What is more necessary for Russia: fleet or army?

267
Russia is land. Eurasia. Huge by any measure continental mass. The blessing of the people who live on it, because it gives them a place in the sun, freedom of movement, freedom of maneuver in the war, extensive resources and communication, equal to which few people can find. Curse to the people who live on it, because such a territory cannot be reliably protected, it is not possible to build an effective economy on it, it is very difficult to master it and it is very expensive to maintain. Unique education by any standards.

Our homeland.



The vast majority of its population lives in the depths of the continent and in the depths of the continent are the main and most important economic centers, natural resources and the main symbols of the state. In addition to St. Petersburg and Sochi. And Vladivostok, about which the inhabitant of the depths of the continent does not usually recall. Yes and story the local population is also connected with land, with forests and fields. Anyone to take - the descendants of Russian farmers and woodcutters, or nomads who gave their genes to the Kalmyks and Tatars. And the most terrible invasions of these lands have always occurred on the ground. Even if the question arose - will the local population and the state built by them, the faith that has grown on these lands and the culture pulling everything together continue to exist - then it was raised by the people who came across the land. On foot, on horseback, on tanks and armored personnel carriers, but on the ground. And mentally our people almost always recognize themselves as natural inhabitants of this land landscape.

In our time, this worldview has begun to generate extremely dangerous cognitive distortion, which can, in principle, be fatal. In some circumstances, at least, for sure.


"John Lehman" power demonstration: a Romeo battle group of the Long Beach nuclear missile cruiser, the New Jersey battleship, the Spryuance class Merrill destroyer, a pair of American frigates and Australian URO ships. Plus a tanker and integrated supply ship. Somewhere in the western part of the Pacific Ocean, off the coast of North Korea, 1986. Group 48 has the Tomahawks. This is less than what one Arly Burke destroyer did not yet exist, comparable to how many Caliber, for example, the Black Sea fleet RF today. And somewhere there is still an atomic submarine in the depths. Or two


Ask a question to anyone: what is more important for Russia - the army or the navy? Any person to whom such a question will be asked will surely answer that the army. After all, we live on land. Well, what fleet in Voronezh? In Moscow? In Novosibirsk? After all, traditionally our fate was decided in land wars, and the fleet there, of course, could play an important role, but never played a major one. In the history of Russia on the move and do not remember the wars, where vital issues would be solved exclusively or almost exclusively in sea battles - except that the Russian-Swedish war 1788-1790, when the army was almost completely connected with Turkey. But it is rather an exception.

It is not necessary to describe the level of threats our country is facing now. In fact, the only thing to which the West has not yet descended is the conduct of a terrorist war on our territory. In the meantime, they will tamp off on the sly and beat in the back, crush them with sanctions and arrange provocations, they are sure that time is working on them, and that we just need to finish them off, correcting the mistake made in 90's, when it could be done, but when it was not done. They will not stop.

All this happens under conditions when economists brought up on imported methods and textbooks simply cannot achieve economic growth. In such conditions, spending on defense should be simply infallible. And here the question arises before us - what to finance in the first place, what the second and so on.

Someone will say again that the ground forces, but let's think about it.

The issue of military construction is inextricably linked with military threats to the state, and political ambitions in the world, which must be supported by military force. About the second later, but for now let's analyze the threats.

Is a land attack possible on the Russian Federation? Let's try to imagine it, rejecting the nuclear factor weapons (and then we will return this factor, it has not gone anywhere).

In general, as we know from history, many tried to “break Russia”, and some even managed to fix the victory “on points”, but no one was left either happy or satisfied. Even the British, who won the Crimean War, remember it without smiles. To fight on land against Russia is still a pleasure. This is well remembered, for example, by the Germans. There was, of course, foreign intervention during the Civil War, but then the country was completely disorganized, for the first time in several centuries. Now is not the case.

So does the land war threaten us, in order to prepare for which we must make the financing of the land forces a priority?

To attack Russia from land, you need this land itself. The territory where the enemy troops will be deployed, where their rear will be deployed, where the reinforcements will arrive, and where the invasion will be made from.

And then the lobbyists injecting all the money into the ground forces, there is a problem - there is no such land.

We look at the map. In the West, our country borders, from south to north, with Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland and Norway.

Of these countries, Ukraine and, in some cases, Poland would join the attack on Russia. Norway might have been able to incline to passive participation in the form of infrastructure provision. The Baltic countries could also connect. But these territories are not enough. Ukraine does not control itself, and Russia has not only advantages in speed of deployment, but also the ability to sharply intensify and aggravate the internal conflict in this country, up to the full-fledged incitement of new hotbeds of war. Moreover, this will be done many times faster than some aggressor will be able to transfer some contingent of substantial strength and strength to it.

Poland can geographically attack only the Kaliningrad enclave; it is impossible to inflict a decisive defeat of the RF Armed Forces from its territory. It’s the same with the Baltic States - the Russian Federation is near, and it will be ahead with deployment. Norway, with its jammed population, with participation in a similar operation itself will be conquered, and very quickly - the Arctic brigade from the front and the Airborne Forces from the rear will not allow NATO to defend a narrow strip of northern Norway, if we happen to be ahead of them with deployment - and we will be ahead of them. With Svalbard can also turn out "sad." And if not, that the attack from Norway is extremely inconvenient, the grouping of the invasion in that area and deploying is difficult and difficult to supply. Heavier than us troops. General Dietl would confirm.

At the same time, the West obviously cannot form the same united political space to the west of our country, which Hitler had in 1941. So it will not be able to deploy a single grouping of the invasion either. Plus, Europe is extremely dependent on Russian energy sources, whose supplies in the event of war will immediately stop, and this is guaranteed to keep the same Germany from participating in any adventures. Thus, a full-scale invasion by land from the West to Russia at this historical stage is simply technically unrealizable, even without taking into account our tactical nuclear weapons - and it is taken into account!

A limited war somewhere in the vicinity of Kaliningrad or the Baltic states, will no longer be purely land. Any opponent who wants to fight with us from the territory of the Baltic countries, or near Kaliningrad, will have to - attention! - to keep open sea communications in the Baltic. Otherwise, either he will not be able to supply his groupings (in the Baltic States) or we will be able to supply ours in Kaliningrad, and then to the west, in Gdansk, the same.

Hence the first and second conclusions.

The first — an invasion by land into Russia from the West is currently technically impossible.

Secondly, if the Baltic Fleet is able to hold communications to the sea west of the Kaliningrad enclave, then a limited war with Russia on land is impossible.

Not on the Norwegian border to arrange it.

In fact, we have only one threat, which can be considered purely land-based - the suicidal offensive of Ukraine on the territory of Russia or the republics of Donbass. What happens in such situations, we have already seen. The idea that the Ukrainians "pulled up" the level of their army and it became something significant you can safely fold. Ukrainian society is not able to organize itself into complex structures, and the army is a complex structure.

That is, there are no threats of attacks by land from the West, such an attack is technically unfeasible, and limited provocations can be parried by the control of maritime communications in the Baltic from our side.

Maybe we can face an attack on the ground in the East? But there is only one country there, technically capable of such an attack, and having a long enough border for it - China. The attack of China on Russia is currently impossible politically. China is in the clinch with the United States, the topic of the war with China is very popular in the American information space, in blogs, in books, popular technotriller series are written about it (for example, David Poyer, with his TV series “War with China” is one of the most popular series of books in the USA last year), the American destroyers regularly check the Chinese for strength around their bulk islands, India slowly but surely turns to the USA, Japan is being remilitarized, which is also “under the USA”.

China itself is still technologically dependent on the Russian Federation, in any case, a number of equipment supplied from here and components for military equipment, the Chinese have nothing to replace, like similar products related to nuclear energy. In addition, Russia is a potential “road of life” for China, in the case of its hypothetical sea blockade. Attacking Russia under such conditions is pure suicide, even if you do not take into account Russian nuclear weapons, and you will have to take it into account again.

From whom, then, will the army defend the Motherland? From the DPRK? From Mongolia?

To attack us by land or by no one, or from nowhere, the threat of an attack on Russia by land is almost non-existent, or is retaliated by the fleet (Baltic), or is not serious (Ukraine).

In fact, the army for Russia is a whip to educate neighbors. While Ukraine. And if everything goes the way it goes, then only Ukraine, and this is not forever.

But everything changes, and it changes very dramatically if we begin to assess the risks for Russia that come from the sea.

Among the inhabitants of our vast land mass, the myth that Russia does not depend on sea communications is popular.

However, even a banal look at the map says the opposite.

Starting from Sakhalin, there is a gigantic “arc” of Russian lands, the connection with which is carried out only by coastal shipping by sea and rare air flights. Sakhalin, Magadan, Kuriles, Kamchatka, Chukotka, northern regions of Yakutia, settlements on Kolyma, Norilsk, Yamal, Nenets Autonomous District - these territories depend on sea communications to a critical degree, and are lost without them. Apart from Kaliningrad, which also has no border with the rest of Russia by land, about 1,3 million people live in these territories. There are located mineral deposits, military bases important to the country's security, such enterprises as Norilsk Nickel, ports, and some industries (for example, in Magadan). Russia's sovereignty over these territories ensures its military security, guarantees exclusive rights to the shelf of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, and, in the long run, to the Arctic shelf.

If we add the Kaliningrad region to all this, then it turns out that about 2,2 million people live on the territory of Russia “tied up” to the sea communications. This is more than Iceland in terms of population, and disproportionately more in terms of resources and industrial potential. This is only nine hundred thousand less than it lives in Mongolia. And also incomparable in resources and industrial potential.

And all this is kept by sea communications. By sea.


Russia can be like that.


Moreover, Russia's foreign trade also depends on sea communications. At the beginning of the 2000s, roughly 60% of our entire foreign trade (in monetary terms) passed through seaports. And although, on the whole, the share of sea transportation in the general structure of transportation in Russia is not large, but it is vital.

And the enemy, having strong and well prepared Navy is able to interrupt these communications.

How to get on tanks to Tokyo? Is it possible to start a nuclear war with the death of all or almost the entire population of the Russian Federation due to the blockade of Egvekinot? Would you start?

Today, the problem of our continentally located country is that our enemies are not going to invade us by land - they threaten us from the sea. Moreover, their superiority at sea gives them the opportunity to manage the escalation of the conflict as they please - to build it up or vice versa. And in our country, in connection with the almost complete collapse of the Navy, it is simply not possible to oppose such an escalation. Nothing. There are not even a dozen ships in the Pacific Fleet capable of escorting convoys from merchant ships within the framework of the Northern Delivery. No anti-submarine forces, almost no. There are no landing forces capable of landing at least one battalion with equipmentwithout resorting to unsuitable ships or mobilized ships. Yes actually we have bad ships everywhere, naval aviation too.

Or take a higher level - limited local war, even nuclear. The Americans have a large number of URO ships and submarines capable of carrying cruise missiles, and carrier-based aircraft may well carry nuclear bombs. During the NorPac Fleetex Ops'82 and 83 exercises, Americans showed that even the Soviet Navy was not able to prevent their attacks on Kamchatka and the Kuril Islands, in any case, allocated to counter the forces of the marine missile aviation and the fleet was always late and ended up where the US Navy’s AUS was no longer there, and when they invaded our airspace, no one could stop them. What can we say about the current extremely small forces of the RF Armed Forces. Today, the Americans are quite able to conduct an extremely destructive offensive operation against the Far East, the Kuril Islands or Kamchatka, even against the Kola Peninsula. Moreover, actions from the sea give them the opportunity to simply simply drop everything and leave without bringing the matter to nuclear weapons.


UDC "America" ​​and F-35B. New ship and new aircraft for him. Americans are mostly not reinforcing the army, they think about something else.


This is another important feature of the war at sea that we do not understand - you can just go and leave, giving the enemy the opportunity to crawl with his weak forces against a superior enemy somewhere in the world’s ocean, without support, trying to “save face” and carry out what - the action of retribution, most likely doomed to failure. For the time being, they are being held back by the fact that we can arrange an escalation somewhere else, where, for example, our Gauges reach out to their bases. And the possibility of a disproportionately aggressive response, for example, the physical capture of Norway to ensure the operation of its fleet in the Norwegian Sea. And the fact that, although with losses, we can send to the bottom of a number of their ships, but they do not want this.

Let's see how much more it will be, their patience is clearly running out, they want blood, and statements about the naval blockade of Russia from their officials last year have already sounded. Will we start a nuclear war because of the blockade? We have no other tools in this situation. Nor did Norway seize in response to arrests of tankers and bulk carriers.

By the way, about the blockade.

You can not touch our coasters. You can turn those who come to us and from us on international lines from third countries or to these countries. Stand in the English Channel, the Sea of ​​Japan, somewhere near the Danish Straits, at the exit from the Dardanelles and implement the blockade there. And stop only ships under neutral flags operating on lines from and to Russia. And here we even have no formal reason to intervene. And such a measure can bring the economy to its knees.

Again, this will be a big “minus to karma” of Americans who declare themselves to be defenders of global freedom of navigation. They will need for such actions a very serious reason. While it is not. But if it appears, then again we have nothing to answer. And goodbye, foreign trade.

The consequences will be disastrous.

And yet, if someone does not remember, we are waging war. In Syria, on the theater of turbine isolated from our country. With grouping, the supply of which is almost completely carried out by sea. Through communications controlled by a potentially unfriendly (so far) Turkey. A member of NATO and a participant in the terrorist war against our friendly Syria, the country that shot down our military aircraft in front of the television cameras that had been brought to the point of provocation beforehand.

Note that the fleet in this war plays a much more important role than ground forces, albeit auxiliary to the VKS. And this is very significant.

What is more necessary for Russia: fleet or army?

Bashar al-Assad owes much to our fleet. If it were not for the Navy, then neither he, nor his country, nor, possibly, his family, would have existed, and the Alawite co-religionists would have been cut out


Let us see which countries are hostile to the Russian Federation in general and with whom we may encounter in some local war, even if it is fierce, but limited. Ukraine, Poland, Turkey (if Erdogan again “brings”), Japan, the United States, possibly with Britain, maybe with Norway. Of these countries, Poland, Ukraine, and Norway have a land border with us, but not only the army, but also the fleet will be needed to deal with them. And with the others - only aircraft, including the sea, and the fleet.

Well, in a strategic, global war with the United States or the united West, for us the army is insofar as. The Strategic Missile Forces, aviation, submarines with missiles ... and again we run into the fact that we need a full-fledged and efficient fleet, anti-submarine defense, naval aviation. After all, the most dangerous thing for us that such an enemy has in such a situation is its nuclear submarines, and no army can cope with them.

