On the truck. Interesting niche in artillery

92
The artillery systems installed on the automobile chassis were initially perceived as “the choice of the poor man”, but their simplicity, mobility and relative cheapness more and more often attract the attention of the military seeking to balance their firepower.


The CAESAR howitzer was developed by Nexter with two basic requirements: firstly, the mass should not exceed 18 tons in order to be able to transport it in the C-130 military transport aircraft: secondly, it must be able to stop, shoot and shoot from a position in less than 100 seconds



Observations made during the conflict in Ukraine once again demonstrated the importance of choosing between towed and self-propelled artillery. Thus, the vulnerability of artillery batteries performing several fire missions from one position was again shown. The ability of an opponent to detect, locate, shoot and destroy, or at least seriously reduce the possibilities of battery support has been demonstrated more than once. The advantage of towed guns is a small mass, which simplifies their transfer, especially by airplanes and on the suspension of cargo helicopters. In most cases, they are also easier to maintain. The main limitation is that they should be towed by a tractor, as a rule, a tactical truck, in connection with which the time for preparation for shooting and removal from the position increases.

On the other hand, a self-propelled gun, having its own self-propelled chassis and, as a result, moving on the commands of the crew, can get a firing task even while driving, immediately stop. shoot back and then start moving again, often spending only a few minutes. These guns are also structurally complete systems with automated control, navigation, and ammunition on board and often automatic loading, which determines a high rate of fire. Self-propelled guns, as a rule, are heavier than towed counterparts and, moreover, until recently, they were mainly based on tracked chassis. Both of these features complicate the transportation of self-propelled units by air and limit their use where bridges and roads have a mass restriction.

Therefore, the dilemma that was reiterated in connection with the events in Ukraine, but in general has long been well known to everyone, is as follows: it is necessary to have fire support systems that would be mobile enough to quickly change position (so as not to become a victim of counter-battery fire) even in less developed infrastructural rural areas, and which at the same time could fulfill the whole range of fire missions. For some armies, the ability to transfer a military transport is also necessary. aviation for deployment anywhere in the world. In addition, it is desirable that the cost of such systems be within reasonable limits, as, indeed, operational reliability. As a result, the idea arose to “marry” the mobility of a tactical truck with howitzer firepower. In this case, the artillery unit is usually mounted on the rear loading platform, often with stops that fall to the ground and reduce the impact of the recoil impulse.

The ability to quickly move the truck chassis can significantly reduce the total weight, especially if the reservation is limited to the driver’s cab / settlement or is even missing. In this case, the platform is required to quickly take up a firing position, quickly shoot back, and then, to avoid return fire, quickly change position, using its advantage in mobility.

The CAESAR project manager at Nexter, which created one of the most successful "artillery systems on a truck," said: "The project’s ultimate goal was to create a system that could perform a fire task in 100 seconds: stop, load, guide, making multiple shots and removing from position. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that exceeding this time interval is fraught. A modern advanced enemy can, during this time, detect, determine the location of the firing gun and open fire on it. ”

Weak ballistic protection or lack thereof in self-propelled guns is a conscious decision that reflects the fact that towed guns also lack such protection, but they cannot independently change positions at such a speed. On the one hand, the combination of a mobile chassis with an installed cannon very much resembles a towed gun, which requires a tractor of one type or another for towing, but on the other hand, it’s still fundamentally, you can even say ideologically, different.

This new combination works well with the support of motorized infantry. However, it can be a disadvantage for light infantry, which will be deployed with the support of helicopters. In this case, the total weight of the truck / cannon system, at least in the medium 155-mm cannon segment, can exceed the capacity of many helicopters. Of course, this is not a sentence, as the developers have already demonstrated light tactical trucks with specially configured howitzers, usually 105 caliber mm. These systems can be transported on the suspension of heavy helicopters, such as the Boeing CH-47D / F Chinook and Sikorsky CH- 53E / K.

The advantages of the self-propelled artillery systems on the automobile chassis are so obvious that the military of an increasing number of countries show increased interest in them. In addition, to create such systems do not require too high technical level of the engineering school and rich design experience. As a result, a number of countries have developed their own localized versions of the truck / gun combination. This allows you to quickly and often cost-effectively increase the mobility of army artillery at lower financial costs.

Self-propelled artillery components

As a rule, the self-propelled unit of the type in question includes a ready truck chassis, a gun and a carriage, a stabilization system and a fire control system, which often includes an integrated subsystem of ground navigation and positioning. In some projects, automatic or semi-automatic loading is also added in order to reduce the number of calculations and increase the rate of fire for faster completion of the firing task and removal from the position.

Nexter developed the CAESAR howitzer in order to get a highly mobile artillery system that could be moved with the C-130 Hercules military transport aircraft anywhere in the world. After extended tests, it was adopted by the French army in order to replace not only towed 155-mm guns, but also self-propelled tracked platforms. In the French army, an artillery unit is installed on the chassis of a Renault Sherpa 5 6x6 truck, although there are options installed on the Mercedes-Benz UNIMOG 6x6 chassis. Although the cabin at the ACS is armored, the total weight does not exceed 18000 kg. This is consistent with the company's stated requirement to “determine the need for self-propelled artillery, which could be deployed by the expeditionary forces by air.”


155-mm towed gun TRF1, preparation for shooting

The artillery unit is an upgraded version of the 155-mm towed gun TRF1 with a barrel length 52 caliber. For firing at the rear of the unit, a large coulter is lowered hydraulically, with four rear wheels coming off the ground, which provides excellent platform stabilization. The installation has a built-in navigation and guidance system from either SAFRAN or Thales, which is connected to actuators. A Nexter spokesperson confirmed that “the inertial / GPS positioning system, digital fire control and mechanized loading allow the unit to launch six projectiles and withdraw from the position in less than 100 seconds.”

