Why were needed Stalinist repression

In order for Russia and the people to survive, to preserve the Russian civilization, there was only one way - the transition of the civilization matrix-code into the national project. When civilization and national tasks coincide with the project of development, which offers the elite. The peculiarity of the Russian civilization is that when the civilization matrix disagrees with the actions of the elite, a civilizational sociopolitical catastrophe occurs - a distemper. So it was in the beginning of the XVI century and at the beginning of the XX century, with the 1917 disaster of the year.


Why were needed Stalinist repression


For the sustainable development of Russia, it was necessary to shift the fundamental, basic principles, values ​​and ideals into real politics, the principles of economic management and everyday life. That is, it was necessary to materialize a new reality, the world of fairy tales. The Russian ideal of being - Bright (Holy) Russia, the City of Kitezh. The Russian dream was to become the basis of world reality, to give all mankind an alternative to the slave, bestial world, which was built by the Western "architects-masons". What defined history humanity for centuries to come.

To cope with this unprecedented task, which has no examples in history, the Soviet leader needed to solve several key problems. First of all, to approve the project of creating a new world, a future solar civilization (world order). And for this it was necessary to break the back of internal and external enemies, all opponents of the transformation of Russia into the civilization of the future.

A new world has just begun to be created, it was to materialize, become a full-fledged, strengthened and go on the offensive. Before that, it was impossible to give the old world on the basis of an unfair concept of living arrangement (slavery and all its forms, including capitalism) to suppress the new, to emasculate its essence, to make it its specific part, like false communism based on Marxism and Trotskyism. The Soviet (red) project during the most brutal Civil War was able to win over the White project on the basis of the Western development matrix. The victory of the Bolsheviks forced the great Western powers to temporarily abandon plans for the division and development of land and resources of the Russian civilization, to withdraw the occupation troops.

However, until the complete victory in 1920 - the beginning of 1930-s was still far away. External and internal threat determined the policy of the Kremlin. The old world tried with all its might to bury the new Soviet civilization. In Europe, aggressive, authoritarian, Nazi and fascist regimes, aimed at war with Soviet Russia, quickly matured. In the East, militaristic Japan led an offensive policy. And in Russia itself, a significant part of society still resisted the onset of a new era. There was a powerful "fifth column" in the country - Ukrainian and Baltic nationalists, Central Asian Basmachi, gangsters and nationalists in the Caucasus and Crimea, conspirators in the Red Army, Trotskyists and representatives of the "Lenin Guard" who seized power and who wanted to become the new elite of Russia, while on old grounds (power and wealth). It was necessary to break the philistine and kulak psychology of the townsfolk, the inhabitants of cities and villages. To create a new Soviet person, creator and creator, teacher and honest worker, warrior and philosopher, striving for the stars.

The Red Emperor was perfectly aware of all this. It was obvious that a new world war was brewing. The First World War did not resolve all contradictions, created new ones. The second stage of the crisis of capitalism began. The masters of the West set their sights on finishing off, dismembering and plundering Russia-USSR. Thereby extend its parasitic existence. The bestial law of the West - die you today, and I tomorrow; man wolf man The West is a vampire world that exists at the expense of killing, cannibalism, the resources and energy of other nations, countries, cultures and civilizations. The wolfish law of Western predators and strangers - to beat the backward and weak, rob and live at someone else's expense. You are backward, you are weak, although you can have a thousand-year history and culture, like India or China, it means that you are wrong, you can be beaten, enslaved and robbed. The strong West fears.

Therefore, Russia-USSR should have become strong, become a single monolith, without pests, parasites and traitors. Only a single, powerful Soviet civilization could stand in the face of Western and Eastern predators. To repel them, to keep the core, the center of a new, solar civilization. The societies of the future - the societies of knowledge, ministry and creation. Civilization, which could be a salvation for all mankind! There was no other way out! Or a leap into the future, or death.

Such is the historical truth. There is no "enlightened and civilized" West or East that is ready to help Russia disinterestedly. Only predators and strangers, ready to immediately sever civilization, eat and "master" the wealth of Russia. Any weakness immediately causes aggression and an attempt to enslave, destroy. All this is relevant today in the era of globalization and the digital world. Peacefulness and humanity are the lofty words with which individuals live, but not the masters of the West. Behind “democracy,” “human rights,” and “tolerance” lurk the very same capitalist predators and parasites that have unleashed all the world wars. Nothing has changed! Only a global concentration camp is already on “digital” rails, and the circuits are virtual, informational. But blood, millions of victims around the world, ensuring the prosperity of the "brilliant million" - are real.

Thus, Stalin solved the daunting task of overcoming the age-old scientific and technological, industrial backwardness in ten years and repelling an external blow. And this titanic task was accomplished! The USSR was threatened with the fate of the Russian empire — an external war and an internal coup organized by the “fifth column”. Soviet Russia coped with both external and internal threats. Russian red banners fluttered over Berlin and Vienna. And the “fifth column” was defeated and was unable during the Great Patriotic War to deliver a mortal blow to the Soviet civilization from within.

The myth created during the Khrushchev and Gorbachev “rearrangements” and supported during the years of the “reforms” that the Stalinist leadership did not realize the whole threat of the forthcoming war and did not prepare for it, is deeply mistaken and false. Like the opinion launched under Khrushchev that the Stalinist repressions are paranoid, mental costs of the struggle for power. Personal psychological complex "bloody tyrant." Later, under the “democrats,” it became fashionable to assert the criminal nature of the Stalinist communist regime. It is a myth that they gladly support in the West, placing an equal sign between Stalin’s Soviet civilization and Hitler’s Nazi regime.

In reality, both industrialization and collectivization (in general, the creation of a new advanced economy), the accelerated development of science and education, the creation of new armed forces, and the external imperial policy of the USSR — all this was aimed at strengthening the country's defense, repelling the external threat, preserving the Soviet (Russian) civilization and its development. Creating a new world of fairy tales. And such a part of domestic policy, like hard purges and repressions, was the destruction of the “fifth column” in the face of overt and covert enemies of the Soviet state, civilization and the project. It was a cleansing process that helped Russia survive and conquer the most brutal World War II. Unlike the Russian Empire, which failed to do this, the Stalinist empire prepared for war and was able to cleanse itself of pests, saboteurs and traitors. This was the basis of the Great Victory.

At the same time, Stalin "cleaned" the Soviet elite, did not allow her to rot in carelessness and complacency. Repressions did not allow the Soviet top to steal! Forced to work for the benefit of the whole country and the people! It is clear that this was a cruel method of selection, the upbringing of a new Soviet elite. But he worked, and there was simply no other under those conditions. The world is cruel at all (nothing has changed even now). It is not surprising that the Stalinist empire received a whole galaxy of brilliant organizers and managers, diplomats and military leaders, engineers and designers, scientists and cosmonauts. The Stalinist generation created a superpower, a civilization of the future, a basis for Russian globalization based on a fair concept of living arrangement for all people.and not only for the prosperity of the “elect”, a handful of social parasites. These people, real titans, created an empire that allowed living in relative peace, without hunger and total poverty, to a whole generation of people living in the wreckage of the USSR (Great Russia) - the Russian Federation, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other republics.

We can also recall another important function of Stalinist repression. Stalin not only did not allow the Soviet elite to decay and steal, but he was also able to recover large amounts of capital that had been illegally removed from Russia during the total plundering of the country after the 1930 revolution and the Civil War during the political processes of 1917. The capitals returned to the USSR in the form of machines, equipment, experienced foreign specialists, engineers, etc. All this allowed us to transform the country in the shortest time possible, to create its industrial base, to prepare for a big war.



In this way, the cruelty of Stalin’s policy was expedient, justified by the highest interests of civilization and the people. Resurrection involves death. Russian civilization, old Russia actually died in the year 1917. There was no other way to revive Russia. Another way is death. And before that, even more suffering - defeat, occupation, genocide. And as a result - the historical death of the many thousands of Russian civilization already in the first half of the XX century.
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Articles from this series:
Red Emperor and the "Soviet miracle"

What is the phenomenon of Stalin
How Stalin saved Russia
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  1. Grandfather 2 February 2019 05: 30 New
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    Why were needed Stalinist repression
    "-repression -..." seems to me that the "liberals" and other "counter", so called the fight against corruption. and they’re composing the present, about "insurmountable circumstances", ..
    1. CALL. 2 February 2019 07: 09 New
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      Why were needed Stalinist repression

      It is more correct to call these repressions "Yezhov." Why mass repression limits 1937-38gg. Because the most massive repressions occurred precisely in these years. But what happened before and after these years? In December 1936, the "Stalinist" constitution was adopted. This constitution introduced free alternative elections, out of several candidates. A huge number of party nomenclature, secretaries of the regional committees, opposed this. And preventive repression begins. Here one more factor coincided. Recently available materials confirm the collusion of Nikolai Yezhov, head of the NKVD 1936-1938, with Germany. Yezhov and his high-ranking accomplices, like the “right” and Trotskyists, hoped, in the event of an invasion of Germany, Japan, or another major capitalist power, to remain in power, albeit in minions. They tortured innocent people to obtain confession from them for crimes. Yezhov hoped that the mass extermination of innocent people would force the Soviet people to oppose the government. This would lead to conditions for an uprising at the time of the invasion of the country of Germany and Japan. In truth, the mass executions of almost 600 000 people in 1937-38, mostly innocent people, were deliberately organized by Yezhov and high-ranking party members-platformers in order to sow discord among the Soviet people and remove possible candidates in the upcoming elections and help Germany and Japan topple Stalin.
      1. CALL. 2 February 2019 07: 26 New
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        But what happened at the end of 1938, why did the number of executed people begin to decrease? On August 22, 1938 he was appointed first deputy, and in December, L.P. Beria, People's Commissar of the NKVD of the USSR. Simultaneously with these appointments, a new structure of the NKVD of the USSR was announced. Beria began to clean the apparatus of the NKVD, prosecutors and party organs from bloody ghouls. November 17, 1938 Beria L.P. signs an order that provides for the review of cases. January 31, 1939 Beria signs an order to bring to court 13 employees of the road transport department of the NKVD of the Moscow-Kiev Railway for unreasonable arrests. February 3, 1939 By the order of Beria, the head of the Zagorsky RO UNKVD of the Moscow Region N.K. Sakharchuk for criminal methods of investigation. On February 5, by order of Beria, a group of employees of the Special Department of the Baltic Fleet was arrested for unjustified arrests. For example, the most cruel investigator during the repressions of the 30s was Sofia Gertner, who worked in the Leningrad NKVD. For the "successful" identification of "enemies of the people" she in 1937. She was awarded a nominal gold watch, but it was Beria, who became acquainted with her methods of “work”, and ordered her to be taken into custody. In March 1940, she was shot. November 9, 1939 Beria signs the order “On Shortcomings in the Investigative Work of the NKVD Bodies”, in which he demands the release of illegally arrested people across the country from custody and establishes strict control over compliance with all criminal procedural rules. The Beria’s appeal came to the NKVD bodies, such only in 1939. there were 14506 people (45,1% of the total number of operational employees), criminal cases were instituted on 8627 dismissed. L.P. Beria "cleaned" the apparatus of the NKVD, put in it a relative order and in matters of investigation. A review of cases instituted under Berry and Yezhov began. And this work was entrusted to the NKVD under the leadership of Beria. Only in 1939, 330 thousand were released. the man and the review of cases continued. For 1939-1941 Beria’s department reviewed the sentences and released a third of all convicted, and this is more than 800 thousand innocent convicted.
        1. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 09: 48 New
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          Quote: Z.O.V.
          A review of cases instituted under Berry and Yezhov began. And this work was entrusted to the NKVD under the leadership of Beria. Only in 1939, 330 thousand were released. the man and the review of cases continued. For 1939-1941 Beria’s department reviewed the sentences and released a third of all convicted, and this is more than 800 thousand innocent convicted.

          And there is evidence for this. In the 20s and 30s, a certain Menshagin worked as a lawyer in Smolensk and the region. During the years of occupation he was the burgomaster of Smolensk, convicted Owls. court to 20 years. In conclusion, he wrote a book of memoirs. In it, he describes in sufficient detail the arrival of Beria in the NKVD and the consequences. According to him, Beria forced to review all cases in the Smolensk region. Cases brought for review "in the truck" there were so many of them.
          A large number of innocents were convicted for many reasons, and one of them was a poor legal education, and often its complete absence from investigators, prosecutors, and judges.
        2. Nick_R 2 February 2019 09: 57 New
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          You are not familiar with the topic. Most sat on political articles in 1946.
          1. Svarog 2 February 2019 13: 06 New
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            Quote: Nick_R
            You are not familiar with the topic. Most sat on political articles in 1946.

            Soviet propaganda deceived us, the face of capitalism is even worse than Soviet propaganda imagined to us ..
          2. aybolyt678 2 February 2019 13: 27 New
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            Quote: Nick_R
            Most sat on political articles in 1946.

            still would! with so many armed people in the country !! nothing surprising. And how many political articles were there?
          3. AU Ivanov. 3 February 2019 18: 25 New
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            Collaborators, Bandera, Vlasov. Hence the quantity
          4. goose 8 February 2019 14: 31 New
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            Quote: Nick_R

            You are not familiar with the topic. Most sat on political articles in 1946.

            What nonsense? There are official statistics, according to which% of criminals in the Gulag was overwhelming. So for what purpose do you need to reject the facts?
        3. Svarog 2 February 2019 13: 09 New
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          Quote: Z.O.V.
          . Beria "cleaned" the apparatus of the NKVD, put in it a relative order and in matters of investigation. A review of cases instituted under Berry and Yezhov began. And this work was entrusted to the NKVD under the leadership of Beria. Only in 1939, 330 thousand were released. the man and the review of cases continued. For 1939-1941 Beria’s department reviewed the sentences and released a third of all convicted, and this is more than 800 thousand innocent convicted.

          Beria, in general, was a very gifted leader, for whatever he would undertake, everything always worked out and brought to the end .. The atomic bomb is also a task that Beria was able to solve as soon as possible ..
          1. 16329 8 February 2019 18: 46 New
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            He was a gifted leader, but lost to the rustic-looking Khrushchev and the military from his support team, that's how it happens
            In general, it is time to end up rushing around with the Stalin era as something exceptional and worthy of imitation, in reality it was the period of the restoration of our country from the chaos of the revolution where it was plunged, including by those groups to which the future leader belonged, repression is not the main thing , the worst thing is that the Stalinist system could not develop a mechanism and a progressive system for the transfer of power after the death of the "red emperor"
            The Stalinist system also did not manage to create a stable elite, so we have what we have
        4. Alber 8 February 2019 09: 16 New
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          Quote: Z.O.V.
          But what happened at the end of 1938, why did the number of executed people begin to decrease? On August 22, 1938 he was appointed first deputy, and in December, L.P. Beria, People's Commissar of the NKVD of the USSR. Simultaneously with these appointments, a new structure of the NKVD of the USSR was announced. Beria began to clean the apparatus of the NKVD, prosecutors and party organs from bloody ghouls. November 17, 1938 Beria L.P. signs an order that provides for the review of cases. January 31, 1939 Beria signs an order to bring to court 13 employees of the road transport department of the NKVD of the Moscow-Kiev Railway for unreasonable arrests. February 3, 1939 By the order of Beria, the head of the Zagorsky RO UNKVD of the Moscow Region N.K. Sakharchuk for criminal methods of investigation. On February 5, by order of Beria, a group of employees of the Special Department of the Baltic Fleet was arrested for unjustified arrests. For example, the most cruel investigator during the repressions of the 30s was Sofia Gertner, who worked in the Leningrad NKVD. For the "successful" identification of "enemies of the people" she in 1937. She was awarded a nominal gold watch, but it was Beria, who became acquainted with her methods of “work”, and ordered her to be taken into custody. In March 1940, she was shot. November 9, 1939 Beria signs the order “On Shortcomings in the Investigative Work of the NKVD Bodies”, in which he demands the release of illegally arrested people across the country from custody and establishes strict control over compliance with all criminal procedural rules. The Beria’s appeal came to the NKVD bodies, such only in 1939. there were 14506 people (45,1% of the total number of operational employees), criminal cases were instituted on 8627 dismissed. L.P. Beria "cleaned" the apparatus of the NKVD, put in it a relative order and in matters of investigation. A review of cases instituted under Berry and Yezhov began. And this work was entrusted to the NKVD under the leadership of Beria. Only in 1939, 330 thousand were released. the man and the review of cases continued. For 1939-1941 Beria’s department reviewed the sentences and released a third of all convicted, and this is more than 800 thousand innocent convicted.

          They are still needed, repressions against such scum-executioners as Sophia Gertner, Zemlyachki-Zalkinda who carry out bloody terror against the Russian people.
          Fellow tribesmen of these Sofochki pour mud on Beria, whom they terribly hate, for not allowing them to carry out dirty deeds. I did not give to the end how they planned to exterminate the Russian people.
          Stalin saved the Russian people from the genocide organized by the Zionofascists ...
      2. oracul 2 February 2019 07: 52 New
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        Yezhov, as often happens in history, is just a “random performer,” whom life unexpectedly lauded and who at some point imagines himself to be foolish. Such were Khrushchev and Gorbachev and Yeltsin and others of lesser status, whose true competence was to destroy what was being built by others, and to consolidate itself in these ruins as a liberal and a democrat, an advocate of freedom, even when it brings grief to millions of people.
        1. Svarog 2 February 2019 13: 11 New
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          Quote: oracul

          Yezhov, as often happens in history, is just a “random performer,” whom life unexpectedly high

          Here you also need to say about the moral character of Yezhov .. He was a monkey man who drank terribly, had no principles and slept indiscriminately with everyone including men ..
          1. Campanella 6 February 2019 10: 38 New
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            Fully consistent with current Western standards)))
        2. CALL. 3 February 2019 03: 31 New
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          Quote: oracul
          Yezhov, as often happens in history, is just a “random performer,” whom life unexpectedly lauded and who at some point imagines himself to be foolish. Such were Khrushchev and Gorbachev and Yeltsin and others of lesser status.

          You do not have the feeling that they did not accidentally find themselves where they could inflict the most significant harm on the communist ideology and economy of the USSR.
        3. goose 8 February 2019 14: 36 New
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          Quote: oracul
          Those were Khrushchev and Gorbachev and Yeltsin.

          I do not like all three, but Yeltsin especially. He came to power on the head. He ruined the construction industry in the Sverdlovsk region, dumped all the blame on others and settled in a warm place in Moscow.
          Khrushchev is also good, but his behavior on a number of segments of history can be called exemplary, in contrast to the orc of Yeltsin. Khrushchev, it seems, really believed in what he was doing.
      3. Sergei 777 2 February 2019 08: 55 New
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        No, not right. For Yezhov is simply the executor of Stalin's will. And to associate Stalinist repression only with Yezhov is stupid. Repressions were before him and were after.
        1. Mcar 2 February 2019 09: 38 New
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          Quote: Sergey 777
          No, not right. For Yezhov is simply the executor of Stalin's will. And to associate Stalinist repression only with Yezhov is stupid. Repressions were before him and were after.

          Yes, they were before and after. But the scale of repressions "before and after" is not comparable with "hedgehogs":



          CALL. in general, he correctly outlined the picture, and if in one word to describe the repressions of 1937-38, then this word is CONSPIRACY.

          And further. The author for some reason did not specify, but I will not be lazy.

          Press - crush, repression - suppression. This time.

          Secondly, "The state is a machine for oppressing one class to another, a machine to keep other subordinate classes in obedience to one class. V.I. Lenin."

          Oil painting - repression, i.e. the suppression of the exploited class by the ruling, exist at all times and in all countries. Including in the Russian Federation. Right now, the ruling bourgeois class is repressing, suppressing the proletarian class in a variety of ways (taking away pensions is only one of them).

          It would be strange if the birth of a new formation - communism, were not accompanied by the suppression of those who are against, who want to continue the banquet, i.e. wants to continue to exploit their own kind.
          1. To be or not to be 2 February 2019 12: 06 New
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            McAr (Alexander) Today, 09:38 NEW

            Petty-bourgeois element!
            The petty-bourgeois element with the victory of socialism in the USSR has not gone anywhere in people
            She calmed down. Hid. . And she was waiting for her time. What will manifest itself in various aspects of the minor, from the banal theft and corruption of officials to the wrecking and sale of the motherland
            Officials, as its main bearers (allowed by the state to distribute goods), as if organized in their own class .. The bearer of the petty-bourgeois element. Penetrating into power. I pulled myself like myself .. A healthy state organism was amazed. and was sick ..
            "The petty-bourgeois element, with which we now have to wage the most stubborn struggle, is manifested precisely in the fact that the consciousness of the national economic and political connection between hunger and unemployment with the licentiousness of each and every one in the matter of organization and discipline is weak, which holds a firmly petty-proprietary view: I would snatch more, and there even though the grass does not grow.
            ... In a country with a huge predominance of a small-proprietary population over a purely proletarian population, it will inevitably affect - and from time to time it will be extremely dramatic ....
            .
            A social source of these types, this is a petty landlord who is furious from the horrors of war, from sudden ruin, from unheard-of torments of hunger and ruin, who hysterically rushes about, looking for a way out and salvation, hesitating between trust in the proletariat and support for it, on the one hand, with attacks despair - on the other. It is necessary to clearly understand and firmly grasp that no socialism can be built on such a social base.
            "(Immediate tasks of the Soviet government The international situation of the Russian Soviet Republic
            and the main tasks of the socialist revolution V.I. Lenin (1918)))

            "" In Russia, just petty-bourgeois capitalism now prevails, from which the same road leads to both large state capitalism and socialism, leads through the same intermediate station, called "nationwide accounting and control of production and product distribution. "
            ..The petty-bourgeois element is not for nothing called the element, because it is really something the most formless, indefinite, unconscious ....
            .. The spring events of 1921 showed again and again the role of the Socialist-Revolutionaries and the Mensheviks: they help the vacillating petty-bourgeois element to recoil from the Bolsheviks, to accomplish a "transfer of power" in favor of the capitalists and landowners. The Mensheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries have now learned to repaint themselves as "non-partisan." This is proven completely. And only fools can now not see this, not understand that we should not be allowed to fool ourselves ....

            ((On the food tax (The significance of the new policy and its conditions) V.I. Lenin (1921)))

            "On July 9, 1928, Joseph Vissarionovich remarked in his speech:" ... as we move forward, the resistance of the capitalist elements will increase, the class struggle will intensify, and the Soviet government, whose forces will increase more and more, will pursue a policy of isolation of these elements, the policy of decomposition of the enemies of the working class, and finally, the policy of suppressing the resistance of the exploiters, creating the basis for further advancement of the working class and the main masses of the peasantry.
            It is impossible to imagine that socialist forms will develop, crowding out the enemies of the working class, and the enemies will retreat silently, giving way to our advancement, that then we will advance forward again, and they will retreat again, and then "unexpectedly" without exception social groups, both fists and the poor, both workers and capitalists, will find themselves “suddenly”, “imperceptibly”, without struggle and anxiety, in the bosom of a socialist society. Such tales do not exist and cannot exist at all, in the atmosphere of the dictatorship of the proletariat - in particular. ... On the contrary, the advance towards socialism cannot but lead to the resistance of the exploiting elements to this advance, and the resistance of the exploiters cannot but lead to the inevitable aggravation of the class struggle.
            That is why it is impossible to lull the working class with talk of the secondary role of the class struggle ... ”(Stalin I. Works, vol.11. M., 1949, p.171-172). .. "
            1. Mcar 2 February 2019 12: 16 New
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              Quote: To be or not to be
              Petty-bourgeois element!

              She, darling, where to get away from her ...

              The beginnings of this same petty-bourgeois element begin with the desire to give society less and worse, and to take more and better from the general. Especially if no one sees, no one knows ... Are there few of them? Hmm, it’s better otherwise - how many others?
          2. the most important 2 February 2019 22: 25 New
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            Quote: McAr
            It would be strange if the birth of a new formation - communism, were not accompanied by the suppression of those who are against, who want to continue the banquet, i.e. wants to continue to exploit their own kind.

            In the Omsk region (and throughout the country), thousands of ordinary peasants were repressed. Whom did they exploit except themselves? The plan to identify the enemies of the people simply was. My grandfather, a simple peasant, also fell into this vent. He was then completely rehabilitated, but his life can no longer be returned. Blood in the hands of their fellow villagers on the NKV Deshniki Solopov (fate is unknown, but there is no such name in the region) and Deryagin (during the Second World War, he sat in the deepest rear, and then moved to Dnepropetrovsk). As a result of such bacchanalia, the leaders of the regional NKVD themselves were also shot. I don’t feel sorry for them. I believe that the advantages of one system over another system should be proved by an increase in the standard of living of the people, and not by mass executions. The fact that now there are a lot of crooks and criminals in power does not mean at all that it is necessary to shoot everyone in power. But to act in accordance with the law, regardless of the position, is simply necessary. It is hard to believe that when 30 billion are stolen, no one knows about it. But why wait so long before the arrest? Therefore, the class struggle should not be confused with the fight against criminality. Criminals must be severely punished. And the rich (honest business) just have to pay more taxes. And where then is the class struggle under such a condition? This is beneficial for everyone.
            1. aybolyt678 2 February 2019 22: 52 New
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              Quote: the most important
              The fact that now there are a lot of crooks and criminals in power does not mean at all that it is necessary to shoot everyone in power. But acting in accordance with the law, regardless of the position, is simply necessary

              If, in accordance with the law, someone needs to be shot, especially crooks and criminals in today's government, then these will be the most massive executions in the history of Russia. Unfortunately, they will be shot by other crooks, on whose side the law is temporary ..... They all have relatives whose children will remember, like, they shot my grandfather after Putin ....
              I also live in the Omsk Region, my grandfather was sent to be shot, but Stalin's article “Dizziness from Success” was published where he warned against excessive passion for executions, and he was released.
            2. Alf
              Alf 2 February 2019 23: 04 New
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              Quote: the most important
              A rich (honest business)

              And where did you see an honest businessman? The phrase "I can explain the origin of all my millions, except the very first" does not mean anything?
              1. the most important 2 February 2019 23: 08 New
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                Quote: Alf
                And where did you see an honest businessman?

