Military Review

The Chinese apparatus "Chang'e-4" will land on the far side of the moon

223
On Sunday morning, the Chinese spacecraft Chang'e-4 went into a predetermined orbit, from which it would then land on the opposite side of the moon, reports TASS message of the national space agency of the country (CNSA).

Launch of the carrier with the device Chang'e-4 from the Sichan space center.

According to the agency, in 03: 55 Moscow time the probe Chang'e-4 successfully entered an elliptical lunar orbit, the nearest point to the surface of the moon is 15km, and the most distant is 100 km.

From Earth's orbit to the lunar apparatus 12 passed December. Since that time, the control center staff has twice carried out work to balance its orbit, and also checked the reliability of the connection between Chang'-4 and Quiqiao repeater satellite. It is used to connect the device with the Earth. In addition, work was carried out on checking the onboard probe equipment, including range finders, in order to prepare it for landing.

Currently, the Center is busy choosing the right time to land on the reverse side of the moon.

Recall, "Chang'e-4" was launched on December 8. The main objective of the program is to study with the help of a lunar rover the least studied reverse side of a natural satellite of the Earth.

The device will land in the South Pole area in the basin of Aitken - the largest of the impact craters in the solar system. The diameter of the crater is about 2,5 thousand. Km, depth - 12 km.

As previously stated in CNSA, the first soft landing on the far side of the moon will be a real breakthrough for both China and the whole world.

Communication satellite "Queqiao" - the first in stories the apparatus, which began work on a halo-orbit at Lagrange point L2 on the far side of the moon. In this location, he is able to maintain a position with respect to the Earth and the Sun for a long time, providing communication with Chang'e-4.
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org
223 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. kjhg
      kjhg 30 December 2018 11: 13
      +5
      Meehan, can you read? It is written in Russian that no one else has landed there.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. kjhg
          kjhg 30 December 2018 11: 25
          +2
          Quote: Broken
          Your evidence ..?

          Meehan, do you even believe that the Earth is round or bring evidence too?
          1. hrych
            hrych 30 December 2018 21: 11
            -4
            Quote: kjhg
            Meehan, do you even believe that the Earth is round or bring evidence too?

            Do not judge the PRC by its facades, this is the most disgusting state and most of the Chinese people really think that the earth is flat
        2. donavi49
          donavi49 30 December 2018 11: 52
          +19
          The difference is huge. Apollo and automatic stations sat on interesting - but still quite ordinary places. Where it was easier and less likely to break the mission.

          The Chinese land in Aitken Crater - the largest and deepest place on the moon. Where, according to various orbital missions (Clementine, Lunar), there is a different soil, and there are exits to the oldest rock, inner crust and ancient mantle. This is a truly unique place. From which I really want to get samples or even conduct local research.

          This mission is more test, in the form of landing in such a difficult area. It is not known how interesting they were able to load into the scientific unit of the landing module. Rover himself is not very smart and equipped. Again - if they can sit down, and basic research will provide interesting clues, then a fully-fledged station with a drilling station and a return capsule will fly.
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 30 December 2018 12: 16
            -13
            donavi49, hear. rover, the amer herself claimed that the lunatics drove them from the moon, drina !!!! Boom to argue?
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 30 December 2018 12: 52
            +10
            Yes. The landing they have to be difficult and interesting. good
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 30 December 2018 13: 51
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Yes. The landing they have to be difficult and interesting.

              Your country is actively cooperating with China, maybe your contribution there is part of the programs.
              P.S. Rogozin, let him speak on the topic of the development of the moon, ...... horseradish,
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 30 December 2018 22: 54
                -2
                Quote: Thunderbolt
                P.S. Rogozin, let him speak on the topic of the development of the moon, ...... horseradish,

                There are laws of macroeconomics, Rogozin’s guilt is not here.
            2. kasatky
              kasatky 30 December 2018 20: 01
              +3
              Quote: voyaka uh
              The landing they have to be difficult and interesting.

              I wish the Chinese success!
              This is the interest of the entire scientific world.
              1. Maki Avellevich
                Maki Avellevich 30 December 2018 22: 03
                -1
                Quote: kasatky
                Quote: voyaka uh
                The landing they have to be difficult and interesting.

                I wish the Chinese success!
                This is the interest of the entire scientific world.

                Not only scientific, it is a process of our kind. And he is the essence of our existence.
          3. srha
            srha 30 December 2018 17: 54
            0
            Thank. Not a media approach is more interesting than the article itself.

            Although, "kaneshna" is not as amusing as the subsequent comments from the race carriers.
        3. gsev
          gsev 30 December 2018 23: 39
          0
          Quote: Broken
          Your evidence ..? The Russians were the first on the moon. !

          The first descent vehicles of S. Korolev reached the surface of the moon with burned electrical equipment. A workable apparatus from the USSR that was able to reach the moon was created at the NPO named after Lavochkina. It seems that the head of this mission was able to get a diploma of graduation only after several successful launches of his rockets into space. If their lunar mission is successful, the Chinese can safely claim that now they are the only power that conducts lunar exploration and owns a full cycle of technology for this research. A half-century break in flights to the moon and the USA and the USSR practically nullified their old achievements.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 31 December 2018 13: 22
            0
            Quote: gsev
            A half-century break in flights to the moon and the USA and the USSR practically nullified their old achievements.

            That is, the Chinese are doing what the Russians and Americans did half a century ago! Are you sure this is an achievement? They are some (Chinese) brakes.
            Quote: gsev
            If their lunar mission is successful, the Chinese can safely claim that now they are the only power that conducts lunar exploration and owns a full cycle of technology for this research.

            It is a dubious glory to do what others did half a century ago.
      2. snake
        snake 30 December 2018 11: 24
        +1
        Quote: kjhg
        Meehan, can you read?

        So this is Meehan? Ahah! With each "reincarnation" his nicknames are more and more fun.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. snake
            snake 30 December 2018 11: 39
            -1
            Quote: Broken
            But your Sergey is a strange nickname ..

            Well, what it is ... What is rich ...
            Quote: Broken
            Although it's not about nicknames, but in thoughts!

            There is no arguing.
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 30 December 2018 12: 19
              -14
              Do not argue. Better to just shut up. Ondestan?
              1. snake
                snake 30 December 2018 12: 37
                +14
                Quote: sabakina
                Better to just shut up. Ondestan?

                Nicht Fershtein. By what right do you shut me up? By the law of the Prosecutor of the Order or what? Will you put a minus all my pack? Shear Marshals.
                1. Consultant
                  Consultant 30 December 2018 12: 42
                  -14
                  Quote: serpent
                  Nicht Fershtein

                  I’ll explain for those who are dull: don’t touch MIKHAN, he’s harmless, and he can’t answer.

                  But Glory - maybe. And I can too.

                  Now an understand?
                  1. snake
                    snake 30 December 2018 12: 50
                    +9
                    Quote: Consultant
                    I’ll explain for those who are dull: don’t touch MIKHAN, he’s harmless, and he can’t answer.

                    Did I write something offensive about Mikhan?
                    Quote: Consultant
                    But Glory - maybe. And I can too.

                    Glory can, I have no doubt. He has many accomplices - the righteous minusers-inquisitors.
                    But you ... What can you do besides fat trolling? Although, if you also have a "position" at the "Master", then you are a serious opponent.
                    1. Consultant
                      Consultant 30 December 2018 12: 53
                      -16
                      Quote: serpent
                      What can you do besides fat trolling?

                      laughing good laughing

                      Amused, snake ...

                      Okay ... live for now. I can do a lot, but for now I won’t. Work, on New Year's Eve, it will happen in my IT department ... VAT belay

                      Getting ready here request
                      1. snake
                        snake 30 December 2018 13: 12
                        0
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Okay ... live for now.

                        Before the New Year, at least let me live, Romakh?
                        Quote: Consultant
                        I can do a lot, but for now I won’t.

                        And you can, for example, yourself ... but, okay, such questions aren’t for the New Year ...
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Getting ready here

                        God is to help.
                      2. Consultant
                        Consultant 30 December 2018 13: 24
                        -2
                        Quote: serpent
                        Before the New Year, at least let me live, Romah?

                        I don’t know how Romakh is (who is she? Why I don’t know? (C) laughing ), and I until the new Year I’ll definitely live - all the fun will begin when the chimes ring back. 15 years before me something was kneaded there, and this was mixed ... brrr fool

                        Quote: serpent
                        God to help

                        I'm an atheist.

                        We will achieve, um ... liberation ... (tax, probably?)
                        With your own hand! (with)

                        Yes, and come on "on you", so that people do not embarrass, hop? wink
                      3. snake
                        snake 30 December 2018 13: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Don't know how Romach

                        A typo is visible.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        I'm an atheist.

                        There are no atheists on New Year's Eve at work.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Yes, and come on "on you", so that people do not embarrass, hop?

                        That is, when we switch from "you" to "you" and back, will you decide?
                      4. Consultant
                        Consultant 30 December 2018 13: 33
                        -3
                        Quote: serpent
                        There are no atheists on New Year's Eve at work

                        It’s easy. I have - there are already three: me, the Susadmin and TradeX special laughing
                        True, everything is at a distance, that is, we can’t drink together.

                        Quote: serpent
                        will you decide

                        My business is to offer, yours is politely refuse.

                        I, in fact, on the drum, how to refer to a viper calling himself laughing
                      5. snake
                        snake 30 December 2018 13: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: Consultant
                        My job is to offer. Your - politely refuse.

                        Politely? What about Lex Talionis? If I’m rude, then I don’t intend to shatter.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        I, in fact, on the drum, how to refer to a viper calling himself

                        You can’t talk at all. It’s you who constantly jump out suddenly out of nowhere and start to flood. And not only with me, with other participants the same.
                      6. Consultant
                        Consultant 30 December 2018 13: 44
                        -3
                        Quote: serpent
                        you constantly jump out of nowhere and start to flood

                        Do not like when against wool? And you have to ... either fall in love or get used to it ... snake.

                        Quote: serpent
                        not only with me, with other participants

                        Speak for yourself, for others "others" will speak for themselves, if they want ...

                        Quote: serpent
                        same

                        * also.

                        Sha. I signed up to work, sort of hi
                      7. snake
                        snake 30 December 2018 13: 52
                        +1
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Do not like when against wool?

                        Snakes have no hair. Learn the materiel.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Speak for yourself, others will say if they want ...

                        Others have already called you a troll, and you know about it.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        * also.

                        Corrected.
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Sha. I signed up to work, sort of

                        Good luck. May Putin be with you!
                      8. Consultant
                        Consultant 30 December 2018 14: 03
                        -1
                        Quote: serpent
                        Snakes have no wool

                        This is for those who are born of a snake. Self-titled happens ALL laughing

                        Quote: serpent
                        May Putin be with you

                        What for, he surrendered to me, at home, in the kitchen ... not, let him talk on TV ... which I have not had for about five years.

                        Okay. Do not distract. I'm busy stop

                        PS:
                        Quote: serpent
                        Others have already called you a troll

                        You missed the word, right - like this:

                        Quote: serpent
                        Others trolls you have already been called a troll

                        Let's go to the studio, "other"- I'll grind with them with pleasure ... in my free time laughing
                      9. snake
                        snake 30 December 2018 14: 31
                        -1
                        Quote: Consultant
                        Give them to the studio, "others" - I'll grind them with pleasure ... in your free time

                        Why should people affected by communication with you again be drawn into the abyss of verbiage? Let them celebrate and have fun.
                      10. Consultant
                        Consultant 30 December 2018 14: 34
                        -3
                        Quote: serpent
                        Why should people affected by communication with you again be drawn into the abyss of verbiage?

                        What a caring you are, I look ... white, and fluffy.

                        And what kind of snake are you after that? You chicken request

                        PS: Tobacco ... this is for "no wool" laughing

                        Damn it, get lost ... distracting. It’s harmful for me to laugh so much, I’ll get fat ...

                        Quote: N. Nosov Dunno on the Moon
                        Five minutes of laughter replace a glass of sour cream
                      11. snake
                        snake 1 January 2019 13: 07
                        -1
                        Quote: Consultant
                        And what kind of snake are you after that? You chicken

                        Serpent is not just a snake. This is a much more capacious word ...
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 30 December 2018 12: 15
          +2
          Quote: serpent
          So this is Meehan? Ahah! With each "reincarnation" his nicknames are more and more fun.

          After another reincarnation, he became Mikhan, So his mother called him Vitalik.
          1. snake
            snake 30 December 2018 12: 20
            0
            Quote: Piramidon
            After another reincarnation, he became Mikhan, So his mother called him Vitalik.

            Yes, but it seems to me that he became the guardian spirit of VO in Mikhan’s avatar.
      3. sabakina
        sabakina 30 December 2018 12: 11
        -10
        Guntyua, can you laugh? ...
        1. kjhg
          kjhg 30 December 2018 12: 15
          +3
          Vyacheslav, of course, it would be possible, it would even have been necessary if our cosmonautics had not been in the state in which it is today. This condition is called a coma in medicine.
    2. den3080
      den3080 30 December 2018 11: 47
      0
      Well, that's all request
      The leadership of Russia and the USA in space has ended.
      1. Black sniper
        Black sniper 30 December 2018 12: 25
        -4
        Well, why is it over? There are Americans still flying on our engines, and the Chinese, so there 70% copy-paste of the USSR / Russia. hi
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 30 December 2018 13: 18
          +9
          Delta-4, Falcon-9, Falcon-Heavy, Delta-Heavy, Taurus, Pegasus, Minotaur. American-made launch vehicles on American engines
        2. Simargl
          Simargl 30 December 2018 18: 18
          +1
          Quote: Black Sniper
          The Americans are still flying on our engines,
          What are you saying!
          1. They have a hydrogen engine. And we have?
          2. They have a reusable engine. And we have?
          3. They have a solid fuel accelerator. And we have?
          4. They have missions on the moon (orbital), Martian. And we have?
          5. They finish off a manned ship, even two. And we have?
          You can go on for a long time.
          Will we catch up with the Chinese soon?
          Although no! we already lagging behind.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 30 December 2018 22: 59
            -5
            Quote: Simargl
            1. They have a hydrogen engine. And we have?