CAESAR is the most common artillery system in the world on a car chassis, bought by Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Indonesia, Thailand and of course France. She was tested in hostilities in Mali, Afghanistan and Iraq. Her CAESAR 2 version on the 8x8 chassis was adopted by Denmark.

Not only France alone maintains the market for self-propelled guns on the automobile chassis, several other countries have developed or are developing mobile artillery systems. For example, the Thai army, which has already bought six CAESAR howitzers, is completing the development of its own platform, an Indian-made Tatra 6xNNXX truck and an Elbit Systems ATMOS 8-mm gun system, received as part of technology transfer. The plans provide for the manufacture of 155 self-propelled howitzers to equip one battalion of the Thai army. The project, announced in April 18, is scheduled to be completed within 2018 months.


The Republic of Korea has increased the combat capabilities of its artillery, while using the existing systems to the maximum, saving the necessary funds for this. The self-propelled howitzer EVO-105 (pictured above), produced by Hanwha Techwin, is a combination of an 105-mm cannon and artillery piece taken from the MXXUMXXXUMX towed howitzer already in service with the Kia KM101 (1XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX) XIUMX-ton XHUMX truck

This significantly increased the mobility of the howitzer, its ability to hold and remove from the position, and also increased the survival rate of the calculation and the platform itself. The system can get a fire mission while driving, stop, shoot back and start moving again within 60 seconds. Thanks to the use of the traditional artillery unit, the South Korean army can fully engage all of its existing ammunition arsenals. In addition, the soldiers are already familiar with this system and trained to work with it. The operational characteristics of the plant are further enhanced by the positioning and guidance system, which is connected to the digital control system. The Ministry of Defense said that the EVO-105 howitzer began to enter the army in the 2017 year, with a total of 800 systems being delivered.



Chinese self-propelled installation: at the top of SH1, at the bottom of SH2

The Chinese company NORINCO is also not lagging behind global trends, having in its portfolio self-propelled howitzers on the chassis of trucks, which are also offered for export. The company offers both 122-mm cannon of Russian origin and 155-mm cannon compatible with NATO standards. The SH1 howitzer is an 155-mm / 52 caliber howitzer on the chassis of a Wanshan WS5252 6x6 serial truck with a modified protected cab. For firing in the rear of the installation, a large opener is lowered. Ammunition is 25 shots, while Pakistan and Myanmar have already bought the howitzer. Recently, a variant of this cannon could also be observed in the 72 artillery brigade of the Chinese army. The X122 SH2 howitzer with a Chinese towed howitzer PL96 (a copy of the Soviet D-30) was used in a similar XNUMX howitzer. Again, the desire to simplify the transfer of self-propelled systems by air had an impact on these developments.


The self-propelled howitzer ARCHER company BAE Bofors is considered one of the most effective self-propelled artillery systems in service. Designed as an independent system from the very beginning, it offers the firepower of a full battery in one weapon system.

The self-propelled howitzer Archer FH77BW L52 of the company BAE Systems Bofors was designed as an independently operating fire-support system of the type “fired and drove away”. The howitzer itself, the accompanying ammunition hauling vehicle and the support machine can increase the autonomy and tactical flexibility of this complex. A fully automatic 30-mm / 6 cal howitzer with a magazine on the 6 shot was installed on the modified Volvo A155D 52x21 commercial chassis. The calculation can stop, shoot for 30 seconds, withdraw from the position and start moving for the next 30 seconds, while the whole process does not require leaving the protected cabin. This is achieved by on-board navigation guidance systems and a fully digital fire control system that allows firing in MRSI mode (“Flurry of Fire” - shooting mode, when several (in our case up to six) projectiles fired from the same gun at different angles, at the same time reach the goal). At present, the Archer howitzer is in service with only the Swedish army.

As a further development of the CAESAR self-propelled howitzer, Nexter recently introduced an improved version on the 8x8 chassis. For CAESAR 2 SAU, a 155-mm / 52 cal howitzer was taken and installed on the Tatra T815-7 8X8 truck chassis, which has an increased level of protection against mines and improvised explosive devices. The loading and firing system is fully automatic, allowing the calculation of a person's 2-3 to make six shots in two minutes. A larger machine with increased off-road maneuverability allowed us to increase the mobile ammunition to 30 shots. In 2017, Denmark chose this system in order to replace its tracked self-propelled guns M109.

On the truck. Interesting niche in artillery

Denmark acquired CAESAR howitzer on Tatra truck chassis


Self-propelled unit RUM-II: made in Jordan

The relative simplicity with which a wheeled howitzer on a wheeled chassis can be deployed attracts those countries that wish to modernize their armed forces. This was demonstrated, for example, by the Jordanian company KADDB (King Abdullah II Design and Development Bureau - Design Bureau named after King Abdullah II), which presented its RUM-II system at the SOFEX 2018 exhibition. In this case, the combination of the chassis of the truck DAF 6x6 and howitzer М126 155 mm / 23 is implemented. To stabilize the platform used rear opener and two side stops. Self-propelled unit RUM-II is mainly designed to increase the mobility of the gun and is manually operated by the calculation of six people who are placed in the cabin on two indivisible seats.



Indian towed howitzer Dhanush


ATMOS howitzer on Tatra truck chassis

The Indian army is also with its characteristic "activity" implements projects in the field of wheeled artillery systems. The goal of the Mounted Gun System program is to purchase ready-made 155 mm guns with a barrel length of 52 caliber. Initially, 200 systems will be purchased, followed by a further 614 to be manufactured locally. Prospective candidates include CAESAR, ATMOS and the Indian Tata Power SED SPG. An RFQ was issued in early 2018. Within the framework of the project, Nexter Systems signed an agreement to form a consortium with Indian firms Larsen SToubro (L&T) and Ashok Leyland Defense. Israeli Elbit Systems has merged with Indian firm Bharat Forge. Tata's proposal was reportedly developed in collaboration with South African Denel and was first shown in 2012. In April last year, the Indian company Ordnance Factory Board presented a new version of the Dhanush towed howitzer, which could meet the country's needs for a mobile artillery installation. In November 2014, the Indian Defense Procurement Council approved $ 2,5 billion for 814 artillery systems per truck chassis.


