Army gun in the USA. Part of 2

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In 2015, the US armed forces announced the long-awaited for manufacturers of small arms weapons competition for the selection of a new army gun XM17, the program MHS (Modular Handgun System - Modular Weapon System).

How necessary was the new US Army pistol, in the end, the Beretta M-92FS (in the U.S. Armed Forces designated as M.9) is not such an outdated weapon? The main reason for this program is the same as in case of replacing the Colt M1911 A1 with the Beretta M.9. During those 15-20 years that Beretta M.9 pistols have served, many of their elements could seriously wear out, of course, provided they do not lie in stock waiting for a world war, but are actively exploited, at least for training purposes.
Of course, some elements, such as the barrel, springs, pins, and others, can be replaced, but the complexity of diagnostics and repair, with the replacement of worn parts, can be quite high and financially burdensome. Another option is to purchase additional batches of M.9 pistols also inefficient, since experience accumulates during the operation, the requirements for the army pistol change, manufacturers offer new design solutions.



Requirements for a new army pistol began to be developed from the 2008 year and include a modular design, with the possibility of replacing pistol elements for shooters with different sizes of hands. The controls should be bilateral, with the possibility of convenient use by both right-handers and left-handers. The gun must be equipped with guides for mounting rifle accessories and various types of sights. Gun cover should not be slippery and glare.

Pistols should provide sufficient shooting accuracy to hit an 4-inch target (10 cm) from 50 meters in 90 percent of cases throughout the life of the weapon. Each offer had to include two pistols - one full-sized, the second compact, or one pistol, satisfying the requirements for both the full-sized and the compact model.

According to the requirements of reliability and durability, the proposed pistols must provide at least 2000 shots without delays, at least 10 000 shots before the appearance of faults, and ensure the life of the barrel to 35 000 shots.

In the user manual for the new army pistol, all steps necessary to operate the pistol and modify its ergonomic component should be described in detail. The design of the gun should exclude the possibility of complete disassembly by unprepared users (read soldiers). Complete disassembly should be done by a specialist gunsmith with special tools.

An interesting point, despite the fact that the US Army uses the standard NATO cartridge 9x19, there was no strict caliber / cartridge requirement for the pistol under the MHS program. Due to complaints from the military about the insufficient lethality of the 9x19 cartridge when using pistols of this caliber in combat zones such as Iraq and Afghanistan, manufacturers could offer weapons of other calibers, such as .40 S&W .45 ACP, .357 SIG, FN 5,7, 28 × XNUMX mm.

In addition, the possibility of using expansive and fragmented bullets in a new army pistol was considered. The Hague Convention 1899, prohibiting their use in hostilities, the United States did not sign, although to date, and complied with. It is believed that the use of expansive and fragmented bullets in the cartridge 9х19 will increase its stopping and damaging effect without switching to another caliber.

As with previous attempts to replace an army pistol in 1978-1988, obstacles have arisen. The Armed Services Committee of the US House of Representatives demanded that the MHS program be canceled and the Beretta M. 9 pistol instead be upgraded. Company Beretta, wanting to remain guaranteed to be the main supplier of army army pistols
The United States, even before the announcement of the official launch of the MHS program, introduced in December 2014, an upgraded gun Beretta M9A3, partially meeting the requirements of the US Armed Forces for the new gun.

The gun Beretta M9A3 is a further development of the model Beretta M. 9 / M-92FS. It is equipped with guides under the barrel, interchangeable front sight, handle less coverage. In the muzzle of the barrel there is a thread with a removable protective sleeve, designed to install a quick-release muffler.


Gun Beretta M9A3


Tactical and technical characteristics of the gun Beretta M9A3:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 15 cartridges;
Barrel length: 125 mm;
Overall length: 216 mm;
Weapon height: 137 mm;
Mass without cartridges: 961 g.


However, the proposal from Beretta was rejected, the US House of Representatives approved the cost of the new gun, and in August 2015, the US military officially announced the start of the MHS program, indicating the program cost in the amount of 580 million dollars.
The tests of the pistols were planned to be held before the end of 2017, and starting from 2018, the winner was supposed to deliver US Army 280 000 standard M17 pistols for the army, replacing Beretta M.9, 212 000 M17 pistols for other services and 7 000XXXXXXXXX18 XNUMX pistols for other services and XNUMX XNUMXXXXXXXXXXNUMX XNUMX MXNUMX pistols for other services and XNUMX XNUMXXXXXXXXNUMX XNUMX MXNUMX pistols for other services and XNUMX XNUMXXXXXXXXNUMX XNUMX MXNUMX pistols

A total of pistols from eight weapon companies were selected for testing.

Beretta submitted a new APX pistol to the competition. The Czech company Ceska zbrojovka participated with a compact pistol CZ P-07 and a full-size CZ P-09 in caliber 9x19 and .40 S&W. The American branch of FN America LLC of the Belgian company Fabrique Nationale presented the FN 509 pistol specially designed for the requirements of the MHS program.

