Military Review

The court decided that a medal for participation in hostilities does not prove participation in them

173
The crew of the tug "Altai" is trying to get official recognition of their participation in hostilities in the Syrian Arab Republic. Thanks to the sailors of a tugboat in Syria, the aircraft carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov could operate. However, the crew of the military, who received the medals of the Ministry of Defense for the operation in the Middle East, have not yet been recognized as full-fledged war veterans. This fact caused a discussion.


The court decided that a medal for participation in hostilities does not prove participation in them


According to data published in the article "Merchant", A lawsuit filed by 49 of the crew of the Altai tug. Their complaint was initially Severomorsky District Court, and then the Murmansk Regional Court. Sailors refer to orders from both the Ministry of Defense and the higher command, as well as the directive of the General Staff and other documents, in their demand to recognize the crew of the rescue tugboat Altai as full-fledged combatants.

The peculiarity of the trial is that civilian personnel were involved in the operation of the Ministry of Defense: an administrative lawsuit was filed on his behalf.

The plaintiff business trip lasted from November 8 2016 of the year to January 6 2017. As a result of the operation, they were awarded the medals of the Ministry of Defense "Participant of the military operation in Syria." It is important that they were also given "crusts" of war veterans. But the benefits provided for veterans, they received only in a limited form. It was around this fact that the main discussion flared up.

In particular, the crew can now use the sanatorium vouchers in the presence of medical indicators, annual vacation can choose at a convenient time for them. Also without a queue or in priority order, they can buy a garden plot or install a home telephone.

Sailors expected to receive status according to paragraph 1 Art. 16 Veterans Act. According to this provision, they will be able to receive benefits in payment of utility bills, housing, medical and pension benefits, taxation, etc. In turn, the defendant's representative opposed meeting this requirement.

The crew, on the basis of the documents at its disposal, argued that without his participation, the normal functioning of the “Admiral Kuznetsov” would have been impossible. The tug ensured the combat stability of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser, helped him carry out maneuvers and held them in battle order.

Claims were rejected. The court of first instance, in its refusal, ruled that the medal to the “Participant of the military operation in Syria” does not prove the fact of direct participation in hostilities. The very fact of being on the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic also does not confirm this. And the right to the status of a full-fledged veteran and the attendant benefits are only those who have confirmed their personal participation in hostilities, and not those who provided them.

Only two of the plaintiffs decided to appeal to the decision of the Severomorsk court to a higher court. However, there their claims were rejected.

During the period of the operation in Syria with the participation of the heavy aircraft carrier “Admiral Kuznetsov”, the Russian fleet for the first time in its stories carried out combat use of deck fighters Su-33 and MiG-29K. Two aircraft were lost due to technical problems. After the campaign was completed, the aircraft carrier went to Severomorsk, where he got up for major repairs and upgrades.
Photos used:
Press Service of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
173 comments
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  1. Observer2014
    Observer2014 April 6 2019 13: 28
    -27
    However, the military personnel of the crew, who received medals from the Ministry of Defense for the operation in the Middle East, are still not recognized as full-fledged combat veterans
    . But is Putin generally aware of this event? belay : I think now will be in the know repeat
    1. Andrey Chistyakov
      Andrey Chistyakov April 6 2019 13: 38
      +23
      Quote: Observer2014
      However, the military personnel of the crew, who received medals from the Ministry of Defense for the operation in the Middle East, are still not recognized as full-fledged combat veterans
      . But is Putin generally aware of this event? ::: I think it will now be in the know repeat

      "He lies with this name
      He stands up with this name "
      Not about you?
      1. 210ox
        210ox April 6 2019 13: 43
        +36
        Vaguely reminded of a long time ago .. "We didn't send you there ..".
        1. Andrey Chistyakov
          Andrey Chistyakov April 6 2019 13: 45
          -5
          Quote: 210ox
          Vaguely reminded of a long time ago .. "We didn't send you there ..".

          So answered in the military enlistment offices, and not in court.
          1. 210ox
            210ox April 6 2019 13: 48
            +28
            This was the answer not only in military registration and enlistment offices, but also in "public places", when people (Afghans, Chernobyl victims) went to get benefits ... Although I admit that the law requires some kind of confirmation, in this case.
            1. Andrey Chistyakov
              Andrey Chistyakov April 6 2019 13: 51
              -2
              Quote: 210ox
              This was the answer not only in military registration and enlistment offices, but also in "public places", when people (Afghans, Chernobyl victims) went to get benefits ... Although I admit that the law requires some kind of confirmation, in this case.

              I will not argue about the Chernobyl victims.
              1. Shurik70
                Shurik70 April 7 2019 20: 55
                +1
                Strange court decision.
                Tug - military. Although not everyone there has ranks in the carriage, the Ministry of Defense pays salaries to everyone. It decided to give out the crusts of veterans - which means it must provide benefits that rely on these crusts.
                If someone decided that the awards were given undeservedly - the claims should be to those who signed the crusts, and not to those who received them.
          2. AlexVas44
            AlexVas44 April 6 2019 14: 27
            +6
            No matter how (in court) they answer, it still sounds - we did not send you there. But in general, of course, it does not sound logical - if you, for example, a cook or a tailor, you provide combat work, but do not risk it ...
            You wouldn’t go to the soldiers, Vanya.
            In the Red Army bayonets, tea there.
            The Bolsheviks will manage without you.
            1. sabakina
              sabakina April 6 2019 16: 41
              +2
              Quote: AlexVas44
              You wouldn’t go to the soldiers, Vanya.
              In the Red Army bayonets, tea there.
              The Bolsheviks will manage without you.
              Yes, the situation is interesting ... It's like with the northern convoys. Especially with PQ-17 ... Cook she is the cook ... I wonder how long we will ...
            2. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa April 6 2019 17: 01
              +26
              Quote: AlexVas44
              if you are, for example, a cook or a tailor, then you provide combat work, but you do not risk ...

              Namesake, in this regard, the Yankees have very clearly distributed the participants. Those who were part of the military formations that took part in the database receive the corresponding sign, but without the letter "V" on it. Those who used weapons and shot at them have the right to wear such a sign with the letter "V" - which means "Victoria"! (like - "winner"). And they are very scrupulous about such things. Everyone remembers how because the US Air Force GENERAL illegally attached such an insignia, and the press caught him in this - he shot himself, washing away the shame with blood!
              So, being in the database zone does not mean taking part in them. And rightly so, in my humble opinion. AHA.
              1. 210ox
                210ox April 6 2019 19: 26
                +4
                Although if we consider this issue without going into the articles of the law, conscience and morality ... After all, "a medal for a battle, a medal for labor is poured from one metal ..."
                1. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa April 6 2019 20: 30
                  +10
                  Quote: 210ox
                  "a medal for a battle, a medal for labor is poured from one metal ..."

                  The poet said correctly! good
                  However, when it comes to "benefits", they say: - "What regiment did you serve in?" and, where you were "wounded a little while defending Leningrad" ... (c).
                  For the state, when it comes to "material goods", it is very difficult to part with "plundered" ... Although we all pay taxes regularly! bully
            3. Lars971a
              Lars971a April 6 2019 17: 25
              +1
              provide combat work, but do not risk ...
              And where is this line .. at risk or not at risk ......................
            4. Blackgrifon
              Blackgrifon April 7 2019 15: 27
              +4
              Quote: AlexVas44
              No matter how (in court) they answer, it still sounds - we did not send you there.