The Hawkeye self-propelled howitzer is a 105-mm M20 cannon with a special anti-rollback system mounted on a light HMMWV armored car.

The creation of self-propelled howitzers, which could be delivered directly with the airborne assault force, is a nontrivial task, since there are a lot of problems associated with capacity, dimensions, subsequent logistics, etc. As a result, the airborne units mainly engage towed guns (the US Army, for example, uses 119 mm 105 howitzer and 777 mm 155 mm M105), whose mobility, as already noted, is insufficient. Mandus Group, in collaboration with AM General, offers a solution that is an 1152-mm howitzer mounted on an M1A2w / B47 HMMWV armored vehicle. In this system, the principle of operation of the tool with the roll-out of the barrel is used; four quickly deployable hydraulic stabilizers (two in front and two in the rear of the platform) ensure the stability of the platform. The digital fire control system allows Hawkeye howitzer to get a fire mission on the go and prepare for opening fire in seconds. A representative from AM General explained that “Hawkeye’s unique underride system allows you to fire from a HMMWV light vehicle. The system weighs little enough to be transported on the suspension of the CH-105 helicopter. Installation after a fire request is immediately ready for action. The mobility of the HMMWV chassis allows the system to remain in the same combat formations with light infantry and move easily in order to avoid counter-battery fire. Gun is served by the calculation by hand and can fire all types of 1-mm ammunition, standing in the US Army arsenal, including missiles M760 and M60, smoke M60 / M2A193, high-explosive fragmentation (PF) active-reactive M314, lighting M1130 and PF M1AXNUMX with ready striking elements. The US Army at the beginning of last year conducted a demonstration of Hawkeye howitzer.


ACS on the Super Stallion chassis (wheel formula 6х6) manufactured by Ashok Leyland

Artillery on the chassis of wheeled vehicles provides a high level of tactical mobility, which in vehicles in the 8x8 configuration almost corresponds to the mobility of tracked artillery systems. Having an increased range, at least. 155-mm guns, you can perform fire tasks without the need to engage tracked chassis with higher maneuverability.

On the materials of the sites:
www.nationaldefensemagazine.org
www.nexter-group.fr
www.norinco.com
www.mandusgroup.com
www.baesystems.com
www.hanwhatechwin.com
elbitsystems.com
www.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
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92 comments
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  1. +1
    April 5 2019 18: 04
    Interesting trend however wink
    1. +3
      April 5 2019 18: 37
      You are right in my opinion. Trend. No one puts direct-fire guns on. And therefore, what's the difference on what it is mounted ... The cheaper, the better ... And what could be cheaper than a production truck?
      1. +8
        April 5 2019 19: 18
        Quote: tasha
        And therefore, what's the difference on what it is mounted ...

        Everything is not as simple as it seems. The modern artillery gun (installation, mortar) even in the rear every year is more and more vulnerable. Therefore, there is a difference, and what else.
        Just classic "tower" self-propelled guns with anti-bullet / anti-splinter armor are also getting more expensive every year.
        1. +1
          April 5 2019 19: 32
          Therefore, there is a difference, and what else.
          Of course you write the truth. But I'm talking about cheapness.
          Those. the probability of getting hit by bullets is zero. Fragments - maybe. This is if after the first volley did not have time to leave ... The same Grad ...
          1. -1
            April 5 2019 19: 39
            Just classic "tower" SPGs
            I think their time has passed. Maybe I’m wrong, but, offhand, I can’t imagine their place in any conflict .. A good topic to discuss, chat :)

            And such truck guns are the forerunner of future cannon robots. That thought on Friday ... winked
            1. 0
              April 5 2019 19: 52
              Yes, it’s straight, the future is with drones, they launched a projectile with wings, it went over a point, its wings folded down.
              1. 0
                April 5 2019 20: 00
                the future belongs to drones
                This is generation ++, and generation + is a projectile from a gun driven by a ballistic computer. Cheaper just ..
              2. 0
                April 5 2019 22: 36
                Quote: Pessimist22
                Yes, it’s straight, the future is with drones, they launched a projectile with wings, it went over a point, its wings folded down.

                This is not profitable, it is more cost-effective to have a drone with cheap weapons, so the cost of hitting a target will be less, because the consumption of electronics is less.
            2. 0
              April 5 2019 19: 57
              It depends on which conflict, today's local-party guerrilla or full-scale. In the current yes, the palenul is washed off, so to fasten the head with a zhps on a grad and one volley there are several goals. For me on a truck chassis sau this is marketing to sell to poor countries and with good roads plus small countries.
            3. +5
              April 5 2019 20: 14
              Quote: tasha
              I think their time has passed.

              Rather "they can't afford it"
              So you have to take a step to the side, replacing towed and self-propelled guns not with full-fledged self-propelled guns, but with guns at the automobile base.
              1. 0
                April 6 2019 15: 56
                And I don’t like wheeled self-propelled guns. What needs to be done with the truck so that it is not gouged by the return of a 152-mm salvo (a normal carriage is not cheaper)? How to banyat the trunk on a truck? A cheap truck broke down - did an expensive gun fail? The maintenance of the gun and the truck is very different, but it will have to be carried out in one place and, possibly, at the same time. How much easier is it to bury and disguise a conventional gun than a wheeled self-propelled gun? When the gun is in position, the truck cannot operate in the interests of the battery. Etc. Maybe it’s better to develop a carriage that will have automatic deployment-coagulation means, sharpened for high-speed leaving the position, so that you just need to attach it to the truck manually?
            4. 0
              April 5 2019 23: 28
              Quote: tasha
              I think their time has passed. Maybe I’m wrong, but, offhand, I can’t imagine their place in any conflict.