Sphinx presented the SDP pistol for the competition. Austrian Glock Participated with Glock 19 MHS pistols chambered for 9x19 and Glock 23 MHS chambered for .40 S & W. SIG Sauer presented the P320 MHS in full-size and compact versions. American companies participated - Smith & Wesson with an M&P M2.0 pistol, STI-Detonics and an STX pistol.

According to some reports, pistols from Heckler & Koch, Springfield Armory, Taurus and Walther were also considered as applicants, but they did not officially take part in the competition.

Since the Beretta M9A3 pistol did not have a compact version, and in a number of parameters it did not fit the requirements of the MHS competition, Beretta participated with the new APX pistol. Presumably this gun was developed specifically for the requirements of the MHS program, including the modular design. Under the requirements of the program MHS Veretta APX is equipped with a non-automatic fuse, whereas for civilian use there is a version with an automatic fuse just like Glock pistols.

The Beretta APX pistol uses automation with a short barrel stroke and its locking by biased breech. The bolt is made of stainless steel, the frame of the pistol is made of a shock-resistant polymer, the trigger is shock, with a pre-trigger of the trigger and the shutter, when the trigger is pressed.

Presumably, one of the factors that played against the Beretta APX pistol was the lack of mass production of these pistols at the start of the MHS program and their sale to any power structures.


Pistol Beretta APX


Tactical and technical characteristics of the gun Beretta APX:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 17 cartridges;
Barrel length: 085 mm;
Overall length: 192 mm;
Weapon height: 142 mm;
Mass without cartridges: 760 g.


The CZ P-07 and P-09 pistols submitted to the competition by Ceska zbrojovka are based on the design of the CZ-75 pistol, which is well-known to athletes involved in practical shooting. Pistols are based on a polymer chassis with a steel shutter and have a new (with respect to the CZ-75) trigger double-action USM Omega with a smoother trigger. Automation is based on the use of recoil in the short course of the barrel, locking is carried out using the declining breech breech. The controls and the shape of the gun are optimized for working with gloves.

According to user feedback, the gun is convenient and accurate. Apparently, the US Army was not satisfied with the modularity of the CZ P-07 and P-09 pistols, which consists only in the possibility of replacing the rear part of the handle, which is probably why Ceska zbrojovka refused to formally participate in the competition.


CZ P-09 Pistol


Performance characteristics of the pistol CZ P-09:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 19 cartridges;
Barrel length: 112 mm;
Overall length: 210 mm;
Mass without cartridges: 862 g.


FN America LLC entered the MHS competition with a single FN 509 pistol, which was offered both as a full-size and as a compact version. Polymer pistol frame. Automatic pistol works under the scheme of using recoil of a rolling barrel during its short course, locking with the help of a declining barrel, clutch of the upper protrusion of its breech with an enlarged window for ejection of spent cartridges. USM drumnikov, with a pre-cocked drummer.

As with the CZ P-07 and P-09 pistols, the FN 509 pistol does not implement modularity.


FN 509 Pistol



FN 509 pistol with silencer, collimator sight, rifle flashlight and extended magazine


Tactical and technical characteristics of the gun FN 509:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 17 cartridges;
Barrel length: 102 mm;
Overall length: 188 mm;
Weapon height: 141 mm;
Mass without cartridges: 762 g.


According to the Swiss Sphinx SDP pistol, the data differs; according to one data, both the full-size version and the Compact variant were involved, according to other data only the Compact variant, which, however, is not so important. Sphinx pistols are derived from the CZ 75 pistol, and the SDP model is no exception, respectively, its design is similar to that of the progenitor, with minor modifications. The modularity of this gun is absent, and the price is probably higher than the competitors (the price for high quality workmanship), respectively, the probability of winning this sample from the very beginning was minimal.


Sphinx SDP Compact Pistol


Tactical and technical characteristics of the gun Sphinx SDP Compact:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 15 cartridges;
Barrel length: 95 mm;
Overall length: 190 mm;
Weapon height: 140 mm;
Mass without cartridges: 780 g.


For the sake of the MHS competition, the Austrian company Glock made unbelievable sacrifices by releasing versions of their pistols with a non-automatic safety device (previously, this was done only according to the requirements of the “native” Austrian army). Due to the fuse, the thickness of the guns increased by 2 mm.

Initially, it was assumed that the competition would involve Glock 17 / Glock 19 pistols in caliber 9x19 and Glock 22 / Glock 23 in caliber .40S & W. However, the Austrians surprised everyone by presenting, so to speak, "hybrid" versions of these models - Glock 19 MHS and Glock 23 MHS. So Glock 19 MHS corresponds in height to Glock 17, and in length of the barrel and body of Glock 19. Accordingly, for Glock 23 MHS these are the dimensions of Glock 22 and Glock 23. The front faces of the bolts of both pistols are made in a beveled form, like the shutters of subcompacts - Glock 26 Glock 27. Pistols have a protective non-glare coating.

Glock MHS pistol magazines are not compatible with civilian models due to the protective protrusion on the handle. For each pistol, a magazine of standard capacity - 17 rounds 9x19 or 15 rounds .40S & W, and an increased capacity - 19 rounds 9x19 or 22 rounds .40S & W, with a lid protruding beyond the handle were fired. The neck of the magazine is widened for quick installation of the new magazine, there is a removable swivel at the back. Otherwise, for the most part it's the same "good old" Glock.

