Military Review

In Russia, a decision was made on materials for the wing MC-21

279
The topic of problems in the Russian aircraft industry today is being actively discussed after the publication that production associations do not receive the necessary composite materials from the USA and Japan to create the MS-21 wing. The topic was continued in the form of a statement by the head of the United Aircraft Building Corporation Yuri Slusar.


In Russia, a decision was made on materials for the wing MC-21


The head of the KLA noted that a decision had already been made regarding the future parameters of the wing of a medium-haul Russian passenger aircraft. The wing will be created from domestic composite materials.

Earlier it was reported that the KLA could abandon composites and create a metal wing for MC-21. However, this would lead to an inevitable change in the configuration of virtually the entire fuselage.

Slyusar noted that work on the creation of domestic analogues of Japanese and American composite materials has been conducted since 2014. Leading industry experts from Rosatom, VIAM, scientists from Moscow State University, and specialists from a number of private companies are involved in this work.

Yury Slyusar quotes the press service UAC:
These solutions are in the process of transition to serial production, the relevant samples are being tested, their introduction into the MC-21 program will be implemented step by step after the completion of the main certification tests as part of the overall import substitution program.


At the same time, Slyusar added that the KLA plans to appeal against the decision of the American and Japanese suppliers to refuse to fulfill their contractual obligations.
Photos used:
UAC
279 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Magic archer
    Magic archer 10 January 2019 17: 39
    +55
    I just watched the plot about it. The metal wing is a weighting of the structure! And rollback to the past .... Here you have the creation of an airplane in collaboration with someone. But we also do spare parts for the Dreamliner, but I didn’t hear something due to sanctions, we stopped supplying them ...
    1. Pivot
      Pivot 10 January 2019 17: 41
      +23
      Yes, they will find titanium, but so far we have nowhere to take carbon.
      1. tap
        tap 10 January 2019 17: 50
        +33
        We must ask Chubais
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 10 January 2019 18: 04
          +8
          Quote: zapfen
          We must ask Chubais

          http://www.atomic-energy.ru/news/2018/06/07/86488
          Already at Rosatom.
          1. Atilla
            Atilla 11 January 2019 00: 01
            +4
            They flew by. But where is Putin's import substitution? Ah, how bad it turned out.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 11 January 2019 07: 30
              +6
              Quote: Atilla
              But where is Putin's import substitution?

              In the article by reference

              Quote: Atilla
              Ay how bad it turned out

              I agree. Be careful next time.
            3. Piramidon
              Piramidon 11 January 2019 15: 25
              +4
              Quote: Atilla
              Ah, how bad it turned out.

              You with your post are really bad. It seems like a cheap stuffing.
            4. Sergio
              Sergio 11 January 2019 16: 39
              +1
              Grandfather Aya yayay shake your beard.
            5. Lighten
              Lighten 12 January 2019 14: 42
              +2
              M I update the embassy official. It. Release is outdated
        2. zloybond
          zloybond 10 January 2019 18: 09
          +32
          Firstly, our Nano-genius Chubaty had to create a new composite 5 times already. And secondly ... are our military aircraft also being built from imported composites ???? It turns out that our planes will stop building at any moment, just give a reason for the mattress?
          1. Tarhan
            Tarhan 10 January 2019 23: 54
            0
            It turns out our planes at any time will stop building

            What happened to the Su-57.
        3. den3080
          den3080 10 January 2019 20: 18
          +22
          About Rusnano ...
          I once saw an interview with Chubais on what the structure he leads is engaged in.
          He formulated quite clearly. I will not quote, but I will convey the meaning.
          “We invest in promising projects. And then, when they enter the launch phase (plant, production), we sell them to interested investors ... "
          So asking Chubais to demonstrate some “nanobolt” or supercomposite is a waste of time.
          Red Chub laid straws while arranging for his beloved this quite satisfying, warm and cozy sinecure.
          Ponder and understand.
        4. groom
          groom 12 January 2019 13: 28
          0
          Do not mention the devil in the sou.
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 10 January 2019 19: 06
        +20
        Quote: Pivot
        while we have nowhere to take carbon.

        Che, seriously nowhere?
        The opening ceremony of the Alabuga-Fiber plant for the production of carbon fiber was held in the special economic zone Alabuga. The total project cost is 4,2 billion rubles. The plant plans to create up to 250 jobs. The company became 16 resident, which opened in the territory of the SEZ "Alabuga".

        The construction of the plant began in the 2012 year, the technical launch was carried out in the 2014 year. This is one of the most modern and high-tech enterprises in Russia, which will produce modern industrial material. Carbon fiber (carbon) is used in the space, aircraft construction industries, in the construction of roads and bridges.

        Alabuga-Fiber is a joint project of the Composite holding and Rosatom. The capacity of the enterprise is at least 1,7 thousand tons annually, with a potential of up to 2 thousand tons. This fully covers the needs of the Russian market, whose capacity is currently 500 tons.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 10 January 2019 22: 23
          +14
          Quote: NEXUS

          The construction of the plant began in the 2012 year, the technical launch was carried out in the 2014 year. This is one of the most modern and high-tech enterprises in Russia, which will produce modern industrial material. Carbon fiber (carbon) is used in the space, aircraft construction industries, in the construction of roads and bridges.

          The launch of the plant took place in 2014. Now is the year 2019. Those. The plant has been operating for 4 years, annually produces 1,7 thousand tons. During operation, it produced 6,8 thousand tons. The capacity of the Russian market is 500 tons per year. For 4 years, 2,0 thousand tons.
          Where is 4,8 thousand tons? And why do we continue to buy carbon abroad?
          Fooling our brother, oh fooling!
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 10 January 2019 22: 28
            +10
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            And why do we continue to buy carbon abroad?

            Apparently because they had already signed purchase contracts from Western manufacturers, BEFORE the plant was started up.
            It can be assumed that the quality of our carbon fiber is worse ... as a version.
            Although it is not clear to me from which hangover to buy imported, if we have been manufacturing our own for 5 years.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 11 January 2019 12: 00
              +1
              Quote: NEXUS
              And why do we continue to buy carbon abroad?

              Apparently because they had already signed purchase contracts from Western manufacturers, BEFORE the plant was started up.

              But both the Americans and the Japas also signed these contracts. Or, they can be terminated, but we can not?
              Quote: NEXUS
              It can be assumed that the quality of our carbon fiber is worse ... as a version.

              Unfortunately this is not a version.
              And your hurray-patriotic post from "yesterday, 19:06" is meaningless.
              Just don't think I'm gloating. Not at all.
              I, like you, "It is insulting for the state." But do not wishful thinking. This position is lulling.
          2. Pivot
            Pivot 10 January 2019 22: 55
            +15
            I want to disappoint you, the carbon wing is not made from the same carbon from which fishing rods are sintered in China, you need slightly different components and the fiber itself is not simple and most importantly the impregnation is completely different, if the carbon fiber was learned to get the right thickness, then glue and preserving varnish is a big problem, we generally have a failure in synthetic materials. I remember PTZ sculpted metal fenders and hoods for a long time, I somehow met with the chief designer of the year 2008 and we talked about this ugliness, he told me that there are no manufacturers in Russia ready to supply us with hoods and wings made of ABS plastic, and as a result, they bought this line for the plant and began to produce it themselves, and here we are talking about carbon fiber.
            1. mac789
              mac789 10 January 2019 23: 36
              -5
              The problem with "glue" and "varnish" is easily solved with the help of some kind of mother ... At least for kilometers ... ... Damn, I can't upload a photo from my phone am
              1. prosto_rgb
                prosto_rgb 11 January 2019 02: 03
                +5
                Quote: mac789
                The problem with "glue" and "varnish" is easily solved with the help of some mother ..

                Are being decided
                just do not pass on the quality parameters presented in the aircraft industry
                1. mac789
                  mac789 11 January 2019 07: 19
                  +1
                  It’s being decided. In the widest range of requirements. And as I said - at least linear kilometers. With a minimum amount of marriage and at a sane price.
                  1. AnderS
                    AnderS 11 January 2019 15: 37
                    +3
                    It’s being decided. In the widest range of requirements.
                    Yeah. I agree. Only such a tiny condition is necessary. Which consists in the fact that if the person in charge / authorized to solve this problem, in case of not solving this problem, will go to the felling for 10 years. But this is not about today's Russia and not about its "effective" managers
                    1. mac789
                      mac789 11 January 2019 22: 58
                      +1
                      Conditions ... Everything has been decided for a long time. The site does not allow uploading photos from the phone. Made on the basis of decisions forty years ago. If not older ...
                  2. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 12 January 2019 01: 36
                    +1
                    Quote: mac789
                    It’s being decided. In the widest range of requirements. And as I said - at least linear kilometers. With a minimum amount of marriage and at a sane price.

                    Are you saying that our "effective managers" did not specifically take our completely conditioned carbon, but took from the Americans and the Japanese? Did I understand correctly?
                    1. mac789
                      mac789 12 January 2019 02: 19
                      +2
                      I want to say that our carbon can be made cheaper and higher quality than now.
                    2. Grigory_78
                      Grigory_78 12 January 2019 10: 14
                      +2
                      And what do you think, managed to ditch almost the entire domestic industry? It is easier to buy overseas, albeit at exorbitant prices, than to work with a domestic manufacturer. Such managers are still above the roof.
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 12 January 2019 22: 21
            0
            How where - exported, orders for the year ahead.
      3. lopvlad
        lopvlad 10 January 2019 20: 57
        +2
        Quote: Pivot
        Yes, they will find titanium


        Of course they will find it, but at a more expensive price, similar to how they found gas in the Ukraine. But only titanium, unlike carbon "from ... on and sticks," cannot be created.

