Military Review

Hypersonic Zircon rocket. Reaction to Putin’s words: from CNN to Kiselyov

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On February 20, in the next message to the Federal Assembly, Russian President Vladimir Putin again spoke about promising domestic developments in the field of armaments. Along with other products, the promising anti-ship Zircon missile was mentioned. The head of state did not disclose all the data on this product, but the announced information was enough to launch numerous discussions and disputes. Your opinion about Russian weapons voiced by specialists, politicians and the media.


Reason for disputes

The existence of a new anti-ship missile with special characteristics called "Zircon" became known several years ago. Since then, officials and anonymous media sources have managed to reveal some of the details of the project, although the development as a whole has remained secret. 20 February in the framework of the presidential address to the Federal Assembly sounded new official data on the "Zircon".


Model of the BrahMos II rocket, in the past associated with "Zircon"


Vladimir Putin said that work on the new anti-ship missile project is currently ongoing, the expected success has been achieved, and the weapon will be ready in the planned time. The Zircon project provides for the creation of a rocket with a flight speed of about M = 9 and a range of more than 1000 km. Carriers of such a missile will be surface ships and submarines equipped with Caliber complexes. The use of standardized launchers will reduce the cost of introducing new weapons. The Zircon product will be able to attack both surface and coastal targets.

The president did not disclose any other information about Zircon. However, in the context of all promising weapons, he outlined goals and objectives. Thus, Russia reserves the right to develop and deploy new types of weapons for their protection. The targets of such weapons should be both the areas and objects from which the immediate threat emanates, as well as the “decision centers” on the use of dangerous weapons for us.

Reaction from overseas

For several days after the speech of V. Putin, US officials did not comment on the new information on advanced weapons. At the same time, it was Washington’s reaction that was of particular interest, since it was disagreements with it that force Moscow to create new weapons to destroy “decision-making centers” and other dangerous objects.

The first comment about "Zircon" appeared only on February 24. CNN has interviewed US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo, and one of the questions was about new Russian weapons. The US foreign minister called the statements about new missiles and their deployment against existing targets “empty threats.” He also believes that talking about new developments is intended to cover a key call. Finally, the state secretary did not forget to mention Russian “violations of the Treaty on the Elimination of Medium and Shorter Missiles”.

US media reacted to news About "Zircon" in different ways and in accordance with its focus. The tabloids shouted about the new threat, while more serious publications tried to figure out the essence of the problem. The statements of M. Pompeo changed the tone of new publications. Now the new Russian anti-ship missile is most often viewed as a real challenge to American security, which, however, can be overestimated.

Missile strike "News of the week"

24 February, the theme of Zircon rockets was raised in the program "News of the Week" on the Russia 1 channel. The host of the program, Dmitry Kiselev, in his well-known manner spoke about the new rocket and the possible principles for its use against dangerous objects - those decision-making centers of a potential enemy. The information expressed, manner of presentation and reputation of the program did their job, and the plot attracted the attention of both domestic and foreign viewers.

The host of "Vesti Week" proposed to consider the following scenario for the use of weapons. Ships and submarines with Zircon missiles must be located 400 km from the western and eastern coasts of the United States - outside the exclusive sea zone. From such positions, the fleet must strike at key targets. Each submarine is said to have 40 Zircon missiles on board.

Hypersonic Zircon rocket. Reaction to Putin’s words: from CNN to Kiselyov


From the Atlantic submarines and ships will be able to fire at the Pentagon, the control center at Camp David, as well as objects in Fort Ritchie. From the Pacific, it is proposed to attack the control point of the nuclear forces of Jim Creek and the control of the strategic offensive forces of McClellan.

D. Kiselev calculated that the distances from the launch point to the designated targets do not exceed 800 km. With a flight speed of 11 thousand km / h, the flight time will not exceed 5 minutes. The potential of such a blow is obvious.

The foreign media outlets quickly responded to the plot of “News of the Week”. Some publications suggested preparing for the war and the catastrophic consequences of the missile strike in one way or another, while others supported the fresh statements of M. Pompeo and began to call for calm.

Of great interest is the reaction of the publication of the New York Post. It studied the list of targets “assigned” by the Russian television program and published the results of such a test. It turned out that the McClellan naval base and the training center at Fort Ritchie were closed a few years ago, and in Jim Creek there is not a command post, but a communications facility. Thus, only the Pentagon and the Camp David facilities remained real and relevant targets.

February 25 story, "Vesti of the Week" commented on the press secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov. He pointed out that the country's leadership does not interfere in the editorial policy of television channels, including state ones. Questions about the content of television stories, he recommended to address directly to the channels. D. Peskov also reminded that in his recent message, V. Putin spoke only about the deployment of weapons against potentially dangerous objects. Specific geographical locations were not called.

German concerns

The other day in the domestic press widely quoted a new article by the German edition of Stern. 1 March, it published material on the Zircon rocket. In his title “Putins Zirkon-Rakete - schneller und tödlicher als vom Westen erwartet” (“Putin’s Zircon” - faster and more deadly than they thought in the West ”) reflected certain concerns regarding the capabilities of the new Russian weapons.

Considering the available information about the Zircon rocket, Stern notes that the recently announced flight performance of this product is consistent with data previously published in the Russian media. At the same time, they exceed the estimates of foreign experts. Thus, the German author refers to estimates of speeds up to 6 thousand km / h and a range of up to 500 km.



From the new information about the speed and range Stern makes obvious conclusions. It is noted that the interception of a rocket with a speed of 11 thousand km / h with the help of non-nuclear means of air defense is impossible. High speed reduces available reaction time: in just 3 minutes, a rocket at maximum speed can travel 600 km. Only combat lasers and electronic defense systems can effectively fight such attack weapons.

However, in the article Stern noted the difficulty of creating hypersonic missiles. It is required not only to ensure a high flight speed, but also to create a sufficiently robust design that is resistant to temperature loads when flying inside a plasma cloud. Maneuvering at high speeds is another difficulty.

According to V. Putin, Zircon missiles will be installed on ships and submarines using existing launchers from the Caliber complex. At the same time, the author of Stern believes that after the expected termination of the INF Treaty, one can expect the appearance of a ground version of hypersonic weapons. In addition, referring to the Russian press, the German publication writes about the possible development of a version of Zircon for use in combat aviation. Such a rocket will complement the already known products "Dagger". The use of a carrier aircraft with a certain combat radius will increase the area of ​​responsibility of missiles.

Stern also recalled the assessments of Tim Ripley, columnist for Jane's Defense Weekly, made in 2016. He noted that the high speed of the new missile reduces the time for the enemy’s air defense response. This will allow Zircons to unexpectedly attack a helpless opponent and inflict heavy damage on him. T. Ripley suggested that within the framework of the Zircon project not only an anti-ship missile could be created, but also weapons for attacking land targets. According to him, the United States should also work on such weapons. If this is not done, then Western countries may lag behind Russia and China.

Reaction to the news

In general, the statements of Vladimir Putin about the continuation of work on a promising hypersonic rocket did not go unnoticed. The reaction to this news was different, including diametrically opposite. At the same time, it should be noted that officials and the mass media commented on new messages taking into account their position and political moments.

Meanwhile, ignoring the statements of foreign persons and publications in the foreign press, the Russian industry continues to work on the Zircon project. According to the latest official reports, the project is on schedule and will be completed as scheduled. However, the military department and the head of state have not yet specified them. According to the news of the past years, experienced Zircon missiles have long enough time to go to the test, and therefore we can assume that the adoption of such a product is not far off. And this means that in the near future we are waiting for a new shaft of articles, opinions, discussions and loud statements.

On the materials of the sites:
http://kremlin.ru/
https://edition.cnn.com/
https://ria.ru/
https://tass.ru/
https://stern.de/
https://inosmi.ru/
Author:
Photos used:
Militaryrussia.ru, VGTRK
198 comments
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  1. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 5 March 2019 05: 44
    -2
    In "Zircon" the main thing is that it IS! And it makes both MRK and diesel submarines lethally dangerous ... To strike ANY targets wassat
    1. ares1988
      ares1988 5 March 2019 07: 24
      +10
      Are you already there?)
    2. YOUR
      YOUR 5 March 2019 07: 27
      +14
      And why are MRCs and diesel submarines dangerous for the USA?
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 5 March 2019 07: 57
        -11
        Sail to the coast of Iceland. Cover the Atlantic. They can hit the bases. AUG will be driven outside the range of aviation. And if the bases in Cuba are lucky, this will fundamentally change the situation ...
        1. UMA-UMA
          UMA-UMA 5 March 2019 08: 31
          +11
          Comrade patriots, still learn not only speech and slogans, but also materiel!
          Alas, the submarines of the Russian Federation will neither be able to block anything, nor enter the strike positions of nuclear weapons, because the Russian Federation does not have a surface fleet. And without a surface fleet, submarines are extremely vulnerable and there can be no talk of any sure destruction of targets .. Sailors, if I'm wrong, then correct.
          The small number of surface ships that remain with difficulty is enough for the coastal zone, moreover, we cannot concentrate our surface forces in a certain area, this will inevitably lead to a rupture in another.
          It should also be noted that not a single destroyer and cruiser is being built in the Russian Federation, the country has lost the ability to build ships of this class - only frigates and boats.
          1. Fevralsk. Morev
            Fevralsk. Morev 5 March 2019 09: 03
            +4
            Comrade UMA-UMA. Do not drive into despondency Kremlin-bots-cheers-patriots with your sad thoughts .. They already believed in fairy-tale cartoons. We are fine. The country has a growing GDP, the president’s rating is higher than the roof, the income of Russians is like Rogozin’s space rockets. And you ?!
            1. UMA-UMA
              UMA-UMA 5 March 2019 10: 05
              -4
              Yes, I'm not on purpose. I’m just an unpleasant person, hirelings. And so you are absolutely right in everything.
            2. snerg7520
              snerg7520 9 March 2019 02: 12
              +2
              Mr. Morev, in about five years, share your impressions about the taste of the prison baland, right?
              1. Fevralsk. Morev
                Fevralsk. Morev 13 March 2019 05: 09
                -1
                Dear snerg7520. About the balance in five years. I pray to God that after five years the vandalous leeches that suck on riches that belong to the people according to the Law do not sip the prison jabber. And at the same time those who serve these leeches from the screens of zombies and on the Internet. To be on the topic, I’ll say: thank you to Putin for bread, for water, for freedom, for happy labor — the Russian CIRCons will erase all the bourgeois.
          2. Yorgven
            Yorgven 6 March 2019 10: 55
            +3
            Actually, with the advent of the Zircons, two types of ships remained in the seas and oceans: the first is submarines, and the second is targets.
            1. UMA-UMA
              UMA-UMA 6 March 2019 12: 18
              -7
              My young friend, the noisy submarines of the Russian Federation and without surface cover is an easy target for the NATO global fleet. The USSR had a great and terrible Mosquito - a NATO storm, but at the same time there was a powerful fleet with 300 submarine strategists, 450 first-class surface ships and 1500 Navy aircraft.
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 7 March 2019 15: 35
                +5
                Quote: UMA-UMA
                My young friend, the noisy submarines of the Russian Federation and without surface cover is an easy target for the NATO global fleet.

                Well, you tell the Norwegians. from which they, fools, are all looking for but cannot find. probably do not know that the submarines are noisy wassat
                1. UMA-UMA
                  UMA-UMA 7 March 2019 15: 58
                  -8
                  Searched in 77. There was such a case.
                  1. Sanichsan
                    Sanichsan 7 March 2019 16: 16
                    +4
                    actually in 2016 wink if not mistaken .. plus minus a year. there was a brawl! laughing I don’t understand how you missed it? request
                    Well then, even by the end of the boat, sunken from World War I was found.
                    1. UMA-UMA
                      UMA-UMA 7 March 2019 17: 05
                      -9
                      The Russian media will not tell you such tales, yeah.
                      1. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 11 March 2019 13: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: UMA-UMA
                        The Russian media will not tell you such tales, yeah.

