article suggests that, with universal literacy, the Bolsheviks got a little excited (c).
      I am sure that the first firing under the ice will be largely a failure. And this is an objective fact.
      Here it is worth paying attention that this quote may be a summary of not only this article, but the entire cycle of articles of the Author. Which takes place under the general motto "everything is lost, especially torpedoes."
      An objective fact is not a failed shooting (which either didn’t really take place, or they simply didn’t report to the Author). An objective fact is the author’s confidence that these firing will fail. After all, if everything is not so tragic with torpedoes, what will the author write about her tragic articles about?
      1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 46 New
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        Quote: Mik13
        Which passes under the general motto "everything is lost, especially torpedoes."

        YOU'RE LYING
        see for example my articles on antitrust
        Quote: Mik13
        The objective fact is the author’s confidence that these shooting will surely fail.

        it’s not even so much “confidence” as KNOWLEDGE
        1. vargo April 16 2019 10: 22 New
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          +1
          But you wrote about confidence, and then immediately about some objective fact. Perhaps the word "fact" is generally not appropriate here, but you deliberately used it so that the reader in his head noted this fact.
          And about a series of articles, yes, the trend has gone. First, an article about what is a problem, and then a bunch of links to this article, as it were, seemingly left-handed, but already made a fuss. Yes, it wasn’t particularly noise.
          The feeling that the topic is intentionally inflated. At what not the fact that having a valid basis. So surprisingly the necessary steps coincided in the information field.
          1. Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 29 New
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            Quote: vargo
            Feeling that intentionally inflate the topic.

            ... b
            NO ONE SHOT ON ICE
            + "bouquet" "the rest" belay

            "little things" - cho

            Quote: vargo
            Yes, not really, and it was noise.

            I'll look, I'll see, maybe some scans on the "reaction" and lay out;)

            Quote: vargo
            "fact" is not appropriate here

            Appropriately
            For example, in connection with the death of the developer Ermakova
            https://topwar.ru/156666-antitorpedy-my-poka-vperedi-no-nas-uzhe-obgonjajut.html
            1. Reklastik April 16 2019 18: 31 New
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              Are you not afraid that people from the department of Bortnikov will come to you because of scans?
              1. Fizik M April 16 2019 19: 44 New
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                Quote: Reklastik
                Are you not afraid that people from the department of Bortnikov will come to you because of scans?

                No, this is an official notice sent by mail from the "adjacent square"
        2. Mik13 April 16 2019 10: 29 New
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          Quote: Fizik M
          YOU'RE LYING
          Nothing like this. About your articles about how “everything was lost” with torpedoes, jokes already tell on the Internet. By the way, your article about anti-torpedoes also tells us that "not everything has disappeared, but very soon it will certainly disappear."

          Quote: Fizik M
          it’s not even so much “confidence” as KNOWLEDGE

          The point, you see, is that modern knowledge should be based on appropriate methodology. I mean the methodology of science (we are not talking about religious knowledge). And your phrase
          I am sure that the first firing under the ice will be largely a failure. And this is an objective fact.
          - This is just an ideal example for a textbook on how to not study the surrounding reality. The fact is that your assumption about the outcome of the experiment is not at all a fact. And given the level of your awareness, this assumption cannot even be called a hypothesis. In addition, the phrase "objective fact" is such an oxymoron. A fact is an objective and verifiable observation. Not an assumption.

          Further. In your article, you argue that rumors of torpedo fuel toxicity are greatly exaggerated:
          The fact of the low toxicity of unitary fuel is confirmed by the memories of S. I. Berdichsky in the third volume of the book “Central Research Institute“ Gidropribor ”and its people” with a description of “terry” security breaches for handling unitary fuel. For example, he repeatedly, without being able to even wash himself, walked for several days, drenched in the "working off" of oil and fuel after the maintenance of a torpedo from the sea. However, there were no serious health consequences for S. I. Berdichesky.

          First, such a statement is a classic example of cognitive bias, known as "survivor error."
          Secondly, propylene glycol dinitrate (which you were too shy to mention) is a well-known and long-studied compound. Its toxicity is undeniable and confirmed. In addition, the study of toxic effects is carried out on groups, and not on individual unique ones, which place a naval bolt on safety precautions.
          1. Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 39 New
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            Quote: Mik13
            About your articles about how “everything is lost” with torpedoes, on the Internet already tell jokes.

            apparently YOU very much love (Internet) trash cans
            Quote: Mik13
            And given your level of awareness

            Mousia, YOU before trying to throw a little would read;)
            Quote: Mik13
            known as the "survivor error".

            Did you read the quote of the leading specialists of "Morteplotechniki"?
            or YOU with the vision "electoral problems"?
            Quote: Mik13
            Its toxicity is unquestionable and confirmed.

            no one denies this
            see photos of the same amers to work out the emergency response with torpedoes - suits, breathing apparatus, etc.
            only here and they and we no one the case of "with problems"
            moreover, in OTTO-2, propylene glycol nitrite is not much, but more (in%)
            1. Fizik M April 16 2019 20: 47 New
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              unit fuel fuel tank leakage testing training (US Navy)
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. frolov andrey April 17 2019 22: 55 New
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            +2
            Your arguments are not in order to find the truth, but in order to cast doubt on the author’s argument.
            Even if there is only 1 question from: corruption in the Navy, or "I said, listen to me ...," or in enriching individuals in the defense industry complex, then investigative actions on "enemies of the people" on the fact of irresponsibility should already follow from this , subversion, espionage, or whatever the organs find there.
            But in fact: there should be no such articles, not because it is not comme il faut to take out the garbage from the hut, but because it is allowed to scatter bodies and persons who should ask questions why and who is crap?
            People saw a catch in you. You are an intelligent person, eliminate the deviation and help us if you are a Russian patriot to defeat internal enemies and remove fools from power.
            1. Fizik M April 18 2019 10: 54 New
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              Quote: frolov andrey
              corruption in the Navy, or "I said, listen to me ...," or in enriching individuals in the defense industry complex, then investigative actions should follow from this

              and the question is actually very good
              because there is a thirst for profit, there is tyranny, and the issue of conscious sabotage was also raised by some VIP-persons in a closed format
      2. sgrabik April 16 2019 11: 09 New
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        Well, enough to engage in deceit and fraud, pretending that everything is fine with our torpedoes and they are in no way inferior to the best Western models in the main performance characteristics, so far they are inferior to and very significantly, the best product we have today is the “Physicist”, it you need to take as a basis and develop on its basis a whole series of deeply modernized torpedoes that are not inferior to the best American models.
        1. Fizik M April 16 2019 11: 17 New
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          Quote: sgrabik
          "Physicist", it is necessary to take it as a basis and develop on its basis a whole series of deeply modernized torpedoes,

          with this we are late
          IMHO now the prospects are more for electric, but we have troubles with batteries
          so the “Physics” base is still without options
          but electric also needs to be developed
      3. ty60 April 16 2019 23: 44 New
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        However, the author is right. And the sawing of budget money by admirals is not only objectively present, and old ties move trash for a rollback.
    3. Civil April 16 2019 10: 45 New
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      The reason for this scandalous situation: the defense industry of the USSR, being unable to ensure the supply of silver-magnesium batteries for new torpedoes of submarines of the 3rd generation due to lack of silver

      Well, naturally the USSR is to blame, not the funny stories in "Dagdiesel")
      1. Fizik M April 16 2019 11: 20 New
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        Quote: Civil
        and not funny stories in "Dagdizel")

        and what for "stories"? ;)
        for by the specific number of "sins per occupied area" there they LESS THAN
        and "stolen" (in quotes) there so "stolen" (in quotes) on the NEW TORPEDA (initiative development) - with a uniquely successful test statistics
        1. Civil April 16 2019 11: 54 New
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          Yandex, to help you) all the stories were on)
          1. Fizik M April 16 2019 12: 17 New
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            Quote: Civil
            Yandex, to help you)

            i don't need google
            I know all this very well - for I was practically at the epicenter of events
            and if something is read - the forum is courage - all this was recorded in the “real time”, incl. with "opinions of opponents"
  2. Medvezhya lapa nad Ki April 16 2019 06: 04 New
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    Nightmare! It turns out that our Americans are learning badly quickly. Is it better to fill your pocket? And to think about the fact that due to a stuffed pocket a country might not become? Looks, nothing to think - the stomach comes first.
    1. Vladimir_8 April 16 2019 13: 35 New
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      Yeah, I assumed that everything is so bad, but so much so ...?!

      Interestingly, we have at least not yet forgotten how to make mines?
    2. lukewarm April 16 2019 14: 10 New
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      Duck capitalism. Peripheral, small-town, thieving and merciless.
      Quote: Medvezhya lapa nad Ki
      quickly learn bad things from the Americans.

      This is generally a pattern. In order to at least remain at the level (not to mention some kind of development), something needs to be done, everything else leads to degradation. Which is what we see.
  3. Andrei Nikolaevich April 16 2019 06: 05 New
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    Navy, where are you? What say about the article?
    1. Alexander Romanov April 16 2019 06: 12 New
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      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Navy, where are you? What say about the article?

      There is nothing to say here, the military will not say anything to anyone. And torpedo firing was carried out, even in 90, when there was no money. And now all the more so, but why the whole world should yell about it
      1. Fizik M April 16 2019 06: 17 New
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        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And torpedo firing was carried out, even in 90, when there was no money.

