Why Tu-22М3 did not go to the second round or alternate aerodrome

188
There are reports from the Murmansk region that the condition of the Tu-22М3 missile carrier surviving at the time of the crash at the military airfield of Olenegorsk is satisfactory. This allows the victim to be transported to a Moscow military hospital. For this purpose, a special defense mission of the Ministry of Defense with a medical team arrives in Olenegorsk. A special board at the Olenya air base also arrived at the military department commission.

Why Tu-22М3 did not go to the second round or alternate aerodrome




Meanwhile, experts continue to discuss the cause of the crash of a long-range supersonic airplane aviation. Recall that the official version - the plane made a “hard landing” and collapsed after touching the runway, as it fell into a snow charge. We are talking about difficult weather conditions with heavy snowfall and sharp gusts of wind, the speed of which was up to 30 m / s. According to some reports, the "tower" advised the commander to leave for the alternate aerodrome, but in the end, nevertheless, a decision was made to approach exactly in Olenegorsk.

At the same time, flight instructions indicate that if during a landing approach a snow charge manifests itself, then you need to go to the second round. In that case, why didn't the missile carrier go to the second (subsequent) lap or alternate aerodrome?

In such a situation, an assumption is expressed: in fact, the pilots might well have tried to carry out a go-around, but the height was already too small, and the crew “lost the runway” when landing. In other words, the landing itself could have been carried out not even at the aerodrome's concrete ground, but “past the runway” (by the way, some media announced that one of the reasons for the destruction of the aircraft was the “humped” runway, but the exact data that 22М3 finally got into it under the conditions of a snow charge, no).

Meanwhile, meteorological reports on weather in the Olenegorsk region confirm the fact of snow charges, and also suggest that the bottom edge of the cloud layer descended during the landing of Tu-22М3 for landing at a height of less than 100 m. This is “critical” low clouds for to plant such a plane.

The commission, which arrived in Olenegorsk, establishes all the details of the disaster, studies the crew’s negotiations with the "tower" of the airfield.
  • Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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188 comments
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  1. -14
    23 January 2019 06: 49
    Now hang everything on the commander of the ship!
    1. +51
      23 January 2019 06: 53
      If the car gets into an accident, then the driver is usually to blame. Why should aviation be different?
      1. +7
        23 January 2019 07: 21
        Quote: Corn
        Why should aviation be different?

        Yeah. It’s hard to move away from the New Year holidays, relaxes. Already three cars have been lost, all of which are fatal.
        1. +5
          23 January 2019 09: 20
          Quote: Mar. Tira
          Already three cars have been lost, all with deaths.

          ==========
          Yes, yes the planes are - God bless them! Others will build .... But 6 (six!) dead pilots - no longer return !!! And this is less than a month! In conditions peacetime!! Something "is not right" with our aviation .... It seems like a significant part of the pilots and technicians in Syria passed the "battle in battle" ... But with the training of flight personnel, ground and emergency rescue services, "we need to think about something "!
          1. +14
            23 January 2019 09: 26
            Now hang everything on the commander of the ship!

            And judging by preliminary analysis - they’ll do it right. And there is nothing reprehensible here, to blame - it means to blame, hold the blow.
            The aircraft is extremely reliable.
            1. -1
              24 January 2019 12: 48
              And how old is this aircraft at the time of the accident ???
              1. +2
                24 January 2019 14: 16
                have fingers?
                2012 emergency repair, the board itself 85-86 years of construction. For a strategist, an acceptable period.
                1. 0
                  28 January 2019 11: 29
                  How do you know the year of construction?
                  Here you just do not need to be clever!
          2. -11
            23 January 2019 09: 34
            Quote: venik
            But 6 (six!) Dead pilots - no longer return !!!

            Well, actually it's military ... death for this profession is part of the service ...
            1. +5
              23 January 2019 11: 33
              Defending the Motherland, not like that.
          3. +1
            23 January 2019 11: 26
            In Syria, very rarely there are complex meteo. And here all 3 cars are in difficult weather and seems to me in violation of all the rules and instructions pranced.
          4. +10
            23 January 2019 12: 25
            Quote: venik
            Yes, yes the planes are - God bless them! Others will build ...

            They will not build. 22s have not been released for a long time.
            Quote: venik
            But 6 (six!) Dead pilots - no longer return !!!

            Right.
            Quote: venik
            Something "is not right" with our aviation ..

            The flight intensity has increased, and so planes are falling, fighting, etc. ... and this is not only with us.
            Quote: venik
            But with the training of flight personnel, ground and emergency rescue services, "you have to think about something!"

            Young animals are being prepared, hence such cases occur. Of course, there are many other factors that cause such disasters, but the problem is that it takes years and a lot of money to grow a good pilot. The loss of aircraft does not affect defense ability in such a way compared to the loss of pilots.
            In any case, we must wait for the results of the investigation. It is too early to speak about the reasons.
            1. 0
              24 January 2019 00: 39
              the quote is not mine, I suspect that the author is associated with aviation: "- From what I have read, I draw conclusions.
              1. Error in piloting technique.
              2. Unpreparedness for flying in these weather conditions.
              3. Error in the work of hydraulic fracturing.
              4. The cause of all the errors is the result of Serdyukovsky’s leadership of the troops. The collapse of the flight training school. Experienced pilots are no longer or few, there is no one to teach young. There is no systematic transfer of flight experience gained over decades. There is no generational connection.
              5. There have always been accidents and disasters, but their regularity now and the actual level of training of flight personnel is very different from the times of 20 years ago, not for the better. There is no planned rotation based on knowledge and skills, there is rotation based on family ties. "
        2. -1
          23 January 2019 10: 55
          for Corn and everyone else !!!!
          If the car gets into an accident, then the driver is usually to blame. Why should aviation be different?

          When conducting flights, there is a leadership group that includes, among others, the landing manager, flight manager, to whom the crew is subordinate ... And from above there is also a commander to whom everyone is subordinate, and he can intervene in the flight management, in this case, landing of this aircraft. ... Landing is allowed by the head of the landing .... Inaccuracies for dummies are not important, the main point .... And to blame everything on the pilot does not work ...
          And another pearl in the article:
          In other words, the landing itself could even be carried out not on the concrete block of the airfield, but "past the runway"

          It is necessary for the TU-22M3 to give birth to such a thing !!! This is not a landing - this is not even an extreme case ....
          The article is dumb and moronic. there are simply no other words ..... and has nothing to do with aviation ....
          1. +7
            23 January 2019 12: 19
            Quote: VO3A
            When conducting flights, there is a management group, which includes, among others, the landing manager, flight manager

            Only RPS is directly subordinate to RP soldier
            Quote: VO3A
            The landing is permitted by the landing manager.

            This is something .. "new" ..... all commands for EVERYTHING are given only by the RP, the task of the RSP is to suggest from the left-right, above-below ... removal .. ALL !!!
            After the request for landing, when passing the DPRM, with the obligatory report that the landing gear has been released and the report of the RP Assistant to the UPC that .. "the lane is free" .. only after that the RP gives permission to land - "I allow landing".
            Quote: VO3A
            .And from above there’s still a commander to whom everything is subordinate and he can intervene in the flight management,

            This is generally complete .. FIRST, because. the commander does not enter the hydraulic fracturing, and for him such a "climb" may end with a "lattice".
            The RP reports to the command post on the decision to leave for the reserve and also to the commander of the AP ... ie. "puts in the know" soldier
            Do you have anything to do with aviation at all ... except for "sofa + internet"? wassat
            1. +2
              23 January 2019 16: 43
              Inaccuracies for dummies are not important, the main point .... And to blame everything on the pilot does not work ...

              This is for "chauffeur-level pilots" who managed to put in a word ....
              The last time I went as a senior flight engineer in 1991 .... Stop running into trouble, I'm not in court ... Better remember how your Tu-22M3 behaves on landing, what landing speeds and mileage, and is there even a hint about landing this a dinosaur on a primer ... This antiques has an outdated design, uneconomical engines and weak LTH, there are simply no others ...
            2. -1
              27 January 2019 12: 19
              Random, read and watch ... And do not comment on me, cut my hair short ...
              https://news.rambler.ru/army/41618072-katastrofu-tu-22m3-sprovotsirovalo-vmeshatelstvo-izvne/
              https://vz.ru/news/2019/1/27/961278.html
              I had the same case in my regiment ..... And although everyone writes negotiations, the commander escaped punishment ....
          2. 0
            25 January 2019 16: 59
            and what’s special here, missed or demolished. We have two lanes nearby. And although ours can land on the ground, anyway it is cleaned before it, rammed.
      2. +3
        23 January 2019 07: 45
        Quote: Corn
        If the car gets into an accident, then the driver is usually to blame. Why should aviation be different?

        Not a good comparison. If for the most part there are two participants in an accident, then the blame is on one of the two already. This is an average, and so the circle of perpetrators may expand. And in the conditional flight of the aircraft involved dozens of people. If we compare it with an accident, then there are also two participants: CREW - HSE.
        1. +15
          23 January 2019 09: 32
          Quote: Hagalaz
          If we compare it with an accident, then there are also two participants: CREW - HSE.