            However, it is the Americans in Russia who buy rocket engines, and not vice versa.
            Quote: Simargl
            2. They have a reusable engine. And we have?

            The system is not debugged, it’s too early to say that they have it.
            Quote: Simargl
            3. They have a solid fuel accelerator. And we have?

            This is not an achievement at all, but very much the other way around.
            Quote: Simargl
            4. They have missions on the moon (orbital), Martian. And we have?

            We have manned space exploration, and they?
            Quote: Simargl
            5. They finish off a manned ship, even two. And we have?

            And we already have it - count yes! And they are not a fact that they will finish.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 31 December 2018 22: 36
              -1
              Quote: Setrac
              However, it is the Americans in Russia who buy rocket engines, and not vice versa.
              3 pcs per year from 30 launches? It’s straight without us.
              However, in terms of price / quality, Merlins are better.
              Quote: Setrac
              The system is not debugged, it’s too early to say that they have it.
              What is wrong there? Reuse regularly, although not without loss.
              Quote: Setrac
              This is not an achievement at all, but very much the other way around.
              Well, how not an achievement? The ability to use an engine of almost any power is not an achievement?
              Quote: Setrac
              We have manned space exploration, and they?
              This is not the first pause, therefore it is not critical.
              Quote: Setrac
              And we already have it - count yes! And they are not a fact that they will finish.
              You think it's worth worrying?
              Here is for our manned, because The union had to be changed 30 years ago. Even for flights to the MIR / ISS.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 1 January 2019 00: 50
                +1
                Quote: Simargl
                This is not the first pause, therefore it is not critical.

                Who would have doubted if the amers - "not critical", if we - "stagnation and degradation." Whose are you my friend or bear?
                Quote: Simargl
                Well, how not an achievement? The ability to use an engine of almost any power is not an achievement?

                Solid-fuel engines compared to liquid-fuel engines are a HUGE leap back in development, no matter how pingos are puffed up.
                Quote: Simargl
                3 pcs per year from 30 launches? It’s straight without us.

                10% of the number of launches and 40% of the mass of the cargo put into orbit - indeed without us without any sarcasm.
                Quote: Simargl
                What is wrong there? Reuse regularly, although not without loss.

                This is just a lie, so far there is no regular use of this rocket.
                Quote: Simargl
                You think it's worth worrying?

                Given that the Americans do not yet have a spaceship in principle - and really, why bother?
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl 1 January 2019 09: 43
                  -1
                  Quote: Setrac
                  Yes, who would doubt
                  What is the US manned program option? 4th?
                  And we have? Even the Chinese, copying, made the KK more spacious, and we should have done it 30 years ago. Not to mention bringing to the standard KK type Spiral.
                  The Federation is not bad in concept (more universal), but it is being sawed and sawed (I'm talking about cuts and deferrals, if that).
                  Quote: Setrac
                  Solid-fuel engines compared to liquid-fuel engines are a HUGE leap back in development, no matter how pingos are puffed up.
                  MTKK - accelerators. Rechargeable and completely reliable. No worse than Proton. Just take into account the decrease in reliability and not launch manned on them. Or not the second or third time.
                  Yes, they are simple in design like an ax, but what's wrong with them?
                  Quote: Setrac
                  10% of the number of launches and 40% of the mass of the cargo put into orbit - indeed without us without any sarcasm.
                  5 out of 30. Rather 17%. For displayed cargo - less than 30%, if you count the minimum for US launch vehicles and the maximum for Atlas-5. And most likely - the same 15-17%. So this is critical only for the Atlas-5 operator, and not for the country.
                  Quote: Setrac
                  This is just a lie, so far there is no regular use of this rocket.
                  64 launches F-9. Is this not regular ?! How much do you need? 100?! 200 ?!
                  Quote: Setrac
                  Given that the Americans do not yet have a spaceship in principle - and really, why bother?
                  At the moment, you do not have to worry about ESA, but sworn friends will soon remove this "for now" and our programs will again disperse. Good or bad, I have no idea.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 1 January 2019 15: 04
                    0
                    Quote: Simargl
                    At the moment, you do not have to worry about ESA, but sworn friends will soon remove this "for now" and our programs will again disperse.

                    This is your speculation, at the moment it is "for now" more alive than all living things.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    For withdrawn cargo - less than 30%

                    30% or 40% - but what's the difference, too lazy to clarify, the percentage is high - Americans are losers in space.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    What is the US manned program option? 4th?

                    Yes, even the millionth - at the moment - no.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Yes, they are simple in design like an ax, but what's wrong with them?

                    A steam engine is simpler than a turbine - this is not an advantage - if there are no other advantages. TTX solid propellant rockets are much inferior to liquid rockets.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    The Federation is not bad in concept (more universal), but it is being sawed and sawed (I'm talking about cuts and deferrals, if that).

                    Russia has a "Union" and therefore it is possible to cut the "Federation" without haste, the United States has nothing at the moment. That's all the math. When our Federation finishes it, then the Americans will steal and copy from us, and then the Chinese. Light elves nifiga cannot live without orc starships.
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl 1 January 2019 16: 27
                      -1
                      Quote: Setrac
                      This is your speculation, at the moment it is "for now" more alive than all living things.
                      In January this "while" will be near death, in 2020 it will die. We won't count the Starliner - it's under Atlas-5 imprisoned while laughing
                      Quote: Setrac
                      30% or 40% - but what's the difference, too lazy to clarify, the percentage is high - Americans are losers in space.
                      According to my estimates, not more than 30%, but rather 15-17%, and up to 20% is weakly significant. That will complete Starliner - it will be 100% wink
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Yes, even the millionth - at the moment - no.
                      You're not right! If it weren’t, it would mean that you need to start from scratch, and so - there are achievements.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      A steam engine is simpler than a turbine - this is not an advantage - if there are no other advantages.
                      Uh ... m ... m ... a steam engine and a turbine are not antagonists: a turbine can be steam. The maximum performance steam engine is no simpler than a turbine (like an internal combustion engine) ..
                      Quote: Setrac
                      TTX solid propellant rockets are much inferior to liquid rockets.
                      The specific impulse of the MTKK SSH Lateral Accelerator is 269 s, mass 590 t, thrust 1300 t, i.e. within 120s it presses with an energy structure of more than 2,2.
                      The same Atlas-5 has on board the RD-180, with a thrust of 390, the first stage weighs 305 tons, i.e. thrust ratio less than 1,3.
                      Something is not sure that the RD-180 here shows outstanding parameters.
                      TTU has a very high thrust-to-weight ratio, but there are drawbacks - they cannot be turned off.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Russia has a "Union" and therefore you can cut the "Federation" without haste
                      Eh ... The Union does not allow continued expansion. I have already repeated several times that it had to be changed 30 years ago! Federation is needed today.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      at the USA at the moment there is nothing. That's all the math.
                      They have a fairly successful program! And they will finish it, because there is a desire, opportunities and experience.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      The light elves of nifig cannot live without orc starships.
                      And which of the three of us is bright? N-1 did not take off. Saturn-5 only in sick fantasies ceased to exist. With the filing of an engaged woodpecker (chased for non-professional suitability) - scribblers of technical texts.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 1 January 2019 19: 55
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        In January this "while" will be near death, in 2020 it will die.

                        Dreams - dreams, pipe dreams.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        According to my estimates, not more than 30%, but rather 15-17%, and up to 20% is weakly significant.

                        Even 15% is a lot of fucking.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        You're not right! If it weren’t, it would mean that you need to start from scratch, and so - there are achievements.

                        There is progress, but no spaceship. But don’t worry, in Hollywood the Americans will draw a great spaceship for themselves - they can.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        The union does not allow continued expansion. I have already repeated several times that it had to be changed 30 years ago!

                        Maybe it needs to be changed. But so far this is the best that is in our world in this matter.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        They have a fairly successful program! And they will finish it, because there is a desire, opportunities and experience.

                        And then we’ll praise how they’ll finish it.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        And which of the three of us is bright? N-1 did not take off. Saturn-5 only in sick fantasies ceased to exist.

                        Yeah, in sick Hollywood fantasies. Much has been written about Saturn and much explained to the dull. Just a hoax. Flight to the moon is now impossible, and then - all the more it was not possible.
                      2. Simargl
                        Simargl 1 January 2019 20: 33
                        -1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Dreams - dreams, pipe dreams.
                        Wait a month left. We will see.
                        Only my dreams are not for you, but for my country to surpass the competition.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Even 15% is a lot of fucking.
                        About 1/7. It is sensitive, but not much. And they can completely replace launches. Delta, for example. More expensive, but if necessary - will be replaced.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        But don’t worry, in Hollywood the Americans will draw a great spaceship for themselves - they can.
                        Of course they can! There, the paint is over - the Shuttles stopped painting. Dragons drawn, rover, etc.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        But so far this is the best that is in our world in this matter.
                        I'm not sure because of the Chinese, who will have a "copy" more comfortable. And taking into account those developed by partners, it is criminal to lag behind in the competitive sphere: we will not catch up.
                        But this is not only in the manned program. And not just manned. I'm talking about colonization.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        And then we’ll praise how they’ll finish it.
                        What kind of nonsense? I’m saying that ignoring the work of a competitor and bragging about it is criminal!
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Much has been written about Saturn and much explained to the dull. Just a hoax. Flight to the moon is now impossible, and then - all the more it was not possible.
                        And for what reason flight is not possible? Do not break the firmament of heaven? Much has been written about Saturn, but the conspirators are counting on those who will not check.
                        So much dough, how much in those flights they swelled to swell - everything will be possible. But just repeating the mission is stupid.
                      3. Setrac
                        Setrac 1 January 2019 21: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Only my dreams are not for you, but for my country to surpass the competition.

                        Our country is already superior to competitors, but not in quantitative terms. Such military-political entities as the North Atlantic bloc and China surpass Russia ten times in population and industrial potential. In terms of quantitative indicators, we will always be behind. It is necessary to build rockets with nuclear engines, to develop manned astronautics, to build permanent settlements on other planets and satellites - this is a qualitative superiority. And launching more conventional chemical missiles is not the goal.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        But this is not only in the manned program. And not just manned. I'm talking about colonization.

                        There will be no colonization on chemical rockets. And without manned astronautics, there will be no colonization. Yes, we cannot build a normal orbital station on chemical rockets, only completely illiterate people can believe in the landing of Americans on the moon.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        And for what reason flight is not possible? Do not break the firmament of heaven?

                        Megatons of literature have been written about this, are you sure you need moonlight?
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Much has been written about Saturn, but the conspirators are counting on those who will not check.

                        Conspiroluchi - are you talking about Americans? This is yes - American lies are designed for a Westerner - who will not check but will take a word. A normal person needs proof, because we are not in the church and do not accept anything on faith.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        So much dough, how much in those flights they swelled to swell - everything will be possible. But just repeating the mission is stupid.

                        Isn't it silly to launch an electric car into space? Maskophiles will curse you! From a practical point of view, this is stupid. However, from the point of view of propaganda - it is very justified.
                        Compared to rewriting world history, turning a lunar conspiracy to the west is no more difficult than taking over $ 100 billion from the Saudis.
                      4. Simargl
                        Simargl 2 January 2019 06: 04
                        -1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Our country is already superior to competitors, but not in quantitative terms.
                        In quality? Is this how many research missions we have?
                        How many experiments on the ISS?
                        For 30 years, Phobos-soil was smashed and something else - that's it! The rest is words.
                        Federation will be a breakthrough, but will be. Although it should already be in operation.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        It is necessary to build rockets with nuclear engines
                        Rockets ?! How do you imagine this ?! At this stage of human development, rockets will be chemical for another 100 years! And not only here, but on the globe.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        There will be no colonization on chemical rockets. And without manned astronautics, there will be no colonization. Yes, we can’t build a normal orbital station on chemical missiles
                        Said above. Supplement: NOO - only chemical rockets for another 100 years! If you do not understand what a megawatt class nuclear engine is, ask, I will tell you. The Chemical Union has about 20 GW.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Megatons of literature have been written about this, are you sure you need moonlight?
                        Not literature, but tons of garbage. Everything breaks into competent explanations.
                        And I have already said that 99% is designed for an illiterate reader who cannot or will not want to check.
                        The remaining 1% - you need to be a specialist in order to explain the wrong way more competently.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Conspiroluchi - are you talking about Americans?
                        Believers in conspiracy theory (conspiracy). Including the Americans.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        A normal person needs proof, because we are not in the church and do not accept anything on faith.
                        Well, imagine them. Do not be a boob - submit a document that can at least somehow indicate falsification! Not a stupid argument designed for an amateur pseudo-patriot, but a normal one, technically competent argument or document. Do you not like lightning? Pay me to build a spacesuit - I’ll bang you a working model with a zipper for a couple of months. Yes, it will baiting, but even Orlan is not completely airtight.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Isn't it silly to launch an electric car into space?
                        A piece of concrete is not stupid.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        However, from the point of view of propaganda - it is very justified.
                        You will decide! Instead of a piece of concrete, Musk stuck a "hype" (we don't use the word correctly ... or is it correct ...?) Load.
                      5. Setrac
                        Setrac 2 January 2019 11: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        In quality? Is this how many research missions we have?

                        Again, "how much", listen, friend, are you Russian ferstein? It was about quality superiority, not quantitative. Quantitatively, we will always be inferior, since we are ten times less.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Rockets ?! How do you imagine this ?!

                        There are many options: from missiles with nuclear engines to aerospace aircraft with nuclear power plants.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        You do not understand what a megawatt class nuclear engine is - ask, I will tell. The Chemical Union has about 20 GW.

                        This is not a nuclear engine. This is a nuclear generator with electric rocket engines.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Everything breaks into competent explanations.

                        All "literate" explanations break from the reality that we all see. For example: the photo of the Saturn rocket clearly shows that there is no fuel in the second and third stages - they are empty, just a model. No frost from supercooled hydrogen. Anticipating your objections - there is no thermal insulation at the second and third stages - these are your speculations, excuses that do not correspond to reality.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Believers in conspiracy theory (conspiracy). Including the Americans.