        And we already have "carbon"

        are at the stage of transition to mass production, relevant samples are being tested


        so everything goes according to plan.
        1. Pivot
          Pivot 10 January 2019 22: 58
          +1
          Yes, even at a more expensive one, but the planes will not stop producing this, and as a result, we will pay this expensive price when flying these planes from one Russian city to another, and not on our MS or YAKs, or whatever they call them,
          1. lopvlad
            lopvlad 11 January 2019 16: 17
            +3
            Quote: Pivot
            and in the end, we will pay this expensive price when flying these planes from one Russian city to another


            Do you naively think that the West would not even sell Ukraine carbon to us so that we mass-produce the MC-21 and replace them with American Boeings and compete with them also on the world market?
            1. Pivot
              Pivot 11 January 2019 16: 26
              +1
              And what does Ukraine have to do with it?
              1. lopvlad
                lopvlad 12 January 2019 14: 27
                +3
                Quote: Pivot
                And what does Ukraine have to do with it?


                despite the fact that restrictions on the supply of "carbon" are served under the guise of sanctions for Russia's actions in Ukraine.
                1. Pivot
                  Pivot 12 January 2019 23: 27
                  0
                  Well, this probably will not be believed in kindergarten.
                  1. lopvlad
                    lopvlad 14 January 2019 20: 17
                    0
                    Quote: Pivot
                    and they won’t believe in kindergarten.


                    liberals in Russia pretend they believe.
                    1. Pivot
                      Pivot 15 January 2019 07: 36
                      0
                      Well, you understand what to pretend and believe completely different things. Fortunately, our population is not so stupid as to react to such stupid things. And the liberals will die in torment and burn in hell for treason.
      4. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 11 January 2019 23: 37
        +2
        They may even find titanium, but they can’t process it as AVISMA. Rather, they know how, but very expensive ...
        So here "not everything is so simple." In addition, their airliners still fly freely along Russian corridors to China and Japan ...
        There is also something to think about, but apparently there are other levers, and you can still hold on to these - let them bring money for now.
        1. Alf
          Alf 12 January 2019 16: 28
          0
          Quote: Vlad.by
          but apparently there are other levers,

          What kind ?
    2. t-4
      t-4 10 January 2019 17: 53
      +27
      And bring Redhead here!
      Anatoly Borisych!
      Let him tell us why the MS-21 is being assembled from enemy materials, what Rosnano is doing and where the money is. am
      1. the most important
        the most important 10 January 2019 18: 31
        +25
        Quote: t-4
        m Rusnano is engaged and where money is gone.

        Have you ever heard anything about the development of Rusnano ??? And about the success of Skolkovo ??? So I personally only heard about the theft and stupidity of the leadership of these projects. We can draw a simple conclusion that if there are no developments, then there was no task to develop them. Just stupidly stealing .... that's the whole conclusion.
        And composites need their own. and by example, show China what could happen when designing a new joint aircraft to lay only its materials in it. Although .. this is so clear to everyone ... but decisions are made by completely different people ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 10 January 2019 18: 39
          -6
          Quote: the most important
          So I personally only heard about the theft and stupidity of the leadership of these projects.

          From Navalny? It was he who was trying to expose Rusnano. Unsuccessfully.
          1. the most important
            the most important 10 January 2019 18: 43
            +22
            Quote: Spade
            From Navalny?

            And besides Navalny, are you still listening to something? Watch the well-known video from the New Year's corporate event. What other disclosures are needed? And the report of the auditor of the Audit Chamber on the verification of Rusnano is also very interesting. But many people know how to ulce.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 10 January 2019 18: 46
              -8
              Quote: the most important
              And the report of the auditor of the Audit Chamber on the verification of Rusnano is also very interesting.

              Well, and what is in this report? Well, except for the deepest misunderstanding of why such companies are being created. 8)))
              1. the most important
                the most important 10 January 2019 19: 05
                0
                httpshttps: //youtu.be/xcAmZwRJIQM: //youtu.be/xcAmZwRJIQM
              2. Grigory_78
                Grigory_78 20 January 2019 09: 43
                0
                Why are these kinds of companies being created - do you mean the utilization of budget money?
          2. GibSoN
            GibSoN 10 January 2019 21: 31
            +3
            From Navalny?
            But does Navalny personally keep you awake? For you personally, what is the difference from whom? Do you really need the essence or the checkers?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 10 January 2019 22: 29
              -2
              Quote: GibSoN
              Do you really need the essence or the checkers?

              Street question !!!!!
              Here people work, often saving lives, as in the situation with the development of heart valves. And you, damn it, with your associates and Navalny are ready to trample their work in shit just because your company Chubais does not like it.

              Do you really need the essence? Or "what's the difference"?

              You know what that reminds me of? I harass Russia with Western media. Because the local elites do not like Putin. When the facts and essence do not really matter ...
        2. VIT101
          VIT101 10 January 2019 18: 44
          +13
          Quote: the most important
          Have you ever heard anything about the development of Rusnano ??? And about the success of Skolkovo ??? So I personally only heard about the theft and stupidity of the leadership of these projects. We can draw a simple conclusion that if there are no developments, then there was no task to develop them. Just stupidly stealing .... that's the whole conclusion.


          Yes, not enough of our regulatory bodies. Just something: the prosecutor's office, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, the TFR. Now another ONF. It would be necessary to create a couple more.
      2. Fevralsk. Morev
        Fevralsk. Morev 10 January 2019 18: 52
        +13
        Chubais netrozh !!!! He is from the president’s team, but he doesn’t scatter personnel
    3. Irokez
      Irokez 10 January 2019 18: 06
      +4
      Quote: Magic Archer
      But we also do spare parts for the Dreamliner, but I didn’t hear something because of the sanctions, we stopped supplying them.

      As long as the dollar is strong, it will continue.
      Here, after all, everything in the complex works both economics and politics, and social sphere, as well as general development with authority in the world. Pull one direction and the other will weaken, and so on, such as closing one hole in the body and then another appears and so on until it is completely exhausted.
      It is necessary to beat the enemy with his own methods of control and add his own asymmetric ones for which he does not have asymmetric or standard protection.
      Of course, world cooperation cannot be completely abandoned, but since we can do avionics for the military, engines, corps, and so on from our own, then we must continue to pull ours and master someone else's, for knowing how they treat us (the Russians, the Orthodox, and the most rebellious people) will always spread rot and destroy on all fronts, and this must always be taken into account as the prime factor.
      This is another lesson to all of our state. and nat. programs (and probably also necessary) because you can’t live like that anymore, and who will continue to be tried with confiscation (the article must be entered into the Criminal Code).
      To begin with, make these planes for yourself and make a discount on fuel because you have your own fuel and you can level up competition in domestic transportation in the country with competing liners, and then, by agreement with other countries, agree not on international ones (you need to certify them), but on contractual flights and routes between the respective countries parties to the agreement. Here, irrespective of foreign sanctions, one can even fly to Iran, North Korea, or even fly through all neutral territories without any problems.
      Something like that.
      1. Alf
        Alf 10 January 2019 20: 15
        +3
        Quote: Irokez
        It is necessary to beat the enemy in his own ways

        There are no fighters, there are "partners".
        1. Grigory_78
          Grigory_78 20 January 2019 09: 56
          0
          A sparring partner is also a partner. But the goods can be lost.
    4. Hole puncher
      Hole puncher 10 January 2019 18: 23
      -8
      Quote: Magic Archer
      The metal wing is a weighting of the structure! And a rollback to the past ...

      Like the use of domestic carbon fiber.
    5. NEXUS
      NEXUS 10 January 2019 18: 29
      +9
      Quote: Magic Archer
      So much for creating an airplane in collaboration with someone.

      But the effect of sanctions worked. We cut supplies, and we began to move in order to produce what we purchased ourselves. In other words, they start to produce from us what was previously purchased in the West, only after the weighty slap in the mouth of suppliers. And in this context, I consider this ban and the refusal to supply Japan and the USA to be a very positive moment, which will accelerate our production of these materials.
      1. Aleks2048
        Aleks2048 10 January 2019 18: 51
        +2
        And in this context, I think this ban and the refusal to supply Japan and the USA are a very positive thing,

        Sorry, but they chose a bad moment. It's about money! Which, oddly enough, we need.
        But I agree with you regarding what you had to think first with your head, and not with your fifth point! And in terms of giving acceleration, I also agree. drinks
        Why are we always missing a kick? am
        1. soul
          soul 10 January 2019 19: 07
          +4
          Quote: Alex2048
          And in this context, I think this ban and the refusal to supply Japan and the USA are a very positive thing,

          Sorry, but they chose a bad moment.

          And such a moment always comes unsuccessfully. Won't they wait until we get ready?
        2. Irokez
          Irokez 10 January 2019 20: 08
          +4
          Quote: Alex2048
          Sorry, but they chose a bad moment.

          Just successful for ourselves and not for us. Sanctions are a cold dish.
          1. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 11 January 2019 23: 43
            +1
            Cold serve beer and ... revenge, that is, a counter station.
            But they have not cooled yet.
      2. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 10 January 2019 19: 50
        +3
        Quote: NEXUS
        And in this context, I think this ban and the refusal to supply Japan and the USA are a very positive moment that will accelerate our production of these materials.

        Yeah, only the delivery dates for the aircraft that have already been contracted will go far to the right. And here new models of Boeing and Airbases are already entering the market. Civilian airlines, this is not an aeronautical videoconferencing, will not wait until the composites are replaced by those (theirs), which are no worse than Japanese
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 10 January 2019 20: 05
          -1
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          Yeah, only the delivery dates for the aircraft that have already been contracted will go far to the right.

          I don’t think ... just the Kazan composites plant will receive an additional contract ... if it is moved to the right and then not for long.
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          And here the new Boeing and Airbus models are already entering the market.

          To do this, there is a state policy, namely the law of using domestic medium-haul aircraft inside the country. So the Loafs and the Watermelons will be re-stamped.
          1. Alf
            Alf 10 January 2019 20: 17
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            namely, the law of using domestic medium-haul airborne flights within the country.

            Is there such a law? What a news ! Briefly, its main provisions are possible and how it is carried out, preferably with numbers.
            1. Alf
              Alf 10 January 2019 20: 27
              0
              Quote: Alf
              Quote: NEXUS
              namely, the law of using domestic medium-haul airborne flights within the country.

              Is there such a law? What a news ! Briefly, its main provisions are possible and how it is carried out, preferably with numbers.

              That's all your proof, only a minus and not a gram of proof ...
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 10 January 2019 21: 32
                +1
                Quote: Alf
                That's all your proof, only a minus and not a gram of proof ...

                Dear, that you do not particularly bubble, I will say, I almost never put minuses. And in this case, I didn’t give you a minus.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 10 January 2019 21: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  And in this case, I didn’t put you a minus.

                  For my part, I also rarely minus, if only some mess has too much to start licking. And, as a rule, such true arguments are not sensible.
                  1. 2329 Carpenter
                    2329 Carpenter 11 January 2019 01: 01
                    0
                    Alf! I put it to you minus. Twice.
                    yes
            2. NEXUS
              NEXUS 10 January 2019 20: 30
              +1
              Quote: Alf
              Is there such a law? What a news ! Briefly, its main provisions are possible and how it is carried out, preferably with numbers.

              I am talking about the regulation of rules that oblige our airlines to use ONLY domestic aircraft, for starters, on medium-haul flights. It is these rules that will protect our manufacturers of such aircraft from the lobby in the Russian Federation of watermelons and loaves.
              In an attempt to stimulate demand for the products of Russian aircraft manufacturers, the Ministry of Transport decided to change the conditions for obtaining an operator’s certificate by amending the Federal Aviation Rules (FAP-246), the agency reports. A notice of this is posted on the portal of draft regulatory legal acts.

