Military Review

Who actually won the world space race?

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Roald Sagdeev - about how Niels Bohr did not fit into Leninism, why Landau did not honor Lomonosov, about innovations behind barbed wire, Chinese trousers, Academician Kurchatov, about his relationship to Dwight Eisenhower, and about who actually won the world space race.

We met with Academician Sagdeev on the campus of the University of Maryland in College Park, near Greater Washington. Roald Zinnurovich has been teaching here for many years, Professor Emeritus, Director of the East-West Center for Space Sciences. Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, member of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA and the Royal Academy of Sciences of Sweden. He still has many titles and regalia, as befits a venerable scientist of the highest world status. But in communication, Mr. Sagdeev is democratic, as I saw for ten years of acquaintance. And how briskly runs on a huge campus in their grave 77 years - by golly, can not keep up. “How do you keep fit, Roald Zinnurovich? - I asked, somewhat out of breath, when he met me at the parking lot and led me to the building. “I always loved the active lifestyle. In the morning jogging. Only when for a long time I leave somewhere, knocks out of a rut. It takes a long time to recover. ”



- Let's look at the very beginning of your career. You graduated from the Physics Department of Moscow State University. Who are the future luminaries of science, as the Americans put it, rubbed their elbows?

- We lived in a hostel on Stromynka, where it was necessary to take a tram from the Sokolniki metro station. A peculiar place. In one room for ten people. One of my closest friends at the university was my classmate Alexander Alekseevich Vedenov, in the future a remarkable theoretical physicist, corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Sciences. By the way, a whole number of members of the Academy of Sciences graduated from our course graduates. Two courses younger studied Evgeny Pavlovich Velikhov. Together with him - Boris Tverskoy and Georgy Golitsyn, who also became major scientists, with whom I had long-term friendly relations. However, it is not necessary to have loud titles, there were and there are wonderful scientists without titles.

The beginning of 50-x - difficult years for Soviet physics. She was on the verge of the same interference of party and government circles as biology.

- Is it possible that Lysenko was found in physics?

- If there was a need to find a candidate for the role of Lysenko, there would be no problems. The center of anti-scientific views was located at our faculty. The largest physicists were removed from teaching at Moscow State University - Landau, Tamm, Artsimovich, Leontovich. A pleiad of careerists who sought to politicize physics accused Landau and his colleagues of ignoring Marxist-Leninist philosophy. It turns out that quantum physics and the theory of relativity are incorrectly philosophically interpreted by their founders, Bohr and Einstein. The witch hunt lasted for some time, physics would have to wait for the fate of biological science, destroyed by Lysenko and his ilk. Fortunately, this did not happen. Stalin needed an atomic bomb. Kurchatov and Khariton managed to defend the purity of science. Nuclear development weapons actually saved physics from ideological pogrom. Stalin and Beria obeyed the instinct of self-preservation. Pragmatism won.

- How did all this whistle dance affect you, then students?

- I entered the Moscow State University in 50 year, in March, Stalin dies on 53, and we start the fourth year in the new building in the Lenin Hills in the fourth year. We were well aware of the schism in the circles of scientists, that the leadership of the Physics Department was lagging toward the ideologization of science. Yes, there were wonderful teachers, but the party brakes set the tone. And now the annual Komsomol conference of the faculty has gathered. The question is posed: why are physics being taught to us incorrectly? Why among professors there is no Landau, Tamm, Leontovich? The dean Sokolov, who was sitting on the presidium, answers the last question: because Landau does not refer to Lomonosov in his writings. Homeric laughter gathered. Emotional heat reaches its peak. The assembly adopts a resolution demanding to put the teaching on a modern level.

Of course, repression began against activists-troublemakers. They were conducted by local forces. I, a Komsomol member, was also called to the party committee. In fact, they interrogated: “Have you met Landau?”, “Did he incite you?” But the fact is that shortly before these events, I was introduced to Landau, and he explained how to enter him in graduate school, pass his famous "minimum." But then something happened. Above ordered to change the situation at the Department of Physics. It is known that the top party leadership handed over materials about the distemper to Igor Vasilyevich Kurchatov in order to learn his opinion, and he supported the theses of our student revolution. So, at the end of 53, the beginning of 54, the first, albeit tiny, but very important victory of common sense over ideological devilry was won. We were sent a new dean Fursov, recommended by Kurchatov, began to lecture Leontovich and Landau. The atmosphere has changed completely.

