Military Review

Israeli machines go to Paris

161
At the arms exhibition in Paris, the Israeli firm IWI will present several new modifications of their Tavor, X95 and Galil assault rifles. Among other things, the company will present a new 40 mm grenade launcher.



New configurations "Tavor" allow you to mount on this assault rifle most types of day and night sights, as well as additional accessories. Initially, an American M-203 grenade launcher was attached to this machine, but it was somewhat inconvenient. Therefore, IWI decided to develop its own version.

Israeli machines go to Paris


The new 40mm “grenade launcher” weighs within 1.4 kg. Two versions with a barrel of different lengths have been launched into production: the first one has an effective firing range - 300 meters, and the second - 400. For comparison, the GP-25 and GP-30, which are in service with the Russian army, have a weight of 1.5 and 1.3 kg, respectively, and the firing range is 150 meters. In a press release, the manufacturer notes that this grenade launcher is suitable for installation on all types of modern rifle weapons.



Tavor - initially initiative development of Israel Weapon Indasrties. The first samples of the machine arrived at the test at the beginning of the 90-x. He then had a somewhat futuristic look - the designers began to develop from the appearance of the weapon, and assigned the designers to this business. The emphasis was on ergonomics, and the Tavor itself was like lasers from science fiction films. The army, although it did not make the order, nevertheless, closely followed the potentially interesting sample and provided all possible assistance to the developers.


The first version of "Tavor"



Further development

However, already in 2000-m, he became like a real military weapon. When the author of the article first managed to see him, the machine gun was green and did not have any picatinny slats. Later, during the operation “Protective Wall”, the machine gun went over to tests at special forces. Then the Mars collimator sight with the integrated laser target designator appeared on it. Subjectively, at that time it was not possible to shoot an assault rifle - Tavor was comfortable, applied, had excellent ergonomics, had a slightly unusual, but very well located center of gravity, and literally “stuck” in the shoulder.



To date, TAR-21 (this is the official name of the first version of the rifle) is in service with 15 countries (excluding Israel). Mostly, these weapons are being bought by special forces, but lately, regular armies have also been arming them. So, they are re-equipping their army with the kingdom of Thailand (more than 60000), the machine gun was purchased by the armed forces of Vietnam (they are armed with marines). In India, various special forces units purchased more than 15000 barrels, and Tavor is one of the main favorites of the current competition for a new assault rifle for regular units.


Tavor in India at a special forces soldier


Tavor in Vietnam

In the countries of the former USSR, the machine gun is in service with the special forces of Azerbaijan and Georgia. And if in Georgia, which received around 3000 rifles, the supplies of the “three eights” after the war were completely stopped, Azerbaijan plans to replace the AK with Tavor, having built a plant for the production of this assault rifle on its territory.


Tavor in Azerbaijan

In addition, after a series of delays, Tavor enters the US civilian arms market - a plant was recently commissioned to circumvent a number of restrictions for exporters of weapons. For private users the rifle will cost $ 1,999.95. With a "native" sight - 2600.


Civil version

The bed and body of the Tavor assault rifle are made of composite materials with metal inserts. Plastic - black. Shops - regular for rifles М16 and М4, standard NATO. The IDF routinely comes with Mars collimator sights with integrated laser target designator.


Mars collimator sight with integrated laser pointer

Users note that the rifle is unpretentious, comfortable, accurate, has a little tight descent. Changing the store doesn’t cause any difficulties for the user who originally trained on this machine, or who has passed the corresponding course. The basis of automatics is the removal of powder gases from the barrel bore through the vapor assembly located above the barrel and hidden by the weapon body. The gas piston rigidly fixed on the slide frame has a long working stroke. The barrel is locked by turning the bolt on the 7 lugs.


Disassembly

Incomplete disassembly can be done in the field without using any tools, for which it is sufficient to push out the connecting rod located in the upper rear part of the butt. Then the butt plate on the hinge leans back and down, and the slide frame assembly is removed to the outside.

X95



X95 is the development of Tavor. The machine gun was developed in close cooperation with the fighters of elite units and taking into account their specific requirements. The designers managed to reduce the weapon, while maintaining the length of the barrel.



In addition, the store shift button is moved forward, under the index finger. In addition, thanks to a special converter consisting of a barrel, bolt group and a magazine receiver, the X95 caliber can be quickly changed from 5.56 to 9mm.



It is this version of TAVOR that should enter into service with the IDF and change the first model. It was also her in the number of 12000 units that Indians ordered, and, apparently, in the near future, it will completely replace the first version of Tavor.




The illustrations clearly show what are the main differences between different generations of "Tavor"

It is often mentioned that Israeli weapons are developed ONLY for a specific Middle Eastern theater. This is not true.



The Israeli military industry is export-oriented, so it cannot afford the luxury of taking into account only local realities. Therefore, the machine was tested in very exotic conditions, and has a high level of reliability. It is worth noting that the first version of "Tavor", during the transition to mass production, there were certain complaints, however, the manufacturer made the appropriate adjustments, and at the moment there are no more reports.


X95 under the pistol cartridge

Galil ACE (ACE N)
Not only Tavor is transported to Eurosatory 2012. Despite the fact that the Galil machine gun (the Israeli license of the Finnish Velmet, which, in turn, was an AK clone under 5.56), was removed from the IDF, it is actively used by the armies of many countries (more than two dozen). Initially, a number of improvements were made to the “Galil” compared to the original design (for example, a more convenient valve and a two-way fuse). Due to the high quality of the rifle itself, and the reliable operation of the mechanism, mostly borrowed from AK, Galil gained deserved popularity among users. It is thanks to them that a number of improvements have been made to the IWI.


Colombian with new Galil ACE


Colombian soldiers with old galil

The main role in the project was played by Colombia. "Galil" there is a standard army weapon. However, the army wanted something more modern, corresponding to the realities of today. Basically, the changes focused on ergonomics - integral guides, a shutter transferred to the other side, a more comfortable grip, and a telescopic butt. The Galil ACE weapon line includes the three most common types of ammunition in the world (NATO 5.56x45, 7.62x39 M43 and 7.62x51 NATO). The machine conforms to modern NATO standards (including environmental ones).


Galil ACE in Colombia. The yellow object in the barrel is a special Israeli fuse that allows you to carry a machine gun with an inserted magazine without the danger of a spontaneous shot. The fuse has the form of a cartridge. In case of danger, the shutter cocked - and the fuse flies to the side, freeing up space for the combat charge

The Galil ACE assault rifle / assault rifle uses automatic vapor control with a long stroke located above the gas piston barrel. Locking the barrel is done by turning the bolt on two massive combat lugs.


The receiver box is milled from steel, so it has high strength and resource. The cover of the receiver is stamped from steel, the neck of the magazine receiver, trigger guard and pistol grip are made of high-strength plastic. The fuse-translator of fire regimes is duplicated on both sides of the weapon and provides firing with single shots and bursts.


Galil ACE under 7.62


Cocking handle can be located both on the left and on the right side of the weapon and is rigidly connected to the slide frame.



The slot for the handle is covered with a spring-loaded dust-proof shutter that automatically opens when the bolt carrier rolls back and also automatically closes when it comes to the front position, reliably protecting the weapon’s mechanisms from dust, dirt and other foreign objects regardless of the position of the fuse. In Colombia, the machine is manufactured under license.