                        But there are conspiracies, and there are many. There are masses, there are Templars, there is the Vatican who rewrites history, there is a Jewish financial elite.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Well, imagine them. Do not be a boob - submit a document that can at least somehow indicate falsification!

                        Here you have not guessed. It is necessary to prove the event, and not its absence. You have to prove that there was a flight - but you have no evidence, you just want to believe. In the meantime, we see that the layouts were flying, the video was filmed in Hollywood, instead of lunar soil - several obscure stones.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        A piece of concrete is not stupid.

                        For your information - the weight of the car does not match the declared capacity of the rocket. And yes - concrete is not stupid. A rocket test is one thing, and PR launch is another.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Instead of a piece of concrete, Musk stuck a "hype" (we don't use the word correctly ... or is it correct ...?) Load.

                        She has a low weight.
                      6. Simargl
                        Simargl 2 January 2019 15: 57
                        -1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Again, "how much", listen, friend, are you Russian ferstein? It was about quality superiority, not quantitative. Quantitatively, we will always be inferior, since we are ten times less.
                        Well, I rephrase, if the quantity is the point ...
                        Do we have independent research missions? List at least one. If there isn’t at least one, there’s no need to talk about any superiority: divide by zero! In russian, panimight? Fershteyn?

                        Quote: Setrac
                        There are many options: from missiles with nuclear engines to aerospace aircraft with nuclear power plants.
                        I thought you understood why I doubted ... I repeat:
                        Quote: Simargl
                        NOO - only chemical rockets for another 100 years!
                        ...
                        The Chemical Union has about 20 GW.
                        The most powerful nuclear reactor today is at the Civaux nuclear power plant. 1,56 GW Compare with 20 GW of not the most powerful rocket. GE90-115B - 0,3 GW, and they will need at least 4 for an air launch system such as Stratolaunch Systems, and this is not an aerospace plane yet! So another 100 years - only chemistry!

                        Quote: Setrac
                        All "competent" explanations are broken from the reality that we all see.
                        Well, what do we see?
                        Quote: Setrac
                        the photo of the Saturn rocket clearly shows that in the second and third stage there is no fuel - they are empty, just a mockup. No frost from supercooled hydrogen. Anticipating your objections - there is no thermal insulation at the second and third steps - these are your conjectures, excuses that do not correspond to reality.
                        I would like to see a photo ...
                        Explore the photos that I found ...
                        ... I could be wrong ... but what is clearly visible in the third stage? Is it a frost? At the first stage it actively "smokes" - there hydrogen is actively drained. Convinced?
                        Oh no! How could I? This is Photoshop!

                        Quote: Setrac
                        But there are conspiracies, and there are many.
                        Those. if I have a member ... can I be blamed for rape? All! Caught! I give up.
                        Masons, Templars and the Vatican are not a conspiracy. We can debate, but this is not a conspiracy.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Here you have not guessed. It is necessary to prove the event, and not its absence.
                        What is it like? People, at one time did the work. Adequate world believed, checking along the way. There are many artifacts and documents.
                        Now they have to prove again? What for?
                        Sue. Lose - you will be left without pants. Win - get rich. Are you afraid Or balabol?
                        Submit witnesses or documents for action. Can you?

                        Quote: Setrac
                        In the meantime, we see that the layouts were flying, the video was filmed in Hollywood, instead of lunar soil - several obscure stones.
                        Wait a minute! I admit that they could have filmed something "in Hollywood" for a better understanding of what was happening.
                        But I admit, I did not see those videos and / or photos.
                        Please provide these artifacts. Or are you balabol?
                        I, in turn, provide several links with interesting, in my opinion, materials:
                        1 - www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/albums/with/72157658592613769
                        2 - www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/catalog/70mm/
                        3 - www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/379

                        Quote: Setrac
                        For your information - the weight of the car does not match the declared capacity of the rocket.
                        Technically illiterate. The machine was pulled towards Mars and beyond. Guess how much of the useless load has provided this trajectory outside the DOE. Before you mix - sort out the topic.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        And yes - concrete is not stupid. A rocket test is one thing, and PR launch is another.
                        If I’m not a statesman, but a private trader, then I have the right to suffer from garbage (for example, when I smoke when I use all kinds of rubbish). Well, Mask wanted to show off and throw out a bored personal thing in an expensive way (maybe they wanted to take expensive for battery disposal).

                        Quote: Setrac
                        She has a low weight.
                        Almost the answer (hint) is higher. Search.
                      7. Setrac
                        Setrac 2 January 2019 18: 17
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Do we have independent research missions?

                        Maybe this is news for you - but in the West there are also no self-sufficient missions. Americans do not disdain Russian participation in their missions and make extensive use of Russian space technology.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        The most powerful nuclear reactor today is at the Civaux nuclear power plant. 1,56 GW Compare with 20 GW of not the most powerful rocket. GE90-115B - 0,3 GW, and they will need at least 4 for an air launch system such as Stratolaunch Systems

                        I understood perfectly, you don’t understand. Probably you are not a techie by education. The scheme of an electric power generator plus electric rocket engines is initially flawed due to the lack of electric generators with the required specific power. A nuclear rocket engine uses nuclear fuel either directly - by throwing it out through the nozzle, or heats the working fluid in the combustion chamber, although this will no longer be a combustion chamber. And Russia has such developments.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Those. if I have a member ... can I be blamed for rape? All! Caught! I give up.

                        On the thief and the hat is on. Can you assume that you periodically have sex?
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Adequate world believed, checking along the way.

                        This is what you call the West "an adequate world"? Is that your humor? Nobody believed anyone, the Chinese are going to check, but ours just agreed, Stalin was not there - he would shoot everyone as traitors to the Motherland and he would be right. So treat those who are on the side of our enemies - traitors to the Motherland.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Sue.

                        Quote: Simargl
                        Lose - you will be left without pants.

                        That is, the one who has the most money wins in court, and not the one who is right. It convicts you of your beloved Americans in a lie.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        ... I could be wrong ... but what is clearly visible in the third stage? Is it a frost? At the first stage it actively "smokes" - there hydrogen is actively drained. Convinced?
                        Oh no! How could I? This is Photoshop!

                        Once again I will say - you do not have a technical education - you can immediately see. Hydrogen is not natural gas. Natural gas is stored under pressure and when it is consumed, the cylinder is cooled. Hydrogen is stored at a very low temperature, it is cold initially and icing should be present initially, regardless of flow rate.
                        Ferstein? This "photoshop" is proof of deception.
                        There is an option that in the photo one of the first missiles - when the first stage tests were carried out and the rest - is just a mock for testing. But then show the original rocket with three stages filled with hydrogen.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Technically illiterate.

                        What is technically illiterate? That the weight of the electric car does not match the declared tens of tons of rocket carrying capacity? Who is illiterate here?
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Well, Mask wanted to show off

                        So I said - PR action, idiotic and impractical, but useful in terms of propaganda.
                      8. Simargl
                        Simargl 2 January 2019 18: 59
                        -1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Maybe this is news for you - but in the West there are also no self-sufficient missions. Americans do not disdain Russian participation in their missions and make extensive use of Russian space technology.
                        Distort again? An independent mission, where the mission operator takes his rocket and makes his apparatus. The equipment of other participants can be hung on the device.
                        We have nothing to date. So we are in no way ahead of anyone.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Probably you are not a techie by education.
                        Techie, but not a rocketeer.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        A nuclear rocket engine uses nuclear fuel either directly - by throwing it out through the nozzle, or heats the working fluid in the combustion chamber, although this will no longer be a combustion chamber. And Russia has such developments.
                        Not so creepy! To set the starting table at the Semipalatinsk training ground?

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Nobody believed anyone, the Chinese are going to check
                        More? I did not hear.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        It convicts you of your beloved Americans in a lie.
                        No wait a minute! You claim that they did not do the job. They have artifacts and documents that can be regarded as evidence.
                        You do not provide any evidence to support your claim. Therefore, your statement insignificantly!
                        Give at least one evidence! The only thing! No them!

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Once again I will say - you do not have a technical education - you can immediately see. Hydrogen is not natural gas. Natural gas is stored under pressure and when it is consumed, the cylinder is cooled. Hydrogen is stored at a very low temperature, it is cold initially and icing should be present initially, regardless of flow rate.
                        Fershteyn?
                        You claim that I am not a techie, but drive an outright blizzard over the technical part of gas storage.
                        I give a little information (to be honest, I don’t look at brechopedia, so I can be wrong in numbers): oxygen, hydrogen, methane (natural gas) are stored and transported in a chilled state. Moreover, hydrogen and methane cannot be liquefied at normal temperatures! If you mean gas used in cars, compressed methane or liquefied propane-butane mixture is used (methane is usually used in large ATP - it is cheaper, but the equipment is heavier and more expensive: for a passenger car from 80tyr). Further: look closely at our oxygen-kerosene rockets: before the launch, the state is absolutely consistent with what is seen in the photo series that I have provided: a rather thin layer of "fur coat" that flies around from vibration at the start.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        But then show the original rocket with three stages filled with hydrogen.
                        So why do not I like the photo I provided? If you need to, look in good quality so as not to accuse me of photoshop. More technical information: the rocket cannot stand under pressure indefinitely: there are no cryo-equipment there, so they charge it shortly before launch. If the start is delayed, the fuel is drained.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        What is technically illiterate? That the weight of the electric car does not match the declared tens of tons of rocket carrying capacity? Who is illiterate here?
                        You are technically illiterate. And do not try to fix it.
                        A rocket designed to bring cargo to the DOE cannot push the cargo into orbit towards Mars. Think further. I will prompt. Then.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        So I said - PR action, idiotic and impractical, but useful in terms of propaganda.
                        You really decide.
                      9. Setrac
                        Setrac 2 January 2019 21: 35
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        The equipment of other participants can be hung on the device.

                        Are you playing this down? Just equipment? These are often key elements without which a mission is not possible.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Not so creepy! To set the starting table at the Semipalatinsk training ground?

                        This is absolutely not enough. To set the launch pad in Antarctica. I am not kidding.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        More? I did not hear.

                        Do you see a gopher? And he is !!!
                        Quote: Simargl
                        They have artifacts and documents that can be regarded as evidence.

                        Documents do not prove anything, they are made on Earth. And artifacts here in more detail please. So that I can object, I need to know what to object to.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        oxygen, hydrogen, methane (natural gas) are stored and transported in a refrigerated state.

                        However, the liquefaction temperatures are different. Will you mind?
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Next: look carefully at our oxygen-kerosene rockets

                        Kerosene does not shrink at all because it is a liquid. And oxygen can be stored at room temperature in an oxygen cylinder. With hydrogen, this will not work.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        So why do not I like the photo I provided?

                        I do not like that in the photo a rocket with a model without fuel instead of the second and third stages. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that all three stages have the same fuel, but the first stage is icy, and the second and third are not. They have no significant thermal insulation. The first stage has iced up ANOTHER BEFORE THE START, the second and third stage - without any signs of icing at all - they do not have hydrogen - just mock-ups.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        More technical information: the rocket cannot stand under pressure indefinitely: there are no cryo-equipment there, so they charge it shortly before launch.

                        Cryo equipment is available both on the launch pad and the rocket is not under pressure (under slight pressure), they liquefy hydrogen at a low temperature.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        A rocket designed to bring cargo to the DOE cannot push the cargo into orbit towards Mars. Think further. I will prompt. Then.

                        These are your speculations, there were no acceleration blocks, the electric car Mask will not get to Mars.
                      10. Simargl
                        Simargl 2 January 2019 23: 08
                        -1
                        As I understand it, speaking no longer, because You ignore the materials provided and do not provide confirmation of your words.
                        In addition, you are technically illiterate and do not try to get technical information even of a general plan from the answers to you.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        However, the liquefaction temperatures are different. Will you mind?
                        I will not, because order one - below 110 K.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        Kerosene does not shrink at all because it is a liquid.
                        So what? Tanks of denser matter are always lower. Those. kerosene tank is located under the oxygen in the pH. But actually, I drew attention to almost exactly the same traces of hoarfrost on the Union, on Saturn-5 at all three levels. Those. You either fly, or do not read the answers, or do not understand what it is about.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        And oxygen can be stored at room temperature in an oxygen cylinder
                        Technically illiterate statement in the context of the conversation. You, I suppose, only saw the oxygen cylinder in the picture? Do you know what working pressure? 25 MPa. If there is such pressure in the tank of the rocket, it will burst. In addition, compressed gas is stored in an oxygen cylinder, and liquid, with a reduced temperature, is pumped into the PH at a temperature below boiling, the pressure in the tank can be atmospheric.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        . I would like to draw your attention to the fact that all three stages have the same fuel, but the first stage is icy, and the second and third are not.
                        For those who are in the tank: the heat capacity of liquefied gases is not high, therefore, in the "calm" state, the "coat" grows at a low speed, a similar "coat" appears in the Soviet Union.
                        Further. The first stage of Saturn actively "smokes" because the liquefied gas is actively consumed, the pressure drops in the free volume, boils into the liquefied gas, the gas phase has a low heat capacity, so the body has time to heat up, the liquid phase has a higher heat capacity, but the temperature drops more and more for due to the vaporization of the gas and the transition from the liquid to the gaseous phase.
                        On the provided photos of the starting Saturn, everything is clearly visible.
                        You can see how liquefied gas behaves on the example of air to purge equipment. True, I do not promise frost, but there will be condensation.
                        Learn physics at school.

                        Quote: Setrac
                        These are your speculations, there were no acceleration blocks, the electric car Mask will not get to Mars.
                        Second stage. It's okay. I didn’t try to get to Mars, otherwise I bought the Frigate at least.
                      11. Setrac
                        Setrac 2 January 2019 23: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        As I understand it, speaking no longer, because You ignore

                        You are ignoring the fact that there is no fuel in the second and third stages.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        The first stage of Saturn actively "smokes" because liquefied gas is actively consumed

                        These are all your excuses. The liquefaction temperature of hydrogen is 20 degrees Kelvin. It is initially cold and it doesn’t matter whether it is consumed or not.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        the liquid phase has a higher heat capacity

                        That's exactly hydrogen that is initially found in tanks in liquid form - in all three steps, and ice is formed for some reason only in the first step.