              That’s the thing that didn’t go away: in the Donbass, it was self-propelled artillery systems (gun / mortar) that were capable of delivering a strike and quickly moving away or quickly supporting their troops and moving along with them. The same Msta and Nona. But towed guns often became victims of opponents (see information from Lostarmore, for example). In addition, self-propelled guns, thanks to adjustable projectiles, can do well to hit well-defended targets. And just a massive artillery bomb costs a lot. Moreover, it is the reservation (in addition to mobility) that provides it and the crew survivability, including and on the march, and when fired by the enemy.
            5. 0
              April 6 2019 13: 00
              Well, this is what you have because in your ideas there are no wars with the use of WMD. for some reason.
              although TNW was not subject to restriction.
          2. +6
            April 5 2019 20: 11
            Quote: tasha
            Those. the probability of getting hit by bullets is zero.

            The highest. Let me remind you that an established front line, as in the First World War, is not planned
            Quote: tasha
            Shards - maybe.

            Not "maybe", but will certainly be. Considering the development of counter-battery funds.

            Quote: tasha
            This is if after the first volley did not have time to leave ...

            I am afraid there will be no opportunity to "leave after the first volley". Moreover, even this "leave" will not guarantee security.
            1. +1
              April 5 2019 20: 27
              The highest. Let me remind you that an established front line, as in the First World War, is not planned
              An interesting argument. There was an example of this. So maybe a truck with bags nearby?
              Not "maybe", but will certainly be. Given the development of counter-battery

              About counter-battery this by itself.
              Better this way:
              1. A conflict of low intensity, a struggle of a more or less organized force with partisan formations. An example is Chechnya, Afghanistan, what is under the USSR, what is now
              2. Conflict of medium intensity - two more or less organized parties have limited mobility databases with counter-battery warfare (Donbass, India-Pakistan, Karabakh)
              3. Conflict of medium intensity - two organized armies of Old Man Makhno rush to and fro ... (Civil)
              4. Global conflict - two organized forces are at war. Counter-batteries are present to the maximum. (The Great Patriotic War, 2-I World)
              I think I missed something.
              And where is the place of the expensive tower self-propelled guns?
              1. +8
                April 5 2019 21: 00
                in all 4 cases. And they were used.
              2. +12
                April 5 2019 21: 17
                Quote: tasha
                And where is the place of the expensive tower self-propelled guns?

                In all four cases.
                "Expensive turret self-propelled guns" are the protection of calculations during firing, maneuverability, short time to open fire on the move, a sector of fire of 360 degrees, a real possibility of anti-fire maneuver, and so on. This is in demand in conflicts of any intensity.
                1. +1
                  April 6 2019 04: 55
                  Expensive is the key word. Which of the following cannot make a truck with a gun?
                  1. +2
                    April 6 2019 11: 34
                    Quote: tasha
                    then a truck with a cannon cannot do the above?

                    Cheap truck with a gun? He cannot do any of the above.
                2. +2
                  April 6 2019 20: 25
                  Quote: Spade
                  "Expensive turret self-propelled guns" are the protection of calculations during firing, maneuverability, short time to open fire on the move, a sector of fire of 360 degrees, a real possibility of anti-fire maneuver, and so on. This is in demand in conflicts of any intensity.

                  Caterpillar tower self-propelled guns are 30-60 tons of weight and a tank base. It was invented for and used to support tank units. If tanks are not used, these elephants on the theater have nothing to do, along with their trailers, pontoon bridges, tank avionics and other equipment.
                  The idea that airborne forces should receive airborne artillery that is as mobile on the ground as the motorized infantry with which it will have to interact is perfectly reasonable.
                  1. +1
                    April 6 2019 20: 57
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    It was invented for and used to support tank units.

                    8))))) A lot of time has passed since World War II.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    If tanks are not used

                    And they are used.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    The idea that airborne forces should receive airborne artillery, as mobile on the ground as motorized infantry, with which it will have to interact

                    And this is here from which side ????
                    At the moment, the only REALLY airborne artillery towed are 105-mm guns. All. Well, plus mortars, but put them in brackets.
                    Even the 155-mm M777 proved to be insufficiently airmobile due to the forced "support of a domestic manufacturer". Problems with a standard tractor.

                    Nobody has a single airborne "motorized howitzer" in service.
                    1. -1
                      April 6 2019 21: 11
                      Quote: Spade
                      Nobody has a single airborne "motorized howitzer" in service.

                      It depends on what is considered aeromobility. Caesar can be thrown 400th, AMX-30 - no.

                      Quote: Spade
                      And they are used.

                      If tanks are used, then without question, self-propelled guns on a tank chassis are better, because all the auxiliary tank facilities should be carried with them anyway.
                      1. 0
                        April 6 2019 21: 22
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        It depends on what is considered aeromobility.

                        It just so happened that "airmobility" is the ability of a unit to participate in a tactical helicopter airborne assault

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Caesar can be thrown 400th,

                        Air transportability.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Tank chassis self-propelled guns

                        Does not exist for a very long time. With the Second World War. Everywhere special chassis. Sometimes using units and assemblies of standard tanks and armored personnel carriers
                      2. +1
                        April 6 2019 21: 24
                        Quote: Spade
                        Everywhere special chassis. Sometimes using units and assemblies of standard tanks and armored personnel carriers

                        You are right, inaccurately put it. Tank-mounted tracked chassis.
                        Quote: Spade
                        Air transportability.

                        Yeah. Caught.
                      3. +1
                        April 6 2019 21: 33
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Yeah. Caught.

                        That's not the point. Air mobility is really a problem. Big Giant Huge. Well, air transportability, so, show off.
                        Otherwise, the Slovak "Eva" would not have expected such a failure ...

