Military Review

Korean media: India is ready to prefer Korean K-30 Biho to Russian "Shell"

153
The South Korean press said that the Russian Ministry of Defense expressed "discontent" with India’s readiness to acquire K-30 Biho self-propelled air defense systems from the Republic of Korea. This is an anti-aircraft complex, which, in addition to 30-mm cannons, has anti-aircraft missile blocks. KP-SAM Shin-Gung.


Korean media: India is ready to prefer Korean K-30 Biho to Russian "Shell"


It is argued that India is ready to make a choice in favor of the Korean air defense systems, preferring the Korean K-30 to the Russian Arms.

In the newspaper “The Korea JoongAng Daily” it is stated that the Indian partners rely on Biho after the tests and tests. The same edition claims that the Indian military "impressed with the capabilities of the Korean air defense system", which can move at speeds up to 60 km / h and carry out 1200 rounds per minute from anti-aircraft guns. In India, consider this option as an effective tool in the fight against drones.

From the material in the Korean press:
Moscow is a traditional supplier weapons to India — apparently, she set before her Minister of Defense, Sergei Shoigu, the task of publicly expressing her dissatisfaction with the decision on the sidelines of a military conference. In addition, the Russian side stated that the tests were conducted unfairly, and it requires repetition. Following this, a request was sent to the Indian Ministry of Defense to revise the bidding process.

In South Korea, they say that the contract involves the purchase of X-NUMX K-104 Biho systems with command vehicles and ammunition sets by India. In Seoul, called the contract value - up to 30 billion dollars.

It is noted that the Republic of Korea sent a letter to New Delhi in which it calls on India to “finalize the contract”.
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  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 5 January 2019 07: 37
    +10
    Hindus as small children, by God. They want to buy from Korea, let them buy. And I very much doubt that the Korean TTX complex is comparable with the Shell. Especially with the Shell-SM.
    Hindus apparently believe that if you take both of these, you can get all the best from both. But ... drug training, technical part, repair, etc. ... all this then becomes more complicated and more expensive.
    1. kjhg
      kjhg 5 January 2019 07: 57
      +5
      And I very much doubt that the Korean TTX complex is comparable with the Shell.
      Only tests can show this. All the tricks can be in some of the nuances of these tests, where the Korean system won. For example, if a simple Shell C1 was involved, then it could well have turned out that he showed himself poorly against unmanned vehicles. After all, there was a lot of information that he had problems with intercepting small drones, which have low speed and they can freeze. Yes, and there were claims to the radar, which can not distinguish birds from drones. But on the new version, Shell C2 seems to have eliminated all these shortcomings.
      1. bulvas
        bulvas 5 January 2019 09: 05
        +20

        Resentment and indignation have nothing to do with it.

        Let those responsible for sales work.
        This is their bread and their task is to push through the order.

        It is necessary - it means it is necessary to improve the performance characteristics, this will be in our favor
        We need other measures (commercial) - also do not whine, the world is now like this, a little gape - they will devour

        Maybe the wrong people are doing it?
        You can fight for such a contract.



        1. svp67
          svp67 5 January 2019 10: 46
          +14
          Quote: bulvas
          Let those responsible for sales work.
          This is their bread and their task is to push through the order.

          But excuse me "Pantsir" and this K-30 are different machines. I would still understand everything that happens if I compared the "K-30" and "Tunguska"
          1. bulvas
            bulvas 5 January 2019 11: 09
            +2
            Quote: svp67
            But excuse me "Pantsir" and this K-30 are different machines. I would still understand everything that happens if I compared the "K-30" and "Tunguska"


            Sorry for this to Hindu customers

            I have nothing to do with
            hi

            I have no doubt that "Shell" is an extremely worthy system

            soldier

            1. Setrac
              Setrac 5 January 2019 22: 09
              +1
              Quote: bulvas
              I have no doubt that "Shell" is an extremely worthy system

              But she is not military
              1. bulvas
                bulvas 5 January 2019 22: 12
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                Quote: bulvas
                I have no doubt that "Shell" is an extremely worthy system

                But she is not military



                And what does it mean?
                make it clear if not difficult
                hi

                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 5 January 2019 22: 13
                  0
                  Quote: bulvas
                  And what does it mean?
                  make it clear if not difficult

                  We need another tracked chassis.
                  1. bulvas
                    bulvas 5 January 2019 22: 13
                    0
                    Quote: Setrac
                    Quote: bulvas
                    And what does it mean?
                    make it clear if not difficult

                    We need another tracked chassis.


                    Indians just this does not suit?


                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 5 January 2019 22: 48
                      +1
                      Quote: bulvas
                      Indians just this does not suit?

                      Most likely the Indians do not triple the size of the bribe.
                      1. aws4
                        aws4 7 January 2019 01: 23
                        0
                        the Indians are not satisfied with the ability of the gun to work on small drones and barrage of ammunition ... yes, the shell has more missiles but the effectiveness of the gun is much worse when working for these purposes .. in fact, it remains almost defenseless after firing missiles in front of the barrage of ammunition, but the K30 works and for them and for small drones perfectly ... so instead of piling on Indians, it would be better to solve a set of problems associated with this ...
                      2. Setrac
                        Setrac 7 January 2019 09: 53
                        0
                        Quote: aws4
                        in fact, it remains almost defenseless after firing missiles in front of the barrage of ammunition, but the K30 works fine on them and on small drones ...

                        And there and there 30 mm guns, what's the difference?
                        Quote: aws4
                        Indians are not satisfied with the ability of the gun to work on small drones and ammunition

                        You contradict yourself. And most likely they just didn’t understand what they read.
                        Maybe impossibility ???
                      3. aws4
                        aws4 7 January 2019 22: 15
                        -1
                        do you think if there and there 30mm guns they work equally well on drones? the question is not the caliber and the rate of fire the question is what are essentially the same 2A38 guns with minor changes .. now in more detail why and why they put this gun in the tunguska and did not leave the 23mm machine gun on a pin ... the task was set to increase not only range but also armor penetration, since planes and helicopters not only began to attack from high altitudes and ranges, but also acquired armor .. for example, having analyzed the effects of a 23mm shell on the same a10, the attack aircraft came to the conclusion that this shell would not always be able to will cope with the armor and inflict sufficient damage where it is already capable of reaching it with its fire ... all the accuracy and calculation tasks and guns and suo were performed by Soviet designers at 5+ according to calculations, the volley was supposed to give a certain spread and provide a certain lesion area into which it flies the plane ... all this works great precisely on airplanes and helicopters, but alas, bad drones and ammunition are malfunctioning. .different things happened during exercises in our army, the drone flew into the gun’s zone of destruction, one small drone fired a volley and due to this it flew perfectly through the fire zone between the shells and went out unharmed while the warriors on the shell had to finish it off with missiles ... the Koreans worked on both the sow and the cannon and now the cannon is controlled by a new electronic system that provides the cannon with very high accuracy with a minimum consumption of shells precisely for the small-sized goals that I wrote about above ... the conclusion is that the shell is better in aviation work its art system has a large it carries 12 missiles and for planes and helicopters it is more formidable than the Korean, but for drones and barrage of ammunition it actually has only 12 missiles and its guns are not only effective for hitting drones but also for protection against small killers))) )) the Korean, having only 4 rockets, is able to protect himself much better from the little killers and spank the devil the pilot is the fire of guns ... now I hope I gave a more detailed answer?
                      4. Setrac
                        Setrac 7 January 2019 22: 22
                        -1
                        Quote: aws4
                        Now I hope I gave a more detailed answer?