              Now, in order to obtain an operator’s certificate for charter flights, a carrier must have from three to seven aircraft in the fleet, and for regular flights - from eight in number of 55 passenger seats or more, the representative of the Federal Air Transport Agency explained. And the Ministry of Transport suggests introducing the mandatory presence in the carrier’s fleet of at least three Russian-made aircraft, and not older than five years. It is planned that the changes will come into force in November 2017 of the year after their approval by the State Duma.
              1. Alf
                Alf 10 January 2019 20: 35
                +3
                Quote: NEXUS
                decided to change

                Decided to change or Changed? The difference is significant.
                Quote: NEXUS
                It is planned that the changes will enter into force in November 2017 after their approval by the State Duma.

                Approved the thought? Have you entered? What changes have occurred over the year? How much has the number of purchased Boeings and Watermelons changed? Wing Super-Ek. How slow is the production of aircraft? But our businessmen will not wait; they will receive tales of a slugger to one place.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 10 January 2019 20: 44
                  +2
                  Quote: Alf
                  But our businessmen will not wait; they will receive tales of a slugger to one place.

                  They may be up to one place ... but when the rules for airlines in the procurement of new aircraft are tightened ... and they are tightened, then what will airlines do with loaves and watermelons, which by law will not "fly", in view of the fact that what is this imported technique?
                  The MS-21 project is a priority and is supervised at the highest level. And I do not think that the input to the series will be postponed for a long time. And precisely MS-21 is positioned as a replacement for long loaves and watermelons on medium-haul lines. So your attempts to tell that it’s just a business do not work here. The Kremlin clearly understands that if the MC is not put into production now, then our civilian aircraft industry will be covered with a copper basin. And taking into account the fact that our country is not a small country and the issue of the movement of citizens and goods is more urgent than anywhere else in the world, we need sovereignty in this matter, which we do not have now. And since we are now dependent on European and mattress companies in this matter, this is yet another lever of pressure on us and the adoption of our decisions.
                  Did I get my point across clearly?
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 10 January 2019 20: 51
                    +3
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    but when toughened the rules for airlines in the procurement of new boards ..

                    When? In what millennium?
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    The Kremlin clearly understands that if the MC is not put into production now, then our civilian aircraft industry will be covered with a copper basin.

                    In the Kremlin? Do you understand? If they understood, they would not have ruined the GA so diligently.
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    supervised at the highest level.

                    We have a lot of things that are curated at the very top, but the results are not encouraging, and the curators only do that with a smart look explain why they once again crap one's pants and quietly transfer to another chair. And the supreme curator only shrugs his hands.
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Did I get my point across clearly?

                    Quite. Wait. when it all comes. I hope you live to a fabulous far.
                    P.S. And you never answered my previous questions ...
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 10 January 2019 21: 39
                      +1
                      Clearly, the messenger has come running.
                      1. Grigory_78
                        Grigory_78 20 January 2019 17: 47
                        0
                        Do you like shortcuts to sculpt? A sign of a small mind or youthful maximalism. As for your questions, I will answer - they are simply meaningless. How can sales of the MS-21 be promoted to the domestic market if it has not yet completed testing? Orders for him now and so on for 5 years of production, there is nowhere to rush with lobbying. IL-114 is also not ready.
      3. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 10 January 2019 19: 53
        -1
        Quote: NEXUS
        We were cut back on supplies, and we began to move in order to produce what we purchased ourselves. In other words,we start to produce what was previously purchased in the West,only after weighty slap in the face of suppliers.

        What is our interesting “carrot and stick” policy in the field of production ... belay I understand this: a slap in the face of foreign suppliers is a whip, and high managers' salaries from production are a carrot ... Maybe it's time for us to take a whip?
        1. Alf
          Alf 10 January 2019 20: 17
          +4
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Maybe it's time for us to take the whip?
          Reply

          There is no coachman.
          1. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 12 January 2019 00: 01
            +2
            Well, it began ...
            Eh ... Alpha would be "mare" under the tail, like burr.
            That’s it, then, Alf?
            As I understand it, "Alfa - Kucher" has already drawn up the reform program and the money for its financing is full of bins?
            Well, the anti-Putin Alfasamese, voice your curious arguments, convince the public that everything is wrong.
            Or will there again be a mantra, sho composites (trams, pensions, medicine, education, development of production ... what else is there?) Had to be practiced even under the pea king? And the Alfasamians must be given the power to steer the country!
            And this evil Putin has stolen the idea of ​​brilliant Alpha (male?) And stumbled into his little egg! Like prosralipolymers ... No?
            1. Alf
              Alf 12 January 2019 16: 29
              -1
              Quote: Vlad.by
              Well, the anti-Putin Alfasamese,

              I do not argue with females.
      4. greenegro
        greenegro 10 January 2019 21: 29
        +2
        But again, someone will sing about mutually beneficial international cooperation ...
      5. Fevralsk. Morev
        Fevralsk. Morev 11 January 2019 01: 53
        +2
        It's called: a roasted cock pecked in one place
    6. Nik2013
      Nik2013 10 January 2019 18: 30
      +2
      WTO in action
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 10 January 2019 18: 37
        -4
        WTO - this is the whole world.
        1. Aleks2048
          Aleks2048 10 January 2019 18: 53
          +3
          WTO is not the whole world. And the WTO has seriously discredited itself against the background of sanctions. hi
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 10 January 2019 21: 37
            0
            "The WTO is not the whole world" - Oh well, green countries are members of the WTO
    7. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 10 January 2019 18: 32
      +2
      There is not a problem in the wing, but in the tail ... The "black" wing is woven from carbon thread. Many people produce and sell it.
      1. Alf
        Alf 10 January 2019 20: 19
        +1
        Quote: Zaurbek
        The "black" wing is woven from carbon fiber. Many people produce and sell it.

        For example, China. Just today I got a note that says that there is a Chinese thread, only it is twice as heavy.
    8. ain1959
      ain1959 10 January 2019 19: 34
      +5
      The fact is that the Russian company Aerocomposite (producing unique wings) uses absolutely innovative developments in aviation and arouses burning interest among Western corporations and developers. The use of the Russian “black wing” improves the characteristics of the aircraft so significantly that a queue has been drawn from those who wish.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 11 January 2019 04: 02
        0
        Quote: ain1959
        The fact is that the Russian company Aerocomposite (producing unique wings) uses absolutely innovative developments in aviation and arouses burning interest among Western corporations and developers.

        Here you are a humorist, these "developments", as you put it, are from Austria, and anyone expressing "burning interest" can acquire them, as Russia did in its time.
        1. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by 12 January 2019 00: 11
          +1
          Well, yes, yes ... Just like aramid threads and fabrics, Russia has nothing to do. And in general, nothing of type was born in Russia, everything American, German, Austrian, well, at worst - Khokhlyatsky, but not Russian ...
          If they’re so smart, why wouldn’t they start processing titanium in a series like in AVISM they put Boeings with Airbasses, they won’t sink to the bottom of the Arctic Ocean, they won’t do atomic icebreakers? Is that all of them, no?
    9. Alf
      Alf 10 January 2019 20: 10
      -2
      Quote: Magic Archer
      but I didn’t hear something because of the sanctions we stopped supplying them ...

      So where is the money of Russia stored ...
      1. Demon_is_ada
        Demon_is_ada 11 January 2019 01: 35
        +2
        Vasily, I share your indignation, but you are a little behind reality ... just now the ZRVs were placed in RMB, Japanese tugriks and the euro ... although all these currencies depend on the dollar, but still it’s at least something, nothing laughing
        Well, about Putin ... nirazu is not a mess (in the sense of his foreign policy - I support, internal - some unprintable definitions No. ) Personally, do you have any decent candidate to take in mind? I have it me laughing but I think you don’t support me, right? Well, all right, it's all the lyrics ... let's get down to business - what exactly do you propose and most importantly how? Well, let's shoot always ready as a pioneer, and then what? If there is no agreement and common values ​​in society, then what will we build ??? Now there are no problems with nanochubays and other limes, and then again run around and catch other alternatively gifted ones, and then others ??? belay Do you even generalize to describe what you personally would like to see in the future, you will see others pull up and discuss it will be hi
        1. Alf
          Alf 11 January 2019 18: 36
          +2
          Quote: Demon_is_ada
          I have, it's me, but I think you will not support me, right?

          Why not support? If you start to raise the state, relying on the principle of social justice, I will very much support it.
          Quote: Demon_is_ada
          If there is no agreement and common values ​​in society, then what will we build ???

          So the first point of amending the Constitution is the introduction of STATE ideology of social justice into it.
          Quote: Demon_is_ada
          and then run again and catch other alternatively gifted, and then others ???

          And what, there are no normal statesmen in Russia?
          Quote: Dem on_is_ada
          Do you even generalize to describe what you personally would like to see in the future, you will see others pull up and discuss it will be

          I have already voiced the first paragraph on the Constitution.
          The second is the removal of their Constitution of the provision on the primacy of world law over Russian.
          The third is the immediate nationalization of the Central Bank and the Security Council.
          The fourth is the introduction of a three-ruble system. The first ruble is cash, for trade and the public. The second is non-cash, for internal payments in industry and government agencies. The most severe control over the prohibition of cashing the first two categories of funds. And the third ruble is foreign currency, secured by gold for foreign settlements. The ban on the circulation of foreign currency in the country.
          Fifth-immediate transition to the gold security of the ruble.
          Sixth-nationalization of all strategic industries and national economy.
          Seventh revision of privatization results.
          The introduction of the state monopoly on the trade in vodka, bread and basic necessities.
          To provide the population with the necessary means for normal life, trade can be left in private hands, ensuring control over it.
          Maintaining GOSTs on products.
          Introduction of the concept of "core nation" for the Russian-speaking population.
          And much more is in the stash, that it is too early to shine.
          1. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 12 January 2019 00: 16
            +1
            Here it is! take away and share!
            Well, good luck.
            Again a rake ... Although not, pitchfork!
            1. Alf
              Alf 12 January 2019 16: 24
              0
              Quote: Vlad.by
              Here it is! take away and share!