Again, the main reason for the rejection of Glock MHS pistols is non-compliance with the modularity requirements of the weapon. Looking ahead, the company Glock filed a protest, believing that the capabilities of its pistols were undervalued compared to the winning competitor, but the protest was rejected.


Pistol Glock 19 MHS


Tactical and technical characteristics of the gun Glock 19 MHS:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 17 or 19 cartridges;
Barrel length: 102 mm;
Overall length: 185 mm;
Weapon height: 138 mm;
Mass without cartridges: 708 g.


The American company Smith & Wesson participated with the M&P 2.0 (Military and Police) model. The frame of the pistol is made of Zytel polymer with steel inserts, the automation is based on the use of recoil energy with a short barrel stroke, the barrel is locked according to the Browning scheme. The barrel, breech and other metal parts are made of stainless steel, firing trigger, double-acting only. The pistol grip is modular and has a removable rear part.

Despite the fact that the S&W M&P pistol is actively used by the power structures of the United States and other countries of the world, its design is also not modular in accordance with the requirements of the MHS program. Consequently, Smith & Wesson voluntarily withdrew from the competition.


S&W M&P 2.0 pistol


The performance characteristics of the S&W M&P 2.0 pistol:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 17 cartridges;
Barrel length: 108 mm;
Overall length: 188 mm;
Weapon height: 140 mm;
Mass without cartridges: 734 g.



S&W M&P pistol operation diagram

The second American company STI participated in the STX pistol. The chassis of the STX pistol is made of aluminum alloy brand 7075 with a polymer coating. The shutter is made of steel. The frame of the gun supports four different lengths of the barrel and bolt, there are two frame sizes for people with different sizes of hands.
The STI STX pistol was withdrawn from the MHS competition without explanation.


Pistol STI STX


Tactical and technical characteristics of the gun STI STX:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 17 cartridges;
Overall length: 178 (201) mm; *
Mass without cartridges: 652 (1020) g. *
* - different sources show different sizes and weights of the STI STX pistol, perhaps the data are for weapons with different barrel lengths and shutter-casing.



STI STX Pistol Presentation

Well, finally we come to the winner. The US 19 in January 2017 announced that the SIG Sauer P320 pistol in full-size and compact versions became the winner of the MHS competition. SIG Sauer will be awarded a contract worth 580,217 million dollars. In the US Army, the gun will receive the M17 designation for the full-size version and the M18 for the compact version.


Pistols SIG Sauer M17 and M18


Performance characteristics of the gun SIG Sauer М17:
Caliber: 9x19 mm;
Magazine capacity: 17 cartridges;
Barrel length: 119 mm;
Overall length: 203 mm;
Weapon height: 134 mm;
Weapon thickness: 35,5 mm
Mass without cartridges: 833 g.


The original SIG Sauer P320 has the maximum modularity of all the samples presented. The trigger can be inserted into frames of various sizes (full-size, compact, subcompact), with shutter-casings of various lengths and barrels of different lengths and calibers - 9 × 19, .357SIG, .40 S&W and .45 ACP.

Army gun in the USA. Part of 2

Frames, closures, covers, trunks modular set SIG Sauer P320


The replaceable frame of the М17, М18 pistols is polymer, but includes a removable metal base with USM parts and guides for the shutter, therefore, the movement of the bolt-casing and the barrel does not lead to wear of the polymer frame. The number of the weapon is stamped on a metal base; a slot is made in the frame so that this number can be seen.


Metal base pistols M17, M18


The pistols use automatic equipment with a moving barrel and a short stroke, with locking of the breech breech. USM shock, with a preliminary partial cocking. Full assembly and disassembly of the guns M17, M18 require special tools, as stipulated in the terms of the program MHS.

The guns М17 and М18 are equipped with double-sided manual fuses and slide-stop levers on the frame. Shop latch, can be installed on the left or right side. Rear sight mounted on a special removable platform, on the bolt-casing of the gun. Instead of a platform, compact collimator sights can be installed entirely, including numbers and compatible with night vision devices. Pistols can be equipped with elongated threaded barrels for installing a silencer.


Collimator sight on the SIG Sauer M17 pistol bolt mounted instead of the entire site


The length of the arms and the magazines used for the M17 and M18 pistols are the same. The troops pistols are supplied assembled, equipped with two additional interchangeable plastic frames with handles of sizes L, M and S, that is, large, medium and small.


SIG Sauer M17 and M18 pistols delivery set


In January, 2017 reported that a Connecticut police officer was injured by an accidental shot when his P320 fell to the ground. This problem also extended to the P320 pistols sold in the civilian market, however, according to SIG Sauer, this problem was eliminated in the M17 and M18 pistols, and the present moment should also be solved in the "civilian" samples.

