Military Review

When people think with their head. An example of a correct ocean patrol ship

294
The joke about something in a healthy person and the same in a smoker becomes a surprisingly metaphor when it comes to patrol ships. About how it looks "Smoker patrol boat"has been said before. Now, as part of a detailed study of someone else's experience, it makes sense to look closely at the “patrol ship of a healthy person.” For comparison.




Speech in this case will go about the ship of the US Coast Guard class «Legend». This is the class of the largest ships in the service of this structure.

History These patrol ships began in the 90-ies, when the command of the Coast Guard came to the conclusion that the naval and aviation fleet in service is hopeless. It must be said that the victory in the Cold War was not easy for the Americans, including at sea. Until the Soviet Union collapsed, the Coast Guard had to be content with very miserable compared with the Navy financing. According to the assessment made in 1993, the 207 of the aircraft and the 93 of the ship did not correspond to the changed threats, were physically worn out, had a high operating cost due to permanent breakdowns and, as a result, had to be replaced. By 1998, the Coast Guard finally decided on their needs, and sent out a request for quotations concerning the new technology to interested companies.

We will not go into details, but in 2002, the consortium Integrated Coast Guard Systems LLC (Coast Guard Integrated Systems LLC), the creature Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin, signed a contract for 20 years, worth 17 billions of dollars. In 2005, the contract was revised, taking into account the new requirements for the Coast Guard, which stemmed from the wars launched by the United States as part of the so-called “Anti-Terrorism”, its value increased to 24 billion, and the maturity date increased to 25 years. The program eventually received the name “Integrated deepwater system program” (“Integrated systems for“ deep waters ”- this is what the US Coastal Defense Administration calls operational areas, further 50 nautical miles from the US coast), or simply“ Deepwater program ”.

The new long-range patrol ship was one of the key points of this program.

The first set of requirements for the new ship was formed in 2002, and in 2004, it was expanded and finally frozen. A year later, the first ship, the Bertholf (Bertolf), was laid down at the shipyard of Ingalls Shipbiuilding (Ingalls Shipbuilding), in the state of Mississippi.

Ships were built quickly. The Bertolf was launched a year and a half after the launch, and 2008 was commissioned in the summer. The remaining ships of the series were built approximately as quickly. The time from laying to launching never exceeded two years, and the full period of construction and delivery from laying to launch did not reach four years, usually remaining within three years and several months.

At the moment, seven ships have already been built and put into service by the Coast Guard - the already mentioned Bertolf, Waesche (Wayshi), Stratton (Stratton), Hamilton (Hamilton), James ("James"), "Munro" ("Munrow"), and "Kimball" ("Kimbell").

In the construction of two more - "Midgett" ("Midgett) and" Stone "(" Stone "). And a couple more ships that do not have names in the order. In this case, the series may increase.

The ships initially had problems. So, on the first three ships of the series, then it was necessary to strengthen the hull, and the Stratton also had problems with corrosion and leakage, which also had to be fixed. In addition, in 2018, Lockheed became involved in the lawsuit for concealing the fact that some of the communications equipment supplied to the Customer was not working as part of the program - the equipment could not send and receive signals simultaneously at different frequencies, although this was stipulated by the contract. Lockheed fixed and paid 2,2 a billion dollar fine. Amusingly, the loss of the corporation for the repair of connected equipment and the amount of the fine were the same.

According to public information, all technical problems on ships are now fixed.

The ship was originally conceived of dual use, and that was how it was created. The design, measures to ensure survivability, hull strength and redundancy of the systems on the ship basically meet the standards of the US Navy, that is, the ship’s warship almost completely complies with the strength and survivability. Only steel is used as superstructure and hull materials. Measures have been taken to reduce the effective scattering area and ship visibility in the radar range.

Initially, it was planned that in conditions of low risk (the enemy is poorly armed and trained, has a small number of coastal patrol ships, and very few anti-ship missiles), the ship will be able to carry out most of the typical US Coast Guard operations and successfully repel attacks against themselves. Operations in conditions of low risk include: self-defense and protection of the entrusted water areas, objects and territories in the theater of operations, escorting ships, protecting ports, intercepting ships at sea. In conditions of medium risk (the enemy is armed with anti-ship missiles, a number of aircraft and submarines, has a network of radar stations and controls the coastal zone), the ship is charged to be able to carry out actions for self-defense, fire at the coast and evacuate non-combatants. In conditions of high risk, where there are chances to be attacked by an enemy with developed and combat-ready armed forces, the ship cannot and should not act in the base case. In this case, in the event of an "emergency", the ship must be able to work together with the ships of the US Navy using the Link-11 tactical data transmission system, which it is equipped with.

The ship has data transmission systems that are fully compatible with those of the US Navy and can operate with them in a single automated control system.

The ship is equipped with:

- AN / SPQ-9A artillery fire control radar (8-10 GHz, range to 20 nautical miles, limitedly capable of detecting air targets at low altitude).

- Radar detection of surface targets and navigation AN / SPS-73 (see range).

- radar detection of air and surface targets 3D TRS-16 AN / SPS-75.

- EW system AN / SLQ-32.