- It is known that the most gifted students were recruited to work in secret laboratories and "mailboxes." How did this happen?

- A number of specialties at the faculty wore a neck of secrecy. For example, some sections of radio physics and radio electronics. And the “Structure of the Substance”, where I went, - here it was a question of nuclear matters. The selection was on the personal data. There were no enemies among the closest relatives. My father, Zinnur Sagdeyev, worked at the Council of Ministers of Tataria then. So I found myself in a regime group. It suited me - the level of scholarships depended on the degree of mode. I was given a scholarship, first named after Morozov ...

- Not Pavlik?

- Not. The name of the famous People's Fellow Nikolai Morozov, who spent 20 years in Shlisselburg fortress. I passed exams well, almost on one of the five. In the last year gave Stalin scholarship. A huge amount - almost 700 rubles.

- What did you spend them on? Did they go to restaurants?

- No, in theaters. From my youth I am not indifferent to music. Sometimes he even spent the night in line at the ticket office of the Bolshoi Theater. Revised the entire opera repertoire. Then Lemeshev and Kozlovsky still sang. And we had a concert hall in Stromynka, there were opera and pop celebrities.

- Youth, blood boils. Or was there no time for the best student to have novels?

- Of course, there were hobbies ... But I, a provincial, came to Moscow from Kazan and felt a certain embarrassment. In general, love was postponed until later. The main thing is learning. At the beginning of the fifth year on assignment, I and a few guys from our course were sent to prepare theses in the closed city of Arzamas-16 - now they have returned the old name Sarov. This place, with a town, forests and lakes, was surrounded by several rows of barbed wire and figured for the uninitiated under the innocent name "Volga office". My plans were crumbling: after all, I had already passed several exams of the “Landau minimum”, which should have given me the right to go to the graduate school of the Institute for Physical Problems, where he worked. But according to the order I got into the most secret “box” where I first saw Khariton, Sakharov, Zeldovich. Arzamas-16 was the brain center of the Soviet atomic bomb program. I was lucky: as I wanted, I got into a group of theorists. An outstanding physicist David Albertovich Frank-Kamenetsky became my leader. A truly creative atmosphere reigned in his department ...

- ... behind barbed wire.

- A real scientist in any situation will not miss the opportunity to do serious science. The topic proposed to me had nothing to do with bombs. Properties of the substance at high temperature in astrophysical conditions. For example, in the central zone of our sun. Still, the notebooks with the formulas should have been taken in the evening and taken again in the morning. The behavior of the substance at high temperatures is similar to what happens during a thermonuclear explosion. So the theory turned out to be connected with practice.

... When the first Soviet nuclear bomb was blown up in 49 in Kazakhstan, I was overwhelmed with admiration and fear at the same time. By the time I arrived in Sarov, the mystic had disappeared, and I firmly realized that I did not want to engage in a bomb. He defended his diploma under the guidance of Frank Kamenetsky. He knew that I wanted to study in graduate school with Landau, and he supported me in every possible way. Lev Davidovich wrote an application for me. At the same time, the high leadership decided to build another nuclear "box" in the Chelyabinsk region. Now this town is called Snezhinsk. The resolution of the Council of Ministers signed, it seems, Kosygin, according to which our entire group of graduates, theoreticians in the closed specialty “Structure of matter”, was decided to be sent entirely to Snezhinsk. I was upset, told Landau everything. He promised to investigate, but for now he advised not to sign the order of distribution. All my classmates dispersed, and I was left alone in the hostel and waited for the conflict to end. Landau turned to Igor Kurchatov, he said that he could not cancel the decree, but he could take me to his institute - he now bears his name. The disappointment that I didn’t get to Landau was somewhat brightened up by the fact that I was in the sector with my former diploma supervisor Frank-Kamenetsky, whom Kurchatov had invited from Sarov. You know, even in those days there were oases with a real creative atmosphere and a careful attitude to colleagues and students in the scientific community.