There were information about some other problems of SIG Sauer М17, М18 pistols, such as accidental shots, ejection of non-firing cartridges (double ejection - when the unused ammunition with the all-metal shells flew out along with the cartridge case) . According to one data, the listed problems were treated in the initial phase of testing and eliminated in mass-supplied weapons, according to other data, these problems were revealed by military personnel from combat units that had already received new pistols.

On the other hand, given the number of handguns sold by SIG Sauer, the problems are unlikely to be massive, and we should look for their root causes. In the end, no one has yet succeeded in creating a structure that the other cannot break.


Video of unpacking and shooting by US military personnel with SIG Sauer M17 pistols

What conclusions can be drawn?

Compared to the first competition for the choice of an army pistol, which lasted almost ten years, the MHS competition was held in less than two years, almost without scandals, except for the complaint of Glock. However, who knows what will happen in six months or a year, if the problems continue, it is quite possible that the results will be canceled and they will start to choose again ...

There is a feeling that some companies participated in the MHS competition for a tick. It seems that there is a competition, as well as participants, but there is no competition as such, either they themselves have withdrawn, or are rejected for unknown reasons. In Russia, the topic of “fake” tender is well known when the conditions of a technical task (TOR) are tailored to match only one supplier. It is likely that in the stronghold of democracy they have also long been familiar with this scheme. In the end, Glock did not choose, is it a conspiracy?

On the other hand, one cannot exclude the possibility that the participating companies and the customer (US armed forces) sign an agreement on the confidentiality of test results for the competition so that the revealed shortcomings of one type of weapon or other do not reduce sales to other departments and private buyers.

In contrast to the competition for the 1978-1988 army pistol, all manufacturers offered models of classic design. No removal of powder gases, no rotating barrels, no automatic fire or other exotics.

In any case, the TK for a new model of weapons is a set of compromises between the desired characteristics and the capabilities of suppliers. A company that can make a limited batch of a constructively perfect pistol may not be able to expand its large-scale production. The desire to change the caliber to a more efficient one stumbles upon warehouses littered with cartridges of the caliber in use.

In view of the above, the US armed forces received a worthy pistol (set) capable of satisfying their needs for this type of weapon in the coming decades.

PS As part of the MHS program, a transition to another caliber was considered, perhaps quite formally, due to the alleged low efficiency of the 9x19 cartridge, while the US FBI, which had previously switched to the .40S & W caliber, is again returning to the 9x19 cartridge. But we'll talk about this in another article.
31 comment
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  1. +6
    April 15 2019 19: 22
    Great cycle! I read with interest. Author plus!
    1. +1
      April 16 2019 09: 49
      Yes, thanks to the author for the work done. I learned a lot about the requirements of a potential adversary for personal weapons. They made fun of the requirement that it was impossible to disassemble outside the service. We would also have to come up with an update system for the components of the gun during operation.
      Once again, he was convinced that there was no progress in the short-barrels for a long time, and without a radical change of ammunition there would be no more.
  2. Ban
    -1
    April 15 2019 19: 33
    Zig is a good gun, Glock is no worse, but it's a matter of taste. 9x19 - ideal, but better. I choose zig 320.
    1. +6
      April 15 2019 20: 13
      Shot at least from the chosen one?

      smile

      I, here, shot from different Sigov, but they really have good ones that are completely made of stainless steel. Alloy alloys are no different from other pistols, except for twice the price. And plastic ones are nothing remarkable at all. Due to the traditionally high position of the barrel above the hand, this plastic Sig throws much more lightweight Glock 17.
      1. 0
        15 October 2019 11: 03
        About throws - yes, noticeably. Glock is good for this - a small toss when shooting. Even for .40S & W
  3. +1
    April 15 2019 19: 49
    And why are they bothering? We would have turned to Rosoboronexport and we could have sold them to the PY ... or even the Boa!
  4. +6
    April 15 2019 19: 59
    Glock MHS pistol stores are not compatible with civilian models due to the protective overhang on the handle.


    This is not true. Compatibility is not only with the heel of the store 5-th generation. Ordinary 1-4 generation stores climb quietly there, just like the popular aftermarket Magpule stores pMag9.

    Glock has no civilian pistols. This desert-colored Glock MHS pistol is a special version for the US competition.

    The gun lost the competition (did not win) and Glock immediately removed the external safety device and re-released the gun, like Glox 19X. It comes with three stores (two pieces with a + 2 heel) and a night tritium scope.

    They were followed by a black 45 Glock with a shutter with front notches from the 19 Glock and a slightly modified frame from the 17 Glock (the front groove was removed, for the store’s power extraction, it disappeared after 1, it was cursed inconvenience for the little finger while holding - and it was removed again).

    Here is this Glock 19X.



    But Glock 45 in comparison with Glock 19X.



    Honestly ... since last year I began to get upset about the new Glock policy of making pistols of different colors and, with minor changes, assign new numbers to models. For American blacks, do they prepare sales?

    After 40 years of severity, suddenly such a uh ... uh, iridescence.
    1. +4
      April 15 2019 21: 25
      Good evening, man hi .