The article used materials from the sites:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com
http://world.guns.ru
http://www.israeldefense.com
http://www.militaryphotos.net
http://www.israel-weapon.com
http://www.isayeret.com
X95 - Water test


X95 - Test in the snow


X95 - Test in the mud
Author:
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  1. Pimply
    11 June 2012 09: 12
    +58
    Dear friends. Since kind people pointed out the minuses to my comments, if this article was useful and interesting for you, and you would like to receive answers to your questions - plus this kament, because the current shard on my shoulder straps does not allow giving more than a certain number of answers per day.
    1. ward
      ward 11 June 2012 10: 43
      +2
      Yes, please .... by the way, a cool gadget ... especially pinned ... gloves ... I weld metal in such ... after a shot from a grenade launcher with my bare hand, it’s cherished ...
      1. Pimply
        11 June 2012 11: 05
        +15
        Well, you can and without gloves. If you pay attention - there is a plastic lining along the entire length of the barrel. Gloves are so - picture. Just in the armies of different countries they are increasingly used - conveniently.
        1. schonia06rus
          schonia06rus 11 June 2012 12: 04
          -1
          Can you explain one thing to me why the shutter frame was moved to the left side in Galil?
          1. Pimply
            12 June 2012 16: 03
            0
            And for what he was originally on the right, do not tell? For the right-handed, it is more convenient to cocking the bolt with the left hand, as for the left-handed - with the right. And on the AK and the shutter was on the right, and the extractor sleeves - the same. Like on Galil. On the old Galilee, to correct this inconvenience, a characteristic protrusion was installed, and a new one was finally fixed.
            1. schonia06rus
              schonia06rus 13 June 2012 00: 33
              0
              when you cock AK - the right hand actually cockes, and the left holds the forend i.e. the likelihood that some kind of young degenerate will shoot their own is minimized. plus holding on to the forearm is easier to hold the machine, no need to waste time trying to aim again. in the end, the machine gun is worn on the right shoulder.
              1. Pimply
                13 June 2012 01: 56
                +1
                Dear, when the disadvantages are given for dignity - it is ridiculous. He can shoot and when the shutter distorts, do not find. And that would not not shoot, an idiot is taught a simple rule - finger along.
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 13 June 2012 20: 10
                  0
                  Quote: Pimply
                  when flaws are presented as virtues - this is ridiculous.

                  Similarly, the shutter handle on the left side has the same disadvantages: an additional slot through which dirt will enter the machine.
                  And the shutter handle on the right side of the machine is easily cocked with the left hand: for this, the machine, along the longitudinal axis, is tilted to the left.
                  By the way, the AK-12, if my memory serves me right, the cocking handle of the shutter is rearranged on either side.
                  1. Pimply
                    19 June 2012 12: 53
                    0
                    So what is it about - many years have passed. As for the additional gap - well, on the Gilili issue was resolved very quickly.
        2. ward
          ward 11 June 2012 12: 21
          0
          Pounding from the belt yes ... and aiming ... no ... from experience it’s still hot ... plus ...
          1. Kibb
            Kibb 12 June 2012 02: 06
            -1
            for pounding from the belt there is PP, what do you consider aiming? 200 m 400 m 800
    2. Odessa
      Odessa 11 June 2012 12: 18
      +4
      Pimply (1), the skull disappeared from the shoulder strap, everything is ok yes
      1. Pimply
        19 June 2012 12: 53
        0
        As it disappeared, so 8 will appear)
    3. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 11 June 2012 14: 41
      +1
      Internet, thanks for the article. It’s a pity there are no descriptions of the new modification of the brand with an extended barrel, I would like to hear how the characteristics have changed.
      1. Pimply
        11 June 2012 16: 43
        +10
        It is not completely elongated. They just managed about the same length of the barrel as in the first version, while reducing the size of the weapon. At the same time, as far as I understood from the materials that I managed to dig up, one of the main advantages of x95 is that despite the fact that the trunk is still smaller than the main one from the first versions, they managed to maintain accuracy,

        In most cases, those who shot from the 4 and Tavor, note the advantages of the latter. Accuracy and other characteristics are comparable, and in some cases there is an advantage x95
        1. Alexey Prikazchikov
          Alexey Prikazchikov 11 June 2012 22: 08
          +2
          And in terms of reliability and even interst, how did the Israelis solve the traditional bulpap problem with shifting the center of gravity?
          1. Pimply
            11 June 2012 23: 29
            +5
            The fact that the center of gravity is shifted back a bit even gives a definite advantage - Tavor literally sticks to the shoulder. In principle, there are schemes. You can try to figure out how, but the balance he had on the first versions was just amazing.
            1. 755962
              755962 12 June 2012 21: 23
              +1
              Well done, Pimpled. And can he do that?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c&feature=player_embedded
              1. Pimply
                13 June 2012 01: 58
                +2
                Maybe it can, but such a perversion can be reached — why the hell is it?
                1. 755962
                  755962 13 June 2012 09: 52
                  +1
                  Quote: Pimply
                  to reach such a perversion - why the hell?

                  Hello, namesake! Well, at least as an advertisement. From all angles, so to speak wink
                  1. Sehiru san
                    Sehiru san 13 June 2012 10: 03
                    +1
                    It runs like snot from a nose. And Kalash will also shoot.
  2. dred
    dred 11 June 2012 09: 20
    +3
    Quote: Pimply
    Dear friends. Since kind people pointed out the minuses to my comments, if this article was useful and interesting for you, and you would like to receive answers to your questions - plus this kament, because the current shard on my shoulder straps does not allow giving more than a certain number of answers per day.

    I wanted to ask besides the x95 brand in India what other machines are in favorites.
    1. Pimply
      11 June 2012 09: 36
      +19
      On April 9 (the final deadline for the terms of the tender), Israel Webon Industries (IWI) with Tavor, the Italian Beretta, the American Colt and Zig Sauer, and the Czech company CZ submitted their proposals. Tavor has better chances for the following reasons

      a) M4 from Colt, although it meets the requirements of today, has a number of complaints and a limited resource for modernization for tomorrow.
      b) "Beretta ARX-160" and "CZ" are still quite raw, have good performance, but in fact they are not used in real combat conditions (unlike the same "Tavor" or "Colt"
      c) SIG 516 / 716 - an attempt to correct the shortcomings of the M-16. Also a new weapon, no army has ever seriously considered it as a potential primary weapon. M4 is trying to replace them, but the Americans want to achieve a serious improvement in the characteristics of the M-ki, and so far no one has succeeded in doing this.
      d) "Tavor" has been successfully used by Indians for almost 10 years. During this time, they purchased new lots several times, that is, an infrastructure was created for weapons, and there is experience in using it in the troops.

      In short, these are the reasons Tavor is the favorite. Well, and also such a trifle that Israel has become India's main arms supplier and a partner in a number of serious military programs.
    2. Korvin
      Korvin 11 June 2012 23: 03
      +2
      They have there specialists and parts of different states the hodgepodge is found and FN F2000 and INSAS SS2 and Kalashi
      1. Pimply
        11 June 2012 23: 36
        +3
        Right. But the Belgians did not apply for the competition, but Insas and AK just refuse
  3. Professor
    Professor 11 June 2012 09: 29
    +4
    Thank you for the article.
    I would add that, unlike other bullpup on Tavor, the "ejection of shells" can be carried out both from the right and from the left, which makes its use convenient for left-handers.
    1. Pimply
      11 June 2012 09: 45
      +19
      Well, it was noted in previous articles. There was a lot that could be added, in principle. There is not only an ejection - there, in a couple of minutes, the machine gun can be converted into a left-handed or right-handed person, which is now being developed a special complex under the "Soldier of the Future" program



      It could be added that wonderful concepts are being made for "Tavor"



      Or, for example, that it is in service with the Turks, although this is not officially indicated anywhere, and Israel has a difficult relationship with Turkey.