                        You write crap and not a detailed answer.
                        Quote: aws4
                        Now the operation of the gun is controlled by a new electronic system which ensures the gun a very high accuracy with a minimum consumption of shells

                        Alas, no one will cancel the "spread", no matter what "superpupersitem of aiming" you have. On the contrary, due to the higher rate of fire (four times), our system will work better against drones.
                      5. aws4
                        aws4 7 January 2019 22: 37
                        0
                        Well, if this is crap, why then they asked ... I will advise you to first study the issue and learn more from open sources about K-30
                      6. Setrac
                        Setrac 8 January 2019 00: 25
                        0
                        Quote: aws4
                        Well, if this is crap why then they asked ...

                        It seems there are shells with remote detonation ... interesting. But it turned out you are not in the know.
                      7. aws4
                        aws4 8 January 2019 07: 18
                        0
                        so like or yes? or not? laughing are we playing fortune tellers or what? laughing as it turned out, you dodge as you can .. in principle, it’s considered normal here, not the first, not the last ... well, so please answer a question like or exactly where the shells are used with remote detonation and please provide the marking of the shell laughing fool
                      8. Setrac
                        Setrac 8 January 2019 11: 27
                        0
                        Quote: aws4
                        well, so please answer a question like or exactly where the shells are used with remote detonation

                        Yes, how do I know, it's you here
                        Quote: aws4
                        dodge as you can

                        in support of the Korean car.
                        Quote: aws4
                        and please provide the marking of the shell

                        on the collar so that the neck is not rubbed.
                      9. aws4
                        aws4 9 January 2019 01: 01
                        0
                        ah, so when you ask me questions, I think you should answer, and when I asked you a question you can either laugh it off or answer - (yes how do I know, it's you here) which dialogue we have is interesting ... although not what dialogue is it I'm just being questioned by a patriot laughing but about the fact that I support the Korean car, you gave a blunder because I highlighted the advantages of the shell; you just need to re-read my comments again, but obviously people like you have only black and white ... and at the expense of subtle rudeness that will be censored about the collar I will answer you the same way - put yourself on the cheek ..
                      10. Setrac
                        Setrac 9 January 2019 18: 44
                        -1
                        Quote: aws4
                        ah means when you ask me questions, I think you should answer, and when I asked you a question you can or laugh it off

                        You claim that the Korean 30mm cannon is better than that of the "shell", allegedly because it has some kind of sophisticated electronic aiming systems.
                        I answer you - it’s good to sculpt a humpback, no one canceled the spread in shooting and no special aiming systems will help here.
                        You no longer find the advantages of the Korean air defense system. I answered you - "carapace" is four times faster.
                        Further, you require me to have some data on the Korean air defense system, but why on earth? After all, it’s you who are agitating for Koreans, so tell us what their advantage is.
                        You have some unreasonable requirements for me, it’s clear that it revolted me, agitate for the Korean air defense system without my help.
        2. zyzx
          zyzx 5 January 2019 14: 45
          +1
          Quote: bulvas
          It is necessary - it means it is necessary to improve the performance characteristics

          Are you 10 years old? The size of the rollback needs to be improved, then they even recognize the quadruple maxim as an ideal.
          1. bulvas
            bulvas 5 January 2019 15: 49
            +1
            Quote: zyzx
            Are you 10 years old? The size of the rollback needs to be improved, then they even recognize the quadruple maxim as an ideal.


            Not 10.

            But not 15, as you, judging by the fact that you know nothing but a rollback.

        3. Vladimir T
          Vladimir T 6 January 2019 01: 41
          +1
          Exactly! We must offer them old "shilki". Shoot drones. Or anti-aircraft guns of the Second World War.
        4. Klingon
          Klingon 6 January 2019 20: 17
          -2
          unsuccessful marketing does not work for us, it seems that marketers didn’t read Tom Sawyer - you need to be able to breathe in even a complete cuano but present it as a sweetie. Why doesn’t it work for ours
      2. Tusv
        Tusv 5 January 2019 11: 32
        +6
        Quote: kjhg
        After all, there was a lot of information that he had problems intercepting small drones, which have low speed and they can freeze.

        But does KP-SAM have information that there are no such problems? Or can he destroy the Kyrgyz Republic?
        All the tricks can be in some of the nuances of these tests, where the Korean system won

        Figase nuances. It’s like the ZMS in the all-around versus the First Class:
        The carapace knocks down a Harpoon target at a distance of 9,4. Small speed -7.4. Chiron has a maximum speed of only 7 km versus 18. Max speed is 57E6E 3,8M versus Chiron 2.5M. Defeat height 15 vs 3.5
        Generally. We cross Shilka with MANPADS Needle, fasten tracking and guidance means and place it on a truck. Then let's talk about the nuances hi
      3. Rzzz
        Rzzz 5 January 2019 12: 07
        +10
        Quote: kjhg
        Yes, and there were claims to the radar, which can not distinguish birds from drones


        Since the radar sees both drones and ravens, this is a great radar. What is the difference between a crow and a small drone in terms of radar? EPR is comparable, which means the echo will be similar. Next is the signal post-processing task. Electronic brains paired with the operator’s brains should analyze the parameters of the target’s movement and determine what it is. No drone is able to fly like a bird yet. I mean, there it is not necessary to change the radar, but simply improve the software. Well, if there is a suspicion, then just in case, you can shoot a bird, the security costs. But if it’s any valuable game, you can fry it. :)
        1. dvina71
          dvina71 5 January 2019 12: 35
          +2
          Quote: rzzz
          But if it’s any valuable game, you can fry it. :)

          Something tells me .. the game will not only be cooked .. but also decently beaten ..
    2. Gray brother
      Gray brother 5 January 2019 07: 58
      +10
      Quote: NEXUS
      And I very much doubt that the Korean TTX complex is comparable to the Shell

      Yes, this is a bucket with attached MANPADS, not even close to the "Pantsir". Not if the Indians like it - let them take it, that's their business. But, in my opinion, these are just Koreans in the newspaper praising themselves, they love to write all kinds of game there, such as who shot who from a mortar and how everyone likes the Korean MANPADS on caterpillar tracks.
      1. Gray brother
        Gray brother 5 January 2019 08: 02
        +5
        In general, I do not understand why they compare it with "Pantsir", because it is clearly an analogue of "Tunguska".
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 5 January 2019 08: 03
          +1
          Quote: Gray Brother
          In general, I do not understand why they compare it with "Pantsir", because it is clearly an analogue of "Tunguska".

          The Shell has another name-TUNGUSK-3
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother 5 January 2019 08: 04
            +3
            Quote: NEXUS
            The Shell has another name-TUNGUSK-3

            Yes, even Tunguska-4, this is not a battlefield air defense.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 5 January 2019 08: 08
              +1
              Quote: Gray Brother
              Yes, even Tunguska-4, this is not a battlefield air defense.

              What does the battlefield mean in your concept? The carapace, as well as the TOR, are capable of not only covering stationary targets, but also say firing in motion.
              1. Gray brother
                Gray brother 5 January 2019 08: 15
                +8
                Quote: NEXUS
                , but also say to shoot in motion.

                To move behind tanks or infantry fighting vehicles, you need to have the same cross and at least minimal armor.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 5 January 2019 08: 20
                  +2
                  Quote: Gray Brother
                  To move behind tanks or infantry fighting vehicles, you need to have the same cross and at least minimal armor.

                  Why the Panzer or TORu move behind the tanks in battle, if the radius of these air defense missiles from 20 km and above, do not tell?
                  1. Gray brother
                    Gray brother 5 January 2019 08: 25
                    +9
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Why the Panzer or TORu move behind the tanks in battle, if the radius of these air defense missiles from 20 km and above, do not tell?

