Improving the air defense system of the People's Republic of China against the background of strategic rivalry with the United States (part 4)

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Currently, the most valuable part of the PLA Air Force's fighter fleet, which can be effectively used to gain air superiority and perform air defense tasks in the PLA Air Force, are Su-35SK, Su-30МК2, Su-30МКК aircraft, as well as unlicensed J-11 modifications. The Su-90SK, delivered by Russia at the beginning of the 27 of the last century, by virtue of outdated avionics can no longer be considered modern. In addition, these fighters are already very worn out, are in the final part of their life cycle and are actively being decommissioned. The same applies to the first series of fighters J-11, assembled at the aircraft factory in Shenyang from Russian components.

However, in addition to heavy fighters assembled in Russia and their Chinese clones, the PRC has its own production of combat aircraft. More recently, the PLA Air Force officially said goodbye to the J-6 fighter. The production of various versions of the Chinese copy of the MiG-19 was also carried out in Shenyang. This fighter became the most numerous in the PLA Air Force, in total, more than 80 were built before the early 3000s. In addition to the front-line fighter, several modifications of the air defense interceptor were built with on-board radar and missile weapons. However, in the 21st century, these machines could no longer compete with 4th generation fighters, and as the air regiments were saturated with modern aircraft, outdated fighters were written off. The official farewell to the J-6 fighter took place in 2010. Nevertheless, the J-6 is still in flight test centers, where they perform training flights and use them in research programs, saving the life of more modern fighters. Also, a significant number of J-6s have been converted into radio-controlled targets, which are actively used during testing of new anti-aircraft systems and during control and training launches of anti-aircraft and aviation rockets.



Shortly before the breakdown of military-technical cooperation in the PRC, a package of documentation was sent to the MiG-21F-13 fighter, as well as several ready-made airplanes and assembly kits. However, the mass production of the “Cultural Revolution” that started in China was stopped, and the China-made MiG-21 was able to bring to mind only by the beginning of the 80-s. Further improvement of the J-7 in the PRC was largely due to the outright theft of the Soviet MiG-21MF fighters delivered to the DRV through Chinese territory. In addition, as it is written in Western sources, in the 70-s several MiGs came to China from Egypt.

Improving the air defense system of the People's Republic of China against the background of strategic rivalry with the United States (part 4)

Fighter J-7C


The J-7C fighter, which appeared in 1984, received a radar sight, a more powerful engine, and was armed with a 23-mm cannon and four missiles with a thermal homing PL-2 (copy of the Soviet K-13) or improved PL-5. The JL-7D fighter jet was equipped with a JL-7A radar with a Tu-16 bomber detection range near 30 km. Production of the J-7C / D continued until the 1996 year.

In the future, Chinese designers relied on Western assistance. So on the J-7E fighter that made the first flight in 1987, the British-developed air-defense system was used, the Israeli fire control system and the PL-8 missiles were largely copied from the Python 3 SD. Thanks to the changes made to the wing design, it was possible to significantly improve the take-off and landing characteristics.

In 2001, the flight tests of the latest and most advanced modification in the family of the twenty-first Chinese began - the J-7G fighter with the KLJ-6E Chinese-made airborne radar (a licensed copy of the Italian Pointer-2500 radar) with a range of air targets on the ground to 55 km


Fighter J-7G during maintenance of the radar


In the cockpit of the fighter J-7G installed ILS Type 956, which displays flight and target information. The official adoption of the J-7G took place in 2004 year. The pilot can target air-to-air missiles with a PL-8 TGS with a helmet-mounted target sight.

Production of the J-7 continued until the 2013 year. In total, about 2400 aircraft were built, approximately 300 machines were exported. The reason for the long longevity in the PLA Air Force of a clearly outdated fighter is its relatively low cost, ease of maintenance and low operating costs.

Although the Chinese designers managed to seriously tighten the combat characteristics of the latest modifications of the J-7, even in the close battle with fourth-generation foreign fighters, it is very difficult for them. The short range and the absence of medium-range missiles in the J-7 armament and the weak radar make it ineffective as an air defense interceptor. Nevertheless, the Chinese clone MiG-21 armed with several air regiments of the "second line". Also single J-7 and Sparky JJ-7 actively operated as training aircraft in the units armed with modern fighters.


Google Earth satellite image: J-7 fighter aircraft at the Mengzi airbase in the Honghe-Hani-Iya Autonomous Region


It is noteworthy that the J-7 fighters mostly remained in the air regiments stationed on the periphery or as a supplement placed at air bases where there are also modern fighters. Judging from satellite images, the number of J-7 in the PLA Air Force is rapidly decreasing. Over the past 3-4, more than half of the air units armed earlier with light J-7 fighters have switched to new J-10.

From the moment J-7 was adopted, it was clear that this very successful light front-line fighter was not very suitable for the role of the main air defense interceptor. This required an aircraft with a greater range, equipped with a powerful radar, automated guidance equipment from ground command posts and armed with medium-range missiles. The PLA Air Force leadership, fearing Soviet and American long-range bombers, demanded the creation of an interceptor fighter with a maximum speed of at least 2,2M and a speed of at least 200 m / s capable of reaching a height of 20000 m, having a combat radius of 750 km. Chinese designers did not "reinvent the wheel" and based on the well-developed aerodynamic configuration of a delta-winged aircraft, they created the J-8 interceptor. This aircraft looks very much like J-7 (MiG-21F-13), but it has two engines, and it is much bigger and heavier.


Satellite image of Google Earth: J-8 and J-7 62-iap fighters at Qiqihar airbase, near the city of Qiqihar, Heilongjiang province. The size difference between J-8 and J-7 is clearly visible.

The interceptor was equipped with two WP-7A TRDFs (a copy of the R-11F turbofan engines) with an afterburner of 58,8 kN. The maximum take-off weight was 13700 kg. Thrust - 0,8. Maximum operating overload - 4 g. The combat radius is about 800 km.


J-8 Interceptor Fighter


The first flight of the J-8 fighter took place in July of the 1965 year, but due to the general decline in industrial production caused by the Cultural Revolution, production aircraft began to flow into combat units only at the start of the 80's. By that time, the fighter equipped with a very primitive radar sight and armed with two 30-mm cannons and four melee rockets with TGS PL-2 no longer met modern requirements. In addition, the technical reliability of the first J-8 was not very high. All this affected the volume of serial construction of interceptors of the first modification, according to Western data, they built a little more than 50 units.

In the second half of the 80-x, PLA Air Force began operation of the advanced interceptor J-8A. In addition to better assembly and the elimination of a significant part of “children's sores,” this model was distinguished by the presence of a Type 204 monopulse radar with an detection range of about 30 km. Instead of 30-mm guns, the 23-mm Type 23-III gun (a Chinese copy of the GSH-23) was introduced into the armament, and in addition to the PL-2 missiles, advanced missiles with TGS PL-5 could be used.


J-8 and J-8A interceptors at the home base


Despite the improvement in the combat characteristics of the upgraded J-8A, relatively few were built, and they entered the regiments, where interceptors of the first modification were already in use. Visually, the J-8 and J-8A can be distinguished by the cab light. On the first serial J-8, the flashlight tilts forward, and on the upgraded J-8A - back.

In the early 90s, in order to improve combat performance, a significant part of the J-8A was modernized by installing a radar capable of seeing targets against the background of the earth, a new fire control system and state identification, as well as a HUD, a radar exposure receiver and semi-automatic navigation equipment operating on radio beacon signals . The finalized interceptor is known as the J-8E. Despite the improvements, aviation experts rated the J-8E not highly. The main disadvantages of this fighter were considered the modest characteristics of the radar and the absence of medium-range radar-guided missiles in the armament. Although the J-8A / E no longer corresponded to the realities of the 21st century and their radars and communications could be easily suppressed by the onboard electronic warfare equipment of the Tu-95MS and V-52N bombers, and missiles with TGSN launched at a distance of no more than 8 km had low noise immunity to thermal traps, the operation of interceptors continued until 2010. There is information that some of the decommissioned obsolete interceptors have been converted into radio-controlled Drones.

Even before the start of mass production of the J-8, it was clear that the capabilities of the onboard radar would be very limited by the size of the air intake cone. Due to the inability to place a large and powerful radar on the interceptor in the late 70's, the design of the interceptor with side air intakes began. In the West, it is assumed that the layout of the front of the interceptor J-8II, which first took off in June 1984, was influenced by the familiarity of Chinese specialists with Soviet MiG-23 fighters received from Egypt. The SL-8A (Type 4) radar station with a detection range of up to 208 km is located in the cone-shaped bow of the J-40II. The dry weight of the J-8II increased by about 8 kg compared with the J-700A. The flight data of the aircraft was improved due to the installation of the engines WP-13А (copy Р-13-300) with the afterburner 65,9 kN and more advanced aerodynamics. In addition, the radically upgraded interceptor has become stronger. Thanks to the use of outboard fuel tanks, the combat radius remains the same.