      But that would stretch the article to kilometers wink On good, there could still be written about Galil, but in the end - we are the Internet! 8)
      1. Professor
        Professor 11 June 2012 09: 49
        +3
        Galil should be singled out in a separate article. Is there a photo of a complete disassembly of Tavor? Close-ups?
        1. Pimply
          11 June 2012 09: 54
          +13
          Yes, a few. And there is a video. What is meant by complete disassembly? To the cogs? Or for cleaning?

          For cleaning, the back cover just flips open, and the part is one.

          About "Galil" it will be possible to scribble something separately later, I thought there was an article about him - but no
          1. Town Guard
            Town Guard 12 June 2012 22: 37
            +2
            Yes, I should. Moreover, you have mentioned Galil Ace N:Galil ACE (ACE N), but the topic is not disclosed smile
            As I understand it, it was presented at Eurosatory, however, there is 1 point about the grenade launcher - it is strange that for the GP-25 and GP-30, the range is only 150m.
            http://www.ak-info.ru/joomla/index.php/devices/18-akgrenade/57-gp25about
            Here, and in other sources, 400m appears. Whether it’s a mistake, or misleading and unfair advertising (that the new IWI grenade launcher shoots at 400 m, and the GP-25/30 only 150).
            I also saw a variant of a rare bed for a brand:
            1. Town Guard
              Town Guard 12 June 2012 23: 02
              +2
              Sorry, it wasn’t on purpose. I haven’t read about grenade launcher indicators to the end. It’s just hard to trust articles - there are unscrupulous people who underestimate the characteristics of other weapons to call their breakthrough ...

              Here is another image of the concept.
              1. Black Colonel
                Black Colonel 13 June 2012 09: 42
                +1
                Not always a large range of shot grenade launcher is a plus. Often you have to work on closed goals.
            2. Pimply
              13 June 2012 01: 59
              +2
              150 at Popenker. I confused the effective range with the maximum. The fact that in the photo - kocept. In reality, it does not exist.
        2. Pimply
          11 June 2012 23: 25
          +4
          Oh, and one more wonderful topic for an article has matured today: Myths and tales about М16 wink
          1. Eugene
            Eugene 11 June 2012 23: 47
            +1
            It would be interesting to read. I always said. that most of the myths about it are associated with the first rifles of the M16 and M16A1 series and people are projecting their flaws on newer modifications.
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 11 June 2012 15: 04
        +6
        respected!
        In the picture with Tavor, Azerbaijani special forces!
        This is a photo from joint exercises!
        on many military forums of Azerbaijan this photo is displayed !!
        1. Pimply
          11 June 2012 16: 43
          +7
          Ok thank you. So, where they took - they were mistaken
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 11 June 2012 17: 41
            +4
            this is not quite a mistake!
            In the photo, both Turkish special forces and Azerbaijan had joint exercises!
            if I’m not mistaken, the end of spring or last year or the last year before, I don’t remember exactly!
            And with Tavor assault rifles, these are our guys, for sure!
            1. Hairy Siberian
              Hairy Siberian 11 June 2012 21: 20
              0
              Yarbau, why are the faces and uniforms (camouflage) blue? What natural phenomenon? Sky?
      3. Kashaverskiy
        Kashaverskiy 12 June 2012 23: 19
        +1
        Quote: Pimply
        But this would stretch the article to kilometers. For good, there could still be written about Galil, but in the end - we are the Internet! 8)

        I think your article is very informative, and it would be nice if you wrote as much as possible, and not in a truncated form from the original. smile
        In the end, if people like and ask - why not write? It would be interesting to read the sequel - 1) what was not said about the brand, 2) and about galil. By the way, if you have so much information, you can do it right away several parts - and each part about weapons is a separate article.
        By the way, if there are still experienced photos of tavors and galilees - it will be very interesting - because they are few on the net, and the information is very interesting. For the seed - photos of prototypes of the brand.
        1. Pimply
          13 June 2012 02: 21
          +2
          These galiles were in a small series, called "Magal", were under 9 mm, and under 5.56. I saw them in real life once, at the police special forces in 2001 or 2002.

          Tavor: the two upper prototypes of the middle 90-x, somewhere 2003-th, I think, the lower one is already serial, those that the pieces were in 2000-m were green, and the opening was slightly different.

          Vintovochka over Galili, in fact - also Galil, but under .308. Great, huh? 8) Sniper, 1989 year, in the states it sells for 1300 bucks on average.



          Upstairs, if I didn’t mess up anything, the Johnson rifle was a machine gun version of it, called Dror. But the picture in the amount of more need to look.
          1. Town Guard
            Town Guard 14 June 2012 12: 42
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            The rifle over Galilia, in fact - also Galil, but under .308. Cool, huh?

            Here's another photo - an updated version of Galil ACE N with Eurosatory
            1. Pimply
              19 June 2012 12: 57
              +1
              It looks very unusual. And a clearly updated design
          2. Witold
            Witold 14 September 2013 11: 50
            +1
            Quote: Pimply
            Vintovochka over Galili, in fact - also Galil, but under .308. Great, huh? 8) Sniper, 1989 year, in the states it sells for 1300 bucks on average.

            You kind of got it all mixed up. Sniper "Galil" is produced with cal. 7.62. .380 bolt action completed development just this year.
            This is a Galil sniper.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 11 June 2012 22: 34
      +2
      Quote: Professor
      I would add that, unlike other bullpup on Tavor, the "ejection of shells" can be carried out both from the right and from the left, which makes its use convenient for left-handers.

      Some bullpups (for example, our A-91 and ADF) emit cartridges forward (at the sight of the front sight), and powder gases from the automatic mechanism go there too, which is not unimportant (the shooter does not breathe them).
      1. Pimply
        11 June 2012 23: 00
        +6
        Here another minus appears - a slight haze and smoke in front of the sighting devices, although, without a doubt, the scheme deserves attention. If you pay attention, when firing from the same "Tavor" gases are discharged in the direction opposite to the shooter, and, checking the information on the issue, users did not have this problem. They talked about the greater effort on the trigger, especially when compared with the M4 and M16, and about some initial inconvenience of those who were trained on the machines of the classic line-up. This is the main
      2. Korvin
        Korvin 11 June 2012 23: 06
        +1
        It is a pity that the 91st hung on the wall in one instance and hangs. And such a system was. Could it be based on it, your F2000 can only get smaller and smaller in size.
        1. Alexey Prikazchikov
          Alexey Prikazchikov 12 June 2012 00: 37
          +1
          By the way, he seems to be two-medium.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 12 June 2012 11: 08
            +1
            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            By the way, he seems to be two-medium.

            Two-medium (ADS) was created on the basis of the A-91.
            The native caliber A-91 was 7,62. A variant with other calibers is most likely a search for a niche (client). At the stand he is under the NATO patron.
            In the ADS caliber 5,45,
    3. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 13 June 2012 09: 37
      0
      I read about some domestic pilot development of a bull-pop circuit machine, where the sleeve is thrown forward. And this is a plus - it is a lot worse to smell powder gases. And what kind of machine - I do not remember, but the fact that this is not a machine gun - for sure.
      1. Sehiru san
        Sehiru san 13 June 2012 09: 55
        0
        This is about Korobov assault rifles. There were several models.

        http://soft-and-games.ucoz.ru/publ/stati_dopolnenija_muzyka/tekhnologii/skhema_b
        ulpap / 15-1-0-82
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 13 June 2012 20: 21
        0
        Quote: Black Colonel
        I read about some domestic pilot development of a bull-pop circuit machine, where the sleeve is thrown forward. And this is a plus - it is a lot worse to smell powder gases. And what kind of machine - I do not remember, but the fact that this is not a machine gun - for sure.