              Then we leave everything as it is and continue to whine, as we have.
              1. Grigory_78
                Grigory_78 20 January 2019 11: 40
                0
                Your thoughts are good for the most part. But what about nationalization on such a scale and revising the results of privatization - they will treat us like the USSR in the 1920s. We can trade with the outside world only for gold or for grain, as in the early 1930s. By the way, for the same agriculture, we are not really self-sufficient yet. Many feeds are imported; the quality of turkey chicks is even funny to compare. Most of the metal production is now exported - about 50%. We also sell oil, gas. Remove everything - and where to get the money, Zin? Mass unemployment is provided. Let’s say the standard of living of the population - it will fall somewhat. Today's whiners will try to raise you in the forks, do not hesitate. By the way, you have to remember what the fight against sabotage is, if you have enough time and you will not be thrown off earlier.
                Of course you have far gone from Polygraph Polygraphych, but nevertheless, the calculation of the consequences is clearly not yours. Much of what you voiced is simply unreasonable to do until import substitution is close to completion.
            2. Demon_is_ada
              Demon_is_ada 12 January 2019 21: 14
              +2
              Yeah, to select "honestly acquired by back-breaking labor" laughing , and I don’t really care about a good house, housekeeping, a couple of Mercedes ... but here’s a nickel on an area of ​​several square kilometers of sophisticated equipment, a priori it’s impossible to build a mortal tongue Especially the humanities laughing ... well, yes, I heard he earned money on unloading the wagons, honestly, I bow to my mother yeah ... there are probably also witnesses ... like "Jehovah's Witnesses" ... personally, they probably kept candles laughing
          2. Demon_is_ada
            Demon_is_ada 12 January 2019 21: 08
            +1
            I fully support hi I would especially single out the ideology, the mental health of the nation ... I’ll have to write an article, but I think the locals will hardly approve ... In truth, I'm a fanatic laughing , religious, I cannot be bought and I do not violate some dogmas ... The communist idea is very close and understandable, although I am an adherent of the theory of the "kingdom of heaven", which also implies the social type of society, the vertical of power and the most worthy and intelligent leaders. .. but in the real kingdom there is an unbreakable plus - there hierarchs are immortal, which we do not have recourse Although there are problems in order to solve them ...
    10. StudentVK
      StudentVK 10 January 2019 20: 18
      0
      We just get the currency for this, although we would really like to throw off all this overseas yoke. And then it would be cool if we would instead of rd180 show amers a middle finger, and so on.
      1. Alf
        Alf 10 January 2019 20: 55
        0
        Quote: StudentVK
        We just get the currency for it,

        For our coal, oil, gas, non-renewable, by the way, we get unsecured candy wrappers, the price of which is constantly growing.
    11. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 10 January 2019 20: 46
      +1
      Because if we stop supplying them, then we will have to close the VSMPO-AVISMA enterprise in Russia, and drive people out into the street.

      Do you want that?

      And when Western companies stop supplying us with something, this does not affect them much, since they have a huge sales market for their products around the world.
      1. StudentVK
        StudentVK 10 January 2019 21: 04
        +2
        This is just a word to our lzheberalam about the availability of bases. If there was our base in Germany, then could it be so impudently scolding us ??? Or could they impose such Jesuit sanctions on us?
      2. Alf
        Alf 10 January 2019 21: 34
        +2
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        Because if we stop supplying them, then we will have to close the VSMPO-AVISMA enterprise in Russia, and drive people out into the street.

        Stop repeating the stories of our WTO liberals. And where did these products go before the year 91? And then all these plants shuffled in two shifts.
        And when Western companies stop supplying us with something, this does not affect them much, since they have a huge sales market for their products around the world.

        So why are they so eager for Russia?
        1. Fevralsk. Morev
          Fevralsk. Morev 11 January 2019 01: 59
          0
          Now even the hard workers from Central Asia are not very eager for us. Not like Western companies.
        2. Grigory_78
          Grigory_78 20 January 2019 11: 46
          0
          Quote: Alf

          So why are they so eager for Russia?

          Capitalism is based on the constant expansion of markets. This is how we at one time could not refuse to provide fraternal assistance to the peoples struggling with capitalism.
    12. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 10 January 2019 21: 20
      0
      Titanium is supplied by a private office, which they are afraid to nationalize. Business, what does patriotism have to do with it?
      1. 2329 Carpenter
        2329 Carpenter 11 January 2019 01: 07
        0
        I wonder who is afraid of something?
        1. Grigory_78
          Grigory_78 20 January 2019 12: 48
          0
          I am personally definitely afraid. A sort of chief trampoline specialist will be at the head - and the khan of the enterprise. It will not go bankrupt - the state will not allow it, but quality and efficiency can certainly be forgotten. It is enough to reorganize the production so that all the specialists can run away. Instead of specialists, they will instruct d'effective managers - and an amba. Usually a hands-on leader is enough for a successful enterprise. Production is being crushed imperceptibly, but very quickly. It is usually extremely difficult to return the specialists back.
      2. Nizhlogger
        Nizhlogger 11 January 2019 01: 17
        +2
        Private companies also refused to supply carbon fiber. They were told they did.
  2. 210ox
    210ox 10 January 2019 17: 39
    +6
    Well, here is the answer to today's article
    1. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 10 January 2019 17: 50
      +4
      The answer is the answer .. Dmitry. and it only reminds me of rituals on topics? - "find and punish", "catch up and overtake", "work and achieve", and so on. It reminds me so ... especially when the rooster has already pecked at the fifth point.
  3. Andrey Chistyakov
    Andrey Chistyakov 10 January 2019 17: 40
    +5
    How can we "help partners" .... No words. And after that something else is demanded from us.
  4. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 10 January 2019 17: 42
    +21
    This story has once again shown ... that the entire bazaar for the international division of labor and cooperation is a harmful fiction ... key technologies (if there is no desire to go under the United States and take a sip) you need to have your ...
    The story with the blocking of the contract on the superjet is about the same ...
    1. kjhg
      kjhg 10 January 2019 19: 17
      +5
      Quote: silberwolf88
      This story once again showed ... that the entire bazaar for the international division of labor and cooperation is a harmful fiction

      Quote: silberwolf88
      The story with the blocking of the contract on the superjet is about the same ...

      I disagree. This story once again showed that suckers can be successfully bred successfully and today, as before, Indians were bred for different shiny toys like mirrors. The only problem is that we are in the place of the Indians today.
    2. shahor
      shahor 10 January 2019 19: 39
      +3
      Quote: silberwolf88
      key technologies (if there is no desire to go under the US and have a sip), you must have your ...

      The problem is that there are too many key technologies, and the technologies themselves are insanely complex and expensive. Today no country in the world can have the entire set of such technologies. This is the root of the development of the global economy and the free circulation of capital. Every more or less developed country strives to find its place in the technology market with its own unique product and by all means to preserve it. In place of a loser, an unscrupulous manufacturer, others will immediately come. Therefore, the cries of some "patriots" about the termination of deliveries of titanium products to Boeing or engines in the United States will lead to Boeing buying titanium from China or Japan (production volumes of titanium products there are about twice as high as in Russia), and engines will replace import. But that's not all. Globalization as a whole is an economy for a country participating in the international division of labor. Judge for yourself, using composites as an example. Can we create an analogue? Sure! You will need to develop and manufacture equipment for its production, develop your own technology, and set up production. As a result, in 5 years (I am an optimist), we may get a product of a similar quality, which by that time, quite possibly, will become outdated and will be replaced by a new, more technological one. In the end, billions of rubles from the state budget have been spent, a deliberately unprofitable production has been created - Irkut is not Boeing or Airbus, how many MC-21s it tweaks a year, how many wings will it cut? Do you think anyone abroad will rush to buy your composite? Not
      I think, you will remember both titanium, and engines, and trampolines, and games with gas, to create a reputation as a reliable partner is difficult, it is easy to destroy it with a fool. And our factory, having completed the annual order of Irkut in a month, the rest of the time will rest. And how many more technologies do we need to master? How much budget billions to invest? How many losses will Kudrin write off? Copying today is a dead end. RUSNANO was created not to copy foreign products and technologies, but to develop its breakthrough products, with which it is not a shame to enter the market. Trading oil and gas is not a big mind.
      1. silberwolf88
        silberwolf88 10 January 2019 20: 11
        +4
        Of course there are many key ones ... but not so much as not to keep it at home ... for example, we understand that a normal BAIKAL processor does not pay off BUT the independence of Russian systems ... armaments ... server equipment for the work of the Government ... MO ... FSB ... SVR, etc. will provide ...
        Security of the State is not a commercial project ... it’s about another ... will you be independent ... or stick your tongue and stuff ... there ...
        1. shahor
          shahor 10 January 2019 23: 03
          -3
          Quote: silberwolf88
          that a normal BAIKAL processor does not pay off BUT the independence of Russian systems ...

          The Baikal processor does not provide independence - it provides a lag.
      2. Alf
        Alf 10 January 2019 20: 22
        +4
        Quote: shahor
        RUSNANO was created not to copy foreign products and technologies, but to develop its breakthrough products, with which it is not a shame to enter the market.

        And where are these developments? A new anecdote went through the network - "Russia needs a breakthrough to Putin's call" the pipes of the heating plant in Samara were the first to respond.
        And in your opinion, if you are behind, then you should not catch up?
        1. shahor
          shahor 10 January 2019 23: 05
          -1
          Quote: Alf
          And in your opinion, if you are behind, then you should not catch up?

          Catching up doesn't mean copying. A copy is always worse than the original
          1. Grigory_78
            Grigory_78 20 January 2019 17: 55
            0
            Right Recently read about it. In order not to be a constant outsider in the same electronics, Russia needs its own elemental base of electronic components. All these domestic copies of western microcircuits always turn out worse.
        2. jonht
          jonht 11 January 2019 00: 23
          +2
          "Dear", write the president's surname with a capital letter, or are you, like the Banderaites, ready to "humiliate" him?
          There are rules of the RUSSIAN language, follow them, and you will pass for a patriot more. Learn to appreciate at least "your" native language, and do not turn it into a trash can.
          PS There is no need to answer, YOUR answer is not important to me, vryatli it will be adequate to the remark .....
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Alf
            Alf 11 January 2019 18: 39
            0
            Quote: jonht
            "Dear", write the president's surname with a capital letter, or are you, like the Banderaites, ready to "humiliate" him?

            It is hardly possible to humiliate the president more than he humiliated himself in the eyes of the population.
            The president can be respected for his affairs, but I personally do not notice such things.
      3. antique
        antique 10 January 2019 21: 26
        +1
        Quote: shahor
        And our factory, having completed the annual order of Irkut in a month, the rest of the time will rest. And how many more technologies do we need to master? How much budget billions to invest? How many losses will Kudrin write off?

        These billions must be invested in science. To new enterprises. And when you have unique products that no one has on the market, the question of sanctions will disappear. It is like gas. Everyone needs it. And despite all the sanctions sold. Without their own technology khan. So we will buy yesterday's goods.
        1. Alf
          Alf 10 January 2019 21: 43
          +3
          Quote: Antique
          These billions must be invested in science. To new enterprises.

