"Andropov's Plan" as part of a strategy for the destruction of Russian civilization

246
The Brezhnev “big deal” of the elite with the people had disastrous consequences for the great Russia (USSR). The process of disintegration of Russia has begun, and the consequences of this tragedy we see all the years of formation and development of the “new Russia” - the Russian Federation.

The ruling elite is rapidly degenerating. Under Stalin, the elite was disciplined, “iron”, served and worked tirelessly for the good of the whole power and people. Now an “anti-elite” appears, which sees its personal and future of its families only in the West. She does not rely on the development of the country, but on her robbery and collapse, in order to feast on the ruins of a great empire. This is the "elite" of marauders and parasites. Representatives of various tribal nationalism, stirred in the Brezhnev stagnant swamp, replenish this decaying top. And what will the power of parochial nationalists lead to, we will see on the example of the post-Soviet republics of Central Asia, the Caucasus, the Baltic states and Ukraine - the rampant of anti-Sovietism, wild Russophobia; rapid wildness and immersion in the archaic; degradation of the socio-economic infrastructure, science, education and culture; the power of the bays and khans, oligarchs and “independent” thieves presidents; the extinction and flight of young people, all able-bodied people to Western countries; collapse and civil war (Georgia and Ukraine). And no prospects in this development scenario; further it will be even worse. In particular, in Turkestan (Central Asia), obviously, a wave of “black Islam” will soon arise, and jihadists will sweep away completely the rotten township regimes of feudal lords and khans. Russia will receive the "southern front".



In the USSR, the “pipe” economy is being formed, which dooms the country in the future to an industrial and scientific-technical lag and collapse. By spending the currency received for the sale of resources, Russia was killing its own future. It should be remembered that before the de-industrialization of 1990-2000, Russia-USSR was still the second economy of the planet with advanced industries and a huge potential for their development. But the military-industrial complex of the USSR, despite the heavy blows of "reforms" and "optimizations" (in fact, destruction), allows the Russian Federation to still be one of the leading military powers. The economy of the “pipe” will reach its highest point already under the Russian Federation.

On the other hand, the “big deal” corrupts the population of Russia-USSR. A wild growth of human herd begins, ready to sell the country for “sausage” and “jeans”. High ideas of great ideals, patriotism, military prowess and scientific breakthroughs wither and die. A healthy work ethic is dying, which at all times has said: you want to live well, work well and work hard. Now the parasitic model is quickly being restored: it is necessary to settle down successfully through relatives, acquaintances, to cling to the feeder, to the system associated with distribution. In the USSR, social diseases flourish, the eternal satellites of the degeneration of society — mass alcoholism, unprecedented drug addiction appears in large cities, the number of criminal ethics carriers is rapidly growing.

Thus, the social base of the liberal-democratic “electorate” is formed, which then will “vote with the heart” for the destroyer Yeltsin or for the Ukrainian “independent supporters”, who will quickly turn the flourishing Little Russia-Ukraine into the “Ruin”.

The “big deal” will create a terrible illusion in the Soviet people. The powerful social benefits that the Soviet government gave, a safe life (without the threat of external war and the threat of the power of criminal groups) created the illusion that everything is taken for granted, natural. New generations did not know that they had to pay for all this with huge blood and suffering during the years of revolution and civil war, industrialization and collectivization, the struggle against the “fifth column” (“the great purge”) and during the terrible Great Patriotic War and post-war reconstruction. All this is in the past. In the Brezhnev era, people no longer needed to work hard, to build a new country practically from scratch, to fight and defend the socialist Fatherland. As a result, the Soviet people in “1991” were “divorced”: it seemed to the people that everything good that was in the USSR would remain, but new opportunities and benefits, freedoms and entertainment will appear. People believed in beautiful pictures of comfortable western life. They believed in the false images of a fabulous, never existing “free” and “civilized” West. At the same time in the national republics added another illusion. They say that our nation is better than others, and if we get rid of the "damned scoop", "Soviet occupation", then we will live like a fairy tale. What brought this trouble to the Baltic States or Ukraine? The extinction of the people and the already visible prospect of total destruction.

"Andropov's Plan" as part of a strategy for the destruction of Russian civilization

Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov

As a result, in the 1982 year, when Brezhnev died, Soviet civilization approached a new point of choice for the future. The era of stability, "stagnation" has come to an end. It was no longer possible to live like this. The safety factor of the USSR came to an end. His plan for the "modernization" of the USSR was prepared by the new leader of the country, the chief of the KGB of the USSR - Yuri Andropov. It was based on two parts. First, in foreign policy - the merger of the Western and Soviet systems, the Soviet elite becomes a full part of the global elite. Secondly, in domestic politics - reliance on an active minority, dissatisfied with their position. The implication was a passionate, qualified and competitive minority capable of providing a breakthrough for the country and equal entry into the “global community”.

Andropov understood that the country was heading for a crisis. The Soviet Union is beginning to lag behind the West, and soon this lag will become critical, which will cause a total crisis, perhaps the collapse of the system. From the construction of communism, in fact, refused. With the current situation, the Soviet project was doomed to death and absorption by the Western, capitalist world. That is, the balance of forces - military-strategic, political, economic, cultural and educational, changed in favor of the West.

As a result, was born “The project of Andropov” - modernization of the USSR in the direction of the western civilization project. Creating such a symbiosis that will preserve Russia, its uniqueness, will enable it to survive in a cruel world where the rules of the game are set by the masters of the West. And the Soviet elite will be given the opportunity to become a full part of the global elite. This was the Andropov convergence - a plan for convergence, unification of the Soviet and Western models of development. In the USSR (before the collapse of Soviet civilization and the victory of the Western model of globalization), then there was a fashionable idea that more and more features of Soviet socialism appeared in the West, and more and more features of capitalism appeared in the USSR. That is, the two systems are going towards each other. This theory really liked the Soviet elite.

In reality, the Soviet system degraded from the time of Khrushchev and Brezhnev. That is, the new Soviet world gave the position of the old - the capitalist, in fact, the ancient slaveholding, world of gentlemen-slave owners and slaves, a predatory, parasitic world. And the Western elite, under the pressure of the Soviet system, was forced to give indulgences to its plebeians, to give an opportunity to create a powerful middle class. In the West, so that the people did not want the transition to socialism, they were forced to create a "capitalism showcase", the illusion of the peaceful existence of classes, freedom and equality of opportunity. And as soon as the USSR and the socialist camp laid down weapon and collapsed, so the masters of the West began to quickly abandon their old concessions, and the middle class began to rapidly disappear. Only the rich and many categories of poor and beggars remain. Hence the recent social unrest in Greece or France, the growing hatred of migrants and the popularity of nationalist sentiments. The middle and petty bourgeoisie of Western civilization came under attack, Western globalization and total liberalization are killing it.

In foreign policy, Andropov, before going to merge with the West, wanted to thoroughly frighten the Western elite. To create a powerful negotiation base. The USSR was supposed to be a mighty giant - military and economic. Hence the new round of the Cold War. Moscow firmly responded to the deployment of the American Pershing-2 medium-range ballistic missiles and cruise missiles in Europe. Andropov promised to deploy tactical nuclear weapons in the GDR and Czechoslovakia and to push nuclear submarines to the shores of the United States. The USSR waged a war in Afghanistan quite successfully, opposing America in Central Asia. Moscow has taken steps to improve relations with China in order to oppose the Soviet-Chinese alliance with the NATO bloc. Toughly Andropov responded to the downed Korean "Boeing" in 1983 year. It seemed that a new crisis of the USSR was beginning in relations with the West. US President Ronald Reagan declared the USSR an "evil empire," stepped up the arms race. Western propaganda launched another information campaign against the USSR.

In reality, all this fit well with the plan of convergence with the West. Andropov created a strong bargaining position. Before the merger with the West, the USSR showed its power in order for the Soviet elite to achieve corresponding positions in the new world order. Thus, Andropov was preparing the strongest position of Moscow in future negotiations with the leadership of the West. To have something to give, while maintaining the basics. To frighten the West, and then taking advantage of its fear of the USSR, to conduct convergence on the most favorable conditions for the Soviet elite. Integrate Russia into the West so as to maintain the position of the Soviet elite, so that it becomes a full part of the world eliteand not by the colonial peripheral administration, as is customary in the Western world.

Thus, in a way, Andropov repeated the path of Peter I and the Romanovs project. He believed that Russian (Soviet) civilization cannot be autocratic, independent, live by its own rules. Therefore, before it’s too late, you need to enter the Western project, the Western world. To carry out modernization and agree with the West, Europe. To accept the priority of the Western development matrix, to reasonably fit into Western civilization.

At the first stage, there was an internal modernization, a radical restructuring of the national economy, an acceleration strategy. In foreign policy, this is a tough position that should have frightened the masters of the West, forcing them to go along the path of agreement, a “big deal” with the Soviet elite. And for the “tough” Andropov there should have come new, liberal leaders who were promptly led to the leadership and moved upwards. Such as Gorbachev, Shevardnadze, Ligachev and others. They had to agree with the owners of Western Europe on the entry of the Soviet elite into the "world government", the global elite.

How it ended, we know very well. The owners of the West do not need any Russia - neither monarchical-tsarist, nor Soviet, nor democratic-pro-Western. The West needs only a colony, the wealth of Russiaaccumulated over the millennium, sources of cheap raw materials, labor, market for their products. As well as the colonial administration, without question, performing all the instructions of the "world community". At the same time, the colonial administration should not only give access to the resources and wealth of Russia, which support the creation of a “new world order” (global slave civilization). But to pursue a course that at one time was honestly voiced by Hitler and his henchmen — the socio-economic, cultural-linguistic, civilizational genocide of the Russian people. The Russian superethnos is not needed by the West even in the form of slaves, the Russians are too dangerous, the “Russian soul”. Hence the course of depopulation, the cultural and linguistic genocide of the Russians, so that the Russians would quickly die out and their remnants assimilate, forget their language, culture and history, became the usual "two-legged tools."

Interestingly, the during the reign of Putin and Medvedev, Moscow repeated this erroneous strategy of Andropov. The Kremlin refused to fulfill the role of a merely semi-colonial administration, as was the case in the 1990s. Took the creation of a “united Europe - from Lisbon to Vladivostok” course. I tried to get closer to Europe, the West. In the first place with the Old World - Berlin, Vienna, Rome, Paris, Madrid. Old European elites. The Russian elite wanted to become part of the world elite. It is not surprising that her capital, children and families were in the West. At the same time, the financial and economic, cultural life of Russia was fully subordinated to the interests of globalization on the basis of a Western project. Russia refused from “autocracy”, “special way”, “Russian messianism”. Russian were supposed to be "Russians". Putin has repeatedly voiced that the “national idea” of Russia is an increase in the well-being of citizens. That is, the typical subordination of the Western development matrix, matter above the spirit.

The problem is that the owners of the West do not see their equal in the Russian “elite”. For them, the Russian “elite” is the “Russian mafia,” oligarch thieves, corrupt officials, and security forces. It can be used, but it has no place in the global elite. The rules of the game are dictated by the masters of the West. Therefore, as soon as the West and the world system felt the new stage of the crisis of capitalism, the systemic crisis of the entire consumer-predatory system, the unfair concept of living arrangement, so the former "bright" plans of the owners of the Russian Federation to enter Europe and fell down. The West needs the wealth and resources of the Russian land in order to “reset” the western matrix, to establish a stable neo-slave system in the form of a “digital concentration camp”.

Hence the current confrontation. The hosts of the Russian Federation are trying in every way to eliminate the “misunderstanding”, to become part of the “civilized world”. Sometimes they are threatened: like Bakhnem! .. At the same time, the Russian Federation remains the cultural and financial-economic periphery of the West and partially of the East. The Russian people (both in the Russian Federation and in Ukraine) are dying out. And the masters of the West, step by step, are implementing a thousand-year strategy to enslave the planet and destroy Russian civilization. Compress the noose "snake", but gradually, do not squeeze, so as not to cause an unexpected reaction. Sometimes weaken the loop, give hope.

To be continued ...
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  1. +33
    7 February 2019 06: 15
    I do not think that Andropov had an idea "to fit into the Western world" ... But there was order in the country. I remember very well how they began to impose discipline and order in production, new models of management were tested. The same "economic experiment"
    1. +20
      7 February 2019 06: 22
      from Andropov's reign, I only remember the Andropovka vodka and the round-ups in cinemas on the subject: "Why not at work?"
      1. -11
        7 February 2019 07: 00
        Quote: Dead Day
        from Andropov's reign, I only remember the Andropovka vodka and the round-ups in cinemas on the subject: "Why not at work?"

        And the endless lines in stores forgot ...
        1. +2
          7 February 2019 08: 16
          Quote: Puncher
          And the endless lines in stores forgot ...

          and when they were gone.
          life after work, all in a row.
          any trip to the store, turn.
          1. -13
            7 February 2019 09: 02
            When it’s about the lines - they are, the Soviet people, as they themselves said - lived well. Prior to this, there were cards, speculators and, in places, hunger.
            Here from the newspaper about the triumph of the spirit over matter, about the victory of communism - and they need to feed the child. It was not possible to grow up a new Soviet man - without the material needs of a completely dedicated construction of communism.
            1. +15
              7 February 2019 09: 54
              And under the king there were tales of a better life in the afterlife. Now about a better life under capitalism.
            2. +9
              7 February 2019 19: 25
              Quote: Mestny
              and sometimes hunger.

              there was no hunger
            3. The comment was deleted.
        2. +31
          7 February 2019 08: 36
          Quote: Puncher
          And the endless lines in stores forgot

          now there are no queues, but there are ENDLESS stores laughing
          1. +13
            7 February 2019 08: 48
            The Big Deal will create a terrible illusion in the Soviet people. The powerful social benefits that the Soviet government gave, a safe life (without the threat of an external war and the threat of the power of criminal groups) created the illusion that everything is taken for granted, natural. New generations no longer knew that all this had to be paid for with enormous blood and suffering ...

            In the Brezhnev era, people no longer had to work hard, build a new country from scratch, fight and defend the socialist Fatherland. Eventually ...