      Yes, you are right about the multi-colored "pistils". In general, the showcase with such barrels in the arms shop resembles the funky toy department in Children's World.
      And about the black "brothers from the ghetto" an interesting thought - what you can't do for the sake of profit. wink
    2. +2
      April 16 2019 08: 40
      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      Glock MHS pistol stores are not compatible with civilian models due to the protective overhang on the handle.


      This is not true. Compatibility is not only with the heel of the store 5-th generation. Ordinary 1-4 generation stores climb quietly there, just like the popular aftermarket Magpule stores pMag9.


      Yes, in fact, it was the fifth, the source said something like "Glock does not officially confirm compatibility, but in fact ..."

      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      Glock has no civilian pistols. This desert-colored Glock MHS pistol is a special version for the US competition.


      "Civil" should have been put in quotation marks, it is clear that many other Glokov models are used unchanged by different power structures.

      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      The gun lost the competition (did not win) and Glock immediately removed the external safety device and re-released the gun, like Glox 19X. It comes with three stores (two pieces with a + 2 heel) and a night tritium scope.

      They were followed by a black 45 Glock with a shutter with front notches from the 19 Glock and a slightly modified frame from the 17 Glock (the front groove was removed, for the store’s power extraction, it disappeared after 1, it was cursed inconvenience for the little finger while holding - and it was removed again).
      ...
      Honestly ... since last year I began to get upset about the new Glock policy of making pistols of different colors and, with minor changes, assign new numbers to models. For American blacks, do they prepare sales?

      After 40 years of severity, suddenly such a uh ... uh, iridescence.


      This is exactly solid marketing, when there is a weapon, it works, there is no way you can radically improve it, so different tricks are invented. Pink is coming soon ...
      1. 0
        April 16 2019 16: 21
        Soon pink will be released ...


        After the pink Torus and Smith-Schild, I'm almost sure on 100%.
        1. 0
          April 17 2019 16: 43
          Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
          After the pink Torus and Smith-Schild, I'm almost sure on 100%.





          So long ago. The truth is, this is caste, so far they have not officially reached it.
          1. 0
            19 May 2019 10: 38
            Paint for weapons are sold freely.

            Yes

            You can even paint in gray-brown-raspberry speckled. Whether it is necessary?

            This pink charm of the post of two packs of cartridges will be with a shutter smoked in front, from which the hands of the shooter will be black, like a tractor driver.

            Rare cartridges give clean exhaust. They are usually more expensive and marketed as "nature friendly". The bulk of the "smokeless" cartridges are smoked so that mom does not indulge. The pistol gets littered with them inside and out.
  5. +1
    April 15 2019 20: 39
    Their taxpayer money has nowhere to go!
  6. +2
    April 15 2019 21: 02
    In view of the above, the US armed forces received a worthy pistol (set) capable of satisfying their needs for this type of weapon in the coming decades.


    Well, let's see ... those who survive. All the same, the love of 1911, Beretta 92 and Glock cannot be eradicated among the Americans.

    PS As part of the MHS program, a transition to another caliber was considered, perhaps quite formally, due to the alleged low efficiency of the 9x19 cartridge, while the US FBI, which had previously switched to the .40S & W caliber, is again returning to the 9x19 cartridge. But we'll talk about this in another article.


    The fact is that the Americans began to understand that it’s better to hit 9 mm twice than miss twice from the forty. The middle shooter is easier to shoot nine than forty. Therefore, the average results for the nine are better, given how much the same average shooters smear with the forty.
    1. 0
      15 October 2019 11: 08
      And .357 Sig recoil even more ((
  7. +3
    April 15 2019 22: 04
    Good article, thanks!

    It is curious that recently there was an article on topvar where we were assured - shops with a transition from two rows in one row - for the army totally unsuitable! Judging by the photographs of the ZiG Sauer M17 store, the Americans have not heard of such a problem.
    1. -2
      April 16 2019 00: 24
      Quote: Saxahorse
      It is curious that recently there was an article on topvar where we were assured - shops with a transition from two rows in one row - for the army totally unsuitable! Judging by the photographs of the ZiG Sauer M17 store, the Americans have not heard of such a problem.
      Reply

      All the most accurate sports pistols have single-row magazines, the cartridge is fed from the magazine to the chamber in a straight line, from bottom to top, without left and right bevels that open the weapon left and right. They also try to minimize the feed height and to lighten the weight of the cartridge itself. This is physics. The cartridge has a mass. If the cartridge feed is direct, as in a single-row magazine, then the gun is easier to keep on the line of sight. It only sags slightly when the cartridge moves from the magazine to the chamber. And with a beveled feed of the cartridge, the gun sags down, and also dangles left and right. So it’s more difficult to hold the gun, it takes more time to aim, and fatigue from shooting manifests itself earlier. With fatigue, the arrow's ability to concentrate decreases, and, accordingly, the accuracy of shooting and the rate of fire also fall. Hence, two-row shops with a single-row exit, in order to preserve the advantages of a single-row magazine, to increase the capacity of the pistol magazine. Fully double-row stores without rebuilding are common in fully automatic weapons.
      The mass of the cartridge must be reduced so that even with a single-line feed, the gun sags less. Even if you reduce only the back of the sleeve, as with a cartridge with a reduced flange, then the balance of the weapon when feeding the cartridge improves.
      There are high-precision target pistols where they try to solve all these problems as much as possible. The balance of the gun when shooting is very important for an accurate and quick shot. Direct feed of the cartridge, the height of the cartridge from the gun magazine to the chamber, the weight of the cartridge, the center of inertia of the cartridge, the weight and balance of the pistol shutter, the overall balance of the gun. The correct accurate gun is difficult to construct. It is necessary not only to play with the layouts, but also to know the physics, a compromise.
      1. -1
        April 16 2019 17: 21
        Even if you reduce only the back of the sleeve, as with a cartridge with a reduced flange, then the balance of the weapon when feeding the cartridge improves.