                    They - generally not "for nothing".
                    The defense is echeloned, they have a different purpose and they are not its last frontier. The last line is fighters with MANPADS and vehicles of the "Tunguska" type located directly in battle formations.
                  2. Bongo
                    Bongo 5 January 2019 08: 28
                    +9
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Why the Panzer or TORu move behind the tanks in battle, if the radius of these air defense missiles from 20 km and above, do not tell?

                    Andrey, welcome! It is not correct to compare "Armor" with military air defense systems. From the very beginning, "Pantsir" was considered as an air defense missile system intended for escorting columns and object air defense. The real range of destruction of missiles in combat conditions is, at best, 2/3 of the maximum launch range. Moreover, when shooting "for finishing off" and against drones, 30-mm assault rifles are used, with an effective range of no more than 3000 m.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 5 January 2019 08: 31
                      +2
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Andrey, welcome!

                      Serega, I greet you with the past, friend! drinks
                      Quote: Bongo
                      It is not correct to compare "Armor" with military air defense systems.

                      I know. Yes, and I did not compare, but I meant that these air defense systems of near radius and nothing more. It is clear that they have different tasks and opportunities.
                      As for the maximum launch range ... so they modernize both this and that, increasing both the launch range and the detection range.
                  3. donavi49
                    donavi49 5 January 2019 09: 25
                    +3
                    Do you live on a flat earth? Good for you. Typical situation. Covering the columns of the tank brigade. You stand at the tail of the column, the Suhpai have opened and enjoy life. The head of the column drove over the hills and there the Apaches in their signature tactics of jumping on the start of Helfaer and caring for the relief are nightmares. Good luck with the cover of the column. Moreover, Hell 8km is an effective range, even on flat ground at 12 km from the head of the column = you are useless.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 5 January 2019 10: 20
                      +1
                      Quote: donavi49
                      Do you live on a flat earth?

                      Have you replayed computer games? At a DB against the equipped opponent, what Apaches, dear? They do not have time to fly, they are stuck in the ground.
                      He stands at the tail of the column ....
                      such a four Apache flies, but there are neither air defense nor fighters, nor the same helicopter covering the enemy, nor a guy with MANPADS, even the stupidly Tunguski Soviet assembly on 1000 km in no direction. And the brave cowboys on the Apaches are flying a tank convoy column ... fool
                      1. Roman Skomorokhov
                        Roman Skomorokhov 5 January 2019 12: 05
                        +2
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        such four Apaches are flying, and there are neither air defense systems, nor fighters, nor the same helicopters covering the enemy, nor a guy with MANPADS, not even a stupid Tungussky Soviet assembly on the 1000 km in different directions.


                        Yes, a terrible picture is drawn ... Right shivering to the tail.
                    2. faridg7
                      faridg7 5 January 2019 10: 50
                      +11
                      Quote: donavi49
                      even on flat land 12 km from the head of the column = you are useless.

                      Non-resident tank columns. Is this even if you keep an interval of 100 m between units, will you get 120 units in 1 column and only one air defense unit in the tail? Your teachers of tactics and anti-terrorist operation should be ashamed of you
                  4. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 5 January 2019 12: 17
                    +4
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Why the Panzer or TORu move behind the tanks in battle, if the radius of these air defense missiles from 20 km and above, do not tell?

                    Well, let's take a standard situation - covering a column of tracked vehicles on the march. In spring or fall.

                    Where do you see the place of the usual "shell" here? On the "mustache" behind the tractor? wink
                    For military air defense "carapace" needs to be changed chassis.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 5 January 2019 12: 25
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      For military air defense "carapace" needs to be changed chassis.

                      And I argued that the carapace should go after the column? Show me where I said that.
                      I said that the Shell and the TOP are capable of firing in motion and nothing more.
                      To cover the columns on the march there is a TOP.
                      As for these horror stories about Helfire and Apache popping up from behind a hill, we must consider the database in a complex, taking into account ALL defenses and attacks from both sides. We are not Vietnam and not Iraq. And in this situation, Apache has practically no chance to go invisible and whole to the column.
                      1. Cympak
                        Cympak 6 January 2019 02: 41
                        +2
                        The "Shell" will not follow the column, it will tip over. A very high center of gravity, as a result, turns over when driving on normal roads.


                        Moreover, he will not be able to accompany tracked vehicles on the off-road, and even with a track. "Shell" object air defense. He fights well with those objects that fly at him, and poorly with those that fly by with a high parameter. No armor, huge vulnerable antennas. What is the battlefield? For the battlefield, they make "Derivation" with a 57-mm cannon and "Birdies" for the Airborne Forces with SAM "Sosna", which do not have "burdock" antennas.
                      2. faridg7
                        faridg7 6 January 2019 15: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Cympak
                        The "Shell" will not follow the column, it will tip over. A very high center of gravity, as a result, turns over when driving on normal roads.
                        Do you want him to move like cards on the road? He can move in a convoy, of course, he won’t be able to move like a tank, but he doesn’t drive the convoy out of absolute impassability either. And finally, KamAZ is only a chassis, with the same success the installation can be mounted on GM 537, there would be an order.
                2. Tusv
                  Tusv 5 January 2019 11: 57
                  +8
                  Quote: Gray Brother
                  To move behind tanks or infantry fighting vehicles, you need to have the same cross and at least minimal armor.

                  Sergei hi Sorry for the sarcasm, but this shell complex is such a booth with tracking, guidance, guns and missiles. It is placed on a chassis like Kamaz, Tank, Transporter or Stationary (on ships), depending on the conditions of service
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 5 January 2019 08: 34
          +8
          Quote: Gray Brother
          why exactly with "Pantsir" is compared, because it is clearly an analogue of "Tunguska".

          And he does not even reach "Tunguska"! Compare (!): Two (2) 30-mm cannons with a rate of fire of 600 rpm ... versus 2-barreled 30-mm Tunguska assault rifles. Moreover, the "Tunguska" was created immediately, as a cannon-missile system, and the Korean anti-aircraft artillery system was "slaved" by MANPADS, created on the basis of the Russian Igla MANPADS (ie, with IR-GOS)! And this is against the "radio command" planes "Tunguska", which can reach 6 km in height, and up to 10 km in range! (Biho missiles: 3,5 km-n.a .; 7 km-n.a.)
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother 5 January 2019 08: 36
            +2
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            And he does not even reach "Tunguska"!

            This is already particular. I meant the appointment.
          2. Locksmith
            Locksmith 6 January 2019 21: 05
            0
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            And he does not even reach "Tunguska"! Compare (!): Two (2) 30-mm cannons with a rate of fire of 600 rpm each ... against 2-barreled 30-mm Tunguska assault rifles.

            the shell and the tunguska have double-barreled guns, for a total of 4 barrels, so a refinement. wink
      2. Tusv
        Tusv 5 January 2019 11: 38
        +2
        Quote: Gray Brother
        Yes, this is a bucket with an attached MANPADS,

        By the way, they chiron the Hindus vparivayut expensively, for their beloved bought needles, cheaply.
      3. bobba94
        bobba94 5 January 2019 17: 02
        +2
        The Korean system costs more than half the price of the Shell. Indians are not warriors, they are traders. If there is a serious mess with China, then this cheapness will cost the Indians a lot.
    3. Separ DNR
      Separ DNR 5 January 2019 08: 02
      +10
      Quote: NEXUS
      Hindus as small children, by God. They want to buy from Korea, let them buy. And I very much doubt that the Korean TTX complex is comparable with the Shell.

