Titanium scandal at the aircraft factory

172
Revived military acceptance distinguished. Fake certificates for metal were detected at VASO, the Voronezh Aircraft Building Association.

Back in October last year, representatives of the military acceptance of the KLA (United Aircraft Building Corporation) stated that it is worth stopping the acceptance of the aircraft and carry out an inspection.





And so, the test is in full swing, and, apparently, its results will be criminal cases. So a source from the military representatives told me. The work is underway, but unfortunately there are already results.

What is the point? The bottom line is that the structures of the aircraft, which were produced at the Voronezh enterprise, were found parts and components made of non-certified metal. Including aviation titanium.

Some media said they already have copies of documents confirming the problem with the metal, but so far no one has published anything. But the fact that the problem is exactly the place to be.

Military representatives confirmed that fake certificates were found “in sufficient quantities to suspend acceptance of the plant’s products”.

I translate into a normal language: insolent to the extreme.

In the factory environment, different numbers are whispered, from 300 (minimum) to 750 (maximum). It says only that there were a lot of fakes.

Well, the test is on, apparently, after the VP, the TFR also connects (it's time, yes). And in the spring, apparently, and landing will begin.

What is bothering you?

And it is disturbing that ALL VASO products are being made exclusively for the Ministry of Defense today. Passenger liners from Voronezh have sunk into oblivion, the only exception was the aircraft for Putin and by order of Cuba.



Interestingly, what about the presidential sides, they also inserted a non-standard one? I would have thought about it in the Russia squadron. There is not one IL-96-300 there ... Delivered, as it turned out.

Today at VASO they are trying to somehow finish the party with An-148. This is actually a fallen Russian-Ukrainian project, as the name implies. But finish.

Customer - VKS RF.

Further. Prepare for the first flight of the IL-112. New military transporter light class.

Further. Huge production areas allow you to take part in the “Russian Lego” “Sukhoi Superjet”. For him, too, make some kind of design.

Well, the cherry on the cake is the manufacture of parts and designs for the IL-76MD-90A (heavy-class transporter) and MC-21.

Actually, almost the whole range of non-combat aircraft. It’s good that at least Su and MiG somehow remained on the sidelines.

And so honest (there are, as you can see, such comrades), the military representatives discover that for several years VASO has been purchasing metal billets, including titanium ones, from “a number of different suppliers”.

And this is done, of course, on a weighty scale, the casting on VASO is notable. Yes, and in terms of everything else, the plant is not offended, so that metal always came to him on the carriages.

What is a "different suppliers" - everything is simple. Intermediaries, the essence of which is solely to increase the price of metal and kickbacks to anyone. This is not to surprise anyone today, is not it?

But then begins the criminality of the purest water.

The copies of the certificates submitted by the suppliers were presented to the manufacturer, the leading corporation “VSMPO-AVISMA”. And the corporation found the certificates fake. More precisely, the official response was listed as "not corresponding to the originals."

I translate. Again.

Metal taken anywhere, but not from the manufacturer. Resale, third-party manufacturers and so on. The main thing - titanium for aircraft was not intended.

Here, of course, the relevant authorities should ask uncomfortable questions first and foremost. about. Director of the plant Puzdyrev Aleksey Yuryevich. As responsible for everything that happens in the enterprise.

But the structures subject to a commercial director, it would be necessary to "wool" in great detail. Especially the procurement department. Clearly, there is a desire to bring somewhere profit prevails over common sense.

In the meantime, acceptance of work carried out in Voronezh by the Il-112В, An-148-100, Il-96-300 aircraft, as well as by the elements of the Dry Superjet-100 (RRJ), Il-76MD-90А aircraft, and the 39H, and the AH, and the AH, and the AH, 21, and X-NNXX aircraft. .

And rightly so, this is probably the only way to prevent a series of catastrophes caused by an elementary desire to earn some money from someone in the plant’s management structure.

There is no other way to explain the purchase of “aviation titanium” and “aviation aluminum” not from the manufacturer (and do not tell me about the volumes, VASO just does not build hang-gliders, VSMPO would not refuse), but on the side.

Titanium. Well, yes, great metal for big planes. Strong as steel, but half lighter. Heavier than aluminum on 57%, but stronger than twice. The perfect "winged metal".

And we make a very high-quality titanium. Otherwise, the "Boeing" and "Airbus" would not be bought here. Plus, of course, the price.

But what is clear for Boeing is not clear for Ilyushin (VASO is included in the Ilyushin system). To the Americans, metal from VSMPO is what it takes, and give ours the “other”. Cleaner, better quality, probably. And more expensive.

Naturally, all of these qualities relate to titanium conditional, produced by all standards of metallurgical production that meets technical requirements. Tested for strength, durability and everything else.

That, in fact, must confirm the certificate of the manufacturer. The manufacturer, issuing a certificate, guarantees the properties of the metal, which are spelled out in it: strength, corrosion resistance, purity.

It’s hard to say now that for several years they have been putting airplanes in Voronezh.

But the military representatives quite legitimately questioned the quality of the titanium with all the ensuing consequences.

And when they began to "cut wood", then not just flew chips.

Not only the examination of metals (not one hundred), but also the examination of the procurement activities of VASO were carried out. And at the same time and several similar companies from the structure of the KLA. Just in case.

The Ministry of Industry and Trade, which conducted its own investigation, instantly joined the inter-departmental quarrel. And the Ministry of Industry and Trade announced its own vision of the picture of what is happening.

There was even an extended session on recommendations for aviation enterprises. Well, there is laughter through tears, because in all seriousness the Ministry of Industry and Trade issued a recommendation to purchase only certified materials from manufacturers for the creation of aviation equipment.

What else could advise the ministerial? Just this. Buy proven metal from the manufacturer. Fortunately, no one puts obstacles.

But the procurement statistics announced by the Ministry of Industry and Trade should have made everyone think.

VASO (and not only VASO, by the way, in the past few years has significantly reduced the purchase of titanium from the main manufacturer VSMPO and switched to numerous intermediaries.

Intermediaries counted more than a dozen. And here, too, all is not well, if such a word can be applied at all. Well, it would be if someone just bought large batches of titanium from VSMPO, and then sold them at a more expensive price in small batches to factories.

This option also has a place to be, it is not entirely clear how, then, with tenders and tenders for the purchase, apparently, everything was fake.

But then why fake certificates?

A fake certificates are needed to cover the same titanium from another manufacturer. Apparently, the amount of metal purchased from VSMPO and sold through intermediaries has not converged. Sold more than bought.

Also familiar topic. We bought 100 tons of “pure” and 200 tons of “dirty”. Covered all the documents - and more.

Apparently, it makes sense to look towards the Chinese factories for the production of titanium. There are six of them.

So far, only the fact that the Soviet system for recording aircraft parts is still alive and working is consoling. So, it is really possible to establish where the "left" titan went.

Yes, those deposits of "left" titanium, which were found on VASO, can either be returned or subjected to comprehensive checks and examinations for compliance. And there it is further to decide whether to use or not.

But the question is: what about the details that are already on the planes?

It is clear that in the United States or elsewhere, there can generally recall all airplanes. But then in the US ...

It seems that there is a decision to increase the number of inspections of these parts "during the operation of aircraft." It is clear, paying special attention to the strength characteristics of products.

Well, so-so, to be honest.

I don’t know how Putin will fly, for example, knowing that in his IL-96-300 (RA6023) there are parts made of “left titanium”? Considering that these are important and responsible supports and brackets?

It is clear that Putin will be replaced first and foremost, regardless of costs. This is still the first person ... Replaced during the very first maintenance work. In the meantime, and so flies.

In general, the case is ... It is clear that under the Soviet regime it would not even be a “landing”, it would be a firing squad. But now times are different, so it’s hard to say how it will all end.

But the fact that we have come down to counterfeit at defense enterprises, says a lot. It is definitely worth thinking about such things as the normal organization of the procurement of raw materials and components at enterprises of both the military-industrial complex and strategic enterprises as a whole. This is not only aircraft factories may concern, but many others.

But the most important thing is the human factor.

How to organize the work of supply and control services, systems of production and economic security, acceptance (not military, even here, thank God, everything is in order), so you can not be afraid for the quality of the products that determine the country's defense capability?