                        Look carefully at how the first stage is steaming and why the second and third do not. After all, in all three steps there is hydrogen at an extremely low temperature.
                      12. Setrac
                        Setrac 2 January 2019 23: 30
                        0

                        So the Union has not yet started for you - it is clear that all the steps are steaming.
                      13. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 2 January 2019 23: 38
                        0
                        Look carefully at how the first stage is steaming and why the second and third do not. After all, in all three steps there is hydrogen at an extremely low temperature




                        Have you heard anything about the use of thermal insulation on the launch vehicle?
                      14. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 January 2019 00: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Have you heard anything about the use of thermal insulation on the launch vehicle?

                        If thermal insulation of a similar level existed, our houses would not need heating.
                        You say directly - so they say and so on the Saturns there was such a thermal insulation, but why didn’t they use it in the first step?
                        You just wondered if you came up with an excuse about thermal insulation, but you don’t know if it was on Saturn or not.
                      15. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 3 January 2019 01: 04
                        0
                        You just wondered if you came up with an excuse about thermal insulation, but you don’t know if it was on Saturn or not.






                        All steps are liquid, with supporting tanks.

                        First the stage uses kerosene and liquid oxygen as fuel and oxidizer, respectively, top cryogenic steps (fuel - liquid hydrogen, oxidizing agent - liquid oxygen).



                        The second the stage consists of an upper adapter, fuel tanks, an engine compartment with five J-2 rocket engines, and a lower adapter between the first and second stage. On the upper adapter 3,5 meters long, 4 solid-fuel braking engines are installed, which start after the separation of the third stage and brake the second stage.

                        The fuel compartment includes tanks of liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen. The bottom and walls of the hydrogen tank are covered with thermal insulation, which reduces the loss of hydrogen due to evaporation at the starting position and in flight. The thickness of the thermal insulation of the walls is 4 cm, the upper bottom is about 1 cm. To ensure fire safety, the thermal insulation is blown with helium. Tanks have an adjacent bottom (partition), which consists of two shells, the space between which is filled with thermal insulation.


                        Third stage consists of upper and lower adapters, fuel tank compartment and propulsion system. Hydrogen and oxygen tanks are aluminum, have a common bottom. The hydrogen tank is covered with internal thermal insulation.
                      16. The comment was deleted.
                      17. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 January 2019 12: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Each tank is equipped with its own bottom with thermal insulation.

                        Nevertheless, the Union steam comes from the second stage, despite the thermal insulation. This nullifies all your evidence. Your explanations do not roll against the facts.
                      18. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 3 January 2019 12: 22
                        0
                        Liquid hydrogen, used as fuel in the second stage, has a boiling point of -253 ° C (20 ° K); to reduce the supply of heat to it, the outer wall of the tank is covered with thermal insulation of a layered structure.

                        The low temperature of the tank’s power structure made it possible to increase the permissible stresses and the resulting weight gain compensated for a significant part of the heat insulation weight.

                        The possibility of air penetration into the thermal insulation and, with its fractional liquefaction, the formation of a significant amount of condensed oxygen was taken into account.

                        Thermal insulation materials are organic compounds and are sensitive to contact with liquid oxygen.

                        To avoid the penetration of air, the thermal insulation is covered with a sealing film on the outside, and helium is blown inside. However, helium flushing increases the heat transfer coefficient and degrades its properties.

                        The thermal insulation is designed so that during the take-off and acceleration of the rocket, the amount of heat absorbed by hydrogen is less than 45 kcal.

                        The thickness of the thermal insulation, taking into account the influence on the heat transfer coefficient of the helium purge, was taken equal to 40,6 mm.

                        Thermal insulation of a cellular structure made of fiberglass with polyurethane filler. A phenolic resin-impregnated nylon laminate protects the foam insulation from high temperatures reaching 185 ° C on the outer surface of the tank. Thermal insulation on top is covered with a sealing tadlar film.

                        Due to the high fire hazard arising from the use of liquid hydrogen, it was accepted that all heat-insulating materials should have the property of self-extinguishing when ignited in the atmosphere.

                        In the process of testing various samples of thermal insulation, it was found that any values ​​of the concentration of liquid oxygen in excess of 20% are dangerous. Therefore, purging the thermal insulation with helium is necessary.

                        The experimentally obtained thermal conductivity coefficient of thermal insulation with a thickness of 40,6 mm with helium purging is 0,093 kcal / m · h · deg. For evacuated thermal insulation, the thermal conductivity coefficient is less than 0,0248 kcal / m · h · deg.
                      19. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 January 2019 12: 27
                        0
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        The bottom and walls of the hydrogen tank are covered with thermal insulation, reducing the loss of hydrogen due to evaporation at the starting position and in flight

                        The key word here is "shortening" - because the thermal insulation is clearly insufficient and the tanks are steaming.
                      20. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 3 January 2019 13: 14
                        0
                        That’s the whole explanation of the visual difference between the first stage (at which thermal insulation is not applied) and the second and third on which it is
                      21. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 January 2019 13: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        That’s the whole explanation of the visual difference between the first stage (at which thermal insulation is not applied) and the second and third on which it is

                        The Union also has "it" at the second stage, but it pairs no worse than the first stage.
                      22. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 3 January 2019 13: 54
                        0
                        The Union also has "it is" at the second stage, but it pairs no worse than the first stage



                        Well, discard the info about the thermal insulation of tanks of the 2nd stage of the Union .... let's see what is there .. or not)
                      23. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 January 2019 13: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Well, discard the info about the thermal insulation of tanks of the 2nd stage of the Union .... let's see what is there .. or not)

                        Dear, you yourself posted it above, why will it be repeated? Our dialogue will move from the plane "was there thermal insulation" to the plane "is it enough"? Why is there not enough on the Union and enough on Saturn? This is a discrepancy that needs to be resolved somehow, but who will give us data on the thermal conductivity of the materials used?
                      24. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 3 January 2019 15: 47
                        0
                        All that I posted applies only to Saturn
                      25. Simargl
                        Simargl 3 January 2019 08: 10
                        -1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        If thermal insulation of a similar level existed, our houses would not need heating.
                        At an altitude of 10 km, the temperature is -60C, the insulation of the aircraft is 1-3 cm and normal.
                      26. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 January 2019 12: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        At an altitude of 10 km, the temperature is -60C, the insulation of the aircraft is 1-3 cm and normal.

                        I’ll say more - in your car it’s warm in winter despite the frost - and there’s practically no thermal insulation in the car
                      27. The comment was deleted.
                      28. Simargl
                        Simargl 3 January 2019 08: 40
                        -1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Look carefully at the first step and why the second and third do not? Here is the start of Saturn-5

                        If you do not see falling pieces of ice from the upper steps at 1:08, I don’t know.
                        At 2:41, the joint S-IC and S-II is clearly visible, from the upper steps and pairs it goes, and pieces of ice fall.
                        At 4:00 a.m., 4:28 a.m. 4:42 one can clearly see the falling ice from the S-IVB stage (third).
                        I provided a photo - even there you can see the ice.
                        You ignore what I wrote and make all the traditional mistakes of conspirators - ignoramus. It is more difficult for specialists to object and point out errors: you need to delve into the technique.
                      29. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 January 2019 12: 20
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        If you do not see falling pieces of ice

                        What a wonderful video. It clearly shows how ice and steam goes when separating the cryo-equipment from the rocket, after separation, everything is cut off, in the second stage there is no steam or snow.
                        I understand thermal insulation, but it is not perfect, there should be steam if there is liquid hydrogen. After all, the Union with liquid oxygen has it despite thermal insulation.
                      30. Setrac
                        Setrac 3 January 2019 12: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        conspirators - ignoramus

                        Well, of course, one Andrey is smart and all the rest are fools.
          2. bayard
            bayard 31 December 2018 00: 10
            +2
            1. Our hydrogen engine was on the second stage of the "Energy" and withstood 30 full cycles of firing tests in terms of resource (they simply did not become more) - that is, it was ready for (at least) 10 repeated flights (threefold redundancy). In subsequent times, there was simply no carrier for this engine ... which is a pity.
            2. All engines from Energia - RD-170, RD-171, daughter RD-180 and RD-190 have a service life of 10 - 30 flights. And, by the way, the first stage of "Energy" was going to be made reversible (by parachute).
            3. Amers did not have powerful and reliable liquid-propellant engines, but there was a breakthrough in solid-fuel ones under the Minuteman program, so they took advantage of it. They worked on the Shuttle program (beginning in the mid-60s) and then used them to increase the energy of their missiles. Not from a good life ... + ecology ...
            4. About missions manned to the Moon - not a fact (!), As well as other "manned" up to the "Shuttle" _ "Mercury", "Gemeni", Apollo "- this is a Hollywood fake ... and a Soviet play-along for fat interest. Just look at their "moon" spacesuit with a zipper on the back - have fun.
            5. About American ships, say, when they fly with a crew at least once. We, too, have a new "finish", but "Soyuz" is reliable and so far irreplaceable, for it has been checked ... If it is not drilled.

            But the Chinese are great - they have a program, financing and a PLANNED economy, they are gradually closing the technological gap with us and the West, they are mastering the technologies and LEARNING.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 1 January 2019 08: 49
              -1
              1, 2 - the potential is not used in any way.
              3 - and they will continue to use this MTKK.
              4 - 99% of the "arguments" of conspiracy theorists are dilettante delusions or are designed for dilettantes. The eagle, in which they start, is generally tied like a bag, if you don't know. 1% - you need to delve into and "feel".
              5 - they have already used 3 types of at least manned options. And we have - 2. Their manned program does not have long to wait, but where is ours? It seems - do not finish, but saw. And, as it turned out, more problems with hole makers appeared.
              Yes, the Chinese are great.
              1. bayard
                bayard 1 January 2019 13: 50
                0
                1,2 - And what is the "Angara" flying on? And what kind of engines is the Soyuz-5 designed with? The hydrogen reserve is not used, but this does not mean that it is not ... Yes, and work has been resumed on both hydrogen and methane, and it seems like with the Chinese. In any case, they have great interest.
                3 - solid fuel are used, why not if they work? We still have the "Seven" flying, and will be. And Elon Musk generally took the junk of the 60s into circulation with a pressure in the chamber of 95 atmospheres, with ours 210 - 213 atmospheres.
                4 - I learned about the lunar scam back in 1985 from one (then not yet old) colonel who served at Baikonur from the foundation until 1980. Yes, and I myself have provided at least a hundred landing vehicles (more military). So those who needed it knew about this, and about Kubrick's "shooting of the landing", and that the Americans had nothing to fly. There was a big, very serious conspiracy that eventually spilled out in 1991.
                And if the "Orlan" has a "diving" seal for relief, this does not mean that a regular zipper (as on the fly) will seal the American homemade product. You are not a professional and do not know the topic, so hold back your impulse.
                5. - It doesn't matter how many types they used, it matters whether they had a crew. In the meantime, they fly on "Soyuz", and intend to fly further. Not very much their "Drakens" function. And it is not known how they return.
                We have nowhere to rush - there are no missions for new ships yet, just as there are no carriers. Work is underway on both the ship and the carriers. But the "Rogozin factor" ... and general capitalist psychology, engineering and design work is not conducive to.
                There is no big promising space program, no program of breakthrough to a new quality, to new goals. And for the fact that there is and "Union" is enough - it is reliable.
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl 1 January 2019 17: 08
                  0
                  Quote: bayard
                  1,2 - And what is the "Angara" flying on?
                  For those in the tank: I said that it is not used potentialand not the engine! We have no engine reuse practices, which means the engines used excessively durable and therefore expensive for current usage practice !!!
                  Quote: bayard
                  But Elon Musk generally took the old 60s into circulation with a pressure of 95 atmospheres in the chamber
                  However, its engines in terms of thrust-weight ratio and price are lower than even the RD-180. And actually used several times.
                  Quote: bayard
                  I learned about the lunar scam back in 1985 from one (then still not old) colonel who served in Baikonur from its foundation until 1980, etc.
                  Casing in 1976 released his scribble.
                  Sworn friends scan photos a bit, digitize video and audio. I didn’t look for audio - there are thousands of hours - I do not perceive English well by ear, especially on the radio. But I watched the video and photo - interesting. This amount is almost impossible to fake.
                  The recognition of Kubrick is fake.
                  Quote: bayard
                  And if the Orlan has a "diving" seal for relief, this does not mean that normal lightning (as on a fly) will ensure the sealing of American homemade
                  Stop stop! You want to convince me that they struck lightning ordinary? Ordinary?! Without technical solutions for sealing ?! However, the usual lightning on my jacket holds water (without pressure). The jacket is not for going out into outer space - it's just winter.
                  Quote: bayard
                  You are not a professional and you do not own the topic, so hold on to the impulse.
                  After being approved with lightning, I dare to doubt your professionalism.
                  Quote: bayard
                  It doesn’t matter how many types they used, it’s important whether the crew
                  Are you trying to hold me for an idiot? There were three types manned QC, intermittently.
                  Quote: bayard
                  In the meantime, they fly on "Soyuz", and intend to fly further.
                  Farther? Further - this is from the strength of three years. How many contracts? The fact that the Americans stick out in the CPC in preparation does not mean anything.
                  Quote: bayard
                  Not very much their "Drakens" function. And it is not known how they return.
                  Come on! Not really straight? They load more than Progress, they return the cargo. Have you had any losses?
                  Quote: bayard
                  We have nowhere to hurry - for the new ships there are no tasks yet, as there are no carriers.
                  That's where the dog buried itself! While we stand still - Musk overtook us on commercial launches. They will complete the manned spacecraft - they will carry tourists: there are many places there. And in the Union, 1-2 people will fly, if it is where ...
                  Quote: bayard
                  But the "Rogozin factor" ... and general capitalist psychology, engineering and design work is not conducive to.
                  Rogozin's factor is called nepotism. N-2 got burned up by the fact that he was not appointing responsible professionals, but thieving relatives and lizoblyudov. Doesn’t resemble anything? Our capitalism is wild, but in its pure form it is actually anarchy.
                  Quote: bayard
                  There is no big promising space program, no program of breakthrough to a new quality, to new goals. And for the fact that there is and "Union" is enough - it is reliable.
                  The union has not been enough since when they decided to push the third one - almost 30 !!! Thirty years!
                  This is the first. Secondly, it is not universal: it cannot be used for landing on a planetoid, it is cramped, etc., etc. Perhaps because there are no solutions for large programs - too much needs to be designed, including the new QC.
                  Well, the desire of the S-7 to ride tourists with the Union is not particularly realized.
        3. ruigat
          ruigat 31 December 2018 03: 16
          0
          The achievements of 1960-1980 in space are the achievements of the USSR, not the Russian Federation. Achievements of the Russian Federation in space, this is Phobos in the ground, the Mir station in the ocean, and gastrobaying on mattresses and POPIL on a cosmic scale.
          1. hrych
            hrych 31 December 2018 03: 43
            +2
            Quote: ruigat
            Achievements of 1960-1980 in space