                        in general, these were links to the Norwegian media and even some protest notes from Norway. do you selectively perceive information? the fact that your template does not fit you just ignore Well, so that the template does not break? laughing
              2. snerg7520
                snerg7520 9 March 2019 02: 09
                +5
                Uma-Yuma, who are you hanging noodles on the ears about the noise of our boats, grantie?
                The insolence of the liberals is astounding - they will lie, working out some money and even piss into their eyes - all of them are one dew of God.
                By the way, it falls under the new fake law or not, who knows?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                2. UMA-UMA
                  UMA-UMA 9 March 2019 12: 41
                  -7
                  I’m wondering why my post was deleted? Here is the post of this ham boorish not removed. The site itself is the same Kremlebotsky.
                  1. Hire
                    Hire 10 March 2019 11: 50
                    +3
                    Quote: UMA-UMA
                    The site itself is the same Kremlebotsky.

                    And you, dear, thought it was a hotbed of your pederastic liberalism? laughing laughing laughing
                    The site administration apparently needs to think: why would it suddenly alternatively gifted shkolota consider this site Russophobic and liberal?
          3. And Vasya.
            And Vasya. 10 March 2019 14: 41
            +5
            UMA-UMA. No need to "clang" your teeth from your powerlessness and ignorance!
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 5 March 2019 08: 45
          +3
          That's cool. Small missile boats will sail to Iceland along with diesel submarines.
          What the hell situation ????????
          Read. Rusal (Russian aluminum) at the request of the US Ministry of Finance replaced the chairman of the board of directors. There was a German, became a Frenchman. Interesting for a mighty Russian company. Further, at the request of the US Ministry of Finance, the share of Deripaska in Rusal should be reduced to 48 or 49 percent, it does not matter. The remaining shares he must transfer to the bank, which indicates the AMERICAN MINISTRY of FINANCE. This became the basis for lifting sanctions against RusAl. The sanctions on RusAl were lifted, which means that the requirements of the United States have been met.
          So what situation did you decide to change? Or still think that if something we like uuuuh. Yes, it will not be if that. The army is almost gone. For example, read how many modern Russian aircraft in the Russian Army and how many in the Chinese army. And so for all types of weapons.
          1. Simferopol
            Simferopol 5 March 2019 09: 09
            -4
            YOUR you are incompetent
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Greenwood
            Greenwood 5 March 2019 10: 43
            +6
            Quote: YOUR
            The army is almost gone. For example, read how many modern Russian aircraft in the Russian Army and how many in the Chinese army.
            There is an army. And, one way or another, is rearming. Another question is that the USSR also had a powerful army, but this did not save him from collapse.
            1. The comment was deleted.
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 5 March 2019 11: 02
            +5
            This does not change anything with the aluminum manufacturing industry, sales markets in Russia - a controlling stake in Russia, again.
          4. venik
            venik 5 March 2019 11: 22
            +1
            Quote: YOUR
            Read. Rusal (Russian aluminum) at the request of the US Ministry of Finance replaced the chairman of the board of directors.

            -----
            WHY is there "Rusal" ??? Where is Rym, and where is Crimea ??

            Quote: YOUR
            Almost no army left

            ----
            Yah??? Do you believe in this nonsense ??? Or just trying to act as provocateur?

            Quote: YOUR
            For example, read how many modern Russian aircraft in the Russian Army and how many in the Chinese army.

            ------
            Counted !!! 4th generation aircraft (and above):
            - RF - 930 (including Tu-160, Tu-22M, MiG-31 and Su-24M)
            - PRC - 850 (including Xian JH-7 - the same age and analogue of the Su-24M)
            1. spektr9
              spektr9 5 March 2019 12: 12
              +3
              Counted !!! 4th generation aircraft (and above):
              - RF - 930 (including Tu-160, Tu-22M, MiG-31 and Su-24M)
              - China - 850 (including the Xian JH-7 - the same age and analogue of the Su-24M)

              Cool, you are the first who divided strategic aviation into generations ... Before you somehow only fighter aircraft, but front-line bombers for generations laid out laughing
            2. YOUR
              YOUR 5 March 2019 12: 37
              -3
              Compare with the USA.
              And so, just in case, in China, 28 serial 5th generation aircraft are very actively operated (Chengdu J-20), we have none.
              In China, another 5th generation Shenyang J-31 aircraft was developed and tested.
              1. venik
                venik 5 March 2019 15: 10
                +3
                Quote: YOUR
                And so, just in case, in China, 28 serial 5th generation aircraft are very actively operated (Chengdu J-20), we have none.

                ====
                28 is already a "SERIES" ??? And how many Su-57 are in the RF Aerospace Forces ?? eleven? fifteen???
                Well, if 28 aircraft - is it already a SERIES? Well, with the same success, the Su-57 is the same SERIES !!!
                Second: Chengdu J-20 - can he fly in "non-boost mode" and even on "supersonic" ??? Here is "news", so "news" !!!
                I personally only know 4 (four !!!) aircraft with supersonic cruising speed .... And how much do you know??
                AND HOW "5 generation"????
              2. venik
                venik 5 March 2019 15: 13
                +5
                Quote: YOUR
                Compare with the USA.

                =======
                Well, you, "dear" with China compared! Here I am with China and compared !!!!
                And you, young man, do not "get out" !! For a MAN, this is NOT WORTHY !!! am
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 6 March 2019 11: 24
                  -6
                  I did not compare with China, but wrote how many new planes we have and how many new OUR planes in China. Horseradish comparison. Moreover, if we compare the airfields of China along our borders and our airfields. The picture is generally sad.
                  1. ALLxANDr
                    ALLxANDr 10 March 2019 15: 57
                    +1
                    Second: Chengdu J-20 - can he fly in "non-boost mode" and even on "supersonic" ??? Here is "news", so "news" !!!
                    I personally know only 4 (four !!!) aircraft with supersonic cruising speed .... And HOW MUCH do you know ????
                    And HOW is the "5th generation" ????

                    I'll get in YOURpolemics)) laughing hi
                    I did not compare with China, but wrote how many new planes we have and how many new OUR planes in China. Horseradish comparison. Moreover, if we compare the airfields of China along our borders and our airfields. The picture is generally sad.

                    Even as compared, dear, how else. Only in the mathematical part are you somehow not really.

                    First - You need to know the Chinese classification! And they have everything inverted. For example, the 4th Chinese generation is the 3rd European generation.

                    Secondly, the engines in China are really not very. They learned to copy, but here is a catch, a copy is always worse than the original, and a Chinese copy of Russian engines is generally an unimportant oil painting. You can copy the turbine blades, but the manufacturing technology is not. Like other engine components. It is either invented or built by the owners of this same technology. Engines are being actively sold to China, but I haven’t read this engine building technology yet.

                    Thirdly, no one has sold 5th generation engines to China yet, so far they have nothing to copy.

                    Well, the last, fourth - that our experts are not in a hurry with the serial production of 5th generation aircraft does not speak of backwardness, but first of all, foresight. The USA hurried and stepped on a rake. The aircraft software is still very crooked, the components of the aircraft were not finalized and now they need to be replaced with modified ones - this is a lot of money that even Americans can afford. Why do we need such hemorrhoids? Are they attacking us? Is war already going on? That kind of no. Be afraid! Still admire our little birds in the sky)))))
                    1. YOUR
                      YOUR 11 March 2019 02: 34
                      -3
                      It’s nice to talk with aircraft engineers and a programmer.
                      Knows everything
                      1. ALLxANDr
                        ALLxANDr 11 March 2019 10: 04
                        +1
                        Prepared)) Nice to talk with such a person)
                        Of course, I don’t know everything, but if, in essence, I was trained in these two areas. There are diplomas. So, I’m talking about some things from a professional point of view.
                      2. YOUR
                        YOUR 11 March 2019 12: 49
                        -4
                        But what knowledge of the Chinese market and the state of the Chinese economy. Kneel down
                      3. ALLxANDr
                        ALLxANDr 11 March 2019 14: 55
                        +1
                        Where did you see the Chinese economy and the Chinese market in my words? It was purely about technical things. laughing wink
                        A smart way for you to wind up a post counter lol
                        As they wrote to you above:
                        Quote: venik
                        Quote: YOUR
                        Compare with the USA.

                        =======
                        Well, you, "dear" with China compared! Here I am with China and compared !!!!
                        And you, young man, do not "get out" !! For a MAN, this is NOT WORTHY !!! am

                      4. YOUR
                        YOUR 12 March 2019 02: 44
                        -1
                        Quote: ALLxANDr
                        The engines in China are really not very. Copy they learned

                        What is this about? How not about the Chinese economy
                        Quote: ALLxANDr
                        Nobody has sold 5th generation engines to China yet, so far they have nothing to copy.

                        This is about the Chinese economy.
                      5. ALLxANDr
                        ALLxANDr 12 March 2019 13: 45
                        0
                        Warm with a soft confuse? Economic development with scientific and technological development? wink good

                        I’ll explain it on my fingers, since it came to that .. On the example of South and North Korea. North Korea was able to make an atomic bomb, while its economy is in poor condition. Conversely, South Korea's economy is blooming and smelling, but even if they want to, they will not be able to master the atom even in the next 20 years. And there are many such examples.
                        Russia and the USA. Subject: rocket engines. The US economy is not like ours (we will not delve into the jungle, just compare the annual budgets of countries), BUT! The United States somehow lost its potential in rocket science and now they have problems with it. There are certainly successes .. but this is not the level that should be according to YOUR logic. Since they have an economy, they should have some of the best engines. I repeat, according to YOUR logic)

                        What's in practice? In practice, they buy engines from a country whose economy is torn to shreds.

                        Catch a thought, opponent? wink
                      6. YOUR
                        YOUR 12 March 2019 13: 54
                        -1
                        Horses mixed up in a bunch of horses.
                        Both North Korea and the United States seemed to be talking about China. In principle, this is a common thing. Not knowledge is offset by the amount written.
                      7. ALLxANDr
                        ALLxANDr 12 March 2019 13: 57
                        0
                        We actually talked about engines, and you climbed into the economy laughing Look who's Talking! laughing laughing laughing Do you understand yourself? Every third already catches you for the language
                      8. YOUR
                        YOUR 12 March 2019 13: 58
                        0
                        What are the top ten of every third.
                      9. ALLxANDr
                        ALLxANDr 12 March 2019 13: 59
                        0
                        I can count how much you have posted only in this thread of useless comments? And you cling to everyone and everyone. This I write about YOUR words about "Not knowing is compensated by the amount of writing"
                      10. YOUR
                        YOUR 12 March 2019 14: 12
                        0
                        No problem. For example and with explanations
                      11. ALLxANDr
                        ALLxANDr 12 March 2019 14: 22
                        0
                        Should I explain your comments ??? belay belay belay
                        What are you smoking there? lol laughing request
                      12. YOUR
                        YOUR 12 March 2019 14: 28
                        0
                        But you blame me, I asked for clarification. Just.
                        Although apparently I am talking with a child, judging by the number of emoticons.
                      13. ALLxANDr
                        ALLxANDr 12 March 2019 14: 36
                        0
                        Yes, you are also an expert in psychology?!? Surprised laughing
                        Your words were, I quote: "Not knowing is compensated by the amount of writing"?
                        Yours. Count how much you have posted here)) Are you an expert on this topic? No? And they littered the whole branch with their opinions on the most I can not. What else do you need to clarify? Allow experts to express their professional opinion and others to familiarize themselves with this view. Do not flood !!!
                      14. YOUR
                        YOUR 12 March 2019 14: 38
                        0
                        Clearly, there will be nothing on my questions. Bye.
              3. 2329 Carpenter
                2329 Carpenter 5 March 2019 17: 31
                0
                Terrible 5th generation Chinese fighters, no one has ever seen in action anywhere. No one knows what they can and what not. And as far as they really are of the 5th generation, only Chinese pilots know so far.
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 6 March 2019 11: 22
                  -4
                  In the case, only US 5th generation aircraft were seen. That's all.
              4. And Vasya.
                And Vasya. 10 March 2019 15: 22
                +5
                Your. Powerlessness is eating you!
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 11 March 2019 02: 37
                  -3
                  That's for sure. So I want to see Russia very much, not only in cartoons and promises, but ....
            3. mvg
              mvg 5 March 2019 18: 15
              +1
              RF - 930

              You are not the first to consider it ... the truth is, only you have done so much ... There was an article here, at VO not so long ago. And yes, how many Tu-160M ​​and Tu-22M3M we have ... it seems to be on one side .. as well as the same age as the Chinese-made Tu-16 and older.
              PS: With what fright did the JH-7 become an analogue of the Su-24?
              1. venik
                venik 5 March 2019 20: 00
                +2
                Quote: mvg
                PS: With what fright did the JH-7 become an analogue of the Su-24?