        Reduced flanges again?

        laughing

        Yes, do not care the effect of these reduced flanges on the mass of the cartridge, if only a bullet of the same 9x19 can weigh from 6 to 10 grams.
        1. 0
          April 16 2019 18: 09
          Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
          Reduced flanges again?
          Yes, do not care the effect of these reduced flanges on the mass of the cartridge, if only a bullet of the same 9x19 can weigh from 6 to 10 grams.

          Are you sure you don't care?
          laughing
          Can you simulate the nature of oscillation of the pistol in the vertical and horizontal planes on the time diagram during the reloading of the pistol and the chambering of the cartridge: with an oblique feed and single, a sleeve with a reduced flange and a regular one? Just in time to simulate, if you are so smart?
          I’m sure that you won’t even be able to simulate how the cartridge moves from the magazine to the chamber, and you don’t know which cartridge affects the other cartridges in the magazine, which also affect the oscillation of the weapon when reloading, moving up and down with acceleration. The fact that the cartridge unfolds and lowers the lower cartridges down in the magazine, the mass of which develops, and this action takes place in a very short moment of time and causes forces that affect the accuracy of holding the weapon during aiming and the balance of the weapon, of course you have no idea.
          If I knew, I didn’t write nonsense. This is in addition to the fact that the movement of the cartridge itself from the magazine up into the chamber with acceleration also causes the force of an oscillating gun in the hand. This is with the best single direct feed, which today is by default on all the best Western pistols, with very rare atrefacts waiting for their store to be rebuilt.
          A cartridge with a reduced diameter of the flange, even if the mass of the cartridge case is left the same, at the level of the standard, the weapon will oscillate less when reloading, because it will lower the lower cartridges by a smaller amount. The center of inertia of the cartridge with a reduced flange closer to the pool is shifted forward, so after the cartridge is sent to the chamber, the weapon’s oscillation will end earlier, and you will make the next aimed shot from the pistol faster.

          The cartridge with a reduced flange gives a gain in any self-loading magazine in terms of accuracy and balance of weapons for such a cartridge, in addition, it allows you to design a more compact and light bolt group, which also affects the oscillations of the weapon during operation, and the balance of the weapon, the total weight of the weapon .

          Learn to think with your head before you write. You are the only one "mentally gifted" who has been proving to me from the first day that the reduced flange does not affect anything. Meanwhile, in self-loading weapons, they abandoned the cartridge with a protruding rim. And since the 2000s with the United States, and about 10 years earlier in Europe, the production of ammunition and weapons for them with a reduced sleeve flange began. German cartridges developed in the 30s of the 20th century, which you use in your pistol, do not have a reduced flange, so you constantly prove to me that only you have everything right, and the rest are all d.o.a.k. which reduces the flange and lightens the liner.

          You don’t even have enough intelligence in your head to think that a smaller diameter flange is lighter than a large one. The area of ​​a circle and the volume of a cylinder are higher mathematics for you. "Specialist" laughing
          When moving with acceleration, as the cartridge moves at the moment it is sent to the chamber from the store, the small grams turn into a rather tangible force, which swings the weapon and interferes with aiming, pumps the weapon when the cartridge is already in the chamber, and thereby prevents a faster next aiming shot. With a reduced flange we win in everything, plus we throw off the excess brass from the sleeve. Did you understand anything from what I wrote? lol
          1. 0
            April 16 2019 21: 09
            I have long understood that you are a completely sick person ...

            crying

            ... and not polite.
            1. 0
              April 16 2019 21: 55
              Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
              I have long understood that you are a completely sick person ...



              ... and not polite.

              Cartoons do not scroll in the head? laughing We reduce the flange and the cartridge supplied by the bolt to the barrel chamber before it rises with its center of mass to the axis of the barrel, the cartridges in the store will earlier rise to the place of the cartridge sent to the chamber and will end the upward movement in the store before the next shot. Imagine this process in the form of a film, and slow down your imagination to see frame by frame where the cartridge with the smaller flange begins to overtake the cartridge with the larger flange. Only in vertical projection with direct supply of a cartridge from a single-row magazine does the oscillation of the pistol with cartridges with a reduced flange end earlier, the pistol returns to a stable stable vertical position earlier. This raises the practical rate of fire of the pistol: the pistol returned to a dormant state earlier, you had time to aim and shoot earlier - the shooter with APS is dead, and you are alive. This shape of the sleeve is more perfect. This is a 21st century cartridge. In the 19th century there were cartridges with a protruding edge, in the 20th century - flangeless. This is the evolution of a cartridge.