            ... when Brezhnev died, Soviet civilization came to a new point of choice for the future. The era of stability, "stagnation" came to an end. It was no longer possible to live like that.
            - from article

            The fact that the Khrushchev thaw and Brezhnev stagnation led to the crisis of the Soviet development system is an indisputable fact.
            It was necessary to change something in the economy and domestic politics, everyone was tired of each time the next shortage of goods generated, the long-standing irremovable political elders who did not want to do anything at all, against which parasitic ruling clans of politicians and business executives began to take shape on the ground.
            No, the movement to systematically improve the living conditions of people was: more housing was built for people, new products that qualitatively improved people's lives appeared, but there was no real opportunity for active people to participate in the life of the state themselves, to independently solve individual life-unsolved problems by the state.
            This was the problem of Soviet society, the people saw a stagnation in development, but people themselves could not do anything, the power of political centenarians ignored the needs of people, plunged everyone into their old age.
            We needed economic changes and political adjustments to the country's development course, and the question of regular political turnover was sharply raised.
            The crisis of socialist construction had begun by that time not only in the USSR, but also in other socialist states. In China, for example, it was at that time in 1978 that Deng Xiao Ping's economic and political reforms had just begun, thanks to which the country began to develop sharply, overcoming the crisis, and in China, emphasis was placed on economic changes.
            In the USSR, unfortunately, the changes began first with tightening the screws during the Andropov period, and then with changes in the political system during the Gorbachev period, which led to the breakdown of the entire socialist way of life and the rout of the state.
            1. 0
              7 February 2019 15: 30
              Vladimir Z. The periods were described correctly, their essence is somewhat different. The Khrushchev period had the goal of eradicating Stalin's rough rule with the bloody suppression of everything and everyone by the NKVD, and N.S. Khrushchev began a new "revival", a thaw, and with new approaches, a new "re-industrialization" based on the experience of the best achievements of concerns and others in the capitalist the world (trip to the USA), - large mechanized farms, enterprises, etc. Everything went well, but seeing such prospects, the enemies of the USSR understood the dangers, and the process of eliminating such a development policy began, artificial "difficulties" began (after the coup, everything immediately appeared on the shelves !!!) .. The main anti-Soviet coup was created by shadow forces by planting indecisive and accommodating LI Brezhnev in the general secretaries, and under his collective leadership of the Politburo, the decaying collapse of the USSR was pushed along the path of exaltation of material wealth .. It was then that various Gaidars and Arbatovs, in the leading development institutions of the USSR, were betrayed by the USSR. Instead of looking for the further development of the USSR (as an example of the PRC), those Gaidarites began to convince that everything was lost, socialism would soon collapse itself, only capitalism would save ... And Gaidar recklessly and criminally broke the socialist foundations, and Chubais distributed all the riches of Russia to his accomplices ...
              1. +7
                8 February 2019 23: 30
                Quote: Vladimir 5
                The Khrushchev period had the goal of eradicating Stalin's rough rule with the bloody suppression of everything and everyone by the NKVD, and N.S. Khrushchev began a new "revival", a thaw, and with new approaches, a new "re-industrialization" based on the experience of the best achievements of concerns and others in the capitalist the world (a trip to the USA), - large mechanized farms, enterprises, etc. Everything was going well

                I dare to ask, at what age was the author of this phrase during the designated period of Khrushchev's rule? Did he have the opportunity to personally hear the statements of the working people and other people about the methods of state management of the leader he praises? "Corn TV ..." - the most neutral nickname for the pot-bellied miracle, in which even in the Kuban food was rationed. Well, the opinion of those officers who fell under the "thaw" and do not need to ask, more so everything is clear ... and even without a mat.
                He did not uproot "Stalin's rude rule", but above all evidence of his personal participation in the "bloody suppression" ... And, simply, he avenged his humiliated stay in the role of a jester "at the court" of the Great Leader.
                Voluntarism is a team method, making arbitrary decisions in spite of objective conditions and circumstances. And this is exactly about him, about "Khrushche". It was under him that the party "khans" received the status of untouchables, got out of the control of law enforcement agencies and began to "bronze", presenting themselves as "the ultimate truth." It was under him that the nationalist shortcomings in Ukraine got the opportunity to sow into the head what is now called "Ukrainian fascism." It was with him ...
                1. -4
                  8 February 2019 23: 48
                  Clone ... At that time I was a schoolboy and I remember a lot. Do not forget, after the harshness of the Stalinist period, all the hidden problems surfaced ... Then bread became FREE in canteens and cheap in stores, so it went for livestock feed and became a shortage, like many cheap products and products. Distribution - trade became completely corrupt, because there was no "Stalinist" fear, etc. ... The post-Stalinist period was the most difficult, I know this from the facts, and it was not possible to achieve security right away, for that the foundations were laid, which already under Brezhnev bore fruit. ..Of course, NS Khrushchev was not a strong leader, he buried himself, especially in the end, made mistakes, but under him socialism would have developed and not decayed. as under Brezhnev ...
              2. +4
                12 February 2019 18: 01
                Quote: Vladimir 5
                had the goal of eradicating Stalin’s rude rule with bloody suppression by the NKVD bodies of everything and everyone

                Yeah, and the last years of Stalin's life, when did he advocate the Party's withdrawal from economic management ??
                Quote: Vladimir 5
                NS Khrushchev began a new "revival", a thaw, and with new approaches - a new "re-industrialization" based on the experience of the best achievements of concerns and others in the capitalist world
                The economy under Khrushchev rolled by inertia, he slowed it down as stupidly and insanely as possible and took from foreign experience only what he slipped. How many projects he hacked !!!
                Quote: Vladimir 5
                The main anti-Soviet coup was created by shadow forces, putting the indecisive and accommodating Leonid Brezhnev in the secretary general

                There was such a figure - Mikhail Suslov, who was in charge of the ideology and party currency under Stalin, did the same under Khrushchev, the same under Brezhnev. - And what did we limp? right ideology, which caused a feeling close to vomiting? - ideological methods of work of the party! The question is who is to blame ???
                1. -1
                  12 February 2019 18: 15
                  aybolit .. Quote: ". The economy under Khrushchev was rolling by inertia, he was stupid and insane as he could, and he took from foreign experience only what was slipped into him." Then the statistics are in your hands and take a look at the statistics of the economic growth of the USSR in the years of N, S. Khrushchev, - five-year and seven-year plans for the country's development, and their implementation and overfulfillment ... Your tirade, from VOICE accusations by the revolutionaries N.S. that's why the statistics are in your hands, and then we'll talk (at home, Khrushchev and Cheryomushki don't tell you anything when after the war there is nowhere to live. And panel apartment buildings are "copied" from Americans, etc.) ... The winners write history, so they wrote about N S. Khrushchev, to justify himself ...
                2. -1
                  13 February 2019 20: 03
                  Aibolit678 ... The real name of M.A. Suslova, - Suess, and look at the entire structure of power under Leonid Brezhnev, 80% of hidden Jews: Leonid Brezhnev himself, - Gonapolsky, wife Goldberg, Gromyko - Katz, etc., on the face of a purely Jewish coup, and already complete domination. in the Politburo. Therefore, the KGB immediately handed over to the Jew Andropov, - to mother Flekinstein ... We have hidden Jewish rule and consequences, also in favor of the Jewish component of society, which later called itself "oligarchy" ... This is not anti-Semitism, only facts ...
              3. +1
                16 February 2019 22: 39
                "The Khrushchev period had the goal of eradicating the rude Stalinist rule with the bloody suppression of everything and everyone by the NKVD, and N.S. Khrushchev began a new" revival ", a thaw, and with new approaches - a new" re-industrialization "based on the experience of the best achievements of concerns and others in capitalist world "
                Bullshit, you are either not familiar with the story, or you consciously distort it:
                The most Stakhanovist of the Stakhanovites of the purges was Khrushch - it was to him that Stalin wrote "calm down" ...
                Apparently you still don’t know the middle name of Kukuruznik, the best practices ...
                You probably studied history somewhere at Harvard or Yelsk, because you are not familiar with the fact that under Stalin there was a private small-scale production, and it was crunch that crushed it ...
                And this is only what lies on the surface, and if you do not know this, then you are a talker Vladimir 5 and empty chest!
                Well, if you know, then you yourself know who - in the warmest expressions:
                Foe!
          2. +1
            7 February 2019 09: 21
            Quote: aybolyt678
            but there are ENDLESS shops

            and this is very bad.
            and even worse, people have forgotten what a "deficit" is and "got it out by pull"
            1. +15
              7 February 2019 10: 00
              Why forget the deficit !? This is a very topical issue today. Today, a huge shortage of money! How is this being fought today? Take loans to cover the deficit. But after that, the money shortage grows even larger. So the topic of deficit today is even more relevant than then!
              1. -3
                7 February 2019 10: 09
                You always have a choice - to walk, try to make money on a car, or take a loan.
                The key is choice.
                With a shortage of choice, there was no choice. If, for example, a child needs clothes and baby food, you will "get it".
                1. +7
                  7 February 2019 10: 52
                  If a child needs clothes or baby food you are forced to get out, look for money! What did Gref say? Today, people do not save, but take loans! Do you cut a chip?
                  1. +2
                    7 February 2019 12: 44
                    Quote: Mister Creed
                    If a child needs clothes or baby food you are forced to get out, look for money!

                    There is one half-forgotten word ..Good word ..-Work -Earn for a living ... for yourself and your family ..
                    1. +16
                      7 February 2019 13: 04
                      Quote: 30 vis
                      Quote: Mister Creed
                      If a child needs clothes or baby food you are forced to get out, look for money!

                      There is one half-forgotten word ..Good word ..-Work -Earn for a living ... for yourself and your family ..

                      In fact, in today's realities, working does not mean providing a family .. I know people who work two or even three jobs and are not rich .. but just recently one had a stroke (40 years old man). . and now generally with the problem of work ... I worked at three jobs for wear and tear .. for the family I tried mortgages, cars on credit, etc ..
                      1. -3
                        7 February 2019 13: 07
                        Quote: Svarog
                        and never got rich ..

                        Feel the difference in offers ...----Making money ... for yourself and your family. You suggest not to work?
                2. +23
                  7 February 2019 13: 01
                  Quote: Mestny
                  You always have a choice - to walk, try to make money on a car, or take a loan.
                  The key is choice.

                  The choice under capitalism is an illusion .. Well, what choice does a young man who has grown up in a poor family have? A man and a young man have a choice, and who has graduated and in the interval from 20 to 30 years, he still has this choice .. and then, this choice will not allow him to achieve anything serious .. for money and money that there is a choice who has more of them .. and the saddest thing is that under capitalism, you and your children and their children will live without a choice, with a very rare happy exception .. But socialism really gave more choice. .
                  1. Fat
                    +1
                    9 February 2019 11: 48
                    Quote: Svarog
                    and the saddest thing is that under capitalism, you and your children and their children will live without a choice, with a very rare happy exception .. But socialism really gave more choice ..

                    Yu. V. Andropov generally doubted that developed socialism won by 1977 (Constitution of the USSR) Therefore, he assessed the formation that had developed in the USSR as "Mature socialism".
                    In developed socialism, the formula "money to money" was replaced by the formula "nomenclature to nomenclature." If you are not a member of the CPSU, you will never become a factory director.
                    The leaders raised in this way in 1991 publicly tore up and threw away party cards. Such is the "elite"
              2. +2
                7 February 2019 10: 22
                Quote: Mister Creed
                Take loans to cover the deficit.

                strange, I don’t take a loan, although there is a shortage of money.
                I try to live on what is.
                and the fact that the pension is not very large is to blame. could get much more
                1. +15
                  7 February 2019 13: 06
                  Quote: widower
                  strange, I don’t take a loan, although there is a shortage of money.
                  I try to live on what is.

                  Many have no other options simply .. there are people whose parents have already died, there are no relatives nearby, and ZP 15, so they take loans .. Or there’s no place to live stupidly .. You just have a different situation ..
                2. +1
                  11 February 2019 18: 24
                  I also do without loans. Although it’s simple and easy to give too much money, it’s useful to me.
            2. +4
              8 February 2019 16: 18
              Quote: widower
              people have forgotten what a "deficit" is and "got it by pull"

              It was just a bias in favor of the military-industrial complex. First of all, the defense industry, and then consumer goods.
              All that was needed was to correct, to smooth out this skew. It was not necessary to break the country because of chewing gum and jeans
          3. +10
            7 February 2019 10: 16
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Quote: Puncher
            And the endless lines in stores forgot

            now there are no queues, but there are ENDLESS stores laughing

            In which there is everything, but not affordable for most citizens. And what has changed? What then could not buy, because there was not, what is now, because there is not enough money.
            1. +2
              7 February 2019 10: 48
              What about the essence? Deficit! Money shortage! I want to buy a Porsche! There is a car! No money! Therefore, plus!
              1. -10
                7 February 2019 15: 46
                A shortage of money and a shortage of goods are two very different things. In one case, the system says get the money, and in the second case, the system says get the connection.
                If with a deficit you can earn money on the right things, then in another case, they can only be obtained by illegal methods
                1. +7
                  7 February 2019 18: 41
                  If with a deficit you can earn money on the right things, then in another case, they can only be obtained by illegal methods

                  Moreover, in order to have enough money, it is also necessary to use illegal methods, for nothing theft and kickbacks flourish from the smallest managers, to the cabinet of ministers ...
                  So you can’t tell tales about the lack of deficit hi
                  1. -3
                    7 February 2019 20: 36
                    And it is possible and legal. In another case, all legitimate ones are closed.
                2. +10
                  8 February 2019 10: 01
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  A shortage of money and a shortage of goods are two very different things. In one case, the system says get the money, and in the second case, the system says get the connection.
                  If with a deficit you can earn money on the right things, then in another case, they can only be obtained by illegal methods

                  When I wrote - = What then I could not buy, because it was not, = then I somewhat sinned with the truth. When we say - there was no, we mean - there was no state. prices. And again it is wrong. True, it was, but you have to stand in line. True, today, it might not be enough. Anything has happened. But nobody had an empty refrigerator. There was a shortage of furniture, good clothes and shoes, I will not list. But, what is interesting, until 85 we had a wide selection of TVs, refrigerators, washing machines and other household appliances in our stores. And at 87, I remember because after returning from the liquidation of the consequences of the Chernobyl accident, I wanted to buy a new vacuum cleaner, "Raketa" was already tired, by the way, it still works in the country, and there was NOTHING in the stores! Where did it all go? And then it got even worse. I, for myself, made one conclusion - the plan of Gorbaty and K * to discredit the Sov. power entered the first phase. And then ... everyone knows what happened next.
                3. 0
                  8 February 2019 18: 55
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  the system says get money

                  it does not say the system, but an urgent need. And the system did not create opportunities to earn them
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  the system says get the connection.
                  it is again not the system that speaks, but a view of life and a grafted way of thinking. The system cannot speak, the system either creates connections or destroys them.
              2. +2
                11 February 2019 18: 28
                "" Let's drink so that our desires coincide with our capabilities "(" Prisoner of the Caucasus ")
            2. +12
              7 February 2019 19: 31
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              In which there is everything

              There is no such food in the shops as in the USSR, but I really want a slice of cheese with taste, it’s not clear what, but cheese, and so as to recognize the variety in the USSR to taste., Sausage, bread and butter, etc.
              1. -10
                7 February 2019 20: 37
                Yes, buy butter for 100 rubles a small packet, sausage for 800 per kg, and so on.
                1. +8
                  7 February 2019 22: 22
                  Is it like that?
                  http://www.zhlobber.ru/2018/11/doktorskaya-kolbasa-podorozhala-v-3-raza.html
                  Eat yourself and have a good mood.
                2. +2
                  8 February 2019 18: 56
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  sausage for 800 per kg and so on.

                  Sausage these days is a way to hide content. Therefore, in the case of sausage, money is not a criterion. I declare it as a specialist
          4. +5
            8 February 2019 13: 00
            Quote: aybolyt678
            no queues now

            And there are no labor on the exchanges? lol
            1. 0
              8 February 2019 19: 00
              Quote: victor50
              And there are no labor on the exchanges?