- The optical-electronic sighting system Mk.46 on the first four ships, and the optical-electronic / infrared sighting system Mk.20 on all, starting with the fifth.
- Systems of state recognition and navigation.

- crew protection against weapons mass destruction - radiation, chemical and biological.

- Radar warning system.

- Interference systems SRBOC and NULKA.

Initially it was planned that the ships would be able to install anti-sabotage and anti-mine GAS sometime in the future, in case of war, however, the growth of the terrorist threat forced the US to start a ship modernization program, code-named RESCUE 21 (“21 Rescue”). According to this program, ships will receive data transmission systems that allow tactical information to be exchanged with chiefs of seaports, a GUS capable of searching for mines and combat swimmers will be installed on each ship, all machine guns will be replaced with remote-controlled ones, and their sighting systems will be integrated into the shipboard CES , and the shooting of machine guns will be able to be made by targeting both the radar and the optical-electronic systems of the ship. According to the authors of the modernization program, the presence of GUS will help fight the terrorist threat in the ports, and the automation of machine gun targeting will shoot the boats with suicide bombers going to the ship, including from different directions simultaneously. Some ships have already been upgraded.

In the basic version of the weapon of the ship are: 57-mm automatic gun Bofors Mk.110, with a rate of fire to 220 rounds per minute. The gun has ammunition in the ammunition with a programmable detonation, and can be used against air, surface and limited ground targets. Also, the ship is armed with 20-mm anti-aircraft artillery complex "Falanx", the artillery installation of which is installed on the roof of the helicopter hangar. In addition, the ship is armed with four 0,50 caliber machine guns (12,7 mm) and a pair of 7,62 mm machine guns.

However, it is a peacetime weapon. In the event of participation in hostilities in conjunction with the US Navy, a constructive provision is made for the rapid replacement of the Phalanx installation with RIM-116 launchers Also, the ship can be very quickly equipped with PU anti-ship missiles (astern above the slip), and, according to open sources, “mine warfare”. It is indicated that for this purpose the ship provides for both the appropriate places and the necessary power supply.

Aviation armament of the ship in a typical embodiment is a single multi-purpose helicopter. However, there are two hangars on the ship, and when carrying out anti-terrorist operations, it is envisaged that there are two helicopters on board.

When people think with their head. An example of a correct ocean patrol ship


There is enough space on the ship to accommodate the special forces detachment and various additional personnel, as well as the rescued hostages.

In the near future, a typical helicopter armament will be one helicopter and two vertical UAVs.

Behind the landing area, the ship is equipped with a launching-receiving area of ​​boats, consisting of a deck on which cranes and a short-range boat (optionally two) are located, and a slip in the center of the deck from which the long-range boat is launched . The launch of the boat from the slip and its return is allowed on the move.


Another small boat is on the launch-lift device on the right along the board near the gas turbine ducts.

The US Coast Guard operates without bases around the world, autonomously, and therefore the ship can be at sea for a long time. A normal supply of food on the ship provides autonomy for up to sixty days, and in the transshipment variant up to ninety. Cruising at economic speeds is 12000 nautical miles. The full displacement of the ship in the "military" version - 4600 tons. Maximum speed - 28 nodes.

The economic move of the ship is provided by two MTU 20V 1163 diesel engines, horsepower 9 900. each and the afterburner is a gas-turbine unit with a GTE General Electric LM2500, power 30 000 hp similar to the base turbine on US Navy ships.

Ships are actively used to tackle drug trafficking in the Caribbean, smuggling, guarding US maritime borders, suppress maritime poaching and flag display in potential hot spots, such as the South China Sea, near the border between the territorial waters of South Korea and the DPRK in the Sea of ​​Japan. The Americans do not forget about our country either - at least one ship is regularly on combat patrols in the Bering Sea, and periodically, when the ice situation permits, it makes calls in the Arctic.



Also, the crews regularly participate in joint combat exercises with the US Navy, which work out full-fledged combat missions that can be faced by the ship during a real war, including firing on surface, air and coastal targets, guarding convoys, disembarking special forces, defense naval bases and ports from saboteurs, fighting mines.

By all indications, the combat readiness of the Coast Guard crews in the worst case for them is not lower than that of the crews of the US Navy, but most likely (especially recently) is higher.

Of course, America is a rich country, and in principle everything can afford. However, it must be admitted that similar, and even heavier armed (although, apparently, inferior in electronic and electronic weapons, and significantly in terms of displacement) are ships, for example, in Venezuela, which could never be attributed to the rich countries.

On the part of the Russian Navy, the construction of patrol ships of the 22160 project has been and remains stupid of unprecedented proportions, moreover, due to the material interest of individual participants in this scam. But if it really was necessary to build them, then it would be worth taking an example from the Americans. Well, if someone learn something, then good. Russia has almost all the technologies needed to build such ships, albeit at a slightly lower technological level.

But instead, we have 22160.

Nevertheless, the black bands are not everlasting, and learning from professionals is something good is already right now.


