Military Review

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is discussing the issue of increasing the series of frigates of the type “Admiral Gorshkov”

127
The Russian military department and the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) continue to discuss the issue of increasing the series of ships of the type "Admiral Gorshkov" (project 22350) from four to six units, reports Mil.Press FlotProm citing sources in the shipbuilding industry.




According to the interlocutor, we are talking about opening a credit line. This issue is within the competence of the Russian government.

Another industry source confirmed this information, but noted that he did not know whether the manufacturer (Severnaya Verf) received additional funding.

He said that initially it was planned to lay at least eight frigates of this project, but then their number in the program until 2020 was reduced to six, and as a result, only four ships were laid.

Until now, despite the behind-the-scenes talk, there are no two units in the plans of the state defense order, the source added.

Recall that in August 2018, the general director of Severnaya Verf, Igor Ponomarev, said that the enterprise is capable of building 8 ships of project 22350 at the same time.

Earlier, the former commander-in-chief of the Navy, Viktor Chirkov, noted that the Russian the fleet at least 18 Admiral Gorshkov-class frigates and 36 Project 20380 (20385/20386) corvettes are needed.

Project 22350 multipurpose ships were developed at the Severny PKB. Their displacement is 5 thousand tons, length - 135 m, width - 16 m. Speed ​​- up to 29 knots, autonomy - up to 30 days. The frigate is armed with 16 Caliber or Onyx missiles, as well as the Polyment-Redut anti-aircraft system.

Project 22350 should be replaced by project 22350M, which was named "Super-Gorshkov" among shipbuilders. At the end of 2018, Severnoye PKB received an order for the preliminary design of the updated ships. The work should be completed by November of this year.
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org
127 comments
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  1. faiver
    faiver 9 January 2019 11: 25
    +13
    discuss it kanesh good, build then when will they start?
    1. Spartanez300
      Spartanez300 9 January 2019 11: 49
      +11
      Six units for a country like Russia with its sea expanses that need to be protected, it's not even funny but bitter.
      1. faiver
        faiver 9 January 2019 11: 52
        +2
        I agree, about anything ...
      2. alexmach
        alexmach 9 January 2019 12: 03
        +22
        6 units is 2 units better than 4. And infinitely better than having nothing at all.
        1. svp67
          svp67 9 January 2019 14: 21
          0
          Quote: alexmach
          6 units is 2 units better than 4. And infinitely better than having nothing at all.

          But 12 points worse than 18
      3. Serg65
        Serg65 9 January 2019 12: 50
        +3
        Quote: Spartanez300
        it's not even funny but bitter

        How much do you need?
        1. faiver
          faiver 9 January 2019 12: 56
          0
          4 fleets, at least two combat-ready per fleet, respectively, three for each fleet at least ...
          1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
            Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 9 January 2019 13: 20
            +9
            Quote: faiver
            4 fleets, at least two combat-ready per fleet, respectively, three for each fleet at least ...

            You need at least six frigates of project 22350 for each fleet (6 pieces one brigade). At least for a brigade of frigates in the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet.
            1. faiver
              faiver 9 January 2019 13: 22
              +1
              well, six frigates, two aircraft carriers, and so on bully
              1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
                Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 9 January 2019 13: 27
                +8
                6 frigates are very few. Here is an example: the North 68 exercise of the Northern Fleet - about 300 warships and vessels (of which 80 are submarines) and about 500 aircraft;
                - Exercise of the USSR Navy "Ocean" (1970) - only in the far zone there were 80 submarines (of which 15 nuclear), 84 surface ships and 45 auxiliary ships, aviation - 8 regiments (14 regiments of sorties), that is, at least 300-400 aircraft ... In total, aviation carried out 5,5 thousand sorties, 752 refueling with the transfer of 4 thousand tons of fuel.
                And where did they come in 2018:
                The event involved 36 warships, submarines and support vessels. During the exercise, 19 practical firing is planned, including with the participation of the Marshal Ustinov missile cruiser. The gathering trip, which started in the Barents Sea today, will be the largest in the last ten years. In addition to Marshal Ustinov, the large anti-submarine ship Severomorsk, the destroyer Admiral Ushakov, the large landing ships Alexander Otrakovsky, George the Victorious and Kondopoga, as well as nuclear submarines, are taking part in the exercises. In addition, about 20 aircraft will be involved.

                https://vvprf.ru/news/severnyy-flot-nachal-masshtabnye-ucheniya.html
                1. faiver
                  faiver 9 January 2019 13: 38
                  0
                  exercises of the Northern Fleet "North 68" - about 300 warships and vessels (of which 80 are submarines) and about 500 aircraft;
                  - well, you still remember about 20000 tanks, Russia is not the USSR
                  1. Starover_Z
                    Starover_Z 10 January 2019 11: 26
                    0
                    Quote: faiver
                    exercises of the Northern Fleet "North 68" - about 300 warships and vessels (of which 80 are submarines) and about 500 aircraft;
                    - well, you still remember about 20000 tanks, Russia is not the USSR

                    Yes, Russia is not the USSR, unfortunately ... But ungrateful freeloaders also diminished!
                2. Serg65
                  Serg65 9 January 2019 14: 22
                  +1
                  Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
                  And where did they come in 2018:

                  Well, first of all, my dear Aristarchus, why keep such an armada of ships in the Northern Fleet in 20018? In addition, Ustinov will completely replace not 70, but 50% of the ships of the 70th model! Well, God bless him, the main thing is why ???
              2. Serg65
                Serg65 9 January 2019 14: 17
                +2
                Quote: faiver
                well, six frigates, two aircraft carriers, and so on bully