      Perhaps the choice is dictated by the price, the service that the Koreans provide, and perhaps the tracked chassis played a role ...
      In general, Rossoboronexport has something to think about. From the Indians, then, what to take? The master is the master ...
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 5 January 2019 08: 19
        +3
        I don’t understand why the concern for Indian air defense is here. belay Yes, "tops" with them, if only our air defense systems were at their best and met all the requirements of the time ... Or is there already a struggle for dollars? Then answer, why does the Russian defense industry, which refuses to import components, need dollar contracts? Pay off external debt? Or build something on the Cote d'Azur? Even if so - dollars are very necessary for the cause, then one should draw conclusions and work towards advertising and greater attractiveness of Russian weapons and contracts.
        Everything is simple here - you won’t be forcibly sweet.
        1. polar fox
          polar fox 5 January 2019 10: 05
          +2
          Quote: ROSS 42

          I don’t understand in any way why there is concern for Indian air defense? Yes "tops" with them, if only our air defense systems were at their best and met all the requirements of the time ..

          this is true ... and offer armor-packs ... so, for a change))))
      2. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 5 January 2019 08: 50
        +4
        Quote: Separ DNR
        Perhaps the choice is dictated by price,

        Systems are different in capabilities from the word "absolutely" --- range, performance --- here the Russian woman is very noticeably ahead. Therefore, it is somehow awkward to compare them. The Korean woman is the vehicle of the closest line of defense - in fact, a mobile MANPADS with guns. And our rocket is more complicated and everything else is much more serious. Hence the price, as you correctly noted, is noticeably lower. They say that a Korean woman is almost 2.4 times cheaper. I would also add the question of technology --- it’s not a pity to sell the Korean rocket with giblets, so that they can collect /// in India as they always strive ///. And ours is more valuable for themselves in this regard.
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 5 January 2019 09: 37
          +1
          I read that "Carapace!" Has a serious drawback - the rocking of the whole car like a platform when firing cannons.
      3. Alex Kind
        Alex Kind 5 January 2019 09: 46
        +2
        Rollback does not count?
    4. Astra wild
      Astra wild 5 January 2019 09: 25
      +5
      Or maybe everything is simpler: did the Koreans promise a good margin to the Indians? Hindus are squat people, and Koreans specifically set the price than ours and promised a good percentage in the pocket of the receiver Indians.
    5. smart ass
      smart ass 5 January 2019 09: 46
      +2
      There is such a thing - competition is called
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 5 January 2019 10: 05
        +1
        Quote: Snail N9

        I read that "Carapace!" Has a serious drawback - the rocking of the whole car like a platform when firing cannons.

        Better to see once than to read. At the very beginning of the video, he was shooting from cannons. He didn’t notice anything terrible.
        On the snow it leads away more, but in India snow is only on mountain peaks. And the modularity of the design allows you to install, even on the tracks like the Koreans, if you want on the Indian "Tatu" /// Hindus would love this option ///.
        1. Vladimir Teplov
          Vladimir Teplov 5 January 2019 11: 25
          +4
          Did you not notice that the complex was not moving, he stood and stood on the supports
    6. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2019 10: 24
      -1
      Quote: NEXUS
      are buying. And I very much doubt that the Korean TTX complex is comparable with the Shell. Especially with the Shell-SM.

      Where such confidence? Have you tested the K-30 Biho?
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 5 January 2019 11: 41
        +2
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Where such confidence? Have you tested the K-30 Biho?

        Not confidence respected, but doubts. Read it carefully.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 6 January 2019 15: 43
          0
          Quote: NEXUS
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Where such confidence? Have you tested the K-30 Biho?

          Not confidence respected, but doubts. Read it carefully.

          Russian is very rich. But I know him no worse than yours.
          You have doubts not about whether he is better (?), But about whether or not he will be able to REACH to the level of the Shell. Those. it is a priori no better. And - it is not better and is worse or at the level. And for persuasiveness - "especially in comparison with Pantsir-SM." Those. in comparison with Pantsir-SM, there is nothing to talk about - worse.
          Hence my question - have you tested it yourself?
          So, do not powder my brains. And without you there is someone to powder.
          You know, - the word - not a sparrow, ...
    7. venik
      venik 5 January 2019 10: 41
      +7
      Quote: NEXUS
      They want to buy from Korea, let them buy. And I very much doubt that the Korean TTX complex is comparable with the Shell. Especially with the Shell-SM.

      ============
      Andrew! You can even have no doubt!!! It does not even reach "Tunguska"! In general, this is something between the "Shilka-5" and "Tunguska" ... 2x30 mm guns + 8 MANPADS. The affected area is up to 7 km (which is less than that of Pantsyr (20 km) and even Tunguska (8-10 km)). The cannons are really good (I suspect a licensed copy of the German ones), MANPADS - also like nothing ... This machine is actually a Korean version of the German "Cheetah" with the addition of MANPADS. Cost - 12,1 million "bucks" apiece. For comparison - the cost of "Pantsyr" (on a car chassis) - 13,2 - 14,7 million dollars. And this is fully loaded (with guidance radar). Simplified version - cheaper! True - on a tracked chassis - the price is higher than on a wheeled one.
      So the most likely option is that all these "dances with songs" - most likely - a trick that has already become a traditional trick of sly ... um ... "cunning" Indian "comrades" in order to "bring down" the price of "Pantsyri" !! (I hope that ours "will not be led to this" ...). It is not for nothing that Koreans rush the Indians to "secure the contract") - they are also "scientists" !!!
    8. crest
      crest 5 January 2019 11: 01
      +2
      Russia is simply being squeezed out of the Indian arms market. Here the Americans offer the Hindus to buy the "right" weapons in the "right" countries. If we are squeezed out of the combat aircraft market, then everything else is just trifles. But they did buy the S-400.
    9. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 5 January 2019 11: 39
      +2
      Quote: NEXUS
      NEXUS (Andrey) Today, 07: 37

      +6
      Hindus as small children, by God. They want to buy from Korea, let them buy. And I very much doubt that the Korean TTX complex is comparable with the Shell. Especially with the Shell-SM.

      It all depends on how the Indians plan to use this complex. If for the protection of rear objects, this is one thing, but if in battle formations, this is completely different and there the Shell does not dance.
      If the Indians nevertheless need a complex of divisional units, then Thor should be offered, not the Carapace.
      But the Indians also need a gun against small drones ... I.e. reincarnation of Tunguska is required on a new level. By the way, it would not hurt our aircraft.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 5 January 2019 12: 36
        +2
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        Those. reincarnation of Tunguska is required on a new level.

        A new 57-mm anti-aircraft artillery system is being developed in Russia to replace the Tunguska and Shilka complexes, Lieutenant-General Alexander Leonov, chief of the Air Defense Forces of the RF Ground Forces, said on Thursday.

        And the Arrow-10 should be replaced by a Pine.

        According to him, the main purpose of "Pine" is to protect various objects from air attack weapons, including from high-precision weapons of a potential enemy. Its uniqueness lies immediately in several innovative developments of Russian designers.

        Firstly, a combat vehicle can be used in any form of combat operations, including on a march. In the process of state tests, control firing was successfully carried out at a speed of 25-30 kilometers per hour.

        In addition, this air defense system is effective at any time of the day, in simple and difficult weather conditions, as well as in conditions of limited visibility, including in the presence of natural and artificial interference used by the enemy.

        At the same time, “Pine” can work on ground targets. In the process of state testing, it effectively hit lightly armored targets.


