Resist light: protection from laser weapons. Part of 5

Earlier we examined how to develop laser technologywhich laser weapon can be created to apply for air force, ground forces and air defense, navy.




Now we need to understand whether it is possible to defend against it, and how. Often there are statements that it is enough to cover the rocket with a mirror coating or to polish the projectile, but unfortunately, everything is not so simple.

A conventional aluminum-coated mirror reflects approximately 95% of the incident radiation, and its efficiency depends strongly on the wavelength.

Resist light: protection from laser weapons. Part of 5

Spectral reflectance of mirrors with various metal coatings


Of all the materials shown in the graph, aluminum has the highest reflectivity, which is by no means a refractory material. If the mirror heats up slightly when irradiated with low-power radiation, then when a powerful radiation hits, the material of the mirror coating will quickly become unusable, which will lead to a deterioration of its reflective properties and further avalanche-like heating and destruction.

At a wavelength of less than 200 nm, the efficiency of the mirrors drops sharply, i.e. against ultraviolet or x-ray radiation (free electron laser) such protection will not work at all.


Mirror coating damaged by laser CO2 laser


There are experimental artificial materials with 100% reflection, but they only work for a specific wavelength. Also, mirrors can be covered with special multi-layer coatings that increase their reflectivity to 99.999%. But this method also works only for a single wavelength, and incident at a certain angle.

Do not forget that the operating conditions of weapons are far from laboratory, i.e. mirror rocket or projectile will need to be stored in a container filled with inert gas. The slightest turbidity or stain, for example, from handprints, immediately worsen the reflectivity of the mirror.

The exit from the container immediately exposes the mirror surface to the environment - the atmosphere and heat exposure. If the mirror surface is not covered with a protective film, it will immediately lead to a deterioration of its reflective properties, and if it is covered with a protective coating, it will itself deteriorate the reflective properties of the surface.


Comparative reflection spectra of films of reinforced aluminum, standard aluminum and aluminum without protection


Summarizing the above, we note: mirror protection is not very well suited for protection against laser weapons. Then what is suitable?

To some extent, the method of “smearing” the thermal energy of the laser beam along the body will help by ensuring the rotational movement of the aircraft (LA) around its own longitudinal axis. But this method is only suitable for ammunition and to a limited extent for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), to a lesser extent it will be effective when irradiated with a laser in the front of the case.

On some types of protected objects, for example, on planning bombs, cruise missiles (KR), or anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) attacking a target when flying from above, this method also cannot be applied. Non-rotating, for the most part, are mortar mines. It is difficult to collect data on all non-rotating aircraft, but I am sure that there are a lot of them.


SDB-39 and JSOW planning bombs



JASSM and 3M-14 cruise missiles



ATGM TOW2B attacking target when flying over it


In any case, the rotation of the aircraft will only slightly reduce the effect of laser radiation on the target, since the heat transferred by the powerful laser radiation to the hull will be transferred to the internal structures and further along all the components of the aircraft.

The use of fumes and aerosols as countermeasures against laser weapons also has limited capabilities. As already mentioned in the articles of the series, the use of lasers against ground-based armored vehicles or ships is possible only when used against surveillance equipment, which we will return to protection. Burn the BMP case /tank or surface ship with a laser beam in the foreseeable future is unrealistic.

Of course, it is impossible to apply smoke or aerosol protection against aircraft. Due to the high speed of the aircraft, the smoke or aerosol will always be blown back by the oncoming air pressure, for helicopters they will be blown away by the air flow from the propeller.

Thus, protection against laser weapons in the form of sprayed fumes and aerosols may be required only on lightly armored vehicles. On the other hand, tanks and other armored vehicles are often equipped with standard smoke screen systems to disrupt the enemy’s weapons systems, and in this case, when developing appropriate fillers, they can also be used to counteract laser weapons.


Elements of the complex of active protection (KAZ) "Afganit", intended for the production of protective curtains, promising tank T-14 based on the platform "Armata"


Returning to the protection of optical and thermal imaging intelligence, we can assume that the installation of optical filters that prevent the passage of laser radiation of a certain wavelength, suitable only at the initial stage to protect against low-power laser weapons, for the following reasons:

- in service will be a large range of lasers from different manufacturers operating at different wavelengths;

- a filter designed to absorb or reflect a certain wavelength when exposed to high-power radiation is likely to fail, which will either lead to laser radiation on sensitive elements, or failure of the optics itself (clouding, distortion of the image);

- Some lasers, in particular, a free electron laser, can change the working wavelength in a wide range.

Optical and thermal imaging reconnaissance can be protected for ground equipment, ships and aviation equipment by installing high-speed shields. If laser radiation is detected, the protective screen should close the lenses in fractions of a second, but even this does not guarantee the absence of damage to sensitive elements. It is possible that the widespread use of laser weapons over time will require at least duplication of intelligence in the optical range.

If on large carriers the installation of protective screens and duplicating means of optical and thermal imaging intelligence is quite realizable, then on high-precision weapons, especially compact sizes, it is much more difficult to do. First, the weight and size requirements for protection are significantly tightened, and secondly, exposure to high-power laser radiation, even with the shutter closed, can cause the optical system components to overheat due to dense layout, which will lead to partial or complete disruption of its operation.


American ATGM “Javelin”, Russian “Verba” MANPADS and a short-range missile RVV-MD are the most vulnerable targets for laser weapons


What are the ways to effectively protect equipment and weapons from laser weapons? There are two main methods - ablation protection and structural heat insulation protection.

The ablative protection (from the Latin ablatio - removal, mass carryover) is based on the substance carried off from the surface of the protected object by a flow of hot gas and / or on the rearrangement of the boundary layer, which in total significantly reduces heat transfer to the protected surface. In other words, the incoming energy is spent on heating, melt, and evaporation of the protecting material.

At the moment, ablative protection is actively used in the launching modules of spacecraft (SC) and in the nozzles of jet engines. The most widely used are plastic materials based on phenolic, silicone, and other synthetic resins containing carbon (including graphite), silica (silica, quartz), and nylon as fillers.


Ablative Protection Scheme


Ablative protection is one-time, heavy and bulky, so it makes no sense to use it on reusable aircraft (read not all manned, and most of the unmanned aircraft). Its only use is on guided and unguided projectiles. And here the main question is what thickness should be the protection for a laser power, for example, 100 kW, 300 kW, etc.

On the Apollo spacecraft, the protection thickness ranges from 8 to 44 mm for temperatures from several hundred to several thousand degrees. Somewhere in this range will lie the required thickness of the ablative protection against combat lasers. It is easy to imagine how it will affect the weight and size characteristics, and, consequently, the range, maneuverability, weight of the warhead (CU) and other parameters of the ammunition. The ablative thermal protection must also withstand overloads during launch and maneuvering, and must comply with the norms of terms and conditions of storage of ammunition.


Ablation protection of the Buran spacecraft in the context


Uncontrolled ammunition is under question, since the uneven destruction of the ablative protection from laser radiation can change the external ballistics, as a result of which the ammunition deviates from the target. If the ablative protection is already used somewhere, for example, in hypersonic ammunition, then its thickness will have to be increased.

Another method of protection is constructive coating or housing design with several protective layers of refractory materials that are resistant to external influences.

If we draw an analogy with spacecraft, then we can consider the thermal protection of the reusable Buran spacecraft. In areas where the surface temperature is 371 - 1260 degrees Celsius, a coating was applied consisting of amorphous silica fiber 99,7% purity, to which is added a binder - colloidal silicon dioxide. The coating is made in the form of tiles of two sizes with thickness from 5 to 64 mm.

Borosilicate glass containing a special pigment (white coating based on silicon oxide and shiny alumina) is applied to the outer surface of the tiles in order to obtain a small absorption coefficient of solar radiation and a high emission coefficient. Ablation protection was used on the nose fairing and the toes of the wing of the apparatus, where temperatures exceed 1260 degrees.