The priorities of military construction should be rethought. After the Strategic Missile Forces and combat aviation, which should take the first places without options, instead of ground forces there should be a subtle and well-thought-out combination of financing specific areas important for the development of military power - for example, ship repair for the Navy, and the expansion of the line of ammunition for army men, a couple new frigates, and modernization of hundreds of tanks. Financing priorities should be repelled by threats, and threats from the sea are more dangerous and more real than the threat of an attack over land. And we ourselves, on land, will easily attack anyone, and we will roll out this anyone into powder now, it would be enough just shells. With the fleet, everything is getting worse, and its quickest possible bringing into a combat-ready state should be one of the state priorities. right now. While this is not, instead, the Main Marine Parade, gunboats with the "Gauges" and the telecast "Shock Force".

And of course, with the security of some political ambitions, the army loses to the fleet. If only because the fleet in theory can do it anywhere. Maybe in Venezuela, in Cuba. It can send a landing brigade to the ships and maneuver them near Gibraltar. May show the flag to the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands. The army can only crush and only neighbors, so it is arranged, and nothing can be done about it. Although it can be transported somewhere on ships ...

So, those who still repeat the mantras like “we are a land power”, “we do not have sea communications that we should protect” and the like, it’s time to think.

All wrong.

The threat from the sea and the degree of danger to the population of the Russian Federation, and the likelihood of becoming a military conflict, has already surpassed the hypothetical attack on Russia by land. There will be no hordes of tanks, and the chains of enemy infantry going right through the burning native birches, there will be some semblance of the Crimean War, only small-scale and sluggish, so as not to bring to nuclear weapons, and the stakes in such a conflict will not be very large, but the loss will be from one the sides are humiliating and hitting badly for reputation, and on the other, inevitable. After all, our surface fleet has long been inferior not only to the Chinese, but also to the Japanese, underwater mainly for repairs, only a shadow has remained of naval aviation ...

However, we have excellent tank troops. They will not reach Tokyo or at least Sapporo, but they look great on TV, and several dozens of battalions from their composition can completely curtain one inadequate neighboring state. You can console yourself with this, since there is nothing more.

Or nuclear torpedo.
267 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. +18
      19 January 2019 07: 27
      The article is very - even more than - topical!
      Russia really needs an extremely developed and sufficiently quantitative submarine and surface navy. Plus aviation. And this problem is very acute!

      The USA, China, NATO countries declare their claims for freedom of movement across the Arctic Ocean along Russian borders. And according to the forecasts of 2016 of the year Russia's submarine fleet slides to the level of French and British, that is, secondary sea powers, unable to withstand even the fleets of China and Japan. Namely.

      For example, it is known that in the process of decommunization and rising from knees in the Russian Federation at the time of 2016 year 53 strategic missile carrier was destroyed, in exchange the construction of new SSBNs began - the 955 Borey project, but only eight are planned, and at the end of their construction all Dolphins and Squids will be decommissioned. The total salvo of all Russian SSBNs after rearmament will be less than that of one Typhoon.

      By 2025, the fleet of "renewed" Russia will include 16 nuclear submarines, of which 8 are SSBNs. Against eight 885 for the RF:
      the USA is building 30 brand new Virginias,
      - the French fleet has 6 nuclear submarines of the "Rubis" type,
      - British - 6 Asyut-class submarines.
      TOTAL The ratio is 42 versus 8, and this is taking into account the overwhelming superiority in antisubmarine forces of the enemy.
      For missile carriers, not much better - against Russians 8 - NATO has 20.
      With all this, the enemy has the opportunity to sharply increase the pace of construction and the number of keels, Russia - no.

      Such were the data on the Russian Federation for 2016 year. It must be assumed that they have not really changed.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +5
          19 January 2019 08: 44
          Quote: Sayan
          no one ever questioned the importance and necessity of the fleet

          Very many even sometimes questioned the importance and necessity of the Russian Navy!
          For example, Gorbachev and Yeltsin "cut" the Russian fleet, belittling its importance and need for our country - at the covert demand of the United States!
          1. 0
            19 January 2019 09: 00
            Are there any other arguments? Humpbacked and ebn ruined the whole country, no need to cross Georgian with a motorcycle
          2. +3
            19 January 2019 12: 43
            Quote: Tatiana
            Quote: Sayan
            no one ever questioned the importance and necessity of the fleet

            Very many even sometimes questioned the importance and necessity of the Russian Navy!
            For example, Gorbachev and Yeltsin "cut" the Russian fleet, belittling its importance and need for our country - at the covert demand of the United States!

            The fleet began to cut Khrushchev (like all of our ICBMs)))).
            .And these (the humpback and then ebn) simply all destroyed both the Army and Navy and the industry of the USSR.
            Still managed to save something ..
            1. 0
              19 January 2019 13: 12
              We are ahead of the US and NATO in the construction of ice class ships. Maybe we should make the Northern direction a priority? Arm the icebreakers with missile and anti-submarine weapons. The North Pole is the shortest distance to the United States. Checkmate. By icebreakers, they are decades behind us. And SevMorPut will be under protection.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. +1
                  19 January 2019 17: 13
                  Have you forgotten the Christopher to ask whom to swing? The Russians always didn’t care who to swing at. We’ll work for anyone. And you smear the heel with fat, fresh minus. laughing
                  1. +2
                    19 January 2019 19: 33
                    Quote: o201
                    Maybe you should think about eating first?
                    What will you chew in the Arctic?

                    Do not make a cult of food. Incidentally, the Arctic is the largest and last pantry of human resources and it would be foolish not to compete for this pie.

                    Quote: o201
                    The United States is 81 times richer than Russia.

                    And now what, do not defend your interests? Ask Uncle Sam what would he give us twenty years to pump biceps?

                    Quote: o201
                    Insolent, against Israel, Singapore and even Denmark, they are a little poorer.

                    And fearless against NATO and the United States, as evidenced by our Crimea and Bashar al-Assad, who retained his power in Syria.


                    Quote: Bearded
                    And you smear the heel with fat, fresh minus.

                    Here's another fat to spend on it. wassat
                2. +2
                  19 January 2019 21: 11
                  We won’t ask you for sure - it’s worth explaining to you, at least something, if someone is sure that the most important thing is the economy), well, continue to be sure only of this and further)))
                3. +2
                  19 January 2019 23: 11
                  Understatement, where does the information that the US is 81 times richer than the Russian Federation come from? Alternative Ukrainian education?
                4. The comment was deleted.
                5. +4
                  20 January 2019 00: 31
                  Maybe you should think about eating first?
                  Are you starving? I feel sorry for you.
          3. +6
            19 January 2019 13: 11
            Quote: Tatiana
            For example, Gorbachev and Yeltsin "cut" the Russian fleet, belittling its importance and need for our country - at the covert demand of the United States!

            Well, everything is clear with them - they are "kaki". But who transgluted the "Sharks"? 6 "sharks" perfectly replaced b 8 "Boreevs" and savings on "Ash" And timely repairs in the early 2000s pr 956 and pr 1155 would have saved 2 dozen ships of the 1st rank. All "handsome" in this case.
            1. 0
              21 January 2019 09: 09
              Do you even know what this "shark" of yours is?
              1. 0
                21 January 2019 10: 03
                Until it was ruined by a completely working machine with a large resource. Or do you think Northwind is better in terms of reliability and price?
                1. 0
                  21 January 2019 10: 07
                  40 thousand tons due to abnormally large missiles. Which EMNIP have already expired, they also have storage periods. Where is there "Borey", which is 18k tons, and the same number of missiles.
                  1. 0
                    21 January 2019 10: 14
                    48 tons when the ability to carry a large combat load was a disadvantage? The thesis about missiles, which ran out and everything was lost, is not sound - firstly, the "Bark" was developed, and secondly, anything could fit into such mines as a temporary measure - for example, "Liner" with additional. the starting stage for a "dry" start, in the third - this is a ready-made carrier of "Vanguard" (in the sense of "Bark" or "Liner") and "Poseidon" will enter the mine (do not be afraid that it would float vertically - it would have floated as it should).
                    1. +1
                      21 January 2019 10: 36
                      The boat is not carrying an abstract load, but concrete rockets. The missiles turned out to be large, the carrier for them also turned out to be large, the missiles became smaller, the need disappeared. And yes, it is not even funny to use such a unit that does not fit into any dock for some "Poseidons". This is shooting flies from a cannon.
                      1. +1
                        21 January 2019 10: 43
                        You do not have the right view, study the history of American missile carriers.
                        Quote: EvilLion
                        for some "Poseidons"

                        Strongly said but without knowledge of the subject.
                2. +1
                  21 January 2019 15: 57
                  Quote: mark1
                  Until it was completely dismantled, it was a working machine with a large resource.

                  If we take for comparison 667BDR, the service life of the SSBN is 35-40 years.
                  The youngest SSBN of 941 projects would be 30 years old now. That is, he would have ten years left to serve him, and this service would be interrupted by repairs, the duration and frequency of which on an elderly submarine, PMSM, would be greater than on a new one. As a result, after 5 years we would still have to start building new SSBNs. Moreover, the savings due to the refusal to build "Boreyev" would be minimal - because this money would have had to capitalize the project 941 withdrawn from the reserve.
                  And since during the revival of Project 941, the direction of the "Bark" would have been chosen (the Russian Federation would not have pulled three SLBMs), then new SSBNs would have to be built for this monster. And it's not a fact that it would have worked out for us - in the required quantities.
                  1. 0
                    21 January 2019 17: 35
                    The service life of 941 project boats could well be at least 50 years as an aircraft carrier (with such a hull)
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    this money would have had to capitalize funds withdrawn from the reserve, etc. 941.

                    The fact of the matter is that if they hadn't been taken out to the reserve and hadn't been sawing on pins and needles, then much less money would have been required, and the commissioning of the Boreyev would have been less critical in terms of timing (and the total number is less)
                    Originally pr 955 was developed as a carrier of 12 "Barks"
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    And since during the revival of Project 941, the direction of the "Bark" would have been chosen (the Russian Federation would not have pulled three SLBMs), then new SSBNs would have to be built for this monster. And it's not a fact that it would have worked out for us - in the required quantities.

                    By the way, according to V.I. Boreas is quite a "Ohio" - ie. not small and with a "barque" "believe me, the VI would not have changed.
                    Having sprayed forces and means on pr 955 and 885 as a result, we practically did not receive either one or the other in the right quantities
                    You criticize the modernization and maintenance of 941, but in this case, the restoration and modernization of "Nakhimov" is even less justified.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        3. +6
          19 January 2019 10: 37
          For the security of the country EVERYTHING is needed. And the army, and the navy and VKS and much more. Only as long as we have strategic nuclear forces, I think no one will go open. However, we ourselves can be enemies. Recall the end of the 80s, beginning of the 90s .
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. 0
            19 January 2019 23: 14
            In our tradition, the Strategic Missile Forces have been adopted and aviation is also referred to the army.
          3. 0
            20 January 2019 12: 00
            Quote: 210ox
            For the security of the country EVERYTHING is needed. And the army, and the navy and VKS and much more. Only as long as we have strategic nuclear forces, I think no one will go open. However, we ourselves can be enemies. Recall the end of the 80s, beginning of the 90s .


            I absolutely agree with you.
            The worst enemy for us is ourselves.
            And knowing this, anyway, over and over again, we step on this rake. crying
        4. +8
          19 January 2019 11: 18
          Quote: Sayan
          The article is crazy nonsense, the last paragraph is generally fire - no one has ever questioned the importance and necessity of the fleet

          Did not set? And what is happening with our fleets, that the loss of ships exceeds the arrival of new ones? Moreover, financing also follows the principle of, so to speak, importance: Strategic Missile Forces, land component, airborne forces and only after that the fleet. Remind you how much say let's upgrade TARK Nakhimov? This is the 6 year and no end has yet been seen. And this USSR TARK was built from scratch in 5 years!
          So let's not talk about the fact that no one calls into question ... even here there are individuals who believe that the Russian fleet is not mandatory at all, and especially the ocean fleet.
          1. +11
            19 January 2019 11: 26
            Quote: NEXUS
            Strategic Missile Forces, land component, VKS and only after that the fleet

            What's wrong?
            Quote: NEXUS
            TARK USSR built from scratch in 5 years!

            laughing I like your promise so much good ! To compare the USSR at dawn with the Russian Federation at the beginning of the road is classss !!!
            Quote: NEXUS
            So let's not

            That's it!!!
            1. +5
              19 January 2019 11: 29
              Quote: Serg65
              What's wrong?

              Do not you understand? The fleet is funded on a residual basis, rather than being a priority.
              Quote: Serg65
              I love your promise! To compare the USSR at dawn with the Russian Federation at the beginning of the road is classss !!!

              And I like it so much when a person does not understand what he is reading ... I said that the USSR built this TARK from scratch, and we are modernizing it now. Do not you think that this is a slightly different amount of work?
              Quote: Serg65
              That's it!!!

              Here I am about ...
              1. +5
                19 January 2019 11: 53
                Quote: NEXUS
                The fleet is funded on a residual basis, instead of being
                priority
                .

                What for? What will give Russia a huge fleet? Will protect Kamchatka? Why the enemy Kamchatka? Will help capture Japan? Why do we need Japan?
                Quote: NEXUS
                Don't you think this is a slightly different amount of work?

                Of course, it seems easier to build a new one than to remodel the old one, and besides, it is necessary to remodel in the context of the loss of 60% of the plants participating in the construction of the new one!
                Quote: NEXUS
                And I like it so much when a person does not understand

                Oh, and I like how a person knows about the fleet only from the pictures, but tries to talk about the pace of construction! good
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. +8
              19 January 2019 11: 40
              What's wrong?


              Not so that landowners unconditional priority. I don’t argue that the army is both necessary and important, especially since in the absence of a normal fleet, some tasks on territories not very far from the Russian Federation can jointly resolve the VKS and the Airborne Forces.

              But there should be no absolute priority. It is necessary and the fleet to somehow finance, and the army.

              In general, there is a clever rule - if the ground forces are strong enough to make a quick defeat of the country impossible, then the Navy must be built up.