          =========
          This is, as it were, not entirely true. More precisely, not at all true! At least in this case. The situation - this is: ALL responsibility for the life of the crew and the car - lies entirely with Crew commander! If in difficult weather conditions the pilot received recommendation of the flight director to leave for an alternate airfield, but still decided to "land" - then full responsibility for the consequences lies EXCLUSIVELY on crew commander!!! If he received a recommendation to "sit down" and as a result of this an accident or disaster occurred, then he divides responsibility with flight manager !!! That's the fate of the crew commander !!!
          1. +2
            23 January 2019 09: 48
            And I did not question the fact of the responsibility of the captain of the vessel either in general or in particular. I just think that a concrete comparison is not successful (as I wrote).
            1. +3
              23 January 2019 10: 51
              The Air Force does not have a ship captain or aircraft. There is a ship commander (QC)
              1. +1
                23 January 2019 11: 50
                Yes, I knew. Sorry, a slip of the tongue. Well this practice is needed, so that I can speak correctly on the machine.
              2. 0
                23 January 2019 15: 51
                By the way, please remind me what parameters an airplane should have so that it can be called a ship? Once I received information, but did not remember. Like that, for example, the su-27 is not yet, but the instant-31 is already a ship.
          2. +9
            23 January 2019 10: 49
            I agree. In this particular case, I went to the second circle, and if anything, I took the car to the spare. There were some squabbles behind the back from the "smart" pilots, but this is so ... There are enough fools in our Air Force.
      3. +13
        23 January 2019 07: 48
        the driver is usually to blame.


        And also the one who cooked it once. Who gave the ticket, who stacked the cargo. From zavgara too - who repaired the car. From his wife, she swam in front of the road. From the doctor what the examination did ...

        The system is this. They decided to increase the intensity of flights to the Soviet one, and the entire system from a soldier in the guardhouse to the Republic of Poland, and in general all aviation is already Russian. That got it.
        1. +1
          23 January 2019 09: 26
          Quote: dauria
          The system is this. They decided to increase the intensity of flights to the Soviet one, and the entire system from a soldier in the guardhouse to the Republic of Poland, and in general all aviation is already Russian. That got it.

          Do you have data on such incidents in the USSR? I do not believe.
          1. +1
            23 January 2019 10: 51
            Exactly!
          2. +3
            23 January 2019 10: 58
            Quote: 1810BM86
            Do you have data on such incidents in the USSR? I do not believe

            Every quarter there was a collection of accidents and incidents ... And it wasn’t quite thin from 60 to 1 with a line of pages, so on average 400 pages a year turned out ... :(
            1. +3
              23 January 2019 11: 22
              So what is it about. To say that it was better then than now is somehow similar to typical statements of an old man, they say it used to be, but not now.
              1. +4
                23 January 2019 11: 26
                This is aviation, alas, always has been and always will be everywhere. The question is only about lowering accidents, eradication can not be dreamed of, it’s utopia ... :(
                1. +1
                  23 January 2019 11: 46
                  If only it were in aviation. This is generally characteristic of any human activity.
      4. DPN
        +1
        23 January 2019 10: 40
        Not every driver is able to pay for the damage to another, but the PILOT can probably sit in jail for the rest of his life or forget what a plane is, and this is his LIFE's dream.
      5. -2
        23 January 2019 11: 31
        But nothing that the driver of another car, or road workers who left an unsecured hatch, or a faulty traffic light at a blind intersection. How is everything clean and logical? You look like a pedestrian ... Because of pedestrians, too, there are accidents by the way, and it’s useful to crush some ...
      6. 0
        24 January 2019 14: 24
        for the most part YES, and there already .... gogo hook you will find !!! stsuka epaulettes are so important !!
    2. -2
      23 January 2019 07: 31
      Quote: Navigator 1
      Now hang everything on the commander of the ship!

      Yeah, the commander now is not envied. Now everyone will turn their backs on him, and the hydraulic fracturing and all the command and instructors. And this is not his fault, it is the fault of those who did not teach him at the time and correctly make the decision to leave for the 2nd circle and the reserve, apparently in his circles it is considered cool to sit below the minimum, that's how they brought up and taught. Yesterday I read here some comments and hair on end, one on PNP went to the end, the other obliged the post to sit below the minimum, and such people learned this generation.
      1. +14
        23 January 2019 07: 55
        And the phrase "First after God" you have not heard. And the question is not that you have not taught. You need to learn and be able to yourself. To be able to make decisions in emergency situations in a split second. This is aviation. Two examples. Our political officer "swelled" on takeoff, but decided to take off. He landed. The plane is intact, with minor exceptions. Another flyer, when landing in the SMU, flopped down in the middle of the runway, did not release the braking parachute, and decided to turn to the extreme taxiing at a speed of 90 km (although he could roll out of the runway onto the safety lane). The racks folded up. As a result, the plane was written off, as was the flyer.
        1. +1
          23 January 2019 08: 29
          I don’t know the position of this particular PIC, but tell me, who decides to start flights on pre-flight training and whose report does it begin with? And then we'll talk about the first after God.
          1. +1
            23 January 2019 11: 08
            Quote: Dr Dron
            I don’t know the position of this particular PIC, but tell me, who decides to start flights on pre-flight training and whose report does it begin with?

            The commander begins, the meteorologist acts first, then the navigator and the commander sums up (if there are changes in the planned or changes in shifts).
            If you go to the minimum. then the table is always ready for night and day, so what's the problem?
          2. +2
            23 January 2019 22: 42
            Well, do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs. We are not talking about the earth, but about the situation in the air. To hell with demagoguery. An airplane in flight - and the commander makes a decision - and no one else. Since only he sees the whole situation (and not the flight manager, etc.) and can evaluate it (and if not, then hardly anyone will appreciate it at that moment).
            1. 0
              24 January 2019 07: 41
              What the hell first after god! If he couldn’t even make an independent decision about leaving for the 2nd round! He RP will say 01 said he would sit down and climb to kill. If I would have sat down, then at home under a cucumber, as some random people in aviation would have beaten their heels in the chest and told how cool he was and rotated all your sciences and minima on one axis.
              1. -1
                24 January 2019 09: 03
                Quote: Dr Dron
                how some random people in aviation would hit their heels in the chest and tell how cool he was and rotate all your sciences and minima on one axis.

                "Spoil" the atmosphere ... slowly wassat
                So you sir except that full fool , so also the NULL LIAR ???? wassat
                Or .. "super couch troll"? wassat
        2. 0
          23 January 2019 12: 01
          Quote: basmach
          And the phrase "First after God" you have not heard. And the question is not that you have not taught.

          It's nice when professionals comment on the situevina! I would also like to hear "Lieutenant Colonel of the Air Force SSSRF". drinks
      2. -1
        23 January 2019 10: 08
        They don’t like the truth here, they will wipe you.
        1. -2
          23 January 2019 12: 19
          Quote: Navigator 1
          They don’t like the truth here, they will wipe you.

          And you don’t get tired of shitting, Mr. Troll ?!
      3. +8
        23 January 2019 11: 04
        Quote: Dr Dron
        And this is not his fault, this is the fault of those who did not teach him during and correctly make the decision to leave for the 2nd round and for the reserve

        Write nonsense (that's from which really stand up .. "drag on end") .... Maybe we'll start to remember the parents as well .. they say they are to blame for the upbringing, then, secondary school, etc. ????
        In Aviation there are documents that REGULATE AIRCRAFT ... and so they are written in "blood" ... there is also the Airplane Flight Manual, which is written "in the blood of testers."
        It is one thing to have a catastrophe or accident under the CIT, and quite another thing on ... the "human factor".
        "Co-workers" write that k.k. more than 2 flight hours on this type ... it is he who must fly with his eyes closed and .. backwards in accordance with the level of his training ..
        Yesterday I wrote ... I repeat:
        According to the Airplane Flight Manual, a go-around with flaps of 40 degrees, 2 engines, G settlement max 88 tons is performed with Nbez, min> = 50 meters, at the operating mode of MBFR engines.
        The aircraft drawdown is 30 meters
        If with flaps at 23 degrees (the rocket hangs), then with H without min> = 100, the operating mode of the MFR engines.
        Drawdown 50 meters.
        If the flaps are 40 g and there is an IOD or in fact, then a go-around with H min without> = 150 meters, MFR engines.
        Drawdown 80 meters.
        If with flaps at 23 degrees (the rocket hangs) and in fact a failure, then go-around only in exceptional cases with G. at max <88 t. With H without min not <100 meters, operating mode of MFR engines, in a set cross only upon reaching V> = 400 km / h.
        Plane drawdown 30 meters.
        And in fact .. I can still tell you a "case" .. only without the names ... 185 guards tbap, night PMU, we fly in the airfield area ... the deputy regiment of the p / p-c ... M. .. on the 4th turn, the RP reports - "on the 4th, with landing, the remainder of the 8th" ... "it was deposited that .." with the passage "!
        The DPRM is passing ... M asks for "Landing", the RP gives permission .... go further .... when the BPRM passes, the p.k. begins to worry and automatically withdraws the MBFR RUD, "tries to" stop "the decline and ... take away the landing gear and ..... here on the runway the plane "falls out" with an angle ... "mother of the road" and swaying from plane to plane "..." arises over the runway ... seconds, probably in the 2nd .. .the afterburner flame of one engine bursts out. then another (the flame hits the concrete and goes upwards at an angle) and somewhere at the level of the RSP "houses" .. the plane began to "move away" from the ground ...
        Those. the plane itself .. very volatile.
        And with "fool" you can ... "break one object" ... soldier
        1. +1
          23 January 2019 12: 22
          Quote: Random
          Write STUPID (that's what really stand up .. "drag on end")