- How did Kurchatov treat you?

- Apparently, he noticed me at the seminars. After two or three years, he began to invite me to himself, he consulted. Called his assistant. And I rushed to Igor Vasilyevich, ran to his cottage along a diagonal park path. Once I run, I look, he walks near the cottage. “Comrade Sagdeev,” he says suddenly, “you have the same trousers as mine.” These were blue Chinese trousers brand "Friendship", the Soviet version of the current jeans. And in everyday work, almost all the time I spent with Evgeny Velikhov and Alexander Vedenov. I am still proud of what we managed to do ... In 61, I left Moscow. I had good relations with academician Andrei Mikhailovich Budker, who offered to move to Akademgorodok.

- Romance fascinated ...

- And romance, and the promised freedom of scientific studies. Academgorodok is a real kingdom of youth. Next - Novosibirsk University. In the Union, and even now in Russia, for some reason, there is a watershed between universities and academic institutions. Academgorodok was a rare example of free exchange between the fields of science and higher education. Only now they are proposing to introduce a system of research universities, as in America. This idea was then implemented precisely in the Siberian Branch of the Academy of Sciences.

By the way, engineer Igor Poletaev, who invented the division into physicists and lyricists, lived in Akademgorodok. Contrary to idle opinion, we physicists loved lyricists. All the bards came to us, from Galich and Okudzhava to Kim, actors, writers. Major international conferences were held.

- Does Academgorodok look like on the campus of the University of Maryland?

- It looks like. The same low-rise buildings. I moved there with my wife and son, a daughter was born there. My first wife is a humanist. Life was arranged beautifully. In Moscow, the three of us huddled in a communal apartment, which was obtained only through the intervention of Kurchatov, before that I lived in a hostel. And in Akademgorodok they gave me an apartment, and then I moved to the cottage. In fact, the western standard. Amazing nature, pine forest, reservoir. Motorboat for fishing, skiing in winter. Chic special distribution. Akademgorodok better supplied than Novosibirsk. They fed scientists ... I lived there for ten years. I remember organized an English club, I was its president. Once a week, they gathered in the House of Scientists. Rule: speak only English. In the famous cafe "Under the integral" arranged disputes. Once, the district committee forbade us to celebrate Christmas with an English apple pie. I had to call the secretary of the district committee Yanovsky - he later worked in the science sector of the Central Committee - and, oddly enough, I persuaded him to remove the ban, saying that we do not plan anything religious, a purely cultural action. But then it got worse and worse. The authorities decided that the most notorious Fronda flourished in Academgorodok, and especially after the Prague events they began to tighten the screws. And from the “Under the Integral” discussion club, only memories remained (its founder and president, my old friend Anatoly Burstein, many years later wrote an essay about that time called “Communism is our bright past”). But what saved from depression - an exciting job. I was in charge of the plasma theory laboratory. Small team, 10 — 15 people. No administration. We studied the properties of plasma as a nonlinear medium. Carried away by the theory of chaos.

- Excuse me, but what is it?

- Processes in nature and technology that cannot be accurately described when only a probabilistic approach is possible, well, like a weather forecast. You can narrow the range of predictions, to find the laws, according to which events are supposed to develop. The science of chaos is constantly expanding the scope. It is rather a methodological approach to describing complex systems in the absence of a precisely defined development scenario.

- Another absolutely amateurish question: does the plasma TV have anything to do with the plasma you studied?

