Creation of airliner MC-21 was under threat due to sanctions

An article was published in the Kommersant newspaper, which describes the problems with the supply of materials for the further production of the Russian MS-21 aircraft. It is reported that the liner manufacturers are faced with the insecurity of composite materials for the manufacture of its wing.

Previously, the contract for the supply of these materials was signed with Japan and the United States, however, due to the US sanctions and their support from Tokyo, the implementation of the contract was actually blocked.

Foreign composites planned to use in the production of the company "Aerocomposite", part of the KLA. Some components were supplied to Russia by Hexcel (USA) and Toray Industries (Japan).

In the material "Kommersant" says that the UAC (United Aircraft Corporation) is searching for a solution to the problem. In particular, together with Rostec, an opportunity is being considered to establish its own production of the required composites. However, in this case, the production of MC-21 will have to significantly shift in time. Plan B is also being considered, which consists of using metals as materials for creating a wing instead of composites.

Earlier it was announced that a composite wing of increased length should be one of the important advantages for the first medium-haul airliner created after the collapse of the USSR.

In Japan, which “wants” to sign a peace treaty with the Russian Federation under certain conditions, it appears that they continue to actively support anti-Russian sanctions, including in the civil sphere.

Comments

[plotnikov561956]

Quite expected surprise ... normal logical series

[Stas157]

. The “plan B” is also considered, which is the use of metals as materials for creating a wing instead of “composites”.

Then it will be another plane. It will not be possible to make a supercritical wing profile. (Thin and long wing)
It is necessary to solve the problem with composites at the state level, as it was with the nuclear bomb at one time, or as it is now with hypersonic weapons.

[depressant]

Stas157, here you need to count. Here "Avisma" - well done, hurry up and establish the production of titanium parts for Boeing. Or have already established. So, maybe they will stamp the wings for our plane. It is unlikely that titanium is heavier than a composite. Here, however, the question of price ...

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Quote: depressant

Here "Avisma" - well done, hurry up and establish the production of titanium parts for Boeing. Or have already established.

The joint venture of VSMPO-Avisma and Boeing Corporation specializes in the production and roughing of titanium stampings for the assembly of the Boeing Dreamliner 737, 777 and 787 aircraft.

[Gogia]

It is necessary to "squeeze" AVISMA in response to US actions. The thing is that this fiber is used in the manufacture of military systems i.e. "At the forefront of technology" therefore problems have arisen.
They knew and wrote about this problem more than a year ago. Chubais to the studio with his nano-technologies.

[bulvas]

The Japanese talked with the Americans began to crush the islands

[AlexG83]

Quote: bulvas

The Japanese talked with the Americans began to crush the islands

Then a piece of news appeared that Russia had transferred the frail part of the gold reserves to the Japanese yen (due to a decrease in the dollar gold reserves), and they were yapping something else. It seems to me that the topic with the islands is a common nonsense, just the hegemon is pressing on them on all fronts. (but it is, just an opinion). :))

[artifact]

Quote: Gogia

It is necessary to "squeeze" AVISMA in response to US actions. The thing is that this fiber is used in the manufacture of military systems i.e. "At the forefront of technology" therefore problems have arisen.
They knew and wrote about this problem more than a year ago. Chubais to the studio with his nano-technologies.

Chewbacca to the wall!

[keeper03]

There must be an instant reaction - stop selling titaniumstop procurement watermelons и Boeing to domestic airlines (well, or increase duties by 50%)! Where is the support of the domestic manufacturer, Medvedev - are you there when you finish your destructive activity!?!

[NEXUS]

Quote: keeper03

There should be an instant reaction - stop selling titanium, stop buying watermelons and Boeing in domestic airlines (well, or increase duties by 50%)!

These are emotions, unfortunately, although understandable. In the scenario that you drew, the answer will be the following - stopping the maintenance of the boards that are already in our airlines, and this, I will tell you by quantity, is not at all sick. And also, the stop of deliveries components for Boeing and Watermelons. The result is a stop or full or partial air transportation over long distances in the Russian Federation, and as a result, transport Ales with a large mountain of losses. And now the question is, do you want this?
To date, long-distance passenger and civilian cargo transportation is carried out for the most part by the Batons and Watermelons, since so far they have no replacement, from the word completely. MS-21 is a medium-haul aircraft, not a long-haul one. And by the end, what do you order then to make the transportation? TU-160-mi, or Ruslans?

[ASX]

No panic! Boeing - show the fact, and the Airbus should, on the contrary, increase supplies. And it’s not a fact that Boeing with a mattress will include the answer according to your scenario. They will understand, squeal and give up when they calculate the loss of babos under unfulfilled contracts. Plus, the internal tension will trample on the Boeing - titanium components just can not be replaced overnight. The plants will rise, the workers too.

[northern]

We will show the fact to Boeing, USA will give EU sanctions, and Airbus will be erased, but oxygen will block us. Such symmetrical answers will become possible when we have our own alternative B and A, but so far it is not, alas.
PS and titanium, by the way, they will find it, it’ll just be a little more expensive than ours, but will, it’s just not a problem.

[ASX]

So our supply not only titanium at the box office, but also finished parts for the Boeing. Titanium mattresses may be found, but replacing finished products of the appropriate quality is a problem. Yes, even if they kill a little time and paper cars with the presidents and get the details, then going through international certification with these replacements will not be so quick and easy.

[northern]

Nevertheless, this is a solvable problem, given that the Russian Federation is not the only manufacturer of these products specifically.

[keeper03]

Nexus, do you know a Russian proverb about a man and thunder ?! Otherwise, we will still be sitting on a needle called a Boeing watermelon! Need to do something useful for our aviation industry, and not stick sticks and drive nails !!!

[Kawado]

The problem is solvable, but time ... time ...
In Russia, diamonds are stamped in batches, a composite can also, but financing and the creation of complex production are necessary, and this is exactly 3 more years.
Although on the other hand - "it's better to lose a day, then fly in 5 minutes"

[Just a passerby]

And heavier and less durable. It will be necessary to recycle the entire wing. And there will be nothing left of all the benefits. The aircraft will not be competitive with foreign counterparts.

[Stalevar79]

The aircraft will not be competitive with foreign counterparts.

If it is made all-metal, then he, like all our equipment, will definitely have no analogues. But then it will be possible to show on the Star TV channel.

[keeper03]

For domestic transportation, no advantages are needed (because the main advantage is jobs and domestic products), at least in the first stages of the liner's life! Produce a series of 50 aircraft let the aircraft industry get off its knees, and then you will think about competitive improvements! They are needed just over the hill, where competitors rule ! And it’s high time to close the access to the bourgeoisie to the domestic market, a maximum of 10% of foreign cars from the total number of airline liners!

[northern]

This series will be gold, for metal is a completely different wing, from the word completely. it's R&D and time again.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Stas157

Then it will be another plane. It will not be possible to make a supercritical wing profile. (Thin and long wing)
It is necessary to solve the problem with composites at the state level

Yes, this is the only solution. Even with a delay.

Metal is the path to inefficiency and non-competitive aircraft.

Maybe the Chinese already have the necessary material?

[Gogia]

Yes, but China also has quality problems ...