        A-91, ADF (they were already mentioned here), and Stechkin has the same thing.
    4. Petrovich72
      Petrovich72 13 June 2012 12: 01
      0
      from which? AUG? Cleron? - freely rearranged for firing from any shoulder.
  4. Kibb
    Kibb 11 June 2012 09: 48
    +6
    Quote: Professor
    unlike other bullpup on Tavora, "cartridge case ejection" can be carried out both on the right and left sides

    This is not new, my service at the IDF ended in the 98th, so I did not hold Tavor in my hands, can I have more information if I had experience? Are you interested in just subjective feelings?
    1. Professor
      Professor 11 June 2012 10: 29
      +1
      He held in his hands, but no more. feel The layout is comfortable, sits rooted to the spot, there is nothing new in the sight - Elbit set these on the M-16 many years ago.
      The fighters are pleased with the machine, they say that the reliable and gas contamination is no more than in the M-16.
      1. Kibb
        Kibb 11 June 2012 10: 40
        +5
        Well, I served in the Mohava in the north, there was the main galil, well, also M4, I would very much like to hold Tavor
        1. Professor
          Professor 11 June 2012 10: 50
          0
          In Kherson Magaw? laughing
          But ... belay
          1. Odessa
            Odessa 11 June 2012 11: 10
            +2
            Fi, professor, you disappointed me, I'm sorry, but you behave like a pea jester yes
            Pimpled (1), thanks I liked it, only Galil was out of date anyway, and what don’t do, he won’t return to his former location.
            1. ward
              ward 11 June 2012 11: 15
              +3
              Judging by IP, you’re somewhere on the next street ... so if you see a little fat boy of 15 years ... with glasses and acne ... this is it ... plus ...
              1. Odessa
                Odessa 11 June 2012 11: 39
                +3
                ward, on the neighboring vryatli, but 100%, which is somewhere within reach bully
                1. ward
                  ward 11 June 2012 12: 34
                  +6
                  It’s always a dream to visit Jerusalem ... and recently a dream came true ... I’m going to Our Hvorostyanka in Our Samara Region ... I look at the Jerusalem signpost ... 5 km ... well ... drove in ... looked ... plus ...
                  1. Kibb
                    Kibb 11 June 2012 13: 15
                    +2
                    There the gorge along the highway is very interesting; look carefully
          2. Kibb
            Kibb 11 June 2012 11: 37
            +5
            Well, two daughters at the muen in Kherson, and they are dearer to me than the whole of Israel taken together
            1. Kibb
              Kibb 11 June 2012 12: 06
              +10
              Professor- really disappointed- I A JEWISH by mom and dad with the Wolf family is very familiar, what does all this have to do with Tavor?
              1. Professor
                Professor 11 June 2012 12: 55
                +5
                I apologize if I offended. It was not even in my thoughts. You just wrote that you served in the MAGAV, and the profile says that you live in Kherson. This is not every day you meet.
                Once again, I apologize wildly. feel
                1. Kibb
                  Kibb 11 June 2012 13: 19
                  +3
                  Okay, we’ve passed = nevertheless, it’s okay, my assassin didn’t know that Galil is AK
                  1. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm 11 June 2012 22: 44
                    +2
                    Quote: Kibb
                    Galil is AK

                    Tavor reminded me of the OTs-14 "Groza" remotely
                    How have peaches and grapes in your region not frozen out this winter?
                    1. Kibb
                      Kibb 11 June 2012 23: 25
                      +1
                      Thunderstorm, I’ve never seen, subjectively, I don’t like subjectively alterations to Dad’s bul, I’m far from a pro
                      1. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 11 June 2012 23: 52
                        +4
                        Quote: Kibb
                        I do not like subjectively alterations in the bul dad

                        The body kit of a full-fledged AK (and not an alteration with AKSU, as in the "Groza")
                      2. Hairy Siberian
                        Hairy Siberian 11 June 2012 23: 58
                        +2
                        So everything seems to be normal! But the store painted with school floor paint was left, so that it could be seen that "Kalashnikov"?
                      3. Alexey Prikazchikov
                        Alexey Prikazchikov 12 June 2012 00: 38
                        0
                        To be honest, it feels like they did it in a darling, compare with that same galil. Moreover, the Kalimator is worth the point, ours will not do such a hundred years, a tactical flashlight too, and the kit is Israeli by the way.
      2. Witold
        Witold 14 September 2013 11: 53
        +1
        The sight is not Elbit, but a subsidiary from Caesarea IWI.
  5. dred
    dred 11 June 2012 10: 00
    +1
    I heard that the brand has a high price. How are the Indians going to open production on a large scale. And another question is why our AK-103 did not take part.
    1. Pimply
      11 June 2012 10: 20
      +20
      Thais bought 13,868 Tavor kits for 27.77 million dollars. That is, apparently, they went with spare parts, sights and other things. About 2000 dollars kit. Judging by the fact that they bought a few more lots, they were all arranged.

      AK-103 did not participate for several reasons. It is an automatic machine of the 20 century. That is - the past. Great machine. But the 103 modification is low-tech, the plant has a lot of problems, old equipment. The order implied the modularity of the machine (and there is none), new technologies (there are none, either), the construction of the 5.56 ammunition plant (how bad in this industry, I think, is not worth it), etc. Kalashnikov differs unimportant ergonomics, and a number of other shortcomings - this is even spelled out in his patent. Below, I cite a reference to the patent, and highlight what the patent holders indicated in the application, namely:
      Kalashnikov Mikhail Timofeevich, Aleksandrov Yury Konstantinovich,
      Bezborodov Nikolai Aleksandrovich, Kalashnikov Viktor Mikhailovich.
      Nesterov Azariy Ivanovich, Paranin Valery Nikolayevich (RU)

      The disadvantage of this model is low reliability, failures of the weapon when used in extreme climatic and extreme conditions, low accuracy of fire, and insufficiently high performance.
      http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/patent.html

      About the quality of modern "Kalash" - about the old, Soviet, I will keep silent, they passed a tough acceptance - and so, about the quality of modern AK, I think, they themselves have heard a lot. That's the reason for you.

      The Hindus, on the other hand, are going to build a multi-profile HIGH-TECHNOLOGY production, in addition, their labor force is much cheaper than in Israel - which will also allow to bring down the price. And Izhmash now does not smell of high technology. What can we say about the competition, if the new machines stood idle for two years - and they were able to raise the level of production by an order of magnitude. Modern samples are quite similar to AK in terms of reliability - you see for yourself, in the video. And in terms of accuracy, convenience, manufacturability, and resource "Kalash" do. The only thing that remains is the low price. But it is not always so low, and the low price does not always determine everything, agree?
      1. schonia06rus
        schonia06rus 11 June 2012 12: 15
        +7
        Quote: Pimply
        The disadvantage of this model is low reliability, failures of the weapon when used in extreme climatic and extreme conditions, low accuracy of fire, and insufficiently high performance.