It should be borne in mind that during long-term operation, the protection of tiles against moisture may be impaired, which will lead to the loss of thermal protection of their properties, so it cannot be directly used as an anti-laser protection on reusable aircrafts.


Spaceship "Buran". White and black tiles - reusable heat protection, black elements of the nose and wing edges - ablative heat protection



The thickness of the thermal protection of the spacecraft "Buran" depending on temperature


At the moment, a promising ablative thermal protection is being developed with minimal surface wear, which protects aircraft from temperature to 3000 degrees.

A group of scientists from the Royce Institute at the University of Manchester (UK) and the Central Southern University (China) developed a new material with improved characteristics that can withstand temperatures up to 3000 ° C without structural changes. This is a Zr0.8Ti0.2C0.74B0.26 ceramic coating that is superimposed on the carbon-carbon composite matrix. According to its characteristics, the new coating significantly exceeds the best high-temperature ceramics.

The chemical structure of heat-resistant ceramics itself plays the role of a protective mechanism. At temperature 2000 ° C, Zr0.8Ti0.2C0.74B0.26 and SiC materials oxidize and turn into Zr0.80T0.20O2, B2O3 and SiO2, respectively. Zr0.80Ti0.20O2 partially melts and forms a relatively dense layer, and oxides with a low melting point of SiO2 and B2O3 evaporate. At a higher temperature 2500 ° C, Zr0.80Ti0.20O2 crystals melt into larger formations. At 3000 ° C, an almost completely dense outer layer is formed, mainly consisting of Zr0.80Ti0.20O2, zirconium titanate and SiO2.


The dark gray surface of the material before testing, as well as the surface after two minutes of testing at 2000 ° C and 2500 ° C. In the center of the right sample is the area where the flame temperature reached 3000 ° C


The world is developing and special coatings designed to protect against laser radiation.

A representative of the People’s Liberation Army of China, back in 2014, said that American lasers do not pose a particular danger to Chinese military equipment sheathed with a special protective layer. There are only questions left: what kind of power, from lasers, does this coating protect, and which has thickness and mass.

Of greatest interest is the coating developed by American researchers from the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the University of Kansas - an aerosol composition based on a mixture of carbon nanotubes and special ceramics that can effectively absorb laser light. Nanotubes of the new material uniformly absorb light and transfer heat to nearby areas, reducing the temperature at the point of contact with the laser beam. Ceramic high-temperature joints provide the protective coating with high mechanical strength and resistance to high temperature damage.

During the tests, a thin layer of material was deposited on the copper surface and, after drying, focused a beam of a long-wave infrared laser, a laser used for cutting metal and other hard materials, on the material surface.

Analysis of the collected data showed that the coating successfully absorbed 97.5 percent of the laser beam energy and without failure sustained the energy level in 15 kW per square centimeter of surface.

On this coating, the question arises: in testing, the protective coating was applied to the copper surface, which itself is one of the most difficult materials to be treated with a laser, because of its high thermal conductivity, it is unclear how it will behave such a protective coating with other materials. Also, there are questions about its maximum temperature resistance, resistance to vibration and shock loads, exposure to atmospheric conditions and ultraviolet radiation (sun). Not specified time during which the exposure was carried out.

Another interesting point: if the aircraft engines are also covered with a substance with high thermal conductivity, then the whole body will be uniformly heated from them, which unmasks the aircraft in the thermal spectrum to the maximum.


The cutting speed of copper is the smallest of all metals in the table due to the high thermal conductivity; perhaps, the developers of the protective material did not accidentally choose this material as a substrate for testing, trying to inflate the characteristics of their design


In any case, the characteristics of the above aerosol protection will be in direct proportion to the size of the protected object. The larger the protected object and the coverage area, the more energy can be scattered over the area and given in the form of thermal radiation and cooling by the oncoming air flow. The smaller the protected object, the thicker you will have to do protection, because a small area will not allow enough heat to be diverted and the internal structural elements will be overheated.

The use of protection from laser radiation, whether ablative or constructive insulating, can reverse the tendency to reduce the size of guided ammunition, significantly reducing the effectiveness of both guided and non-guided munitions.

All bearing surfaces and controls - wings, stabilizers, steering wheels, have to be made from expensive and difficult to process refractory materials.

Separately, the question arises on the protection of radar detection equipment. On the experimental spacecraft "BOR-5" radio transparent thermal protection was tested - fiberglass with silica filler, but I could not find its thermal protection and weight and size characteristics.

It is still unclear whether, as a result of irradiation of radomes of reconnaissance radar tools with high-power laser radiation, even with protection from thermal radiation, a high-temperature plasma formation can appear that interferes with the passage of radio waves, as a result of which the target may be lost.

To protect the case, it will be possible to use a combination of several protective layers - heat-resistant, low heat-conducting from the inside and reflective-heat-resistant-high heat-conducting from the outside. It is also possible that materials will be applied on top of the protection from laser radiation to ensure stealth, which cannot withstand laser radiation, and will have to be restored after receiving damage from a laser weapon if the aircraft itself has survived.

It can be assumed that the improvement and widespread use of laser weapons will require the provision of laser protection against all available ammunition, both guided and unguided, as well as manned and unmanned aerial vehicles.

The introduction of laser-free protection will inevitably lead to an increase in the cost and weight and size characteristics of guided and unguided munitions, as well as manned and unmanned aerial vehicles.


In conclusion, we can mention one of the developed methods of active counteraction to a laser attack. The company Adsys Controls, located in California, is developing a protective system Helios, which should bring down the enemy's laser guidance.

When you hover the enemy's combat laser on the protected Helios device, it determines its parameters: power, wavelength, pulse frequency, direction and distance to the source. In the future, Helios prevents the enemy's laser beam from focusing on the target, presumably by aiming the oncoming low-energy laser beam, which confuses the enemy's guidance system. Detailed characteristics of the Helios system, the stage of its development and its practical performance are still unknown.
Author:
Photos used:
nanonewsnet.ru, habr.com, tydexoptics.com, findpatent.ru, popmech.ru, bastion-karpenko.ru, epizodsspace.airbase.ru, buran.ru
Articles from this series:
Laser weapons: technology, history, status, prospects. Part of 1
Laser weapons: prospects in the air force. Part of 2
Laser weapons: ground forces and air defense. Part of 3
Laser weapons: navy. Part of 4
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  1. Horse, people and soul April 7 2019 18: 51 New
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    There are experimental artificial materials with 100% reflection.


    I thought that the “absolute reflector” exists only in the world of science fiction writers (“The Country of Crimson Clouds” A. and B. Strugatsky)

    I read about the experimental material "vice versa", absorbing almost 100%. This surface consists of hollow "black" spheres with a hole to the outside. Once in the hole, the light did not come out. Nearly.
    1. SRC P-15 April 7 2019 19: 00 New
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      I wonder how the laser beam works in heavy rain? And they can cause showers in us - the residents of the Moscow region will not let them lie: "after the dispersal of clouds" for holidays in Moscow, it rains in the region for several days. sad
      Your laser will not be able to beam
      Punch Moscow terrible clouds! yes
      1. Horse, people and soul April 7 2019 19: 28 New
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        The battlefield for the laser is above the clouds and in space. Everything below the clouds is only available to the X-ray laser, at whose expense I am not sure that it exists at all.
        1. SRC P-15 April 7 2019 19: 40 New
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          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          The battlefield for the laser is above the clouds and in space. Everything below the clouds is only available to the X-ray laser, at whose expense I am not sure that it exists at all.

          But what about the use of a laser in the navy and in the land forces? Yes, and airplanes can fly in thick clouds (as well as cruise missiles) - then the laser can not get them either from the earth or from space. recourse We'll have to remember our native air defense and air defense missile systems. yes
          1. Shopping Mall April 7 2019 20: 23 New
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            Quote: SRC P-15
            Quote: Horse, people and soul
            The battlefield for the laser is above the clouds and in space. Everything below the clouds is only available to the X-ray laser, at whose expense I am not sure that it exists at all.

