Guns of the Russian-Turkish War fought near Moscow

64
It would seem that in the grand battle that took place on the outskirts of the capital in the winter of 1941, every detail was investigated, and everything has been known for a long time, however ...

Few people know that at one of the sections of the front, Russian cannons, made at the Imperial gunnery in Perm, still played a decisive role in the 1877 year. And it was at the site of the defense of Solnechnogorsk - Krasnaya Polyana, where the 16-I army under the command of Konstantin Rokossovsky, drained of long battles, fought.



K. K. Rokossovsky turned to G. K. Zhukov with a request for urgent assistance with anti-tank artillery. However, it was no longer with the front commander in reserve. The request reached the Supreme Commander. Stalin’s response was immediate: “I also have no reserves of anti-tank artillery. But there is a Dzerzhinsky Military Artillery Academy in Moscow. There are many experienced gunners there. Let them think and report on a possible solution to the problem within a day.”

Indeed, back in 1938, an artillery academy, founded in 1820, was transferred from Leningrad to Moscow. But in October 1941, she was evacuated to Samarkand. In Moscow, there are only about a hundred officers and employees. Training artillery was also taken to Samarkand. But the order was required to perform.

Helped a happy occasion. An elderly man worked in the academy who knew well the locations of artillery arsenals in Moscow and in the near Moscow region, where worn out and very old artillery systems, shells and equipment for them were mothballed. One can only regret that time did not save the name of this person and the names of all the other members of the academy, who fulfilled the order within 24 hours and formed several high-power anti-tank defense batteries.

Guns of the Russian-Turkish War fought near Moscow


To fight the German averages tanks picked up old siege weapons of 6-inch caliber, which were used even during the liberation of Bulgaria from the Turkish yoke, and later in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905. After its completion, due to the severe deterioration of the gun barrels, these were delivered to the Mytishchi arsenal, where they were stored in a preserved form. Shooting from them was unsafe, but they could still withstand 5-7 shots.

As for the shells, in the Sokolniki artillery depot there were a large number of captured British high-explosive fragmentation shells of the Vickers company in 6 inches and 100 pounds, that is, slightly more than 40 kilograms. There were also primers and powder charges, repulsed in the American Civil War. All this property was kept from 1919 year so carefully that it could well be used for its intended purpose.

Soon, several heavy anti-tank artillery fire batteries were formed. The commanders were students of the academy and officers sent from military registration and enlistment offices, and the servants were the Red Army men and students of 8-10 classes of Moscow special artillery schools. The guns did not have sights, so it was decided to shoot only direct fire, aiming them at the target through the barrel. For the convenience of firing guns dug into the ground on the hub of wooden wheels.

Germanic tanks appeared suddenly. The first artillery shots were fired from the 500-600 distance. The German tankers initially took the explosive shells for the action of anti-tank mines. Apparently, the "mines" had a very large force. In the event of a rupture of an 40-kilogram projectile near the tank, the latter turned over on its side or became pop. But it soon became clear that they were beating out of the cannons. A projectile hit the turret and threw it to tens of meters to the side. And if the 6-inch projectile siege guns hit the front of the hull, then he passed the tank through, destroying everything in its path.

German tankers were horrified - they didn’t expect anything like that. Having lost the company, the tank battalion retreated. The German command considered the incident an accident and sent another battalion in a different way, where it also ran into an anti-tank ambush. The Germans decided that the Russians use some kind of new anti-tank weapon unprecedented power. The offensive of the enemy was suspended, probably, to clarify the situation.