              An elementary example for you, as an "athlete", gave above, so that he could scroll in his head and not weigh the cartridges on the scales. In motion, grams acquire a different meaning than in static - a bullet weighing 2 grams pierces a bulletproof vest at a distance of 200 meters, and on the scales it is only 2 grams of metal.
              . I don’t know how you are taught shooting there, but I understood the work of weapons: bolts, pistols, machine guns and self-loading rifles at school, when I was shooting at dashes, and went to the firing ranges to shoot from the army. All of what I shot - I understood what and how it hinders firing accuracy: that a 5,45 mm AK bolt dangles inside and shoots down the sight, how the barrel and receiver bend at a bolt rifle and affect accuracy, or improper manufacturing affects accuracy and accuracy , like at a pistol, the cartridges in the store rise after a shot, and a bolt flying backwards knocks the pistol back when you want to make the next aimed shot faster, as the gun twists due to rifling in the barrel ... A good trigger understood a high-quality cartridge. I understood everything I needed at the schoolchild level.
              I understood this at 13-14 years old. Apparently, I was better taught to shoot. Therefore, I understand when I see new models of ammunition and weapons, what their potential is. And you don’t know what's in your head. You consider yourself a shooter, but you don’t understand the work of weapons. Understand, then speak.
    2. +1
      April 16 2019 08: 42
      Quote: Saxahorse
      Good article, thanks!

      It is curious that recently there was an article on topvar where we were assured - shops with a transition from two rows in one row - for the army totally unsuitable! Judging by the photographs of the ZiG Sauer M17 store, the Americans have not heard of such a problem.


      It is believed that the double-row output is more reliable, probably in the United States they believe that it is not necessary to litter to such a degree a weapon when this problem appears.

      It is a pity that there are no open tests conducted by independent users to compare.
      We now generally just do it (if there is access to weapons), the new Viking-M supports shops with both single-row and two-row exits.
      1. 0
        April 16 2019 11: 03
        Quote: AVM
        probably in the USA they think that it is not necessary to litter weapons to such an extent when this problem appears.

        In the US, pistols are sold almost freely, police clearance takes very little time, and Americans shoot a lot. Therefore, they prefer pistols of a more advanced design. A single-row magazine with a good gun also works quite reliably. They are working on the design of the store. Models with a problem store will never be bought by the army and special forces. The police from the pistol with an unsuccessful store will also not be delighted. Doubtful designs are still found on the civilian market, but most buyers, even on the civilian market, try to acquire pistols that have proven themselves in professional shooters.
        Quote: AVM
        It is a pity that there are no open tests conducted by independent users to compare.

        How is it no test? And in the USA, why almost all the best modern pistols have a single-line exit with direct feed from the store to the chamber? A lot of people shoot, a lot of weapon blogs on the Internet and channels on YouTube, where the Americans choose pistols, other weapons. They don’t buy a gun nodding left-right when reloading, because it is less accurate.
        Now, Russian-Soviet pistols can be freely bought in the United States. If a store without any rebuilding had any serious advantages that would outweigh its shortcomings, then Americans would buy stechkines, instead of whitefish, beret and glock - these are not American brands of pistols, and ordinary American patriotism cannot explain the preferences here. But our pistols, except for the Makarov pistol, are not popular in the USA. And Germans, Italians, Swiss and Czechs use it. It's all about physics. Direct feed gives only a nod of the gun down when the cartridge is fed into the chamber from the magazine, and at the store with a beveled cartridge feed from the magazine, alternate nods are added to the left and to the right swinging the gun when shooting. Choose a more accurate gun. The reliability of the pistol is assessed practically during firing during tests and during the operation of the pistol. It is more difficult to design a magazine with rebuilding in order to work reliably than an ordinary two-row one without rebuilding, but for a gun such a magazine is better.
        1. +1
          April 16 2019 11: 13
          Quote: Mayor_Vikhr

          ... If a store without rebuilding had any serious advantages that would outweigh its disadvantages, then Americans would buy Stechkins, instead of whitefish, beret and gobs ... The store with rebuilding, to work reliably, is more difficult to design than the usual two-row without rebuilding.