                Unfortunately, honest people cannot get out of a small business into a large one. It's impossible. But I do not exclude that somewhere there are especially lucky who succeeded. Unfortunately, babies are milked to the last strand, while large ones steal in billions.
                1. ccsr 3 February 2019 12: 23 New
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                  Quote: the most important
                  Unfortunately, honest people cannot get out of a small business into a large one. It's impossible.

                  I completely agree with you on this, because I myself have been in small business for many years. Not to mention our perverted legislation regarding small business, there is also a certain psychology of IP, which must be taken into account. When a person himself, constantly communicating with his hired employees, makes decisions, he involuntarily takes into account their interests, and often such decisions sometimes harm the business, and nothing can be done because of our patriarchal relations.
                  1. Campanella 6 February 2019 10: 57 New
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                    You guys do not understand the main thing.
                    We have no market, we have no competition. I will not undertake to disassemble the world system, but something tells me that everyone there also has their own ceiling outlined by the world oligarchy and it is not easy to get into its circle, it is not rubber.
                    In Russia, business is simply tightly controlled, as soon as it begins to lay claim to the first lines of influence ratings, a proposal is made to buy it, if it is not agreed, it is destroyed. It is necessary to maintain our oligarchy power and stolen.
                    1. ccsr 6 February 2019 19: 29 New
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                      Quote: Campanella
                      In Russia, business is simply tightly controlled as soon as it begins to claim the first lines of influence ratings,

                      It was about a small business, for which the main thing is to survive on your own, and feed yourself and your family, provide education for your children, if they are capable. Some authors decided that the petty-bourgeois essence of small business is almost a threat to their vision of a just world, the truth is what they should be, they themselves do not know.
                      So believe me, this is not about small business ratings, but about the fact that our small business suffers not so much from the interests of big business as from the greed of small-town officials and the indifference of the authorities to solving problems in this area of ​​people's activity, which, by the way, helps to solve the problem employment of unskilled labor.
            3. Alf
              Alf 2 February 2019 23: 07 New
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              Quote: the most important
              But to act in accordance with the law, regardless of the position, is simply necessary.

              How can one act in accordance with the law, which the bandits themselves wrote for themselves? Who can be attracted under "irresistible circumstances"?
              Quote: the most important
              I believe that the advantages of one system over another system should be proved by an increase in the standard of living of the people, and not by mass executions

              And how to do it, if these very oligarchs do not give it?
              1. the most important 2 February 2019 23: 11 New
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                Quote: Alf
                How can one act in accordance with the law, which the bandits themselves wrote for themselves? Who can be attracted under "irresistible circumstances"?

                Unfortunately, I the most important in, and not in the whole country ... that's how I grow up a little bit, so I will answer you. drinks
                1. Alf
                  Alf 2 February 2019 23: 22 New
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                  Quote: the most important
                  Quote: Alf
                  How can one act in accordance with the law, which the bandits themselves wrote for themselves? Who can be attracted under "irresistible circumstances"?

                  Unfortunately, I the most important in, and not in the whole country ... that's how I grow up a little bit, so I will answer you. drinks

                  I understand your humor, but you can't do without purges.
                  As they say, beauty and mass executions will save the world. Beauty is more aesthetic, shootings are more reliable.
                  1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 5 February 2019 22: 46 New
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                    Who is entrusted to appoint the shot?
                    And yourself, at the same time, will you step aside in order to remain in a pure uniform in history?
            4. Mcar 3 February 2019 05: 57 New
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              Quote: the most important
              In the Omsk region (and throughout the country), thousands of ordinary peasants were repressed. Whom did they exploit except themselves?

              1. Throughout the country, not thousands, but hundreds of thousands. In total for 1930-1931, as indicated in the certificate of the Department for Special Migrants of the Gulag of the OGPU, 381 families with a total number of 026 people were sent to special settlement.
              Those. 1,5% of the rural population suffered repression.
              2. Exploited fists, world-eaters of fellow villagers. The villagers also dispossessed kulaks-exploiters. Here they, the villagers, knew better than you and me, who and what lives in the village.

              Quote: the most important
              My grandfather, a simple peasant, also fell into this vent.

              With all due respect, it means that not your “grand peasant” was your grandfather.

              A few years ago, on another site, one interlocutor was surprised - for something great-grandfather was repressed, he had only 8 horses. It seems today - "low" planted. But analyzing the events of the past, each time it is necessary to approach not with modern standards, but with those of those times. To keep one horse was a big problem - she only needed to feed hay, not counting oats, up to 5 hectares of hayfields. The question is, where would you get so much free land to feed 8 horses? The answer is obvious - the debtors also mow, and take away, and clean, and use. Only in this way it was possible to have 8 horses in one family.

              Quote: the most important
              Blood in the hands of their fellow villagers on the NKV Deshniki Solopov (fate is unknown, but there is no such name in the region) and Deryagin (during the Second World War he served in the deepest rear, and then moved to Dnepropetrovsk). As a result of such bacchanalia, the leaders of the regional NKVD themselves were also shot.

              And it was. Kinks on the ground called. Those responsible were punished, even to the point of execution. Now, unlike those times, the guilty, in the worst case, get off with conditional punishment, or even simply dismissal with promotion.

              Quote: the most important
              I believe that the advantages of one system over another system should be proved by an increase in the standard of living of the people, and not by mass executions.

              Mass executions are Lensky, Bloody Sunday ...
              The standard of living of the people increased, as never before in other times, neither before nor after. Do not you know?

              Quote: the most important
              It is hard to believe that when 30 billion are stolen, no one knows about it. But why wait so long before the arrest? Therefore, the class struggle should not be confused with the fight against criminality. Criminals must be severely punished. And the rich (honest business) just have to pay more taxes. And where then is the class struggle under such a condition?

              What ruling class is it now? Bourgeois. So what is it to be surprised that the bourgeoisie is not punished, as expected? The raven will not peck out the crow.
              1. Olgovich 3 February 2019 07: 13 New
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                Quote: McAr
                Fellow world-eaters were exploited by fellow villagers. The villagers also dispossessed kulaks-exploiters. Here they, the villagers, knew better than you and me, who and what lives in the village.

                What wildness are you preaching here?
                Only the COURT, and not an envious neighbor or official, has the right to punish a person — to take property and to exile with children.
                Existing laws USSR exiled and robbed peasants-NOT violated!
                1. Mcar 3 February 2019 07: 25 New
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                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The existing laws of the USSR exiled and robbed peasants-did not violate!

                  Speculation and usury.

                  Both that, and another was forbidden by the law. Punishment - the real term and confiscation of property. So with the fists - exploiters, money-lenders, speculators acted very humanely. If by law, then all of them would have been needed not in a settlement, but in a colony.
                  1. Olgovich 3 February 2019 08: 46 New
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                    Quote: McAr
                    Both that, and another was forbidden by the law.

                    Bring court decisions о violation of them laws, not chatter ..
                    Quote: McAr
                    So with the fists - exploiters, money-lenders, speculators acted very humanely.

                    Died 600 thousand exiled peasants.
                    Most of them are children.
                    1. Mcar 3 February 2019 08: 49 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Died 600 thousand exiled peasants.

                      In the Republic of Ingushetia, at least 2 million children under 5 years old died of hunger and malnutrition ANNUALLY.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Give court decisions on their violation of laws, not chatter ..

                      Chukchi is not a reader?

                      It was said in Russian - if they had acted according to the law, they would have been sent to prison, and not to a settlement.

                      Or would a colony be better? )))
                      1. Olgovich 3 February 2019 09: 29 New
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                        Quote: McAr
                        In the Republic of Ingushetia, at least 2 million children under 5 years old died of hunger and malnutrition ANNUALLY.

                        Lying. And- they were exiled and there they died?

                        And how does this justify the death of Hundred THOUSAND exiled children? They answered WHAT, eh?
                        Quote: McAr
                        Chukchi is not a reader?

                        It was said in Russian - if they had acted according to the law, they would have been sent to prison, and not to a settlement.

                        According to law-planned to do so. Lawlessness is a CRIME. And it was officially condemned by the very power of the USSR in 89-91
              2. aybolyt678 3 February 2019 07: 46 New
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                Quote: McAr
                Fellow-world-eaters of fellow villagers exploited

                under the primary Soviet power, if you remember, there were excesses with common wives, and in villages and gardens with kitchen gardens at kulaks were considered common
                1. Mcar 3 February 2019 07: 59 New
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                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  under the primary Soviet power, if you remember, there were excesses with common wives, and in villages and gardens with kitchen gardens at kulaks were considered common

                  And how many months did it end? In two? Three?

                  If you, like me, wrote in infancy, then this is not an excuse for the rest of your life to be considered sykuns.
                  1. aybolyt678 3 February 2019 11: 21 New
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                    Quote: McAr
                    If you, like me, wrote in infancy, then this is not an excuse for the rest of your life to be considered sykuns.

                    Exactly!!! laughing if you read "On some problems of building socialism in the USSR", you cannot even dream of communism without a system of training and choice of leaders. All the achievements of socialism in
                    The USSR is the merit of Stalin.
                    1. Mcar 3 February 2019 12: 06 New
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                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      if you read "On some problems of building socialism in the USSR"

                      They said “A”, say “B” - on the basis of what did you draw such a conclusion? What exactly do I not understand from Stalin's article "ECONOMIC PROBLEMS OF SOCIALISM IN THE USSR"?

                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      because one cannot even dream of communism without a system of training and choice of leaders

                      At the dawn of the transition from feudalism to capitalism, it was also impossible without leaders. However, as soon as capitalism settled down, no leaders were needed. It will be the same with communism. We simply did not have time to build it because of the internal and external reaction element. When communism wins, no leaders will be needed - society itself will look at the rare renegades dreaming of someone to exploit as geeks.

                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      All the achievements of socialism in
                      The USSR is the merit of Stalin.

                      It is what it is. We were just lucky. If someone else was at the helm, it is still unknown how everything would turn out. For example, if someone like Olgovich was at the helm, then he would have broken a lot of firewood, and he would have shot all Chechens, and he would have rotted his fists in Kolyma, etc. like that. Because it would be by law.
                      1. aybolyt678 3 February 2019 18: 20 New
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                        Quote: McAr
                        They said "A," say "B"

                        Dear Alexander! there was an article and there were problems. Namely, the regulation of the financial and production system. Where it is impossible to determine the real value with the cost price, and which requires a clear understanding of the system by all its members.
                        Today it would be real with the help of computer technology, and then only one person knew everything - this is Stalin. And all the mistakes of Stalin - from incorrect reporting from the field.
                        But life goes on, other issues are on the agenda, a completely different information background. In addition to the leader, a large media company with good specialists is required today. Where to get them?
          3. goose 8 February 2019 14: 39 New
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            Quote: McAr
            Yes, they were before and after. But the scale of repressions "before and after" is not comparable with "hedgehogs":

            That's right, but you need to clarify how many sentences were carried out. In 1938, Stalin imposed a moratorium on the execution of sentences before the decision of a special commission, which saved many lives. But still, Yezhov managed to execute many times more than his predecessors and followers in the NKVD.
            1. Mcar 8 February 2019 14: 53 New
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              Quote: goose
              That's right, but you need to clarify how many sentences were carried out. In 1938, Stalin imposed a moratorium on the execution of sentences before the decision of a special commission, which saved many lives. But still, Yezhov managed to execute many times more than his predecessors and followers in the NKVD.

              Exactly. More than once, including from historians, I heard that only half of the total number of people sentenced to VMN were enforced. But, unfortunately, I often hesitate to mention this, since I do not have exact data on how many were shot, and how many were replaced by different terms.
              1. goose 22 February 2019 09: 54 New
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                Quote: McAr
                But, unfortunately, I often hesitate to mention this, since I do not have exact data on how many were shot, and how many were replaced by different terms.

                I saw the exact data. In total, about 800 thousand sentences were issued for execution; at the time of the announcement of the moratorium and the creation of the commission, only 3,5 thousand sentences were executed. Subsequently, the commission worked until 1953, and confirmed about 15 thousand sentences. The rest were canceled.
                I must say that for the years 1935-1937 the NKVD actually became an independent political party, with all the consequences.
                1. Mcar 22 February 2019 10: 05 New
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                  Quote: goose
                  I saw the exact data. In total, about 800 thousand sentences were issued for execution; at the time of the announcement of the moratorium and the creation of the commission, only 3,5 thousand sentences were executed. Subsequently, the commission worked until 1953, and confirmed about 15 thousand sentences. The rest were canceled.

                  You say shocking things! In a good way, shocking.

                  15 from 800 is 2%. Or this cannot be, or ... shock. I understand that all our beliefs are taken from somewhere, brought by someone ... How and where can I see this data? Here, for things that I have known for more than a decade, they are simply terrorized with proofs. Already tired of looking every time a documentary answer about "twice." But for SUCH allegations without evidence they lynch here!

                  I would really appreciate a tip - where and how to see what you say.
                  1. goose 22 February 2019 10: 18 New
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                    Quote: McAr
                    How and where can I see this data?

                    This is the data from the rehabilitation commission led by Beria. Some of them are given in a note for Khrushchev on repressions, prepared to expose the cult of Stalin at the congress. The rest is taken from the modern research work of Yegor Yakovlev. This is the data of the NKVD archives.
                    The controversial part of this work is the pending cases of the repressed after the dispersal of the commission in 1953, there were about 80 thousand of them left.
                    As a general analysis, you can watch a video from the Goblin on Stalinist repression.
                    Starikov’s blog contains a scan of the 1954 note prepared according to the NKVD Khrushchev, there is a figure of 692 thousand VMN
                    https://nstarikov.ru/blog/23567
                    This number is underestimated.

                    I must say separately that many criminal articles of that time were considered political, and according to modern concepts do not fall under political articles. Their% in the sentences based on Yakovlev’s materials is about 85%, which indirectly confirms the figure in the note for Khrushchev.
                    1. Mcar 22 February 2019 10: 41 New
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                      Quote: goose
                      As a general analysis, you can watch a video from the Goblin on Stalinist repression.
                      Starikov’s blog contains a scan of the 1954 note prepared according to the NKVD Khrushchev, there is a figure of 2900 shot from among the repressed.
                      https://nstarikov.ru/blog/23567

                      The fact is that for about 10 years, everything related to the Stalin era interests me to the utmost. I watched the Goblin, by the way, very good stories about that era, I saw a scan of the note to Khrushchev, I know the corrected data from different researchers ... And there are not “2900 people shot,” there are 2. And this is just a clarification of how many were convicted by the courts, military tribunals, and how many triples, special meetings.

                      Quote: goose
                      I must say separately that many criminal articles of that time were considered political, and according to modern concepts do not fall under political articles. Their% in the sentences based on Yakovlev’s materials is about 85%, which indirectly confirms the figure in the note for Khrushchev.

                      And I already know that too. Political article 58 even included escape and refusal to work. Those. a thief, a gangster, a robber in a colony could become a “victim of political repression” simply by refusing to work - this was called counter-revolutionary sabotage. Such arguments are not proof for trolling crystal bakers.

                      Sorry. You were so reassuring for a few minutes ... and then on a grand scale. )))
                      1. goose 22 February 2019 13: 28 New
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                        Quote: McAr
                        Sorry. You were so reassuring for a few minutes ... and then on a grand scale. )))

                        I will make a reservation in advance that the repressions of 1936-1938 were considered. Repression of 1939, I do not consider.
                        The data on Khrushchev's note relate to the activities of the Gulag from 1921 to 1953, and this is as much as 32 years.
                        Have you read Yegor Yakovlev or Viktor Zemskov? They dealt in detail with the activities of the commission. There is evidence that more than 80% of those convicted during the years of repression were rehabilitated by 1940, and were outside places of detention. Of these, 1152 thousand people were rehabilitated in extrajudicial cases.
                        http://www.agitclub.ru/gorby/ussr/ussr1988.htm
                        https://www.politpros.com/journal/read/?ID=783 - Земсков
                        Given the number of repressed, and this is approximately 1,5 million people, it remains to determine the fate of the remaining 300 thousand people. It is known that according to the sentences of courts, tribunals and triples in the period 1936-1938, about 80-90 thousand pending cases remained for 1953, all of them were amnestied in 1953, except for an extremely small number of criminals. Those. roughly speaking, it remains to deal with 230 thousand cases with an incomprehensible fate. If the statistics on the articles for the remaining cases are similar to the general, then the share of VMN is about 57 thousand cases. Adding confirmed sentencing sentences here, we get the maximum possible figure of 75 thousand executed sentences according to the VMN for convicts in the period 1936-1938 (obviously high, in my opinion).
                        There is a very high probability that the sentences in these cases were not carried out, because because of the outbreak of war, the commission under the Central Committee did not manage to get to them to confirm the verdict, and all these people, after serving the extra 8-9 years, were released under an amnesty in 1953.
                      2. Mcar 22 February 2019 14: 28 New
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                        Quote: goose
                        I will make a reservation in advance that the repressions of 1936-1938 were considered. Repression of 1939, I do not consider.
                        The data on Khrushchev's note relate to the activities of the Gulag from 1921 to 1953, and this is as much as 32 years.
                        Have you read Yegor Yakovlev or Viktor Zemskov? They dealt in detail with the activities of the commission. There is evidence that more than 80% of those convicted during the years of repression were rehabilitated by 1940, and were outside places of detention. Of these, 1152 thousand people were rehabilitated in extrajudicial cases.

                        Yes, I know it.

                        The question is narrow: how many were actually shot from those sentenced to VMN in 1937-38., and how many was a replacement for different periods or an excuse?
                        If by 1940 a person was rehabilitated, but shot in 1937-38, then he was shot. Rehabilitation to this issue in no way.

                        Quote: goose
                        http://www.agitclub.ru/gorby/ussr/ussr1988.htm

                        All post-Stalinist rehabilitation - Khrushchev's, Gorbachev's are not credible. I have already cited an example: a criminal-recidivist - there is nowhere to put samples, he escapes from places of detention and becomes "political", the rehabilitation commission enters - escape ?! But is it possible to repress for such a trifle? - rehabilitate! I am convinced that both anti-Soviet terry and ordinary criminals fell under these rehabilitations. We would now have rehabilitated all the currency traders - just give free rein.

                        Quote: goose
                        https://www.politpros.com/journal/read/?ID=783 - Земсков
                        Given the number of victims of repression, which is approximately 1,5 million people

                        According to Zemskov, those sentenced to VMN for 1937-38. a little more than 690. But how many sentences of execution were replaced for different terms - Zemskov does not indicate or did not come across to me.

                        Quote: goose
                        There is a very high probability that the sentences in these cases were not carried out, because because of the outbreak of war, the commission under the Central Committee did not manage to get to them to confirm the verdict, and all these people, after serving the extra 8-9 years, were released under an amnesty in 1953.

                        Beria really stopped the repression and immediately began the process of testing and rehabilitation. But the time was severe and then not like it is now - the sentence passed did not “hang” for years, often hours, days, weeks, rarely months. So it could only be lucky for the part to whom the tower was taken out just before Beria was appointed head of the NKVD in November 1938.
        2. 11 black 8 February 2019 17: 14 New
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          Quote: McAr
          Secondly, "The state is a machine for oppressing one class to another, a machine to keep other subordinate classes in obedience to one class. V.I. Lenin."

          Given that this is Lenin’s personal opinion, it was the Soviet state that was such a machine (that’s what the “Theoretician of Communism” saw it).
          Quote: McAr
          Right now, the dominant bourgeois class represses, suppresses the proletarian class in a variety of ways (the removal of pensions is only one of them).

          Suppresses - this is unconditional. But the “Higher Measure” in the Russian Federation is abolished from the word altogether, so do not try to equate raising the retirement age and shooting hundreds of thousands of people.

          We have what we have precisely because the Soviet power with its “suppression” instilled in people the fear of power, this is what is now preventing society from “giving the teeth” a completely overlooked elite, namely, to create working trade unions, where all one after another ultimatums to the “bourgeois” are already set by the workers.

          But people are still so intimidated by the power that until these bright times as the moon on a scooter.

          PS is just my personal opinion ... and, in my opinion, raising the retirement age is a betrayal of the people by the "brightest", but this is still not repression.
          1. Mcar 8 February 2019 17: 47 New
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            Quote: 11 black
            this is just my personal opinion ...

            Opinion? Billions of opinions, but one truth.
            By the way, it is believed that the moon is 50 km away. Not yours, by the hour?

            You need to learn. And then the mess in my head is such that only the appearance of her tetanus can be enough. Get started now. What are your biggest cockroaches? With the state? So start with it.

            M.V. Popov "STATE". Workshop. Part 1.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni1OgrQed7k

            PS. Thanks are not needed. I'm already used to it.
      4. Nick_R 2 February 2019 10: 01 New
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        That is, it was necessary to materialize a new reality, a fairy tale world. Russian ideal of being - Bright (Holy) Russia, City of Kitezh.

        To build a fairy tale of the City of Kityaz on the bones of his people? In my opinion, someone is not all right with the matrix.
        1. naidas 2 February 2019 17: 04 New
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          Quote: Nick_R
          To build a fairy tale of the City of Kityaz on the bones of his people?

          What are your suggestions?
          Here either survival as a people, or the path of the American Indians.
          The Führer would have resolved the issue of Russian Indians in favor of real Europeans.
        2. Alf
          Alf 2 February 2019 17: 47 New
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          Quote: Nick_R
          To build a fairy tale of the City of Kityaz on the bones of his people? In my opinion, someone is not all right with the matrix.

          And on whose bones is modern capitalist Russia now being built? Check out my table.
          1. freddyk 2 February 2019 18: 18 New
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            Quote: Alf
            Quote: Nick_R
            To build a fairy tale of the City of Kityaz on the bones of his people? In my opinion, someone is not all right with the matrix.

            And on whose bones is modern capitalist Russia now being built? Check out my table.


            I must say that this is sad, modern Russia is on the bones, but it is not built. Unlike the Peter and Stalin times, when the people were really building material, but it was worth it. It can be added that Peter and Stalin did not care much about their personal well-being, but gave themselves in the name of their homeland. How can this be said about the current rulers
            1. Alf
              Alf 2 February 2019 18: 20 New
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              Quote: freddyk
              It can be added that Peter and Stalin did not care much about their personal well-being,


              It is interesting to see what the condition of the guarantor is ...
              1. 16329 10 February 2019 18: 24 New
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                And the daughter of Stalin, where Svetlana died, remind
          2. Altona 2 February 2019 21: 13 New
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            Quote: Alf
            And on whose bones is modern capitalist Russia now being built?


            By the way, no one has read such a "Russian" author?
            1. Karenas 2 February 2019 21: 59 New
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              Quote: Altona
              Quote: Alf
              And on whose bones is modern capitalist Russia now being built?


              By the way, no one has read such a "Russian" author?

              In fact, Solovyov does not hide that he is a Jew (Russian Jew), but for some reason he is strenuously rejecting the Khazars and the Khazars, which leads to suspicions ... He is on my list under the number one who speaks well of Lenin, but bad about Stalin ... Which fundamentally betrays him as a Jew and without his recognition ...
            2. tlSver4-KL (tat) 6 February 2019 00: 00 New
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              Altona (Eugene).
              Solovyov Vladimir, TV presenter and author of this book
              "We are Russians! God is with us!" much more Russian than many speakers on the Internet with comments in defense of those ghouls who destroyed the Russian people at the root (with children).
              And now they have started tyagomotin: according to the law, it was necessary to act with the peasantry, or, nevertheless, it was better for them - a settlement.
              The horror of reading these pearls is embracing and I want to ask: "Are you still human or have you stopped being them?"
              1. Killemall 8 February 2019 06: 39 New
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                We endlessly scolded Comrade Stalin, and, of course, for the cause. And still I want to ask - who wrote four million denunciations?

                - Sergey Dovlatov
      5. Alf
        Alf 2 February 2019 17: 44 New
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        Quote: Sergey 777
        Repressions were before him and were after.

        Compare the figures of the 30s and 90s, as well as the United States.
    2. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 09: 29 New
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      Quote: Z.O.V.
      This constitution introduced free alternative elections, out of several candidates. A huge number of party nomenclature, secretaries of the regional committees, opposed this. And preventive repression begins.

      It is appropriate to explain why she opposed this. The fact is that the main part of the party nomenclature was poorly prepared for housekeeping. They could fight, light fiery speeches, but alas, to manage the national economy. Therefore, in alternative elections, they flew by, i.e. remained without power. And they rushed to convince Stalin that it was too early to hold elections on an alternative basis, that there were still many enemies of the Sov. competent, capable of rubbing confidence
      to voters and in this way to break through to power.
      No one knows what Stalin was thinking there, and whether “repressions” took place at his direction.
      I do not agree with one, - with the word repression.
      Repression is a punitive measure on the part of the state. Those. legal prosecution.
      The arrest of the Arashukovs today is repression?
      This word carries a negative emotional connotation, and together with the word - massive, so in general - horror.
      Were innocent convicts? Undoubtedly. And today, when the intensity of the political struggle is much less?
      1. Strategy 2 February 2019 15: 07 New
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        They could fight

        They also did not know how to fight, they only knew how to drive people into battle. To be able to fight is not at all easier than managing. To be able to do something, you need to learn a lot!
        1. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 19: 47 New
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          Quote: Strategia
          They could fight

          They also did not know how to fight, they only knew how to drive people into battle. To be able to fight is not at all easier than managing. To be able to do something, you need to learn a lot!