              Right and refused. It is one thing to risk your life at the forefront, and it’s another thing to carry out daily duties on a business trip.
              What is the risk of the crew of the ship in a foreign trip, in a cat. He didn’t fire a single shot? And how can one put on one step a sailor, a cat. For 30 days something served the equipment, and a carrier-based pilot / carrier aviation or a fighter, cat. in the desert for two people 30-60 kg. drags under mines drags ?!
        2. Maz
          Maz April 6 2019 13: 55
          +11
          And if they were drowned there, or they ran into a mine, or would the plane fall in tow? Court decisions are strange
          1. 210ox
            210ox April 6 2019 14: 03
            +7
            Here you can understand both sides ... But there is a letter of the law and the court understandably accepted it .. My mother was not recognized as a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, although they, young men and women of pre-conscription age, participated in the fall of 1943 on road works during the operation "Suvorov"
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A April 6 2019 14: 40
              0
              Quote: 210ox
              Here you can understand both sides ... But there is a letter of the law and the court understandably accepted it .. My mother was not recognized as a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, although they, young men and women of pre-conscription age, participated in the fall of 1943 on road works during the operation "Suvorov"


              One of my grandfathers went through the whole war.
              But the veteran was given to him only in the late 80s.
              Since he was listed in the units of the regular army.
              It turns out it was during the war
              1. serg.shishkov2015
                serg.shishkov2015 April 6 2019 15: 17
                +6
                And about the teenagers who cleaned the liberated territories from GPs they remembered 70 years after the Victory! they, having received minimal training, carried out a total cleansing of our land freed from the Nazis, primarily farmland
              2. Leading
                Leading April 6 2019 15: 19
                +2
                What kind of "regular army"? This does not appear on the list of armies.
                1. 210ox
                  210ox April 6 2019 17: 22
                  +1
                  There is the concept of "active army" .. Regular is something generalizing. As well as irregular (that is, partisans). According to M.I.Kutuzov ..
                2. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A April 6 2019 21: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Lead
                  What kind of "regular army"? This does not appear on the list of armies.

                  I myself do not really understand.
                  But grandfather was drafted into the army before the war.
                  And he went through the whole war.
                  He really fought. and he was injured.
                  But he was not a veteran of more than 40 years.
                  Only in the late 80s he was issued a veteran certificate.
            2. New Year day
              New Year day April 6 2019 15: 18
              +4
              Quote: 210ox
              . But there is a letter of law

              then the law is not right. You can’t be half pregnant! It turns out there is a medal, but it is not valid. Paradox
              1. Lara Croft
                Lara Croft April 6 2019 16: 15
                +4
                Quote: Silvestr
                Quote: 210ox
                . But there is a letter of law

                then the law is not right. You can’t be half pregnant! It turns out there is a medal, but it is not valid. Paradox

                The law seems to be clearly spelled out who is hu ....
                Article 3 Federal Law "On Veterans" of 12.01.1995 N 5-FZ
                http://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_5490/815edc9896435be7118ac0d2bfccfcdc4caea94a/
                1. military pensioner
                  military pensioner April 6 2019 19: 23
                  -1
                  As the famous saying goes
              2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Maz
              Maz April 6 2019 16: 48
              +1
              Quote: 210ox
              Here you can understand both sides ... But there is a letter of the law and the court understandably accepted it .. My mother was not recognized as a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, although they, young men and women of pre-conscription age, participated in the fall of 1943 on road works during the operation "Suvorov"

              my dad was recognized, he brought a certificate that he had been working as a shepherd on the collective farm for seven years
          2. orionvitt
            orionvitt April 6 2019 14: 49
            +4
            Quote: Maz
            And if they were drowned there, or they ran into a mine,

            "If" doesn't count. The crews of planes that flew to bomb Afghanistan from airfields on Soviet territory are also not considered participants in hostilities, although they performed specific combat missions, with all the ensuing risks.
            1. boss
              boss April 6 2019 17: 31
              +2
              and the dead crew of the radar plane is also "non-combat", eh?
              he also did not bomb, did not shoot, but assisted. Following your logic, when did this "if" count after being shot down? or also does not count?
              and a crashed plane with a choir?
              Did they fly without realizing that they are flying into the arena of hostilities?
              even the service personnel of the khmeimim get hit by drones, but they personally do not fire back, they also "do not count"?
              and the staff and the military who died during take-off (landing) at the airfield, hheimim where to take them?
              In my opinion, all professions are needed and important there, and each has its own role, each has one life that he risks.
              1. orionvitt
                orionvitt April 7 2019 00: 56
                +4
                Those who died during the execution are one thing, and the participant in the hostilities is another. One and a half years urgent, or two years for officers, in reconnaissance, somewhere in Afghanistan, or in Chechnya, under bullets, this is participation. Pilots performing combat missions, this is participation. And everything else is assistance. The risk factor is different. To spend a month in a zone of conditional military operations, and then beat yourself in the chest, it is simply indecent.
              2. Dmitry Bolotsky
                Dmitry Bolotsky April 7 2019 09: 11
                0
                I don’t understand who and why is minus you. The right questions and the answer to them is the same - of course, all these people are participants in the hostilities.
                By the way, my friend, the commander of the Tu-154, back in the USSR, having passed several ships, achieved the title of "combatant" for 4 flights to Afghanistan. The board was Aeroflot and absolutely civilian.
                As for the tug crew. Did they go on a picnic? To drink beer at a neighboring site in the country house to a neighbor? The cynicism of the decision of the powers that be is just off scale. Look at the list of awards of the accountant of our army Shevtsova on Wiki and it will immediately become clear who today, judging by the awards, is standing on the defense of our country with her breasts.
                1. Archivist Vasya
                  Archivist Vasya April 8 2019 12: 20
                  0
                  I understand why the minus. He collected everything in a mess ...
                  Regarding the tugboat, what did they do so heroic? We worked with a battleship under normal conditions, in the same way, in its place there could be a container ship or a tanker from which not an airplane, but a poorly fixed container could fall onto the tug ... This is just work, with risk, of course, but no more. And the fact that some are writing nonsense about "if they had sunk, they were blown up by a mine ..." Yeah, ISIS already has a fleet, of course.
                  And at the expense of the accountant’s awards or bureaucrats of some kind - alas, today in our country more and more often they distribute awards to those who, in principle, do not deserve it. They work in high positions and think - and let me give myself a reward - how much I stole (a), oh I earned (a)!
          3. sir_obs
            sir_obs April 6 2019 14: 51
            +5
            Court decisions are strange


            The court has always been governed by law. And if there is no legal basis, then everything else is on the side. If the presence of a medal by deacon is not a reason, then you can’t prove anything. So you need to look for another document that this foundation provides.

            When the prosecutor’s office collected material after the explosion of a boat at our brigade, they simply took, for example, a gas analyzer and instructions for it, and based on it interrogated those involved. How did you take the measurements, how often and where did you record the testimony. And they did not care deeply when they answered that it was customary for us to do this and that. No one cares how it is accepted, it should be, as prescribed by law.