        Did you even understand what it was about?
        First of all about FACILITIES firing
        and secondly, about shooting in general (most of which were objectively hack)
        1. KCA
          KCA April 16 2019 08: 11 New
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          Explain to a layman how the ice launch torpedoes fundamentally differ from conventional underwater ones, without surfacing and receiving external target designation? Under open water and under ice, the acoustic environment, the resistance of the water, and something else are strikingly different?
          1. Fizik M April 16 2019 08: 20 New
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            Quote: KCA
            Under the open water and under the ice, the acoustic environment, the resistance of the water, something else differ dramatically?

            specific hydrology, but the main thing is different:
            the ice is very, very uneven, and in fact, its entire surface is bright, multiple “highlights” for the SSN torpedoes
            1. KCA
              KCA April 16 2019 08: 31 New
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              With the modern level of informatics development, to cut off the chaotic noises of the acoustic signal reflection from the ice edge is a task at the programming contest for middle classes of the middle non-specialized school
              1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 20 New
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                Quote: KCA
                With the modern level of informatics development, to cut off the chaotic noises of the acoustic signal reflection from the ice edge is a task at the programming contest for middle classes of the middle non-specialized school


                No, everything is much more complicated (without details)
                including requires powerful computing resources
                + possibility of TARGET
                1. KCA
                  KCA April 16 2019 09: 28 New
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                  Computing resources are not important, algorithms are important, not a single one, the most modern weapon model, uses i9 with 18 cores, 80286, 80386 and a maximum of 80486DX are enough for the whole armament spectrum, while solving highly specialized tasks of computing power of these 100% debugged and reliable processors another 100 years is enough, and if you take purely specialized processors with a limited set of instructions, 286 will seem like the top of computing resources there
                  1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 45 New
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                    Quote: KCA
                    It is the computing resources that are not important.

                    IMPORTANT
                    PM
                    I don’t intend to develop this topic further
                    1. KCA
                      KCA April 16 2019 09: 48 New
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                      Well, it’s not necessary, you, as it seems to me, in computer science and its application to the tasks of determining the true goal and eliminating false ones, as I have to do with issues of torpedo weapons
                      1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 51 New
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                        Quote: KCA
                        you, as it seems to me, in computer science and its application to problems

                        for that there is RELATED SPECIALISTS
                        very, very competent and with great experience
                      2. KCA
                        KCA April 16 2019 09: 58 New
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                        +5
                        Why are you shouting, I have no doubt that not only stupid people and traitors of the Motherland are sitting in the General Staff of the Navy, but also experts in their field, but I always wanted to ask if you are so smart, why not THERE? The excuses that they do not like smart people are not necessary, they love smart people everywhere and always, but smart ones, not demagogues, well, let's say, like me
                      3. Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 09 New
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                        Quote: KCA
                        why not there?

                        I was there
                        and not ra
                        and not two
                        and phrases "when ships on mines begin to be undermined, then measures will be taken and we will" и "to me ... th on your torpedoes, my Bulava does not fly" were said just TAM - the CHIEFS
                        after article
                        https://vpk.name/news/179655_rasstrel_v_more_i_bazah_noveishie_podvodnyie_lodki__vmf_rossii_vooruzhayut_ustarevshim__oruzhiem_i_sredstvami_samooboronyi.html
                        transmitted about the Queen: He is furious, everyone is "torn" !!!
                        "Wonderful"! AND MEASURES WHERE?!?!?
                2. Alexander Romanov April 16 2019 12: 39 New
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                  Quote: Fizik M
                  I don’t intend to develop this topic further

                  Checkmate! wassat
                  1. Ehanatone April 17 2019 02: 45 New
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                    Who actually check !?
                    The mat is just a mat, endless and unfortunately just a mat
              2. goose April 16 2019 10: 24 New
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                Quote: KCA
                Computing resources are not important, algorithms are important, not a single, super-modern weapon model uses i9 with 18 cores

                A poor algorithm can reduce performance by orders of magnitude, a poor implementation of the algorithm can slow down its execution by several times.
                This is for example, if the game designer in Java starts writing algorithms for the torpedo.
                1. KCA
                  KCA April 16 2019 11: 10 New
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                  Familiar with the writers of the flight mission, enthusiasts backed by a salary are tin, maniacs of their business, between two sips of beer they will discuss about five times how, what and where, without disclosing, if so, about their
              3. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 12: 56 New
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                This level is lower than that of export fighter aircraft in the 90s. The tasks of analyzing the acoustic spectrum are more difficult by tens of orders of magnitude than ANY task that an aircraft complex can solve.
              4. MrFox April 16 2019 18: 04 New
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                Tell me how you will do an algorithm for searching gradients of HD video in real time on 486DX. In the optical seeker is very useful.
            2. Reklastik April 16 2019 19: 54 New
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              And the task is reduced to the selection of a moving target on the background of interference? I'm not special either, read a little
          2. sabotage April 16 2019 18: 05 New
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            Quote: KCA
            With the modern level of informatics development, to cut off the chaotic noises of the acoustic signal reflection from the ice edge is a task at the programming contest for middle classes of the middle non-specialized school

            Write, 2 hours is enough? With me 5 rubles ($ 000 per hour for a student - reasonable money)
      2. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 08: 30 New
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        The acoustic properties of water in the under-ice layers are different, this time, and secondly, on ELT torpedoes, the BDT is a single-action battery, it is activated by water, and this water must have a certain level of salinity, otherwise the torpedo “will not start”.

        Plus the relief - look at the picture with the British submarine in the article - see how the boats are there - and Vanguard and Ash or Pike, for which he watches, pass between the ice?

        In order to fire torpedoes in such conditions, you need telecontrol, with reliable telecontrol, with a hose reel and data transmission over an optical fiber cable, and with the ability to monitor the situation through the torpedo's "head".

        Of all this, we have only the theoretical possibility of shooting the “Physicist”, but there is an entirely antediluvian telecontrol system. And the rest of the torpedoes in such conditions are not applicable.

        Our submarines are unarmed under the ice.
        1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 18 New
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          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Plus the relief - look at the picture with the British submarine in the article - see how the boats are there - and Vanguard and Ash or Pike, for which he watches, pass between the ice?

          Well, the picture "as the artist sees"
          ours, for example, so it is simply forbidden to walk (but according to the angles - there is a specific suspicion that it is possible)
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          And the rest of the torpedoes in such conditions are not applicable. Our submarines are unarmed under the ice.

          not quite like that, but close to reality
          just with the old distance is very small (almost "shoot" in the goal)


          Quote: timokhin-aa
          AML - a battery of a single action, is activated by water, and this water must have a certain level of salinity, otherwise the torpedo "will not start".

          not this way
          with salo and salinity, everything is fine, but temperatures are different - including and those that "cause serious concern" - "will it start" ???
          1. KCA
            KCA April 16 2019 09: 54 New
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            As I understand it, it is not realistic to install the simplest capsule with a reagent or catalyst on a dashboard, well, if the water is +/-, the salinity is not the same, just a small capsule will not save?
            1. Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 02 New
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              Quote: KCA
              As I understand it, the simplest primer with reagent

              not the simplest but suggested
              just a man who started to beat the alarm about this
              but they started beating him
              so what's up there now

              Proposals for conducting such tests simply cause an Istrich reaction in Gidropribor:
              “Well, it’s not for a naeaaado to do such tests !!!!!! In the Barents Sea "warm"

              - this is literally
              Well, yes, there is warm - for the end of the Gulf Stream, but further - belay
          2. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 10: 02 New
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            with salo and salinity, everything is fine, but temperatures are different - including and those that "cause serious concern" - "will it start" ???


            And under the pack ice and in the depths the salinity is the same?

            According to the angles - there is a specific suspicion that it is possible)


            One Amerikos with nuclear submarines claimed that the Russians caught them in the Arctic, hiding under the very ice between icebergs. Like, more than once we came across it, until we learned to find them there in advance.

            The moped is not mine, but I looked at the vidos in English.

            By the way, pay attention to how the Britons make GAK on their submarines. This is clearly to keep to the side of the target. It turns out and the goal on the side and the antenna deployed sideways. Rather, the front-side and forward-sideways.
            Evolved under the task of tracking.
            1. Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 05 New
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              Quote: timokhin-aa
              And under the pack ice and in the depths the salinity is the same?

              "fresh" under the ice, but the layer is very thin
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              how the Britons do GAK on their submarines. This is clearly

              other
              This is a "stealth event" to reduce the secondary hydroacoustic field (target strength)
              1. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 12: 54 New
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                This is a "stealth event" to reduce the secondary hydroacoustic field (target strength)


                To make them harder in act. Regime to target?
                1. Fizik M April 16 2019 13: 09 New
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                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  To make them harder in act. Regime to target?

                  Yes
                  1. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 14: 56 New
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                    SO like Westerners cover absorbs the wave from the gas almost completely. Or not?
                  2. Fizik M April 16 2019 15: 00 New
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                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    SO like Westerners cover absorbs the wave from the gas almost completely. Or not?

                    No, of course, it is physically impossible (except in the fantasy brothers Lexiny laughing )
                    yes, target strength has decreased significantly
                    but the requirements for SSN and GAS are already with these values ​​(i.e., the 70x range is still incorrect to compare today, because they were calculated for significantly different target forces)
                  3. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 15: 16 New
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                    Well, what about the coverage this Leksins gave out in due time ...
                    sad
                  4. Fizik M April 21 2019 13: 28 New
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                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Well, what about the coverage this Leksins gave out in due time ...

                    there is no coverage, but about their supposedly "absolute effectiveness", yes, Lexins "gave out" fool
  • Bull Terrier April 16 2019 08: 33 New
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    All this is correct. Hackwork has always flourished and started back in the USSR. What does it have to do with conventional infantry where the exercises of shooting from conventional small arms were a mockery of combat training. Giving a good result for the report was more important. I don’t remember how and where, but the picture is spinning in my head, as after receiving an assessment, the excellent inspector asked me to do everything in a new but RUN, not a walking step, and the indicators flew down immediately. I understand that the comparison is weak but the picture is basically similar. Well, the usual condition, preserved again from Soviet times, works, and okay, you are right too. In a global sense, real changes will begin after a complete change of generations, no matter how it sounds. I do not believe that people who grew up in the previous system will be able to reformat themselves and begin to think with modern realities.
    1. lukewarm April 16 2019 14: 33 New
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      Quote: Bull Terrier
      In a global sense, real changes will begin after a complete change of generations, no matter how it sounds. I do not believe that people who grew up in the previous system will be able to reformat themselves and begin to think with modern realities.