          If they did not know how to fight, they would not have won.
          1. Alf
            Alf 2 February 2019 22: 15 New
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            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Quote: Strategia
            They could fight

            They also did not know how to fight, they only knew how to drive people into battle. To be able to fight is not at all easier than managing. To be able to do something, you need to learn a lot!

            If they did not know how to fight, they would not have won.

            There is a moot point. Until the ITT drove the nominees from the "old guard" away from command of the army, things went wrong in the war. But among the marshals of victory, almost all of those from the "new wave".
            1. Krasnoyarsk 3 February 2019 11: 26 New
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              Quote: Alf

              There is a moot point. Until the ITT drove the nominees from the "old guard" away from command of the army, things went wrong in the war. But among the marshals of victory, almost all of those from the "new wave".

              1. You do not confuse the secretaries of the regional committees, regional committees, district committees with the generals.
              2. What are the names of those whom Stalin drove away from command of the army.
              3. "New wave" did she arrive from Mars, or did she begin to "pull the military strap" from the First World War?
              You are not too lazy and compare the track record of our generals and German.
              1. goose 8 February 2019 14: 44 New
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                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                What are the names of those whom Stalin drove away from command of the army.

                Plyusanula, on the contrary, Stalin was known as a great liberal. There weren’t enough personnel and enough chances to show themselves again were given enough, even to those whom their army needed to drive in 3 necks.
          2. Strategy 3 February 2019 14: 36 New
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            There are no military winners in the civil war, there are political winners, that is, those who seized power. And the country lost ...
            1. Krasnoyarsk 6 February 2019 11: 29 New
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              Quote: Strategia
              There are no military winners in the civil war, there are political winners, that is, those who seized power. And the country lost ...

              What are you saying !? I did not know, did not know that a “political victory” happens with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. And the foreign intervention of twenty states? Is there also a political victory?
              And to whom did the country lose?
              1. Strategy 6 February 2019 20: 35 New
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                Civil War and Foreign Military Intervention - Feel the Difference!
              2. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 09: 46 New
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                Krasnoyarsk
                Is it really so hard to understand that the COUNTRY lost IN TIME ... Destroying its own citizens, the country was destroying its future, that's why we constantly lag behind the so-called "civilized-democratic" countries for 30-40 years !!!
                And the intervention? what question? thieves climb there WHERE WEAKLY GUARDED ... They must be destroyed; and so our grandfathers-great-grandfathers managed with intervention ...
                And now they come close, they smell the smell of blood ,,,
                which will soon spill.
                1. Krasnoyarsk 8 February 2019 20: 58 New
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                  Quote: tlSver4-KL (tat)

                  Is it really so hard to understand that the COUNTRY lost IN TIME ... By destroying its own citizens, the country was destroying its future, and therefore we constantly lag behind the so-called "civilized-democratic"

                  Do you really think that the people followed the Bolsheviks because they lived well?
                  Our people are very difficult to organize in the fight against power. The Bolsheviks only showed where to go, and the people were already "seething with indignant reason." Therefore, not the Bolsheviks are to blame for the civil war.
      2. Altona 2 February 2019 21: 18 New
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        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Repression is a punitive measure on the part of the state.

        ----------------------------
        Repression is not always a term or execution. Why do people constantly excite them? And unemployment is not repression, credit bondage is not repression, the inability to get an education or treatment is not repression? To pay low salaries and pensions, violating international obligations assumed - not repression? Ruining the province is not repression?
        1. Fevralsk. Morev 3 February 2019 03: 42 New
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          Dear Altona. All that you said is not repression. This is a GENOCIDE using economic methods. Long, tedious, but reliable.
          1. Altona 3 February 2019 11: 38 New
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            Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
            Dear Altona. All that you said is not repression. This is a GENOCIDE using economic methods. Long, tedious, but reliable.

            -----------------------
            This is understandable, I mean that this is the same restriction of rights and freedoms. You can call it anything you like and in any context, but it’s just a restriction of a person’s natural rights and freedoms and even the threat of his destruction.
        2. Krasnoyarsk 6 February 2019 20: 49 New
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          Quote: Altona
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Repression is a punitive measure on the part of the state.

          ----------------------------
          Repression is not always a term or execution. Why do people constantly excite them? And unemployment is not repression, credit bondage is not repression, the inability to get an education or treatment is not repression? To pay low salaries and pensions, violating international obligations assumed - not repression? Ruining the province is not repression?

          Repression, and even what. But ... hidden. The liberals of Volkogonov, gozmans, posners and this entire state-owned company do not trumpet them with all their might. And they, hidden repressions, are more dangerous, because they mow all ordinary people indiscriminately. And in the 30s, the majority, nevertheless, were not innocent lambs.
          1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 09: 57 New
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            Krasnoyarsk
            "And in the 30s, most, nevertheless, were not innocent lambs."

            “This is scary. It’s scary that such statements are made, completely irresponsible, for what only? To justify the need to torment and destroy the people in those terrible years?”
            What did all this lead to? to the humiliation of the country all over the world, to terrible poverty, to the eternal lag behind the countries ahead of them ...
            But we cannot be left behind: we need to protect people, give all opportunities for development, otherwise THEY (those who have prepared NOW for the jump) will not stand for a long time at the Russian border. They are preparing again nach Osten ...
      3. Sergej1972 3 February 2019 01: 06 New
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        Why, then, did Stalin not introduce a system of alternative elections, say, in the early 50s?
      4. tlSver4-KL (tat) 6 February 2019 08: 51 New
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        Quote "Krasnoyarsk"
        "Repression is a punitive measure on the part of the state. That is, prosecution under the law.
        The arrest of the Arashukovs today is repression?
        This word carries a negative emotional connotation, and together with the word - massive, so in general - horror.
        Were innocent convicts? Undoubtedly. And today, when the intensity of the political struggle is much less? "

        - Is NOW in RUSSIA not a democratic state? Is it not in the 1993 Constitution, drafted by Sergei Shahrai with the active participation of US civil servants, that the power of the people is promised? Let’s proceed from this ...
        1. When exercising the power of the people (according to the Constitution of the Russian Federation), can we really talk about repressive measures against the people by the state? Selectively, one-time demonstration.
        2. The arrest of the Arashukovs - the state’s fight against crime, the performance of a protective function. The people see too much injustice, so they made a spectacular detention - handcuffs in the State Duma Hall.
        3. Is the political struggle less intense today? The fact is that any political currents can be elected in the State Duma if the people support them. The people did not support Yabloko in the quantity they needed, they didn’t go to the State Duma, but they didn’t slip off the TV screens. And how many are now arrested (detained)? You ask neighbors and acquaintances who they "sit" for politics? and the picture becomes clear. But the Liberal Democratic Party and the Communist Party-they are in the State Duma, but how they work, such a return in society.
    3. Freeman 2 February 2019 13: 05 New
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      CALL. (Anatoly) Today, 07:09 AM
      It is more correct to call these repressions "Yezhov."

      Well, yes, but Henry Yagoda did not repress anyone. He was only engaged in “reforging” at the Belomorkanal construction site.
      Recently available materials confirm the collusion of Nikolai Yezhov, the head of the NKVD 1936-1938, with Germany. Yezhov and his high-ranking accomplices, like the “right” and Trotskyists, hoped, in the event of an invasion of Germany, Japan, or another major capitalist power, to remain in power, albeit in minions.


      Yeah. The same berry was accused of
      the commission of “anti-state and criminal crimes”, then also in “ties with Trotsky, Bukharin and Rykov, the organization of the Trotskyist-fascist conspiracy in the NKVD, the preparation of the attempt on Stalin and Yezhov, preparing a coup and intervention».
      / wiki /


      In truth, the mass executions of almost 600 people in 000-1937, mostly innocent people, were deliberately organized by Yezhov and high-ranking party nomenclature in order to sow discord among Soviet people and remove possible candidates in the upcoming elections and help Germany and Japan topple Stalin.

      Contemporaries disagree with you / sarcasm /
      And the enemy is wary, embittered and bitter.
      Listen: villains crawl at night
      Crawling along ravines, bear savages
      Nagans and bombs, cholera bacilli ...
      But you meet them, strong and severe
      Tested in the flame of the battle of Hedgehogs.
      The enemies of our lives, the enemies of millions
      The Trotskyist gangs of spies crawled towards us,
      Bukharinites, cunning snakes of swamps,
      Nationalists embittered rabble ..
      They rejoiced, carrying us fetters
      But the animals fell into the traps of Yezhov.
      Great Stalin's loyal friend
      Yezhov tore their betrayal circle
      .
      Disclosed snake enemy breed
      Through the eyes of Yezhov, through the eyes of the people.
      All poisonous hedgehogs snakes trapped
      And he smoked reptiles from holes and dens.
      The whole scorpion breed is defeated
      Hands Yezhov - the hands of the people.
      And Lenin's order, burning with fire,
      Was given to you, Stalin's loyal commissar
      .
      / People's Commissar Yezhov (From a poem by Dzhambul, the national poet of Kazakhstan)

      /
      1. Strategy 2 February 2019 16: 12 New
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        Well, yes, but Henry Yagoda did not repress anyone. He was only engaged in “reforging” at the Belomorkanal construction site.

        Participation in the construction of the White Sea Canal corrected many brains and made, if not outstanding, then famous and well-deserved.
        1. Freeman 2 February 2019 17: 49 New
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          Quote: Strategia
          Well, yes, but Henry Yagoda did not repress anyone. He was only engaged in “reforging” at the Belomorkanal construction site.

          Participation in the construction of the White Sea Canal corrected many brains and made, if not outstanding, then famous and well-deserved.


          Well yes. C / F "Prisoners" 1936. You can watch see the finale from 1:23:27

          1. Strategy 2 February 2019 18: 59 New
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            Yes, for example, academician Likhachev.
      2. kalibr 3 February 2019 14: 28 New
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        The akyn was able to lick, he knew what to say!
      3. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 10: 05 New
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        But the akyn sang about what his heart told him ...
        It is quite possible ... and became the property of history, a witness to that Desperate Time.
    4. Proxima 2 February 2019 17: 29 New
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      Quote: Z.O.V.
      Why mass repression limits 1937-38gg. Because the most massive repressions occurred precisely in these years. But what happened before and after these years? In December 1936, the "Stalinist" constitution was adopted. This constitution introduced free alternative elections, out of several candidates. A huge number of party nomenclature, secretaries of the regional committees, opposed this.

      Because the party nomenclature was aware that the Stalin Constitution gives every citizen of the USSR the right to vote (priest, Nepman, fist, etc.) But one nuance, the person who is convicted is deprived of voting rights. Therefore, repression is not a product of Stalin. What Stalin could do was reduce the repression (which he did). "Take it easy..rak" - these words were intended not only to Khrushchev. Repression is precisely the product of the shtetl nomenclature, which feared for its assess.
      1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 6 February 2019 09: 06 New
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        Proxima (Obolensky Sergey)
        - Disorders descended from the TOP, and the small-town ones, trying to curry favor, showed zeal, for which they received orders.
        No need to try to make people see Evil only from below, it spread from above, enveloping the GLY of the former Russian Empire. Akyn spoke well (left in the history of irrefutable evidence) about the best and most devoted friend of Comrade Stalin -tov.Ezhov. This is indeed the testimony.
    5. CALL! Yours “It’s more correct to call these repressions“ Yezhov’s. ”Why mass repressions limit 1937-38 because the most mass repressions occurred precisely in these years.”
      Where did you get this?
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%A3%D0%9B%D0%90%D0%93
      The number of prisoners of the Gulag from 1934 to 1953 look.
    6. businessv 8 February 2019 23: 04 New
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      Quote: Z.O.V.
      In truth, the mass executions of almost 600 people in 000-1937, mostly innocent people, were intentionally organized by Yezhov

      No wonder that period was called Hedgehogs, but I think that without the knowledge of the commander in chief it would be impossible! My grandpa and grandma. The kingdoms of heaven were repressed from the German Republic, which was in the Volga region, but even they recognized the correctness of this step taken in 1942! It was said that about 90% of the Volga Germans would become collaborators, so they relocated everyone who was sent to Siberia, mine to Kazakhstan!
  2. stalki 2 February 2019 07: 15 New
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    "-repression -..." seems to me that the "liberals" and other "counter", so called the fight against corruption. and they’re composing the present, about "insurmountable circumstances", ..
    right now Stalin is just missing, to “elite” to scratch. And then the nose was lifted up so that they do not see anything around them. And the fifth column underfoot, like rats snooping.
    1. Gardamir 2 February 2019 08: 01 New
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      not enough Stalin
      why do you need Stalin if you pray for the modern Trotsky?
      1. stalki 2 February 2019 08: 46 New
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        if you pray on the modern "Trotsky"?
        Yeah, would be Lev Davidovich. And so ....
        1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 10: 32 New
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          "... there would be Lev Davidovich. And so ...) (stalki sergey)
          - But in this yours, Sergey, lapsus, it would be worth reading and thinking. Do you know for what purpose Lev Bronstein sailed to the Russian Empire? And why did the militarist capitalists spend so much, collecting and sending a whole steamer with armed men in jackets and Mausers? But think, why would it be "America gave Russia a steamer" ?!
    2. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 08: 10 New
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      Increase the executions that he was talking about, and the bloodiest was Khrushchev. This is an example of toadiness + cruelty + meanness afterwards.
    3. naidas 2 February 2019 17: 07 New
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      Quote: stalki
      Now Stalin is just missing

      You would also have to set up the country's economy for 12 hours per rations. Until you raise, maybe the opinion about Stalin changes.
  3. major147 2 February 2019 09: 12 New
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    Quote: Dead Day
    Why were needed Stalinist repression
    "-repression -..." seems to me that the "liberals" and other "counter", so called the fight against corruption. and they’re composing the present, about "insurmountable circumstances", ..

    It seems to me that a screeching wave of “Putin’s repression” is gaining momentum. The mopped-up people wiped a lot of money, and the workers of the "second oldest profession" for stolen "silver coins" will write their mother under Khokhloma.
  4. nekromonger 3 February 2019 17: 29 New
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    Do you seriously think that we are fighting corruption?
  5. nekromonger 3 February 2019 17: 30 New
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    and Putin is not a contra for you?
  6. Vend 4 February 2019 09: 56 New
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    There was no other way to revive Russia.
    In a different way, Soviet Russia was already following this NEP, But what happened didn’t differ much from the Russian Empire + theft reached enormous scope. This had to be fought. But poverty did not disappear, it was right up to the collapse of the USSR.
  7. Quote: Dead Day
    Why were needed Stalinist repression
    "-repression -..." seems to me that the "liberals" and other "counter", so called the fight against corruption. and they’re composing the present, about "insurmountable circumstances", ..
    \
    ***
    It seems to me that you need to work with the lists of the repressed ... http: //lists.memo.ru/index2.htm Open, see for yourself:
    The author of the article is Samsonov Alexander. Samsonov Alexandrov repressed 25 people .... well, and what corrupt officials: workers, peasants, fists, priests, intellectuals, literate and illiterate ...
    Nonsense that corrupt.
  8. kiprei 24 February 2020 08: 35 New
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    Anyone who disagrees with the actions of federal or local authorities can easily fall under the repressive apparatus. Example: in Rostov, two years ago, an entire district of the city burned to the ground, they said that representatives of construction companies set fire to land for building and the governor said that whoever wants to leave the land for himself should be left, but in the end no one was allowed to settle there, someone was indignant, went out with a banner, return the land to the fire victims and then they planted him, so getting under repression is very easy, you just have to go outside with a banner.
  • lucul 2 February 2019 05: 39 New
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    Stalin was able to seize control of the country from the Zionists, having previously thinned their ranks.
    They will never forgive him for this.
    1. kepmor 2 February 2019 06: 08 New
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      the Zionists took revenge back in the distant year 85 ... and still rule in Russia ...
      read carefully the book "From the first person" ... there are many interesting facts and photographs ...
      those capable of analytical thinking can have a captivating solitaire ...
      1. To be or not to be 2 February 2019 16: 47 New
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        kepmor (Alexey) Today, 06:08 the Zionists took revenge back in the distant year 85. ?? ""

        "As the prophetic Oleg is now gathering revenge on the unreasonable Khozars, Their villages and cornfields for a violent raid. He condemned swords and fires;"
        A.S. Pushkin. Poems. "Song of the Prophetic Oleg"
    2. ver_ 2 February 2019 06: 42 New
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      ..the little one didn’t - * his companions * preempted him .. Human life was never appreciated by those in power .. A man was shot or killed - two fingers on the asphalt - and nothing personal .. There was no need for a direct instruction, words to the point don’t * sew *, ..
    3. Fevralsk. Morev 2 February 2019 07: 00 New
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      If we Russians do not succeed, even our fault is to blame for the Jews. Stop talking nonsense about the Zionists.
      1. back 2 February 2019 11: 28 New
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        Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
        If we Russians do not succeed, even our fault is to blame for the Jews. Stop talking nonsense about the Zionists.
        No, why, let them bear it. You can’t imagine how this nonsense is read from far away. And so it is quoted. Yours faithfully hi
        1. horlet 2 February 2019 11: 57 New
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          Yes, what are you? You read what the Zionists write about themselves! I will not list the list of authors here, you will find yourself on the net! Volodya “Solovechik” recently said that the Musk was founded by the Jew Musk and the Khazars “Kuev” were founded, and the Slovenes came to the Dnieper after the Jews!
      2. horlet 2 February 2019 12: 10 New
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        This is your Gussky - Russ is to blame! Nationality of modern rulers and oligarchs of the CIS to the Studio! In Kazakhstan, a column with a nationality in the International Passport was left! For a man who does not have a nationality is Mankrut and is despised in Asia!
    4. Do you believe in this dregs yourself? Are there any facts?
    5. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 10: 40 New
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      And what is clever uttered something, Vitaly? Do you approve?
      Too much blood in the hands of Stalin and his servants Yagoda and Yezhov.
      Read at least the “testimony” of akyn Dzhambul Dzhambaev.
      Already he described everything, portrayed with an artistic word. And here, in someone there is a passage, more than enough. And you can also find a separate poem about Yezhov, on whose chest the Order of Lenin for "merit" shone ..
  • Pessimist22 2 February 2019 05: 40 New
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    It’s clear now that Vavilov was from the fifth column, he wanted to introduce GMOs into agriculture and destroy Soviet citizens, and Gumilyov wrote all seditious things, that’s the “father” and decided them. Korolev and Tupolev were just wreckers, 10 years of camps were enough.
    1. 210ox 2 February 2019 06: 25 New
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      By the way, Korolev and Tupolev went on economic issues, on embezzlement. That in the current realities looks just ridiculous. Probably from the fact that there’s no "Stalin for many .. And what they wanted, discipline should take place, and at that time it was quite justified.
      1. Pessimist22 2 February 2019 07: 24 New
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        Yes, you are ready to justify any crimes for the sake of your idol. Pests is a political article for your information.
        1. naidas 2 February 2019 17: 18 New
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          You this, read the Queen case - they gave a term for embezzlement.
          1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 10: 47 New
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            ss
            Quote: naidas
            You this, read the Queen case - they gave a term for embezzlement.

            Near the Shnr-Khan, a juvenile jackal Tabaki was spinning ...
            and shouted: “And we are going to the North! And” we are going to the North! ...
        2. businessv 8 February 2019 23: 53 New
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          Quote: Pessimist22
          Yes, you are ready to justify any crimes for the sake of your idol.

          What does the idol have to do with it, or not? We are just expressing our opinion about the article! In my opinion, the article is good, about a man who left the Great Country, his personal boots, and his military uniform. Give an example of a modern ruler with such an asset?
      2. d1975 2 February 2019 08: 11 New
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        Dmitry, at that time they said that there would be a man, but there is a matter! Many people simply died innocent! My grandmother’s husband got into article 58, political. The hut was confiscated, and the mother and three children were kicked out in the cold! It’s good that the neighbor bought their housing and they returned to live there. There were terrible things, there were. Many were right, but even one innocent death from repression does not give rise to the resurrection of Stalin! Our people, as always, are consumables, even after many years. Yes, he did a lot of tyrants for the country, but how many he killed, how many simply died because they were different. And do not paint someone here, first of all, it is the fate of people. The reading of personnel in the army came sideways in 41, the Germans, by the way, skillfully used this. Stalin, as it turned out, was primarily morally unprepared for war. The advantage on the side of the enemy was on the face, many prisoners became precisely for ideological reasons. How did the leadership relate to people who visited the territory occupied by the enemy for at least a couple of hours? But what about stick attacks on the enemy? And by the way, my grandfather got 25! For his beliefs about the collective farm, but he was right and lived to see the collapse of this particular farm. The war, by the way, saved him, a penal battalion, then served with a divisional commander, knew how to handle horses, (a Cossack by blood, fought from 14 with Shkuro!). He went through the whole war, but he didn’t lose his convictions. But Stalin’s page must be correctly evaluated in history and that’s all, enough white and red, Russia all have one! hi
        1. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 20: 02 New
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          Quote: d1975
          Many were right, but even one innocent death from repression does not give rise to the resurrection of Stalin!

          No, well, are you a normal person? Did Stalin institute criminal proceedings against them? Stalin led the investigation? Stalin was the chairman of the court and sentenced?
          All this was done by investigators, the prosecutor's office and the court with the connivance of lawyers.
          Putin today is much responsible for the actions of all of the above?
          Stalin signed, or rather approved, court decisions on particularly significant convicts. But these were court decisions, not his decisions. And in the places of lawlessness was no less than today. Will you argue?
          1. kalibr 3 February 2019 14: 26 New
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            The good king did not know anything, of course!
          2. Stalin personally signed the execution lists. And I knew all the statistics. What pan are such servants. Everyone hesitated along with the party line!
      3. pru-pavel 2 February 2019 09: 02 New
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        “APPROPRIATE CONCLUSION in the investigation case No. 19908 on charges of Sergey Pavlovich Korolev under Art. 58-7; 58-11 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR.
        On June 28, 1938, the NKVD of the USSR for belonging to the Trotskyite, wrecking organization operating in the research institute No. 3 (NKB of the USSR), the former engineer of the said institute Sergey Pavlovich was arrested and prosecuted.
        During the investigation, Korolev found himself guilty of the fact that he was involved in the Trotskyite-wrecking organization in 1935 by the former technical director of research institute No. 3 Langemak (convicted).
        On the instructions of the anti-Soviet organization, Korolev carried out wrecking work to disrupt the development and commissioning of new weapons of the Red Army
        (ld 21-35, 53-55; 66-67, 238-239).

        By the decision of the Military College of the Supreme Court of the USSR of 27 on September 1938, Korolev was sentenced to 10 years of imprisonment.
        On June 13, 1939, the Plenum of the Supreme Court of the USSR overturned the verdict of the Military College of the Supreme Court of the USSR, and the investigation on charges of Korolev was transferred to a new investigation (see separate file of the trial).
        During the re-investigation, Korolev showed that the testimony given to him during the investigation in 1938 was untrue and false (ld 153-156).
        However, Korolev is exposed in the case materials of the investigation and documentary evidence that:
        In 1936, he led the development of a powder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo — devices with photocells — for controlling a torpedo and aiming it at a target cannot be manufactured by the central wire communication laboratory, Korolev, in order to load the institute with unnecessary work, intensively led the development of the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions .
        As a result of this test, four torpedoes built by Korolev showed their complete unsuitability, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more relevant topics (ld 000-250).
        In 1937, during the development of the side compartment of the torpedo (winged), he made a wrecking calculation, as a result of which the research work on the creation of the torpedo was disrupted (ld 23-24, 256).
        Artificially delayed the production and testing of defense facilities (object 212) (ld 21, 54, 255).



        Where is the frustration here?

        and by the way
        According to his statement to the Military Prosecutor’s Office dated May 30, 1955, he was rehabilitated “for lack of corpus delicti” on April 18, 1957 [16] [17].


        Well, according to Tupolev
        October 21, 1937 A.N. Tupolev was arrested on charges of sabotage, belonging to a counter-revolutionary organization. Along with him, many leading experts from TsAGI and OKB, directors of most aircraft factories, were arrested. On May 28, 1940, he was sentenced by the VKVS of the USSR to 15 years in prison. He was accused of creating a wrecking organization that handed over blueprints of aircraft to foreign intelligence. According to the testimony of the Chief Air Marshal A.E. Golovanov, in a conversation with him I.V. Stalin said that he did not believe in Tupolev's guilt. The incriminating facts considered by the investigation had nothing to do with the content of the sentence (the case was conducted by Gabitov, an employee of the 2nd Investigation Department of the NKVD). While in custody, he worked in the closed design bureau of the NKVD - TsKB-29 ("Tupolev Sharaga"). In July 1941, he was released from further serving of sentence with the removal of a criminal record. Tupolev was completely rehabilitated on April 9, 1955 [5].


        Where is the frustration here? What money did he spend, and most importantly, WHAT did he spend it on?
        1. chenia 2 February 2019 11: 41 New
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          Quote: pru-pavel
          Where is the frustration here? What money did he spend, and most importantly, WHAT did he spend it on?