            For this, lawyers are needed to understand these subtleties.
            De facto and de jure do not always coincide and almost always de jure dominates de facto. You should never forget about it, I’ve been convinced more than once.
          4. New Year day
            New Year day April 6 2019 15: 16
            +2
            Quote: Maz
            And if they were drowned there, or they ran into a mine, or would the plane fall in tow?

            then would be awarded ... posthumously ... maybe
          5. Boomandroid
            Boomandroid April 6 2019 17: 45
            +5
            Quote: Maz
            And if they were drowned there, or they ran into a mine, or would the plane fall in tow? Court decisions are strange

            Well, let’s do it, they are civilian personnel ... They (or their company was offered a contract by MO from point A to point B and vice versa, I don’t think that there was paid a little, besides this, they partially received benefits, this is as always with all people, got one, but I want more and more! There are more worthy people who should receive such benefits!
        3. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. April 6 2019 13: 56
          +3
          My friend flew to Afghanistan as part of the An-12 crew. Repeatedly flew. But he was based in the Union and was not recognized as a participant.
          1. kit88
            kit88 April 6 2019 14: 49
            +12
            The federal law
            “On the status of combatants”
            Article 1. Participants in hostilities.
            The combatants are:
            ...
            f) military personnel who flew from the territory of the USSR to combat missions to Afghanistan during the period of military operations there;
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. April 6 2019 15: 30
              0
              Military personnel. My friend is a GA pilot.
        4. Greg Miller
          Greg Miller April 6 2019 23: 45
          -1
          "Bullets whistled over our heads ...."
      2. aws4
        aws4 April 7 2019 04: 28
        0
        yes beautifully Observer 2014 waved straight professionally laughing
    2. Kontrliber
      Kontrliber April 6 2019 13: 55
      -11
      Quote: Observer2014
      But is Putin generally aware of this event? belay: I think it will now be in the know

      After your comment will definitely be in the "course" ...)))))
      Avatar would be changed .. Annoyingly terribly hi
      Turchinov for example))))
    3. Flyer_64
      Flyer_64 April 6 2019 19: 57
      +2
      Quote: Observer2014
      But is Putin generally aware of this event?

      Actually, he knows everything. The crew of the tug was lucky and got medals. And since 2008, there is a category of servicemen of the MA of the Navy who participated in the events of 8 years, received awards from the supreme, but did not receive any recognition or crusts for them, either through a direct appeal to the supreme, or through the courts. As a personnel officer said: "It's a lot of money!" Big money isn't for everyone.
    4. aws4
      aws4 April 7 2019 04: 27
      +1
      and Putin is so young and black September ahead
    5. d1975
      d1975 April 8 2019 09: 33
      0
      Of course, I don’t know if the country is controlled manually! And only comrades Solovyov and Kiselyov will say the opposite from the blue screen. The disgrace is complete. And this is not only in the army (((
  2. evgic
    evgic April 6 2019 13: 30
    +2
    Well, FIG knows. If you look from the point of view of the letter of the law, then the court is probably right. And honestly not
    1. Solomon Kane
      Solomon Kane April 6 2019 13: 37
      +6
      Then the court will cancel the awards and these awards ..... on civilian ships went under German fire .... am
    2. PN
      PN April 6 2019 13: 40
      +13
      You can’t get a conscience. If so, then any oilman will say: I did fuel oil and solarium, without which the cruiser would not have taken place. They, too, for the award and the title of war veteran? Uh, no, as for me, if I didn’t hold a weapon in my hands, then it’s not a war veteran. It was their job for which they receive money.
      1. Vol4ara
        Vol4ara April 6 2019 13: 46
        +14
        Quote: PN
        You can’t get a conscience. If so, then any oilman will say: I did fuel oil and solarium, without which the cruiser would not have taken place. They, too, for the award and the title of war veteran? Uh, no, as for me, if I didn’t hold a weapon in my hands, then it’s not a war veteran. It was their job for which they receive money.

        That is, the mechanic who serves the boilers or turbines on the forge and does not hold weapons is not a participant in the hostilities? The oilman made the oilman at home, and he towed the tug of Kuzyu off the coast of Syria, and the situation there, when the Americans fired volleys with tomahawks in Syria, was th, in which case the tug could capture the very same thing as the rest of the fleet
        1. t-4
          t-4 April 6 2019 14: 16
          +13
          Quote: Vol4ara
          That is, the mechanic who serves the boilers or turbines on the forge and does not hold weapons is not a participant in the hostilities?

          Yes, there are 10 times more such posts than those who go with an assault rifle. A clerk at headquarters at Hmeimim airbase is a war veteran? And the chief drill participant? They also did not hold weapons in their hands.
          Okay, what about combat control officers? The same with the cry of Ur from the trenches do not rise. OBATO, RTV ....
          There must be an order from the Moscow Region, where it is clearly and clearly written - who is the participant, and who is so, went for a walk.
          1. kit88
            kit88 April 6 2019 14: 45
            +6
            There is a federal law on the status of combatants.
            It clearly and clearly spelled out who is the participant and who is not. If a military unit took part in the events prescribed in this law (World War II, Afghanistan, Chechnya ...), then any "clerk" is a member of the database. The nuance is that the word Syria is absent in this law, so other points of this law come into play with an individual approach to each soldier.
            I understand that.
            1. Xscorpion
              Xscorpion April 6 2019 15: 28
              +4
              Syria has been in this law since 2014. The basis for issuing the Department of Internal Affairs is an extract from the order of the unit commander. The article is generally delusional. It is written that they received "crusts" that they enjoy the benefits of veterans. But not in full. This does not happen. They are not issued to those who did not participate. And if they were issued, then they are automatically veterans. Just as I understand it is that they did not register with the pension fund at their place of residence. Therefore, they do not receive benefits. On the part of the Ministry of Defense, everything is done, since with vacations and other things all right. The matter is in the "veterans" themselves, who cannot bring their ass to the pension fund.
              1. 210ox
                210ox April 6 2019 16: 50
                -4
                Well, few civilians will be able to. People are tearing up their vest ... And it’s not their fault that the state is doing this. There was a certain risk. I have already cited the example of our reconnaissance aircraft.
        2. 210ox
          210ox April 6 2019 14: 41
          +5
          That's it. Our scout plane was shot down .. They flew in the area where the ISIS did not exist at all. But there was Israel and NATO ..
          1. Darth Ragosinus
            Darth Ragosinus April 7 2019 18: 51
            -1
            I'd like to hear - which scum shot down our scout plane? Whose rocket killed our soldiers? Who is the pig that pressed the START button seeing on the radar that our large reconnaissance aircraft is flying ???? (and probably knowing that the missile will go to a larger target).
        3. PN
          PN April 6 2019 14: 47
          +5
          Here we can only exchange opinions, but they will remain opinions, and not the decision of the Supreme Court ...
        4. hydrox
          hydrox April 6 2019 16: 46
          +1
          Neither the tugboat nor the rest of the fleet received a single fragment, much less a direct hit, an explosion, a fire, a hole ..., an injury, a shell shock.
          In general, what is the conversation about?
          And the conversation was about a freebie, about rewarding the uninvolved ... the threat to life or even health was zero.
        5. Simargl
          Simargl April 6 2019 18: 27
          +3
          Quote: Vol4ara
          That is, the mechanic who serves the boilers or turbines on the forge and does not hold weapons is not a participant in the hostilities?
          While Kuzya is on the roadstead or walking and frightening the enemy, he is a participant in the military operation. As soon as he starts sending planes for military operations - he is a participant in the hostilities.
          Interestingly, but the crews of the bulk carriers that carried the equipment should also be indignant?
        6. Darth Ragosinus
          Darth Ragosinus April 7 2019 17: 41
          +1
          Yankees on a kuzhe volley gave ??? on a kuzhe now victims all ???
      2. 210ox
        210ox April 6 2019 13: 51
        +8
        I would clarify about the veteran and the participant. Here is the participant in the hostilities, yes, he had to hold weapons in his hands. With veterans, everything is more complicated.
        1. san4es
          san4es April 6 2019 14: 45
          +3
          Quote: 210ox
          ... With veterans everything is more complicated.