In the end, Rokossovsky's army won several days on this front, during which replenishment arrived, and the front stabilized. 5 December 1941, our troops went on the offensive and drove the Nazis to the West. It turns out that the victory of 45 year, at least to a small extent, but forged by Russian gunsmiths in the XIX century.
64 comments
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  1. +28
    15 December 2012 09: 57
    There is no weapon morally obsolete ... there is no ability to use it. To study ... to learn and to learn again from the descendants ... although the bureaucrat’s head tree only grows stronger over the years. We hope for the best, only that remains.
  2. donchepano
    +35
    15 December 2012 10: 15
    Here you have half a century and more guns and shells. They were carefully stored and thanks they were preserved and useful
    We are destroying modern weapons and screaming that this is for security purposes.
    God forbid, the NATO trash will attack, but we chopped (Tu 160) cut (armored vehicles), etc. submarines, missiles, ammunition.
    Are the enemies sitting upstairs in control?
    1. +18
      15 December 2012 14: 24
      During my service in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Belarus I was in warehouses, guys of which I just didn’t see there, and German 40 (so-called Schmeissers) and real Schmeissers, and our machine guns and machine guns of the war years, and that everything is interesting in lubrication and even now the battle. Impressed very much. These warehouses are still standing, seen on Google from space. So, if there are automatic machines in Belarus.
      1. Dikremnij
        +15
        15 December 2012 15: 41
        And in Ukraine in 2011, I met BM-13, the legendary Katyusha, at the warehouse, so if anything, we will share the MLRS smile
        1. +9
          15 December 2012 22: 23
          Dikremnij,
          Liasenski,

          So there’s something to guerrilla with,
          1. +7
            15 December 2012 22: 51
            Quote: Dikremnij
            And in Ukraine in 2011, I met BM-13, the legendary Katyusha, at the warehouse, so if anything, we will share the MLRS
            Alas, the ammunition for them has long been bye bye, hundreds of tons are destroyed, I see regularly with my own eyes. Very sorry, insulting. and it’s not clear. It looks like a conscious wrecking and sabotage.
            1. Felix200970
              0
              16 December 2012 21: 02
              Quote: revnagan
              Alas, the ammunition for them has long been bye bye, hundreds of tons are destroyed, I see regularly with my own eyes. Very sorry, insulting. and it’s not clear. It looks like a conscious wrecking and sabotage.

              What sabotage are you talking about? Storage periods have long expired, even for missiles for "Tornado"
      2. +9
        15 December 2012 22: 26
        And I in 83, being in a training company on the territory of the MPR (Mongolia), along with other cadets of the company, was sent to the arsenal near Darkhan, where we cleaned and re-mothballed weapons, so there was nothing from the three-rulers, PPSh, DP and etc. etc. We were very interested in holding and cleaning weapons that we had only seen in movies and pictures before. They just didn’t give a shot, it’s a pity.
        1. 0
          13 May 2020 12: 00
          Sambainu, Campan!
      3. Hauptmannzimermann
        +3
        16 December 2012 01: 37
        Warehouses are worth it, but a lot has already gone into re-melting. WITH RESPECT.
    2. +5
      16 December 2012 01: 17
      And who else? Security - yes, American and other NATO.
      ... And the old 47th Kalash can still do a good job!
  3. Splin
    +13
    15 December 2012 10: 38
    NATO will not attack. They cannot do without the conditions of civilization, in the form of the benefits of hot water, toilet paper, etc. And it will be, because no matter how weak Russia is, it can give an answer. Look for a threat from China.
    1. vic011
      +13
      15 December 2012 11: 59
      The Chinese already consider Siberia their territory occupied by the Russians. But the Russian people cannot be defeated; this has already been confirmed by time.
      "Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword!"
  4. Brother Sarych
    +5
    15 December 2012 10: 42
    The story is beautiful, but unlikely! In any case, in such an option, as described, most likely it was a bit wrong ...
    Shooting a barrel from such a gun is very problematic - it’s painfully dimensional, the enemy will notice it earlier before being able to aim with the help of existing aiming devices ...
    If you dig in the wheels, it will be impossible to bring it at all ...
    The old cannons would not have skidders, so they could not be buried, and for this reason - when they fired, they would rip out the wheels ...
    The shells of the First World War were quite modern, especially of such a caliber - their power would be enough to guarantee the destruction of any tank of that time ...
    1. Splin
      +7
      15 December 2012 11: 51
      Quote: Brother Sarich
      The story is beautiful, but unlikely!