            But what about the use of a laser in the navy and in the land forces? Yes, and airplanes can fly in thick clouds (as well as cruise missiles) - then the laser can not get them either from the earth or from space. recourse We'll have to remember our native air defense and air defense missile systems. yes


            There are many examples in history when a particular weapon depended on the weather. You can swing a sword in any weather conditions, and in a thick fog with a sniper rifle you can not shoot anyone, but this is not a reason to change a rifle with a sword.

            Quite recently, by historical standards, rockets in-in could not be aimed at a target against the background of the earth, only at a contrast target (against the sky), but they were not abandoned, refined, and now we are talking about whether a close air battle is possible. basically.
      2. Shopping Mall April 7 2019 20: 20 New
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        Quote: SRC P-15
        I wonder how the laser beam works in heavy rain? And they can cause showers in us - the residents of the Moscow region will not let them lie: "after the dispersal of clouds" for holidays in Moscow, it rains in the region for several days. sad
        Your laser will not be able to beam
        Punch Moscow terrible clouds! yes


        From a military point of view, this is a very inert and non-linear phenomenon, in other words it is difficult to predict. In order to cause rain, they pour silver iodide in tons, in my opinion, in combat conditions it is difficult to implement.
    2. Shopping Mall April 7 2019 20: 18 New
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      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      There are experimental artificial materials with 100% reflection.


      I thought that the “absolute reflector” exists only in the world of science fiction writers (“The Country of Crimson Clouds” A. and B. Strugatsky)

      I read about the experimental material "vice versa", absorbing almost 100%. This surface consists of hollow "black" spheres with a hole to the outside. Once in the hole, the light did not come out. Nearly.


      Now there are a lot of experiments with metamaterials, the properties of which are due to their structure, not their composition. In the future, they can make a revolution in science and technology.
    3. Locksmith April 7 2019 21: 18 New
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      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      I read about the experimental material "vice versa", absorbing almost 100%. This surface consists of hollow "black" spheres with a hole to the outside. Once in the hole, the light did not come out. Nearly.

      This material is called epoxy resin glass fiber. wink , or another filler such as carbon fiber, but the fact is that laser cutting is extremely poor.
    4. Avior April 8 2019 00: 33 New
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      for optical fiber, the internal reflection from the walls is close to 100 percent
  2. Nikolaevich I April 7 2019 18: 52 New
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    The use of protection from laser radiation, whether ablative or constructive insulating, can reverse the tendency to reduce the size of guided ammunition, significantly reducing the effectiveness of both guided and non-guided munitions. Since this has already been read in the previous works of the Author, then, perhaps, we can interpret his words as follows: the defense will take so many “dimensions” from the ammunition that there will be “figs” for explosives! wink I want to remind the distinguished author about the 2 "newest" concepts: 1.talka swarm for a mini-UAV; and 2. "fire storm" in artillery ... "the essence" is this: a certain amount of "low-power" ammunition "at once" attacks the target ... One more sentence: the leading missiles ... "laser-resistant"! Intended for "clearing" paths for "traditional" missiles ... hitting enemy laser weapons, guided by the combat laser beam of this weapon. It is not necessary to change the entire arsenal and create "heavy, overall, highly protected, but low-power" ammunition! It is enough to create special, highly protected "laser-free" leader missiles! At the same time, the modernization of the “old” missiles with the aim of imparting a relatively cheap, “enveloping” laser-resistant 1 class protection (!) .. like in bullet-proof vests ... 1 class ... 5 class .. as if the "reincarnation" of the previous aviation tactics: aviation PR-missiles destroys the formidable air defense system, "knocks" ,, well-proportioned ,, air defense system and ... "blissful"! In this case, the same aviation, for example, clears its way for itself with "anti-laser" rockets ... suppresses "laser" air defense and punishes the adversary with "traditional" weapons ..
    PS Eh, something else "said", but already there is no time!
    1. Shopping Mall April 7 2019 20: 49 New
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      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      The use of protection from laser radiation, whether ablative or constructive insulating, can reverse the tendency to reduce the size of guided ammunition, significantly reducing the effectiveness of both guided and non-guided munitions. Since this has already been read in the previous works of the Author, then, perhaps, we can interpret his words as follows: the defense will take so many “dimensions” from the ammunition that there will be “figs” for explosives! wink


      PMSM will decrease efficiency in 1,5-2 times.

      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      I want to remind the distinguished author about the 2 "newest" concepts: 1.talka swarm for a mini-UAV; and 2. "fire storm" in artillery ... "essence" is as follows: a certain amount of "low-power" ammunition "at once" attacks the target ...


      The glut of air defense is quite a reasonable tactic, but not cheap. Too "mini" UAV can not be protected, they will burn from the laser like a match, it is possible that they will be bent from EW facilities.

      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Another suggestion: leader missiles ... "laser-resistant"! Intended for "clearing" paths for "traditional" missiles ... hitting enemy laser weapons, guided by the combat laser beam of this weapon. It is not necessary to change the entire arsenal and create "heavy, overall, highly protected, but low-power" ammunition! It is enough to create special, highly protected "laser-free" leader missiles!


      The laser should not be alone, it should interact with the air defense system. Such a cool and expensive rocket can and shoot down wink

      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      At the same time, the modernization of the “old” missiles with the aim of imparting a relatively cheap, “enveloping” laser-resistant 1 class protection (!) .. like in bullet-proof vests ... 1 class ... 5 class .. as if the "reincarnation" of the previous aviation tactics: aviation PR-missiles destroys the formidable air defense system, "knocks" ,, well-proportioned ,, air defense system and ... "blissful"! In this case, the same aviation, for example, clears its way for itself with "anti-laser" rockets ... suppresses "laser" air defense and punishes the adversary with "traditional" weapons ..
      PS Eh, something else "said", but already there is no time!


      In any case, one way or another, but lasers will have to get used to, and somehow adapt against them. Actually, with a series of articles I tried to convey the idea that laser weapons are not fiction from Star Wars, but a close reality, which, in my opinion, very clearly shows the work of the Rheinmetall company. They work very consistently and show all intermediate steps. I’m not at all surprised that their complexes will end up in Israel if their own developments slip.

      And so - a shield and a sword!
      1. Nikolaevich I April 8 2019 03: 56 New
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        One feels that the distinguished author is well prepared to repel the "raids of the barbarians"! Or .... dressed in a "bullet-proof vest" and with a bat in his hand, like an experienced batter is ready to beat off all the "balls"! But, still try to pour mineral water to the Author in a glass of champagne ... 1.
        Quote: AVM
        The glut of air defense is quite a reasonable tactic, but not cheap. Too "mini" UAV can not be protected, they will burn from the laser like a match, it is possible that they will be bent from EW facilities.

        Not cheap ... yes it is. But didn’t you notice how the armament goes up in the "last few decades"? How much did the tank cost, the aircraft of the times 2МВ, and how many F-16, Cy-30 / 35, F-35, Cy-57? How much did SS-10 cost and how much does Javelin cost? And what's “interesting” ... after all, the military and state-wah “get used” to it! But to hope that the attacking ammunition will "burn like matches" from a laser and bend down like flies from EW is not a 100% guaranteed deal! Because it is not verified! And it turns out that these are "unfounded" statements! wink (Especially ... I meant not only mini-UAVs, but also high-speed missiles, projectiles (HVR), using "swarming tactics" ... simultaneous attacks from several directions.
        2.
        Quote: AVM
        The laser should not be alone, it should interact with the air defense system. Such a cool and expensive rocket can and shoot down

        So, and "anti-laser" missiles will not be alone, but in company with anti-radar missiles! And the "traditional" EW will apply! And "special anti-laser" attack aircraft equipped with "anti-laser" missiles and "defensive" lasers will be accompanied by EW aircraft and carriers of PR-missiles ... And the "anti-missile" air defense aviation, at the very least, has learned to overcome! And the "showdown" between Syria and Israel shows it ...
        3. mirror rocket or projectile will need to be stored in a container filled with inert gas. The slightest turbidity or stain, for example, from handprints, immediately worsen the reflectivity of the mirror.