              It is a pity that we do not adhere to it.
              1. +8
                19 January 2019 12: 00
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                It’s necessary to finance the fleet at least somehow

                I'm just for it! But at the same time, I understand perfectly well that in order to build a fleet you need to invest many times more money in production associated with the slipway period! Here the Nexus was sad about the difference in construction and modernization .... 1144 (SEVEN HUNDRED Sasha!) Plants and factories throughout the Union took part in the construction of 700 Ave.
                1. +4
                  19 January 2019 14: 13
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  It’s necessary to finance the fleet at least somehow

                  I'm just for it! But at the same time, I understand perfectly well that in order to build a fleet you need to invest many times more money in production associated with the slipway period! Here the Nexus was sad about the difference in construction and modernization .... 1144 (SEVEN HUNDRED Sasha!) Plants and factories throughout the Union took part in the construction of 700 Ave.

                  For starters, you need to at least stop the collapse of what remains.
                  Often it turns out like this: we try to create new, along the way stupidly plundering the existing
                2. +1
                  22 January 2019 10: 11
                  Quote: Serg65
                  in the construction of pr.1144 participated 700 (SEVEN HUNDRED Sasha!) factories and factories throughout the Union !!!!

                  Given that in the 90s the number of industries decreased by 20 times, and it was precisely the complex technological industries, mainly the military-industrial complex, that were reduced, what are our dear colleagues planning to build with us?
                  Even if the stocks cannot be upgraded. But here R&D does not need to be carried out.
                  About the new - this is generally complete, I don’t know what, R&D is simply SOMEONE, the science of the modern, so-called elite, is not needed.
              2. +14
                19 January 2019 12: 46
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                ... It’s not so that land explorers have an absolute priority. I don’t argue, the army is both necessary and important, especially since in the absence of a normal fleet some tasks in the territories not very far from the Russian Federation can be jointly solved by the airborne forces and airborne forces.

                But there should not be an unconditional priority. We must at least somehow finance the fleet, and the army ...

                Russia is a continental power, as it were.
                Hence the priority of the ground forces. This is an axiom.
                The fact that the fleet must be developed is also an axiom.
                The fleet is the "long arm" of our foreign policy, and if the state positions itself as a power that decides global issues, and not only its own security, then the fleet develops in accordance with these global interests.
                Russia has two allies ... We have built up the power of one component, we will increase the other component - the fleet.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. +2
                    20 January 2019 00: 46
                    adequacy and mind
                    These qualities would clearly not hurt you either.
              3. +5
                19 January 2019 13: 19
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                What's wrong?


                Not so that landowners unconditional priority. I don’t argue that the army is both necessary and important, especially since in the absence of a normal fleet, some tasks on territories not very far from the Russian Federation can jointly resolve the VKS and the Airborne Forces.

                But there should be no absolute priority. It is necessary and the fleet to somehow finance, and the army.

                In general, there is a clever rule - if the ground forces are strong enough to make a quick defeat of the country impossible, then the Navy must be built up.

                It is a pity that we do not adhere to it.

                Man, the army has the General Staff, the journalists have the Union of Journalists, armed with a pen and notebook, so let's intervene proportionately in the affairs for which the professionals are responsible. hi
              4. +6
                19 January 2019 14: 26
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Not so that landowners unconditional priority.

                And he will always be, for "the boot is higher than the boot!" - this is me still in the cadet vmyashivali in the birdhouse! lol
                But seriously: the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is a land vault, which, while sharing the budget, steers the financing of the construction of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Well, would you yourself beloved, cheated, or something, while sharing the cake !? No.
                The marshals are categorically opposed to creating a Ministry of the Navy, as is the case in the United States - then don't get into the budget of the fleet! He himself will order and build what is needed. And today you can shove him a couple of Rooks and shut your mouth. About NSNF - a separate conversation! They are part of the triad ", and this is the" sacred cow "of the country's defense ... so," can't! "
                Now about your article. Thank you for your work. Here are just a lot of "yesterday" in it. So let me make a couple of remarks about ...
                1. About the role of "tribals" in the future war. During the day, ports and airfields are seized, the blockade of highways. Thus, NATO is deprived of landing points and a bridgehead for building up forces.
                2. Poland. This, with the current leadership, is serious. This can really grow in the IV Reich to march to the East. Moreover, they openly claim to be the leader of Euro-NATO.
                3. Actually, all these arguments (deployment, accumulation of reserves, footholds) are the essence of the projection of the wars that have passed on to today's realities. ("Generals always prepare for the past wars!") Back in the 80s, our General Staff concluded that the beginning of aggression is possible forces of PG, BS and DB with a subsequent increase in efforts in the directions of Ch. strikes ... That is why the concept of a rapid global strike was adopted: within 1 hour, the KRBD brought down control of the enemy's forces! Time trouble! There was no question of any mobilization and deployment: an ultimatum - either surrender, or we will finish you off! This is how the question stands today.
                4. Your rhetorical question is strong: "How to reach Tokyo by tanks?" good But no less impressive is the answer to it: "Why do we need it? What have we forgotten there?"
                5. The raising of the issue of conflict management at sea is perplexing. And what does the Pacific Fleet and Severny Zavoz have to do with it, if the USC Sever was specially created for the NSR !?
                6. With definitions, you still need to be more careful! There is no such thing as a "limited local war" - it is either limited (nuclear in a theater of operations), or local on a regional scale (APR, SEA ..) And then, your statement that no Army can cope with a submarine is true by 50 %: The ground forces include missile launchers that have a missile strike against a naval base, including those based on submarines. Then, in the old days, there was a "view" of the possibility of "boiling" the sea in the alleged / identified RBM SSBN ... So, not everything is so simple under the Sun!
                7. About the naval blockade. This is a declaration of war! And the Yankees will not be able to strike at our forces and leave, luring us into action in the DMZ or the ocean zone. In the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces and the Main Naval Headquarters, not "dumkopfs" are sitting, but secondly, there are air defense missile systems and KRBD, PLA curtains, YES with Daggers, etc. So the adversary will have enough obstacles when reaching the milestone of the task (the rise of aviation) ...
                8. Well, and absolutely the icing on the cake is your "strategic" statement-conclusion: "The priorities of military development should be revised!" - COLOSSAL !!! I propose - by telegram and directly to the Supreme Command and the Ministry of Defense from the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces! laughing
                1. 0
                  22 January 2019 20: 28
                  States are not going to fight on their territory, only on someone else's. Hence the imbalance of the army and navy, mirror to ours. We are a peace-loving power, our fleet is defensive, the Americans are offensive. As before, the imperialists use the fleet to capture, hold colonies, sometimes to support the same colonies, by mistake, considering themselves developing democracies. We have no colonies; it is enough to develop the submarine fleet as a successful version of the nuclear triad.
              5. +2
                20 January 2019 00: 45
                And now the most important thing. No one here (well, or almost no one) is arguing about the need for a strong fleet, and you can talk as much as you like about the bias of financing. What kind of programs do you propose to refuse from financing the construction of ground forces ?! Specifically: we do not need this and this in the ground forces. And with the money pledged to implement these programs, we will lay 30-40 surface ships of rank 1-2. What needs to be cut?
                1. 0
                  22 January 2019 10: 14
                  Quote: lBEARl
                  What needs to be cut?

                  It is necessary not to cut, but to soberly reason. Naval aviation is still an absolute weapon in relation to the fleet within a radius of 400 km from the coast, and an attack fleet does not need to be done for this. It remains to calculate what cannot be done by airplanes. And this is not so much.
              6. +1
                20 January 2019 12: 52
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                What's wrong?


                Not so that landowners unconditional priority. I don’t argue that the army is both necessary and important, especially since in the absence of a normal fleet, some tasks on territories not very far from the Russian Federation can jointly resolve the VKS and the Airborne Forces.

                But there should be no absolute priority. It is necessary and the fleet to somehow finance, and the army.

                In general, there is a clever rule - if the ground forces are strong enough to make a quick defeat of the country impossible, then the Navy must be built up.

                It is a pity that we do not adhere to it.


                It seems to me that you are a little wrong about the priority.
                Let's recall and turn to GPV-2020 (2011–2020).
                Of all the types of armed forces and arms of service, the Navy has formally become the main beneficiary: it accounted for more than 25% of the total planned expenditures. It is also obvious that GPV-2020 in terms of replenishment of the Navy failed both in relation to submarines and in respect to combat surface ships of the main classes.
                Here are a number of reasons:
                Instability and voluntarism of the military-technical policy of the Navy
                -The weakness of the shipbuilding base. The shipbuilding capacities that the Russian Federation possesses are limited or insufficient for many classes of ships and vessels to implement large-scale serial military shipbuilding programs, and the deficit increases as the tonnage and size of ships increase. Many shipbuilding enterprises, including large ones (Baltic Shipyard, Admiralty Shipyards), use outdated shipbuilding technologies (such as construction on open inclined slipways
                Inadequately effective cooperation with developers and manufacturers of weapons systems,
                - Revolutionary projects that were laid in the hope of their quick implementation in serial samples
                - GTE
                - and so on

                For a number of reasons, it was not possible to achieve a radical change in the equipment of the Navy with new armaments, therefore, the new GWP emphasized the ground forces.
                the reasons:
                At the end of 2017, the equipment of the Ground Forces with new models of weapons, military and special equipment is only 45%, and the newly adopted GPV-2027 is designed to eliminate this gap

                Therefore, I do not agree with you here, the Navy had priority, they simply could not realize it.

                In general, there is a clever rule - if the ground forces are strong enough to make a quick defeat of the country impossible, then the Navy must be built up.


                I agree with you, but we didn’t have really strong ground forces, not so long ago, by the way .. They seemed strong - yes, were they? Question..
                Analysis of the war with Georgia showed very unpleasant things.
                And the Air Force was on the verge of collapse, now they have just begun to take on the desired appearance, and that ... we can say at the beginning of the journey.

                IMHO: as soon as the shipyards can complete the construction, and be responsible for the deadlines, subcontractors confirm the possibility of delivering tedious quality equipment on time - the order will be increased again.
                So far, this is simply not a target waste of time and resources that must be applied elsewhere, which can be mastered in a given period of time (I hope they can, and not as OSK).

                But in general, I very much hope that Intelligence will prevail, and they will place an order for 22350 in the number of at least 5, and better 8 and will renew the 20380 bookmark. And there you look, and 22350 M will arrive in time.
                1. 0
                  23 January 2019 14: 58
                  Here are a number of reasons:
                  Instability and voluntarism of the military-technical policy of the Navy


                  And enough. About how the fleet is odd, I have many articles, there will be more, and in fact this is one of the main reasons for the situation in which we found ourselves.

                  And the fact that the navy fell down when money was poured into it.

                  But the fact that the fleet is now being strangled as a non-working tool is also wrong, and fundamentally wrong.

                  But in general, I very much hope that Intelligence will prevail, and they will place an order for 22350 in the number of at least 5, and better 8 and will renew the 20380 bookmark. And there you look, and 22350 M will arrive in time.


                  It would be great. But alas. I have a letter from Vice-Admiral Bursuka, where it is written in Russian in white - the end of 20380.
                  And one more from his deputy cap-1 Tryapichnikova, with about the same.

                  Maybe I'll write here somehow.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. +2
            21 January 2019 09: 11
            Well, the Soviet Union built. The USSR collapsed. What did the USSR do wrong? I’ll say, I fed the natsmenov and built it was not clear why the fleet in order to run in the Indian Ocean next to the American squadrons. So then the population of the RSFSR unanimously ran for jeans and chewing gum.
        5. +3
          19 January 2019 11: 27
          Yeah, like meat or food is more important.
          And since when did the fleet separate from the army?
          It’s wonderful, however, that Poseidon didn’t need a weapon for him (like, it’s enough for the Merino torpedo plane to drop on the opposite course and everything for Poseidon laughing ).
          Now the army is in the way of the fleet lol
          Hatya, I agree with one, "shekels" are never too many bully
          1. +4
            19 January 2019 11: 41
            You will be interested in how funding is distributed between the army and the fleet in the new LG. Or to whom the fleet commanders are subordinate.

            Immediately everything will be clear.
            1. 0
              19 January 2019 23: 21
              And who is subordinate to the commander of the Northern Fleet?
      2. +2
        20 January 2019 23: 34
        Quote: Tatiana
        Russia really needs an extremely developed and sufficiently quantitative submarine and surface navy. Plus aviation.

        To begin with, Russia needs a government consisting of honest, intelligent people who sincerely love their homeland. And not the panopticon that we have the displeasure to contemplate.
      3. +2
        21 January 2019 09: 07
        And let's not lie about the "typhoon", be proud of it - this is something from the category that "Soviet microcircuits are the largest in the world." The only reason why it is so big is not because it is so powerful, but because it did not work out to make a compact rocket. Of course, when better rockets appeared, there were not very many who wanted to have such a white elephant. Well, except for those who only saw him on TV. And EMNIP ran out of missiles there even before the boats were cut.

        For missile carriers, not much better - against Russians 8 - NATO has 20.


        Yes, it is shameful. For NATO, because in terms of population and military budgets, they are many times superior to us. That's just what it matters when the citizens of New York will tumble through the streets, swept away by the shock wave?
    2. +6
      19 January 2019 08: 18
      Quote: Sayan
      What does the author of this nonsense smoke?

      American sources. This genre is extremely popular there. "#Everything is gone, always."
      In general, the Russian Federation has officially participated in seven wars since its inception. Well, we are accused of participating in three more. But we do not confess.
      And none of these wars were maritime / oceanic. Even the river 8)))
      But how many young people died because of the backlog of our Armed Forces, the technical plan is not countable.
      1. +3
        19 January 2019 09: 10
        Now everything has changed, we do not have comparable on the strength and equipment of the troops of rivals on land.
        1. +8
          19 January 2019 09: 18
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Now everything has changed, we do not have comparable on the strength and equipment of the troops of rivals on land.

          Yeah ... The Chechens also initially did not look like rivals ...
          With a high probability it can bang in Central Asia. And it is impossible not to get in, the Russian "soft underbelly" will be flooded with a large flow of drugs at times. Karabakh, Crimea, Transnistria ... What the hell has changed?
          ======
          At the same time, if a fighter of the times of the Great Patriotic War were now hit by a mortar of a mortar battery, he would be able to fulfill his duties in full without training. The same mortar, the same ammunition, the same sights, the same fuses and means of determining the settings for firing ... The Defense Ministry has no money for normal equipment.
          1. 0
            19 January 2019 09: 31
            Well, in general, Russia conquered a little with the army, in 2014-2016 in the territory of one inadequate state. And the loss ratio with this inadequate has always BEGAN from about 1: 100 and further up the hill.
            With the constant superiority of inadequate numbers, both in people and in technology.
            Our army is, to put it mildly, not the same as, for example, in 2008. Let's just say that we have a solid second place in the world after the United States, and under a number of conditions and in some theaters we also spawn the United States.