- It has, but very distant. It’s like a mundane plasma. But you touched on an important topic - fundamental sciences and their practical applications. To set a task before science, so that it certainly produces such useful applications for people, is completely unproductive. The progress of pure science in itself creates a fertile ground on which, I repeat, applications can sprout. When the great Maxwell wrote his famous equations in the 60-s of the XIX century, everyone believed that this was some kind of abstraction. And now Maxwell's equations are the basis of electronic devices. We open access to the Universe to humanity thanks to its electromagnetic theory. But narrow-minded people demand immediate benefits from science: take it out and put it on. Last year, President Obama came to the annual meeting of the United States Academy of Sciences and spoke about the importance of basic science. He recalled the genius Einstein, his theory of relativity, that this theory gave impetus to the theory of the Big Bang and the expanding Universe. And today, Obama stressed, without Einstein’s theory, it would have been impossible to make a navigator used by millions of motorists. Americans understand this dialectic well, so they do not spare funds for basic science. Alas, in Russia, these amounts are still orders of magnitude smaller than in the United States.

- After all, you and the Hero of Socialist Labor received, and the Lenin Prize?

“They gave me a hero as part of a large group of scientists and researchers for the Vega project, that is, for preparing the descent module for the flight to Venus and dropping a balloon into its orbit, and for researching Comet Halley. "Vega" is the first two syllables of the words "Venus" and "Galley." A Lenin Prize received for research on plasma physics.

- When I lived in Moscow, I often drove past a long parallelepiped near the metro station Profsoyuznaya. Years later, I learned that the Space Research Institute was located there, which you headed for fifteen years.

- Curious like you said: look, here is a factory of children's toys. She was located next to us. So, they make toys for children there, here are toys for adults. In the USSR, the space program was in full swing, there was a launch after the launch of spacecraft with cosmonauts on board. At the same time, it was necessary to study the cosmos itself, these infinite spaces filled with very rarefied plasma, the Moon, stars, planets, small bodies, giant flashes in the depths of the Universe. This has become our main task. The institute had no direct relation to military technology. This involved a huge number of rocket design bureau, "mailboxes". At ICI, we were supposed to conduct research and experiments during space exploration. Everything went with difficulty, there were a lot of bureaucratic delays. To begin with, that the industry was controlled by the defense industry, everything was regulated by the government military-industrial commission. We were not a priority organization, we were patiently standing in line, waiting for the ordered instruments and equipment. Over time, we learned how to make them ourselves, attracted foreign research teams from the countries of the socialist camp. Our interests were in the open field. We did not hide anything from foreign colleagues. Suppose a scientist made a discovery. It is in his interests, in the interests of his department and institute to notify the academic world more quickly, because this efficiency helped to approve the priority. What we depended on on the West was in computer technology. At that time it was such a giant cupboards. Who had the currency, could buy them. We came to the Ministry of Foreign Trade, there was a special unit that was engaged in obtaining for Western customers of Western technologies and equipment, including those prohibited for export to the Soviet Union. I don’t know how they achieved this, but we got the computers we needed. When a scandal broke out in the West and caught the companies that were engaged in supply, we had to open the IKI doors for foreign colleagues and show that we use computers in the interests of pure science.

- How productive was the space race with America?

- It can be divided into three stages. The first is who will be the first to put a satellite into orbit? We won. Second - who will launch the first person into space? Again we won. But here is the third one - who will be the first to land on the moon? - Americans won. It affected their general economic advantage, because landing on the moon is a complex task, requiring a huge concentration of technological resources, engineering, a powerful test base. We did the entire bet on the launch of space rockets, which in essence were modified versions of the original intercontinental ballistic missile P-7. The lunar rover was not taken seriously, for the Politburo it was only an advanced toy. However, the hope of indulging with the Americans did not leave us for some time, however, a number of troubles happened, and most importantly, in the midst of the race, Korolev died. Conflict proposals from prominent members of the rocket and space elite immediately arose. As a result, we lost the moon race and left the competition with America from this site. Began to look for a niche where you can raise the Soviet flag, and found. Orbital stations have become such a niche, and we have succeeded greatly in this area. But the real science is hardly helped. A kind of win in the consolation race. True, some designers believed that it was necessary to return to the lunar project and try to circumvent the Americans. Valentin Petrovich Glushko, an outstanding designer of rocket engines, dreamed of a permanent manned station on the moon. I opposed this extremely expensive program. The Americans at one time switched to shuttles. Today it is obvious what a big mistake they made. Despite the beauty of the concept of crossing the plane and the rocket, the practical price of putting a unit of weight into space turned out to be higher for shuttles than for disposable missiles. For an airplane flight stage, you need to carry fuel all the way. Yes, and the risks were prohibitive. It is not by chance that NASA now has only two shuttles left. Americans are returning to the old parachute landing pattern. It was once developed by Korolev and Glushko and perfected in the current "Unions". Yes, the Americans won the moon race. But what kind of trophy did they get for it? The right to order from Russia "Union"? By the way, we at IKI opposed the Soviet version of the shuttle, Burana. But when the dispute reached Marshal Ustinov, he said: “Do you think the Americans are fools ?!” And the program of the “Burans” was accepted.