          hi ...
          Federal Law of 12.01.1995 N 5-FZ (as amended on 29.07.2018) "On Veterans" (as amended and supplemented, entered into force on 01.01.2019)
          Article 3. Veterans of hostilities
          1. Veterans of hostilities include:
          ...................................
          ...................................
          7) persons sent to work to ensure the fulfillment of special tasks in the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic from September 30, 2015, who have completed the deadline established in the direction, or have been sent ahead of schedule for good reasons.
          (paragraph 7 is introduced by the Federal Law of 03.07.2016 N 256-ФЗ).

          http://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_5490/815edc9896435be7118ac0d2bfccfcdc4caea94a/

          Chapter I. General Provisions
          Article 1. Participants in hostilities.
          The combatants are:
          ........................
          .......................
          g) persons (including members of the flight crews of civil aviation aircraft flying to Afghanistan during the period of hostilities there), serving military units of the USSR Armed Forces and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, who were in other countries during the period of hostilities there, received in this regard, injuries, concussions or injuries, or awarded orders or medals of the USSR or the Russian Federation for participating in the provision of these military operations; ....... soldier

          https://www.yabloko.ru/Themes/Defence/law-status-1.html
      3. Rostislav
        Rostislav April 6 2019 14: 44
        +1
        Uh, no, as for me, if I didn’t hold a weapon in my hands, then it’s not a war veteran.

        How does a minder at Kuznetsov differ from them?
    3. Flooding
      Flooding April 6 2019 13: 53
      +6
      Quote: evgic
      Well, FIG knows. If you look from the point of view of the letter of the law, then the court is probably right. And honestly not

      And I see the exact opposite.
      There is a medal, there is a certifying document - formally, from the point of view of the law, they are war veterans.
      And in my conscience, in my humble opinion, it is impossible to equate participation on land and in the air, not to mention direct combat contact, with ensuring the operation of the ship. The threat to the sea, thank God, was reduced to zero.
  3. Solomon Kane
    Solomon Kane April 6 2019 13: 31
    -1

    It is impossible to say the place is a classic ...
  4. Mexican. 29
    Mexican. 29 April 6 2019 13: 35
    +4
    Unfortunately, law and justice have different concepts. Given the overregulation of our legal system, including conflicting laws and regulations, judges may be glad to satisfy these claims, but they are afraid of cancellation of decisions by higher courts on formal grounds ...
    1. Million
      Million April 6 2019 14: 22
      +7
      In today's Russia, the law is such a trifle that you don’t even want to talk about. The court said: did not participate, then did not participate!
      But the younger Jew Gazmanov sang a song, and immediately received a medal!
      "On April 2, 2018, Rodion Gazmanov was awarded a medal by the Russian Ministry of Defense for his participation in the military operation in Syria."
      1. boathouse
        boathouse April 6 2019 14: 43
        +2
        Jew Kobzon spoke in Afghanistan, Jew Rosenbaum too. For you "Jew", is it something important?
        1. Million
          Million April 6 2019 14: 51
          +9
          If only Kobzon would not speak there. The country's main voice could not refuse.
          The danger for artists in hot spots is greatly exaggerated, and the artists themselves
      2. kiril1246
        kiril1246 April 6 2019 19: 51
        +1
        Quote: Million
        Jew Gazmanov

        Now the Tatars became upset.
  5. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer April 6 2019 13: 36
    +9
    Quote: Observer2014
    But is Putin generally aware of this event?

    Here comes Barin ... Barin will judge us!
  6. eleronn
    eleronn April 6 2019 13: 43
    +5
    Nonsense! Those. Does the presence (for example) of a pension certificate do not mean that its owner is a pensioner?
    1. Million
      Million April 6 2019 14: 27
      +4
      It’s time to get used to it. The market economy and capitalism in the state. Although they paid money, it’s good
    2. JD1979
      JD1979 April 6 2019 18: 03
      +1
      Quote: eleronn
      Nonsense! Those. Does the presence (for example) of a pension certificate do not mean that its owner is a pensioner?

      You will be very surprised, but in your country the presence of a passport of a citizen of the Russian Federation does not mean at all that you are this very citizen))). Google on this topic, learn a lot of interesting things.
  7. Kontrliber
    Kontrliber April 6 2019 13: 51
    -5
    According to the data published in the Kommersant article, a lawsuit was filed by 49 crew members of the Altai tugboat. Their complaint

    And who advised them interesting .. What kind of "lawyers"! ? lol
  8. sir_obs
    sir_obs April 6 2019 13: 54
    +13
    Heh. I received my passport after being sent to the reserve. Accordingly, he was issued as a new one (I passed the previous one when I entered college) and was registered in it after a goal of two thousand. When I needed a passport I was bewildered by questions, but where were you in '91 and how do you prove that you are a Russian? But the Russian passport ... What have I been told. "The passport is not a reason to consider you a Russian, bring a certificate that you are a Russian." I sent a letter to the “guarantor” with a request to clarify who I am. Three weeks later, two identical citizens came to home. I described the situation to them, and the next day I no longer needed a certificate, I quickly issued my passport.
  9. Russobel
    Russobel April 6 2019 13: 55
    +7
    If a couple of months after the end of World War II, veterans would demand benefits, pah, but they could not think about it ...
    The ship was helped for two months, pah again ..., give a pittance!
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I went to help for the money!
    Do not judge strictly.
    1. 210ox
      210ox April 6 2019 14: 09
      +2
      Well, about pennies .. Yes, such a time, and life guidelines. After World War II, society was completely different ..
      1. Russobel
        Russobel April 6 2019 15: 25
        -1
        Yes, it’s not so.
        Eternal excuse:
        "Not we such, Life is such".
        Once we become WE again!
        1. hydrox
          hydrox April 6 2019 16: 54
          0
          But when you start to drive liberoids with famous rags, then immediately feel that WE have become, not! yes
      2. Doliva63
        Doliva63 April 6 2019 17: 17
        +2
        Quote: 210ox
        Well, about pennies .. Yes, such a time, and life guidelines. After World War II, society was completely different ..

        Ah, good society was! drinks Maybe there will be more.
    2. Alex Justice
      Alex Justice April 6 2019 16: 01
      0
      An unpleasant story. All because of the money. Shameful and not sailors.
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer April 6 2019 20: 01
        0
        They then worked their money and nerves
  10. Walking
    Walking April 6 2019 13: 56
    +1
    They did not participate directly in the battles, which means they were not participants in the hostilities. And it turns out that someone walks under bullets, while others do not shoot at sea.
  11. boathouse
    boathouse April 6 2019 14: 03
    +1
    And our artists who performed in Palmyra and also received departmental medals from the Moscow Region, are also considered full participants in the hostilities? But they had the opportunity to part with life (mines around, the real possibility of shelling by militants) was much higher than that of the tug crew.
    1. Graz
      Graz April 6 2019 15: 13
      +4
      and that from there correspondents the same Poddubny has been working for years and even I doubt that they are given something from the awards, he also goes to the front line constantly
  12. free
    free April 6 2019 14: 10
    +7
    Also, without priority or in priority order, they can buy garden plot or install a home telephone.