                And what are you going to do with 3 frigates at the Pacific Fleet? To arrange a parade?
                1. faiver
                  faiver 9 January 2019 14: 22
                  +2
                  yes the same as Aristarchus six hi
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 9 January 2019 14: 49
                    +1
                    Quote: faiver

                    yes the same as Aristarchus six

                    Uh, 6 not 3 !!! At the Pacific Fleet at least 3 in Texas and 3 in Petropavlovsk!
                    1. faiver
                      faiver 9 January 2019 15: 39
                      0
                      you first build six, and then start distributing, and it is easiest to divide the skin of an unkilled bear hi
                      1. Serg65
                        Serg65 10 January 2019 06: 47
                        0
                        Quote: faiver
                        build six to begin with

                        what And you are not like aisles?
              3. turbris
                turbris 9 January 2019 19: 41
                +1
                Well, of course, the more, the better - let's rivet a bunch of them, and then hand them over for scrap, for lack of money for their maintenance. Well, to satisfy our own ego, let's start comparing the Russian Navy with the Soviet Navy.
            2. Serg65
              Serg65 9 January 2019 14: 16
              +2
              Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
              At least for a brigade of frigates in the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet.

              This is closer to the truth! hi
            3. Alexander Galaktionov
              Alexander Galaktionov 9 January 2019 14: 30
              +2
              I agree on a brigade of frigates for the Northern and Pacific Fleets plus 3 frigates for the Black Sea Fleet, since only 3 frigates of project 11356 were built instead of six
            4. Ros 56
              Ros 56 9 January 2019 14: 44
              +4
              And what will 6 ships do in the Black Sea and the Baltic? Just showing off?
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 9 January 2019 14: 51
                +2
                Quote: Ros 56
                And what will 6 ships do in the Black Sea

                Tours to Tartus will be tourists!
              2. Sandor Clegane
                Sandor Clegane 9 January 2019 15: 04
                0
                Quote: Ros 56

                And what will 6 ships do in the Black Sea and the Baltic?

                to go to Syria .... and accompany to Kaliningrad!
                1. Ros 56
                  Ros 56 10 January 2019 09: 53
                  -1
                  Good luck, especially don't get lost on your way to Kaliningrad.
                  1. Igor V
                    Igor V 10 January 2019 11: 21
                    0
                    Quote: Ros 56
                    Good luck, especially don't get lost on your way to Kaliningrad.

                    Did it ever occur to you that all but two of the Baltic Sea countries are NATO members? And the two remaining are conducting joint exercises with NATO and do not hide their love and devotion. In such a "dense forest" it won't take long to get lost, without a fleet.
                    1. Ros 56
                      Ros 56 10 January 2019 11: 23
                      0
                      For these idiots, there will be enough RTOs with "Calibers", they freeze during peaceful exercises and sink their ships.
          2. sivuch
            sivuch 10 January 2019 10: 06
            -1
            In fact, there are two fleets (in fact, and not by name), but there you need not 2 pieces, but at least 4-6
      4. greshnik80
        greshnik80 9 January 2019 13: 25
        -6
        How many of those maritime boundaries do we have? Three puddles in the west and south, a small area near the Kola Peninsula and the Pacific coast. In fact, you only need to protect the east coast and a little in the north, with the protection of the rest of it you can do with coastal / aviation means and small ships.
        1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
          Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 9 January 2019 13: 40
          +6
          Quote: greshnik80
          with the protection of the rest of it, you can do with coastal / aviation means and small ships.

          And the cover of the RPKNP? Each of our SSBNs carries 16 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), for a total of 176 ICBMs. According to the START-3 treaty, the Russian Federation (like the United States) has the right to keep deployed 1 warheads. Almost half of our strategic nuclear forces. At the same time, to cover 550 strategic missile submarine cruisers, the Pacific Fleet today has one multipurpose nuclear submarine of the 5rd generation "Kuzbass". A SSBN without cover is a cat in a felt boot, deaf and blind, he will not be able to defend himself against the American multipurpose nuclear submarines of the 3th generation, of which there are already 4 units in service.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 9 January 2019 14: 23
          +2
          Quote: greshnik80
          In fact, you only need to protect the east coast and a little in the north, with the protection of the rest of it you can do with coastal / aviation means and small ships

          it is necessary to protect everything and everywhere - there is no alternative.
      5. Kawado
        Kawado 9 January 2019 15: 27
        0
        It is for a country like Russia with regards to frigates that it is normal, if not unnecessary.
        And not 6, but 5 (and + two are still in question, i.e. maybe 7) + 3 frigates of project 11356 - admirals Grigorovich, Essen, Makarov ...
        The project also includes a new aircraft carrier, helicopter carriers, many coastal ships and various submarines. And slowly modernizing the admirals Nakhimov and Kuznetsov ...

        Ships of the Frigate class and higher are needed for strike groups, a couple of such frigates for each fleet is still quite enough, there is definitely no point in chasing America yet, you can get into a huge debt hole. The fleet must be balanced and efficient, not stupid and costly.
        For example, the Americans uselessly drive huge aircraft-carrying barges across the ocean - they scare the Papuans and sharks ... the barges devour half of the country's military budget, and in a real battle with a strong enemy, they may be sunk by some diesel submarine or some small corvette with calibers. .. (Well, or how the Germans would shove their superlinker Tirpitz into some forgotten bay and camouflage it tightly until the end of the war.)
    2. venik
      venik 9 January 2019 12: 39
      +3
      Quote: faiver
      discuss it kanesh good, build then when will they start?