        Yes, it’s not for nothing that you have cons! am
        these are AKM flaws, and AK-103, if you believe the patent, it (the 103rd) is called to get rid of these flaws!
        1. Town Guard
          Town Guard 12 June 2012 22: 46
          +1
          Quote: schonia06rus
          these are the shortcomings of AKM,

          I can’t agree to the end. From the very beginning (well, except perhaps for some experimental, first samples) it was distinguished by outstanding reliability and just withstood extreme conditions - it is not clear how such a thing was written in the patent. And AKM is quite reliable. And about accuracy - yes I agree. 103rd with the AK-74 type DTK should improve the accuracy indicators.
          1. schonia06rus
            schonia06rus 13 June 2012 00: 05
            +1
            it’s written in the patent. I'm talking about the fact that he (Pimpled) distorts! pulled words out of context!
  6. Dust
    Dust 11 June 2012 10: 50
    0
    And I absolutely do not like it - I am convinced that this is just a passion for bad fashion and not to take away financial interest in kickbacks from customers ...
    1. Professor
      Professor 11 June 2012 10: 55
      +5
      You see, in order to take Tavor into service in the IDF, it should have been an order of magnitude better than other models, since Free M-16 has been used there for decades, and the local AK too. Try to convince the Ministry of Finance to allocate money for the machine when the warehouses are littered with other machines.
      1. Dust
        Dust 11 June 2012 11: 15
        -1
        I'm not talking about Israel, although there it’s quite possible that it’s not quite clean ...
    2. scorpion74
      scorpion74 11 June 2012 15: 51
      +4
      totally agree
  7. tarnishes
    tarnishes 11 June 2012 10: 52
    +2
    Vserovno Russian gunsmiths are making better weapons! bully
  8. ward
    ward 11 June 2012 10: 59
    +6
    For a complete disassembly assembly, you need a screwdriver and a special key ... yes, I always loved Kalash ...
    1. igor67
      igor67 11 June 2012 11: 18
      +7
      ward,
      and this is the whole problem. I remember disassembling and assembling Kalash for a while. and that my daughter was only last day tomorrow in the army. dismantled and collected m16 with a manicure. for 2 years she managed to serve with a manicure. I was indignant about it and she said just cock the shutter and shoot, I’ll tell you perfectly.
      1. ward
        ward 11 June 2012 11: 31
        +5
        Igor, the problem is to shoot ... you need to crawl ... to run ... to climb ... etc. and unfortunately it’s unlikely that your daughter will plop down into a canal with sewage ... and after that she will come out of it alive ... she will understand the difference between Kalash and M-16 and why manicure in the army is bad for health .. ... in general, I am delighted with the youth training system in the Israeli army ... plus for you and your daughter ... and a separate respect for the fact that you don’t shout at the meeting is always a plus ... or you’ve sat in summers ..
        1. igor67
          igor67 11 June 2012 11: 50
          +17
          thank you .. believe me, I wasn’t happy at the service of my daughter in the army. I’ll look like a soldier I’ll talk as a child to a child.
          1. ward
            ward 11 June 2012 12: 39
            +7
            And really a manicure ... well done girl .... plus ...
          2. Professor
            Professor 11 June 2012 12: 58
            +11
            "Plus" for the inscription in Russian on the background. good
            1. igor67
              igor67 11 June 2012 13: 07
              +7
              she passed the terranut. on tsete sheva
            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay 11 June 2012 15: 10
              +4
              Professor, who is so clamoring for you ??
              Though you are stubborn, but I will try to correct you!))
              1. Professor
                Professor 11 June 2012 15: 59
                +5
                To my minuses ... from the Leaning Tower of Pisa. laughing
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 11 June 2012 17: 58
                  +2
                  of this I have no doubt the professor)))))))))
                  But still a mess))))))))))
                  I’ll conduct a special operation at night)))
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 11 June 2012 15: 08
      +3
      For a complete assembly of disassembling Tavor ??
  9. Joker
    Joker 11 June 2012 11: 12
    +2
    Well, I don’t know, personally, I find bullpup machines uncomfortable.
    1. Dust
      Dust 11 June 2012 11: 15
      +2
      And so it seems to me - this is such a prejudice ...
      1. Fidain
        Fidain 11 June 2012 13: 12
        +4
        Ya skore sklonen dumat chto ne nado vsyo unificirovot, v CCCP pitalis odin avtomat na vse sluchi zhizni.Avtomat dolzhen zanimat svoyo mesy na pole boia, pistolet pulimyot svoyo.A to chto Tavor v 2012 delaet to chto tto let me know uzhe pokazatel. Navernoe Tavor udobnie dlya specov, no v rukax prostovo soldata eto dorogaya igrushka.
    2. woland05
      woland05 11 June 2012 14: 12
      +2
      It seems to me - on the contrary. Practical and promising. For example, the trunk can be made longer. Even one cm - already the result ...
      1. Pimply
        11 June 2012 16: 50
        +11
        It is worth noting that recently more and more clashes occur in residential areas. And there the dimensions of the weapon are extremely important.
    3. Pimply
      11 June 2012 16: 49
      +8
      Did you hold such a machine gun in your hand? All prejudices disappear immediately when you take a GOOD bull-dad in your hands and put it to your shoulder.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 11 June 2012 21: 33
        +3
        All prejudices immediately disappear when you take a GOOD bullpup in your hands and put it on your shoulder.

        I don’t know, I am somehow impressed by the short SCAR, that L, that H. H is more. Which this one:

        He is with GP

        Just a question: "What X ... ours cannot create something similar on the basis of the same Kalash or the same carpet?"
        1. Joker
          Joker 11 June 2012 22: 05
          +3
          I support you, I also really like this handsome man.
          Ours cannot do this, because you look at the photos from the factory, there is almost all manual labor, the machines are old, and for such an automatic machine you need expensive equipment plus plastic manufacturing technologies, etc. you notice, after all, that AK was made rather rudely, it’s all due to the fact that production is outdated already, financial injections are needed to make such machines, again it won’t be a combined arms weapon, but purely for specialists it won’t pay off if we could have citizens to buy weapons, the civilian market would have pulled all this out, and this is a deliberately disastrous investment, especially since we except AK do not recognize anything anymore, AEK was ruined, and he was so good at that time.
          1. wei
            wei 11 June 2012 22: 57
            +1
            expensive equipment plus plastic manufacturing technology

            I agree to all 100
            with chemistry, we have a big trouble, even with the Sovdepe we bought, tried our plastic one marriage (this is about civil production, but on P \ I)
        2. Alexey Prikazchikov
          Alexey Prikazchikov 11 June 2012 22: 14
          0
          Skar is the best trunk of the first half of the 21st century.
          1. Korvin
            Korvin 11 June 2012 23: 10
            +2
            And Beretta ARX160? And BZ Bren 805? Well, then you immediately))))))
            1. Alexey Prikazchikov
              Alexey Prikazchikov 12 June 2012 00: 42
              +1
              Scar is modular and multicolibrene))))))) Plus normal reliability and excellent accuracy you take the platform a bunch of interchangeable trunks osm pic overlays and so on. And you do the very thing for the task.
              1. Pimply
                12 June 2012 16: 06
                +3
                Beretta and Chizet are also modular and multi-caliber. This is a normal theme for modern small arms.
          2. Joker
            Joker 12 June 2012 01: 09
            +3
            And what do you think is the best in the second half?
        3. Korvin
          Korvin 11 June 2012 22: 55
          +2
          Here to each his own. The Israelis in the Arab quarters have such lanes that with the M4 only a machine gun will turn upside down. Whoever fights mainly urban ones prefer rolls.
          1. Alexey Prikazchikov
            Alexey Prikazchikov 12 June 2012 00: 43
            0
            And what does not suit the MCA? M 4 does not differ in large dimensions, and the latest version with a reinforced spring also differs in good reliability, plus a famous pile, which is for the Israelis. And by the way, weapons are not being raised upside down in battle, this contradicts the rules of conducting a fire battle.
            1. Pimply
              12 June 2012 01: 00
              +5
              In fact, there are several reasons.

              a) The first reason is political. Israel needed to manufacture its own automatic weapons. Having eaten the situation with the French at one time, Israel preferred to have its own production lines.
              If desired, in case of problems with the same America, in a short time, it can have an independent production of most types of weapons. Even fighters of the F-16 level (even a little higher) can be put into production in a couple of years (fortunately, Israel is one of the leaders in avionics systems, and all the drawings from Lavi remained).
              And with free, in fact, M-16, Israel preferred to keep the production of Galileo.
              b) Technological. The M16 is a great rifle. Precise, lightweight, comfortable. And, in principle, reliable. But relatively. And when "Tavor" appeared - and, let me remind you, it appeared on an initiative basis, they tested it and found it very suitable.
              Considering the fact that it was comfortable, reliable, accurate, and even shorter than the M-ki, the Tavor was almost perfect. The Israeli army often engages in hostilities in residential buildings, moves in armored vehicles. Therefore "size matters". smile