              Uh, no! labor, opportunity is now in short supply! amazing but this resource is not involved in our power! belay where are they looking ??? smile
        3. +21
          7 February 2019 09: 41
          Quote: Puncher
          And the endless lines in stores forgot ...

          And it’s not so that the lines were long in 1984. Except for what deficit ...

          The vast majority, recalling the Soviet queues before 1987, for some reason forgets that we are always talking about products at prices 2-3 times lower than market prices. And at market prices, i.e. there were no queues at the market, at the bazaar. If now somewhere they began to sell products at prices three times lower than market prices, then there would be considerable queues. For example, a grocery supermarket "Zadarma" has opened in our village, because there are always queues at four cash desks. Although everything is cheaper by 15 percent on average. What would happen if everything became 200-300% cheaper?
          1. -6
            7 February 2019 10: 14
            It was developed socialism - what market, what market prices?
            But it turns out that the socialist system was not able to provide its citizens with the most necessary.
            Without a market economy, socialism does not work? So there’s nothing for people to fool their heads, telling about the fairest system in the world, at the same time spreading their hands, that’s nothing without a market.
            1. +5
              7 February 2019 10: 22
              Quote: Mestny
              It was developed socialism - what market, what market prices?

              Socialism is the initial phase of communism and bears all the imprints of capitalism, from which it grows.

              Quote: Mestny
              But it turns out that the socialist system was not able to provide its citizens with the most necessary.

              Nothing of the kind happens.

              In the late 50s, early 60s were committed anti-socialist reforms resulting in shortages.

              Quote: Mestny
              Without a market economy, socialism does not work?

              Socialism is not communism yet and it has many inherent disadvantages of capitalism, only to a lesser extent.

              Quote: Mestny
              So there’s nothing for people to fool their heads, telling about the fairest system in the world, at the same time spreading their hands, that’s nothing without a market.

              So do not fool people with your speculation. Better spend time on self-education. Then there will be less questions.
            2. +6
              7 February 2019 11: 00
              Well, tell me how capitalism was able to provide everyone with everything necessary! The author wrote about late time if that. Didn’t live then? Tell us how under capitalism we all began to have two Mercedes! Do you even communicate with people? Nobody told you that they spend half or all for the rent?
            3. +2
              7 February 2019 13: 18
              Quote: Mestny
              It was developed socialism - what market, what market prices?

              developed socialism had a very undeveloped distribution system. Once I tried to find truthful information about the retail space, it turned out something like this: the outskirts by 4 times, and the center at least 10-20 or more times, the same with the trade infrastructure, it turns out that under socialism ALL WORKED in production, and under "capitalism" they work in distribution.
          2. 0
            7 February 2019 10: 25
            Quote: McAr
            for some reason forgets that we are always talking about products

            but for NORMAL clothes and shoes there were no lines?
            I am already silent about the car. We stood in line for YEARS. and this despite the fact that almost every day in the program "Time" we were told how many cars left the assembly line of a particular plant.
            1. +6
              7 February 2019 10: 30
              Quote: widower
              but for NORMAL clothes and shoes there were no lines?
              I am already silent about the car. We stood in line for YEARS. and this despite the fact that almost every day in the program "Time" we were told how many cars left the assembly line of a particular plant.

              In the late 50s and early 60s, a quiet anti-socialist counter-revolution took place. As a result of these reforms, a shortage has appeared. You know all this, remember. Is not it so?

              If there was a rollback from socialism and recapitalization of the system began, then the answer to your questions about clothes, shoes, cars, and other things, in my opinion, is obvious. Is not it?
              1. 0
                7 February 2019 11: 12
                Quote: McAr
                silent anti-socialist counter-revolution.

                I am not fond of Marxism Leninism.
                I don't care what the tuning is called. coca "ism" to pile me a bunch.
                You know all this, remember. Is not it so?

                did not know. because I didn’t understand the isms. I saw the queue ideficit
                If there was a rollback from socialism and recapitalization of the system began, then the answer to your questions about clothes, shoes, cars, and other things, in my opinion, is obvious. Is not it?

                Communists ruled the country and they brought the country to such a disgrace.
                now they tell tales about "stagnation" and call us back
                1. +7
                  7 February 2019 11: 22
                  Quote: widower
                  I am not fond of Marxism Leninism.

                  Well, in vain. This is science. Objective laws concerning everyone, including you. There is not much trouble in that, if you do not understand why all objects fall to the ground, but ignorance of why this is so severely limits. It's good that there were people who were "fond of" this or that, otherwise we would still run in the skins of a mammoth.

                  Quote: widower
                  I don't care what the tuning is called. coca "ism" to pile me a bunch.

                  This is clear. Only dignity is doubtful.

                  Quote: widower
                  Communists ruled the country and they brought the country to such a disgrace.

                  It was not the Communists who brought the country to shame, but the anti-communists. One cannot seriously consider that a party ticket makes a person a communist.
                  1. 0
                    7 February 2019 11: 48
                    Quote: McAr
                    Well, in vain. This is science.

                    science is physics, chemistry, mathematics, etc.
                    that is, science, where everything is EXACTLY.
                    and Marxism, Leninism is not a science. FANTASIES and SLOGONS !!!
                    There isn’t much trouble, if you don’t understand why all the objects fall to the ground,

                    correctly. from this, objects will not fall up
                    It's good that there were people who were "fond of" this or that, otherwise we would still run in the skins of a mammoth.

                    Neanderthal man read Lenin and took a stick in his hands? belay
                    and I thought LABOR made a man of a monkey
                    It was not the Communists who brought the country to shame, but the anti-communists.

                    so I didn’t bring them to power.
                    you communists !!!!
                    One cannot seriously consider that a party ticket makes a person a communist.

                    you took them to your party !!!! to power YOU made them !!!!!
                    you asked the people when labeled to power allowed ???
                    what should I tell you now who he was. YOUR feeding up !!!
                    the people of the USSR were not to blame that YOU ruined the country !!!!
                    ebn who gave a membership card ????? who admitted to power ?????
                    and how is this related to your "science"? yes directly !!! they studied it and followed this course
                    1. +2
                      7 February 2019 13: 12
                      Quote: widower
                      science is physics, chemistry, mathematics, etc.
                      that is, science, where everything is EXACTLY.

                      That is exactly so in Marxism - everything is for sure. Moreover, often neglecting just one word emasculates or even changes the meaning.

                      But further discussion of anything on this topic is meaningless. All that you think about the issues raised is wrong. And by the way, you are not the author of what you have in mind about this.
                  2. +11
                    7 February 2019 11: 51
                    I could not resist. Another plus. And for -
                    Quote: McAr

                    It was not the Communists who brought the country to shame, but the anti-communists. One cannot seriously consider that a party ticket makes a person a communist.

                    100 more pluses.
                  3. +4
                    7 February 2019 21: 04
                    Quote: McAr
                    It was not the Communists who brought the country to shame, but the anti-communists. One cannot seriously consider that a party ticket makes a person a communist.

                    this is the point! and even a party ticket gives great opportunities to such anti-communists. than it reminds me of the Khazar Khaganate.
              2. +1
                7 February 2019 13: 26
                Quote: McAr
                If there was a rollback from socialism

                rollback ...? wassat officially? fool the main question is which way to roll to ensure guaranteed socialism?
                for me personally, the answer is clear, it’s not even a rejection of the ideas of Marx Lenin, it’s the banking system.
                1. +3
                  7 February 2019 13: 51
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  rollback ...? officially? the main question is which way to roll to ensure guaranteed socialism?

                  In 1961, the thesis about the dictatorship of the proletariat was thrown out of the party’s program, and the very next year, as proof of this, the workers were shot in Novocherkassk for demands that are relevant even in the capitalist system.
                  What is this if not the beginning of recapitalization?

                  Officially? How do you imagine this? Gorbachev's perestroika, remember what slogans did you begin with? "More socialism!" And how did more socialism become?
                  1. +2
                    7 February 2019 17: 31
                    Quote: McAr
                    In 1961, the thesis of the dictatorship of the proletariat was dropped from the party’s program.

                    Is it not in 1956? Khrushchev’s report that the proletariat disappeared as a class.
                    Quote: McAr
                    Gorbachev's perestroika, do you remember with which slogans it began? "More socialism!"

                    And then remember? - more socialism, more Glasnost! and almost immediately - about the fight against drunkenness and alcoholism, and again, immediately the abolition of the state monopoly on the alcohol trade! which is incompatible! More Socialism! - the slogan, "About Cooperation" - the LAW allowing individual SHOPs !!! trade with foreign countries in a planned economy! this is when the assembly shop had the right to sell a turbine for a power plant for dollars! scoring on the PLAN !!!
                    Glasnost was understood as the abuse of the Socialist way of life and the "dirty linen" of Soviet life; any arguments in favor of socialism were interpreted as anti-perestroika, not in keeping with the spirit of the times. And already from about 1988, a course towards the revival of Capitalism in the USSR was openly taken. And the Party, in a system of sheep, went to a bright market (Marxist) Future.
                    My question is how today, having studied the Capital of Marx, how to deal with the Banking system? How do you imagine the state Bank of the Russian Federation? and what war, with whose hands? and how instead of communism not come to something wrong? like the aforementioned flock of rams with party cards winked
                    1. +5
                      7 February 2019 18: 07
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      Is it not in 1956? Khrushchev’s report that the proletariat disappeared as a class.

                      In 1956, at the 20th Congress of the CPSU, there was a well-known and thoroughly false report by Khrushchev on the "Stalin's personality cult". But from the party program the thesis about the dictatorship of the proletariat, by the same Khrushchev, already at the 22nd Congress of the CPSU, was thrown out in 1961. What was it - cretinism or sabotage? How can you not understand that the state itself is the dictatorship of the ruling class? If not the dictatorship of the proletariat, then the dictatorship of whom? Penguins or what? Only the bourgeoisie. Here it is the counter-revolution and it went on for thirty years - until 1991. The revolution took about 18 years - from 1917 to 1935, and the counter-revolution took more - all thirty.

                      Of course, in order for delegates to perceive this counter-revolution at the congress in 1961 without moving, there should be work to select these delegates, to process them, etc. Those. the reactionary forces have already done the corresponding work, and have been doing it all five years - from 1956 to 1961.

                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      And then remember? - more socialism, more Glasnost! and almost immediately - about the fight against drunkenness and alcoholism, and again, immediately the abolition of the state monopoly on the alcohol trade! which is incompatible! More Socialism! - the slogan, "About Cooperation" - the LAW allowing individual SHOP !!! in a market economy to trade with foreign countries! this is when the assembly shop had the right to sell a turbine for a power plant for dollars! scoring on the PLAN !!!
                      Glasnost was understood as the abuse of the Socialist way of life and the "dirty linen" of Soviet life; any arguments in favor of socialism were interpreted as anti-perestroika, not in keeping with the spirit of the times. And already from about 1988, a course towards the revival of Capitalism in the USSR was openly taken.

                      That is exactly what happened, unfortunately.

                      One clarification. The policy of de jure capitalism did not take place in 1988, but a year earlier. The start was given by the Council of Ministers of the USSR adopted in February 1987 No. 160, 161 and 162 on the creation of cooperatives for consumer services, the production of consumer goods and in the field of public catering. This is de jure. And de facto much earlier.

                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      My question is how today, having studied the Capital of Marx, how to deal with the Banking system?

                      The burden is chosen by itself.

                      No way you alone can not fight with the banking system.

                      Unit! -
                      Who needs it ?!
                      Unit voice
                      thinner squeak.
                      Who will hear her? -
                      Is the wife!
                      And then
                      if not in the market,
                      but close ...

                      Bad man
                      when he is alone
                      Woe to one
                      one is not a warrior -
                      every hefty
                      him lord
                      and even weak
                      if two ...

                      Unit is nonsense
                      the unit is zero,
                      one -
                      even
                      very important -
                      will not raise
                      simple
                      five-hole log,
                      a fortiori
                      five-storey house.

                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      How do you imagine the state Bank of the Russian Federation?

                      I’m not a bank employee and I don’t know much about it.

                      If in bourgeois Russia, then it’s empty - no one will ask for opinions, no one will heed the advice ...
                      If you dream about how it will be in the future, socialist Russia, then, as it seems to me, the Stalinist system can be taken as the basis. This is a long conversation about how she looked. Google - very impressive. World-class specialists say that this is impossible. But it worked! And how it worked!
                      1. +1
                        7 February 2019 21: 33
                        Quote: McAr
                        I’m not a bank employee and I don’t know much about it.

                        if you understand Marxism, then you have no right not to understand the banking system. I will take the trouble to refresh your memory: Cost - labor embodied in the product. Money is the equivalent of labor, with the corresponding functions of exchange, accumulation ....
                        The main function of today's Central Bank is to maintain a kind of balance in the country between money in hand and Gold and Currency reserves of gold reserves, that is, if suddenly the entire population of the country wants to exchange their money for currency, then they should converge on top of the top. Such a system from the standpoint of value theory leads to the fact that in the country money is not the equivalent of labor but the equivalent of the dollar and the euro. that is, their faces. The exchange rate that jumps here and there is beneficial to an import manufacturer, pay attention! whatever you want to produce, it will be cheaper to bring from abroad. Labor has depreciated. Knowledge is not in demand! This is the result of the impact on the state of the current banking system!
                        Interception of financial initiative, by any socially oriented, political group, will undoubtedly lead to the financing of terrorism and tension for this group. Moreover, reasons to fight will climb from abroad.
                        Quote: McAr
                        If you dream about how it will be in the future, socialist Russia, then, as it seems to me, the Stalinist system can be taken as the basis.
                        Mikhail Suslov, in addition to being responsible for propaganda, under Stalin, in 48-53, was responsible for the party currency office. It was he who turned into a dogma a great idea in which we believe. It was he who introduced a zombie system and the processing of mass consciousness in the absence of initiative. Imagine the Party Congress and there is a SHABAN who should vote for the implementation of Genetic Engineering or for the Liberman system
                        If you are already dreaming, read A. Khodov's "Sharashka of the Popes" and its sequel, I don’t remember the name. There in the continuation of the real system of training the ELITE! I apologize for the instructive tone, but the word elite has a very good meaning. Just like the word aristocracy - the rule of the best. Arius means the best. People have defiled the word.
                        Quote: McAr
                        World-class specialists say that this is impossible. But it worked! And how it worked!

                        This can only work under the Stalin combination of moral qualities multiplied by working capacity and the internal value system squared by the Authority and divided by the date of death crying
                      2. +4
                        7 February 2019 21: 44
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        if you understand Marxism, then you have no right not to understand the banking system.

                        1. I'm just learning.
                        2. There is no banking system in the Russian Federation. There are settlement, money-changing and usurious offices, which are called banks.

                        And the calling of the banking system is to help production, this is its main purpose. In China, and not only there, there is a banking system, and loans for production are possible even with a negative interest. And under our refinancing rate, no production is possible. Only speculative transactions. And this is not an accident, not a Brownian movement of the "invisible hand of the market".
                      3. 0
                        7 February 2019 22: 14
                        Quote: McAr
                        1. I'm just learning.
                        2. There is no banking system in the Russian Federation. There are settlement, money-changing and usurious offices, which are called banks.