[kjhg]

Maybe the Chinese already have the necessary material?

They write that Chinese fiber of appropriate strength is several times thicker than American and Japanese, therefore, it is not suitable.

[Tarhan]

Then it will be another plane.

That's due to the fact that due to sanctions, the supply of foreign components stopped and the Su-57, Armata, Altair sank into oblivion. And not because it’s expensive. What is expensive is an excuse.

[ultra]

Quote: Tarkhan

That's due to the fact that due to sanctions, the supply of foreign components stopped and the Su-57 Armata sank into oblivion

What t-14 and we have composite?

[Tarhan]

What t-14 and we have composite?

The electronic component.

[ultra]

What exactly from electronics to T14 on import?

[Tarhan]

What exactly from electronics to T14 on import?

Well, I'm not an expert. It is electronic components for rangefinders, SLAs, KAZ. SAZ, Optoelectronic Suppression System, etc. etc.

And if not, then tell me why Armata was not allowed into the series, because he rode in parades. What is expensive is an excuse. Rotenbergs, Deripaska and others could donate finances to three tank divisions.

The fact of the matter is that dummies rode around in parades.

[ultra]

I understand that you are not aware of the availability of imported components on this tank?

[ultra]

Quote: Tarkhan

The fact of the matter is that dummies rode around in parades.

Can you prove it?

[ultra]

Quote: Tarkhan

Rotenbergs, Deripaska and others could donate finances to three tank divisions.

Baby talk!

[Tarhan]

Baby talk!

For an adult, explain why there is no Armat, Altairov, Su-57 in the series. After 10 years, propaganda screamed that now, just a little, a little.

And where???

[ultra]

10 years of "shouting"? Why didn't I hear this op? The GPV 2018-2027 provides for the purchase of t-14 and su-57.

[Tarhan]

And why didn’t I hear this op?

What was deaf. Well, if you haven’t heard, so what’s the matter, and do not listen to anything further.

And this is your purchase, as it has been foreseen ten times already. And the Su-57 had long had to fly as part of squadrons and regiments.

[ultra]

Quote: Tarkhan

And this is your purchase, as it has been foreseen ten times already.

This is not mine, but the state one. Can you link 10 times?

[Tarhan]

This is not mine, but the state one. Can you link 10 times?

That's when they get into operation then we'll see.

[ultra]

Quote: Tarkhan

And the Su-57 had long had to fly as part of squadrons and regiments.

Yes, you sho?

[Tarhan]

This is not mine, but the state one. Can you link 10 times?

No, it’s strange, rushing to the face of facts.

If there is no composite even on a civilian plane, where does the composite come from for the fighter with its 9-fold overloads.

And then talk to yourself. Pokedova.

[Stalevar79]

Quote: ultra

GPV 2018-2027 provides for the purchase of t-14 and su-57.

We must speak directly in 2057, and there is either a donkey or a padish ...

[UMA-UMA]

Shaw here, the border troops of the USSR protect the oligarchy

[ultra]

Where did I defend the oligarchy?

[Vadim237]

Armat platform is made of armored steel - there are no composites there.

[KCA]

Just the wings of the MS-21, carbon fiber, from Ulyanovsk

[donavi49]

Half - they are made at JSC Aerocomposite but from foreign materials.

You will have to certify your own - this is 2-3 of the year, since there will be very stringent tests. Without them, even work on the MS-21 certificate is impossible. The result of 25 + year the plane leaves briskly.

Metal in the wing - immediately deprives the entire project of meaning, because it will be economically inefficient in comparison with competitors, even just a flight on a flight. No problems with the service and the new board.

[KCA]

Certification is an ordinary stopper of competitors; many times they wrote about certification brakes during the USSR, who brought the most money, a watermelon or a Boeing, and slippers

[donavi49]

Well here is the complex:
1) We ordered fiber from market leaders. All other options are worse. That is, as a result, the pair will have the worst strength characteristics and as a consequence the question = will there be enough structural reserve or will the wing have to be redone. I put it is not enough - because now the reserves are scanty, because the economic efficiency of the aircraft is important.

2) To create a nanofactory in words and in a layout for Russia 1 is one thing, to create a nanofactory that would make high-quality fiber is another.

3) Even if you give them domestic certification, what will it solve? Sales are closed. X5 modifier insurance (which means tickets too). And what company will contact this, not from under the stick?

[username1234]

The US government does not steer technology, for example, this is a private matter of Boeing and Lockheed.

Why is it necessary to do here through the state? private company - let it spin itself.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: username1234

The US government does not steer technology, for example, this is a private matter of Boeing and Lockheed.

Yeah ... tell it DARPA / ARPA. Remember what is ARPANET?

[northern]

Boeing sits in Congress at home

[Krasnoyarsk]

= “Plan B” is also being considered, which is the use of metals as materials for creating a wing instead of “composites.” =
And you need to work according to plans A, B, C ... at the same time.
Plan "A" is to try to push the Amers and Japs by suspending Avisma's work and putting pressure on the Japanese pain points. I'm sure there are.
Plan "B" - Gathering carbon fiber specialists from all over Russia, set them the task of developing a technology for the production of carbon fiber in Russia.
Plan "B" - Work on temporary replacement of CFRP with metal.

[Campanella]

If the state posed such a problem, then with a high degree of probability it would solve it.
They already talked about the position of the state ... before the sanction in 2014, they had a damn industry of their own, they thought and think like traders.

[Campanella]

Will not work. The composite should be used somewhere, and we practically do not have our own aircraft in operation.
My opinion is that the normal production of IL-96 and Tu-204/214 should be resumed for use primarily on domestic lines, and a warranty repair system should be established. And already breathing in the aircraft industry to solve promising tasks.

[Nevsky_ZU]

Quote: plotnikov561956

Quite expected surprise ... normal logical series

They thought the civilian sector would blow. I don’t understand one thing, there were so many reports as our Russian women gathered these composite wings right by the strings. The plot name I do not remember exactly. As a result, the raw materials are also foreign? Yes, let it already be Tu-214 and IL-96 400m than this hodgepodge. The price of this cooperation? They even spit on profit. No invisible market hand and fair competition code of ethics.

[210ox]

Yes, let it be. We just have to take into account the fact that we already live in a different society. And this aircraft is intended primarily for our PRIVATE airline companies. They do not care about patriotism, they need to count money. How much will it cost to operate, how economical is this aircraft etc..

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

I don’t understand one thing, there were so many reports as our Russian women gathered these composite wings right by the strings.

Nonsense write what women? There is a fully automated production of Austrian technology on European machines.

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

As a result, the raw materials are also foreign?

The best carbon fiber is made in Japan at Toray. We do not have carbon fiber with similar characteristics.

[Nevsky_ZU]

Nonsense write what women? There is a fully automated production of Austrian technology on European machines.

Means mixed up with a plot about a military fighter. There were only laser marks and machine guns, and women were guided along the laser mark.

[Nevsky_ZU]

I found this manual assembly from women of the black wing of the su-57
I admit, not ms-21. But by hand. So partially answered for the bazaar)

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

I found this manual assembly from women of the black wing of the su-57
I admit, not ms-21. But by hand.