J-8II interceptor


Although a more powerful radar was installed on the J-8II, the combat capabilities of the new interceptor fighter compared to the J-8A / E increased not much. The reason for this was the absence of medium-range missiles in the armament, the arsenal of the J-8II remained the same: the 23-mm built-in cannon and melee missiles with TGS on four suspension nodes.

Realizing that the characteristics of the new interceptor still do not correspond to modern realities, the Chinese leadership took a nonstandard step. As part of Sino-US cooperation in 1986, a contract worth more than $ 500 million was signed for the modernization of the Chinese J-8II interceptors in the United States. Details of the secret program known as “Peace Pearl” have not been disclosed until now. But a number of sources say that Chinese radar AN / APG-66 (V), MIL-STD 1553B data communication buses, fire control computers, multifunction displays, the indicator on the windshield should have been installed on Chinese fighter-interceptors. modern navigation and communication equipment, ejection seat from the company Martin-Baker.


Satellite image of Google Earth: J-11, J-8 and J-7 fighters at the factory airfield in Shenyang

At the beginning of 1989, two J-8II fighter planes specially prepared in Shenyang were delivered to the US Air Force Flight Test Center Edwards Air Base. According to Western data in the People's Republic of China, they managed to prepare for the installation of an American interceptor 24 BREO. However, after the events on Tiananmen Square, the Americans curtailed military-technical cooperation with the PRC, and J-8II had to continue further improvement on its own.

However, the Chinese experts managed to pry the Americans not a little useful. After breaking the contract with the United States on the interceptor known as the J-8II Batch 02 (J-8IIB), an improved SL-8A BRLS with a detection range of 70 km, multi-functional displays and a modern at the time navigation equipment appeared. But before the option that was to be obtained in the framework of the Peace Pearl program, the interceptor did not fit. The capabilities of the fire control system were very modest, and the main weapons still remained melee missiles. However, this version was launched into mass production. After the upgrade, the installation of airborne refueling equipment and medium-range missiles PL-11 (a copy of AIM-7 Sparrow), the aircraft received the designation J-8IID (J-8D). The interceptor's standard armament was two medium-range PL-11 SDs with semi-active radar guidance and two PL-5 short-range melee missiles with a thermal homing head.


Interceptor J-8IIB upgraded to the level of J-8IIDF


As part of the next upgrade from 2004, J-8IID interceptors equipped a Type 1492 BRLS, capable of seeing an air target with an 1 ESR, flying towards you at a distance of up to 100 km. The armament was introduced missiles PL-12 and PL-8. After installing a new radar, weapons control system, new navigation and communications equipment, the aircraft received the designation J-8IIDF.

The cancellation of the project “Peace Pearl” coincided with the normalization of relations with the USSR and the Soviet specialists turned out to be the Soviet X010 “Beetle-8-II” radar, which was specially adapted for installation on the F-8IIM interceptor. According to the brochures, the detection range of this station is 75 km. It also became possible to use Russian medium-range missiles P-27 with semi-active radar seeker.


F-8IIM interceptor with Russian-made P-27 and P-73 missiles


However, the PLA Air Force commander after being familiarized with the heavy Su-27SK fighter was not impressed with the capabilities of the F-8IIM interceptor, and no orders were given for it.

Almost simultaneously with the F-8IIM, the J-8IIC was tested. This interceptor used the Israeli avionics: a multi-mode radar Elta EL / M 2035, a digital fire control system, a “glass cabin” with multi-functional displays, navigation equipment INS / GPS. To increase the range of flight on the aircraft installed equipment refueling in the air. Many of the insights gained from those who did not follow the F-8IIM and J-8IIC series were used to create the J-8IIH interceptor (J-8H). The main innovation introduced on this modification was the KLJ-1 radar with target detection range with 1 ESR ESR - 75 km. The composition of weapons introduced medium-range missiles: Russian P-27 and Chinese and PL-11. The J-8IIH interceptor was adopted in 2002 year as a temporary measure, until the end of the tests of the J-8IIF modification (J-8F).


J-8H interceptor with PL-11 rocket and outboard fuel tank


Since 2004, PLA Air Force began supplying J-8IIF interceptors. This modification is equipped with a Type 1492 radar and PL-12 missiles with a launch range of up to 80 km. Two WP-13BII engines with a total load of 137,4 kN afterburner accelerated the interceptor at a high altitude up to 2300 km. Maximum take-off weight 18880 kg normal - 15200 kg. Thrust-to-0,98. Some interceptors equipped the WP-14 TRDF with a forcing after XSUMNK, which significantly improved the thrust-to-weight ratio and acceleration characteristics. However, the maximum speed for reasons of strength was limited to the same value, while the WP-75 engines themselves were not very reliable.

The combat radius of action without refueling in the air, with outboard tanks exceeds 900 km. Maximum operating overload - up to 8 g. The main means of defeating air targets are the PL-12 and PL-8 missiles with a maximum launch range of 80 and 20 km.


J-8IIF interceptor with PL-12 and PL-8 missiles


Although considerable resources were allocated for the creation of various modifications of J-8, by the Chinese standards, little was built up of two-engined triangular-wing interceptors. The construction of the new aircraft continued until the 2008 of the year, and the revision of the previously built aircraft to the level of the most advanced serial modification of the J-8IIF - to the 2012 of the year. According to American data, the Chinese aviation industry has built approximately 380 J-8 aircraft of all modifications, this number, in addition to interceptors, also included reconnaissance aircraft. In 2017, interceptors of J-8IIDF, J-8IIF and J-8IIH modifications in the PLA Air Force were equipped with 6 fighter regiments, another 1 regiment on J-8H was in naval aviation.

The most notorious incident involving J-8IID was a collision with an American aircraft of electronic intelligence. 1 April 2001 radar calculation YLC-4 located in the southeastern part of Hainan Island discovered an air target flying at an altitude of 6700 m at a speed of about 370 km / h along the border of Chinese territorial waters. Two interceptors from the 25 th Fighter Aviation Regiment included in the 9 Airborne Division took up an unidentified air target from the Lingshui airbase located on the east coast of the island.


Satellite image of Google Earth: J-8II fighter-interceptors in the parking lot of the Lingshui airbase, Hainan Island

Having approached, the pilots of Chinese interceptors identified the target as EP-3E ARIES II - an American electronic reconnaissance aircraft based on the anti-submarine P-3 Orion. During the maneuvers, the American aircraft dropped to 2400 m and slowed down.


J-8IID interceptor colliding with 1 on April 2001 of the year with the American EP-3E ARIES II electronic reconnaissance aircraft

During a close maneuvering, with the third overflight of the intruder, one of the interceptors collided with it and fell into the South China Sea. His pilot went missing and was subsequently found dead. The damaged aircraft of the RTR EP-3E ARIES II under the threat of the use of weapons was put on the Chinese airbase Lingshui. As a result, the Chinese military had at its disposal cryptographic and reconnaissance equipment, encryption keys, call signs and radio frequency lists of the US Navy, secret information regarding the operation of the radar posts of the PRC, Vietnam, the DPRK and Russia. The American crew from 24 man was released on April 11. Aircraft EP-3E ARIES II 3 July 2001, disassembled, returned to the United States aboard the Russian heavy transport aircraft An-124.

Despite modern avionics and long-range missiles, the in-service Chinese J-8II interceptor fighters look quite archaic and are a mixture of 60-70's aviation technology with a patch of modern avionics and weapons. In fact, in the People's Republic of China, the evolutionary path from Su-9 to Su-15 was repeated in the USSR 40 years ago. Like the Soviet fighter-interceptor C-9, Su-11 and Su-15, the entire line of Chinese J-8 was sharpened for high-speed interception of single targets flying at medium and high altitudes. The main emphasis was placed on acceleration characteristics, radar detection range and increasing the missile launch distance. In close combat maneuver, the J-8 interceptors of all modifications are hopelessly inferior to the MiG-21, and cannot compete with modern fighters. Despite the fact that the process of creating and refining airborne avionics and armament J-8II was unacceptably long, and 4 fighter jets began to enter the combat regiments of the PLA Air Force, the Chinese leadership found it necessary to continue work on creating new versions of the delta wing interceptor. Apparently, this decision was made due to the need to develop its own aviation design and scientific school and develop the necessary practical experience. At the same time on the latest modifications of the J-8II, the elements of the avionics that were used later on the heavy J-11 fighters were tested.