      Formally, they are right, but essentially - whence comes the assurance that real changes with the change of generations will be for the better. Generations are already changing and changing. And where and how do they strive? Something "really" may change, but in a way that would be better not to change.
      1. Bull Terrier April 16 2019 14: 44 New
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        Not sure. But the people who are growing now are clearly smarter than us and more modern. And they think differently. And it is always useful. Remember the Second World War and its first months. The generals who did not understand that the time of the cavalry had passed. Yes, many examples. Of course I’m not saying that all of them are without exception. But honestly, that Soviet system called the main thing that would not work out should be gone. Now we need to take risks, to prove ourselves. Push forward. I liked the author’s words, although I’m specifically in this topic is zero so that he proves all the time that he considers it right. What does it have to do with the arguments.
    2. Ehanatone April 17 2019 02: 53 New
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      +4
      It seems to me, or is it really so:
      occasionally shooting generals gives dynamics, and significantly saves the budget!
      One catch - who exactly needs to be shot !?
    3. Antokha April 21 2019 21: 16 New
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      You seem to be right. Another generation must come. If only it were not worse than the old. After all, who raised him?
  • Alexander Romanov April 16 2019 12: 37 New
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    Quote: Fizik M

    Did you even understand what it was about?

    I understood that why do you feel that since they do not report firing, it means they are not being carried out.
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 13: 09 New
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      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      why do you think that once they do not report about firing, it means that they are not carried out.

      No problem lol
      believe
      "questions of theology are not discussed in technical forums"
      some won - in god Kuzu believe laughing
      1. Alexander Romanov April 16 2019 13: 23 New
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        Quote: Fizik M

        "questions of theology are not discussed in technical forums"

        It is strange that you wrote an entire article about them. The opponent above you paid for all 100%. , you merged
        I wonder who reports information on past firing to you.
        1. Fizik M April 16 2019 13: 26 New
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          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          The opponent above you did all 100%. you and merged

          YOU wrong address
          You to Aibolit (well, or in the 1 class)
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          who is reporting to you about the past firing.

          rather resorting - with "what do you do ???"
          for example, after the death of Yermakov
          and characteristically, asked in several organizations
        2. Ehanatone April 17 2019 03: 02 New
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          Mr. Romanov would have bothered to burden his claim with facts:
          which opponent
          how did
          what data cited
          and if he did, then how does his data differ from verbiage
          digits, where digits
  • sgrabik April 16 2019 11: 17 New
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    Just firing is not enough, it is necessary to conduct the most thorough, deep and most importantly adequate analysis based on their real results, which would show the true state of our submarine forces and their real ability to counter in the event of a military collision with western submarines.
  • kepmor April 16 2019 16: 16 New
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    oh, and you’re lying, master, Sanya ...
    in the 90s, torpedo firing by surface ships in the SF virtually ceased ...
    fired only 2 DiPLKs (1135 and 1155) or a pair of 956s out of 7 OPESK and then ... once at the ZTU fleet in August, but for the prize of the Navy GK there are 2 ships of 2 SET-65 at best ..
    from 94 to 98 on our team (8 MPK 1124M) there were TOTAL 2 firing at one practical SET-65 ... with the TEST-72 telecontrol, there were no firing at all ...
    however, at the parades on Navy Day, in Polyarny and in Severomorsk, they gave to the MPC, a participant in the parade, one blank for the show ... and this "TA shooting" the PSU department read out as a combat exercise ... and the K-3 task to the ship was closing ...
    the submariners fired more often ... before going out to the battlefield, it was obligatory ... and every year only in August, on the ZTU fleet, and almost all the "live" boats at that time were shot at the OBK, and underwater "dueling" was practiced, as a rule, by a strategist against multi-purpose ..... though the conditions were just "aquarium" ... and they even managed to drown at least one or two ... but still it's "just tears", compared with the 80s of the early 90s ...
  • timokhin-aa April 16 2019 12: 58 New
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    So the author is the fleet. Where are you still?
  • Xscorpion April 17 2019 19: 21 New
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    They are held regularly. I know for sure about 2 exercises with the practical use of torpedoes under ice in the 15th and 18th years. So the article of the all-crawler, he has been ridiculed at forums of the Navy for several years, including for a similar article, and some seriously think that he is a mishandled Cossack, working for Western money, and even made arguments about the dark connections of Comrade Klimov. Anyone who wishes can check this info on any forum of submariners, and not only that.
    1. Antokha April 21 2019 21: 20 New
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      Why check Klimov? Let’s better listen to your arguments. Write an answer article. The same detailed. And everyone knows how to blame, especially with a bunch of one. Come out with an open visor, refute the arguments of the author. I come from the USSR, and all this idiotic insanity with reporting and fear of initiative and to contradict the authorities, which the author describes, were definitely there.
    2. Fizik M 22 May 2019 20: 41 New
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      Quote: Xscorpion
      Conducted regularly. I know for sure about the 2 exercises with the practical use of torpedoes under ice in the 15 and 18 year

      LIE
      Prior to my application to GWP in the fall of 2015. according to "Case" and "Physics", "Physicist" was the last time successfully aimed at a submarine on Gosy - in 2007. for purely TECHNICAL REASONS (which were corrected only after GWP)
      Why in 2015. Could you not use other products yourself figure it out, or "bring" you to an extremely harsh form?
      In addition, there is VERY good reason to believe that in 2018. There was nothing
      Quote: Xscorpion
      It’s not the first year that they’ve been ridiculed in forums of the Navy,

      AT LEAST ONE link to the FACTURE you can bring? what?
      or are you just yapping?
      Quote: Xscorpion
      western money

      yep honduras
      Honduras and Mossssat
  • Simara April 16 2019 06: 21 New
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    Of course, I’m far from a sailor, but it seems to me that if things went to a duel with torpedoes instead of an instant nuclear strike against an enemy on command, then that’s not right .. and here it’s not a torpedo. As far as I remember, the number of submarines has NATO advantages, and at times. That is, in the event of an aggravation of the situation, if a Russian submarine is discovered, then there will be 2 minimum boats in its mouth. And then, as they say, they sailed. And since it is a carrier of ballistic or cruise missiles, it will be drowned in hours with excitement right up to the ram. Accordingly, the only way to accomplish its task in a submarine as part of a nuclear triad is stealth. That is, initially it should be isolated from the enemy and then it will pose a REAL threat to NATO. For it is one thing when a submarine with 50/50 chances conducts a torpedo battle and another when in a minute it launches dozens of mbrs on enemy targets. So at one o'clock the task of the submarine is to quickly and accurately shoot all the ICBMs and quietly gobble up their shore. Don’t think about torpedo battles or reloading BC in the port of Daee, the port at this time will already be a large funnel with sintered glass and metal and with a very strong radiation background. No, I understand that at the time of aggravation of the situation a day before the World War, the enemy will begin to take all the submarines insolent for escort. But if you were taken for escort, it means you are likely a corpse. For torpedoes with nuclear warheads have not been canceled. But in a real situation, no one will think about ecology. Torpedoes are a small thing, but first of all it is necessary to ensure the secret deployment of submarines from the port of the patch to the borders of the opening of fire. Both tth boats and takikv. And the torpedoes ... somehow I read a book about the school of spies. They teach you everything, but how to determine that they are not watching you and are not looking for you. Here is one of the future illegal immigrants and asked why? Yesu answered, if it came to the point that you are being watched then this is the finish. You will not leave and therefore it is useless to learn this ...
  • Fizik M April 16 2019 06: 26 New
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    Quote: Simara
    Accordingly, the only way to accomplish its mission with a submarine as part of a nuclear triad is stealth.

    there are (and very likely) situations where the only possible way reestablish stealth is kill the opponent who took the contact
  • Fizik M April 16 2019 06: 28 New
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    Quote: Simara
    But if you were taken to an escort, then you are most likely a corpse.

    NO
    we have already tested at sea by real goals technical solutions that allow you to win the "duel" from "Virginia" even the ancient "Ryazan" 667BDR project

    + if you are discovered - the best way to restore stealth is to kill the opponent who took the contact
    1. Simara April 16 2019 06: 56 New
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      No one will do this before the declaration of war, and when it is announced it may be too late ... already whose leadership will give the order first and thereby untie the hands ... agree even if the boat is fully operational but does not fire first but not immediately 2 torpedoes then with 2 boats already all 4 then the chance of survival is not enough. And even more so to sink both and go to the line. It’s another matter if the supreme commander gives the order and the same boat will launch a salvo from all the torpedo boats but ... it will work again with 2 boats and that’s all ... so as for me it will introduce technologies that allow the boat to go secretly from the port to bearing area without the possibility of being discovered. If this succeeds, even with a small number of carriers, as now, the Russian Federation will have enough of this to cause unacceptable damage to NATO. And only the invisibility of pl already guarantees its peace apart from other types of weapons.
      1. Fizik M April 16 2019 07: 01 New
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        Quote: Simara
        all 4 then survive is not enough chances

        in the presence of “pyatnashkakh” in the ammunition (anti-replay МХNUMX) on target designation from the “Harp”, even with manual data entry, it’s really possible to overwhelm 15-2, and if you train the personnel well - and all 3
        and this is not unfounded
        at one time coached his own on time + “tag” beats securely
        1. Simara April 16 2019 07: 06 New
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          It’s already pleasing, but agree to carry out a military salvo across Washington, all the same, more pleasant in silence and unaccompanied. And after shooting the whole bk with quiet glanders home ...
          1. Fizik M April 16 2019 07: 17 New
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            Quote: Simara
            Already happy

            will be happy when it is in ammunition
            and normally and reliably mastered by the fleet during combat training and practical shooting
  • Nikolaevich I April 16 2019 06: 50 New
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    Inevitably "41 comes to mind ..."! As in those years, the country was promised ...: "With a little blood, with a mighty blow ..."! I once wondered: Was there a war in which Russia entered a well-trained, well-trained, well-equipped, “to the teeth” armed, smart, well-versed in military affairs, ready for a modern war by generals? I could not answer this question !!! People! Does anyone understand the tragedy of the military history of Russia, in which the country suffered considerable, and often useless human losses (that is, losses that could not have been ...)!? There are studies of some historians who argue that if it were not for this tragedy (and to a lesser extent ...), the cause of which was often the "dubolomstvo" of the ruling "class," then Russia would dominate the planet and territories, and production, and population ! ... And the population of China and India "would have looked from the bottom to the top"!
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 06: 56 New
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      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Inevitably "41 comes to mind ..."!