      Such guns really defended Moscow. But they were not there in the Russo-Turkish war, but with the civil! Back in the 16th, they began to be brought to the factory from the fields of the First World War, and they survived because the Red Army in those years used little atryillery and 3-inch was enough for them.
      1. Dikremnij
        0
        15 December 2012 15: 49
        1 in war all methods are good
        2 "Cannons fought near Moscow during the Russian-Turkish War" and infantry units with the banners of the RIA units during the Patriotic War of 1812.
    2. Misantrop
      +10
      15 December 2012 12: 01
      It is clear that they were not "buried" in the literal sense. Obviously something like a trench, where the guns were rolled to reduce their silhouette and the possibility of a direct shot. And targeting along the barrel is also quite possible, the speed of the tank over rough terrain at that time was not very high. Again, due to the unusual silhouette and lack of a gun shield, these batteries were not only completely invisible, but were not associated with weapons. In the turmoil of battle, there is no time for detailed scrutiny
      1. Brother Sarych
        +4
        15 December 2012 12: 21
        From the text of the article:
        For the convenience of firing guns dug into the ground on the hub of wooden wheels.
        I’m sure that such cannons were actually fired, but not at all as described - imagine aiming a siege gun using the rules on a moving target, and then think about whether such an operation would attract the attention of the enemy ...
        1. +5
          15 December 2012 17: 39
          Dear colleague, Brother Sarych is right, in 1941, guns fired from the arsenals were fired in the Russian Empire or received from allies in the Entente. Near Moscow there were many polygons, where various arsenals were mainly located. In the area of ​​Kubinka was a tank training ground. So from it even old or experimental (experimental) tanks without engines were towed to the front line, where they buried them in the ground and used them as firing points.
          And after the 1MV shells for the three-inch (approached ZiS-3) there were so many in the arsenals that they were used even some time after the Second World War.
        2. +1
          15 December 2012 20: 12
          Brother Sarych

          Quote: Brother Sarich
          I am sure that such guns were actually fired, but not at all as described

          feel mdya, I misunderstood you, I agree that the text is written incorrectly.
    3. +1
      15 December 2012 20: 10
      Brother Sarych

      Quote: Brother Sarich
      The story is beautiful, but unlikely!


      in childhood I read about the use, during the defense of Moscow in 41, of guns from the time of Napoleon.



      Quote: Brother Sarich
      From such a gun to shoot on the barrel is very problematic


      yeah, under Borodino and during the Russian-Japanese shot on the barrel laughing .


      Quote: Brother Sarich
      it’s painfully dimensional, the enemy will notice it sooner before it can be guided with the help of existing aiming devices ...
      If you dig in the wheels, it will be impossible to bring it at all ...
      Old cannons would not have skidders, so they could not be buried, and for this reason


      when it was necessary --- tanks every day the crews buried themselves;
      to dig out the artillery position, which rolls back when fired is not super difficult.
      1. Brother Sarych
        +1
        15 December 2012 20: 16
        In fact, under Borodino, they didn’t shoot at the barrel at all - be surprised, but there were simple sights, especially not at the barrel, they shot at the Russian-Japanese ...
        We are talking about a large-caliber siege gun, which never needed to be fired quickly, you can specify how long it took to load it, not to mention a very laborious aiming ...
        1. 0
          15 December 2012 22: 31
          Brother Sarych

          Quote: Brother Sarich
          be surprised, but there were simple sights, all the more so they didn’t shoot at the Russian-Japanese ...


          I know.


          Quote: Brother Sarich
          We are talking about a large-caliber siege gun, which never needed to be fired quickly, you can specify how long it took to load it, not to mention a very laborious aiming ..


          so I already admitted that I misunderstood you. feel
          1. Brother Sarych
            0
            16 December 2012 09: 15
            I did not see your answer when I wrote - the page has not yet been updated with me ...
    4. DmitriRazumov
      +2
      15 December 2012 21: 26
      I agree, most likely the experienced artillery men from the academy thrashed, as in the era of the Napoleonic wars, and the power of shell explosions acted also psychologically. Moreover, the PzKw 3 is a very inferior tank. Thin armor, short cannon.
    5. +1
      15 December 2012 23: 00
      Quote: Brother Sarich
      The story is beautiful, but unlikely! In any case, in such an option, as described, most likely it was a bit wrong ...