          Thanks to all the pros for comments, please be more active, friends, when it comes to your profession! good drinks
        2. -1
          23 January 2019 12: 50
          Random, comment on the heresy that you write here does not make sense. Because you don’t have basic aviation concepts, at least such as VLOOKUP and the final stage of the approach. Your stories, about how you flew somewhere and were not killed by a miracle, are suitable only for ignorant drinking companions.
          1. 0
            23 January 2019 13: 00
            Quote: Dr Dron
            it makes no sense to comment on the heresy you write here

            Cheap trolling of a person who has nothing to say in fact .. since he knows nothing soldier
            And the question is ... what is .. "VLOOKUP" if the height of decision-making, then this is dark in the VTA and for the "citizens" ... we have it the height of the DPRM span and obtaining a landing permit ... a second circle is possible from any height and on any part of the flight .. depending on the configuration and landing weight.
            In short ... "come on ... goodbye" wassat
            1. +1
              23 January 2019 13: 57
              U ... how everything is running, you have even less knowledge than I thought. And you are aware that the height of the flight DPRM at least depends on the angle of inclination of the glide path and the temperature of the outside air. What you once had, some kind of uncle Vasya said that over the distant either by gas or landing, and you still believe in it sacredly - you are definitely a character - handle gas pedal pay lol
              On this our discussion, please consider it finished, I have the honor hi
              1. +2
                23 January 2019 15: 52
                Quote: Dr Dron
                U ... how everything is running, you have even less knowledge than I thought

                Yes .... no words ... only ... "letters".
                GLANDS tilt angle STANDARD in the USSR (CIS) and the Russian Federation for the military 2g 40 min -3 gr ... POINT !!!
                On "difficult terrain" angles can vary from 3g-to 3,5g ....
                And the standard is a flat area where the DPRM is 200-220 meters, and the BPRM is 50-60 meters and the height of the circle is either 500 meters or 600 meters ... respectively, the entrance to the glide path is either 10 km or 12 km.
                "Range ... to the pops ... wassat "have you heard? ... DPRM is located 4,0 km from the runway end, BPRM is 1,0 km .... can you divide by 2 on a piece of paper ???? soldier
                Quote: Dr Dron
                And you are aware that the height of the flight DPRM at least depends on the angle of inclination of the glide path and the temperature of the outside air.

                Only when very different from STANDARD wassat (for barometric altimeters) and even for different landing systems.
                Every 3-gram increase) reduce changes in altitude readings by only 1% (!!!!) wassat (you know the errors of the TNV measurement sensors) ???? wassat
                It is counted in the mind instantly ... "but it is only in the ... AVIATION mind."
                So .. "let's .... goodbye" ....... "ice" wassat
      4. +2
        23 January 2019 11: 51
        Quote: Dr Dron
        Now everyone will turn their backs on him, and the hydraulic fracturing and all the command and instructors. And it’s not his fault, it’s the fault of those who did not teach him at the time and correctly make the decision to leave for the 2 circle and the spare,
        - I’m embarrassed to remind you, if he is so full NOT GUILTY-And all around are guilty: did not teach, did not prompt, did not direct - what did he receive stars / increased length of service / increased monetary allowance? is he MUST how to make a competent and correct decision ....
        And then immediately the slogans climbed
        Quote: Navigator 1
        Now hang everything on the commander of the ship!
        - as if he had nothing to do with it, so he came out to stand on the side .....

        Z.Y. and the fact that he died - doesn’t remove his part of guilt from him
    3. Maz
      -1
      23 January 2019 10: 26
      Strange, the simplest version that there is not enough fuel before the alternate aerodrome has not been touched. And if there were problems on board, it could have iced up, the crew is a pity, and we don’t have so many planes. There are two su-34s lost for no reason. Unlucky January. And the gas exploded twice, and Damascus fired on peaceful neighbors. Straight strip went. He can put a candle for the health of the Motherland, but pray soundly. And I don’t know what to say.
      1. +3
        23 January 2019 11: 12
        Quote: Maz
        Strange, the simplest version that there is not enough fuel before the alternate aerodrome has not been touched.

        When flying according to the plan, UBP ISHR is calculated taking into account all the necessary "reserves" soldier
        He "came" home "on his 2 engines and began to build a standard approach scheme ..... on the Tu-22M emergency fuel is practically not drained for landing .. so ...." where could it go "? request
        Quote: Maz
        And if there were problems on board, something could have iced up

        To do this, there are anti-icing systems and the methodology for their use ..... the only thing that freezes the landing gear with heavy icing is all. soldier (on aerodynamics this is practically not reflected, because even the weight increases almost by the size of the meager) soldier
    4. +2
      23 January 2019 10: 48
      Quote: Navigator 1
      Now hang everything on the commander of the ship!

      Unfortunately, if everything turns out as they say in the article ...... then .. it is he who is the main one ......
    5. +1
      23 January 2019 11: 02
      Because he is the main on board, he is responsible for the plane, for the life and health of the crew members, so the demand will be from him!
    6. 0
      23 January 2019 11: 32
      And in this country it is convenient to write off those who have not returned. No one can prove ... the grouse also write off garbage ...
    7. 0
      23 January 2019 12: 47
      Do not substitute a commission.
      But the initial analysis suggests, among other things, a crew error. The NPP says so, "when passing the BPRM, there is no visual contact with the runway, go-around."
      ................................
      By the way - the word "hang" is written with "o".
      1. +2
        23 January 2019 16: 42
        NPP-88 from the USSR? UMP for MiG-29UB 800x60. And b / drive at different distances happens.
    8. +1
      24 January 2019 07: 13
      In aviation (no matter civil or military), the decision to land is made by the aircraft commander, and the RP instructions are advisory, not directive. And according to statistics, 70% of aviation incidents are caused by the "human" factor. It has been said and negotiated about it 100500 times and still somebody gives a "sensation".
  2. -12
    23 January 2019 06: 57
    Not a word about measures to prevent such disasters in the future. Departure to an alternate aerodrome is not an option, no grants, that weather conditions will be even worse there.
    1. +8
      23 January 2019 08: 41
      What measures do you propose to disperse the blizzard? Or fly only in the summer? You can’t do anything with nature, which is why they are sent to reserve aeror
      1. -9
        23 January 2019 09: 13
        They write about poor visibility, so what prevents the lidar from being installed?
        If gusts of wind interfere, so why not make at least some kind of wind protection from the screens at least at the main airfields?
        And surely there are many more rational solutions to reduce accident rates. Minusators mourning the dead would be better thought of the living as well.
        And it turns out as in that song: "I don't keep what I have, but when I lose I cry."
        1. +3
          23 January 2019 09: 48
          Quote: Corn
          If gusts of wind interfere, so why not make at least some kind of wind protection from the screens at least at the main airfields?

          What screens?
          1. 0
            23 January 2019 10: 04
            And in our city the airport is surrounded on all sides by hills with pine plantings. For some reason, it’s the pine forest that perfectly extinguishes the wind, it’s checked!
        2. +8
          23 January 2019 10: 25
          Quote: Corn
          If wind gusts interfere, so why not make at least some kind of wind protection

          Cover the runway with a roof or something?
        3. +3
          23 January 2019 10: 39
          Here it is necessary not to set the lidar, although it would not hurt, but to check the work of the weather service!
          Was there meteorolocation, was there a weather shift on duty, radar weather reconnaissance?
          Was the storm warning delivered in due time to the change in the hydraulic fracturing and hydraulic fracturing?
          Snow charge, excuse me, SNL (weather hazardous for aviation)!
          The weather forecaster on duty was obliged to warn in advance that the light was suitable, but it did not appear out of nowhere during landing on the landing course!
          Plus another question, is the pressure at the runway level correctly transferred to the board?
          So, in my opinion, it’s not only RP-FAC, it’s necessary to check the operation of the weather service and draw conclusions!
          1. +5
            23 January 2019 11: 13
            Quote: fighter angel
            you need to check the work of the weather service and draw conclusions!