                        1. Have you definitely read Capital?
                        2. In your superficial answer, you, as it were, specifically missed the Exchanges and the Central Bank. Can't you see the system in financial flows?
                        if you don’t know where to go then you’ll find yourself somewhere not there .... like the USSR.
                      4. +4
                        7 February 2019 22: 23
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        1. Have you definitely read Capital?

                        Not all.

                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        2. In your superficial answer, you, as it were, specifically missed the Exchanges and the Central Bank. Can't you see the system in financial flows?

                        The Central Bank is a branch of the Fed. With all the consequences.
                        Exchanges are speculative organizations.
                        And you probably wanted to hear a formal definition?
                      5. 0
                        8 February 2019 08: 20
                        Quote: McAr
                        Far from all

                        whole and not necessary, enough basic concepts - cost, money functions, price, the main thing is to clearly understand the difference between value as a measure of labor and cost smile, further types of capital - financial industrial. How do I understand that I am a stronger Marxist than you?
                        Quote: McAr
                        The Central Bank is a branch of the Fed. With all the consequences.

                        And the ensuing consequence of your conclusion is the war against the colonialists, with all the ensuing soldier In this case, the media, the Internet is in their hands. So your poetic mood is only your mood, which has neither practical nor theoretical justification
                      6. +3
                        8 February 2019 10: 46
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        How do I understand that I am a stronger Marxist than you?

                        What shall we measure? Ruler or scales?

                        This is not a race. The more people study the works of Hegel, Marx, Lenin, Stalin, the better for the common cause.
                      7. 0
                        8 February 2019 19: 15
                        Quote: McAr
                        This is not a race. The more people study the works of Hegel, Marx, Lenin, Stalin, the better for the common cause.

                        I do not argue with this, but History rejected the Soviet version of the development of the ideas of Marx and Lenin. Therefore, the development of these very ideas is necessary! am
                        Quote: McAr
                        What shall we measure? Ruler or scales?
                        offer arguments. There are Facts, it is Truth. The analysis of facts leads to Knowledge, and Knowledge bridges the foundation of Truth on which the New Soviet Empire will be built !!! drinks
                      8. 0
                        8 February 2019 19: 41
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        History rejected the Soviet version of the development of the ideas of Marx and Lenin

                        Where did you get this that rejected? And what does the Soviet version mean?

                        If you recall the story, then why are you not making conclusions? Did the French revolution win immediately? But did not our Decembrists rest in Siberia? Let us then assert on this basis that history has rejected capitalism.

                        Whatever we say here, no matter what we come to, this will not affect historical processes. The victory of communism is inevitable, just as the change of primitive communism to slavery, slavery to feudalism, and feudalism to capitalism was inevitable. And every time it was progress, a qualitative, sharp leap, revolution. And every time the process was bloody. The birth of a child is also accompanied by blood loss and one has to put up with it, it cannot be otherwise.

                        When this happens is unknown. But all processes are accelerating, so perhaps it's not about centuries. And if this does not happen, this option cannot be ruled out, then everything will be very bad. To everyone.
                      9. +1
                        9 February 2019 22: 53
                        Quote: McAr
                        The victory of communism is inevitable, just as the change of primitive communism to slavery, slavery to feudalism, and feudalism to capitalism was inevitable. And every time it was progress, a qualitative, sharp leap, revolution. And every time the process was bloody.

                        I suggest you read a fascinating reading: Empire B or generation V Pelevin. There, the psychology of the owner of the slave is successfully described, and for some reason it becomes clear that with any system there will be vampires.
                        In general, all this classification is relative. It is convenient for determining the VALUES of human life. The slave was property, he was cherished and cherished, smile The peasant under feudalism was an appendage of the land and without it no crop was born, under capitalism the worker is an integral part of the machine tool and he also needs salaries for pensions and vacations. What's next? era of automated manufacturing? where no one needs a person? Yes, this is worse than slavery! There is no work, nobody needs it. What does Marxism say there?
                      10. 0
                        10 February 2019 08: 35
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        In general, all this classification is relative. It is convenient for determining the VALUES of human life. The slave was property, he was cherished and nurtured, the peasant under feudalism was an appendage of the land and without it there was no crop, under capitalism the worker is an integral part of the machine he also needs salaries for pensions and holidays. What's next? era of automated manufacturing? where no one needs a person? Yes, this is worse than slavery! There is no work, nobody needs it. What does Marxism say there?

                        True, worse than slavery. In the conditions of capitalism. Under the conditions of communism, nothing like this can be close. Work will be for everyone. Another question is that a working day can be 4 hours, and 2. Or even one.

                        Under capitalism, the era of robotization and automated production is the death of 90-99% of the world's population. No work - no salary, no salary - no consumption. Paradox - a robot can do anything and any number, but there is no one to consume it.

                        Under communism, the era of robotization and automated production brings development and prosperity to everyone. If a working day is a couple of hours, then a person can spend free time on self-development in what the soul lies to. Amazing will be an era! If Capital does not ruin everything ...
                      11. +1
                        11 February 2019 18: 42
                        And it seemed to me that Suslov is an intelligent man
                      12. +1
                        8 February 2019 10: 19
                        Quote: McAr

                        In 1956, at the 20th Congress of the CPSU, there was a well-known and thoroughly false report by Khrushchev on the "Stalin's personality cult."

                        Small clarification. The report you mentioned was made when the congress, in principle, had already completed its work. Some delegates even left. Khrushchev read out the report, there should have been a "debate on the report," but there was none. The congress did not pass any resolution on the report!
                      13. +1
                        8 February 2019 10: 41
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Small clarification. The report you mentioned was made when the congress, in principle, had already completed its work. Some delegates even left. Khrushchev read out the report, there should have been a "debate on the report," but there was none. The congress did not pass any resolution on the report!

                        Alaverdi! I mean, a little clarification. )))

                        I used to think so too. And this is not surprising - I, like many others, read about it more than once, and if they write this about it here and there, then that means it is. And relatively recently, thanks to Professor Popov, I learned that everything was a little different.

                        Khrushchev's report on the cult of personality was not the last at that congress. And the decision was also. Here, see for yourself (first three minutes):

                      14. +1
                        8 February 2019 11: 12
                        Quote: McAr

                        Khrushchev's report on the cult of personality was not the last at that congress. And the decision was also. Here, see for yourself (first three minutes):

                        If Comrade Popov read the verbatim report, he should have paid attention to - in the debate on the report were: 1. Ivanov, 2. Petrov, etc. and would say that. But he did not mention it. Why? Adopt a ruling without debate on the report? Is this possible?
                        But in the version that Khrushchev “squeezed” the report into the middle of the agenda of the congress, after the congress, into all the “papers”, I believe more. And for the first time the delegates read the "resolution" at home. Incidentally, it was not at all difficult to do this. Considering Khrushchev's active work on cleaning up archival documents, in which he does not look very good.
                  2. 0
                    7 February 2019 20: 16
                    Quote: McAr
                    In 1961, the thesis of the dictatorship of the proletariat was thrown out of the party’s program,

                    So the society became SOVIET, where everyone was working, and giving the proletariat some kind of privilege in the form of DICTATURE did not make sense - the proletariat, according to the FACT, lived better than the peasants and the working intelligentsia, and its number allowed it to delegate more members to the CPSU in order to defend its interests . What the hell dictatorship did he still need? Or will you deny it?
                    Quote: McAr
                    shot the workers in Novocherkassk for demands that are relevant even in the capitalist system.

                    This was a provocation, and for some reason it took place in the SOUTHERN region of the country, which traditionally lived richer than the rest of the country, which surprises those who knew how they live in the USSR in other regions. And here the abolition of the dictatorship of the proletariat, I do not understand.
                    Quote: McAr
                    What is this if not the beginning of recapitalization?

                    There was no talk of recapitalization then - the country did not get rid of the ruins, and therefore it was necessary to tighten their belts, but even in the sixties they switched to five days. In general, one cannot compare the situation of the sixties with the eighties - this is a completely different standard of living for workers.
                    Quote: McAr
                    Gorbachev perestroika remember with what slogans began?

                    Remember - with the coming to power of a man who even weakly pulled the first secretary of the regional committee.
                    1. +2
                      7 February 2019 20: 37
                      Quote: ccsr
                      So the society became SOVIET, where everyone was working, and giving the proletariat some kind of privilege in the form of DICTATURE did not make sense - the proletariat, according to the FACT, lived better than the peasants and the working intelligentsia, and its number allowed it to delegate more members to the CPSU in order to defend its interests . What the hell dictatorship did he still need?

                      1. Any state is a suppression machine, the dictatorship of the ruling class. There is no dictatorship, there is no state.
                      2. The interests of the proletariat include the interests of all — both the peasantry and the intelligentsia. Therefore, this is the most progressive class.
                      3. There will be no dictatorship of any class only when communism is in its final, completed phase. Then there will be no states.

                      Quote: ccsr
                      It was a provocation.

                      It was a spontaneous performance by the workers. Until recently, prices were reduced year by year, and then prices were suddenly cut, prices were raised, and besides, the counters were very empty.

                      Without regard to what it was - in a country where the ruling class all the way was the class of workers, workers were shot for the demands that are put forward all over the world. In capitalist countries, workers are not shot for this, but they have shot us. So yourself and think what it was.
                      1. +2
                        7 February 2019 21: 07
                        Quote: McAr
                        1. Any state is a suppression machine, the dictatorship of the ruling class. There is no dictatorship, there is no state.

                        I beg you - I don’t need to tell me the basics of Marxism-Leninism, especially since you are completely misinterpreting it if you don’t know that Marxism "is not a dogma, but a guide to action."
                        Quote: McAr
                        There will be no dictatorship of any class only when communism is in its final, completed phase. Then there will be no states.

                        As for the states, you remembered that very well - hardly true Leninists believed in such a whim, especially after the Great Patriotic War.
                        By the way, and if, as now, the classical proletariat has turned into a smaller layer of modern society - why on earth should it be given dictatorial powers? For what merits - tell this to those who saw how the miners with helmets pounded because of soap in front of the Council of Ministers building and demanded the resignation of the CPSU.

                        Quote: McAr
                        in a country where the ruling class was the working class all the way, workers were shot for the demands that are being put forward all over the world.

                        This shooting was accidental and its main purpose was to prevent unrest, which in that situation is absolutely legitimate, in my opinion, taking into account the disasters that suffered our country in the nineties, when hundreds of thousands of people died due to inaction of the authorities.
                        Quote: McAr
                        So yourself and think what it was.

                        I’ve been thinking about this for a long time, but I have drawn other conclusions.
                    2. +1
                      8 February 2019 19: 08
                      Regarding Novocherkassk, here I agree with you. A kind of murky provocation from both sides: the workers were deliberately wound up, while they themselves thought to sit aside and smoke and the authorities were in a hurry.
                      And the slogans at the beginning of perestroika were good: "five-year plan of efficiency and quality", "Gospriyemka", "democracy, glasnost." What is wrong if the product is of high quality? A fan from relatives, bought in the fall of 1985, and now it works like new. Democracy is the highest manifestation of the triumph of the people. Glasnost, and what is wrong with the fact that the people are right about the "undercover" plans of the leadership?
                      1. 0
                        8 February 2019 19: 34
                        Quote: vladcub
                        Regarding Novocherkassk, here I agree with you.

                        After everything that happened with the country, now, having life experience, any normal person understands that this is exactly what had to be done so that the unrest would not result in a bloody massacre. Of course this is a tragedy for everyone, but compared to the victims of the nineties, it does not look terrifying.
                2. +2
                  8 February 2019 10: 05
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Quote: McAr
                  If there was a rollback from socialism

                  rollback ...? wassat officially? fool the main question is which way to roll to ensure guaranteed socialism?
                  for me personally, the answer is clear, it’s not even a rejection of the ideas of Marx Lenin, it’s the banking system.

                  No. The point is the rejection of the dictatorship of the proletariat and the transition to the "state of the whole people"
                  1. +1
                    8 February 2019 19: 29
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    No. The point is the rejection of the dictatorship of the proletariat and the transition to the "state of the whole people"

                    these are words, air vibrations. In fact, I see the reason for the privileged position of the members of the Central Committee, their jurisdiction and lack of control arising under Khrushchev. From this, it began
            2. +4
              7 February 2019 11: 04
              Open on the Internet, done with us, and then look out the window and go outside. GO TO ALIEXPRESS AND FIND ANALOGU AT US. You will be very surprised.
              1. -1
                7 February 2019 11: 27
                Found and not one analogue with us.
                1. +2
                  7 February 2019 11: 30
                  Is there an analogue at Rossexpress?
          3. +3
            7 February 2019 11: 47
            Quote: McAr
            Quote: Puncher
            And the endless lines in stores forgot ...

            And it’s not so that the lines were long in 1984. Except for what deficit ...

            The vast majority, recalling the Soviet queues before 1987, for some reason forgets that we are always talking about products at prices 2-3 times lower than market prices. And at market prices, i.e. there were no queues at the market, at the bazaar. If now somewhere they began to sell products at prices three times lower than market prices, then there would be considerable queues. For example, a grocery supermarket "Zadarma" has opened in our village, because there are always queues at four cash desks. Although everything is cheaper by 15 percent on average. What would happen if everything became 200-300% cheaper?

            I would put 100 pluses, but I can’t, they don’t allow it. Therefore, only one.
          4. +6
            7 February 2019 13: 12
            Quote: McAr
            if now somewhere they began to sell products at prices three times lower than market prices, then considerable lines would have arisen

            Not that not small .. but just huge. In America there is such a show, it’s called Black Friday, this Friday supermarkets drop prices very seriously .. So the line takes a few days and there were even cases when people were killed in a crush .. Here you have the queue under capitalism .. and under socialism , for example, there were no queues in the bazaar, and you could buy everything ..
            1. +1
              7 February 2019 13: 53
              Quote: Svarog
              Not that not small .. but just huge. In America there is such a show, it’s called Black Friday, this Friday supermarkets drop prices very seriously .. So the line takes a few days and there were even cases when people were killed in a crush .. Here you have the queue under capitalism .. and under socialism , for example, there were no queues in the bazaar, and you could buy everything ..

              That's right!

              I am glad that we understand each other and think in unison. hi
          5. -1
            8 February 2019 13: 08
            Quote: McAr
            if they started selling products at prices three times lower than market prices, then there would be considerable queues

            An example is "Black Friday". An abomination in every respect!
        4. +3
          7 February 2019 11: 57
          Quote: Puncher
          And the endless lines in stores forgot ...

          Interestingly, how do you combine queues in stores with raids "why not at work"? Now it is difficult to imagine in the "age of universal employment", but if you remember, during working hours under the USSR the cities "died out", the streets were empty - everyone was at work. They stood in queues either at lunchtime, after work, or on weekends - in those days, "Ashanov" and "Okay" were not there. lol Although they have constant lines only now, not to the counter as in the USSR, but to the cashier.
          1. +1
            7 February 2019 19: 16
            Quote: Sovetskiy
            Interestingly, how do you combine queues in stores with raids "why not at work"?