          While there was a group of engineers working for nothing - Langemak, the Queen and her comrades did not touch. And the institute appeared on state funding, and after a bunch of promises and projections, for a couple of years they could only give out an imperfect projectile (130 and 82) with an assertive dispersion, I had to answer for the cut. And there they fell on each other.
          Well, Tupolev too. slightly decided to improve his material. for treasury bills.

          The principle is that previous merit does not work.
          1. pru-pavel 2 February 2019 13: 47 New
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            Then why the charges of sabotage, counter-revolution. Trotskyism? Or are you just throwing away the facts that do not fit into your point of view? And why if they sawed the money and the prosecution is fair, then they were acquitted, rehabilitated, and all charges were dropped?
            1. naidas 2 February 2019 17: 32 New
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              Quote: pru-pavel
              Then why the charges of sabotage, counter-revolution. Trotskyism?


              Then it was accepted — stole and frustrated the plan — why? I need to somehow explain.
              Then every thief of any suit is an enemy of the state, and therefore political.

              Based on the foregoing, accused
              KOROLEV SERGEY PAVLOVICH, born in 1906,
              harvest. mountains Zhytomyr, Russian, Mr. USSR, non-partisan,
              before his arrest - engineer NII-3 NKB USSR,
              in that:
              from 1935 of the year he was a member of the Trotskyist wrecker organization, on the instructions of which he conducted criminal work at the NII-3 to disrupt the development and commissioning of new types of weapons, i.e. in crimes of Article.Article. 58-7, 58-11 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR.

              He pleaded guilty, but subsequently refused his testimony.

              It is exposed by testimonies: Kleimenov, Langemak, Glushko; witness statements; Smirnov, Rokhmachev, Kostikov, Shitov, Efremov, Bukin, Dushkin and acts of expert commissions.
              Quote: pru-pavel
              why if they sawed the money and the prosecution is fair, then they were acquitted, rehabilitated, and all the charges were dropped?

              And you yourself don’t guess, the necessity and necessity of these people, they closed their eyes. They wouldn’t be needed, they worked out the stolen goods in the zone.
              1. pru-pavel 2 February 2019 17: 34 New
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                Well, where does the need come from? Do you think if they were not rehabilitated they would not work? Yes, they worked even in sharaga while in jail and serving their sentences. And in the wild, without withdrawing the charges, they would have worked even more so.
                1. naidas 2 February 2019 18: 50 New
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                  Quote: pru-pavel
                  Well, where does the need come from? Do you think if they were not rehabilitated they would not work?

                  Of course, they worked, not only in Moscow, but in Kolyma, at the Maldyak gold mine of the Western Mining Administration, in the so-called “common work.” (This is about the Queen)
                  1. pru-pavel 2 February 2019 19: 10 New
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                    Again you are wrong.
                    Korolev was convicted by the Military College of the Supreme Court of the USSR on September 27, 1938, the charge: art. 58-7, 11. Sentence: 10 years in prison, 5 years in rights. On June 1940, 8, the term was reduced to 1944 years in prison, released in 30. According to his statement to the Military Prosecutor’s Office dated May 1955, 18, he was rehabilitated “for lack of corpus delicti” on April 1957, 16 [17] [XNUMX].


                    He was released already in 44 two years earlier than the shortened term, and he was rehabilitated only after 13 years. And in any way, the lack of rehabilitation did not prevent him from working in the wild all these 13 years, and at the same time he worked all this time in profile, as well as in the zone in Tupolevskoy Sharag.
      4. Olgovich 2 February 2019 09: 32 New
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        Quote: 210ox
        By the way, Korolev and Tupolev went on economic issues, on embezzlement.

        They are rehabilitated.
      5. Antares 2 February 2019 11: 28 New
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        Quote: 210ox
        By the way, Korolev and Tupolev went on economic issues, on embezzlement. What in the current realities look just ridiculous

        June 7, 1938 Sergei Korolev was arrested. He was accused of the most difficult political article - the 58th, on two counts:
        58-7 - "Undermining state industry <...>, committed for counter-revolutionary purposes through the appropriate use of state institutions and enterprises, or opposing their normal activities" -
        and 58-11 - “All kinds of organizational activities aimed at preparing or committing crimes under this chapter
        The future General Designer was accused of joining the Trotskyite wrecking organization and carrying out criminal work to disrupt the development and commissioning of new types of weapons, i.e. in crimes of Art. 1935-58, 7-58 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR. Both points are firing. So the sentence, which Korolev, z / k 11, had already learned in Butyrka prison, at that time can be called “mild”: ten years in prison with five years of political rights and with confiscation of property.
        After eight months in the Novocherkassk transit prison, the 31-year-old “enemy of the people” was sent on June 1, 1939, to the Far East.

        Korolev was sent not to the closed SHARAGU KB, but first to the prison, where his jaw was broken during interrogations, which later caused his death (during the operation they could not put his tube in for ventilation), and then to the camp in Kolyma. And he got to SHARAGU already from the camp, it was lucky that the sitting Tupolev was the head of the diploma project with him and pulled him out of Kolyma to SHARAGU.
        And so they did with Glushko, Tupolev and many others ... but many were simply shot ...
        And now they are justifying, wood chips are flying ...
        But Glushko and Korolev might not have returned ... and there would have been no space and engines .. Their leader was then shot immediately. Kostikov taunted everyone ... (In early January 1938, Kleimenov and Langemak were shot for participating in an anti-Soviet Trotskyist organization and for wrecking, which consisted of slowing down the development of promising weapons.)
        all geniuses under execution ... excellent policy ..
        That is, the competition between the geniuses was replaced with random Russian roulette.
        1. chenia 2 February 2019 14: 44 New
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          According to the memoirs of the outstanding Soviet test pilot M. M. Gromov, "the arrests occurred because aircraft designers wrote denunciations to each other, each praised its own plane and drowned the other." A similar thing happened in other areas and acquired the character of an epidemic among creative, scientific intelligentsia. Some circles are embraced by real psychosis. People themselves "drowned" each other.

          Quote: Antares
          But Glushko and Korolev might not have returned .. and there would have been no space and engines ..

          Would be. because it was Stalin. And there would be other names.
          Glushko was a genius. And Korolev is a great organizer. And things went with the engines after the war, from sense after meeting with the FAU-2.

          The jet research institute filled up all the topics, and during the debriefing, everyone began to write to each other. And the showdown between the "Leningrad" and "Moscow" groups.
          Sergei Pavlovich Korolev sat down on a denunciation. This denunciation was written by the chief engineer of the Jet Research Institute (RNII) Georgy Langemak (protege of Tukhachevsky). Being arrested after his patron, he, saving his skin, began to drown his colleagues. In addition, the former head of the Research Institute, Ivan Kleimenov (also a protege of Tukhachevsky), with whom Sergei Pavlovich did not get along, was still writing to Korolev, while still being his deputy.
          1. Antares 2 February 2019 15: 49 New
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            Quote: chenia
            And the showdown between the "Leningrad" and "Moscow" groups.
            Sergei Pavlovich Korolev sat down on a denunciation. This denunciation was written by the chief engineer of the Jet Research Institute (RNII) Georgy Langemak (protege of Tukhachevsky). Being arrested after his patron, he, saving his skin, began to drown his colleagues. In addition, the former head of the Research Institute, Ivan Kleimenov (also a protege of Tukhachevsky), with whom Sergei Pavlovich did not get along, was still writing to Korolev, while still being his deputy.

            Kostikov against Langemak and Kleimenov. Korolev and Glushko tried to distance themselves there. But failed
            Kostikov on Langemak and Kleimenov and vice versa wrote denunciations. The party of Kostikov won. The losers were shot. During interrogation under torture, Langemak slandered a couple more. Korolev did not appear. First Glushko, and then they came for Korolev.
            And that’s all! Further blind fate and Stalin had nothing to do with it! The Queen everywhere was waiting only for death, he managed to survive only thanks to luck, chance and Tupolev.
            Stalin really helped him. To be on the verge of death and sentencing him to early death due to torture and a broken jaw.
            I can not forgive this system for the killing of scientists and inventors! No excuses and goals are worth it. People who have greatly benefited the country and humanity have been allowed to go under the knife. Humanity could lose people who moved people forward to the stars. And their fate was decided by ugly primates with torture and executions ... And now they are justified, they built Kitezh ...
            How can one justify such a system?
            I understand that humanity has always been driven by violence and the desire to get something, but here violence simply overshadows a reasonable framework.
            1. chenia 2 February 2019 16: 13 New
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              Quote: Antares
              I understand that humanity has always been driven by violence and the desire to get something, but here violence simply overshadows a reasonable framework.


              You search in the search engine -Oleg Lavrentiev- and see what was done. As the talented (then still a student) great scientific nuclear scientists dealt with (well, they didn’t kill naturally). And this is already Stalin and Beria, too.
              And when was it that a simple soldier wrote a letter to the minister and they reacted like that?
              This is the approach to personnel, and this is where the success comes from.
              But how poorly and vilely did the luminaries of science manifest themselves.
              And what a jar of spiders were scientific teams. And when there was no success, and the money was missed (and the times were strict, people took the penultimate penny — all for defense), here was everyone for himself, blaming everyone else.
              1. Krasnoyarsk 5 February 2019 17: 06 New
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                Quote: chenia

                You search in the search engine -Oleg Lavrentiev- and see what was done. As the talented (then still a student) great scientific nuclear scientists dealt with (well, they didn’t kill naturally). And this is already Stalin and Beria, too.

                So this is thanks to the "executioners" Stalin and Beria, he became a student at Moscow State University, got an apartment, a lift. And the great Sakharov stole the idea of ​​creating a hydrogen bomb from him.
          2. Krasnoyarsk 3 February 2019 11: 36 New
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            Quote: chenia


            The jet research institute filled up all the topics, and during the debriefing, everyone began to write to each other. And the showdown between the "Leningrad" and "Moscow" groups.
            Sergei Pavlovich Korolev sat down on a denunciation. This denunciation was written by the chief engineer of the Jet Research Institute (RNII) Georgy Langemak (protege of Tukhachevsky). Being arrested after his patron, he, saving his skin, began to drown his colleagues. In addition, the former head of the Research Institute, Ivan Kleimenov (also a protege of Tukhachevsky), with whom Sergei Pavlovich did not get along, was still writing to Korolev, while still being his deputy.

            And, of course, Stalin is to blame for all this !!!
            1. kalibr 3 February 2019 19: 30 New
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              Of course! To the first gingerbread, the first whip!
              1. Krasnoyarsk 3 February 2019 20: 31 New
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                Quote: kalibr
                Of course! To the first gingerbread, the first whip!

                Beautiful words, not necessarily the right words.
            2. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 10: 55 New
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              Stalin, with his secretariat clique, created that terrible atmosphere in which the "broth" was brewing. People rushed about, forced by terrible tortures to even incriminate their comrades. This is a misfortune, the grief of a society that has been hit by parasitic worms ...
              1. ccsr 7 February 2019 11: 54 New
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                Quote: tlSver4-KL (tat)
                This is a misfortune, the grief of a society that has been hit by parasitic worms ...

                Well then, tell me in more detail where the society struck by "parasitic worms" had unprecedented labor enthusiasm in the years of the first five-year plans, and mass heroism during the Great Patriotic War. Something I do not observe now in the era of "enlightened" Russian capitalism of such phenomena - apparently it is not the "worms" of Soviet society that matter, since the people are the same ...
          3. kalibr 3 February 2019 19: 29 New
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            And what a bank with spiders were research teams. And when there was no success, and the money was missed (and the times were strict, the penultimate penny was taken away from people, all on defense), everyone was there for himself, blaming everyone elseThe delightful heirs to the work of Lenin and the loyal Stalinists, the builders of communism!
            1. chenia 3 February 2019 19: 49 New
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              Quote: kalibr
              The delightful heirs to the work of Lenin and the loyal Stalinists, the builders of communism!


              What is so, such a dull and wretched conclusion (and who broadcasts is a former fighter of the ideological front, and you understand the reason for his breakthrough and collapse).

              Her!
              The classics of the genre are Mozart and Salieri. (And at all times, and in all lands).
              1. kalibr 4 February 2019 09: 19 New
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                Quote: chenia
                you understand the reason for his breakthrough and collapse).

                I also think that people are to blame.
            2. ver_ 5 February 2019 12: 37 New
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              ... * let it be to you .., the head is cracking .. * ..
      6. tlSver4-KL (tat) 6 February 2019 09: 28 New
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        210okv (Dmitry)
        "There is no" Stalin for many ".. And what they wanted, discipline should take place, and at that time it was completely justified."
        1. And "what did you want"? Yes, so that there wouldn’t be that nightmare that the Russian people went through under the leadership of the “Two Falcons”!
        2. "At that time it was justified"?
        Cruelty, the destruction of people can not be justified! What kind of slave psychology, Dmitry? Since it was authorized from above, then it was right. Try to remove the shading glasses of Time, peer into the distance, into the past, see grief and groans ...
    2. mole 2 February 2019 06: 36 New
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      Korolev and Tupolev are so simple pests

      But they did not pour mud on Stalin. Although they could. Why?
      1. stalki 2 February 2019 07: 12 New
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        But they did not pour mud on Stalin. Although they could. Why?
        Yes, because they understood that all this was a necessity. The smartest people were.
        1. kalibr 2 February 2019 07: 47 New
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          Were glad that we remained alive ...
        2. Krasnoyarsk 3 February 2019 20: 32 New
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          Quote: stalki
          But they did not pour mud on Stalin. Although they could. Why?
          Yes, because they understood that all this was a necessity. The smartest people were.

          Because they felt guilty for themselves.
          1. kalibr 5 February 2019 15: 15 New
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            No normal person feels guilty. Always blame others!
            1. ccsr 5 February 2019 18: 58 New
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              Quote: kalibr
              No normal person feels guilty. Always blame others!

              This is a classic with which you can blame anyone, but not yourself.
              By the way, many of the current fighters with Putin were the ones who shouted most of all “down with the CPSU,” and now they whine that they have not become millionaires.
          2. tlSver4-KL (tat) 6 February 2019 10: 02 New
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            "Because they felt guilty for themselves" (Krasnoyarsk)

            -Because they understood that it was EARLY AND USELESS to speak.
            Who would understand them then? They could only receive them by the next deadline.
            After 1953, how many years have passed? Khrushchev organized new repressions,
            And you all argue, blocking the RIGHT to homicide! you cannot and do not want to cease to be slaves of men, but shout what the Bible says about the servants of God ...
            And those who were able (thanks to friendship and fellowship with Him) to rise above circumstances, Christ called "FRIENDS".
            But slavery, many who consider themselves free, have not outlived themselves, it holds tight, not allowing straighten your back.
      2. AUL
        AUL 2 February 2019 15: 06 New
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        Quote: Mole
        Korolev and Tupolev are so simple pests

        But they did not pour mud on Stalin. Although they could. Why?

        You would have sat in Kolyma under a political article - for a long time the hunt would have discouraged chatting “for politics”!
    3. Olgovich 2 February 2019 08: 56 New
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      Quote: Pessimist22
      It’s clear now that Vavilov was from the fifth column, he wanted to introduce GMOs into agriculture and destroy Soviet citizens, and Gumilyov wrote all seditious things, that’s the “father” and decided them. Korolev and Tupolev were just wreckers, 10 years of camps were enough.

      PEOPLE is not trashfrom which you can “clean something. They are the same CITIZENS of the country as the“ cleaners ”.

      The overwhelming majority of the repressed are reaibilitated, and extrajudicial killings are condemned by the legislation of Russia.

      Such a number of executed internal "enemies" were nowhere and never.
      1. Antares 2 February 2019 11: 34 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        The overwhelming majority of the repressed are reaibilitated, and extrajudicial killings are condemned by the legislation of Russia.

        how many geniuses and minds were lost .. how many years were taken from the geniuses who survived ..
        the same selection for the worst - negative selection.
        I don’t understand the author ... well, I’ll condemn here I take into account here. But for him, even geniuses are nothing. And the people in general. The main thing is Kitezh !! Bright Russia ...
        It was a terrible time of change in consciousness and society. Today you are alive, tomorrow there is no and regardless of merit, genius, regalia - your fate is led by an illiterate investigator who breaks your jaw, even if you bring world fame and benefit to your country in the future, you risk dying if you accidentally did not help.
        That was such a system. At the same time, they could exalt a genius from the people (perhaps not for long, before the execution), and shoot the necessary and important scientists, specialists and other personnel.
        1. d1975 2 February 2019 23: 25 New
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          You are right, I agree with you, and even if they hang up the banner, when at last many will begin to think here. The minus is to put this one, write and realize the truth is another. The fact that Stalin is primarily evil, and fasting is different! One old man told me so, being almost there. That they did not start to beat the Germans until they themselves killed each other. And let the rest of the toadies be ashamed. These are unpatriots, these are the traitors who suddenly become Vlasovs or someone else! And how are we different from dill ?????
          1. ver_ 5 February 2019 12: 51 New
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            ... the mechanic-sweeper said to me-mechanic in 1975 * .. the time will come and you will learn a lot .... learn about Lenin .. This time has come and I learned a lot about this bastard and the bastard .... *
      2. Krasnoyarsk 3 February 2019 20: 33 New
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        Quote: Olgovich

        The overwhelming majority of the repressed are reaibilitated, and extrajudicial killings are condemned by the legislation of Russia.

        This is what finger you sucked it from?
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 10: 02 New
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      Quote: Pessimist22
      It’s clear now that Vavilov was from the fifth column, he wanted to introduce GMOs into agriculture and destroy Soviet citizens, and Gumilyov wrote all seditious things, that’s the “father” and decided them. Korolev and Tupolev were just wreckers, 10 years of camps were enough.

      I won’t talk about the Queen - I don’t know. But Tupolev distinguished himself - he was sent at the head of the delegation to the United States to select the type of aircraft we needed. They were there for a long time, the whole delegation returned with a huge number of suitcases with belongings, and they brought the blueprints, understandably not for nothing, only then all the design bureaus had to recount them to our system of measures for half a year. This is only one episode.
      Putin would not pay attention today - think, lard there, lard here. But Vissarionovich did not squander the people's money and did not give it to others. And who did not understand this, that "stroked" on the head. Someone in the "Gulag", and someone in the "sharashka".
      1. Olgovich 2 February 2019 10: 19 New
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        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        But Vissarionovich did not squander the people's money and did not give it to others.

        Tupolev is fully rehabilitated.
        Those. all accusations are bullshit.
        1. Antares 2 February 2019 11: 36 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          Tupolev is fully rehabilitated.
          Those. all accusations are bullshit.

          if it weren’t for Tupolev, there would be no one to pull Korolev out of the clutches of death, the USSR would have remained without the Civil Code.
          Tupolev pulled out the Queen, Glushko and many. Although he himself suffered.
          This man must be erected a monument twice ...
        2. ccsr 2 February 2019 11: 39 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          Tupolev is fully rehabilitated.
          Those. all accusations are bullshit.

          I agree with this - all the allegations are groundless, and were most likely a consequence of the actions of envious people, which, incidentally, is not uncommon in the scientific community.
        3. Cetron 2 February 2019 22: 05 New
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          Here, some people are ready to rehabilitate Vlasov, and Aloizovich (he was also defending himself from Stalin’s preemptive strike).
          Rehabilitation of the enemies of the people: this is a sabotage of the enemy of Soviet power Khrushchev.
          1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 11: 13 New
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            Oh and MGLA in your brain, gr. cetron (Peter).
            Here you can’t rake the biggest shovel!
            What does Vlasov have to do with it, he is from another OPERA, he is from traitors, obvious. And you also remembered the phrase - a preventive strike. Thanks to V.V. Putin, every word is remembered, right?
            Are you not one of the descendants of those who served in the camp guard?
            1. Cetron 7 February 2019 21: 39 New
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              No, of those who were destroyed on the spot and put in concentration camps for destruction. And also of those who fought to death with a brown infection. My father survived the 36th born, the mother of the 41st born, mother's grandmother and mother's uncle, was discharged due to injury and disability in the autumn of 1944. For me, the enemies that the external, that the internal are the same, are subject to destruction. Pity and forgiveness go sideways.
        4. Krasnoyarsk 6 February 2019 11: 39 New
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          Quote: Olgovich

          Tupolev is fully rehabilitated.
          Those. all accusations are bullshit.

          Under the political order, whoever needs to be rehabilitated. This is the first. And the second - Crimes of the past cannot be viewed from the perspective of today. For example, speculation was a crime before, today it is private enterprise.
    6. horlet 2 February 2019 12: 33 New
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      They were shot? No! Why didn’t they shot him? Having answered this question, you yourself will understand that it’s not so unambiguous in the repressions! Nikolai Gumilyov should not be attributed here! He died back in 1921 for allegedly participating in a conspiracy! Stalin has no direct relation to his execution! Although his Son Leo sipped grief! The name of Lev Gumilyov is the Eurasian University in Kazakhstan! Nazarbayev took his Eurasianism from Gumilyov, and Vova, as always, stole and passed off as his own!
      1. Mordvin 3 3 February 2019 20: 59 New
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        Quote: horlet
        Gumilyov Nikolai does not need to be attributed here!

        Well, let's assign Pasha-Mercedes that he was poisoned from fly agaric.
  • krops777 2 February 2019 05: 50 New
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    This label (Stalin's repressions) was hung on Comrade Stalin, although most of the repressions were by no means arranged by Stalin and this was a scientific fact, but by the same Yagoda and later Yezhov who, by the fullness of power, were at least equal to Stalin, only after the defeat of the fifth column in 37- 38 years old, Stalin began to possess all power.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. stalki 2 February 2019 07: 18 New
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        You don’t need to rave and refer to a science that you do not know.
        You would also return to reality lol
        1. kalibr 2 February 2019 07: 46 New
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          You do not know which way the doors open in the archives, and there you can write comments.
    2. wooja 2 February 2019 08: 08 New
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      correctly noted, until 1939, Stalin was only one of many ...., he did not pull the dictator and tyrant, there were no powers ... and posts, the leadership in the party and country was collective.
    3. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 10: 05 New
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      Quote: krops777
      This label (Stalin's repressions) was hung on Comrade Stalin, although most of the repressions were by no means arranged by Stalin and this was a scientific fact, but by the same Yagoda and later Yezhov who, by the fullness of power, were at least equal to Stalin, only after the defeat of the fifth column in 37- 38 years old, Stalin began to possess all power.

      Stalin began to possess full power only in 1941. And not before.
      1. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 10: 58 New
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        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        ..... Stalin began to possess full power only in 1941. And not before.
        It seems to me that during the USSR nothing was said at all, nothing was written about the processes within the party before the Second World War. So, some common phrases. For example, the elders say nothing about Stalin, as if there was none, as well as about Beria. Somehow bypassed.
        1. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 13: 19 New
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          Quote: Reptiloid
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          ..... Stalin began to possess full power only in 1941. And not before.
          It seems to me that during the USSR nothing was said at all, nothing was written about the processes within the party before the Second World War. So, some common phrases. For example, the elders say nothing about Stalin, as if there was none, as well as about Beria. Somehow bypassed.

          What does it have to do with it? You know very well that Stalin was elected in 41 and the Chairman of the GKO and Sov.Mina. Ver.Sov. only stayed with Kalinin. But the Armed Forces during the war did not solve anything significant. So, almost all the fullness of power, despite the fact that both GKO and Sov.Min. were advisory bodies, all power was concentrated in the hands of Stalin. And that was right. It could not be otherwise.
          1. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 15: 18 New
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            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            ..... Stalin began to possess full power only in 1941. And not before.
            It seems to me that under the USSR nothing was said at all, nothing was written about the processes within the party before the Second World War.

            What does this have to do with it ?.
            Despite the fact that there were no details, they tried to hide everything. And the details about Sverdlov and Trotsky’s revolts, and even now it’s not very known .... I have older relatives ---- party workers, however, I didn’t talk much with my grandfather, I left. But my grandmother 3 years ago just left, with a wit of mind and a solid memory, and I talked a lot with her when at school and then. All about that time and about repressions were hidden when they were, who did what, and then once-- - Stalin is to blame for everything !!!!!!
            Here's what I wanted to say. It's all about Stalin's slander. And pulling an owl.
            Because it was Stalin who made the country strong. If all its projects were completed, the country would be stronger than the states, the nuclear legacy, the hydrogen bomb are all from it. Also, industry, infrastructure, education. Also an indication of space, Stalin signed the creation of a working group. Although realized without him
            1. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 20: 26 New
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              Quote: Reptiloid

              Here's what I wanted to say. It's all about Stalin's slander. And pulling an owl.
              Because it was Stalin who made the country strong. If all its projects were completed, the country would be stronger than the states, the nuclear legacy, the hydrogen bomb are all from it. Also, industry, infrastructure, education. Also an indication of space, Stalin signed the creation of a working group. Although realized without him

              Absolutely agree with you.
              Well, you yourself think about how the “Pravda” message could fit in that “it’s repressed over the past month ...” etc.? Well, this is complete nonsense.
              And there were discussions in the party apparatus. And Pravda published articles and speeches on these controversial issues. And in the journal "Communist" and other party publications. For fun, look. And in Stalin’s MSS there are many answers to the discussion questions.
              1. Reptiloid 4 February 2019 19: 41 New
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                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Quote: Reptiloid

                Here's what I wanted to say. It's all about Stalin's slander. And pulling an owl.
                Because it was Stalin who made the country strong. If all its projects were completed, the country would be stronger than the states, the nuclear legacy, the hydrogen bomb are all from it. Also, industry, infrastructure, education. Also an indication of space, Stalin signed the creation of a working group. Although realized without him

                I absolutely agree with you ........ But there were discussions in the party apparatus. And Pravda published articles and speeches on these controversial issues. And in the journal "Communist" and other party publications. For fun, look. And in Stalin’s MSS there are many answers to the discussion questions.
                You know, it’s somehow difficult for me to do this, I’ve tried it since I came to the site. Time passed, but it didn’t get better. I only understood one newspaper with the speech of Stalin. And so ---- I don’t understand any names or positions at all. But I don’t understand many Soviet films. Although cartoons and Soviet songs with words (all different topics and contents) ---- I understand and love. I sometimes have thoughts — suddenly, after a few years, in general, no one will understand anything about the USSR, nor about the Revolution, nor about anything?
                1. Krasnoyarsk 4 February 2019 20: 09 New
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                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  You know, it’s somehow difficult for me to do this, I’ve tried it since I came to the site. Time passed, but it didn’t get better. I only understood one newspaper with the speech of Stalin. And so ---- I don’t understand any names or positions at all. But I don’t understand many Soviet films. Although cartoons and Soviet songs with words (all different topics and contents) ---- I understand and love. I sometimes have thoughts — suddenly, after a few years, in general, no one will understand anything about the USSR, nor about the Revolution, nor about anything?