To be continued ...

Based on:
https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1052
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-Fighters.html
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7-variants.htm
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19725.0
https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=212
https://sinodefence.wordpress.com/2016/11/28/shenyang-j8/
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/missile.htm
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/wp14.htm
103 comments
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  1. +4
    3 February 2019 06: 39
    Great cycle, Sergey, we look forward to continuing good Of course, while the Chinese brothers still do not have much experience in design, but based on the available information on the number of workers employed in various R&D, they gradually reduce the gap from the rest. The pace may not be Stakhanov’s, but it is still alarming. hi
  2. +3
    3 February 2019 09: 31
    Despite the fact that the in-service Chinese fighter-interceptors J-8II look quite archaic, the American EP-3E ARIES II electronic reconnaissance aircraft landed and had all the secrets on it. Well done.
    1. +10
      3 February 2019 09: 37
      Quote: prior
      Despite the fact that the in-service Chinese fighter-interceptors J-8II look quite archaic, the American EP-3E ARIES II electronic reconnaissance aircraft landed and had all the secrets on it. Well done.

      The American editions wrote that the emergency replacement of compromised cryptographic equipment and encryption keys in the US Navy cost the US budget about $ 500 million. In addition, the Chinese had information about the true capabilities of the American anti-submarine forces, which later corrected the Chinese combat patrol routes. SSBN
      1. +4
        3 February 2019 09: 39
        Fine. So, from time to time by landing American intelligence, you can destroy the Pentagon.
        1. +10
          3 February 2019 09: 45
          Quote: prior
          Fine. So, from time to time by landing American intelligence, you can destroy the Pentagon.

          After this incident, US Navy patrol and reconnaissance aircraft began to plot their course very carefully, as far as possible away from the Chinese border. In the event that a radio exchange characteristic of the takeoff of fighters was detected, the American Orions and Poseidons usually quickly retreat. In general, everything is the same as with the air defense of the USSR during the Cold War.
          1. +10
            3 February 2019 10: 07
            As for Hainan Island, after the incident with the American intelligence officer EP-3E ARIES II in the PRC, the air defense of this area was seriously strengthened. In the period from 2003 to 2016, the fleet of ground-based radar stations was renewed on Hinan, two HQ-16 medium-range air defense systems were deployed on the island, the outdated J-8II interceptors were replaced by J-11B and Su-30MKK fighters, with Lingshui fighter jets replaced by Lingshui fighter jets, with Lingshui fighter jets replaced by J-3B and Su-500MKK fighters, with Lingshui fighter jets replaced by L-XNUMXII fighter jets, and the Lingshui fighter jets were replaced by the Lingshui fighter jets. The XNUMX of the DRLO KJ-XNUMX aircraft began to be based (in the satellite image).
          2. +5
            3 February 2019 10: 14
            Quote: Bongo
            After this incident, patrol and reconnaissance aircraft of the US Navy began to very carefully plot their course, as far as possible not approaching the Chinese border.

            Oh, it's a shame for our country. And as in the USSR it was:
            To all ships in the area, a USS is called out of San Diego! - Strengthened our confidence in the future airborne station "Raid". The American fishing trawlers lying nearby were ignored by the warriors.

            “A ship in my course five miles, answer me!” The aircraft carrier Carl Vinson is calling!

            This is us. I looked in the direction of the assistant:

            - Answer?

            - Come on!

            “Yu-es-es“ Carl Vinson, ”answers the ship according to your course. Switch to the 11 channel for further communication, - put the receiver into the socket and repeatedly pressed the button until the number "11" was highlighted.

            - Thank you sir! Please let me know if you see a Soviet ship in your area? - emerged on the new channel "Carluccio".

            - No, skipper. Only American flag fishing vessels. You can safely follow the course taken.

            “Thanks for the help, sir!” - the aircraft carrier was delighted, - Notify the type of your ship.

            - Auxiliary of the Navy. The end of the connection - quickly finished unnecessary inquiries, sent the phone to its place.

            “Vinson” significantly increased its speed and, after 15 minutes, it was already half a mile on our port side. A stunned watch officer stood on his bridge, no longer expecting anything good from such a pleasant day.

            I looked at the starpom again.

            - Come on! - he smiled.

            “Carl Vinson, have you found the Soviet ship?” - I asked in a very serious voice.

            - Soviet ship, says the commander of the aircraft carrier. Stop any attempts to get in touch with us! - Admiral's voice sounded like the voice of a vampire, stumbled upon a bunch of garlic.

            https://libking.ru/books/short-story/576670-51-oleg-rykov-charli-charli-bravo.html#book
            1. +10
              3 February 2019 10: 17
              We could afford it, because behind our every sailor or pilot was POWER... And now, for the most part, we express "concern". negative
        2. -3
          3 February 2019 11: 06
          Quote: prior
          So, from time to time landing American intelligence, you can ruin the Pentagon.

          They print grandmothers, but do not receive resources from the sale. They will draw a few more tokens on virtual accounts, and the rest of the world will pay for it all together. request
  3. +7
    3 February 2019 09: 47
    To the author, as always, 5+. The myth of China as a country incapable of producing its high-tech things is slowly fluttering. China is investing more and more in R&D and now it will irrevocably bypass us!
    1. +6
      3 February 2019 09: 50
      Quote: reveny
      Author as always 5 +

      Thank you! hi
      Quote: reveny
      The myth of China as a country not capable of producing its high-tech things is slowly waving. China is investing more and more in R & D, and now it’s going to get around us irretrievably!

      Unfortunately, those for whom this cycle was originally intended, did not consider it possible to comment on it, and apparently did not read it. request
      1. mvg
        +2
        3 February 2019 10: 22
        and apparently didn’t read

        The cycle is big '+'. For example, I did not know about Orion ... It is not even clear why the equipment was not destroyed in the air.
        Yeshe is surprised that J-8IIDF went before 2008, i.e. quite modern year. This is when the PRC already had J-11B, J-10A ..
        Have they really advanced so much in 5-6 years that they launched the J-2011 in 20? Leaping leaps and bounds. Just a geometric progression.
        1. +7
          3 February 2019 10: 26
          Quote: mvg
          About Orion I, for example, did not know ...

          Well, it's impossible to know everything, although at one time this incident was widely reported.
          Quote: mvg
          It is not even clear why the equipment was not destroyed in the air.

          Believe me, quickly destroy cryptographic and intelligence equipment is not so easy, especially on board an aircraft in the air. The crew managed to partially destroy what the documentation and hard drives in the on-board computers.
          Quote: mvg
          Yeshe is surprised that J-8IIDF went before 2008, i.e. quite modern year. This is when the PRC already had J-11B, J-10A ..

          At that time, J-11B, J-10A only began to enter the PLA Air Force. As soon as it became clear that the PRC aircraft industry was able to saturate the units with new fighters and their quality and characteristics correspond to the declared construction of the J-8II.
          1. mvg
            +4
            3 February 2019 11: 14
            Believe me, quickly destroying cryptographic and reconnaissance equipment is not easy

            Sergei, it makes sense, in that case ... to jump out with a parachute and crash the plane over the ocean. Pollyard $ is a lot, even for the Pentagon. By the way, in my understanding, Orion / Poseidon itself costs 200 million. The Chinese got good "cookies" ... data, equipment, aircraft.
            1. +6
              3 February 2019 13: 17
              Quote: mvg
              Sergei, it makes sense, in that case ... to jump out with a parachute and crash the plane over the ocean. Pollyard $ is a lot, even for the Pentagon. By the way, in my understanding, Orion / Poseidon itself costs 200 million. The Chinese got good "cookies" ... data, equipment, aircraft.

              Maxim, the pilot of the Chinese J-8II who came into contact with EP-3E seemed to have ejected, but was not found. On board the American aircraft RTR was a double crew of 24 people. Imagine how sharks would be happy?
              After returning to the US, the crew did not make any complaints. The pilot of EP-3E, Lt. Shane Osborne, was awarded for "heroism and extraordinary achievements" in flight.
  4. +7
    3 February 2019 11: 32
    Thank you Sergey, I learned a lot about the Chinese Air Force and Air Defense, as a rule, infa on them is either not accessible or distorted.
  5. +1
    3 February 2019 11: 59
    Generally speaking, with proper organization and communication protected from interference, even BTA aircraft can be used as interceptors. With small additions to enable the launch of long-range missiles. Not enough, these planes can be unmanned
    1. +9
      3 February 2019 13: 22
      Quote: Spade
      Generally speaking, with proper organization and communication protected from interference, even BTA aircraft can be used as interceptors. With small additions to enable the launch of long-range missiles. Not enough, these planes can be unmanned

      You are not the first to propose the concept of a locking interceptor. But in addition to long-range missiles, powerful radar, protected communication channels and guidance, a modern interceptor must have high acceleration characteristics, the ability to make supersonic throws and the altitude 18-20 km.
      1. +1
        3 February 2019 13: 33
        Quote: Bongo
        interceptor must have high acceleration characteristics

        What for?
        No, if these interceptors are few, if they have a relatively short time on air, your words are true. But this hardly applies to BTA aircraft
        1. +8
          3 February 2019 13: 46
          Quote: Spade
          What for?