- So your institute had no decisive word?

- Of course not. Although we have always worked bright minds, eminent scientists. During the years of my directorship, the brilliant astrophysicist Joseph Samuilovich Shklovsky worked with us. Academician Yakov Borisovich Zeldovich came, a true legend in physics and cosmology. Some of his students were major astrophysicists, for example, Rashid Alievich Syunyaev, one of the leaders of the Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics near Munich. And my student Albert Galeyev became the director of IKI after my departure. And now his student Lev Matveevich Zeleny is directing.

Now almost every day on the phone talking with colleagues. There, next to the director's office, there is an office with my name on the nameplate. We are actively cooperating on a new lunar project. The fact is that under Bush Jr NASA decided to return to the moon. Orbital reconnaissance flying around the moon. An international competition was announced, and the laboratory of Igor Mitrofanov from IKI offered a very interesting option. My group is also involved in this project. Today, IKI affairs are going uphill, not like in 90, when the state has given up on serious science.

- The question that you have been asked infinitely many times: why did you decide to go to America?

- I absolutely did not intend to move. There were bright hopes that the Soviet Union would turn into a normal democratic country. And I thought that it would be possible to live there and here. I was going to marry a foreigner — Susan Eisenhower — and we planned to spend half the time in one country and the other half in the other.

We met at a conference in 1987, in the state of New York, to which two hundred people came from the Union. I knew that she was interested in space projects, not as a scientist, of course, but rather as a public figure. Introduced a convenient moment. On the first evening they all gathered at the barbecue. Played a music band. I thought that you could invite her to dance and have a serious conversation. We talked for a long time about the Cold War, about history relations of our countries since the time of the presidency of her grandfather, Dwight Eisenhower.

The first dance only talked about this. Susan then wrote a book (it is called Breaking Free. A Memoir of Love and Revolution. 1995 year. - O. S.). A day after that memorable evening, the New York Times published an article about the conference. And it says about me: this Soviet delegate, who especially zealously opposes the strategic defense initiative of President Reagan, invited the granddaughter of another president to dance. We continued to talk on serious topics. Susan had a small think tank in Washington, and I was going to hold a conference in Moscow on the occasion of the 30 anniversary of the launch of the first Soviet satellite. She came as part of a large delegation of Americans.

- And the cold war is warming?

- According to the feelings of Susan, the turning point occurred when I asked her a question about the military-industrial complex. Her grandfather once admitted that there is a military-industrial complex in the United States. And I asked Susan: was your grandfather serious or joking? To which she said: yes, he spoke seriously, but we are now waiting for you to confess that you also have your own MIC. The barrier was broken when I confirmed that there is a military-industrial complex in the Soviet Union and I myself am to some extent its representative.

- When did they confess their love? Who made the first move?

- Everything went gradually. We met at various conferences and summits. I was then in the team of Gorbachev's advisers, along with Primakov, Arbatov, Velikhov. Take the book Susan. (Smiling slyly.) I agree with her version ...

(And the version, to summarize, is this. “Sagdeev and I fully understood the absolutely forbidden nature of our deepening rapprochement, which was then exclusively platonic, but some very strong thread began to bind us,” writes Susan Eisenhower. , of course, in Paris - this is a city that does not tolerate intimate understatement ... - “Results”.)

At the time of our acquaintance with Susan, my family was already nominal. I have a son and daughter from a previous marriage. Son Igor is now working in the UK, Anna’s daughter in America, in Virginia, working at NASA, by the way, they came regardless of me. Both computer geeks. Both my daughter and my son have two children.