    The state poured out the bounties from the Ministry of Defense, much more. None of them know what to buy, and so you can skip the line, no one needs a home phone at all now.
  13. rayruav
    rayruav April 6 2019 14: 11
    +5
    it turns out that IAS are not participants, they just provide
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 April 6 2019 17: 21
      +2
      Quote: rayruav
      it turns out that IAS are not participants, they just provide

      In our country, intelligence (including special operations forces) refers to security along with chemical protection, for example laughing
  14. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt April 6 2019 14: 13
    +5
    When crossing the Dnieper River, crews of armored boats under fire crossed the river and threw troops. They were awarded orders and medals.
    Thanks to the tugboat team who evacuated the lost speedboats under fire.
    I see some kind of injustice here. It was a military campaign and there were all units at the sight of NATO. And the tugboat had no less determination than the cruiser. They have different tasks, but fate is one ...
    1. Altai
      Altai April 6 2019 19: 52
      -1
      What are you talking about, can you read more ???
    2. Archivist Vasya
      Archivist Vasya April 8 2019 12: 45
      0
      You have 2 different examples completely ...
      The injustice is that the crews of the tugs evacuating under fire did not reward the combat boats, but only declared thanks.
      And on the account of the tugboat case that helped Kuznetsov ... - who shot them there, huh? How much and what damage did our ships receive from NATO and ISIS? Just do not write about the moral impact (as much as almost **** ****), for this, giving veterans with all the benefits is too much. The participant’s medal was given and good. It's just that we also have porridge in the legislation ((
  15. Plague doctor
    Plague doctor April 6 2019 14: 16
    -5
    For the first time in its history, the Russian fleet carried out the combat use of carrier-based Su-33 and MiG-29K fighters. Two aircraft were lost due to technical problems.
    I did not know about this disgrace
    1. sir_obs
      sir_obs April 6 2019 14: 31
      +4
      I did not know about this disgrace


      In this case, you need to read how much the Americans lost while the formation of their aircraft carrier fleet was going on and still is. Including for technical reasons and in connection with the human factor. Otherwise, you will remain in the dark.
      1. Plague doctor
        Plague doctor April 6 2019 14: 35
        -8
        In the United States, this was dozens of years ago, plus when you consider that Russia has one and not quite large ship, on which aircraft are located, then it could have worked so that the planes did not fail.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 6 2019 14: 56
          +8
          Quote: Plague Doctor
          In the US, it was decades ago

          The United States regularly loses carrier-based aircraft. In 2018, 2 Hornets were lost in plane crashes. In October 2015, a Grumman E-2 Hawkeye early warning aircraft caught fire in one of the hangars aboard the American aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan at the US Navy base Yokosuka in Tokyo Bay. In 2011, the F / A-18C Hornet fighter-bomber exploded and burned on a catapult while attempting to take off from the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier John S. Stennis. And so on and so forth ...
          Quote: The Plague Doctor
          Russia has one and not large enough ship on which the aircraft are located, then it would have been possible to work hard so that the planes would not fail.

          Yeah. But for this, it is not necessary to send a ship to the BS with a crew that has not received the necessary training and has not fully mastered MiG-29KR / KUBR
    2. 210ox
      210ox April 6 2019 14: 34
      +2
      Actually, it’s strange that you didn’t know .. There was so much noise in the media .. This is the result of the timelessness of the last quarter of centuries ... Neither updating, nor modernization, nor training of the flight crew .. They began to scratch the repa only after that.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 6 2019 14: 58
        +4
        Quote: 210ox
        then the result of the timelessness of the last quarter century ...

        No, this is the result of the brawl of the top leadership of the country that sent the ship, which has not recovered its combat effectiveness after repair.
    3. rayruav
      rayruav April 6 2019 16: 36
      +1
      Sorry, maybe I don’t know if these machines delivered combat attacks? apparently I missed something
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 6 2019 17: 05
        +1
        Caused, of course, how else
        1. rayruav
          rayruav April 6 2019 17: 13
          +1
          Sorry, Andrei is not aware of what munitions of Tutun, the news just arrived that our decks will finally be able to strike on the ground, you tell the naval connoisseur
  16. ASASHOKA
    ASASHOKA April 6 2019 14: 26
    +7
    The judge must be sent there). What will he call himself after) and what status will he define? Apparently he compared the support team (tugboat) with those who flew there (to Syria) to sing, dance, on an excursion with journalists ... - they also received medals from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ... Yes, and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation also thought of it ... Not killed, not injured - that means they were not present in difficult places (and who in the war divides places into difficult and not difficult ...). I remember correctly - "... we didn't send you there ..." and "who are you in general?"
  17. orionvitt
    orionvitt April 6 2019 14: 36
    -3
    privileges are only those who have confirmed their personal participation in hostilities, and not those who provided them.
    Right. And tomorrow, even those that would not only provide, but simply approve of the hostilities, will demand benefits. And they will consider this a weighty argument.
  18. Kontrliber
    Kontrliber April 6 2019 14: 39
    -4
    The Altai tugboat crew is trying to obtain official recognition of its participation in hostilities in the Syrian Arab Republic.

    Well, if he does, then what ..? The Political Administration of the Army should take into account and filter such "goods" .. And if something happens, drown nafig ... bully
    1. kitt409
      kitt409 April 6 2019 22: 49
      0
      Will you drown? am
  19. boathouse
    boathouse April 6 2019 14: 40
    0
    RBC claims that these were civilian sailors. Who cares, go to the RBC website. There, this information appeared four hours earlier than at VO.
    1. pv1005
      pv1005 April 7 2019 16: 55
      0
      Quote: varadero
      RBC claims that these were civilian sailors. Who cares, go to the RBC website. There, this information appeared four hours earlier than at VO.

      Yes, sailors are the civilian crew of the tugboat of the Navy. This annoys many people that they are civilians.
  20. bald
    bald April 6 2019 14: 44
    +6
    All of this is unfair. They were equally at risk and fulfilled their duties. Staff rats have not yet been transferred to Russia.
  21. Sergey49
    Sergey49 April 6 2019 14: 55
    +3
    In Russia, the court is the antithesis of justice.
  22. jeka424
    jeka424 April 6 2019 14: 58
    +4
    Better deputies will give the order
  23. evgen1221
    evgen1221 April 6 2019 15: 07
    -3
    The situation is controversial and ambiguous, but MO is right, you are a participant in the hands, no, you paid a lot of money for the risk and part of the benefits were given. And what they require is a fly, we plowed and give us everything, any citizen of the Russian Federation pays taxes for the war go-so are we all combatants? The guys wanted more benefits simply.
    1. goblin xnumx
      goblin xnumx April 7 2019 22: 16
      0
      I will say this - in Russia, firefighters are also divided into linear and civilian and civilian (workers) do not have an early pension, one and a half to two times lower than the salary, several times less than the bonus (on holidays and year-end), they are not awarded medals for length of service and accordingly, not to see the veteran of labor as ears - and the fire is burning alike ... - and moreover: - the beginners and drivers are now NOT participants in the fire extinguishing, that's how :) and they do not receive a surcharge for participating in extinguishing fires, so that the nachkar Genin previously sits for what he shouldn't have done ...
  24. Graz
    Graz April 6 2019 15: 08
    +6
    Well, if medals and crusts have been issued, then the benefits are granted, if not, then cancel the previously issued, otherwise it’s some kind of mess
  25. for
    for April 6 2019 15: 28
    0
    The presence of a medal should cross out all laws. Or the medal is now an unnecessary trinket.
    1. boathouse
      boathouse April 6 2019 15: 59
      0
      A medal, like any other award, must have a statute. And, if those awarded this medal should have the right to some privileges, etc., then this should be reflected in the statute. As I understand it, the MO medals are departmental awards, not state ones.
      1. boathouse
        boathouse April 6 2019 18: 17
        -1
        And the laws can not be "crossed out", that is why they are LAWS. Otherwise, what is the point in them, in laws?
  26. faterdom
    faterdom April 6 2019 16: 03
    +2
    The judge works with the Veterans Law. And what is not there - he cannot add on his own, even if you show him the video how you are firing at the barmaley.
    For this there are the so-called "people's elected representatives", that is, legislators. And profile ministries (defense in particular) to make legislative proposals. This is how it works. In the Anoglo-Saxon legal tradition - case law: once the court decided after digging - then we blow according to the precedent.
    Sometimes it takes about 25 years to settle the issue, as with Tajikistan. Sometimes more, as with Egypt and Angola.
  27. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa April 6 2019 16: 30
    +13
    I would like to say a few words about the level of maritime competence of the MO press service.
    The tug ensured the combat stability of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser, helped him carry out maneuvers and held them in battle order.