      Now the situation is much worse
      in 39-41, all the chiefs understood that things were going to war, and ISTOVO prepared
      and at present otmirils "full bolt" and "maybe there will be no war"
      1. ZamkomATV April 16 2019 07: 15 New
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        So what, when to the front?
        1. Fizik M April 16 2019 08: 22 New
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          Quote: ZamkomATV
          So what, when to the front?

          if you have not noticed, then the war is already underway
          and no longer "cold"
          let's say, "warm"
          but if we are not ready for the challenges - all this has every chance of becoming "hot"
      2. frolov andrey April 17 2019 23: 22 New
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        God save you raising questions in the right way.
        Even if there is only 1 question from: corruption in the Navy, or "I said, listen to me ...," or in enriching individuals in the defense industry complex, then investigative actions on "enemies of the people" on the fact of irresponsibility should already follow from this , subversion, espionage, or whatever the organs find there.
        But in fact: there should be no such articles, not because it is not comme il faut to take out the garbage from the hut, but because it is allowed to scatter bodies and persons who should ask questions why and who is crap?
        What arguments make security work? How to defeat internal enemies and remove fools from power?

        Reply
    2. Simara April 16 2019 07: 03 New
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      I once thought: Was there a war that Russia entered well

      Well, I won’t say anything about a full-fledged war, but they entered Georgia, they squeezed Crimea out and in Syria with small forces and while fighting in a foreign land ... it’s better than the first and second Chechen
      1. Fizik M April 16 2019 07: 14 New
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        Quote: Simara
        Syria small forces yes in a foreign land

        This is VKS, SSO and land carriers
        the fleet is - there is a WAR, the ONLY relatively modern PMK (MTSHCH "Zakharyin") is NOT IN STRUCTURE (the main complex) - YEAR !!! (It was commissioned more than a year after the start of Syria, and almost 2 years after 404).
        Commanders (Teals and Korolev)? - I know. But they do not care
        Head of Marine Underwater Weapons Service - PFIG
        The phrase "when the ships on mines begin to be undermined, then we will take measures and we will" - his
      2. Nikolaevich I April 16 2019 08: 50 New
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        Quote: Simara
        but Georgia entered,

        Mil Cholovik! Yes, you have recently awakened from "hibernation" that you do not know how many problems in training, in the armament of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation revealed a "little Georgian" war? belay They say that it was “in Georgia” that the “roasted rooster” pecked so much that, even to “top-class blockheads” in Moscow, it finally reached (!): “What is it, you cannot live in the sun!” fool
        Quote: Simara
        Crimea pressed

        And what ? In the Crimea, battles were fought ... and our torpedoes turned out to be "super"?
    3. New Year day April 16 2019 08: 08 New
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      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Does anyone understand the tragedy of the military history of Russia, in which the country suffered considerable, and often in vain human losses (that is, losses that might not have happened ...)!?

      do you address a question to him? I think it’s come to, but it’s difficult to fix, and maybe it’s impossible because of the presence on all floors of power of lizoblyudovany, opportunists, careerists and swindlers. They are not capable of anything else. Because we have what we have.
      1. Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 22 New
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        Quote: Silvestr
        maybe not

        I think NOW WILL BE CORRECTED
        "too much" "exploded";)
    4. Wilderness April 16 2019 09: 00 New
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      Nobody attacks a country with a trained, equipped, trained, and armed army, with sensible generals. Attack the weak (or seemingly weak). A successful war requires superiority - numerical, technical, moral, etc. It is not for nothing that a well-known proverb makes the desire for peace dependent on preparation for war.
    5. meandr51 April 16 2019 12: 54 New
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      That is precisely why there were no wars when Russia entered completely ready, that there are no fools to attack a country ready for battle! As soon as inaccessibility goes beyond a certain line, an attack will immediately follow. The West does not allow this.
      1. arkadiyssk April 17 2019 09: 38 New
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        What kind of fantasies? Type they sleep and see how to wait until weaken to attack. What did they not attack in the 90s, when everything was completely ruined and rusted at the walls?
        1. Nehist April 17 2019 15: 28 New
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          So at 90 it was still alive, but it got up at a joke near the walls, they didn’t have time to cut it and even a trained l / s was available ... Now there is no trained l / s and what got on a joke at 90 is now dead for the most part how they stole everything that is possible
    6. Ehanatone April 17 2019 03: 10 New
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      With the number now it’s not that bad, but just a complete F ...
      Well, otherwise everything was just like that - that's why heroism is demanded in our country, not normal education
    7. Antokha April 21 2019 21: 23 New
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      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Does anyone understand the tragedy of the military history of Russia

      They understand, but there is no prophet in their own country. And each of these needs to fulfill the "combat mission" in its place, no matter what.
  • Yuri Guliy April 16 2019 07: 17 New
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    Well, damn, our ultramodern secrets were told to the adversaries from the State Department again. Truly a talker find for a spy.
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 07: 26 New
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      Quote: Yuri Guliy
      Well, damn, our ultramodern secrets were told to the adversaries from the State Department again. Truly a talker find for a spy.


      1. The article was rigidly filtered - what to write and what not to write (and why)
      2. The situation for the enemy is clear better than our CDF, since he has an effective intelligence system. Especially in this part. It comes to the fact that their submarines are deliberately substituted for our torpedo shots - to remove the characteristics and logic of the torpedo (CCH) when you hover.
      And these are not isolated cases, but massive ones.
      1. asv363 April 16 2019 14: 46 New
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        Quote: Fizik M
        It comes to the point that their submarines are deliberately substituted for our torpedo shots - to remove the characteristics and logic of the torpedo (SSN) during guidance.
        And these are not isolated cases, but massive ones.

        Get in the place of discs fighting do not fear?
    2. Avior April 16 2019 09: 10 New
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      I think if there was something to cling to on this part, then the author would have long had problems.
      he clearly has plenty of enemies
      1. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 10: 04 New
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        The author of the prison repeatedly tried to shut his mouth, he was trained in these matters)))
    3. meandr51 April 16 2019 12: 56 New
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      It began with publications about the unavailability of our torpedoes in the American press. Thank you gentlemen! What would we do without you!
  • Andrey VOV April 16 2019 07: 20 New
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    It is painfully focused and academic article, mainly for specialists, is it worth it to be posted here, where the majority of readers are far from this? Yes, the problem is clear and the ways to solve it, in my opinion, are not on the site, but in the offices of my headquarters fleet and kb
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 07: 29 New
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      Quote: Andrey VOV
      Yes, the problem is clear and the way to solve it, in my opinion, is not on the site, but in the offices of the Mo and the headquarters of the fleet and in KB

      where you said the concrete bolt was "crammed"
      "Ripped" only after publicity in the media and the release of this information "strongly upward."
      And the reaction was: Is this really?!?!?!
      1. Andrey VOV April 16 2019 08: 57 New
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        YES I didn’t say anything about the bolt
      2. goose April 16 2019 10: 30 New
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        Quote: Fizik M
        Is this really?!?!?!

        In the country of the victorious humanitarian with total populism at all levels, a struggle is being waged against the techies for annihilation. Until the state-building paradigm changes ("somehow everything will be built, even if it is actively interfering"), they will not hear you.
    2. frolov andrey April 17 2019 23: 32 New
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      And if on the right path is a club, a corruptionist, a traitor or just, then the only way around. From Aibolit: ".... real heroes always go around ...")))).
      But seriously: if a person sees “fire” in their field, then let them ring all the bells, if anyone does not hear the words.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Antokha April 21 2019 21: 26 New
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      Quote: Andrey VOV
      It is a painstakingly focused and academic article, mainly for specialists, is it worth it to be posted here, where the majority of readers are far from this?

      Of course. worth it! These are the materials that are worth it. And not hastily scribbled notes, where the cases and gender of the words do not converge.
  • Quote: Medvezhya lapa nad Ki
    Unread


    Learn who is learning corruption from anyone https://nonews.co/directory/lists/countries/corruption
  • Newven April 16 2019 07: 39 New
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    Interesting and sad! I don’t know how bad everything is, but the decisive factor is how ready and interested the leaders of the relevant sectors in the military-industrial complex and the headquarters of the Navy are in real appreciation of the criticism from below. The problem itself should be considered at a higher level, from Deputy Prime Minister Borisov to the Commander-in-Chief.
    I don’t feel like dying as “martyrs” because of the fraud of individuals.
  • rocket757 April 16 2019 07: 39 New
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    Builds and launches missile carriers it makes sense when they are able to go on a position and produce a volley.
    If the author is NOT RIGHT, then we have an ACE up our sleeve!
    And if the author is right!?!?!?
    The enemy has an ADVANTAGE in anti-submarine weapons, IT IS A FACT! They always paid a lot of money and attention to this aspect.
    As long as there is time, while our vigorous arguments keep the adversary from fatal actions, WE NEED TO WORK, this is understandable.
  • jonht April 16 2019 08: 23 New
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    Nothing in the Russian fleet has changed since the time of Peter the Great .....
    Until the “Tsar” gives a pendal and the “boyars” pull back the beards, nothing is done.
    Apparently, it is necessary more often to raise such issues for general discussion ....
    1. AAK
      AAK April 16 2019 09: 00 New
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      To drag by the beards, colleague, it’s already a little late, I am afraid that the dilemma will soon become an urgent one - for chopping block or for count ...
      1. jonht April 16 2019 09: 06 New
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        This, too, under Peter was like a hello, but it also didn’t always help .... It’s good when you yourself and for your conscience .... Dreams ....
    2. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 10: 05 New
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      Not from Peter. From Nikolaev (Nicholas 1).
      1. Alexey RA April 16 2019 20: 01 New
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        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Not from Peter. From Nikolaev (Nicholas 1).