            It's time to think about the "second ally".
            1. +1
              19 January 2019 09: 45
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Our army is, to put it mildly, not the same as, for example, in 2008

              Yeah. 8))))) Now almost every division or brigade has a trained tank crew that can be put on the "biathlon"
              In general, for example, even Afghanistan overtook us in the field of automation and informatization of towed artillery.
              1. +4
                19 January 2019 10: 25
                what kind of game? What does a trained crew mean? one? everything doesn’t come out from polygons. Education doesn’t stop at all.
                1. 0
                  19 January 2019 10: 54
                  If I didn’t have a bunch of acquaintances in the army, I would probably have believed ...
                  1. +3
                    19 January 2019 10: 59
                    Well, I don’t know who you stayed there of course. only after the start of the reforms I already left everyone and felt all this on myself. but I won’t argue. You have your own arguments. I have mine.
              2. +1
                19 January 2019 11: 42
                Fairy tales do not, please.
                1. +1
                  19 January 2019 14: 43
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  Fairy tales do not, please.

                  Are you sure these are fairy tales? 8)))
                  Do you believe Mr. Korotchenko?
                  "The artillery units of the National Armed Forces of Afghanistan (NAVA) have adopted a new computerized fire control system developed by Ukranian Defense Consulting (UDC).
                  According to the International Defense Review, before transmitting NBCA, the Universal Battery Fire Direction System UBLFDS (Universal Battery Level Fire Direction System) was first tested by a project management team from NATO. About 300 kits were transferred to the Afghan army, where they are currently used for firing X-NUMX-mm howitzers D-122.
                  "
                  https://i-korotchenko.livejournal.com/802620.html
                  And we have nothing like that. Expensive, therefore, "tea is not a bar, it will cost" 8)))))
              3. +5
                19 January 2019 14: 41
                Quote: Spade
                in the field of automation and informatization of towed artillery, even Afghanistan overtook us.

                Shovels! After the EMP impact, all r / e iron can be thrown into a landfill. And your favorite mortars will shoot the same at the busol, as in the years of WWII. So, everything is good in moderation. But the price of these systems differs by an order of magnitude. And the words of the unforgettable LADY: - "THERE IS NO MONEY, BUT YOU HOLD ON!" - it is necessary to engrave on the forehead of each militarist comfrey, so that in the morning, starting to shave, he could read and comprehend them with a fresh mind! bully
                1. +3
                  19 January 2019 14: 45
                  Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                  Shovels! After EMP hit

                  Well, how many "EMP strikes" have been inflicted on our positions lately?
                  And they learned how to defend themselves against these notorious blows even in the USSR.
                  1. +5
                    19 January 2019 15: 04
                    Quote: Spade
                    Well, how many "EMP strikes" have been inflicted on our positions lately?
                    And they learned how to defend themselves against these notorious blows even in the USSR.

                    Colleague! Under the USSR, they learned how to defend themselves from the electromagnetic radiation of nuclear weapons and even that did not always work (from test reports). But from an explosive EMP generator - there is no salvation. All contours from such power of induced EMF are burning!
                    Secondly, you are from the old guard, learned to polemize from the luminaries of the site: facts verified with links, respectful to the opponent, the accuracy of quotes ... And you, dear, Mayakovsky is distorted, already disgusting! - "Face to face, you can't see a face. A LARGE SEE AT A DISTANCE" ...
                    And, in-3-x, Nuclear wells, in the number of 1027 units. (if sclerosis does not change me), the Federal Republic of Germany was equipped along the border with the GDR, and not the French, as you wish to write ..
                    So sorry. hi
                    1. +1
                      19 January 2019 15: 12
                      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                      And you, dear, Mayakovsky is distorted, already disgusting! - "You can't see a face face to face. A LARGE SEE AT A DISTANCE" ... So, I'm sorry

                      What the fuck, Mayakovsky?

                      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                      But from the explosive generator of electromagnetic radiation - there is no salvation.

                      and. This is absolutely not a fact.
                      b. Destruction of the automation system does not stop firing, but only slows it down, increasing the likelihood of errors
                      c. No one will use such a generator against a target that has enough conventional HE shells
                      1. +1
                        19 January 2019 22: 20
                        Quote: Spade
                        What the fuck, Mayakovsky?

                        To blame! fool of course Yesenin, "Letter to a Woman"
                        Face to face
                        Faces can not see.
                        Big is seen at a distance.
                        When the sea is seething,
                        The ship is in a deplorable state.
                    2. +1
                      19 January 2019 18: 06
                      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                      And, in-3-x, Nuclear wells, in the number of 1027 units. (if sclerosis does not change me), the Federal Republic of Germany was equipped along the border with the GDR, and not the French, as you wish to write ..

                      8)))))
                      It’s easier to say who were not preparing to use such mines. Maybe the Spaniards?
                      The topic was so widespread in Western and Northern Europe that mentions of it appeared in the Combat Regulations of the USSR Airborne Forces. Here I specifically looked "When capturing and destroying nuclear mines installed in wells, battalion units operate ..........."
                      I don’t think that this would be necessary if everything was limited to the local section of the border strip between Germany and the GDR ...
            2. 0
              19 January 2019 10: 03
              Alexander! Dear author!
              And I agree with you. There are wonderful expressions: "Forewarned is forearmed" and "God protects the saved". Always and everywhere you have to plan based on the worst case scenario. And remember the beginning of the Great Patriotic War.
              And now, according to the comments, is that, seven pluses (for the time of my comment) for the first boorish one and nothing, unsubstantiated, comment has become the norm for BO?
              Dear Admins! I propose to write down the increased requirements for visitors with up to a year's experience in the Site Rules. Further, people are already beginning to "trim themselves".
            3. +1
              19 January 2019 11: 24
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              It's time to think about the "second ally".

              But what about the third ally-VKS? Want to say nothing? PAK DA, PAK TA, PAK DP, PSG programs ... where are these new platforms? A lot of money has been invested in the development of the SU-57, but in the normal series they already say that there will be no SU-57.
              And returning to the topic of the article ... the most interesting question is the construction of the destroyer Leader, about which the same Rogozin spoke so much and hotly. And where is at least one inherent Leader? About the projects of the new UDC, the aircraft carrier, I generally keep quiet, as well as about the submarines with VNEU. It’s only to cry ...
              1. +1
                19 January 2019 11: 42
                Carefully read, the article says about the place of the VKS and Strategic Missile Forces.
              2. 0
                21 January 2019 09: 13
                Do not declare. Not time Money there is not God knows what, given the fact that such OCDs provide a lot of information and new technologies.
            4. +1
              20 January 2019 15: 21
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Well, in general, Russia conquered a little with the army, in 2014-2016 in the territory of one inadequate state. And the loss ratio with this inadequate has always BEGAN from about 1: 100 and further up the hill.

              "Yes, write more!" Answered Suvorov. "Why should you feel sorry for them, bassoons?
              it is difficult to count if "there is nothing" and the losses of the natives are also censored.
              But you can always operate with any numbers.
              1. 0
                23 January 2019 15: 02
                Someone had "theirs" there. I didn’t take these numbers from my fingertips. Moreover, if you take that BTGr, which went there one of the first, then it was much more serious than 1: 100, I won't even write how much, you won't believe it.))))

                Ukraine is not a threat. On this dwell.
          2. +1
            19 January 2019 10: 40
            Quote: Spade
            Chechens also initially did not look like rivals ...

            just don’t have to talk about Chechens, nobody fought with them, they restored the constitutional order, and these are different things, plus both sides did money. Only soldiers fought on the front line. there is no one to fight in Central Asia either, if the Americans do not reinforce them with their troops, they themselves will not be able to cope with each other. And so yes, the ground forces of the Russian Federation - at the level of the Soviet army of the 80s, maybe only there will be a larger MANPADS, but dry another
            1. +6
              19 January 2019 10: 53
              Quote: aglet
              just don’t need about Chechens, no one fought with them, they restored the constitutional order

              You know, but "from the inside" there is no difference ... But "the big is seen from afar", isn't it? 8)))))))))))

              Quote: aglet
              there is no one to fight in Central Asia

              Let me remind you that the Americans failed to defeat the Taliban.

              Quote: aglet
              ground forces of the Russian Federation - at the level of the Soviet army of the 80s

              ????????
              Are you sure that the FAS command is enough for the Russian army to reach French Brest in a couple of weeks? Are the French again preparing wells for nuclear mines, as was the case in those years?
              I’m afraid that our army before the Soviet model of the 80th as before Beijing in reverse.
              1. 0
                19 January 2019 23: 17
                Quote: Spade
                Let me remind you that the Americans failed to defeat the Taliban

                I meant Soviet Central Asia. and the Americans didn’t fight the Taliban; in general, they didn’t fight the Vietnamese
                Quote: Spade
                Are you sure that the FAS command is enough for the Russian army to reach French Brest in a couple of weeks?

                No, of course, she will not reach Kiev during this time. I meant technical support — airplanes, tanks, and other equipment. again, not in quantitative but in qualitative composition, mainly at the level of the 80s
                Quote: Spade
                You know, but "from the inside" there is no difference ..

                a full-blown war, with the massive use of artillery, aviation, a north-south precinct, without looking at the human rights from behind the hill, at their cryo-defenders, at supposedly civilians with a knife in their bosoms — and that pale sickness to restore constitutional order, do you consider it a war?
                1. +2
                  20 January 2019 08: 52
                  Quote: aglet
                  I meant Soviet Central Asia

                  Now there is no "Soviet Central Asia". Has long been

                  Quote: aglet
                  I meant technical support — airplanes, tanks, and other equipment. again, not in quantitative but in qualitative composition

                  Do not forget, speaking about money for the army, we are also talking about effective combat training. How many modern training centers have Serdyukov promised to do there? One per district, that is, at least four. But "niasilili", apparently they spent money on biathlon (fact: two and a half years of "international games" = purchase of one Serdyukov training center). One did, and then with nightmares

                  Quote: aglet
                  do you consider her a war?

                  Exactly. They killed her. Therefore, I do not want to use bashful allegories
                  And I, when someone starts raving about buying aircraft carriers, I remember one thermal imager per regiment. Which should be turned on less often, because there are only two "balls" with refrigerant, and you can fill them only in Rostov.
                  1. +1
                    20 January 2019 10: 40
                    Quote: Spade
                    They killed her

                    they kill every day without any war. I didn’t talk about money for the army. I don’t rave about aircraft carriers. I said, the current army for technical development is at the level of the Soviet army of the 80s, only less, do you agree with that?
                    about central asia. if it was difficult for you to understand, I’m writing in detail, I had in mind post-Soviet Central Asia. and in general, what am I chewing and explaining to you all? is it difficult for you to understand? or nothing? I’m writing about simple things, in simple words, no, it’s not clear, I need to say it twice and again it’s incomprehensible. Work on yourself, read more, not only IN, do not watch TV, and you will understand more and faster, honestly
                    1. +1
                      20 January 2019 11: 01
                      Quote: aglet
                      is it difficult for you to understand?

                      Very hard.
                      For example, how does everything you say relate to a very likely conflict / conflicts in Central Asia after the Americans left Afghanistan?

                      Quote: aglet
                      I’m writing about simple things

                      And it’s absolutely not related to the topic of discussion ... And to think up for you, what does the uncle in Kiev have to an elder in a garden-fire.
                      1. 0
                        20 January 2019 17: 33
                        Quote: Spade
                        Very hard.
                        For example, how does everything you say relate to a very likely conflict / conflicts in Central Asia after the Americans left Afghanistan?

                        How do I know, I wrote about this? it’s again you’re spreading your thoughts through the tree, inventing something that wasn’t
                        Quote: Spade
                        And absolutely not related to the topic of discussion

                        that is, you finally understood that your words have nothing to do with the topic. do not produce entities
        2. +4
          19 January 2019 09: 42
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Now everything has changed, we don’t haveequal in strength and equipment of rival troops on land

          And where did NATO go, already in Narva?
          1. 0
            19 January 2019 11: 44
            There are few troops there, plus they will have to keep the sea communications behind them, or storming Kaliningrad, which — attention — we cannot hold without the Navy, at least by breaking through the corridor through Lithuania (there are forces in Russia).
            1. 0
              19 January 2019 14: 19
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              am some troops

              Poland, where did the most Russophobian country go? Romania? And when modern logistics, the whole of NATO will be very fast
              1. 0
                23 January 2019 15: 03
                And the arrival of a modern logistics-the whole of NATO will be very fast


                But this issue is not decided by the army. Surprise))))
    3. +4
      19 January 2019 10: 29
      Quote: Sayan

      What does the author of this nonsense smoke?

      yes, indeed, because we have the most powerful military fleet, fifty of some aircraft carriers, not counting hundreds of missile cruisers, landing ships, naval aviation and all. so who smokes what?
  2. +11
    19 January 2019 05: 48
    The strange question is, why does a sea power need a fleet ?! And why does a man have a left hand if he is right-handed? Both the army and the fleet are even needed!
    1. +4
      19 January 2019 06: 43
      What is more necessary for Russia: fleet or army?

      To preserve state sovereignty, the people of Russia need combat-ready armed forces, including the Ground Forces, the Navy, and the VKS. One pity, not all issues in the country are decided by the people.
      1. 0
        19 January 2019 23: 29
        Ordinary Americans greatly influence the decision-making process in the military sphere?
    2. +4
      19 January 2019 09: 22
      I will tell you in confidence that a lot of guys enter the Kremlin and the Ministry of Defense, who diligently persuade the Party that we are not only not a maritime power, but are not able to become one either.

      And they are starting to succeed.
  3. 0
    19 January 2019 06: 59
    if there is a people who believes and trusts their leaders .. then we are invincible. and the fleet and army alone won nothing. only the people.
    1. +3
      19 January 2019 10: 38
      We have been observing anxious care for the people for twenty years. Leaders do not change, more promises ...
  4. +6
    19 January 2019 07: 00
    So the author says that our fleet is much weaker than the land army. And he explains that the threat from the sea is more dangerous for us than the threat from the land. And the fleet needs to be urgently restored. Here is the main thesis of the article, is it really clear to someone?
    1. -3
      19 January 2019 08: 19
      Still how incomprehensible. Against whom to fight?
      1. +3
        19 January 2019 15: 23
        Quote: Spade
        Still how incomprehensible. Against whom to fight?