                =========
                Yes, for the intended purpose and TTX !!!
      2. Chertt
        Chertt 5 March 2019 07: 58
        +6
        Quote: YOUR
        And why are MRCs and diesel submarines dangerous for the USA?

        The fact that no one knows what ammunition is in a standard missile container, this unit of the Russian Navy.
        1. YOUR
          YOUR 5 March 2019 08: 53
          -4
          On RTOs, a maximum of 8 missiles, on a submarine type Varshavyanka maximum of 4. Take instead of torpedoes.
          But the question is different, how can these boats threaten the USA?
          1. Chertt
            Chertt 5 March 2019 09: 04
            0
            Quote: YOUR
            how can these boats threaten the USA?

            Russia is not going to "threaten" the United States. We simply remind you that for every aggressive action against Russia or our allies, Russia has the possibility of a tough response.
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 5 March 2019 09: 30
              -3
              How will Russia give a tough answer with the help of these boats?
              1. spektr9
                spektr9 5 March 2019 12: 24
                +5
                How will Russia give a tough answer with the help of these boats?

                Just as they gave a tough answer to the shelling of Syria, the United States on April 14, 18
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 5 March 2019 12: 41
                  +5
                  Those. no way.
                  1. spektr9
                    spektr9 5 March 2019 12: 47
                    +4
                    Those. no way.

                    Well, why, the concern was)
                    1. YOUR
                      YOUR 5 March 2019 12: 54
                      -2
                      Whose Concern?

                      If you are about Americans, then they have completed their task. Those objects that were designated for destruction were wiped off the face of the Earth.
                      1. spektr9
                        spektr9 5 March 2019 13: 17
                        +2
                        Whose Concern?

                        Foreign Ministry ....
              2. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 5 March 2019 12: 44
                +1
                these boats?

                I read the book for Ushakov, his first victory over the Turks. Voinovich was in command then. After the battle, Voinovich wrote to Ushakov: "Our FLOTIC resisted ...". Ushakov shuddered at this word. And he called Voinovich. After the SHIPs, you must also be named.
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 5 March 2019 12: 56
                  -2
                  And Svyatoslav on some kayaks went to Constantinople. Can I recall something historical
                2. mvg
                  mvg 5 March 2019 18: 22
                  0
                  After the battle, Voinovich wrote to Ushakov: "Our FLEET resisted ..."

                  Drop dead. And what else do you know about Marko Ivanovich? In addition to books, Admiral Ushakov and Generalisimus Suvorov?
                  Nothing that this count, a noble family, began to serve as midshipman and went all the way from midshipman to admiral .. And that under the command of Ushakov in that battle there were only 5 ships out of 37 .. and he could not change the course of the battle ..
                  PS: This is fiction, do not confuse it with documentary. The country needs heroes, they are promoted. It has always been that way.
                  1. Okolotochny
                    Okolotochny 7 March 2019 12: 34
                    +1
                    You cool, take a deep breath and exhale. Where did I analyze the actions of Ushakov and Voinovich? Where did I claim that this is TRUTH ??? I answered YOUR word for SHIP !!! Do you catch the thought ???
              3. 2329 Carpenter
                2329 Carpenter 5 March 2019 17: 36
                -1
                There is an AUG. Zircon arrives with BCH. Explodes over aug.
                What will happen to AUG, YOUR?
                1. mvg
                  mvg 5 March 2019 20: 12
                  -2
                  Zircon arrives with a bullseye

                  Where does this manna from heaven come from? Out of nowhere materialized? You have a video of tests, there is a TTX, data about TS from where it takes. Or everything is simple, everything flies!
                  PS: There is an AUG 12-15 ships. Plus 2 AWACS are always in the air. Plus satellites. The submarines are locked in the bases. There are no more airfields with strategists. There are only 5 of them. So where does this miracle of miracles come from?
                  1. 2329 Carpenter
                    2329 Carpenter 5 March 2019 21: 14
                    0
                    Of course, I don’t have all of the above. Like no one who does not have access to classified information.
                    I just think that AUG is not so invulnerable.
                    And if Zircon does not suit you, there is some other medium.
      3. Romario_Argo
        Romario_Argo 5 March 2019 10: 19
        +1
        And why are MRCs and diesel submarines dangerous for the USA?

        that on all destroyers and cruisers of the U.S. Navy it is necessary to raise survey radars to a height of 50-60 meters in order to expand the radio horizon to 120 km. This means that in 3's, the ballistic storm RCC Zircon (V = 3,5 km / second) will be detected in 90 km. Aigis hardware processing = 8 seconds (on the radar Don-2Н - 2,5 seconds)
        + dead zone is equal to 10 km around any ship
        Therefore, the margin of time = 22,8 seconds, which is enough to launch 11 missiles, at the rate of 3 on 1 Zircon. The maximum can hit 4 Zircon from 8 - this is the BK of the same MRK Karakurt
        BUT (!) The situation is much worse because Now the radio horizon at Berkov and Tikonderoger = 60 km., and to detect RCC Zircon during the 3 ball storm is possible only for 40 km. - 10 km. dead zone at the ship.
        * Today's reality for the US Navy, 8,6 seconds. - 8 seconds for hardware processing. The remainder 0,6 seconds. which is not even enough to launch 1 missiles and incline it towards the target (!)
        1. 5 – 9
          5 – 9 5 March 2019 12: 10
          +5
          Aegis seems to have intercepted 1 (one) subsonic target and 1 (one) supersonic during exercises, moreover, whether it was directional or not at the same time, and directions were not indicated. In another case, I splashed a subsonic target and caught it onboard. Americans modestly kept silent about the results of the exercises with MA-31. Those. even a couple of supersonic targets at the same time - under the baaaaalshim question.
          The hypothesis of hypersound is that missiles fly slower :): it doesn’t seem to intercept him at all.
          Therefore, let them discover at least a thousand miles :)
          1. mvg
            mvg 5 March 2019 20: 14
            -2
            The hypothesis of hypersound is that missiles fly slower :): it doesn’t seem to intercept him at all.

            She does not run away, but flies towards. Does not maneuver. Otherwise, the satellite hit by SM-3 also flew 27km / s, how can it be hit? And there’s electronic warfare. A ship with a working EW has never caught RCC in history.
            1. Romario_Argo
              Romario_Argo 5 March 2019 20: 32
              -1
              A ship with a working EW has never caught RCC in history.

              and if the anti-ship missile cuts its REP (counteraction) and switches from ARGSN to an inertial guidance system - which does not require external landmarks or signals coming from outside its own radar (???)
              1. mvg
                mvg 5 March 2019 21: 23
                -1
                inertial guidance system

                Do not fantasize. What, nafik, inertial system on a moving target? She doesn’t always fall on a motionless one. Moreover, the corrected flight in hypersound is still a sweetie. Maneuvering even in a few g, it is a very durable case. The appearance of Brahmos II pulls on this.
                PS ,: If a conventional warhead, then you need an accurate hit. So far, these are just the words of GDP. And cartoons.
            2. 5 – 9
              5 – 9 6 March 2019 07: 55
              0
              Who does not maneuver, Granite ?????
              You are desperately confusing the aerodynamic targets for which the SM-2, 6 (this is air defense) are hitting and the ballistic ones for which the SM-3 is hitting in the airless space (this is American-style missile defense). On a satellite from a well-known orbit up to tens of cm, you can also pull tennis balls.

              EW is EW. Its effectiveness is unknown. If it is and do not need air defense?
              1. mvg
                mvg 6 March 2019 12: 27
                -2
                Moreover, the corrected flight in hypersound is still a sweetie. Maneuvering even in a few g, this is a very durable case

                Are you sure you read what they write? I wrote about hyper-duper Zircon.
                frantically confusing aerodynamic targets

                Yes, I kind of know the difference between SM-2, SM-3 and SM-6. Thanks for the tip.
                PS.: Yes, I studied Granite on duty, thoroughly ... Just like Mosquito and Termite. These are not the missiles that they are now afraid of. Even a full salvo of 24 anti-ship missiles, pr 949A (if there is a source of missile defense for 500 km) is unlikely to damage the AUG. Too long flight on a high flight section of a whole flock of 7 tons of missiles.
                1. 5 – 9
                  5 – 9 6 March 2019 12: 44
                  0
                  This is understandable, but it is still not a satellite in an airless space. Otherwise, it is not clear why everyone is so afraid of this hypersound and striving for it ... certainly not because of the reaction time of the air defense system.

                  It seems that at AUG 2 loaves were planned. What and how to shoot down hundreds of kilometers of granite on a high stretch? SM-2, 6? Here it is already necessary to look at what their effective range is real (and not Murzil’s) and what is the profile of Granite. I would not particularly take into account the duty couple F-18 with AIM-120. The United States did not seem to have drilled exercises on targets at supersonic sound over 100-200 km.
                  Does Granite have 300 kilometers at low altitude?
                  I really would have hoped more for EW. Although without special warheads and the Soviet Union with the AUG was not going to butt, and the Russian Federation - even more so.
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 5 March 2019 12: 44
          -1
          So what? The question is something else. Like boats, i.e. can coastal ships threaten a ship in the ocean?
        3. mvg
          mvg 5 March 2019 18: 26
          +3
          BUT (!) The situation is much worse

          No one has ever left Romario Agro © wink
          Again alternate reality? RTO Buyan and Zeleny Dol a thunderstorm of all seas. Orly Burke on the needles. Vote who is for!
        4. Operator
          Operator 5 March 2019 19: 18
          -2
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          all destroyers and cruisers of the U.S. Navy need to raise survey radars to a height of 50-60 meters to expand the radio horizon to 120 km

          The flight level of the Zircon is 40 km, so the radio horizon of its visibility exceeds 800 km.

          The enemy's problem lies elsewhere - the army, navy, aviation and the newly created space forces of the United States do not have the means to intercept aircraft moving at this echelon from the word at all. All air defense / missile defense systems of NATO countries (as well as Asian satellites of the United States) are designed to intercept targets or below (<30 km) or above (> 100 km) the specified height.

          Plus, of course, the Zircon's flight speed (9M or 2,7 km / s), which makes it even more difficult to create intercept equipment.

          And in nuclear equipment, Zircon removes from the agenda the issue of its interception altogether - a high-altitude explosion of the leading missile is guaranteed to disable (using EMP) all enemy radars, after which the slave Zircon will pass through the air defense / missile defense zone like a butter knife.