        The combat module contains 12 Sosna-R anti-aircraft guided missiles located in transport-launch containers (TPK). Curb TPK with a length of 2,4 meters has a mass of 42 kilograms. The maximum diameter of the rocket body is 130 millimeters, length is 2,32 meters, weight is 30,6 kilograms. In flight, the Sosna-R anti-aircraft guided missile (SAM) is capable of hitting targets flying at speeds up to 300 meters per second at altitudes up to 5 kilometers, cruise missiles at speeds up to 250 meters per second and helicopters up to 100 meters per second. SAM can be successfully used against drones.
        1. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 5 January 2019 20: 38
          0
          Quote: NEXUS
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          Those. reincarnation of Tunguska is required on a new level.

          A new anti-aircraft artillery complex of 57 mm caliber is being developed in Russia to replace the Tunguska and Shilka complexes.

          And the Arrow-10 should be replaced by a Pine.

          One complex is artillery, another missile, and the Indians want artillery and missile.
          If the seller wants to sell his product, he must respect two principles:
          1. The buyer is always right.
          2. If the buyer is not right, see paragraph 1.
    10. northern
      northern 5 January 2019 12: 22
      0
      Hindus in their repertoire - are traded with or without, at any negotiations, the brain is endured by everyone and everything. Very unpleasant guys in the business.
    11. FOBOSS
      FOBOSS 5 January 2019 12: 30
      +1
      I think they understand all the nuances of service. And as Shipunov once said, technology should outperform competitors so much that even in biased conditions produce better results.
      Apparently the Armor is not as good as the t90 at the time.
    12. NF68
      NF68 6 January 2019 16: 10
      0
      Quote: NEXUS
      Hindus as small children, by God.


      They are not many and gypsies. From that and all of them are these constant movements.
  2. Lamatinets
    Lamatinets 5 January 2019 07: 39
    -5
    Yes, give the Indians another golden rattle)))) and they will change the mind))))
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 5 January 2019 10: 40
      +1
      They will not give ... we now have THERE-too greedy. For your pocket, this is yes, anything you want, under any plausible pretext, but for the state, "no, no", every penny is considered .... how can you give it to someone, bypassing your pocket ... and if you don’t offend “your own pocket”, then “someone” will get very little and the whole meaning of “giving” is lost ... wink
  3. Ronin62
    Ronin62 5 January 2019 07: 41
    +3
    Everything is as always. The Indians are still those brains. Now they will stir up with prices and other preferences.
  4. Convoy
    Convoy 5 January 2019 07: 42
    +4
    In India, you can already create a museum of weapons of world brands .. Everyone is buying up!
  5. Warrior-80
    Warrior-80 5 January 2019 07: 42
    -2
    Something this biho looks like a little bullet compared to the shell, so low flying drones shoot down and that’s all, the Indians as always are wise, I think that neither a decent radar nor a rocket, judging by the size of its missile, this biho does not represent anything, it would be nice tth find out
    1. Petr1
      Petr1 5 January 2019 07: 53
      +5
      In fairness, they used to say about Korean cars, but you’re Korean crap. And they go out on the street, all narrow-eyed ...
      1. Warrior-80
        Warrior-80 5 January 2019 08: 13
        +3
        You probably set a minus for me, let's essentially see that the radar is weak with the carapace, the rocket is first 4 against 12 for the carapace, and I think the range is inferior judging by the size, in our case the size matters because in Russia they develop the best in the world movers, parry if you can and not put cons
        1. Petr1
          Petr1 5 January 2019 09: 01
          -2
          With pleasure, firstly minus is not mine, you can contact the administration. 2 all technical innovations, know-how developments will not be shown to you due to secrecy, etc. etc. can even show cartoons :)
          Will you be happy with my answer?
          1. venik
            venik 5 January 2019 12: 43
            +6
            Quote: Petr1
            in 2 all technical innovations, know-how developments will not be shown to you because of secrecy, etc. etc.

            ===========
            Dear Peter! I don't know if Igor (Ratnik-80) will be satisfied with your answer (I'm not talking about "cons"). But, I would like to "intervene in your" skirmish "- I hope you will not be offended!) ...
            Well, of course, even in "exported" systems - a lot is "secret" ... But as for the Korean system "K30 Biho" mentioned in the article, some of the "secrets" are "Polichenel's secrets".
            The thing is that this system is "classic korean product of the military-industrial complex. "That is, it is a" compilation "(by the way, it seems - very GOOD LUCK!) of several successful systems at once, namely:
            1. Modernized German SZU "Cheetah";
            2. Modernized American chassis BTR M-113;
            3. Modernized French MANPADS "Mistral"
            Do not believe? Well, rummage around in foreign sources (best of all in English-speaking ones, since you and I will not understand Korean characters!).
            PS Foreign experts compare "K30 Biho" not with "Pantsyr" (these are systems of absolutely DIFFERENT class ("Pantsyr" is much MORE POWERFUL, despite the close value of the cost), namely with "Tunguska" (!!!), where BOTH systems have their own advantages and disadvantages ...
            And by this all these "dances with songs" apparently can have 2 main tasks:
            1) - Get access to effective "Western" technologies (through Korea (under the motto "Make in India");
            2) - Knock down the price for "Pantsyr" ...
            Well, somewhere like that .....
            By the way, since this "compilation", at least in the opinion of Western experts, is very successful, and the degree (depth) of modernization - this system is quite rightly called - Korean!
        2. venik
          venik 5 January 2019 10: 56
          +2
          Quote: Warrior-80
          radar can be seen that with the shell is rather weak

          =========
          Quite right: at "Pantsyr" the surveillance radar sees 40-60 km on a Korean - up to 17 km (target with EPR - 2 sq. M). He doesn't need any more - since the interception range is 3 (three1) times less than that of the "Pantsyr"!
          -------
          Quote: Warrior-80
          weak, rocket for the first time 4 against 12 in the shell-s, and I think the range is inferior judging by the size

          ==========
          You may not even think - MUCH less! There are installed MANPADS "KP-SAM Shin-Gung" with a maximum firing range in 7 km with IR homing system.
          PS So that you are absolutely right !!! drinks
          1. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 5 January 2019 14: 30
            +1
            I correctly understood that the Indians want to have a system to combat drones? If so, then the Korean and the Carapace play in the same weight, the only advantage of the Carapace (just for this specific task!) Is a larger number of missiles in the BC. The range of work on drones in any case is up to 4-5 km.

            Of course, the Shell has the plus versatility - work on aviation, helicopters at ranges up to 20, and in the long term and more, the best radar, but, in this particular case, the Korean is approximately equal to the Shell for shooting at drones, but cheaper.
            Maybe it makes sense to offer them again Shilka in full with a hitch from the Needles?