A little painting. Painting by Tom Freeman (Tom Freeman) «High Seas Interdiction». Main character - USCGC Hamilton (WMSL-753)
Author:
Photos used:
United States Coast Guard, Tom Freeman
294 comments
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  1. tlauicol
    tlauicol 28 December 2018 05: 30
    +3
    History: USCGC Mellon (Hamilton class) patrolman in the last years of the USSR was quickly equipped with anti-ship missiles and torpedoes yes
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 08: 00
      +2
      Yes, then, under Reagan, the Americans were seriously preparing to fight with us, and the Coast Guard also taught tactics to its officers, and so on.

      It was so.
    2. Avior
      Avior 28 December 2018 10: 20
      0
      RCC is clearly not at the stern.
      Why torpedoes PLO? Does he have a full-fledged hack or only against mines and saboteurs?
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 28 December 2018 11: 36
        0
        Quote: Avior
        RCC is clearly not at the stern.
        Why torpedoes PLO? Does he have a full-fledged hack or only against mines and saboteurs?

        Put the HAC and standard Mark46, and even tried on a 127mm gun. Why on the nose? - I do not know - Hamilton generally a project of the 60s
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Wedmak
    Wedmak 28 December 2018 06: 15
    +20
    Don't you find it silly to compare a ship with a displacement of 4500 tons with a ship of 1500 tons? Why patrol ship SAM? Xnumx unlike the american has armored a boat and a larger caliber bow gun. And it can also be re-equipped with the Kyrgyz Republic. The lack of container missiles, now there is no reason to blame the ship, the very ability to install modular weapons costs a lot. Unlike the American, whose corresponding place is simply empty. There are also two remotely-controlled grenade launchers DP-65 and two 14,5 mm machine gun mounts MTPU. The base of the helicopter or UAV is provided. And this is with 1500 tons, is it enough for you?
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 28 December 2018 06: 29
      +22
      Alexander wrote an entire article about the fact that it was not worth building a patrolman at all in 1500 tons, but you still did not understand
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 28 December 2018 08: 37
        +2
        that it wasn’t worth building a patrol at all

        Whether it was worth or not worth it was decided not by him / him, but by the RF Ministry of Defense. If they are built with such performance characteristics, then it is necessary and this project was chosen from several for appropriate reasons. Including economic. This is, above all, a patroller, in coastal waters, so that they don’t write, he won’t go to the open ocean. There are larger ships for this.
        but you didn’t understand

        First of all, you should look at the performance characteristics of the ship, and not about what is written.
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 09: 34
          +14
          It was worth it or not worth deciding and deciding not he / him, but the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.


          Not the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, but the Zelenodolsk plant and admiral Viktor Chirkov. Do not confuse.
          1. AllXVahhaB
            AllXVahhaB 28 December 2018 11: 22
            -2
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            and Zelenodolsky Plant and Admiral Viktor Chirkov.

            And who are you lobbying for?
            1. Nestorych
              Nestorych 28 December 2018 12: 48
              -2
              Homeland son!
              1. AllXVahhaB
                AllXVahhaB 28 December 2018 13: 25
                +13
                Quote: Nestorych
                Homeland son!

                Wow, sonny))) For a long time I have not heard this in my address ... Are you far beyond 60 yats apparently?
                The question is not for you, but for the author:
                You are so zealously, categorically drowning one project, putting as an alternative anything and from anywhere ...
                IMHO, of course ... But this only happens in two cases: either something deeply personal, or grandmothers ...
                So that? Have you been kicked out of Zelenogradsk Plant for excessive IQ? Or do you work out someone’s order ???
                Well, a normal person, a specialist, cannot constantly beat his head against the wall in hysterics because of a pair, even if they are useless to anyone, but also do not solve anything ... Or is it because of project 22160 that we finally lost our truncation ???
                How many more articles from you to expect on this burning topic?
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 5 October 2019 10: 24
                  0
                  In general, it’s just that everything really disappeared .... Soon the Albatrosses will die and there will be no one to even ensure the deployment of the strategic nuclear forces, and then it will be fun. By the way, and in the course we haven’t laid corvettes since the 15th, the Impudent Mercury was re-pledged in the spring, with a new by the way a mortgage sign does not count. On it the GEM was not like that.
            2. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 18: 59
              +5
              Common sense and increasing the country's defense
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 28 December 2018 11: 51
            +12
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Zelenodolsk Plant and Admiral Viktor Chirkov