              Compare. Even with the stock folded, the M4 is larger than the Tavor. And this is with virtually equal barrel length.
              1. Alexey Prikazchikov
                Alexey Prikazchikov 12 June 2012 13: 36
                +1
                Well, correctly, you presented a short-barrel version, but with a standard barrel. And by the way, the trunks are so pokotsany, your chtol, if so then it’s not good to look after the weapons as if you were a wife. And what was there with the service jackets? Well done not about aviation, well, but plan to make your own planes. By the way, it feels like a brand is more reliable than Kalash or not.
                1. igor67
                  igor67 12 June 2012 13: 47
                  +1
                  Alexey Prikazchikov,
                  pokotsali because in the first weapon in combat units. and the second soldier serves 3 years and weapons with it both at home and on the beach
                  1. sergey261180
                    sergey261180 12 June 2012 13: 53
                    +1
                    If it is worth taking prisoners, then only in the Israeli army. laughing
                    1. igor67
                      igor67 12 June 2012 14: 10
                      +4
                      sergey261180,
                      True, the magazine from the rifle in a public place must be moved separately (this can be seen in the photo). If the girl is stopped by a patrol and finds a "forgotten" cartridge in the chamber, then - there will be a big ass. For the loss of weapons - prison.

                      So, a similar picture can often be observed: they drag themselves everywhere - even to the beach and barbecue
                      1. Pimply
                        12 June 2012 16: 32
                        +4
                        In "Tavors" now they often put this wonderful fuse, which allows you to carry the store inside.
                    2. Korvin
                      Korvin 12 June 2012 16: 54
                      +2
                      Dangerous)) As you know, a captured soldier gives weapons to a captive and only a captured Israeli soldier manages to sell his weapon to a captive and on credit for ten years at good interest))))
                2. Pimply
                  12 June 2012 16: 12
                  +3
                  No, not mine, I served a deferment, but they give another in reserve. Kotsanye - because they use it actively, and spend all their 24 hours a day with weapons: they go to the shower, sleep with him under the pillow, etc. And this is not a form of speech. Automatic with a soldier ALWAYS.

                  What you call the short version is now becoming the standard IDF weapon wink So it will not be in the subject.

                  About aviation - read about Project Lavi. I once interviewed one of its developers, so he said that the plane was quite up to par. And according to reviews, it was superior to F16. We developed it in 5 years. Two prototypes flew. But the Americans blocked the air out of competition. As a result, the documents on Lavi were sold to China, who used them in their developments.

                  And Israel has focused on the development of Aivionics and UAVs. In which, by the way, and succeeded
            2. Korvin
              Korvin 12 June 2012 13: 15
              0
              I say in Kasbah alleys the width of our village need, try to go into the toilet cubicle with any classic layout of at least carbine length and quickly turn around to carry fire behind your back without lifting the barrel through the top or without lowering through the bottom. That's what I mean.
        4. Pimply
          11 June 2012 23: 42
          +8
          Popenker in 2009 had a discussion on Scar for reviews from real yuzanya.

          http://mpopenker.livejournal.com/1025780.html
        5. Sehiru san
          Sehiru san 13 June 2012 00: 43
          0
          "What X ... ours cannot create something similar on the basis of the same Kalash or the same carpet?"

          Or maybe trimmed with fur? and paint pink? Like this?

          A weapon is a weapon. Personally, the old AKM is also convenient for me.
          1. Pimply
            13 June 2012 02: 25
            +1
            You can walk with a sword. Also convenient
            1. Sehiru san
              Sehiru san 13 June 2012 09: 25
              +1
              For close combat and a sword is good. But nitpicking to Kalash usually comes from those who can’t shoot. Great car. I never had a problem with him. In addition, Kalash is a world brand. No other weapon deserved it.

              Monument in Egypt.


              Afghan rug.
              I didn’t say anything about coats of arms ... wink
  10. sergey69
    sergey69 11 June 2012 11: 34
    +4
    In Ukraine, they collect Tavor on a lens for the needs of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
  11. Kars
    Kars 11 June 2012 12: 17
    +6
    At an arms exhibition in Paris

    not only Israeli assault rifles
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 11 June 2012 14: 45
      -6
      God's stuff again recourse wassat
      1. Kars
        Kars 11 June 2012 17: 03
        +2
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        God's stuff again

        Am I mixed up the photo and put the T-90 MS?
        1. Alexey Prikazchikov
          Alexey Prikazchikov 11 June 2012 22: 05
          -4
          No, you put this omg called a bastion.
          1. Kars
            Kars 11 June 2012 22: 33
            +1
            Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
            No, you put this omg called a bastion.

            and I was already scared, so the super-duper MS will not show its beautiful body for the running model at the European exhibition? As well as at the victory parade in Nizhny Tagil?
            1. Alexey Prikazchikov
              Alexey Prikazchikov 11 June 2012 22: 57
              0
              MS is not a layout.
    2. Pimply
      11 June 2012 17: 10
      +7
      There is a lot that goes. Major Exhibition
    3. Joker
      Joker 11 June 2012 22: 06
      -1
      In which shed did this? At least they wouldn’t paint with sexual paint.
      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
        Alexey Prikazchikov 11 June 2012 22: 09
        -3
        Yes, to hell with her paint suo is insignificant there, and this is the most important thing. Plus, there is no integration into a single network with a UAV and other types of troops, although this is available at Merkava, Vol. 72 Rogatka, Abrams. And by the way, camouflage is really not very good even for the tropics, even if the Chinese had chtol licked the tank pixel, since the normal color system itself does not have enough brains to develop.
        1. Kars
          Kars 11 June 2012 22: 35
          0
          Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
          . Plus, there is no integration into a single network with UAV and other types of troops

          And what do you have? Does it integrate with itself?


          And buyers will already paint.
          1. Alexey Prikazchikov
            Alexey Prikazchikov 11 June 2012 22: 56
            -1
            On the slingshot and ms there, the prada is not the UAV itself winked but it’s only a matter of time and the nearest tongue
            1. Kars
              Kars 11 June 2012 23: 04
              +2
              Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
              On the slingshot and ms there is

              Will you think for two? Or for three?
              Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
              a matter of time and the nearest

              What again will you agree with Israel?
              Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
              MS is not a layout.

              Yes, yes of course, no one even doubts.
              1. Eugene
                Eugene 12 June 2012 00: 00
                +3
                Are you fighting again, Andrey?)
                I’m wondering why they carry only BM Oplot? Or is nobody in Europe interested in a tank with a 120mm cannon for a NATO shell?

                PS about TMS, Tarasenko asked if there was an automatic target tracking in Oplot, something he didn’t answer smile
                1. Kars
                  Kars 12 June 2012 00: 08
                  +4
                  And what to do comes.

                  But Oplot-M is already serial, but Yatagan is not. I’m more interested why Bulat and T-64Е are not exported.

                  As for the automatic support, it is most likely not there. But to install it optionally, I don’t have any difficulties.
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 12 June 2012 00: 22
                    +5
                    Andrew!
                    And why should Ukraine produce so many different types of tank ??
                    Do you plan to sell issue licenses to other countries ??
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 12 June 2012 00: 36
                      +6
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      And why should Ukraine produce so many different types of tank ??