... When Susan and I realized that we were bound by something more than political problems, we began to think together, and was there any organizational solution to our situation. Official permission for private trips to the USA was then impossible for me to receive. On the other hand, I would never have gone on to become a defector. For Susan, there was no such problem: for Americans, you know, always the way back is open. We discussed various options, including the option of visiting, visiting wife.

- An interesting status is the visiting wife.

“As soon as the Berlin Wall was dismantled in the autumn of 1989, we realized that the window had opened for us too. Of course, our relations were noticed by others, and I wanted to warn Gorbachev earlier than people from the KGB would have done. Yevgeny Maksimovich Primakov, who took on the mission of a mediator, helped a lot. He then told me: "Your message was received with understanding, but do not wait for applause." We didn’t ask Gorbachev for permission to marry. We just informed him about it. By the way, we didn’t know Mikhail Sergeevich during our university years, although we studied at the same time and lived in the same dorm on Stromynka. The wedding was in Moscow, and ecumenical. We were greatly helped by the then US ambassador to the USSR, Jack Matlock. The hall at Spaso House (the ambassador’s residence in Moscow. - “Results”) was reequipped into a chapel. The ambassadors pastor led the ceremony. Susan and her family are Protestants of the Anglican trend. Without me they agreed that the choir of the Orthodox diocese would come. I say to Susan: “My ancestors are Muslims. How to be? ”They invited and imam Ravil Gaynutdin in the first row. A handsome such man in a turban.

- But what about privacy? Did he, as head of the Space Institute, relate directly to you?

- From the moment I arrived at the institute, I tried to refuse contracts with the military-industrial complex on a closed line ... I had a deputy for the regime. He somehow says to me in a mild form: “Roald Zinnurovich, you have expired regime form, you need to fill out the questionnaire again.” I say: “Why? If you do not trust me, then do not send me secret documents. ” This conversation ended. Every time I went abroad, permission was given with special paper. That was the practice. I always tried to take my institute away from military tasks. In the USSR, and without us, there were many “mailboxes”. IKI was a kind of civil outlet that allowed to engage in pure science and actively cooperate in the international arena. Even in the defense department of the Central Committee there were people who sympathized with this position. True, after my departure, as I was later told, a special commission was created to assess the potential damage from information leakage. The conclusion is this: once I was aware, and today, after years of age, the damage has been reduced to zero. So I remained the chief researcher of the IKI.

- In those years, you became famous as an activist in perestroika ...

- Yes, I got carried away with politics, I believed in reforms. Published in Moscow the news»On the themes of perestroika, detente and disarmament. There is a version that socialism was broken by the CIA. No no! We ourselves defeated the Soviet system. Remember, people took to the streets. What grandiose manifestations were! When Susan and her friends and relatives came to our wedding in Moscow in early February 1990, they were amazed to see the scale of events, to feel their drama.

But it was not possible to avoid disappointments. At the famous XIX Party Conference, I opposed the automatic assignment of party leaders at various levels to symmetrical positions in administrative bodies, and the management clearly did not like my presentation. Gorbachev proposed a vote: who supported the proposal of the Politburo, and who “for the formulation of Comrade Sagdeev” - said so. 200 was voted for something in my wording, and a few thousand people voted for the Politburo resolution. I was very quickly given to understand that I was considered the opposition. After the party conference, I had to go with Gorbachev to Poland, but I was deleted from the delegation. Soon I became a people's deputy of the USSR. At the congress, he voted against the draft anti-democratic law on rallies and demonstrations. The vote was open, and I held my hand for a long time. Reporters ran up, photographed. It turned out that I was almost the only one who voted against. The position of Andrei Dmitrievich Sakharov was very close to me. For him, the difficult question was how to relate to Yeltsin? After all, his populism was so obvious. Still, the Democrats left Gorbachev and relied on Yeltsin. And for some time I believed in Yeltsin. We even drunk brotherhood ...

- Roald Zinnurovich, while I was walking along the corridor to your office, I heard Russian. Are there students from Russia here?