          Weird question request
          Naturally, in order to take a convenient position to intercept and prevent a breakthrough of carriers of the Kyrgyz Republic to the launch line.
          Quote: Spade
          But this is hardly the case with VTA aircraft.

          I am afraid that the operating costs for the "interceptors" based on the transports will be excessive and the efficiency questionable. During the Soviet era, the issue of creating an interceptor based on the Tu-22M was considered, but based on the experience of operating the Tu-128, this was abandoned. I did not find the Tu-128, but colleagues who served in the European north spoke of them with disdain. It was not always possible to withdraw the aircraft with a maximum operational overload of 2,5g even on the CR-135, let alone more high-speed and maneuverable targets.
          1. 0
            3 February 2019 14: 57
            Quote: Bongo
            Naturally, in order to take a convenient position for interception

            What for?
            Is the rocket bad, or there is no connection?
            Quote: Bongo
            but based on the operating experience of the Tu-128

            I apologize, but since its use literally everything has changed. With the same success, you can appeal to the operating experience of the I-16
            1. +5
              3 February 2019 15: 03
              Quote: Spade
              What for?
              Is the rocket bad, or there is no connection?

              Large distances.
              Quote: Spade
              I apologize, but since its use literally everything has changed. With the same success, you can appeal to the operating experience of the I-16

              Well, why, the concept is the same. And the characteristics of the Tu-128 in any case higher than that of any transport.
              I have a question for you. Koka from the transport aircraft available in the Russian Aerospace Force of the Russian Federation do you see the role of an interceptor, with which missiles and which radar?
              1. 0
                3 February 2019 15: 11
                Quote: Bongo
                Great distances

                That is a bad rocket
                Quote: Bongo
                And the characteristics of the Tu-128

                With this concept, completely different characteristics matter, above all the time and cost of air patrols.
                1. +6
                  3 February 2019 15: 18
                  Quote: Spade
                  That is a bad rocket

                  Whichever missile it was, the concept of the burglar interceptor did not justify itself.
                  Quote: Spade
                  With this concept, completely different characteristics matter, above all the time and cost of air patrols.

                  Which aircraft, which rocket and which radar?
                  1. 0
                    3 February 2019 17: 03
                    Quote: Bongo
                    Whichever missile it was, the concept of the burglar interceptor did not justify itself.

                    Here you are absolutely wrong, everything is determined precisely by a rocket, if it is fast enough, long-range and capable of active maneuvering, then even a tethered balloon is suitable as its carrier
                    Quote: Bongo
                    Which aircraft, which rocket and which radar?

                    Plane? I do not know. Long-range missile, it is still needed. But the radar is better placed on a separate plane
          2. +3
            3 February 2019 20: 39
            Quote: Bongo
            Naturally, in order to take a convenient position to intercept and prevent a breakthrough of carriers of the Kyrgyz Republic to the launch line.

            Nearby programs for high-speed high-altitude targets, cruise missile carriers, on the contrary, are intercepted on afterburners.

            Quote: Bongo
            but based on the operating experience of the Tu-128, this was abandoned.

            The Su-27 was created, which surpassed it in flight duration, and all sorts of projects of varying degrees of inadequacy always had a place to be.

            Quote: Bongo
            I did not find the Tu-128, but colleagues serving in the European North spoke of them with disdain.

            7 years watched these machines. The flight crew loved them, especially proud that they could walk on a supersonic without a boost.

            Quote: Bongo
            It was not always possible to bring out an airplane with a maximum operational overload of 2,5g even on the CR-135

            It is doubtful, when flying to intercept such a goal, there is no need to create large overloads.
            1. +4
              4 February 2019 03: 46
              Quote: Lozovik
              It is doubtful, when flying to intercept such a goal, there is no need to create large overloads.

              The interceptor must not only have good acceleration characteristics and altitude, but the ability to quickly take a comfortable position for interception. The greater the operational overload, the faster such a maneuver is performed. Do not forget that interception over the sea in most cases occurs at a considerable distance from the interceptor. And if the latter is not too agile, even the CR-135 can leave the zone.
              1. +2
                4 February 2019 19: 46
                Quote: Bongo
                The interceptor should not only have good acceleration characteristics and altitude

                This is clearly not about the Tu-128. winked The fighters of that time accelerated sluggishly.

                Quote: Bongo
                The greater the operational overload, the faster such a maneuver is performed

                Even if you attack from a 4/4 angle (I don’t think that the Tu-128 RLPK allows this), an angular speed of 3-4 deg / s is enough to combine the ring with the crosshair, ny = 2,5 is enough. I repeat, I do not think that the Tu-128 had problems with intercepting the RC-135, B-52 and the like.

                Quote: Bongo
                Do not forget that the interception above the sea in most cases occurs at a considerable distance from the interceptor. And if the latter is not too quick, then even the CR-135 can leave the zone.

                If there is enough fuel, then for God's sake. Only here, even at the MiG-31 there will be an intercept line of about 700 km, the program is about this: climb to the FS with the number M = 0,8 to H = 10-11, acceleration to M = 1,7 at H = const and acceleration from climb to H = 18, M = 2,35. Yes, it’s profitable in time, but 700 km is not enough.
              2. 0
                April 3 2019 17: 25
                convenient position for interception

                explain what it means
                I thought a comfortable position, it’s just enough height and enough distance.
            2. +3
              4 February 2019 07: 08
              Quote: Lozovik
              7 years watched these machines. The flight crew loved them, especially proud that they could walk on a supersonic without a boost.

              How high and how long? As a high-altitude interceptor, a locking interceptor, this plane was not bad, but it also had a lot of minuses, and the car was in many ways problematic.
              1. +1
                4 February 2019 19: 52
                According to the OPP, the lower echelon is 11100. If the AL-7F does not have a time limit for maximum operation, then until the fuel runs out, there should be no other restrictions, the speeds are not the same.
  6. -6
    3 February 2019 13: 40
    As the MiG-31 understood, they could not repeat it, and the cheers the patriots have nothing to do with
    1. +7
      3 February 2019 13: 50
      Quote: bmv04636
      As the MiG-31 understood, they could not repeat it, and the cheers the patriots have nothing to do with

      And in China was such a goal? They generally MiG-31 in the export version offered. In addition, currently underway serial production J-20A, which is officially adopted into service.
      In general, you are not tired of the rally?
      1. -6
        3 February 2019 13: 53
        As it is now seen it is needed. It turned out that the MiG-31 is not a bad base for hypersound is not it. And the one in his not bad can attach the aircraft carrier is not it.
        1. +10
          3 February 2019 13: 57
          Quote: bmv04636
          As it is now seen it is needed. It turned out that the MiG-31 is not a bad base for hypersound is not it. And the one in his not bad can attach the aircraft carrier is not it.

          We are talking about air defense or about fighting aircraft carriers. In my cycle, I did not specifically begin to talk about the Chinese strike aircraft, since this is a completely different story. However, you probably "do not know", but the 5th generation fighter has cruising supersonic speed. Personally, I do not doubt that the Chinese J-20 will have it.
          Also, I would be very grateful to you if you told me what CRP can carry MiG-31?
          1. 0
            April 3 2019 17: 27
            where is the confidence that the Chinese can make cruising supersonic?
            It seems to me that their experience does not give confidence, but only a prerequisite.
        2. +4
          3 February 2019 14: 05
          Quote: bmv04636
          The MiG-31 is not a bad base for hypersound is it? And the one in his not bad can attach the aircraft carrier is not it.

          Quote: Bongo
          We are talking about air defense or about the fight against aircraft carriers.

          What do you cling to the reader?
          It is immediately evident that the person is fully developed and has a perfect understanding of the subject. wink
          Is not it?
          1. +10
            3 February 2019 14: 07
            Quote: Mister X
            What do you cling to the reader?

            You are right of course. With a knowledgeable person can not argue ... wink
          2. -6
            3 February 2019 14: 44
            Air defense is an umbrella under the cover of which our own people work. Aircraft carriers as the main argument of the "light elves". They constantly drive these troughs to show their presence their flag to those places where, in their opinion, they are not respected.
            1. +8
              3 February 2019 15: 00
              Quote: bmv04636
              Air defense is an umbrella under the guise of which work and their own.