            The commission will check all this. But all the same, it’s too early to draw definite conclusions, practically nothing is known, except for the result of this departure and media speculation. We don’t really know, everything will go by telegrams on the videoconferencing system and will go into the collection ... It will be necessary to look at other forums, maybe someone was closer to the place ...
            PS: About the airdrome pressure, it’s true ... there really isn’t one watching this, but one is sitting down, it could have been like that in a difficult situation, although there isn’t any contact before leveling the ground, what landing can there be?
          2. 0
            23 January 2019 11: 43
            And what is wrong with the network service? The weather that day was not perfect, but quite ordinary
            1. +3
              23 January 2019 12: 49
              What aerodrome do you have weather data for? What is the specific observation point?
              The weather may be normal, but the illumination came from somewhere on the landing course at the time of sunset ...
              And to monitor dangerous weather phenomena and warn the air traffic authorities about them (in this case, the flight management group) - there is a direct duty of the weather service!
              They are responsible for this!
              Until the termination of flights, a "storm warning" is issued on a letterhead with a red stripe, and handed to everyone against signature.
              Here's to you - "what's wrong with the meteorological service !!!"
              1. -2
                23 January 2019 17: 01
                Why are you writing down the duties of the dezh. synoptics? Have you been to those parts? The speech is from the distance in the area of ​​the BPRM, and the command of the RP is "allowed to land". RSP, this is not Tesla, but on the RSP indicator the scale of division by range is 1 km. The plane did not decompose to the end of the runway, or with the flight - what pressure, this is not in the Spitak area, confuse 7 with 6. Who is on the couch, or does not have access (via gypsy mail) to information about the commission's conclusion, everyone will not know exactly, what happened in detail, as with the IL-18 (when they flew underground).
                1. +1
                  24 January 2019 10: 25
                  Lucy,
                  And why are you all this set of words?
                  Where has anyone been and when - in everyone's personal affairs it is written!
                  Therefore, let's not be "measured" here.
                  I at least logically "paint" everything. And you, dear, excuse me, a set of words: BPRM, RP, RSPshnik, scale, sofa, gypsy mail, IL-18 flying underground!
                  Did you want to say something?
                  Express your thoughts more specifically.
                  1. 0
                    24 January 2019 12: 14
                    I read the SHT on this disaster, and so there: 22.01.2019/2/6 in the afternoon in the PMU, the crew of the commander of the detachment of a military pilot of the 500nd class of major ... at the beginning of the runway. (They say there was an overload of XNUMX) "Align" did not react to the commands of the PRP, the plane began to collapse from the impact on the runway, with the separation of the cockpit from the fuselage. The PRP gave the command "Jump" twice, the RP gave the command "Eject" twice. The crew did not react to the commands. The plane stopped XNUMX meters from the start of the runway and ignited. So no snow charge. Maybe there is something in the control system?
                    1. 0
                      24 January 2019 15: 32
                      Maybe. If so, then pressed well. http://vfl.ru/fotos/61e58d2d25086053.html
                    2. 0
                      25 January 2019 11: 35
                      FORS, you have a mistake.
                      This telegram, or rather her photo, was already posted in the Communist Party.
                      So there in black and white - DSMU !!! In the afternoon, Difficult weather conditions.
                      1. 0
                        25 January 2019 14: 21
                        Well, maybe they know better in the CP than in the YES command whose I read. And there it is very black, very white: at the Deer airport, in the afternoon at PMU.
                      2. 0
                        25 January 2019 16: 44
                        Looked at what you wrote. Yes, in this piece SMU day, but a piece from the central administrative department, i.e. infantry.
                  2. -1
                    24 January 2019 15: 31
                    What he wrote, he wrote. Well, if Mr. Dude does not know what BPRM, PRMG is ......... then carry on for RP, OD, .... pieces of paper with a red stripe. Although you are not a weather forecaster, you just didn’t understand about the Il-18 (crew) flying underground, although they tried the RP, and did the extreme navigational service. You wore a personal file in the naval dugout? They don’t write in their personal files whether they visited or did not visit Vysokoye, since in a couple of days you can manage to visit Ferghana, Kilp-Yavr, and Sital Tea.
                    1. -1
                      24 January 2019 23: 01
                      Lyusya, I don’t understand you ... Write what is written, just not to me, and God is with you, dear.
                      1. -1
                        25 January 2019 00: 22
                        Why so bad. Here about the simple? Not more than the curves of N.E. Zhukovsky and the Laval nozzle!

                        Quote: fighter angel
                        Plus another question, is the pressure at the runway level correctly transferred to the board?


                        But not right, how is it? Are you a decker? Do you think RP gave a pressure of 1013 instead of 760?
                      2. 0
                        25 January 2019 11: 42
                        Lyusya, do you have anyone to sit on your ears?
                        And there is no one to tell about your "outstanding services" and great flights?
                        What, no one at the sight of your merits falls into awe?
                        Excuse me, you honored navigator of the USSR or Russia?
                        Once again, for you, especially gifted: I do not need to try to prove what you really cannot even formulate !!!
                        Stand back, from sin ...
                      3. -1
                        25 January 2019 12: 24
                        Chatterbox fighter, what merit? Why navigator, why the USSR, why the honored? What a sin, you are not familiar with the rules of the garbage dump?
                      4. -1
                        25 January 2019 12: 33
                        Iceman. You go here and lay out your conclusions. I think there they will quickly explain to you how the angle of attack differs from the angle of the barn.
                        https://www.forumavia.ru/t/200651/6/
                      5. +1
                        25 January 2019 14: 42
                        Lucy,
                        Do not send, and you will not be sent.
                        I know about the angle of attack no less than yours. And also about BPRM, DPRM and PRMG, and Tesla and RSP I know no less than yours, I studied / knew at one time both the NPP and the NAMS and KBP, and many, many more ... I knew and know enough airfields.
                        But you’re used to thinking that you’re the most intelligent, aren’t you?
                        But your ingenious sayings that are written above, alas, to me personally, alas!
                        But because you are on your own, on the bird used to write / talk.
                        These are the costs of your imaginary genius.
                        Why respect your opponent? It is possible without really explaining anything, just throw something on the air, and then blame that, they say, "you all came here for a walk, damn it, and I'm the only one - a super specialist."
                        Where are we just mere mortals to you, the navigator-lights ??
          3. 0
            23 January 2019 12: 30
            Quote: fighter angel
            Plus another question, is the pressure at the runway level correctly transferred to the board?

            This has not happened in the history of aviation soldier ... plus, at the transition level, the crew verifies the air traffic according to the P of the aerodrome. plus there is RV of low altitudes + if P calculated with an error is set, then when descending on the glide path, it will immediately "come out" that you are going higher or lower, and even the RBZ can "see" that you are not walking at the height of the circle, but higher or lower.
            So such an option as you voiced .. excluded a priori soldier
            1. +1
              23 January 2019 14: 32
              Quote: Random
              This has not happened in the history of aviation

              Offhand two catastrophes from the history of aviation immediately come to mind, IL-2 in Magdagachi and IL-12 in Leninakan.
              But in this case it is unlikely.
              1. -1
                23 January 2019 16: 14
                Quote: Dr Dron
                IL-76 in Leninakan.

                Example as always ... "in no place ...." wassat
                Right away they "showed" themselves in all their .. "beauty-competence".

                On October 20, 1989, near Leninakan, the IL-76TD crashed in the Ulyanovsk Center for the CMEA (Aeroflot), which killed 15 people.

                During the passage (at a decrease) of the altitude of 3300 meters, the crew contacted the circle dispatcher and reported that the approach approach according to the director mode was chosen and that the airfield pressure was 637 mm RT. Art.
                In response, the circle manager said that the level of the transition was 3000 meters and specified the pressure of the airfield - 636 mm RT. Art. (Shura — three — Shura).
                Then he allowed to descend to the third turn to an altitude of 1100 meters according to the established scheme when approaching at the 19 ° course.
                The crew confirmed receipt of information and permission for further entry.

                Descending to a height of 3000 meters, the crew mistakenly set the airdrome pressure to not 636, but 736 mm Hg. century, that is, 100 higher, because of which the altimeters began to overestimate the flight altitude by 1100 meters.
                Further, the aircraft, flying at a 172 ° course with spoilers released, began to decline at a vertical speed of 10 m / s. At 01:29:51, when the Il-76 was at an actual altitude of 270 meters (the altimeters showed 1370 meters) and 18 kilometers from the airport, an audible alarm signaling a dangerous proximity to the ground (SSOS) was triggered. At 01:29:54 the dispatcher contacted the crew and instructed to decrease to a height of 800 meters by the fourth turn. Pilots confirmed receipt of the team and began to carry it out, despite the working SSOS.
                At 01:30:04, the flight engineer saw that the pressure on the altimeters was set with an error and shouted: We have a pressure of 736, 736 pressure! However, the crew did not take emergency action, and after 4 seconds the SSAS stopped working, while the vertical speed decreased to 3 m / s. Suddenly, the pilots saw right in front of the mountain and pulled the helms toward themselves all the way, but the short distance did not make it possible to avoid a collision. At 01:30:14, the IL-76 in flight configuration at a speed of 440 km / h crashed into a mountain, completely collapsed and burned down. All 15 people on board died].
                Therefore, for the third time I ask ... "tie up" with aviation topics and ... "let's ... goodbye" wassat
                1. 0
                  23 January 2019 21: 35
                  Example as always ... "in no place ...."