          Here it is not necessary to argue with me, because I do not have access to information on reliability, for single-row / two-row shops there was a topic: https://topwar.ru/153332-pochemu-ne-glok-potomu-chto-magazin-proshu-ne -menjat-nazvanie-stati.html

          I have previously expressed my point of view:
          But personally, I would prefer a pistol, which, although it may stop working when contaminated, is guaranteed to work reliably in normal conditions than a pistol that can refuse at any time due to the abominable workmanship, if it is theoretically possible to work in the dirt.


          in the article about the Russian army pistol - https://topwar.ru/156278-armejskij-pistolet-v-rossii-chast-2.html
          1. 0
            April 16 2019 11: 28
            Quote: AVM
            Here it is not necessary to argue with me, since I do not have access to information on reliability, there was a topic for single-row / double-row stores

            I argue with her. He shot a lot from different pistols, revolvers. I shot a lot of sports pistols from different targets at the shooting range, where to learn to shoot aiming, and not for the sake of entertainment, and I know how weapons with different store designs, shutter designs behave.
            In the United States, it’s easier for a gun manufacturer to make a pistol with a supply of a cartridge, like in the same Stechkin pistol store, for a gun manufacturer. Such a store is much simpler in calculation and in production is also slightly simpler. But the shooters will reject such a gun, the military, special forces, the police, the FBI will not buy ... Therefore, the manufacturer, meeting the wishes of potential customers, makes a store with improved combat characteristics. In the USA it’s the armed population, and it’s much harder for professionals to equip bad weapons than in a country where only a small percentage of the population shoots only 3 rounds every six months, and the majority of the population never shoot a pistol at all. It is so obvious that arguing does not even make sense.
      2. 0
        April 16 2019 16: 59
        It is believed that a two-row output is more reliable.


        There is one, but important nuance associated with the reliability of stores without rebuilding relative to stores with rebuilding.

        This nuance is the shape of the bullet, which can be different, and on which the reliable supply of ptrons depends.

        If you take a magazine with rebuilding, then the cartridge will be fed to the ramp every time in the same way, which will work more reliably even with a different shape of the bullet than if it was fed to the ramp again and again from left to right. I'm not talking about the movement of cartridges in the store itself, but about feeding them from the store to the barrel ramp.

        From stores without rebuilding, you can achieve a reliable supply of cartridges, but if the type of cartridges is changed to cartridges with a different form of bullet, then the picture with a reliable supply is likely to change in the direction of just unreliable.

        Why did pistols work reliably in the USSR? Because there was the only cartridge that was the same in shape and size for all plants.

        And what about 9x19 today? On the website of ammunition collectors www.municion.org which bullets in this caliber are not weighing from 90 grains (not grams) to 158 grains. With such a variety, shops with rebuilding work more reliably, where cartridges are always fed uniformly onto the ramp.

        That is, in addition to the reliability problem of the store itself, there is the problem of the omnivorous pistol. The gun must shoot reliably by any cartridges.
        1. 0
          April 16 2019 17: 12
          To evaluate the merits of one store’s design against another in isolation from the problem of omnivorousness is like evaluating the merits of a cubic crystal horse in a vacuum against a spherical crystal horse in a vacuum.

          Yes
  8. +4
    April 15 2019 22: 37
    The gun Beretta M9A3 is a further development of the model Beretta M.9 / M-92FS ... hi
  9. 0
    April 16 2019 11: 56
    Quality articles turned out, well-chosen material! Plus, definitely! wink
  10. 0
    April 16 2019 13: 37
    An interesting point, despite the fact that the US Army uses the standard NATO cartridge 9x19, there was no strict caliber / cartridge requirement for the pistol under the MHS program. Due to complaints from the military about the insufficient lethality of the 9x19 cartridge when using pistols of this caliber in combat zones such as Iraq and Afghanistan, manufacturers could offer weapons of other calibers, such as .40 S&W .45 ACP, .357 SIG, FN 5,7, 28 × XNUMX mm.

    Here I want to ask for the most part a rhetorical question: Was it worth it to go the same way twice to come to the same result?
    The .45 ACP cartridge was created as a result of combat experience gained by the American army during the Philippine-American War of 1899-1902, between the United States of America and the First Philippine Republic. Revolvers and pistols of the 38th caliber were not able to stop a decisive adversary, expertly wielding knives and using local drugs, attacking from a distance of several meters. Even after six precise hits in the chest, Moreau's warriors often managed to kill or seriously injure several Americans. But the old 45-caliber revolvers proved to be several times more effective under such conditions, successfully stopping the enemy, as a rule, from the first shot. In 1903, tests were conducted by Thompson and La Garda to find the most effective and optimal caliber for personal short-barreled weapons. In February 1904, specifications were presented for a new 45-caliber pistol cartridge. The .45 ACP cartridge (Automatic Colt Pistole - Colt's automatic pistol), also denoted 11,43 × 23, designed by Frankford Arsenal (Frankford Arsenal) together with John Browning, Colonel John Thompson and with the participation of Union Metallic Cartridge (Union Metallic Cartridge) was Selected for use by the United States Armed Forces. The .45 ACP cartridge was equipped with smokeless gunpowder and a shell bullet weighing 12,9 g. A sleeve with an annular groove without a protruding flange. Source: https://www.armoury-online.ru/articles/ammo/pistol-ammo/45ACP/

    And, for Beretta, the author of the next video said very well ...

    There is nothing to add. And, from myself, I’ll say there is no reason not to love her, since I never owned Beretta. :-)

    In conclusion, I’ll also give a video of Berretta’s performance tests.
  11. 0
    23 October 2019 18: 24
    but the Americans believe. what to invest dibs in a secondary weapon. expensive for their budget. but agree with that. that it’s high time to get off Beretta. normally. eat candy and ..... Great review. Peace to your home.