            Well, write an article about the collusion of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy and the plant to them. Gorky, but for one thing about who protected Chirkov, because the commander-in-chief himself plays a small role in approving the state order. Preferably with names, dates and amounts! Because, Oleg (And I very much suspect that your name is Oleg, not Alexander), if you want to praise everything American, you should not blame the Russian admiral! hi
            1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
              Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 28 December 2018 13: 32
              +9
              Sergei hi As for lobbying the interests of the plant to them. In my humble opinion, the author of the article is forcing Gorky. I don’t know the train of thought of our naval commanders, but so far the following trend has been traced:
              First, the armament they had was removed from the auxiliary vessels of the Navy. Then the new auxiliary vessels of the Navy began to design without taking into account the possibility of arming them if necessary (light armament does not count). Then the Navy had a new type of warship - a patrol ship - whose constant armament was actually reduced to one universal anti-aircraft gun, machine guns, grenade launchers and MANPADS. 22160 can be used as ships to support the actions of our special operations forces in the DMZ.
              1. Radar stealth (stealth technology of the hull), because to fight pirates on motorboats, this is a show-off, but at night a jerk to approach the shore with weak border control, go into territorial waters, drop off / pick up a group - that's it.
              2. High speed of the ship itself. Moreover, the ability to maintain maximum speed for a long time (according to the chief designer of the ship in the movie military acceptance). Why to fight against pirates on boats for a long period (day, two) rush at maximum speed?
              3. A regular landing assault boat with a ramp in its nose for landing on shore, but absolutely unnecessary in the open sea for assaulting a ship captured by pirates. Why to fight against pirates, a high-speed means of delivering a sabotage and reconnaissance group to an unequipped coast?
              4. A very large, even for a large combat NK, in terms of size and capabilities medical unit at Ave. 22160. With the ability to have as many 2 operating tables. There is also a large sports hall with a basketball court, on which fighters of special operations forces can train.
              As for large ships, an icebreaking patrol ship, Ivan Papanin, of the 23550 project is being built. Pledged at the Admiralty Shipyards Shipyard in St. Petersburg on April 19 2017 of the year.
              Displacement: about 8500 tons. Autonomy: 60 days. Crew: 60 people + 50 additionally. Armament: one 76-mm gun mount AK-176MA, two 14.5-mm machine guns MTPU. The ship has a take-off and landing pad and a hangar for a helicopter, as well as the possibility of placing the Caliber missile system in a container version.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 28 December 2018 14: 24
                +6
                Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
                First, the armament they had was removed from the auxiliary vessels of the Navy.

                Even during the Union, many helpers lacked weapons and places for its installation.
                Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
                Then the Navy got a new type of warship - a patrol ship - whose constant armament was actually reduced to one universal anti-aircraft gun, machine guns, grenade launchers and MANPADS

                You know, buddy, 22160 is a dark horse for me, and we will learn about all its capabilities in a year through 2-3 after the start of operation. Why do I think so? Why does a patrolman with one gun need 2 anti-submarine GAS ??? I very much suspect that soon besides Caliber, Onyx, Calm and something anti-submarine will appear on them! Well, a modular system will make it possible to have divisions of different purposes as part of the OVR and all in one carrier project.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  28 December 2018 23: 25
                  +5
                  Why does a single-gun patrol need an 2 anti-submarine gas ???


                  There they are not just there, they have nowhere to put them if you do not know. Only towed in a modular design, but you need to either the hemlock or the bulbovoe, otherwise it will not work with the submarine to fight. And there is nowhere to put them.

                  You have been deceived by someone like.
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 29 December 2018 07: 43
                    +2
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    You have been deceived by someone like.

                    Spring will come, snowdrops will come out!
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      29 December 2018 19: 27
                      +3
                      Gygy.

                      I saw a photo of these troughs on the stocks along the entire length. No GUS, no fairings for them, and nowhere to embed them with such contours.

                      So the "snowdrops" have already come out. And in the spring they stink so much that everyone who stood by at least once would feel terribly ashamed.

                      Except for those who sawed on it, of course.
              2. storm
                storm 2 January 2019 23: 41
                0
                "Trough" is large, and there is no air defense at all.
                at least Broadsword / Palm on a helicopter hangar installed .....
            2. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 01
              +2
              Chirkov was not the main figure in these matters. I will not poke a finger at these people in the open. They will not overturn it even once, and I may have a sudden attack of ischemia with a fatal outcome.

              I will do a little differently. Slowly.
              1. venik
                venik 28 December 2018 22: 02
                -1
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                and my lethal ischemia attack can suddenly happen.

                ========
                Ah ah ah!!! Such a gallant Marine (or Marine Special Forces) is suddenly afraid of "evil chekists" ...... request
                1. timokhin-aa
                  28 December 2018 23: 26
                  +2
                  I’m not afraid of security officers, but it’s not the security officers who come, but frankly, their opponents.
                  1. 3danimal
                    3danimal 14 January 2022 23: 42
                    0
                    not Chekists at all, but, frankly, their opponents.

                    Elusive CIA saboteurs?
                    Or former colleagues of the mentioned security officers on free bread (in the role of hitmen) in the service of those whom you are in no hurry to point your finger at?
              2. Serg65
                Serg65 29 December 2018 07: 40
                0
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                I’ll not poke a finger at these people