              It seems that you just do not understand what you are talking about or consciously replace concepts.
              What role can air defenses play in the fight against aircraft carriers? Or do you not distinguish between air defense and the struggle for air supremacy?
              Quote: bmv04636
              Aircraft carriers as the main argument of the "light elves". They constantly drive these troughs to show their presence their flag to those places where, in their opinion, they are not respected.

              Remind me please, when the "troughs" of the "light elves" were approaching the coast of the PRC? And refresh my knowledge regarding the anti-ship potential of the PLA Navy, otherwise I might have forgotten something and the US Navy had the opportunity to operate with impunity off the coast of China in the F / A-18 combat radius zone?
              1. -4
                3 February 2019 15: 10
                16 years at the peak of American military interest. And the warm water sharks of the South China Sea (SCM), where two (two!) Powerful US Navy strike groups ply and conduct joint exercises these days south of the Philippines.
                They are led by two nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, Ronald Reagan and John Stennis, gigantic floating skyscrapers over 330 meters long. Each carries up to 90 aircraft, helicopters and landing convertoplanes, and the main striking force is the combat multipurpose Ef-18 Hornet, capable of delivering strikes at impressive distances from their floating airfield.
                The aircraft carriers are accompanied by a slaughter retinue - each with at least one missile cruiser, a gaggle of compact but deadly Aegis missile distroyers capable of destroying anything flying. And then there are submarines that cover groups from the ocean depths. "Reagan" is our, almost native, he is permanently based in Yokosuka at the entrance to Tokyo Bay. And the Stennis was thrown into the waters of East Asia off the western coast of the States only in February.
                17 year
                The US aircraft carrier group began patrolling the South China Sea area amid disagreements between Washington and Beijing over the ownership of a number of islands

                Read more at RBC:
                https://www.rbc.ru/politics/19/02/2017/58a90a619a7947417c5152d2
                As I understand it, the South China Sea, China considers its own. China is heavily designed
                1. +8
                  3 February 2019 15: 15
                  Can you communicate normally, relying on your own knowledge and citing reliable and concrete facts and figures, and not general phrases? It seems that you came to the rally or to the market.
                  Drive into the search engine: PLA Navy capabilities to combat carrier-based strike groups. And you will be happy.
              2. -5
                3 February 2019 15: 39
                The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed that on September 18 two strategic missile carriers Tu-95 flew over the Bering Sea and along the northern coast of Alaska

                “In the course of a sudden check of the combat readiness of the troops of the Eastern Military District, two Tu-95 strategic missile carriers, having taken off from the air base in Chukotka, completed the tasks of the patrol plan over the waters of the Bering Sea and along the northern coast of Alaska. The Tu-95 strategic missile carriers were accompanied by four Russian long-range fighter-interceptors MiG-31 and two Il-78 tanker aircraft, ”the Ministry of Defense said in a statement to Lenta.ru.

                The military department noted that on one of the sections of the flight route, long-range aviation crews were accompanied by one US Air Force F-22 Raptor aircraft for three minutes.

                The Ministry of Defense emphasized that the flights of the aircraft of the Air Force of Russia were carried out in strict accordance with international rules for the use of airspace over neutral waters, without violating the borders of other states.
                for example, as a cover for strategists
                1. +10
                  3 February 2019 15: 41
                  Quote: bmv04636
                  The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed that on September 18 two strategic missile carriers Tu-95 flew over the Bering Sea and along the northern coast of Alaska

                  What are you filthy branch of this official? negative
                  1. +9
                    3 February 2019 15: 50
                    Quote: Bongo
                    What are you filthy branch of this official?

                    Because there are no personal thoughts and knowledge, but there are ready-made cliches. fool
                  2. -5
                    3 February 2019 15: 59
                    They just wrote what do the air defense have to do with it, so I answered air defense planes can provide effective cover for strategists
            2. +3
              3 February 2019 15: 05
              Quote: bmv04636
              Aircraft carriers as the main argument

              More like a main rattle.
              Just look at the map, Japan with South Korea to the north and India to the south. Huge arc of "unsinkable aircraft carriers" for the United States
            3. +7
              3 February 2019 15: 33
              Quote: bmv04636
              Aircraft carriers as the main argument of the "light elves". These troughs they constantly chase like to show their presence their flag

              In my opinion, you quote word for word Monsieur Damantsev.
              1. -6
                3 February 2019 15: 34
                and he’s right if, what’s not so elfish, the battle troughs of the "light elves" immediately move to the shores
                1. +5
                  3 February 2019 15: 36
                  Quote: bmv04636
                  in elvish

                  Quote: bmv04636
                  battle troughs "light elves"

                  And why not Pokemon or Grandma? wink
                  1. -5
                    3 February 2019 15: 58
                    because the moderators do not miss the word pin-sy. And these same pin-sies consider themselves to be the supreme race carrying the light of democracy to poor people
                    1. +6
                      3 February 2019 16: 10
                      Quote: bmv04636
                      moderators do not miss the word pin-sy.

                      I understand you.
                      For example, I use literary expressions. Therefore, the moderators do not touch me.
              2. +10
                3 February 2019 15: 39
                Quote: Mister X
                In my opinion, you quote word for word Monsieur Damantsev.

                After Damancev wrote. that we have a missile defense system in the Kuriles, I offered him a tour of the Russian Far East. But he modestly kept silent, and after that he stopped responding to me in the comments.
                1. +7
                  3 February 2019 15: 54
                  Quote: Bongo
                  Damancev wrote. that we have a missile defense system in the Kuriles, I offered him a tour of the Russian Far East

                  I remember the unfortunate poet Lyapis Trubetskoy of 12 chairs.
                  - Not necessarily everywhere to be! - shouted Lyapis. Pushkin wrote Turkish poems and never been to Turkey.
                  - Oh, yes, Erzerum is in the Tula province ...
                  1. -4
                    3 February 2019 16: 53
                    I made a mistake not about air defense in Kunashir, but what will happen in the future
                    on the island of Kunashir, it is planned to commission a combat air defense zone
                    First Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Ruslan Tsalikov checked the progress of construction of military infrastructure and social facilities. He also examined the living quarters, the medical center and the service rooms for the military in the city of Lagunnoye. It seems like deploying
                    1. +5
                      3 February 2019 17: 35
                      Quote: Bongo
                      The Kuriles have a missile defense system,

                      Quote: bmv04636
                      on the island of Kunashir, it is planned to commission a combat air defense zone

                      PRO - Missile Defense
                      Air Defense - Air Defense
                      Do you feel the difference?
                      1. -6
                        3 February 2019 18: 16
                        I feel the difference. And what air defense can not shoot down missiles you want to say it
                      2. -5
                        3 February 2019 18: 18
                        "Triumph" (S-400, initially - S-300PM3, the air defense index - 40P6, according to the codification of the United States Defense Ministry and NATO - SA-21 Growler, literally "Grumbler" [1]) - Russian anti-aircraft missile system of long and medium range, anti-aircraft missile system (SAM).

                        Designed to destroy all modern and promising means of aerospace attack. On April 28, 2007, by a resolution of the Russian government, the Triumph anti-aircraft missile system was adopted [2]. Triumph is the name of the export version. According to Western analysts, the S-400, along with systems such as the Iskander OTRK and coastal anti-ship systems of the Bastion class, plays a key role in the new concept of the Russian Armed Forces, known in the West as the “Anti-Access Zone” / Area Denial, A2 / AD) [3] [4] [5], which means that NATO troops cannot be located and move within the range of A2 / AD restricted area systems without the risk of causing unacceptable damage to them.
                        Upon completion of testing a new long-range missile, the complex will be able to hit aerodynamic targets at ranges of up to 400 km and tactical ballistic targets at ranges of up to 60 km [6], flying at a speed of up to 4,8 km / s [7]: cruise missiles, tactical and strategic aviation, maneuvering ballistic missile warheads. The early detection radar provides a detection range of up to 600 km. Missiles can hit low-flying targets at a height of 5 m [8] (for comparison: the American Patriot complex is capable of hitting targets only at a height of at least 100 m). [Source not specified 121 days] Several types of missiles with different launching capabilities can be used mass and range of launch, which allows you to create a layered defense.

