Military Review

Submarines and psychological warfare. Part of 1

On the night of 27 on 28 of October 1981, an incident occurred in the Swedish territorial waters, which still had unpredictable consequences: near the naval base of the Swedish naval forces, Karlskrona, in the days when some new Swedish torpedoes were tested (according to Swedes, at least), in a zone with an extremely complex channel, where, according to the Swedes, you can't accidentally get in, the Soviet diesel-electric submarine C-363 of the 613 project stranded.

History This incident is sufficiently covered in the press and in the memoirs of veterans of the subfloat. There is no need to waste time discussing it - Russia still claims that this was a consequence of a navigational error, those serving in the Baltic Fleet in those years are inclined to the same point of view, mentioning also the crew’s sloppiness (there is no reliable evidence of this). The Swedes are sincerely convinced that it was a Soviet reconnaissance operation, and that the boat had at least two torpedoes with a nuclear warhead on board.

Submarines and psychological warfare. Part of 1

Fatal Incident: C-363 and the first Swedes about

But much more interesting is what was after. And after that there was a lot of things, and most of this “a lot” in our country, unfortunately, is completely unknown and not realized.

Sweden geographically dominates the Baltic Sea on the one hand, and is not part of the NATO bloc on the other. This neutrality, I must say, is very “pro-Western” - so the Swedish submarine “Gottland” was based in the USA for several years, where the Americans perfected their PLO on it. But the degree of "pro-Western" Swedish policy is now much higher than it was in the late seventies. And the reasons for this are closely related to the C-363 incident.

Starting from the sixties, the Swedes, suspicious to paranoia (for example, the systematic mining of their territorial waters is the norm - just in case) recorded six incidents, which they designated as incidents with submarines, successively in 1962, 1966, 1969, 1974, 1976 and 1980's. Five incidents in 18 years. In this case, the incident in 1966 year was a multi-day chase, with the use of depth charges on a foreign submarine. Detect, however, failed. A separate case is the case of espionage of the Soviet submarine that frightened the Swedes on the border of the Swedish territorial waters, followed by entry into them - this was a rare case when the submarine was identified. And then - With-363.

It is not known exactly whose submarines the Swedes had discovered before, and some discovery facts can be questioned altogether. But after the C-363 the Swedes seemed to burst.

After C-363, the number of foreign submarines in the Swedish territorial waters has increased dramatically, and evidence of more arrogant specs began to appear. foreign naval operations. Mindful of the C-363, the Swedes threw all the responsibility on the USSR, and more and more drifted into the arms of NATO.

Here is a list of incidents in the eighties:

1. October 1 - October 13 1982 of the year. Signs of a submarine near Harsfjord (Swede. Hårsfjärden). Four Swedish ground bottom mines were detonated, PLO forces used 44 depth charges to reach the submarine. To no avail. However, there is another opinion about the release of this submarine into neutral waters and below it will be announced.

2. May 1983 of the year. Two cases. The first is the detonation of anchor mines in the Törefjörd (Swede.Törefjärden) fjord of the Bothnian Bay, and the PLO helicopter’s contact with the submarine near the town of Sundsvall (Swede. Sundsvall).

3. Summer 1983 of the year. Search submarines in Terreviken (Swede. Töreviken).

4. August 1983 of the year. Hunting for a submarine in the bay of Karlskrona and the archipelago of the same name. The boat was allegedly found right in the base of the Swedish Navy, depth charges were used.

5. February 9 - February 29 1984 of the year. Another search operation in the bay of Karlskrona. Used 22 depth charges.

6. June 1986 of the year. In the area of ​​the island of Gotland, eyewitnesses noticed that “something” was immersed in water. A survey of the seabed was conducted, the presence of traces of an underwater tracked vehicle at the bottom was found, the length of the trail was 1100 meters.

Soviet tracked vehicles for movement on the bottom. In the United States, these were also there.

7. June 1987 of the year. Acoustic contact with the boat in the Törefjörf fjord.

8. Summer 1987 of the year. The town of Kappelhamnsviken (Swede. Kappelhamnsviken) of the island of Gotland, clear traces of an underwater vehicle were found on the seabed.