            And then ... let the "muddy Indian genius" choose.
            laughing
            1. SETTGF
              SETTGF 6 January 2019 03: 24
              0
              Dear Vlad.by! I'll clarify a little! The radar at "Pantsir" will be better, including for detecting subtle targets with a small image intensifier (EPR - although this is a little wrong, although it stuck) - the pulse power should be higher due to the distance along the range of the affected area. Therefore, drones and birds are detected by the Shell at a farther distance and guaranteed close.
              1. Vlad.by
                Vlad.by 6 January 2019 13: 56
                0
                To combat UAVs at a distance of 5 km, the differences in the radar pulse power are not fundamental.
                1. SETTGF
                  SETTGF 6 January 2019 17: 44
                  0
                  Vlad.by! You are mistaken! Although it is necessary to increase the power by 2 times to increase the range by 16 times, the difference is 10 times already noticeable, and even more so with very small target intensifiers! Read carefully - what I wrote ...
                  1. SETTGF
                    SETTGF 6 January 2019 18: 09
                    0
                    Vlad.by! The signal-to-noise ratio is always fundamental, even when filtering and processing reflected signals in the receiving path against a background of noise interference ...
                    1. Vlad.by
                      Vlad.by 6 January 2019 21: 50
                      0
                      for 5 km? with transmitter power of hundreds of watts ??? a difference of tens of watts for detecting UAVs will not do the weather. Moreover, for purposes with a small image intensifier tube, a significant role is played not by analogue signal processing methods in the receiving path, but by digital processing algorithms.
                      1. SETTGF
                        SETTGF 6 January 2019 22: 13
                        0
                        And what digital methods do you know? And how are they present in the basic radar equation? And what, the image intensifier tube (example 2 sq. Cm) of drones is not small, for a power of tens of watts? Do not forget that the enemy is using noise interference. How it will affect your digital processing. Shell-C1 detects such a drone only from a distance of at least 3.6 km with a certain probability of detection!
                      2. SETTGF
                        SETTGF 6 January 2019 22: 28
                        0
                        Sorry! More precisely, from 3.6 km and less - the opposition!
  6. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 5 January 2019 07: 43
    +4
    Competition is ok
  7. Peresvet_54
    Peresvet_54 5 January 2019 07: 44
    +11
    Trade, however. Hindus just want to lower the price on the Shell, and nothing more (personal). I think so
  8. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 5 January 2019 07: 45
    +2
    Gypsies in their element ... "Pantsir" is a combat system, tested in real battles, and has established itself as a reliable and effective weapon. You have to be the last ..., preferring a shiny toy to him ... And since there is talk about it, with the use of "heavy weapons" in the form of mass media - the corruption component "shines through" through the smoke screen ...
    1. KCA
      KCA 5 January 2019 08: 05
      +2
      Moreover, "Pantsiri" is also being modernized based on the results of real combat use, and the Koreans will only be able to print new advertising brochures and shoot videos
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 5 January 2019 20: 48
      -1
      "tested in real battles, and has proven to be a reliable and effective weapon" ////
      ------
      ... with an efficiency of 19 percent from the experience of Syria. This figure is from Russian sources.
      1. SETTGF
        SETTGF 6 January 2019 03: 30
        +1
        voyaka uh! Do not write the assumptions and stupidities of pseudo-experts, including Leonkov; who does not know this ... This data is not for the general public. And do not write this stupid mantra from time to time, but you need to know ...
      2. SETTGF
        SETTGF 6 January 2019 22: 06
        0
        voyaka uh (Alexey)! An example of a fake conference on the Shell-C1 by the Russophobic publication livejournal and which was reprinted by many publishers ... Bullshit of not specialists who are not familiar with the Russian language!
        07.04.2012
        Rights to this material
        owned by bmpd.livejournal.com
        Material posted by copyright holder
        in open access
  9. pros000007
    pros000007 5 January 2019 08: 08
    0
    there was previously information from Syria that the "shell" does not work well on small drones, I thought it was Diza, but it seems that it does not
    1. Warrior-80
      Warrior-80 5 January 2019 08: 44
      +2
      The carapace is redundant for such purposes, at least by missiles, at the time of shli reniirinimizing with cheap ammunition, this drone with ammunition made on the knee costs 200 bucks and the rocket to the torus a few 10 tas dolars
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 5 January 2019 09: 35
        +1
        Quote: Warrior-80
        The carapace is redundant for such purposes, at least by missiles, at the time of shli reniirinimizing with cheap ammunition, this drone with ammunition made on the knee costs 200 bucks and the rocket to the torus a few 10 tas dolars

        Nobody will shoot missiles at drones for 200 bucks, for that there are cannons on the "Shells". How much, in your opinion, is the Shell's shell more expensive than the Shilka shell? request
        1. Warrior-80
          Warrior-80 5 January 2019 09: 52
          0
          Why then does everyone say that the shell on these flying window leaves is not effective request
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 5 January 2019 10: 05
            +1
            Quote: Warrior-80
            Why then does everyone say that the shell on these flying window leaves is not effective request

            And in your opinion,
            at the time of the flea, re-design with cheap ammunition

            that "Shilka" is more effective in this regard?
      2. Brturin
        Brturin 5 January 2019 12: 03
        +1
        Quote: Warrior-80
        a drone with ammunition made on a knee costs 200 bucks

        And maybe for such cases it is better to use electronic warfare (they have developed a portable complex "Pishchal", a stationary "Taran" and a mobile "Sapsan"), otherwise they have worked for such purposes, and for more serious things it may not be enough .... although about tastes no dispute - in the summer the Sumerians boasted that 24 drones were shot down with BUK (https://topwar.ru/143423-ukrainskiy-bloger-zrk-buk-m1-vooruzhennyh-sil-ukrainy-sbili-24-rossiyskih-orlana.html)
    2. venik
      venik 5 January 2019 20: 01
      -1
      Quote: pro000007
      there was previously information from Syria that the "shell" does not work well on small drones, I thought it was Diza, but it seems that it does not

      =========
      "... there was previously information from Syria that the "shell" does not work well for small drones ..."- Spit them (who told you this) in person !!!!

      Well, WHAT are you after that "pro" ?? (At least "007", at least "0000007"?) laughing
    3. SETTGF
      SETTGF 6 January 2019 03: 39
      0
      pros000007! This is desa and no more! From time to time, approved by a comrade from Israel ... This is especially evident in the fake Russophobia conference on the Shell, organized by the Russophobian livejournal and picked up by Russian media, including the news of the military-industrial complex ... It's just a fake and nothing more ... silly fabrications not specialists. It is written by persons who do not know the Russian language and many parameters of the complex.
  10. riwas
    riwas 5 January 2019 08: 12
    -1
    Probably the talk about the ineffectiveness of "Pantsir-S" against UAVs in comparison with "Thor" probably affected.
    I think that an additional lightweight and compact millimeter-wave radar would not interfere with the Pantsir-S against UAVs, UR and UAB.
    1. Mih1974
      Mih1974 5 January 2019 09: 10
      +1
      Here, rather, it is necessary to put the second cannon on the Shell into a separate control and load it with "explosive remote detonation", on anti-aircraft guns of the Second World War.
      1. Warrior-80
        Warrior-80 5 January 2019 12: 19
        +1
        I’m not a specialist, but I like your idea, the shell, as I understand it, is just a cloud of shells, if they had a cloud of fragments at a certain height, more than one drone would not miss
        1. venik
          venik 5 January 2019 20: 33
          -1
          Quote: Warrior-80
          in a shell, as I understand it, it’s just a cloud of shells, if they had a cloud of fragments at a certain height, more than one drone would not miss