- Interns come under my scientific program - from Russia and other CIS republics. Young students, graduate students, candidates of science.

- You left for 1990. What is your status now?

- I have an American green card and a Russian passport. To travel to Europe, you have to get a Schengen visa once a year. But spared from the need to sit on the jury (laughs). Once Askar Akayev offered me a Kyrgyz passport. I answered him like this: “I will wait when I receive a Tatar passport”.

- Dangerous statement ...

- Joke. Remember, Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev promised that the current generation of Soviet people will live under communism? Now half of his family members live here. Everything happened almost as Nikita Sergeevich promised. We live here and in Russia - right under post-communism (laughs).

- Can we descend from space to life? Where do you live?

- We left for Susan two years ago, we live separately. But we still have a good relationship, we exchange emails, have dinner together. I live in Chevy Chase, on the border of the metropolitan District of Columbia and Maryland. Susan and I used to live outside the city, in a big private house. After all, I, as a former scoop, first seized upon the property, and then realized that I didn’t need anything of that. When I came to America, Susan had a big family. Three daughters. They left before my eyes - in colleges, universities, got families, children. We have a common cottage in Appalachia. That's where I have a wonderful feeling of privacy. You can’t hear the sounds created by man. Gluhoman, cottage stands in the middle of the forest. I like to repair, carpentry something, cut down trees when they die. I love to engage in flowers. My passion is jazz music. Americans themselves underestimate the contribution of jazz to their victory in the Cold War. I remember in Kazan my first shortwave receiver. Then the Voice of America was a wonderful program Jazz Hour, led by Willis Conover, a man with an amazingly thick, fascinating voice.

When I come to Moscow, I try to use every free evening, I go to amazing classical music concerts in the Tchaikovsky Hall and the Conservatory, to Bashmet and Tretyakov, to the “December Evenings”. I liked the club Jazz Town on Taganskaya Square.

- Do Americans perceive you as an outsider?

- At first there was interest as a person "from there." And now - professional interest. When I say that I am ethnically not Russian, but Tatar, they remember about steak in Tatar style. I explain to them: "My ancestors would be terribly surprised that such a dish is attributed to them."

- Do not call back to Kazan as a national pride of Tatarstan? Monument not promise to put the hero in the homeland?

- I go there quite often. I am an honorary doctor of Kazan University. I have relatives left there. And brother Renad, he is nine years younger than me, lives in Akademgorodok, he is a chemist.

And for the monument, I did not finish one star. Two stars of the Hero of Socialist Labor - and a monument was erected. And I left with one. I once said Susan: "If I get a star of the hero of capitalist labor, then the total will be reckoned." She said: "If you become a hero of capitalist labor, then you can buy any monument for yourself."



Dossier Roald Zinnurovich Sagdeev
Born in 1932 in Moscow. In 1955, he graduated from the Moscow State University M. V. Lomonosov.
In 1956 – 1961 worked at the Institute of Atomic Energy. I. V. Kurchatov.
In 1961 — 1970 headed the laboratory of the Institute of Nuclear Physics of the Siberian Branch of the USSR Academy of Sciences, in 1970 — 1973. - Laboratory of the Institute of High Temperature Physics, USSR Academy of Sciences.
In 1973, he headed the Space Research Institute of the USSR Academy of Sciences.
The main works are devoted to plasma physics and problems of controlled thermonuclear fusion and magnetic hydrodynamics. Supervised astronomical research carried out with the help of spacecraft.
He conducted important studies on the theory of magnetic traps tokamak, in particular, together with astrophysicist Albert Galeyev, developed the neoclassical theory of the processes of heat conduction and diffusion in tokamaks (1967 – 1968).
Full member of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR from 1968 (from the 1991, RAS). Member of the International Academy of Astronautics (1977).
Since 1990, Professor of the University of Maryland.
He was elected people's deputy of the USSR (1989 — 1991). He was a member of the Interregional Deputy Group.
Hero of Socialist Labor. He was awarded two Orders of Lenin, the Orders of the October Revolution and the Red Banner of Labor.
Laureate of the Lenin Prize (1984).
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