    In order:
    1. How the "tug" (!) Could provide the COMBAT RESISTANCE (?) Of the tavkr, if the "Combat stability" is the ability to RESIST combat damage and the impact of weapons by the enemy! Is the tug "breast-protecting the board" of an aircraft carrier cruiser !? - NONSENS!
    2. Helped him to maneuver ... Maybe. When setting the barrels and when holding the stern on the course when making flights with a stop. (This is when on the foot the tug gets on baktof and keeps the ship on the aircraft landing course). But further!
    3. ... held in FIGHT ORDER (!) - bullshit, because order of battle is the relative position of TACTICAL GROUPS of ships relative to each other and the main goal ... And how could a tug (?) hold the Tavkr if it was separated from it in the TG ???
    That's how the blah blah shows do!
    BUT!
    1. san4es
      san4es April 6 2019 16: 59
      0
      Quote: BoA KAA
      ... Helped him to maneuver ... Perhaps.

      hi ... And he insured.
      Before surgery in the SAA
      The tugboat Nikolay Chiker came to the aid of the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft-carrying cruiser. During the exercises, the heavy aircraft carrier missile cruiser lost its course in the Bay of Biscay, and it became necessary to tow it.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa April 6 2019 20: 18
        +2
        Quote: san4es
        During training heavy aircraft carrier missile the cruiser lost speed in the Bay of Biscay, and it became necessary to take it in tow.

        Dear Colleague
        1. Thank you for the video...
        2. The Bay of Biscay was not a "war zone".
        3. In the days of my youth, our tugboat was always on duty there, on an ongoing basis.
        So, I only commented on the fact that the press service gave birth in its own way about the participation of the Security Council crew in "hostilities."
        Sincerely, Boa. drinks
        P / S. By the way, the abbreviation TAVKR was decoded incorrectly: there is nothing "rocket" in it, this is not 1144 !!! yes
        1. san4es
          san4es April 6 2019 21: 08
          0
          repeat .... Yes, with a quote to the video, I went out of carelessness. did not fix - sorry hi
          ... And the birth of press services and any press in general is now such fun now ... What are the mistakes in TV reports from the same "Zvezda" (probably "Aldebaran") winked
          ... And here is the question: How is the transfer of a tugboat (or other support vessels) to the database zone classified as part of a group or paired with a warship (via the same English Channel or the constantly storming Biscay), in order to provide?
          ... Regards, Sanya drinks
          P / S ... And with "Chiker", maybe it was a study.
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa April 7 2019 00: 23
            +1
            Quote: san4es
            How is the transfer of a tug (or other support vessels) to a DB area, as a group or in a pair with a warship (via the English Channel or constantly storming Biscay), in order to ensure?

            The question is fair. It all depends on the combat order for the "campaign". If it has "the provision of the combat service of the TAVKR, then there should be no questions." Moreover, the payment will be completely different. But with the payment, the Ministry of Defense, as always, squeezes, saving on monetary allowances for everyone who is not in the "trench" ...
            It seems to me that everything rests on this today.
            IMHO.
            1. san4es
              san4es April 7 2019 10: 30
              +1
              fellow _ Good morning Boa
              150% - with payments, surcharges, compensations, benefits, pensions, etc., all the bodies involved in them are huddled. And to compensate for all business travelers for the cordon, payment for utilities and gas supply, for the period of absence - they are OBLIGED without any awards and "confessions". hi
              1. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa April 7 2019 10: 34
                +1
                Quote: san4es
                Good morning Boa

                And you have a nice day! drinks fellow
                1. san4es
                  san4es April 7 2019 10: 42
                  0
                  good ... To me, on "You" pzhl-hundred - it's more comfortable drinks
  28. Russian Bear_2
    Russian Bear_2 April 6 2019 17: 13
    0
    In a madhouse, damn it.
  29. mag nit
    mag nit April 6 2019 17: 29
    0
    But what about Serdyukov? He is a participant in the hostilities in the conflict with Georgia.
  30. Professor
    Professor April 6 2019 17: 35
    +4
    Sailors expected to receive status according to paragraph 1 Art. 16 Veterans Act. According to this provision, they will be able to get privileges payment of utility bills, housing, medical and pension benefits, taxation, etc. In turn, the defendant's representative opposed meeting this requirement.

    Privileges. How prosaic everything is. What about patriotism? We have no concept of "veteran" and, accordingly, benefits for veterans. Everyone fights when necessary. Benefits for disabled people only. And both the military and the civilian.
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter April 6 2019 17: 59
      +1
      Benefits are our everything! Because they pleasantly brighten up underpayments on salaries.
      But forgive me if you went to serve in the Russian Navy for benefits !!!
      That is nonsense! ...
      1. rayruav
        rayruav April 6 2019 19: 17
        +1
        you simply would have gone from Murmansk to Syria in tow without fighting, I would have looked at your pale appearance and pasta gait
  31. yasvet
    yasvet April 6 2019 17: 41
    -1
    [quoteBuxer provided] [/ quote]
    All according to the law: Art. 3 Federal Law of January 12.01.1995, 5 No. XNUMX-Federal Law
    "Persons who were involved in servicing Soviet or Russian military units located on the territory of foreign states during the conduct of hostilities. These persons, in order to be considered veterans, should have been injured, wounded or contused. Citizens who have received orders and medals are also among the veterans. USSR or the medals of the Russian Federation, issued in connection with participation in the provision of hostilities. "

    [quotewere awarded medals of the Ministry of Defense to the “participant in the military operation in Syria”] [/ quote]
    departmental award .....

    According to Art. 3 Federal Law of January 12.01.1995, 5 No. XNUMX-Federal Law
    "What is required for veterans of military operations who served military units
    The list of social benefits for veterans serving the Soviet and Russian military units includes:

    Retention of the right to medical care in institutions where a citizen was served until retirement.
    Extraordinary medical care.
    The pre-emptive right to provide vouchers to sanatorium-resort organizations in the presence of appropriate medical indications.
    Preemptive right to enter summer, horticultural and vegetable garden organizations.
    Extraordinary installation of an apartment phone.
    An annual vacation at a convenient time and the right to a 35-day vacation without pay.
    Additional professional education and vocational training at the expense of the employer.
    The provision of housing.
    Funeral services. "