        Generally, against the "aggressor" ..., against the beneficiary who stepped on our national interests, infringed on our sovereignty and territorial integrity, etc.
        And so I would like to answer the joke.
        Epoch of struggle with moonshine. Search, the peasant find a moonshine. Policeman: - Your grandfather, the unit? -- My son.
        - Everything, grandfather, we will judge you for home brewing!
        - Then it's better for rape!
        - And why is that?
        - So the device is also available!
        Therefore, "against whom to fight" - can always "be found"!
        1. -2
          19 January 2019 15: 44
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          Generally against the "aggressor"

          And who is the likely aggressor? If NATO, and therefore the United States, does not attack, China is similar (this is based on the conclusions of the author in the article)
          Who?.
          1. +2
            19 January 2019 22: 29
            Quote: Spade
            Who?.

            Not aliens for sure!
            And about the rest ... 100% guarantees no one can give.
            But you should always be in condition! To avoid lovers of freebies, even the thought that something might break off ...
            Vaughn, the unforgettable Madeleine Oldbright am bluntly stated that Siberia is too large for the Russians to own its wealth alone ... It must have belonged to all united nations ... And history makes us draw the right conclusions ...
            So, against "whom" there is always ... Yes
            1. -1
              19 January 2019 23: 32
              With a general sympathetic attitude to your comments, I will say that Albright did not say that.
              1. +1
                20 January 2019 19: 04
                Quote: Sergej1972
                With a general sympathetic attitude to your comments, I will say that Albright did not say that.

                1. Sympathize, usually, intellectually inferior. I do not consider myself as such, I hope you too ...
                2.
                “They would very much like Russia not to exist at all. Like countries. Because we have enormous wealth. And the Americans think we own them illegally and undeservedly because, in their opinion, we are not using them the way we should. You probably remember the statement of the former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright that Russia does not own either the Far East or Siberia, "Patrushev said in an interview with the Komersant newspaper.
                https://medialeaks.ru/2306yut_albright/
                3. The following is a whole investigation of liberal bloodhounds from the "free" media. But no one can say what the top officials of the FOREIGN POLITICAL contour of our states spoke about during their one-on-one conversations! Or were the libers sitting with a microphone in Madeleine's pocket? Then it's another matter.
                4. Patrushev, I personally believe. Liberal "Dozhd" and Matzam of Moscow - not very much.
                Therefore, thanks for the "nuance", but no more.
                And the fact that the "partners" have plans to "create" the FER is a bare fact, proven by our special services. Therefore, even the "fake" is logically embedded "into the line", as the writers say.
                Best regards, hi
          2. +3
            20 January 2019 01: 08
            Who?

            If you run with your bare ass, there is someone who wants to whip nettles.
            So maybe you do not need to bare the sea borders?
            1. -1
              20 January 2019 08: 59
              Quote: VSrostagro
              If you run with your bare ass, there is someone who wants to whip nettles.

              With a bare backside, but with a body armor of modern SV and Air Force and with a large gun of the Strategic Missile Forces? Well, let them try 8)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    2. +7
      19 January 2019 08: 30
      not at all clear. quantitatively, our army is not so big. one can even say compact, taking into account our size and length of borders. further, again, the blockade is an act of aggression and definitely an occasion to start a war. the fleet is needed, of course, who would argue. but judging by the theses, the author hints at such that in a state of conflict with the states and their dogs, at least not to lose. this is utopia. all the time we forget that the time is different now. not a union. and do not need these taunts about tank troops that look great on TV. I don’t remember the sunken ships in Chechnya, but I know a lot of those who died and burned down in tanks.
      1. 0
        19 January 2019 09: 11
        Then again, the blockade is an act of aggression and is definitely a pretext for the start of the war.


        And what to her lead, you can ask? If there are no common borders with the enemy (and there are none)?
        1. +2
          19 January 2019 10: 12
          Americans remember I did one blockade. now there will be no more air attacks on Pearl Harbor.
      2. -3
        19 January 2019 10: 53
        Quote: Bull Terrier
        I don’t remember the sunken ships in Chechnya

        if there was at least one navigable river in Chechnya, and the ships would be sunk
    3. +7
      19 January 2019 09: 06
      Quote: Fan-Fan
      author and says

      laughing This is not an argument!
      Quote: Fan-Fan
      the threat from the sea is more dangerous for us than the threat from the land

      This is only in the author’s fantastic dreams! wink
      Quote: Fan-Fan
      fleet urgently needs to be restored

      It is necessary to restore, I do not argue with this, but inflate the Navy to space aisles!
      drinks
      1. +6
        19 January 2019 09: 12
        And who offers up to the cosmic limits? In my opinion, at least up to our own numerical composition of the year, this way of 97, adjusted for the normal condition of the ships, and preparation - it would be just great. And new aircraft.

        Are you against?
        1. +11
          19 January 2019 11: 01
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          at least until our same numerical strength of the year that way 97

          in 97-m +/- we had ave.1144-3pcs, 1143-2pcs, 1164-3pcs, 956-16pcs, 61-4, 1134B-4, 1155 / 55.1-13-1135-19-159 belay ), 1171-7pcs, 775-17pcs, 12321-7pcs, 11322-3pcs, 1239-2pcs, 1234-22pcs, 1241-42pcs, 1124-30pcs.
          And so, Alexander, as you can see at the time of the 97 year, anti-submarine ships of different projects (71 units) and MRK + RK (86 units) prevailed in the Russian Navy, the composition of the RKR + TARKR is almost the same, TAVKR minus 1 unit, the destroyers dropped out.
          And if you take on 97, then the modern Navy should give parity RTO! Destroyers + BOD will be replaced by frigates, IPC corvettes .... what's wrong?
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          and training

          The Navy is switching almost entirely to a contract. The contract also involves preparation.
          1. +1
            19 January 2019 11: 47
            And if you take on 97, then the modern Navy should give parity RTO! Destroyers + BOD will be replaced by frigates, IPC corvettes .... what's wrong?


            For example, the fact that no one is rushing to replace the BOD and destroyers with frigates, and the MPK is not even planning to replace corvettes - in general. 20380 and 20385 are no longer mortgaged, and will not. There are no new projects at the stage close to the final.
            Although rumors of a massive repair and modernization of the Albatrosses this year have gone, but they are old and few of them.
            1. +5
              19 January 2019 12: 58
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              For example, the fact that no one is in a hurry to replace BOD and destroyers with frigates

              We have already talked about production, it’s not frying pies in the market.
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              20380 and 20385 will no longer be laid, and will not be

              What will be? How much I am aware of the 14 boxes I will build in and under construction, and another 9 at the stage of signing the contract.
              1. 0
                19 January 2019 17: 13
                In the ranks:

                Baltic:
                Guarding
                Savvy
                Boyfriend
                Persistent

                Pof:
                Perfect
                Loud

                In construction:

                At the Northern Shipyard:

                Zealous
                Strict
                Agile - 20385
                Thundering - 20385, launched and already almost finished, this year must pass the Navy.

                At NEA:

                Cutting
                Hero of the Russian Federation Aldar Tsydenzhapov

                Everything. More they do not lay.

                I have a letter from Vice Admiral Bursuk where he writes in plain text that this series will NOT be built anymore.
      2. +1
        20 January 2019 01: 18
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        the threat from the sea is more dangerous for us than the threat from the land

        This is only in the author’s fantastic dreams!

        More dangerous is the wrong word. But if you put it differently?
        The probability of force pressure from the sea is high.
  5. +4
    19 January 2019 07: 00
    Today, the issue of choice between the army and the navy has survived.
    1. +3
      19 January 2019 07: 02
      Tomorrow, with "our" leadership, the question will be raised: what is needed for the army or the Russian Guard?
      1. +4
        19 January 2019 08: 31
        both. in the Union the question of the uselessness of explosives was often raised?
  6. +4
    19 January 2019 07: 01
    The first — an invasion by land into Russia from the West is currently technically impossible.

    It is most likely and this is what Russia is preparing for, as evidenced by the location of the Russian Army.
    Yes, and the whole story says it.
    1. +1
      19 January 2019 08: 33
      it was and is a priority and will be. Now the Western direction is more relevant than ever. local conflict is possible at any time. and there’s a thin game. afraid or not from another continent to fit into it.
    2. -1
      19 January 2019 09: 13
      Where do enemies invade us from? What territory?
      1. +2
        19 January 2019 09: 49
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Where do enemies invade us from? What territory?

        these paths and territories have been known for a thousand years. What changed? Nothing.
        1. +1
          19 January 2019 11: 51
          What has changed is that when trying to get together and invade the Russian Federation, most of the Europeans will freeze to death in the dark, and the most stubborn will begin to glow in the dark from radiation.

          There is no single force capable of invading the Russian Federation, there is no territory large enough for the deployment of invading troops.

          NO TECHNICAL OPPORTUNITY TO ORGANIZE AN INVASION IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION, NO AT WHOM.

          So see?
          1. +1
            19 January 2019 14: 24
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            What has changed is that when trying to get together and invade the Russian Federation, most of the Europeans will freeze to death in the dark, and the most stubborn will begin to glow in the dark from radiation.

            There is no single force capable of invading the Russian Federation, there is no territory large enough for the deployment of invading troops.

            NO TECHNICAL OPPORTUNITY TO ORGANIZE AN INVASION IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION, NO AT WHOM.

            So see?

            it is not clear: about the impossibility of the WWII, everyone in Europe shouted.
            1. 0
              19 January 2019 17: 14
              Then everything was different, there were no nuclear weapons, there was no "one third" of Russian gas in the European energy balance. The pace of operations and the range of weapons were somewhat different.
          2. +4
            19 January 2019 15: 36
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            There is no single force capable of invading the Russian Federation, there is no territory large enough for the deployment of invading troops.

            Alexander! Well, the same is impossible! For the sake of decency would you at least familiarize yourself with the concept of the Pentagon about the beginning of the modern land war! Why do you always miss the stage of a massive strike by conventional means on control bodies, storage bases, communications centers, critical production centers ...
            Well, read the same Ivashov. The old man correctly sees the problem, because he has been engaged in her whole life in the General Staff.
            But after MSU is applied, they will start looking for ways of invasion ... to regroup and disembark landings ...
            In this situation, we need to either preempt them, or reciprocate "kindness", as before the German offensive on the Kursk Bulge.
            BUT!
            1. +1
              19 January 2019 17: 15
              This does not negate the need for a territory for the invading army.
              I categorically do not deny the possibility of an aerospace attack on the Russian Federation, or a strike from the sea.

              But not by land - by land at this historical stage will not work.
      2. 0
        19 January 2019 09: 50
        From the Baltic States, Ukraine, Belarus and Finland
        1. 0
          19 January 2019 11: 51
          The invasion of Belarus and Finland.

          How cute.)))
          1. +1
            19 January 2019 12: 16
            Belarus has a smaller military budget than the poor Balts. They are actually a clean field for NATO.
            And Finns belong to the EU, and the EU from the Lisbon Treaty is a military alliance
            1. +1
              19 January 2019 17: 17
              The Belarusians have a Big Brother behind their backs, who can give a teme with an unexpected course angle.
              The Belarusians are at least equipped troops, which even Poland cannot defeat, but even the whole of NATO can win the necessary time
              1. 0
                19 January 2019 17: 23
                Big Brother, this is exactly the front that you do not want to see in any way. Here are the directions of attack
                And the budget of the Belorussians for the army is such that no equipment will go anywhere, air defense will not turn on, and so on. All equipment eats money in batches for their maintenance. And judging by his political tricks, Lukoshenko may also go to meet NATO tanks with bread and salt
              2. 0
                19 January 2019 21: 08
                even the whole of NATO can gain the necessary time

                And why not immediately against the invasion of aliens? And yes, who told you that there someone will win something? Kiev shared information?
      3. +6
        19 January 2019 10: 18
        but let’s look carefully at the western borders. landscapes have changed there? if you remember the advance of the Wehrmacht began over almost 3000 km of borders in three directions. has something changed since then?)))
      4. +9
        19 January 2019 11: 01
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Where do enemies invade us from? What territory?

        From the Swamp area!
        1. 0
          19 January 2019 11: 51
          Well, for this kind of getting ready.
        2. +2
          19 January 2019 11: 59
          it’s easier to crush them if you don’t listen to the liberal liberals, hi, Serenka hi
        3. +2
          19 January 2019 15: 41
          Quote: Serg65
          From the Swamp area!

          good This is the most likely invasion base! Yes
          And, perhaps, the "non-brothers" will be set on under the liberal hooting!
  7. +5
    19 January 2019 07: 51
    What is more necessary for Russia: fleet or army?

    How to choose the left leg more important or the right?
    Why "legs"? So the Army and the Navy are the support of any state., Of course, if it has access to the seas.
    1. +1
      19 January 2019 10: 34
      The article refers to the fact that amid the increased potential of the ground forces, the state of the fleet is critically low, despite even new warships.
  8. +9
    19 January 2019 08: 24
    I read your opus, Alexander, as Andrei Nikolaevich from Chelyabinsk likes to put it, yawning!
    To attack Russia from land, this land itself is needed

    To attack Russia, you need not land, you need an army! Is there such an enemy army? The US Army does not count from the word at all! The US will never start a war with a potentially equal adversary ... NEVER !!! In 1904, England and the United States attacked Russia with the hands of Japan, fostered by them, in 1914 with the hands of Wilhelm, financed by the Broadway Group, and Hitler, who had been raised by the Anglo-Saxons in 1941. Is there such an army on the Russian borders now? Recently I was, but rested in Syria, although the one behind Cupid should not be discounted ... with Germany we also had a Non-Aggression Pact.
    In my opinion, there is only one threat to the sovereignty of Russia - this is stirring up discontent in Russian society and preparing the next revolution. This theme is now being actively pedaled by both the left and right. The Anglo-Saxons played this trick both in the 17th and 91st! So the question arises ... why fight with Russia in a classical way, when you can throw a bunch of candy wrappers (take it all, I'll print it for myself) and in Russia there are many who want to arrange a "Revolution of Hydration" ?! This is a cheaper and most importantly more effective way of waging war!
    1. +7
      19 January 2019 08: 28
      Russia needs both the army and the navy. At the same time, both the army and the fleet must be balanced! Tens of thousands of tanks, hundreds of thousands of aircraft, hundreds of ships - this is the last century!
      1. +1
        19 January 2019 09: 18
        Well, now the fleet is VERY balanced (((
        1. +5
          19 January 2019 11: 02
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Well, now the fleet is VERY balanced (((

          Have you already finished building the Russian Navy ??? what
          1. +5
            19 January 2019 11: 52
            I? Yes, God, with you.