      ========
      Well, Duc how to "discuss" finish, and start! Well, to be honest, the question is NOT EASY! Money is limited, but it is NECESSARY to build !! And - EVERYTHING! And submarines and surface ships, and an auxiliary fleet ... In short - EVERYTHING!!! (So ​​much time was lost !!! "Perestroika" with "grabbing", her mother !!!). Now - "disentangle"! am ) .....
      1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
        Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 9 January 2019 12: 46
        +6
        Quote: venik
        Money is limited, but it is NECESSARY to build !!

        There are no gearboxes for Project 22350 frigates yet. PJSC "Zvezda" has failed the plan for the production of gearboxes. While trying to copy Ukrainian gearboxes. Petersburg businessman Pavel Plavnik, head and co-owner of NPK Zvezda JSC, has already left the Karakurt MRK without diesel engines.
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 9 January 2019 12: 59
          -8
          Yes, it's clear - where are we, the savages from the gas station.
          You would have written something else for a change. Your nation is usually more cunning.
          1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
            Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 9 January 2019 13: 04
            +3
            Quote: Mestny
            You would have written something else for a change. Your nation is usually more cunning.

            Sergei Jews have been leading and have been in charge of PJSC "Zvezda" since the 90s. Former leader Pavel Plavnik was unable to ensure the production of diesel engines, while he signed contracts with shipyards. Now the new owner of PJSC "Zvezda" Dmitry Pumpyansky continues his business. Fin at another enterprise left the series of MRK Karakurt without diesel engines.
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 9 January 2019 14: 25
            +1
            Quote: Mestny
            Yes, of course - where are we, the savages from the gas station

            Well, tell us, when will import substitution in this direction take place? It's 2019. It is 5 years after the Maidan. Or just slogans?
        2. Sotskiy
          Sotskiy 9 January 2019 13: 04
          +4
          Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
          Pavel Plavnik, head and co-owner of NPK Zvezda, has already left the Karakurt MRK without diesel engines. It looks like the frigates will be the same.

          Is this the very effective public-private partnership?
          1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
            Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 9 January 2019 13: 12
            +4
            Quote: Sovetskiy
            Is this the very effective public-private partnership?

            Pumpyansky, Plavnik, Aven, Vekselberg, Lisin, Fridman are all the Jewish business elite of Russia. Draw your own conclusions.
            1. Sotskiy
              Sotskiy 9 January 2019 13: 21
              +1
              Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
              Pumpyansky, Plavnik, Aven, Vekselberg, Lisin, Fridman are all the Jewish business elite of Russia. Draw your own conclusions.
              Reply

              I am not interested in nationality, I am interested in the structure of a system that favors private "business" in the military-industrial complex.
              So, on the subject of a Soviet joke:
              Moishe got a job as a storekeeper at a household appliances warehouse.
              Arriving at the personnel department, they explain to him his rights and obligations:
              - Your salary will be 120 rubles a month ...
              Moishe:
              - How!? They also pay salaries ?!
        3. venik
          venik 9 January 2019 15: 02
          +2
          Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
          Pavel Plavnik, head and co-owner of NPK Zvezda, has already left the Karakurt MRK without diesel engines. It looks like the frigates will be the same.

          =======
          Tipun to your tongue, "Aristarkh Ludwigovich" !!! The same thing was said about "Polyment-Redut" until recently (I don't mean you) .... If gearboxes cannot be produced in Russia ..... Well, "diesel" is still understandable, but so that gearboxes cannot be produced. .. This, excuse me - "bust"!!!
    3. Uralean
      Uralean 9 January 2019 13: 47
      +1
      When the Russian plants begin to produce engines in the required quantity. So far, their piece production is not enough to complete more Frigates .. Because of this, they sold two unfinished frigates to the Indians .. But still, with the increase in capacity for the production of gas turbines, the frigates will go for release in larger quantities ..
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 9 January 2019 13: 59
      0
      Project 22350 should be replaced by project 22350M, which was named "Super-Gorshkov" among shipbuilders.

      The author does not understand at all what he is writing about. What is the replacement of 22350 with 22350M? These are ships of a different class in general. In terms of displacement, Super-Gorshkov is no longer a frigate, but rather a destroyer.
      Shoigu then clearly said that the main surface attack platforms of the RF far zone will be the ships of projects 22350 and 22350M. That is, both platforms!
      And the same series of Gorshkovs should be brought to at least a series of 20-25 ships, taking into account 4 fleets.
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 9 January 2019 15: 20
        +2
        They are both destroyers. Gorshkov, in addition to having already grown to the first class, is so much stronger than our old destroyers Sarych. It seems that no one doubted that the 956 project was destroyers?
        As far as I understand, the 22350m will differ from the baseline project in the first place in its large displacement and ammunition. Also internal logistics. It is not yet clear about the GEM. Perhaps it will remain the same. The modernization project has just begun to be developed. Just build 2 more ships of the main project and bring the number of frigates to the normal number of 6 ships, that's right. By the time the construction is completed, the modernization project will be ready and it will be possible to lay the next batch already according to the 22350m project.
        The commander-in-chief spoke about 18 ships of both projects and 36 corvettes 2038x. All fleets. I'll try to swang. SF - 6 frigates of the main project and 6 modernized ones. And 6 projects 22350m for the Pacific Fleet. In principle, it would not hurt for the Pacific Fleet another 6 pieces and another 6 pieces for the Black Sea Fleet. The Baltic and the Caspian Sea do not need them in principle. PM 6 ships of the main project and 24 of the modernized - the very thing. After all, you don't have to order everything at once. You can place new orders as the ships are built.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 9 January 2019 15: 27
          +1
          Quote: g1v2
          They are both destroyers.