    Good or bad, but such is the law.
  32. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter April 6 2019 17: 50
    -1
    Enough of a couple of paragraphs. Well, what can I say?! ... We are not ideological sailors. Not ideological. For loot people go to the seas. And if tomorrow is a war?! .. Who will pay you the odds and other allowances? Court in The Hague or something.?! .
    Moreman and so quite not stupidly receive (as far as I know).
    For the submarine fleet, we are not talking. There is a separate conversation.
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter April 6 2019 18: 17
      +2
      Although on the other hand gentlemen. How to say. The tug was at the scene of the fighting ?! It was. Could it (theoretically) shy away from him ?! Could. So a combatant. Who does not agree with me ?!
  33. HMR333
    HMR333 April 6 2019 18: 08
    0
    Well, they are a tugboat which shore? or were the captain with the sailors on the aircraft carrier cruiser also on the shore? here the formulations are not rolled by the participant means the participant and the infantry or the oars worked on the ship or the cook it does not matter everyone did their job! and only when the law on benefits will indicate that direct participation in the battle gives full benefits, then it will be possible to reject something but not so ....
  34. Bullfighter
    Bullfighter April 6 2019 18: 11
    0
    Of course, I apologize to the sailors. But besides the deck pilots, what kind of participation in the hostilities of Kuznetsov’s crew is there? What is the difference between this campaign in the absence of the enemy at sea and in the air from other campaigns?
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter April 6 2019 18: 20
      +2
      The pilot will never fly out and never land until he takes off and lands at the airport / ship.
      It's not '41 right now. Airplanes don't fly like that anymore.
      1. Bullfighter
        Bullfighter April 6 2019 18: 31
        +1
        For mechanics, mechanics, navigators, electricians and so on, aviation flights to Syria, how did that make the trip more dangerous than any exit to the sea? About the rest of the ships, generally keep quiet, what is their "participation in hostilities"?
    2. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter April 6 2019 18: 29
      +1
      It is distinguished by the fact that there is a war (real) there and they can really drown (in between) things, which is actually the whole difference. hi
      1. Bullfighter
        Bullfighter April 6 2019 19: 19
        +1
        Who forgive, can drown? Mythical terrorists at sea?
        1. Petrol cutter
          Petrol cutter April 6 2019 19: 21
          0
          And this is no longer the essence of the bureaucratic machine in fact.
          I also had to buy a fire minimum, although I do not deal with fire work on the order.
          1. Bullfighter
            Bullfighter April 6 2019 19: 27
            0
            The bureaucratic machine contradicts itself. Even if "being on the territory of the SAR" does not mean participation in hostilities, then how did the sailors become veterans of the BD, who were not even close to this territory, and even more so did not participate in anything "
            1. Petrol cutter
              Petrol cutter April 6 2019 19: 36
              +1
              Well, let’s say so, they provided (that is, supported) with their own forces the combat mission of the main forces directly involved in the conflict. I must say, that is still work! People tried, even quite likely, laid out one hundred percent. They are worthy of encouragement.
              1. Archivist Vasya
                Archivist Vasya April 8 2019 12: 59
                0
                So they were given a medal for participating in memory, so that they would know for posterity. BUT, perks? They also risked as sappers cleared Palmyra or as guarding humanitarian convoys (including military police) in the territory where only yesterday they were bearded? Not to mention pilots / helicopter pilots. Of course not.
    3. hump
      hump April 6 2019 20: 41
      0
      The contract would be signed at the time the task was completed and would receive WBD status
    4. kitt409
      kitt409 April 6 2019 22: 56
      0
      That is, the enemies gave them a certificate that they are absent and will not do anything, right?)
  35. Anatoly Anatoly
    Anatoly Anatoly April 6 2019 18: 24
    +1
    What nonsense ?? The status of a database veteran confirms the availability of an appropriate certificate. Certificates were issued to them, therefore, recognized by the veterans of the database.
  36. Darth Ragosinus
    Darth Ragosinus April 6 2019 19: 41
    -3
    ))))) in tow they thought that they type participated in the hostilities and get all nishtyaks for this))))))) for nishtyaks it is necessary to work on the ground at the forefront, rather than sail in the Mediterranean like kakesh.
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter April 6 2019 19: 49
      +2
      Here in this place I do not agree. The tug, and therefore his team, was assigned a combat mission. Tug and his team completed a combat mission? Or not?...
      Therefore, for me, a personally-strange debate ...
      1. Darth Ragosinus
        Darth Ragosinus April 6 2019 20: 06
        -1
        The fact is that the operation of this tugboat is in fact easier and safer than that of my classmate on a fishing trawler in the middle of the Atlantic. Honestly.
        1. Petrol cutter
          Petrol cutter April 6 2019 20: 14
          +1
          This is all understandable, but any exit to the sea of ​​a warship is combat. They do not go as civilians. As one friend of mine says, this is the specificity of the work. He did not come out just like that. From nothing to do. He was given the task of arriving there and there at such a time and doing the following ... And he is obliged to do this. Anyway.
          1. Darth Ragosinus
            Darth Ragosinus April 6 2019 20: 19
            +2
            Then they will call sailors from a tugboat - rear rats. Some on the front line crawl under the bullets (including dying) and others swim in tow in the sea near Kuzi. The Mediterranean sun, sea, resort, and combat nishtyaks can still be requested.
      2. hump
        hump April 6 2019 20: 39
        +1
        They were not military personnel, and this is the main thing from the conditions. I remember when terrorists from Chechnya entered Dagestan, the militia there fought a battle with them for several days and the result was not recognized
      3. Lapunevsky
        Lapunevsky April 7 2019 10: 22
        0
        Did the tug help repel an air attack with its anti-aircraft guns (if he has them at all)? Or fought off pirate boats with machine guns? Did the tug shoot at terrorists in Syria? He did what any civilian tug does for any civilian vessel. Here came back from Syria a ship that took part in the hostilities - let the calibers. He enters Sevastopol, he is met there by a tug. And leads to the pier. Is his crew now also a combatant, veterans? They also carried out a "combat mission", went to sea, and completed it.
  37. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 April 6 2019 20: 08
    +4
    The question is of course interesting) there is probably no final recipe
    ... I’ve been living for a long time and I can say that back in the late 60s and early 70s, veterans didn’t confuse which of them was a participant in the hostilities and who was a participant in the Great Patriotic War ... but after different Africa, Afghanistan and Chechnya something leveled out ... and it turns out that a member of the General Staff Commission who arrived for an inspection for 3-5 days and beyond the army headquarters either ... the participant in the hostilities to the utmost ...
    This is of course a legal incident ... you need to divide it again into database participants and just participants in the operation in ... for example, in Syria ...
    if with a weapon on the front line (or was wounded) for several days - a participant in the database ... if guarding the warehouse in the rear - a participant in the operation ... respectively, and privileges of the first category in full ... all the rest I can do on behalf of ... and on behalf of ...
  38. Flyer_64
    Flyer_64 April 6 2019 20: 18
    +3
    All this nonsense comes from the head. According to the estimates of financiers, there are many beneficiaries again. So customize the laws and orders that cut off part of the benefits. And the courts are already protecting the interests of the state, not the citizen. The law provides for civilians in Syria to ensure the fulfillment of special tasks in the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic, and in the regulation of the Ministry of Defense it states participation in hostilities (tasks). There is no question only of participation in hostilities. Just stupidly save the budget for yourself.
    1. silberwolf88
      silberwolf88 April 7 2019 01: 02
      +1
      but you must agree ... to fight at the forefront ... and cook borsch in the flight canteen ... well, it’s not comparable at all ... and it’s not about economy ... it’s simply not comparable in essence ... and there’s absolutely nothing to equal them ...
      1. Flyer_64
        Flyer_64 April 7 2019 21: 31
        0
        Quote: silberwolf88
        but agree