9. June 1988 of the year. Presumably a foreign submarine was found in Hovrigebukten Bay (Swede. Hävringebukten) in the area of ​​Oxelosund (Swede. Oxelösund). Recorded noise of propellers and purging of ballast tanks.

And then how cut. And the Swedes did not find any more boats in their waters for the time being. And there was not even a hint.

The next time a foreign submarine will be spotted only in the fall of the year 2014. We will come back to this later, but for now let's estimate the correlation.

What did we have in the eighties? In the eighties, the team of Ronald Reagan Crusaders maniacs went on the attack on the USSR, on all fronts, from the oceans to Afghanistan. And as soon as the figures from the Baltic Fleet indicated the possibility of finding a Soviet submarine in the Swedish territorial waters, such discoveries began to flow, and the Swedes had various material evidence at their disposal.

And in 2014? In 2014 was the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. And - lo and behold! - in the territorial waters of Sweden again began to show up submarines. Whose? Of course, the Russians, who can still climb in the Swedish territorial waters, were a precedent ...

As is clear from the statistics, unknown, but presumably Russian, submarines begin to surf the Swedish waters when the United States and Britain need to aggravate relations between the Russian Federation and Europe. In other periods there is nothing like that.

According to social surveys, from 1980 to 1983. the proportion of Swedes who saw the threat in the USSR increased from 10 to 45 percent. And, as a result, Swedish neutrality has slowly ceased to be neutrality, and now, in fact, it is not. There are no guarantees that Sweden will not join NATO in the near future.

But what was all this about? Did the USSR really want to spoil themselves so much that they pushed the Swedes to membership in the North Atlantic Alliance? And why should Russia send a submarine to Swedish waters in 2014? This is, after all, beyond good and evil, it is unlikely in the world there is a country less interested in strengthening NATO than Russia.

What's the matter?

The answer was given by a man named Ole Tunander, a very prominent and influential public figure in Sweden, an expert on foreign and domestic policy, a political scientist, a sociologist, a journalist and a writer. Tunander, who is one of the leading researchers of the phenomenon of the “deep state” (deep state), and by what methods this “deep state” operates, discovered later in his research that Sweden has not passed this cup. And that in the depths of Swedish society there are structures that, in aggregate, Tunander himself calls “Military Sweden”, as opposed to the obvious, “Neutral Sweden”.

From the words of Tunander himself, in 90-ies of the twentieth century, during interviewing with him various officials, both in Sweden and the USA and in other countries, he often heard that in fact, a huge number of foreign submarines in the Swedish waters was not a delusion of the Swedes, nor the Soviet submarines. In the first half of the 90, some high-ranking US Navy officers told him directly. It was then, according to his confession, that he stopped believing in the official version of Soviet espionage. But that was only the beginning.

In the early nineties, Thunander met the captain of the US Navy, Robert Bathurst, a former assistant naval attache of the United States in Moscow on the 60, who served in military and administrative posts at the Pentagon, in intelligence of the United States Navy in Europe and other structures. After the end of the Cold War, Bathhurst, married to a Norwegian citizen, came to Scandinavia and ended up in Norway, where he met Tunander, who was then working in Oslo, at the International Peace Research Institute. There Tunander and persuaded him to start working at the institute with him. It was then that Bathhurst learned from Thunander about his suspicions regarding western submarines.

In 2000, former US Secretary of Defense under Reagan, Caspar Weinberger, in one of his TV interviews, stated that during the Cold War, American submarines regularly "tested" the Swedish anti-submarine defense, of course, in agreement with the Swedish military. But Tunander, who by that time was already interested in the question, knew that at least officially there were no such agreements between the United States and Sweden. This sharply spurred his interest in the question and he asked for Bethurst, who had become his friend by that time to help him figure it out.

The friend did not refuse, and made a trip to the USA, where he tried to interview his former colleagues, both from the sub-melt and intelligence, and from the special units of SEAL. But instead of answering, he received an extremely insistent recommendation from his colleagues to keep his mouth shut and not get into such questions.