                That is one blah blah blah ??? Rating tighten?
                1. timokhin-aa
                  29 December 2018 19: 27
                  +1
                  There is a bad example before my eyes.
          3. Bobik012
            Bobik012 28 December 2018 14: 32
            +2
            As far as I understood from the words of the author, a boat of 1500 tons is similar in capabilities to a trough of 4500. This prevents the author from sleeping soundly. Sick person.
            I wonder how many 22160 can be built at the price of one?
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 02
              +1
              Well, where I wrote that the shameful trough of the 22160 project is similar in combat capabilities to something? It was not a citizen, it is the voices in your head, not me.
          4. Wildcat
            Wildcat 28 December 2018 22: 31
            +3
            hi
            A good article, interesting in comparison to "hardware", put a plus. And, judging by the number of comments, the people are offended by this topic.
            When the author gets to the most - most "Suitcases without handles. The Navy buys a series of useless ships" - my favorite "communications ships" or simply "yachts" (which even do not carry a machine gun), it will be funny to look at the defenders of these "projects".
            winked
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 23: 27
              +1
              Yes, that's thinking, yeah smile
              1. Wildcat
                Wildcat 29 December 2018 00: 52
                0
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Yes, that's thinking, yeah smile

                hi
                ... well then I'll throw it on the fan again. I just don't like these ships with proletarian malice, for the furniture, VIP standards and teak am .
                And a trifle yacht-boat MVDshnu not to forget !!!
                "1. Piece 6, stotonniki:
                "Project 21270" Burevestnik "of a service and crew boat was developed at the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau." Burevestnik ", formally called" a service crew boat of project 21270 ", is actually a luxury motor yacht Purpose: service patrols of the Navy command and accompanying persons, reception of parades, delivery to the ships of the highest command personnel standing in the roadstead.
                The boat is equipped with equipment manufactured in Holland, Italy, France, Norway, Finland, Great Britain, Germany, USA, Australia. The determining factors in the choice of suppliers of marine equipment were the compact size and weight, as well as product quality. The main power plant is manufactured by MTU / Germany /. In order to achieve the quality of the finish of the case corresponding to the VIP standards, a large amount of putty-painting work was carried out using imported materials. Superior furniture for VIP-rooms / wheelhouse, salon, study, bedroom / finished with natural mahogany veneer.
                Source: http://bastion-opk.ru/project-21270/ OVT "WEAPON OF THE FATHERLAND" AVKarpenko "
                2. Several units (how much?) For 400 tons, and also "intended for the delivery of expeditions, inspectors and command personnel to the ships standing in the roadstead and for the deployment of command in the exercises." Source: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/1388n/ VTS "NEVSKY BASTION" AVKarpenko "".
                3. A few pieces about 1000 tons:
                "The replenishment of the" yacht "fleet of the Russian Navy continues. Https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2924420.html"
                4. Apparently, the flagship what 7500
                VOEVODA:
                https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3267818
                "Several interlocutors of Kommersant in the industry believe that in appearance (the image of the future ship is published on the official website of Yantar), the ship looks more like a yacht than an emergency rescue ship." There are no cranes, no crane beams - nothing. " , - one of the interlocutors of Kommersant is surprised. "This, of course, is a yacht - this is definitely perfect. Obviously, it is intended for cruises in the northern seas, "another source of Kommersant is sure.
                "In terms of architecture and the described functionality, this vessel is more reminiscent of the now popular Expedition Yacht type. The picture shows all the characteristic attributes. The design, though very utilitarian, does not match a full-fledged yacht for a private customer, but perhaps it was done on purpose. , there is every reason to believe that the true purpose of the vessel does not meet the stated goals, and it will be used for the specific needs of very high-ranking government officials, "says Alexander Bogdashevsky, director of Ameta LLC, which specializes in the construction of low-tonnage yachts for private customers."
                Appearance:
                https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2891392.html
                Well, you need a little, to 188 million, residential blocks to finish. And about the tick, do not forget the tick ...
                http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/publ ... oenie.info
                https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3339917.html"
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 29 December 2018 07: 46
                  +1
                  Quote: Wildcat
                  Just with proletarian anger these ships do not like

                  laughing About the proletarian floor you strongly said !!!!!
                  1. Wildcat
                    Wildcat 29 December 2018 12: 16
                    +1
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Quote: Wildcat
                    Just with proletarian anger these ships do not like

                    laughing About the proletarian floor you strongly said !!!!!

                    hi
                    You see, I am not "against" yachts in general, and perhaps even "for" wink Of course, when it's all organized yes
                    https://www.litres.ru/nastya-rybka/dnevnik-po-soblazneniu-milliardera-ili-klon-dlya-oligarha/
                    (disclaimer: by clicking on the above link, the newcomer assumes full responsibility for what happens to him after reading this opus on the topic "Yachts and ....").
                    and not when it looks like a steamboat on which food and drink have been loaded. request
                    However, I am opposed to the fact that at a time when there are few normal warships built, ships more like "river-sea" are sent to the BS in the Mediterranean, when the construction time of normal ships "goes to the right" - "communication ships" are being built very quietly. and not a small series by our standards, and on these, ...., ships raise the naval flag and they serve as naval sailors - "also a service."
                    Apparently, the Ministry of Internal Affairs also has (the Ministry of Defense is not the most "special"), and the rest of the silovikov too, only the rest have better hidden ones.
                    It is also clear that all this "yacht fleet" is for those who have "lower chimney and thinner smoke", and no one can entrust the production of a yacht for top officials in the Russian Federation. We hammer into any search engine "presidential yacht Russia" and enjoy.
                    How are the leaders of the Big Seven without military yachts, I can’t imagine? laughing Beggars chtoli and suckers? lol
                    In general, proletarian malice for yachts appears, but I will try to calm her down a bit over the New Year holidays! repeat drinks
                2. Narak-zempo
                  Narak-zempo 29 December 2018 11: 25
                  -5
                  Quote: Wildcat
                  It’s just that I don’t like these ships with proletarian malice, for furniture, VIP standards and teak