                  I don’t know what place you have examples there, but in 1988 there was another disaster in Leninakan. You can light it here too.
                  1. -1
                    24 January 2019 00: 32
                    Quote: Dr Dron
                    but in 1988 there was another disaster in Leninakan. You can light it here too.

                    There was and I can light it up ... to show everything to yours .... fool
                    The beginning of the plot ... so to speak ... to "refresh your .... memory" wassat
                    Quote: fighter angel
                    Plus another question, is the pressure at the runway level correctly transferred to the board?

                    My answer :
                    This has never happened in the history of aviation ... plus, at the echelon of the transition, the crew makes a reconciliation of the air force along the P airfield. plus there is RV of low altitudes + if P calculated with an error is set, then when descending on the glide path, it will immediately "come out" that you are going higher or lower, and even the RBZ can "see" that you are not walking at the height of the circle, but higher or lower.
                    And then you "got in" with your ..... "next" pearls "out of place .... wassat

                    Dr Dron (Dr Dron) Yesterday, 14:32 p.m.
                    Quote: Random

                    This has not happened in the history of aviation

                    Offhand two catastrophes from the history of aviation immediately come to mind, IL-2 in Magdagachi and IL-12 in Leninakan.

                    I have proved to you on two examples that you refer to that the cause in Leninakan and Magdagach is the CREW ERRORS, and not the METEOROLOGIST ERROR that transmitted the erroneous pressure of the airfield on board.
                    In the third case, to which you are referring, exactly the same error ... The CREW set the P of the aerodrome at UVID by 100 mm Hg more than the "KRUG" transmitted.
                    This is about people like you, late V. Vysotsky composed a song - "On the transmigration of souls" wassat
                    "But if you are dumb as a tree you will be born a baobab
                    And you will be a baobab for a thousand years until you die "
                    wassat
                    1. 0
                      24 January 2019 07: 34
                      You don’t jump out of your pants and don’t change your shoes, both of the disasters that I cited plus the one that you accidentally cited are directly related, in all these cases the reason is the wrong pressure setting on the altimeters. And no RSP, RBZ and your other nonsense did not save the crew from the disaster. So step march to the mirror, to the song of Vysotsky!
                      1. -1
                        24 January 2019 08: 57
                        Quote: Dr Dron
                        in all these cases, the reason is the wrong pressure setting on altimeters

                        Oh well ... finally HAS ?????
                        Do not know how .. CLEAR OUT ????
                        It won’t work out ... don’t try ..... ALL RUNS ... WRITTEN wassat
                        1 Quote: fighter angel
                        Plus another question- Was the pressure at runway level on board correctly transferred?
                        2.Quote: Random
                        This has not happened in the history of aviation

                        3.Dr Dron (Dr Dron) Yesterday, 14:32
                        Offhand two disasters from the history of aviation immediately come to mind, IL-12 in Magdagachi and IL-76 in Leninakan.
                        4. Dr Dron (Dr Dron) Yesterday, 21:35
                        I don’t know what place you have examples there, but in 1988 there was another disaster in Leninakan.

                        So no matter how hard you try .. but you can't get out and .. "you can't jump off" .... wassat
                      2. +1
                        24 January 2019 12: 23
                        I read the SHT on this disaster, and so there: 22.01.2019/22/3 in the afternoon in the PMU, the crew of the Tu-2m6 of the commander of the detachment of the military pilot of the 500nd class major ..... during the landing approach, when approaching the runway, made a sharp decline, as a result of which there was with increased overload at the beginning of the runway. (they say there was an overload of XNUMX) "Align" did not react to the commands of the PRP, the plane began to collapse from the impact on the runway, with the separation of the cockpit from the fuselage. The PRP gave the command "Jump" twice, the RP gave the command "Eject" twice. The crew did not react to the commands. The plane stopped XNUMX meters from the start of the runway and caught fire. So no snow charge. Denial of control?
                      3. +1
                        24 January 2019 12: 39
                        Quote: FORS
                        Sht on this disaster, and so there: 22.01.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX afternoon in PMU

                        Michael is one of the first comments on this disaster:

                        Random (Sergey) 8 January 22, 2019 18:35
                        The missile Tu-22M3 crashed near Murmansk

                        Quote: NEXUS
                        I do not think this is a pilot error.

                        Andrey, and I am inclined towards this .... hit the charge, got confused ... stopped lowering ... the charge passed ... they saw that "a 5-storey building had fallen into the runway ... and began to "annoy" ... forgetting that if I removed it on MG and there was no speed, then the "drawdown" was "..... 80 meters ... well, and" laid out the plane ", with all the consequences ... ..that's something like this ... if ... "quickly state"
                      4. +2
                        24 January 2019 13: 06
                        Quote: FORS
                        Denial of management?

                        Here is my Komen yesterday morning:

                        And that, in principle, this could have been done by the "Assistant" at the UPC ...... to report that there is no visibility and he does not even see the searchlights (if they set them at the "minimum weather") or that he does not see the end of the runway with shields or even against the house of boards with markings of 50 meters.
                        After all, if the visibility became zero, then his "commands" such as "support", "high-low". "On the revolutions", "left-right" .... he could not give in any way ... and it would be too late ...
                        If it is true that they "snapped" the strip "stern" and even sideways .... one conclusion .... loss of speed with access to the second mode (the beginning of the stall) and therefore the "flop" with overload MUCH more than the maximum permissible values operational they were provided.
                        Therefore, in this case, how not to "lift" the angle of attack ... nothing will help ... The plane will be "laid out" on the strip ...
                        Therefore, I am inclined more to the version of the error in the piloting technique.
                        Although history knows "examples" ... of "falls" from the height of the alignment, read on the tape, I wrote about gu.p / p-ke Podchinenov B.G.
                        If there was a failure of any channel or subchannel of the ABSU, then ... even on the glide path it would be visible .. "that they come like a bull .....".
                        If the power system fails, then the APU has already been launched abeam and switch to power supply from it .. "second" of all "business."
                        If the failure of the power system and switched to the batteries, then ... there is time until the voltage of the entire network drops to <19 volts (after that the ABSU "flies" itself ... as it wants).
                        So I am more inclined to error in piloting technique.
                        But in any case, we must wait for the conclusion of the commission ....
                        Overload 6 is of course a lot ...
                        Here are the values ​​for different wing sweeps.
                        20 30 65
                        nue (in normal use) 1.6 2.0 2.0
                        numax (strength) 1.8 2.3 2.5
                        Well .. clearly .... so to speak:
              2. -1
                23 January 2019 16: 25
                Quote: Dr Dron
                IL-12 in Magdagachi


                And this example in general ... there are no words ... do you even distinguish between errors in transmitting pressure readings from the ground to the crew and violation by the crew of the approach methodology and scheme ?? (instead of 50 meters, the BPRMs passed at an altitude of 100 meters and the vertical rate of decline for them was 10-12 m / s belay
                They were already a priori .. "sentenced".
                Quote: Dr Dron
                Offhand

                And this in general ..... "touched" to death ..... what year of birth are you ... "sir" ... if "offhand remember" this disaster belay
                So I was only 5 years old, but even then I could tell how the MiG-15 differs from the MiG-17, since I climbed them lengthwise and across wassat
                And you sir, in addition to all your non-knowledge, you are .... (this is how to dignify you, so as not to .. "run into a moderator" wassat
                1. +1
                  23 January 2019 19: 22
                  Greetings to sensei, take care of your dear friend, less nerves, I want to read you more often here !!!!!
                  1. -1
                    23 January 2019 19: 28
                    Quote: Rushnairfors
                    Greetings Sensei

                    Hi fellow winged formation! drinks
                    What is "new" people say (within the limits of what is permitted, of course) ... about the "intervention" of the "top" read ... ... but climb with instructions to the RP ??? belay
                    I hope the "records" have been saved and ... they will find this .. "indicating" and give them what they deserve ... but the men already ... cannot be returned ....... no words ... soldier
                    1. +1
                      23 January 2019 19: 35
                      Below you answered about the authorities
                  2. 0
                    16 December 2020 10: 23
                    Aviation from Shaikovka.
                2. 0
                  23 January 2019 21: 41
                  Quote: Random
                  What year are you born ... "sir" ...

                  Yes, where does my year of birth, my age allows me to analyze information that happened earlier, are you talking about smart people who have learned from other people's mistakes? Although yes, to whom I say this, you really random in aviation.
        4. +7
          23 January 2019 11: 03
          Quote: Corn
          They write about poor visibility, so what prevents the lidar from being installed?
          If gusts of wind interfere, so why not make at least some kind of wind protection from the screens at least at the main airfields?

          Tin ... belay Fencing airfields with a wall of 100 meters in height (but what about the fact that at different heights the speed and direction of the wind are different?). Allegrova put "the clouds to disperse with his hands ..." And in general - why fence a garden - take, and even prohibit flights, completely ...
          Do you turn on your brain when you write such "sentences"?
          1. -1
            23 January 2019 11: 50
            So you have nothing against lidar? Already for one it would be worth thanks, and not look for something to dig into. How many more planes should fall so that people begin to look for a solution to the problem?
            If the enemy attacks, and the weather is not perfect, then what to expect on the ground by the sea for weather?
          2. +1
            23 January 2019 12: 33
            Airfields wall to wall height 100 meters


            Ran to patent the idea ...

            to take, and to forbid flights, absolutely ...