And we have? And our storekeeper is to blame for the rocket that was snapped up on takeoff, the purchasing manager who wanted to fly to Thailand for the second time - that the landing gear of the president’s plane on landing would fall off? ..

Definitely: sunk.

It is clear that this is not the 1937 year, but I think that if Putin really does have something to do with his plane, then the issue with the article on confiscation will be resolved instantly.

Actually, from European meetings we were almost everywhere exposed, is there any point in playing democracy? There's no point. People frankly lose the coast and begins to lawlessness.

Perhaps the bracket from the left titanium on the presidential plane will help to quickly address the issue.

In reality, for the country only benefit would be.
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172 comments
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  1. +14
    4 February 2019 04: 42
    Yeah! And what can you do if we have such a system? Here, "point" control will not solve anything and you will not intimidate with landings.winked
    1. +36
      4 February 2019 05: 00
      What actually happens: "effective management" fussed in advance for a small share, the engineer closed their eyes, the heads of the shops, like, did not know, the foreman did not delve into it, but the worker, just not to be fired ... That is, it was formed, as Zheglov said: "criminal community, popularly referred to as a gang ' And they’ll begin to sort it out, it’s headed by everything, some sort of senator who tears his shirt on his chest every day, speaking angrily speaking from the rostrum: "For the Motherland! For Stalin ... that is, for Putin!"
      To shoot? The whole plant staff on the bunk? More precisely, Preobrazhensky and can not be said about the devastation in the heads of people ...
      1. +11
        4 February 2019 05: 11
        To shoot? The whole plant staff on the bunk? More precisely, Preobrazhensky and can not be said about the devastation in the heads of people ...

        Which is easier ... to shoot the entire plant ... and who will produce the aircraft?
        We’ll hire new ones ... in a couple of years and they will have to be shot.
        But the problem will still not be solved because it is of a systemic nature ... it will not work to change the system because it is necessary to change the state structure of Russia ... in general, nothing good.
        Since the time of Tsarist Russia, this has been going on.
        1. +12
          4 February 2019 05: 14
          I’m talking about this - devastation must go through people's heads! What would you root for, for the quality! That you can’t do this!
          1. +11
            4 February 2019 05: 48
            The trouble is that we have a category of "switchmen" who, unfortunately, find themselves at the bottom of this "chain".
          2. +2
            4 February 2019 07: 55
            ... cut is sacred ..
            1. +1
              4 February 2019 09: 08
              And who knows, in our country Avisma is the only titanium producer?
              1. +2
                5 February 2019 14: 23
                The supply department definitely hits! Or maybe the commercial director was in the know .. Usually the chain reaches the top, especially when it comes to good orders, then kickbacks from intermediaries can be very impressive. And as a rule, the head of the supply department shares with the commercial.
                That's how all the large enterprises work for us, unfortunately (especially with state participation. When will these thieves get to?
          3. +9
            4 February 2019 09: 38
            Quote: Finches
            devastation must go through people's heads!

            Populist slogan ... no more ... what "people" ???? Do the people have a "type"? wassat
            So the fish NEVER rotted .... from the "tail".
          4. +5
            4 February 2019 11: 49
            It’s all for the cause, and so are ill ..... senators with six classes of education, security services such as, for example, Gazprom past which calmly drag out 30 billion, etc ...
            1. +1
              7 February 2019 18: 57
              But why by? Not even past.
          5. +9
            4 February 2019 16: 53
            I’m talking about this - devastation must go through people's heads! What would you root for, for the quality! That you can’t do this!
            You are straight captain Obvious. Could you tell me why this "devastation" "should go"? Why such a fright? Will our "effective managers" suddenly wake up conscience? Or maybe a genetic mutation will occur among the owners of factories / newspapers / steamers? Do you remind you of Marx's words about capital and 300% profit? As long as these same percentages loom on the horizon, nothing will change ... Even if there is a threat of landing, shooting, and burning at the stake, there will always be a frostbitten one ready to take the risk ...
            And the means of fighting against this is simple - you need to teach everyone from early childhood that money is not the main thing, that the main thing is the public good and the cause you serve, etc. In general, to return to the ideology of communism ... Until then, all the indignant cries of "How long?" - useless shaking of air ...
        2. +18
          4 February 2019 07: 38
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Which is easier ... to shoot the entire plant ... and who will produce the aircraft?

          what does the plant have to do with it?
          The plant works from the materials that it was supplied to, not knowing about its counterfeiting.
          There are quite specific culprits[b] [/ b] - those who forged the certificates and those who accepted them at the factory.
          1. +2
            4 February 2019 09: 39
            Quote: Olgovich
            There are quite specific culprits of [b] [/ b] -te who forged certificates

            And those who .. "buy" "components" for prices "much lower than the factory price", and through the "gaskets" carry out for the plant .. "overpriced" ... can start with them? wink
            1. +2
              4 February 2019 10: 51
              Quote: Random
              And those who .. "buy" "components" for prices "much lower than the factory price", and through the "gaskets" carry out for the plant .. "overpriced" ... can start with them?

              This is another aspect of the question: we are talking about quality now. A barrier for counterfeiting is the department of the plant, which "turned a blind" to the falsified certificates.
              Although. I think that they are genuine, but refer only to part of the production, and they were "covered" with much larger volumes of titanium
              1. +3
                6 February 2019 23: 11
                Is it possible to suspend hot branding for a second?
                Quote: Olgovich
                This is another aspect of the question: we are talking about quality now.

                Let's talk about him. Everything is somewhat funnier. The article is just terrifying. Here fighter jets and bombers will immediately pour down from the sky, breaking up along the line of bad spare parts on the fly! And why? Maybe titanium and other metals do not meet the specifications? Or laboratories that constantly check the properties of metal and the parameters of workpieces and finished parts, issued negative conclusions? Well, re-read the article. And-and-and ?!
                And not a hitch. There is nothing of the kind. With metals ... ta da-m ... it's all right. They don’t have enough ... pieces of paper! But this is many times more understandable. How now in Russia receive these same certificates? Maybe with the help of those same laboratories? Or are there some invisible and imperceptible institutions that strictly and disinterestedly conduct multilateral studies, after which they issue an Unbreakable Certificate that instantly calms the equally crystal-clear Military Acceptance imported directly from 1944 of the year?
                I'm sorry but there is no. For many decades, not a single controlling body in our country has, in principle, controlled anything at all. For the simple reason that you have to spend money on control, and this vile control will still find something wrong. So the essence of the angry article is as simple as three rubles. The plant did not want to once again allocate a mountain of money past the legal registration for the PURCHASE of these same certificates. In many respects, because the estimates of it began to be checked much more severely, and the line "for bribing organizations issuing certificates" in the price tag could not be found.
                So the plant simply checked with its own means (which it has enough) the quality of metals and put them into business. In response, those who were offended by the best senses, certificate issuers blocked his work. Do not flatter yourself. It's not about improving quality. It’s just that people’s hands are threatening to float away with the usual multi-million dollar freebie. And that’s all.
                1. +3
                  7 February 2019 08: 07
                  Interesting at you calculation Michael, showed VERY POSSIBLE hidden layer ... drinks The fact that the plant EASY can check the quality of the metal supplied to it in terms of strength (weight, conductive heat, etc.) CHARACTERISTICS - YES EASY, if there is a factory technical laboratory and the corresponding personnel - he wrote the test software for such a department (there is something to remember ) And is there really a defective titanium? In the late 80s, titanium roll sheets lay on the floor of the workshop as linoleum. wassat
                  We wondered ... these third-party drones all-checking with hefty spoons and huge hawalis now divorced like dirt and before howling about allegedly counterfeiting, it would be nice to check it for compliance with the declared characteristics. And yelling at us about and without reason is like blowing your nose.
        3. +2
          4 February 2019 09: 02
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Which is easier ... to shoot the entire plant ... and who will produce the aircraft?

          The methodology of developing a separate production is described in detail in Zlotnikov's novel "Armageddon".
          1. +3
            4 February 2019 09: 38
            The cannibalistic technique. And where to get those who were supermen there?
          2. Fat
            +1
            4 February 2019 09: 59
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            The methodology of developing a separate production is described in detail in Zlotnikov's novel "Armageddon".

            It was easier for Roman Zlotnikov to fantasize; his FRAMES of managers were ready, unlike the real situation in our Russia. Alas, no one will cry over the torn slot of a screw.
            1. +2
              4 February 2019 19: 59
              Quote: Thick
              he had the PERSONNEL of managers were ready, unlike the real situation in our Russia.