Two months later, Bathhurst died suddenly for everyone. By this time, Thunander was already in full questioning high-ranking military and diplomats on issues relating to the history of submarines. He was lucky, and soon he was able to get some pretty interesting evidence from Einar Ainstesensen, a Norwegian diplomat, in 80-s involved in the process of making policy decisions for Norway, including NATO-related political decisions. Einsteensen shocked him, saying the following during the conversation.

The submarine, which the Swedish Navy drove depth charges at Harsfiord, was not Soviet. It was an American mini-submarine, and she was there without any permission from the Swedish authorities, which resulted in the use of weapons. And this application was successful - the boat received heavy damage, and it would have been finished off, but for some reason, at the last moment, the Swedish Navy received orders to release it into neutral waters.

Einsteensen could still tell a lot, and he was not against it, but after the very first conversation with Tunander, he, too, died suddenly. Tunander himself recalled later that quite a few high-ranking officers and the military with whom he came in contact died very quickly.

Nevertheless, Thunander managed to collect a huge array of information, and in 2001, he combined all his interviews and collected materials into the book The Secret War Against Sweden. Underwater deception of the USA and Great Britain in the 1980's. ” In the same year, the book was published in Swedish, and a little later, in 2004, in English.

A book full of transcripts of radio communications and testimonies of participants in a hunt for submarines reads like a thriller. The picture of NATO’s epic many years of provocation against the USSR, which was aimed at turning Sweden from the path of a neutral state, is described in detail. Tunander is trying to be objective. Thus, describing the evidence of naval officers who participated in the 1982 operation of the year, he mentions that the Navy identified the radar signal from a West German-made submarine. But it indicates that the equipment that the naval forces had at that time did not allow to accurately distinguish the radar signal of the submarine from the navigation radar of a civilian vessel, moreover, the error in determining the location of the radar station in those years made it impossible to determine exactly which side of the territorial waters border . The whole book Tununder replete with such details from the direct participants in the events.

At the same time, Thunander gives evidence of the boat commander "Fashion»That he did not find any civilian courts in the radar area.

Tununder cites hundreds of facts that summarize what they are talking about.

After the Soviet stupidity with C-363, the United States and Britain launched a series of psychological impact operations on Swedish society (later, by 2009, Tunader showed that these operations had the support of some Swedish elites interested in joining NATO) in order to convince the Swedes that they were victims of Soviet intelligence and subversion. To do this, using the allies, the United States and Britain regularly sent ultra-small submarines, SEAL detachments with underwater vehicles, including tracked ones for traveling along the bottom, into the Swedish territorial waters, with the task of conducting demonstrative actions that would convince the Swedes that the Russians had not calmed down and continue to penetrate their territorial waters. The United States and Britain used in their activities diesel submarines of NATO allies (although the NATO structures had nothing to do with this, these were operations conducted under the command of the United States and a bit of Britain). And these operations were a dizzying success - the neutrality of Sweden was really undermined, and the hostility of Sweden towards the USSR really increased significantly.

Tununder was supported by people like Karl Rolf Ekeus, a former Swedish ambassador to Washington, who conducted his own investigation into the ties between the American and Swedish military, and the former Finnish president, Mauno Koivisto. The latter said the following: in his time, in a conversation with him, the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee, Yuri Andropov, convincingly asked him to immediately sink any submarine, which the Finns would notice in their territorial waters. Koivisto did not doubt that Tunander was right and called the actions of the Anglo-Saxons in the Swedish territorial waters a provocation.

But the final result is important.

Although the deception of the Anglo-Saxons revealed, it had little effect. First, the sediment remained. Many years of propaganda against the Russians have borne fruit, and the fact that in fact we have nothing to do, did not make the Swedes better towards us. Secondly, during the eighties, the Anglo-Saxons actively infiltrated the Swedish elites, literally cultivating their people there, as a result of which they now have carte blanche for subversive actions - whatever they did against Sweden, an essential part of the Swedish politician and The military will support this, so long as the owners are satisfied. In recent years, Sweden has become a real source of personnel for all sorts of globalist, pro-American international organizations, and the heat of Russophobia there would “do honor” to most NATO countries. And this is the result of the work of the Americans, which was started by the submarine forces of the US Navy, and not by someone else, and our defeat.