                  This is envy, dear. Need medical help. Stop peeping how others live and counting money in someone else's pockets. Engage in business, find a normal job or other source of income, pull yourself up materially - and you will be much calmer to watch how wealthy people arrange their lives.
                  1. Wildcat
                    Wildcat 29 December 2018 12: 44
                    -1
                    Quote: Narak-zempo
                    Quote: Wildcat
                    It’s just that I don’t like these ships with proletarian malice, for furniture, VIP standards and teak

                    This is envy, dear. Need medical help. Stop peeping how others live and counting money in someone else's pockets. Engage in business, find a normal job or other source of income, pull yourself up materially - and you will be much calmer to watch how wealthy people arrange their lives.

                    You see, to my regret it turned out that yachts, whether sailing or motor, are not mine (it is possible that the attitude will change with age, but it is unlikely). All these entertainments, especially "come on, just 10 days, at the same time pass for a certificate of" what a coastal one "" looks strange to me like a vacation repeat . I need silence, peace and something good to read yes , although the view outside the window can sometimes be changed (and sometimes for someone at the bar to dance laughing ).
                    I am also forced to note that budget money is not someone else's money, as M. Thatcher, an experienced person in such matters, said, "there is no" public money ", there is only taxpayers' money." And the money that goes as safety expenses is not the money that should be spent on yachts.
                    Special thanks to you for warm wishes for the New Year! I’m sure to get down to business, find a normal job and sources of income, pull myself up financially (even more? And so I damn well know when and how much, I didn’t want to ... I just made repairs in the new apartment ... I wanted to go on a big vacation again to dump ... okay, I’ll do it repeat). And I wish you happiness, health, more money and "make your dreams come true"!
                    hi
                    1. Narak-zempo
                      Narak-zempo 29 December 2018 12: 52
                      -2
                      Quote: Wildcat
                      I also have to note that budget money is not someone else's money

                      Budget money ceases to be "your own" for you at the time of tax payment. And the moment this money is appropriated by someone who has access to the budget, they become completely alien to you. It's just that this "someone" got a better job, yes. And his source of income is reliable, and, quite likely, does not require to give all the best and not get enough sleep.
                      As the saying goes, in our time it’s not a shame to steal, but to be poor.
                      1. bk0010
                        bk0010 29 December 2018 21: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Narak-zempo
                        It's just that this "someone" got a better job, yes.
                        And it should be hung.
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 1 January 2019 22: 13
              +2
              Quote: Wildcat
              A good article, interesting in comparison to "hardware", put a plus.

              But what is she good at? There are near-minded people who compare the heavy T5 with the average T-34.
              In this article, the author compared the "frigate" with the "corvette" and was surprised - "but they are different."
      2. Newone
        Newone 28 December 2018 09: 32
        +1
        The author wrote the article, only here the tasks there for the patrol ship of the Russian Federation are far-fetched.
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 09: 35
          +4
          Please please with correct information about the tasks for the patrol ship.
          1. Newone
            Newone 28 December 2018 10: 03
            +1
            , Pilotage of ships in the Gulf of Aden does not include 100% of these tasks. But anti-sabotage, for example, the protection of fleet bases is included.
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 11: 34
              +3
              So for this there are enough pairs of stationary gas and boats. Any handicraft Tethys hits swimmer with at least 500 meters. Why to this all also 1500 ton ship? !!
              1. venik
                venik 28 December 2018 22: 38
                +1
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                for this, a couple of statsmonar ASGs are enough and boats.

                =======
                You, accidentally not those "anti-submarine boats" whose idea the other day at the VO promoted in view of you mean ??? As I read it, I whinnied for so long !!! (It was necessary to come up with such a thing !!! lol )
                1. timokhin-aa
                  28 December 2018 23: 28
                  +2
                  Remind you how you fucked up with "how to shove it all into a 400 ton ship" laughing ?

                  And together porzhem.
              2. Newone
                Newone 29 December 2018 22: 52
                +2
                Timokhin, the anti-sabotage struggle is not limited to the fight against combat swimmers.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  30 December 2018 13: 29
                  0
                  For a ship with a pair of anti-sabotage grenade launchers - limited. Well, maybe even saboteurs are crazy and will use the boat. Then another boat can be caught up by helicopter.

                  All.

                  But for this it is not necessary to fence a separate ship for 6 yards of money.
                  1. Newone
                    Newone 30 December 2018 17: 06
                    0
                    1. The most successful attacks of saboteurs on the water were carried out with the help of speedboats.
                    2. Helicopter 22160 will also cope. As with multiple boats
                    3. 22160 convoy function is not the only one.
                    4. That's exactly why you do not need to fence a separate ship - for anti-piracy actions that threaten 3-countries on the competitor route.
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      30 December 2018 17: 56
                      +1
                      1. The most successful attacks of saboteurs on the water were carried out with the help of speedboats.