                  In order to understand about the USSR and about the Revolution, it is advisable to read the materials of party congresses, verbatim reports. Very interesting reading for people interested. You, learning from verbatim reports who said what, who suggested what. What decisions were made on specific issues, feel the spirit of the times. Feel the full intensity of the political struggle. And of course, the primary sources. No other is given. And do not read all sorts of "dissertations" on the subject. They will lead you into such wilds.
                  1. Reptiloid 5 February 2019 08: 22 New
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                    Thanks, of course, only, apparently it will not work out for me soon.
        2. kalibr 4 February 2019 09: 21 New
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          I wrote to you how much - open newspapers of that time ...
      2. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 11: 21 New
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        And let me ask you two questions.
        1. When did the "leader" of Lenin-Ulyanov die?
        2. When was Lev Bronstein-Trotsky sent abroad?
        3. That's it. There were no other candidates for power.
        1. Karenas 7 February 2019 11: 35 New
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          Quote: tlSver4-KL (tat)
          . When did the "leader" Lenin-Ulyanov die?

          I'm interfering here ... Thanks to Stalin for keeping the bald Intourist on a leash for a year, with house arrest ...
    4. Freeman 2 February 2019 13: 34 New
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      krops777 (Alexey) Today, 05:50
      most of the repressions were by no means arranged by Stalin and this is a scientific fact, but by the same Berry and later Yezhov

      Again the "good king", ignorant of what the "evil boyars" are doing.
      Oh well...
    5. Fevralsk. Morev 2 February 2019 14: 53 New
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      The state is not a country. The state is an apparatus, a system of governing the country. There is such a legend, the French king Louis, I do not remember the serial number, said: the state is me. In the sense that he is the king, he heads the apparatus (system) of governing the country, and civil servants are his subordinates, for whom the head of state is responsible. I am a Stalinist. I wear a badge depicting Stalin on my clothes; his portrait is hanging in my house. But I say: Stalinist repressions and Stalin is to blame for them. He did not build a system of justice in the country, did not control the situation, and appointed the hedgehog as a public servant. Stalin is responsible. Socrates is my friend, but truth is more precious. And let me be banned for insulting my beloved Putin, I’ll say: all that is negative in our country is corruption, a recession in the economy, impoverishment of the people — THE GUILT GUIDE OF THE STATE.
      1. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 20: 37 New
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        [quote = February.Morev But I say: Stalinist repressions and Stalin is to blame for them. He did not build a system of justice in the country, did not control the situation, and appointed the hedgehog as a public servant. Stalin is responsible. [/ quote]
        Here the key should be the answer to the question - Stalin could not (failed during this period) build a justice system in the country and control the situation or did not want to? What did Stalin have to devote more time to building a system of justice, or industrialization, collectivization, etc., etc., etc.?
      2. d1975 5 February 2019 23: 00 New
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        Thank you for such a bold answer, where did the fish you wrote go out. I will not ban you or praise you, the truth is really more expensive. Truth is the truth!
    6. d1975 2 February 2019 23: 26 New
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      Well, read those educational program to us, how did Koba come to power?
      1. Krasnoyarsk 3 February 2019 20: 36 New
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        Quote: d1975
        Well, read those educational program to us, how did Koba come to power?

        Do you still not know? Oh woe to me, woe!
    7. Do not repeat the nonsense: Yagoda and Yezhov are Stalin’s proteges, conductors of the party’s line.
      1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 11: 30 New
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        Lieutenant Colonel, because it’s hard to constantly work on yourself.
        The Stalinists froze, they do not want to, and are even afraid to push themselves off from the “assignment”: then many questions will arise that need to be answered. And the answers can be very unpleasant.
        Therefore, the smartest people of the planet are accused of wrecking here (Tupolev, Korolev and other construction scientists), not having the ability to pull up and lift up due to the gravity of the Earth in order to see and understand that IT WAS GENIUS, which were destroyed simply by ghouls with fists.
        1. ccsr 7 February 2019 12: 06 New
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          Quote: tlSver4-KL (tat)
          Therefore, here the most intelligent people of the planet are accused of sabotage

          I consider KK Rokosovsky the most outstanding commander of the Great Patriotic War, and I put his talent above the rest of the Soviet military commanders. I have a simple question - do you even know why he was in prison before the war and how much it was justified before telling tales about how Stalin personally killed Soviet scientists.
          The fact that they were credited with fictitious accusations does not mean that they were innocent angels. I recommend that you study the activities of Tukhachevsky as the deputy commissar for armaments in order to understand how some "innocently" convicts harmed the country with their adventures:
          Everything seems to be simple and even trite: the adventurous inventor involved the gullible and enthusiastic marshal in the implementation of his technical adventures. but I believe that the situation is somewhat different. The fact that in Kurchchevka undoubted inventive talent was combined with fantastic adventurism is undoubted. But a marshal invested with enormous power over hundreds of thousands of people should be more cautious in approaching the ideas of a man who had already been burned up on dubious adventures (remember the story of a helicopter?). But the marshal, obsessed with ambition, not only did not do this, but even when the errors became apparent, instead of correcting them, he took the path of concealment first and then even more serious crimes. And therefore, we can rightly say that:
          It was not the engineer Kurchevsky who killed Marshal Tukhachevsky, but the marshal Tukhachevsky killed the engineer Kurchevsky.
          and many more other people.

          https://katmoor.livejournal.com/150417.html
      2. Karenas 7 February 2019 11: 38 New
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        Yezhov was promoted upstairs by Moskvin ... And, as I understand it, through his bed ...
  • Fevralsk. Morev 2 February 2019 05: 51 New
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    Samsonov Alexander in his repertoire. A lot of pseudo-Slavic and pseudo-Orthodox empty. The title of the article does not apply to the words written in the article. FANTASY in one word. During the reign of Stalin, the country had a strict military discipline, to which everything was subject, from Stalin to the ordinary collective farmer in Chukotka. There were no indulgences to anyone. Failure to fulfill a task or plan on time, causing damage to the state through negligence, being late for work is a crime. And no awards, titles, achievements in the past did not save from REAL PUNISHMENT and deprivation of all privileges. Yes, it was cruel. But the country was in a hostile environment, under threat of destruction. What do we have now? From the outside, a war is waged against our country - informational, ideological, economic. For the purpose of our weakening and submission. Inside our country is corroded by corruption. We now need Stalinist repression. The attitude to our official duties of our managerial elite resembles the elite of the Russian Empire during the First World War. How did it all end? And then on the VO website some individuals with foam at the mouth claim that revolution and civil war are not necessary. It is not necessary to create the basis for revolution by your actions. A pebble in the garden of our power.
    1. Same lech 2 February 2019 05: 56 New
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      We now need Stalinist repression.

      Yes, somehow it’s scary something ... suddenly, under this press, they push all the members of the forum into it ...
      some disgruntled comrade will write to the authorities that we are all pests and enemies of the people here ... and the punitive machine will not be much understood ... we’ll go all the way to Magadan and Kolyma. what both right and wrong.
      1. Grandfather 2 February 2019 06: 28 New
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        Quote: The same Lech
        .all to Magadan

        "... only not at Magadan-ento I can’t afford it! I’ll get there until now, I’m afraid of the“ oak ladies ”! Lenya Filatov (C)
      2. Antares 2 February 2019 11: 40 New
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        Quote: The same Lech
        dissatisfied comrade to the authorities that we are all pests and enemies of the people here ... and the punitive machine will not be much understood ... we’ll go to Magadan and Kolyma. what are both right and not right.

        to Kolyma if you're lucky. We all here call for the overthrow of the best system ... We also strongly support the "manufacturers of enemy equipment" and do not honor the party ..
        Yes, we are all here.
        1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 11: 35 New
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          How to understand this, Mr. Antares?
          1. Antares 7 February 2019 12: 36 New
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            Quote: tlSver4-KL (tat)
            How to understand this, Mr. Antares?

            we condemn the "enemy" technique and even complain that we don’t have one. What's this?
            That's right - "defeatism", maybe we are working for Japanese intelligence .. and we dig a tunnel into Stockholm and killed Comrade Kirov.
      3. Vladimir T 2 February 2019 13: 20 New
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        Dig a tunnel to Sakhalin.
    2. Alekseev 2 February 2019 08: 04 New
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      Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
      During the reign of Stalin, the country had a strict military discipline, to which everything was subject, from Stalin to the ordinary collective farmer in Chukotka.

      That's right!
      True, they also stole under Stalin, but with caution.
      The article is just for the ugly, for any more or less historically savvy citizen knows that the time of Stalin's rule (like other historical eras, and this period in particular) is contradictory ... yes
      Discipline, industrialization - this is good, famine and poverty, gigantic unjustified losses in the war, the insignificance of the value of the individual, troika, denunciations, torture - this is bad.
      Nowadays, “landings” are needed on the basis of court and investigation, adoption of a law on the basis of the UN Convention on Illicit Enrichment, and not repression.
      For the wise men who call for repression should think who will conduct them directly?
      It’s not Putin at all, who is now fashionable for ordinary people to beat for any reason, but your neighbor is a cop or an investigator, or else he’s just an authorized activist. They themselves were the first, clever lovers of Joseph Vissarionitch, and at a loss. Under Stalin, by the way, three members of the leadership (and there were many ordinary Chekists) were replaced by the OGPU-NKVD - the MGB, after they had completed their tasks and it was politically expedient for them to expend. Including "for extermination of personnel" ... wink
      Correctly writes comrade:
      Quote: The same Lech
      He won’t understand much ... everything will go to Magadan and Kolyma. both right and wrong.
      1. Olgovich 2 February 2019 09: 40 New
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        Quote: Alekseev
        They themselves were the first, smartest lovers of Joseph Vissarionitch, and at the expense of

        They do not understand this: they think. that if they shout “Glory!”, this will protect them.

        History teaches nothing: how before execution many praised the system, but did not help ....
        1. Antares 2 February 2019 11: 44 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          History does not teach anything: since before the execution, many praised the system, but it didn’t help ....

          yes it has always been so.
          The Great French Revolution ... execution scene
          The shot team sings “Marseille” and shoots those who also sing “Marseille”
          And how Robespierre Danton embraced and what kind of speeches he spoke to him (Best Citizen) and kept a denunciation in his pocket ... and he himself created a block under the block ..
          You can glorify a system while you are needed. In cases of something, the first system uses you for execution as an undesirable element.
        2. beer-youk 6 February 2019 14: 58 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          Nowadays, “landings” are needed on the basis of trial and investigation, adoption of a law on the basis of the UN Convention on illicit enrichment, and not repression.

          Strictly speaking, there was no repression (in the literal sense of the word). All decisions were made in STRICT accordance with the legislation in force at that time. Following your logic, you need to consider Chikatilo to be repressed - after all, according to current laws, he should sit for life.
      2. wooja 2 February 2019 10: 22 New
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        there was no discipline and order ... but they tried to restore
      3. Krasnoyarsk 6 February 2019 11: 46 New
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        Quote: Alekseev
        True, they also stole under Stalin, but with caution.

        Do you know this because you yourself did it in those days?
    3. major147 2 February 2019 09: 19 New
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      Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
      We now need Stalinist repression.

      Stalin did the same thing as Moses at one time, only by other methods and faster. However, not a word about the “Moses repressions”. hi
    4. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 10: 07 New
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      Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
      Yes, it was cruel.

      It was tough, but given the situation, it wasn’t cruel at all.
    5. ccsr 2 February 2019 11: 51 New
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      Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
      During the reign of Stalin, the country had a strict military discipline, to which everything was subject, from Stalin to the ordinary collective farmer in Chukotka.

      It seems so to you, but as it really was, you can learn from the memoirs of Hero of the Soviet Union I.I. Lezhov, who describes how different scum they avoided mobilization even during the war:
      1. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 11: 40 New
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        Have you watched the movie "Cranes are Flying"?
        1. ccsr 7 February 2019 12: 37 New
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          Quote: tlSver4-KL (tat)

          Have you watched the movie "Cranes are Flying"?

          I starred in it - as a crane.
  • Strashila 2 February 2019 05: 51 New
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    And what was different in other countries? In the same USA, the years of the great depression did not go with white gloves. The FBI simply shot the criminals without trial, sent the unemployed to labor camps, during the war years people with signs of Japanese blood were sent not to settlements, but to concentration camps, prosecutions of political opponents, witch hunts are not uncommon. So the term of repression and the famine going hand in hand with it is far from individualism of the USSR, but a world-class trend of that era. The question is different, how is this being presented today without breaking away from the realities of that time. And the bravura statements in the 90s of the notorious intelligentsia, as they dirty the Bolsheviks, are proof of this.
    1. kalibr 2 February 2019 06: 38 New
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      One can not justify one bad even worse. It is immoral!
      1. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 08: 00 New
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        Quote: kalibr
        One can not justify one bad even worse. It is immoral!

        Therefore, we must write 6 devastating articles about the US media, then another 6 about US farmers and US planters, another 6 about US child labor. Although, of course, Soros will not pay for it. Yes, and advertising probably will not work .....
        1. kalibr 2 February 2019 08: 05 New
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          Dmitry, the Soros Foundation is not operating in Russia now and it is impossible to get money from it. Do not write nonsense, if something you do not know for sure.
          1. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 08: 52 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            Dmitry, the Soros Foundation is currently not operating in Russia and it is impossible to get money from it. ....and.
            So I say that I won’t pay. I know it for sure
            1. kalibr 4 February 2019 09: 27 New
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              Then why write about him?
              1. Reptiloid 4 February 2019 19: 48 New
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                Quote: kalibr
                Then why write about him?

                Why are you asking? When I see you --- I immediately remember about him. However, not only I am alone. And in this way flood comments come out. Moreover, the situation may change.
        2. kalibr 2 February 2019 08: 10 New
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          As for the 6 articles, then, of course, all the topics you have suggested are very interesting. But I don’t have a habit of writing articles with a finger to my forehead. And I don’t suck the information out of my finger. All my materials are based on sources, even in those cases when they are not mentioned or mentioned in footnotes. Authoritative sources. According to the topics "Uncle Tom's Cabin" is not enough. But I do not have access to the American archives. And to search for relevant publications is difficult and time consuming. Well, will you help me with this? Then, with pleasure!
          1. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 09: 02 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            ....... putting a finger to his forehead. And I don’t suck out information from my finger ....!
            ????? !!!!!
            Apparently he will have to help himself learn about the United States. How's their KKK? That's repression, so repression.
            1. kalibr 2 February 2019 10: 16 New
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              Take care! There is an interesting magazine "USA and Canada", our Russian, academic. There you will find a lot of interesting things and not only about the KKK. Perhaps in a couple of years, you will become a good expert.
              1. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 10: 46 New
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                Quote: kalibr
                ...... There is an interesting magazine "USA and Canada", our Russian, academic. There you will find many interesting things and not only about KKK. ...
                Of course, I’ll read some books, but I’m still working, albeit irregularly, but I don’t always have work, so this is a priority
          2. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 10: 15 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            Authoritative sources. On these topics, "Uncle Tom’s Cabin" is not enough. But I have no access to the American archives. And looking for relevant publications is difficult and time consuming. Well, can you help me with this? Then with pleasure!

            Not every American will be allowed into the US archives on the theme of the Great Depression, not like you.
            There are about 5 lemons of the dead. From hunger and, you will be surprised, repressions.
            1. kalibr 2 February 2019 10: 19 New
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              There are so many publications of various universities! But it is necessary to seek to download or buy the paper version and read. The game is not worth the candle! And about the work in the archives ... Believe me, it's easier to get into them than ours!
          3. Alexander Greene 9 February 2019 23: 04 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            ... all the topics you proposed are very interesting. But I don’t have the habit of writing articles with my finger on my forehead. All my materials are based on sources. even in cases where they are not mentioned or not mentioned in footnotes.


            Very valuable saying. Finally, you honestly admitted that without copyright and rewrite you cannot write anything.
        3. Antares 2 February 2019 11: 46 New
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          Quote: Reptiloid
          Therefore, it is necessary to write 6 devastating articles about the US media, then another 6 about US farmers and US planters, another 6 about US child labor. Although, of course, Soros will not pay for it. Yes, and advertising probably will not work ....

          By the way, during the USSR, I read about famine in the USA, and about repressions in the USA and much more bad in the USA. About the homeland did not give anything bad to read laughing
          everything was bad in the USA. what
          1. kalibr 2 February 2019 12: 42 New
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            Exactly. The kingdom of God on earth was here!
          2. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 15: 31 New
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            Quote: Antares
            By the way, during the USSR, I read about famine in the USA, and about repressions in the USA and much more bad in the USA. About the homeland did not give anything bad to read laughing
            everything was bad in the USA. what
            That's right, there’s nothing to cry for the Motherland! But now everything has changed. Already thirty years so reckless read about the USSR, the Russian Federation. But about the states at different levels of praise and hope were, and our senators get up at the entrance of their senators. That’s why you are pleased.
            1. Antares 2 February 2019 15: 53 New
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              Quote: Reptiloid
              But now everything has changed. Already thirty years so reckless read about the USSR, the Russian Federation. But about the states at different levels of praise and hope were, and our senators get up at the entrance of their senators. That’s why you are pleased.

              wrong.
              About the USSR is true, about the Russian Federation is not true.
              On the contrary, the United States has bent, the dollar has bent, the West has decomposed, Russia wins on all fronts.
              The world is in admiration, everyone is striving for the Russian Federation.
              Seems not to have missed anything? Oh yes, the name of a genius ..
              And about the USSR they write nasty things .. It is possible.
      2. Krasnoyarsk 3 February 2019 20: 38 New
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        Quote: kalibr
        One can not justify one bad even worse. It is immoral!

        Just as it is impossible to evaluate events of almost a century range from the perspective of today!
    2. Alekseev 2 February 2019 09: 05 New
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      Quote: Strashila
      And what was different in other countries?

      Everything is everywhere the same, both in the life of an individual and in the life of countries, everyone wants the best. yes
      It is only a matter of degree — a lot of violence, loss, repression, or vice versa, development, success or not.
      1. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 09: 51 New
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        Quote: Alekseev
        ...... Everything is everywhere, both in the life of an individual and in the life of countries, approximately the same, everyone wants the best. yes
        But for some reason, only among our compatriots condemnation of their country. Or stupid modesty. For example, the states deliberately accepted the slave trade; they inherited it from previous times, from the depths of centuries. And nothing. No one repents. But now they are repressing entire countries, without trial. And ---- also no condemnation or repentance. There is nothing to understand, but it is necessary somehow to provide a standard of living at the expense of someone,.?
        1. wooja 2 February 2019 10: 28 New
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          politics .... but you are right .... just trading in blacks is a child’s amusement compared to Russian customs and mores of antiquity distant or not very distant
          1. Reptiloid 2 February 2019 10: 38 New
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            Quote: wooja
            politics .... but you are right .... just trading in blacks is a child’s amusement compared to Russian customs and mores of antiquity distant or not very distant

            Did you have sarcasm, or, sorry, didn’t understand? Probably, it’s sarcasm after all. It is one thing when countries have thousands of years of history and went through all stages of development and quite another - the history of the country in several centuries and nothing more.
          2. Antares 2 February 2019 11: 49 New
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            Quote: wooja
            just trading in blacks - children's fun

            both countries at the same time almost abolished the slave trade and serfdom (count slavery)
            True, the difference between the number of serfs and slaves is enormous.
            1. wooja 2 February 2019 11: 53 New
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              quality must also be considered ... white and black or white and white
              1. Antares 2 February 2019 15: 55 New
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                Quote: wooja
                quality must also be considered ... white and black or white and white

                I agree. Black loses in quality of mind, but excels in physical and ripening.
                True, the comparison of the then white and black is approximately equal. But the quantity is different.
                When compared with the Chinese, White begins to lose ...
                1. wooja 2 February 2019 15: 58 New
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                  it's not about the Chinese or blacks, it's about their "Russians"
            2. kalibr 2 February 2019 12: 43 New
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              One more such comment and I will also write to you about the money of Soros!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Cowbra 2 February 2019 06: 18 New
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    Two simple things.
    1) Russia before Stalin - an agricultural country, it is necessary to become industrial. Nobody, nowhere and never - by itself abruptly change your lifestyle does not burn. Only by force - and to drive into collective farms, and in the city. Otherwise, it will be kondovaya, but it is a thorough and homespun Rus in the yard.
    2) The mentality of the then agrarian Russia. Production discipline incompatible with the very concept. There’s nothing to even talk about - read Chekhov's The Intruder. The fact is well known that most of the jambs at the dawn of industrialization are connected with banal sloppiness! Also without tough measures in any way
    1. kalibr 2 February 2019 06: 44 New
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      Exactly. It was a process aimed at changing the mentality of the population, and carried out very quickly. The analogue is the “bloody laws” against vagrants and beggars in England after enclosing. That is why the repression en masse affected 60% peasants.
      1. Mcar 2 February 2019 08: 58 New
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        Quote: kalibr
        That is why the repression in its mass affected 60% of the peasants.

        What exactly do you mean by the word "repression" regarding peasants?
        1. kalibr 2 February 2019 10: 22 New
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          The fact that among the repressed 60% peasants. That is, of the total affected ...
          1. Mcar 2 February 2019 10: 38 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            The fact that among the repressed 60% peasants. That is, of the total affected ...

            You did not understand. What actions on the part of the authorities towards peasants do you consider repressions? List.
            1. kalibr 2 February 2019 12: 46 New
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              Alexander, this is a joke, probably? There are data on the number of people repressed in the USSR (execution, camp, defeat of rights, eviction). Among the people on this list are 60% peasants. What's not clear?
              1. Mcar 2 February 2019 13: 18 New
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                Quote: kalibr
                Alexander, this is a joke, probably? There are data on the number of people repressed in the USSR (execution, camp, defeat of rights, eviction). Among the people on this list are 60% peasants. What's not clear?

                Yes, no, you’re a joker.

                When you manipulate the consciousness of gullibles, are you joking like that?
                When trying to inflate an elephant out of a fly with its 60%, then in the same sentence indicate that the remaining 40% are not peasants. Then, and only then, is it clear what you meant. Otherwise, shock - if 60% or 1 803 392 people were repressed, then in agrarian Russia there were only 3 million peasants.

                And why don't you tell the truth? At least once in a lifetime? What is in the way?
                To tear off a vest on his chest, and to blur it out - "1,5% of the total number of peasants, and not peasants, but moneylenders, world-eaters who strangled peasants both figuratively and realistically, were repressed." And then to tear a vest on his back and add - "and this despite the fact that by 1927 there were about 5% of kulaks." How many peasants were under-dispossessed, those who know how to count themselves will calculate, taking away one and a half from five.
                1. kalibr 2 February 2019 13: 34 New
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                  It is not my fault that you do not know elementary things. I can recommend reading the magazines "Questions of History", "History of State and Law", "Homeland". There were articles on this topic indicating who the author is, and all of his titles. In addition, there is data from the archive of the RHF and the Martyrologist. And what do you think it is not interesting to anyone. I think everything.
                  1. Mcar 2 February 2019 13: 42 New
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                    Quote: kalibr
                    And what do you think is interesting to no one.

                    This is not, I think, contemporaries thought so.

                    Dictionary of Dahl:
                    Fist
                    The miser, the hunks, the Jews, the flint, the strong; || reseller, reseller, maclack, prasol, vaulting, person in the grain trade, in bazaars and marinas, he is non-cash, lives by deception, miscalculation, measurement; lighthouse eagle. eagle, tarkhan tamb. Varangian Mosk. a small-market bargainer, traveling through villages, buying up canvas, yarn, linen, hemp, merlushka, bristles, oil, etc. prasol, ashes, money ladies, gurtovshchik, a buyer and cattle raiser; peddler, peddler, scoop, see the offer. || Fist or cheat, fist, prasol. Flour swings, it swings. || Kulaks, kulachnost cf. occupation, hunting for a fist, embassy, ​​overbought, young lady.

                    Peter Stolypin:
                    “At present, a stronger peasant is usually turning into a fist, the exploiter of their fellow students, in figurative expression - a world-eater.