        But not before? At the beginning of the reign of Catherine II, there were demonstration exercises of the Baltic Fleet - when it suddenly turned out that the linear fleet could not even line up for battle.
        1. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 21: 27 New
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          Well, until the end of the first third of the 19 century, the fleet did fight and there was a sense from it. After that, the sense was either from peacetime operations (failures in military operations) or as in the Second World War, "at any price and no matter what."
    3. goose April 16 2019 10: 33 New
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      Quote: jonht
      Until the “Tsar” gives a pendal and the “boyars” pull back the beards, nothing is done.

      Or maybe we made a mistake by returning the royal imperial society and feudalism in 1991?
      Maybe no boyars are needed? For me, the Menshikovs and hungry nobles with burning eyes look preferable, even if they steal a little. But they learn science, learn from experience, develop production — otherwise there is no way to survive — and the complete absence of expenses for luxury goods.
  • Wilderness April 16 2019 08: 51 New
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    Now it’s clear why in the 30s the country's leadership, foreseeing a great war, put some “commanders” to the wall. And she collected individual designers into isolated collectives, where nothing interfered with their creative work. As a result, the army received an inexpensive and effective weapon.
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 14 New
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      Quote: Wilderness
      Now it is clear why in the 30-s the leadership of the country, anticipating a big war, put some "commanders" to the wall

      sounds rough but sure
      acquaintance (I searched for it in the archives for a long time)
      repression so much "rushed" in the Navy after 37g. (Spain), the ITT "discovered for itself a lot of new" on the real "combat effectiveness" of the Red Army Navy ...
    2. Avior April 16 2019 09: 44 New
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      the problem is that they did it according to the classical principle; they sorted it out properly and punished anyone.
      They dispersed the Jet Institute because it was the brainchild of Tukhachevsky, and the creators of Katyusha were shot or put just at the moment when they were taken into service.
      Well, not everyone was shot by a miracle; there was someone to work after the war.
      But the development of the MLRS was slowed down, the initiatives were killed, the institute was finally closed, and after the war English engines had to win billiards, German rockets were prepared for space, and even MLRS were created using English and German models, where we had priority before the war.
      1. Fizik M April 16 2019 11: 14 New
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        Quote: Avior
        the problem is that they did it according to the classical principle; they sorted it out properly and punished anyone.

        Yes you are right ...
      2. meandr51 April 16 2019 13: 07 New
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        My mother has been working in this RNII since she was 37 years old. She said different. The mess was there. He was eliminated. MLRS flew. The Queen and Glushko were transferred to the Special Design Bureau. The Germans were ahead, weapons were given in large numbers. The Germans at the wrong time invested in BR and turbojet engines - and lost. Ours on time - and they were the first to launch the satellite and put the ICBMs on duty.
        And do not pile the turbojet engine, liquid propellant rocket engine and so on, just to make a throw. Each has its own story and is not a failure at all.
        1. Avior April 16 2019 13: 21 New
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          The Queen was not shot only by accident, but Kleimenov and Langemak were shot.
          Just at that time, as they developed Katyusha adopted. And after that, the institute was stalled, they could not even reach the tube guides and rotating shells of the MLRS, unlike the Germans and Americans, they remained on the rail, and there were no more volunteers to take the initiative, and after the war the MLRS had to be made according to German and American models.
          Like jet engines and much more, including the very BR.
          1. Alexey RA April 16 2019 20: 05 New
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            Quote: Avior
            to the tubular guides and rotating shells MLRS did not reach

            We still had rotating PCs - with the letters CC (improved accuracy) in the designation. And there were spiral guides.
            1. Avior April 16 2019 23: 25 New
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              Were at the end of the war. There were also M-13DD. both that and another - ersatz decisions in haste.
              And this was not the Jet Institute.
              Both of them created problems when starting from rail guides, so they began to develop spiral ones, but then the war ended. All this was a dead end branch.
              At that time, the Americans had a much more advanced Kaliope launcher with tubular guides. Here, in such a pattern, then the Grad was made.
              But in 1939 we were much ahead of the Americans.
              but after the dispersal of the Jet Institute there nobody wanted to take the initiative, and it was simply closed in 1944 for uselessness.
  • Avior April 16 2019 09: 08 New
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    I’m what I think, if there is such Klimov also on the problems of the surface fleet, according to the Air Force, what else do we find sobering about the state of affairs and problems in the relevant areas?
    Despite the fact that he does not give anything secret by definition.
    And at the same time, nothing like this could ever be seen from publications on VO and other resources, and the vast majority did not even suspect the existence of such problems.
    Nobody thinks that there are problems only in torpedoes, but everything else is perfect?
    It seems that for other areas there simply has not yet been found Klimov, to tell the truth about the state of affairs.
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 12 New
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      Quote: Avior
      and on the problems of the surface fleet

      see my articles in IEE and VPK.name
      + at the end of the week will be here
      the first is “Our frigates. Problems and achievements” - but it will be more likely positive;)
      1. Avior April 16 2019 09: 23 New
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        I mean those who work narrowly or serve in their respective fields.
        for example, the problems with Polement-Redoubt passed here only in the most general words, as well as their solution.
        Similarly on aviation issues and more.
        Maybe, of course, there are no problems at all, but the vast majority, until very recently, were sure that the torpedoes were in full order.
      2. Alexander Galaktionov April 16 2019 09: 33 New
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        "Our frigates. Problems and achievements" - but it will be more likely positive;) If the number of frigates is small, then the question is about frigates pr 22350, is it worth adding RBU-6000 and the second question is 16 cells, will Caliber and Onyx missiles fit into these installation?
        1. Avior April 16 2019 09: 50 New
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          And how much really effective RBU?
          1. Fizik M April 16 2019 19: 35 New
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            Quote: Avior
            And how much really effective RBU?

            I repeat
            flight time, for example RSL-12 at minimum range (400) - 3
            this is just an air section
            torpedo mkXnumx during this time will pass 48m
            + coordinate errors and calculation of firing data
            what is called "now try to get there"
      3. Alexander Galaktionov April 16 2019 09: 37 New
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        Maxim how effective Boeing P-8 Poseidon aircraft to detect submarines, if such infa?
        1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 43 New
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          Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
          Maxim how effective Boeing P-8 Poseidon aircraft to detect submarines, if such infa?

          VERY effective
          what appeared on Orion at the end of 80x and the beginning of 90x was actually a revolution in PLO (the level of 43 in the Atlantic)
          1. Alexander Galaktionov April 16 2019 09: 49 New
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            Then our question can make a similar plane for the Navy Air Force? And about efficiency, how does he detect them? doesn’t let in - does he constantly have hydroacoustic buoys?
            1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 58 New
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              Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
              Then our question can make a similar plane for the Navy Air Force?

              technically is not a question
              a lot of real experiments with ancient buoys but with modern processing and logic of its construction carried out, with excellent results
              BUT - there are "fat cats" - "Barrier" and "Radar MMS"
              1. Alexander Galaktionov April 16 2019 10: 10 New
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                shelter about this company?
                1. Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 11 New
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                  Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
                  this company?

                  Yes, but formally headline on the subject of "Radar" ...

                  yes one hell - "two boots - a pair" negative
                  1. Alexander Galaktionov April 16 2019 10: 15 New
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                    So this MF RLC for corvettes is not so hot?
                    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 19 New
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                      Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
                      So this MF RLC for corvettes is not so hot?

                      my position on it is expressed in an article on 20386
                      but there is at least some specialists on the subject (there is the same on aviation, but under the “press”)
                      but on the software at the "Barrier" just dark
              2. Alexey RA April 16 2019 20: 08 New
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                Quote: Fizik M
                technically is not a question

                There is still at least one question - on what base do the PLO aircraft do. Which passenger car to take?
                Where can I find a domestic passenger plane with a long flight range and a decent carrying capacity, with a minimum of components that are not available for conversion into a PLO plane?
                1. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 21: 15 New
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                  For DMZ - Tu-214. For BMZ - IL-114 or new IL-112 transporter.
                  The problem is not in the "board." The aiming complex is needed on modern principles and suitable radar (not one)
                2. Fizik M April 17 2019 11: 35 New
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                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  on what base do the PLO plane. Which passenger car to take?

                  the question is good, but there are options here
            2. timokhin-aa April 16 2019 10: 11 New
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              He works first on a tip from space reconnaissance or ocean FOSS (or both).

              And then - radar and heat search. There is a little here.
              https://topwar.ru/149232-flot-bez-korablej-vmf-rossii-na-grani-kollapsa.html
              And here.
              https://topwar.ru/149931-im-ne-sprjatatsja.html

              After writing the articles, the participants of the events indicated a flaw in the inaccuracies, but the principles do not change.

              We are aware of this effect and successfully tried to do the same, but then everything turned sour, a revolution just like the Americans did not, although technically it is possible for the Russian Federation.