              It's not about ready-made personnel, but about desire, i.e. in the goal. Russia has everything for the development of the economy, people, resources, and methods. I have no desire. I think so because the goals of "our" government are different. hi
        4. +17
          4 February 2019 10: 41
          [Quote][quote] [quote = The same LEKHA
          Since the time of tsarist Russia, this stretches. [/ Quote]
          [/ Quote]
          I don’t know how about tsarist Russia, but during the years of Socialism, this certainly didn’t happen, I once talked about making Buran, and how I kicked a knee under the back with the consequences for an extra hole in a product that was choked in tyhara. Today we have what we deserve, once we live in wild capitalism with a Russian accent, then we get what we have, and recently it once again confirms that the state has let its entire industry drift into the hands of crazy capital, as a result there is no pivot on which you can lean on and all the cries and wonders about the left titanium do not look clumsy, the example of UAZ is the same picture, each workshop is a private shop that sometimes can’t agree among themselves. What awaits us? Judging by Putin’s statement, there is no way to return to socialism, that is, you should not gratify yourself with old memories of the country's former industrial power, but this mess of capital also does not give the desired results, (rockets fall, docks sink, planes fall, and much more) means that something is wrong and it is time to change the system, or the elite with the system. Where are we going, why, for whose sake? There is no purpose for either the country or the population, as this substance hangs out in the hole trying to please the west. We have optimized, so to speak.
        5. FID
          +4
          4 February 2019 11: 13
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Which is easier ... to shoot the entire plant ... and who will produce the aircraft?

          And who produces the planes? They are not there ... there are not even simple riveters, not to mention the "specialists" ... The leadership (managers) will have to shoot ...
          1. 0
            5 February 2019 13: 29
            oh well planes. let's get closer about home. When will they start to fall? Of the only reliable ones, as a civil engineer, I consider the brick Khrushchev reliable even in a nuclear explosion.
        6. -6
          4 February 2019 19: 18
          where does the state system. on the face of the fact of forgery of documentation and obtaining monetary benefits and all. this is in all countries when the management of companies (of any form of ownership) begins to stir up to increase pocket money. the fact that it surfaced is good, who should be attracted. At the same time, they will conduct the entire financial audit of the enterprise. As they say, there are no healthy people who are poorly diagnosed, even if there isn’t enough proof to land on this episode, then after a good check they will be found on other episodes.
          The state system of the Russian Federation does not make sense to change (because of nonsense) it is necessary to change the performers - that is, those who work in this system. We have enough law enforcement agencies of different levels to search for unsuitable performers. So it’s their job to seek and give evidence, and the court’s job is to give punishment according to the available evidence.
          And idle chatter that it is necessary to change the whole system is to shkolota witnesses of the holiness of bulk lozhniki ... they like such nonsense, for which it is only incomprehensible to exchange for bread, soap ...
          In general, let the case be brought to court first, and then we'll see what actually happened, because we usually like magazine whores to inflate an elephant out of a fly - that is, by simple reason, lying from three boxes.
        7. +1
          4 February 2019 23: 22
          Vorё! Remember the "Cotton Business", or cans in "sprat in tomato" full of black caviar ... Indestructible!
        8. 0
          6 February 2019 15: 58
          Why the whole factory? Only the commercial director and all who are responsible for the procurement. And before shooting to interrogate with addiction.
      2. 0
        4 February 2019 05: 14
        but it was necessary that it was like the Mongols under Genghis Khan - he was guilty of one, a dozen were punished bully
        1. 0
          4 February 2019 05: 23
          So you can recall the army of the Roman Empire, the same discipline was at a level when decimation pressed on top of the legionnaire - the execution of every tenth by lot, as the highest measure of disciplinary punishment! laughing
          1. +1
            4 February 2019 05: 26
            support drinks
            it seems that for some offenses there they were publicly flogged with whips. it was considered a shameful punishment
        2. -1
          4 February 2019 07: 57
          ..there were no Mongols during the time of Genghis Khan = Yuri-George Dolgoruky ..
          1. +5
            4 February 2019 08: 32
            Quote: ver_
            ..there were no Mongols during the time of Genghis Khan = Yuri-George Dolgoruky ..

            See the gopher? No. And he is, gopher then. laughing .
            1. +1
              4 February 2019 09: 36
              ..Do not look through someone else’s glasses .. - vision deteriorates ..
            2. 0
              5 February 2019 04: 22
              ... in a fool and boots * have * ..
      3. +4
        4 February 2019 09: 35
        Quote: Finches
        "effective management" fussed in advance for a small share

        Well, first of all, not so "small" bully secondly, this "problem" is already "1000 years in .. lunch" wassat (just look at how the head of the supply department "lives" (well, how ours, for example, ... "elected people", "senators" and others .. "owners of the national property" bully and that’s strange .. practically no one asks any questions wassat with rare exceptions wassat , but at all "ramzan" you will not ... lol ).
        Well ... that's why they try to take all "small" components from "intermediaries" (and the intermediaries' task is to "provide" ... "quality documents")
        I hope there is no need to give examples .. they are already ... "on everyone's lips."
        "In a bundle, as a rule" ... "the entire top" + the heads of the shops, but all the rest ... starting with the "foreman" ... "feed" from another ... "trough". bully
        Quote: Finches
        And they’ll start to figure it out, it’s all headed by some sort of senator

        There are not "senators", but their own ... "departmental bosses" .. and so EVERYWHERE ..... "SYSTEM" .. however. recourse
        1. +1
          9 February 2019 01: 09
          Our ensign "nachvesh" was the first to buy an eight ... And then the "nachprod" nine. The brigade commander did not have a deputy. And this was in those years when the accounting was still really not the same as "quite before." So it was like that before.
      4. -2
        4 February 2019 10: 52
        Quote: Finches
        What actually happens: "effective management" fussed in advance for a small share, the engineer closed their eyes, the heads of the shops, like, did not know, the foreman did not delve into it, but the worker, just not to be fired ... That is, it was formed, as Zheglov said: "criminal community, popularly referred to as a gang ' And they’ll begin to sort it out, it’s headed by everything, some sort of senator who tears his shirt on his chest every day, speaking angrily speaking from the rostrum: "For the Motherland! For Stalin ... that is, for Putin!"
        To shoot? The whole plant staff on the bunk? More precisely, Preobrazhensky and can not be said about the devastation in the heads of people ...

        Something, dear, you have gotten in earnest. Do you even know what your responsibilities include the above employees? Which of them is responsible for checking certified metal or not? And how can they verify this? After all, according to the documents he is certified.
        So much for the "criminal community"! And you immediately, without thinking, - shoot, plant !!!
      5. +2
        5 February 2019 10: 12
        Yes, those deposits of "left" titanium, which were found on VASO, can either be returned or subjected to comprehensive checks and examinations for compliance. And there it is further to decide whether to use or not.

        I will not drop a lot, there is no "left" titanium in nature !! all titanium (rolled metal) is produced at highly specialized enterprises and there are not many of them! So the issue is closed with the quality of the products - it corresponds to either the GOST or the TU, but the gaskets (companies) that sold this rental, avoiding taxes, clearly could not show its true origin, since they were acquired most likely in violation of the law and as a conclusion - left certificates. I will explain .... for example, buying from the state reserve for practical cash. So the quality there should correspond, but those who profited from the left schemes should be planted .... they do not see the coast at all !!!!
        1. +2
          5 February 2019 17: 58
          I also thought, how can titanium be "left"? Even common brands have become difficult to find "leftist". It is for gasoline that you can build a distillation cube in a shed, and if we are talking about a metallurgical enterprise ... there are not too many titanium producers. Here are the left certificates in bulk - yes. The business of resellers is to have their own gesheft, they manipulate prices, but this does not affect the quality in any way.
      6. 0
        5 February 2019 23: 36
        Do not transfer arrows to engineers and workers. Wrong look, namesake.
      7. 0
        7 February 2019 01: 50
        The team does not need to be touched. Just bunks about top managers miss. And the team just does not pour vodka)))
      8. +2
        7 February 2019 13: 37
        I think the engineers did not close their eyes, but they shut their mouths
        usually it happens - I experienced it myself.
    2. 0
      4 February 2019 13: 21
      At least you need to try.
    3. Maz
      0
      5 February 2019 10: 22
      Well, what a wide circle of people was involved! And the roof from the top. Otherwise, you have not checked this for many years! Ugh, bastards.
  2. +5
    4 February 2019 04: 43
    The bottom line is that in the designs of aircraft that were manufactured at the Voronezh enterprise, components and parts made of non-certified metal were discovered. I translate into a normal language: insolent to the extreme.