            Yes, yes, of course, the USSR, he suddenly fell off the moon, but it’s nothing that Korolev was born under the tsarist regime and was trained to read and write, while Tsiolkovsky had already calculated everything, but without Mendeleev it was impossible. As there were Russian people, as there was a Russian scientific and engineering school, it remained so. No great Uzbeks or Kyrgyzs created rockets, but read the Russian people, well, a few Little Russian surnames like Glushko flickered and no more. And the names of the state and regimes changed. Be it after 1991, all the engineers were again sent to the moon. How they worked, they work, of course they grow old and the students grow up. And the fact that when the outskirts fell off from Russia, they proved that in themselves there was nothing without Russians, there was an aircraft industry in Uzbekistan and Georgia, and a guide is all. Here, even in Ukraine, oats weren’t a horse, there was the Yuzhnoye space rocket design bureau, Antonov was, and the aircraft carriers built Nikolayev And for some reason, the second Storage without Russia South accumulated, and Antonov - bankrupt. But the Russian Federation doesn’t go further than Vanguards and Poseidons, whether you like it or not. And do not carry heresy about the Soviet man, there was none, all the national minorities under the USSR began to cut each other everywhere and everywhere.
            1. ruigat
              ruigat 31 December 2018 10: 59
              -2
              Yes, yes, of course, the USSR, he suddenly fell off the moon, but it’s nothing that Korolev was born under the tsarist regime and was trained to read and write, while Tsiolkovsky had already calculated everything, but without Mendeleev it was impossible. As there were Russian people, as there was a Russian scientific and engineering school, it remained so. No great Uzbeks or Kyrgyzs created rockets, but read the Russian people, well, a few Little Russian surnames like Glushko flickered and no more.

              No need for poor manipulations. For 30 years of space exploration of the USSR, continuous breakthroughs, for 30 years of the reign of the oligarchy of the Russian Federation in space alone sawed. Uzbeks and Kyrgyz also have their own oligarchs, so where will the breakthroughs come from? So if engineers from the USSR haven’t gone anywhere you say WHERE BREAKTHROUGHS in space in the Russian Federation?
              And the fact that when the outskirts fell off from Russia, they proved that in themselves there was nothing without Russians, there was an aircraft industry in Uzbekistan and Georgia, and a guide is all. Here, even in Ukraine, oats weren’t a horse, there was the Yuzhnoye space rocket design bureau, there was Antonov, and Nikolaev carriers were built by aircraft carriers. And for some reason, the second Storage without Russia South accumulated, and Antonov - bankrupt. But the Russian Federation doesn’t go further than Vanguards and Poseidons, whether you like it or not. And do not carry heresy about the Soviet man, there was none, all the national minorities under the USSR began to cut each other everywhere and everywhere.

              The oligarch of the Russian Federation shoots cartoons about the Vanguards and Poseidons (and not only). And where is the oligarch of the Russian Federation of affairs LV "Energia", MAKS, YARD-0410? In the Russian Federation, according to you, everything is gorgeous in space. There were Soviet people until such individuals as you (the Nazis) appeared among them, who began to cut each other.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 31 December 2018 13: 31
                +1
                Quote: ruigat
                Over 30 years of space exploration in the USSR, continuous breakthroughs

                You just ... don't fumble.
                Missile technology developed because it was necessary for the security of our state. Without the means of delivery of nuclear weapons we would have been destroyed long ago, it was an urgent need to develop missile technology.
                Missions to Mars or Jupiter do not affect our safety. In fact, all these unmanned missions to other planets are useless, their price is ZERO. Serious planetary exploration will begin only when we can send living explorers there.
                1. snake
                  snake 1 January 2019 12: 33
                  -1
                  Quote: Setrac
                  Missile technology developed because it was necessary for the security of our state.

                  Here's how simple it is: Need security? Please - rocket technology. Business, spit and grind.
                  Quote: Setrac
                  In fact, all these unmanned missions to other planets are useless, their price is ZERO.

                  ZERO, this is the price of your comment. And unmanned missions to other planets are the peak of the achievements of the research complex.
                  Quote: Setrac
                  Serious planetary exploration will begin only when we can send living explorers there.

                  Unfortunately, a person is very fragile for such acts.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 1 January 2019 15: 13
                    0
                    Quote: serpent
                    Unfortunately, a person is very fragile for such acts.

                    Is man too fragile for walking on the seas, for flying in the air, now for flying in space, when did this stop a person?
                    Quote: serpent
                    ZERO, this is the price of your comment.

                    Seriously? Are these your arguments? Run into the interlocutor!
                    Quote: serpent
                    Here's how simple it is: Need security? Please - rocket technology. Business, spit and grind.

                    Difficult or simple - it doesn’t matter. It is important that this was necessary, it was a matter of the survival of our state. There is no urgent need for our state in flights to Mars and the Moon or in unmanned interplanetary missions.
                    Quote: serpent
                    And unmanned missions to other planets are the peak of the achievements of the research complex.

                    Come on. To send a tiny machine into space is a task for students.
              2. hrych
                hrych 31 December 2018 15: 27
                0
                Quote: ruigat
                Russian oligarchy cartoons about Vanguards and Poseidons

                So at least occasionally watch the news, Poseidon waved at you in the workshop, and the launch of the Vanguard along with Putin is shown. Or you need to fly next to the block with a torpedo and spill, so that the operator was there with the camera wassat I do not want to say, but the inferiority of thinking can become famous with such statements. Okay, the first time that Putin voiced, there was animation, now everything, prototypes, launches, etc. RN Energia with side suspension of the cargo, sharpened under the Buran, both of its launches had a blockage in the direction of mass displacement. At the Shuttle, it was easier there to push the engine of the displayed cargo, and accelerators to help disperse it. Here, there is a clear bias, so the topic was curtailed, incl. Well, plus Buran was simply not needed. Everything is gorgeous in space in the Russian Federation; the Ministry of Defense has at least 140 tracking, pointing, positioning and communication satellites there. In the USSR, spy satellites dropped a photo film for development in a capsule by parachute wassat But nothing that progress is going on and the satellites have better resolution, you do not need to show the film in the era of digital technology. Communication and navigation in the USSR was always nikakuschee, and television, as many as 2 programs, did computer, pumped, could not provide people with video recorders. Al do not remember such a device. In short, leave these mythical stories about the USSR to epic storytellers. As for the deep space exploration, the USSR completely failed, lost its manpower and resources for the Martian research program, the apparatuses failed, well, the apparatus was lowered onto Venus, which worked for 15 minutes and the kayuk. Galea's comets saw an image in the IR spectrum, and it was better to do this from Earth. The USA, on the other hand, made Voyagers pictures of both Saturn and Jupiter with their moons. The political bureaucrats passed our leadership here, and not at all in the Russian Federation. At least the Russian Federation has participated in international missions, and there the greatest achievements and high-resolution cameras, and the contacts of devices with asteroids, etc., were now. Like this.
            2. snake
              snake 1 January 2019 12: 23
              0
              Quote: hrych
              Yes, yes, of course, the USSR, he suddenly fell off the moon, but nothing that Korolev was born under the tsarist regime and was trained to read and write,

              Under the Romanovs, Khrych, under them - the damned. That's a funny paradox.
      2. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 30 December 2018 13: 06
        +4
        Quote: den3080
        The leadership of Russia and the USA in space has ended.

        China is still far from the United States, but Russia has already jumped.
        1. den3080
          den3080 30 December 2018 14: 04
          0
          This energy would be (and money) RUSSIA AND THE USA could use for space exploration, and not for the creation of ever new methods of destroying each other.
          1. Hole puncher
            Hole puncher 30 December 2018 20: 04
            +1
            Quote: den3080
            This energy would be (and money) RUSSIA AND THE USA could use for space exploration, and not for the creation of ever new methods of destroying each other.

            Ever since Gagarin’s flight, smart people have been talking about this ...
          2. Setrac
            Setrac 30 December 2018 23: 01
            -1
            Quote: den3080
            This energy would be (and money) RUSSIA AND THE USA could use for space exploration, and not for the creation of ever new methods of destroying each other.

            Military technology goes into civilian life. If it weren’t for the military, there wasn’t such a jerk in space in the USSR.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
    3. ver_
      ver_ 30 December 2018 17: 59
      -1
      ... imitate coconuts - pissing in an arc - * illuminate the so-called place of planting of coconuts and their car * - the Yusovites promised * an answer * for such an event ..
    4. Simargl
      Simargl 30 December 2018 18: 09
      -2
      Quote: Broken
      Everything is the same .. USA saw everything there ..
      On the reverse side, no one has yet ridden, much less walked.
  2. Altona
    Altona 30 December 2018 10: 31
    -10
    As previously stated in CNSA, the first soft landing on the far side of the moon will be a real breakthrough for both China and the whole world.
    ------------------------------
    But the USSR and the USA did not set such a task? In general, automatic stations are already feeling something there outside the solar system, and here is just the dark side of the moon.
    1. ver_
      ver_ 30 December 2018 18: 03
      -1
      .. * dark room with a black cat at night * ..
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 30 December 2018 23: 02
        -1
        Quote: ver_
        . * dark room with a black cat at night * ..

        Apt phrase about
        Quote: Altona
        automatic stations are already feeling something out there outside the solar system

        feel it - reminders
    2. snake
      snake 1 January 2019 12: 48
      0
      Quote: Altona
      just the dark side of the moon.

      I'm sorry, but someone needs to clarify. There is no "dark side of the moon". Only the "invisible" side to us. With a new moon, for example, the "dark side" is quite illuminated.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 1 January 2019 15: 17
        0
        Quote: serpent
        There is no "dark side of the moon". Only the "invisible" side to us.

        The far side of the Moon from the Earth is "dark" - because it is not illuminated by the holy light of elven democracy, and not because the Sun does not illuminate it.
  3. figwam
    figwam 30 December 2018 10: 32
    -7
    And as always there will not be a single photograph, let alone video, everything will be limited to computer graphics.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 30 December 2018 18: 18
      -2
      Quote: figvam
      And as always there will be no photos
      They posted a video from "Hare"
  4. GKS 2111
    GKS 2111 30 December 2018 10: 33
    +12
    I don’t doubt even that. You look at how everything develops in them in all sectors of industry — he takes a flurry. And we slipped to the gas station level, it’s a shame, but a fact. It's a shame, damn it ... I lived in that period of life when the opposite was true ..
    1. ROBIN-SON
      ROBIN-SON 30 December 2018 11: 02
      +11
      I remember when the Chinese overseas went in formation in blue jackets. I remember how we mocked about the 500 Chinese warning. Now we have an influx of Chinese tourists, not tops, but ordinary people. So they have money for a plane, hotel, etc. And where are we? Just do not refer to our TV ....
      1. hrych
        hrych 30 December 2018 11: 50
        +2
        Quote: ROBIN-SON
        Now we have an influx of Chinese tourists, not tops, but ordinary people.

        And in China, the EU, Turkey, Egypt, Vietnam, Thailand, the influx of our tourists, not tops, but ordinary people wassat So what? And let's count the poor on the verge of starvation, so there will be more of them in the PRC of the Russian Federation and the USA combined with giblets. There are 50 million poor people in the USA, i.e. people without medical insurance, and an ambulance doesn’t even come to such people. But who would argue that the United States is a powerful power, such is the Russian Federation, and there is nothing to be stingy and put the Chinese higher. Especially on such indicators as tourism, rich, poor and other heresies. The economy and defense should be self-sufficient, and not more than anyone or less. The United States is not self-sufficient in energy, but it provides combat power and influence, and China is completely self-sufficient, neither in energy, nor in mineral raw materials in general, nor in defense, nor in technology, nor (most important) in food. The other day, they decided to buy rice in the USA, this is how the USSR decided to buy wheat at sunset from the USA by pumping gold from a batch. Apparently from great happiness and brotherly love.
        1. spektr9
          spektr9 30 December 2018 11: 58
          +2
          While some commentators are driving China here, the latter do and do, slowly taking the place of the world's first economy ...
          1. hrych
            hrych 30 December 2018 12: 24
            +1
            Quote: spektr9
            ranking first world economy

            This is complete nonsense, no one in the six casino will not win, the rules are set by the heads of the casino. They will never overtake the USA, especially since the PRC depends on the sales market in the USA, and Trump has come and the prospect is not overtaking, but strangulation. And for some reason, the EU in our politics is Empire, but in the economy it passed by. The EU is the second economy in the world. The PRC has a huge trade surplus in relation to the EU and the USA, and Chinese goods are easily replaced on the market by Indian, Vietnamese, Indonesian, etc. Therefore, the prospect of the outbreak of a trade war is predetermined. Although you memorize the quotes of Mao by heart, the PRC has reached the top and now it has only a way to go into the abyss. They destroyed the village for the sake of world consumer goods, and try to drive the internal Gaster into the village back. In addition to defense, Putin is the only one in the last millennium who has solved the problem of Russian agriculture. And the Chinese said that they buy rice in America. I am glad that soon the admirers of the Chinese miracle from the Bolsheviks (although there has never been socialism in the PRC, besides the veneration of Marx), alas, patriots and Russophobes (who would only humiliate the Russian people before anyone) will witness how Trump will strangle the Chinese. They are already in front of the United States for fawning, ready to do anything to reduce duties ...
            1. Hole puncher
              Hole puncher 30 December 2018 13: 13
              +1
              Quote: hrych
              will witness how trump will strangle the Chinese

              Why would he crush them, put in a place on which they will sit sometimes getting hands on ...
              1. hrych
                hrych 30 December 2018 13: 34
                +1
                Quote: Puncher
                Why would he crush them

                They began to build an ocean fleet, namely destroyers and nuclear submarines — ships in the far zone, as well as force projection ships, namely aircraft carriers. What is the challenge of the hegemony of the Atlantists in the territory of Rimland, relying on the water area. Moreover, if the Russian fleet dominates the North, the Chinese challenged the Americans in the southern latitudes. Also, the development of strategic nuclear forces technologies began to threaten American territory. Therefore, nothing can be done with Russia, which has everything with the strategic nuclear forces and the fleet (even if I run into criticism of experienced pirates), especially after achieving a self-sufficient economy, but it is still possible to stop China, first of all, using the complete non-self-sufficiency of the Chinese economy, while the unfinished ocean fleet, while the weak SNF triad. Why did America grow a dragon, it is necessary to strangle a dragon with milk teeth and claws and breathes not with fire, but with sulfur-hydrogen. Therefore, Trump does everything right and on time.
                1. Hole puncher
                  Hole puncher 30 December 2018 20: 14
                  +1
                  Quote: hrych
                  Why did America grow a dragon, it is necessary to strangle the dragon while with milk teeth and claws and breathes not with fire, but with sulfur-hydrogen.