It is not surprising that the successful recipe was used again when it was again necessary to make an enemy out of Russia.

In October, 2014, in the Swedish territorial waters, again spotted a submarine. Under the periscope. In the afternoon. Near the shore. Many times. In one of which - by chance, completely by accident - the photographer of the Reuters agency was next. British agency. With a camera, of course, what kind of photographer walks without a camera?

Periscope off the coast in the afternoon. Professionalism "Russian" is amazing, even if the next blockbuster shoot with stupid Ivan, balalaika and bears. Or is someone intentionally substituted?

In the chain of events, of course, it would be worthwhile to introduce the fact that the then Minister of Defense of Sweden, Peter Hulqvist, was a supporter of joining NATO, and that the command of the Swedish Navy was “cleansed” long ago and there was no one there who really was puzzled by the Swedish sovereignty, or would put it above the interests of the suzerain, and the fact that in those October days, according to the Russian Defense Ministry, the Dutch (NATO) submarine Bruinvis was in the area, but who cares? Moreover, this submarine a couple of days after I. Konashenkov’s statement hit the frame of one of the Swedish photographers - here it is.

But it was too late.

The Western press, from yellow to professional naval, was noted in the most detailed articles about how democratic Sweden is looking for someone, it seems, a Russian submarine, and how the whole free world supports it. The fact of getting the Dutch submarine into the lens has not yet been reflected in any major Western media - just like that, just ignore the evidence when the American empire is behind you. And the desired effect was again achieved despite everything, Sweden, with the support of its population, froze military cooperation with Russia, and now takes an extremely hard-nosed Russophobic position on all issues related to our country.

And the first entry of “Military Sweden”, the Swedish “Deep State” into the arena, was precisely the passage of an American submarine into neutral waters in 1982.

This is how it works.

Anglo-Saxon operations with submarines are a great example of peacetime operations that had a strategic effect. Unfortunately, in Russia the overwhelming majority of the population and a significant part of the elites simply cannot imagine what was happening in the Swedish territorial waters and what it eventually led to. We laugh at the suspicions of ordinary Swedes and moan about what they actually saw there instead of a submarine, not realizing that the submarines there are quite real, and the operations they carry out cause us great damage. We would learn from our enemies, and, perhaps, they could inflict some damage, perhaps think of how we will cover all this for ordinary inhabitants of Scandinavia and will be able to play back the political damage inflicted on us ...

But we are as usual.

Of interest is also the kind of structures and forces that carried out all this huge sabotage. After all, such operations should have had a specific performer, a deeply secret structure, controlled from the very "top", with a minimum length of command chains to prevent leaks. And it should be headed by a very non-trivial person, deeply understanding how to influence the situation with the help of the naval forces and achieve strategic goals. And all this should be in the shadows, not in sight.

To be continued ...
Photos used:
Swedish Navy, Bengt Gustafsson, Reuters

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  1. Comrade
    Comrade 2 March 2019 05: 52
    Rather, the Loch Ness monster will be caught than a Russian submarine in Swedish territorial waters. Thank you for the article, interesting and informative.
    1. g1v2
      g1v2 2 March 2019 13: 25
      For a very simple reason. We have only one submarine in the Baltic Sea and to trace where it is located is quite simple. Nothing just to catch the Swedes. Pass imperceptibly through the Danish straits and not light up anywhere in the way for submarines from the North - from the unreal area. They can scare the Swedes only those who through the Danish Straits can pass without publicity. Well, or through the Kiel Canal. That is, NATO submarines.
      However, much more interesting is infa about mini-submarines. The Baltic Sea is a cemetery of submarines and with modern means is flat and its depths, an ordinary submarine will be easily found. But the mini-submarine can conduct reconnaissance and saboteurs to land and attack someone if necessary. And finding it is much more difficult. We ourselves had plans for the construction of babies for the Baltic. Especially if somewhere in the Baltic Sea or nearby NATO mini-submarines that regularly go on a mission are based, then we must be prepared for this. hi
      1. timokhin-aa
        2 March 2019 16: 55
        Google the NR-1 submarine. However, this will be in the next part.
        1. g1v2
          g1v2 2 March 2019 16: 59
          Does it seem to be decommissioned? In addition, basing apl in the Baltic seems to be prohibited?
          1. timokhin-aa
            2 March 2019 17: 45
            It is written off now. But in 80 ...