                    A.N. Engelhardt:
                    “... a real fist loves neither land, nor economy, nor labor, this one loves only money ... Everything in the fist rests not on the farm, not on labor, but onand the capital on which he trades, which gives out loans at interest. His idol is money, about the increase of which he only thinks. He inherited the capital; it was obtained by unknown means, but by some unclean means. ”
                    1. kalibr 2 February 2019 19: 59 New
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                      Dear Alexander! I do not need links to dictionaries. This is not my level. You should know that by the 37 year, there were no more kulaks left, all had been destroyed before. I wrote to you that my supervisor is Professor A.I. Medvedev. (about him on the Internet there is an article by Professor Kabytov, he was the rector of Kuibyshev University, and before that secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU of Moldova) proved with documents in his hands that only in Moldova and only according to the surviving documents 10000 peasants (heads of families) were repressed illegally, recorded in fists and "dispossessed" without any reason. And how many documents are not preserved ... And this was the case throughout the country. So I don’t need about fists, I don’t accept any doctor of historical sciences, professor, comments ... and in your case, thank you.
                      1. Mcar 3 February 2019 05: 28 New
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                        Quote: kalibr
                        only in Moldova, and only according to the preserved documents, 10000 peasants (heads of families) were illegally repressed, written in fists and “dispossessed” without any reason.

                        The villagers exploited the world-eaters-exploiters, and they somehow knew better than the supervisors who lived in the village and how. So do not hang noodles about "without any reason."

                        Quote: kalibr
                        I don’t accept comments from any doctor of historical sciences, professor, and in your case, please.

                        I will not fire.

                        What are you writing here?
                        ... the repression in its mass affected 60% of peasants


                        And in fact?

                        According to the 1926 census, the rural population in the USSR was 120 people. In total for 713-801, as indicated in the certificate of the Department for Special Migrants of the Gulag of the OGPU, 1930 families with a total number of 1931 people were sent to special settlement.

                        That is 1,5% were repressed of the total number of peasants. Do you feel the difference between the number 60 and the number 1,5? Or again a supervisor?
                      2. Mordvin 3 3 February 2019 05: 48 New
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                        Quote: McAr
                        The villagers exploded the world-eaters-exploiters, and they knew better than scientific

                        In, I remembered ....
                        But just before the scene, Abraham was stopped by the chairman with a sharp gesture:

                        - Wait, wait, Kuzmich, do not rise to us! ..

                        - Well, why? - taken aback by Abraham.

                        “Why the hell did you buy another camel on the third day?” - Sorokin answered the question with a question.

                        - It’s boring to Bukhara alone in the yard, so I bought a partner for him. Will the collective farm be worse off if I bring not one but two camels to the common yard? - Abraham grinned, still not believing that they were not joking with him, that he had made a fatal mistake for himself.

                        Someone (it seems, Karpushka Kotunov) shouted from the audience:

                        “And how many humps does a new camel have, tv Kuzmich?”

                        “This two-humped one,” Abraham answered willingly and cheerfully, in tone with the one asking,

                        - Well, you are fools, Avrashka! - the same voice was heard (now everyone saw that it belonged to Karpushka). - I’d buy a one-hump search, you see, everything would have worked out for you in a good way. Two humps - no luck! And three yes plus your own - this is too much, Abrash, this is twenty-two! For four humps you, my dear, will have to be extorted and sent to where you follow ... to Solovki al, where else ... together with Yashka Krutyakov and Timoshka Efremov, with all, to get down that we just approved here for dispossession and expulsion! .. I understand, you moron sort of ?!

                        - Who else was talking there like that?

                        “The most poor poor man!” - Karpushka responded lively and cheerfully.
                        https://e-libra.ru/read/148817-drachuny.html
                  2. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 11: 59 New
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                    Not all quotes have the right to life. The quote from A.N. Engelhardt that you quoted, Mc Ar Alexander, is completely unacceptable for the conditions of the former Russian Empire, where the fist was primarily a great hard worker and his whole family worked tirelessly.
                    1. Mcar 7 February 2019 14: 07 New
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                      Quote: tlSver4-KL (tat)
                      The quote from A.N. Engelhardt that you quoted, Mc Ar Alexander, is completely unacceptable for the conditions of the former Russian Empire, where the fist was primarily a great hard worker and his whole family worked tirelessly.

                      Without quotes, I can explain how the fist differs from the so-called strong peasant.

                      The watershed passes through 50%. What does it mean? This means that if the petty bourgeois, whom the peasant was, attracts hired labor, but the share of his own labor is less than 50%, he remains a petty bourgeois, i.e. strong middle peasant. And there were no questions for such people in the Soviet regime, with a rare exception, which was called "excesses on the ground." On the contrary, the authorities demanded special treatment of the so-called "cultivators", they tried not to even breathe on them, since there were few specialists who understood agricultural technology and agricultural culture. And as we remember - "Cadres decide everything!".

                      Fist is a rural moneylender. A vile, in fact, creature profiting from the grief and blood of the villagers.

                      I recommend:

                    2. tlSver4-KL (tat) 7 February 2019 18: 23 New
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                      But before your answer, gr. Mordvin, who spoke about the meeting of the Committee of the poor on dispossession. Everything is very clear and clear there, contrary to your statement.
                      You are completely unconvincing.
                    3. Mcar 7 February 2019 18: 34 New
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                      Quote: tlSver4-KL (tat)
                      You are completely unconvincing.

                      There was no such purpose.

                      Convincing someone makes sense if the person wants to make sure. Otherwise, it’s a job to drag a hippopotamus from a swamp.

                      You are in the dark, I gave the torch, you threw it away - not convincing ... and we both went our own way. By the way, good roads!

                      PS. The typo in the previous comment:
                      This means that if the petty bourgeois, whom the peasant was, attracts wage labor, but the share of his own labor is NOT less than 50% he remains a petty bourgeois, i.e. strong middle peasant.
  • Cowbra 2 February 2019 11: 05 New
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    But just a lot. For example, one simple thing that opponents of collectivization always miss. Private economy can produce WHAT? Mammals. That is, without collectivization:
    * No high-value farms. And this is not only multidisciplinary, it is simply irrational use of land. There are no crop revolutions, no sustainable farms. In fact - a return to slash-and-burn agriculture, depleted the land, sowing one wheat for 20 years - go further to cut the forest, but to sow unprotected. Personal agronomists and mechanization in rural areas are not needed - either a fist or a collective farm can pull this.
    * Immediately the entire selection or production is a little more complicated than butter-butter - forget it. Thoroughbred horses for an outdated cavalry? Selection varieties of grapes, apples, but in general selection of something? In the courtyard of Panas ?!
    In the shortest possible time, the division of farms into even smaller ones - within one generation - and famine in the countryside, and the country is agricultural, I recall.
    ----------------
    But to at least prevent this. here I galloped to the tops at a gallop - only repressive methods, the peasant will never give up the earth, driven into the subcortex even now, since the land is not mine - it is alien, the land may have one owner, or it will be a draw. I can’t see Pan, the land seems to be not mine, collective farm ... And it started.
    1. Mcar 2 February 2019 11: 32 New
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      Quote: Cowbra
      But to at least prevent this. here I galloped to the tops at a gallop - only repressive methods, the peasant will never give up the earth, driven into the subcortex even now, since the land is not mine - it is alien, the land may have one owner, or it will be a draw. I can’t see Pan, the land seems to be not mine, collective farm ... And it started.

      "Rushed", this is because consciousness is not communal, but petty bourgeois. There could be no other - communism is growing out of capitalism, and it takes a long time, several generations to form a new, communist consciousness.

      As for “the peasant will never give up the earth, driven into the subcortex”, then you, like the majority on this score, are captive to liberal myths.

      In the total area of ​​allotment land in 1905, communal lands accounted for 81%, and 19% for farmlands. 4/5 of the cultivated land is communal, and you say "it will not give." Yes, most peasants never owned land! Where is "driven into the subcortex"? Incidentally, this is one of the reasons why the Stolypin land reform, in fact, failed - the peasants themselves were against land ownership.

      Community land was cultivated by the entire community, as in future collective farms. The difference is that in the community each family has a strip from the common field, and on the collective farm the whole field was cultivated with a herd. And if everyone in the community knew that a year, two, three would be a redistribution, then another wedge would be got, and if so, then there would be nothing to take care of the land, then the collective farm would be a completely different matter - there would be no redivision and it would be profitable to cultivate the land . Well, and the collective itself, if friendly, will easily identify possible loafers as in the motto: "You can’t, we will teach, you don’t want to, we will force you to disgrace the squad!"
      1. Cowbra 2 February 2019 11: 52 New
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        then you, like most on this score, are held captive by liberal myths

        Well, let me argue with you. And it's easier, not with examples from textbooks, from life. See: Recreation center alone, Tula region, beginning of the 90s. It has its own fleet, a couple of buses, an ambulance, an UAZ, a fire truck from the base. Money began to dance there, too, the beginning of the recreation center allowed the drivers to park their cars, and use them, just let me know where, for how long, so that I know, go ahead. But your gasoline is there, leaving ... And the couple abruptly got on wheels and UAZ got up, and PAZik, and LAZ seemed to be completely dead ... We’ll lick something out, let it not belong, just use it. And what I drove BEFORE this one - I could take the same PAZik, practically hehe - "Earrings, well, I need to take the potatoes," but then I had to return them to the garage ... Already in the head - "not mine." Then I did not start at 5 in the morning on the flight ... And I have nothing to do with it - not my hut.
        Pure psychology. When I’m standing under the window, 200 meters from the garage, it’s already mine, and I’ll lick it to shine, even now in Paris-Dakar.
        -------
        And I will give a bunch of such examples from life
        1. Cowbra 2 February 2019 12: 08 New
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          And yes, I actually spoke of what. Just the opposite, that had to break HERE THIS mentality !!!

          And how deep it sits in us - there’s an example above
          but petty bourgeois. There could not be another - communism is growing out of capitalism, and it takes a long time, several generations to form a new, communist consciousness.

          In time - maybe. And so - the anarchy, characteristic of the peasantry - the extreme left, diametrically opposed to the extreme right - communism. To socialism also, just socialism is not extreme, but another wing, the opposite. And anarchy is an extreme degree of democracy, the peasantry is always anarchic, no one decides for us, and in its burrow the gopher is the master
          1. Mcar 2 February 2019 12: 50 New
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            Quote: Cowbra
            And so - the anarchy characteristic of the peasantry - the extreme left, diametrically opposed to the extreme right - communism. To socialism also, just socialism is not extreme, but another wing, the opposite. And anarchy is an extreme degree of democracy, the peasantry is always anarchic, no one decides for us, and in its burrow the gopher is the master

            Something you all mixed up, do not find?

            Right to capitalism, and left to communism. But in the right and left, that is still a hodgepodge. Moreover, in one (especially the left) wing of the irreconcilable right up to the squabble, there is more than enough. Because the class consciousness is poorly developed. That's what they need to unite - in the interests of the class, and the feud should be forgotten.

            Anarchists gravitate towards the left, only confused. They say: the individual will be free, and society will be free. And this is fundamentally wrong, utopian. Communists say: society will be free, and the individual will be free. And so it can only be.

            The peasant consciousness is petty-bourgeois, since the peasant is the petty bourgeois. Owns the means of production, can attract wage labor - the classic petty bourgeois.

            But socialism is communism, just not yet mature. It is like a person - while the little one is called a child, and how he grows up - by a person. But a child is considered a person from birth. So is socialism — it is communism, but still small, not developed.

            And most importantly, a person’s presence in a particular social class and his views are two different things and can differ greatly. For example, Engels, Marx, Lenin, Tolstoy, the list can be continued for a long time, they were socially in the bourgeois class, but their views and social position were proletarian.
            1. Cowbra 2 February 2019 13: 14 New
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              Here you have the correct addition. The point is that I also taught political science, I remember the division into right and left during the French Revolution, where it came from, it’s exactly the opposite, the left is a Republican, and the right is a monarchist. But I’ll remind you. that the right now, in the media, is a synonym for the totalitarian regime, the rule of the dictator, and the left has long been a synonym for ... Opponents of the dictatorship. The reference point has changed. The monarchy is also constitutional, how is it about Naglia? "Raines, bat note roll?" - reigns, but does not rule. And in that country, which was proud of the fact that it is the stronghold of the will of the whole people ... There are Praetorians - the Marine Corps, not subordinate to Congress, the personal guard of the president ... It’s praetorium. Acting presidential decrees to suppress dissatisfied, are examples really needed? For this, executions on a rainy night near deported cars are not necessary. Venezuela, by the way, is an example)
              So there is such a division too - it is based on the relationship of the PERSONAL and PUBLIC. When personal means nothing, the interests of society are extremely right. When on the contrary, everything for the sake of unity is extremely left. Did not hear?
              1. Mcar 2 February 2019 13: 31 New
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                Quote: Cowbra
                So there is such a division too - it is based on the relationship of the PERSONAL and PUBLIC. When personal means nothing, the interests of society are extremely right. When on the contrary, everything for the sake of unity is extremely left. Did not hear?

                On the contrary, I know, but I have not heard that.

                Left is everything to the left of zero. Just like the right, this is all to the right of zero. There is no unity either there or there. Because the wing is large, long and can accommodate any creature in pairs. Maybe among the left there are those who put personal, personal interests above common, common interests. Just then, in this case, is left here except for the name? Similarly, but with a different sign, and with the right.
                1. Cowbra 2 February 2019 13: 41 New
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                  Well, figs know him, the thing is. that at university I was not studying at the best time. when different bullshit was seriously taught, for example, at Moscow State University. No kidding, it was like I was a pioneer who planted a biology faculty of Moscow State University at a lecture for scientists !!! Lecturers from someone tripod some office. Creationists. Well tell. what Darwin created, the quote is "the theory of the origin of life on earth." I stood there for an hour and a half, watching, looking at those around me, I was a schoolboy then, but they are real biologists !!!
                  Darwin did not write a single word about the origin of life on earth. But that lecture, and the questions that were asked from the Biological Faculty of Moscow State University !!! I remember. I can’t describe it not because they are banned, there are no words.
                  And I heard this classification more than once, and it is precisely political science. Teachers taught from history faculty. There is logic, it seemed to me that it should be so? The society is changing, the reference points are changing, and it is the fascists or the Nazis who are extreme right? So there is only the priority of society - over the individual, by and large?
                2. Mcar 2 February 2019 13: 56 New
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                  Quote: Cowbra
                  The society is changing, the reference points are changing, and it is the fascists or the Nazis who are extreme right? So there is only the priority of society - over the individual, by and large?

                  There are many definitions of what fascism is. The most accurate, in my opinion, Dimitrova: "Fascism is an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic, most imperialist elements of financial capital." Here, every word is key, not one can be thrown out or omitted.

                  Everything else is from the evil one.

                  Well, where in the "most imperialist elements of financial capital" can the priority of the general over the personal coexist? If only these elements unite interests in dictatorship, chauvinism, terrorism of all who are not members of their "club".
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. aybolyt678 2 February 2019 23: 50 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  Well, where in the "most imperialist elements of financial capital" can the priority of the general over the personal coexist?

                  In German paramilitary national socialism. Where the main idea of ​​Goebbels passes through as a red thread: Homeland gave you life, and it will take the debt back. Get ready for it! Everything, even life, is for Germany! And no matter how much money you have, the main thing is to do your job in a quality manner.
                5. Mcar 3 February 2019 06: 11 New
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                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  In German paramilitary national socialism. Where the main idea of ​​Goebbels passes through as a red thread: Homeland gave you life, and it will take the debt back. Get ready for it! Everything, even life, is for Germany! And no matter how much money you have, the main thing is to do your job in a quality manner.

                  But who knows what Goebbels propagated by sending proletarians of Germany to meat.

                  You are looking at the essence, not at the forms. And the essence is simple as a bath broom: the most imperialist elements of financial capital, in the person of Goebbels, Hitler and others, declared war on the communist idea. Well, what kind of community members after that? Where can one discover the priority of the general over the personal? Or do not know that every soldier of the Wehrmacht was promised an estate in the new Vaterland with a certain number of Slavic slaves?
                6. aybolyt678 3 February 2019 07: 43 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  You are looking at the essence, not at the forms. And the essence is simple as a bath broom: the most imperialist elements of financial capital, in the person of Goebbels, Hitler and others, declared war on the communist idea. Well, what kind of community members after that?

                  any social formation uses different engines to achieve certain goals. Sometimes this competition is sometimes a joint effort for a breakthrough. German national socialism in many ways resembles Soviet Communism with the difference in the fact that we united all the proletarians or sharing the ideas of equality, but the Germans have the same thing but only for the Aryan races! The motivation is largely similar and wild for us, but they also made us kill on the grounds of affluence, and this is wild for them!
                  And the meat, by the way, went to death for the IDEA! And the idea was that, in addition to the superiority of race, the attitude to Order was cultivated (literally, a worker doing his duty. Stands above a negligent minister) Nature, Blood, Honor, Fate, and so on, the charter of ideological constructions copied the charter of the Jesuits of the Middle Ages - a very powerful organization.
                  I think you are confusing today's economic occupation Russia with the concept of capitalism.
                  The article tries to justify the repression, but does not provide the only correct argument that if we now start to engage in economics, we will have to shed even more blood
                7. Mcar 3 February 2019 07: 55 New
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                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  German national socialism is much like Soviet Communism

                  The wolf and the wolfhound are also very similar in many ways - four legs, tail, fangs ... The goal-setting is different: the wolf cuts the sheep, the wolfhound protects the sheep. And yes - "in many ways similar."

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  I think you confuse today's economic occupation of Russia with the concept of Capitalism.

                  I don’t confuse anything. And I know that the Russian Federation is a colony of transnational corporations. The fact that we have capitalism, to put it mildly, is strange - yes. And this is because he grew up not from feudalism, but from socialism.

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  The article tries to justify the repression, but does not provide the only correct argument that if we now start to engage in economics, we will have to shed even more blood

                  Let it not be - "you will have to shed even more blood." There is no soil for this. That civil war is understandable why it was bloody - there were many who wanted to restore the previous order. Where will such a desire come from the current bourgeoisie? Yes, they themselves perfectly understand that all their property is the result of a robbery of the people. All, without exception, are sitting on their suitcases and holding capital over the hill. Just a little - they will cut off to Russia with a whistle. So there will be no big blood.
                8. aybolyt678 3 February 2019 11: 33 New
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                  laughing laughing
                  Quote: McAr
                  The fact that we have capitalism, to put it mildly, is strange - yes. And this is because he grew up not from feudalism, but from socialism.
                  - no! it’s strange for us not because of this, but because Capitalism means the world market, which means that beef costs Argentina, cars in Chinese, tomatoes in Turkish, smartphones ... Here we lose in any area because we have large territories, cold winters, the need to build deep foundations, foundations for roads, to heat many areas, transport over long distances and hide pipes in the ground .... Khrushchev tried to build industrial buildings without a foundation !! nothing succeeded.
                  Communism in our country is impossible if there is a free connection with the outside world.
                  Quote: McAr
                  All, without exception, are sitting on their suitcases and holding capital over the hill. Just a little - they will cut off to Russia with a whistle. So there will be no big blood.

                  there will be a slow, painful dying amid depletion of resources, in fact it is already underway. But there is no leader.
                9. Mcar 3 February 2019 12: 25 New
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                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  - no! it’s strange with us not for this, but because Capitalism means the world market, which means that beef is priced at Argentinean, cars are Chinese, tomatoes are Turkish, smartphones ...

                  Yeah. So, all the cap. countries can regulate import taxes, but are we red again? In normal capitalism, the capitalists themselves, i.e. bourgeois class, protect their capital (means of production) from the expansion of foreign, competing counterparts.

                  This is on the one hand. On the other hand, at such a refinancing rate as in the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, no construction or development of industry is possible even in southern China. And since the banking system is built into the capitalist system, the conclusion suggests itself - the Russian bourgeois class is not interested, in the long run, in the existence of the Russian Federation. That's why it is strange.

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Here we lose in any area because we have large territories, cold winters, the need to build deep foundations, foundations for roads, heat a lot of areas, transport over long distances and hide pipes in the ground ....

                  That is all true. And this is an additional reason why capitalism is disastrous for Russia.

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Communism in our country is impossible if there is a free connection with the outside world.

                  To paraphrase: communism is impossible when connected with capitalism.

                  Yes and no. Communism would have long been with us if Khrushchev had not intervened in the perfectly tuned mechanism of the Stalinist economy. Another question - would capitalism give us to complete it, would it not unleash a nuclear war? After all, the presence on the planet of at least one country where the construction of communism is completed is the death of the capitalist system.

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  there will be a slow, painful dying amid depletion of resources, in fact it is already underway. But there is no leader.

                  I have said more than once here - and what will the most beautiful leader do? He will begin to create a Marxist circle at some factory - this is the maximum that he can do. He will not be able to do anything else, since mass consciousness is sleeping. And if you start talking with the masses about the class consciousness, they will shower them with tomatoes.
                10. aybolyt678 3 February 2019 18: 08 New
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                  Marxist circle, this is untimely. A community in social networks - maybe, but until the system that I mentioned above is worked out, namely, the preparation of the Elite, this is the first and second, why is it necessary to focus on Marx? - it is possible to unite and form a public request for changes against the background of a shortage of energy resources, social justice due to a progressive scale and criminal liability for failure to fulfill election promises.
                  About class consciousness is also not relevant .. Now, in a consumer society, only the fun about the Apocalypse will fail. Well, Jesus did it about good lol !
                  But no one canceled Marx; his laws are valid without knowledge of them. May Capital remain a secret knowledge of the future Elite smile
                11. Mcar 3 February 2019 18: 32 New
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                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Marxist circle, this is untimely. A community in social networks - maybe, but until the system that I mentioned above is worked out, namely, the preparation of the Elite, this is the first and second, why is it necessary to focus on Marx? - it is possible to unite and form a public request for changes against the background of a shortage of energy resources, social justice due to a progressive scale and criminal liability for failure to fulfill election promises.

                  1. "Ilitu", while we are texting here, are already preparing. In the Kremlin. Bourgeoisie. Therefore, you do not need to bathe.
                  2. And there is no need to go in cycles in Marxism either. Representatives of the bourgeois class themselves in the "Capital" subtract for us.
                  3. To formulate a public request for changes such as "increase our salary by at least 2%", this is very important - this is it, the most haymaking.
                  4. The progressive scale is really good. Let the proper exploitation of man by man blossom and grow stronger!
                  5. Four are already sitting for trying to organize a referendum on “criminal liability for failure to fulfill election promises”. Join

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  About class consciousness is also not relevant .. Now, in a consumer society, only the fun about the Apocalypse will fail.

                  Ash stump - doesn’t work. Because public consciousness is bourgeois. Everything is like in the classics - what being, such and consciousness.

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  But no one canceled Marx; his laws are valid without knowledge of them. May Capital remain a secret knowledge of the future Elite

                  So the bourgeois elite uses them. But suckers why know the laws and sciences? "Now in the consumer society is just fun."

                  I have a serious question: Have you read Nosov's Dunno on the Moon?
                12. aybolyt678 3 February 2019 20: 53 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  I have a serious question: Have you read Nosov's Dunno on the Moon?

                  +++ to you. Just what kind of circle, in which production? I have my own company, I work, my wife, and a cleaner. At times I attract the unemployed. Plow. We study Marx. There are no enterprises in our city. Only the railway, several agricultural enterprises with livestock and grain. Several workshops for grinding grain. All. This is a district center of 40 thousand people. Lowcen, Magnet, Holdiscounter, CSN, etc. there are not proletarians and these are not factories; there, qualifications are not needed. Strikes do not fail. How to fight? How to save the remnants of the Soviet mentality in children? Oh yes! I almost forgot - "dunno on the moon"
                13. Mcar 3 February 2019 21: 36 New
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                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  Just what kind of circle, in which production? I have my own company, I work, my wife, and a cleaner. At times I attract the unemployed. Plow.

                  So you are a classic petty bourgeois.

                  You have a dual position - on the one hand, you gravitate toward small property ownership (perhaps forcedly, since all production has fallen), and on the other hand, you are a hard worker, since you work yourself.

                  I have bad news for you. Or maybe not news, maybe you already know about it. Only 1-2 small bourgeois out of a hundred manage to rise to the bourgeois, to at least some significant peaks. The rest fall in the proletariat.

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  There are no enterprises in our city. Only the railway, several agricultural enterprises with livestock and grain. Several workshops for grinding grain. All. This is a district center of 40 thousand people. Lowcen, Magnet, Holdiscounter, CSN, etc. there are not proletarians and these are not factories; there, qualifications are not needed. Strikes do not fail. How to fight?

                  Hard case. I have no ready answer.

                  Theoretically ... A strike is always possible. According to the law, during a strike no one, no private trader, can dismiss a union member. A union can organize 3 like-minded people. Of course, if there are 40 people in a team, and no one will support these three, there will be no sense. But if all forty become members of the union, they will not be able to fire anyone. And this is to charge the whole team, or most of it, with the right attitude, the most difficult. To do this, you need to read a lot, know a lot, talk a lot, etc.

                  A strike is not only a complete rejection of work. This may be a reduction in the working day by an hour or two. Or do everything according to the rules (safety precautions, working machines and machines, etc.) - this is no less a powerful strike. Air traffic controllers generally cannot strike on the law, but they still went on strike - they simply announced that they were on strike, but continued to work. They achieved what they wanted. And the strike can last as long as you like. The union itself during the strike decides how to change the strike actions and in three days simply notifies the management of the enterprise. In short, in order to understand this, it is necessary to study the laws of labor and the experience of successful strikes both in the Russian Federation and in the world.