          And they invest in the Olympics and athletes who "owe nothing to anyone."
          1. 2329 Carpenter
            2329 Carpenter 11 January 2019 01: 15
            +1
            Do new types of weapons from the Holy Alpha spirit appear in us?
            Or are they zykany in the zones for tea-smoking-sweet files sharpen?
            1. antique
              antique 12 January 2019 20: 54
              -3
              There is nothing fundamentally new. All the last "miracles", even the development of the times of the Union. Tanks, airplanes, superwunderwales, underwater and flying. Just everything. It started then. Now they gave money. Brought to mind. Since there are no technologies, they sort of ... rallied, now there are problems with replication. This is where the alpha spirit begins. Andean processors Lego components, bourgeois. Well, as that folded. What we could have done ourselves. As you call it, we cut 1 piece with files. They don't know what to do next. Have arrived. Further, gel and botox in the turnip preziku, blepharoplasty for the premier, well, and uplifting speeches for the servants.
        2. shahor
          shahor 10 January 2019 23: 10
          +1
          Quote: Antique
          Without their own technology khan. So we will buy yesterday's goods.

          You will not be able to create your own technology for all occasions. Some very important, critical, perhaps, but not tomorrow.
          1. antique
            antique 12 January 2019 10: 33
            0
            Quote: shahor
            You will not be able to create your own technology for all occasions. Some very important, critical, perhaps, but not tomorrow.

            In fact, with the current approach to science, production, personnel, nothing will succeed. What we see now is miserable fragments of the Soviet heritage. Selected and brought to some kind of final result. Since when did the creation of a relatively small civilian aircraft become a national fix idea? Under Soviet rule, it is an absolutely ordinary and fairly easily resolved business. However, the Kremlin midget, the most passionate fan of ebn, participated in the destruction of the Russian economy. I was at one of the enterprises engaged in the production of carbon plastics. Instead of thematic products, for which there was no demand, carbon fiber combs were produced. To relieve a hangover syndrome. And now the rat wings have nothing to do with the wings of rats.
            1. 2329 Carpenter
              2329 Carpenter 12 January 2019 21: 22
              +1
              Antik, quite your posts ... splatter, so to speak ...
      4. Grigory_78
        Grigory_78 20 January 2019 13: 05
        0
        In general, I agree with you, but in some places you amused me a lot. About free circulation of capital, for example. Very, very free. Type in the search "BNP Paribas fine", "FATCA" - you will learn a lot of new things for yourself. As for optimism, they assure that the import substitution of these composites was puzzled back in 2014. It's 2019, exactly 5 years. I hope that statements about readiness for import substitution of composites for MS-21 have more grounds than statements about the start of serial production of PAK FA in 2013.
    3. D16
      D16 11 January 2019 18: 33
      0
      And which contract on SSJ was blocked? Can you pamper the link about the contract? If you are about Iran, then it wasn’t, the contract wink ... There was a statement of intent that did not bind anyone to anything. Moreover, according to him, Iran was going to buy 40 SSJ with the letter "R". What does it mean, I think you already know very well. The fact that in some Jewish edition they once again threw g *** a on the fan for hamsters does not mean that it should be thrown further to the best of our strength and capabilities. It turns out like in a joke. Not in the lottery, but in cards, not the Volga, but 5 rubles, did not win, but lost laughing .
      1. shahor
        shahor 12 January 2019 15: 42
        +1
        Quote: D16
        If you are talking about Iran, then it wasn’t, a contract.

        Maybe you can explain why Sukhoi turned to the US authorities for permission to export to Iran, which was confirmed by the representative of the UAC?
        1. D16
          D16 12 January 2019 15: 55
          0
          Duc Sukhovtsy, as it were, was not against selling the planes, and Iran was once again interested. I don’t remember which, if you count 204 laughing . Naturally, our request was made. NSA Americans never answered, since they know the price of Iranian desires to acquire Russian planes very well fellow ... And the Sukhovites began to develop the "R" modification for their MO, and for Iran, if it suddenly had money for it. Something like this.
      2. Grigory_78
        Grigory_78 20 January 2019 18: 03
        0
        Considering that American components are used on the Superjet, it was required to obtain US approval before concluding the contract. No approvals received, respectively, about which contract are we talking about? He remained at the stage of intentions. One plus in this is that import substitution has reached the Superjet.
  5. dvina71
    dvina71 10 January 2019 17: 43
    +1
    Corps of strategic missiles are made of such a composite .. The problems are probably not in production ..
    1. Corn
      Corn 10 January 2019 17: 59
      +18
      There are thousands of different types of carbon fiber reinforced plastics, all of them have different characteristics and scope. I can, of course, be mistaken, but I think that the wing and hull of the missiles are experiencing fundamentally different loads, different temperature conditions, different requirements for reliability and durability, and are made of different materials.
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 10 January 2019 18: 05
        -9
        Quote: Corn
        Of course, I can be mistaken, but I think that the wing and body of the missiles are experiencing fundamentally different loads,

        Yeah .. missile body .. overcoming the force of gravity. Of course experiencing less stress .. than the wing of the plane ... Are you serious?
        1. Rzzz
          Rzzz 10 January 2019 18: 24
          +21
          The rocket body is used once. Unlike an airplane wing.
          1. dvina71
            dvina71 10 January 2019 19: 14
            -3
            Quote: rzzz
            The rocket body is used once. Unlike an airplane wing.

            The aircraft experiences an overload of 1.5G during take-off .. The rocket reaches a height of 10km in about 60 seconds .. Do you calculate the overload yourself?
            1. Rzzz
              Rzzz 10 January 2019 20: 04
              +4
              Quote: dvina71
              Count yourself the overload?


              Of course I will.
              According to your introductory results in 0,57G.
            2. Alf
              Alf 10 January 2019 20: 24
              +2
              Quote: dvina71
              The aircraft experiences an overload of 1.5G during take-off .. The rocket reaches a height of 10km in about 60 seconds ..

              But only in materials science there are two different indicators - Peak load and Constant load.
            3. Flies
              Flies 11 January 2019 02: 23
              +1
              The body of the rocket stages has a honeycomb structure, known from hell knows what time. Lightweight and durable. There is nothing super-duper materials there.
              "... cheap, reliable and practical!" (c)
        2. Botanikas
          Botanikas 10 January 2019 18: 52
          +5
          The combat missile body is designed to be well stored and bring the load to where it should be (shock loads 10 min + resistance to certain factors).
          It is not tested for tens of thousands of take-off and landing cycles ...
        3. Grigory_78
          Grigory_78 20 January 2019 13: 12
          0
          It doesn’t reach you that you are trying to compare green with hot figuratively speaking. A civilian aircraft made using military technology will be very expensive to manufacture and operate. The requirements are different. Absolutely.
    2. venik
      venik 10 January 2019 18: 00
      +5
      Quote: dvina71
      Corps of strategic missiles are made of such a composite .. The problems are probably not in production ..

      ==========
      So "composite" - "composite" - strife !!! It's the same as saying, well, for example: "polymer" (and there are THOUSANDS of them (polymers) !!! With "composites" - the same story .... So exactly the one that was NECESSARY and was not produced !! ! Thank God, at least they did it in a timely manner .... Although they could have thought in advance - otherwise they got used to: "We'll buy it abroad! .... We'll buy it abroad!" Bought !!! "A donut hole." domestic SPECIALISTS - scientists and technologists "hurry up" !!!!
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 10 January 2019 18: 08
        +1
        Quote: venik
        So "composite" - "composite" - strife !!!

        Carbon fiber .. is produced in Russia .. in Rosatom .., Alabuga-Fiber ..
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 10 January 2019 18: 33
          +1
          This is not a problem.
    3. Hole puncher
      Hole puncher 10 January 2019 18: 28
      +5
      Quote: dvina71
      Corps of strategic missiles are made of such a composite .. The problems are probably not in production ..

      Composite is a ready-made material that is made of carbon fiber sintered with a special resin in an autoclave (a common method) or using laser technology, which we bought from the Austrians. The latter is good for producing large critical parts such as a wing. So fiber and resin have different characteristics, for fiber it is the ultimate load and elastic modulus. The higher these characteristics, the less carbon fiber is needed and, accordingly, the lighter the structure.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 10 January 2019 18: 33
        0
        Technology bought from the Japs
    4. ain1959
      ain1959 10 January 2019 19: 38
      +1
      The problem is certification, we already make wings from composite, even better than in the USA, they don’t want to certify the United States that they will not be allowed to market. RUSSIA REVIVES ITS WINGS
      Nobody does as much as the US to develop Russian aviation
      Ruslan Khubiev http://www.iarex.ru/articles/63333.html http://argumenti.ru/society/n534/442691
  6. nznz
    nznz 10 January 2019 17: 43
    +13
    tired of all this. Well, just an idiot it is not clear that the pies have long been apart. Lessons must be obtained and conclusions drawn, and we still call the enemies dear partners. These pigs only understand the kick, or the smell of blood from the slaughterhouse, they don’t understand the other.
    1. Grigory_78
      Grigory_78 20 January 2019 13: 22
      +1
      I have already spoken and will repeat it. A sparring partner is also a partner. Moreover, he can offend you not childishly, and you him. A potential adversary would probably be more accurate. Generally interesting is the evolution of terms from potential opponents to incredible friends and then to our partners.
  7. Spiritual
    Spiritual 10 January 2019 17: 45
    +14
    The wing will be created from domestic composite materials.

    I am sure that we can, but thieves and rogues can let the whole thing go down the drain ..
    Remember that we created everything from needles to orbital flights on our own behind the "iron curtain" !!!!
    1. dvina71
      dvina71 10 January 2019 17: 55
      +3
      Quote: Spiritual
      thieves and swindlers

      They are the ones who buy materials abroad .., Alabuga - since 15g it has been producing carbon fiber .., though this applies to Rosatom State Corporation ... you won’t get too hot ..
      1. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 10 January 2019 18: 32
        +3
        Quote: dvina71
        They are the ones who buy materials abroad .., Alabuga - since 15g it has been producing carbon fiber .., though this applies to Rosatom State Corporation ... you won’t get too hot ..

        Do you know the characteristics? Or do you think that it makes no difference what’s fishing rod, what’s wing?
        1. dvina71
          dvina71 10 January 2019 18: 57
          +3
          Quote: Puncher
          Do you know the characteristics?