    The impudent ones should be tried not only for theft, but also for attempted murder of pilots and passengers, sabotage, and return the article "Wrecking". And start shooting like serial killers, because they can kill a lot of innocent people because of money. hi
    1. +7
      4 February 2019 05: 20
      Is that why the U.S. Department of Defense buys a $ 50 bolt-to-nut or bolt-to-bolt nut? Because, starting from ore mining, all stages of the production of military equipment are certified! And the control over the execution of technological cards in each operation is the most severe! Yes, extra control operations cost money, but saving is the loss of life and the final product. Lack of certification for individual stages, fake certificates - a crime! This is not a sneakers stall for you! Even more horrified is the lack of military acceptance. Who gave such an order?!? This is a state crime, which draws for life with confiscation!
      1. +9
        4 February 2019 05: 30
        Quote: depressant
        Who gave such an order?!? This is a state crime, which draws for life with confiscation!

        And you do not know?
        Anatoly Serdyukov, having assumed the post of Minister of Defense, as part of his reforms, drastically reduced the number of military representatives at enterprises involved in the manufacture of military products. Previously, specific military acceptance structures were subordinate to the ordering departments during the delivery and types of armed forces. There were about 40 such departments along the line of the Ministry of Defense.
        https://www.tula.kp.ru/daily/26043.4/2956998/
      2. +2
        4 February 2019 05: 30
        Quote: depressant
        This is a state crime, which draws for life with confiscation!

        I agree with you in everything. But it is amazing that this was done deliberately, they (all this shameless thief) are ready for anything for the sake of money, probably even sell their mother to slavery, but they knew what consequences this could lead to, it is not fake "adidas" to trade in the bazaar. hi
        1. +2
          4 February 2019 10: 46
          I honestly read the article and comments and I can not understand:
          Quote: Evdokim
          for the sake of money they’re ready for anything, probably even their mother
          where do these come from? As Vysotsky sang: so you didn't read the right books in childhood? Peter the Great was right: to beat the nettle seed with sticks on the heels .. And for undermining the image of the State, one should probably immediately "for the caponier" and wholesale, so that others would not be familiar.
      3. +1
        4 February 2019 11: 03
        Quote: depressant

        Is that why the U.S. Department of Defense buys a $ 50 bolt-to-nut or bolt-to-bolt nut?

        you have gone too far, my friend, we are not in the position to buy a bolt and nut for 50 bucks, it will be even more expensive for us if we take into account kickbacks.
        Everything is just like in Sovka, it is necessary that the entire military-industrial complex and energy resources, transportation (Russian Railways Air) are under the full control and management of the STATE, then there will be order. As before, at least in the Union there was no such mess.
        1. 0
          7 February 2019 19: 34
          ... "under the full control and management of the STATE,"

          This "STATE" does not exist for a long time.
          It still needs to be recreated. What now
          called the state, it's a pack of varying degrees
          thievery, greedy and arrogant officials.
          Insolent from impunity
    2. +1
      4 February 2019 07: 22
      This is not only an attempt, it is generally obvious sabotage, damage to business reputation, damage to the image of Russia, insult to the authorities, counter-revolutionary activities, the influence of Trotskyist organizations, and we must check for cooperation with foreign intelligence, a clear mass genocide.
  3. +8
    4 February 2019 05: 13
    I apologize, there are only two titanium producers left in the world: Russia and China. Therefore, the question is: "left" titanium of whose production? Or is the "left" still a marriage of the manufacturer?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +6
      4 February 2019 05: 19
      Here is another good example of metal quality.
      1. 0
        4 February 2019 05: 24
        Wow yourself ... belay What kind of fittings is this? A-11? Survived. sad
        1. +1
          4 February 2019 08: 23
          Like, "herringbone" means not lower than A-3.
          A detailed comment about "survived", read below (or above, I still do not fully understand the order of publishing answers on this forum).
          1. 0
            4 February 2019 08: 27
            Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
            Like, "herringbone" means not lower than A-3.
            A detailed comment about "survived", read below (or above, I still do not fully understand the order of publishing answers on this forum).

            Click on answer, and all business.
            1. 0
              4 February 2019 08: 33
              I was not accurate: I still do not understand how to understand the answer tree, it does not indicate who you are answering here, but on the screen it strains to track who the answer is addressed to.
              1. +1
                4 February 2019 08: 40
                Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
                I was not accurate: I still do not understand how to understand the answer tree, it does not indicate who you are answering here, but on the screen it strains to track who the answer is addressed to.

                If it is not clear to whom this or that comment is intended, then pay attention to the arrow next to the time. Click on it, and you can see to whom the comment is intended. But personally, I prefer to quote so that no questions arise. hi At least part of the comment, highlight in blue and click "quote".
                Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
                to whom the answer is addressed.
                1. 0
                  4 February 2019 09: 20
                  Thank mordvin 3
                  I don’t really like to quote, but I fully understand the convenience of this service, in other forums (on which I sometimes communicate) I have not seen such a way of citing.
                  1. +1
                    4 February 2019 09: 24
                    Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
                    I have not seen such a way of quoting.

                    Very convenient, by the way. I also have something to compare. hi
              2. +2
                4 February 2019 09: 46
                Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
                it doesn’t indicate to whom you are answering, but on the screen annoying to track who

                What post do you want to give an answer to .. under it, left-click "Reply", then right-click on "a piece or phrase of text" from the comment, and click "Quote" wink
                Set forth and oppose the interlocutor further drinks
                1. +1
                  4 February 2019 09: 50
                  Thank you, but Mordvin 3 has already told me an hour!
                  But I never liked emoticons and will never fall in love.
                  1. 0
                    5 February 2019 14: 26
                    Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
                    But I never liked emoticons and will never fall in love.

                    But in vain wink ..as a smiley, as a rule, replaces 3 lines of text to express your thoughts and convey it. and here ... once ... and that's it drinks
                    1. +1
                      5 February 2019 14: 57
                      You are mistaken, no picture can replace a word, no one is obliged to understand the whisper of cockroaches in the head of the interlocutor who posted a certain picture.
                      But this is my personal opinion, I do not impose, but simply inform about the presence of other bumps of vision.
                      1. +1
                        5 February 2019 15: 04
                        Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
                        You are mistaken, no picture can replace a word, no one is obliged to understand the whisper of cockroaches in the head of the interlocutor who posted a certain picture.

                        Well, maybe you .. ". Know better" (how can you not put a smiley here?)
                        Have you ever received a reply to your ... "no picture can replace words ..." - .. "too many bukFF ... not mastered"?
                      2. 0
                        5 February 2019 15: 19
                        1. No need to put a smiley after "know better".
                        2. "I did not master" and "a lot of bukaf" - this is what I myself sometimes write.
                        3. I do not understand your position on the whispers of cockroaches, you still insist that everyone should have interpreters to whisper your cockroaches?
              3. +1
                4 February 2019 11: 11
                Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
                I don’t understand yet how to understand the answer tree,