          At the moment, only the method of target designation or homing of the Zircon to a moving target flying in a plasma cloud has not been publicly disclosed (flight to stationary targets is carried out using an inertial navigation system).
          1. Romario_Argo
            Romario_Argo 5 March 2019 20: 40
            -1
            The flight level of the Zircon is 40 km, so the radio horizon of its visibility exceeds 800 km.

            So what? on RCC Zircon algorithms are on Granite and Onyx, as soon as RCC detects opposition in the form of missiles, the general pack leaves for the horizon, except for the command missile, no matter how you roll the missiles go to 10 meters for 300 km. to the goal.
            radius of the AWACS radar patrol at AUG 150 km. BUT (!) They, again, are not associated with Ijes on Burki and Ticonderoga.
            Like it or not, the US Navy requires the modernization of all its em and cr - 90 units (!)
            1. Operator
              Operator 5 March 2019 21: 09
              -2
              Speed ​​9M and range +800 km can be realized only at an altitude of 40 km. Therefore, the hypersonic "Zircon" (in contrast to the supersonic "Onyx") begins to descend to the target 40 km away from it. And, of course, no flocks of "Zircons" - an exclusively pair application (the first missile jam the radars, the second hits the target).

              The main targets of the Zircons are stationary with known coordinates, such as land-based control centers located at a distance of up to 400 km from the coastline (for example, the White House, the Pentagon, or Camp David). The Antey nuclear submarine in the amount of five units with 72 launchers on each (a total of 260 missiles) can become the sea carriers of the Zirkons.

              To use the Zircons against aircraft carriers, it is necessary to have on board a highly sensitive gravitometer (for example, a quantum one) for homing and / or to ensure the reception of external target designation from a satellite in the X-ray range (the radiation of which freely passes through the plasma)
              1. Operator
                Operator 5 March 2019 21: 42
                -3
                Clarification - 360 "Zircons" on five "Antaeus".
            2. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 5 March 2019 22: 18
              +1
              Quote: Romario_Argo
              The flight level of the Zircon is 40 km, so the radio horizon of its visibility exceeds 800 km.

              So what? on RCC Zircon algorithms are on Granite and Onyx, as soon as RCC detects opposition in the form of missiles, the general pack leaves for the horizon, except for the command missile, no matter how you roll the missiles go to 10 meters for 300 km. to the goal.
              radius of the AWACS radar patrol at AUG 150 km. BUT (!) They, again, are not associated with Ijes on Burki and Ticonderoga.
              Like it or not, the US Navy requires the modernization of all its em and cr - 90 units (!)


              Oh how many absurdities then again ...
              One retired 80-year-old engineer wrote about the "flock" and everyone "picked up" it ...
              Although there was never a flock.
              The flock has just begun to appear after the "leap" in technologies of data exchange algorithms and spatial position. And the leaders, alas. but not us. And the Jews and Americans.
              Second.
              Not a single rocket will fly 300 km at an altitude of 10 meters - it simply does not have enough fuel. And if we talk about hypersound. all the more so - read physics.
              The radius of the radar_patrol is 350-400 miles + 300 miles the radar coverage area. Altogether, 700 miles, which is almost 1000 km, will be the normal detection figure for the CC. And they are all associated with the Ajis. All!
              And E-2 and E-3.
            3. Beringovsky
              Beringovsky 5 March 2019 23: 07
              +1
              Romario_Argo
              on RCC Zircon algorithms are on both Granites and Onyxes

              You fantasize on the go! How do you know how the Zircon works, even if there are no real pictures of it anywhere? Are you a developer working in secret on VO?
              Romario_Argo
              as soon as the anti-ship missiles detect opposition in the form of missiles, the general flock goes beyond the radio horizon, except for the command missile, no matter how the anti-ship missiles go 10 meters per 300 km. to the goal.

              Even a flight at an altitude of 80 km, in a highly rarefied atmosphere, where the air density is seven thousand times less than that of the earth, heats the missile defense up to 3000 ° C, which requires special materials and incredible strength. At a height of "10 meters" it will simply collapse and burn in a matter of seconds.
        5. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 5 March 2019 22: 11
          +1
          Quote: Romario_Argo

          * Today's reality for the US Navy, 8,6 seconds. - 8 seconds for hardware processing. The remainder 0,6 seconds. which is not even enough to launch 1 missiles and incline it towards the target (!)


          Well yes. if, in the opinion of the record alternativeist and science fiction writer Romario_Argo - Hardware processing is 8 seconds for 1 target, then attention to the questions:
          1. Where did you get the figure of 8,6 seconds? Just reduced those trembling "10-15 seconds. Until the watchman spills coffee on his pants when he sees the marks and presses the" automatic mode "button ???
          For there is no data anywhere about the time of the Ajis reaction. but about the officer on duty and 10 seconds in bulk ...

          2. How does Aegis manage to keep (and aim at targets) in the air up to 18 missiles, while giving target designation to 3 of them? is he "stupid" or is he not?

          2. Does What escort Aegis knew in the 80s had a special radar operating mode?
          Quote:
          To increase the frequency of updating data on low-flying CCs, and especially when they suddenly appear, for each headlamp there is an accelerated search for targets in the lower hemisphere (elevation angle from 0 to 4-5 °) with a specially allocated length of this search beam. Detection range in wake mode does not exceed 80-82 km
          .
          That is, in the AUG escort at 2-3 Ajis - 1 survey, and 1-2 always conduct a low-altitude search.
      4. venik
        venik 5 March 2019 10: 55
        +1
        Quote: YOUR
        And why are MRCs and diesel submarines dangerous for the USA?

        ===
        And what do you think: hypersonic anti-ship missiles (located on diesel-electric submarines and RTOs) can be dangerous for of american ships and aug ??? Amazingly strange question !!!
        1. Romario_Argo
          Romario_Argo 5 March 2019 11: 35
          +1
          hypersonic anti-ship missiles are deadly for the US Navy, a complete modernization of all 68 Berks and 22 Ticonderoges is required. FEW (????)
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 5 March 2019 12: 59
          -4
          The declared firing range of Zircon at a maximum of 500 km. AUG is not closer than 1000 km to the coast until it is smashed to pieces. Once again, how can RTOs and DPLs threaten ocean ships?
          The answer is no way.
          1. venik
            venik 5 March 2019 15: 40
            +2
            Quote: YOUR
            The declared firing range of Zircon at a maximum of 500 km.

            ====
            The original source is "in the studio" !!!
            We are waiting, sir !!!
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 6 March 2019 11: 11
              -5
              Are you banned in Google?
          2. Romario_Argo
            Romario_Argo 5 March 2019 20: 50
            +1
            Once again, how can RTOs and DPLs threaten ocean ships?
            The answer is no way.

            Better substantively and in a complex for a specific locality (!)
            range RCC Zircon 1000 km. Example: Kuril ridge of islands. DEPL Ave. 636.6 rises in the strait between the islands in a threatened direction. 500 there - 500 here BK - 4 CRP
            the whole ridge is shot through, and also 2 RTOs, etc. 22800 on the catch on the shallows behind the rocks somewhere, BC - 16 RCC. On Iturup and on Matua for the Bastion BPRK division - 8 RCC, with Balls - 32 RCC.
            already accumulated: 20 hypersonic, 8 supersonic, 32 subsonic anti-ship missiles
            If you use RCC at distances up to 300 km. out of an ambush - then no Burke will have any chances.
            because There are also ZG radars with a range of 600 km.
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 6 March 2019 11: 19
              -5
              Thank. But your story doesn’t draw on a quality alternative story.
              Is it difficult for you to find in the network how much we have on the Far East and what is available?
              On Iturup, on Matua, all the more, there are no anti-ship missiles and are not expected. Zircon is in development, there is at most an experimental sample. The infa that is on the network is that our "good friends" from abroad drain the range of 500 km. All coastal anti-ship missile complexes have a maximum range of 350 km.
              Such "experts" amaze me. That Google banned nothing to look at it is not possible?
              And the question is not in the range of missiles, although it is present, in the cruising range of RTOs and the capabilities of diesel submarines.
            2. MONTEVIDEO01
              MONTEVIDEO01 6 March 2019 14: 46
              +2
              Quote: Romario_Argo
              Once again, how can RTOs and DPLs threaten ocean ships?
              The answer is no way.

              Better substantively and in a complex for a specific locality (!)
              range RCC Zircon 1000 km. Example: Kuril ridge of islands. DEPL Ave. 636.6 rises in the strait between the islands in a threatened direction. 500 there - 500 here BK - 4 CRP
              the whole ridge is shot through, and also 2 RTOs, etc. 22800 on the catch on the shallows behind the rocks somewhere, BC - 16 RCC. On Iturup and on Matua for the Bastion BPRK division - 8 RCC, with Balls - 32 RCC.
              already accumulated: 20 hypersonic, 8 supersonic, 32 subsonic anti-ship missiles
              If you use RCC at distances up to 300 km. out of an ambush - then no Burke will have any chances.
              because There are also ZG radars with a range of 600 km.

              GDP spoke of a range of over 1000 km.
        3. Grits
          Grits 5 March 2019 14: 29
          -3
          Guys, what is the dispute about? After all, it was said that large ships would be equipped with Zircons. The type of frigates and the updated "Nakhimov". There are also submarines of the Yasen class and the modernized Antei. Nobody talked about RTOs and diesels. It’s not casual. So why shake the air?
          1. venik
            venik 5 March 2019 15: 47
            +1
            Quote: Gritsa
            Guys, what is the dispute about? After all, it was said that large ships would be equipped with Zircons. The type of frigates and the updated "Nakhimov".

            ========
            You "misunderstood" something ??? It was directly said: "Compatible with" calibers "" !!! Well, what else is needed to "arrive" ???
      5. MONTEVIDEO01
        MONTEVIDEO01 6 March 2019 14: 45
        0
        The same Lada is very dangerous if it is equipped with Zircon. It is very inconspicuous, autonomy is 45 days, and nuclear warheads on Zircons are a sentence for the United States. The whole point of the Americans’s withdrawal from the INF Treaty is NOT DONE.
    3. UMA-UMA
      UMA-UMA 5 March 2019 08: 37
      -9
      Hmm ... Patriots, okay, Kiselev, to embellish his work is a master of literary words. But you are a support, the backbone of the country and so illiterate. ZIRCON ANTIABLE ROCKET, i.e. TO DESTROY THE CRABLE laughing What pentagon and what ANY GOALS are you going to destroy it?
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 5 March 2019 08: 53
        -7
        Let them dream.
      2. KCA
        KCA 5 March 2019 09: 01
        +11
        And who told you about what "Zircon" is? About its characteristics and tasks? Do you know everything about "Caliber" too? About options and anti-ship missiles, and submarines, and NL, and options with SBCH? That is called "Caliber", and the missiles are completely different, the name "Zircon" can also include 6-8-10 different types of missiles
        1. UMA-UMA
          UMA-UMA 5 March 2019 09: 58
          -6
          There is a type of missile. This type of missile is anti-ship. Kiselev invented everything else for you
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 5 March 2019 11: 06
            +8
            But you don’t know that anti-ship missiles - Granite, X 35, Onyx - shot at ground targets.
            1. UMA-UMA
              UMA-UMA 5 March 2019 14: 09
              +1
              Do not tell me where they shot, what objects and how the results? With Mi-8, you can also shoot at the ship with bunks, yeah
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 5 March 2019 16: 44
                -3
                And here it is start X 35
                1. UMA-UMA
                  UMA-UMA 5 March 2019 18: 23
                  +1
                  Vadim, if you had logical, not clip-based thinking, you would notice that this is a dumb video cut from different plots:
                  1. The board takes off from the airfield cf. Stripes.
                  2. Flies over the Astrakhan region. And lets in what kind of lionfish.
                  3. Then the video is SIMILAR to the data of the objective control, on which a freely falling bomb is shown in some small barn.