          The Japanese claim that their T800S has a side-strength of 5.8 GPa ..
          12k Umateks (Alabuga-Fiber) 5.5 GPA ..
          Somehow I came across purchases of imported analogues .. I was transporting ventilation modules for Prirazlomnaya ... when I said what the purchase price of these modules was, manufacturers of ventilation systems at our local enterprise .. they considered that the difference in cost ... even when using imported galvanization .. three times ... But you can’t cut the dough on ours ...
          1. Grigory_78
            Grigory_78 20 January 2019 13: 26
            0
            Thanks for a good example. Itself is not involved in the procurement of equipment at all, but the scheme is painfully familiar. Repeatedly described.
      2. Spiritual
        Spiritual 10 January 2019 18: 48
        +1
        Quote: dvina71
        Quote: Spiritual
        thieves and swindlers

        They are the ones who buy materials abroad .., Alabuga - since 15g it has been producing carbon fiber .., though this applies to Rosatom State Corporation ... you won’t get too hot ..

        Let's break through, the main thing is that the sanctions are not lifted .. They are useful for Russia, we begin to move, we begin in all areas ...
        It's a pity that you can’t shoot! soldier
      3. ain1959
        ain1959 10 January 2019 19: 40
        +2
        AS WELL THIS. THE FACTORY IS AND IT WORKS AND WE DO NOT WHY “AeroComposit-Ulyanovsk” is the only plant in the world producing large strength structural elements and assemblies for aviation from composite materials created using the vacuum infusion method. Experts from leading Western aircraft manufacturing concerns acknowledge that Ulyanovsk technology has outstripped time and the wing of even the newest Boeing-787 Dreamliner composite airliner, you can say the old-fashioned way, using an autoclave made of capricious and super-expensive prepregs. If such material is not used, it must be frozen, and then no more than 10 days. Http://argumenti.ru/society/n534/442691
  8. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 10 January 2019 17: 49
    +5
    An article from the series "All polymers were profuked". But even during the development of the Bulava, these problems got out. No, they pulled it to the last ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 January 2019 18: 43
      +1
      The mace in service and in the series is not strange.
      1. Alf
        Alf 10 January 2019 22: 24
        -1
        Quote: Vadim237
        The mace in service and in the series is not strange.

        The only rubber coating plant for submarines in Russia has been destroyed; rubber is now being purchased in China. Is the analogy clear? The recent scandal about foreign parts on Russian satellites does not mean anything?
        1. Fevralsk. Morev
          Fevralsk. Morev 11 January 2019 02: 09
          -2
          At the helm of our country traders. The very thought of producing something is disgusting to them. Only trade. For resources to buy what you need to produce yourself.
        2. D16
          D16 11 January 2019 19: 26
          +1
          What a greasy draft. fellow https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2544628.html
        3. Vadim237
          Vadim237 12 January 2019 22: 23
          +1
          Are you so sure about that?
  9. Altona
    Altona 10 January 2019 17: 50
    +5
    Borisov's statements about the "uselessness" of the Armat and the Su-57 also apparently lie in the plane of a certain dependence on imported components and materials.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 10 January 2019 18: 34
      +3
      Su57 -100% there composite all outdoor panels and tail
    2. Grigory_78
      Grigory_78 20 January 2019 18: 14
      0
      Borisov did not say a word about the uselessness. Only that there is no need to rush with mass production until the tests are completed. One journalism came up with, another hundred replicated, now all and sundry are repeating. Then 080808 Russia attacked Georgia, and we chose Trump as president, and the GRU poisoned Skripal. Since a hundred times the reprinted in the media is a priori true. Feel free to smack nonsense. She certainly hurt, but nothing will tolerate. Fate is like that.
  10. Antidote
    Antidote 10 January 2019 17: 52
    +6
    Until the rooster pecks.
    It was good, I sold oil, I bought a plane, but something went wrong. Further it will be worse, a lot of time is lost.
    1. Henderson
      Henderson 10 January 2019 18: 16
      -3
      This is all the damned 90s! 18 years after them, and that was not enough.
      1. Fevralsk. Morev
        Fevralsk. Morev 11 January 2019 02: 13
        +3
        For 18 years, Peter the first of the Moscow kingdom transformed our country into an empire. Stalin in 12 years created Industry from scratch. And when time and money are spent on ambitious breakthrough projects, there is no money for real affairs with real results, no time
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 12 January 2019 22: 26
          +1
          There was no empty place under Stalin — all industry remained from the Russian Empire — it was developed.
      2. antique
        antique 12 January 2019 21: 12
        -1
        Of course the damned nineties. However, the galley slave opens the Yeltsin center, kisses the hands of the widow of the first "popularly elected", the son-in-law of the beloved leader, becomes and is an advisor to the prezik for all 18 years, redhead \ I don’t know how to write so that there is no ban \ \ probably it is possible, this is not mat received a sweet post, again in the best traditions of the nineties, the pension reform, and suck with Alekseeva, and so on and so forth. I almost forgot. Semi-oligophrenic Chernomyrdin, who loses Russia, is sent to Ukraine. Which, as it should be in the absence of a brain, about ..... ball. For outstanding state services, another miracle ship is named after him. As they say to Caesar, Caesar. Liliputin, another portion of the gel in the face mirror, at public expense. So we will win!
      3. Grigory_78
        Grigory_78 20 January 2019 14: 33
        0
        "The devastation is not in the closets, but in the heads. If instead of working, I start singing, there will be devastation in my house."
  11. Plate
    Plate 10 January 2019 17: 54
    +3
    Very well. Its production of composites must be developed.
  12. Corn
    Corn 10 January 2019 17: 55
    +7
    It is a logical decision, as far as I know, for the su57 carbon wing is made from domestic materials. And yet, the issue of dates and certification remains open, ms21 is already a slight lag behind the planned schedule, and still put off ....
    UAC plans to appeal the decision of American and Japanese suppliers
    We must not appeal, but sue in full for a penalty.
    1. Rzzz
      Rzzz 10 January 2019 18: 26
      -1
      Quote: Corn
      do not appeal against the ado, but sue in full for the penalty.


      Neither this nor that will succeed. Force majeure is prescribed in any contract, and this is a typical case
      1. Aleks2048
        Aleks2048 10 January 2019 19: 07
        +1
        But this is a field of work for lawyers. You can’t talk about force majeure when it becomes a system. repeat
        1. Rzzz
          Rzzz 10 January 2019 20: 13
          0
          This should be a field of work for the lawyer before the contract is signed. It's too late to rock the boat.
          And minus someone put there in vain. These are the realities of modern business.
          1. Aleks2048
            Aleks2048 10 January 2019 21: 41
            0
            This should be a field of work for the lawyer before the contract is signed.

            Perfect option.
            I agree. Everything in court is obviously worse.
  13. ANCIENT
    ANCIENT 10 January 2019 17: 56
    +6
    Actually, we kind of declared IMPORT SUBSTITUTION, so complaining is just really stupid. But one needs to develop one's own production in practice, and not engage in more talking.
    1. Andrey Chistyakov
      Andrey Chistyakov 10 January 2019 18: 00
      -1
      Quote: ANCIENT
      Actually, we kind of declared IMPORT SUBSTITUTION, so complaining is just really stupid. But one needs to develop one's own production in practice, and not engage in more talking.

      Yes, there is not so much a complaint about the meanness of the "partners".
  14. Hypersound
    Hypersound 10 January 2019 17: 58
    +2
    Ask Sukhoi, in the end they made 70% of the Su-57 glider from carbon
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 10 January 2019 18: 31
      +8
      I will say it again - you can buy fibers and resins at the household store, and you can even find Russian ones. And bake in the oven at least a probe on Jupiter.

      Su-57 or MiG-29M / KUB or something else was calculated for certain characteristics of the material. The MS-21 wing was calculated using materials from market leaders (with certain strength, resource and operational characteristics, weight, etc.) - and again, even in this news:
      UAC plans to appeal the decision of American and Japanese suppliers
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 10 January 2019 18: 50
        0
        In the future, they will make 3D printers that print: fuselage, flaps, slats, ailerons, tail units, it will be much easier to produce.
      2. Altona
        Altona 10 January 2019 20: 45
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        Su-57 or MiG-29M / KUB or something else was calculated for certain characteristics of the material.

        -------------------------
        There is not only a wing of resin and fibers. The same MS-21 and SSJ, there is already Parker hydraulics, for example, it is from fittings and fluid couplings to valves and distributors, hydraulic locks and cylinders. There are actually lists, this is just the first thing I remembered offhand. And in electronics, what's going on there? Who does the bearings with us, probably SKF or Timken, and not Saratov?
  15. svp67
    svp67 10 January 2019 18: 02
    +4
    The head of the KLA noted that a decision had already been made regarding the future parameters of the wing of a medium-haul Russian passenger aircraft. The wing will be created from domestic composite materials.
    Long live His Majesty "The Magic PENDAL". It seems that we only need it to step forward.

    OURSELVES TO DO IT, Gentlemen, OWN. It is clear that you can’t steal a lot from this, but you even have to steal from PROFIT, and not from DAMAGES.
    Moreover, the same composite wing of our new IL-112 transporter. So, the material for him must be done and in no case should one rely on China.
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 10 January 2019 19: 04
      -3
      It should be easier! "Partners" to ashes and glass - and no Magic Pendals are needed! wassat
    2. D16
      D16 11 January 2019 18: 49
      0
      C'mon! wassat Composite wing on IL-112 !!! Long?
  16. taiga2018
    taiga2018 10 January 2019 18: 07
    +5
    how many more sanctions are needed for some oak heads to finally realize that at the moment no cooperation with the "civilized" is possible, especially if this leads to competition with them ...
    1. Fevralsk. Morev
      Fevralsk. Morev 11 January 2019 02: 15
      +1
      When the stolen money is taken out and stored in the partner country, you don’t particularly show off
  17. afrikanez
    afrikanez 10 January 2019 18: 24
    +1
    leading industry experts from Rosatom, VIAM, scientists from Moscow State University, specialists from a number of private companies are involved
    Damn it, they forgot about Chubais. He would have done it with his Rusnano lol
  18. donavi49
    donavi49 10 January 2019 18: 25
    +7
    Yes. But the main question is compliance. I repeat, even you can go to the household store / online store and buy the components in the oven to bake your MS-21. And even from domestic materials. The only question is the strength, resource, operational characteristics for a certain weight / shape.

    The problem / feature - the whole project, in the use of really modern materials. Therefore, they contracted fiber from the Japanese, and in the USA resins. Under these characteristics created a wing. If domestic material cannot get into the aircraft structural reserve (which is small - because a large reserve = bad for a commercial flight). You will have to make design changes - which will degrade performance.

    The analogy is clear from the previous topic:
    in Russia do 65nm
    procure through reliable sanction-resistant channels 28nm
    14nm standard in the world
    a certain company - an industry leader is already doing 10нм and the Product has been calculated for this.
    revolutionary technology is coming that will give 5-7нм processes.