          =========
          Here the question is - not so much in the guns, but in the SHELLS !!! And the 30-mm shells of remote detonation, it seems like it is! And even in Syria they have been tested ... Can they be used on the "Shells"? I think you can. It is only necessary to introduce a block providing a detonation at a given distance into the gunfire control loop .... But is it NECESSARY ??? The big question ... You yourself noted that 2 twin cannons create a "cloud" of shells that ensure target destruction, with very high probability. So why complicate system? What is the benefit? Well, perhaps only - a decrease in ammunition consumption. Is the "game worth the candle"? (And this is a rise in the cost of the entire structure!). I doubt it! I doubt it very much !!
          Here's to increase the accuracy of pointing guns "on the radar" - VERY MUCH !!! (Via an opto-electronic channel - they seem to be guided quite well ...). To improve the quality of barrels processing in order to increase accuracy, accuracy and survivability (of barrels) - this is YES !!! This is serious!!! Although they (the trunks) seem to be not bad! ...
          So that - request
          1. Mih1974
            Mih1974 6 January 2019 13: 13
            0
            This is a very difficult question. I repeatedly remind an amateur, both in military territory and in air defense, but here's what I see - air defense is divided not so much by distance, but by the targets it strikes. The best example is the complete failure of Israel's air defense when trying to shoot down an unknown UAV, when EVERYTHING "whizzed by" and even the sent fighter could not "get in" due to its high speed, and with the "shell" it is not intended for hunting slow and often small UAVs. Here you need to understand the most important thing - what is put in the claim "does not distinguish the UAV from the birds" is actually a dignity, because forget about the UAV and imagine what the work of the "shell" turns into with a large number of birds? The answer is obvious - the operator will check, moreover, now I suspect that in general there is no automatic systems capable of distinguishing between birds and slow UAVs, especially considering that now almost all UAVs are not metal and are very close to biological objects by radar illumination.
            Okay, let's return to the "shell", his task (initial) is to wet the metal objects of the attack at close range, for which he was given the guns, this is where the "cloud of shells" is important because there is often no time "to miss". But UAVs are often not objects requiring such a wasteful and "quick" solution, which is why some kind of mechanism for "switching" to firing single, shrapnel shells gains an opinion.
            After all, we must remember that UAVs, especially small ones, are not expensive and complex missiles and bombs that the "shell" should crush, this trifle can simply "crush" the quantity. That is, launching a dozen or so less cheap uavs can simply lead to the expenditure of the "shell" ammunition and the surviving at least one uav will simply destroy it, but when "explosive" shells are used, the "shell" becomes essentially impenetrable for small uavs. good
            But if we remove the usual shells from the "penzir" and replace them with "explosive" shells, then we will lose just the ability to destroy what it was originally created for, then the "shell" will lose the ability to destroy large missiles and even more bombs, there simply will not be enough power of the destructive effect of the ammunition ...
      2. riwas
        riwas 6 January 2019 08: 17
        -1
        Do not start the second cannon, but remove the 30-mm cannon, and instead of them - the 57-mm cannon with shrapnel shells with remote detonation. This is where a millimeter-wave radar would come in handy, as it can detect and distinguish small objects, including stealth.
        Since helicopters and airplanes in modern combat have to be destroyed at a "rocket" distance, then, as a last resort, instead of 30-mm cannons, you can put quad 12,7-mm machine guns according to the Gatling scheme. Their fire density on UAVs, UR and UAB will be significantly higher.
        1. Mih1974
          Mih1974 6 January 2019 13: 18
          -1
          Will not then lose the "shell" to destroy missiles and bombs? I do not deny the lethality of the 57 mm projectile shrapnel, but this is much lower than that of a direct hit of a 30 mm projectile, and given that the distance for firing from cannons and machine guns is already extremely small, taking into account the flight speed of the enemy projectile and even if the shrapnel will "slightly" damage the missiles or a bomb, then it may simply not have time to prevent him (the projectile) from covering the remaining distance to the target and let the already damaged destroy it !! fool
  11. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 5 January 2019 08: 19
    +6
    The Republic of Korea sent a letter to New Delhi calling on India to “finalize the contract.”
    What fast, with Indians such tricks do not pass stop )))
    And our bit thoughtless ... it was necessary to tie the Shell to the S-400 purchased by India. Because we have them in this kit and are supplied to our own army. Here and the Indians had to sell a package of anti-aircraft guns.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 5 January 2019 09: 00
      -1
      The shell and c400 have different manufacturers, they can’t agree with each other, and here are the Indians.
      As for the subject - they between the long-range SAM and the sighted chose the sighted, which is logical. Let our shell first at first, and then offended
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 5 January 2019 09: 46
        +1
        Quote: Tlauicol
        The shell and c400 have different manufacturers, they can’t agree with each other, and here are the Indians.

        Interaction with the Shell /// Tor /// through the battery KP and even on a separate machine is specially laid in the S-400 controls. Another thing is that joint firing in Ashuluk only began this year. But they shot well, so it’s not so dark .
      2. dvina71
        dvina71 5 January 2019 09: 54
        +1
        Quote: Tlauicol
        they between the long-range air defense system and the sighted chose the sighted

        And where did the Korean device show its sight?
      3. Wildcat
        Wildcat 5 January 2019 17: 28
        +1
        I saw several versions of the problem.
        1. Questions to rockets (guidance and energy), SLA, chassis (including cross-country ability and center of gravity) and to the gun (shells).
        2. Reluctance to work with one supplier, which takes the bulk in one area (air defense).
        3. Commercially more attractive conditions (for reverse investment, service, localization and technology transfer).
        4. Questions to the supplier on the implementation of previous contracts.
        5. The usual Indian bureaucracy is not the most effective and the desire to bargain and "take into account the interests of all parties."
        6. Last, but not least, the Syrian air defense history of recent years in general and the video of the Shell in particular.
        Which of these is correct - I do not know. hi
      4. venik
        venik 5 January 2019 20: 40
        0
        Quote: Tlauicol
        The shell and c400 have different manufacturers, they can’t agree with each other, and here are the Indians.

        =========
        Well, Duc is sold NOT by manufacturers, but by Rosoboronexport !!! And here, excuse me for a fig - producers "doggy", or "kiss passionately"! And the IDEA is good! Even - not just good EXCELLENT!!! Selling is not just a "complex" but COMPLEX!!! Long-range air defense, in "complete"with self-defense systems !!!! good good drinks
      5. SETTGF
        SETTGF 6 January 2019 03: 56
        0
        Dear Tlauikol!
        Quote: Tlauicol
        As for the subject - they between the long-range SAM and the sighted chose the sighted, which is logical. Let our shell first at first, and then offended

        These are just your assumptions based on someone else's fake ... carefully watch who writes such fakes and who initially throws them into the Internet field! Sorry if something is wrong, because everyone has their own opinion.
  12. Graz
    Graz 5 January 2019 08: 38
    +1
    Yes, let them take it from Korea, Indians need to be taught, if they refused, then the next time they themselves ask for Armor, the cost increases by 10%
  13. SS-18 Satan
    SS-18 Satan 5 January 2019 08: 43
    +4
    Bollywood ... part 2 !! those are still traders.
  14. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 5 January 2019 08: 48
    +1
    The Korean media can write a lot of things, but it is not known how things really are in the details.
    The Republic of Korea sent a letter to New Delhi calling on India to “finalize the contract.”
    Something too suspiciously fussing.
  15. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 5 January 2019 08: 50
    +1
    That's what the stuffing was about Shells and how they don't shoot down UAVs
  16. K-50
    K-50 5 January 2019 09: 19
    +1
    India is ready to make a choice in favor of the Korean air defense systems, preferring the Korean K-30 batches of Russian "Armor".

    This is nonsense to me. They so provoke ours before the auction for the "Shell".
    I don't even see any point in comparing the firing performance of our cannons on "shells" and the Korean ones.
    Moreover, the "Shells" have been "tested" in Syria, in repelling a variety of threats, and have shown very good results. Korean fought nowhere, what can they show, who knows? Maybe nothing but a fig.
    So with such a "makar" the Indians just want to move ours in price.
    1. loginovich
      loginovich 5 January 2019 09: 44
      -2
      Quote: K-50
      India is ready to make a choice in favor of the Korean air defense systems, preferring the Korean K-30 batches of Russian "Armor".