        The exit from the container immediately exposes the mirror surface to the environment - the atmosphere and heat exposure. If the mirror surface is not covered with a protective film, it will immediately lead to a deterioration of its reflective properties, and if it is covered with a protective coating, it will itself deteriorate the reflective properties of the surface.
        In the comments to the previous article, I spoke "against" mirror protection ... now we will stand "for" ...
        A “mirror” rocket does not have to be stored in a “container with gas” ... you can use a thin shell “cover-casing” (and perhaps not one!). And to reset the "cover" not immediately after launch, but in flight: a) upon command; b) programmed; c) by sensor ... d) in case of damage by laser (when there is more than one shell ...)
        4. There are experimental artificial materials with 100% reflection, but they only work for a specific wavelength. But after all, "non-tunable" lasers with one fixed wavelength are being used ... Again ... "wavelength" protective shells- "covers" ...
        5.Of course, it is impossible to apply smoke or aerosol protection against aircraft. Due to the high speed of the aircraft, the smoke or aerosol will always be blown back by the oncoming air pressure, for helicopters they will be blown away by the air flow from the propeller. I propose: a) to dilute combat "orders" of combat missiles with missiles-simulators-traps with smoke (aerosol forming) "warheads". Such "smoke generators" in turn (in two and several lines ...) advancing forward work, forming a smoke (aerosol) protection ... (although short-term, but repeatedly ...). b) creating a smoke screen at the laser position; c) the creation of artificially low dense clouds in the area of ​​the disposition of lasers ...
        PS Phew! I'm already tired! You're right ! Everything said by you and me can be expressed in one short phrase: "competition" of the sword and shield! hi
      2. voyaka uh April 8 2019 14: 33 New
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        "The laser should not be alone, it must interact with the SAM" ////
        ----
        That's right. The laser will be integrated into the LMS of the SAM with a common radar.
        Comp will automatically decide whether to shoot: a beam or a rocket.
      3. psiho117 April 8 2019 18: 42 New
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        Quote: AVM
        In any case, one way or another, but you have to get used to the lasers, and somehow adapt against them.

        That's it, and I also say that the era of penny RPGs and air defense systems, burning super-expensive targets - is coming to an end. In the future, significant tricks will be required to overcome active and passive defense systems (tanks, for example).
        Armored vehicles become very expensive, and aviation in general will remain the lot of only the most advanced powers.

        Regarding the laser’s ability to shoot down ordinary cast-iron shells, especially during salvo firing, I still have very big doubts ... hi
  3. Horse, people and soul April 7 2019 18: 59 New
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    And if the device moves in a plasma cloud? Can a laser do him notable damage?

    It does not have to be a natural plasma cloud around a hypersonic device. This may be a plasma generated by a device in the device itself, moving at a slower speed.
    1. Shopping Mall April 7 2019 20: 40 New
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      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      And if the device moves in a plasma cloud? Can a laser do him notable damage?

      It does not have to be a natural plasma cloud around a hypersonic device. This may be a plasma generated by a device in the device itself, moving at a slower speed.


      Which side? How to close the whole apparatus with plasma and what intensity? What to do with its ablation by air flow? How to see / guide through it?
      1. Horse, people and soul April 7 2019 21: 12 New
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        Pot idea, you can generate plasma like an air cavity, as in the Flurry rocket. A flurry flies in water using an air cavity. The atmospheric device flies in a less dense environment using plasma instead of a cavity.

        How to manage is a big problem, unless you drag along some long antenna wire.

        Everything is very theoretical, purely speculative and completely from a NON-Specialist.
        1. psiho117 April 8 2019 20: 46 New
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          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          How to manage is a big problem, unless you drag along some long antenna wire.

          Will burn. And if it is made heat-resistant, then either the weight will be excessive, or it will become impervious to signal reception.
  4. bk0010 April 7 2019 19: 56 New
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    Phrase
    Summarizing the above, we note: mirror protection is not very suitable for protection against laser weapons

    completely incompatible with
    An ordinary aluminum-coated mirror reflects approximately 95% of the incident radiation

    Increasing the required beam power 20 times is awesome!
    Of all the materials shown in the graph, the highest reflectance of aluminum, which is by no means a refractory material
    Do not care: it is needed only to form a mirror, under it ablation armor.
    At a wavelength of less than 200 nm, the efficiency of the mirrors drops sharply, i.e. against ultraviolet or x-ray radiation (free electron laser) such protection will not work at all.

    - in service will be a large range of lasers from different manufacturers operating at different wavelengths;
    We read about the "window of transparency of the atmosphere." Weapon lasers will have wavelengths from 0,3 μm to 1,5-2 μm, otherwise you will simply heat the air.
    In any case, the rotation of the aircraft will only slightly reduce the effect of laser radiation on the target, since the heat transferred by the powerful laser radiation to the hull will be transferred to the internal structures and further along all the components of the aircraft.
    The rotation of the aircraft will not allow the beam to act on the bare body, substituting all new layers of ablative armor.
    Of course, it is impossible to apply smoke or aerosol protection against aircraft.
    Against - of course it is impossible, for the benefit - it is possible. Air parades watched? There, with the smoke from airplanes, all sorts of figures are drawn to the whole sky. What prevents the same crap to attach a cruise missile to the nose and turn it on when the radiation detector is triggered?
    Ablation protection is disposable, heavy and voluminous, so it makes no sense to use it on reusable aircraft (read not all manned, and most unmanned aerial vehicles).
    The task is not to survive the entire flight under the influence of radiation, the task is to survive the 1-2 pulse, after which either the flight will end (for missiles and projectiles) or active means of protection will work (such as curtains). That is, ablative armor is reusable, cheap and light (even from tin, if only the case would cool when evaporating), perhaps instead of paint.
    1. Shopping Mall April 7 2019 20: 32 New
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      Quote: bk0010
      Increasing the required beam power 20 times is awesome!


      The idea is that the remaining 5% instantly spoil the mirror, and then the process develops like an avalanche. And also, if it is covered with something, then the coating also deteriorates, or immediately after the start the mirror pokes the atmosphere.

      Quote: bk0010
      Do not care: it is needed only to form a mirror, under it ablation armor.


      What kind of mirror? It will melt from the first impulse. It makes no sense to mirror the ablative protection.

      Quote: bk0010
      We read about the "window of transparency of the atmosphere." Weapon lasers will have wavelengths from 0,3 μm to 1,5-2 μm, otherwise you will simply heat the air.


      The density of the atmosphere varies with altitude, the highest density is less than a kilometer from the ground, then the laser is much simpler when it comes to airplanes.

      Quote: bk0010
      The rotation of the aircraft will not allow the beam to act on the bare body, substituting all new layers of ablative armor.


      If it is. About that and the speech that it should be put on all ammunition and how it will affect. And not everything can be rotated.

      Quote: bk0010
      Against - of course it is impossible, for the benefit - it is possible. Air parades watched? There, with the smoke from airplanes, all sorts of figures are drawn to the whole sky. What prevents the same crap to attach a cruise missile to the nose and turn it on when the radiation detector is triggered?


      Rocket speed Everything will fly back.

      Quote: bk0010
      The task is not to survive the entire flight under the influence of radiation, the task is to survive the 1-2 pulse, after which either the flight will end (for missiles and projectiles) or active means of protection will work (such as curtains). That is, ablative armor is reusable, cheap and light (even from tin, if only the case would cool when evaporating), perhaps instead of paint.