                  AND? What? Is this cool? Proof of effective use? This is another cut of cartoons. Patriots, you are incorrigible!
                  1. Beringovsky
                    Beringovsky 5 March 2019 23: 30
                    -2
                    Vadim 237 is simply illiterate, do not judge him severely. He is worse than illiterate - he has read the enth of your internet. Brains deformed by the power of tyrnet generate paradoxical ideas.
                    1. UMA-UMA
                      UMA-UMA 6 March 2019 00: 06
                      0
                      Thanks for the version. It looks like it is.
                    2. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 6 March 2019 00: 57
                      +1
                      You would speak for yourself - Mr. Super-literacy itself - Of course, I was pinned by the video.
            2. Grits
              Grits 5 March 2019 14: 33
              +3
              Quote: Vadim237
              But you don’t know that anti-ship missiles - Granite, X 35, Onyx - shot at ground targets.

              They shot. I think Zircon and clap on a ground target - no problem. There is another question. Since we are talking about Zircon as RCC, the most important question arises - how will we highlight enemy ships at a distance of 1000 km? The earth, after all, you know, is round.
              1. UMA-UMA
                UMA-UMA 5 March 2019 18: 25
                -3
                Yes, patriots will flashlight, yeah. Or a laser pointer! One will float ahead and no problem laughing
              2. mvg
                mvg 5 March 2019 18: 29
                +2
                The earth, after all, you know, is round.

                According to recent reports, it’s still flat ... Ask at least Zhirkov’s wife. And let the patriots dream. How so. One missile and RTOs - the entire American Mega-Fleet was reset.
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 5 March 2019 12: 53
          -4
          And what is there to know. Caliber RCC family. With a firing range of 35 km to 300. There is also a strategic missile Caliber firing range of 2500 km. This rocket can only shoot at stationary targets.
          It is known about Zircon that this missile is anti-ship with a firing range of 350 - 500 km. Guidance system combined initial stage inertial i.e. the rocket is fired towards the enemy, at the final stage homing. How exactly is this implemented jester knows him. Speed ​​too high to search for targets and maneuver. That means intelligence must be attached to this rocket. Very powerful and accurate.
          Moreover, the Pentagon is still difficult to say apparently for a red word.
      3. ioan-e
        ioan-e 5 March 2019 12: 49
        +3
        Quote: UMA-UMA
        ZIRCON ANTIABLE ROCKET, i.e. TO DESTROY THE CRABLE laughing What pentagon and what ANY GOALS are you going to destroy it?

        I'll tell you more - "Granite" is also an anti-ship missile, only it can shoot at ground targets, and it was created already in the last century! AND ABOUT HORROR S-400 air defense complex, but it can work on ground targets! And yes, everything is bad!
        1. mvg
          mvg 5 March 2019 18: 32
          +2
          "Granite" is also an anti-ship missile, only it can shoot at ground targets

          Have you heard somewhere, or someone said?

          // In connection with the end of the life of a particular product, we decided to check whether such a launch can be successfully completed. It is possible that the rocket was shot at a ground target due to the fact that the GOS of a particular rocket was faulty, and it was no longer possible to restore it. That is, a faulty rocket could be fired at the same time practicing firing at ground targets. //

          PS ,: This is about pr 949A Smolensk and the launch of P-700 on N. Earth
          1. ioan-e
            ioan-e 6 March 2019 12: 46
            0
            Quote: mvg
            "Granite" is also an anti-ship missile, only it can shoot at ground targets

            Have you heard somewhere, or someone said?


            https://news.rambler.ru/articles/37389093-podvodnyy-kreyser-nanes-granitnyy-udar/

            Vulnerable shore

            After a similar firing of a cruise missile of the Smolensk submarine in the Northern Fleet (in 2016), experts said that the Granit anti-ship missile system was not too suited for low-altitude flight over land (like the KR 3M14 system of the Caliber complex), and a sea missile could attack a ground target only from a high-altitude trajectory, being under the sight of enemy air defense. However, this is not the first time that the Navy has successfully projected the tactical capabilities of anti-ship missiles, including Granites, against coastal targets. Probably, all technological (coastal) weaknesses of anti-ship missiles have been overcome. This will greatly complicate the tasks of the air defense missile defense of a potential enemy. This is reported by Rambler.
            1. mvg
              mvg 6 March 2019 13: 04
              0
              It is reported by Rambler.

              I read rambler every day. Not that kind of news. Mostly mail. I can say that the professionalism of the correspondents there is below the plinth ... Much lower. This news search engine has long turned into pure "jaundice" at the level of Buzova.
              PS: Granite can hit the ground target at the level of the stadium in St. Petersburg at night, during the Champions League match, when the rest of Krestovsky Island will sleep. From a high trajectory, since the high-rise buildings of St. Petersburg will interfere with him .. That's the only way.
              PS: And how it will help in Europe and / or the trivia of BV. Let's leave the attack on ground targets with specially trained missiles from the optical and / or television GOS with the ability to map the terrain and the possibility of low-altitude flight with envelope relief. And Granites, Volcanoes and Basalts - let them be in the arsenal of 1164/1144 and 949A and then write off
      4. MONTEVIDEO01
        MONTEVIDEO01 6 March 2019 14: 56
        +1
        Quote: UMA-UMA
        Hmm ... Patriots, okay, Kiselev, to embellish his work is a master of literary words. But you are a support, the backbone of the country and so illiterate. ZIRCON ANTIABLE ROCKET, i.e. TO DESTROY THE CRABLE laughing What pentagon and what ANY GOALS are you going to destroy it?

        Dear GDP, Zircon works both on land and on ships. And its range is more than 1000 km. Look on the Internet. For your information, the same X-35U in Syria was used for ground targets.
        https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/1079634.html
        1. UMA-UMA
          UMA-UMA 6 March 2019 15: 23
          0
          The gdp declared a lot of things, for example, by the year 20 to create 25 million jobs. The country, as it was in the backward ones, is and will be until all your idols are in power. And yet, I am waiting for statistics on the use of an anti-ship missile in Syria: what was destroyed and how much.
    4. Den717
      Den717 5 March 2019 09: 11
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      In "Zircon" the main thing is that it IS!

      The main thing is at what rate the country can produce the declared weapons. A couple of exhibits will not solve strategic problems. In terms of "calibers", they once declared that the available capacity is about 200 units per year. There is no data on "zircon" and "dagger". Although some analysts in the United States predict the peak of Russia's military power in 2028. They probably have an idea of ​​our production capabilities.
      1. max702
        max702 5 March 2019 09: 59
        +4
        Quote: Den717
        The main thing is at what rate the country can produce the declared weapons. A couple of exhibits will not solve strategic problems. In terms of "calibers", they once declared that the available capacity is about 200 units per year. There is no data on "zircon" and "dagger". Although some analysts in the United States predict the peak of Russia's military power in 2028. They probably have an idea of ​​our production capabilities.

        Nobody knows for sure, for example, passing six months ago by the NPO Mashinostroyeniye plant in Greutov, I watched a picture of how a huge workshop with a wall height of thirty meters was very cheerfully broken, everyone thought the khan was freeing a kitten space for high-rise buildings ) BUT just recently, driving in the same places, I was shocked by a new building of approximately the same size! So steps are being taken in the right direction, and the military-industrial complex is clearly increasing its capacity.
      2. KCA
        KCA 5 March 2019 10: 02
        +3
        I don’t know anything about the "Dagger" and "Zircon", but the X series cruise missiles are shipped in 3 shifts
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 5 March 2019 11: 07
        0
        We do not openly report on the supply of missiles.
    5. smart ass
      smart ass 5 March 2019 11: 00
      0
      How is it in our opinion, to sit in a leaky Chinese training and scare the Americans))
    6. NEXUS
      NEXUS 5 March 2019 11: 16
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      In "Zircon" the main thing is that it IS!

      Not yet. It is tested and when it goes to the troops is not yet clear. Moreover, there are more questions than answers. For example, the range ... declared, more than 1000 km. But more than 1000 km, maybe 1500 km, and 2000 km, and maybe 1001 km. And in this context, this discrepancy in numbers is very significant. If we say Zircon is able to fly to 2000 km, then this will significantly complicate the life of the mattress aircraft carriers. At the same time, even with a range of 1000 km, which prevents this missile from being hung like a dagger under the belly of the aircraft, thereby increasing the range of this anti-ship missile system, which, by the way, is capable of working not only for naval targets, but also for ground ones.
      And as regards target designation ... here, some individuals are all indignant that in order for Zircon to fly to such a range of naval targets, he needs a real-time control unit. So, if the GDP designated this missile as anti-ship with such a range, then apparently there are missile complexes for this missile. Moreover, Liana is not the only one capable of delivering MCs for naval targets, and the constellation of such satellites will increase significantly quantitatively over the course of 2-3 years, as the GDP said the same.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 5 March 2019 13: 16
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        Moreover, Liana is not the only one capable of delivering MCs for naval targets, and the constellation of such satellites will increase significantly in quantitative terms within 2-3 years, as GDP said the same.

        You generally know that no one has yet succeeded in transmitting real-time targeting to the same missile, although many are trying.
      2. Grits
        Grits 5 March 2019 14: 38
        0
        Quote: NEXUS
        Moreover, Liana is not the only one capable of delivering MCs for naval targets, and the constellation of such satellites will increase significantly in quantitative terms within 2-3 years, as GDP said the same.

        I was always interested in whether Pindo standers can take our creepers from orbit. Do they have such opportunities? If there is, then during the threatened period they will be the first to leave orbit.
  2. 3vs
    3vs 5 March 2019 07: 16
    -7
    And let them go to the diapers!
    The self-preservation instinct among the tolerant is developed like no one else!
    1. ares1988
      ares1988 5 March 2019 07: 27
      +7
      The desire to use a diaper is somewhat similar to the trampoline proposal. How it ended - everyone knows. Regarding self-preservation: Are you really sure that 80 missiles can do so much that the United States must be afraid of them?)
      1. Chertt
        Chertt 5 March 2019 07: 55
        +1
        Quote: ares1988
        Are you really sure that 80 missiles can do so much that the United States must be afraid of them?)

        In the United States, the concept of "unacceptable harm" is widely used. Even one missile, with the corresponding warhead, guaranteed breaking the US missile defense system is such a factor.
        1. ares1988
          ares1988 5 March 2019 09: 59
          +3
          It is possible to overcome the US missile defense without Zircon, already available means. If there is no difference - why pay more?
        2. 5 – 9
          5 – 9 5 March 2019 12: 14
          -1
          The US missile defense system is focused solely and exclusively on transatmospheric interception of ICBMs (GBI) and RSD - THAAD. Well, even Patriot can on the SCAD, if it will shoot like an MLRS under ideal conditions. ABMs are ballistic missiles. Zircon - aerodynamic.
      2. 3vs
        3vs 5 March 2019 08: 25
        +2
        So it depends on what zircons are charged with, you can use regular explosives or you can use fusion ...
        By the way, on the "trampoline", it would be necessary to dunk Comrade Rogozin as a koteiko / tsobaken in his own puddle ...
        1. ares1988
          ares1988 5 March 2019 10: 00
          +1
          Answered above: Zircon is not needed for fusion. About Rogozin and Co.: +1
        2. Korax71
          Korax71 5 March 2019 10: 16
          +3
          Why are you in such a hurry to burn in a nuclear flame request Or do you have accurate information that they crash into the United States with a missile from a special warhead and burst into our legs?
          1. Den717
            Den717 5 March 2019 11: 37
            -2
            Quote: Korax71
            Do you have accurate information that they crash into the United States with a missile from a special warhead and burst into our legs?