                        The fully automated "long" 155 mm howitzer, which can be carried by the Hercules, turned out to be of no use to anyone. How strange it is.
                      4. 0
                        April 6 2019 23: 05
                        Quote: Spade
                        That's not the point

                        Yes, no, no complaints. Sloppy in terms is evil.
        2. 0
          April 5 2019 20: 56
          Now the situation is when the problem is not destroyed and discovered, and everything goes to that there will be counter-battery shells with AGSN and then it’s just one shot and you need to wander as far as possible, and even tank armor will not save
          1. +5
            April 5 2019 21: 19
            Quote: Babalaykin
            AGSN shells

            It is quite possible to defend against them. Well, from a firing raid of one or two divisions, it is very stressful.
            1. 0
              April 6 2019 11: 19
              that's a joke, now they are covering with divisions, and with the AGSN there may be special anti-artillery units with a minimum reaction time, respectively, and arte will need to make legs instantly
              1. +1
                April 6 2019 11: 36
                Quote: Babalaykin
                and with AGSN

                Once again, GOS are unstable to countermeasures. Moreover, such shells are much more vulnerable to continuously and actively developing C-RAM complexes.
            2. +1
              April 8 2019 05: 47
              spread the battery along the front not 200 m, but more. The whole problem is in controlling the fire of such a battery, although there are no special problems with the development of automation and topographic location tools. Back in 1991, in Iraq, the Americans dispersed their guns in a battery almost to the front of 1 km. None of their batteries could be suppressed, not to mention what would be destroyed.
    2. -1
      April 5 2019 20: 00
      Quote: kashcheyevo egg
      Interesting trend however

      Artillery for the retarded.
      1. +3
        April 5 2019 20: 15
        Quote: Setrac
        Quote: kashcheyevo egg
        Interesting trend however

        Artillery for the retarded.

        Is not a fact. It depends on what is replaced by such tools. If towed is an undoubted step forward.
        1. 0
          April 5 2019 20: 23
          Quote: Spade
          Is not a fact. It depends on what is replaced by such tools. If towed is an undoubted step forward.

          If you cheapen for the sake of quantity - then this is towed artillery, if you need mobility - you need normal self-propelled guns. Nobody has yet canceled the counter-battery struggle.
          1. 0
            April 5 2019 20: 31
            need normal self-propelled guns
            Normal self-propelled guns, as I understand it, are tracked. So?
            1. +1
              April 5 2019 20: 33
              Quote: tasha
              Normal self-propelled guns, as I understand it, are tracked. So?

              Normal self-propelled guns are with reservations.
              1. +2
                April 5 2019 20: 37
                Imagine a self-propelled gun based on a truck, with an automatic loader and an armored cab?
                However, let's present the subject of the article as a further development of a self-propelled gun. And that’s it, the dispute is settled ... smile
                1. 0
                  April 5 2019 20: 46
                  Quote: tasha
                  Imagine a self-propelled gun based on a truck, with an automatic loader and an armored cab?

                  This is absolutely not enough.
                  Quote: tasha
                  And that’s it, the dispute is settled ...

                  Just don’t answer me and the argument itself will end.
                  1. +3
                    April 5 2019 20: 52
                    My mistake. The topic is interesting and relatively harmless, not politics smile
                    It’s a pity that the Friday chatter did not work. Excuse me..
                2. 0
                  April 5 2019 23: 32
                  Quote: tasha
                  Imagine a self-propelled gun based on a truck, with an automatic loader and an armored cab?

                  Phlox is one of ours, and there is Caesar too. This is offhand. But they are not able to replace heavy tracked self-propelled guns, but complement each other.
              2. +2
                April 5 2019 21: 23
                Quote: Setrac
                Normal self-propelled guns are with reservations.

                There is a Swedish "Archer", there is a Slovak "Eva" On the one hand, armored. Fully automatic charging. On the other hand, the chassis of the car is almost unchanged.
                1. -1
                  April 5 2019 22: 54
                  Quote: Spade
                  On the other hand, the car chassis is almost unchanged.

                  So I’m writing about that - it’s not a matter of the chassis, you just need to take the chassis with a margin so that there is enough carrying capacity for anti-fragmentation armor.
                  To find out who puts disadvantages in such a harmless topic, the country should know its "heroes".
          2. +2
            April 5 2019 21: 21
            Quote: Setrac
            If you cheapen for the sake of quantity - then this is towed artillery

            Towed artillery is more expensive, less mobile and less resistant to counter-battery. Even in the self-propelled version.
            1. +1
              April 5 2019 22: 58
              Quote: Spade
              Towed artillery is more expensive

              That's not true.
              Quote: Spade
              less mobile

              Mobility is the same - truck.
              Quote: Spade
              less resistant to counter-battery

              The stability is the same - and there and there is no ballistic protection.
              In the plus - you can quickly leave the position - if you do not save on mechanization.
              In the red - you can’t dig in, roll the cannon into cover and disguise yourself.

              While the gun fires, the truck can drive around for ammunition.
              1. +4
                April 6 2019 11: 48
                Quote: Setrac
                That's not true.

                It's true. A modern self-propelled gun plus a truck is more expensive than just a truck with a gun.

                Quote: Setrac
                Mobility is the same - truck.

                No. Because the towing speed of the implement is much lower than the speed of the truck. Especially off-road on the ground. Have you ever wondered why 120-mm mortars and "Cornflowers" are not dragged behind cars, but carried in them?

                Quote: Setrac
                Sustainability is the same

                No. When operating in the "fire raid-movement" mode, the guns on the trucks have an advantage over the self-propelled guns. They carry the BC with them
                1. 0
                  April 6 2019 15: 28
                  Quote: Spade
                  It's true. A modern self-propelled gun plus a truck is more expensive than just a truck with a gun.

                  Do you know what a self-propelled device is? Its price is minuscule in the price of the gun.
                  Quote: Spade
                  Because the towing speed of the guns is much less than the speed of a truck. Especially off-road on the ground.