          Not really. 22350 is a frigate. The fact that it is more powerful than the Saryches only speaks of the might of the arsenal. I'm talking about the displacement. And by this criterion, the Gorshkov is a frigate, and the Super-Gorshkov is closer to the destroyers. But in one thing you are right, now all these concepts are very conventional and vague. There are also corvettes with a displacement for a good frigate.
          1. g1v2
            g1v2 9 January 2019 16: 25
            +1
            Full displacement - 5400. Above 5k - this is already the first rank. It is commanded by capraz - Krokhmal Igor Mikhailovich. Tch is already a ship of the first rank. At least officially.
            As for the destroyer, the frigate agrees that the lines between them are very blurred. The Persians, for example, have destroyers the size of our corvettes. And so our frigate Gorshkov in displacement and armament almost completely copies the Japanese destroyers of the Hatakaze, Murasame or Takanami projects and is seriously larger than the Asagiri project. But they have destroyers, and we have 22350 frigates. SuperGorshkov is a destroyer in general in all respects.
    5. Kawado
      Kawado 10 January 2019 10: 24
      0
      Two have already been built and they have not stopped building yet ...
  2. Orkraider
    Orkraider 9 January 2019 11: 26
    +8
    Lord!
    Put the right thought into your mind, and don't let Super Gorshkov obscure it.
    God grant that they place an order for 4 more Admirals, even if they will not enter service soon, but sooner or later they will replenish the fleet.

    And the rumors are positive!
    good
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 9 January 2019 11: 32
      +4
      Quote: Orkraider
      Lord!
      Put the right thought into your mind, and don't let Super Gorshkov obscure it.
      God grant that they place an order for 4 more Admirals, even if they will not enter service soon, but sooner or later they will replenish the fleet.

      I join your prayer / proclamation! hi
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 9 January 2019 13: 08
        +4
        Quote: bouncyhunter
        I join your prayer / proclamation!

        Calm down gentlemen / comrades / friends! The production of a domestic gas turbine engine has begun, but for whom? For steam locomotives or what? No engine - no ship, there is an engine - there is a ship. Spakuha!
        1. Old bun
          Old bun 9 January 2019 13: 45
          0
          Let's pray together!
          Where six is ​​there and eight, and where eight is there, and the appetite should come, which wakes up during eating
    2. bessmertniy
      bessmertniy 9 January 2019 11: 34
      +1
      And also, Lord, send us money! wink To have enough for everything.
      1. Koval Sergey
        Koval Sergey 9 January 2019 11: 45
        +5
        Quote: bessmertniy
        And also, Lord, send us money!

        Some comrades need to be deprived of their possessions - they will immediately add money.
        1. Hypersound
          Hypersound 9 January 2019 12: 59
          -2
          Quote: Sergey Koval
          Some comrades need to be deprived of their possessions

          Then, alas, a civil war will begin. But Putin at least knocked out 6 trillion investments from them, if memory serves. A kind of compromise that everyone agreed to
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 9 January 2019 14: 28
            +1
            Quote: Hypersound
            Then, alas, a civil war will begin.

            Will Vekselberg and Abramovich climb the barricades? This is why we need a special tax for this public.
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 9 January 2019 11: 56
        +14
        Quote: bessmertniy
        And also, Lord, send us money! wink To have enough for everything.

        Yesterday I watched a movie, where the main character said: "The question is not how much to earn, but how much to spend." As long as our owner of a 10-strong enterprise will "earn" as much as all his 10 subordinates, and his "top management" - another three-quarters of this - until then we will not have enough money for anything. For now, the head of Russian Railways (a thing of the past, but indicative) will sell cars to his son's office for junk money, and then rent these cars from him at ridiculous prices. For the time being, fish for the Russian Guard will be purchased at prices one and a half times higher than in the city market. For now, officials will drive cars, which they buy for state money and pay so much that he himself will work for it for 300 years.

        You don't need to ask God for money, but your mind ...
        1. Alekseits
          Alekseits 9 January 2019 12: 10
          +7
          There is a mind, but conscience is completely absent from such comrades.
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 9 January 2019 12: 13
            +2
            Quote: Alekseits
            There is a mind, but conscience is completely absent from such comrades.

            Mind so that God would give to those who can kick these thieves on the neck so that their heads fly off.

            And most of us have enough conscience of our own.
        2. Hypersound
          Hypersound 9 January 2019 13: 00
          +3
          I agree that the director of a plant cannot earn more than 6 times than a simple hard worker. Instead of 20k a hard worker and 1 million - a director, it would be better to legally limit 150k - a robotic, 870k - a director

          + progressive tax on both individuals and businesses (small business and poor people - the minimum tax, big business and the rich - high taxes), linking the salaries of officials at all levels, including top officials to the minimum wage and average salary in the country, + sharply reduce corruption + invest half of the gold and foreign exchange reserves in national projects, especially not related to oil and gas. And then we will heal
        3. Orkraider
          Orkraider 9 January 2019 14: 25
          +2
          You don't need to ask God for money, but your mind ...


          That is why I ask to give not the mind, but the mind ... the mind can be cleverly done, it has replaced the word, but the mind ..
    3. Kurare
      Kurare 9 January 2019 11: 52
      +3
      Quote: Orkraider
      Put the right thought into your mind, and don't let Super Gorshkov obscure it.

      T.N. "Super Pots" is already a destroyer, not a frigate. In my opinion, it will turn out to be a completely new project with a backlog of 22350.
      1. Hypersound
        Hypersound 9 January 2019 13: 03
        +1
        By displacement pulls on a destroyer?
        1. Kurare
          Kurare 9 January 2019 13: 40
          +1
          Quote: Hypersound
          By displacement pulls on a destroyer?