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  We study Marx.

                  On your own? My regards!

                  Do Professor Popov's lectures help?

                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  How to fight? How to save the remnants of the Soviet mentality in children? Oh yes! I almost forgot - "dunno on the moon"

                  It seems to me that now this work will not make such an impression on children. Because we have capitalism in the Russian Federation and everything is like in this book - why be surprised? But in the Union this was not so perceived - we had socialism, and the description of the capitalist system for children and children's language, caused, at least, a huge surprise that everything is so stupid and unreasonable in the society where Dunno happened, but it’s a fairy tale, then, this does not happen in life ... There was a strong impression! I'm afraid the cartoon of the same name can be declared extremist and banned. With our helmsmen will.
                14. ccsr 4 February 2019 12: 08 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  I have bad news for you. Or maybe not news, maybe you already know about it. Only 1-2 small bourgeois out of a hundred manage to rise to the bourgeois, to at least some significant peaks. The rest fall in the proletariat.

                  So what, does this "news" give reason not to work as a small businessman? And who will feed the families and raise children if all the "petty bourgeois" quit working FOR YOURSELF? Are they hoping for a state or retirement?
                  By the way, in the nineties, when I had a choice to go to hired workers or start a small business, I chose the latter, i.e. he followed the path of the "petty bourgeois" on the advice of an intelligent man who had already tasted the charms of capitalism in Russia. During this time, there were a lot of things with me, but so far I do not regret having made such a choice. And although I have not reached “significant heights” in your graduation, it was just the work for myself that made me a relatively free person, and this satisfies me. So leave your examples to inexperienced people - mature people know very well what to do in any environment, even if they are not comfortable with the social system.
                15. Mcar 4 February 2019 13: 28 New
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                  Quote: ccsr
                  So what, does this "news" give reason not to work as a small businessman?

                  No, it doesn’t give a "reason not to work as a small businessman".
                  But it gives an idea of ​​what are the chances of this or that. Is it bad to know in advance% probability of success?

                  Quote: ccsr
                  So leave your examples to inexperienced people

                  I will not leave. Because inexperienced orders of magnitude more "already tasted the charms" of bending into a mutton horn of their own kind.



                  The number of legal entrepreneurs has decreased over the past 12 months by 300 thousand people. And the remaining 5,7 million people have already opened 270 thousand criminal cases. They are annually visited by 400 thousand scheduled inspections and another million - unscheduled. All these checks fix business compliance by 2 million indicators - from psychiatric examination certificates to ceiling heights or the availability of special chairs for pregnant employees.
                16. ccsr 4 February 2019 19: 10 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  Is it bad to know in advance% probability of success?

                  Well, you learned that your son’s chance to become a billionaire is practically zero. And what, because of this, will you love him less, or will you advise him to quit his job?

                  Quote: McAr
                  I will not leave. Because inexperienced orders of magnitude more "already tasted the charms" of bending into a mutton horn of their own kind.

                  But why then, in the election, the majority supports Putin, the president of a capitalist state who does not promise citizens social equality? Why don't your “folded into a ram’s horn” change the social system even by voting for those who promise them to change their lives for the better, focusing on Marxism?
                  Quote: McAr
                  All these checks record business compliance with 2 million indicators - from psychiatric examination certificates to ceiling heights or the availability of special chairs for pregnant employees.

                  Do not tell me horror stories. I have been in small business for more than twenty years, and unlike you, I know his problems not by hearsay. And I assure you that you can comply with the requirements, you just do not whine, but solve problems with those who can control you, and without bribes.
                17. Mcar 5 February 2019 05: 39 New
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                  Quote: ccsr
                  Well, you learned that your son’s chance to become a billionaire is practically zero. And that, because of this, you will love him less

                  And even in a dream, such a statement of the question would not have occurred to me - they say there is no money, no love. You, apparently, are already from a capitalistically educated generation. Or re-educated.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  But why then, in the election, the majority supports Putin, the president of a capitalist state who does not promise citizens social equality?

                  Because social being determines social consciousness.

                  What is social life in the country? Bourgeois, capitalist. Consequently, public consciousness is also bourgeois.

                  But social equality cannot exist even in the primary phase of communism — socialism.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  Why don't your “folded into a ram’s horn” change the social system even by voting for those who promise them to change their lives for the better, focusing on Marxism?

                  Firstly, there has not been a single candidate in any election who would be a Marxist.
                  Secondly, it is impossible to change the system from capitalist to communist in elections. There was no such thing in history that the bourgeois class voluntarily ceded to the proletarian class.
                18. ccsr 5 February 2019 12: 20 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  You, apparently, are already from a capitalistically educated generation. Or re-educated.

                  Made a mistake - I just really look at life, which, given the years I have lived, gives me more to understand reality than all your slogans and rants.
                  Quote: McAr
                  But social equality cannot exist even in the primary phase of communism — socialism.

                  Well then, what are you talking about, since even socialism does not suit you? Capitalism then what is bad for you?
                  Quote: McAr
                  Secondly, it is impossible to change the system from capitalist to communist in elections.

                  Well, why, or you may not know, that the socialist Allende won the ELECTION in Chile in 1970? It seems that this is not me from a capitalistically educated generation, but you are a product of modern education ...
                  Quote: McAr
                  There was no such thing in history that the bourgeois class voluntarily ceded to the proletarian class.

                  The example of Chile is probably not for you.
                  But this is not the point, but the fact that the overthrow of power takes place in many countries of the world, and why did you decide that our people would not want to change power, as it was in 1917? Or do you already not allow this? Then why bother to crush the water in the mortar, since everything is so hopeless?
                19. Mcar 5 February 2019 12: 40 New
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                  Wrong - I just really look at life

                  Could not specify, it is already evident that you have firmly mastered the rules of the capitalist system: man is wolf to man; you die today, and I tomorrow; the law is taiga, the bear is the master, etc.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  Well then, what are you talking about, since even socialism does not suit you?

                  Russian is not native, or what? What kind of words could anyone with a good understanding of Russian ask a similar question? Rest more, and then there are already glitches from overwork, not otherwise.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  Capitalism then what is bad for you?

                  Capitalism is a system of destruction of both man and the environment. You do not understand this, but I have no desire to explain it to you.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  Well, why, or you may not know, that the socialist Allende won the ELECTION in Chile in 1970?

                  The bourgeois class allowed him, gave victory, and only because his motto was: "Socialism without the dictatorship of the proletariat." Therefore, he is the same "socialist" as the three-ruler from Rakita.

                  "... who is negative to the dictatorship of the proletariat ... these are stupid peoplewho are unable to understand that there must be either the dictatorship of the proletariat or the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Whoever says otherwise is either a didiot or politically so illiteratethat he’s not only ashamed to let him go to the rostrum ". V.I. Lenin

                  Quote: ccsr
                  But this is not the point, but the fact that the overthrow of power takes place in many countries of the world, and why did you decide that our people would not want to change power, as it was in 1917?

                  Why did you decide that I decided so?

                  Or do not know that the bourgeoisie did not voluntarily yield to the proletariat?
                  Quote: ccsr
                  Then why bother to crush the water in the mortar, since everything is so hopeless?
                20. ccsr 5 February 2019 13: 23 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  Could you not specify, it is already evident that you have firmly mastered the rules of the capitalist system:

                  I learned the rules that our people adopted in 1991. It was people like you who in the majority demanded "Down with the CPSU," so why are you crying now?
                  Quote: McAr
                  Capitalism is a system of destruction of both man and the environment. You do not understand this, but I have no desire to explain it to you.

                  Well, why didn’t you come out to fight him in 1991?
                  Quote: McAr
                  The bourgeois class allowed him, he gave victory,

                  Do not bother - the question was about the elections, and I showed you through an example that you did not know that during the elections left parties could come to power.
                  Quote: McAr
                  Or do not know that the bourgeoisie did not voluntarily yield to the proletariat?

                  In the know, in the know ....
                  But I don’t understand the essence of all your calls - are you calling for a change of power in a revolutionary or evolutionary way? Tell us about your vision, do not hide your views.
                21. Mcar 5 February 2019 13: 27 New
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                  Quote: ccsr
                  But I don’t understand the essence of all your calls - are you calling for a change of power in a revolutionary or evolutionary way? Tell us about your vision, do not hide your essence.

                  I see no reason - it won’t do you any good.
                22. ccsr 5 February 2019 13: 36 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  I see no reason - it won’t do you any good.

                  Why are you scared?
                  Let me not benefit, but others will see your true face, and believe many, it will become clear why you are writing here.
                23. Mcar 5 February 2019 13: 40 New
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                  Quote: ccsr
                  Let me not benefit, but others will see your true face, and believe many, it will become clear why you are writing here.

                  I have already shown my face more than once. Like you yours. Have a few hours free - read my comments. And do not make yourself a wise guy.
                24. ccsr 5 February 2019 13: 49 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  Have a few hours free - read my comments.

                  Do you think that they deserve it, after you were afraid to honestly answer a simple question?
                  Quote: McAr
                  And do not make yourself a wise guy.

                  I just laugh at life teachers like you.
                25. Mcar 5 February 2019 13: 54 New
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                  Quote: ccsr
                  Do you think that they deserve it, after you were afraid to honestly answer a simple question?

                  Well, you wanted to see my face.

                  And as for your "question":
                26. ccsr 5 February 2019 14: 11 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  Well, you wanted to see my face.

                  Your face does not interest me at all - I am interested in whether you can honestly state your views, and no more.
                  As it turned out, scared ...
                27. Mcar 5 February 2019 14: 17 New
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                  Quote: ccsr
                  I'm interested in whether you can honestly state your views, and no more.

                  Citizen, de Bill, I have already outlined them. I don’t want to throw beads in front of pigs.
                28. ccsr 5 February 2019 18: 54 New
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                  Quote: McAr
                  Citizen, de Bill, I have already outlined them.

                  You're lying - you are afraid to answer a simple question, and this is obvious.
  • Alexander Greene 9 February 2019 23: 29 New
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    Quote: ccsr
    Well, why didn’t you come out to fight him in 1991?

    By this time, the majority of the Soviet people were infected with petty-bourgeois consciousness, after the Khrushchev thaw, Brezhnev stagnation, brainwashing during the Gorbachev perestroika did their dirty deed, and few people supported the Communists, and their performance would only lead to unnecessary blood.
    Today is another matter, almost all have been trained by capitalism, the matter is left to the small ....
  • Reptiloid 13 February 2019 08: 48 New
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    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: ccsr
    Well, why didn’t you come out to fight him in 1991?

    By this time, the majority of the Soviet people were infected with petty-bourgeois consciousness, after the Khrushchev thaw, Brezhnev stagnation, brainwashing during the Gorbachev perestroika did their dirty deed, and few people supported the Communists, and their performance would only lead to unnecessary blood.
    Today is another matter, almost all have been trained by capitalism, the matter is left to the small ....
    today
    However, Alexander, I want to inform you that in one of my books, I read that at that time people came out and opposed. And about 2000 people were killed. Of course, this is hushed up and it is clear why their names are unknown. Why I do not inform the author and the title of the book. Forgot ... I have several books on this topic and I rarely read them --- it’s hard to get through names and posts. As if it were some other planet at all ... I want to find this text again, now in these books about the destruction of the USSR, I began to make notes with a pencil !!!!
  • Alexander Greene 13 February 2019 19: 58 New
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    Quote: Reptiloid
    And there were killed about 2000 people.

    It’s very interesting, if you find material, then bring it. Unfortunately, I have not heard about this
  • Reptiloid 13 February 2019 20: 40 New
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    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And there were killed about 2000 people.

    It’s very interesting, if you find material, then bring it. Unfortunately, I have not heard about this

    It was only about the events in Moscow. I try, read how I find ---- mark and write
  • Alexander Greene 9 February 2019 23: 24 New
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    Quote: McAr
    Quote: ccsr
    Well then, what are you talking about, since even socialism does not suit you?

    Russian is not native, or what? What kind of words could anyone with a good understanding of Russian ask a similar question? Rest more, and then there are already glitches from overwork, not otherwise.

    Dear, your opponent is not from overwork, but from political illiteracy, he does not understand the difference between the first phase of communism (socialism) and complete communism.
  • Mcar 10 February 2019 08: 44 New
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    Quote: Alexander Green
    Dear, your opponent is not from overwork, but from political illiteracy, he does not understand the difference between the first phase of communism (socialism) and complete communism.

    Perhaps from political illiteracy. But I am still inclined to believe that a citizen is simply a troll. He is a bourgeois, but like every bourgeois must and wants to suppress the opposite class. It is impossible to operate on the forum. What is left? Only to troll - to mow under Dunno, ask questions about "twice", etc. The most repulsive category.
  • Reptiloid 13 February 2019 20: 47 New
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    "Blinding" ------ such a PR technique. What is the transmission cycle on LEN.RU
    Quote: McAr
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Dear, your opponent is not from overwork, but from political illiteracy, he does not understand the difference between the first phase of communism (socialism) and complete communism.

    Perhaps from political illiteracy. But I am still inclined to believe that a citizen is simply a troll. He is a bourgeois, but like every bourgeois must and wants to suppress the opposite class. It is impossible to operate on the forum. What is left? Only to troll - to mow under Dunno, ask questions about "twice", etc. The most repulsive category.
  • aybolyt678 3 February 2019 20: 44 New
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    Quote: McAr
    On the other hand, at such a refinancing rate as in the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, no construction or development of industry is possible even in southern China.

    +++ here you are certainly right, but think at your leisure also about the exchange rate, it is also a powerful tool of world capital to kill Russia.
  • kalibr 2 February 2019 13: 36 New
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    And the consciousness and mentality is also proletarian-haha?
  • aybolyt678 2 February 2019 23: 43 New
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    Quote: McAr
    For example, Engels, Marx, Lenin, Tolstoy, the list can be continued for a long time, they were socially in the bourgeois class, but their views and social position were proletarian.

    I think it is inappropriate to talk about proletarian views, among politicians, at least. The views of Marx, Engels and Lenin were philosophical, scientific, socially oriented. And the proletarians are just workers who have nothing to lose but their chains. The proletarian view is a slogan. Plain. Type robbery looted !!!!
    1. Mcar 3 February 2019 06: 43 New
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      Quote: aybolyt678
      I think it is inappropriate to talk about proletarian views, among politicians, at least. The views of Marx, Engels and Lenin were philosophical, scientific, socially oriented.

      Why is it inappropriate?

      It is very appropriate, because both their position and views were on the side of the proletariat. What they wrote about in their writings. For us. And we do not read. Because not readers, but writers. Unfortunately.

      Quote: aybolyt678
      And the proletarians are just workers who have nothing to lose but their chains. The proletarian view is a slogan. Plain. Type robbery looted !!!!

      If something can be misunderstood, it will be misunderstood.

      January 23, 1918, three months after the October Revolution, Lenin spoke in Petrograd before the agitators sent to the province. He explained to them that “the external war has ended” and the time has come for the “internal war”:

      - The bourgeoisie, having hidden the loot in the chests, calmly thinks: "Nothing, we will sit out." The people should pull out this “hapalu” and force it to return the loot. You must do this locally. Do not let them hide, so that we will not be ruined by a complete collapse. It is not the police who have to force them - the police are killed and buried - the people themselves have to do this, and there is no other way to deal with them. The old Bolshevik was right, who explained to the Cossack what Bolshevism was about. To the question of the Cossack: is it true that you Bolsheviks are robbing? - the old man answered: yes, we rob the loot.

      Lenin had in mind a story that the Don Cossack Shamov told the Third All-Russian Congress of Soviets a week earlier, on January 16. The old stanitsky asked the Bolshevik Minin how the peasantry would receive land, and after hearing his program, he exclaimed:

      “So you're a burglar!”

      Minin replied:

      - Yes, we are robbers, but we rob robbers.

      We note the important difference between the explanation of Minin and the appeal of Lenin. Minin spoke to the stanitsik about the transfer of landowner land to the peasants (a slogan intercepted by the Bolsheviks from the Social Revolutionaries). Lenin, on the other hand, spoke of “chests of the bourgeoisie,” that is, of the seizure of any property that the confiscators considered to be looted — which already smelled of criminality.

      In the book “On Lenin. Materials for a biographer ”(1924) Trotsky recalled:

      Newspapers especially grasped the words "robbed loot" and turned them in every way: both in editorials, and in verses, and in feuilleton.

      “And this“ robbery was given to them, ”Lenin once said with playful despair.

      - Whose words are these? I asked. - Or is it a fiction?

      “No, I somehow really said it,” answered Lenin, “said yes and forgot, and they made a whole program out of it.” - And he humorously waved his hand.


      At a meeting of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee on April 29, 1918, Lenin declared:

      - Hit here especially the slogan: "loot", - a slogan in which, no matter how I look at it, I can’t find anything wrong if history appears on the scene. If we use the words: expropriation of expropriatorsthen - why can’t you do without Latin words here?

      But, since by that time the scandalous slogan had already played its part, Lenin announced the transition to the next stage - the execution of those who rob the loot from the robbers:

      - ...Count the loot and pull it apart, and if they will be drawn to themselves directly or indirectly, then shoot such violators of discipline ...

      As we see, Lenin, defending his slogan, referred to Marx, who said: “The hour of capitalist private property is beating. Expropriators expropriate”(“ Capital ”, I, 24, 6).

      I hope that now you understand the true meaning of the slogan "robbed loot"?
      1. aybolyt678 3 February 2019 20: 59 New
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        Quote: McAr
        I hope that now you understand the true meaning of the slogan "robbed loot"?

        I read your comment with interest, your version is quite interesting, although it does not refute but complements others.
        actually I'm looking for an answer to the question of what to do? who is to blame is generally understood
      2. Mcar 3 February 2019 21: 49 New
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        Quote: aybolyt678
        actually I'm looking for an answer to the question of what to do?

        The same thing that revolutionaries did long before 1917. To study is to raise one’s level, both in political issues and in economic ones. And then to share with others - and others benefit themselves and (if you want to learn - start teaching).
  • Alexander Greene 9 February 2019 23: 40 New
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    Quote: aybolyt678
    The proletarian view is a slogan. Plain. Type robbery looted !!!!

    No, dear, you are mistaken, proletarian views, this is primarily a collectivist consciousness, which is why the proletariat is the only class that can put an end to the current disgrace - the omnipotence of private property, and begin to build a just society for the workers, of course there will again be many offended, those who will be selected "candle" factories. Well, you probably know that crime is the basis of any capital.
  • Mcar 2 February 2019 12: 08 New
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    Quote: Cowbra
    Well, let me argue with you.
    ------------
    And I will give a bunch of such examples from life

    There is no subject to dispute. Social being determines social consciousness. What kind of being? Capitalist, bourgeois. Consequently, the corresponding consciousness. And so it was, to one degree or another, the entire period of Soviet power, the socialist system.

    And the myth is that the land was owned by the peasants and this is already “driven into the subcortex”. That's just this myth is already driven into the subcortex.
  • horlet 2 February 2019 16: 14 New
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    You lived in a village during the defeat of Soviet collective farms and state farms? And now you are? You put it wrong - not Private, but Small-scale economy! Lenin said: approximately: “If we have 1000 tractors, the peasant himself will vote for the collective farm!” But Stalin did not wait for these tractors and forced the process! Again ... the union of cattle, chickens and other living creatures into a collective farm, from private farms, is utter nonsense! And in 90 years I witnessed the reverse process, by the way to this day, when large Too and PCs by any means do not allow farmers to stand out with their Share and equipment by share! Only 10% of peasants want to become farmers, so they don’t Interference! And now, large stupid people and thieves sometimes lead large households, and a normal peasant should have the opportunity to send them to ----- and cultivate his land with his family - now any shaft will benefit from the technology! At least in our country, at least in the West, the state is engaged in science! And there, too, your Earth (Agricultural destination) is not there, read their laws! And in conclusion, the USSR had enough grain in terms of gross harvest, but bought fodder, while exporting 1 cool grain to Europe and fed half of Africa, Asia and Latin America! Let Dam with GDP say how much they produce tons of milk and meat, and I assure you that they will have to buy more grain in order to reach the age of 85!
  • Antares 2 February 2019 11: 52 New
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    Quote: kalibr
    It was a process aimed at changing the mentality of the population, and carried out very quickly. An analogue is the "bloody laws" against tramps and beggars in England after fencing. That is why the repression in its mass affected 60% of the peasants.

    all right. People were shot in layers, forming a completely new mentality. But it was based on the traditional peasant Russian.
    The analogue is not enclosure, but VGF. A similar situation before the dictator.
    1. Cowbra 2 February 2019 12: 13 New
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      Listen, so that with you - in general, at least something similar should be brought to the dialogue, answer the simple question that they are hardly considered in the manuals. Whom did the Austrians knock out at Thalerhof? Who wrote denunciations to whom?
      1. Antares 2 February 2019 15: 58 New
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        Quote: Cowbra
        Whom did the Austrians knock out at Thalerhof? Who wrote denunciations to whom?

        if the question is for me the answer is standard. All "Unreliable." Like the USA of Japanese descent.
        And everyone and Russophiles and Ukrainophiles and many others were on the list .. Everything was important there against AV ...
        1. Cowbra 2 February 2019 16: 06 New
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          As always, they didn’t answer. Question asked - where is the answer?
          Already good - what do you understand. about what. But this - I do not understand
  • Kurdyukov 2 February 2019 16: 34 New
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    60% of peasants are not less than 100 million. Would you even count on a calculator or something so as not to submit
    1. kalibr 2 February 2019 20: 05 New
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      60% of repressed! Read carefully !!!
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  • tasha 2 February 2019 07: 16 New
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    Bazhenov Valerian Ivanovich (1889 - 1938) head of the Department of Radio Engineering of the Moscow Aviation Institute, Doctor of Technical Sciences, founder of domestic radio navigation and radio direction finding, author of many inventions in the field of radio business. First arrested at 1930, released at 1932. Arrested 19 on November 1937 again. Signed for repression in the first category (shooting) in the list of "Moscow Center" from 29 September 1938 to 61 people as advised by I. Shapiro. The sentence of the HCVF of the USSR on October 3 1938 on charges of participation in a counter-revolutionary terrorist organization. Signatures: Stalin, Molotov. He was shot and buried at Kommunarka (Moscow Region) on October 3 1938. Rehabilitated 3 March 1956.
    1. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 10: 22 New
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      Quote: tasha
      terrorist organization. Signatures: Stalin, Molotov. He was executed and buried on Kommunarka (Moscow Region) on October 3, 1938. He was rehabilitated on March 3, 1956.

      If you read the case file, then you would sign. Do you not think that Stalin and Molotov should have checked every case with bias?
      1. tasha 2 February 2019 10: 29 New
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        Don't you think

        Not. I just want the author and readers to look at the photos and see people for dry numbers and often empty phrases ..
      2. Antares 2 February 2019 12: 04 New
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        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Do you not think that Stalin and Molotov should have checked every case with bias?

        I looked at how many prominent scientists were put under the knife ... I don’t even know the meaning in the photo, there you can create a gallery to get a picture
        In total, under Article 58 of the Criminal Code and standard charges of counter-revolutionary, anti-Soviet, terrorist activity, dozens of prominent scientists and hundreds of less significant scientists were physically destroyed. 94 of 140 doctors of sciences and professors who were destroyed in Moscow in 1937-38 received execution sanctions from Stalin, Molotov and other members of the Politburo. Many scientists were arrested several times. For example, VN Beneshevich (archaeographer, historian), a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, a member of the Academies in Strasbourg, Munich and Berlin, was arrested in 1922, 1928, 1930 and the last time in 1937. He was shot on January 27, 1938, in the same year he was shot sons and brother. Physiologist E.M. Kreps (corresponding member of the USSR Academy of Sciences since 1946), was arrested in 1919, 1933, 1937, served time in Kolyma, several times was on the verge of death. However, he managed to survive, was released in March 1940, and later lived and worked in the Meadow.

        poor Stalin and Molotov, signed without looking.
        Last name, as I understand it, is nothing, quantity is everything.
        Among the Russians, Ukrainians, and others, I found several foreigners (by origin or roots) who chose the USSR with their hearts, it would be better if they thought a wallet! Would be livelier!
        Shpilrein Yan Nikolaevich (Naftulovich) (1887-1938) - a prominent scientist in the field of mathematics, theoretical mechanics and electrical engineering. He graduated from the Department of Physical and Mathematical Sciences of the Sorbonne and the Higher Polytechnic School in Karlsruhe. Polish origin. Since 1911 he was an assistant professor at the University of Stuttgart, where he defended his thesis. In 1916 he published the first edition of his textbook on vector calculus in theoretical mechanics and electrical engineering (in German). In the second half of 1918 he returned from Stuttgart to Russia, taught at the Krasnodar Polytechnic Institute. Corresponding member of the USSR Academy of Sciences in the Department of Mathematical and Natural Sciences (electrical engineering) since 1933. Professor of the Faculty of Electrical Engineering of the Moscow Technical University. He worked in the Technical Department of the Supreme Economic Council, a member of the qualification commission of the People’s Commissariat of Heavy Industry and the Higher Attestation Commission. He is one of the founders of the Moscow Power Engineering Institute, before his arrest he was a professor, head of the department of higher mathematics, dean of the general and electrophysical faculties of MPEI. The main works on the application of vector calculus, tensor analysis and other mathematical methods in electrical engineering, heat engineering and radio engineering; author of the first reference book in the USSR on special functions in engineering calculations. Arrested in 1937, sentenced to VMN on charges of counter-revolutionary activity; shot. Both his brothers were also shot. At the Academy of Sciences, it was restored by the General Assembly on March 5, 1957.
        Could and should not have returned!
        Hans Gustav Adolf Gelman (German: Hans Gustav Adolf Hellmann, October 14, 1903 - May 29, 1938) - German theoretical physicist, pioneer of quantum chemistry. Doctoral dissertation in Stuttgart under the direction of Professor Erich Regener. In 1929, Gelman received the post of assistant professor at the University of Hanover. After the Nazis came to power, Gelman was recognized as politically unreliable and was dismissed on December 24, 1933. He adhered to leftist views, spoke out against racial theory, but the main reason for his dismissal was the nationality of his Jewish wife. Having two offers - from the United States of America and the Soviet Union - he chose the latter. The main reason for choosing the USSR was the fascination with socialist ideas and the Ukrainian past of his wife. In 1933, Gelman moved to the Soviet Union with his family and received the post of head of the theoretical group of the laboratory of the structure of matter Y. K. Syrkin at the Karpov Physical-Chemical Institute in Moscow. In 1935, he accepted Soviet citizenship and received a doctorate. In 1937 he published the monograph Quantum Chemistry, the world's first textbook on quantum chemistry (a German edition was published in Vienna that same year). He was arrested on March 9, 1938, charged under article 58 of espionage in favor of Germany, and shot on May 28 of the same year at the age of 34. In 1957, he was posthumously rehabilitated.
        This one generally ... seems smart but made a mistake. The Nazis just fired him. The USA made an offer. The USSR seemed the place of the future .. And it turned out to be its cemetery ...
        1. Krasnoyarsk 3 February 2019 11: 42 New
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          Quote: Antares

          I looked at how many prominent scientists were put under the knife ... I don’t even know the meaning in the photo, there you can create a gallery to get a picture

          Yeah, "prominent scientists" is an indisputable fact that they could not be enemies of Soviet power.
          Or "mishandled Cossacks."
      3. kalibr 2 February 2019 15: 46 New
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        !
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Do you think that Stalin and Molotov should have checked each case with passion?