                      Yes? Prince Borghese laughs in your face. And not only he, thousands of them.
                      I will give you a hint - they don’t write about the most successful in the press, because it is not known who executed them.

                      4. That's exactly why you do not need to fence a separate ship - for anti-piracy actions that threaten 3-countries on the competitor route.


                      To Admiral Chirkov with this. He is now a civilian, Rakhmanov’s advisor on opening the doors to the Ministry of Defense. Call, discuss)))).
                      1. Newone
                        Newone 30 December 2018 18: 13
                        0
                        I did not exactly put it. Modern successful attacks.
                        And just against the sabotage methods of Prince Borghese (scuba divers with means of rapid movement under water) 22160 protects very well.
                      2. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 20: 55
                        0
                        So with modern the same story. Although sometimes it turned out very well on boats, especially on the coast of the Azov Sea in 2014, when the border points were carried out on the coastline, but there firstly people were really special, and secondly, the enemy had something like 22160 it would not have saved him.

                        22160 protects from saboteurs-sailors only as much as "Ariadne" is able to detect combat swimmers.

                        By itself, the scheme to detect swimmers with a mini-GAS and to work on them DP is quite working, and even good, only a ship with a displacement of 1500 tons is not required for this. And spending 36 billion rubles - too.

                        Do you at least understand that two sawing projects - 20386 and 22160 in total "ate" as many warships as they are now in service at the Pacific Fleet ?! This cannot be justified by anything at all!

                        36 yards for 22160, 30 yards for Severnaya Verf for 20386 and unknown yet to me, but for sure comparable expenses for R&D in 20386 that passed through the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau, as through the lead executor of R&D, this is about a brigade of 20380 corvettes. And they can shoot down planes and search for submarines, attack surface ships, fight off torpedoes launched by the enemy. In light of the wild strengthening of the same Japanese right now, a brigade of not the most charged, but quite combat-ready corvettes in the same Pacific Fleet would be much more appropriate than a bed of sawing ships.

                        These games can cost us a lost war, do you understand it?

                        By the way, I recently read a surprisingly suitable nickname for 22160 - "Bum-Corvette". Very relevant in my opinion. ((
                      3. Nemchinov Vl
                        Nemchinov Vl 30 December 2018 22: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Do you at least understand that two sawing projects - 20386 and 22160 in total "ate" as many warships as they are now in service at the Pacific Fleet ?! This cannot be justified by anything at all!
                        Stop, Alexander! Let's subtract 30 billion, on the project 20386, and with this "waste to nowhere", and here no one disputes. But as they say - "flies separately, - and cutlets separately !!". Now 36 billion for 6 units - 22160, is there another question ?! drive to the Gulf of Aden (or use for escorting sea ships and vessels) warships of the type BOD 1155, combat fr. 11356 Р / М (or as it was already once with "Peter the Great"), or such as 22160, there is still a question - "which is cheaper", and does not detach warships from operational actions as part of the operational Mediterranean squadron ?! And "protection of naval bases and water areas in order to warn of an attack by various enemy forces and equipment", well, if about Tartus, and what may appear by analogy in the Mediterranean.
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        36 yards for 22160
                        , Specify Alexander, for 6 - units !! And then compare with
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        it’s about 20380 corvette brigade. But they and planes can shoot down and search for submarines, attack surface ships, and repel torpedoes fired by the enemy. In the light of the wild reinforcement of the same Japanese right now, a brigade of not the most charged, but quite combat-ready corvettes at the same Pacific Fleet would be much more appropriate than a row of saw ships.
                        No, no, - Alexander, be honest, and tell everyone how much "extra money" was wasted when the Navy ordered 6 corvettes 20380 and 2 corvettes 20385 from the Northern Shipyard (but these, though expensive, are not that much "legally incapable") instead of 11661-K (E) ?! At least 5-6 extra billion, per unit when ordering each 20380, and 9-10 extra billion, per unit when ordering 20385?! TOTAL?! In whose favor did these 40-55 go billion?! where does your fight go
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        with a bed of saw ships.
                        ?! I remind you about
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        it’s about 20380 corvette brigade. But they and planes can shoot down and search for submarines, attack surface ships, and repel torpedoes fired by the enemy.
                        almost all exaggeration. (It seems that earlier we discussed in detail both the limited functionality of the "expensive Redut air defense system", and the limited capabilities of the PLO pr. 20380, is it worth repeating?) By the way, the above (a very approximate amount of 40-55 billion) is one and a half (and with large-scale construction) almost 2 frigates 22350, which would be so useful to the Pacific Fleet ... What are you glad for - Alexander ?! Or simply "continue to wet to order 22160 " ?! Is it worth it ?!
                      4. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 22: 27
                        0
                        No, no, - Alexander, be honest, and tell everyone how much "extra money" was wasted when the Navy ordered 6 corvettes 20380 and 2 corvettes 20385 from the Northern Shipyard (but these, though expensive, are not so "incompetent for its intended purpose ") instead of 11661-K (E) ?!