            Amerskie conspiracy therapists are absolutely sure that this submarine was used in Swedish provocations in the 80s. And the Americans could have ensured the passage of such a spoon through the Danish straits without notifying anyone.
            1. g1v2
              g1v2 2 March 2019 18: 13
              Well, in principle, they could. The Danes would hardly begin to disclose this topic. But for this, such a mini-play should not be based too far. Still, the dimensions affect the autonomy range. But in theory, when basing in the UK or Norway, she could go to the Baltic. But as far as I know, according to official figures, she was constantly based in Groton. There was no evidence that she was relocated to Europe.
              There are simpler versions. In the 60s, Germany had Project 202 boats from Italy SX-404. But the most interesting thing was in the UK - Stickleback class submarines. 4 boats were built in the 50s. One by the way was given or sold to the Swedes - I don't remember. They were all written off in the 60s. But it is quite possible that they were written off only officially. Or that there were still classmates of theirs who were not officially built. In general, the topic is quite interesting within the framework of not only the Baltic. By the way, the initial task of these mini-submarines was almost like our modern Poseidon - to deliver a nuclear warhead to Soviet ports and detonate it. In general, this is practically the prototype of our "cartoon". hi
              1. timokhin-aa
                2 March 2019 21: 11
                Tunander is sinning on German dieleukhi, like the signature of the radar is similar. Americans sin on the NR-1 and the Britons.

                There is even a version that Indonesia bought one of the 613's for this business.

                Well, we have seen the Dutch recently.

                In short - there was a lot of options.
                1. g1v2
                  g1v2 3 March 2019 13: 23
                  Well, the Germans are certainly the most likely option. They can go through the Kiel Canal at any time without notifying someone.
  2. Brylevsky
    Brylevsky 2 March 2019 07: 15
    Quote: Comrade
    Rather, the Loch Ness monster will be caught than a Russian submarine in Swedish territorial waters.

    October 28, 1981, C-363. There is a precedent. Stupidly stupid ... Here you can read about it.
    1. timokhin-aa
      2 March 2019 10: 11
      Yes, the USSR was noble then.
  3. Lopatov
    Lopatov 2 March 2019 09: 49
    And the first entry of “Military Sweden”, the Swedish “Deep State” into the arena, was precisely the passage of an American submarine into neutral waters in 1982.

    Why did "Stalin's falcons" overwhelm a Swedish reconnaissance aircraft on June 13, 1952? Moreover, only a hundred kilometers from Ventspils ...
    It looks like the Swedish "deep state" actually showed itself 30+ years earlier ....
    1. timokhin-aa
      2 March 2019 10: 11
      Then it was rather a combination of Swedish paranoia and residual loyalty to Nazi Germany. And in 1982, the Swedish military opposed their own country, and this is a completely different matter.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 2 March 2019 10: 27
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Then it was rather a combination of Swedish paranoia and residual loyalty to Nazi Germany.

        As it turns out, little is needed for a "neutral state" to receive the latest RT reconnaissance aircraft from the United States. Which were not available to all allies ...

        In fact, it all started with the "missile attack" in August 1946. Allegedly, rockets were launched at the Scandinavian countries from Peenemünde, which is under Soviet occupation
        1. timokhin-aa
          2 March 2019 16: 59
          Lopatov, I am not surprised that you again did not understand anything. Let me explain it again, for the last one. The Deep State is not when it is against us. This is when against their own. There is a hunt for a submarine, and the traitors release it. And these traitors have powerful political support within the country, patrons in the Armed Forces, working jointly and systematically in their own goals that are different from society as a whole.

          Well, please think, where does the example of an airplane?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 2 March 2019 17: 30
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            The Deep State is not when it is against us. This is when against their own.