            Do not need legs ..... Let rest in peace ..
            1. 3vs
              3vs 5 March 2019 13: 22
              0
              As Comrade Putin said:
              "And we, as a victim of aggression, we, as martyrs, will go to heaven, and they will simply die," Putin said. And he added: "Because they won't even have time to repent."
          2. Grits
            Grits 5 March 2019 14: 43
            0
            Quote: Korax71
            Why are you in such a hurry to burn in a nuclear flame request Or do you have accurate information that they crash into the United States with a missile from a special warhead and burst into our legs?

            The Americans had the idea of ​​fixing a global lightning strike. When a bunch of their non-nuclear missiles instantly destroy all the launchers of our nuclear forces (except for the SSBN, of course). Why don't we dream about such an idea? Possessing rockets with much steeper characteristics than the American. I would dream. The idea is tempting.
  3. Greenwood
    Greenwood 5 March 2019 07: 22
    -2
    Vladimir Putin said that work on the new anti-ship missile project is currently ongoing, the expected success has been achieved, and the weapon will be ready in the planned time.
    Ahah. lol
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 5 March 2019 07: 49
    +11
    Although I am Russian, but I can not stand Kiselyov!
    1. 3vs
      3vs 5 March 2019 08: 37
      -1
      Yes, many Russians can not stand him, Solovyov is also not a gift, but somehow acceptable.
      Here, at one time, Kleimenov was trying to work under Kiselev, especially when it came to grudging Grudinin, it turned out to be rather weak.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 5 March 2019 12: 45
        +1
        Why "screw up" him? He's already fucked up!
      2. VictorZhivilov
        VictorZhivilov 5 March 2019 23: 15
        +1
        Yes, many Russians can not stand him, Solovyov is also not a gift, but somehow acceptable.
        Here, at one time, Kleimenov was trying to work under Kiselev, especially when it came to grudging Grudinin, it turned out to be rather weak.

        It's a pity, "Children" does not match "Father" ... Ah, there was Time ... There was ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. VictorZhivilov
      VictorZhivilov 5 March 2019 23: 09
      +1
      Although I am Russian, but I can not stand Kiselyov!

      Well, what can I say ... Only the words of Hegel ... History repeats itself twice: the first time in the form of tragedy, the second in the form of farce.

      Foreman of the torpedo group of the 24th mine-torpedo aviation regiment A.V. Rakov is preparing a torpedo for installation on a British-made Hampden TB.I aircraft. On the dashboard - the inscription "For Kiseleva!" - in memory of the deceased commander of the 3rd squadron, captain V.N. Kiselev.

      On April 25, 1943, the 3rd Squadron attacked a German convoy in the Kong Fjord. The plane of the squadron commander, Captain Kiselev, was set ablaze when a torpedo was launched on the large ship Liisi. The Hampden crew rammed, sinking the enemy’s vehicles.

      Hampden TB.I torpedo bomber aircraft were used by the British to guard the northern convoys and were based at the Vaenga airfield near Murmansk, and then the remaining ones were transferred to the USSR, the 3rd squadron of the 24th Northern Fleet mine-torpedo regiment (MTAP), without English sights, cameras and some devices considered secret.
      Source: http://waralbum.ru/12506/
  5. Loki
    Loki 5 March 2019 07: 56
    -2
    Is all the noise in the yellow press around any fakes worth the attention of the most worthy public of VO?
  6. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 March 2019 08: 02
    +8
    Generally speaking, once again there are continuous ambiguities - is it so that Zircon is still RCC or not? Or does it come in 2 variants, both RCC and KR?
    Of course, Zircon is serious. Very seriously. We would still have ships under it ... and I don’t even want to ask how Kiselev counted the zircons 40 on the PL. Is Ash-tree = 32 in the mines and 8 in the TA?
    1. vvvjak
      vvvjak 5 March 2019 08: 55
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Generally speaking, again there are continuous ambiguities - so is Zircon still an anti-ship missile system or not?

      "Zircon" is the RCC. But it can be used for ground targets. Kind of like "Onyx" used in Syria. Another question is what is the point.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 March 2019 09: 02
        +2
        Quote: vvvjak
        "Zircon" is the RCC.

        I hope
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak 5 March 2019 09: 21
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: vvvjak
          "Zircon" is the RCC.

          I hope

          I hope so too. At least everything that has been published about Zircon makes it possible to position it as a RCC. And there who knows. I don’t understand something else - how did you increase the speed many times without changing the mass-dimensional characteristics?
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 March 2019 09: 34
            +4
            So to me too - miracles do not happen. No, I’ve heard out of the corner of my ear about a new rocket fuel, but ... In general, I am willing to believe in RCC on 400 km, but 1000 + is somehow not very good. Or is 400 RCC, and 1000 + KR? It would be logical.
            Actually, even 400 km, if this is a normal anti-ship missile, is very serious. But if this is just another drink of Iskender ...
            1. vvvjak
              vvvjak 5 March 2019 09: 53
              +3
              Fuel fuel - I think "dviglo" should be different. Another question with aiming at such a distance. GOS working in a plasma cloud? In general, there are a lot of questions. But if it really works, it's not just serious, it's a miracle. Come on, guess at the coffee grounds, we'll see what's next.
            2. vadimtt
              vadimtt 5 March 2019 10: 09
              +5
              What kind of chemical fuel do not invent more energy per kilogram of mass is not particularly crammed. There remains another option - to increase the efficiency of the process - detonation combustion. With this there are (were before zircon?) Difficulties.
              1. vvvjak
                vvvjak 5 March 2019 10: 18
                -1
                Quote: vadimtt
                There remains another option - to increase the efficiency of the process - detonation combustion.

                I heard about positive shifts in this field of engine building (even in the news). Maybe they have already "finished" to practical use.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 5 March 2019 11: 12
                0
                In general, you cram, with the help of mixtures - the very thing for ramjet.
            3. Vadim237
              Vadim237 5 March 2019 11: 09
              -2
              This missile will absolutely have the scramjet, a new rocket fuel for it.
              1. vvvjak
                vvvjak 5 March 2019 12: 01
                0
                Quote: Vadim237
                This missile will absolutely have the scramjet, a new rocket fuel for it.

                Let us suppose. Now let's estimate: the upper stage, the ramjet engine to accelerate the Zircon up to 5 M, the scramjet engine up to 9 M, + protective materials against high temperatures. And all this in the weight and overall dimensions of "Caliber" or "Onyx". Something is hard to believe.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 5 March 2019 16: 51
                  0
                  And that you can’t believe it, everything just fits, the thermal protection of 100 kilograms will weigh. TTRD is an accelerator of 500 kilograms of fuel — a high-energy powder mixture for a scramjet propulsion system of about 1400 liters, a combat part of 400 kilograms — it will fit into an 8-meter-high rocket.
            4. Pushkowed
              Pushkowed 5 March 2019 18: 59
              +2
              I have a suspicion that the "hypersonicity" of Zircon is achieved through the use of a ballistic trajectory (if not the entire flight path, then at least part of it). By analogy with the Dagger, it was announced as a new hypersonic missile system, and in fact the same Iskander, only an air launch. And since Iskander is a ballistic missile, it is not surprising that it is hypersonic.
              But Zircon is perhaps a kind of miniature ballistic missile, which was "stung" to the dimensions of the UKSK and Onyx. And the mode of shooting at ground targets, therefore, is the main one. Targeting can be like Pershing-2, but at the modern hardware and software level, using AI elements. In the case of use in the role of anti-ship missiles, guidance is possible as in the Chinese DF-21D (external target designation + INS + optical or radar seeker).
              What to do with a plasma cloud? Well, if the technology has not been invented that allows you to "see" the target from the inside of it, then only the old version remains, which was used on the Pershing (and there is a suspicion that it is used both on the DF-21D, and on the Dagger, and, possibly, even on the vaunted Vanguard): just slow down over the target so that the plasma cloud does not interfere, although this increases vulnerability to enemy missile defense.
              Range? Maybe 400 km on the deck (relatively low-altitude) trajectory, and 1000+ along the high-altitude. Or the warhead can be gliding, using aerodynamic forces in order to "get" the range after the engine has worked, throwing the warhead along a ballistic trajectory.
              Again, these are just my amateurish suspicions. I do not see any other way to provide a combination of "hypersonic speed + more than 1000 km range + homing in the final section" in the dimensions of the UKSK and at the modern technical level.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 5 March 2019 21: 11
                +3
                "just slow down over the target so that the plasma cloud does not interfere" ////
                ----
                I agree with you. The middle section is hypersonic. Guidance approximate, rocket
                uncontrollable on this site. At the terminal end, the rocket
                slows down to a small supersonic speed and searches for a target with the help of the GOS.
                This is if, in hypersound, it has not been carried far past the target.
    2. Simferopol
      Simferopol 5 March 2019 09: 07
      -2
      As for the Dagger, it was reported that he hit a target the size of a car. Without a good seeker, he would hardly have done it?
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 March 2019 09: 12
        +2
        Quote: Simferopol
        As for the Dagger, it was reported that he hit a target the size of a car. Without a good seeker, he would hardly have done it?

        If the car was moving, then yes. If you stood still ... JP would not be enough, but ...
        1. Simferopol
          Simferopol 5 March 2019 12: 54
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          If you stood still ... JP would not be enough, but ...

          That's right, that even if it was, then without the seeker, the accuracy would not be enough to get into an object the size of a car, and no "buts" in this case :)
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 March 2019 15: 18
            +2
            Quote: Simferopol
            That's right, that even if it was, then without the seeker, the accuracy would not be enough to get into an object the size of a car, and no "buts" in this case :)

            Simferopol, I am afraid that you absolutely do not understand what you are writing about.
            To hit the car, it would have been enough GPiEs + ordinary optics (the rocket recognizes the target by the reference images stored in its memory), but for working on a moving target this does not work from the word "in any way". There the necessary seeker with active homing. Which, by the way, does not want to work at hypersonic speeds.
            1. Simferopol
              Simferopol 5 March 2019 16: 18
              -2
              Why optics does not work on moving targets?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 March 2019 18: 30
                0
                Quote: Simferopol
                Why optics does not work on moving targets?

                Because the stationary target is photographed by the satellite spien from different angles and the seeker is "tied" not only to the target picture, but also to the surrounding area.
                In addition, there is one dirty nuance - having detected a rocket approach, a ship can easily and very quickly change its visualization.

                Optics is hard to figure out
  7. Simferopol
    Simferopol 5 March 2019 09: 05
    -3
    Already this year adoption
  8. Simferopol
    Simferopol 5 March 2019 09: 11
    -4
    Fu, what a proverbial trash Topwar has turned into. It's disgusting to even be among the old dull slugs
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 March 2019 09: 20
      +3
      Quote: Simferopol
      It's disgusting to even be among the old dull slugs

      And what holds? Propensity for masochism? laughing
      1. Simferopol
        Simferopol 5 March 2019 12: 47
        -2
        ___Inertia
    2. max702
      max702 5 March 2019 10: 16
      +2
      Quote: Simferopol

      Fu, what a proverbial garbage dump turned Topwar

      The site came to the first place among military-related sites in our country, and therefore fell into the circle of interests of various services .. Given that mass media traditionally set the tone for the media of the world bourgeoisie, there is nothing surprising in the negative direction of the smallest successes and inflating any failures .. People work ..
      RS: It is necessary to be extremely skeptical about all the statements of the parties, because today everyone lies, under a layer of lies hiding both good luck and lack of them .. If we recall SDI ..
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 5 March 2019 11: 13
        0
        We can say for sure - our missile industry is not lying.
      2. Simferopol
        Simferopol 5 March 2019 12: 48
        0
        Quote: max702
        The site came to the first place among military-related sites in our country, and therefore fell into the circle of interests of various services .. Given that mass media traditionally set the tone for the media of the world bourgeoisie, there is nothing surprising in the negative direction of the smallest successes and inflating any failures .. People work ..