            I remember that time. conversations were about questions, but I didn’t see it live
            1. +3
              7 February 2019 19: 21
              Quote: aybolyt678
              Quote: Sovetskiy
              Interestingly, how do you combine queues in stores with raids "why not at work"?

              I remember that time. conversations were about questions, but I didn’t see it live

              During working hours I was "asked" about this in the pub, but we had a good reason - vacation. fellow drinks
          2. 0
            8 February 2019 19: 24
            Quote: Sovetskiy
            I wonder how your lines in stores are combined with raids.

            add that it was not a system
        5. 0
          8 February 2019 18: 08
          Quote: Puncher
          And the endless lines in stores forgot ...


          You did not confuse the Adropov period with Gorbachev? And under Andropov, and under Chernenko, and under Brezhnev, of course, there were queues, but they can hardly be called endless.
      2. +12
        7 February 2019 07: 54
        Quote: Dead Day
        "why not at work?"

        The fact is that social and industrial discipline in Soviet society at that time, indeed, weakened, in various "organizations" there were many unnecessary positions, people in which literally toiled, as if to stretch the day until the evening, so they went to the cinema, shopping , or even just, in turn, did not go to work. And the necessity of these, the "organizations" themselves was highly questionable. I have no doubt that if Andropov had lived longer, most of them would have simply been dispersed.
        At the same time, there was a large shortage of labor at industrial enterprises, which significantly impeded the development of production.
        It was necessary to start somewhere? So they started with cinemas, streets, public places.

        This was the case in the army. In the headquarters, in all departments, there were a lot of ironed-out officers who did not know the "field", they beat their thumbs all day, and they fled from the personnel like the devil from incense, they hardly found a man for the position of company commander.
        1. 0
          7 February 2019 08: 21
          Quote: bistrov.
          various "organizations" appeared a lot of unnecessary positions, people on which literally toiled, as if to stretch the day until the evening,

          and how many research institutes that duplicated each other. and from which there was practically no sense. the states were inflated to disgrace.
          such a "specialist" would come to work, hang a jacket on a chair and go about his business. appeared before dinner, glowed in front of the boss, after dinner the same trick. before the end of the working day, the jacket was removed. everything, the day has passed, in the report card "8"
        2. +8
          7 February 2019 10: 24
          Pancake! Well, today’s tracing paper! Some have a back in soap, others have nothing to do! They added a brow to the desired position with a good salary, and he stumbles from idleness. But you can’t drive him out. He is the people whom you need! The more they talk about the past, the more often it looks like today! Psychology however! But the USSR lived for 70 years. Modernity will stretch its legs earlier. Today, after all, all the signs of the late USSR. Irreparable for how many years? Party membership is not a pass? How about the economy? Do not pull the pipes? Is it a pipe from a good life or from a bad one? How about technology? Do we sell them to the West or buy? AND! We take licenses! Yesterday? Ideas !? Who? The idea is one. It’s better there than ours, we need to move there faster! Why should we live in Russia?
        3. 0
          7 February 2019 15: 09
          Bystrov, let me disagree "do not beat the thumbs" garages were built. It was the beginning of the collapse of the Army. Yes, more, summer cottages !!!. It was something.
      3. +6
        7 February 2019 08: 33
        why not at work? "

        Good question! Really, why? Now this question is not asked, therefore, Russia is not the USSR.
        1. +1
          7 February 2019 09: 17
          Quote: Silvestr
          why not at work? "

          Good question! Really, why? Now this question is not asked, therefore, Russia is not the USSR.

          too, many come to work at their convenience ... nothing has changed. Mentality Damn
      4. BAI
        0
        7 February 2019 11: 39
        And I ran into a setup with phonograph records.
      5. +1
        7 February 2019 22: 32
        That's right, they also raided the shops. I don’t know how where, but in Moscow, not only the outdoor service hunted for truants, but also operas from the headquarters of the Office were attracted. Moreover, all the detainees were taken to local cops, and there they already figured out who was working where. The Moscow cops just howled from this, it became completely impossible to work. Then, about a week later, this and d and o t and zm stopped and it was officially announced that this was "a personal initiative of individual comrades and excesses on the ground." In general, everything is as usual. But the fact that by the time the working day ends, all the goods will be swept out of the shops, and the worker will have nothing to buy, “some local comrades” somehow did not think about it. Why, they had their own feeding troughs, closed to the overwhelming number of citizens of the country of "victorious socialism".

        But all this is true, lyrical memories of the past, and the worst thing that Andropov did was that he dragged Gorbachev with his fucking Raiska into the Politburo. Here we are stuck!
        1. 0
          8 February 2019 12: 12
          Quote: Sea Cat
          and the worst thing that Andropov did was that he dragged Gorbachev with his fucking Raiska into the Politburo. Here we are stuck!

          I do not think that this is the worst thing, because there were some things that the media did not always report, and the consequences were more tragic for the country. There are memoirs of eyewitnesses to the rule of Andropov, which tells about that time:
          Valery Legostaev
          GEBIST MAGNETIC Notes on Yu.V. Andropov
          ..... In a word, in those gloomy days, I sincerely shared the grief of the absolute majority of Soviet citizens over the death of Andropov, anxiously reflecting with everyone on the question: "What will happen now?" But this is only one side of my life experience at that time.
          The second, much more significant from the point of view of adjusting my understanding of the surrounding political reality, was that it was during the days of Andropov’s funeral that I first encountered facts that did not fit into the usual and, as it seemed to me, absolutely indisputable picture of events. From here, over the years, shoots of numerous doubts and suspicions began to sprout in my soul regarding both the personality of Yuri Vladimirovich and his true role in the fate of the Soviet peoples. The first startling revelation fell upon me when parting with the body of the late Secretary General in the Hall of Columns ....

          https://www.rulit.me/books/gebist-magneticheskij-zametki-o-yu-v-andropove-read-463096-1.html
        2. +1
          8 February 2019 13: 03
          Gorbachev became a member of the Politburo under Brezhnev, to some extent he inherited this post from Kulakov, who died suddenly. Kulakov was also the first secretary of the Stavropol Territory, then became a member of the Politburo and Secretary of the Central Committee. After him, the regional committee was led by Efremov, and then Gorbachev. Gorbachev repeated his path. Apparently, Suslov tested Kulakov and Gorbachev for his fellow countrymen (not by origin, but by work in the Stavropol Territory). And Gorbachev had a good relationship with andropov.
      6. 0
        8 February 2019 10: 37
        Quote: Dead Day
        from Andropov's reign, I only remember the Andropovka vodka and the round-ups in cinemas on the subject: "Why not at work?"

        "Cotton business", "Eliseevsky", "Azerbaijan business", "Georgian business". From that and died.
      7. -1
        8 February 2019 11: 47
        Quote: Dead Day
        from Andropov's reign, I only remember the Andropovka vodka and the round-ups in cinemas on the subject: "Why not at work?"

        Quote: Dead Day
        from Andropov's reign, I only remember the Andropovka vodka and the round-ups in cinemas on the subject: "Why not at work?"

        [Quote] [/ quote]
        Your Andropov helped Gorbatom come to power
      8. The comment was deleted.
      9. kig
        0
        12 February 2019 05: 39
        Quote: Dead Day
        I only remember vodka "Andropovka" and round-ups in cinemas


        And I remember something very close to schizophrenia, from the field of ideology. T-shirts with foreign inscriptions were forbidden - for example, the Soviet people, for the most part do not speak foreign languages, simply will not be able to appreciate what is written on their T-shirt. And what if anti-Soviet? In response, here and there, T-shirts began to appear with just such an inscription: "Nothing is written on my shirt." Forbidden take out abroad musical recordings of groups Time Machine, DDT, Alice. Nautilus.
    2. +3
      7 February 2019 06: 24
      Quote: 210ox
      to clean up

      The order was restored! And there was vodka -Andropovka!
      1. +3
        7 February 2019 09: 00
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        The order was restored! And there was vodka -Andropovka!

        Andropov - Suslov's henchman. And Suslov is a gray cardinal who set and removed Khrushchev and threw a stone at Stalin. Incidentally, he was in charge of propaganda in the USSR.
        1. -1
          8 February 2019 13: 05
          Not the worst person was. Although dogmatic. Unrestrained. At the same time, indeed, he was an opponent of the complete political rehabilitation of Stalin. And actually he was right about it,
          1. Fat
            -1
            9 February 2019 13: 06
            Quote: Sergej1972
            Not the worst person was. Although dogmatic. Unrestrained. At the same time, indeed, he was an opponent of the complete political rehabilitation of Stalin. And actually he was right about it,

            Well, not quite a dogma, quite a normal-minded politician. It is worth looking at the texts of his speeches and articles, but unfortunately VO does not allow placing a link to the review.
            February 9 - the day of the death of Yu.V. Andropov. "Last hope" of the USSR
            1. 0
              10 February 2019 20: 03
              I watched a newsreel of the celebration of the 60th anniversary of the October Revolution. Joint meeting of the Central Committee of the CPSU, Supreme Councils of the USSR and the RSFSR. He was led by Suslov. He had a peculiar Volga ooze talk.
      2. +3
        7 February 2019 09: 43
        There was EXTRA vodka:
        Eh
        Как
        It became
        Difficult
        Russian
        Alcoholic
        (it was expensive). drinks
        1. 0
          7 February 2019 10: 00
          Quote: alatanas
          There was EXTRA vodka:

          Under Andropov, vodka appeared, cheaper than existing, which was simply called VODKA, but the letters were located higher or lower, the previous one, like a crankshaft, it was sometimes called. It is decrypted simply:
          HERE
          BUT
          KIND
          WHAT
          ANDROPOV.
          Inexhaustible to fiction Russian people. His humor can not be killed under any circumstances. Unique people.
          1. -3
            7 February 2019 11: 00
            Quote: bistrov.
            When Andropov appeared vodka, cheaper than existing,

            and most importantly, they sold it not from 11:00, but from the opening of the store laughing
          2. +1
            8 February 2019 13: 06
            Another option: here he is kind Andropov.
    3. +7
      7 February 2019 06: 31
      Quote: 210ox
      But to restore order in the country was.


      History is a corrupt girl of any power who writes it for herself.

      And any historical event is food for the conclusions of historians from the personal position of each historian.

      It’s never possible to find out the truth, what and how it was, and even more so planned.

      This article, like any on a historical theme, is the author’s speculation and, moreover, not confirmed by anything ....
      1. +4
        7 February 2019 09: 15
        Quote: Titsen
        It’s never possible to find out the truth,

        You can find out the truth .. only is truth the truth? from true facts one can form an opinion but will it be true? for that there is a forum to compare facts and opinions.
        I am for the article.
    4. +7
      7 February 2019 08: 34
      Quote: 210ox
      from the same "economic experiment"

      What other economic experiment? - Do you have self-sufficiency and cost accounting? The elements of capitalism that caused the economy to skew towards a deficit? This is when cooperatives and individual workshops were bought at fixed prices and sold at market prices? And by the way a lot went abroad. Just information about this is not available.
      This experiment was the penultimate nail in the lid of the tomb of communism. The article is correct. But incomplete.
    5. +2
      7 February 2019 09: 14
      Quote: 210ox
      In reality, all this fits well with the plan of convergence with the West. Andropov created a strong negotiating position. The USSR, before merging with the West, showed its power so that the Soviet elite could achieve appropriate positions in the new world order. Thus, Andropov prepared the strongest position of Moscow in future negotiations with the leadership of the West. To have something to concede, while maintaining the basics. To scare the West, and then take advantage of its fear of the USSR, to carry out convergence on the most favorable conditions for the Soviet elite. Integrate Russia into the West in such a way as to maintain the position of the Soviet elite, so that it becomes a full part of the world elite, and not a colonial peripheral administration, as is customary in the Western world.

      I agree! So far-fetched that it would be necessary to write "Very likely ...." and the next premise is based on the assumption of the previous one! The fact that there was a MULTI-WALKER is 100%, but the ultimate goal was known to the selected circle of those admitted to the strategy. Perhaps what was planned under Andropov happened in 2000 with the coming to power of the GDP! with some correction, of course. Even in chess, it is not possible to predict 100% of the opponent's moves. And in global political games, add ecology, natural disasters, the death rate of players, the random move of an idiot (some Ukrainian politicians), etc., to the factor of unpredictability of actions of political figures.
      1. +2
        7 February 2019 10: 31
        Drawn or not, but with the version of the author I agree. Are there other versions? The arrival of GDP and Ukraine miscalculates. This is not an accident.
    6. 0
      7 February 2019 12: 15
      Quote: 210ox
      But I was in order to clean up the country. I remember very well how discipline and order began to be put in place in production, new business models were tested.

      All this is an illusion. Andropov’s personality is quite muddy. Starting from an origin that is not a vowel so far. It’s probably worth it to just take a closer look at the photographs of the young man of the First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Komsomol of the KFSSR ... Please tell me how a party apparatchik with such experience and experience, moreover, the Chairman of the KGB of the USSR (1967 - 1982) could see the whole GORBACHEV ??? Not only that, Gorbachev is an uproot and diligent student of Andropov!
    7. +3
      7 February 2019 12: 34
      Quote: 210ox
      I remember how to begin to discipline and order

      Well? Have you brought? I remember how it ended. Andropov is a very dark horse. Under him, institutions were created that substantiated what we live in. But this is not the main thing, but how and through what we came to this. Gorbi and Shevarnadze are Andropov.
    8. +2
      7 February 2019 12: 53
      As the version is very interesting, everything is logically arranged in a chain and reasoned. But I also have doubts that Andropov wanted to fit into the Western world. I think he wanted to shake and update the system.
    9. 0
      7 February 2019 17: 01
      Quote: 210ox
      I do not think that Andropov had an idea "to fit into the Western world" ... But there was order in the country. I remember very well how they began to impose discipline and order in production, new models of management were tested. The same "economic experiment"


      That's for sure. Andropov certainly wasn’t as simple as Gorbachev.
    10. 0
      7 February 2019 17: 29
      I do not think that Andropov had an idea "to fit into the Western world" ..


      The author here clearly went overboard ... He added "his understandings" ...
    11. +1
      8 February 2019 18: 25
      My mother, when Yu.V. I was sincerely saddened. At work, they said more than once: "Yu. V. Krutenko tightens the screws, but it cannot be otherwise: the people were getting pissed off and did not want to work."
      My opinion: Andropov is the only one who could save the Soviet Union!
      P.S
      The author consciously or not, but only mentions Russia and the question arises; Andropov only wanted to connect Russia with the West, and leave the remaining 14 republics in the same state?
  2. +5
    7 February 2019 06: 16
    Of course, our "elite" is no match for the western ... Backing vocalists .. Leader vocalists will not be ..
  3. +9
    7 February 2019 06: 22
    And where such infa about Andropov? Is there evidence?
    1. +3
      7 February 2019 11: 36
      Quote: Shurale
      And where such infa about Andropov? Is there evidence?

      an accident?
      there are a lot of such pictures from receptions and with hunting and on the podium
      1. +2
        7 February 2019 16: 40
        OOOOOO, yes, now everything is clear, I believe ...
        Do you have photos of flying saucers?
        1. +2
          7 February 2019 20: 55
          Quote: Shurale
          I believe ...
          Do you have photos of flying saucers?