Perhaps somewhere still wheat is harvested with sickles and chopped coal with a Kyle. This is from the same series.

[Vadim237]

Su 57 has different composites.

[DenZ]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

The price of this cooperation? They even spit on profit. No invisible market hand and fair competition code of ethics.

It is notable to us, the Russians, that in the early 90s they spun about the invisible hand of the market that will regulate everything. And now we saw this hand with a muzzle in a fist. Now only state. regulation and the will to import substitution can save the situation.

[Pivot]

It’s necessary to chop this market hand, and for a long time. The hand of the market may be present in the production of toilet paper, no more.

[Tarhan]

It is notable to us, the Russians, that in the early 90s they spun about the invisible hand of the market that will regulate everything.

There was no need to bark at this hand.

There China did not bark, but grabbed Western technology, know-how, investment. I didn’t scream about the Chinese world, about Chinese bonds, about getting up from my knees.

And he became, with the help of the West, the second power of the world with 15% of the global economy. And whoever barked has 1,5%. But China in the 80 years had only 1%.

[Glory1974]

I don’t understand one thing, there were so many reports as our Russian women gathered these composite wings right by the strings.

As far as I remember, in the newspaper "Argumenty Nedeli" there was an article that a plant for the production of composite materials was built in Tatarstan. And now they will not only have enough for their planes, but they will also sell them abroad.
Who brechet is not clear.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: glory1974

Tatarstan built a plant for the production of composite materials.

Built a plant for the production of wings from composite materials for the MC21. And materials for the production of composites (carbon fiber and resins) are bought in Japan and the United States.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Puncher

Built a plant for the production of wings from composite materials for the MC21. And materials for the production of composites (carbon fiber and resins) are bought in Japan and the United States.

Recently, there was news to us that they had built an insulin production plant, like now we’ll overwhelm ourselves and the whole world, though the little attribute was small, that we needed to import raw materials from Denmark. It is the same with composite wings - an advanced technology, its own, and raw materials from Japan

[okko077]

How can you build a plant without raw materials? This is a topic for law enforcement agencies with the planting of those who decided to build such a plant. Surnames and dates should be announced, let them get ready for planting .... I won’t be surprised if tomorrow it turns out that the plant itself grew like a mushroom ...

[Gogia]

Do not read Soviet newspapers before eating !!!
Well, the plant, well, vacuum infusion, and whose raw materials ???

[Glory1974]

The information was that it was they who produce it themselves, and not only from other people's raw materials, that’s why the question is, who is brechit?

Rosatom has invested 4 billion rubles. to a new enterprise in Alabuga (Republic of Tatarstan). The capacity of the first line is 1,7 thousand tons. Construction began in 2012, in March 2015 the plant reached the marching line, production reached 1,5 thousand tons. This is only the beginning, it is planned to launch another 3 – 4 similar lines. At this rate, in a few years, carbon fiber production will reach 7 – 8 thousand tons per year. The Russian Federation will be equal to China, will completely cover the needs of industry and begin large-scale deliveries abroad.

[Kent0001]

Surprise? Rather, sabotage, to conclude agreements with openly hostile countries to the Russian Federation! Idiocy, although it is already a tradition - we lose cases in court, imprisoned like on "our" terms by Miller's platinum lawyers. But what about import substitution? Where is it? Or can we only open sawmills using our own equipment?

[23424636]

the fact that they launched the technology with imported components and put it uncontested under the conditions of sanctions is a crime and not a game of fantasies how to overcome the inconvenience of a lockout

[politach-delivery]

But what about import substitution?

Are you okay with import substitution? What are you worried about?

Just panic, like a lib. What a shiz, God forgive me.

[letinant]

Question. Are we still sending titanium to Boeing?

[keeper03]

Yes Yoshkin cat, how much can you step on the same rake ?! !!
What do you want to do, and the plane to fly and in the right amount !!!
Comrade Beria - your way out, well, we can’t cope with the enemies of the people in the government!

[samarin1969]

"... together with Rostec we are considering the possibility of setting up our own production of the required composites."
For another 5 years they will "consider the possibility" ... This is called "acceleration of scientific and technological progress" in Russian.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: samarin1969

For another 5 years they will "consider the possibility" ...

The point is not just carbon fiber, but the required strength characteristics. In this regard, the Japanese are ahead of the planet, the most durable carbon fiber is made in Toray. In order to use carbon fiber of lower strength, but available on the market, the wing must be completely redesigned.

[KCA]

Hope on Toray, but don't make a mistake yourself, I strongly doubt that Toray composites are used in the production of Avangard, there are also their own developments and manufacturers, obviously not titanium in a shell, will burn to hell like tissue paper

[Vadim237]

To create your own composites, you need to contact VIAM.

[KCA]

VIAM has so many developments that yapy and mattresses can only be envied, the problem is in practical implementation, but sanctions help here, too, here: https://topwar.ru/152338-v-rossii-prinjato-reshenie-po- materialam-dlja-kryla-ms-21.html

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: samarin1969

Another 5 years will be "considering the possibility."

Make it faster

[Altona]

Quote: samarin1969

"... together with Rostec we are considering the possibility of setting up our own production of the required composites."

------------------------
And Chubais with his "nana" is again on the sidelines, he does not touch such technologies in any way, as well as Medvedev's Skolkovo.

[Mountain shooter]

Composite production is also in Russia ... And the sanction pressure will only increase ... And when concluding contracts for the supply of anything, it is necessary to take this into account ...

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Composite production is also in Russia ...

So what? It's like declaring that "there is steel production in Russia ...", but the fact that steel is different in characteristics do not care? Carbon fiber is different too.

[Herman 4223]

At least they should have provided an alternative with their composites. For five years, for five years our country has been nightmare with sanctions, restrictions, and other tricks. Even if the desired grade of composite was not even needed to be created, in our country one aircraft factory would be useful in any way.

[Stas157]

If the Japanese do not give a composite - abandon the Japanese cars (Koreans will be happy). And this is a big market, big money! Stop selling crab to Japan (let pollock eat in fish restaurants). Threaten to side with China in all disputes between China and Japan.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Stas157

If the Japanese do not give a composite - abandon Japanese cars

But it’s right, it is necessary for the Far East to stand on its hind legs and begin to smash the local administrations, block railway and airports.
Well done Stasik, just handsome. What is not an offer is gold. You need the government, instead of Putin.

[Stas157]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

it is necessary that the Far East stand on its hind legs and begin to smash

Except you, Sanya, no one will get up there. Moscow riot police have already dealt with fans of the right-handed right-wingers. For expensive, new Japanese cars, there will be no such hype, especially since there is a cheaper alternative (Koreans).

Quote: Consultant

Did you agree with the crab?

From the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, where does it mainly come from? Yes, Crab doesn't mind! Maybe a barbaric, criminal catch will decrease slightly.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Stas157

Except you, Sanya, no one will get up there.

Vladivostok, about 250 thousand Japanese women, Khabarovsk still 150 thousand, Komsomolsk in the area 70 thousand. I won’t count further. It is one thing to raise duties, another thing to ban. And the Moscow riot police will not help.