      Do you remember that Sobolev has a story "A Cannon Without a Fly"? True, a children's book, a fiction book, and the art of VD-Crimea, but still there is no smoke without fire. Yes, and the gun was 3. "
    6. 0
      17 December 2012 12: 17
      Brother Sarych,
      Firstly, they didn’t keep suckers in the ArtAcademy, they buried such guns in a trench with a reverse slope, when fired, the gun rolls the gun back and it rolls back to the position, so it doesn’t pull out any wheels!
      The second follows from the first.
      6lbs - 96mm caliber, it's a big shot !!
  5. +17
    15 December 2012 11: 18
    Don’t give any weapons to cowards and alarmists, they will still lose, and the heroes of 41 years were beaten by people with steel hearts and they LOVED their homeland!
    1. Dikremnij
      +5
      15 December 2012 15: 44
      AND STEEL EGGS laughing
      PS Glory to the victorious heroes!
  6. +3
    15 December 2012 11: 48
    To the author +, a very interesting informative article ...
  7. +8
    15 December 2012 12: 09
    There was such a fact in history, thanks to the author of the article. hi
  8. +5
    15 December 2012 12: 18
    Soon, several heavy anti-tank artillery fire batteries were formed. The commanders were students of the academy and officers sent from military registration and enlistment offices, and the servants were the Red Army men and students of 8-10 classes of Moscow special artillery schools. The guns did not have sights, so it was decided to shoot only direct fire, aiming them at the target through the barrel. For the convenience of firing guns dug into the ground on the hub of wooden wheels.


    ... my own uncle (mother’s brother), told how they fired World War I shells from arsenals in August 41. He fought in artillery intelligence ...
  9. Dimani
    +2
    15 December 2012 12: 22
    There was such a case. There is even a short story called "A Cannon Without a Fly". Only this was near Sevastopol.
    1. +2
      16 December 2012 00: 32
      Dima!
      In L. Sobolev's story "Cannons without a Fly", there are three-inch guns Model 1902.
      1. Dimani
        0
        16 December 2012 15: 25
        Well, yes, they are the most, I mean the very fact of using obsolete tools ..
  10. +4
    15 December 2012 12: 33
    Here is an example to destroyers of "old" weapons!
  11. +11
    15 December 2012 14: 03
    The horizontal aiming was probably done with the help of a "crowbar and mother". They aimed with damage and waited for the tank to reach the line of destruction. Iron nerves and high professionalism were needed. Glory to their memory!
  12. Skavron
    -2
    15 December 2012 15: 34
    For the first time I hear a similar story ... somehow unlikely
  13. morning
    +1
    15 December 2012 16: 28
    As a child, I read about the defense of Sevastopol, where there was an episode with an old gun without a sight, aiming through the barrel, and shells of the wrong caliber (smaller). And nothing fell!
  14. -2
    15 December 2012 17: 15
    Something is hard to believe in it .... on tanks, aiming through the barrel .... Germans thought that the mines ..... did not see these whoppers ????
    Heroic story of course, but looks like an article from the Pioneer truth.
    1. 0
      16 December 2012 18: 31
      At close range, when the projectile goes in a straight line, it is fully possible if the tank does not maneuver, but goes directly to the cannon. While hunting, he often aimed at the trunk, if the duck was sitting a few meters away from me.
  15. 0
    15 December 2012 17: 30
    article is interesting, but looks like a fake ...
    1. Misantrop
      +10
      15 December 2012 18: 07
      And the fact that the 35th battery in Sevastopol was equipped with naval guns of about the same age does not raise any questions for anyone. Oddly enough ... And the fact that the kinematics and drives of one of the towers of the battleship "Empress Maria" were used as the basis for the construction of a radio telescope in Shkolnoye near Simferopol (it was from there that both Lunokhod were controlled) is also normal? By the way, this unit has not yet been disassembled and (it seems) is still in service. And the fact that the Black Sea Fleet still the rescue ship "Kommuna", launched in 1913, enters, how do you like it? Moreover, his condition seems to be no better than that of some of the much more modern ... wink
      1. 0
        15 December 2012 23: 18
        Shooting in the area is one. And on moving tanks - I think it’s quite different. No?
        1. 0
          17 December 2012 17: 35
          Black,
          Well, at a distance of several hundred meters, the tank travels at a low angular speed and guessing the lead on a shot is not a problem for an experienced officer, even if aiming at the barrel.
          Especially on the ground, the speed of most tanks is low.
  16. proba8623
    +9
    15 December 2012 19: 33
    The article describes that several ambushes were organized, that is, one way or another, before the battle, the sectors of fire were determined, guns were shot, and the range of effective fire was carried out. With competent officers and savvy everything is possible
  17. flukked
    -4
    15 December 2012 19: 41
    And where does the information come from? You can source. It is strange that such an event did not light up earlier and was not covered, although the case is very interesting and unique. It hurts like a duck.
    1. 0
      15 December 2012 20: 14
      flukked

      hammer in the name of the article in the search, pour out a dozen links, the source can no longer be found.
  18. Brother Sarych
    0
    15 December 2012 20: 27
    On reflection, the only explanation for this is the simple confusion and low qualification of the writers! Doubters can be sent to Shirokorad for details ...
    Of course, none of these museum guns fired - they fired from newer guns, albeit of more than venerable age! The gun of the 1877 model could be released much later, it just had a wedge bolt.