                        According to the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force, “they are able to effectively repulse massive air raids of modern means of air attack in conditions of intense electronic suppression and to carry out a combat mission in various weather conditions” [9].
                      3. +8
                        4 February 2019 03: 51
                        The text thoughtlessly reworked from Wikipedia looks very obscene. And how does the C-400 ZRS relate to the Kuril Islands? fool There, even in Soviet times, there were no stationary positions.
                      4. -6
                        4 February 2019 04: 38
                        “Of course, preparation in previous years, when no less important work was carried out, also has an effect,” said Viktor Litovkin, a TASS military columnist. According to the expert, despite the difficult conditions, a large amount of work has already been done in the Kuril Islands over the past few years - the modernization of the Burevestnik airdrome, the construction of military camps for soldiers and officers, and the berth capable of receiving even large warships - all completed the work is important, although not the end point of the Kuril Islands development program.

                        “Among other things, we have seriously changed the air defense system - at the moment there is a modern air defense system in the Kuril Islands - the Tor and Buk complexes are on constant combat duty,” he added. Complexes of coastal defense "Bal" and "Bastion", according to the expert, only emphasize the defensive status of weapons deployed on the islands.
                        “By deploying such complexes, we send a very clear signal that we are not going to give this territory to anyone,” Litovkin said. Experts note that, if necessary, more serious means for aerospace interception can be deployed on the islands, such as S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems, the recent deployment of which to Syria has seriously changed the plans of neighboring states for the Arab Republic.
                      5. +7
                        4 February 2019 04: 42
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        “Among other things, we have seriously changed the air defense system - at the moment there is a modern air defense system in the Kuriles - the Tor and Buk complexes.

                        "Bukov" is not there, it is disinformation. No.
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Experts say that, if necessary, more serious means for aerospace interception can be deployed on the islands - such as the C-400 anti-aircraft missile systems.

                        What for?
                        Excuse me, what is your military specialty and did you serve in the armed forces in general? Write outright nonsense. wassat

                        Especially for people like you wrote this:
                        https://topwar.ru/138460-proshloe-i-nastoyaschee-11-y-krasnoznamennoy-armii-vozdushno-kosmicheskih-sil-smogut-li-vks-rossii-zaschitit-nash-dalniy-vostok-chast-1.html

                        https://topwar.ru/138464-proshloe-i-nastoyaschee-11-y-krasnoznamennoy-armii-vozdushno-kosmicheskih-sil-smogut-li-vks-rossii-zaschitit-nash-dalniy-vostok-chast-2.html
                      6. -5
                        4 February 2019 04: 51
                        Until recently, the entire Russian territory of the Kuril Islands was covered by the 18th machine-gun-artillery division of the Russian Ministry of Defense of about 3,5 people (this is the norm in the states of peacetime). The connection is unique - the only one in the Russian army, at least by its "old-fashioned" name, which recalls the machine guns "Maxim" and "Degtyarev", with which Soviet troops liberated the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin from the Japanese invaders in 1945.

                        However, little is left of the machine guns in this division, except for the standard small arms that are in service with the RF Armed Forces. Well, if you still consider the anti-aircraft self-propelled guns ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" and ZU-23-2 "machine guns". In addition, the division includes two dozen BM-21 Grads (they are expected to be replaced with an upgraded version of the Tornado-G), a 152 mm Hyacinth self-propelled artillery division, 12 Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems ". Well, and so, just in case, 62 T-80BV tanks and several dozen BMP and MTLB.
                      7. +8
                        4 February 2019 05: 00
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        12 Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system

                        Lord, where do they get you? wassat You do not even know that the air defense system modifications "Buk-M1" withdrawn from service. fool In addition, all numbers of zrbr and zrp and their locations are published in open sources. It's funny when a frank amateur begins to talk about the 11-th OA defense.
                      8. +5
                        3 February 2019 21: 36
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        And that air defense can not shoot down missiles


                        Maybe of course.
                        I propose to understand what is what and where are located.

                        The missile defense system is designed to protect the state from a missile strike.
                        1) Tactical missile defense system to protect against missile threats to limited areas and objects.
                        2) Strategic missile defense - to combat strategic missiles
                        The main component of the Russian anti-missile radar radar "Don-2N" and the radar type Voronezh.

                        The air defense system is a rowing aviation (AI), anti-aircraft artillery systems, as well as air defense systems, air defense missile systems, MANPADS.

                        The Eastern Military District did receive C-400 complexes.
                        But BBO = Transbaikalia + Far East.
                        And on the islands Iturup and Kunashir are on duty coastal complexes Ball and Bastion with anti-ship missiles.
                        A short-range Tor-M2U short-range air defense missile system (8 units) is also deployed there.

                        What do you think, can the C-400 complexes be placed on the Kuriles?
                      9. +7
                        4 February 2019 03: 16
                        Quote: Mister X
                        What do you think, can the C-400 complexes be placed on the Kuriles?

                        Anyone who gets information from Zvezda and Wikipedia, anything is possible.
                      10. -5
                        4 February 2019 04: 27
                        Air Defense and Missile Defense Forces [1] - until 1998, an independent type of armed forces (Air Defense Forces). [2] In 1998, the Air Defense Forces were combined with the Air Force in a new type of armed forces - the Air Force. [2] In 2009-2010 all air defense units of the Russian Air Force (4 corps and 7 air defense divisions) were reorganized into 11 aerospace defense brigades. [2] In 2011, three Air Force air defense brigades became part of a new branch of the Armed Forces - the Aerospace Defense Forces.
                        In 2015, the Air Force combined with aerospace defense forces in a new form of the Armed Forces — the Aerospace Forces (VKS) [3], which included a new organizational branch — the Air Defense and Missile Defense Forces (Air Defense Troops).
                        It should be distinguished Air Defense Forces-PRO VKS [4] from Air Defense Forces of the Ground Forces (Air Defense Forces) [5].
                        Short name - Air Defense Forces.
                        The objectives of the Air Defense Forces are:
                        repulse aggression in the aerospace sphere and protect against attacks from enemy airspace attacks from command and control posts of the highest echelons of state and military command, troops (forces), administrative and political centers, industrial and economic regions, and the most important economic and infrastructure facilities on the territory of Moscow
                      11. +6
                        4 February 2019 04: 31
                        Quote: zyablik.olga
                        Anyone who gets information from Zvezda and Wikipedia, anything is possible.

                        To you, apparently, your own knowledge and thoughts are zero. We learned only to copy mindlessly from wiki. wassat My wife knows more. Can it be enough to expose themselves ridiculous?
                      12. -5
                        4 February 2019 04: 47
                        And you propose, as I understand it, to use sources such as the radio of Crimean realities. Why are you so annoyed by the source of the Russian Defense Ministry Star
                      13. +4
                        4 February 2019 04: 49
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        And you propose how to understand the use of sources such as radio freedom of Crimea real.

                        I rely on my own knowledge, which you unfortunately do not have, as well as common sense. No.
                      14. -5
                        4 February 2019 04: 59
                        about Bukov and S-400
                        On Tuesday, November 22, RIA Novosti published a report stating that military expert Viktor Murakhovsky admits the possibility of deploying S-400 anti-aircraft missile system on the Kuril Islands.
                        MOSCOW, November 22 - RIA News. In addition to anti-ship coastal missile systems (DBK), Russia can deploy the latest S-400 anti-aircraft missile system in the Kuril Islands, said Viktor Murakhovsky, editor-in-chief of Arsenal of the Fatherland magazine.

                        Earlier, the Pacific Fleet newspaper “Battle Watch” announced the deployment and military alert of the divisions of the anti-ship DBK Bastion on Iturup Island and DBK Bal on the Kunashir Island of the Kuril Ridge, as well as the preparation of these units for training missile launches.

                        “Measures to strengthen defense in the Far East, including the army corps, which is located on Sakhalin Island and the Kuril Islands, were announced by the Russian Ministry of Defense for a long time. If you carefully read, for example, the materials of the final board of the Ministry of Defense in 2014, 2015, then these things are also mentioned there, ”an expert at RIA Novosti said on Tuesday.

                        According to him, in these materials it was said about plans to place not only the BRK, but also the air defense system. “That is, the Buk anti-aircraft missile system and some other air defense systems are already located there. Perhaps the C-400 anti-aircraft missile system will appear there, ”Murakhovsky believes.
                      15. +7
                        4 February 2019 05: 02
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        According to him, in these materials it was said about plans to place not only the BRK, but also the air defense system. “That is, the Buk anti-aircraft missile system and some other air defense systems are already located there. Perhaps the C-400 anti-aircraft missile system will appear there, ”Murakhovsky believes.