                      So Ukraine Bulaty makes of existing tanks that simply IS. T-64E this can be said a private initiative of the Kiev tank repair.

                      About licenses ----- vryatli, potential customers vryatli able to master the independent release. Maximum assembly.
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 12 June 2012 00: 46
                        +4
                        but about Yatagan can we say that this is a new tank ??
                        in the sense of differences from the Bastion a lot?
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 12 June 2012 00: 51
                        +5
                        I don’t know what was done to him after the Turkish tender, and so the 120 mm gun and the horizontal automatic loader do not remember anything else.
                        so vryatli can be called new, rather a modification.
              2. Alexey Prikazchikov
                Alexey Prikazchikov 12 June 2012 00: 36
                0
                Nets, this is the difference from you rogues, we have money to develop, such a UAV will be ready for the first quarter of 2013 and shocked by 2014, for everything else, there’s no reason to speak.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 12 June 2012 00: 39
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                  such a UAV will be ready for the first quarter of 2013

                  Really? Well, let's wait - it’s not so long.
                  And by the way, we don’t really need UAVs, we will need it - we’ll do it, we will need it urgently, we’ll buy it.
                  1. Joker
                    Joker 12 June 2012 01: 14
                    +1
                    laughing if we need it, we’re digging ideas from the Russians and we’ll call it eagle, we will urgently need to kneel before NATO and they will give us a couple of things that we will then replicate in all the news and say how cool we are. We know all this, an already passed stage.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 12 June 2012 01: 17
                      +2
                      Quote: Joker
                      we collect ideas from Russians and call eagle-m,

                      And what will your FeESBe do?
                      Quote: Joker
                      we will urgently need to kneel before NATO and they will give us a couple of things in debt

                      The same option, you did not disdain to Israel, thirty years ago, and even the ancient Italian wheeled tank dragged --- .. FOR TESTING ..
                      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
                        Alexey Prikazchikov 12 June 2012 02: 50
                        +1
                        This is called the Russian national bureaucratic fun.
                    2. Alexey Prikazchikov
                      Alexey Prikazchikov 12 June 2012 02: 48
                      +1
                      This is definitely better and you won’t say it. Now 2 tingling is there. The Constellation has come up and it’s installed on all the equipment even on the armored personnel carrier and the function is there and there it’s in principle laid emphasis on it plus it was integrated with the archer for land explorers and already there are 4 types of reconnaissance if do not count satellites.
  12. Korvin
    Korvin 11 June 2012 15: 03
    +1
    I like X95aya more and more, it grows, it becomes full-sized from a microtavor. The grenade launcher is not very visually, the short version of the XM320 would fit in more organically. The prototype was funny spilled Vector EsEr21. Beauty girls, fell in love ready to surrender)))
    1. Pimply
      11 June 2012 16: 53
      +7
      There is, as I understand it, a shorter version of the grenade launcher.
      Found his view from another angle.

      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 21 June 2012 00: 35
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        Found his view from another angle.

        Very erotic picture :)
  13. OSTAP BENDER
    OSTAP BENDER 11 June 2012 16: 17
    +2
    Why don’t they throw this device in the dry sand? Only wet clay everywhere, after the sand, see, will not shoot !!!!
    1. Pimply
      11 June 2012 17: 09
      +7
      Here it is, Tavor's Achilles heel. Sand. Exactly.
        1. 755962
          755962 21 June 2012 23: 55
          +1
          Super ... fire, water, sand .... well, and copper pipes provided to him.
  14. Yarbay
    Yarbay 11 June 2012 16: 57
    +4
    *** then Azerbaijan plans to replace the Tavor AK, having built a factory for the production of this assault rifle on its territory. *** - I do not understand Azerbaijan and Tavor will produce Ak-74 ??
    Indeed, last year we acquired a license for AK !!
    1. Pimply
      11 June 2012 17: 09
      +7
      There is such an option. In Israel, it is now parallel in service with the 16 and Tavor.
  15. Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 11 June 2012 18: 12
    +3
    Quote:
    For comparison, the GP-25 and GP-30, which are in service with the Russian army, weigh 1.5 and 1.3 kg, respectively, and the firing range is 150 meters.

    The GP-25 has an aiming range of 400 meters.
    1. Pimply
      11 June 2012 18: 21
      +6
      So comparable. I am repelled by the data posted by Popenker.

      http://world.guns.ru/grenade/rus/gp-25-and-gp-30-r.html
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 11 June 2012 18: 29
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        So comparable. I am repelled by the data posted by Popenker.
        http://world.guns.ru/grenade/rus/gp-25-and-gp-30-r.html


        http://www.arms.ru/Guns/grenade/gp2501.htm
        http://zonawar.ru/rash_guns/rg_granatomet_gp-25_ru.html
        http://gunsite.narod.ru/gp25_30.htm
        http://www.bratishka.ru/archiv/2010/12/2010_12_5.php
  16. Petrovich72
    Petrovich72 11 June 2012 22: 10
    +3
    the automation mechanism is copied from the American AR-18. also a weapon, only according to the bullpup scheme. I don’t know which Israelis are the designers, but the Komersants are the best in the world!

    Russians need to tune their ADS and they can push the whole world for good loot
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 11 June 2012 23: 02
      +1
      Quote: petrovich72
      their ADS and they can push the whole world for good loot

      They gave preference to AS "Val", SR-3 "Whirlwind", "Vintorez" to various modifications, but they could well agree with you.
    2. wei
      wei 11 June 2012 23: 11
      +2
      Russians need to tune their ADS and they can push the whole world for good loot

      I agree your words and the king in the ears
    3. chukapabra
      chukapabra 12 June 2012 06: 58
      +1
      Quote: petrovich72
      the automation mechanism is copied from the American AR-18. also a weapon, only according to the bullpup scheme. I don’t know which Israelis are the designers, but the Komersants are the best in the world!

      In general, from the point of view of the mechanism of work, everything was once invented. And the mechanism is an open shutter for machine guns and the use of waste powder gases to return the shutter and the rotation of a group of shafts on both Gartling and drum systems.
      If everything is so simple, why AK is still not modernized as it should and AK12 is worn like a chicken with an egg, and besides the exhibition samples, things are not going on. The army is fighting and today it needs a machine gun suitable for the realities and tasks of today's battle.
      Everything else is demagogy, but the answer is one, whether a weapon is at war or not, whether the troops like it or not. It is convenient for a soldier or not.
      In Israel, mine will cope with this promptly and deliver to the troops what does a soldier need today.
      1. igor67
        igor67 12 June 2012 12: 15
        +5
        chukapabra,
        it’s just Alexander if the Russian chief of staff would have looked like a Kalash with an Israeli one. then he thought about it, and so in a Mercedes nafa he is needed
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 12 June 2012 13: 24
          0
          All right Igor, but this concerns not only the Russian chief of staff !!
          1. igor67
            igor67 12 June 2012 13: 31
            +2
            Yarbay,
            good morning dear Alibek of a bright day to you my friend
      2. Petrovich72
        Petrovich72 13 June 2012 11: 57
        0
        I completely agree. You didn’t understand my idea, they know how to "present the goods", which they cannot do in Russia. Out of curiosity, I looked at many Israeli products, incl. famous all over the world-Uzi-clone of the Czech Holek submachine gun (running the bolt on the barrel, magazine in the handle, etc. In fact, the main difference is the stamped box, in contrast to the round one among the Czechs. Jericho-clone of the Czech CZ75. Automatic Galil -clone AK. Lavi-made according to the F-16 duck scheme-sold to the Chinese-they release it under the name J-10. Etc. (I can continue the list). The same applies to Tavor-technically new-nothing (in differences from other bulpups-F-2000 or ADS or kel-tech RFB) -a have already been sold to several countries.
        1. Pimply
          13 June 2012 18: 41
          +1
          Well, about Uzi is a bit controversial. There is one feature - the Czech PP was not delivered to the region, and was released in a very small batch within one year, from 1949 to 1950, and was not exported during this period, but went only to 1951. Gal also developed his own PP in 1949. There was no Internet at that time, so it is doubtful. There is a high probability that he reached it, since at a certain stage of technical progress, scientists in different countries often make identical discoveries completely independently of each other.
          1. Petrovich72
            Petrovich72 13 June 2012 21: 47
            0
            You're wrong. Just PP Holek was used in the war with the Arabs in the newly created Israel. I can search the link where I read about it. His in Israel, as you know, nebylo-fought all that you have to. By the way, the Union for the first time supported Israel, they even delivered something from technology.
            1. Pimply
              14 June 2012 00: 24
              +1
              PP Holek began supplying the Czechoslovak army in 1951-1952. Do you understand? Czechoslovakia supplied weapons to Israel, but these were Mauser rifles, for example. Gal started development in 1949, and in 51 there was already a prototype. That is, BEFORE the new sample was exported.