            And how many millennia have people lived without flying?
            and not stupid us with you.
            And nothing, not dead.
            So we are waiting for the law of the State Duma on the restriction of flights over the territory of the Russian Federation.
      2. Hey
        +6
        23 January 2019 09: 19
        Let me add. Recently there was information that military aircraft landed on a civilian airfield due to weather conditions. We sat out for a day and flew further. Everything ended well. Ace or not an ace, why tempt fate unnecessarily, why hero without reason. And so the equipment was broken, people died, the children were left orphans, because of the unwillingness to have an extra day at a foreign airfield to "pokukovat".
    2. 0
      23 January 2019 11: 33
      Lol, it's almost always the only way, think what you say ...
      1. -1
        23 January 2019 11: 54
        And where are the guarantees that the alternate aerodrome is not the same?
        And what if there is little fuel left in the airplane after a combat flight? A bomber is not a nuclear-powered rocket; it cannot be in flight forever.
        1. +1
          23 January 2019 12: 36
          Quote: Corn
          But what if there is little fuel left in the airplane after a combat flight?

          If you don’t have enough to spare, then you need to sit down at home, but ... it becomes clear to the ship's commander immediately if there are large deviations from the ISR or the engine failed and you are lowered to a height that provides flight on one engine, but with a higher specific fuel consumption.
          And by "long distance communication" (HF through "Chaika") you report to the checkpoint that you have problems with fuel and for you they are already deciding where to "Steer" next, which route and where to "land" soldier
          Well, if you "put in that there is no where" and you have a "bucket of kerosene" left, then ... only home soldier
        2. +1
          23 January 2019 17: 09
          One must go to pre-flight directions! feel
        3. +1
          23 January 2019 18: 22
          Quote: Corn
          And where are the guarantees that the alternate aerodrome is not the same?

          But what, there is no connection with the spare? If the spare takes, then what may be the questions?
          1. -2
            23 January 2019 18: 33
            Well, is there a connection that even changes that?
            What is the likelihood of good weather at the alternate aerodrome, if the radius of the average storm front is about 300 kilometers?
            1. +2
              23 January 2019 19: 51
              Quote: Corn
              Well, is there a connection that even changes that?
              What is the likelihood of good weather at the alternate aerodrome, if the radius of the average storm front is about 300 kilometers?

              Well, do not consider everyone so stupid. Probably everything is miscalculating, weather data are being specified. It happens that even on one street in the city the sun is shining, and on another there is a downpour of rain. Just admit that organizing flights is not your element before you persist.request
    3. 0
      23 January 2019 12: 51
      The commission will give recommendations when it deals with the whole range of causes of the disaster.
      1. 0
        23 January 2019 18: 19
        The guilty will be punished, fear will be restrained, others will be banned from flying in imperfect weather - this is the limit of the recommendations of such commissions.
  3. +6
    23 January 2019 07: 01
    Why guess now? They will interrogate the commander when he is able to give testimony, process the records from the "boxes", then it will be clear what happened. The main thing is that the airplane fall, which began this year, should not continue in the future.
    1. 0
      23 January 2019 07: 05
      I agree. I just didn’t understand what and when happened.
    2. +1
      23 January 2019 07: 42
      No, they won’t interrogate. He died.
    3. +1
      23 January 2019 10: 20
      KK was killed. Art. the navigator of the regiment remained alive. The commander, "Pravak" and SHO were killed. Eternal flight.
    4. 0
      23 January 2019 17: 10
      Keep an eye on your surroundings.
    5. +1
      23 January 2019 19: 55
      Quote: inkass_98
      Will interrogate the commander

      The dead are not interrogated. negative
  4. +10
    23 January 2019 07: 07
    "... By the way, now we are actively cooperating with the General Prosecutor's Office, which checks the United Aircraft Corporation. Syr-boron began at the Voronezh Aircraft Building Association (VASO). As a result, nine companies supplied titanium either from the old state reserves, or of the Chinese model, or stolen, posing all this as VSMPO titanium. Unfortunately, not only VASO, but also other enterprises of the United Aircraft Corporation from Kazan, Ulyanovsk, Moscow, Taganrog, Novosibirsk, Irkutsk, Nizhny Novgorod, Komsomolsk-on-Amur purchased titanium, without knowing it, using fake certificates. "

    From an interview with the Head of the Economic Security Department of PJSC "VSMPO-AVISMA Corporation" Uglova OB 17.01.19/XNUMX/XNUMX g.
    1. +9
      23 January 2019 07: 11
      If not for the 8 warnings, I would have spoken out. And just keep silent.
      1. 0
        23 January 2019 17: 11
        Oh, General, and with the 8th NSS! Well, damn it ..............
    2. +1
      23 January 2019 07: 20
      Is it also stolen with vsmpo?
    3. DPN
      +2
      23 January 2019 10: 44
      Yes, capitalism rules cool, glory to Chubais.
    4. +1
      23 January 2019 12: 38
      Quote: Sentinel-vs
      From an interview with the Head of the Economic Security Department of PJSC "VSMPO-AVISMA Corporation" Uglova OB 17.01.19/XNUMX/XNUMX g.

      Well, nowhere from the creatures, who by all means want to cut the dough for free, there is no end! Even where they should not be in principle !!!
  5. +2
    23 January 2019 07: 17
    Maybe my question for specialists from aviation will seem naive, but I’ll ask for difficult weather conditions, snow charges. ..and maybe the military airdrome itself is poorly located? Perhaps there are others in the region, abandoned, or mothballed, but not used, and, because of their location, are the weather conditions better? ?? Then you need to reanimate another military airfield, safer in the climatic sense. ..
    1. +3
      23 January 2019 07: 43
      Here, as always, he simply asked a question, and minuses fell in reply! !! fool fool
      1. +11
        23 January 2019 08: 17
        In this regard, VO is a non-standard site.
        Here they somehow asked the question about the number of ships in the Amer fleet with URO. I decided to help the pyuds and gave the info: in response I got a bunch of minuses instead of gratitude - I don’t know where the moderators are looking (or is it they who indulge in?) request
        1. +2
          23 January 2019 09: 05
          I totally agree.
        2. +2
          23 January 2019 09: 54
          Quote: hydrox
          Here they somehow asked the question about the number of ships in the Amer fleet with URO. I decided to help the pyudam and gave the info :: in response I got a bunch of minuses instead of gratitude

          I noticed this too.
        3. 0
          23 January 2019 10: 14
          Quote: hydrox
          I don’t know where modders look

          Even they already understand that something went wrong ... And in the end they want to make a "hobby" section. Where they promise to give relief in terms of filtering texts, but they don't talk about a minus ...
        4. +2
          23 January 2019 12: 35
          Then they asked a question about the number of ships in the Amerika fleet with URO. I decided to help the kids and gave info: in response I received a bunch of minuses


          Who helps people, that spends time in vain ...
      2. 0
        23 January 2019 12: 42
        Quote: ANCIENT

        Here, as always, he simply asked a question, and minuses fell in reply! !!

        I put a plus, colleague! The fact is that the number and causes of accidents at this aerodrome are known only to specialists, so they probably conduct an analysis and take measures.
    2. 0
      23 January 2019 12: 45
      Quote: ANCIENT
      Or maybe the military airfield itself is poorly located?
      - one of major The reasons for placing a military airfield in a particular place are the weather and the local wind rose. The bands were built in the direction of the wind with the most days in a year.
      It affects everyone, including helicopter pilots. Reasons - shorter strip, saving resources, faster take-off
      There were exceptions - but they are quite rare and only where the terrain did not allow ...
    3. 0
      23 January 2019 17: 15
      In the time of N.S. Khrushchev, from this airfield Tu-95 with 50 MT. AB took off. So that the runway, although with a hollow, but all in a bunch. Before building the runway, 5 years of terrain (from the point of view of meteorology) observations are underway.
  6. -1
    23 January 2019 07: 55
    But aren't the NK-32s from the new series ALREADY on this machine? Then maybe the thing is in the engines?
    1. 0
      23 January 2019 08: 20
      What, at once in two NEW ??
      This is already from the field of unscience ...
    2. +1
      23 January 2019 08: 23
      You still tell me how DAM - we will buy foreign cars! negative
    3. -1
      23 January 2019 09: 11
      Quote: Jurkovs
      But aren't the NK-32s from the new series ALREADY on this machine? Then maybe the thing is in the engines?

      NK-32 of the new series are only on one Tu-22M3M aircraft; it seems to be undergoing tests
      1. 0
        23 January 2019 12: 40
        Quote: DenZ
        NK-32 of the new series are only on one Tu-22M3M aircraft

        They do not stand and .. most likely none of them will be ... These are all "wishlist" and "wishlist".
        Quote: DenZ
        he seems to be undergoing tests

        He just "started" them and then ... "with a creak" soldier
    4. 0
      23 January 2019 12: 39
      Quote: Jurkovs
      But aren't the NK-32s from the new series ALREADY on this machine?