                  As already wrote below "warrior wow" economic methods can not be done. And the United States will not fight China. China's economy is widely integrated into the world economy and without the US market, it can survive. It may not be as rich as it is now, but it can. Go to any store, almost everything except the products is made in China. The United States will not be able to squeeze China out of the markets of Europe, Russia, Southeast Asia, Africa, Central Asia, India ... So all Trump's actions are just an attempt to force China to play by the established rules, nothing more.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 30 December 2018 20: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: Puncher
                    As already wrote below "warrior wow" economic methods can not be done.

                    It is possible, despite the high authority of an expert from Israel, because the PRC is a non-self-sufficient economy, rebuilt specifically for the export of consumer goods to the detriment of agricultural production, as when the PRC was agrarian, the majority of the population fed itself, now this is compensated by the predatory attitude to nature and the import of grub, including ... rice. A cannibalistic demographic policy has overwhelmed society with men, which is fraught. At one time, the West almost strangled Japan with sanctions and it would have collapsed in 4 months, so much oil was left, but attacking the West lasted several years. But, then only nuclear weapons appeared, they were tested on them. Therefore, the Chinese will be strangled with impunity, the party members will fail to attack because they are rich and they have everything, they built communism ... for themselves, and they do not care about the people. Naturally, hunger, the decline of a hypertrophied economy and internal riots and self-destruction shines on them. The same Mao was a romantic, capable of, albeit stupid, but an act, and is ready to lead millions, albeit into the abyss. And now, fat pragmatic cats and hedonists rule. And what do you expect from them? A desperate attack like a samurai? So they do sepuku, when the inversion from overburning wassat
                    1. ruigat
                      ruigat 31 December 2018 03: 35
                      -1
                      Therefore, the Chinese will be strangled with impunity, the party members will fail to attack because they are rich and they have everything, they built communism ... for themselves, and they do not care about the people.

                      You have now described the Russian Federation, one to one, only without science and industry.
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 03: 38
                  0
                  Quote: hrych
                  Why did America grow a dragon, it is necessary to strangle the dragon while with milk teeth and claws and breathes not with fire, but with sulfur-hydrogen.

                  Hrych, you write nonsense. When the Chinese and the Japanese clashed over the islands, the Americans did nothing. So, they screamed a little, and that’s it.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 31 December 2018 04: 09
                    +3
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    When the Chinese and the Japanese clashed over the islands, the Americans did nothing.

                    And with what a fright to the Americans, do something for the Japanese? wassat Something else Americans and the Kuril Islands need to harness.
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    you write nonsense

                    Therefore, stir a little gray matter and you yourself will understand that your nonsense. Moreover, the Japanese fleet is very balanced, well equipped and with excellent combat experience, including Tsushima and WWII, so if necessary, the Japanese will smear the Chinese fleet completely without the USA. They have destroyers with Ajis and KR, as well as 17 submarines of which 12 with VNEU.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 04: 41
                      +1
                      Quote: hrych
                      Not only that, the Japanese fleet is very balanced, well equipped and with excellent combat experience, including Tsushima and WWII,

                      But the number of sailors in China is greater than in the United States, and in terms of tonnage - more than in Japan. wassat
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 04: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        But the number of sailors in China is greater than in the United States, and in terms of tonnage - more than in Japan.

                        And what does it give? More fried meat? wassat
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 05: 34
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        And what does it give? More fried meat?

                        No, it gives the Great Pacific Indonesian Sea Silk Road. The Chinas are slowly squeezing everyone out.
              2. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 30 December 2018 15: 36
                +9
                The Americans cannot hold back China. No matter how hard they try.
                It is impossible to strangle a country with a developed civil technological economy and a high percentage of industrial exports. goods.
                Crush countries that sell energy and raw materials. Since they are the lowest level of the economy and depend on the fluctuation of the markets of industrial countries.
                1. Town Hall
                  Town Hall 30 December 2018 15: 50
                  -1
                  and a high percentage of industrial exports. of goods
                  .



                  What will happen to the economy of a country that is export-oriented and relies solely on cheap labor if it shuts off exports?
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 30 December 2018 16: 05
                    +4
                    Export prom. Consumer goods cannot be blocked. The whole world buys them.
                    Labor in China is not cheap at all. Salaries in factories for several years, as exceeded Russian. And approaching the salaries of Portugal and Eastern Europe. They expand markets through mass production and excellent delivery logistics. China has also become a leader in major infrastructure and construction projects on all continents.
                    1. Town Hall
                      Town Hall 30 December 2018 16: 29
                      0
                      Export prom. Consumer goods cannot be blocked. The whole world buys them.




                      Replace the word Industrial goods with Oil or Gas ....



                      It is very easy to overlap when there is a political decision of the main buyers of Chinese products - the USA and the EU. They are also the main investors in the Chinese economy. To block investments, trading tariffs, exchange rates, sanctions and the widest range of methods to put the economy critically dependent on exports on its knees.



                      As for the cheap labor .... more or less decent salaries, the middle class, etc., all this concerns about 1/3 of the population of China .... the remaining 2/3 (1 yard of souls) are on the verge of poverty. And they are not at all happy with this state affairs. Yes, and prosperous prosperity 1/3-depends on the ability to export products. Closed factories-welfare will end. About the giant debts of China-a separate issue.
                      1. ver_
                        ver_ 30 December 2018 18: 10
                        0
                        ... the number of Chinese is very high ...
                      2. hrych
                        hrych 30 December 2018 21: 04
                        +2
                        What is the middle class? It must be the majority of the population in order to be called average. There, 100-200 million live decently, have a social network and a free education with medicine, a billion people who are interrupted by what. There are more than 400 million - internal Gaster, who fled from the villages, plow in the factories for 12-14 hours a day, live in the underground rooms of Beijing, etc. You listen so quiet and smooth. All this Zyuganov’s defilements will post a fabulous Marcist kingdom wassat
                      3. DymOk_v_dYmke
                        DymOk_v_dYmke 30 December 2018 22: 07
                        -1
                        A video of 8 years ago and about nothing.
                        Is the school in containers paid?
                        Are the teachers in her beggars?

                        PS The builders of the Bratsk Hydroelectric Power Station lived in tents.
                      4. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 02: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
                        The builders of the Bratsk hydroelectric station lived in tents

                        And type is good. The same Bolshevik villains scoffed at people. And the number of internal migrant workers over the years has increased significantly. They will destroy China from the inside, when Trump strangles your beloved Chinese only with trade duties.
                      5. ruigat
                        ruigat 31 December 2018 11: 08
                        -2
                        And type is good. The same Bolshevik villains scoffed at people.

                        Here it is the duplicity of the slaves of the Russian oligarchy. When necessary: ​​"We did it in 1961", "They repeat what we did in 1984." and immediately spit into the past, when the scientific and industrial base for the BREAKTHROUGH 1957-1988 was created.
                      6. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 15: 34
                        +2
                        Quote: ruigat
                        and immediately spit in the past

                        I can not spit, but just defecate. Bolshevnya loved throwing mud into the virgin lands. Moreover, the Gulag people are remembered, but not very enthusiasts, and there was no difference as to the fact that Bolshevik has one attitude to these. Some voluntarily kill, others if they do not want, by force. Therefore, only Bolshevnya will again dare to raise its tail, then we will turn its neck immediately. And who are Gaidars, Lifshits and Nemtsovs, descendants of direct Bolshevny. With Gaidar, and so it is clear, Nemtsov is a relative of Sverdlov, Lifshits is a relative of Unshlikht and so on. Now they have been removed from power, so they are screaming with you against the ruling regime.
                      7. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 03: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        They will close the factories and prosperity will end.

                        Well, they build car factories with us?
                      8. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 04: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Well, they build car factories with us?

                        But it’s nothing that they built a railway road in the USA at the end of the 19 century, for opium wassat And it’s nothing that they buy jet engines from us, and fighter aircraft and air defense systems, and they also have our submarines, as many as 10 Varshavyanks are not acquired in the USSR, but in the Russian Federation. They also buy our spacesuits and space technology. Who is more developed then? Who needs to be leveled and prayed for? What a despicable self-abasement, what a shame. Our Chinese ancestors were gods, but how do you position yourself now. A disgrace. Just a disgrace.
                      9. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 04: 50
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        But it’s nothing that they built a railway road in the USA at the end of the 19 century, for opium

                        You should know that the Chinese accustomed the Chinese opium to smoking, and then invented heroin as a cure for opium. wink
                        Quote: hrych
                        They also buy our spacesuits and space technology.

                        So they have money ... that ... a lot ... But I am offended why Gagarin’s spacesuit hangs in Washington?
                      10. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 04: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        But it offends me why Gagarin’s spacesuit hangs in Washington?

                        And I’ll tell you, let it hang there, so that the children of the dog, who was the first, remember. And let them remember that half of the American space launches on our RD-180 and NK-33, and our avisma makes titanium missile frames for them. Well, when their vaunted astranauts, our Union carries.
                      11. Setrac
                        Setrac 31 December 2018 13: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        So they have money ... that ... a lot ...

                        Yeah, a lot of money, but the mind to make a spacesuit - no.
                        Wealth is not a sign of mind; wealth is a sign of uncountability.
                      12. snake
                        snake 1 January 2019 13: 26
                        -1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Yeah, a lot of money, but the mind to make a spacesuit - no.

                        They made a spacesuit. Done, Seryozha ...
                      13. Setrac
                        Setrac 1 January 2019 15: 14
                        0
                        Quote: serpent
                        They made a spacesuit. Done, Seryozha ...

                        But they fly into space in our ...
                    2. Simargl
                      Simargl 30 December 2018 18: 21
                      -2
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      Export prom. Consumer goods cannot be blocked. The whole world buys them.
                      Who needs - tightens the barrier duty and that's it!
                    3. Setrac
                      Setrac 30 December 2018 23: 10
                      0
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      Export prom. Consumer goods cannot be blocked. The whole world buys them.

                      Will they drive up aircraft carriers and sink all "non-kosher" ships, and how will the Chinese respond? Nothing!
            2. ruigat
              ruigat 31 December 2018 03: 31
              -1
              This is complete nonsense, no one in the six casino will not win, the rules are set by the heads of the casino.

              This is if an entity is not ready to rob a casino, and the PRC is a casino robbing shamelessly.
              In addition to defense, Putin is the only one in the last millennium who has solved the problem of Russian agriculture.

              Aha decided, strangling him in the bud. Have you been to the store for a long time?
              And the Chinese said that they buy rice in America. I am glad that soon the admirers of the Chinese miracle from the Bolsheviks (although there has never been socialism in the PRC, besides the veneration of Marx), alas, patriots and Russophobes (who would only humiliate the Russian people before anyone) will witness how Trump will strangle the Chinese.

              Now everyone sees that it’s not the Bolsheviks, but your masters from the oligarchy of the Russian Federation that oppress and humiliate the simple Russian people, and when other countries are proud of achievements in science and industry, the Russian Federation under the leadership of the oligarchy is proud of laying a pipe.
              1. hrych
                hrych 31 December 2018 03: 56
                +1
                Quote: ruigat
                and China, this casino robs shamelessly.

                What are you saying, but nothing that they have invested all their savings in American securities that no one is buying, especially the United States itself wassat Even Khudzintao complained to Obama that when the Goldmans and Lemons flew into the tube, the PRC lost 300 billion on these papers, but Obams spread his hands and said that the Government was not responsible for private companies. Also, the United States owes the Chinese a trillion, while America forgives its creditors wassat Therefore, the gangster here is completely ... vice versa. wassat but China suffered.
                Quote: ruigat
                Aha decided, strangling him in the bud. Have you been to the store for a long time?

                Yesterday, so what? What did you want to say with your remark?
                Quote: ruigat
                not the Bolsheviks, but your masters from the oligarchy of the Russian Federation are crushing

                Not ours, but yours. Putin dealt with the oligarchs, now, in addition to the defense industry, top managers rule. And not a single country is now socialist, capitalism has triumphed everywhere, and there has never been socialism in the PRC, the most common slave system is there, there are party patricians and slaves, one that instead of the Tsar and God, they glorify Gomsek, or rather the General Secretary and the hairy demon Karl . A pipe then what prevented you? Maybe you're for American LNG. We’re a raw materials appendage, so why does the USA want to take our raw material place wassat Think about it laughing
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 04: 04
                  0
                  Quote: hrych
                  Putin dealt with the oligarchs, now, in addition to the defense industry, top managers rule.