    6-inch siege and fortress guns weighing 200 pounds sample 1877

    Author: A. Shirokorad

    The design of the 6-inch gun at 200 pounds was started due to the fact that the barrel design of the 6-inch gun at 190 pounds did not allow to increase the initial velocity of the projectile when switching to smokeless gunpowder.

    At the end of 1895, the Obukhov plant was given an order for a 6-inch long cannon (the original name for the 6-inch gun was 200 pounds). In 1897, an order was issued to the St. Petersburg arsenal to remake one carriage of the model of 1878 for a 6-inch long, 200 pood gun.

    By early 1900, a 6-inch long cannon was already firing at the Main Artillery Range.

    On December 19-12.1904, 190, by order of artillery No. 6, a 200-inch gun of 3.11.1904 pounds was introduced into the siege and fortress artillery with its gun mount according to the Highest Order of November XNUMX, XNUMX.

    The gun had a bonded barrel. In the breech, the inner coarse was fastened with three wide runners, and in the front part it was blown up to the pins by a cylinder worn with tension. A cover is fitted over the rings and the back of the coupling. A trunnion ring is attached to the front of the casing. In the back of the casing, which extends beyond the breech section of the pipe, the breech is screwed with a locking ring.

    Three-stroke piston lock. The rate of fire allowed by the design. 1 rds / min, but the RS of 1926, in order to save materiel, recommended a rate of 1 rds. in 4 minutes

    Thus, the 6-inch gun of 200 pounds in the domestic artillery was the last siege weapon that had trunnions.

    Interested in Google to help ...
  19. +6
    15 December 2012 20: 33
    I heard about this story, and I can only add that if you wish, you can kill enemies from the "slingshot". GLORY AND HONOR to those who defended our Motherland. soldier
    Well, those who do not believe you do not know much. laughing
  20. -2
    16 December 2012 00: 36
    An elderly man worked at the academy, who knew well the locations of artillery arsenals in Moscow and in the immediate vicinity of Moscow, where worn-out and very old artillery systems, shells and equipment were mothballed.
    It is very strange that only one person knew the location of the arsenals. And it’s strange that they found it. Very similar to the stories about the war of the writer Alekseev. As a child he read.