            Well. 8)))))
            Without any discussion with "their own", the Swedish military is practically openly engaged in intelligence in the interests of NATO. Thereby, demonstratively violating neutrality.
            And you start to tell me something about the fact that "the plane has nothing to do with it"?
            Without any discussion with "their own", the Swedish military lie about allegedly launching Soviet missiles in the direction of the Scandinavian countries. Again, "nothing to do with it"?
            1. timokhin-aa
              2 March 2019 17: 42
              You are hopeless, Lopatov.

              They were given the order to conduct reconnaissance and they carried it out. This is a normal occurrence.

              But when there is a group within the state that is able to move the fleet against orders and the state and with impunity, this is a completely different story.

              However, I am sure that you sincerely do not understand the difference and stop talking with you on this.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 2 March 2019 17: 59
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                They were given the order to conduct reconnaissance and they carried it out. This is a normal occurrence.

                But when there is a group within the state that is able to move the fleet against orders and the state and with impunity, this is a completely different story.

                You yourself do not see the contradiction?
                You know such words as "people", "democracy", "constitution" and, most importantly, "neutrality" enshrined in this Constitution ....

                Backfill question: How many years before the incident with the submarine was Flygenhet 66 organized?
                1. timokhin-aa
                  2 March 2019 21: 15
                  Neutral status is one thing, and when the Armed Forces orderly go against the oath on account of a foreign country, it is another.

                  You do not confuse warm soft.

                  However, I will not spend more time on you.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 2 March 2019 21: 46
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Neutral status is one thing, and when the Armed Forces orderly go against the oath on account of a foreign country, it is another.

                    Oh my gosh ....
                    When the Armed Forces organizedly violate the Constitution of their own country, while substituting it under the attack of a nuclear power, what is it called?

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    However, I will not spend more time on you.

                    I interfere with pulling an owl on the globe?
    2. 2329 Carpenter
      2329 Carpenter 3 March 2019 12: 01
      Probably a little earlier. With catching Wallenberg in Budapest.
      Uh-huh, in the besieged city there is swotting with all kinds of weapons, but here the Swedish "blue blood" flies between yours and ours, taking the Jews out almost in echelons. Of course, many logical questions will arise here ...
      To which he had to answer already in Lefortovo.
      I suspect that the comrades in question have learned a lot of interesting things from the life of the "deep state". Only on a more global scale than Sweden.
  4. Cowbra
    Cowbra 2 March 2019 09: 56
    We should learn from our enemies, and maybe inflict some damage on them, maybe figure out how we will reveal all this for ordinary inhabitants of Scandinavia and be able to win back the political damage inflicted on us ...

    The trick is that for this it is necessary to carry out just not mythical, but quite real special operations. For example, well, this is at the very least - monitoring of the near-territorial waters of Sweden. And this is the same as getting into the BBC office with a bundle of documents, a parachute and a budenovka and, waving a flag, yelling - that's right! Watch out!
    The article is good, but the conclusion is not.
    1. timokhin-aa
      2 March 2019 10: 14
      On the one hand, it’s not necessary to follow the Swedes. You can follow those who climb under their periscope. On the other hand, you can try to recruit the Swedes themselves.
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 2 March 2019 11: 00
        Yeah, recruitment. Moreover, a single one does not affect much. At disclosure - again confirmation of the myth so far.
        See: you yourself made the right judgment in the article. Firstly, in the Navy all of Sweden will all be blowing in one tune. The point is not whether there was a provocation, no, someone will say a dissenting opinion, like a recruited one, or a journalist - no sense. The mass will be crushed, but rather, they simply will not pay attention. How about this book.
        You offer to play on their field according to their rules, and prove that you are not a camel. Knowingly losing - with success - they say - so what? This time - yes, but earlier - the Russians were to blame! If the operation fails, it will generally turn out that they themselves have surrendered trumps to the enemy.
        The answer should be asymmetric, not like that. Sun Tzu - be where the enemy is not waiting for you, it seems. Example: they give fairy tales. Unconfirmed. It must be refuted. demand proof - and so on over and over again. Man is not a ram, he catches inconsistencies. And as a result - well, Simonyan had already pinned up in the summer, they were forbidden, they say, in France Sputnik-France is more popular than the BBC, CIENEN, there before the heap, including the French state channel. Comprenes wink
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 2 March 2019 18: 36
          This is not an asymmetric answer: they will simply score on your requirements. Asymmetric - during the time of a skucher, when everyone is looking for a boat, to throw their anti-submarine mines (from an airplane, for example) or offer the services of their PLO forces in search of a boat to Swedish politicians and journalists. Let these boats try to come to an agreement with us to be released alive. You look - they will cease to escalate.
          1. timokhin-aa
            2 March 2019 21: 16
            Offer ten million for real sinking of the intruder's submarine next time. Or for pointing at her.