              But there are problems of the same nature as with torpedoes.
  • lucul April 16 2019 09: 14 New
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    Hmm ...
    Reminds a situation before Tsushima.
    Then, too, no one tested the armor-piercing 305mm shells of armadillos for effectiveness, that is, there were no firing at target ships at the level of the armadillo and their subsequent study. This was done only AFTER Tsushima. What it ended up in the end, everyone knows. An analogy is visible and is there any “lobbying” of enemy interests?
    Indeed, to disable a steam train it is not necessary to blow up the steam train itself - just pour sand into the axle boxes .....
  • Nyrobsky April 16 2019 09: 19 New
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    Thanks for the article Comrade Klimov. There really is something to think about and work to do, and it is desirable in a short time, as our “partners” are growing in interest in the Arctic and it cannot be ruled out that in the medium term it will be hard to shy away from its resources. We do not need a second Kursk. I apologize for the "clown", was wrong. hi
  • Mikhail3 April 16 2019 09: 23 New
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    But it would be worth the author of the article to touch patriotism ... When working for federal programs, one thing surprised me at first. Design quality. The more complex the system to be built, the worse the project. And the outcome of work on the project could only be an alternative - either we build on it and the system does not even start, I’m not saying that it is operational, it’s generally unrealistic, in principle, either from 60 to 80 percent of the design needs to be redone.
    Often there are objects on which it is not necessary to work. Mounted and everything ... But if you still need to show something, then they simply press on you to do everything for free. Do not want? We change the contractor. Well, with your mind and your qualifications you overcome. Naturally, they won’t give you how to do it, but something will work - it’s already a great success!
    Why not give? You see, at the facility there is always a list of equipment and materials that you must use, do you need them or not. As a rule, all this is terrible junk that does not plow at all, does not hold, does not shelter and does not waterproof. Often does not even turn on. Well what to do? You use it, trying to get around somehow, and bring the system to at least some kind of performance.
    And then another thing surprised me. The price of these "projects" just shocked me! Which are made by unskilled boys and girls by copy-paste from the network! Believe me, the prices are just monstrous ... In general, the defense industry does not have the same contractor to whom the actual design can be shoved. That is, he could have been found, perhaps, but the access system to these objects is such that no honest employee can handle it. You can only steal as much money as you need to get into it. Yes, and you must be born correctly.
    In general, they revealed money for R&D. Those who disclosed must have fled. And torpedoes, aiming systems, fuses ... Hehe ...

    However, the MO has another problem. These “projects” go through a multi-stage approval system. There is a bunch of people who also want a piece, and each of these people owns a SIGNATURE, our main value in the country! And the approved project is all covered with these very signatures, not fit. That's all - do what you want. And it’s good if it just doesn’t work!
    And then, after all, the mass of our weapons depots and warehouses of other military reserves are equipped with perimeter video cameras with memory and their own Wi-Fi !! That allows our "friends" to monitor the situation in these warehouses in real time, getting the picture and sound directly to the monitors in Langley. It’s approved that you won’t dig ... I did not participate in the installation, but I saw the tender project. That’s the story, the little ones ...
  • Alexander Galaktionov April 16 2019 09: 26 New
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    MGPD-VIST 2 interestingly our submariners conducted tests?
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 40 New
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      Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
      MGPD-VIST 2 interestingly our submariners conducted tests?

      yes, when was OCD - successfully
      further - "all questions to" Aquamarine " lol
      one fig its effectiveness against the Mk48mod7 is extremely small
      For ten years, on March 2009, the author of this article found on the website of public procurement, data on the delivery of new anti-torpedo protection devices "Vist-2" to the Pacific Fleet:
      NOTICE No. 253 / 10 / 9 ... for the supply of the product "Vist-2" for the needs of the Ministry of Defense ... in 2008 year. The subject of the state contract Product "Vist-2" TBKE.365.161.009 TU - 20 pcs.
      Place of delivery of products:
      • 5 pcs. - Primorsky Krai, Partizansk;
      • 15 pcs. - Murmansk region, p.Roslyakovo.
      The initial (maximum) contract price (lot price) 15000,0 thousand rubles.
      Terms (periods) of delivery: The term of shipment is no later than November 25 2008 of the year

      Arrived with a report to the commander of 16 squadron PL Pacific Fleet Rear Admiral Evmenov. Suggestions were:
      get 5 already set in Partizansk "Vista", examine, shoot one of them when performing practical torpedo firing, according to the results - take in ammunition (primarily for duty RPLSN and combat forces). Further, to request the delivery of additional "Vista" for all submarines of the squadron.
      At the time of 2009. devices (SGPD) "Vist-2" had a certain efficiency, because The mass torpedo of the United States Navy at that time was the Mk48mod.6 (deliveries of the new Mk48mod.7, which practically “nullified” the effectiveness of previous countermeasures, were just beginning).
      For RPLSN combat service, the use of "Vista" in the event of a sudden torpedo attack, could give an opportunity, if not survive, then at least have time to report back to the shore (which is already information and a possibility of strategic importance).
      Moreover, the practice of US Navy SSNs consists not only in maintaining constant intelligence of the waters adjacent to the Navy bases, and tracking our SPs, but also deliberately “setting it up” for our torpedo shots (to gather intelligence on our torpedo weapons), and even imitating firing torpedoes at our submarines (such cases in the 16 submarine squadron in 2000x were ...)
      The literal answer (and the end of the conversation) of Rear Admiral Evmenov was:
      - I am not interested ...

      https://topwar.ru/156337-kuda-bezhit-admiral-evmenov.html
      1. Alexander Galaktionov April 16 2019 09: 53 New
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        Then you need to update) VIST-3, 4
        1. Fizik M April 16 2019 09: 57 New
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          Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
          Then you need to update) VIST-3, 4

          there in principle the ideology of the construction is wrong
          and what you need to do can only be done by Aquamarine
          in the "Region" they tried - there are no problems with equipment, but organizationally "categorically objected" by a member of the board of directors of Aquamarine and the Chief Designer of the Region of Drobot
  • Alexander Galaktionov April 16 2019 09: 27 New
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    Here is the form of the first Virginia nuclear submarine series [media = http: // https: //www.youtube.com/watch? Time_continue = 6 & v = 0zOt1TDRLH4]
  • Fizik M April 16 2019 10: 21 New
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    Quote: Mik13
    In the end, if everything is not so tragic with torpedoes, what about then will the Author write his tragic articles?

    this is possible - with FORGES and STITCHES - or with the technique or the tests themselves

    in general, tests should be carried out in mind so that it would "reach the edge" (of when it "stops working")
  • rotmistr60 April 16 2019 11: 35 New
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    It turns out that the author began "going through the throes" back in Nezavisimaya Gazeta, the orientation of which is well known. I also read the answer to this article by the writer and naval officer Dmitry Ledovsky where the articles of the author Klimov appear on the shelves for what and why
    And here it seems that the fabrications of the “military expert” serve two purposes. The first is draw attention to your personality in any wayand the second is to intimidate Russian citizens, presenting the most powerful Northern Fleet of Russia to date as incapable.
    And more
    Klimov did not say a word that the Physicist-2 / Case torpedoes, whose tactical and technical data noticeably surpass the already obsolete Physicist-1 torpedoes, have already been adopted by the Russian fleet.

    A few years ago there was already a similar author on the site, who considered himself the ultimate truth and the only fighter for the truth, was very offended by the former commanders (commanders) ...
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 11: 42 New
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      Quote: rotmistr60
      The author began a “martyrdom” in the “Nezavisimaya Gazeta”, the focus of which is well known.

      and what is wrong with the “orientation” of the “Nezavisimaya Gazeta”? This is one of the most respectful and worthy publications - in contrast to the information washing machine Ledovsky (REN-TV)
      And according to Ledovsky himself there will be a legal continuation
      for LIARS need to "nail" for their long deceitful language
      For reference - no torpedoes "Physicist-2" DOES NOT EXIST. It's fake
      Quote: rotmistr60
      was very offended by former commanders (chiefs) ...

      yes please
      I have, in most cases, with the chiefs, everything was OK;)
      so this morning one of them "made" a remark - that "it was necessary to specify also PRICES"

      according to Ledovsky looked like a man not ... to
      wrote him a soap - look at the reaction
      on the basis of this - the decision on the "legal"
      1. rotmistr60 April 16 2019 11: 52 New
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        As reported by the Izvestia newspaper, the Russian Navy adopted the new Physic-2 torpedo
        It seems to be also a respected media, or is NG more respected for you?
        Liars need to beat for their long lying tongue
        Are you not afraid that in the end you yourself will be "nailed"? I looked at your comments - often a rude reaction on your part to criticism addressed to you. Not good.
        1. Fizik M April 16 2019 12: 04 New
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          Quote: rotmistr60
          It seems also respected media

          News is an information washer
          for reference:
          https://www.vif2ne.org/nvk/forum/0/archive/2860/2860345.htm
          https://www.vif2ne.org/nvk/forum/0/archive/2860/2860346.htm
          https://www.vif2ne.org/nvk/forum/0/archive/2860/2860352.htm
          and again - "Physicist-2" - Fake
          Quote: rotmistr60
          Are not you afraid that in the end you will find yourself "nailed"?

          NO
          unlike some I'm not lying
          Quote: rotmistr60
          often a rude reaction from your side to criticism

          I have an appropriate. The reaction is not to "criticism" but to NABROS
          for by education and fostering i warrior ;)
          and according to Ledovsky - a copy of my letter:
          Today in 11: 57
          1 recipient: [email protected]
          Dmitry Aleksandrovich!
          The site http://ren.tv/blog/408673 published slanderous and deceitful material for your signature.
          Understand the topic. You were deceived (for example, no "Physics-2" exists and it, of course, was not accepted for armament).
          There is everything in the network. There will be questions - I will answer (within acceptable limits).
          You acted very unworthily, and if you really, as it seems to me, are a good person, and you did it not from the “order” but as delusions, you will remove your material and apologize.
          Sincerely, Klimov Maxim Alexandrovich
          "continuation of the discussion" - https://topwar.ru/156811-arkticheskij-torpednyj-skandal.html
  • Winnie76 April 16 2019 12: 07 New
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    Throw crazy billions into nuclear submarines and have torpedo weapons at the level of the 70s. There are no words except obscene
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Bukhtyar B.-B. April 16 2019 16: 09 New
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        I’m not a sailor and not a military man, but based on what you have stated, it has become interesting - why are you writing all this? Indeed, from your own calculations it directly follows that the topic with torpedoes (and other things different) for the Russian submarine Navy is hopelessly dead. Management is happy with everything. It is in their interest.