                        I do not care who that believes, I am talking about what it really is. Can you like Damancevu organize a tour of the Far East.
                        Here it is, and stop raving
                        https://topwar.ru/138460-proshloe-i-nastoyaschee-11-y-krasnoznamennoy-armii-vozdushno-kosmicheskih-sil-smogut-li-vks-rossii-zaschitit-nash-dalniy-vostok-chast-1.html

                        https://topwar.ru/138464-proshloe-i-nastoyaschee-11-y-krasnoznamennoy-armii-vozdushno-kosmicheskih-sil-smogut-li-vks-rossii-zaschitit-nash-dalniy-vostok-chast-2.html
                      16. -5
                        4 February 2019 05: 06
                        "The air defense alert zone and military social facilities on Kunashir Island will be commissioned by the end of 2018 ... Colonel Alexander Malinin, the commander of the machine gun and artillery regiment of the Eastern Military District (VVO), reported to Ruslan Tsalikov about the commissioning of military infrastructure facilities on Kunashir Island." , - the message says. This is reported by Rambler. Further: https://news.rambler.ru/army/39915343/?utm_content=rnews&utm_medium=read_more&utm_source=copylink
                        And you know exactly what will go there. And what do you think of covering the Ball and the Bastion
                      17. +8
                        4 February 2019 05: 10
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        And what do you think about your Ball and Bastion?

                        The grouping deployed in the Kuril Islands is covered by the regimental set of the "Tor" air defense system, there are also the Strela-10 air defense systems and the Shilka air defense system. Well, of course MANPADS and some ZU-23. Radar support for mobile radar P-18.
                      18. -1
                        4 February 2019 19: 12
                        I apologize for such a long answer. Work work (not that there is no Internet, and the phone at the checkpoint is seized). So we won’t talk a lot of the lyrics convinced your arguments are reinforced concrete, but they placed the Bastion and the Ball, the airfield with the Su-35 (if I'm not mistaken), placed (restored). And just around the corner and the S-400 to cover this entire economy (Kaliningrad as an example) The infrastructure for this has already been created. And yes it’s not necessary to offend the wife so much and can take offense
                      19. +3
                        5 February 2019 02: 17
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Your arguments are reinforced concrete, but Bastion and Ball have placed, the airfield with Su-35 (if I am not mistaken) have placed placed (restored).

                        The Burevestnik airfield was slightly patched up, but fighters are not constantly based there, since there is no need for this, and the infrastructure is not the same.
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        And just around the corner and C-400 to cover the whole of this economy (Kaliningrad in the example)

                        You should not compare the Kaliningrad region with the Kuril Islands. The islands have an extreme climate, and there is no point in deploying long-range, very expensive anti-aircraft systems. Even in the times of the USSR, they did not. We now have a huge number of more important objects without anti-aircraft cover: nuclear power plants, hydroelectric power stations and areas of deployment of the Strategic Missile Forces.
                      20. 0
                        5 February 2019 04: 59
                        After all, the S-400 is not only an air defense system in recent times, but politics, if necessary, will be placed at least for the start of the S-300. Balls and Bastions without an umbrella will not leave the new rebuilt barracks A at the expense of climate. Navkrno no worse than
                      21. +3
                        4 February 2019 16: 21
                        Quote: Bongo
                        I do not care who believes that I am talking about what really is. I can organize a tour of the Far East like Damantseva

                        Hi, hello! I do not need. In general, there is officialdom: the 3rd Red Banner Command of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Eastern Military District - the operational association of the Air Force of the Russian Federation.
                        Formed on December 1, 2009 on the basis of the 11th Red Banner Army of the Air Force and Air Defense. Management is in the city of Khabarovsk. On August 1, 2015, it was again reorganized into the 11th Red Banner Army of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Eastern Military District. As far as I remember, but the ZRDNov Neither the 24th Air Defense Division of the 23rd, nor subsequently the 72nd Air Defense Corps in the Kuril Islands was and never is. and now there are no listed associations. The cover of the army and navy units and subunits always fell on the air defense of the army and navy.
                      22. +3
                        4 February 2019 10: 02
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Viktor Murakhovsky, admits the possibility of deploying the K-400 anti-aircraft missile system on the Kuriles.


                        Square Kunashir 1 490 square. km
                        The length of the island is 123 km, and the width is from 7 to 30 km
                        This is not Kuba, 110 860 square. km

                        For C-400, neither turn around nor disguise.
                        And to Japan about 20 km.
                        Do you really think that someone will thoughtlessly place the newest complex on a patch of land under the nose of a state with which no peace treaty has been concluded?
                        As you know, Japan claims to this and the neighboring islands.
                      23. -3
                        5 February 2019 05: 02
                        Syria and where there we camouflaged the S-400. Just for the cooling of Japan for political reasons, they can also deliver in light of the fact that the light elves left the Treaty
                        In addition to the transfer of weapons, Russia has deployed in Syria the advanced S-400 Triumph anti-aircraft missile systems (NATO classification SA-21 Growler, Grumpy). This is reported by the British edition of The Daily Mail, citing pictures taken by 50 Western journalists invited by the Russian Ministry of Defense to the Khmeimim airbase in the Syrian province of Latakia, where Russian aviation is based. This is reported by Rambler. Further: https://news.rambler.ru/world/31920097/?utm_content=rnews&utm_medium=read_more&utm_source=copylink
                      24. +3
                        5 February 2019 05: 14
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Syria and where we masked the C-400.

                        I assure you, I am able to find any stationary position of the air defense system, including in Syria. Let's argue on a bottle of brandy, what is it?
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Just for the cooling of Japan for political reasons can and put in the light of the fact that the light elves left the treaty DRSM

                        If you want to be taken seriously by professionals, use the appropriate terminology and exclude from your vocabulary: "light elves", "karyta", etc.
                        Believe me, I understand this a bit - to place long-range, very expensive and vulnerable anti-aircraft systems in the Kuril Islands, from a military point of view - great stupidity.
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        And at the expense of climate. Probably no worse than

                        You judge what is very poorly informed. Think about how the power supply of defense facilities on Novaya Zemlya and the Kuriles is carried out? What is the difference? And what is the flight time for tactical / carrier-based aircraft of "probable partners" to these areas? As for the climate, until 2012 on Novaya Zemlya there were mothballed C-75M3 air defense systems, and they could well be returned to working condition. In the Kuril Islands, the climate for the safety of air defense equipment is much more difficult.
                      25. -3
                        5 February 2019 05: 22
                        USA Army Deploying its missile defense systems in Romania in your opinion is overly stupid. And to place for example a ZRS-400 and cover Japan with an umbrella is nonsense according to your nonsense, our air defense systems and in Syria they are there in full view. We have built a base in the Arctic. The conditions for energy supply there are no better and the weather will be much worse.
                      26. +3
                        5 February 2019 05: 36
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Army USA. Places its antimissiles in Romania. In your opinion, this is beyond stupidity.

                        Army or Air Force? wink
                        Take a compass and compare the distance from the missile defense interceptors in Romania and the border of our territorial waters in Kunashir. Honestly, you disappoint me ... negative
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        And to place for example the ZRS-400 and cover Japan with an umbrella is nonsense according to your nonsense our air defenses and in Syria they are there at a glance.

                        You believe that the Israeli Air Force will strike at our base or someone makes territorial claims to Russia in Syria. No. There the situation is completely different.
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        We have built a base in the Arctic conditions for energy there is no better and the weather will believe much worse

                        Yes you that ... wassat On Novaya Zemlya, the average temperature is lower, but there is no such humidity, earthquakes, the threat of tsunamis and regular destructive typhoons. I repeat once again, please judge that what you are competent in, otherwise it looks silly and I have a feeling that I am wasting time with you in vain. hi
                      27. -3
                        5 February 2019 20: 46
                        I apologize for such a long answer. Let’s see the base, the barracks are built, the air defense combat zone is being deployed, and with what weapons we’ll think I think, apart from the TORs, there will be air defense systems and more serious ones, for example, for the beginning of the S-300 we will wait until the end of the year (in light of the exit of the patient from the DRSM)
                        and how do you like such a turn
                        MOSCOW, Feb 5 - RIA News. The four Russian Kuril Islands, claimed by Japan, are an ideal place to deploy American missiles, writes Japan Business Press.
                        This step will strengthen the protection of the United States and Japan from North Korean ballistic missiles, the publication said.
                      28. -3
                        5 February 2019 20: 51
                        Forgot from the borders of Romania to our no more than 245 km. so the romanians are near
                      29. +2
                        5 February 2019 23: 49
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        I forgot from the borders of Romania to ours no more than 245 km.

                        Stop talking nonsense!
                        I'm just shocked by your knowledge ...
                        What kind of ours? Red or square?
                        Have you ever checked the card?

                        Moldova and Russia are located between Romania and Russia.
                        Remember Yassko-Chisinau operation.
                        Iasi - the eastern border of Romania.
                        Chisinau is the capital of Moldova.
                        If you drive on the highway - the distance is about 150 km.
                        If you hold a straight line - will be about 100 km.
                        Do you really think that the border of the Russian Federation begins a hundred kilometers from Chisinau?
                        No, my dear!
                        At this distance is Tiraspol, the capital of Transnistria.