          As they wrote, 22350M should be larger than 22350 by 1,1 thousand tons, i.e. 6,5 thousand tons in total. Another option provided for an increase as much as 8 thousand tons, i.e. this is already the "lower boundary" of the destroyers.

          Considering the admirals' appetites, the second option isn't all that fabulous. In general, it is necessary to do what is good, and not what is "better".
    4. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 9 January 2019 11: 56
      0
      Recall that in August 2018, the general director of Severnaya Verf, Igor Ponomarev, said that the enterprise is capable of building 8 ships of project 22350 at the same time.

      Quote: Orkraider
      Lord!
      Put the right thought into your mind, and don't let Super Gorshkov obscure it.
      God grant that they place an order for 4 more Admirals, even if they will not enter service soon, but sooner or later they will replenish the fleet.

      And you can:
      To the Attorney General!
      Conduct a prosecutor's investigation to clarify sabotage in naval construction. A list with the names of the officials guilty of the disruption should be submitted by ... date, along with the persons involved and things ...
      belay
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 9 January 2019 12: 55
        +5
        Quote: ROSS 42
        And you can:

        Is it possible, well, to think a little with brains instead of slogans?
        This year, the serial production of domestic gas turbine engines finally began, hence the talk about the continuation of the Gorshkov series!
        1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
          Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 9 January 2019 13: 02
          +1
          Quote: Serg65
          This year, the serial production of domestic gas turbine engines finally began, hence the talk about the continuation of the Gorshkov series!

          There are no reducers. The former owner of PJSC "Zvezda" Pavel Plavnik was unable to ensure their production. Now the owner of PJSC "Zvezda" Dmitry Pumpyansky continues his business.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 9 January 2019 14: 25
            +3
            Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
            There are no reducers.

            So there was no gas turbine engine quite recently, and even many comrades at VO predicted that they would not exist at all! And the gearboxes will be Aristarchus, but of course !!
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 9 January 2019 14: 29
            +1
            Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
            continues his work.

            judging by the faces, there will be no sense. Sweet gentlemen.
    5. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 12: 04
      0
      And what's wrong with pr. 22350M?
      1. Mechanic
        Mechanic 9 January 2019 12: 40
        +4
        it is necessary to rivet waste projects and modernize in the process. And then our Navy every year comes up with something new, so there is no serial production and shifts in terms to the left.
      2. Orkraider
        Orkraider 9 January 2019 14: 06
        +4
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        And what's wrong with pr. 22350M?

        Nothing, in the absence of the fact that there is not even a project.

        Until the project is completed, until they agree, check and introduce isms, approve and start building, it will take several years. Further head, until they clean up and "learn" the series - another 7 years. This is if errors do not surface and all the subcontractors will be ready. And then a series, which will also depend on the synchronization and regularity of deliveries of the entire production site. If you count, then at best in 10 years we will start receiving replenishment.

        The fleet does not have that much time.
      3. alexmach
        alexmach 11 January 2019 00: 40
        0
        Its absence even in the form of a draft design.
  3. ANCIENT
    ANCIENT 9 January 2019 11: 28
    +5
    This is what you can spend petrodollars on - at least 4 more such frigates can be built.
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 9 January 2019 13: 04
      0
      Yes. And build the missing factories if there is not enough capacity
  4. Sayan
    Sayan 9 January 2019 11: 34
    +3
    What to discuss? It is necessary to build.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 9 January 2019 11: 58
      0
      It is necessary to strangle the one who stole money abroad. Right on Red Square, in public. May 23rd ...
      1. Sayan
        Sayan 9 January 2019 12: 03
        +2
        Not that, but those, otherwise I agree
      2. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 12: 09
        +2
        It is necessary to strangle the one who stole money abroad. Right on Red Square, in public. May 23rd ...


        Well then, start with yourself, because ALL RUSSIAN CITIZENS are withdrawing money abroad !!! Yes, and about 300 billion dollars a year - this is how much imports into our country amount to everything from a Colgate toothbrush and a Gillette razor to imported cars, imported clothes and food.

        By buying any imported product, you are transferring money abroad, you are financing foreign companies and depriving the Russian economy of money.
        1. Hypersound
          Hypersound 9 January 2019 13: 04
          0
          Come on, the localization of imported brands in Russia has long been very significant
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 16: 00
            -1
            Come on, the localization of imported brands in Russia has long been very significant


            Look at things soberly - this is all nonsense, imported raw materials, imported units, imported machines, foreign owners, profits go abroad.

            By locating production in Russia, foreign companies simply save on customs duties and that's it.

            I have a Ford car for 11 years, they have been assembled in Russia for 18 years, I have not yet seen a single Russian unit in spare parts, even as non-original ones.
        2. Andrey Shmelev
          Andrey Shmelev 10 January 2019 10: 32
          0
          so it is so I agree plus, and who is to blame for not wanting to use Russian goods
      3. Serg65
        Serg65 9 January 2019 13: 11
        +3
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Gotta strangle

        laughing You only need to sprinkle blood on your hands, and then the grass will not grow! Wake up to your own too? They also have a stigma in the cannon!
      4. New Year day
        New Year day 9 January 2019 14: 35
        +2
        Quote: ROSS 42
        It is necessary to strangle the one who stole money abroad.