          What are you interested in? Maybe you should ask Mikhail Suslov? who, in addition to managing ideology, also disposed of party currency?
          1. +2
            8 February 2019 12: 20
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Maybe you should ask Mikhail Suslov?

            I think that this man harmed the USSR more than Andropov and Gorbachev combined. But this is not a matter of currency, but of its ideological activity, which was so skeletal that it lost all common sense for the party. That is who should have been expelled from the party before Brezhnev, but dear Leonid Ilyich was too gentle for such actions.
            1. 0
              8 February 2019 13: 08
              Inert, not bone.
              1. 0
                8 February 2019 13: 23
                Quote: Sergej1972
                Inert, not bone.

                Ossification as a quality of personality - Inability to further development of the mind, personal growth, self-observation and self-improvement; the tendency to lose the mobility and flexibility of the mind, to become stuck in their usually negative habits and attitudes.
                1. -1
                  8 February 2019 15: 53
                  But it is written "inert", not "bone". Sluggish, inert thinking. Ushakov's dictionary: KOSNY1, inert, inert; (oblique, inert little use), inertly (book.). Impervious, committed to the familiar. Mind impenetrable by new ideas.
                  || Motionless, lazy. Inert lifestyle.
                  2.
                  KOSNY2, inert, inert (reg.). adj. to the braid 1. Inert ribbons.
                  3.
                  KOSNY3, inert, inert, and inert, inert, inert (region and special). adj. to the scythe 2. Inert tip. Inert steel.
                  1. 0
                    8 February 2019 18: 23
                    Quote: Sergej1972
                    But it is written "inert", not "bone".

                    You can write as you like, but more often the word "inert" is used in relation to language (tongue-tied), but the word "bone" is better suited to characterize the mind, in my opinion.
                    Often, mental stiffness deprives a person of flexibility in thinking.

                    https://www.inpearls.ru/
                    By the way, Ephraim’s dictionary interprets the word this way:
                    Ossified
                    Lost the ability to further development, improvement.

                    What is wrong with characterizing the human mind?
                    1. 0
                      9 February 2019 13: 14
                      Browse any spelling dictionary.
                      Everywhere "inert"! Bone refers to something in the bones, such as "bone meal".
                      1. 0
                        9 February 2019 19: 04
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        Browse any spelling dictionary.

                        I brought you the dictionary of Ephraim - do you ignore this dictionary?
                    2. 0
                      9 February 2019 13: 20
                      "Inarticulate and" inert "are not synonymous words. A person with inert thinking (by the way, yes, ossified) is not necessarily tongue-tied, and vice versa. By the way." Glass ", but at the same time" bottle. "Have you heard about the loss of sounds?
                      1. +1
                        9 February 2019 19: 07
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        Have you heard about the sound loss?

                        I understand that you have nothing to do, and I think it would be better if you start a separate topic where you tell everyone about the rules of the Russian language. I wish you success. Just remember that the word "bone" (ossified) in the definition of a person's mind is used, and not only by me.
        2. +1
          7 February 2019 22: 24
          Quote: Shurale
          Now everything is clear, I believe ...
          Do you have photos of flying saucers?

          and randomness is always an unidentified pattern
    2. +1
      7 February 2019 12: 36
      Quote: Shurale
      Is there evidence?

      It is obvious. The USSR was ruled not by the party, but by "organs" (the Cheka, the GPU, the NKVD ...) They are still in control.
      1. +1
        7 February 2019 20: 56
        Quote: iouris
        "bodies" (VChK, GPU, NKVD ...) They still manage.

        here it is not necessary am Now everything is controlled by the Banks.
        1. +1
          8 February 2019 00: 56
          Quote: aybolyt678
          Now everything is controlled by the Banks.

          And who runs the banks? Where did the banks get the dollars from in 1996, under what guarantees, who gave them, under which assets (land, minerals, political and military concessions ...?)
    3. -2
      7 February 2019 17: 33
      Quote: Shurale
      And where such infa about Andropov? Is there evidence?


      the author is clearly not friends with evidence ... The main thing is to blurt out, and the calculation that people don't need docks ....
      1. 0
        8 February 2019 00: 59
        Quote: lev1759
        Is there evidence?

        There are witnesses, and social facts, i.e. actions of political figures of the USSR.
  4. +8
    7 February 2019 06: 23
    The role of Gosha Liberman in the collapse of the USSR is absolutely not appreciated ... even located in the taboo zone. By maxim ... Soviet power ended in March 53
    1. +3
      7 February 2019 10: 38
      In general, Stalin acted in the right way! I did not take into account only meanness and greed. But is there a future for these hypostases?
  5. +2
    7 February 2019 06: 24
    If anything, Turkestan is a city in the south of Kazakhstan, and Turkmenistan is a country in central Asia.
    1. -1
      7 February 2019 08: 37
      Turkestan - Wikipedia

      Turkestan is the name of the original historical and geographical region of Central Eurasia and Central Asia, widely used in the 639th century and the beginning of the XNUMXth century. The earliest mention of the toponym "Turkestan" is contained in a document on paper XNUMX ...
      1. 0
        9 February 2019 13: 30
        One does not exclude the other. There are several settlements with the same name.
  6. +2
    7 February 2019 06: 30
    In some places it is true, especially about the "depopulation" and the "elite" ... And where does Andropov have to do with it?
  7. -1
    7 February 2019 06: 32
    As for Andropov, I do not quite agree. His mistake was that he made a mistake in Gorbachev, he did not have enough time, his health failed.
    1. +9
      7 February 2019 08: 31
      And he was definitely mistaken in Gorbachev ??? Chief of the KGB of the USSR ?!
      1. +1
        7 February 2019 09: 46
        unleash the potential in a year), as it turned out later, Gorbachev promised a lot, but did not fulfill
        1. +5
          7 February 2019 11: 10
          Well, Putin also promises a lot. How will we judge him?
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. -3
    7 February 2019 07: 00
    The author loves big words ....
    Russian world ...
    Russian civilization ....
    But could the author describe this phenomenon .. give a description.
    Often identifying this with Soviet goal-setting. With Soviet civilization. Which I believe is not true.
    1. +6
      7 February 2019 08: 07
      Do you have the same reaction to the words "American civilization" and "exclusive American nation"? I'm just curious.
      1. +3
        7 February 2019 08: 33
        Quote: g1washntwn
        Does the phrase "American civilization" and "exceptional American nation" evoke the same reaction in you?

        A normal reaction. A stable system. Resultant. Solve their problems. Others create.
        1. +1
          7 February 2019 11: 51
          Well, you can’t immediately turn up turnouts and passwords lol
    2. +4
      7 February 2019 11: 16
      And entry into the global economy and integration into it? What does it mean? Why not entry into the Russian world and civilization?
  10. +10
    7 February 2019 07: 01
    Andropov is a scoundrel, whose activities prepared the subsequent fall of the USSR. It was thanks to Andropov that Gorbachev came later, and it was his "order" that the majority of the population again began to associate communism with cane discipline! People were grabbed with him even when going out for lunch, and on day off or on vacation he had to take a certificate. Even when visiting the hospital, you had to remember to get a doctor's certificate that you are being treated! In general, those who admire Andropov now may immediately begin to admire private traders, whose staff work 10-12 hours for an average salary and are afraid of losing their job even because of the bad mood of the owner!
    1. +10
      7 February 2019 07: 59
      Quote: Horon
      Andropov bastard ...

      That's right. It was with him that the young reformers (Chubmys, Gaidar, etc.) were sent to study in Switzerland ...
      1. +10
        7 February 2019 08: 19
        Star A.N.Yakovleva ascended, the rapid career growth of the traitor Kalugin.
    2. Fat
      -2
      9 February 2019 13: 29
      Quote: Horon
      Andropov is a scoundrel, whose activities prepared the subsequent fall of the USSR. It was thanks to Andropov that Gorbachev came later, and it was his "order" that the majority of the population again began to associate communism with cane discipline! People were grabbed with him even when going out for lunch, and on day off or on vacation he had to take a certificate. Even when visiting the hospital, you had to remember to get a doctor's certificate that you are being treated! In general, who admires Andropov now,

      There were no angels born in the political bureau. Politics is a dirty business.
      campaign to strengthen labor discipline and order in the national economy. This campaign, despite some distortions, mainly related to excesses of performers, brought positive results: in the first quarter of 1983, an increase in production was achieved by 6%, for the whole of 1983 the increase in national income was 3,1%, and industrial production grew by 4%. At the same time, the fight against corruption and, as it was expressed then, against unearned incomes (the case of the Moscow Glavtorg, cotton, Medunov, Shchelokov cases) was intensified, which was positively received by the population.
    3. +1
      12 February 2019 11: 17
      If during working hours they caught business travelers, the certificate was stamped "do not pay for the business trip." What to take from him, he was taught to watch, catch and plant, what a state is and how it should work, he had no idea
      1. 0
        12 February 2019 13: 31
        Yes, I forgot about the problems of business travelers, I did not go myself, but yes - my friends were also not happy. Time passes, much is forgotten, and then those who try to rewrite history appear, making almost geniuses and heroes from bastards and frank amateurs, tyrants.
  11. 3vs
    -2
    7 February 2019 07: 07
    Comrade Samsonov gives his fabrications for truth.
    1. +7
      7 February 2019 07: 49
      An article in the "Opinions" section, what's wrong?
      1. 3vs
        -4
        7 February 2019 07: 51
        No need to pass off your fabrications as the point of view of other people, in particular Andropov and Putin.
        These comrades will have broader horizons and possession of information.
        1. +5
          7 February 2019 08: 04
          This, like yours, mine and in general any comment - naked IMHO. Your phrase is what you criticize. Sorry, but you yourself have carved your own comment. More attentive and fewer allegations.
          1. 3vs
            -4
            7 February 2019 08: 45
            I’m talking about the fact that you don’t need to talk about what Comrade Andropov or Putin thinks, the alien soul of the darkness.
            Speak from yourself.
    2. Fat
      0
      9 February 2019 13: 39
      Quote: 3vs
      Comrade Samsonov gives his fabrications for truth.

      I absolutely agree. But this is Comrade Samsonov’s personal opinion. True in style is very similar to Rezun. Documents are not used at all. And the texts of speeches and articles are not so difficult to find. Not at the rally, there would be time to read.
      Comrade Samsonov, please, you will collect dirt on Andropov (it is full) for the "continuation", at least take care of the appearance of reliability. And not by rumors and speculation.
  12. -1
    7 February 2019 07: 51
    Liberman - he is also in the guard of Liberman ... Ugh !!! Fucking PR man ... and the main grave digger of the Power ...
  13. +3
    7 February 2019 07: 57
    smile The article has a rational kernel. The author is well done, very dignified and lucidly stated his point of view. We are waiting for the second series .. hi
    1. AUL
      0
      7 February 2019 08: 27
      The author began for health, finished for peace!
  14. -1
    7 February 2019 08: 14
    The author didn’t even want to remember who he had devoted more time to meeting the heads of state. Andropov saw the threat of clans that had revived under Brezhnev. Yes, we had a lot of people who were free to leave their jobs on their own. These are bark beetles that brought the country to stagnation. The new secretary general fought not only with corruption, but also with street crime. If someone was not comfortable taking in three minutes I’ll help
    from work, then let him think about what works it is necessary to get a blessed signature from the official now. Those who had unjustified privileges under Brezhnev and raised a muddy wave against Andropov.
  15. +1
    7 February 2019 08: 20
    His own path, his own juche .... moss is good to rush around, have outlined, created an understandable plan of action, reforms and forward, to carry out everything in a consistent and according to plan. Yes, ideally, it is necessary to consult with those who are on the road, at least explain.
    Not every path will be good, but trampling on the spot, for sure, will lead nowhere and for nothing.
    1. Fat
      0
      9 February 2019 13: 44
      Quote: rocket757
      His own path, his own juche .... moss is good to rush around, have outlined, created an understandable plan of action, reforms and forward, to carry out everything in a consistent and according to plan. Yes, ideally, it is necessary to consult with those who are on the road, at least explain.
      Not every path will be good, but trampling on the spot, for sure, will lead nowhere and for nothing.

      At the June Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU of 1983, Yuri Vladimirovich expressed a very important and well-known phrase:

      Frankly speaking, we still do not know the proper degree of the society in which we live and work, we have not fully revealed its inherent patterns, especially economic ones. Therefore, they are forced to act, so to speak, empirically, in a very irrational way of trial and error.
  16. 0
    7 February 2019 08: 20
    Auto RU: to consider the role of personality in the context of history is a thankless and practically hopeless occupation. All the more so - some one specific personality, without a comprehensive analysis of external factors, only from one point of view, etc. Attempts to discern in this single personality the presence of downright divine possibilities of influencing the development of history are usually subjected to special criticism. Hopefully, the sequel will reveal other "external factors", environment, etc.
  17. +4
    7 February 2019 08: 25
    .
    the Russian "elite" is the "Russian mafia", oligarch thieves, corrupt officials,

    Isn’t that so? There is little doubt about this
  18. -1
    7 February 2019 08: 39
    "Andropov's plan" is a fight against parasitism.
    "Putin's Plan" is a fight against the working class.
  19. -1
    7 February 2019 08: 53
    At that time, apparently, there was a struggle within the elites, Andropov was removed precisely because he took up order abruptly (no one doubted that he was removed like Chernenko), people grumbled in the kitchens about the tightened nuts, but they hoped that he and he will put things in order at the top, make the "elite" work, a man from the KGB with a strong hand, as we remember him, about sending Chubais to his board to study abroad - a controversial question was he FOR this? The article is controversial, I saw an attempt not to describe history, but peremptorily hang all the dogs on Andropov, they hang dogs on Gorbachev, and they are right. The sabotage of the economy may have begun at that time, but not by them. He was just trying to put things in order, and ordinary people saw it.
  20. -1
    7 February 2019 08: 56
    It is worth remembering that until the de-industrialization of 1990-2000, Russia-USSR was still the second planet economy with advanced industries and huge potential for their development.

    This noodle can be hung on the ears of young people who were born after 1990.
    In the USSR, there was world-class science, skilled designers, but Soviet consumers always got the same thing - a degraded model of a copied outdated western counterpart.
    The main reason for the constant technical lag of the USSR from the West was that Soviet development was based on the idea of ​​cloning (borrowing) ideas and technologies. Cloning will always be a catch-up, but never an advancing mode of development.
    The USSR bought products and copied them, but the difficulty was that there were no components .....