      NK-32 engines (and no series) did not stand on any machine.
      Only R&D and R&D were and that's all ... then the matter .. "did not go" soldier
  7. +5
    23 January 2019 08: 20
    Condolences to loved ones. Too little information to discuss and blame anyone. Many years ago, in winter night, landing in Kurumochi on the L-410 in conditions of strong crosswind. The first time did not work. The plane threw like a sliver, just blown away. We walked at an angle of 45 degrees to the axis of the strip. Near the ground, the commander leveled the airplane and gently planted gently on three points. Many years have passed, I remember the crew and that flight. And here is a heavy car. And then this is military aviation, they must be able to do everything under any conditions.
  8. +1
    23 January 2019 08: 52
    A question for specialists from aviation - could pilots in such a situation catapult, theoretically?
    1. +11
      23 January 2019 09: 03
      They may have given them a command 2 times and the PDP and RP to leave, but they no longer had it. Further: RP gave a command to leave for a substitute in Monchegorsk, but some people (I can’t give a full name and position, but people here are adults and understand everything) gave direct instructions on landing, here is the result, by the way, on leaving on the 2nd circle: in accordance with the RLE, the departure altitude is not less than 50 m, but people left both from 20 and 30 m, it is proved that this is possible, why the commander did not make a decision I don’t know.
      1. +2
        23 January 2019 11: 26
        They write a lot here about the snow charge, but excuse me, but what about the course-glide path landing beacons? Is there any PRMG in a row? RSP in the end? From Vyshka, after all, the board was driven in different ways, a long-range drive passed, "on the course, on the glide path" ... the close one passed ... We somehow even specially practiced blind landing at the airfield .. Sorry guys ..
      2. +1
        23 January 2019 12: 44
        Quote: Rushnairfors
        They may have given them a command 2 times and the PDP and RP to leave, but they no longer had it. Further: RP gave a command to leave for a reserve in Monchegorsk, but some (I can’t give a full name and position, but people here are adults and understand everything) gave direct instructions for landing

        Dmitry, greetings! .. Yes ... history .. "repeats itself" recourse
        And what about the commander ... what level, what m / m, was there an instructor or a full-time crew?
        1. +3
          23 January 2019 19: 29
          Good evening again. Major Guryev, KAO, 2nd grade, I don’t know about the level of training, but they were returning from the flight "according to the task," respectively, at least he had a "formula", in addition, when MR was still "alive", all of our people who flew there on it on the RTR during this period, everyone was obliged to be restored at the m / m, I think he was also restored, there is something else ....... At the KDP, the Moldovan was present, he was curly (maybe you even know his last name or maybe he is personally familiar ) and so, at his command, the guys went to land, although the RP sent him to ZA, now, as they say, "two to the front door, one to the chocolate" are smacking, in the course of the epaulet
          1. +2
            23 January 2019 19: 50
            Quote: Rushnairfors
            accordingly, the "formula" at least he had

            I already know the names of the crew members .... 2nd class ... "the formula is weak" ... all the more so if the flight was at the "minimum" ... it was necessary to have someone on the right .. "put" (at least a detachment or deputy .comska).
            What I can't remember .... drop it in a personal .... my age has been all for a long time ... in the "train" ... well, as for the "youth" ... it's hard to remember .. especially when everything is there .. "mixed up" soldier
            But if there is a recorded fact of interference, then this is .... "bunks shine" like ..... "hello."
            And they "said" that KK had ... "great experience" ...... RP ordered ... everything, replied "yes, transferred to G.P.", put it to MBFR, dispersed to 350, removed landing gear, transferred to a set, at H 100 meters I removed the flaps to 23gr, dispersed more than 380, retract the flaps completely, occupy the height of this RP and .. "go to Monchegorsk, there is only 40 km ... you can go to the H circle and come and ... go from the line or immediately or turn to the RU if the fuel is not enough ..... some "misunderstandings" .... in short
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      23 January 2019 12: 41
      Quote: Kotofeich
      could pilots in such a situation catapult, theoretically?

      Could both practically and theoretically soldier
  9. BAI
    +1
    23 January 2019 09: 05
    In fact, this aircraft is all-weather and should fly, as I understand it, in any conditions. And the airfield should have the appropriate equipment.
    1. 0
      23 January 2019 09: 27
      All-weather refers to the performance of combat missions, and the landing is visually performed.
      1. 0
        23 January 2019 12: 49
        Quote: Bad
        and the landing is visually performed.

        Only in the PMU ....... and so the entry only on the IFR to its m / m .. there is no strip in front .. everything is only in the second round soldier
    2. +2
      23 January 2019 09: 44
      Quote: BAI
      Actually, this is an all-weather airplane and should fly

      In combat conditions, any military aircraft can take off in any weather conditions. But there are always restrictions with landing, only the catapult works without restrictions.
      Therefore, the questions should not be for the pilots, but for those who planned training flights in extremely difficult weather conditions. In such cases, the flight director should be taken into custody immediately.
      1. +4
        23 January 2019 10: 30
        Quote: Vita VKO
        questions should not be for pilots, but for those who planned training flights in extremely difficult weather conditions

        This is the Arctic. The weather there may change in a few minutes.
      2. +2
        23 January 2019 11: 00
        Planning flights is not the Flight Director. And the regiment commander and the combat training department. If the RP acted according to the instructions in this situation, and gave the command to leave for the 2nd round, and the command to ejection in the event of an OSB, then why should he be taken into custody?
        1. +1
          23 January 2019 12: 54
          Quote: ustavshiy shmel
          And the regiment commander and the combat training department.

          Commander, Zams and Commandos ... all .... OBP only prints in the "final" version all the "drafts" for all versions. soldier
          Otherwise, I agree soldier except why didn't you "see" .. "snow charge approach"? recourse
          1. +1
            23 January 2019 13: 48
            Quote: Random
            except why didn't you "see" .. "snow charge approach"?

            Well, we saw. And what, they can stop the charge? An ordinary cloud. Now the sky with gaps, in 15 minutes snow, wind gusts, visibility is zero. Been in "Olenya" on business trips 100/500 times (Olenegorsk is like a native home). I remember sitting in June-July on Permus Lake with a fishing rod, in shorts, you can even sunbathe, and suddenly everything went dark and the snow fell. There in the garrison "Vysokiy" there was a bike. When Khrushchev made a stopover there during his flight to Cuba, he was surprised - "Why are you paying a Polar? Warmth, beautiful nature, ..." Like, you need to cancel. But God, as the locals said, "is not a frayer and sees everything." While Nikita was driving from the airfield to the residence, a snow charge hit, and he was already entering his "dacha" ankle-deep in snow.
            1. +2
              23 January 2019 15: 58
              Quote: Piramidon
              Well, they saw. And what, can they stop the charge? Ordinary cloud. Now the sky is with gleams, after 15 minutes of snow, gusts of wind, visibility is zero.

              And what? ... And the fact that it is SIMPLY to send the crew to the second round and once again enter already in more or less normal conditions .... you yourself write that - after 15 minutes, snow, gusts of wind, visibility is zero.
              15 minutes is another circle (with a 3rd turn at a distance of 28-30 km) ... you will spend 1,5-2 tons of fuel and .... during this time, "decide" - to go in again or just to the spare?
              Or is it so difficult for the modern air force? belay
      3. +1
        23 January 2019 11: 04
        Also, after the command RP - "I CLEAR to land" (note "I authorize", but I do not order, this is the information of the CC that the runway is free), the CC decides to land, and in this situation he could (and should) independently decide to land or go around.
        1. +1
          23 January 2019 11: 10
          Quote: ustavshiy shmel
          Also, after the command RP - "ALLOWED to land"

          Do not confuse the responsibilities of the flight operations manager and the civilian air traffic controller.
          The flight director has a manual on combat training, where everything is clearly scheduled and no recommendations are provided.
          1. +1
            23 January 2019 15: 04
            I am not confused. RP has no "combat training manual" !!!! For him (RP) a bunch of other governing documents, now these are various "FAPs" (federal aviation rules), mainly, etc.
      4. +3
        23 January 2019 11: 09
        And there are no super difficult weather conditions for military pilots. There are simple meteorological conditions (PMU), complex meteorological conditions (SMU) and minimum weather for a given aerodrome. And if the conditions are lower than the established ones, then the airfield "by storm" is closed and flights are accordingly not performed.
      5. +1
        23 January 2019 12: 52
        Quote: Vita VKO
        and to those who planned training flights in extremely difficult weather conditions. In such cases, the flight director should be taken into custody immediately.

        RP or CRP as a rule do not take part in the "drawing" of the PTP ..... RP it is brought already on the instructions soldier
        Quote: Vita VKO
        In such cases, the flight director should be taken into custody immediately.

        On the tower everything is "written" and "microphone" communication and the general internal ... will immediately find who. What and what commands to whom he gave .... soldier
    3. +3
      23 January 2019 12: 47
      Quote: BAI
      In fact, this aircraft is all-weather and should fly, as I understand it, in any conditions.