    Actually, you can return to 65 or 28нм, but you will have to redo the entire product and your competitive advantage will be lost.
    1. ANCIENT
      ANCIENT 10 January 2019 18: 32
      +4
      Donavi 49 - 7nm process technology has been mastered for a year already! By our efforts, but not in our country. ..
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 10 January 2019 18: 43
        +2
        Well, these are trifles, in the sense of my analogy works.

        It was possible - but again, the analogs of 65nm or 28nm at the time when the product comes out 7nm will already be mastered, and 5nm is on the way. Again, the competitors are not sleeping and will use it. That is, obviously a losing situation.

        They put the risk - in the form of 10nm among the market leaders. But not a bit took off. Literally a year 2 not calculated.
      2. ain1959
        ain1959 10 January 2019 19: 48
        0
        Can I clarify in which country our corrupt scientists have attached?
        1. ANCIENT
          ANCIENT 10 January 2019 21: 21
          +1
          -ain1959-In two Asian countries, it’s just not corrupt, but unemployed, under a contract ...
          1. ain1959
            ain1959 10 January 2019 22: 31
            0
            Could you specify?
            1. kjhg
              kjhg 11 January 2019 06: 23
              +2
              A strange question, but Laos is not with Cambodia, in fact request
    2. ain1959
      ain1959 10 January 2019 19: 47
      -1
      Iran will still buy the main thing, let it be calculated
  19. Aleksandr21
    Aleksandr21 10 January 2019 18: 27
    +2
    There is still a moment with the timing of serial production of the MS-21. If domestic components are still being tested + there will be their certification, then the aircraft will go serially at best in 3-4 years and in the worst from 5-10 years. Will the aircraft be competitive in the market by then? The MS-21 has enough competitors: the Boeing-737 MAX, Airbus A320neo and there are also Chinese who are developing their own aircraft .... by the time they are released, the price will go up due to domestic components, so the airplane has a difficult future. Even our domestic airlines may not wait for it and buy from competitors, and there is nothing to say about the world market.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 January 2019 18: 53
      0
      That’s how they will manage in 4 years and in 2023 mass production of the aircraft will begin.
      1. Fevralsk. Morev
        Fevralsk. Morev 11 January 2019 02: 18
        0
        We have a wagon and a small trolley. Moses leads us in the desert for 18 years. There are 22 more left and we will be at home in the new Russia
    2. ain1959
      ain1959 10 January 2019 19: 53
      +1
      They say that there will be enough fiber for 10 aircraft, and that’s money, but we’ll come up with something, in particular, at the end of 2018, sanctions were introduced prohibiting companies from the USA and Japan from supplying materials for the composite wing. This is not an unsolvable problem; on the contrary, it opens up new chances for domestic manufacturers, but nevertheless it perfectly characterizes Washington.
      The fact is that the Russian company Aerocomposite (producing unique wings) uses absolutely innovative developments in aviation and arouses burning interest among Western corporations and developers. The use of the Russian “black wing” improves the characteristics of the aircraft so significantly that a queue has been drawn from those who wish. You can exchange our titanium for their plastic ....
      1. Campanella
        Campanella 10 January 2019 20: 42
        0
        In general, you should start thinking at such a level before you are going to do something.
  20. APASUS
    APASUS 10 January 2019 18: 32
    0
    Well, how many of us will be dunked in manure, when our authorities already understand that production should be developed by themselves? They teach, but by the way, a very good excuse to talk with the Japanese about the peace treaty and the islands, it's time to ask the "partners"
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 10 January 2019 18: 47
      +3
      The Japanese are not independent here. Moreover, this company (Toray Industries) has a business in the United States, companies in the United States and, in general, is significantly dependent on the United States.
      1. Nizhlogger
        Nizhlogger 11 January 2019 01: 26
        +2
        And if they’re not independent, then there’s nothing to talk with.
        No one signs peace treaties with children dependent on their parents.
  21. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 10 January 2019 18: 35
    +2
    Is it really impossible to stop the supply of titanium for Dreamliners, in response to this nonsense? Slusar, with its own, courts and claims, looks like Ukrainians in the Crimea. Those, too, appealed to run.
    1. Campanella
      Campanella 10 January 2019 20: 40
      0
      It is possible and necessary, only first it is necessary to establish the production and operation of their aircraft, because partners will take and will not sell you their Boeing and Airbuses.
  22. Vadim237
    Vadim237 10 January 2019 18: 40
    -1
    It is necessary to enter a line in future joint contracts - in case of failure to fulfill the agreements in the contract, a penalty in ten times the value of the transaction.
    1. Campanella
      Campanella 10 January 2019 20: 38
      +2
      Who will you sue? With a Texas court? ))) Our gut is thin.
  23. irazum
    irazum 10 January 2019 18: 48
    0
    I must say something. "Trampoline number 2".
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. Awaz
    Awaz 10 January 2019 18: 58
    +1
    It's just some kind of ... UAC screwed up utterly. They tormented and continue to torment SuperJet and there is still no exhaust from him. Moreover, they refuse him more than they buy. Even Aeroflot. Here the United States banned just now !!! sell it to Iran ... The problem is not with the Americans and the Japanese. The problem in local managers ...
    1. D16
      D16 11 January 2019 19: 48
      0
      Bombardier generally had to give the 300th series to Watermelon. Many who refused SSJ? Do you have proofs about Aeroflot? Who did the United States ban, and what was Iran going to buy? And what does the USA have to do with this modification of the GSS?
  26. Stoler
    Stoler 10 January 2019 19: 00
    0
    "The wing will be made of domestic composite materials." - cho ,,,, plywood again ?? laughing
    1. D16
      D16 11 January 2019 19: 51
      0
      She, a birthplace on graphene nanotubes fellow .
  27. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 10 January 2019 19: 06
    0
    You can sneer and make fun of this for a long time, but the refusal to fulfill the contract should be compensated for by fines for these companies. This is also another proof of the failure of the blind faith of our government and the president in the so-called. liberal capitalism and the market - there is no such thing in the world and will not be, as long as the only value is the number of foreign valuable and not very pieces of paper, and not the development of their state and the good of the whole people, and not a separate group of financiers and business owners. In parallel, the SGA banned the sale of the MS-21 outside the Russian Federation, since it is more than 20% assembled from their parts. And our government, when concluding agreements on cooperation, could not think about it. Headless or simple-minded? I don’t believe it, they were just interested in this by their business partners in order to close this project in the future. And the engines on it are also imported and wait for the next gifts now from European partners. It has long been known that no one in the West needs the Russian aircraft industry, and our liberal government even has a stake on its head - it still looks into the mouth of its "partners"! fool
    1. jovanni
      jovanni 10 January 2019 19: 24
      +4
      Quote: Vlad5307
      And our government when it concluded a cooperation agreement could not think about it. Headless or open-hearted?

      Yes, once they just had to deal with such nonsense! At that time, they had more important things to do, for example, remaking the police to the police ... Or changing time zones to and fro ...
      1. Grigory_78
        Grigory_78 20 January 2019 18: 43
        0
        Oh yeah. Ingenious character. The last pearl is the magical retention of prices with rising fuel costs due to higher VAT rates and excise taxes.
    2. Fevralsk. Morev
      Fevralsk. Morev 11 January 2019 02: 20
      0
      in power worse than a saboteur
  28. evgen1221
    evgen1221 10 January 2019 19: 15
    +2
    Yes, even if it flies on plywood wings, I would clean the internal transportation from Boeing with total lobbying by the state.
  29. bald
    bald 10 January 2019 19: 20
    +1
    Sorry, 25 again, until the cock bites in one place. Pecked and suddenly caught on SOS! If desired, this question could be raised five years ago.
    1. ohka
      ohka 10 January 2019 19: 45
      +1
      Newton's first law - a prerequisite for the start of movement of any body is a kick request
  30. Syroitel_nik
    Syroitel_nik 10 January 2019 19: 25
    0
    Thanks to Amers for helping us develop the industry.
  31. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 10 January 2019 19: 28
    -1
    Quote: bald
    Sorry, 25 again, until the cock bites in one place. Pecked and suddenly caught on SOS! If desired, this question could be raised five years ago.

    At the same time, it was necessary to raise the issue of the production of engines and other things for the MS-21, otherwise when all the cards are in the hands of the "partners" (> 70% of the components) you will not move anywhere. And the resource of the engines turned out to be small and the supply of spare parts takes a lot of time - so we got the job done with the "partners"!
    1. D16
      D16 11 January 2019 19: 57
      +1
      PD-14 is not certified for MS-21?
  32. miracle3213
    miracle3213 10 January 2019 19: 31
    0
    Well, on the one hand, this is wonderful. If we have a technology for the production of composite wings. And on the other hand, will our material pass international certification? Even if he is better than the Japanese in all respects, will politics intervene? But without this certificate, the MS-21 can only fly inside Russia, which is neither interesting nor profitable ...
    1. ain1959
      ain1959 10 January 2019 20: 14
      0
      Quote: chudo3213
      Well, on the one hand, this is wonderful. If we have a technology for the production of composite wings. And on the other hand, will our material pass international certification? Even if he is better than the Japanese in all respects, will politics intervene? But without this certificate, the MS-21 can only fly inside Russia, which is neither interesting nor profitable ...