                  Do not make me laugh. We have the Minister of Agriculture - Patrushev.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 31 December 2018 04: 21
                    +1
                    What do you care about agriculture? Don't like self-sufficiency? Do not like that first in the world wheat export? In short, I’m just disgusted with even talking to Chinese fans; they found someone to worship. That's just funny. And the fact that here they post about a great cosmic achievement, but nothing that we did these things 50-60 years ago wassat And what is the practical sense of this show, and I'll tell you - a complete zero. And you also know why the reverse side, yes, because their failure cannot be verified wassat And their tuikunaut’s exit into outer space was fake and the bubbles floated there and there was no blue radiance of the earth’s atmosphere. Spank in our used ear suits and so on. Fiction, I'm talking about whales laughing

                    Okay, it’s still excusable for those who admire the West, but those who admire these short-sighted Maoists simply don’t even know what to call them. Dolboklui - the most innocuous expression came to mind wassat
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 04: 45
                      +2
                      Quote: hrych
                      Do not like that first in the world wheat export?

                      Well, tell me, what class is this wheat. And where did the previous minister go?
                      Quote: hrych
                      Dolboklui - the most innocuous expression came to mind

                      Gee, my Chinese call me to work, collect cars. Salary is bigger than average.
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 04: 51
                        +2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Well, tell me, what class is this wheat. And where did the previous minister go?

                        But I’m not interested. Tkachev the greatest Minister of Agriculture in Russia over the past millennium, under the tsar an agrarian country and periodic hunger, under the Bolsheviks, hunger was constant, okay under developed socialism there was no hunger, so the party’s gold was sent to wheat ... to the Americans. And only Putin's agricultural holdings were able to ensure self-sufficiency and leadership in export performance, so far besides milk, we are buying it ... in Belarus, for me it’s so with our own.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        my Chinese call me to work, collect cars

                        The main thing is not a fake spaceship wassat

                        After all, something significant does meow, such as a small step of a person ... wassat And the Earth is drawn, without atmosphere wassat
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 04: 58
                        +2
                        Quote: hrych
                        But I’m not interested.

                        But I’m interested, because I know how to harvest grain from the age of six, and what it means to collect grain, I know firsthand.
                        Quote: hrych
                        so the party’s gold was lowered to wheat ... to the Americans.

                        Heh, Egorushka Gaidar paid the American agency two and a half million bucks in search of a gold party. Searched, searched, but not found. At comrade The deputies asked Putin about this report. No, the FSB director said. am
                      3. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 05: 03
                        +2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Searched, searched, but not found.

                        You don’t have to look when the enemies lowered the oil to 16 bucks, all the gold went to wheat. We don’t forget that the USSR fed many parasites, and the USSR itself had 14 parasites, as it turned out, and the Russian Federation without a breadbasket and without virgin land was suddenly the first exporter of wheat, the leader in the production of northern cereals, sugar beets, etc., etc. Praise to Chicken God - Onishchenko good
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 05: 09
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        You don’t have to look when the enemies lowered oil to 16 bucks, all the gold went to wheat.

                        And to be more precise, they found the remains of gold. The friends of Yegorushka. Therefore, the report from the Kroll agency was put under the cloth.
                      5. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 05: 15
                        +2
                        The Yegor was tying oil there, so much so that he choked on him to death. The USSR left Russia only debts. The USSR was bankrupt and the same Andropov wanted to drive the people back to the stall because such a system requires some upheavals such as surplus-appraisal, collectivization, industrialization, tearing away, perestroika, acceleration and other abominable experiments that ended with voucherization and privatization. And praise Putin that war is also being carried out by rearmament, including the sanctions war, and the people are paying not with blood, but with a slight deterioration in living standards ... relative to Putin’s times. Therefore, we listen to the wise classic:
                        I saw three kings: the first ordered to take off my cap and scolded my nanny for me; the second did not favor me; the third one, even though he put me in prison for old age, I don’t want to exchange him for the fourth; from good they do not seek good.
                      6. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 05: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: hrych
                        I saw three kings: the first ordered to take off my cap and scolded my nanny for me; the second did not favor me; the third one, even though he put me in prison for old age, I don’t want to exchange him for the fourth; from good they do not seek good.

                        Is it Pushkin or something? Duc he was restricted to travel abroad, so he was offended.
                        Only the plague will sweep me
                        Only frost ossifies
                        Only the barrier slams into my forehead,
                        Unstoppable disabled person ... laughing


                        Happy New Year! drinks
                      7. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 05: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Happy New Year!

                        Mutually drinks
                      8. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 05: 14
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        leader in the production of northern cereals, sugar beets

                        Oh, I didn’t notice. laughing My uncle made a cleaver when he was nine years old, to ride on beets. Chop off the tails. We had a lot of beets, at the Novomoskovskoe industrial production association, but right now we don't have a damn thing.
                      9. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 05: 26
                        +2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Oh, I didn’t notice.

                        Russia ranks first in the world in the production of sugar beets. Russia also ranks first in the world in the production of rye, oats, barley, buckwheat, currants and raspberries, second in the world in the production of sunflower and gooseberries, third in the world in the production of potatoes, carrots, turnips and pumpkins, fourth in the world in cucumber production, fifth place in the world for the production of garlic. Russia is also one of the three leaders in the collection of wild strawberries. Russia is one of the five producers of honey, chicken, pork, fishing. Russia ranks second in the world in the production and export of oilseeds of flaxseed (after Canada, 2016) and third in the world in the production of flax fiber (flax). Such is the statistics. And not to call the Russian Federation a powerful agricultural power would be just silly.
                      10. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 05: 31
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        fifth place in the world for the production of garlic.

                        Is this statistics or what? Spit. Where the fields used to be, weeds grow. At least in our country, in the Tula region. I was in Nizhny Tagil, the same thing. The cowshed collapsed.
                      11. hrych
                        hrych 31 December 2018 05: 55
                        +2
                        But there was no need to develop a village in Tagil, Russia is big, there is the Stavropol Territory and the Kuban, but for some reason we drove people into the risky farming zone and started under tsarism. What for? Well, okay, under the tsar there was a problem with transport, but under the Bolsheviks the road was already railway and motor transport appeared, not supply lines. Therefore, do not look at the weeds of the northern non-black soil. There should not have been sown initially. By the way, the soil also needs to rest, because arable farming is the most important anti-natural muck. Well, agricultural holdings, and again agricultural holdings. This is our everything, with state support and import substitution.
                      12. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 06: 04
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        But it wasn’t necessary to develop a village in Tagil,

                        And I'm not talking about the village, I'm talking about the cowshed. By the way, my brother-in-law grew a cucumber 82 cm in size in Tagil. Uncle plucked it, he was offended, "Dad, I was going to the record!" laughing True, in a greenhouse. We walked home with this cucumber, passers-by were stunned. good
                        Quote: hrych
                        then the road was already railway and motor transport appeared

                        So the merchants asked for it. Reluctant to pay them to the cabmen, so they filed a petition. The train is in any way cheaper than carrying carts.
                    2. snake
                      snake 1 January 2019 13: 39
                      -1
                      Self-sufficiency? Are you seriously declaring this word / term? Space show, huh? Maybe now show the participants in the "breakthrough" mother, overwhelm.?






                      7
                2. ruigat
                  ruigat 31 December 2018 11: 16
                  -3
                  Also, the United States owes the Chinese a trillion, and America forgives its creditors. Therefore, the gangster here is completely ... vice versa. but China suffered.

                  Yeah, here’s the RF, which invests money in mattress wrappers for school music forgiven.
                  Yesterday, so what? What did you want to say with your remark?

                  That most products are produced abroad. Wretched tomato war with Erdogan for the downed Su-24 remember?
                  Not ours, but yours. Putin dealt with the oligarchs, now, in addition to the defense industry, top managers rule.

                  Yes, yes, I dealt with Vickselberg, Sechin, Miller, Deripaska, Chubais and other ghouls. But no, with their employers. You have already become confused by licking the shoes of the oligarchy of the Russian Federation.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 31 December 2018 15: 40
                    +2
                    Quote: ruigat
                    money in mattress wrappers

                    You don’t keep up again, the Russian Federation dropped them and bought a gold coin
                    Quote: ruigat
                    Wretched tomato war with Erdogan for the downed Su-24 remember?

                    But nothing that blew up a bus with elite pilots, but nothing that saved Erdogan from a coup. But nothing that the ruling caste has been destroyed for 100 years since Ataturk, and its leaders are physically. Before the coup, Erdogan was nothing, it was now the Sultan, then everything was decided by the military caste, including a strike on the plane, and not the civil administration. Therefore, since there is no knowledge, then do not go to judge.
                    Quote: ruigat
                    You have already become confused by licking the shoes of the oligarchy of the Russian Federation.

                    Do not judge people by yourself, there in your Ukraine what you said there ... wassat
            3. ROBIN-SON
              ROBIN-SON 31 December 2018 10: 31
              +2
              I agree with you. China is not a leader, but a slave ....
        2. Antares
          Antares 30 December 2018 13: 09
          +2
          Quote: hrych
          The US is not self-sufficient in energy,

          I would argue. They have a lot of energy. And oil production brought them to the first place (August 2018). And enough gas even for export ...
          reports Bloomberg with reference to the monthly statistical report of the US Energy Information Administration, the level of oil production in America in August amounted to 11,346 million barrels per day. In Russia at the same time, the figure was 11,21 million barrels per day.

          They have domestic consumption more than anyone else in the world .. The higher the level of development, the more energy it requires. Although technology provides savings.
          1. hrych
            hrych 30 December 2018 13: 44
            0
            The problem is that the United States is one of the three leaders in production from the Russian Federation and the SA, but for domestic consumption, you need as much. Those. roughly all US and CA production goes to the USA. Therefore, the United States is extremely self-sufficient in the energy source. They have shale gas, but for some reason they bought our LNG. Gas requires logistics, i.e. pipes, liquefaction-liquefaction plants, etc. Apparently, this is still undeveloped and it is easier to send a gas carrier to a certain area. Their houses (like the house of the Simpsons, Griffins, Smiths, Marches, Broflovski, etc.) are heated mainly with fuel oil. And gas, and mainly propane-gas (the king of the mountain), is only for stoves, ovens and barbecue shops. They are also not self-sufficient in uranium fuel in the energy sector, which led to self-disarmament when they dismantled warheads for fuel. For many mineral resources, the US economy is also heavily dependent on supplies. The same agricultural production is now heavily dependent on energy, because the percentage of the population involved in agricultural production has reached a minimum and the absence of fuel and lubricants and other powerful global agricultural exporters, such as the US and the EU, can lead to internal hunger. Therefore, the United States and the EU are forced to fight for oil wells abroad.
            1. Hole puncher
              Hole puncher 30 December 2018 21: 45
              0
              Quote: hrych
              Their houses (like the house of the Simpsons, Griffins, Smiths, Marches, Broflovski, etc.) are heated mainly with fuel oil.

              For the sake of interest, take an interest in which country has the most nuclear power plants. And by the way, the Simpson number you mentioned is working at a nuclear power plant.
              Quote: hrych
              They have shale gas, but for some reason they bought our LNG.

              They have a lot of gas and moreover, they have not developed gas transportation systems because of ecological leaks between the states.
              1. hrych
                hrych 31 December 2018 02: 09
                +1
                Quote: Puncher
                For the sake of interest, take an interest in which country has the most nuclear power plants.

                The fact of the matter is that I know, and therefore I also know who needs an unmeasured amount of nuclear fuel. Or at your nuclear power plant produces it, but maybe it consumes wassat
          2. hrych
            hrych 30 December 2018 14: 21
            +1
            And since Since the USA is mainly a southern country, they spend a lot of energy not on heating, but on conditioning.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 30 December 2018 23: 12
              0
              Quote: hrych
              And since Since the USA is mainly a southern country, they spend a lot of energy not on heating, but on conditioning.

              However, air conditioning can be abandoned; in Russia you can’t refuse heating - justifying it with poverty.
              1. hrych
                hrych 31 December 2018 02: 03
                +1
                When plus 45 degrees you will not refuse, for example in Las Vegas. Refuse and cook. In June and July, the maximum is recorded at 47,2 degrees.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 31 December 2018 13: 17
                  0
                  Quote: hrych
                  When plus 45 degrees you will not refuse, for example in Las Vegas.

                  45 degrees can easily be experienced without loss to health.
                  Quote: hrych
                  Refuse and cook. In June and July, the maximum is recorded at 47,2 degrees.

                  47.2 degrees Celsius - absolutely not enough to cook.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 31 December 2018 15: 43
                    +2
                    You can sit in the bathhouse for 15 minutes, but when the watch comes, a kayuk comes. Probably heard about heat stroke, it occurs when the temperature is around 30 degrees, and then another 15-17 from above. Do you even imagine it?
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 31 December 2018 17: 16
                      0
                      Quote: hrych
                      Probably heard about heat stroke, it occurs when the temperature is around 30 degrees, and then another 15-17 from above. Do you even imagine it?