            Our fleet did not really begin to build properly.
      2. +3
        19 January 2019 09: 44
        Quote: Serg65
        I read your opus ....

        Quote: Serg65
        Russia needs both the army and the navy. At the same time, both the army and the fleet must be balanced!


        Strange you argue, then you write about the author's opus, then you agree that the army and the navy must be balanced. The author, in fact, writes about this that for the most part, the fleet was scored and it needs to be restored, but as for the balance in the fleet, it simply does not exist ... basically, some RTOs are building (in fact, a mosquito fleet) and at the end of the year they report that The Navy received so many ships, the numbers are good, but if you start a detailed analysis, then the tendency of turning the once mighty Soviet fleet into a mosquito is well traced. What goes against the adopted naval doctrine "The document sets ambitious tasks for the Russian Navy: maintaining the second place in the world in terms of power fleet, large-scale naval construction and the creation of a group of aircraft carriers. "
        1. +7
          19 January 2019 11: 35
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          Strangely, you reason, you write about the author’s opus, you agree that the army and navy must be balanced

          And what's so strange? If you delved into the author’s article, then you should understand that the author proposes to reduce funding for the army (they won’t climb us from land because there is no land) and increase funding for the construction of the fleet, because we have nothing to capture Tokyo! What do you understand the balance of the army and navy?
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          USSR's once-mighty fleet in a mosquito

          what You will probably curse me if I tell you that the Soviet Navy was powerful in quantity, but not in power! Moreover, the mosquito component in the USSR Navy was simply huge!
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          What goes against the accepted marine doctrine

          Where do you see this cut? The fleet has just begun to build!
          1. +2
            19 January 2019 12: 33
            Quote: Serg65
            If you delved into the author’s article, then you should understand that the author proposes to reduce funding for the army (they won’t climb us from land because there is no land) and increase funding for the construction of the fleet


            Here we need to look from a different angle, we have a naval doctrine - a document signed by the GDP with the goals and objectives of the development of the Navy until 2030. And in order to solve these goals and tasks, funding is needed, the question of where to get the funds is of course open ... but with the fact that the war is like in 1941 with hordes of tanks and infantry in our vast country (1st place in the world in terms of territory as not how) won't, that's for sure. There will be either a quick global strike or some kind of local conflict. Returning to the topic of the Navy, if we need a fleet (and we need it) Russia is a maritime power, after all, perhaps it makes sense to cut some programs from the funding of the army and send it to build a fleet, no one talks about a fleet equal to the United States, but at least with capabilities that are not inferior Chinese or Japanese fleet, otherwise it is a shame to have a fleet that is inferior to the same Japan with which we still do not have a peace treaty (after all, we must take into account that we have many directions and the number of modern ships scattered across the fleets is very small). You can write a lot about ships and their capabilities and it will take a lot of time .... it is better to familiarize yourself with the cycle of articles by Andrey from Chelyabinsk, "A sad look into the future ...." It is not for nothing that the cycle is so called and it is chewed in more detail there.
            1. +5
              19 January 2019 13: 20
              Quote: Aleksandr21
              Returning to the topic of the Navy, if we need a fleet (we need it)

              And who is arguing? Of course you need!
              Quote: Aleksandr21
              Russia is a maritime power, as it is possible, it makes sense to cut back some programs from the financing of the army and direct it to build a fleet

              My dear friend, the construction of the fleet is not only the assembly of the hull on the slipway, but also a huge number of related enterprises! The fleet essentially began to build 10-11 years ago, they did not begin to wait for the restoration of the production base, and there was no longer any time. We decided to quickly import at least a little saturate the fleet with ships, it turned out at 30% .... just did not have time! Now the production base is being restored, as the factories are launched and our ships are being built, here at least read Andrei, at least do not read, and you won’t jump above the bells!
              Yes, try to figure this out yourself, without biased prompts!
              hi
            2. -5
              19 January 2019 17: 15
              Quote: Aleksandr21
              there is more and more chewed.

              It is not chewed that the population will chew. Since the scammer cannot understand a simple thought in any way, Russia is a poor country with a poor population. And even a tenth of his Napoleonic plans, she simply will not pull.
        2. 0
          22 January 2019 11: 13
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          The document poses ambitious tasks for the Russian Navy: maintaining the second place in the world in terms of fleet power,

          It's all cool, but only at whose expense?
          Our companies in fact do not order anything Russian. Separate military industrial complex from the civilian sector can not exist, because experimental parties, lead ships, it all comes at a 10-fold cost. There is no activity in the economy - there is no army and navy.
          1. 0
            22 January 2019 12: 19
            Quote: goose

            It's all cool, but only at whose expense?
            Our companies in fact do not order anything Russian. Separate military industrial complex from the civilian sector can not exist, because experimental parties, lead ships, it all comes at a 10-fold cost. There is no activity in the economy - there is no army and navy.


            Naturally, at the expense of the state. Of course, realistically assessing the situation, about "the second place in the world in terms of the power of the fleet, the construction of aircraft carriers and other things" and say nothing, but the document contains goals and objectives for the Navy until 2030. And in order to fulfill them, it is necessary to change the current situation with the construction of ships: they build ships with a large displacement for a very long time, they order very few ships (not MRKs) + the fleet that has come from the USSR is becoming obsolete and there is no replacement, there may just come a moment when only the mosquito fleet will remain and to perform tasks in the far sea zone, we will have (for example) 8-9 ships scattered across all our fleets ... and then either change the goals and objectives in the naval doctrine, i.e. in fact, recognize the failure of our fleet and its capabilities, or correct the situation and look for funding somewhere. But where the state will take money is an interesting question ...
      3. +2
        19 January 2019 10: 17
        Yes, for several decades now they have been rockets
    2. +3
      19 January 2019 09: 17
      The internal enemy is a separate topic, and I do not argue with that.

      I just, perhaps unlike you, are a little aware of the tracks for military budgets, and I really do not like that. To what result these graters slowly lead - already lead, and not lead tomorrow or the day after.

      Well, the example with Turkey and the Su-24M fully shows that they can start shooting at us in the open. And it will not always be possible to "drive off" with sanctions on tomatoes and tourism.

      That's all, it's strange that you don't understand this. No normal country will really be at war with Russia. But a lot of people may want to fight "a little bit" without raising the stakes to a big Rubilov, and precisely because we have short hands to punish them in this case in proportion to what they have done.

      You yourself understand what a full-fledged navy gives, so your irony looks strange, to say the least.
      1. +6
        19 January 2019 11: 20
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        It's just that I, perhaps unlike you, are a little in the know

        wassat Oh come on !!!!
        Graters for defense orders have always been !!! And under the bloody Nicholas, and under Stalin, and under Kukuruznik, and what graters were Comrade Ustinov you did not even dream of !!!!
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        the example with Turkey and Su-24M shows that they can start shooting at us in the open

        Nobody is protected from provocations and this is not a reason to start a war!
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        But a lot of people may want to fight "a little bit" without raising the stakes to a big Rubilov, and precisely because we have short hands to punish them in this case in proportion to what they have done.

        laughing Thank you, Alexander! You cheered me up !! Especially this one ...
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        But to fight "a little" without raising the stakes to a big rubilov

        what What is it like???
        Firstly, any "little" in our direction will definitely end with Armageddon! Secondly, in the light of your article, what is this attack from sea directions called "a little bit" ???
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        What gives a full-fledged Navy you yourself understand

        A full-fledged Navy is such a vague meaning that I don't even know what to tell you! If you are going to capture Tokyo in a "little" war, then the fleet will not help you in any way!
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Your irony looks weird

        Not at all!
        1. +3
          19 January 2019 12: 00
          Firstly, any "little" in our direction will definitely end with Armageddon! Secondly, in the light of your article, what is this attack from sea directions called "a little bit" ???


          Well, let's. You are for Russia, I am for America.

          My goal is to punish the greyhounds of Russians for their independent policies, without getting involved in a war.
          1 step. We deploy large forces of fighter and anti-submarine aviation on the Aleuts, in Alaska. bay, we derive a connection from one AV, a pair of UDC with anti-submarine helicopters, six or seven destroyers for air defense and three multi-purpose submarines.
          Step. 2. We throw in the region the top five additional ships of the US Coast Guard.
          Step 3. Closer to the middle of the northern delivery, we break into the Russians into the territorial waters on the BOKHR ship, capture some bulk carrier, and hijack it to Alaska, immediately launch a wildly hot company in the press " The US is forced to intervene. "
          4 step. We are waiting a week and swearing at the UN, in the absence of a response, we hijack another ship under the same pretext.

          Your move, Sergey.
          1. +2
            19 January 2019 12: 39
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            We deploy large forces of fighter and anti-submarine aircraft in the Aleutians

            To do this, you need to restore the airfields in the Aleuts, while you will restore them, I will deal with the airfields in the Kuril Islands.
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            to Alaska. the bay, we withdraw the connection from one AB, a pair of UDC with anti-submarine helicopters, six or seven destroyers for air defense and three multipurpose submarines

            You will have to enter them in May-July, before you will not be given a cold.
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Closer to the middle of the northern delivery, we break into the Russians in the thermal water on the BOHR ship,

            Any approach of a foreign warship to the economic zone is already of interest to the border service, and even approaching the ter. waters will inevitably entail the presence of a Russian warship-observer ..... your greyhound breakthrough into the Russian ter. waters will be "slightly" suppressed by the duty ship Navy, duty PSKR and duty aircraft link, welcom!
            The second part of paragraph 3 and paragraph 4 can cross out!
            P.S. Yes, I almost forgot .. your security guard should be deployed in 250-300 km from Kamchatka, because in Alaska Bay it often storms and your planes do not have time to help your Bohr ship!
            hi
            1. +1
              19 January 2019 17: 27
              I now lived in Chukotka and roughly imagine what our Coast Guard can do there. With PCDP having an 12-knot stroke.

              Airfields in the Kuril Islands You at least do as much as you need, there are still needed airplanes, pilots, and pilots who can fly over the sea, and not just combat crews from the VKS, taking into account how everything is done, ama are ahead.

              Duty ships of the Navy in those parts to put it mildly not rich.
              I will list the PFD pervorangi, which in principle are on the move:
              RKR 1164 Variag
              EM 956 Fast
              BOD 1155 Admiral Panteleyev
              BOD Admiral Tributs
              BOD Admiral Vinogradov
              Plus, two corvettes, and a little ISCs, IPC, boats, etc.

              These forces can be diverted simply by passing a pair of destroyers from Japan to the north. Varyag is already asking for repairs, by the way.

              The BOHR has two high-speed and well-armed ships capable of keeping up with amerskim patrolmen - the Eagle and Dzerzhinsky.

              They are usually in bases, they have a large fuel consumption. So amers have every chance to get ahead. On-duty aviation there can only be in Yelizovo and Anadyr, by the way. And in Anadyr they really do not.
          2. +2
            19 January 2019 13: 03
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            My goal is to punish greyhounds for independent politics

            You were mistaken already at the stage of defining a goal and setting a task. smile No one ever starts hostilities with the aim of "punishing the greyhounds ...". Seizing territories, exterminating the population, obtaining reparations, writing off debts, gaining access to resources ... but not revenge.
            So you have already lost. hi
            1. +1
              19 January 2019 17: 28
              Strikes on Syria than you think were?
              1. +2
                19 January 2019 20: 26
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Strikes on Syria than you think were?

                Whose?
                1. 0
                  23 January 2019 15: 08
                  American
                  1. +1
                    23 January 2019 17: 16
                    Well, it’s obvious - to demolish Assad and take control of the territory. Revenge has nothing to do with it. Pure business. Amers generally have only one reason for war - money.
                    1. 0
                      23 January 2019 18: 36
                      Neither the Tomahawks strike on Shairat, nor the last attack, nor the conceived third attack would have led to the displacement of Assad, and in general had no influence on the situation in Syria, and would not have affected it.

                      This is a psychological operation whose goal is to show the whole world that the Russians will not be able to protect their clients from the wrath of the United States.
                      1. +1
                        23 January 2019 21: 03
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        This is a psychological operation whose goal is to show the whole world that the Russians will not be able to protect their clients from the wrath of the United States.

                        Specifically, these attacks, of course, carried such a load. Although, their main meaning (most likely) was to check the air defense system: organization, characteristics, parameters ... Any correctly planned operation implies the achievement of several goals. But, I must say, by this moment the fighting had been going on for several years. And they did not begin for the sake of self-affirmation.
    3. +1
      19 January 2019 11: 59
      Quote: Serg65
      for Russia's sovereignty there is only one threat - it is inciting discontent in Russian society and preparing another revolution ...

      I agree with you, but the question is, is the people still dissatisfied with the government or has the wrong people got the power?
      While the government itself is doing everything to displease it.
      Quote: Serg65
      when you can throw a bunch of candy wrappers (take it all, I'll print it for myself) and in Russia there are many who want to arrange a "Guidance Revolution" ?!

      money alone is not enough, we need inspiration, an idea. I think that the people will not be happy with the swag, the revolution will suit those who have been torn from the trough.
      By the way, there is a theory that all of today's negative on the internal life of Russia with the discrediting of GDP is not accidental, a new figure-Kudrin is being promoted. And whose friend is Kudrin? -Right, Putin. Always betray their own, strangers do not betray.
      Quote: Serg65
      This is a cheaper and most importantly more effective way of warfare!

      I think the same way. hi
      1. +5
        19 January 2019 12: 46
        Quote: Silvestr
        Is the people still dissatisfied with the government, or has the wrong people of power got it?

        laughing Well, the people were dissatisfied with the government ALWAYS! As my grandmother used to say ... people are what a drawbar, where you turn there and it came out! The question is who turns it? All the "discontent" began in 14 and this "discontent" had such familiar ears !!!!
        Quote: Silvestr
        By the way, there is a theory that all of today's negative on the internal life of Russia with the discrediting of GDP is not accidental, a new figure-Kudrin is being promoted

        laughing Sylvester, there is a theory that the earth is flat and stands on three pillars! Do not consider Putin a fool!
        1. +2
          19 January 2019 13: 12
          Quote: Serg65
          Do not consider Putin a fool!

          this is even out of the question! But does he always know everything? The king is made by the retinue.
      2. +5
        19 January 2019 12: 53
        Quote: Silvestr
        revolutions suit those who are torn from the trough.