                  Your self-propelled gun is the same truck loaded with a cannon.
                  Quote: Spade
                  advantage over self-propelled

                  Forget about self-propelled guns, they only move along the battlefield when firing direct fire. Long-range artillery has no self-propulsion.
                  Quote: Spade
                  When operating in the "fire raid-movement" mode, the guns on the trucks have an advantage over the self-propelled guns. They carry the BC with them

                  And the truck that tows the gun - does not carry ammunition? Moreover, he can leave the gun in position and leave for a new ammunition.
                  Quote: Spade
                  Have you ever wondered why 120-mm mortars and "Cornflowers" are not dragged behind cars, but carried in them?

                  You are confusing something, "cornflower" is a trailed mortar and it is "dragged behind the car". There are such mortars that are carried in the back of a car, but in order to shoot, it must be unloaded and installed on the ground.
                  1. +1
                    April 6 2019 17: 05
                    Quote: Setrac
                    Its price is minuscule in the price of the gun.

                    However, it costs money. Like the bed, wheel drive, etc.

                    Quote: Setrac
                    Forget about self-propelled guns

                    Forget about non-moving ones. ALL modern towed 155 caliber self-propelled guns. Except one 8))) But it costs more than any of the self-propelled.
                    And a rhinestone so as not to be distracted. D-20, "Genocide-B", "Msta-B" and even "Pat-B" are not modern weapons

                    Quote: Setrac
                    And the truck that tows the gun - does not carry ammunition?

                    Carries. But he is far from the gun. Unhooked, unloaded boxes with shots, left.

                    Quote: Setrac
                    You are confusing something, "cornflower" is a trailed mortar

                    Who cares? Towing speed is still limited. Even if a water tank or livestock trailer is towed 8)))))

                    For example, for "Msta-B" the maximum on the highway is 60 km / h, on the ground - 20 km / h.

                    Quote: Setrac
                    and it is he who is "dragged behind the car"

                    No. He is carried in car A "dragged along" over short distances.
            2. 0
              April 5 2019 23: 33
              Quote: Spade
              Towed artillery is more expensive

              Do not explain why it is more expensive?
              1. +2
                April 6 2019 11: 48
                Quote: Blackgrifon
                Quote: Spade
                Towed artillery is more expensive

                Do not explain why it is more expensive?

                Higher.
    3. 0
      April 8 2019 16: 04
      no trend will cancel crowds of trucks delivering shells.
  2. +5
    April 5 2019 19: 51
    hi ... Movies on the topic:
    ... CAESAR was developed by Nexter
    The artillery unit is a modernized version of the 155-mm towed gun TRF1 with a barrel length of 52 caliber
    Hanwha Techwin’s self-propelled howitzer EVO-105 (photo above) is a combination of a 105-mm gun and artillery pieces ....
    BAE Bofors ARCHER self-propelled howitzer is considered one of the most effective self-propelled artillery systems in service.
    Indian towed howitzer Dhanush
    The Hawkeye self-propelled howitzer is a 105-mm M20 cannon with a special anti-rollback system mounted on a light HMMWV armored car.

    .... For a long "serial" fellow - sorry. Could not stop feel
  3. +1
    April 5 2019 20: 26
    Not for the climate of the Russian Federation such a stray. You can do for export. They will not leave the road in winter with us, they will get stuck in the fall and will not go anywhere in the spring at all. And the summer is different for us. So only in a very limited way can it be used. Or do some kind of super-terrain vehicle to make a chassis, but then cheapness disappears
    1. +7
      April 5 2019 21: 29
      Quote: evgic
      They will not leave the road in winter with us, they will get stuck in the fall and will not go anywhere in the spring at all. And the summer is different for us.

      You are right, but in part. Remember towed artillery, remember MLRS. Somehow even cope on wheels 8)))
      Although yes, tactical mobility compared to tracked ones is very limited.
    2. +2
      April 5 2019 22: 56
      Quote: evgic
      Not for the climate of the Russian Federation such a stray.

      ... But there is one exception:
      1. 0
        April 5 2019 23: 36
        The article then deals with self-propelled guns based on a serial chassis. And this is already borrowed from the rocket launchers. For rent, this miracle costs no less than a tracked self-propelled guns, or even more. Now, if the gun will be 300 mm and a range of 300 km, then you can put it on that. But for now, this is from an unrealizable area
    3. +2
      April 5 2019 23: 35
      Quote: evgic
      get stuck in the fall and never go anywhere in the spring

      But how then do the Grads drive :) Yes, and the same towed guns carry all sorts of Urals (and where else Krazy) and nothing, they climb (not everywhere, but still).
    4. 0
      April 7 2019 10: 16
      And somewhere the divisions of "Grad" and "Tornado" began to cry, they will not go anywhere on our roads :(.
  4. -4
    April 5 2019 20: 29
    And what is the meaning of such homemade products on the knee? belay -type cheap and can shoot? laughing -and you can put it in the plane! -and the plane for the transportation of classic self-propelled guns in the West for 50 years and have not been able to build?
    1. +5
      April 5 2019 21: 30
      Quote: Bone1
      And what is the meaning of such homemade products on the knee?

      There are almost no "homemade products on the knee". Most of the described samples are very, very perfect.
      1. -3
        April 5 2019 21: 33
        And the above can be called differently? laughing - this is no longer "for the poor", but "for the poor."
        1. +6
          April 5 2019 21: 57
          Quote: Bone1
          And the above can be called differently? - this is no longer "for the poor", but "for the poor."