      This is nonsense to me. They so provoke ours before the auction for the "Shell".
      I don't even see any point in comparing the firing performance of our cannons on "shells" and the Korean ones.
      Moreover, the "Armor" was "tested" in Syria, in repelling a variety of threats, and showed very good results. The Korean have not fought anywhere, what can they show, who knows? Maybe besides the fig and nothing
      So with such a "makar" the Indians just want to move ours in price.
      From a place about results in more detail please. And then the Jews both bombed Syria and bomb
      1. K-50
        K-50 5 January 2019 10: 46
        +4
        Quote: loginovich
        From a place about results in more detail please. And then the Jews both bombed Syria and bomb

        And what about the "work" of "Armor" is there a claim? Have they missed some near goal? So far, we seem to have coped with it, but for you, probably they are playing pears from heaven there?
  17. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 5 January 2019 09: 21
    +1
    Hindus, like Ukrainians, from poverty from a mosquito drown fat.
  18. Berkut24
    Berkut24 5 January 2019 09: 58
    +2
    Yes, Russia deeply in half, these tricks of the Indians and the children's joy of the Koreans. I have a suspicion that the Indians again played a show in order to bargain. We are used to it and are unlikely to express any discontent.
  19. lucul
    lucul 5 January 2019 10: 30
    +1
    The same publication claims that the Indian military "was impressed by the capabilities of the Korean air defense system," which can move at speeds up to 60 km / h and carry out 1200 rounds per minute of anti-aircraft guns

    This is probably all that can impress Korean ZRS))
  20. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 5 January 2019 11: 05
    0
    In my opinion, the Indians just bargain with us until the carrots for the plot.
    Our side needs to study closely the mentality of the Sikhs, who occupy up to 80% of all military posts in them.
  21. nesvobodnye
    nesvobodnye 5 January 2019 11: 07
    +1
    Do Korean K-30s have extensive combat experience with respect to Shell? How did you prove yourself?)
  22. Azazelo
    Azazelo 5 January 2019 11: 11
    -1
    Well good luck ...
  23. mehan
    mehan 5 January 2019 11: 15
    -1
    The buyer is always right. He probably remembers the epic with flightless MiGaras, because of which he was forced to buy Rafali ....
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 5 January 2019 11: 53
      +3
      Yeah, and Rafali is now plowing the Indian sky without ceasing.
  24. senima56
    senima56 5 January 2019 11: 23
    +1
    Hindus are far from being "little children"! Where there! Hindus are hucksters and brainwaves! They bargain so much and "compost brains" that you are ready to give away and even pay extra for nothing! Believe me!
  25. APASUS
    APASUS 5 January 2019 11: 30
    +1
    The Hindus are noble intriguers, they are not accustomed to conspiring. But I was always interested in such a small detail. How are they going to conduct military operations (if necessary) with such a motley equipment? To do this, the best logistics in the world must be created, and judging by the fact that the Indians have a lot of problems (almost everywhere), then logistics can not be the best in the world!
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 5 January 2019 11: 51
      +1
      From this we can conclude that the Indians do not count on prolonged hostilities.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 5 January 2019 20: 54
        0
        Quote: Strashila

        From this we can conclude that the Indians do not count on prolonged hostilities

        You made such a controversial conclusion
  26. Strashila
    Strashila 5 January 2019 11: 49
    +3
    Once the Indians refuse, you can safely offer them to Pakistan, Patsir and Tunguska. Our business is to offer, their business is to refuse.
  27. HMR333
    HMR333 5 January 2019 12: 53
    +1
    Dreams))) themselves came up with or who suggested?
  28. sir_obs
    sir_obs 5 January 2019 12: 58
    +1
    which can move at speeds up to 60 km / h and carry out 1200 rounds per minute of anti-aircraft guns.


    But it is necessary not only to shoot, but also to hit. The question is, what is the percentage of hits with such a trip? Or just at weddings in the air to shoot
  29. bratchanin3
    bratchanin3 5 January 2019 13: 34
    +2
    The Indian leadership is extremely rational in choosing weapons. If you choose Korean weapons, then it is most suitable for price and effectiveness. Before choosing our T-90 tanks, they drove them for a month in the desert sands.
  30. Login_Off
    Login_Off 5 January 2019 14: 05
    +2
    So they would take Tunguska!
  31. Hypersound
    Hypersound 5 January 2019 14: 17
    +1
    Fools, take the TORA. There is nothing better than them in the world (except for long-range complexes, of course)
  32. san4es
    san4es 5 January 2019 14: 19
    +2
    The first prototype appeared in 1988 and was immediately sent for comparative tests, which showed fairly good results. Preparations for mass production began in 2002, and the first production model was put into service with the South Korean Army in 2007.
    The rate of fire of the gun is 600 rds / min, while for each barrel ready-to-shoot cartridges with 250 shots are provided. The effective firing range is 3 m. The turret’s turning speed is 000 deg / s, the drive is electric (auxiliary - manual. The elevation angles of the gun are + 90 ° / -85 °. The combat weight of the ZSU is 10 tons, length 25 m, height on the roof of the hull 6,67 m when the radar is raised - 1,885 m,
    Specifications:
    Effective range, km 0.5-10
    Defeat height, km 0.02-6.0
    Rate of fire (rounds / min) 600
    Caliber main gun (mm) 30
    Auxiliary machine gun caliber (mm) 7,62
    Range of movement (km) 500
    wade depth (mm) 1200
    Side slope (%) 30
    Gradient (%) 60
    Max. speed (km / h) 60
    Crew 4
    Weight (kg) 25000 .... hi
  33. ALEx NIXon
    ALEx NIXon 5 January 2019 14: 49
    +1
    Hindus, as always in their repertoire)))
  34. TOR2
    TOR2 5 January 2019 15: 19
    +1
    The South Korean press stated that the Russian Ministry of Defense expressed “dissatisfaction” with India’s readiness to purchase K-30 Biho self-propelled air defense systems from the Republic of Korea.
    And where did they get such information. Apparently the Korean magpie on the tail brought.
  35. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 5 January 2019 15: 40
    0
    Quote: bulvas
    Maybe the wrong people are doing it?

    That's right, people of the level of Liza Peskova, who do not understand the difference between "shipbuilding" and "legal proceedings".
  36. Stalevar79
    Stalevar79 5 January 2019 16: 27
    0
    India is ready to prefer Korean K-30 Biho to Russian "Shells"


    Probably after the cinematic destruction of the "pantsiyar" in Syria by Israel. Eh, the Arabs made us anti-advertising ...
  37. Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 5 January 2019 16: 49
    0
    The same publication claims that the Indian military was “impressed with the capabilities of the Korean air defense system,” which can travel at speeds of up to 60 km / h and carry 1200 rounds per minute of anti-aircraft guns. In India, they consider such an option as an effective tool in the fight against drones.

    Perhaps they are right, because in terms of rate of fire, we concede to them ...
    - Two twin automatic guns 2A38M caliber 30mm. The type of ammunition used is armor-piercing incendiary shells. Guns are designed to destroy air targets at an altitude of up to 3 kilometers and a distance of up to 4 kilometers. Shells have an initial velocity of 960 m / s. The rate of guns 5 thousand high / min., in the early variant 2A72, the rate of fire did not exceed 700 h / min.

    https://topwar.ru/17841-zenitnyy-pushechno-raketnyy-kompleks-blizhnego-deystviya-pancir-s1-96k6.html
  38. Avior
    Avior 5 January 2019 16: 52
    0
    looks quite compact
  39. Zomanus
    Zomanus 6 January 2019 06: 13
    0
    Yes these smoked go stump. What are they, dofiga with whom are they fighting?
    And as he presses, one FIG will run to us if they are not late.
  40. wooja
    wooja 6 January 2019 17: 05
    0
    some of the worst buyers are Indians, bargain masterfully .... it's in their blood