        In China, in 2014, the "Heavenly Net" campaign was launched. In just 2 years, 2566 dishonest officials from 90 countries returned to the Celestial Empire! And at the same time, Beijing returned to the country and exported capital - 8,6 billion yuan (1,29 billion dollars).
        Half of the returnees themselves wrote a confession. The Chinese leadership liked the result so much that the program continues to operate in 2017. Operation Celestial Network 2017 is designed to liquidate offshore companies and the shadow banking system, with the help of which officials close to the former General Secretary of the CPC Central Committee Jiang Zemin transferred the stolen money abroad.
        China ranked first on the planet in terms of executions in 2016
        The loudest was the execution of billionaire Liu Han in 2015. He was found guilty under 13 articles of the Criminal Code. Former head of state security of the PRC Zhou Yongkang, who allowed him to avoid responsibility for a long time, was sentenced to life imprisonment.
        Former Deputy Chairman of the Central Military Commission of the PRC, Colonel-General Guo Booxiong, was sentenced to life imprisonment for bribes in the amount of 12 million.
        Compare the penalties and the size of the bribe!
        1. Andrey Shmelev
          Andrey Shmelev 10 January 2019 10: 34
          0
          close to the former General Secretary of the CPC Central Committee Jiang Zemin, transferred the stolen money abroad.

          these grandmothers took and brought those close to the present, not? wassat
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 10 January 2019 11: 28
            +1
            Who took it and where is unknown. But China is developing
  5. Oleg1263
    Oleg1263 9 January 2019 11: 35
    -3
    Why are there so few PUs? Only 16.
    1. Kurare
      Kurare 9 January 2019 11: 50
      +8
      Quote: oleg1263
      Why are there so few PUs? Only 16.

      English sailors have a saying: if you install 8 on a ship with 10 guns, then only 6 will shoot.
      The 22350 is very well-armed and, most importantly, well-balanced.
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 16: 01
        +1
        English sailors have a saying: if you install 8 on a ship with 10 guns, then only 6 will shoot.


        But at the same time they put 26 launchers for cruise missiles on their new frigates Type 42 "Global Warship".
        1. Kurare
          Kurare 9 January 2019 17: 07
          0
          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          But at the same time they put 26 launchers for cruise missiles on their new frigates Type 42 "Global Warship".

          Displacement Type 26 (Gorshkov 22350) standard: 6900 t (4500 t), full:> 8000 t (5400 t). Those. it will be exactly that "Super Gorshkov" if it is approved in a larger version (the smaller one should have a total displacement of 6500 tons).

          In fact, the Type 26 frigate is a small destroyer and 42 launchers for its displacement is quite normal.
        2. VSrostagro
          VSrostagro 9 January 2019 19: 58
          +1
          Anti-submarine missiles and air defense missiles are also placed in these launchers.
          On Gorshkov, the air defense is separate.
      2. Oleg1263
        Oleg1263 9 January 2019 19: 37
        0
        The nomenclature of missiles for these launchers includes at least 5 different types (this is official). Go to sea with 3 on board of each species, do you think it’s not enough? Or before each exit to overload the containers depending on the purpose?
        1. Kurare
          Kurare 9 January 2019 20: 36
          0
          This is the meaning of the universal PU, depending on the tasks, different filling of the PU. If the percussion tasks are Tomahawks or Gauges, anti -arab ones - Onyxes, etc.
          1. Oleg1263
            Oleg1263 9 January 2019 20: 50
            0
            You stubbornly do not understand what I mean? Overloaded every time in a port or sea? PU, this is not a weapon, you can place 32 and have twice as much ammunition.
            1. Kurare
              Kurare 9 January 2019 21: 21
              +1
              The tasks don't change every day. Nobody is going to be overloaded. Again, there is a "balanced" load option.
              On the other hand, the concept of the 22350 with Polyment is, in my opinion, more successful than the MK41 alone.
  6. Tektor
    Tektor 9 January 2019 11: 51
    +4
    On New Year's Day, he even raised a toast for expanding the 22350 series to two divisions of 6 frigates:
  7. Angry
    Angry 9 January 2019 12: 12
    -2
    It is good to! Something THERE will not understand what needs to be done now: 1) - to finish building what was laid down (with the exception of KRV pr.20386) and 2) - to lay down only frigates !!!! Since frigates can replace corvettes, corvettes will not replace frigates. And the money .... Yes, this Vile one is like a frigate of pr. 22350 or more! Here's the money for one building. Refuse from the second six KRV pr. 22160, send the money to another building 22350. Suspend the further laying of the Karakurt, all the same there is no engine for it. So we'll probably scrape together the third building. To stop deep modernization of pr. 1155, to carry out high-temperature turbine cycle. All the same, they are being replaced by 22350. It is clear that the replacement is not equivalent, but "stretch your legs on the clothes." So it looks like you can collect money like 4 buildings. And if we abandon the stupid "bogeymen" - Petrel and Poseidons, and the like (all the same they have already been declassified and will appear at best by 2027, and by that time the partners have organized an antidote), then probably 4 more corps can be laid. Or even more.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 9 January 2019 13: 28
      +1
      Quote: Angry
      Something THERE will not understand what to do now

      Yes, stupid there! It was immediately clear ... it was necessary to give up !!!
  8. tlauicol
    tlauicol 9 January 2019 12: 19
    0
    engines ??????? is everything ready?
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 9 January 2019 13: 28
      +3
      Quote: Tlauicol
      engines ??????? is everything ready?

      hi Good morning!!!
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 9 January 2019 18: 15
        -1
        Kind ! and what, a miracle happened?
  9. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 12: 20
    +2
    As I understand it, they are discussing whether the series of pr. 22350 will be continued, or if they will immediately start laying pr. 22350M. The point is not at all the lack of money, as many here have decided.

    Russia has gold reserves of almost 450 billion dollars, for a thousand frigates pr. 22350))), but we don't need that much.

    Maybe 22350M will be better ?! Since this is a ship of a distant sea zone, then a larger displacement will add to it both seaworthiness and comfort for the crew and combat survivability and armament power, maybe there will already be a couple of helicopters instead of one, this is differently better for fighting submarines, or two Ka-52Ks place, generally get a mini-helicopter carrier.