Quote: Stas157

especially since there is a cheaper alternative (Koreans)

We have very few Koreans here, mostly new left-handed drivers. Both in quality and comfort, they are far from japs. AvtoVAZ our fiery pioneer greetings.
Stas a secret, say you bought yourself a Korean yes

[Stas157]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Stas a secret, say you bought yourself a Korean yes

Well, if a secret, I have a Korean.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Stas157

Well, if a secret, I have a Korean.

But what about the Volga, and Moskvich, also a party. Tyzh ideny As you look into the eyes of the party, rolling on the capitalist trash. They are the imperialists Stas

[Stas157]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

But what about the Volga, and Moskvich, also a party. Tyzh ideny

No, I'm just adequate. And you, Sanya, a kitchen jester, a joker-mocker, in a good way. Without people like you, you're bored with the company!)))

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Stas157

No, I'm just adequate.

Adequate buys japa

Quote: Stas157

. And you, Sanya, a kitchen jester, a joker-mocker, in a good way

Buy from me the best complete works of Vladimir Ilyich

Quote: Stas157

Without people like you, you're bored with the company!)))

Pour in

[Simple]

Sanya, well, at least once in my life there will be a "not Japanese".
Just imagine the prospects!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Simple

Just imagine the prospects!

He was sitting in our car when the gaits were fined. Normal guys, I ask them - how Priora, normal? One asks me-you now decided to make fun I say yes no just asked. In short, from Zhigulevsky only beer!

[Simple]

Now we can cheaply that something German (diesel ) to buy.

Our grandmother got everyone with her ecology.
In the states of Volkswagen, the concern was "heated" on the headstock.
Now the government has decided to win back on us.
Well, as usual in general.
Moreover, measurements were taken in a city where "large" indicators of contamination air in one apartment. Then, gas heating was turned on in the same apartment (it should be noted, here it is strictly checked with gas appliances). As a result, the parameters jumped several times.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Simple

Now we can cheaply buy something German (diesel).

Is it cheap?

[Consultant]

Quote: Stas157

Stop Selling Japan Crab

Did you agree with the crab?

Quote: Stas157

let pollock eat in fish restaurants

They eat fugues there. Bach

[Tarhan]

It was five years, five years our country has been nightmare by sanctions, restrictions, and other tricks.

And what just so nightmare? What sanctions, so unexpectedly, fell from the sky? It was necessary to foresee when political decisions were made.

That when they took away Crimea and sent troops to the Donbass, they thought there would be international applause and loans with new technologies, as a reward, would overwhelm the whole country. And now they are groaning.

[Herman 4223]

They’ve taken for you, but returned for us.

[210ox]

That's right, you need to look for solutions .. First, through China and third countries, while simultaneously setting up production with us.

[bessmertniy]

It is necessary to change the guidelines of international cooperation of the country so as not to depend on the eccentric presidents and governments of the states that impose sanctions on us.

[New Year day]

Quote: bessmertniy

It is necessary to change the guidelines of the country's international cooperation

whom to whom to change in this case?
Aviastar-SP JSC makes:
- fuselage panels,
- tail compartments of the fuselage,
- doors and hatches,
- metal parts of the wing and plumage,
- Performs tail assembly.

[donavi49]

Well, so China itself buys there. If the fact of resale is revealed, sales to China will be closed. He won’t do that.

Own production:
- technology, that is, top materials were laid in the aircraft itself (US resin - fiber from Japan - in the assembly = this is the greatest efficiency, strength, resource life). It’s simply impossible to achieve such technologies right away. These are many years (when, again, market leaders will have better materials) work.

- certification, this is certified material. Creating your own - the entire certification process (2-3 of the year) - until the basic material is certified, no work will be done on certification of the aircraft. That is, at once + 5 years only for certification. And without a certificate of non-commercial transport.

- calculations, again another material = other strength / resource characteristics. It is possible that the reserve from the tops of the market to the domestic lacking analogues is not enough and the wing will have to be redone.

- aluminum wing = zero sense of the aircraft, even in the domestic market. For the flight to the Watermelon / Boeing flight is simply more cost-effective, without even taking on children's problems, + 200-500% downtime on the service and more.

[barsuk]

In short scribe letaku)

[depressant]

What were you thinking about when the need for diversification was announced? Or is a good kick better than a good wish? You won’t get enough of all the pendels!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: depressant

What were you thinking when the need for diversification was announced?

And try to replace everything right away, can you? Or for you to build a bunch of factories that two fingers on the asphalt

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Or for you to build a bunch of factories that two fingers on the asphalt

For the production of high-strength carbon fiber, a well-developed chemical industry is needed, and the technology of its production itself. From nowhere it does not appear.

[Herman 4223]

If there was a will, it’s possible to build, for five years now, under sanctions, such tricks had to be calculated, and the most important thing is that it stirs to do something, the opposite will cost more, will threaten to disrupt expensive contracts, ruin existing enterprises of enterprises. Recently, the Americans blocked a similar incident sales of aircraft to Iran because there are 10% of American products on the plane.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Herman 4223

If there was a will, it’s possible to build

Well built, in factories that need hundreds, who will work? Specialists where to get ???? Why do you have to build a newsstand and a factory is the same thing ???

[Herman 4223]

Oh, and where did the USSR fill specialists when industry was built in the country? And China? Probably taught somewhere. These are all excuses and not pretty stucco, if you want to do everything you can, but water does not flow under a lying stone.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Herman 4223

Oh, and where did the USSR fill specialists when industry was built in the country?

He grew up not in a year or in five years. It is only on the site they demand now and immediately.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Herman 4223

Oh, and where did the USSR fill specialists when industry was built in the country?

In the USA and Germany.

[Corn]

Quote: Herman 4223

Nashol USSR when industry built in the country

Mainly in the USA, Canada, Germany, Central European countries.

Quote: Herman 4223

What about China?

From the USSR, then the USA, it was American business that caused the Chinese economic miracle.

Quote: Herman 4223

with the desire to do everything

probably from ** vna and sticks it is really possible to make a wing for airplanes, but I personally didn’t dare fly on it.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Herman 4223

Oh, and where did the USSR fill specialists when industry was built in the country?

I can tell you where. Here is a list of existing agreements on technical assistance for the People's Commissariat of Industry of the USSR for 1934:

Italy RIV - 1st State Bearing Plant (bearings)
USA Ford - Automobile them. Molotov in Gorky (cars)
England BSA - Moscow Bicycle Plant (bicycles)
Germany Demag - Central Bureau of Heavy Engineering (CBTM) (cranes and hoisting devices)
Germany Demag - CBTM (rolling mills)
Switzerland Sulzer - Soyuzizel (diesel)
Germany Man - Kolomna Plant (diesel)
Germany Erhard and Semmer - Voskhim (compressor)
Germany Stock - plant them. Kalinin (twist drills)
Germany Krupp - Special Steel (quality steels)
England Taylor - Trubostal (seamless wheels)
USA Coppers - Giprokoks (coke ovens)
Germany Demag - Magnitostroy (rolling shop)
France French Aluminum Company - Glavaluminiy (construction of the Volkhov and Dnieper aluminum plants)
Germany Miege - Zaporizhstal (electric furnaces)
Germany Mitke - Gintsvetmet (Faynzink)
England Metro-Vickers - WET (high-power turbine and electrical engineering)
Switzerland Scintilla - Electrical Plant (Magneto)
USA Autolight - Electrical Plant (electrical equipment for automotive tractors)
Italy Omodeo - Hydroelectric Project
Sweden Lubeck - Battery Trust (Alkaline Batteries)
USA Nitrogen - Soyuzazot (ammonia plants)
Germany Ude - Soyuzazot (nitric acid, montan, nitrate, methanol, ammonium nitrate)
Norway Electrokemiska - Special steel (electrodes)
Italy Eternit - Soyuzasbest (asbestos-cement pipes)
France Schlumberger - GAMES (electrical intelligence)
USA Curtis Wright - Aircraft Trust (Aircraft Motors)
Fiat Italy - Plant No. 120 (Foundry Aircraft Plant)
Italy Ansaldo - factory "Bolshevik" (autofretage and lane guns)
USA Sperry - Electrical Plant (specialty)
Germany Deschmag - Central Design Bureau of Shipbuilding (TsKBS) (shipbuilding)
Italy Ansaldo - TsKBS (shipbuilding)
Germany Bauer - TsKBS (marine shipbuilding)

[Vadim237]

Very few people worked on composites in the USSR.

[ultra]

The correct question is “Where to get it?” Only this and many others need to be asked by the current government, which has been at the helm for 19 years and where are the results?

[rayruav]

all the time all the bookmarks that were constantly doing 1993

[rocket757]

Quote: rayruav

all the time all the bookmarks that were constantly doing 1993

Okay, we’ve done bookmarks before .... but what prevented us from starting to correct, to restore the destroyed not when the region became NECESSARY, but to think in advance.
Such a topic as planning, perspective and everything that goes with it, is completely unfamiliar to our top managers, "generals" from the industry ??? Or everyone was soothed with mantras, like our former defense minister, furniture maker / tax officer ..... abroad will help us !!!
HELPED ???

[AUL]

Quote: rocket757

. but what prevented us from starting to correct, to restore the destroyed not when the region became NECESSARY, but to think in advance.
Such a topic as planning, perspective and everything related to our top managers, "generals" from the industry, is completely unfamiliar ???

So we do not have enough effective managers!

[rocket757]

Quote from AUL

So we do not have enough effective managers!

Those. managers we have to fig and more, the only question is their effectiveness ???
If so. The country, these are not effective, robbed very effectively!

[Stoler]

Great and powerful Russian aircraft industry

[Rurikovich]

Pomnitsa, there were exclamations that what for us is agriculture, what for us is industry - the West will give all this (or sell it) ... Nu-nu ... Not so looked at the owner and voila - sanctions (I will not feed for three days ) ...
Taka, Panimash Li, Lyubou
But the first flew into space .... And now we can’t make a plane But in jeans and with cuds ...

[afrikanez]

When will we finally learn to plan clearly, without taking into account any help? Well, for that, do not take everywhere the problems with the supply of components from somewhere.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: afrikanez

When will we finally learn to plan clearly, without taking into account any help? Well, for that, do not take everywhere the problems with the supply of components from somewhere.

today everywhere, almost any production uses components purchased in different countries.
it is necessary not to try to produce a 100% component at home but to do it so that when it is necessary to purchase something it would be where.
and wrapped with a smile.

[depressant]

afrikanez, there was a conversation a few years ago about the need to introduce planning, following the example of the USSR State Planning Commission, highlighting the most important areas as priority ones. How much easier it would be to plan now compared to the Union, taking into account modern digital technology! So either someone’s brains were not enough, or fear arose that everyone’s stupidity would be visible, or it would become more difficult to steal.

[rotmistr60]

Russia is different in that in any even seemingly hopeless situation, it finds not only a way out, but also manages to master a new one. On the other hand, of course, dependence on foreign suppliers under sanction pressure creates problems in production. At the same time, Americans are quietly buying titanium, rocket engines, etc. from us.

[tlauicol]

Quote: rotmistr60

At the same time, Americans are quietly buying titanium, rocket engines, etc. from us.

with permission from co-producer Pratt & Whitney. Rogozin's slogans about trampolines, such slogans ...

[rocket757]

Unpleasant, but this is just another milestone that must be overcome!
Now let's see if there are "brains" in the country, what kind of responsible, national business it is ???
It is clear that if the state had not been wasted on outright thieving nonsense, including and headed by a red hell and others like him who have achievements of micro-nano size, but babosiks do not steal on a micro scale !!! could organize, create a lot of things, the most necessary.
The boom is hoping that extreme need will make WORK with due zeal and skill! Boom to hope !!!

[Aleks2048]

Unpleasant, but this is just another milestone that must be overcome!

Here to these words absolutely agree with you. About the cut of the dough in Rosnano, it’s partially there and the cut is going on, but science is moving a bit, it’s good even in that form, and soon it will be more difficult to find a scientist in the Russian Federation than a black cat in a dark room ...
Rђ RІRѕS,

The boom is hoping that extreme need will make WORK with due zeal and skill!

I do not agree. There is no way to fix the situation with any hard work if the rules are enforced to push our products out of the market. It is necessary to change the rules, but this is not a question for the manufacturer, but for the Russian government.

[rocket757]

Quote: Alex2048

but science is moving a bit

Several scientists / experts, whom I trust a lot more than everyone else, offer clear criteria for evaluating scientific and other activities - and give me a list of YOUR achievements !!! Another added - Let’s balance, YOUR COSTS versus YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS !!!
These people cannot be accused of narrow-mindedness and local interest! Therefore, their assertion that "stirring" and real scientific and technical, technological achievements we still have only in industry, scientific and production centers! Their life makes them WORK, CREATE, otherwise they fall behind and lose EVERYTHING!

Quote: Alex2048

but this is not a question for the manufacturer, but for the government of the Russian Federation.

This is all right, I send all claims to the highest, ruling, owning everything and everything, in our country!

[New Year day]

Quote: rocket757

This is all right, I send all claims to the highest, ruling, owning everything and everything, in our country!

The time for reforms has been lost, super profits from high oil prices in the 2014s were wasted on Olympiads and championships. The government does not want to carry out reforms. There would be such a desire - she would have long sought opportunities and means. In XNUMX, on the wave of patriotic upsurge, there were opportunities for quick mobilization of society, there was trust in the authorities, due to which reforms could be carried out. The authorities did not take advantage of this. The economic and political system of Russia is in an "inoperable" state. That is, when attempts at large-scale changes cause an acute political and economic crisis, loss of control, the situation getting out of control and the formation of a full-fledged revolutionary situation.
And why does the government need this?

[Vadim237]

You better deal with medicine and patients, but do not meddle in macroeconomics too complicated - there are many contradictions in it - "revolutionary situation"

[New Year day]

What time! So just because of the material condition of patients and hospitals you are thinking about macroeconomics.
Or, do you think, the presence of 1 antibiotic in the department brings joy and confidence in today?

[Vadim237]

Allocate money to everyone, decently - but someone steals it on the way or simply does not fulfill its duties.

[New Year day]

Quote: rocket757

The boom is hoping that extreme need will make WORK with due zeal and skill!