                        Quote: bmv04636
                        so the Romanians are near

                        Well, yes, yes ...
                        I would say that next, but the moderators will delete.
                      30. -3
                        6 February 2019 04: 46
                        from the coast of Crimea to Romania a little more than 200 km, or Russia does not think Crimea
                      31. -3
                        6 February 2019 04: 58
                        Black Sea Tuluchi -310 km. Evpatoria-Tuluchi 350 km Bucharest Sevastopol 592 km. Sit down Mr. Two to you in geography or you live in reality where Crimea is still Ukraine so wake up. Crimea-Russia since 2014
                      32. +2
                        6 February 2019 10: 55
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        I forgot from the borders of Romania to ours no more than 245 km.

                        Quote: bmv04636
                        from the coast of the Crimea to Romania just over 200 km

                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Chernomorskoye Toluchi -310 km.

                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Sit down lord two

                        Mr. Gunner, you have a spread in 110 km.
                        Sit down, unit.
                      33. 0
                        6 February 2019 19: 55
                        from coast to coast errors of 218 km to be more precise. Taki Crimea whose and Mr. Mr. X
                      34. +2
                        6 February 2019 23: 32
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        Taki Crimea is whose and Mr. Mr. x

                        Crimea is still Russian.
                        Thanks for reminding and sorry for the sharpness.

                        I assure you, the Romanians will not get to the Crimea in the Black Sea.
                        Read about the state of the Romanian fleet in the series of Romanian frigates in the 21 century
                        Posted here https://topwar.ru/user/Mister+X/

                        As for the ships of other powers
                        Su-24 made blind destroyer Donald Cook not only in the Black Sea, but also in the Baltic Sea.
                        And twice this is no longer an accident.

                      35. 0
                        7 February 2019 04: 51
                        If you argue according to yours, it’s great stupidity to have the S-400 in the Kaliningrad region. The region is generally surrounded on all sides by NATO countries (I could be wrong)
                      36. +2
                        7 February 2019 13: 36
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        If you talk about your still big nonsense to have a C-400 in the Kaliningrad region.

                        Iskander complexes have already been placed there, so C-400 is unlikely.

                        Kaliningrad region - a pistol at the temple of Europe.
                        Therefore, a powerful defensive area was formed there: the Navy, the Air Force, the Air Defense Force, the NW storage ...

                        In addition to military facilities, they need protection:
                        - Oil port in Primorsk;
                        - Baltic oil pipeline;
                        Kaliningrad underground gas storage;
                        Terminal for receiving LNG;
                        In addition, the Nord Stream gas pipeline passes by.

                        There are not so many objects on the Kuriles, but the location of the islands is strategically important.
                        Therefore, an army is being formed in Kamchatka that will unite naval aviation and the forces of the air defense forces of the Pacific Fleet.
                        It will monitor the air situation in Kamchatka, Chukotka and in the Arctic.
                        So the Far East will cover the sea and air shield.
                        This is in response to your proposal to cover Japan with an umbrella.
                        And directly Kuril Islands are covered with Ball and Bastion complexes, as well as the Tor system.

                        Agree, for many reasons it is impossible to place Triumphs and Iskander everywhere.
                        Decisions are made in the Ministry of Defense.
                        You can go there for details and offer them your vision.
                        For the appeal of citizens https://letters.mil.ru/electronic_reception.htm
                        I wish you success.
                      37. +2
                        5 February 2019 23: 58
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        I forgot from the borders of Romania to ours no more than 245 km.

                        The distance between the border towns of Yasy (Romania) and Belgorod (RF) is more than 900 km
                        And to Rostov-on-Don 1100 km


                        I will not communicate with you anymore.
                        You may be a good person, but you do not know basic things and still argue when they are trying to help you understand the issue.
                        Be healthy.
                      38. +3
                        5 February 2019 11: 27
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        And to place for example ZRS-400 and cover Japan with an umbrella is nonsense

                        Yes, unwise. Also, how to go to the Ferrari on the taiga to hunt. It can and will succeed - but what will it cost?

                        I repeat: from Japan to Fr. Kunashir is at hand.
                        Therefore, the complex C-300 / 400 can be disabled almost a slingshot.
                        Any weapon that has a range of several tens of kilometers.
                        From the nearest Japanese island or from a ship from neutral waters.
                        We do not exclude the landing of saboteurs.
                        These are the resources that need to be used in order to guard the facility from the attacks from the air, from the water and from under the water around the clock?
                      39. -3
                        5 February 2019 20: 53
                        S-400 slingshot in your opinion and in Syria can be derived however, that such a slingshot is not observed.
                      40. +3
                        5 February 2019 11: 28
                        At one time I played in the Cossacks military strategy.
                        Maybe you played something like that.
                        Imagine a small island on the map,
                        where the player has placed an important object: a mine, a market, a temple.
                        And the enemy ships now and then swim to the island and constantly bombard the object from a safe distance.
                        In addition to protecting the object on the island - you need to have time to send guns to the east, cavalry to the west, give the peasants the command to sow bread, and so on.
                        I assure you, after several attacks, you will build an important facility somewhere on the mainland, away from the coast.

                      41. +2
                        5 February 2019 07: 32
                        Quote: Bongo
                        Think about how energy is supplied to defense facilities on Novaya Zemlya and the Kuril Islands? What is the difference?

                        Sergey, what to argue with a man who does not understand the subject. We have many places where power supply comes from diesel power stations or other mobile sources. The difference is only in the consumed capacity. Sea salt, temperature drops are equally valid in the south and in the north, the difference in the rate of exposure to contact connections depends only on the ambient temperature.
                      42. +3
                        5 February 2019 12: 12
                        Quote: Amurets
                        Sergey, what to argue with a man who does not understand the subject. We have many places where power supply comes from diesel power stations or other mobile sources. The difference is only in the consumed capacity. Sea salt, temperature drops are equally valid in the south and in the north, the difference in the rate of exposure to contact connections depends only on the ambient temperature.

                        Do not say, the difference is still there, even in low temperature conditions, equipment and weapons are better preserved than in an aggressive environment with saturated sea salt. In addition, on Novaya Zemlya, logistics is much easier than on Kunashir. There is a good port in the southern part of Novaya Zemlya, where coal is mined with local boiler houses. The meaning of placing air defense systems on Novaya Zemlya is to cover the European part of the country from the northwest.
                      43. +2
                        5 February 2019 13: 40
                        Quote: Bongo

                        Do not say, there is still a difference, even at low temperatures, equipment and weapons are better preserved than in an aggressive environment saturated with sea salt.

                        Sergey, here I will not argue strongly, the only thing that is not taken into account in the Arctic is snow dust, and it will probably be worse than ground dust. It penetrates the smallest crevices. In addition, the snow dust sets the insulation resistance, and the rest is clear to you. In terms of logistics, you are right, but there are places where you can't get there, just like here. The goals and objectives of the air defense in the north, in principle, like our 72nd air defense corps, is to cover our northern, north-eastern and eastern directions. Well, you understand that: Chukotka, Kamchatka, Magadan, Sakhalin. That the 10th Air Defense Army is Arkhangelsk, that the 11th Air Defense Army is Khabarovsk, this is the "Backyard of the Great Empire". And yet, for some reason, no one takes into account the close range of destruction, from which they become controllable and put on a combat platoon, that is, the fuses have been removed from radio fuses, self-destructors and other safety devices. The longer the missile is, the longer the missile is, the farther it will hit.
                      44. 0
                        5 February 2019 21: 02
                        And what is armed
                        228th separate anti-aircraft division. military unit 56677
                      45. +2
                        5 February 2019 22: 37
                        Quote: bmv04636
                        And what is armed
                        228th separate anti-aircraft division.

                        Lender guns and M-4 installations
  7. +3
    3 February 2019 20: 17
    Chinese designers did not “reinvent the wheel” and, based on the well-developed aerodynamic design of a plane with a triangular wing, created the J-8 interceptor. This aircraft looks very much like the J-7 (MiG-21F-13)

    The Chinese is more like a big Su-9.

    1. +6
      4 February 2019 03: 14
      Quote: Lozovik
      The Chinese is more like a big Su-9.

      The scheme is the same. In addition, the author says about it:
      In fact, the People's Republic of China repeated the evolutionary path from Su-9 to Su-15, which was done in the USSR 40 years ago. Like the Soviet fighter-interceptor C-9, Su-11 and Su-15, the entire line of Chinese J-8 was sharpened for high-speed interception of single targets flying at medium and high altitudes.