    Russia is moving towards the creation of an ideal frigate and I think that the 22350M will still be better. This is still a ship for an attack and hopes he will only have to himself, and not like a corvette, to defend the near sea zone from submarines, which, in which case, the aviation will cover both the coastal air defense systems and DBKs and surface ships from the bases can quickly approach and help.

    I am for pr. 22350M !!!
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 9 January 2019 13: 06
      -2
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      I am for pr. 22350M !!!

      And I am for cruisers) I want 20-30 cruisers of 300 meters each
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 13: 47
        0
        And I am for cruisers) I want 20-30 cruisers of 300 meters each


        The cruiser has something to do with it, the new 22350M from 22350 will differ by only 1 thousand tons of displacement, but this will give a larger B / C and maybe space for two helicopters.

        The operation of 22350M and 22350 will not differ much in terms of costs, but the difference between a cruiser of 12-25 thousand tons of displacement and a frigate of 6,5 thousand tons of displacement is enormous.
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 9 January 2019 13: 31
      +1
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      I am for pr. 22350M !!!

      good Bravo!!!! I am also for !!! ....... what Oh, you are a yarn stump .... and who will work in the seas? "Super" is a good thing, just not for everyday life!
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 13: 53
        +1
        Bravo!!!! I am also for !!! ....... oh, you are a yogurt stump .... and who will work in the seas? "Super" is a good thing, just not for everyday life!


        The difference between 22350 and 22350M will be 1 thousand ton of displacement, I do not think that this will significantly affect the operation in terms of cost, but in terms of combat capabilities, it will be reflected for the better.

        These powerful frigates will be our economical workhorse in the far sea zone, so that they can defend themselves from submarines and from a massive air raid and cruise missiles and be able to respond.

        And so that at the same time it would be comfortable for the crew to go on long voyages on such ships, and the ship itself had a high structural survivability of the hull.

        Well, isn't it worth it to make the frigate 1 thousand ton more in displacement ?! For me, it just needs to be done.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 9 January 2019 14: 45
          +2
          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          Well isn't it worth it

          It may be worth it, but 22350 is already in the gland and "M" is only on paper, while 22350 has not yet got rid of "childhood diseases". Take the Soviet Navy, the excellent 56th project smoothly moved to the 61st, 58th, 1134th and 1164 projects. What am I doing this for? And besides, before you build "M", you need to run in the 22350th hi
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 15: 16
            0
            Yes, they've been skating for six months already. Soon the second one will be in operation, 2 are under construction, well, 2 more can be laid, otherwise 4 frigates are neither here nor there. And then Project 22350M should be pledged.
    3. Orkraider
      Orkraider 9 January 2019 14: 17
      +3
      I am for pr. 22350M !!!


      I am also for.
      I am sure it will be a great project.

      But only after at least 12 ordinary Admirals have been built.

      Too long to wait for the Supers. Until it is put into production and the construction is fine-tuned, there will be practically no ships in the far zone. So what if by 2030 there will be one or at best two Supers? They won't do anything. There will simply be too few of them. Even Napoleon said that God is on the side of large battalions)))
      For 2030, there are generally very bad statistics on pennants, see the article by Andrey from Chelyabinsk in the next section. Gorgeous analysis, and a really real view of things.
      In general, I am in favor of building another 4-8 ordinary 20350, even if because of this they postpone the Super project for 5 years.

      Better a sparrow in hand than a tit in the sky.
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 15: 23
        -1
        Until it is put into production and the construction is fine-tuned, there will be practically no ships in the far zone.


        I think everything will be fast with Project 22350M, the case on the computer will be calculated into CNC machines, the dimensions of the parts will be added, the weapon systems are the same, only with a large B / C, it will only be necessary to assemble as a designer, and then there will be 22350, which will be 22350M in time ...

        We need a powerful deep sea ship, not a half-hearted solution.

        The Germans have a Saxony-class frigate of almost 6000 tonnes of water displacement, 32 launchers for cruise missiles -



        and 2 such helicopters on board -


        So our frigate should be no worse and in terms of strike capabilities and in protection from submarines and enemy aircraft and a helicopter, 2 pieces are needed on board.
        1. Orkraider
          Orkraider 9 January 2019 18: 21
          +3
          I think everything will be fast with Project 22350M, the case on the computer will be calculated into CNC machines, the dimensions of the parts will be added, the weapon systems are the same, only with a large B / C, it will only be necessary to assemble as a designer, and then there will be 22350, which will be 22350M in time ...


          Unfortunately, you are wrong.
          It is impossible to simply enlarge the part, it must be redesigned, the strength calculations must be carried out anew, and the aggregate must be aggregated. And for production on CNC it is necessary to rewrite the program for each part, debug and reconfigure, create new those cards, register those processes... Further, more, do you know why it takes so long to build the head? Because they bring isms into the project on the basis of ongoing construction. A simple example, he supplied a system of trades for the Arctic series, and so, the stamps were designed from the Soviet times, no one canceled them, but now it is impossible to get them. In principle, it is possible to order smelting at Magnitogorsk, and then at TMK, but one smelting is at least 50 tons. Less than a ton is needed))). Total, reconciliation of steel grades at the ISU. A trifle, but lost about 3 months.
          And if you think that the institute will not repeat this brand in the next project, then you will be mistaken))) the design standards have not changed, it is necessary for the GS to lay it down, and they lay it down.
          Maritime Register request
          Further, on 22350M - and you know what the EI will be laid down, it is larger, from 22350 it will not go there. And GTZA? And when they are designed, how soon can an experimental one be made and tested?