Do you think that Medvedev will roll up his sleeves and start working? Hard to believe

[rocket757]

Quote: Silvestr

Do you think that Medvedev will roll up his sleeves and start working?

The iPhone button-press is not considered in any way except for a shovel and large snowdrifts, for all his ban-n-nd-team! I would have used the very top ones too, but no one is ready until no one is ready to take such a step, it’s really Schaub about the case. That sho will have to play the topic with the same cards, only completely beaten need to be thrown off!

Quote: Silvestr

The economic and political system of Russia is in an "inoperable" state.

Those who move, support the working industry, somehow they work, and for themselves, too !!! very close to the authorities, from the uppermost ..... for them, braking, stomping on the spot, although this is not death, the wealth --- they saved up quite a bit, but further movement can be sharply inhibited, or even stopped altogether .
I do not hope for their responsibility, statehood, etc., the instinct of self-preservation just has to work. Not all fools.
In short, there are great doubts about our prospects, but there is still some hope .... absolutely without it.

[New Year day]

I agree with you! Hope dies last.

[Vadim237]

But Medvedev does not build factories and does not seek sales markets, and also he does not develop products.

[rocket757]

The country and all that it has is a CREATING PEOPLE, CREATING EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING!
For some people, our upper taxis are something that is archival, only I absolutely agree with those FIGURES who claim to have proved that those who are now upstairs do not lead our country to development and restoration. With them, stomping on the spot, our limit .... by the way, it is becoming more difficult for people from them to live, and this is a fact that try to refute!
It makes no sense to bring charges, figs with them, but now it’s time for them to give way to those who CAN work as they should.

[Vadim237]

"It's time for them to give way to those who CAN work as they should." - Who is this and where are they from?

[rocket757]

Those who have the answer to the question- Show a list of YOUR achievements.

[jeka424]

But as the most advertised. Another 20 years will be built then it will become obsolete

[Hole puncher]

The “plan B” is also considered, which is the use of metals as materials for creating a wing instead of “composites”.

Then the whole advantage of the MS-21 is lost and its fate will be at the level of the Superjet.

[Strashila]

Actually, what happened, and the expected event happened more than once confirmed by the West, they can not be trusted not only words, but also contracts. The term free market is a utopia, more than once confirmed in practice. I remember in the 90s of the last century, the Iskra plant in Krasnoyarsk then entered the world market with its satellite communications systems, the issue of competition about which they like to talk in the West was simply solved by banning the sale of these products in the West, that’s all the competition. So, according to the situation with the MS-21 or anything new, everything is expected. And about the pleasant, the situation itself is a confirmation in contrast to the statements of the West, the Russian economy and technologies are not so backward if they can take off in foreign markets only with the help of prohibitions, not only in the military-industrial complex, but also in the civilian segment.

[Dazdranagon]

The superjet is already under sanctions, but this one wasn’t even built ... You can’t climb a tree and not tear it off ...

[donavi49]

Well, there’s still a lot of things you can ban by sanctions.

[Vadim237]

Already the third instance is being completed - for certification of airworthiness.

[Lighten]

Very well. Finally, they will launch lines for the production of coal fiber and other plastics

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Levius

Very well. Finally, they will launch lines for the production of coal fiber and other plastics

Is there a production technology for this?

[donavi49]

So already launched. You can go to the nearest household store or order both fibers and resins on the Internet. At home in the oven bake your MS-21 or atmospheric probe on Jupiter . And the manufacturers there are 100500, including Made in Russia.

I just find it difficult to explain, let's go to the electronics:
in Russia do 65nm
procure through reliable sanction-resistant channels 28nm
14nm standard in the world
a certain company - an industry leader is already doing 10нм and the Product has been calculated for this.
revolutionary technology is coming that will give 5-7нм processes.

Actually, you can return to 65 or 28нм. But for this you have to redo the entire product.

[Vadim237]

It seems like Russian companies manufacturing 28nm processors are located in Taiwan.

[donavi49]

Well, I wrote:
RF - 65nm base = guaranteed
Sanction-resistant channel - 28нм, but if very, very, very necessary, then it is possible to close. But this is even after SWIFT.

World standard 14nm.

Industry Leader Launches 10nm Chips.

There is 7nm - already in serial samples.

There is a revolutionary technology 5-nm, but so far only in operation.

Designer (Yak-Irkut) - 10nm chips were laid in this analogy in his airplane. Given that 14nm - at the time of the start of sales will not be very relevant, and also on the horizon then there were 5-7нм.

You can return at least 28nm, at least 65nm. But for this, a significant part of the assembly will have to be redone, because these products do not provide the originally laid down characteristics. And they will also lead to a partial or complete loss of the competitive advantage of the entire product.

Well, something like that by analogy to make it easier.

[Vadim237]

Personally, I as a consumer do not care what technology transistors and microchips are made for - from 65 and below I do not care, the main thing is that the performance would be good. The smaller the element, the more vulnerable it is to static or stray currents.

[iouris]

Quote: Levius

Finally, production lines will be launched.

Who needs them? The main thing is "profit", and in such a small market nothing will develop, because it is unprofitable.

[Sergey Pavlov]

Well, here we are ... What industrial intelligence is doing, it would be necessary to buy / steal documentation and know-how from the Japanese on this topic. Otherwise, this colossal problem cannot be solved in a short time.

[Aleks2048]

If the Russian Federation declares that in the sky of the Russian Federation, apart from aircraft, the owner of which is Russian at least 75%, there will be no foreign-made aircraft carrier, including their transit stay. And will also introduce some percentage share on goods turnover with countries using aircraft that have not been certified in the Russian Federation, the situation will not change. All these certification centers are only needed to push their own manufacturers and remove unfavorable competitors from the market.

[donavi49]

Well, are you ready to pay three times as much money for a ticket? Or five for a parcel?

Without this, a company A having a Tu-204 will be forced to set prices at 200-250% of a company B having a Boeing / Watermelon. Just because such an efficiency of the aircraft. Well, or the prices will be the same - and 100-150% will pay the budget. That is, you too.

[Aleks2048]

You understand that with the described policy this will not come to this and will end a week after such statements from the Russian Federation and the world will put a bolt on the United States.

[donavi49]

And if not? If the world says-well, Russia wants the scenario of the DPRK, well, let it. Plus, to compensate, the United States will sell purchases, say 70-80% of the Watermelons that went to the Russian Federation - to its vassals.

Bluffing, you need to understand what happens if your opponent does not bluff.

[Aleks2048]

And then nothing will happen the products of our aircraft industry as they didn’t take it and will not take it and get resources at a premium. What is it like?

[tlauicol]

and without wings you can’t build?

[New Year day]

Quote: Tlauicol

and without wings you can’t build?

you can build, you can’t fly

[Professor]

The material of Kommersant says that the UAC (United Aircraft Corporation) is seeking a solution to the problem. In particular, together with Rostec, an opportunity is being considered to establish its own production of the necessary composites.

Not so fast. Industrial carbon fiber and, most importantly, the "glue" to it is made by 2-3 bourgeois companies. It is not possible to catch up with them.

However, in this case, the production of MS-21 will have to significantly shift in time. We are also considering “plan B”, which consists of using metals as materials to create a wing instead of “composites”.