                You have not figured out for the year of your presence on the site ???? request Bravo!
                1. 0
                  4 February 2019 11: 18
                  Blow out your cheeks.
                  They are visible from the back.
                  Burst inadvertently ... sadness ...
                  Wipe your eyes, take an interest in my number of comments.
                  I’ve been on the site for many years, but have never been too hyperactive, I remember the previous view of the forum.
                  I lost the previous login, so the new underscore in the new one.
                  I’ve commented on the updated forum for less than a month.
                  Do you need it ?!
                  I repeat, I do not like stupid emoticons.
                  For the gifted: Mordvin 3 has already clearly explained everything to me, thanks to him.
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      2. +1
        4 February 2019 08: 18
        Rarely stupid video !!
        The fittings are not intended for perception SUCH shock loads.
        The fittings are placed inside concrete structures behind a protective layer of concrete.
        Armature perceives and is calculated on stretching the load on which concrete works is disgusting.
        YouTube is filled with moronic videos.
        Movies designed for the same narrow-minded amateurs ... sadness ...
        Minus you!
        1. +4
          4 February 2019 10: 00
          What are these loads? The fittings must be resilient, but it is fragile like glass; this is improper heat treatment. And how did you transport it to the construction site? Yes, then it should crumble into pieces when unloading.
          1. +2
            4 February 2019 10: 06
            I am a builder (work on the line, design, engineering survey, teaching at a construction university), so I am aware of both transportation and construction. When transporting, there are never such loads as in this dumb roller.
            As fragile as glass? What are you talking about? Glass can also be different, I hope you have a car. right and you know the difference between triplex and Stalinism, and window glass in "Khrushchev".
            1. +4
              4 February 2019 10: 12
              And I have repeatedly had to do the input control of the metal and test the statics with dynamics, and with confidence I can say that this fittings the input control would not pass for anything.
              1. +1
                4 February 2019 10: 22
                It is always a pleasure to talk with a specialist, and not with a fan thrower.
                What do you base your conclusion on? What indicator here clearly does not correspond to the normative value?
                1. +1
                  4 February 2019 10: 42
                  Impact strength and elongation. The impact on each other is large, there is no concentrator, the impact itself is, well, 20-25 kg. The bar fell apart like concrete.
                  1. 0
                    4 February 2019 10: 56
                    Isn’t it that the blow falls in the middle of the cantilever bar?
                    It seems that this type of test is not provided for valves?
                    The valve must not experience such a load during operation.
                    And why do you think that the area of ​​contact is great when two corrugated rods?
                    I have suspicions that in the video it is high-strength reinforcement, the class is much higher, cham A-3, or am I wrong?
                    1. +1
                      4 February 2019 11: 09
                      Maybe A-3, or maybe Ac-2 (Ac300), there is a bee elm there. On copra, a blow is made with a narrow area in the center of the sample, and then with a U or V cut, the sample does not always fall into 2 parts. And then a punch. On copra after all, 300 kJ.
            2. +1
              4 February 2019 10: 55
              Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
              teaching at a construction university

              What do you teach? You, as a teacher, know perfectly well that due to a violation of technology, a vase can break by itself. The instructor gave us just such an example when he explained the technology of glass production. Everyone sins against each other, curses, and the whole thing is in the termichka. By the way, in glass such a problem was encountered in practice. For no reason, the lobovuha on the brand new ZIL 130 burst. Over-heated fittings, I agree with Artem. It will not work on floor slabs. Although I forgot the calculation formulas, I experienced cement bars for compression, tension, and bending. A construction college, if that, even though it didn’t work a day by profession, went to a car mechanic. Where will this fittings go? There was a reinforced concrete base near the house, so the reinforcement was privatized constantly, they made swords. Never seen so fragile.
              1. +1
                4 February 2019 11: 00
                I basically don’t listen to comments in such videos so that they do not interfere with what I’ve seen data, so I did not hear the comments of the author of the video.
                And why do you believe the video? Are you sure that the author did not carry out thermal or other manipulations with the fittings in the pursuit of viewing on YouTube before shooting?
                1. 0
                  4 February 2019 11: 06
                  Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
                  Are you sure that the author did not carry out thermal or other manipulations with the fittings in the pursuit of viewing on YouTube before shooting?

                  To be honest, I did not think about it. Maybe this can be, we have enough idiots. sad
      3. +3
        4 February 2019 11: 07
        Quote: The same LYOKHA

        Here is another good example of metal quality.

        In Ulan-Ude, we had a roundabout about 10 years ago - a roundabout was done, it was our metal huckster who let such a metal into the construction of the bridge, but we checked it in time. Who's guilty? and what to do? There was a tender, he who won was cheaper, and then God sends.
        1. 0
          5 February 2019 05: 34
          tender - "our everything" ...
    3. 0
      4 February 2019 08: 12
      I’m not an expert, but offhand: titanium, like concrete, is a very large group of products, they probably have a lot of grades for different purposes, therefore, as in the construction of a dam of a hydroelectric power station it is impossible to use concrete of low strength, density and frost resistance, and for certain aircraft products Only titanium with certain properties will do. And the manufacturer has nothing to do with it, only the roguish industrial buyer who forged the certificate for titanium is to blame.
    4. +5
      4 February 2019 09: 09
      the most likely option, the left titanium leaked from the factory and this stolen unaccounted metal was sold under fake certificates, this explains why they did not burn for a long time, the metal was the same.
      1. +1
        4 February 2019 10: 27
        Quote: nov_tech.vrn
        the most likely option, the left titanium leaked from the factory and this stolen unaccounted metal was sold under fake certificates, this explains why they did not burn for a long time, the metal was the same.


        Quote from the article: "What is the point? The bottom line is that in the designs of aircraft that were produced at the Voronezh enterprise, units and parts were found made of uncertified metal. Including aviation titanium."

        It is understood that the problem there is not only in left titanium, but also in other metals.
    5. -1
      4 February 2019 09: 40
      and I with the same question --- are the Americans squeezing the Chinese out of the Russian market? and other world
      what is bad chinese?
      Leaders of the countries have not signed the "recognition certificates"?
      in the CD is not it?
      who is against brotherly friendship?
      maybe in Avisma "Boeing's friends" played in "the price of the best metal in the world" and the Chinese are selling cheap?
      Or maybe the slurry was put in a glider?
  4. +2
    4 February 2019 05: 16
    I, too, came to my senses.
    President Dmitry Medvedev personally experienced problems with the electronic "stuffing" of Russian aircraft and decided to take seriously the domestic aviation industry. As a source close to the president explained, the Tu-214, on which the head of state flew, had problems with the landing gear during the last flight. We are talking about "a beautiful new aircraft worth about $ 50 million."

    More details: https://www.newsru.com/russia/01apr2011/aviaprom.html
    laughing
    In less than eight years ... crying
    1. +21
      4 February 2019 05: 57
      At one time I had a chance to work at a factory with a military acceptance. The military arrived and could not take away the wasps - a special series of devices for space. I figured it out and went to the first section: "Show the plates!" Under the microscope, a terrifying picture was revealed: the plates looked like a month! Etching pits only on the "light" side! "How do you poison them?!?" And like this: in a glass, in bulk. But they are polished, adhesion! Why not in fluoroplastic baskets?!? Ftoroplast roads, the section for the manufacture of baskets was abolished, the adjuster made a rationalization proposal, the Chief Technologist signed it, the Angstrem parent company approved ... I never tire of talking about this case as the most indicative of those outrages that I had to face. Malice suffocates! So, not only need to check the certificates and, wherever possible, put military control on titanium, but, most importantly, check the technical maps - how far they have gone from the developer's technical maps!
      1. +4
        4 February 2019 10: 26
        Quote: depressant
        Anger smothers!

        there was nothing sacred among lovers to snatch from the state. And so everywhere!
        The latest news: in children at the Ulyanovsk Suvorov School of Echinococcosis. He was also found at the cook. This is how you need to spit on the processing of food, water for children to allow this? But often this is not treated with pills. Parents entrusted the children to the school, i.e. to the state, but got what?
        1. +2
          4 February 2019 11: 16
          Quote: Silvestr
          Parents entrusted the children to the school, i.e. to the state, but got what?

          Our state has recently eliminated itself. I think it is not necessary to improve the quality of products released today, and sold through networkers? 3 days ago I bought bread, I don’t understand what stinks, I turned to the store, promised to write a letter to the manufacturer, today I went in, bread from the same manufacturer, it stinks, but less. Complaining with the authorities is a waste of time, at least with us. The neighbor dissuaded, tried. And you say the State))))
          1. +3
            4 February 2019 11: 21
            Quote: Sirocco
            3 days ago I bought bread

            I already hesitated to choose bread - on the 2nd day it’s not edible. And there is a lot of wheat! - they shout in the box, but horseradish bread - for life.
            1. +1
              4 February 2019 11: 31
              Quote: Silvestr
              but horseradish bread, for life.