            In short, here we must think, I only insist that someone began to do it.
  5. svp67
    svp67 2 March 2019 14: 50
    But the commander of the Swedish base, before which our submarine ran aground, offered to quietly tug the tug, remove the submarine and thereby defuse the situation. Our commander and especially ZKCHR were afraid of provocation ..
    1. rayruav
      rayruav 2 March 2019 16: 42
      swp really without loss of each side it was necessary to quietly decide the swedish commander the hype was not needed 100%
    2. timokhin-aa
      2 March 2019 21: 17
      Andersen seems to have been flooded with the Navy for being soft to Russians.
  6. vladcub
    vladcub 2 March 2019 14: 52
    There is nothing new in the sublunary world (Shakespeare), Gorky says almost the same thing in "old woman Izergil".
    If these are the tricks of the amers, they are repeated: "1) when Hermann Goering set fire to the Reichstag to blame the communists. 2) Gleiwitz, so that there was a reason to start WWII staging an attack by the Poles on a local radio station. And if we look deeper into history, we recall the so-called" "Babengton's conspiracy", so that there was a reason to execute Mary Stuart. Actually, she had enough sins, but she did not plan to assassinate Elizabeth. And with "St. Bartholomew's Night", too, not everything is clear. So Molchanov believes "the secrets of diplomacy"
  7. vladcub
    vladcub 2 March 2019 15: 00
    I also remembered: in WWII, Luftwaffe aircraft periodically bombed the coast of Sweden so that Sweden entered the war on the side of Germany. Perhaps there were some other provocations, but I don’t remember now. As the saying goes: "something with my memory"
  8. Decimam
    Decimam 2 March 2019 15: 44
    The Western press, from yellow to professional naval, was noted by detailed articles on how democratic Sweden is looking for someone, it seems, a Russian submarine, and how the whole free world supports it. The fact that the Dutch submarine got into the lens is still not reflected in any major Western media - it’s so easy to ignore evidence when the American empire is behind you.
    Well, Timokhin cannot do without "editing" the facts.

    This is Anna Bern from Uppsala, whose objective was the same "Dutch submarine".
    Photo taken from the site of one of the largest Swedish media groups - Mittmedia. There is an interview with her in which she tells how she took photos of the submarine and posted them on the advice of her friend on Facebook.
    There is also published a version of Major Karl Bergquist that by all indications the boat is Dutch, class Varus.
    Those who wish can see for themselves -
    1. rayruav
      rayruav 2 March 2019 16: 44
      boat class walrus walrus
    2. timokhin-aa
      2 March 2019 17: 13
      And it hasn't gone beyond a few Swedish sites. In English, you can find a few articles with assumptions on the topic that maybe they are still Dutch, and not Russians? Note that I did not write "Swedish" press in this case.
  9. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 2 March 2019 18: 15
    interesting article
  10. The comment was deleted.
    1. timokhin-aa
      3 March 2019 09: 52
      Perhaps because all the water there is muddied by the military. But with the right approach, it can be used against NATO as well. For example, someone or something will sink this submarine during the next "hunt". And all of Sweden will see the fact that NATO members are prowling there, not Russians. Tunander will be immediately remembered here, no doubt.

      It will be possible to bring both Sweden and its relations with NATO to a serious political crisis. Although, of course, technically it is very difficult, I understand, but at least I need to think about this topic.