      It would be so simple, then the "Unions" would be wrapped with tin, but no, they were busy with tiles made of graphite-graphite materials.
      1. bk0010 April 7 2019 22: 53 New
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        Quote: AVM
        The point is that the remaining 5% will instantly ruin the mirror, and then the process develops like an avalanche.
        Spoiled the mirror, I agree. What process develops further? Or do you think that a cw laser will be involved in interception? After the shot, the laser needs to cool and charge the capacitors. In order to use a damaged mirror, one does not have to get into a projectile, but in the vicinity of the same point on a moving target in an imperfect atmosphere, which is problematic.
        Quote: AVM
        What kind of mirror? It will melt from the first impulse. It makes no sense to mirror the ablative protection.
        And God bless her, let it melt, we just need to slip through the area of ​​laser air defense, it's seconds. If you make such ablation armor as you described, then it may not be necessary, but if the simplest, cheapest, then attenuation of the beam by 20 times is useful.
        Quote: AVM
        The density of the atmosphere varies with altitude, the highest density is less than a kilometer from the ground, then the laser is much simpler when it comes to airplanes.
        Are you writing about ground-based air defense or about an air-based laser? If it’s about the ground, then a drop in air density will not help him: the beam will begin to turn air into plasma at low altitudes, it simply won’t reach large ones.
        Quote: AVM
        Rocket speed Everything will fly back.
        Let it fly. While the smoke generator is working, the rocket carcass will be covered, and it can work for minutes. We don’t need so long - we’ll slip through the affected area faster (the laser only works in direct line of sight). If we defend a high-flying aircraft, then it can not only drag a supply of smoke generators, but also simply throw a rocket, the main thing is to survive the first exposure.
        Quote: AVM
        It would be so simple, then the "Unions" would be wrapped with tin, but no, they were busy with tiles made of graphite-graphite materials.
        The descent block goes in plasma for minutes, dissipating colossal energy. Our task is much simpler: not to allow the apparatus to heat up to a loss of structural strength by 1-2 hits, there you can get off much cheaper (IMHO, of course).
        1. voyaka uh April 8 2019 14: 39 New
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          "laser shots need to cool and charge the capacitors" ////
          ----
          Capacitors are discharged (and charged) in turn, with a large "rate" of pulses. No time is needed to cool down the laser - efficiency lasers are very grown
          heat loss decreased.
          1. bk0010 April 8 2019 15: 59 New
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            To charge capacitors with a high rate of fire, you need a lot of energy. Do you have a power station with you or is there some kind of diesel generator?
            Even if the efficiency has been increased to 50%, in order to get 100 kW at the output (not on the target, but at the output) you need to carefully (because it’s not a steam boiler, but a complex product) dissipate 200 kW of heat, so that there are no distortions caused by uneven cooling, that is, pouring liquid nitrogen over is not an option.
            1. voyaka uh April 8 2019 16: 08 New
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              "You have a power station with you" ////
              ----
              Yes. On large warships, on which they begin to mount short-range air defense / missile defense lasers, provide power
              for energy-intensive weapons.
              At ground-based air defense, power supply is placed in the volume of a standard sea container.
              1. psiho117 April 8 2019 19: 06 New
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                Quote: voyaka uh
                On large warships on which lasers of the near air defense / missile defense system begin to be mounted, power stations are provided

                on ships the laser is NOT NECESSARY. The fact that he can shoot down (plastic airplanes) is not dangerous for the ship, and generally it does not apply to the ship.
                And even a subsonic CRP, knock the penetrating warhead, the laser stupidly can not.
                In addition, a sea-based laser beam catastrophically scatters in the humid salty air, even in clear weather.
                In ground defense air power is placed in the amount of a standard sea container

                no matter in what volume, it is important where these, (simultaneously singled out!) 100-200 kW go. And then another impulse. and more, and more, and more.
                It is impossible to splash out, it is impossible to carry an industrial refrigerator with an ammonia tank behind you.
                That's where?
                ZY for some reason this question is overlooked, and he, in fact, is one of the most fundamental. Let me remind you that, for example, the cooling system of the Laser Boeing - could not cope with its task, and the shooting down of two targets in a row caused him great difficulties.
                And there the dimensions were hoo, where there is a “standard sea container”.
                1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 20: 16 New
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                  Quote: psiho117
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  On large warships on which lasers of the near air defense / missile defense system begin to be mounted, power stations are provided

                  on ships the laser is NOT NECESSARY. The fact that he can shoot down (plastic airplanes) is not dangerous for the ship, and generally it does not apply to the ship.
                  And even a subsonic CRP, knock the penetrating warhead, the laser stupidly can not.
                  In addition, a sea-based laser beam catastrophically scatters in the humid salty air, even in clear weather.
                  In ground defense air power is placed in the amount of a standard sea container

                  no matter in what volume, it is important where these, (simultaneously singled out!) 100-200 kW go. And then another impulse. and more, and more, and more.
                  It is impossible to splash out, it is impossible to carry an industrial refrigerator with an ammonia tank behind you.
                  That's where?
                  ZY for some reason this question is overlooked, and he, in fact, is one of the most fundamental. Let me remind you that, for example, the cooling system of the Laser Boeing - could not cope with its task, and the shooting down of two targets in a row caused him great difficulties.
                  And there the dimensions were hoo, where there is a “standard sea container”.



                  Laser boeing is an outdated technology, very specific.

                  And how are mobile GTPPs or powerful diesel generators cooled? Or a gas turbine in a tank power 1500 hp? In the atmosphere you can come up with something.

                  Diesel on a trailer from 100 kW - http://www.profpower.ru/product/peredvizhnoj-dizelnyj-generator-tss-prof-ed-100-t400-2rpm5-v-kozhuhe-s-avr/

                  400 kW - http://www.brizmotors.ru/equipment/mobile_gensets/

                  There are more powerful ones, but their efficiency is not 100%, which is good if 50%. Those. somehow derive 400 kW of heat output when operating in constant mode.

                  In modern fiber laser 100 kW, the efficiency is already on the order of 40%, they are going to bring it to 50%, and 80% are theoretically achievable. Those. With the efficiency of 40%, we must dissipate the entire 150 kW of heat.
                  1. psiho117 April 8 2019 20: 21 New
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                    Quote: AVM
                    Those. With the efficiency of 40%, we must dissipate the entire 150 kW of heat.

                    just about, simultaneously. And then more, more, and more.
                    and this energy is not allocated to the blinds of the diesel engine, but to the lenses and electronic components.
                    Here's how to dispel it?
                    1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 21: 06 New
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                      Quote: psiho117
                      Quote: AVM
                      Those. With the efficiency of 40%, we must dissipate the entire 150 kW of heat.

                      just about, simultaneously. And then more, more, and more.
                      and this energy is not allocated to the blinds of the diesel engine, but to the lenses and electronic components.
                      Here's how to dispel it?


                      Not really. What we are talking about, the efficiency of the 40% laser, is what the fiber laser units emit from which the required power is summed, they are distributed, and the cooling system is integrated into them.