        Obliged!
      4. passerby 4 February 2019 05: 47 New
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        Is it okay to sign a death sentence without understanding whether a person is guilty or not? Perhaps this is the essence of proletarian "justice."
        1. Krasnoyarsk 4 February 2019 12: 31 New
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          Quote: passerby
          Is it okay to sign a death sentence without understanding whether a person is guilty or not? Perhaps this is the essence of proletarian "justice."

          From your post, I understood that you are not of "proletarian" origin. Those. - noble? And since it’s “noble”, it’s literate, and that means they must understand that in order to understand how you write, it takes some time. After all, in your opinion, Stalin should not have trusted the presented case materials. He had to conduct investigative measures himself, interrogate the victims, witnesses, and the suspect. To conduct court hearings. So? No? Multiply all this by the number of cases and you will get the time spent. I didn’t understand. - Stalin who works for you? An investigator? A judge? The prosecutor? Only those cases in which Stalin could postpone the sentence on the basis of POLITICAL ACCURACY were brought to Stalin for signature by the COURT sentence. The court did not ask for the approval of the verdict, but about the time frame for the execution of the verdict. Only Stalin knew the condemned would be needed if he was alive or not. The court could delay the execution of the death sentence and send the sentenced person to the camp, from which, in case of a POLITICAL need, he could be removed, washed, sheared and presented at the place of demand. If the political situation changed and the need for the condemned fell away, the sentence was carried out. Those. The court decision remained in force.
          That is, Stalin did not intervene in court decisions, he could only ask the court to postpone the punishment for POLITICAL reasons, which the court could not know a priori!
          1. passerby 4 February 2019 17: 24 New
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            Before you write in the question, at least understand. Enlighten, here's a quote for you. "In 1937-1938. The sentences of the All-Russian Supreme Council of the All-Russian Supreme Council were handed down in accordance with the lists compiled by the NKVD bodies and signed by the highest leadership of the USSR. The lists contained lists of persons whom it was planned to convict in the HCVF of the USSR with the sanction of I.V. Stalin and his closest associates in the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (for various punishments - overwhelmingly - for execution [5]. Persons on the lists were divided into the first (VMN), second (10 - 15 years in prison or ITL) and third (5 - 8 years in prison) categories, depending on the planned punishment. The lists signed by the members of the Politburo were transmitted to the HCAB. Each category displayed the maximum allowable sentence for the person assigned to it. The court procedure was simplified to the limit: the hearing took place without witnesses and lasted an average of 5-10 minutes (in rare cases, up to half an hour). During this time, three judges had to “explain to the defendant his rights, announce the indictment [...] clarify the essence of the accusation, find out the defendant’s attitude to“ committed crimes “, listen to his testimony and the last word [...] to go to the consultation room, write the verdict there and, returning to the courtroom, declare it ... ”[6] Death sentences were not announced to the defendants - they found out about their fate immediately before the execution [7]. The “list” conviction mechanism in the HCVS was also used after 1938 [8] ”
            1. Krasnoyarsk 4 February 2019 19: 42 New
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              Quote: passerby
              quote. "In 1937-1938. The sentences of the All-Russian Supreme Council of the All-Russian Supreme Council were handed down in accordance with the lists compiled by the NKVD bodies and signed by the highest leadership of the USSR. The lists contained lists of persons whom it was planned to convict in the HCVF of the USSR with the sanction of I.V. Stalin and his closest associates in the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (for various punishments - overwhelmingly - for execution [5]. Faces in

              One bastard, is it really Volkogonov (?), Picking his nose, wrote all this, and you mess up nothing, you believe in all this slander.
              Therefore, I am forwarding your advice to you. Always check the source of the information. This is the basis of the search for truth.
              1. passerby 5 February 2019 02: 49 New
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                Saying “you're lying” is certainly easy. Refute. Give your sources and let's figure it out.
                1. Krasnoyarsk 5 February 2019 11: 27 New
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                  Quote: passerby
                  Saying “you're lying” is certainly easy. Refute. Give your sources and let's figure it out.

                  We will not understand. 1. The wrong format. 2. I do not need this. 3. To convince you of something is a waste of time. 4. If you want to figure out something, a dispute with someone is not your assistant.
                  I can give a hint. By order of the Supreme Council, the so-called "Special Meetings" were created in the regions. Those. it is quite a legitimate body. For what? The fact is that, then, as today, there were a lot of organized crime groups (organized crime groups). The leaders of these groups do not commit crimes themselves. But local police officers knew them, but, according to the law, could not do anything with them. Therefore, they compiled lists of persons, not only organizers of organized crime groups, but also other asocial persons, which, I repeat, could not be attracted under the current legislation, and transferred them to the OS (Special Meeting). Members of the OS were: secretary of the regional committee, chairman of the regional council, and early. ATC.
                  The one who wrote to you, and not only that - “In 1937-1938. The sentences of the All-Russian Supreme Council of the All-Russian Supreme Council were handed down in accordance with the lists compiled by the NKVD bodies and signed by the highest leadership of the USSR. = knew about the "lists" and even more, but he perverted this knowledge with his speculation and concealment of certain moments.
                  He did not say about who was included in the lists, who made these lists, who made decisions on these lists (do you really think that in order to repress some organizer of the organized crime group in the city of Mukhos, Stalin’s sanction was necessary? ) and one more important thing - the Armed Forces, adopting a resolution on the OS, immediately limited its activity - the highest punishment that the OS could apply - 6 years in camps. All! Because - without trial !!!
                  This is a hint. Further, if you wish, find out for yourself. I, too, began to understand only in the early 90's.
    2. horlet 2 February 2019 16: 25 New
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      Solovyov’s surname is Shapiro! That’s why now you can’t find Russians there in the afternoon with fire! They shot it, and the smartest nation appropriated the development for themselves!
    3. Alexander Greene 9 February 2019 23: 56 New
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      Quote: tasha

      Bazhenov Valerian Ivanovich (1889 - 1938), head of the Department of Radio Engineering of the Moscow Aviation Institute, Doctor of Technical Sciences, founder of domestic radio navigation and radio direction finding, author of many inventions in the field of radio business. First arrested in 1930, released in 1932. Arrested again on November 19, 1937.

      Bazhenov V.I. the tsarist, bourgeois specialist, went to the service of the Soviet power, but did not recognize it, and therefore conducted anti-Soviet propaganda among students, for which, in the early 30s he was arrested, it didn’t benefit him, he began to participate in the work of an underground anti-Soviet organization, for which he paid with his life. Here you can only regret one thing, that a good scientist became an anti-Soviet, went against his people. The rehabilitation of 1956 was not an indicator, at that time even the SS, Bandera and Vlasov people granted amnesty.
  • nikvic46 2 February 2019 07: 20 New
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    According to the repressions, the author revealed only a grain of truth. I will not speak about the bright personalities who suffered during these purges. A whole huge chain of honest people were recognized as spies, pests. Not only were they deprived of Honor, their families suffered as well. The workers themselves were destroyed. NKVD. It was enough to write
    denunciation, and only a handful of people returned to ordinary life. None of the Western countries was going to give the property of the USSR. A huge amount of money was paid for all foreign specialists. It is worth turning to the second edition of the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, published in 1949, and released in 1954, and to look at the section "USSR Economy". We will see that money was paid from 1927-1933. ,
    only in 1933 the debt of our country began to vanish. It was in this year that the whole country was difficult, not
    elected republics.
    1. Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2019 20: 58 New
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      Quote: nikvic46

      By repression, the author discovered only a grain of truth

      And I believe that this topic should be closed. All the same, grinding the topic will not lead to anything positive. No one in their right mind and clear memory will deny that so many innocent people suffered during the repression. No one, in their right mind and clear memory, will deny that during the time of repression the vast majority received what they deserved.
      I believe that this article appeared for a reason. Someone really wants to re-sow discord in our already unstable society. Because the assessment of these events leads to confrontation.
      If it were my will, I would forbid writing on this subject in the media. Let them write on this subject in historical journals, in "Man and the Law", etc.
      1. nikvic46 3 February 2019 06: 16 New
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        I also think that you can’t go forward, looking back all the time. But, I don’t agree with you that most of them got what they deserved. When the war started, many military men were sent to the front in the former
        ranks. How can General Horbaty be restored if the court recognized him as an enemy of the people before?
      2. kalibr 3 February 2019 14: 15 New
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        Please note that from the commentators, NIKTO does not refer to articles in authoritative publications, such as the MILITARY HISTORICAL JOURNAL, QUESTIONS OF HISTORY, HISTORY OF THE STATE AND RIGHT ... At best, they take something from the sites, or use so know. " That is, the level of controversy is conducted at the kitchen, the philistine, extremely low level. Those who rise above it - units. But there is a reason to "blow off steam", to bite ... So ... historical journals, of course, well. "Man and the law" - great! But the bulk of the need and discharged. Need a "fight in the saloon." Here people get it ...
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        2. Reptiloid 13 February 2019 20: 13 New
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          I think, Vyacheslav Olegovich, people don’t need a fight in the saloon, but we all just learn to speak on rare and important topics for all of us. Where else? Only here !! But those who already know how ----- they quickly provide links that they consider necessary.
  • kalibr 2 February 2019 07: 50 New
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    I would like to see in such complex materials at least some kind of evidence base in the form of references to archival materials and publications in reputable publications. And this is nothing more than an opinion, besides it is absolutely not supported by anything. “People walk on their hands, people walk on their feet” - this is how I see it ...
    1. wooja 2 February 2019 10: 36 New
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      yes, I would like to ... but archives and reputable publications are also subject to the influence of the authorities and time, and many documents are not stored at all ... or stored forever. Only circumstantial evidence and evidence .... Unfortunately
      1. kalibr 2 February 2019 12: 29 New
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        Quote: wooja
        Yes, I would like to ..., but archives and reputable publications are also subject to the influence of the authorities and time, and many documents are not stored at all ... or stored forever.

        Your awareness just amazes me ...
        1. wooja 2 February 2019 12: 31 New
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          oh leave ...
  • wooja 2 February 2019 07: 58 New
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    Repressions ... yes were necessary, the author very beautifully and smoothly stated the essence, post-Soviet correctness ..., the problem is that the goals of the repressions were not achieved, they were not Stalinist, rather party, what was happening in the country in censorship terms indescribably, an underground civil war, unfortunately, repression was necessary in that country and at that time ....
  • tasha 2 February 2019 08: 04 New
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    Samoilovich Alexander Nikolaevich (1880-1938) - Soviet orientalist, academician of the USSR Academy of Sciences (1929), one of the largest Russian Turkologists of the first half of the 20th century. He conducted research on the language, folklore, life of the Turkic-speaking peoples of the Crimea, Volga region, the North Caucasus, Transcaucasia, Central Asia, Kazakhstan, and Altai. He participated in the creation of written languages ​​for the languages ​​of the peoples of the USSR. The main works on the language, literature, folklore and ethnography of the Turks, on general issues of Turkology, the genetic classification of Turkic languages, etc. Director of the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Academy of Sciences. He taught in the eastern branch of the Academy of the General Staff of the Red Army. 1937 was arrested in early October on charges of espionage in favor of Japan, the creation of a terrorist organization, the dissemination of ideas of pan-Turkism. 13 February 1938 shot. Excluded from the Academy of Sciences by the General Meeting on April 29 1938, reinstated on December 14 1956. Rehabilitated 25 August 1956.
    1. wooja 2 February 2019 10: 40 New
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      Colleagues most likely laid ...., the person got into circulation
      1. tasha 2 February 2019 10: 57 New
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        Here is the link to the full selection:
        http://old.ihst.ru/projects/sohist/papers/vostok/1996/5/153-162.pdf
        Just in case, if you are not comfortable reading pdf, I will leave a short selection:

        The reasons for the arrest are not exactly known; one can only put forward hypotheses. Alexander Nikolaevich was very loyal to the Soviet regime ..., even tried to master Marxism. He was not associated with any opposition in the party. There is a version that he was shot as a nobleman and descendant of the hetman of Ukraine I.S. Samoilovich; ... In the investigation, the nobility was mentioned in passing, but the hetman and Ukrainian relations were not affected at all. More plausible is the “Turkish trace”: A.N. Samoilovich had close ties with Turkish scholars and visited Turkey several times. ... even the traditional “Turkicism” in the investigative affairs of Turkologists, unexpectedly associates with Japan, and not with Turkey.

        PROTOCOL of the preparatory meeting of the Military College of the Supreme Court of the USSR SSR 12 February 1938
        .
        3. Hear the case in a closed court session, without the participation of the prosecution and the defense and without calling witnesses, in accordance with the law of December 1, 1934

        PROTOCOL of a closed court session of the visiting session of the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR SSR 13 February 1938
        The meeting is open at 12 hour. 45 min
        The court retired to the meeting.
        В 13 hours 00 hours The meeting is closed.

        SENTENCE
        The preliminary and judicial investigation established that Samoylovich A.N. Beginning in 1907, he was an agent of Japanese intelligence agencies, and after the October Socialist Revolution in 1917 in Russia, Samoilovich continued to cooperate with Japanese intelligence and had counterrevolutionary relations with resident of Japanese intelligence Vorobiev and carried out counterrevolutionary work on the creation of an anti-Soviet movement among the Soviet Union
        Turkic peoples. In 1935-36 Samoilovich created a counter-revolutionary nationalist organization, which set itself the task of tearing national suburbs from the USSR and subordinating them to Japanese influence. The implementation of the above was meant by applying terrorist methods of struggle against the leaders of the CPSU (b) and the Soviet Government. In this way
        Samoilovich’s guilt of committing crimes under Art. Art. 58-1, 58-8 and 58-11 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR.
        On the basis of the above ...
        Sentenced: ... Samoilovich Alexander Nikolaevich to capital punishment -
        execution with confiscation of all property belonging to him personally.

        Definition No. 4н - 07125 / 56 Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR (On Rehabilitation)
        Samoilovich’s accusation is based on his testimony, in which he pleaded guilty, and on the testimonies of the convicted Voznesensky Arseniy Nikolaevich, Bremman, and Choban-zade, of whom the first two claimed that from the words of the Japanese intelligence agents Ued and Maruyama they became aware of Samoilovich’s belonging to Japanese intelligence agents, and Choban-zade confirmed that Samoilovich was aware of all the counter-revolutionary activities of the pan-Turkist organization. However, none of them: neither Voznesensky, nor Bremman, nor Choban-zade gave evidence of what exactly the criminal activity of the convict consisted of.
        1. wooja 2 February 2019 11: 01 New
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          no words .... holy naivety .....
    2. Alexander Greene 10 February 2019 00: 26 New
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      Quote: tasha
      Samoilovich Alexander Nikolaevich (1880-1938) - Soviet orientalist, academician of the USSR Academy of Sciences

      Similarly with Bazhenov, they were all not Soviet people, although they served the Soviet government, they could not accept the leading role of the working class, and therefore there was a strong nostalgia for the old regime, for the privileges that they had before the revolution. They all secretly hoped for an early collapse of Soviet power, and therefore took part in anti-Soviet organizations.
  • Gardamir 2 February 2019 08: 06 New
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    An article about old years, but must be considered from the point of view of the modern type. Arshukov was arrested, but everyone in the Senate and the government can be, and there is certainly something for that.
    1. Svarog 2 February 2019 14: 50 New
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      Quote: Gardamir
      An article about old years, but must be considered from the point of view of the modern type. Arshukov was arrested, but everyone in the Senate and the government can be, and there is certainly something for that.

      I think there is 99,9% for that .. and moreover, not just for that, but for a long time .. 15-20 years ..
  • oracul 2 February 2019 08: 33 New
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    Let us not confuse repression with the effective control in the management and organization of production at the present time. The brutal time - the devastation after the civil war, the restoration of the economy and defense as soon as possible and the need for further development in the conditions of a total lack of resources and personnel, accompanied by a fierce political struggle for power, fueled, including from outside, accordingly gave rise to cruel methods of assessment and reactions to what is happening. It was a matter of life and death of the country, the Soviet government. The USSR, in spite of the grave consequences of the Second World War, got stronger and developed, and the education of people improved. New conditions required new methods of work and management. But this was not liked by everyone, some wanted to maintain their high position, or even to rise higher, to have eternal privileges not deserved by honest work, not to answer for anything, live a free bohemian life, not be like the majority. The liberals helped to realize this. The problem is that liberalism in private is one thing, and in the management of the state, production and entrepreneurship it is completely different - a direct path to bankruptcy, destruction. They are not able to understand this. Effective management without a monitoring function is not possible. And no digital economy can help, because it is just a tool that is dead without decision-making people.
    1. depressant 2 February 2019 09: 33 New
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      Everything written above is correct. Everyone is right - both those who are for and those who are against. But in blood and horror, in incredible torment, suffering, bouts of despair and grief, a New World was born - the World of light and goodness, the World of noon, which called for service to people who are pure and courageous, decent and initiative, responsible for the country. Virtue was selflessness and mutual assistance and, on their basis, service to the Motherland ... The man’s life path is short ... Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, the most Russian of all Russians, “Russian of Georgian origin”, as he said to himself, did not have enough life time, historical time for the Midday World to take place. Once he set the bar high, and, condemning his impulse, we sign our own reluctance to take it.
      Long live the great Stalin!
  • tasha 2 February 2019 08: 48 New
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    Nadson George Adamovich (1867-1939) botanist, microbiologist, geneticist. Honored Scientist of the RSFSR, Corr. USSR Academy of Sciences, professor of botany, director of the Institute of Microbiology, USSR Academy of Sciences; Editor of the first Russian journal on general microbiology. Nadson's works are devoted to the geological activity of microorganisms, the effect of damaging factors on them. He proved on lower fungi the possibility of artificially producing mutations under the influence of ionizing radiation, and investigated the patterns of induced variability of microbes. Arrested in October 1937. on charges of counter-revolutionary wrecking activity. The circumstances of the death are unknown. Rehabilitated, at the Academy restored by the General Meeting on February 1 1956.
    1. Alexander Greene 10 February 2019 00: 32 New
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      Quote: tasha
      Nadson George Adamovich (1867-1939) is a botanist, microbiologist, geneticist. Honored Scientist of the RSFSR, Corr. USSR Academy of Sciences, professor of botany, director of the Institute of Microbiology, USSR Academy of Sciences; editor of Russia's first journal in general microbiology

      You decided to bring the whole martyrology. This is regrettable, of course, but this is the fate of all the old specialists who could not accept the ideas of socialism, and who, to one degree or another, participated in the struggle against Soviet power.
  • rayruav 2 February 2019 09: 02 New
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    as always in life and nature, the struggle and unity of opposites, the truth somewhere in the middle
  • 1536 2 February 2019 09: 13 New
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    Alas, the so-called "Stalinist repressions" yielded nothing and did not lead to anything. It is unlikely that Russia, as a state, would cease to exist by the 1930 years, but the USSR rested in a Bose, destroyed by survivors, and often those born during the years of repression. But the fact that many active, smart, educated people were destroyed in Russia by these repressions, and then many died in the Great Patriotic War, that they did not have children, that their unborn children have their children - grandchildren of the annihilated, we now feel very sharply . Repression and war knocked out many people who were necessary for the development of the country. But in the system of power that developed in the 1930's, these people were, unfortunately, superfluous.
  • BAI
    BAI 2 February 2019 09: 23 New
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    The author again pulls up some kind of nonsense, under a fact known to professional historians - in the 30s terror was inevitable, regardless of who would be in power: Lenin or Stalin. This is the logic of the development of events. It is only necessary to explain this with a normal historical analysis, as doctors of historical sciences do, and not near-scientific nonsense.
    And one must not forget that the first people shot by the Cheka were bribe takers, not political "enemies of the revolution." And then always the economic and criminal component had a large share. Not all repressed are political, but now I write down all those arrested without exception into political ones.
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  • high 2 February 2019 09: 51 New
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    Stalin was one of the greatest criminals of all time.
    He created a terrible, anti-human system of governing the country, built on lies, violence and killings.
    Stalin created the System, in which half killed the other half.
    Stalin is personally guilty of genocide against the people and his country, of the death of millions of innocent people .... criminally defending the killer.
    1. naidas 2 February 2019 17: 46 New
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      Quote: alta
      Stalin was one of the greatest criminals of all time.

      Well then, Roosevelt outdid him.
      1. high 3 February 2019 03: 39 New
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        Apparently, you mean Hitler?
        1. naidas 3 February 2019 08: 19 New
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          No, it’s national concentration camps and labor camps under Roosevelt. Look at the statistics. Yes, and shootings of hungry riots. In California, the National Guard had the right to shoot the poorly dressed come.
          1. high 4 February 2019 17: 25 New
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            How many millions of their fellow Americans destroyed Roosevelt?
            1. naidas 4 February 2019 22: 00 New
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              in 1940, the US population, while maintaining the previous demographic trends, should have been at least 141,856 million people. The actual population of the country in 1940 amounted to only 131,409 million,
              For lemon per year, Americans disappeared, Stalin during the reign (more than 20 years) 600-700 thousand.
              According to AFT (American Federation of Labor, American Federation of Labor), in 1932 only 10 percent of workers remained fully occupied. Many old people died immediately, a large number of children were missing, due to the hungry phenomenon of Dust Storms. Adults also got: a total of 1933-1939 in public works under the auspices of the Public Works Administration (PWA) and the Civil Works Administration - NEA (this is the construction (canal) of canals, roads, bridges often in uninhabited and marshy malaria areas), with a one-time employed up to 3,3 million. (compare how many in the USSR).
              President Franklin Roosevelt authorized internment by signing Emergency Decree No. 19 on February 1942, 9066, which allowed the military authorities to define “eviction zones” and remove any persons from them. As a result, all citizens of Japanese descent were forcibly evicted from the Pacific coast, including from California and most of Oregon and Washington, to internment camps.
              You can recall the scandal with photos of the Ukrainian famine (Poroshenko actively used them), which turned out to be pictures of American hungry.
  • depressant 2 February 2019 10: 08 New
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    All commentators of the article were divided into two camps, in one of which those who condemn Stalin, in the other those who exalt him. So why does the joint camp refuse the possibility of such a separation to the people of the Stalin era? It was this separation, and the intensity of passions, with each party fully convinced of their rightness, was extremely high - after all, the Civil War had just ended! This led to mass repression. Repression is like a continuation of the war, from which it was psychologically difficult to get out.
    1. naidas 2 February 2019 17: 48 New
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      Quote: depressant
      Repression is like a continuation of the war

      Nonsense, repression is the struggle for the existence of the country, few agree to work hard and get little. Many want here and now.
    2. Alexander Greene 10 February 2019 00: 40 New
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      Quote: depressant
      Repression is like a continuation of the war,

      This is a continuation of the class struggle, which, as it moves towards socialism, only intensifies. As soon as Khrushchev announced in 1961 that the USSR had become a nation-wide state, and the CPSU - the party of the whole people, and waged the class struggle against bourgeois ideology, over the next 30 years it led to the disarmament of the working class and the restoration of capitalism.
  • Yustet1950 2 February 2019 10: 32 New
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    We agree that people who manage big money flows are called MONEY, and people who manage states are called POLITICS. Can any country live without money today? The answer will be no. Consequently, if the state does not have its own currency, to whom POLICY will apply to receive them. It is clear that one must ask for MONEY. This is the foundation of US power. But Russia today began to openly talk about it and get rid of dollar dependence. Naturally, this undermines the foundation of US power and therefore greatly worries them.
    Until MONEY rules the world, there will be no PEACE on Earth.
  • kalibr 2 February 2019 10: 32 New