    Today, Russia took into account the mistakes of the USSR and buys products along with manufacturing technology.
    For example, Russia purchased a license for the manufacture of Forpost drones in Israel: technical documentation, technological equipment, instrumentation stands, simulator complexes, as well as training by the Israeli side of the Russian personnel for the operation of UAVs and their warranty service.
    By the way, the USSR in the field of microelectronics was 20-30 years behind the West, today the situation has not improved.
    Russia bought a microelectronic in the West, today due to sanctions - in China, with appropriate quality.
    1. +3
      7 February 2019 11: 25
      Russia bought a license, and China starts producing drones with a carrying capacity of 1,5 tons.
      1. 0
        7 February 2019 16: 32
        Russia has been producing Forpost drones for several years ....
    2. Fat
      +1
      9 February 2019 13: 53
      Quote: alta
      By the way, the USSR in the field of microelectronics was 20-30 years behind the West, today the situation has not improved.
      Russia bought a microelectronic in the West, today due to sanctions - in China, with appropriate quality.

      NOT BY THE way. These words are exactly from ignorance subject. walked almost nose-to-nose until the mid-80s. After i386, they began to quickly fall behind (autumn 1985). Just Gorbachev’s times
  21. +3
    7 February 2019 08: 58
    Alexander Samsonov
    Articles from this series:
    Death of the Red Empire

    Already looking at this, you begin to doubt the reliability of the material. Although I myself remember well that period.
    Having come to power, Yuri Vladimirovich began to confidently restore order in the country. First of all, his attention was focused on senior officials immersed in the luxury and nobility, among them was Shchelokov. Having blamed the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for abuses, Andropov removed him from his post. Nikolai Shchelokov understood that by simply dismissing him he would not get off and, without waiting for a severe punishment, shot himself. Then his widow, Svetlana Shchelokova, decided to avenge her husband. Andropov had one peculiarity: he always went up in the elevator to his floor only one. But on the fateful evening, February 19, 1983, Svetlana Shchelokova, putting her browning in her purse, waited for the General Secretary and a bullet flew into the elevator after him. Even the guard was at a loss. Moreover, Andropov, looking intently into Shchelokova’s eyes, was silent and pressed the button of his floor. As soon as the elevator began to rise, shots rang out. Shchelokova was a doctor by training, she was in charge of the hospital. She knew very well about Yuri Vladimirovich’s sick kidney and was aiming at her. After the elevator stopped on the sixth floor, Andropov crawled to his door and called the security guard. And Svetlana Shchelokova went up to her apartment and fired a bullet into the temple from the same browning. Yuri Vladimirovich lived after a mortal wound for another year. He died on February 9, 1984.
    The apartment of Yuri Andropov with an area of ​​155 square meters was auctioned for $ 1.
    So he ruled that country for almost a year, the second year of his reign went to treatment and torment. He was one of the coolest Secretary Generals! And in the article it is not clear what is written ...
    1. 0
      7 February 2019 10: 31
      What kind of nonsense are you talking about ??? Shchelokov’s wife shot herself a little less than a year before Shchelokov’s suicide.
      1. 0
        7 February 2019 11: 30
        They all needed to shoot themselves at the top of the CPSU in the early 80s.
      2. 0
        7 February 2019 14: 58
        Quote: serg0527
        What kind of nonsense are you talking about ??? Shchelokov’s wife shot herself a little less than a year before Shchelokov’s suicide.

        https://news.rambler.ru/other/38756809-pochemu-pokonchila-soboy-zhena-ministra-mvd-schelokova/
    2. +2
      7 February 2019 11: 35
      Quote: KARAKURT15
      Having blamed the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for abuses, Andropov removed him from his post.

      Everything was somewhat different there. Even under Brezhnev, the country in fact began an unofficial confrontation between the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the KGB. Under Shchelokov, the process of decomposition of the police began, into which people with a criminal past even began to enter the service, which earlier could not be allowed. The Ministry of Internal Affairs began to plunge into corruption. Andropov, as the head of the KGB, knew about the brothel that was going on in the Ministry of Internal Affairs and in its highest echelons of power, but to go against Shchelokov meant to go against Brezhnev. In 1982, the confrontation between the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs reached the point where it was already ready to spill over into open armed confrontation. A documentary was even filmed about this from archival documents. Brezhnev’s death changed the situation. Andropov, having come to power, began a purge of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which also included quite decent policemen. Under Andropov, the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs finally parted ways. People who have worked at the Ministry of Internal Affairs for at least some time have been denied access to state structures forever. security. This principle is still valid.
    3. +5
      7 February 2019 13: 34
      Quote: KARAKURT15
      Having come to power, Yuri Vladimirovich began to confidently restore order in the country. First of all, his attention was directed to high-ranking officials mired in luxury and nobility, among them was Shchelokov. Having blamed the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for abuses, Andropov removed him from his post.

      Shchelokov was removed as part of the long-standing confrontation between the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which escalated especially in the early 80s. The infamous "murder at Zhdanovskaya" was a turning point, when the police of the line department beat to death a major of state security - the deputy head of the secretariat of the KGB of the USSR. office and the prosecutor’s office took up the Ministry of Internal Affairs closely.

      By the way, it is significant that the major was dragged to the department in order to rob him of the holiday set with scarce products.
  22. +6
    7 February 2019 09: 06
    Whatever the Andropov does, good or bad (you can dig for a long time), it was he who became the guides to the power of Gorbachev, Shevarnadze and Yakovlev - the main characters in the collapse of the Union, which means he himself is a scoundrel! I do not believe that these three (it is clear that there were more actors there, but these three were always in sight and actively, to the best of their ability, contributed to the defeat of the USSR in the Cold War and the further collapse of the Great Country) were able to outwit their boss.
    1. 0
      7 February 2019 12: 14
      What Lieberman did not have in his lifetime ... he completed from the other world with the hands of Gorbachev and Yeltsin ... What did not have time for Yeltsin ... well, then the algorithm is more than clear ... In 2000 there was a seven-banker ... in 2018 ... algorithm ... well, it just sticks out on the surface
      1. Fat
        0
        9 February 2019 14: 02
        Quote: plotnikov561956
        What did not have time for Lieberman during his life .. What did not have time Yeltsin... well, the algorithm is more than clear ...

        .... Then Eltsin ... Be consistent in your conviction ... No.
  23. +1
    7 February 2019 09: 25
    Under Andropov, the Armed Forces and special services received tremendous support and began to work in full. Cleaning of "garbage" began. And then Yuri Vladimirovich's health deteriorated sharply. You should read the memoirs of Savvik Shuster, the moment when in Afghanistan he was part of the American-French special services (doctors without borders). Under Yu.V. they, together with the Mujahideen, began to be mercilessly destroyed from the air. They realized that the war was lost. Andropov's death saved them. After that, agreements were made.
  24. +1
    7 February 2019 09: 37
    The first two paragraphs are written about modern Russia, and not about the Union.
  25. 0
    7 February 2019 09: 55
    Samsonov Alexander! I share your views. You are well done ! Thanks for the truthful article! soldier
  26. +3
    7 February 2019 10: 58
    "Under Andropov, vodka appeared, cheaper than the existing one, which was simply called VODKA, but the letters were located above or below, the previous one, like a crankshaft, it was sometimes called that. It was simply deciphered:
    HERE
    BUT
    KIND
    WHAT
    ANDROPOV. "
    There was another option:
    HERE
    SHE IS
    KINDNESS
    COMMUNIST
    ANDROPOVA
  27. +3
    7 February 2019 11: 12
    Good article.
    And then many can not get rid of the illusion of "corrupt Gorbachev". The surrender of the USSR was being prepared long before it. In fact, since 1956 (XX Congress of the CPSU), the building of communism in the USSR ceases and a "creeping" counter-revolution begins.
  28. +2
    7 February 2019 11: 45
    In particular, in Turkestan (Central Asia), obviously, a wave of “black Islam” will soon arise, and jihadists will sweep away completely the rotten township regimes of feudal lords and khans. Russia will receive the "southern front".




  29. -1
    7 February 2019 12: 09
    Andropov is an ambiguous figure ..., there are enough rumors, the failures of Soviet policy in the 70s and 80s did not take place from scratch, it was the willful decision of the authorities that the Soviet informatics and electronics were eliminated, they ordered to copy American technology, and he was surprisingly easy to excuse himself, - the uprising in Hungary, the Prague Spring, Poland, "Khrushchev" in the organs or his follower ....
    1. 0
      8 February 2019 13: 18
      With a little closer examination, Yuri Andropov looks like the political heir to Nikita Khrushchev, only more educated, thoughtful, dodgy and cruel. The godfather of the Gorbachev group of moles / renegades / skins (classification by layers from top to bottom).
      1. 0
        8 February 2019 13: 25
        There are a lot of epithets, but in fact it’s true ... although it’s hard to call him heir ... rather colleagues and accomplices, Gorbachev-- Andropov’s protege, Kroty-- yes, about the rest - it is doubtful
    2. Fat
      0
      9 February 2019 14: 45
      Quote: wooja
      Soviet computer science

      Soviet computer science at school as an object appeared in 1983, under Andropov.
      Quote: wooja
      ordered to copy American technology,

      One episode - 1971 I copied the architecture of IBM 360, but the element base was its own. This decision was made due to the complete absence of unified domestic operating systems, and computers were needed en masse. Have you ever written programs in binary codes and entered them using plugs? If so, then you will realize that there were very few specialists. EU operators could be trained in vocational schools, and a programmer - a higher education, 5 years however ...
      1. 0
        9 February 2019 14: 54
        Yes, I had to, but this is only one side of the problem ... the question of the role of Andropov and the authorities is much more complicated, and the domestic operating system is still being written ......
  30. +1
    7 February 2019 12: 30
    The Russian elite, which was part of the world elite, was destroyed a hundred years ago. Nobody will be able to join the "world elite". It is not a fact that the Russian state has a valuable, intellectual and organizational resource that allows it to survive. It is necessary to revise the disposable.
    1. Fat
      0
      9 February 2019 14: 55
      Quote: iouris
      It is necessary to conduct an audit of the disposable.

      His new ones need to be raised urgently, this is being done. The truth is an old joke about a Chinese family ...
      A Chinese family stands at the fanza's door and looks at the very dirty kids playing in the dust.
      Wife to husband: Children are dirty! Husband to wife: what to do? Wash these? Or will we make new ones?
  31. +3
    7 February 2019 12: 34
    To be continued ...

    ..... In the spring of 1967, the State Security Committee received a new chairman. The KGB was led by Yuri Andropov. Yuri Vladimirovich remained in this post for 15 years, longer than any other colleague in Soviet times. It was under him that the KGB began to have great influence in the country. Andropov created the so-called Fifth Directorate, which controlled the intelligentsia and prevented any dissent. In fact, without the approval of the State Security Committee, not a single important assignment could pass in all areas - from the ministry to industry, from art to sports ...

    Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin ...
    I would like to continue the article on the topic "The role of the KGB in the events of the late 80s, early 90s."
    In the light of those events, it seems that the USSR State Security Committee ceased to exist not in 1991, but with the arrival of Gorbachev. Or maybe, as they like to say now: "everything was not so simple"? lol
  32. +4
    7 February 2019 12: 35
    The problem is that the masters of the West do not see their equal in the Russian “elite”.
    And this is the funniest thing. What did Soviet bureaucrats count on ?! After all, the Western elite are surviving centuries of battles clans of stunning organizers and exceptional specialists in public administration! Otherwise, they would never have managed to keep afloat such a defective system as capitalism for so many years.
    And what about the Soviet clerks and party apparatchiks ?! After all, the socialist system began to corrode because it was they who controlled the enormous forces at their disposal, worse and worse! Couldn't handle managing the economy! And they thought that they were recognized as equal ?! Well, let's look around. Where are they? What's with them? How did they "flourish" under aspirational capitalism? That's it ...
    Western elites consider our elites to be thieves and bandits, stupid, aggressive and irreconcilable because they are. Who wants to do business with someone who at any moment can decide to kill you for another cash jackpot? Who needs this? So that...
    1. +2
      7 February 2019 13: 59
      Quote: Mikhail3
      And this is the funniest thing. What did Soviet bureaucrats count on ?!

      They hoped to tear the USSR and rule in the county principalities at their pleasure. Not realizing that in the new world, their experience in hardware struggle and their connections, which were their main resource, will prove to be simply useless. And that their authority and influence do not apply to them, but to the place in the state that they occupied: where some of the XNUMXth secretaries of the USSR Foreign Ministry are carefully listened, the foreign minister of the independent fragment of the USSR will simply be sent away.
      Quote: Mikhail3
      And the Soviet binoculars and party apparatchiks ?!

      Well ... they had a wealth of survival experience in pack of comrades. In which the slightest mistake could cost not only a career, but also life.
      By the way, some of the apparatchiks have nevertheless figured out what they are heading for. And she began to derail state property even before the collapse of the USSR, picking up the tidbits for herself. Let us recall the unforgettable Viktor Stepanovich Chernomyrdin, who, in a film about the history of Gazprom, boasted nothing hesitating about how he, with the help of a well-hung tongue and connections, under the pretext "inefficiencies in direct government management of the gas industry", received the necessary signatures in Moscow under the document that turned his ministry into a concern under his leadership.
  33. +1
    7 February 2019 13: 48
    The masters of the West do not need any Russia - neither monarchist-tsarist, nor Soviet, nor democratic-pro-Western. The West needs only a colony, the riches of Russia ... that the masters of the West do not see their equal in the Russian "elite".

    The problem is that our "elite" will never get it! Otherwise, just out of a sense of self-preservation, they would not have rushed to the West, they would have already sold their villas in the West and taken their families back to Russia!
  34. +1
    7 February 2019 14: 05
    250 million people lived in the Union, about one million could be attributed to the "elite" .... but now? ... there are 7 officials for one hard worker ... I remember how the director of the convoy covered the shed with galvanized steel on the garden plot, so the OBKhSS became interested: what are these incomes?. so Komarov (surname such) at night closed the iron with slate ... from so Andropov destroyed the Russian civilization
  35. +1
    7 February 2019 15: 05
    Quote: Prometey
    Quote: KARAKURT15
    Having blamed the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for abuses, Andropov removed him from his post.

    People who have worked at the Ministry of Internal Affairs for at least some time have been denied access to state structures forever. security. This principle is still valid.

    This principle exists in all self-respecting state security structures and in all countries of the world.
    1. +1
      7 February 2019 20: 23
      Quote: KARAKURT15
      This principle exists in all self-respecting state security structures and in all countries of the world.

      Have you heard anything about Litvinenko?
  36. +1
    7 February 2019 15: 32
    I am writing to the editors. I believe that the publication in Voennoye Obozreniye of articles on political topics, moreover so short, superficial, but with categorical conclusions, does not correspond to the purpose of the site and only leads to stupid and empty discussions during the discussion.
  37. 0
    7 February 2019 15: 58
    In the USSR, unfortunately, the changes began first with tightening the screws during the Andropov period, and then with changes in the political system during the Gorbachev period, which led to the breakdown of the entire socialist way of life and the rout of the state.