                      And on the lenses, where the output radiation is reduced, with a multilayer coating, the thermal effect will depend on their transparency. For example, if they transmit 99,9% of the light at the wavelength of the laser in which they are placed, then for the 100 kW-h laser it will be 100 W.
  5. AsmyppoL April 7 2019 20: 28 New
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    Read with interest. Thanks to the author for the work done.
    It is a pity that he did not offer any of his model of using various types of aircraft ...
    And so this is a perception of the problem, unfortunately ...
    Absorption coefficient of laser radiation is only one of the parameters. If you use the author specified coeff. absorption of 0,95, then from the material it follows that it will be absorbed by the metal body of the entire 5% of the thermal energy of the laser beam. At the same time, there is absolutely no mention of the angle of reflection, which will further weaken the absorbed heat flux.
    And here it is already necessary to propose his own model of tactics for the use of aircraft with the danger of exposure to laser weapons. How does this relate to heat flow? This is the irradiation angle of the skin of the apparatus when moving along the path, its time in the irradiation zone, the number of vehicles needed to hit a ground target, the accuracy of the laser beam pointing, and so on.
    When the machine moves to the laser setup or at the angle angle 1 / 4, the angle of reflection will have a significant effect. In this case, the area of ​​the irradiation spot on the skin increases. Therefore, the most effective radiation from the side surface.
    In this case, the exposure time is reduced.
    The author probably does not know that the aircraft do not fly along the ideal line. They drift up and down. Here, the accuracy of pointing the beam and concentrating it on the point of the body parallel to the longitudinal axis of the device already plays - in this case the angle of reflection is minimal ...
    The author's conclusion about the inefficiency of the rotational motion of the aircraft without estimates is not convincing. For example, in X-ray laser tubes, tube rotation was a very effective way to cool tubes in vacuum. Assuming that the aircraft is irradiated with a laser beam having a sufficiently high power of 300 kW, then the skin will in the ideal case take 15 kW. What heat flow will be discharged into the environment during rotation? With a high thermal conductivity of the housing, the area of ​​heat removal will increase by several orders of magnitude. The presence of heat-resistant insulation under the metal case can provide the required temperature reduction during the necessary time the aircraft is in the affected area. The decision has long been known. For example, ATM mats or MBVP. There are also solid materials with low thermal conductivity ...
    As long as the laser will hit one or two targets, there is no guarantee that the third will not cover the laser installation itself .... And their costs are incommensurable ...
    We have not even considered the presence of sensors for exposure detection (heating) and measures on the body during (or even before irradiation) maneuvering the apparatus on the ground.
    1. AsmyppoL April 8 2019 16: 14 New
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      Regarding the laser with a power 300 kW was not quite right ...
      An assessment was made of the 3 mm heating of the aluminum cladding of an aircraft that does not perform a rotary motion. 5% of the thermal power of the laser beam is absorbed. The patch on the skin during the flight affects the same point on the surface. For the “from the lantern” assessment, the following data was given: The aircraft moved at a height of 2000 m with Mach number 0,8 before the start of laser irradiation. The subsequent decrease occurred at an angle of attack of 30 degrees. The irradiation occurred at the angle angle 3 / 4. For simplicity, a spot with dimensions 100x100 mm was considered.
      It turns out that on the 4 second point, the temperature in the spot reaches 470 degrees and then the material softens and the plating part loses strength.
    2. psiho117 April 8 2019 19: 15 New
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      Quote: AsmyppoL
      What heat flow will be discharged into the environment during rotation?

      And you can also make the external false corpus rotate on the bearings. an air stream passes under it, and cools both the outer and the inner hull.
      Rotation is trite from the oncoming flow, polished luminous casing, on a heat-conducting substrate.
      A part will be reflected, a part will go to the evaporation of a rotating outer layer, another part will heat the constantly cooled substrate.
      and only then come the turn of the main body, which can also be protected for everyone.
      1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 20: 01 New
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        Quote: psiho117
        Quote: AsmyppoL
        What heat flow will be discharged into the environment during rotation?

        And you can also make the external false corpus rotate on the bearings. an air stream passes under it, and cools both the outer and the inner hull.
        Rotation is trite from the oncoming flow, polished luminous casing, on a heat-conducting substrate.
        A part will be reflected, a part will go to the evaporation of a rotating outer layer, another part will heat the constantly cooled substrate.
        and only then come the turn of the main body, which can also be protected for everyone.


        Too much mechanics and fuss. It's easier all the same, probably, to put thermal insulation on top of a refractory material. On the other hand, perhaps something like this is also realized, maybe even without rotation, just a refractory material, and between it and the main body a gap in order to minimize heat transfer and double the cooling by the oncoming air flow.

        The only question is how to close the homing head - IR, TV, radar.
        1. psiho117 April 8 2019 20: 12 New
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          Quote: AVM
          the question is how to close the homing heads - IR, TV, radar.

          It seems to me that when blinding the GOS, the teams should go through the backup channel from the next missile / UAV guidance. Either they will go back a step - the rocket does not have a GOS, and control is done by holding the rocket in the alignment of a radio or laser beam directed from the platform that launched the launch / UAV guidance.
          In general, it seems to me that a second wind will follow in systems like "Chrysanthemum" and "Starstreak" - they are most resistant to both EW and laser blinding
          1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 20: 18 New
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            Quote: psiho117
            Quote: AVM
            the question is how to close the homing heads - IR, TV, radar.

            It seems to me that when blinding the GOS, the teams should go through the backup channel from the next missile / UAV guidance. Either they will go back a step - the rocket does not have a GOS, and control is done by holding the rocket in the alignment of a radio or laser beam directed from the platform that launched the launch / UAV guidance.
            In general, it seems to me that a second wind will follow in systems like "Chrysanthemum" and "Starstreak" - they are most resistant to both EW and laser blinding


            That is, i.e. remote control, i.e. essentially a step back. And this is immediately a rejection of ARLGSN, the need to highlight the entire flight time (conditionally, to shine a rocket in the "ass"), and the concept of "shot and forget" can be forgotten.
            1. psiho117 April 8 2019 20: 53 New
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              Yeah, it’s either checkers or go bully
              Either shoot a swarm of expensive smart missiles from a safe distance and inevitably lose a part, or launch a cheap missile all the time to guarantee a target hit, but with a risk to the crew ..
              Hmm, something this reminds me ... I even know which country uses the first method, and which - the second, so cheap and cheerful ....
    3. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 20: 03 New
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      Quote: AsmyppoL
      Read with interest. Thanks to the author for the work done.
      It is a pity that he did not offer any of his model of using various types of aircraft ...
      And so this is a perception of the problem, unfortunately ...
      Absorption coefficient of laser radiation is only one of the parameters. If you use the author specified coeff. absorption of 0,95, then from the material it follows that it will be absorbed by the metal body of the entire 5% of the thermal energy of the laser beam. At the same time, there is absolutely no mention of the angle of reflection, which will further weaken the absorbed heat flux.
      And here it is already necessary to propose his own model of tactics for the use of aircraft with the danger of exposure to laser weapons. How does this relate to heat flow? This is the irradiation angle of the skin of the apparatus when moving along the path, its time in the irradiation zone, the number of vehicles needed to hit a ground target, the accuracy of the laser beam pointing, and so on.
      When the machine moves to the laser setup or at the angle angle 1 / 4, the angle of reflection will have a significant effect. In this case, the area of ​​the irradiation spot on the skin increases. Therefore, the most effective radiation from the side surface.
      In this case, the exposure time is reduced.
      The author probably does not know that the aircraft do not fly along the ideal line. They drift up and down. Here, the accuracy of pointing the beam and concentrating it on the point of the body parallel to the longitudinal axis of the device already plays - in this case the angle of reflection is minimal ...
      The author's conclusion about the inefficiency of the rotational motion of the aircraft without estimates is not convincing. For example, in X-ray laser tubes, tube rotation was a very effective way to cool tubes in vacuum. Assuming that the aircraft is irradiated with a laser beam having a sufficiently high power of 300 kW, then the skin will in the ideal case take 15 kW. What heat flow will be discharged into the environment during rotation? With a high thermal conductivity of the housing, the area of ​​heat removal will increase by several orders of magnitude. The presence of heat-resistant insulation under the metal case can provide the required temperature reduction during the necessary time the aircraft is in the affected area. The decision has long been known. For example, ATM mats or MBVP. There are also solid materials with low thermal conductivity ...
      As long as the laser will hit one or two targets, there is no guarantee that the third will not cover the laser installation itself .... And their costs are incommensurable ...
      We have not even considered the presence of sensors for exposure detection (heating) and measures on the body during (or even before irradiation) maneuvering the apparatus on the ground.