        I do not agree. My father fought in Afghanistan. Three business trips. In the third in Kunduz, a woman cook and two waitresses were killed during shelling of the airfield. The shell hit directly into their module. Where there is no clear front line there is everything under the gun of both civilian and military. Attempts to attack Khmeimim constantly, and not only military personnel there, but also state ones. civil servants of civil defense and civilian personnel of civil defense. Speaking of Tartus, they are silent, but they are also disturbed.
        And about the law on veterans. st3 Veterans of hostilities
        military personnel, including those transferred to the reserve (retirement), those liable for military service, conscripts and officers of the internal affairs bodies, national guard troops and state security bodies, employees of these bodies, employees of the USSR Ministry of Defense and employees of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, employees of institutions and bodies of the penal system, sent to other states by bodies of state power of the USSR, bodies of state power of the Russian Federation and taking part in hostilities in the performance of official duties in these states, and also taking part in accordance with decisions of government bodies of the Russian Federation in hostilities in the territory of the Russian Federation;
        n / a. 7 persons (meaning non-military citizens) who were sent to work to ensure the fulfillment of special tasks in the Syrian Arab Republic from September 30, 2015, who completed the deadline established in the direction or were sent ahead of schedule for good reasons.
        So the introduction of p / n7 deprived the civilians who visited Syria of the full social package distributed to p / p1. That is, the guaranteemen who perform the hot service in the parking lot at Khmeimim veterans, but with a cut social package, while the headquarters, rear and other military personnel located there, receive a full social package. Here it is our justice.
        1. silberwolf88
          silberwolf88 April 7 2019 22: 23
          0
          pathos please die ... I'm just talking about the general principle ... you go on the attack - a database member ... otherwise only a participant in the operation ...
  39. hump
    hump April 6 2019 20: 37
    0
    By law, only a soldier can be a veteran of military operations. If at the moment a contract were concluded with them, then they would receive WBD status.
  40. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet April 6 2019 20: 43
    -1
    Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
    Quote: Observer2014
    However, the military personnel of the crew, who received medals from the Ministry of Defense for the operation in the Middle East, are still not recognized as full-fledged combat veterans
    . But is Putin generally aware of this event? ::: I think it will now be in the know repeat

    "He lies with this name
    He stands up with this name "
    Not about you?



    The point here is that in our country manual control ...
  41. bone1
    bone1 April 6 2019 21: 03
    -2
    In the crachborons am
  42. for
    for April 6 2019 22: 13
    0
    Quote: varadero
    And the laws can not be "crossed out", that is why they are LAWS. Otherwise, what is the point in them, in laws?

    You can write by writing another.
  43. for
    for April 6 2019 22: 16
    +1
    Quote: varadero
    MoD medals are departmental awards, not state awards.

    Let the TRP badge then give, not a medal. Do not discount the rewards.
  44. APASUS
    APASUS April 6 2019 22: 26
    +1
    It is very similar that our state is becoming obsolete!
    The help of the LPR and the DPR, the assistance of Syria and the court decision on the expulsion of fighters and volunteers to Ukraine fit in one line. The assistance of Syria also looks rather strange from the legal side, although it has not yet been sent to Syria, but there are no less questions
    1. silberwolf88
      silberwolf88 April 7 2019 01: 11
      -4
      and your state ... well, that which is becoming obsolete ... is that ... us ??? ... england ??? ... or you are so straight over a fight ... stop comparing incomparable categories and distort ...
      if you want to talk about the DPR / LPR ... forward to the front line like Prilepin (he has the right ... BUT he doesn’t talk about the obsolete state) ... then there will be moral law ... and keep in mind that they are asking for consent in Syria (it's not like to Afghanistan and Chechnya on appeal) ... only voluntarily ...
      1. silberwolf88
        silberwolf88 April 7 2019 11: 46
        -4
        touched some cockerel))) ... minus this is also a medal)
  45. kuz363
    kuz363 April 7 2019 09: 03
    +1
    In a real war, Kuzya will also fight in tow with a tug?
    1. lelik613
      lelik613 April 7 2019 20: 16
      +3
      If the oars are not cut out, there is no way without a tugboat.
  46. AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 April 7 2019 09: 42
    +3
    Quote: Dmitry Bolotsky
    ... the list of awards of the accountant of our army Shevtsova will immediately become clear

    He looked, breathtaking: Medals "For participating in a military parade on Victory Day"; "Colonel General Dutov"; “For the return of the Crimea”; “65 years of the Kaluga region” (2009); well, etc.
  47. Lapunevsky
    Lapunevsky April 7 2019 10: 12
    -1
    So ... The operator of the post somewhere in the headquarters, which provided communication and data transfer from Russia to Syria and back - is he also a participant in the hostilities in Syria? Also a veteran? He also ensured the "combat stability" of the group in Syria. Yes, so to judge - that half of the Russian army provided "stability". And to everyone who was at least indirectly and directly involved - cooks, technicians, signalmen, staff officers and others, even those who flew there for one day, or even did not fly there - and from Russia they helped in some way on duty - all veterans Now?
  48. Fevralsk. Morev
    Fevralsk. Morev April 7 2019 15: 45
    -4
    The state is not a cash cow !!!! Where is your patriotism, military comrades? Why so petty?
    1. Lexa-149
      Lexa-149 April 8 2019 14: 30
      0
      This "not a cash cow" is milked by all sorts of "Tatupedas", Sechins, Millers, Rogozins, Chubais, Serdyukovs, Matvienko, etc. But for those who really work, and a drop does not fall. Here we must be fair. For what "services to the Fatherland" Matvienko was awarded ?!
  49. SOUL.
    SOUL. April 7 2019 18: 02
    +1
    But in general it’s correct. Did the crew go into battle or shoot back? And it turns out that someone with a machine gun in the trench shot the enemy equal to the one who stood up for his watch and went, ate Faberge, read a book, watched the TV set and so did the whole flight. And it turns out he fought on you !!! there is a badge combat infantryman badge.
    http://army.armor.kiev.ua/forma-2/us-znachki.shtml
    I especially like the wording from the author:
    Speaking in our opinion, this is the badge of an officer of a participant in the war, and not just a participant in the war, but who actually fought in the infantry unit, i.e. exposed to real, not imaginary risk of losing a life. It is no coincidence that this icon is so highly respected in the United States. Some other award (medal) can be obtained for merits without being exposed to particular danger, and this badge irrefutably indicates that its owner actually heard the whistle of bullets above his head.
  50. swan49
    swan49 April 7 2019 22: 34
    +3
    Of course, I am on the side of the crew, BUT "Dura lex, sed lex":

    Federal Law "On Veterans" dated 12.01.1995 N 5-ФЗ (latest revision)
    Article 3. Veterans of hostilities
    1. Veterans of hostilities include:
    7) persons who were sent for WORK (i.e., had an employment contract) to ensure the fulfillment of special tasks in the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic from September 30, 2015, who completed the deadline established in the direction or were sent ahead of schedule for good reasons.
    Article 16. Measures of social support for war veterans
    3. Veterans of hostilities from among the persons specified in subparagraphs 6 and 7 of paragraph 1 of Article 3 of this Federal Law shall be provided with the following measures of social support:
    1) in the presence of medical indications, preferential provision with permits to sanatorium-resort organizations;
    2) the priority right to purchase garden plots or garden plots, to install an apartment telephone;
    3) the use of annual leave at a convenient time for them.

    There are no questions to the judges. There are questions to the deputies of the State Duma.
    1. Sergeantpro
      Sergeantpro April 9 2019 12: 28
      0
      Well, the same thing worked in both Chechen campaigns. I personally know the officers who were in Kizlyar at the headquarters of the group and did not receive any length of service or benefits, who were then sent for "seniority" to the regions located in the "zone of conduct."