But I believe in it. However, the aircraft will lose in its performance characteristics.

There is no alternative to international cooperation today.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/380549/leading-countries-by-carbon-fiber-production-capacity/

[irazum]

Do we need civil aircraft of our own production if we cannot produce domestic components for them? The export potential tends to zero, our airlines are more willing to use Boeing and Airbus, they pay attention to domestic products only when the government turns on the "administrative resource" or scares them. Do you need all this?

[Vadim237]

Of course, we can produce - just open production, small parts for - for the future 1000 aircraft, no one will, in view of the loss-making of this production. They will produce 20–30 planes a year, and these productions will release all the little things for them in one month — what will they do for the remaining 11 months?

[UMA-UMA]

Such a great country, but there are no necessary composites. It’s strange. But seriously, the sanctions are already in their fifth year, and only the state holding has lit up on the key part of the plane, the wing - there is no material. This is of course a panorama. Own production is not deployed, it is too difficult for them, and it will take time. Apparently we will be left without a medium-haul. Sorry, the car was promising.

[spektr9]

So, whoever wrote about the obsolete that 334 in a previous article, so ms-21 flew away under sanctions

[Vadim237]

Instead of Tu 334, there will now be Il 114.

[spektr9]

Instead of Tu 334, there will now be Il 114.

Decided to produce even more obsolete, standing ovation

[Vadim237]

For him, at least, our engines are.

[trophy]

Well, how so !? Sanctions practically do not work and harm only the sanctioners themselves! And import substitution is our all the last 5 years! Well, how so !?

[New Year day]

Quote: Trofim

Well, how so !?

a question that supporters of the current course will not like

[Campanella]

And like this! If necessary, it is possible to deceive the people, giving wishful thinking.
The leadership of Russia through long sanctions led to an understanding of the need to produce its own equipment, but modern technology was not available to our industry.
Because there is no fundamental science, there is no branch science and there is no technological modern equipment ..... Lawyers are at the helm, consider the same "effective" managers!

[Alexey-74]

As one would expect, we are paying for our dependence on imported technologies, which we are not yet able to create.

[Homegoblin]

And let's wait for comments from people who are aware of work on the MS-21? ... and that is, the opinion is not so sucks as it is written in the "merchant" ....

[donavi49]

The wing is made by Aerocomposite JSC, but the resins are purchased in the USA, and the fiber in Japan. The MS-21 wing was designed for this pair, which gives out high operational and strength characteristics. Anyhow, what kind of fiber of the before last generation and resin - will give a different result = that is, most likely there will not be enough reserve and you will have to redo the wing. Or make it composite panels (that is, partially composite).

This is the price - for the innovation and competitive advantage inherent in the project, but industry leaders in focusing on companies.

[Bypassed]

Belarusian-Chinese Park "Great Stone". The resident is the Composite Structures company. Among the founders, German companies are world leaders in the production of equipment and the composite products themselves.
EnergyEfficiencyInvest-Eurasia GmbH (EnergyEurasia)
Dieffenbacher System-Automation GmbH
What is the problem? We open an order for production and you will be happy.

[donavi49]

Do they produce fiber and resin, which will give the desired strength at a certain layer weight? Not? Then it makes sense to turn to them. There is a specific wing - which was made for a specific fiber and resin (industry leaders) - which made it possible to obtain a competitive advantage (it is easier to wing with a smaller profile - high strength and with a good resource). Other materials (if they do not go to the structural reserve) = new wing.

[Bypassed]

Absolutely complete ignorance of the technological capabilities and resources of such an agrarian country as Belarus, which has satellites and assembles new turnkey missile systems in two years. This company already cooperates with enterprises of the republic that produce chemical fibers. You give an order - in six months you will receive the necessary new fiber with technical documentation. Next to "Composite Structures" is the Minsk Aircraft Repair Plant. in the exit for takeoff. on which "Mriya" can sit. Material is secondary. The company has the most modern equipment and a scientific center. You won't buy this equipment - sanctions.

[Operator]

Import substitution is necessary, and not wagging the tongue.

[New Year day]

Quote: Operator

Import substitution is necessary, and not wagging the tongue.

so it is NECESSARY to work, and when to fuss?
Did you manage to eliminate dependence on Nikolaev "Zarya"? And already 5 years have passed.

[New Year day]

not only the MS-21 is crushing. By the way, the long-range MS-21 flies for lack of its own on American Pratt & Whitney engines.. So the problem is not only in the wing.
The United States has blocked the sale of Russian Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ-100) Russian short-haul passenger aircraft to Iran. In the production of the SSJ-100, more than 22% of US-made parts are used. According to company estimates, the production of the SSJ-100 is cost-effective when selling at least 30–32 conventional liners per year. And five more - in VIP configuration. In 2018, only 26 aircraft were manufactured.
The problem concerns not only the SSJ-100. So, the combat training Yak-2010, which was adopted in 130, is even more dependent on Western Europe, in the cooperation with which it was made.

[Cook]

And what, in Iran, the light converged wedge, or what? Thailand and Indonesia were not banned from delivering, as were Mexico and Ireland. I think that even without Iran, which by the way also twists the tail very much, there will be plenty of orders. There AFL, another hundred SSJ ordered, for the development of regional transport. Like it or not, 170 aircraft have already been released ...

[New Year day]

The light did not converge in Iran. But from this American components will not become less

[Cook]

Why is this? As far as I know, APU is already being changed to Russian. They will also put drive generators and hydraulic pumps, and the share of American components will fall. I do not see any particular problems here. the Americans, as well as for the GSS, in the same way hinder the supply of Airbus to Iran. Because they are also full of American-made equipment. And by the way, for a large number of equipment items, there are options from several suppliers.

[sebur]

Quote: Levius

Very well. Finally, they will launch lines for the production of coal fiber and other plastics

Sometimes it's better to keep silent

[Cook]

I would, with great caution, relate to publications in Kommersant. Sources of information, they traditionally do not disclose. I don’t think that everything is so bad, at least neither the KLA nor the government see any special problems in organizing the mass production of the MC21. And yes, it still needs to be certified.

[Cook]

Here by the way, TASS reports:
MOSCOW, January 10. / TASS /. The United Aircraft Corporation has not refused and does not plan to abandon the use of composite materials in the wing structure of the MS-21 airliner. This was reported to TASS in the press service of the UAC.

[ZVS]

It turns out that Russia does not know how to produce composite materials ?! And what do our Nobel laureates with Chubais do in the Thieves Valley?

[Ros 56]

We all know how, look at the Su-57, look at the Mi-26 blades. It's not about skill, it's about people.

[spektr9]

We all know how, look at the Su-57, look at the Mi-26 blades. It's not about skill, it's about people.

Is this why we are collecting su-57 and mi-26 in single copies?

[Ros 56]

It's not the quantity, but the technology, and we have them. I say again: the matter is in the system, the matter is in people, in the government, which is neither fish nor meat. Which does not know a damn where to go, what to do first, what to postpone for later. Only talk about the last car and no systemic matters.