      Yes, you are right, without calculations, everything is rather abstract. But the calculations will take many volumes, especially considering how many options are available for wavelengths, curvature of the surface, angles of incidence, surface albedo, etc. etc. I can’t do it for sure hi
      1. AsmyppoL April 17 2019 18: 39 New
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        In principle, we spent a lot of interesting calculations that confirm declarative slogans and quotations in articles of the adversary ... I tried to post materials on the site - it did not work ...

        Laser systems and mortar bombs. It turns out that mortar mines are a weapon of terrorists. Laser installations hit mines fairly quickly and within the claimed numbers. After the “debriefing” on laser radiation, we came up with two options that allow us to practically reduce the effects of laser systems to a minimum, but why should terrorists improve their lives?)) With laser projectiles and hails, there is almost no chance ... not scary)))
  6. ares1988 April 7 2019 20: 32 New
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    The venturers from BAE Systems also offer this option:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rhWBAFAGwzE
    1. psiho117 April 8 2019 19: 20 New
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      Quote: ares1988
      Entrepreneurs from BAE Systems

      Now, these guys understand that after a series of pulses, the ground-based laser is stupidly overheated.
      And the idea of ​​forced ionization of the atmosphere itself is interesting .... Though very limited in use.
      1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 19: 57 New
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        Quote: psiho117
        Quote: ares1988
        Entrepreneurs from BAE Systems

        And the idea of ​​forced ionization of the atmosphere itself is interesting .... Though very limited in use.


        There is such an effect - defocusing of the laser in a plasma formation, but if I understood correctly, when the laser itself makes the plasma, then the process goes on self-defocusing, self-focusing, i.e. the beam does not diffuse.



        I thought about making an artificial lens on the path of the "enemy" laser "with my own" laser, but did not dare to write about it, because too many assumptions turn out to be not so much and unreal.
        1. psiho117 April 8 2019 20: 18 New
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          Quote: AVM
          I thought about making an artificial lens on the path of the "enemy" laser "with my own" laser, but did not dare to write about it, because too many assumptions turn out to be not so much and unreal.

          it can and is real - but not applicable.
          For it is only possible from an apparatus that follows somewhere in the stratosphere, then it can underneath it, in denser layers, to produce this very forced ionization.
          Well, in principle, a good option for a stratospheric hypersonic bomb - it’s only a pity that these bombers are out of date in the last century.
          1. Shopping Mall April 9 2019 08: 46 New
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            Quote: psiho117
            ... Well, in principle, a good option for a stratospheric hypersonic bomber - it is a pity that these bombers are outdated in the last century.


            Which ones?
            1. psiho117 April 9 2019 14: 54 New
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              I mean the very idea of ​​high-altitude bombers.
  7. Aviator_ April 7 2019 21: 45 New
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    It is, of course, informative, but there are minor flaws - the author of a plastic called nylon (as it will be in Russian) for some reason calls it "nylon" in English.
  8. Operator April 8 2019 00: 12 New
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    Protection from laser radiation is simple as a nail:
    in the atmosphere - a zigzag flight path;
    in space - ablation.
    1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 19: 53 New
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      Quote: Operator
      Protection from laser radiation is simple as a nail:
      in the atmosphere - a zigzag flight path;
      in space - ablation.


      About space is a separate conversation, maybe I'll come back to it.

      A zigzag trajectory is very energy-intensive. For example, in a rocket in-in or in-s, it will devour the whole energy, i.e. this is a reduction in range 2-3 times.

      The planning bomb is also not particularly maneuvering, as are the unguided mines and MLRS shells.
      1. Operator April 8 2019 21: 11 New
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        The zigzag trajectory is optimal for dropping speeds below 5M ballistic missiles in order to stop plasma formation and enter into operation of a radar or optical seeker.

        Protection for planning bombs and unguided artillery / rockets and mines is a leading laser-guided missile / missile.
        1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 22: 42 New
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          Quote: Operator
          The zigzag trajectory is optimal for dropping speeds below 5M ballistic missiles in order to stop plasma formation and enter into operation of a radar or optical seeker.


          The question is how to hide the GOS. The very blocks of ballistic missiles are already stable.

          Quote: Operator
          Protection for planning bombs and unguided artillery / rockets and mines is a leading laser-guided missile / missile.


          So far there are no such people and it is not clear what they should represent.
          1. Operator April 8 2019 22: 58 New
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            GOS is protected by a zigzag path, a nose cone of opaque (RGSN) or transparent ceramics (for example, AlON) and a protective filter (in the case of an optical GOS).

            GOS anti-laser ammunition (flying anti-zigzag) - an optical sensor with a protective filter located behind a transparent ceramic fairing.
            1. Shopping Mall April 9 2019 08: 37 New
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              Quote: Operator
              GOS is protected by a zigzag path, a nose cone of opaque (RGSN) or transparent ceramics (for example, AlON) and a protective filter (in the case of an optical GOS).

              GOS anti-laser ammunition (flying anti-zigzag) - an optical sensor with a protective filter located behind a transparent ceramic fairing.


              Zigzag trajectory does not help, because the target must be in the homing head capture zone, i.e. she has to look at the target. Otherwise, every time after the “zigzag” she will have to catch the target again.

              ALON from the bullets, although it is transparent, it is not known how it will behave with powerful laser radiation, perhaps it will instantly fade.

              If there is a high temperature radio transparent pottery, this can help for radar homing.

              But in optics, infrared and laser sensor nothing will come of nothing. Either the sensor does not see anything, or the laser will burn the optics. It is possible to make the filter not allowing a certain wavelength, but lasers from different manufacturers will have different wavelengths, sometimes with a slight offset, at what wavelength to close the view?

              And the resistance of such filters to powerful radiation also raises questions.

              What will transparent ceramics give to protect an optical sensor if it is transparent?
              1. Operator April 9 2019 18: 31 New
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                I agree to the RGSN.
  9. AlexTss April 8 2019 00: 20 New
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    Dear Andrew.
    Let me disagree with you about the ablation protection of "Buran".
    The only place where (on the "Buran") it was used was the ablation heat protection panels for the inter-elevational gap.
    This was mentioned on the site buran.ru where did you get the ship’s photos and the thermal load diagram.
    The elements of the nose fairing and nose of the wing are made of carbon-carbon composites.
    The fact is that the Buran, although orbital, is still an airplane. And for flying in the atmosphere, in the final section, he needs a very accurate form of these elements. Ablation protection does not provide this.
    In the process of defending the diploma, at one time, I had to really "taste" this topic.
    Now, fortunately, all this is not even chipboard smile
    On the same resource buran.ru, everything is very intelligently written and with photos even smile

    Ablation protection was on BOR-ah yes hi

    PS
    And in the photo “Ablation protection of the Buran spacecraft in the context” - this is just reusable tile wink
    Cool thing smile , looks like foam, only finer-grained, weighs almost nothing, and when the centimeter thickness of the sample is heated with an oxygen burner, on the back side, the temperature change by hand was almost not felt good
    Regards, Alexey hi
    1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 10: 31 New
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      Quote: AlexTss
      Dear Andrew.
      Let me disagree with you about the ablation protection of "Buran".
      The only place where (on the "Buran") it was used were ablative thermal protection panels for the inter-lumen gap ...