    Why at the beginning of perestroika, in the second half of the 80s, there were slogans: "More socialism!", "All power to the Soviets!" Because the Soviets were a decoration of the power of the party elite, already then overgrown with privileges and long ceased to live according to the socialist principle: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."
    The paradox of that time: proportional representation of all layers of Soviet society at all levels of the legislature was enshrined in law. It would seem that the highest form of democracy, but in fact ALL candidates were carefully selected at party committees at various levels and stupid "approval" reigned in the Soviets at all levels, and the people were actually deprived of the elementary right to free choice.
    De jure proclaimed the construction of a classless society, and de facto Soviet society was stratified into the people who formed and even formed their OWN INTERESTS - a kind of "protoclass" consisting of the party and Soviet elite, including their servants and the press, with the Soviet Union being completely politically powerless and deprived of voting rights people, including ordinary members of the CPSU.
    This very “protoclass” lacked only the elimination of the purely decorative “power” of the Soviets and “legitimized” the transfer of national ownership into his hands in order to transform into a full-fledged class of the bourgeoisie, which he did in the 90s.
    1. -1
      7 February 2019 19: 24
      Quote: alex_a_54
      The paradox of that time: proportional representation of all layers of Soviet society at all levels of the legislature was enshrined in law. It would seem that the highest form of democracy, but in fact ALL candidates were carefully selected at party committees at various levels and stupid "approvals" reigned in the Soviets at all levels, and the people were actually deprived of elementary law

      Why don't you consider external management? after all, the decaying party appraisers simply would never have gotten their hands on the distribution of the AIDS-info newspaper. Or who printed Solzhenitsyn? his books, as well as the party literature of that time, were not in short supply! Does this not remind you of the soft power of control and public opinion?
    2. +1
      8 February 2019 13: 15
      Once, during the election campaign to the local councils, the father, the party organizer of the collective farm, came from the district committee to a moronic order to nominate a non-partisan Chuvash. And this is in the outback of Central Russia, where the Chuvashs have never been seen.)
  38. -2
    7 February 2019 17: 01
    a healthy work ethic is dying, which at all times said: if you want to live well, work hard and hard

    - just killed. It was the Soviet government that killed the work ethic with the principle "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
    1. -2
      7 February 2019 22: 17
      Quote: Zakonnik
      "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

      physical abilities and physiological needs ??? so this is a prison !!!
    2. +1
      7 February 2019 22: 20
      That, the Soviet government ruined everything that it could ditch, I agree. But under "developed socialism", and we, as we were told from above, grew up in it, the slogan was somewhat different: From each according to his ability, to each according to his work! ", if only I'm not mistaken, I heard it a long time ago. And "to each according to his needs" - this is already from communism built somewhere. hi
      1. +1
        8 February 2019 13: 22
        You write correctly. And then we survived, you know .. Some debaters do not even remember the actual slogans of socialism, but there, in the debate ... About "according to needs" - even the common people laughed at this, nobody took it seriously.
  39. +3
    7 February 2019 17: 03
    Quote: McAr
    supermarket "Zadarma", so there are always queues at four cash desks. Although everything is cheaper by 15 percent on average. What would happen if everything became 200-300% cheaper?

    We have “thrown out” TVs in our advertising campaign, 30% cheaper. You should have seen it: at the checkout there was a crowd of about a hundred people, they were just starting to climb over their heads.
    And the dude trying to steal 2 boxes ... This is something! And you are "queues" ... laughing
  40. 0
    7 February 2019 23: 03
    the author does not understand anything - in politics or in economics - a complete layman. Nonsense. Stop writing nonsense.
  41. +1
    7 February 2019 23: 35
    [i] The Russian people (both in the Russian Federation and in Ukraine) are dying. / i]
    And what is the population of Western countries growing and multiplying ???
    1. 0
      8 February 2019 08: 27
      Quote: tihonmarine
      And what is the population of Western countries growing and multiplying ???

      and grows and multiplies, thanks to Allah! La il il il Alla ve Mohammed Rasul Alla !!
  42. +4
    8 February 2019 00: 30
    "Andropov's Plan" as part of a strategy for the destruction of Russian civilization


    For 70 years, traitors and pests prevented the party from making the Soviet people happy.

    As soon as Lenin died, it turned out that the second person in the party, Comrade Trotsky, was a traitor. Kamenev, Zinoviev, Bukharin and Stalin overthrew Trotsky and expelled from the USSR.

    But after a couple of years it turned out that Kamenev, Zinoviev and Bukharin are also enemies and pests. Then the valiant comrade Yezhov shot them.

    But after a couple of years it turned out that Yezhov was not a comrade, but an ordinary traitor and an enemy agent. And Yezhov shot Beria.

    After the death of Stalin, everyone realized that Beria was also a traitor. Then Zhukov overthrew and shot Beria.
    But soon Khrushchev learned that Zhukov was an enemy and a conspirator. And he sent Zhukov into exile. And a little later it was revealed that Stalin himself was an enemy, a pest and a traitor. And with it, and most of the Politburo. Then Stalin was taken out of the mausoleum, and the political bureau and Shepilov, who joined them, were dispersed by honest party members, led by Khrushchev.

    Several years passed and it turned out that Khrushchev was a voluntarist, a rogue, an adventurer and an enemy. Then Brezhnev sent Khrushchev to retire.

    Soon Brezhnev died, and it turned out that he was a senile, a pest and a cause of stagnation.

    Then there were two senility, which no one had time to remember, because they died like flies.

    But then a young, energetic Gorbachev came to power. And it turned out that the whole party was a party of pests and enemies, but he will correct everything now.

    It was then that the USSR collapsed. And Gorbachev turned out to be an enemy and a traitor.

    Oh these enemies. But if it weren’t for them, then they would definitely have built communism!
    1. 0
      8 February 2019 08: 42
      Quote: Stalevar79
      Oh these enemies. Now, if not for them

      You are a pessimist, however, you wrote such an opus, you’re just like a satiricon! Can do otherwise? for example, to praise Nicholas 2, Lenin, Stalin, Brezhnev .... and do something, at least try?
      1. +1
        8 February 2019 17: 14
        Quote: aybolyt678
        to do something, at least try?
        But weren't you tired of being an experimental rabbit? Mabud on mice would be checked first.
  43. 0
    8 February 2019 01: 52
    Quote: Andrey Shch
    "Under Andropov, vodka appeared, cheaper than the existing one, which was simply called VODKA, but the letters were located above or below, the previous one, like a crankshaft, it was sometimes called that. It was simply deciphered:
    HERE
    BUT
    KIND
    WHAT
    ANDROPOV. "
    There was another option:
    HERE
    SHE IS
    KINDNESS
    COMMUNIST
    ANDROPOVA


    "Lord Alcoholics"! Refuses you liver memory.
    "Crankshaft" and "Andropovka" are vodka labels of different design.
    Accordingly, vodka was produced at different times.

    Left - "Crankshaft". On the right - "Andropovka"

  44. -2
    8 February 2019 13: 10
    Whatever one may say, but the future privatizers and "democrats" got their career start under Andropov. Take, for example, the pseudo-combine operator Gorby, - Andropov personally dragged him to Moscow. Elderly K.U. Chernenko was supposed to separate the political goats from the lambs, but could not, or rather did not have time. And the "creative" "Gorbachevites" rushed towards the "market", some for a fool, some on instructions from outside, and some out of selfish interest: some good methods of economic reform were declared, but were brought to the point of absurdity, with reverse exhaust, while the main work was discrediting the economic system of the USSR as a whole - this work was more than successful. The author is 5 points out of 5! Russia is not the West, and not the East .. Russia is the North (in civilizational terms). And yet, there is no alternative to Socialism. I will repeat like Scipio Africanus, anywhere, at any time of the day or night.
  45. -3
    8 February 2019 17: 46
    the Soviet elite becomes a full part of the global elite

    Andropov was ***, of course. And not since 1982, but, hike, from the War yet. Here are the details of his recruitment: https://sdelka-roman.livejournal.com/2883.html, and here is the continuation of their "affairs": https://sdelka-roman.livejournal.com/808.html
  46. +1
    9 February 2019 00: 02
    And as soon as the USSR and the socialist camp laid down their arms and collapsed, so the masters of the West began to quickly abandon their former indulgences, and the middle class began to rapidly disappear. Only the rich and many categories of the poor and the poor remain. Hence the recent social unrest in Greece or France, the growing hatred of migrants and the popularity of nationalist sentiments. The middle and petty bourgeoisie of Western civilization has come under attack; Western globalization and total liberalization are killing it.


    And as soon as the USSR and the socialist camp laid down their arms and collapsed ... So the middle class of the Chinese comrades immediately took up the banner. We still live on a round planet in the shape of a ball, and not on a truncated one. There are civilizations besides European.

    Rigidly Andropov reacted to the downed Korean Boeing in 1983.
    - In terms of? Everything was in order with our pilot, no one was punishing his commanders either. Maybe only he himself got a little bit sick.

    Interestingly, during the reign of Putin and Medvedev, Moscow repeated Andropov’s erroneous strategy. The Kremlin refused to fulfill the role of simply a semi-colonial administration, as was the case in the 1990s. The creation of “united Europe - from Lisbon to Vladivostok” took a course.

    Putin can’t change anything dramatically. He received power by mutual agreement from Yeltsin.

    But, so that no one would speak, but IIASA was created back in 1972, and stagnation was not observed then. Volda Putin acted in films, and critics of Khrushchev supported Brezhnev mainly.
    So everything develops logically and evolutionarily. And in the end, the MIPSA boys, merging with the “wild” dissidents, redistributed the power-wealth in the interests of a certain part of the elites, which very skillfully managed to graze the golden calf over the past millennia in the vastness of Western civilization, burdened with Avramic traditions.
  47. 0
    9 February 2019 12: 23
    There is an interesting book by retired intelligence officer Mikhail Lyubimov "Operation Calvary" - a secret restructuring plan. An interesting look at perestroika as the brainchild of Yu.V. Andropov.
  48. 0
    9 February 2019 18: 15
    Samsonov wrote everything correctly, it is
  49. +1
    9 February 2019 22: 09
    Poor Annropov! Do not forget, Sergey, that Andropov has opened the largest anti-corruption cases. It was he who continued the struggle of Stalin with the corrupt, decaying party and state. apparatus. He did not have enough life. What could solve the apparatus problem in this Soviet world? The Constitution of 1936. It was adopted, but did not work, Stalin did not have enough life. And let's not forget that neither Stalin nor Andropov possessed the necessary fullness of power. Power in the USSR has never, as now, been stable. The fight against Trotskyism and other matters, the Congress of winners, the assassination of Kirov, the repression of the 37th, the Leningrad affair, the assassination of Stalin, the assassination of Beria, the removal of Malenkov, Zhukov, others, then Khrushchev, etc.
  50. +2
    11 February 2019 17: 00
    Which of the leaders has made the greatest contribution to the development of the country over the past 100 years?
    1. Vladimir Lenin
    8,5%

    2. Joseph Stalin
    64,6%

    3. Nikita Khrushchev
    2,1%
    4. Leonid Brezhnev
    8,3%

    5. Yuri Andropov
    1,7%
    6. Konstantin Chernenko
    0,4%
    7. Mikhail Gorbachev
    1,5%
    8. Boris Yeltsin
    1,1%
    9. Vladimir Putin
    11,1%

    10. Dmitry Medvedev
    0,8%
    _________________________
    In principle, everything is correct. And it's pointless to argue with this !!! "The name of Russia" is Stalin! And those who are trying to fight it ... are liars, shape-shifters and traitors. My opinion.
  51. 0
    13 February 2019 12: 26
    this couldn't happen
  52. 0
    13 February 2019 16: 28
    The author did not write anything new about a certain Andropov plan. And this fiction grows from the publication in the newspaper Top Secret in 1995 No. 2 of an article by retired KGB colonel Mikhail Lyubimy. This colonel said that in 1983 Andropov signed the secret “Golgotha” plan. It provided for the liquidation of socialism and the USSR and the subsequent restoration of the Soviet system on a new basis. The plan included four stages:

    1. Systematic collapse of the USSR.

    2. Coup d'etat and the introduction of a spontaneous market in the economy.

    3. Increasing chaos in the country in order to cause massive public discontent and nostalgia for the USSR.

    4. People's revolution leading to the restoration of the socialist system.

    The incentive for Andropov to put forward such a plan, according to Lyubimov, was the realization of the fact that the existing socialist system had turned into the complete opposite of its declared goals and values. The CPSU has discredited itself, and it is necessary to start building socialism again. And to do this, it is necessary to show the people such a repulsive capitalist alternative so that they themselves massively want the restoration of the Soviet system. The article caused a furious response from the public, but in the next, third issue of “Top Secret” for the same year, Lyubimov’s confession was published that he was “joking.” His article was pure literary fiction, just like spy detective stories. And now, years later, the author pulls this nonsense out of mothballs and tries to foist it on us under the guise of his wise research and, most importantly, draws far-reaching conclusions based on outright lies. It’s not respectable to hang blatant lies on the readers’ ears; we’re not that uneducated and forgettable.
  53. +1
    13 February 2019 18: 24
    Yes, the dual citizenship of our propagandist-TV presenters, the children of Peskov and Putin, their offshore companies and real estate in NATO countries, the thousand-fold gap in salaries and the carefully built vertical of corruption and laudatory television stories speaks volumes. Terrible hypocrisy, troubled times... And regarding Greece, France and the dying Baltic states: NOBODY is coming to us from there in droves (not even Russians!) and will not go (except for those bought by Monson and De Pardieu), unlike the times of Peter the Great... No one has yet come up with a better Western system of checks and balances, built on free elections and independent journalism.
    1. 0
      13 February 2019 19: 30
      Quote: Denis 2019
      unlike Peter's times... No one has yet come up with a better Western system of checks and balances, built on free elections and independent journalism.

      Peter spent all his education money on foreign specialists. Because there weren’t any of our own. Stalin did roughly the same thing.
      regarding costs and balances - that time is over. The trouble is that no one has come up with a better idea than the Stalinist system, but there are no more Stalins!
      1. 0
        13 February 2019 21: 10
        But here’s a question: Would you specifically like to talk with your wife in a low voice in the kitchen about affairs in the country, have one of your parents in exile/camp and prove that you had nothing in common with the treacherous ideas of your son, who told his student friends an anecdote about mustachioed cockroach? And don’t say that these are all Gorbachev’s propaganda tales: I had the opportunity to talk with eyewitnesses of those years, and the Butovo training ground with the Levashovsky cemetery did not arise out of nowhere... And so, yes: of course it was great under Stalin, the builders of communism! And from the “too smart” in 5-6 years of prison camps, “normal” people turned out (if they survive
  54. 0
    18 February 2019 16: 46
    Superficial anti-science nonsense! We, those who lived then... and next to Andropov, know little about him. Yuri Vladimirovich did not have time to truly reveal himself, either he really died, or he was killed, and even then the truth was not comprehended!
    Yes and with t.z. communism... We didn’t have any “elites” in the Union! Yes, there was no one hundred percent, universal equality in the Union, that’s why it is the first phase of communism - socialism! But also Comrade Khrushchev did not retire to his own villa in Bali, but to a modest state dacha!
  55. 0
    8 May 2019 15: 29
    This trick, 30 years ago: mixing truth, facts with lies to manipulate the people, will no longer work. The purpose of what was written comes down to one thing: we stole and squandered everything, start working again, and with enthusiasm! There are no more naive people in our country; they ended under Brezhnev.

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