                      However, this is unexpected. You missed about two dozen degrees. Heat stroke occurs at a certain body temperature and has no relation to the ambient temperature. Hazardous to humans, the ambient temperature of 52 degrees Celsius. A person without risk to health in dry air can spend 1 hour at + 70C, 30 minutes at + 93C.
        3. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 30 December 2018 13: 19
          +1
          Arrives, the poor have a free medical insurance.
          1. hrych
            hrych 30 December 2018 13: 52
            +1
            Obama has done a lot for these insurers and grocery card recipients, in tandem with others, reeling the economy and hitting the middle class, so that the population leaves New York because of the inability to maintain a standard of living. Trump is now starting to win back.
        4. Botanikas
          Botanikas 30 December 2018 19: 10
          +1
          I have to upset you, an ambulance comes to the USA to everyone and they are more than self-sufficient in energy resources, they just introduced a maratorium for the development of their bowels (they protect) and they carry half the world for candy wrappers, screeching ...
          Universal divorce - and everyone is happy!
          1. hrych
            hrych 30 December 2018 20: 53
            0
            Quote: Botanikas
            just introduced a maratorium to develop their bowels (cherish)

            They do not save anything, this is another myth, they also, like OPEC, regulate prices for futures by increasing-decreasing production.
            Quote: Botanikas
            I have to upset you, in the US an ambulance comes to everyone

            Yes, yes, right to Harlem or Detroit, where the police aren't getting into. And the wheels will be removed in place wassat The flood of New Orleans was significant, there the colored gangs provided medical care, well, in their own way wassat
        5. snake
          snake 1 January 2019 13: 25
          -1
          You can even turn inside out. Though along, even across. Yeah. China is not self-sufficient, and the United States is not self-sufficient ...
      2. Awaz
        Awaz 30 December 2018 14: 38
        0
        Russian tourists save the European tour infrastructure ... Even now, when the Russian authorities lowered us below the baseboard, anyway, Russian tourists are very much loved in Europe. At European airports, only Russians and Chinese are in the queues for returning Taxfrey, and approximately equally. It is clear that there is no point in standing there for EU residents. It is clear that the Chinese fly to Rome or Paris longer than the Russians, but the Chinese are 10 times more)) But I wonder how many Russian tourists are in Thailand and how many Germans are there ...
    2. Klingon
      Klingon 30 December 2018 12: 55
      +1
      Then there were other leaders. It was said, it was done. They got onto Venus then, the only unique device of its kind is still melting there. And now there will be no sense until all sorts of Rogozins and others like them. Only they can open their mouths wide open; in this they are masters yes, but they are not capable of more. Sadly all this ...
  5. Mouse
    Mouse 30 December 2018 10: 42
    +2
    and the earthlings will finally see the alien bases ... belay or will not see ... repeat
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 30 December 2018 10: 46
      0
      and the earthlings will finally see the bases of aliens ... or they will not see ...

      They will see ... Optimus Prime ... he waits there for the Chinese for thousands and thousands of years ... when his poor fellow will be dug out of the lunar soil.
    2. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 30 December 2018 10: 52
      +8
      what Earthlings see what they are shown wink

      wassat laughing
      1. Mouse
        Mouse 30 December 2018 10: 54
        -1
        Quote: Rurikovich
        Earthlings see what they ...

        shows Hollywood ... wink
      2. Irokez
        Irokez 30 December 2018 13: 38
        0
        Quote: Rurikovich
        Earthlings see what they are shown

        That’s great you said. It remains for our Earthlings to open their eyes or at least wake up from the sweet sleep of consumerism media and global pseudo-satisfaction. There is a world conspiracy - only they do not see it because they sleep in the pink glasses of this conspiracy.
        1. Consultant
          Consultant 30 December 2018 13: 39
          -1
          Quote: Irokez
          There is a world conspiracy - only they do not see it because they sleep in the pink glasses of this conspiracy

          Reminded:

          If you have paranoia, this does not mean that you are not being watched.

          Nothing personal request
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 30 December 2018 23: 14
          0
          Quote: Irokez
          There is a world conspiracy - only they do not see it because they sleep in the pink glasses of this conspiracy.

  6. ANCIENT
    ANCIENT 30 December 2018 10: 49
    +9
    Well, I can only say to the Chinese, well done!
  7. ded100
    ded100 30 December 2018 10: 56
    -1
    We’ll wait and see what happens. smile
    1. ver_
      ver_ 31 December 2018 15: 02
      0
      ... I have such a feeling that someone puts a minus on neutral comments ...
  8. NordUral
    NordUral 30 December 2018 11: 06
    +4
    We arrived, now in the role of spectators.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 30 December 2018 11: 11
      -4
      Quote: NordUral
      We arrived, now in the role of spectators.

      Say thanks to the Duma (which cuts the budget) that we were generally allowed into the auditorium.
      1. kjhg
        kjhg 30 December 2018 11: 22
        +6
        Quote: Boris55
        Say thanks to the Duma (which cuts the budget)

        Better immediately the father of the founder of United Russia, say thank you - V.V. To Putin.
      2. NordUral
        NordUral 30 December 2018 11: 31
        +7
        Boris! What I would say to this criminal duma, moderators delete, but in vain.
    2. KERMET
      KERMET 30 December 2018 11: 29
      +6
      The viewer, so as not to be bored to look, was given a choice of 20 varieties of sausages and on a personal car on credit
  9. Chicha squad
    Chicha squad 30 December 2018 11: 15
    +12
    Do we have any breakthroughs in the space field over the past at least 10 years? I know about breakthroughs in the skin and in the wallet.
    1. 41 REGION
      41 REGION 30 December 2018 11: 23
      +6
      Quote: Chicha Squad
      Do we have any breakthroughs in the space field over the past at least 10 years? I know about breakthroughs in the skin and in the wallet.

      There are massive thefts at the Vostochny spaceport recourse
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 December 2018 15: 19
      -5
      Radioastron telescope, detonation rocket engine, nuclear power engine - what are the achievements.
  10. rocket757
    rocket757 30 December 2018 11: 20
    +3
    Everything is logical. Someone has a planned development, someone has a systematic stomp on the spot ..... at best.
    The boom is hoping sho is not forever!
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 30 December 2018 11: 33
      +4
      Victor! With these - forever! But I am sure that they do not have long.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 30 December 2018 11: 57
        +1
        Even these evolve, although the pace is such that it is like stomping on the spot as it is.
        The laws of the development of society can be slowed down; for a while, nobody succeeds in canceling.
        This does not please me, but you should not sprinkle ash on your head.
        It is necessary for everyone to study and unite, for the benefit of people, of the country.
        Boom like a pioneer ..... always ready!
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 30 December 2018 12: 59
          +4
          It is necessary for everyone to study and unite, for the benefit of people, of the country. But wake up first!
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 30 December 2018 15: 21
            -1
            You personally, in retirement, have already lied about something you will do for a country of significance.
            1. NordUral
              NordUral 30 December 2018 16: 14
              +2
              Geniuses or too self-confident people claim to be significant. I do not belong to the first or second category, and I soberly assess my capabilities, Vadim.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 30 December 2018 23: 24
                0
                Pensioners are always in service!
                We can never geniuses and excessive self-confidence never suffered! But the boys we taught and teach to live the truth will always know what and how to do it! What is important in life, and what nonsense is not worth the time and effort to spend.
    2. polar fox
      polar fox 30 December 2018 11: 35
      +4
      Quote: rocket757
      Someone has systematic development, someone has systematic trampling on the spot

      Well, why is systematic in place? forward to degradation!
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 30 December 2018 12: 01
        +2
        Our ancestors laid huge potential. Thanks to them for this great!
        Even these failed to ditch everything ....
        It's up to the "small"! Take everything into your own hands and restore its former greatness!
        This is just a dream, how to make a new year! I hope our descendants do not miss, as our generation.
  11. steelmaker
    steelmaker 30 December 2018 11: 34
    0
    I believe that we need space now only for security. Mars, the Moon are all show off, our people are dying more than born. It is necessary to make heaven on earth, and then master the planets.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 30 December 2018 11: 38
      +1
      steelmaker! Paradise is a fairy tale for the weak in spirit. It is time for us to return Stalin's true socialism, one in which the strong reached the heights of creativity, and the weak was confident in his future.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 30 December 2018 12: 11
        0
        Complicated. Too much personal has become and a very vague general, important for everyone at once.
        There are a lot of temptations for everyone, and the important general thing is weighted up with so much negativity, but most have a head spin.
        The powers that be have well learned their lesson, unlike us!
        Divide and conquer .... not invented today, but it works as before.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 30 December 2018 12: 01
      +4
      Yes, but there are two ways. Also, many thought in the 15 century - research in distant waters is not needed. We would have something to keep, to bite a couple of cities / castles from a neighbor well, etc.

      And as soon as the far edge was opened, silver, gold and all sorts of expensive goods were taken, so everyone realized.

      The analogy is straightforward. Space is the peak of technology, many of which drive progress. And if it happens that in the course of space research something breakthrough is discovered (materials, techniques, etc.), then others will be very catching up.

      But in general, all sorts of questions were whether life was on Mars. Is it possible to carry samples from other cosmic bodies more massively? Deep exploration of planets, comets and asteroids. In-depth exploration of the galaxy / galaxies / search for inhabited planets. All this moves science, gives rise to various interesting concepts - but right tomorrow, there is very little chance that they will discover America.
    3. ruigat
      ruigat 31 December 2018 03: 52
      0
      I believe that we need space now only for security. Mars, the Moon are all show off, our people are dying more than born. It is necessary to make heaven on earth, and then master the planets.

      Well, did the oligarchy of the Russian Federation make you paradise on Earth, having scored on space? Rather, a branch of another organization is being created.
  12. steelmaker
    steelmaker 30 December 2018 11: 43
    +1
    The bottom of the ocean, like the island of Monte Cristo,
    like a star in space, there is wealth for the people
    Enough for three hundred years, and maybe forever.
  13. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 30 December 2018 11: 49
    +4
    I wish them success. In early January, Israel is to land its first spacecraft on the moon. But not on the back side, but in the "trodden" laughing location - between Apollo 15 and 16 landing sites
    If the second stage of Falcon-9 does not fail: after the launch of a large Indonesian communications satellite into geostationary orbit, it will have to fly further to the Moon with our "Lunokhodik".
    1. Igor V
      Igor V 30 December 2018 11: 59
      0
      And what, the second stage develops the second space with two satellites on board? what
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 30 December 2018 12: 04
        +1
        The first time this is done. The satellite is heavy, and the moonwalker is small. But to the moon for a long time to cut. Therefore, it is not clear whether it will work out. They took a chance.
    2. thinker
      thinker 30 December 2018 16: 00
      -1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      In early January, Israel must land its first apparatus on the moon.

      Something fell swoop, with the beginning of January.
      The launch was initially scheduled for December 2018. However, due to the technical complications of SpaceX, the launch was moved to 2019 first quarter of the year.

      http://9tv.co.il/news/2018/10/10/262801.html
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 30 December 2018 16: 10
        0
        Yeah. Thank. Checked. The launch was postponed to February 13.
  14. mitrich
    mitrich 30 December 2018 11: 58
    0
    When did our Russian Space Agency, led by the main trampoline, decide to land a Russian man on the moon? I’m afraid we won’t be second there, God forbid third, and then we’ll have to go head to head, with Europeans, Indians or Koreans. But a great place to feed the faithful slaves.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 December 2018 15: 23
      -3
      This landing will cost the budget a trillion rubles - so it’s better not to, it’s full of other costs.
    2. ver_
      ver_ 30 December 2018 18: 47
      0
      ... there weren't the first ones there yet ..
    3. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 03: 55
      0
      Quote: mitrich
      When did our Russian Space Agency, led by the main trampoline, decide to land a Russian man on the moon?

      By 16, like. And by 20 they promised to get helium on the moon. fellow
  15. Lamatinets
    Lamatinets 30 December 2018 12: 09
    +2
    And the Chinese fellows and such an impressive crater, 2.5 tons km. diameter and depth 12 km.
  16. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 30 December 2018 12: 10
    -1
    The weight of the station is 4 tons, the weight of the lunar rover is 140 kg. What, in addition to the stated goals, have the Chinese conceived?
  17. Lieutenant Senior
    Lieutenant Senior 30 December 2018 12: 13
    +3
    This is very cool. Well done Chinese!
  18. 9lvariag
    9lvariag 30 December 2018 12: 13
    +2
    Congratulations to the Chinese engineers working and training.
  19. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 30 December 2018 12: 18
    +6
    It remains only to envy the Chinese. What can Russia boast of? How much oil was extracted and exported to the West and earned dollars? So China on the production and sale of phones has earned even more. And oil production will decline and prices will drop - and then what?
    1. Lamatinets
      Lamatinets 30 December 2018 12: 32
      +4
      Russia can boast of an amazing increase in salaries, the best minister of finance, a budget surplus and, correspondingly, an increase in VAT, a strange regional bureaucracy, a General, a worker in a meat workshop (Zolotov) and the magic leg of Igor Akinfeev
    2. Igor V
      Igor V 30 December 2018 21: 24
      +1
      Quote: 16112014nk
      How much oil was extracted and exported to the West and earned dollars?

      And how many billions of dollars were extracted and exported to the West. They say this year's record is 60 billion. Nabiulin is again the best!
  20. ROBIN-SON
    ROBIN-SON 30 December 2018 13: 15
    +4
    Quote: hrych
    There are 50 million poor people in the USA, i.e. people without medical insurance, and an ambulance doesn’t even come to such people.

    Yeah, then it’s the turn to get the US green card around the equator stretched out. And as for the poor, you’ll leave 100 km from Moscow or St. Petersburg and look. And if you are a TV lover, watch ORT, it is very different from the glamorous channels and does not seem to have the status of a foreign agent.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 December 2018 15: 35
      -5
      More than a dozen times have traveled Moscow - Volgograd, Moscow - Yamal, Moscow - Vladivostok, Moscow - Irkutsk Moscow - Omsk, Moscow - Yekaterinburg, Sochi, Astrakhan, Novosibirsk - I did not see the poor, they can hide artfully. Roads began to be repaired both for cattle and animals on roads and along roads, with each year becoming more and more, as well as not cheap cottages - that’s what I noticed. since 2007.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 31 December 2018 03: 59
        +1
        Quote: Vadim237
        every year more and more it becomes, and also not cheap cottages - that’s what I noticed. starting from 2007 year.

        But in the summer I went to the villages where my grandfathers lived. About every fifth house is a ruin.
      2. ROBIN-SON
        ROBIN-SON 31 December 2018 10: 38
        0
        I agree about the roads, yes, they are building. But to name those roads that were, roads the language does not turn. As for the cottages. Villages in Karelian. A lot of old Finnish houses that entered the earth and rotted.
  21. Reader 2013
    Reader 2013 31 December 2018 10: 35
    0
    In the movies I looked, there transformers all the time ...