        Is it true? From what feeder did Marat, Danton and Robespierre, Lenin and Trotsky, Castro and Che Guevara be torn? Your desire to originalize is not supported by facts. smile
        With Kudrin the same story. The theory sucked from a finger. This horse is no longer lucky.
        1. +1
          19 January 2019 13: 24
          Quote: Monos
          From what feeder did Marat, Danton and Robespierre, Lenin and Trotsky, Castro and Che Guevara be torn?

          you dug very deep! hi
          But the leaders of the color revolutions did not adhere to their principles. The world has changed, people have changed
      3. 0
        22 January 2019 11: 26
        Quote: Silvestr
        Is the people still dissatisfied with the government, or has the wrong people of power got it?

        Hitler said so that his people were not worthy of the Germans. They did not understand and did not support genius.
    4. +3
      19 January 2019 12: 37
      Quote: Serg65
      Why fight with Russia in a classic way, when you can throw a bunch of candy wrappers (take it all, I'll print it for myself) and in Russia there are many who want to arrange a "Revolution of Hydration" ?! This is a cheaper and most importantly more effective way of waging war!

      You can have a tsar with a snuffbox, you can build a guard in square on Dvortsovaya, you can release "commissars in dusty helmets", you can stir up perestroika and privatization ... They are very persistent and consistent, our "friends." How to deal with this, I have no idea and I'm afraid that sooner or later they will achieve their goal. Alas...
    5. The comment was deleted.
      1. +2
        20 January 2019 00: 17
        Liaodong Peninsula and Port Arthur, chopped off by Russia from Japan
        . Can be more? When did they become Japanese?
  9. -2
    19 January 2019 08: 40
    What is more necessary for Russia: fleet or army?

    Vks
    1. +1
      19 January 2019 09: 18
      Well, this is not discussed, as the article says.

      But the level below it is necessary to think properly.
      1. -1
        19 January 2019 12: 38
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        But the level below it is necessary to think properly.

        What is there to think, of course the fleet
  10. +1
    19 January 2019 09: 37
    I did not fully understand why we would not have a formal pretext for the beginning of land combat operations in the event of a blockade, but let us assume that they really will not exist.
    The question will arise. What is more important: money, the state of the economy, your pocket in the end, or your reputation? The answer, in my opinion, is obvious - money. This means that you can arrange shooting at the blockade forces, even if they are far from us. And here it is possible to use not only the aforementioned "Calibers", but also air-launched missiles, the question of which we have in sufficient quantity is hardly subject to doubt.
    You can also use the available small number of "Daggers" to hit one or two aircraft carriers / missile cruisers, if they are within range.
    That is, if we take money in the choice between reputation and money (breaking the blockade), then losses among American sailors are inevitable. I'm not sure that the Americans, who are confident that their ships are unsinkable, will calmly survive this. And if we take into account their internal political confrontation, then such losses will most likely be unwound by both sides of this confrontation in attempts to blame each other.
    This means that the issue of the blockade is completely solved with the help of the Aerospace Forces, with which we are all right. If necessary, it is possible to implement a scenario excluded by the author for some reason: the use of ground forces. To issue an ultimatum: "Either the end of the blockade, or a ground operation in Norway, we give a response in half an hour or an hour."
    1. 0
      19 January 2019 10: 30
      They will hand over this Norway without hesitation. And then what? Another ultimatum?
      Which adjacent country will be next?
      1. +5
        19 January 2019 11: 39
        Quote: wellaut
        Which adjacent country will be next?

        Portugal!
      2. 0
        19 January 2019 13: 51
        And then the discrediting of NATO, as an organization that promises to protect its members. Who wants to stay in it, join it, after this surrender of Norway? And together with NATO, the discrediting of the USA, as the leading country of the bloc. It is unlikely that Americans will so easily go to such image losses, having that alternative.
    2. 0
      19 January 2019 12: 02
      VKS cannot solve the blockade issue, for them everything at sea is very similar to each other marks on radar screens, that a blockade ship is one of them, and that a Norwegian trawler cannot be distinguished closer than 1000 km, and even with 1000 km read only aircraft, and only on the signature of the included radar. And that is not always.

      In addition, they can not touch the court under the flag.

      What are our reasons for intervention?
      1. 0
        19 January 2019 13: 49
        What are our reasons for intervention?

        I indicated - no. But money, as you understand, is more expensive than the grounds. Now, if you were the leader of the country and choose between reputation and money for the economy? I personally would take the latter.
        In general, the grounds can lead. There are even two options for this see, which can be successfully combined.
        The first. We declare that this is a violation of the national interests of the Russian Federation, we declare it at our domestic legislative level as aggression against us. We proclaim our adherence to the UN Charter, in particular the article 51 and begin to act as we can.
        Second. Under any flag yes will be suspended vessels. Consequently, this is aggression against the countries to which they belonged. We carry out diplomatic work, conclude agreements on mutual actions against aggression, begin to act.
        I cannot answer you on the technical side due to lack of knowledge. I'll ask, however. What will the trawler do among the blockaded ships? By the way. And satellite intelligence will not help here? What kind of aircraft is on the airfield, you can tell by the pictures how I imagine this thing. The ship is more like that.
    3. +2
      19 January 2019 23: 32
      Operation against Norway - Pyrrhic victory will be. After that, in the West, all voters will be ready for any expenses to protect themselves from aggressive savage Russians.
      You can also use the available small number of "Daggers" to hit one or two aircraft carriers / missile cruisers, if they are within range.

      they don’t shoot at aircraft carriers. not able in principle
  11. +1
    19 January 2019 09: 45
    Looking at what is happening, the country most of all needs officials and their protection.
    1. +3
      19 January 2019 10: 03
      Quote: AleBors
      the country most needs officials and their protection.

      Zolotov’s army is not inferior in size to ground forces, it does not have only the Strategic Missile Forces
      1. +1
        19 January 2019 11: 39
        And most importantly, against whom is this army?
      2. +4
        19 January 2019 11: 41
        Quote: Silvestr
        Zolotov’s army is not inferior in number to ground forces

        Do you have anything to fear for the Rosguard?
        1. +2
          19 January 2019 11: 42
          Quote: Serg65
          Do you have anything to fear for the Rosguard?

          why should I be afraid of her? I comply with the laws, pay taxes hi
          1. +3
            19 January 2019 12: 05
            hi
            Quote: Silvestr
            I comply with the laws, pay taxes

            Especially!
          2. 0
            19 January 2019 23: 29
            someone wants to, the laws will change.
            and those dissatisfied with the change of laws will find out why the guard is needed.
        2. +3
          19 January 2019 12: 01
          rather, they are afraid of a necessary command, for it, in the campaign, is inadequate
          1. +2
            19 January 2019 12: 48
            laughing Roma, did you drink beer with him?
            1. +2
              19 January 2019 13: 05
              I am not an enemy of my health
      3. +1
        19 January 2019 23: 44
        But this is not true! And, by the way, the FSVG also includes purely police formations such as private security.
  12. +5
    19 January 2019 10: 02
    You can't say either-or. It is necessary that there be "and".
    1. +2
      19 January 2019 14: 42
      You can't say either-or. It is necessary that there be "and".
      That's right, and the fleet needs an army, and if more is possible.
  13. +1
    19 January 2019 10: 27
    Quote: Sayan
    What does the author of this nonsense smoke?

    You apparently have very little idea of ​​the real capabilities of the modern fleet of Russia ...
    I would say that they, these capabilities of the Russian fleets, are somewhat exaggerated.
    And as a small example of inefficient spending of funds - project 22160 from the Zelenodolsk plant.
    We are in a crazy pit of backwardness from the leading world maritime powers.
  14. +2
    19 January 2019 12: 33
    The author’s assessment of the current situation is more or less true, but there are questions.
    1) Where is the money to create and then feed the "dream" fleet.
    2) The Russian army increased land and influence tenfold, and how much the fleet gave.
    3) Where is the resource (human, material, temporary) used in the army or navy more efficiently.
    4) The development of missile forces, aviation, space can cover a significant part of the naval tasks while solving ground forces and is it not logical to invest there.

    PS
    I also love the fleet, but truth is more expensive.
    The fleet should be, but feasible.
  15. 0
    19 January 2019 12: 34
    "The state, which has one land army, has one hand, and which the fleet also has, has both hands."
  16. -5
    19 January 2019 13: 55
    article sucks
    neither quantitative nor qualitative (technical characteristics) for general armament, separately for armament of military branches ....
    about the fleets
    the data are given already since 1983 ........
    1. +1
      19 January 2019 14: 33
      In the first place, you need to write an article yourself) We will appreciate your not sucks))
      1. +1
        20 January 2019 00: 20
        thanks for the suggestion ... I'll think about it

        my reaction to the next libel (how bad things are with us .... we'll die tomorrow) is connected with my service at the KTOF in the 80s ......... the author undertakes to compare the events that hell knows when he told retired rear admiral with the current state of affairs in the troops ....... no specific figure or well-known fact about system errors in the Moscow Region or Rosoboron .... where is the raisin? where is the meat? ........ yes my child will write more and better ....
        check sources sometimes ......... it is useful to not look like an idiot
  17. +1
    19 January 2019 14: 21
    To attack us by land or by no one, or from nowhere, the threat of an attack on Russia by land is almost non-existent, or is retaliated by the fleet (Baltic), or is not serious (Ukraine).


    apparently unimaginably stupid people are sitting in the US Army spending a lot of money on dragging NATO's ground military infrastructure close to our borders, so without the binoculars you can consider our border towns.
    If, for example, for Russia, Crimea, as an unsinkable aircraft carrier, is needed to repel aggression from the sea, then for the United States, the US missile defense base was a priority for deploying land in Crimea on land.

    90% of the threat of an attack on Russia is currently an attack by land. While for example, for the United States or China, the threat of an attack from land is almost zero. Therefore, both countries are throwing significant forces into developing the fleet.
    The most crazy idea of ​​the author is that the threat of an attack on Russia by land from the side of NATO troops deployed in the Baltic states is countered by the Baltic Fleet of Russia.
    They remove part of the threat of an attack on Russia by land from the Iskander complexes in Kaliningrad which are by no means sea ships.
  18. 0
    19 January 2019 15: 03
    For the security of the country, everything is needed. And the army and navy. But for this we need a socialist path of development. Because the oligarchic-capitalist system does not need either the army or the navy. In the event of war, they will all land on imported airplanes and fly to their islands, villas, and yachts.
    1. -1
      19 January 2019 23: 27
      has been. badly finished.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. +1
    19 January 2019 16: 00
    China is still technologically dependent on the Russian Federation
    - Do not overestimate the role of our technologies for China ...
    1. 0
      23 January 2019 15: 11
      I do not overestimate. They still have a lot of our equipment, and one that they cannot do and cannot serve without us, they have our reactors at nuclear power plants, and a lot of things.

      In December, we taught them how to make blades for turbines. Not everything is so cool in China.
  21. 0
    19 January 2019 16: 49
    In many ways you can agree, but not in everything. As for the protection of their shores, the decisive role is played by aviation (not necessarily registered with the Navy, why is the VKS worse?), As well as a coastal-based missile defense system, air defense missile systems. It is not for nothing that the Americans themselves formulated the concept of "restricted access zone" at their expense. In addition, deplets and "gunboats with calibers" will be exceptionally effective there. As for the actions in the far sea zone, here the author is absolutely right! If anything happens, we will have nothing to answer but a nuclear strike. How critical the naval blockade will be in the distant sea is a moot point. After all, our main trade partners are Europe and China. In addition, exports can be carried out through intermediary countries - not very profitable, but not critical ... As for the fleet of the far sea zone, the question is probably not this, not the survival of Russia and passive defense - here you can really do without it! The question is that a superpower should be able to reach out to anyone, around the world, and protect its allies there, for example. Otherwise, what kind of superpower is she? That is why China is now actively building a fleet. The problem we have is that the forces are very much not equal: the US 327 million + EU 500 million .. Or China - 1,37 billion people .. And Russia - 146 million! Less than Pakistan, Indonesia or Brazil, not to mention India! It's hard being a middleweight to get into the ring against the heavyweights! And we go out and often, by some miracle, give them a mouthful!)
  22. +3
    19 January 2019 16: 49
    Can we start with a simple one: we will raise the drowned dock and repair it, and only then will we begin to release herds of aircraft carriers into the pastures?
  23. 0
    19 January 2019 17: 40
    Quote: o201

    It seems to me that it’s time, figuratively speaking, to defend Russia from the military. They are capable of ditching it in much the same way as they ditched the USSR.

    Yes, there is a kind of Latin Americanization. There, security officials often go astray in a corporation and begin to steer the state. Generally unsuccessful. They cannot show economic victories to the population; as a result, adventures begin. Like the ones that the Argentine junta staged around the Falklands. As a result, the lost generation and the economic crisis.
  24. 0
    19 January 2019 17: 46
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    VKS cannot solve the blockade issue, for them everything at sea is very similar to each other marks on radar screens, that a blockade ship is one of them, and that a Norwegian trawler cannot be distinguished closer than 1000 km, and even with 1000 km read only aircraft, and only on the signature of the included radar. And that is not always.