              Not only bread, alas, we work at a pharmacy.
              1. +3
                4 February 2019 11: 33
                Quote: Sirocco
                Not only bread, alas, we work at a pharmacy.

                if we eat wrong, then health will be wrong. See what grows- shops and pharmacies
        2. +1
          4 February 2019 18: 11
          the state gave food to the armed forces, either ooo voentorg., or someone else. But the turn is entirely Asians. At least in Eburg19 a town and many more where. They drag such bags from work! This is the mafia. Behind the fence they are waiting for broken Lada. I remember one checked, selected, so at the checkpoint 2 or 3 abrek flew into a showdown. One was detained, the other was handed over to the police. Aunt was kicked out, but they took the same pancake. And the soldiers were poisoned.
  5. +9
    4 February 2019 05: 44
    It seems that military representatives urgently need to organize security. Hefty major interests are affected. Well done boys.
    1. +2
      4 February 2019 11: 22
      Quote: Mikhail M
      It seems that military representatives urgently need to organize security.

      maybe it's time to form firing squads for greyhounds?
    2. +1
      4 February 2019 11: 22
      It is a pity that there is no universal military acceptance in the food industry. And then they would have gotten such certificates .... Pranks with titanium would have seemed like children's games.
      1. +1
        4 February 2019 12: 18
        An acquaintance works in a large company supplying ingredients for the meat industry. Their technologists made a cervelat with a cost of 70 rubles kg, from meat 10% deboned, even she did not understand what she was eating until she was told and what to do "sausage manufacturers demand this."
        1. -1
          8 February 2019 11: 01
          "sausage manufacturers demand this"
          Come on, they demand, your friend will gladly bring their additives to such manufacturers, moreover, they will tell you how this will help to save on ingredients.
    3. 0
      4 February 2019 18: 26
      But aren't military representatives getting paid at subordinate enterprises?
  6. -6
    4 February 2019 05: 58
    Perhaps the bracket from the left titanium on the presidential plane will help to quickly address the issue.
    In reality, for the country only benefit would be.

    That is, shouldn't it be understood that from a catastrophe it would be ONLY USE with a presidential plane? The author, you are directly writing, whose death you wish for the good of the Fatherland. Venediktov + Khodorkovsky just nervously smoking aside !!!
  7. +11
    4 February 2019 06: 04
    The fact that this is a mess is understandable, at any enterprise is like that. But then metal came to the plant, without fail, before casting, it passes the input control for the declared characteristics. Foundry workers need to understand that they will melt, and in the process of melting sometimes adjust the characteristics of the alloy. Further, after melting, samples of the alloy are taken and checked in the laboratory. And if after melting the properties of the metal do not fit into the specified parameters, then the batch simply goes to waste. Okay, the marriage went into machining, but there after manufacturing, parts are checked. And so at every stage. And if the part went from metal to the plane through many checks, then the probability that it does not meet the declared characteristics is extremely small. Plus, at each stage, the military representatives check it, and this is another department, and cover shoals of "effective managers" for them not why. And it turns out that all these graters, just dismantling the machinations of managers.
    1. +5
      4 February 2019 06: 50
      And you are in the subject! Of course, left certificates are forged fraud for participants, but the factory quality system should ensure the quality of parts. The purity of the origin of the metal does not guarantee compliance.
      1. +6
        4 February 2019 07: 02
        Quote: shamil
        The purity of the origin of the metal does not guarantee compliance.

        Remember the movie about the war was? When a bunch of people are sitting at a meeting, they find out the reasons for the marriage of fighter racks. Who melted, tempered? Let's get this master here. The snotty years of 12 come in. Called up? They only looked at him silently. Go away, they say.
    2. +5
      4 February 2019 09: 43
      In addition, 100% X-ray control of the casting or forgings details themselves. The photograph is viewed and vised by the deputy metallurgist’s deputy, this is after all stages of control. The photographs are stored for several decades (I won’t know exactly how many). I myself served the TAPOiCh titanium casting site and I know that I say!
    3. 0
      4 February 2019 09: 44
      and I'm from the same 9 cm above) - everything is not done the first day. VP just woke up.
      simple market sharing
    4. +3
      4 February 2019 09: 49
      Petrovich, your comment is more professional than the article by a respected author.
    5. 0
      4 February 2019 10: 39
      Quote: cosmospetrovich
      And it turns out that all these graters are just a showdown of the fraud of the managers.


      Yes, there are no graters, but the corruption component comes out. And it’s precisely the quality of the questions .... For example: An interested circle of people bought metal from a third-party manufacturer at a lower price, put the difference in price in your pocket, how do you like this? No one in their right mind and without personal interest will forge certificates. And as I went through the left metal test at enterprises (with an interested party), I think it’s clear.
    6. 0
      4 February 2019 11: 18
      Quote: cosmospetrovich
      The fact that this is a mess is already clear at any enterprise.

      This is just the most terrible thing, they started talking about the mess as something ordinary.
  8. +3
    4 February 2019 06: 33
    here it is the invisible hand of the economy of nanoprofessor chubais and the rest of the campaign
  9. +1
    4 February 2019 07: 16
    Who's guilty! .... and who is to blame, you can drag the system, the executioner with an ax or a wolf brand! in the meantime, the cart is where he was abandoned once upon a time, the positive movement is not visible.
  10. +5
    4 February 2019 07: 42
    News every day more and more fun! One insult - no one will sit down.
  11. +1
    4 February 2019 08: 12
    That only people do not do it for money .... although there is nothing unusual, competitors are simply needed, but competition in the modern world is already unrealistic, progress and technology require concentration and monopolization. On the other hand, technology violations are an excuse for a thorough cleaning, perhaps the local people completely lost the coast, at one time even Al Capone sat down not for murders and racketeering, but for tax evasion
  12. +7
    4 February 2019 08: 24
    "... By the way, now we are actively cooperating with the Prosecutor General's Office, which checks the United Aircraft Corporation. Syr-boron began at the Voronezh Aircraft Building Association (VASO). As a result, nine companies supplied titanium either from the old state reserves, or of the Chinese model, or stolen, passing it off as VSMPO titanium. Unfortunately, not only VASO, but also other UAC enterprises from Kazan, Ulyanovsk, Moscow, Taganrog, Novosibirsk, Irkutsk, Nizhny Novgorod, Komsomolsk-on-Amur purchased titanium without knowing it, using fake certificates."

    From an interview with the Head of the Economic Security Department of PJSC "VSMPO-AVISMA Corporation" Uglova OB 17.01.19/XNUMX/XNUMX g.


    So the scale of tryndets with low-quality titanium for our VKS and civil aviation is not limited only to VASO.
    1. +3
      4 February 2019 09: 26
      Russian Railways - your travel comfort. And it’s better not to check the certificates.
  13. +1
    4 February 2019 09: 01
    Odd as it was a shame for fellow countrymen recourse
    1. +1
      4 February 2019 11: 16
      Not worth it. Not only your countrymen were put in such a pose. The whole country is worth it.
  14. +5
    4 February 2019 09: 18
    Well, the president and the government are not to blame lol
  15. +5
    4 February 2019 09: 57
    It has long been proven that compliance with the law is not ensured by the severity of punishment, but by its inevitability. While one can break the law, and the other cannot - this is not a game of democracy - this is anarchy. If Putin has not been able to put things in order for 20 years, let him give way to those who can.

    It would be good for documents such as certificates to use blockchain technology so that the possibility of falsification was completely excluded.
  16. +1
    4 February 2019 10: 05
    So titanium was taken from third-party organizations, not from the manufacturer. I would not be surprised that the "manufacturer" sent good titanium to the USA to Boeing, and the domestic ones had to be content with not the condition.
    1. +1
      4 February 2019 10: 14
      And that's exactly what happened. Because the domestic manufacturers from the UAC decided to buy titanium not from the manufacturer, but from intermediaries with fake certificates. Western companies are very scrupulous about product certification and do not allow themselves to take "leftist" from various intermediaries.
  17. +8
    4 February 2019 10: 18
    I translate into a normal language: insolent to the extreme.

    This has long been clear to normal people. Do not become insolent, but lovers of stealing have gotten sick.
    And what about the state? And it proposes to consider stealing not stealing because of "force majeure" - like steal, but share carefully and most importantly!
    Yarovaya also once said: "the fight against corruption can destroy our state."
    It turns out that our state is based on theft, corruption, nepotism? And how can it resist?
  18. +1
    4 February 2019 10: 22
    The revived military acceptance excelled.