              See, Uzi hang? Upper

              Read, there is a very detailed analysis of this topic by Oleg Granovsky - and he, as a rule, writes very weighted articles.

              http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/uzi.htm
              1. Pimply
                14 June 2012 00: 51
                +1
                Forgot to add - those that left.

                Here it is, the first ultrasound, 51-th year, a prototype. Development began about the same as that of the Czechs.



                If you pay attention, next to it, in the next row, hangs the "Kara" PP - also a prototype in honor of Major Khaim Kara, head of the weapons development department at the IDF.
              2. Sehiru san
                Sehiru san 14 June 2012 08: 40
                0
                USSR through Czechoslovakia just delivered there and Kalash. (normal heroes always go around)
                1. Pimply
                  19 June 2012 13: 04
                  +1
                  What are Kalash? What's wrong??? In 1949 m ???? To Israel? A machine gun, which has just been adopted for service, is secret, and has not gone into the army of the USSR ???
                  1. Sehiru san
                    Sehiru san 19 June 2012 14: 58
                    +1
                    Imagine yes. Even old Israelis will tell about this. And already in 60, the license of this secret machine gun was sold to Finland, and in 69, Israel, which had already spoiled relations with the USSR, bought a license for Valmet from the Finns and began to make its own Galil. The choice was dictated by the experience of using Kalash in real combat conditions.
                    And about the novelty and secrecy ...
                    Here is a snapshot.

                    This rifle also does not go in a large series, and there are few of them in the troops, and the Syrian fighters already have ...
                    1. Pimply
                      19 June 2012 15: 30
                      +1
                      Respected. If you study the Israeli registers - and there were very strict records, you will find that Czechoslovakia supplied a lot of things, but not AK, and in particular, the Czech version of the Mauser rifle. AK and other Soviet weapons began to fall into Israel later, after numerous wars. If Kalash got to Israel earlier, it would have long been a subject of discussion in many monographs.
                      1. Sehiru san
                        Sehiru san 19 June 2012 16: 49
                        +1
                        I have an Israeli officer at the War Review Club. He is a military historian by education. I'll try to check with him. smile
                        But I have data what exactly was. I’ll clarify the answer.
                      2. Sehiru san
                        Sehiru san 21 June 2012 12: 40
                        +1
                        The answer of an Israeli friend. As I have promised.
                        Officially, the Kalashnikov assault rifle was not delivered to Israel and is not in service. An unofficial but common opinion is that the first Kalash were taken as trophies in the Sinai company. As for the earlier options, I have no such exact information. From Czechoslovakia, captured German or obsolete weapons were delivered.
                        At the same time, it is known that in a number of units of the Israeli army commissars were appointed, from among the experienced front-line commissars. For example, the famous political instructor Sashka. The most popular story is about the capture of Beer Sheva, when the city was taken by a battalion in Soviet uniform, led by a captain with a star of a Hero of the USSR, shouting to the soldiers "For the Motherland! For Stalin!" Or a story like in the early 1950s in the Mossad they were looking for a person who spoke Hebrew to meet the high Israeli authorities. The Mosad authorities did not speak the language. So the test of weapons, by order of the Supreme, could well have been in those years.


                        So it is possible and likely, although it may not. wink
            2. Sehiru san
              Sehiru san 14 June 2012 08: 54
              0
              The Union for the first time supported Israel, even something was supplied from technology.


              Moreover, deliveries went just through Czechoslovakia. Through it, Soviet officers and soldiers of Jewish nationality also went to freshly baked Israel.
    4. Sehiru san
      Sehiru san 12 June 2012 19: 15
      0
      the piston has a long stroke. The barrel is locked by turning the shutter 7 fighting stops.

      The AR-18 rifle was built on the basis of a gas engine with a short piston stroke located above the barrel
      1. Petrovich72
        Petrovich72 13 June 2012 11: 39
        0
        AR-18-long-stroke piston gas above the barrel and locking by 7 combat stops
        1. Sehiru san
          Sehiru san 13 June 2012 12: 45
          0
          In contrast to Stoner's “piston-free” developments (AR-10, AR-15 / M16), the AR-18 has a more standard gas piston device with a short stroke. The piston, made in the form of a glass, "worn" on the pipe of the gas chamber, has its own return spring. The barrel is locked by turning the shutter, similar to that of the M16.

          Arma Lite AR-18 assault rifle automation works by removing part of the powder gases from the barrel bore. Powder gases act on the mirror of the gas piston, and not on the shutter, as is done with the Arma Lite AR -15 / Colt M16. When fired, the barrel channel is locked by turning the shutter with setting it to seven combat stops.

          The AR-18 rifle was built on the basis of a gas engine with a short piston stroke located above the barrel. The gas piston is made in the form of a glass, covering the exhaust pipe of the gas chamber, and has its own return spring. The barrel is locked by a rotary bolt, similar in design to the shutter of the A15 / M16 rifle, and locked by the receiver. The rectangular-shaped bolt frame moves inside the receiver on two guide rods, each of which has its own return spring. The rotation of the shutter is carried out using a pin moving in a figured groove cut in the wall of the shutter frame. The bolt group together with guide rods and return springs is assembled into a single module using the front and rear end panels, and is removed as a whole when disassembling the weapon. The cocking handle is rigidly fixed to the bolt frame on the right and moves when firing. The slot in the receiver for the movement of the shutter handle is closed by a spring-loaded lid. The mechanism provides for stopping the shutter in the open position when all cartridges in the magazine are used up (shutter lag).


          If necessary, I can give links.
  17. Sehiru san
    Sehiru san 12 June 2012 19: 05
    +1
    Oh, something tells me that IT looks like our Thunderstorm ... It also doesn’t come from Kalash.

    That's always the way, some will do it, and then other "designers" remove the foam ...
    1. Pimply
      13 June 2012 02: 27
      +1
      Bulpap - very old lineup.
      1. Sehiru san
        Sehiru san 13 June 2012 08: 44
        0
        Very very much so.
  18. Ergenekon
    Ergenekon 12 June 2012 20: 32
    -1
    The concepts are not bad in the photo.
  19. Professor
    Professor 13 June 2012 10: 26
    +1
    1. Sehiru san
      Sehiru san 13 June 2012 10: 43
      0
      There he throws off the lottery on the Green Card. And I don't need to go there ... smile
  20. Suvorov000
    Suvorov000 13 June 2012 12: 56
    +1
    One question, there is someone who shot from the brand, I wanted to listen to his opinion
  21. Havoc
    Havoc 18 June 2012 14: 19
    +1
    An automaton is just a tool. Soldier, this is a weapon.