    Sorry, but who can solve the blockade? It can only be resolved by defeating the enemy’s fleet, which we can’t afford - we won’t get so many ships. Maximum we can counterplay with the help of pl. From and it is necessary to build and fight on communications.
    1. 0
      19 January 2019 23: 26
      not necessary.
      it is entirely possible that no one will go to a mass blockade by the whole fleet.
      And now, such a blockade between Spain and England can be organized in Europe, and Japan in the Far East.
      Even the states are not needed
  25. 0
    19 January 2019 18: 18
    Strange reasoning. As if we have a military budget like the United States. Well, we can’t lead an arms race with them on an equal footing. Therefore, priority is given to the development of precision weapons and their carriers. In fact, any grouping of ships at any point on our borders, the VKS will be destroyed without problems.
  26. +2
    19 January 2019 18: 54
    A full-fledged fleet is urgently needed. But you need a level admiral Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov. Unfortunately there is neither one nor the other.
    1. 0
      19 January 2019 22: 15
      300 years ago, the Russian fleet emerged from the enthusiasm of the tsar and his associates. Now we have ships, and shipyards, and sailors. We do not start from scratch.
  27. +1
    19 January 2019 19: 57
    THAT ONE CAN BE ATTACKED FROM SUSHI HITLER HAS ALREADY PROVIDED LONG TIME, FROM WHEN SO MUCH CHANGED. YES NO ONE WILL CONTACT NUCLEAR POWER. This is all nonsense.
    1. 0
      19 January 2019 23: 23
      have you heard of the appearance of nuclear weapons?
      this is after Hitler
      1. 0
        20 January 2019 15: 27
        Quote: Avior
        have you heard of the appearance of nuclear weapons?
        this is after Hitler

        In September 1944, at a meeting between US President Franklin Roosevelt and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in Hyde Park, an agreement was concluded that provided for the likelihood of the use of atomic weapons against Japan.
        The Fuhrer was still alive. (German nuclear weapons project, too)
        1. 0
          21 January 2019 09: 23
          Did I write about the project? I wrote about weapons.
          Yes, and this decision has nothing to do with the problem under discussion.
  28. 0
    19 January 2019 20: 09
    We need both more and as much as possible. But the liberals have a knife in one place and they answer S. Shoigu and Moscow Oblast there is no money for you but you hold on. And budget money is stolen and transferred to the West in banks, for ones you love. How can you take care of the defense of a country where you are not going to live? and do not care about the rest.
  29. 0
    19 January 2019 20: 22
    Alexander Timokhin, you submit this article to Gerasimov and Siluanov, and then we will discuss them by their answer. Regards and best wishes.
    1. 0
      23 January 2019 15: 13
      Have fun))).

      Especially about Gerasimov. They have almost turned the Navy into "Marine units of the ground forces."
      1. 0
        24 January 2019 13: 14
        What's so funny? I'd like to listen to an article by Gerasimov. As for the naval parts of the SV, you're right. After submission of the fleets to the districts, you recall good times under the leadership of the high command.
  30. +1
    19 January 2019 20: 31
    No matter how many ships they have, it is important how many anti-ship and anti-submarine missiles we have.
    1. 0
      19 January 2019 23: 22
      on boats they will bring them to the aircraft carriers at night, so that no one would see
      1. -1
        20 January 2019 01: 41
        In the future, boats will no longer be needed - we will leave the INF Treaty and our designers will make ballistic missiles capable of destroying the ASG and submarines within a radius of 5000 kilometers from our shores - the anti-ship and anti-submarine Vanguard.
        1. -1
          20 January 2019 01: 49
          tried it already, it didn’t work out ....
          1. 0
            20 January 2019 16: 21
            Because in the 90s everything turned off.
            1. +1
              21 January 2019 09: 17
              still would not turn off, there was not enough money to devour, and cigarettes at the factory were distributed to the advanced workers at the end of the Union.
  31. 0
    19 January 2019 21: 04
    Interesting thoughts from the author.
  32. +1
    19 January 2019 21: 11
    China we type white and fluffy. Yes, China is carrying out the creeping annexation of Siberia now. And from there we withdraw the most combat-ready units to the European part. It is possible that now China has no political desires to seize Siberia by military means. But after 5 years, they can safely go there in order to protect their population.
    1. 0
      19 January 2019 23: 21
      China will not climb as long as Russia has effective nuclear weapons. But it is.
      1. 0
        19 January 2019 23: 42
        China also has it. Well, as it were, 140 million people are not 1.5 billion.
        1. 0
          20 January 2019 00: 14
          attaching.
          and what does this cancel in what I wrote?
          1. 0
            20 January 2019 00: 32
            Accepted loss threshold level! If it’s simpler, then having learned that China occupied almost everything before the Urals in a couple of days without using yao. What is the likelihood of our management making a decision on the application?
            1. +1
              20 January 2019 01: 11
              tactical weapons will be used very quickly against the Chinese troops, if necessary.
              there are empty spaces with a very meager road structure.
              even without nuclear weapons to destroy it is a trifling matter.
              on foot they will go for months to the Urals.
              and why do they need it?
              All they need is delivered to them anyway.
  33. +1
    19 January 2019 22: 18
    What is more important for the tank, right caterpillar or left? You can read the article title in about the same way.
    We need an army and a fleet! No other way ...
  34. +1
    19 January 2019 22: 53
    We need a balanced army and a sufficient fleet. And for this we need the videoconferencing and strategic nuclear forces. Now I would focus on attack helicopters, the Su-35 (referring to the Su-57 and MiG-41) and bombers. And he would deliver new Chrysanthemums to the troops at an accelerated pace - in fact, missile tanks with the air defense function, Tornado-S with Solntsepeki. Well, electronic warfare, of course, is beyond any competition. Particular hope for Penicillin and Warrior with ESU TK.
    1. 0
      20 January 2019 01: 44
      I would bet on strike UAVs, MLRS systems and air defense - missile defense systems, as well as MTRs.
  35. +1
    19 January 2019 23: 20
    The author’s arguments, in my opinion, are not serious, but the final conclusion is correct.
    Why are they not serious?
    Because no one will start a land war against Russia for a thousand reasons, starting from the fact that the land war pulls a large number of victims, and the West is always trying to avoid it with all its might, and ending with the fact that those who have the initiative will always choose the means advantageous to the attacker.
    For the ground forces there is a certain parity — why should the West start a war on unfavorable conditions? On the contrary, the United States will struggle to avoid a direct land war with Russia as much as possible.
    And if we take into account the new US nuclear strategy, which is based on the fact that Russia is ready in the event of a war in Europe to use tactical nuclear weapons against one or two cities in the expectation that the USA will not start a global nuclear war because of this (and for the return she simply doesn’t have a similar strike - thanks to Obama, who destroyed the nuclear Tomahawks. So far there is no possibility, since Trump has already adopted a plan to modernize nuclear forces with the development of a nuclear missile with a longer range than Tomahawk, and while they are developing a missile, it is seeking to use for this purpose, for a limited retaliatory nuclear strike, submarines with adjustable blast power), and Europe, without US support, will surrender, then start the West a land war in Europe - the top of the absurdity. And they obviously will not do such stupidity on their own initiative.
    NATO, if it starts a war, will use the means in which it has an overwhelming advantage — primarily diplomatic and economic isolation, for which, in addition to economic methods itself, the Navy will probably be used to blockade the borders of Russian land fighter aircraft and force pressure on those who do not want to participate in the economic blockade, or both options together. Of course, a suitable pretext will be determined in advance and work will be done with their voters — now the possibilities have greatly expanded, the authority of the Russian leadership in the eyes of the western citizen-voter has fallen dramatically.
    Russia is not the DPRK, with such a blockade, many of those who have an influence on the processes in the leadership of Russia and who know how they will react to the loss of money that can no longer be repaid from the budget, as it is now, will suffer greatly.
    And the population level will drop sharply, and, accordingly, the support of the country's leadership.
    Of course, this blockade will cost the West dearly, some will be crushed by force, some by direct military force, but with many, especially with China or India, they will solve the problem with different discounts and preferences in trade. If they have the opportunity to solve the problem with money without sacrifices or with minimal sacrifices, for their part, they always choose the path of money, obviously and in this case they will do the same.
    And here the most important issue is the availability of a fleet for counteraction. But he is not and is not planned, the author is right. hi
    1. 0
      23 January 2019 15: 15
      Because no one will start a land war against Russia for a thousand reasons, starting from the fact that the land war pulls a large number of victims, and the West is always trying to avoid it with all its might, and ending with the fact that those who have the initiative will always choose the means advantageous to the attacker.


      The point here is not whether someone can start a ground war against Russia, but what songs we sing in Moscow when dividing up budgets. This is where the "continental power" stands in full growth, Kuropatkin would be envious.
  36. +1
    20 January 2019 00: 29
    Need rocket space troops. The war, if it does, will be of a different type, not as civil in the neighbors, or in North Africa.
    Everyone knows this, everyone understands it, but you don’t want to believe, but you have to.
    1. +1
      20 January 2019 01: 12
      the USSR had enough nuclear weapons. did not help, toilet paper shortages in stores turned out to be stronger
      1. -1
        20 January 2019 01: 18
        Do you have stress with toilet paper? - go to the more practical for 5 - 7 rubles. roll.
        p \ s
        get rid of hemorrhoids An excellent tool and not expensive. I recommend, I got rid of it myself, before that, nothing helped ...
        1. +1
          20 January 2019 01: 51
          Do you have tension with the Russian language?
          learn, come in handy ....
          1. 0
            27 January 2019 08: 06
            When there is nothing to answer rudeness? But it’s too late to educate you ...
            1. 0
              27 January 2019 16: 48
              when there is nothing to answer, the transition to personality begins.

              Do you have stress with toilet paper?

              But it’s too late to educate you ...
    2. 0
      20 January 2019 01: 54
      An aerospace single-stage aircraft is needed: it was needed — it took off from the airfield, took faulty satellites from orbit — from 200 to 40000 kilometers and worked it out and returned to the ground, it took — it cleared near-Earth space from space debris, it took — it became a space bomber capable of bombing from orbit anywhere in the world - with fusion planning blocks, it took - brought orbiting combat satellites and platforms, Tu 2000 froze in the 90s, but I think that in the mid-20s to return to this project
  37. 0
    20 January 2019 01: 49
    "... with a few dozen battalions from their composition, one inadequate adjacent state can be completely nightmare ..." It seems that this should be done because already!
    1. 0
      20 January 2019 02: 01
      you would have a saber and a horse, yes to the line of fire, the fighter would not have a price.
      what is "Pyrrhic victory" you know?
  38. +1
    20 January 2019 02: 00
    I disagree with the lack of land for a land invasion, the potential can grow gradually, as a result of "pumping" from both sides.
    But the probability of force impact from land is very low, well, NATO does not like real massacre with significant losses.
    But to try to "push" without leading to an active conflict, this is the author's rights, they can, in this the Anglo-Saxons are strong, shit without risking.
    So it is necessary to develop the Fleet, today it is a "weak link".
    I do not agree only with the appetites for the volume of construction, and the economy will not agree.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. 0
    20 January 2019 19: 24
    Ask a question to anyone: what is more important for Russia - the army or the navy? Any person to whom such a question will be asked will confidently answer
    Any person will surely answer - the Russian people. There were the army and navy of the Poles and the French and other Europeans who fell under Hitler .... You see. I myself - 15 years fleet, 13 - army. This is about the navy and the army. But without Russian courage, understanding that he is fighting for a just cause ... The Great Patriotic War needs to be studied. By the way, everyone there was a nationality, and they won. Everyone was - the Russian people!
    Yes, I didn’t read the article and comments ... I expressed my opinion. So sorry ...
  41. 0
    20 January 2019 20: 21
    Who was the author of the article going to trade with during the war? Kam there transportation by sea and from which countries? The author confuses the Second World War and the future.
  42. +1
    21 January 2019 06: 34
    Wow. I applaud.
    The only question. But what about the strategic surface fleet? Do we need ocean-going ships in a large number of ships, or is it better to focus more on coastal ships?
    Well, a thought. If so, then we need to develop cargo and passenger submarine fleet... To make communication with "clockwork" territories all-weather, all-season and less vulnerable. By the way, no one has such a thing?
  43. 0
    21 January 2019 08: 59
    Any navy is destroyed by aviation. The rest does not matter.
    And where does the author get that Russia itself will not have to break through the road to Transnistria tomorrow?

    The military transport fleet is again needed solely in the interests of the army expeditionary corps.
    1. 0
      23 January 2019 15: 17
      And where does the author get that Russia itself will not have to break through the road to Transnistria tomorrow?


      Isn't it easier to pierce her assault from the sea? Go after all closer at times.
  44. 0
    21 January 2019 18: 32
    The NATO fleet problem is divided into the problem of an aircraft carrier or surface component and the problem of an underwater component. If we have 60 MiG-31K on duty, the problem of the surface component will be solved taking into account the presence of the Bastions and Iskanders. Smaller vessels will receive the attention of the X-31AD. So you need to put on duty these necessary forces of non-nuclear deterrence so that nothing moves around Europe.
    To combat submarines, you must have a valid EGSONPO and means to destroy submarines. Those. satellites of the Tundra, Liana, ANPA Cephalopods, aircraft Tu-142, Il-38, Be-12 with 91RT on these and other carriers, operating in a single network-centric information field. TSU is issued to the nearest.
  45. 0
    22 January 2019 09: 47
    Which hand is needed - right or left?
  46. 0
    24 January 2019 19: 16
    Russia needs smart and non-thieving people to rule the country, then both the Navy and the Army as a whole will be as it should
    1. 0
      25 January 2019 21: 28
      From the heart, plus, sorry do not give more to put. And so, right off the tongue. hi
  47. +1
    29 January 2019 08: 37
    Timokhin again writes about the ephemeral tasks of the fleet and even about the uselessness of the land armies .... the pearl was especially struck by the mythical Baltic fleet, supposedly capable of something in the meager water area and narrowness of the throat of the Gulf of Finland, 70 km in the throat!
  48. 0
    20 February 2019 21: 41
    This is a strange question. Probably the author wanted to ask a question such as: "What is more important than the fleet or ground forces?" And all this is the Russian army. Which includes the fleet and the ground forces and the Strategic Missile Forces and the Aerospace Forces and sapper units, etc. etc. Here is the concept of "fleet", what should it be? And what should be SV? And the videoconferencing? These are all variables that make up the RF Army. In one historical period we strengthen one thing, something weakened until better times. This is dialectic! Nowhere can you be equally strong, where there will be weakening.
  49. 0
    18 February 2020 19: 43
    The fleet has geopolitical significance, how many submarines we have with nuclear weapons, how many ballistic missiles can be placed even on one submarine, and how many can be placed on a BZHRK and boats, and submarines can go across the entire ocean; Europe towards Japan by land. The calibers can fly to Syria even from a submarine, in a submerged position Britain is our "sworn" friend, and he, as the flow of the sea state and America, is good food for thought.
  50. 0
    25 October 2020 12: 52
    At the same time, the West obviously cannot form the same single political space to the west of our country, which Hitler had in 1941. This means that it will not be able to deploy a single invasion group.

    All this reasoning is in isolation from the political structure of countries at different periods of time.
    Is there among the developed countries of the "West" one headed by a dictator (!) - an adventurer, easily ready to sacrifice a large part of his fellow citizens for his ambitions? Obviously not.
    And the analogies with Nazi Germany or Napoleonic France (the latter, by the way, did not set the goal of capturing the Republic of Ingushetia, it is worthwhile to study the previous events a little) do not correspond to reality.
    With the same success, one can recall Batu Khan, who just managed to conquer Russia and subdue the Horde for 200+ years.