        The only noticeable result from your articles, which is really noticeable, is the escalation of hype by different Lenta.ru there, in favor of their personal rating. Or is this entertainment?

        Who are you calling to and for what reason? To ch. to the Ribbon editor for his agitation in his interest? And so - the chatter is empty, with what to do (according to your calculations, I can’t) do almost nothing, just send your head in ashes (well, not for you of course, you're white and fluffy).
        1. Fizik M April 17 2019 11: 32 New
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          Quote: Bukhtyar B.-B.
          hopelessly dead

          this is not true
          the same "Physicist" was almost buried, the documentation was already prepared to be handed over to the archive
          EVERYONE DOES PEOPLE

          Quote: Bukhtyar B.-B.
          The only noticeable result from your articles, which is really noticeable, is the escalation of hype by different Lenta.ru there, in favor of their personal rating. Or is this entertainment?


          shortly - You're wrong
        2. frolov andrey April 17 2019 23: 53 New
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          Beats the bells! Once words are not heard, faces:
          1. Who should hear by duty.
          2. Who should "listen" to those who should hear.
  • Tektor April 16 2019 12: 09 New
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    Yeah ... The question has long overripe. For the supply of torpedoes to China at the beginning of the zero, cable reels were developed that fully corresponded to their western counterparts in terms of performance. But for some reason, they didn’t use them on our torpedoes ... Shame! Well, the rest of the author of the article is fully support. It is necessary to upgrade Physic-1 with a cable reel (and not fiber!), Although according to the plans of 2015, in 2018 there should already be Physic-2, which, as I thought, became known as the Case.
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 12: 13 New
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      Quote: Tektor
      be a physicist-xnumx,

      he otherwise was called;)
      Physicist-2 was only in presentations 2000x
  • Fizik M April 16 2019 12: 41 New
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    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Checkmate

    no
    regime requirements
  • Gust April 16 2019 12: 44 New
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    Maxim, what about Dagdiesel? Does the plant work, or did the "effective managers" get there? And will they release the case?
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 13: 06 New
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      Quote: Rafale
      and how are things on Dagdiesel?

      not easy like everywhere
      but things are moving
      Quote: Rafale
      And they will release the case?

      Who will give them this "golden log"?
  • Undecim April 16 2019 15: 15 New
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    I pay tribute not only to the awareness of the author, but also to his, let us say, citizenship.
    The writing of such articles is very similar to attempts to take away sugar bone from an Asian shepherd.
    An Asian shepherd refers to crowds of uryapotriotic hamsters steadily expanding their habitat on the site, and sugar bones - the favorite food of these hamsters in the form of a feed mixture under the name "peace tax and will not be" and "all the world will not die."
    These very hamsters with site-based field marshal epaulettes will now fight in paroxysms that they have deprived of their favorite food.
    I hope this does not stop the author.
  • Victor Winner April 16 2019 16: 32 New
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    Maxim Klimov, one of the few authors of honest critical articles, the purpose of which is to force our hlobkorobov in admiral's epaulets to do their business according to timetables. And such as Dmitry Ledovsky do not have the right to okhayivanie, these are "slimes." I performed more than 30 combat exercises and fired 178 torpedoes and mines. I know how I carried them out and carried out by other commanders, especially anti-submarine ones. He proposed at the Expert Council of the Navy his own project for a bistatic system for targeting torpedoes. But none of the 38 experts understood anything, but unsubscribed: "profile enterprises are engaged in this" or "have already been implemented and are used by the Navy." But this is an outright lie. We in Russia have had, are and will be so! The new frontier cannot make its way through the veil of general theft and corruption. I agree with Klimov on everything. How long does he live, this is a question that I personally care about (went through this).
  • Yegorchik April 16 2019 16: 36 New
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    Now it’s at least understandable why Putin and his kagal allocate money for the construction of submarines, despite the fact that everything else is carefully destroyed, with the USET-80K torpedo as the main one, they are simply unarmed against the Americans.
  • Lötnab85 April 16 2019 17: 07 New
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    I realized one thing, that this topic must be digged very deeply to the relevant authorities.
  • Old bun April 16 2019 17: 20 New
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    Maxim bow to you for the questions raised. it’s good that there is someone to fight and wave .without which the man will not cross himself.
    Thank you!
  • Dzafdet April 16 2019 17: 34 New
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    The same ass with hydroacoustics. There are advanced systems, but they are crushed to please the monopolists from Morphizpribor. It’s good time to plant them all in rows and columns together with sailors .. In short, 1941 will again be and they will have us in the tail and in the mane ..
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 19: 33 New
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      Quote: Dzafdet
      Same ass and hydroacoustics

      the situation is much better there
      in general, you will need to collect your thoughts and somehow write about it ...
  • Corn April 16 2019 18: 20 New
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    Even I, a person far from the fleet, remember how I read articles of similar content even at the dawn of the Internet, i.e. even then, such a state of affairs was the norm and was not particularly hidden from anyone. So where does the "burning" of the author come from?
    However, nothing fundamentally new, exactly the same situation in other branches of the army, and this is normal. Break through.
    1. MrFox April 17 2019 12: 53 New
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      Beginning with the dawn of the Internet?
      1. Corn April 17 2019 14: 05 New
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        Yes, and with success!
        Since then, they defeated the Georgian aggressor, returned Crimea, clicked on the nose of the Americans in Syria, so much so that the whole "united" west goes under itself from fear.
        From time immemorial Russian land on Avos kept.
  • Fizik M April 16 2019 19: 38 New
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    Quote: asv363
    Get in the place of discs fighting do not fear?

    no
    I repeat - this is a very common phenomenon
    personally encountered, and the "angel" "climbed" between us (971) and BDR, the distances were such that on the secondary search the BDR rifle turned on us
    I know the case when the "los" "assembled" 6 (SIX) torpedoes - 3 two-torpedoed salvoes (BDR, RTM from his escort and leopard), 3 or 4 torpedoes were raised with guidance
  • Old26 April 16 2019 19: 41 New
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    Maxim! Thank you for the article. I am pleased to read not only your articles, but also controversy, incl. and on "Courage." Far from the fleet and naval weapons (torpedoes, mines and other). But here is a question for you. Our native Moscow region always loves to express themselves in the “Aesopian” language and it is often impossible to understand what they mean.
    As far as I understand from the publications (not only yours) the “Physicist” torpedo is not so long ago in the series. Correct if I am mistaken. They say somewhere from 2011, somewhere they say from 2015. So, in the last single day of military acceptance (12.04.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX), talking about the supply of samples in the interests of the Navy, such a figure sounded
    For the first quarter of the Navy received 24 repaired torpedoes "Physicist-1"

    It’s really such a pity that the workmanship is poor, that repairs are carried out in such quantities per quarter (four times as many per year, that is, a hundred, or even more), or I’m mistaken and this is the usual practice of repairing in such quantities, or this is not repair, and repair with modernization. Just as far as I remember before, there never was such a detailing on the VP United Days

    Sincerely ...
    1. Fizik M April 16 2019 19: 47 New
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      Quote: Old26
      Really such, sorry low quality workmanship that repairs are in such quantities for the quarter

      honestly, I don’t know for sure, and I won’t even find out
      I assume that this is a remake of the "first" (who were "deaf" - what he wrote about in Bravery)
      there was a direct sabotage of military acceptance (for formal reasons, another imposing of an antenna was imposed, as compared with that with which the product was tested)
  • Fizik M April 16 2019 19: 59 New
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    I can not help but notice that especially me today pleased laughing cowardly, petty and stupid trolls lol - for its mass consummation laughing
    these + and - are absolutely parallel to me, but they completely showed the "degree of your burning of the bottoms"
    and it pleases laughing
    - it means that screeching costs not only for you, but also for your owners angry
    love
    laughing
  • Old26 April 16 2019 20: 01 New
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    Quote: Fizik M
    Quote: Old26
    Really such, sorry low quality workmanship that repairs are in such quantities for the quarter

    honestly, I don’t know for sure, and I won’t even find out
    I assume that this is a remake of the "first" (who were "deaf" - what he wrote about in Bravery)
    there was a direct sabotage of military acceptance (for formal reasons, another imposing of an antenna was imposed, as compared with that with which the product was tested)

    Maxim, thanks for the answer
  • Orkraider April 16 2019 20: 38 New
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    Thank you very much for the article and for the issue that has been raised more than once on our open spaces. From ancient times, Russia has rested on the enthusiasm of those who are not indifferent and those who are ready to tear the veins for it 24 hours a day and clenched their teeth to solve problems.
    Apparently, your knocking reached the addressees and the mechanism worked.

    Maxim, thank you.

    Thanks to people like you, who really know and are not afraid to talk about problems, who bangs their heads on, ahem, the wall, and positive changes occur.

    God bless you!
  • Vovan April 16 2019 22: 22 New
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    Quote: Fizik M
    it’s not even so much “confidence” as KNOWLEDGE

    The knowledge that the shooting will fail is not that unbiased, it is not even a fact, since this has not happened yet. In general, at this point, according to the law of Duns Scotus, it is pointless to get acquainted with the author's further arguments.
    1. Leha667 April 16 2019 23: 15 New
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      Often I watched the development of CBD on simulators in our training center. After that, I am generally surprised that at practical firing they get somewhere))) And if they do, then it is either luck, or .. well, you understand)
    2. Fizik M April 17 2019 11: 25 New
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      Quote: Vovan
      since this has not happened yet

      apparently the words KNOW, THINK and ANALYZE YOU are not known lol
      Quote: Vovan
      It’s pointless to get acquainted with further arguments of the author.