      Can the same Iran, China, India and Africa be sold for local transportation, and then the donkey can die, the main thing is that our wing would be cheaper than them, and if it goes further they will soon ban all our flights to the USA?
      1. D16
        D16 11 January 2019 19: 59
        +1
        And if we ban them over the territory of Russia?
  33. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 10 January 2019 19: 40
    +4
    Korolev R-7 also collected from imported materials?
    In general, with these composites more than 20 years ago, experienced manufacturers praised them at the innovation exhibition in St. Petersburg. And from carbon, and from other fibers ... But somehow, neither the grefs nor the figefs needed this.
    (During his time in the administration of St. Petersburg, German Gref met with Vladimir Putin, Alexei Kudrin, Dmitry Kozak, Dmitry Medvedev. German Oskarovich and Vladimir Putin (then vice-mayor) were consultants and members of the advisory board of the German real estate company SPAG, created by initiative of the city hall of the northern capital.
    During the formation of the government of Mikhail Kasyanov, German Gref was invited to the post of Minister of Economic Development. German Oskarovich held this position from 2000 to 2007. In the next government of Mikhail Fradkov, German Gref again took the post of Minister of Economic Development and Trade.)
    These are the people who "developed" the country. And they continue to "develop".
    And their partners from Europe, Japan and the USA are just waiting for the Russians to be left on Earth at all.
  34. Gerklim
    Gerklim 10 January 2019 19: 58
    0
    About how it turns out. We are told about sanctions, import substitution, and then they bought wings from their '' best '' partners. Domestic aircraft from foreign components.
  35. Strashila
    Strashila 10 January 2019 20: 02
    +2
    "The Russian Aviation Plant has created carbon wings for the MS-21 better than the Boeing 787" http://24ri.ru/down/o-116.html dated February 22, 2016, the article raised the issue of the quality and advanced technology for the production of wings for the MS -21, the main issue was raw materials, there are possible manufacturers not only in America, but also in Japan and Austria. So the topic is not new.
    1. ain1959
      ain1959 10 January 2019 20: 17
      0
      The main thing is silent who they are
    2. Campanella
      Campanella 11 January 2019 00: 06
      0
      What a stupid thing. A plant can produce, not create. I do not think that they have their own design bureau, too expensive.
  36. asar
    asar 10 January 2019 20: 14
    -1
    How old are sanctions and counter-sanctions already ?!
    We make excellent military equipment, but what sort of plane do the Problem ?!
  37. Campanella
    Campanella 10 January 2019 20: 24
    +1
    Not just appeal, but invoice. But something tells us that the Americans are covered by the contract.
    In general, the situation shows the real state of our industry and science, and most importantly the lack of a systematic approach to the development of industries. As Ukrainians have some kind of toad jumping.
  38. Radikal
    Radikal 10 January 2019 20: 33
    +1

    Slyusar noted that work on the creation of domestic analogues of Japanese and American composite materials has been conducted since 2014. Leading industry experts from Rosatom, VIAM, scientists from Moscow State University, and specialists from a number of private companies are involved in this work.
    "Rusnano" forgot for some reason .... wassat
    1. Grigory_78
      Grigory_78 20 January 2019 18: 49
      0
      And what does Rusnano have to do with it? Haha! Haha! It is better that the redhead does not even go past, away from sin.
  39. Radikal
    Radikal 10 January 2019 20: 47
    +1
    Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
    Chubais netrozh !!!! He is from the president’s team, but he doesn’t scatter personnel

    wassat wassat wassat good
  40. Radikal
    Radikal 10 January 2019 20: 57
    +1
    Quote: shahor
    Quote: silberwolf88
    key technologies (if there is no desire to go under the US and have a sip), you must have your ...

    The problem is that there are too many key technologies, and the technologies themselves are insanely complex and expensive. Today no country in the world can have the entire set of such technologies. This is the root of the development of the global economy and the free circulation of capital. Every more or less developed country strives to find its place in the technology market with its own unique product and by all means to preserve it. In place of a loser, an unscrupulous manufacturer, others will immediately come. Therefore, the cries of some "patriots" about the termination of deliveries of titanium products to Boeing or engines in the United States will lead to Boeing buying titanium from China or Japan (production volumes of titanium products there are about twice as high as in Russia), and engines will replace import. But that's not all. Globalization as a whole is an economy for a country participating in the international division of labor. Judge for yourself, using composites as an example. Can we create an analogue? Sure! You will need to develop and manufacture equipment for its production, develop your own technology, and set up production. As a result, in 5 years (I am an optimist), we may get a product of a similar quality, which by that time, quite possibly, will become outdated and will be replaced by a new, more technological one. In the end, billions of rubles from the state budget have been spent, a deliberately unprofitable production has been created - Irkut is not Boeing or Airbus, how many MC-21s it tweaks a year, how many wings will it cut? Do you think anyone abroad will rush to buy your composite? Not
    I think, you will remember both titanium, and engines, and trampolines, and games with gas, to create a reputation as a reliable partner is difficult, it is easy to destroy it with a fool. And our factory, having completed the annual order of Irkut in a month, the rest of the time will rest. And how many more technologies do we need to master? How much budget billions to invest? How many losses will Kudrin write off? Copying today is a dead end. RUSNANO was created not to copy foreign products and technologies, but to develop its breakthrough products, with which it is not a shame to enter the market. Trading oil and gas is not a big mind.

    How many words, how much pathos, I directly see the author with cheeks swollen with pride for Rusnano ...! Only two questions - where are all these "breakthrough" products, and in whose interests does this shop work? We are all in the spotlight ...! lol
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 12 January 2019 22: 30
      +1
      The Baikal processor was created with funding from Rusnano.
  41. Adimius38
    Adimius38 10 January 2019 21: 19
    -1
    Well, what were Vova and Dima thinking? billions were slammed on the project, they all had friends and partners.
    1. Alf
      Alf 10 January 2019 21: 45
      +1
      Quote: Adimius38
      Well, what were Vova and Dima thinking?

      It’s like to feed Ozerov’s friends.
    2. Campanella
      Campanella 11 January 2019 00: 03
      +2
      They wanted to get into the West, and they sent them in small steps.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 12 January 2019 22: 32
        +1
        If they wanted to zakorefanitsya - back in the 2000s they would zakorefanitsya.
        1. Campanella
          Campanella 12 January 2019 23: 18
          0
          The fact of the matter is that the guys were explained their vassal position. They then thought of themselves as partners ... If they had merged everything, they would have become partners for about five minutes ...
  42. DPN
    DPN 10 January 2019 21: 38
    0
    It is necessary to appeal their actions and their consequences for Russia, and not the decisions of the West. There is a VIAM which all its existence works for aviation on this topic.
    The question is whether Russia needs its own aircraft or to feed the west buying from them?
    1. D16
      D16 11 January 2019 20: 18
      +1
      "Feeding" is about nothing at all. This is a matter of sovereignty.
  43. Ironclad
    Ironclad 10 January 2019 21: 43
    0
    "At the same time, Slyusar added that the UAC plans to appeal against the decision of American and Japanese suppliers to refuse to fulfill their contractual obligations."
    What does it mean to appeal?!?! Do not comply with the international court! How to Ukrainians Ukrainians filed! So we must react! As firm as possible!
  44. Yat
    Yat 10 January 2019 21: 52
    +3
    Preimported
  45. JD1979
    JD1979 10 January 2019 21: 52
    +1
    I see the ability to think strategically at least a few years ahead, the top managers have completely atrophied. Either 10% of American parts turned out to be in the superbug, or American raw materials in the MS-21 ... 4 years of sanctions did not force the remnants of the cerebellum to turn on and give birth to a simple idea - they will turn us off 100% of the high-tech, we need to develop our base. And then, suddenly, in the 5th year of the sanctions confrontation, America opened for some ... America. Now it turns out that the replacement of "Corn" is also glued from American fiber ...
  46. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 10 January 2019 22: 00
    +2
    There is no doubt that the domestic replacement of American materials for the MS-21 will appear in the very near future. “As for other materials for the production of black wings, in particular fabrics and some other elements, we will purchase them, for example, in Turkey and China,” said a representative of the Aviation Materials Science Institute directly involved in the MS-21 program. True, we must understand that the manufacture of new "black wings" for this aircraft and their testing, as well as debugging the production and supply system take at least 6 years.
    It is clear that the sale of the MS-21 on the world market will begin no earlier than the middle of the next decade. And this is exactly what the Americans are seeking. It is no secret that the MC-21 will be at least 5% more economical than the existing narrow-body airliners of the latest generation Boeing 737 MAX and Airbus A320neo, which do not have so-called “black wings” and therefore are much less economical to operate. So, the appearance of the MS-21 could greatly reduce the income of American and European aircraft manufacturers. Of course, the world's airlines will not line up for him, but they will require additional discounts from Boeing and Airbus, citing the technical advantages of the new Russian aircraft. This scenario clearly does not suit the United States, which decided by all means to delay the start of sales of the MS-21 for several years. This fits well with the competitors' strategy, since by this time Boeing and Airbus will begin to design new narrow-body airliners with the same “black wings” and accept applications from airlines. And the MS-21 will not be able to stop them.
  47. Bypassed
    Bypassed 10 January 2019 22: 09
    0
    And at the same time in another galaxy:
    Belarusian-Chinese Park "Great Stone". Resident - Composite Structures company. Among the founders of German companies are the world's leading leaders in the production of equipment and technologies for composite products.
    EnergyEfficiencyInvest-Eurasia GmbH (EnergyEurasia)
    Dieffenbacher System-Automation GmbH
    In addition to production buildings, the company includes a research center, a testing laboratory, a workshop of small series.
    The state also took a shoulder - through the Belarusian Innovation Fund.
    The company itself does not produce materials - only finished products, but interaction with enterprises of the republic producing chemical fibers is organized.
    Tasks were issued for the production of experimental batches of specialized chemical fibers and fabrics from them. Negotiations are also ongoing with other chemical industry enterprises on the production of their own starting components.
    Next to the "Composite Structures" is the Minsk airport, with an exit to the take-off, on which the "Mriya" can land, railways and highways.
  48. Berkut154
    Berkut154 10 January 2019 22: 11
    +3
    Everything you need to know about it fits into one video, where they pompously tried to demonstrate their know-how flying taxi-drone, which took off right there ... in front of an amazed audience in the face of the press! All Overweight !!!!
  49. rotfuks
    rotfuks 10 January 2019 23: 03
    0
    As far as I know, the composite is not much lighter than titanium. Tu 160 flies beautifully without composites. And a composite in aviation was invented from poverty. Not all countries have as much aluminum as in Russia. By the way, who is the largest supplier of aircraft aluminum and titanium for Boeing? "Rusal" under the control of Deripaska? Or will composites be closed in Russia, and in the United States, Russian aluminum is pouring river?
    1. lvov_aleksey
      lvov_aleksey 10 January 2019 23: 44
      0
      you're right, the question of price, it’s easier to buy than to do - much less to get and cook.
      and figure it out if you invest 10 years, and then deal with the sale
      1. Alf
        Alf 11 January 2019 18: 50
        +1
        Quote: lvov_aleksey
        a question of price, it’s easier to buy than to make - the more so to get and cook.

        Not easier. Does the example of tsarist Russia mean nothing? They also shouted there, why do we need production, we will sell ... and buy everything. How did it come back to 1MB? And the purchased machine, as a rule, is twice as expensive, and the dependence of the hoo.
    2. D16
      D16 11 January 2019 20: 44
      0
      Not in all countries electricity is cheaper than in Russia. Aluminum and titanium are the electricity embodied in metal. And the farther, the fewer competitors.
  50. lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 10 January 2019 23: 40
    +1
    what do you read, what do you want? it also says that development has been underway since 2014 + it has been voiced from other sources - the general idea (drop off), we will do everything ourselves. ps they are not afraid of us in terms of weapons, and we will surpass them in the economy (here they are afraid)