        And so fast. I just don’t recognize the site. Another half a year was completely different.
        1. max702
          max702 5 March 2019 13: 24
          +1
          Quote: Simferopol
          And so fast.

          What I’m talking about, resources were connected in a considerable amount, the result we are observing ..
  9. BAI
    BAI 5 March 2019 09: 21
    +2
    Dmitry Kiselev, in his famous manner, spoke about the new missile and about the possible principles of its use against dangerous objects - those very decision-making centers of the probable enemy.

    The list of goals is determined by the General Staff. And he will not share this List with reporters. I have no doubt for a second, there are such objects that we do not suspect the existence of.
  10. nikolai.kolya
    nikolai.kolya 5 March 2019 09: 35
    0
    Welcome COLD WAR !!!! how we missed you !!!!
    and now ... ta dam !! everything for the front, everything for the production of zircons, daggers, posidon !!!!
    - why are taxes rising?
    - Are you the fifth column? we need to make rockets!
  11. Nike
    Nike 5 March 2019 09: 37
    -2
    From all the "rustle" about the "Zircons" I got the impression that their installation on ships has long been in full swing.
  12. Eremin AB
    Eremin AB 5 March 2019 09: 39
    +1
    Hello everybody. And really, I would like to firstly see a submarine capable of carrying 40 zircons, and secondly, see how it fits a shot distance. And thirdly, if there is an avant-garde already tested and more deadly, why zircon? As a RCC yes I agree. And for striking the territory? Here the avant-garde is many times superior to zircon. you don’t have to swim with him anywhere. Run straight from the Urals. And there are not particularly range limitations. to any point in the states and in even less time (after all, the boat still has to sail to the turn of the launch line. and to monitor such boats (if they certainly appear) will be very closely).
    1. max702
      max702 5 March 2019 10: 24
      0
      Quote: Eremin AV
      As a RCC yes I agree. And for striking the territory?

      Well done universal rocket what's wrong with that? It is clear that it’s not ideal, but better than nothing .. For example, a cumulative projectile was made as armor-piercing, but nevertheless it is perfectly used as an OFS without it (US tankers still). There may be different modes for use as RCC and as KR, or maybe not .. How do we know this? But I repeat if there is a possibility that this is bad? Ideally, in general, one missile for all occasions and the Kyrgyz Republic, anti-ship missiles, air defense, missile defense .. but technology does not allow it today, but in 20-30 years it’s possible ..
      1. vvvjak
        vvvjak 5 March 2019 10: 52
        0
        Quote: max702
        Ideally, in general, one missile for all occasions and the KR, anti-ship missiles, air defense, missile defense .. but today technology does not allow it

        Tukhachevsky somehow already proposed to make a universal gun for all cases of hostilities. The idea did not catch on and is not used by anyone until now, despite completely different technologies. I suspect the missiles will be the same, if only based on the "efficiency - price" parameter.
        1. max702
          max702 5 March 2019 11: 07
          0
          Quote: vvvjak
          Quote: max702
          Ideally, in general, one missile for all occasions and the KR, anti-ship missiles, air defense, missile defense .. but today technology does not allow it

          Tukhachevsky somehow already proposed to make a universal gun for all cases of hostilities. The idea did not catch on and is not used by anyone until now, despite completely different technologies. I suspect the missiles will be the same, if only based on the "efficiency - price" parameter.

          This is all understandable, but the technologies do not stand still, and it is very likely that both modes will not be equal, maybe the anti-ship missile system will be the main one, or maybe vice versa, but it is possible that there is no difference. We'll find out over the years if we live ..
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 5 March 2019 11: 18
      0
      The very appearance of a hypersonic anti-ship missile, as well as the Vanguard maneuvering warhead unit, will not be shown to us for a very long time, since the design itself, body contours, wings, corners are a state secret.
  13. 5 – 9
    5 – 9 5 March 2019 10: 53
    +1
    Such a stir, as if the United States and its allies could normally intercept subsonic (with volley launch and a normal amount) and even more so supersonic missile launchers / anti-ship missiles or Iskanders. 949A with 600 km of Granite with warheads of hundreds of kilotons off the coast of the United States could have been a quarter century like ... and nothing.
    It’s another matter that I would rather believe in interfering with Granit than intercepting it (although there are the first ones to be paired with the special control unit, this is no longer a fact). Well, maybe the latest SM-6 will give a normal probability of interception.
  14. viktorish007
    viktorish007 5 March 2019 11: 13
    -3
    zircon - from the word circus, while it is only known about it that it was developed, developed, and is being developed further, it is clear with some success, as an image of zircon - tracing-paper of the concept of brahmos2 - tracing-paper of the real Amer X51 (with which Americans themselves are tormented from the two thousandths and it is not clear when they already knock), there are no images of zircon itself and there is not even its concept

    judging by the absence of a victorious screech - there are no real results, if we can show anything in the metal - they immediately show it despite any secrecy, I really want propaganda (a dagger - when the air-launched ballistic missile was presented as some kind of miracle weapon - more than indicative )

    in general, two options:
    1) the epic stood in the same place as the X51 (provided that the analogue was actually developed)
    2) zircon is the same caliber only dying, it’s really possible to make a march 3,5–4 march, using boron-hydrogen fuels
    3) zircon - this is the name on the fence in the cooperative lake
    1. Gumma
      Gumma 5 March 2019 12: 09
      0
      Recently, I do not read comments. I see a lot of provocateurs, deservedly eating their bread from the hands of the enemy. Adjacent to them are mourners pouring tears at the mill of the overseas masters. This is how a simple information war goes.
  15. Old26
    Old26 5 March 2019 12: 37
    +2
    Quote: YOUR
    And why are MRCs and diesel submarines dangerous for the USA?

    Nothing. RTOs are only dangerous for US bases in their coverage area

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Sail to the coast of Iceland.

    RTOs? With their autonomy of 10-15 days and seaworthiness of 4-5 balls? These boats of the river-sea class ??? Well, they made fun. And diesel boats - they won't take Zircon at all, there is nothing for them to launch

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Cover the Atlantic.

    A couple of three Buyanov-M? Where can you shout hurray ????

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    They can hit the bases.

    May If the US base in the Mediterranean or the Persian Gulf. Further out of range

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    AUG will be driven outside the range of aviation. .

    Wow. Isn't it funny yourself? You send "to slaughter" against the AUG MRK with a complete absence of anti-aircraft missile and air defense systems and dream that these MRK will drive away somewhere outside the range of the AUG aviation ???

    Quote: KCA
    6-8-10 different types of cancer

    Take it higher. Up to 150 types of various missiles. Some kind of mass insanity against the background of the next published sample of weapons. Now they even put him wherever he basically does not fit. Well, of course, I want to show that we are steep. But the brains include and the materiel to know at the same time that it is no longer necessary
    I will ask only two questions
    1. The height of the UKSK 3S14 is known from which the Zircon can be launched, that is, the approximate length of the Zircon is known. Backfill question # 1. As a missile with such a length, you will "shove" into the standard torpedo tube of a diesel boat, in which the length of the torpedo tube is a couple of meters shorter
    2. It is known that the carriers can be the same as those of "Caliber", Carriers. But this does not mean that the 3S14 launcher will be STANDARD. The issue with the caliber of "Zircon" is still open. But the fact that it will not be a 533 mm caliber is unambiguous. And where will this "Zircon" be launched from the boat?

    Well, to read statements and calculations about how many of the 8 "Zircons" that will be intercepted on Buyan / Karakurt is generally a masterpiece. "Specialists" are going to send to Iceland not only that ships are not adapted for operations in the ocean, but also fully equip them exclusively with "Zircons". That is, any boat with a small anti-ship missile will launch this "Superwunderwaffe" ...

    Quote: Romario_Argo
    that on all destroyers and cruisers of the U.S. Navy you need to raise survey radars to a height of 50-60 meters to expand the radio horizon to 120 km. This means that in a 3-point storm RCC Zircon (V = 3,5 km / second) will be detected in 90 km

    Novel! I always admire your peremptory conclusions to be drawn based on what kind of source data is unknown. Now, with a smart look, you are doing calculations from the calculation that readers are so stupid that they will believe you. There are two ways to expand the horizon to 120 km. Raise the radar to a certain height or increase the altitude of the target. You raise the radar to a height of 60 meters. But this will not give the radio horizon of the desired range. For this, the rocket should go at a height of several hundred meters above the water. And you HYPERSONIC will go at that height with a speed of 9M ???? Are you laughing Putin himself said from the screen that MARCH HEIGHT flight "Zircon" - FORTY KILOMETERS

    Quote: nike
    From all the "rustle" about the "Zircons" I got the impression that their installation on ships has long been in full swing.

    Any opinion can be formed. Here is the answer to your question. Would you put into service a missile system that has not yet passed the entire test cycle? Well, you don't want a missile system - for example, a tank, or a submarine. Or a plane. Why is it worth the appearance of another "wunderwaffe", as thoughts immediately appear that the installation on the ships is probably in full swing .... What have you missed out on ????

    In short. Now we have to run to work, all this urya-patriotic .... I’ll try to comment on the stream of consciousness in the evening, if there is a mood. The funny thing is that those who ask questions, real questions - are minuscated in full ...
    1. Moor_Zeek
      Moor_Zeek 5 March 2019 14: 08
      -1
      Don't worry about it :-) The combination Zircon + Poseidon = Wunderwaffe will completely fix the "unsolvable" problems. If not today, then tomorrow. And do not rush, otherwise catch all the fleas :-)
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 5 March 2019 16: 59
      0
      Nozzle nozzle and 140 liters of liquid Argon - why don’t you cooling the body of a hypersonic rocket flying at an altitude of 60 meters at a speed of 9 Machs.
  16. Appokalipsis
    Appokalipsis 5 March 2019 15: 14
    0
    And what are the problems with the Buyans and Varshavyanki ..... Quite decent ships ..... And I don’t see any problems getting from Kamchatka to Chan Francisco ..... The main fuel limit ... according to the stated data, 100 meter boat 55 man crew, autonomy 10 days ... speed 25 knots .... to San Francisco 3500 miles, refueling in the Pacific Ocean beyond the Bering Islands and ... hello and goodbye San Francisco .. .. Warsaw 45 days autonomy speed is 17 knots ...., At this speed Buyan will have more autonomy for a couple of days ..... Yes, the number of carriers is not special, but the targets are point-wise, it doesn’t hit areas ... So there are no problems, us STR-503 project, a fisherman 50 meters in total, in storms up to 7 points, feels confident, and catches at a distance of 1500 miles
    1. Ivanchester
      Ivanchester 5 March 2019 22: 50
      +1
      Judging by your post, you believe that the submarine should move to the shores of a potential enemy exclusively in the surface position.
      This is really an “asymmetric response to the aggressor”!
  17. GibSoN
    GibSoN 5 March 2019 19: 29
    +1
    Gentlemen! Let's not argue about anything. To date, only one thing is clear! Zircon is a Wishlist. But as you know, Wishlist does not always work out ... You can talk as much as you like, especially since you cannot verify the proof and, moreover, punish it in any way! Listen to the speeches of VVP & Co. about how we all live well! This is said to those who can not only check it on themselves, but in general prove that this is a lie, even "on the fingers"! Now imagine that the same people are talking about what is generally super-secret! In general, the conversation is about nothing.
  18. Old26
    Old26 5 March 2019 23: 19
    0
    Quote: Vadim237
    Nozzle nozzle and 140 liters of liquid Argon - why don’t you cooling the body of a hypersonic rocket flying at an altitude of 60 meters at a speed of 9 Machs.