[Victor1]

Il114, Tu334, Tu214, Il96 modified versions of these aircraft must be made,
Well, MC21 until better times, until we ourselves begin to make the necessary materials.
Replace airplanes and Boeing with our aircraft.
Is it ineffective? but because of such "efficiency" we will generally lose aircraft construction.

Well, in response to the sanctions, cut off the supply of titanium parts for the Boeing and the airbus, do not care that they will eventually find measurement from others, but they will sit on their ass for a year.
Also break off relations on the ISS and separate your segment from the "international" one.
That would be a blow to the nose, albeit partially to the detriment of themselves, but sooner or later they will still refuse our services, and you can throw problems at them in advance, let them feel the "sanctions".

The bureaucrats, the oligarchs and other friends of Putin are turning billions, they would be a little pressed out for the needs of aviation and the state ..
But the Kremlin will not agree to this, most likely they will go to the West to lick their ass, than the "respected" parasites will invest at least a penny of money. They will die themselves, but they will not invest a dime on the needs of the country.

[Campanella]

The situation in aviation clearly shows the state of Russian industry and science! Thanks to the gentlemen for the reforming rulers!
Before optimized.

[egsp]

It has long been clear that no one will give us anything and they will crush us. As long as the world is ruled by the dollar, it will be so. And why do we need "rusnano" if it is impossible to apply its developments (if they exist, of course). The invisible RED hand of the market should be in prison.
"Own" (as they say) can not be handed over, but simply removed from business.

[Ros 56]

How is titanium for Boeing doing? Is everything okay, do we supply? I would like to take someone, but put a dumb little head against the wall to enlighten thoughts.

[prior]

Favorite Russian occupation - running a rake received another confirmation.
Only its production will ensure independence.
Games in cooperation with international cheaters are always downloaded with one pose - knee-elbow.

[Berkut24]

Oh, what is it "Kommersant" did not publish the second half of the article, where the responsible persons said that this is nonsense?

[Sunder]

См. http://tcj.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2015-06-50-53-neftehimia-uglevolokno-suver.pdf
There is a possible explanation

[Evil 55]

Well, this is a natural continuation of the anti-Russian hysteria .. In the "Superjet" more than 10% of the components are made by the hands of Latinos in the United States .. On closer examination, the Russians in that plane will only have the crew. I would not be surprised if the design of the MS-21 was also oriented towards "foreign" cooperation.

[donavi49]

More than 30% of foreign at the start, including engines. Then they will reduce. Here are the main partners.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

They started moving only after the supply of materials to the West and Japan was stopped, sadly, this should be expected.

There is only one way out - to establish our own production of composites. This is a strategic material for the aircraft industry.

As far as I know, composites are also used in new combat aircraft. Is it interesting for military aircraft that we also buy composites in the USA and Japan?

[Waldemar]

Instead of taking composites from the same Rosatom, they buy them in America. import remarkable

[cockroaches]

Quote: Ros 56

How is titanium for Boeing doing? Is everything okay, do we supply? I would like to take someone, but put a dumb little head against the wall to enlighten thoughts.

Not a problem, and then do not forget to personally explain to the Avisma workers that you need to tighten your belts. And then, in words, your whole ury patriotic gang has bombed the whole world and traveled on Armata.

[Rusj]

And what's wrong? And all the prowlers and liberals shout everything is gone! Only while here, from our trampoline of Amerikosy, space also has Hypersonic missile systems and so on. And our nuclear industry is the best in the world, from which the whole world is already 50 years behind, and much more can be listed. Lots of !!! And even without ARMATA on the T90 we are driving everyone and horror is catching up and Armata is for the future.

[iouris]

Even the An-2 flies with an American engine.

[Vladimir Teplov]

Well, all this was expected. It is not clear why this is not understood in the government? Grudinin was right, the government lives in a parallel world

[georggy]

The problem isn't just about the SSJ-100. Thus, the Yak-2010 combat trainer put into service in 130 is even more dependent on Western Europe, in cooperation with which it was made. The promising long-range MS-21, which has not yet completed the test program, for lack of its own, flies on American Pratt & Whitney engines.

[Rusj]

Amerikosy finished downs! Directly force us to the end all our production facilities to modernize and restore. They force us to force us to make technological breakthroughs in all sectors and kicks us into having all production cycles. Amerikosy do it yourself with SUPER POWER, like the USSR.

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

Quote: Rusj

Amerikosy finished downs! Directly force us to the end all our production facilities to modernize and restore. They force us to force us to make technological breakthroughs in all sectors and kicks us into having all production cycles. Amerikosy do it yourself with SUPER POWER, like the USSR.

We'll have to make a lot of work, in the 90s, we first killed the KHV (521) (chemical fiber plant) and the new ZSV plant (synthetic fiber plant).

[Old26]

Quote: keeper03

There must be an instant reaction - stop selling titaniumstop procurement watermelons и Boeing to domestic airlines (well, or increase duties by 50%)! Where is the support of the domestic manufacturer, Medvedev - are you there when you finish your destructive activity!?!

You are our wise. Deny is the only way out that you see? Well, the Americans will start buying titanium in China and we will fly out of this market and fly "like plywood over Paris." Stop buying Boeings and Airbuses? I would be in favor with both hands if there was something domestic on which to fly. And not in 5-10 years, but today. For on a business trip you need to fly today or in a week, and not in 10 years
Raising duties is the same. The number of passenger sides will be reduced, but the problem will not be solved. It was necessary to do this all these years, and not work exclusively on your image. And the extreme here is not only Medvedev ...

Quote: Olgovich

Maybe the Chinese already have the necessary material?

They say that the Chinese have a thread. But heavier and thicker. As for the quality - I do not know

[Paul Bayan]

Sorry for the grayness ..... why foreign fiber in armature? I would come up with an anti-fiber example .....

[Awaz]

here it’s not even a matter of sanctions .. They certainly affect the development of the aircraft, but the root cause of the failure is the public, which manages this and other failed and not very projects. Most likely, the subject with composites, the KLA is trying to justify its failure to meet deadlines.
Here, talk to knowledgeable people ...

[Fevralsk. Morev]

In Ukraine, I’ve gone too far, and here it’s called another breakthrough. Fifth year kind of sanctions, peppy reports on import substitution and such greetings. Extra evidence that the current regime is comprador and rotten through and through. There are no more explanations.

[Alexander I]

The US blocked the sale of Sukhoi SuperJet to Iran because... there the share of imports is generally 70%, and in general there is such a thing as international certification where they also bend whoever they want.

[Radical]

Quote: depressant

Stas157, here you need to count. Here "Avisma" - well done, hurry up and establish the production of titanium parts for Boeing. Or have already established. So, maybe they will stamp the wings for our plane. It is unlikely that titanium is heavier than a composite. Here, however, the question of price ...

Or maybe it would be easier to do it - parts for Boeing in exchange for composites...?

[Stalevar79]

We need to turn on Russian ingenuity, as Zadovnov said. Look, our people in Syria, under sanctions, calmly wrap a tourist navigator from Aliexpress with an elastic band and fly around it, tea not mattresses. We must not panic, but learn from them and also come up with something with composites...

[Vodka and Meldonium]

Use wing technologies from the Avangard, increase the speed of the MS-21 to 10 Max!