      YOU are definitely harmful
      already at how many trolls their owners "blaze" laughing
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Brigadier April 17 2019 08: 44 New
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    Do not confuse the USSR and Putin's capitalist Russia!
    The main thing there was to do, the main thing here was to convince ...


    And today the main messages of our power to the people:
    - no money, but you hold on
    - progressive tax on rich friends of Putin will not be introduced
    - try to live up to the extended retirement period
    - the state did not ask you to give birth
    - eat macaroni
    - the government will always come up with new taxes for you so as not to relax ...

  • Nazaroff April 17 2019 08: 59 New
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    The worst thing is that in the event of a clash with NATO, because of the stupid "foresight" of the Navy’s staff, our sailors will die under the ice ... Tsushima, with the "effective" shells of Russian battleships and cruisers - a clear and scary, albeit distant example. ..
    1. frolov andrey April 18 2019 00: 02 New
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      The crew and staff died there, who crap arrogantly.
  • Vovan April 17 2019 18: 55 New
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    Quote: Fizik M
    apparently the words KNOW, THINK and ANALYZE YOU are not known

    :) Apparently, in support of the Duns Scott Law, you replace the word LOGIC with "KNOW, THINK and ANALYZE" - completeness: you are far from the scholastic. Learn logic so that you don’t substitute it anymore.
    PS :))) And yes - "KNOW, THINK and ANALYZE" - these are SUBJECT categories.
    1. frolov andrey April 18 2019 00: 06 New
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      You have broken the logical connective, which means your message is not true, and therefore the argument is not substantiated and is rejected.
      Challenge the author’s argument with a new attempt.
      1. Vovan April 18 2019 00: 38 New
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        I would be grateful if you logically :) explain the author’s argumentation, which subjective knowledge gives out as an objective fact :); and justify the need to challenge this argument :).
        PS And it would not be bad to explain who, where and which logical connective violated - telepaths are not here.
        1. Fizik M April 18 2019 10: 48 New
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          Quote: Vovan
          explain the author’s argumentation, which subjective knowledge gives out as an objective fact :); and justify the need to challenge this argument :).


          if "your car has a flat tire and the gas tank is not full", do you definitely need to "go somewhere" to understand what is "not riding"?
      2. Fizik M April 18 2019 10: 47 New
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        Quote: frolov andrey
        You violated

        if "your car has a flat tire and the gas tank is not full", do you definitely need to "go somewhere" to understand what is "not riding"?
  • Nazaroff April 17 2019 20: 35 New
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    Quote: Fizik M
    For RPLSN combat service, the use of "Vista" in the event of a sudden torpedo attack, could give an opportunity, if not survive, then at least have time to report back to the shore (which is already information and a possibility of strategic importance).
    Moreover, the practice of US Navy SSNs consists not only in maintaining constant intelligence of the waters adjacent to the Navy bases, and tracking our SPs, but also deliberately “setting it up” for our torpedo shots (to gather intelligence on our torpedo weapons), and even imitating firing torpedoes at our submarines (such cases in the 16 submarine squadron in 2000x were ...)
    The literal answer (and the end of the conversation) of Rear Admiral Evmenov was:
    - I am not interested ...

    After this answer, Rear Admiral Evmenov, if he were the 37th year, in the best case for himself, would go to felling the forest in Kolyma. At worst - would take a bullet in the forehead. And that would be CORRECT! How many now in the Navy are there such Eumens am
  • Horse, people and soul April 17 2019 23: 30 New
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    There are good reasons to believe that the “cold water” (the figures in the documents are given) simply will not cause the battery to start and start, i.e. the torpedo will be absolutely unfit.


    And what is the temperature of salt water in the Arctic if fresh water freezes at 0С?

    How critical is the temperature of the 0C for these batteries?
    1. Fizik M April 18 2019 10: 45 New
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      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      And what is the temperature of salt water in the Arctic if fresh water freezes at 0С?

      to minus 1,5 hail, as they said, comes
      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      How critical is the temperature of the 0C for these batteries?

      Well, if they do not stupidly cock and start?
      1. Horse, people and soul April 18 2019 17: 37 New
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        That’s how these minus one and a half degrees versus minus forty in the air in Siberia are somewhat critical for batteries.

        Therefore, IMHO, the problem with the batteries is somewhat contrived, especially since the torpedo with its batteries is in the boat, where the atmosphere is such that the crew undresses from heat. And during the launch, in those few tens of minutes, the inside of the torpedo with batteries just did not have time to cool to a “critical” temperature, especially since overboard minus one and a half degrees in total. Cooling as well as heating are rather slow processes. Nichrome after a torpedo shot dozens of hours sustained in the boat at plus 30, when leaving the boat there will be no torpedoes on the batteries in an instant minus one and a half degrees. And even after 20 minutes there will not be these minus one and a half degrees.

        hi

        The unfortunate, non-guiding torpedo batteries in the article are considered as a spherical crystal horse in a vacuum, that is, in isolation from reality.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Fizik M April 21 2019 13: 25 New
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          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          That’s how these minus one and a half degrees versus minus forty in the air in Siberia are somewhat critical for batteries.

          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          Therefore, IMHO, the problem with the batteries is somewhat contrived, especially since the torpedo with its batteries is in the boat

          fool
          what are the "batteries"?!?!?
          DISPOSABLE batteries - water-chemical current sources (VHIT)
          activated by MARINE water with specific parameters for salinity and temperature

          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          a torpedo with its batteries is in the boat

          she is overboard
          in a torpedo tube
          but even if I were on the shelf - the problem still remains
  • Horse, people and soul April 17 2019 23: 56 New
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    And no matter how “trivial” the interested persons try to present the combat effectiveness of Russian torpedoes in the main theaters of military operations, in fact this trifle puts the effectiveness of our entire SNF into question.


    Chatting - helping the enemy.



    Do not chat!
    1. Fizik M April 18 2019 10: 39 New
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      AGAIN
      1. The article was rigidly filtered - what to write and what not to write (and why)
      2. The situation for the enemy is clear better than our PPR, because It has an effective intelligence system. Especially for this part. It comes to the fact that their submarines are deliberately substituted for our torpedo shots - to remove the characteristics and logic of the torpedo (SSN) during guidance.
      And these are not isolated cases, but massive ones.
  • shadow April 18 2019 00: 42 New
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    Hmm. How many such screams have been since 2011, who do not know anything, but flood, it’s even difficult to count. Another squealing something was heating up and many at once, in order to get the cherished pluses, they began to dance under his do-do. Some already danced in 2014). They still rake the remains of their dances.
    1. Fizik M April 18 2019 10: 41 New
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      Quote: Shadows
      hard to count. One more

      Hmm ... how everything works for YOU ... water for YOU just won’t help ... but "punitive ..." with the advent of the "era of democracy" repeat canceled ...
  • srelock April 18 2019 02: 54 New
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    Spring came and "mina" burst with another delirium laughing good
    1. Fizik M April 18 2019 10: 44 New
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      Quote: srelock
      "mina" burst next

      how is it in the "DMB" winked
      it is you now ... smiling, and there you will also ... smiling! angry
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        1. Fizik M April 18 2019 13: 05 New
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          Quote: srelock
          mina, but weak

          yes i was there
          and more than once
          moreover, the "composition" brought (up to the original signatures)
          managed to do something - the same "Case" was able to remake in a more sane form
          but - there was no "case" (although I repeat - there was a "composition")
          but in general - see Courage, forum, torpedoes - there it was all in the chronology and with comments (not just mine;)

          there you can see just EPIC - how the military prosecutor’s office of the Federation Council requires coordination of the repair and modernization of torpedoes (including the ammunition shell of the Strategic Nuclear Forces) with ... Kiev (KZA) - and this is at the end of 2015 !!!
          I emphasize - this is not talk (they have a problem at all - these scoundrels took subscriptions + for all the chipboards), laid out DOCUMENTS (“lit up” in court - the prosecutor’s number was there with chipboard - the court simply rewrote their decision (which is online) from their Chipboard documents)

          and in the Prosecutor General’s Office I have a set of documents ready
          but it will be charged after it "explodes" after OTHER authority
          and at GWP they will finally be forced to take up their direct responsibilities regarding
          1. srelock April 19 2019 05: 03 New
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            Quote: Fizik M
            yes i was there
            and more than once
            moreover, the "composition" brought (up to the original signatures)
            managed to do something - the same "Case" was able to remake in a more sane form
            but - there was no "case" (although I repeat - there was a "composition") ...

            Great. Please post your answer yes
            1. Fizik M April 21 2019 13: 21 New
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              +2

              http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=1321&p=5#p759779
  • Wildcat April 18 2019 09: 46 New
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    Great article! Good stuff, the right conclusions!
  • Svat April 18 2019 15: 15 New
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    Personally, I have a question - how do you know that torpedo firing is not carried out ???
    1. Fizik M April 18 2019 15: 33 New
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      Quote: Svat
      Personally, I have a question - how do you know that torpedo firing is not carried out ???

      the answer is exactly the same as the question - FROM ME;)
      Do you want to believe that they "were" - not a question, I do not dispute "theological questions"
      believe in anyone and in anything, even in the god Kuzyu ...
      1. Viknt April 20 2019 18: 42 New
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        what is the point of bickering with trolls, it would be better if in essence, you get sick of chatter

        In England, guns are not cleaned with bricks ... Yes, there has never been such a thing, and now again! Lavrenty Palych said in such cases: "I don’t understand anything about this, you give me your last name!" True, now the times are not the same and we must start with income. It is treated at a time. In the course of the Cause, one track can cure the entire admiralty and generals of the military-industrial complex. But for this it is necessary that someone needs it. Hand washes a hand. This is not a separate, isolated phenomenon, when someone (alone), somewhere, sometimes, sometimes, is a whole system from the bottom to the very tops, which generates and maintains the status quo. "The market of free competition ...."