          The poor can not afford it
  5. 0
    April 5 2019 22: 31
    I remembered BT tanks, which were supposed to change shoes on wheels. Here is another direction: self-propelled tracked platform with rising wheels. On caterpillars leaves for a position, shoots from them and leaves to the highway. There he stands on wheels, clings to the tractor and quickly reels up.
    1. 0
      April 6 2019 19: 46
      BT changed shoes on wheels? belay -Tried to imagine the process-fantasy failed. laughing
  6. 0
    April 6 2019 07: 44
    I give food for the mind:
    take this thing -

    We cut the sides of the body (or make a new frame), stick 2A36 there.
    The only trouble is that then such cars will turn green.
    1. +1
      April 6 2019 09: 57
      I give food for the mind:

      In my humble opinion, it is better not to torment the "horse" with an unusual task. Moreover, everything has already been invented and debugged both technically and theoretically. smile
      1. 0
        April 6 2019 10: 34
        Quote: VictorZhivilov
        In my humble opinion, it is better not to torment the "horse" with an unusual task.
        Well, the "horse" will pull 10 tons, the mobility of the artillery needs to be added, and remaking it for such a platform is cheaper than muddying a new chassis (although a specialized chassis will be faster).
        As a transitional option - it’s quite normal, I think.
    2. +4
      April 6 2019 11: 54
      Quote: Simargl
      I give food for the mind:
      take this thing -

  7. +2
    April 6 2019 10: 45
    Artillery survivability is determined by the following factors:

    - time to complete the fire mission (being on the OP)
    - division dispersion
    -reservation.

    With booking it is clear. Dispersion (zonal occupation of the OP) implies the availability of individual binding and orientation capabilities for the guns, and determining the location of the gun in the fan.

    OZ execution time. (the order of the shelling, the choice of the projectile, charge, fuse. The method of firing is ricochet, air, depending on the nature of the target, omit) depends on:

    - on the number of artillery involved to complete the task
    -power of the projectile (caliber and filling- cc, striking elements)
    -fire accuracy, all types of training, the use of adjustable BP.
    - the speed of occupation and abandonment of OP
    Well, you need to look at what technique this can be fully implemented. And in what conflicts, what and how to use.
    1. 0
      April 6 2019 11: 53
      I also forgot to indicate the rate of fire.
      The use of loading mechanisms or facilitating loading may also not be on all types of art systems.
  8. 0
    April 6 2019 11: 13
    For once, I completely agree with the title of the article - "An interesting niche in artillery". Such wheeled artillery has a rather narrow field of application, where on the one hand it will be cheaper than self-propelled (tracked and armored), and on the other, more efficiently towed.

    Let's try to compare it with other systems:
    1. Patency: loses to tracked systems, loses to towed systems (debatable of course, but I bet)))
    2. Speed ​​of firing from a march: loses to tracked systems, outperforms towed artillery (here, too, it is ambiguous that to open fire from a march, you often have to look for a suitable position not on all soils and suitable spots, a wheel gun can turn around, find a suitable ground under towed towers here it’s easier, the caterpillar is generally almost all the same)
    3. Firing angles: tracked 360, wheeled - sector, towed - there are 360 ​​and sector ones, and it’s much easier to deploy than wheeled
    4. Firing position equipment: tracked - easy and not so much necessary, wheeled - you’ll bury and hide horseradish, towed - preparing a position or hiding a gun is much easier than for its wheeled counterpart (counter-battery shooting and marching are of course in modern wars present but also work with prepared firing positions quite a lot)
    5. Price: tracked-expensive, wheeled-expensive (or cheap but sucks), towed, cheaper have not yet been invented (there is no need to deceive yourself about the price of wheeled artillery, so the price with fire control systems, automatic loading and a specialized chassis will be comparable to at the cost of the caterpillar system, shaitan crafts such as a gun we fasten on a truck that is on hand of course cheaper but due to stability they will not be as accurate as towed)
    6. Operating price: tracked-expensive, wheeled-cheaper, towed-cheaper only without artillery in general (when comparing equipment about the maintenance price (now when purchasing equipment they generally consider the price of its entire life cycle with repairs, zips, training, etc.) often they forget, but in vain, the troops should always train: to ride, shoot, maintain, without a trained artilleryman, the gun is an iron pipe and it doesn’t matter whether it’s on wheels or on tracks. And then the question is: how long does a specialized wheeled chassis survive, the cost of its repair and spare parts? )

    Given the pros and cons, we understand a hundred that these systems have a really narrow niche.
    Are they needed in Russia - doubtfully, the price of development, production, operation (complication of logistics and training calculations) with a fairly narrow niche of application? better to produce more full tracked artillery.
    For someone else you need, probably, but again a little, and the rest is PR and marketing)))
    1. 0
      April 6 2019 12: 28
      As for us, we don’t need it, I got a little excited, something where necessary, and imagine such systems we even have)) For example, NONA-SVK, it will be much better than a haamer with a gun, without armor and calculating outside the car))
    2. 0
      April 6 2019 15: 36
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      Let's try to compare it with other systems:

      Conclusion - the ersatz of self-propelled guns based on a car chassis is needed for those who can not make or buy a normal self-propelled gun.
    3. 0
      April 6 2019 20: 11
      Everything is logical, but can I also argue? - only a little in a different vein? - according to the experience of 2MB and post-war opinions, self-propelled guns should support the attack of tanks, i.e. follow them and suppress targets that appear at a visible distance - hence the need to book, at least from bullets and fragments, and the tracked chassis in order to be passable like in tanks, but, later on, self-propelled guns were mainly used for firing at great distances and the main requirements for them was the ability to quickly turn around, shoot back and leave the position — that is, the wheeled chassis, in addition to cheapness, will allow self-propelled guns to transfer to the desired area faster, more economically, without destroying the road surface, occupy and leave the passability position and armor here secondary characteristics — an example of MLRSs are available exclusively on wheeled chassis, although there are no barriers to using tracked vehicles.
      1. -1
        April 6 2019 20: 34
        Quote: Bone1
        according to 2MB experience and post-war opinions, self-propelled guns should support the attack of tanks, i.e. follow them and suppress targets that appear at a visible distance - from here


        Well this is a masterpiece!
        No one is going anywhere (guns), moving after the battle line of the attacking tanks and the infantry chain is carried out by the NP.
        Here are systems firing from the PDO. And the role of SU during WWII can be performed by VIENNA, and this in certain cases, and also mainly PDO, well, half-direct.
        And it is necessary to leave the OP in conditions of a tough counter-battery struggle of the enemy.
      2. 0
        April 6 2019 21: 01
        The cheapness of self-propelled guns on a wheeled chassis is similar to an advertising slogan in marketing. Everyone writes about the use of a civilian chassis with improvements, but look at what these improvements are - ARCHER, CAESAR, ATMOS self-propelled guns. How much remains of the civilian chassis there and is it a civilian chassis in general? and the price of these improvements I’m sure is substantial, of course there are other cheaper options for wheeled self-propelled guns, but for some reason I doubt them. Yes, quick movement along the road is a plus, but it is a plus where there are roads and bearded partisans or just bearded ones do not sit with a button from a mine near the road, otherwise such an extension turns into a whole not very fast operation.