          Why am I writing this, but to the fact that you cannot count on fast construction.
          The first one will be built for a long, long time, and only then the series will be launched. And it will take a lot of time, I lay optimistically for 10 years, Gorshkov was tortured for 14 years.
          And 22350 - with proven technical solutions, with well-established production of equipment, with workers and foremen and ready-made tech. By cards - they will allow you to release it faster and put it into operation without long tests, according to the knurled one.

          Therefore, I agree with you, we need Super-Gorshkovs, they will be more perfect, better in all respects, but we need to launch the series when their production is fine-tuned and it becomes clear what happened, in what time frame and for what money.
          In the meantime, we vitally need additional pieces of 2-4-6 Gorshkovs)))))
      2. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 15: 40
        -1
        And here is the British frigate - Type 26 "Global Warship"



        - displacement up to 8000 tons;
        - 42 launchers for cruise missiles and a bunch of other weapons;
        - 2 helicopter.

  10. Hypersound
    Hypersound 9 January 2019 12: 54
    0
    And 6 is not enough. Need more
    According to the interlocutor, we are talking about opening a credit line.


    What is the line of credit? The budget is a surplus of 2.5 trillion rubles, so let a drop of this money go for extra. frigates
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 January 2019 13: 26
      0
      This surplus will not go to the defense industry - the May decrees must be implemented.
    2. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 13: 55
      +1
      What is the line of credit? The budget is a surplus of 2.5 trillion rubles, so let a drop of this money go for extra. frigates


      The budget is state money, and the enterprise has its own budget, in order to get money for the ship, they must first build and hand it over.

      Now they don’t just pour money out of the bag.
  11. Hypersound
    Hypersound 9 January 2019 12: 57
    0
    By the way, as far as I understand, the Russian Federation refused the new cruisers? Just upgrade 1144 projects? Is it possible that cruisers as a type of ship are becoming a thing of the past and they can be replaced by destroyers (the same "Leaders")?
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 13: 43
      0
      No one refused, they have not yet decided on the final image of the corvettes and frigates. We must first bring them to mind, and then take up the cruiser.
  12. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 9 January 2019 13: 10
    0
    That's when they build and hand over to the Navy, then we'll rejoice, but for now, only Wishlist ...
  13. Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 9 January 2019 14: 26
    -2
    Project 22350 should be replaced by project 22350M, project 22350M is not known for its displacement, what engines will be?
  14. Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 9 January 2019 14: 37
    -1
    The Ministry of Defense should already lay down Project 21956 destroyers with a little more armament, and they are all thinking about frigates. sad And so the rearmament program from 2011 to 2020 lags behind the ships
  15. Andrey Shabashov
    Andrey Shabashov 9 January 2019 14: 40
    0
    It is better to wait not for a super pot, but for a super-duper pot, than to build normal ships now!
  16. Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 9 January 2019 14: 47
    +1
    22350 is a good frigate, mini Burke.
    But for good reason, we only need for one Pacific Fleet at least 10 Berks analogs, full-fledged destroyers! And here with frigates not ale, with frigates, Karl! For the whole fleet!
    If we continue to "give birth" in this way, then our fleet will have very big problems.
    I hope that in 10 years from now we will start to take up their minds and start laying down destroyers.
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 9 January 2019 15: 31
      0
      If we continue to "give birth" in this way, then our fleet will have very big problems.
      I hope that in 10 years from now we will start to take up their minds and start laying down destroyers.


      Set aside panic))). We need frigates not to let 86 Arlie Berkov sink to the bottom, but for operations in the far sea zone. Russia has not built ships for a long time, and now the concept of a new Russian corvette is being developed to protect our near sea zone and a frigate for operations in the far sea zone.

      And you need to make an optimal and efficient corvette and a frigate. And after that they will be taken to the destroyer, UDC and aircraft carriers.

      It is not necessary to rivet a lot of ships of the mind, the question is to make them not just a lot, but also effective, otherwise they did a lot like with BT tanks before the Second World War, they did a lot, only there was little sense from them.
  17. nnz226
    nnz226 9 January 2019 15: 05
    +1
    Against the background of several dozen US destroyers of the "Arleigh Burke" class - a fucking "increase" in the power of the Russian Navy ...
  18. Clone
    Clone 9 January 2019 15: 23
    +2
    Pure into space ...
    Yesterday on the channel "Arms" I saw a program on the topic "Striking force. Shield of an aircraft carrier" ... 2005. Confident reasoning that an aircraft carrier worthy of Russia will be laid down in 2013. Awww !!! 2019 outside the window.
    Somehow even the fascinating stories about the repair of nuclear cruisers and the "Admiral Kuznetsov" "quieted down" ... Are entertaining STORIES about frigates with corvettes in trend?
    Just don't talk about a non-rubber budget! For some reason, there are pennies for ostentatious fintiflyushki, fanfare, fireworks and other temples. Oh, is this all to increase the level of patriotism of the young growth? With the major "elite", strenuously hilling foreign values, we, of course, will reach unprecedented heights in this matter. sad
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. NordUral
    NordUral 9 January 2019 17: 35
    0
    The whole process of building up fleets is an ongoing discussion of stuffing. Even under Brezhnev, these would have been replaced long ago.
  21. Adimius38
    Adimius38 9 January 2019 19: 30
    0
    it is necessary not to discuss but to lay new frigates 22350, since the state of the surface fleet, their numerical strength is catastrophic.
  22. VSrostagro
    VSrostagro 9 January 2019 20: 24
    0
    Hopefully 2 will be laid + 2 will be planned, and with the project 22350M they will not tighten (and will not be too smart) ... soldier