      You are right, I was confused by the phrase in one source: "On the nose cone and socks of the wing of the apparatus, where temperatures exceed 1260 ° C, carbon fiber-reinforced carbon material is used. In the process of returning the apparatus to Earth, this material is destroyed and it is necessary replace with a new one before each subsequent flight. "
      1. psiho117 April 8 2019 19: 30 New
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        Author, why did you not mention, so to speak, classical methods of countering anti-aircraft guns, just applied against lasers?
        Well, for example, the banal installation suppression - spec. anti-laser rocket (in the image of anti-radar), or shelling of barrel artillery (and the laser is a priori subject to its influence, because it is the front edge weapon, whose firing range is inferior even to a seedy MANPADS) and other similar measures?
        I'm not talking about using the weather conditions - to podgadat attack so that the lasers were minimally effective - a big mind is not necessary.
        1. Shopping Mall April 8 2019 19: 50 New
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          Quote: psiho117
          Author, why did you not mention, so to speak, classical methods of countering anti-aircraft guns, just applied against lasers?
          Well, for example, the banal installation suppression - spec. anti-laser rocket (in the image of anti-radar), or shelling of barrel artillery (and the laser is a priori subject to its influence, because it is the front edge weapon, whose firing range is inferior even to a seedy MANPADS) and other similar measures?
          I'm not talking about using the weather conditions - to podgadat attack so that the lasers were minimally effective - a big mind is not necessary.


          So far there are no "anti-laser" rockets, respectively, and there is nothing to talk about. Theoretically, the laser beam is heterogeneous, so there is a guidance in the laser beam like the ATGM "Cornet" or "Reflex". But there is a thin beam. To create sensors that, on the one hand, will distinguish where the beam has, conditionally, the middle and the edge, and at the same time withstand 30-100 kW of radiation is also a task.

          Barrel artillery shells are also likely to be exposed to laser air defense, with power from 100 kW. Of course, no one canceled the fire attack. But again, the laser is not a unique product, which will replace everything, no - it is an additional means of defense.
          Shells with guidance to the reflected radiation of a laser, such as "Krasnopol", homing head violence, even 5-15 kW will not withstand, what can we say about 100 kW and above.

          Podgadat weather is nice, but it is an unstable factor. And what if the logic of the attack requires action, and there is no rain? We will wait, how much? Or they began to advance to the position of attack, the attack itself, and the fog picked up and dissipated. And shelling from a distance of 40-100 km you need to know that there is a bad weather over the position of the laser to 5 km.

          And how bad weather reduces the efficiency of a powerful laser? On 50%? 30%? I have no exact data.
          1. psiho117 April 8 2019 20: 39 New
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            Quote: AVM
            And how bad weather reduces the efficiency of a powerful laser? On 50%? 30%? I have no exact data.

            up to 100% (rain, snow, dust storm).
            in the fog, normal rain - at least 60%
            The banal high humidity, already causes an increase in divergence of manholes. 30% ray.
            And to shoot from a laser over the sea is generally a perversion, at a height of 300m there are so much water vapor and salt crystals in the atmosphere that it does not make sense to shoot at all - huge energy losses and the divergence of the beam already on a few hundred meters.
            And yet, there remains an important factor in the formation of a plasma channel - it can easily damage or destroy the radiating unit. And still, on the ionized channel the lightning can rot.
            Barrel artillery shells are also likely to be exposed to laser air defense, with power from 100 kW.

            for cast iron 155mm projectiles you need a fairly powerful (or long) impact. Americans in reports indicated that they need a 200-300 kW laser.
            And it immediately pulls problems of size, power consumption, cooling, prices finally ... But the shells do not fly one by one!
            1. Shopping Mall April 9 2019 08: 45 New
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              Quote: psiho117
              Quote: AVM
              And how bad weather reduces the efficiency of a powerful laser? On 50%? 30%? I have no exact data.

              up to 100% (rain, snow, dust storm).


              Well, in a good dust storm and the KR or the plane may crash because of the clogged engine.

              Quote: psiho117
              in the fog, normal rain - at least 60%
              The banal high humidity, already causes an increase in divergence of manholes. 30% ray.


              For different wavelengths in different ways, it is hardly possible to reduce everything to a single digit.

              Quote: psiho117
              And to shoot from a laser over the sea is generally a perversion, at a height of 300m there are so much water vapor and salt crystals in the atmosphere that it does not make sense to shoot at all - huge energy losses and the divergence of the beam already on a few hundred meters.


              However, the Americans are going to do it, and the Germans, and Britain.

              Quote: psiho117
              And yet, there remains an important factor in the formation of a plasma channel - it can easily damage or destroy the radiating unit. And still, on the ionized channel the lightning can rot.


              Maybe theoretically. As far as I know, they tried to make laser lightning rods, but so far in the laboratory it is possible to get a plasma channel not more than a few tens of meters. It turns out intermittent.

              If it were possible to create a continuous channel, it would be a weapon. High-voltage discharge directly to the body of the enemy's aircraft, or high-frequency, such as local electromagnetic radiation.

              Quote: psiho117
              Barrel artillery shells are also likely to be exposed to laser air defense, with power from 100 kW.

              for cast iron 155mm projectiles you need a fairly powerful (or long) impact. Americans in reports indicated that they need a 200-300 kW laser.
              And it immediately pulls problems of size, power consumption, cooling, prices finally ... But the shells do not fly one by one!


              All so, for artillery 100 kW possible and not enough. And about one by one they don’t fly - a glut of air defense is quite possible in any situation.

              The unguided projectile is less dangerous, and some of the guided ones have already become more expensive than the CD. Recall the American guided missile 155 mm for Zamvolta.
  10. Operator April 8 2019 21: 17 New
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    Quote: AVM
    self-defocusing is self-focusing, i.e. the beam does not scatter

    After several self-focusing / defocusing, the laser beam loses its energy by orders of magnitude (spent on heating air molecules) —the natural limitation of the power of an atmospheric laser is based on this.
    1. Shopping Mall April 9 2019 08: 39 New
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      Quote: Operator
      Quote: AVM
      self-defocusing is self-focusing, i.e. the beam does not scatter

      After several self-focusing / defocusing, the laser beam loses its energy by orders of magnitude (spent on heating air molecules) —the natural limitation of the power of an atmospheric laser is based on this.


      Unfortunately, I do not have data on power loss by various lasers, depending on their output power, wavelength, air density, precipitation, etc.
  11. Vadim237 April 9 2019 00: 12 New
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    Tantalum carbide-based material - in my opinion the best material for protection against laser and high temperature, heavy, but still
  12. M. Michelson April 9 2019 06: 31 New
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    Nda ... The problem, the crossword puzzle, the rugby bus (© Raikin), wherever you look.
    Thanks for the review.
  13. rica1952 April 9 2019 13: 00 New
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    No need to reinvent the wheel. This problem has already been solved on the 1 steps ,, Topol-M ,,
    1. Shopping Mall April 9 2019 13: 37 New
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      Quote: rica1952
      No need to reinvent the wheel. This problem has already been solved on the 1 steps ,, Topol-M ,,


      How?
  14. aiden 19 June 2019 02: 01 New
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    In my opinion, such lasers have more disadvantages than advantages. For one that can shoot down missiles or aircraft, you will need to carry some kind of nuclear reactor with you. Plus, he will not be able to constantly emit a beam, since the source will overheat, it will still have to be dragged liquid nitrogen for cooling. The false target (or volley) at which the laser will fire will give time for a second strike both on the object of protection and on its reactor, which will cause even more problems. Moreover, in the atmosphere it will be distorted from various conditions - dust, rain, rarefaction of air, etc. And in space, the problem of cooling may be solved, but it remains with the energy source. Again, a nuclear reactor will have to be sent into orbit. In any case, it will be useless in space if the Spiral program is revived. The only thing many people suggest is to use on ships. Yes, and then doubts about how he will save from torpedoes, ship’s guns, and indeed, from volley fire.
  15. Struv rim 12 February 2020 20: 22 New
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    Kinetic interceptors do not work in the atmosphere.

    The Russian Federation is moving to hypersonic platforms that operate in the atmosphere.

    A mass rise into orbit of a missile defense of a different type will cause withdrawal from the START treaties and a massive rise into orbit of waiting cobalt nuclear warheads that detonate when you try to bring them down

    Nuclear weapons are ALWAYS stronger than armor, it is limited only by common sense, necessary and sufficient. The more protection, the more dangerous nuclear weapons will be.