        MLRS is still seriously long-range and is applied somewhat differently.

        MAZ-543 released 11 pcs. civilian or military chassis? (joke of course)


        photo from https://www.trucksplanet.com

        photo from the site https://www.kolesa.ru
        1. 0
          April 6 2019 21: 13
          "MLRS is still seriously long-range and is used somewhat differently" - about the first - you are wrong and you yourself understand, and the second - the use is the same - to move into the area - to fire at the target - to change the position - what is different? - what about the presence of roads, bearded partisans, mines ... - does this not force the MLRS to be put on tracked chassis?
          1. 0
            April 6 2019 21: 31
            MLRS always works in a mode of fire raid, fired at one target and left, for artillery this is only one of the methods of use and not the main one.
            Where there are no roads, but around partisans, they use it)))

            Just do not tell me please that this is a flamethrower)))
            1. 0
              April 6 2019 22: 05

              MLRS is probably the most common NATO MLRS and booking, and tracks, and a range of 40 km (more than most art systems) - just a beauty!
      3. 0
        April 6 2019 22: 05
        Quote: Bone1
        about the experience of 2MB and post-war opinions, self-propelled guns must support the attack of tanks
        With the appearance of 120-125-mm guns in tanks, they themselves will support whoever you want. Not relevant. And, to be honest, I have not even heard that something like that was practiced. Now self-propelled guns = conventional artillery, work from closed positions, etc. An exception may be "Genocide" - but here you have to ask Lopatov - this is a very special product.
  9. 0
    April 6 2019 14: 13
    the thoughts of the couch X-perd about self-propelled guns * Phlox * - We have had self-propelled guns of this type for a long time, but NONA and NONA-SVK are too characteristic in appearance - they are too noticeable on public roads! Self-propelled guns on a truck chassis can be easily disguised as something harmless, you can even develop a full-time mask set, Why is this necessary? The CTO mode - the operating group needs to quickly and secretly go to the address, the promotion is carried out on cars with hidden booking - we have such ones - and the group thanks to * Phlox * receives MBT firepower, and with traffic rules everything is in order, since it can move on roads public use WITHOUT escorting the VAI machine — again, plus in favor of stealth,
  10. 0
    April 7 2019 09: 37
    In combination with a long barrel and 152mm, such machines are quite applicable. This is a replacement for the standard bundle of equipment and tractor. They take Kamaz 8x8, why not immediately install it on Kamaz? It is not necessary to completely change the fleet of towed howitzers for such vehicles, but a lot of cases when mobility is very important. Modern equipment for topographic referencing and calculation of corrections and corr shells will give this howitzer a lot of advantages over old tracked specimens and will cost relatively not expensive.
    1. 0
      April 8 2019 11: 03
      then it will be necessary two KAMAZ, one with a gun the other with shells and so only one
      1. 0
        April 8 2019 11: 27
        Anyway, it’s more mobile .... and you don’t have to drag a gun ....
  11. 0
    April 7 2019 16: 24
    ... article + .... in my memory, the Komsomolets tractor and the ZIS 2 installed on its chassis surfaced right away in my memory somehow ..... ahead of time .....
  12. +1
    April 7 2019 21: 34
    Comparing a wheeled self-propelled gun with a tracked self-propelled gun is somewhat incorrect, since it is not supposed to change tracked ones to wheeled ones. We are talking about replacing towed artillery, and primarily from 152 mm. The main difference between these systems in AUTOMATION! Accordingly, a reduction in calculation, rate of fire, mobility, booking, and as a result, a cheaper life cycle. When comparing with tracked ones, one should pay attention to weight; it is about 2 times less, roughly speaking, and half as much cheaper. The lack of booking at the Grad type MLRS is a gross miscalculation!
    1. +1
      April 8 2019 11: 30
      It is necessary to compare an ordinary howitzer with a howitzer on a truck .... the next stage is a howitzer with a tower and automation and a bk on an armored truck and the next stage is a tracked self-propelled gun. For example, it is entirely possible to replace tracked self-propelled guns without a 152mm turret with wheeled ones.
  13. +1
    April 9 2019 06: 14
    When booking a truck and using an automatic loader (ARCHER), the line between the car and tower self-propelled guns is erased.
  14. 0
    April 12 2019 20: 30
    Probably at this stage it is more correct to speak not about self-propelled guns, but about wheeled self-propelled guns.
  15. 0
    April 13 2019 08: 35
    Ours, as I understand it, did not bother, and a tower from the Coalition of the CB was installed on the KamAZ chassis, with changes of course .....
  16. 0
    5 May 2019 18: 02
    Readers are not indifferent and it pleases wink
  17. 0
    7 May 2019 23: 25
    And with us? I have not heard of such
    1. 0
      8 January 2020 21: 56
      A-222, Coast of self-propelled guns long barrel 130mm shooting from car wheels !!!, and this is in all seriousness !!! issued for the achievement of engineering !!! , to the psychiatrist of all, and those who planned, and those who designed, a vivid example of professional unfitness. If you need a wheeled self-propelled gun, then take the multielevator as suggested by Simargl (Andrey), and it’s even easier to put a portal container loader on the car, so they don’t need to load and unload the cannon on the ground, they don’t need to shoot a large caliber from the car, it’s as stupid as thinking mortar fire from the back of an ass.

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