    Those. works, since they caught the scammers. As for me, it would be mandatory to return GOST
    1. 0
      4 February 2019 18: 21
      These are not bunglers - this is the "third" shift! The quality is the same, but past the box office ...
  19. +1
    4 February 2019 10: 30
    The law that obliges everyone to buy at tenders and tenders must be adjusted. About 15 years ago, I proposed creating a surrogate for the state price and state standards. So that the most mass and standardized products can be bought without competitions, provided that they comply with the standard and at a price not higher than the established price. As part of the same procedure, you can allow buying titanium without competition from a single supplier. And unique and imported products should participate in the competitions ...
  20. +2
    4 February 2019 10: 51
    I think they bought titanium of the right brand, but not from the manufacturer. Or a "leftist" from a factory, or simply stolen from or from old stocks, haunted by some manufacturer during the perestroika period, or simply "saved" on large allowances for previous products. Faced with such facts ... Naturally, they bought "cheaper" .... Hence the left certificates ... Each large enterprise has a Central Factory Laboratory (central factory laboratory) whose duties include checking the properties of materials for compliance with the declared ones. The "left" titanium must have been tested. So the strength properties of the parts, I think, are what they should be .... And it is logical that any buyer of the "leftist" will insure himself against surprises and give the metal to the laboratory for verification ... IMHO ... Well, where is the military acceptance? looked? ... Well, this is a matter for the prosecutor's office .... to find out the relationship with the acceptance ... And most importantly: if material with worse properties was used, then for this it is necessary to seriously punish ... this is sabotage ...
  21. 0
    4 February 2019 11: 07
    From Soviet times about military acceptance:
    - Comrade Colonel, why don't you fly planes?
    “Because I know how they are made.”
    1. 0
      4 February 2019 18: 19
      Airplanes do well! The controlling bodies will lower seven skins. And they will not let the marriage go! But they are being expelled on the ground! Autopilot blocks are driven into the platform with boots, although there are special pens for this ... inability, ignorance, not desire, natural idiocy (Yes, alas, it is not uncommon in aviation!) For maintenance personnel - and the manufacturers are to blame!
  22. +1
    4 February 2019 11: 14
    As long as the country has private ownership of the means of production, the mess will remain unchanged everywhere.
    Political appeals for the economy, private profits and profits do not apply.
    1. 0
      4 February 2019 12: 17
      About 20 years ago I was dealing with a regional network of gas stations. At one time, the main player in our region was LUKOIL. So in this network of gas stations I was pleasantly struck by neither modern buildings, awnings, fuel dispensers, and the work of people, starting from the refueling station, to the heads of departments in offices. Then their employees showed us what the order in the workflow means. At that time, I tried to refuel my car with them, because I trusted them and was sure that their fuel will not disfigure my car.
      So that a private trader can have order and profit.
  23. 0
    4 February 2019 11: 46
    [quote = Aleksandr21] Quote from the article: "What is the point? The bottom line is that in the designs of the aircraft that were produced at the Voronezh enterprise, units and parts made of uncertified metal were found. Including aviation titanium."
    Now Deripaska has lost control of luminium. I wonder where the best quality alloys will go first, to us at the MS-21, or to Boeing?
  24. 0
    4 February 2019 12: 10
    Who really is, and Vova deserved to fly on such an airplane, the collapse of all state systems is his work!
  25. -1
    4 February 2019 12: 52
    The introduction of the death penalty and the shooting of such freaks! Even a little stop this mess!
  26. 0
    4 February 2019 13: 18
    Quote: The same Lech
    We’ll hire new ones ... in a couple of years and they will have to be shot.

    at the entrance of the plant, instead of a stand - "Production leaders", hang their photographs with a bowed head in the loop and the headline - "Hanged for theft" ... the third set of personnel will stay at the plant longer.
    By the way, the enforcement of the sentence could be carried out on the territory of the plant ... for clarity. .
  27. 0
    4 February 2019 14: 21
    What is the Duma calving? Rather, a law on force majeure circumstances should be adopted. Elite security.
  28. 0
    4 February 2019 14: 28
    Definitely: sunk.

    It is clear that this is not the 1937 year, but I think that if Putin really does have something to do with his plane, then the issue with the article on confiscation will be resolved instantly.

    Actually, from European meetings we were almost everywhere exposed, is there any point in playing democracy? There's no point. People frankly lose the coast and begins to lawlessness.


    Right in the news topic ...

  29. +2
    4 February 2019 14: 52
    Everything is simple. Under the conditions of applying 223-ФЗ, the normal supplier of quality products - VSMPO - cannot compete with leftists. So they begin to catch. This law puts an end to quality everywhere. And for the low price, quality will never be. This law was created by traders, for traders. The industry can work on such nonsense only in any way.
    Therefore, I don’t even see the point in reading comments.
    1. 0
      8 February 2019 11: 06
      Why blame the law? As if no one knows how to get around the low price. The break-in to strain just once again, it’s easier to buy shit.
      1. 0
        8 February 2019 15: 43
        Have you bought anything by FZ-223?
  30. 0
    4 February 2019 16: 01
    When I was working in gas, I also observed a similar scam. Managers, as you say, got in touch. Moreover, the quality of the products just suffered. So the left titanium will have to be checked and it’s not the fact that it will pass the test. The left one is not always high-quality.
  31. +1
    4 February 2019 17: 15
    A common story. Effective managers make a fake tender among their dozen or so controlled firms. The metal is bought at a "landfill" (conventionally "at a landfill", ie it is not suitable for the given technical conditions. It is not important for what it is suitable ...). And they buy at an inflated price. The difference in price is net income. Except how to steal, these managers do not know how. They don't have a headache for quality and products. And so in all the factories that are given to them to plunder. Further, bankruptcy. And the sale of the leftovers by the appointed receiver. Not a single plant was put on its feet by them. The task is personal enrichment. No control by the state. if there is control, it is only for a share in the robbery.
  32. +1
    4 February 2019 17: 21
    So you have to return the executions ....
    1. 0
      5 February 2019 19: 09
      Yeah, but first you have to return Stalin.
  33. +3
    4 February 2019 17: 46
    It's very simple for 50.000 rubles, I can get a certificate that a part made from manure has passed certification for the aircraft industry. It will take about a day from the moment of the application until the receipt of the papers with all the tests from the laboratories and other things. This is in Moscow without any problems at all. Now VASO's situation is the same as that of Krasny Kotelshchik, when it turned out that the certification of the units is a complete "linden" no tests, nothing. And the equipment must be stopped. But Krasny Kotelshchik worked with Rosatom. etc. etc. It was the same with the Americans with secondary parts for Boeing. Whole workshops worked on restoration, redesigning numbers and stamps and packaging. And until Boeing crashed with people "nobody knew." Italians do this and buy furniture from China. They take them to their place, interrupt all the markings from Chinese to Italian. And they sell them to idiots in Russia, EU, USA. Anywhere. By winding up 500-1000% of the profit. And gullible "gophers" in "boutiques of elite furniture" lay out 20-30 thousand euros for bedrooms, for an office, for a chair with stools. And they think that they are awesome tough guys and they have all the most.)))) Ours are also not far behind. Such "business" is covered by certain people from the special services, for a share. Therefore, although it is not possible, it is possible. Often "manufacturers" bring goods (for example, bearings) from China. Redo the documents and voila, "Made in Russia"! Why is that? Because if they start making them themselves on the market, they will not be competitive. Since the plant, which makes them millions of pieces, the cost is lower than that of a start-up company. And we win tenders at a price, the lower the better. To change the situation, it is necessary to give odds to Russian enterprises. Raise duties on certain groups of imports. It's the same with food. We bought 50 tons of cheap oil from Brazil. Brought to Russia and repackaged in a wrapper from a famous Russian brand. And they sold it to retail chains. The printers give a shit that they ordered a bunch of butter wrappers. According to the results, retailers need a cheaper purchase to raise their margins. A good thing was done that now you can track who bought what from whom - "Mercury" is called. It will show that for example: Oil "Blue Meadow" was bought by the chain of stores "Ten". And according to the data of "Mercury" it will be clear that the manufacturer of "Blue Meadow" never sold it to them. And the dealers didn't sell it. And then it will be clear that individual entrepreneur Semergezetuzidze, who sold 20 tons of oil from the "Ten" chain, is a swindler and a scoundrel and he must be planted in the Kolyma forest in a prison, forever. Unfortunately, we do not have such a system in industrial production. Therefore, there can be "restored" parts, and "broken", and made from manure. And so on, so on.
    1. 0
      4 February 2019 23: 16
      Mercury, my friend. Serves one purpose. This is another hidden tax to replenish the financial well-being of friends, you know who. Or do you want to say that these Plato and Mercury have benefited? Nonsense. Do you know why the maneuver you indicated with a re-marking is possible in Russia and cherevat in the west? Because there everyone will sit for it. And with us, the maximum will be removed and transferred to another position. Because we have a Basmanny court.
    2. 0
      5 February 2019 19: 23
      Nothing surprises me now. Everything vile that mankind could come up with has been qualitatively introduced in Russia. A question to those in power: "Do you have anything human left?" You dirty the whole country with your shit. Maybe it's easier for you against the wall?
  34. 0
    4 February 2019 18: 01
    and what you want, two directors of Voentelecom LLC were closed. One he bought old spare parts from himself, another Chinese network switches under the guise of Russian delivered to the Armed Forces.
    1. 0
      5 February 2019 21: 14
      First, they haven't closed it yet. There are no results of the case yet. Secondly, not switches, but routers (the difference is about the same as between KAMAZ and Lada). Thirdly, our own (honestly made, not "seamless") still do not exist and will not be in the near future.
      1. 0
        7 February 2019 16: 26
        Tamodin not closed?
        The ex-head of Voentelecom, Nikolai Tamodin, and his subordinate, Sergei Pobezhimov, were sentenced by a court decision to imprisonment of 6 and 5 years, respectively, and to pay fines of over i1 million each.
        More details: http://www.cnews.ru/news/top/eksgendirektor_voentelekoma_prigovoren
        in the second, both devices relate to network equipment. They are designed for the operation of computer networks. The router is the same router. why a router at the headquarters of an association or division?
        1. 0
          7 February 2019 22: 47
          Colonel are you for TA -57 or TAI-43?
          1. 0
            8 February 2019 17: 24
            for TA-88, if you know about this
            1. 0
              9 February 2019 12: 29
              there is such a thing the modernization of the communication and control system and the word router in the armed forces, at least 10 years is not abusive,
  35. -1
    4 February 2019 18: 11
    The guys did "gesheft" - they sold titanium past the box office from AVISMA to the guys from VASO (also past the box office), and the guys from the prosecutor's office wanted their share ....
  36. 0
    4 February 2019 18: 31
    This author does not yet know how many counterfeit castings in the details of wagons ride
  37. 0
    4 February 2019 20: 08
    Oooh! Where are the advantages for the article? Hands itch ...))
  38. 0
    4 February 2019 23: 06
    VASO say is included in Ilyushin? And who is set over Ilyushin? Is not the star son of Rogozin also young? Two options. Either a golden baby in a share, or such a mess spread that everyone is stealing. What in the first what in the second case, the punishment should be.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. -1
    5 February 2019 13: 55
    Quote: White_Furry
    So that’s why planes fall apart when landing, and space rockets fall into swamps due to cracks in tanks and fuel lines! When will these dashing 90s already cease to make themselves felt? When are these liberals going up? Again the catastrophic success of degradation achievements.