    Vadim! And where do you place with such a tight arrangement
    1. Spray nozzle. Yes, and so to cool the case
    2. Where do you put the same 140 liters of liquid argon, given that it still needs to be in the appropriate vessel in order to be liquid ???
    After all, it’s necessary not only to come up with an option, but also to implement it technically, and how you are going to do it, it seems you didn’t even try to think

    Quote: Moor_Zeek
    Bundle Zircon + Poseidon = Wunderwaffe, will completely fix "unsolvable" problems

    And you still haven't answered how you are going to launch Zircon from Poseidon, not to mention how you are going to place Zircon in a compartment that is three meters shorter than it with TTU

    Quote: Appokalipsis
    And what are the problems with the Buyans and Varshavyanki ..... Quite decent ships ..... And I don’t see any problems getting from Kamchatka to Chan Francisco ..... The main fuel limit ... according to the stated data, 100 meter boat 55 man crew, autonomy 10 days ... speed 25 knots .... to San Francisco 3500 miles, refueling in the Pacific Ocean beyond the Bering Islands and ... hello and goodbye San Francisco .. .. Warsaw 45 days autonomy speed is 17 knots ...., At this speed Buyan will have more autonomy for a couple of days ..... Yes, the number of carriers is not special, but the targets are point-wise, it doesn’t hit areas ... So there are no problems, us STR-503 project, a fisherman 50 meters in total, in storms up to 7 points, feels confident, and catches at a distance of 1500 miles

    Are you going to launch ships of the "River-Sea" type across the Pacific Ocean? With their seaworthiness? And what about the fact that they have NOTHING except these 8 launchers for "Caliber" and "Onyx". No PLO, no air defense ??? And no one at all knows how many Zircon launchers will be on these boats.

    Well, in "Varshavyanka" where are you going to put "Zircons" ??? In torpedo tubes of caliber 533 mm?

    So what, what is a fisherman? Do you seriously think that it is possible to put weapons on a civilian vessel without any consequences, turning it into a pirate one? Or is there a desire for the enemy to drown everything? Both fishermen and military vessels?

    Quote: mvg
    Where does this manna from heaven come from? Out of nowhere materialized?

    Maxim! Do you know where? There is such a term. Hyperspace transposition. Here is a boat with "Zircon" at the pier in Murmansk. The corresponding device is switched on. The zero transition opens and the rocket is 200 km from the AUG. Several seconds of flight and a nuclear explosion over the AUG laughing

    Quote: Operator
    The enemy’s problem is different: the army, navy, aviation and the newly created US space forces do not have the means to intercept aircraft moving at this level from the word altogether.

    I agree with you. True, we must add that WHEN ARE ABSENT. As well as the "Zircon" is still missing

    Quote: Romario_Argo
    So what? on RCC Zircon algorithms are on Granite and Onyx, as soon as RCC detects opposition in the form of missiles, the general pack leaves for the horizon, except for the command missile, no matter how you roll the missiles go to 10 meters for 300 km. to the goal.

    Are you already familiar with the algorithms used on the Zircons? And still at large?
    Leaving to a height of 10 meters .... Roman. Even the aforementioned "Granites" and "Onyxes", which fly at high altitude at a speed of 2,5M, fly at low speed at less than 2M. TWO, ​​NOVEL. Do you have a rocket with a speed of 9M at an altitude of 10 meters? This despite the fact that the surface temperature of the rocket will be above 6000 degrees ???? What material can withstand such a temperature load and after how many seconds the rocket will burn, going at a height of 10 meters

    Quote: Operator
    Speed ​​9M and range +800 km can be realized only at an altitude of 40 km. Therefore, the hypersonic "Zircon" (in contrast to the supersonic "Onyx") begins to descend to the target 40 km away from it. And, of course, no flocks of "Zircons" - an exclusively pair application (the first missile jam the radars, the second hits the target).

    I think that the beginning of the decline will begin 70-100 kilometers from the target. Of course, with a decrease in speed. And whether there will be a paired application is still not clear.

    Quote: Romario_Argo
    Better substantively and in a complex for a specific locality (!)
    RCC range Zircon 1000 km. Example: Kuril ridge of islands. DEPL pr. 636.6 rises in the strait between the islands in the threatened direction. 500 there - 500 here BC - 4 anti-ship missiles
    the entire ridge is shot through, and another 2 RTOs, pr. 22800, on catch on the shallows behind the rocks somewhere, BC - 16 anti-ship missiles. On Iturup and Matua, the Bastion BPRK division has 8 anti-ship missiles, with Balls - 32 anti-ship missiles.
    already accumulated: 20 hypersonic, 8 supersonic, 32 subsonic anti-ship missiles

    "Zircons" on boats of project 636.6 ??? How long will you carry this nonsense? Where are you going to let them in from this boat? Well, RTOs with only Zircons are a masterpiece. This means that smaller vessels will be in complete safety when meeting with RTOs

    Quote: YOUR
    And what is there to know. Caliber RCC family. With a firing range of 35 km to 300.

    The range is a little more. At least under 400 km ... Up to 300 km are export modifications.

    Quote: YOUR
    There is also a strategic caliber missile firing range of 2500 km. This rocket can only shoot at stationary targets.

    Everything is correct, but it is considered to be an operational-tactical missile rather than a strategic one. Unless with YabZ ...

    Quote: YOUR
    It is known about Zircon that this missile is anti-ship with a firing range of 350 - 500 km.

    It is still difficult to judge the range. Before Putin's speech, the range of 400 km was announced, the GDP was announced 1000 km. Whether we are talking about different missiles (by analogy with the "Caliber" or about the same - it is not yet clear ...

    Quote: YOUR
    Guidance system combined initial stage inertial i.e. the rocket is fired towards the enemy, at the final stage homing.

    Most likely yes

    Quote: Den717
    In terms of "calibers", they once declared that the available capacity is about 200 units per year.

    Cut the sturgeon in half. In 2018, EMNIP received about 116 "Calibers", taking into account incl. EMNIP pieces 8 anti-ship.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 6 March 2019 01: 07
      0
      The cone is a tantalum carbide atomizer on the nose of the rocket, there are two bypasses there - a guidance system, channel tubes of 140 liters of liquid argon are about 3,5 standard cylinders of 40 liters - they will fit into a rocket with a diameter of 53 centimeters - length is 170 cm.
  19. Karislav
    Karislav 6 March 2019 08: 13
    0
    two bases were closed in 2000)) ay Kiselev!)
  20. Old26
    Old26 6 March 2019 11: 59
    0
    Quote: Vadim237
    The cone is a tantalum carbide atomizer on the nose of the rocket, there are two bypasses there - a guidance system, channel tubes of 140 liters of liquid argon are about 3,5 standard cylinders of 40 liters - they will fit into a rocket with a diameter of 53 centimeters - length is 170 cm.

    But "Zircon" has no nasal cone at all. And the line-up is so tight that there is nowhere just to put three and a half of your 40-liter cylinders 170 cm long. Nowhere. Look at the cut of at least the same X-51. There, God forbid, a place to find for warheads, and even gondobit your cooling system in the form of a cone to the edge, which is not cone-shaped - this is generally a masterpiece
  21. Petio
    Petio 10 March 2019 23: 11
    0
    Quote: UMA-UMA
    The gdp declared a lot of things, for example, by the year 20 to create 25 million jobs. The country, as it was in the backward ones, is and will be until all your idols are in power. And yet, I am waiting for statistics on the use of an anti-ship missile in Syria: what was destroyed and how much.

    Applied and the Bastion on the ground in Syria 17 11 2016 -2 pieces, more or less hit. X-35s were used with Su-34s and 35s for testing, and for another reason, the lack of V-59 missiles so far. X-2MK700 will arrive. Now this is not a problem - everything is western, the anti-ship missiles are also adapted for work on the ground - it is not difficult with modern satellite navigation systems and radar heads for terrain images if there is one. I fully believe that both the Dagger and Zircon can work on fixed purposes. It is much more difficult to work on ships at a distance of 1000-2018 km. It is on this part that a lot of questions arise for these systems. For example, information skipped through the Dagger in XNUMX that so far it can only work on the ground and stationary ships. Now it may have changed
  22. Fevralsk. Morev
    Fevralsk. Morev 13 March 2019 12: 47
    0
    If Dmitry Kiselyov in his famous manner told .... then nonsense. Because it’s jelly.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Lapunevsky
    Lapunevsky April 12 2019 19: 05
    -2
    If you listen to the media wave of the last year, you get the impression that before all these "Zircons, Daggers, Poseidons, Sarmatians" and so on, Russia was toothless and could not resist the United States at all. And like the Yankees lived before and were in no way afraid of our strategic nuclear forces and the army. And in general, the type of Russia had nothing. And then suddenly they were afraid.
  25. Vitaly Scorpio
    Vitaly Scorpio 30 March 2021 17: 21
    0
    Quote: Carpenter 2329
    There is an AUG. Zircon arrives with BCH. Explodes over aug.
    What will happen to AUG, YOUR?

    1-2 escort ships are damaged. On the ships near the epicenter, routine measures were taken to decontaminate decks and superstructures. The aircraft carrier was not injured, takeoff and landing operations are carried out without delay.
    All this, of course, provided that your "Zircon" even reaches the AUG ...
  26. Vitaly Scorpio
    Vitaly Scorpio 30 March 2021 17: 27
    0
    Quote: Romario_Argo

    that on all destroyers and cruisers of the U.S. Navy it is necessary to raise survey radars to a height of 50-60 meters in order to expand the radio horizon to 120 km. This means that in 3's, the ballistic storm RCC Zircon (V = 3,5 km / second) will be detected in 90 km. Aigis hardware processing = 8 seconds (on the radar Don-2Н - 2,5 seconds)
    + dead zone is equal to 10 km around any ship
    Therefore, the margin of time = 22,8 seconds, which is enough to launch 11 missiles, at the rate of 3 on 1 Zircon. The maximum can hit 4 Zircon from 8 - this is the BK of the same MRK Karakurt
    BUT (!) The situation is much worse because Now the radio horizon at Berkov and Tikonderoger = 60 km., and to detect RCC Zircon during the 3 ball storm is possible only for 40 km. - 10 km. dead zone at the ship.
    * Today's reality for the US Navy, 8,6 seconds. - 8 seconds for hardware processing. The remainder 0,6 seconds. which is not even enough to launch 1 missiles and incline it towards the target (!)

    And here boring questions arise about the flight profile of the Zircon and the speed on the marching section. There are gloomy suspicions that most of the way it flies at a high altitude, which means that it will be found not at 40-60 km, but at several times greater distance - with a corresponding increase in the reaction time of air defense systems ...
  27. Vitaly Scorpio
    Vitaly Scorpio 30 March 2021 17: 47
    0
    Quote: Chertt
    In the United States, the concept of "unacceptable harm" is widely used. Even one missile, with the corresponding warhead, guaranteed breaking the US missile defense system is such a factor.

    Dadad, the Japanese also thought so in the 30s: the main thing is to give the Americans a strong blow in the face, so that they get scared, and quickly offer them peace before they come to their senses. For 4 years the Americans explained in detail to the Japanese the depth of their delusions; and "unacceptable damage" with home delivery in Nagasaki and Hiroshima to the Japanese organized. And the Japanese had to sign one unpleasant document on board the Missouri.
    Are you sure you want to repeat this Japanese experiment? Aren't you afraid that in the end you also have to sign something on board, say, "J. Ford"? laughing