      Fly and ... "land" are ... two big differences.
      Quote: BAI
      And the airfield should have the appropriate equipment.

      Not a sales dream of military pilots ..... SP-50 for happiness, and even if Tesla is worth it, then in general ... "the height of bliss" soldier
  10. ZVS
    +10
    23 January 2019 10: 06
    This is not the first or last disaster in the aviation of the Russian Air Force. Judging by the number of catastrophes and accidents in recent years, professional security issues in the air force have not been given. Out of the blue in an ordinary situation, the Air Force receive severe disasters. But another fact is interesting here: why should a pilot be treated in Moscow?
    According to those who underwent treatment in Moscow hospitals, it becomes clear that military medicine remained only in Moscow, because they bring it from all over Russia. Even in order to conduct a stenting operation, servicemen are brought from all garrisons, right up to the Far East. The same can be said about other diseases. Probably not brought to Moscow only with diarrhea. It is already being treated on the spot.
    It becomes clear that in remote districts the level of professionalism of military doctors is falling, the number of which is decreasing every year. The best doctors go to paid medicine. There is nothing to say about military surgery, this is not the same military surgery that was in the USSR.
  11. The comment was deleted.
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  12. DPN
    0
    23 January 2019 10: 35
    For some reason, in recent times, PILOTS behave like TESTS, have TB or don’t put their lives in anything. Now it’s not WAR that a plane would be more expensive than the life of a PILOT.
  13. 0
    23 January 2019 11: 31
    Land in peace flyers.
    1. +1
      23 January 2019 13: 54
      Quote: serezhasoldatow
      Land in peace flyers.

      Minus for the "flyers". In aviation, this is considered a contemptuous and offensive designation for flight personnel. There are words like pilot, pilot, crew member, ... aviator (if in the old fashioned way) after all.
      1. 0
        23 January 2019 14: 28
        For some reason, I remembered the classics:

        Flyer released.
        Shaking two blades,
        Like a sea monster in the water,
        Slid into the air jet.

        His screws sing like strings ...
        See: unwavering pilot
        To the blind sun over the podium
        Striving its screw flight ...

        .....

        And the beast with the silent screws
        Powis frightening angle ...
        Look for withered eyes
        Props in the air ... empty!

        Too late: on the grass of the plain
        Wing crumpled arc ...
        In the gossip and wire machines
        The hand is deadlier than the lever ...
      2. +2
        23 January 2019 15: 58
        I don’t know, ours were not offended. I heard a lot from them.
        1. +1
          23 January 2019 16: 52
          Quote: serezhasoldatow
          I don’t know, ours were not offended. I heard a lot from them.

          "Yours" are what? In OUR aviation KSF it was considered inappropriate. hi
          1. 0
            28 January 2019 09: 13
            Aren't you too lazy to hammer in the ether?
  14. +1
    23 January 2019 12: 39
    "The media announced" is not a verdict, but disinformation. When the official investigation is completed and the verdict of the experts is issued, they will not write about this, because the facts will not fit together. But so much the worse for the facts. There is a great information war for chairs. The victims of this war are busy discussing media announcements.
    1. +1
      23 January 2019 14: 49
      Quote: iouris
      When the official investigation is completed and a verdict of experts is issued, they will no longer write about it

      Well, they’ll do it right. This information is from the chipboard section and regarding. There is nothing for any couch experts to discuss what only specialists need to know. They are dumbfounded. They stamp their feet, knock their fists on the clave - take them out and put them all the information about the investigation.
  15. 0
    23 January 2019 13: 34
    This allows you to transport the victim to the Moscow military hospital.


    And in the damned AI where they usually take seriously ill from all over the country ??
    Where is their hospital ?? In Washington or in New York ??
    From Chicago transported to Miami ?? Or from Miami to Los Angeles ??
    I would like to understand how everything is arranged there ..
  16. +2
    23 January 2019 14: 32
    Quote: Rushnairfors
    They may have given them a command 2 times and the PDP and RP to leave, but they no longer had it. Further: RP gave a command to leave for a spare in Monchegorsk but some (I can’t name full name and position,.

    U. Rashneirfors. I beg you very much, remove the stone from the soul. Is it at least not the Hero of a military clash with Georgia who called Zelin on his cell phone?
  17. +1
    23 January 2019 17: 03
    Quote: Random
    And the fact that it is SIMPLY to send the crew to the second round and once again enter already in more or less normal conditions ....

    You delve into the topic of the article. About that and speech. The whole question is why they did not go to the second round or to the reserve even to Severomorsk, even to Monchegorsk? This is what the commission of inquiry should find out. We had a similar situation when com. regiment, honored military pilot decided not to leave for a spare (the holiday was on the nose) and decided to sit in the fog. As a result, he overshot the lane, and he died and another 9 crew members dragged him to the next world. And his slave went to the spare in the same Deer and a few days later flew home with a lively and healthy crew
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +1
          23 January 2019 20: 09
          Quote: Piramidon
          What was it? Interested in pictures?

          No .. I just can’t answer his brother ...... "instructions" in a rude form soldier
          You read again what you wrote -.".... You will delve into the topic of the article." and to whom did you ... "wrote" ... soldier
          1. +1
            23 January 2019 20: 34
            Quote: Random
            and to whom did you ... "wrote" ...

            I seem to have quoted your quote before replying. It seems to me that you can understand what your post I answered. Or did you decide to mow under a misunderstanding so as not to admit your mistakes? request
            1. 0
              23 January 2019 21: 26
              Quote: Piramidon
              I seem to have quoted your quote before answering

              Quote: Piramidon
              Well, they saw. And what, can they stop the charge? Ordinary cloud. Now the sky is with gleams, after 15 minutes of snow, gusts of wind, visibility is zero.

              And what? ... And the fact that it is SIMPLY to send the crew to the second round and once again enter already in more or less normal conditions .... after all, write for yourself that - after 15 minutes, snow, gusts of wind, visibility is zero.
              15 minutes is another circle (with a 3rd turn at a distance of 28-30 km) ... you will spend 1,5-2 tons of fuel and .... during this time, "decide" - to go in again or just to the spare?
              Or is it so difficult for the modern air force?
              I specially highlighted everything for you your question and my answer ... read it again, maybe it’s up to you .. "will it reach ..." that you wrote .......? (Think of the wording yourself) soldier
              Quote: Piramidon
              Or did you decide to mow under a misunderstanding so as not to admit your mistakes?

              But "this" you wrote exactly about yourself .... soldier
              1. +1
                24 January 2019 10: 34
                Quote: Random
                I have specially highlighted your question for you and My answer ... read it again, maybe it’s up to you

                And the fact that I answered you in the next post, you somehow missed the eye.
                The whole question is why they did not go to the second round or to the reserve even to Severomorsk, even to Monchegorsk?

                Although the RP gave them a command to leave for Monchegorsk
                1. 0
                  24 January 2019 10: 46
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  And the fact that I answered you in the next post, you somehow missed the eye.

                  I don’t have such a habit since .. "childhood" .. "skip" anything and "leave something unanswered" soldier
                  If you mean your question "... WHY did they not go to the second round or to the spare, even to Severomorsk, even to Monchegorsk?"
                  So I gave you a clear answer to it ..... k.k. second class pilot and most importantly .. "Senior ordered" ... that's what I think soldier
                  And here is why this koment was deleted ... these questions are not for me soldier
  18. +2
    23 January 2019 17: 24
    Quote: Vita VKO
    The flight director has a manual on combat training

    Well, you are bent!
  19. -1
    24 January 2019 04: 23
    As they say - "even cool, even twist"! The final decision is made by the commander, he is responsible for everything and there is no need to declare - "everything will be put on the commander." Something, lately, the flyers have lost their scent, they are killing people, equipment.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. 0
    24 January 2019 12: 26
    Not a good comparison. If for the most part there are two participants in an accident, then the blame is on one of the two already. ......

    Never flew, drove a lot. Experienced drivers know that both drivers are ALWAYS to blame for the accident, the question is, in what shares. Even if you are driving along the main road to a steady traffic light and you are driven into the side of the carriage from the side driveway, your share of guilt is also there, or you are a teapot. An experienced driver should predict traffic conditions and avoid such situations.
  22. 0
    24 January 2019 16: 12
    It is good to speak with tongues about the dead. This is an airfield, where you sweat in PMU too, there at one time several M-ok crashed. The difference in the strip to the center of 5 meters, if not paved in the first 400 m, consider a disaster. These did not seem to be able to, maybe the breeze blew, and to go to the second round on such a ship from the height of alignment ... This is not a fighter, gave the fast and the furious and raced ...
  23. +1
    24 January 2019 21: 09
    “Why Tu-22M3 didn’t make a go-around or an alternate airfield” - it seems to me such a stupid throw-in for a new article.
    Actually, after the Crimea-2014, the site became shallow.
  24. +1
    24 January 2019 23: 45
    he is on the pedals where automation and IE
  25. The comment was deleted.

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