    The story from the series about PO 2 which was hiding behind the ME 109 from the shed, shot down by the collective farmer ME 109 - scythe, KV 1 wound up with two stupid armor and then dragged to prisoners of his own and so on.
  21. scrack
    +1
    16 December 2012 10: 23
    At one time I read a story in a newspaper about how a boy in Moscow in 41 shot down a Messer with a slingshot. Like he bolted into the propeller of the plane, the engine jammed and the plane crashed
  22. 0
    16 December 2012 13: 59
    I have heard this story on radio "Zvezda" many times under the heading about special forces ...
  23. 0
    16 December 2012 14: 09
    Russian weapons always prevailed over the enemy.
  24. +3
    16 December 2012 14: 50
    don’t know about the guns of the first world
    but I wouldn’t refuse a three-ruler (preferably with cartridges)
    let him lie at home doesn’t ask for a drink
    Yes, and from the T-34 or T-55 decommissioned, too, I will not refuse
    let the garden stand (it’s better than re-melting)
    1. +2
      16 December 2012 18: 35
      And what are the problems on the three line. Carabiners in hunting stores are sold, take and hold, but a machine tool will be more difficult, you will not pass those inspection. wassat
  25. 0
    16 December 2012 18: 36
    Nevertheless, it is commendable that our ancestors made such weapons.
  26. AlexMH
    0
    16 December 2012 20: 23
    I have no doubt in the military’s ability to store anything in warehouses, they still have guns with budennyki there, but I don’t believe the article. How can one get into a moving tank from a gun dug into the ground without the possibility of horizontal aiming at all, without a normal sight, and even with a projectile with a low initial speed? Well, if the tank goes down the street strictly to the gun, then let's say. One tank. But the company? Either the Germans in the company had one and a half tanks at this point, or someone lied a lot.
  27. +2
    16 December 2012 20: 33
    Maybe they did something, but nonetheless ..
    Judging by the description, they fired ordinary high-explosive shells. The 6 inch projectile has a radius of active destruction of 200-300 meters of fragments, so that an explosion near a light tank will really cause a lot of problems for those inside the tin,
    As for aiming, I heard many times that during the war, when the sights were damaged, they really aimed at the barrel and hit!
    As for the mothballed weapons and ammunition - personally, in the late 70s, I shot a couple of boxes marked "1939"
    (the boxes themselves were already half rotten). They fired with an 10 meter cord (a little ..), but everything ended well and the shells lay somewhere near the target. How pre-war ammunition survived, I can’t imagine ...
  28. Serge
    +1
    16 December 2012 20: 46
    happy with the glory of Russian weapons
  29. +1
    17 December 2012 01: 02
    Surprisingly, all users who asked a quite pertinent question in this case: "And where does the infa come from? Or is it hard to believe in a word?" - minus with enviable constancy.
    Does everyone really care about the accuracy of the information? If only it was about war, victory, and the red army?
  30. kov
    kov
    0
    17 December 2012 22: 32
    Actually the battle chronicle

  31. AlexMH
    0
    17 December 2012 23: 32
    Read the article again, look at this fool and tell me, HOW can you direct it, even through the barrel, if, as it says, it is dug into the ground along the axis "for ease of shooting"? And by the way, the idea of ​​fragments of a six-inch projectile hitting even light tanks at a distance of 300 m is not viable. Maximum 50 meters. By the way, tests in 1942 of the Su-122 showed that firing from a howitzer with a low initial projectile velocity, even at relatively short distances, is ineffective, tk. hit percentage is close to 0 if the target is moving.
  32. Centaurus
    0
    22 December 2012 02: 16
    Here! ..
    And if we were still old-fashioned, they would be bombarded with arrows in the trenches, generally they would be on all fours, with arrows, rushed to the f * ck! wassat

    But seriously, I’m not surprised at all. Our people have always been able to surprise the enemy. Moreover, as a rule, the decision of the Russians shocked the enemy. tongue
  33. 0
    13 December 2016 07: 44
    "time has not preserved the name of this man."
    According to other sources (for example, "Searchers. The secret weapon of Rokossovsky's army"), this name is even mentioned: Major General David Estafovich Kozlovsky


    (~ 17: 40 in time)
    1. aww
      0
      25 January 2018 13: 48
      About old guns is not a legend. They only stood in the area between Dmitrovskoye and Altufevskoye highways in groups approximately along the outer side of the MKAD. There were several dozen of these old cannons. The shells were stacks large. I was born and lived in these places. Grandfather lived in a house several artillerymen. Father (born in 1924) saw everything and told that the guns were put in the late autumn of 1941 and almost constantly beat towards Lobny and Krasnaya Polyana. Then, after the offensive, the guns were taken away, and the stacks of shells lay until the summer of 1942. Until the 70s, pits from dugouts were still visible. There was also an anti-aircraft part, but from the pre-war times. There were a lot of dug outs from it, and the arable land came across parts from xen. shells with wheels settings.
  34. 0
    24 September 2019 20: 36
    Yeah .... I wrote it, so I wrote it. The author thinks that everyone here is stupid?
    "The guns did not have sights, so it was decided to fire only direct fire, aiming them at the target through the barrel."
    Now imagine a picture of a Red Army man climbing up on a carriage and standing, through an open breech of a gun through a barrel, aiming at a moving tank, and students of the 8-10 classes of Moscow special artillery schools hand-turning this colossus, trying to catch it point the gun ahead. And at the same time, you still have to have time to charge the gun with a shell with separate loading.
    1. 0
      23 March 2021 13: 11
      Quote: Azzzwer
      manually turn this colossus, trying to have time to aim the weapon with anticipation

      And this is with the wheels dug in, a five-ton cannon lying on the ground!