    They (the liberals) never sigh while the president and the government are praying for a model of liberal capitalism, in which there is no whip for the producers of falsification! This applies even to the aircraft industry, even to a seedy sausage factory. And there is no control over the system, that is, there is no corrective feedback, then the system goes out of hand anyway, which we observe from the "holes", now in one place, then in another place, and corruption is a consequence of such a liberal system. The system should be liberal (supportive) towards conscientious market participants and merciless towards rippers and counterfeiters. Until our elite at the helm understands these seemingly simple things that a grandmother with 4 grades of education understands, nothing in our country will really go. And individual episodes of the successful struggle against the vices of the pseudo-liberal system only emphasize its inferiority. hi
  41. 0
    5 February 2019 18: 59
    But what prevents the market from buying from the manufacturer? Circular corruption. .
    1. 0
      7 February 2019 15: 46
      Buy from the manufacturer prevents FZ-223. He says that there must be competition. So at least someone can supply metal. If only the price was the lowest. ALL. This is the main criterion. And there at least VASO, at least horseradish from the mountain. The FAS and the prosecutor's office are standing guard over this fight against corruption. Want to chat with them?

      No one will ever buy even pants for themselves by the criterion of the lowest price. But our legislators believe that this is how industry with state capital should live.

      So I'm for corruption. It is cheaper.
      1. 0
        7 February 2019 18: 13
        Yes, and even the notorious tender in general fun.))) Import substitution obstinacy in the wonderful legislative framework created by our athletes, singers, businessmen and other nimble individuals sitting in the Duma.
  42. +1
    5 February 2019 21: 06
    Quote: depressant
    Is that why the U.S. Department of Defense buys a $ 50 bolt-to-nut or bolt-to-bolt nut? Because, starting from ore mining, all stages of the production of military equipment are certified!

    Here we also need! Only with us the certificates will be left, and the bolt with nut - Chinese. But what a gesheft!
  43. 0
    5 February 2019 21: 41
    The more I study the history of Russia, the more I begin to respect Joseph Vissarionovich for his repression. Nevertheless, he was right, and modern events only confirm this.
    1. 0
      7 February 2019 15: 47
      We do not need Comrade Stalin. Enough Comrade Beria.
  44. -1
    5 February 2019 23: 15
    I remember that in the novel "Peter the First" Aleksashka bought rotten poles for the tsar. For normal money.
    And you say, a system.
  45. 0
    5 February 2019 23: 20
    Why is the author surprised? The country is incompetently controlled by organized crime groups, what can we expect from it? Really honesty.
  46. 0
    5 February 2019 23: 58
    Quote: Oleg Zhepalov
    Quote: Finches
    about the devastation in people's heads

    Lying!
    I served in the zone. Zone for repeat offenders. We did not have a rookie. The zone is completely antisocial people with rare exceptions. The devastation in their heads should be such that mom don’t grieve, right?
    So, on the rise / building / divorce for a meal / to the industrial zone there were no latecomers. And the plan was carried out. No postscripts. For real. Miracle? Do convicts work better than free ones? No. There is no miracle. They just beat. Only the convicts are beaten in the face, and the free ones should be affordable. but "effective managers" who did not just steal at the plant, but "knew and did not report" just to the fullest extent of the law. I'm not talking about the shooting. Real term without any parole. With confiscation. Everything is as spelled out in the current legislation.



    As a former employee, I guarantee the quality of products manufactured by our zone. Yes, they also steal it, but they do it without sacrificing quality!


    Yeah ... not to the detriment of quality)))
    as one businessman concluded a contract with the zone for processing shrimp, they had to clean and freeze them. so processed for a shortage of 5 tons! that made up for the attachments of various metal objects))
  47. 0
    6 February 2019 08: 53
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    Which is easier ... to shoot the entire plant ... and who will produce the aircraft?

    what does the plant have to do with it?
    The plant works from the materials that it was supplied to, not knowing about its counterfeiting.
    There are quite specific culprits[b] [/ b] - those who forged the certificates and those who accepted them at the factory.

    I think everyone knew everything, from the top to the performers. The plant is a single organism, I just can’t say for sure, but I’ll assume that the collector may notice a difference when working with the material, questions may already arise for the warehouse, etc., and can be explained to the curious.
  48. 0
    6 February 2019 19: 14
    It is necessary to amend the procurement law for the needs of the military-industrial complex. Allow to participate in the supply of products only manufacturers of materials and equipment that meet all the requirements of GOST. If in the Russian Federation there is only one manufacturer of the necessary products, then it is necessary to purchase only from him, participation in tenders is not allowed
    for the supply of intermediaries.
    1. 0
      7 February 2019 10: 55
      Intolerant offer ..
  49. 0
    7 February 2019 18: 24
    The execution must be turned around.
  50. 0
    7 February 2019 19: 54
    Quote: Ivan__Pomidorov
    I repeat, I do not like stupid emoticons.


    I don’t like any emoticons. They in the fido (from punctuation marks) made sense.
    And now these Papuan pictures are not needed.
  51. +1
    8 February 2019 22: 47
    I work at the Chelyabinsk Metallurgical Plant in the production of stainless steels and special alloys, and the last time they ordered VASO directly from us was in the mid-2000s, where they now get the metal is not clear at all. At the same time, in some respects we are the only ones in Russia, and in others in the world. Now only the Voronezh branch of the Khrunichev Design Bureau is directly hired.

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