                        They have Ukrainian GEM if that. And air defense is incomparable even with 20380.
                      5. Newone
                        Newone 30 December 2018 18: 18
                        0
                        And I don’t know the motives of Admiral Chirkov, but the result was, in my opinion, a pretty good boat suitable for the numerous and varied needs of the Black Sea Fleet, and if necessary also the Caspian, Baltic and with the known limitations of the Northern Fleet.
                      6. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 21: 18
                        0
                        Well, let's. I am now throwing at you real, not fictitious tasks for ships BMZ 2nd rank, subclass "Corvette".

                        1. Anti-submarine defense in the waters near sea bases and important narrow areas. It is solved by systematic search for enemy submarines in a given area and its immediate attack upon detection. It is carried out in conjunction with anti-submarine aircraft, using anti-submarine helicopters deployed on board, FOSS facilities and crewless boats also aboard the corvette.

                        2. Protection of airborne troops from air attack, surface ships and submarines of the enemy at the crossings and during the landing of troops. It is solved by continuous observation of the air, surface and underwater situation and the immediate opening of fire on any enemy target detected. It is carried out together with anti-submarine and fighter aircraft.

                        3. Protection of supply convoys from air attack, surface ships and enemy submarines at crossings. It is solved by continuous observation of the air, surface and underwater situation and the immediate opening of fire on any detected target. It is carried out together with anti-submarine and fighter aircraft.

                        4. Fire support of the landing force by conducting artillery fire along the coast at the request of ground forces. Similarly, the fire support of the ground forces operating in coastal areas. It is carried out together with assault aircraft.

                        5. Preventing enemy targets from attacking targets in territorial waters, in the territory of the Russian Federation and in any other protected area. It is solved by attacking and defeating the enemy surface ships found. It is carried out jointly with assault (fighter-bomber) aviation and coastal missile systems, in some cases, with coastal artillery or anti-submarine aircraft armed with anti-ship missiles.


                        What does 22160 normally do?
                      7. cyberspace
                        cyberspace 4 January 2019 17: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        tasks for ships BMZ 2nd rank, subclass "Corvette".

                        The tasks of the corvette are clear, but I can’t understand the second article, why do you cut the tasks of the corvette to the guard?
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 28 December 2018 07: 48
      +3
      Quote: Wedmak
      the very ability to install modular weapons is worth a lot.

      And what does it look like?
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 28 December 2018 08: 41
        +3
        Well, actually, and the film was about him. Instead of the assault boat, the necessary containers are put.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 28 December 2018 08: 50
          +6
          Quote: Wedmak
          Instead of the assault boat, the necessary containers are put.

          This type such as, for example, stand on the base of the tank, concrete mixer, truck, etc.
          Vasya arrives on a dump truck, they tell him, Vasya, take off your crap, put a truck crane, tomorrow you’ll go to cover the roof. And come on, remember what leverage you need to press there. So what? And the rest of the equipment is still dead weight?
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 28 December 2018 08: 56
            +6
            What is the rest? If I’m not mistaken, instead of the boat, two containers are placed with the same RCC Club, they are autonomous in management.
            And then remember, I don’t understand your sarcasm. They will put the air defense system on the legend, the American Vasya will also remember what and how to click here? Do you want to say that now these air defense systems are lying on the American shore with a dead weight?
            Why are you asking provocative questions about 22160 and not asking the same questions about Legend?
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 28 December 2018 09: 18
              +1
              Quote: Wedmak
              Why are you asking provocative questions about 22160 and not asking the same questions about Legend?

              I'm just asking. And that legend is also modular? In addition to Caliber on 22160, they also promised something else.
        2. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 09: 39
          +8
          Do not confuse warm and soft. Not instead of an assault boat, but into a special compartment above the assault boat slip. The boat fits there at the same time as the containers. At the same time, the height of the slip was cut to its almost complete (and the boat's) uselessness, and the modular weapon for this trough exists only in the form of exhibition models. And even if there were, during the rolling and pitching "Caliber" from such a small platform would not be launched.

          You forgot about it on TV to say.

          Do not comment on what you do not understand even at the everyday philistine level.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 28 December 2018 11: 54
            +1
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Do not comment on what you do not understand even at the everyday philistine level.

            Do you understand Oleg?
            Can the Americans launch from their module, but do the Russians lack the thunder?
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 04
              +3
              I'm not Oleg)))

              The Americans had PU Tomahawks, similar in some ways to our container, at least in size and the fact that the missiles also rose.

              Here only to remind you on which ships of these launchers were displaced by displacement?
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 29 December 2018 08: 23
                +1
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                to remind you on what displacement ships these launchers were placed?

                laughing Yeah! And for one, remind me, the old collective farmer, at what displacement the ship can use its weapons when the sea is agitated with above 5 points and which CAN NOT!
                Oleg, all your articles are intended for lovers and, more recently, for lovers of a country called RUSSIA, and I, as an old collective farmer, want to wish you ... no, not success in your hard work ... I wish you to get rid of stereotypes in the New Year and I especially wish GOOD to settle in your soul!
                Good luck to you hi
                1. timokhin-aa
                  29 December 2018 19: 31
                  0
                  You are mistaken about me. And much.
          2. Wedmak
            Wedmak 28 December 2018 12: 28
            -1
            At the same time, the height of the slip was cut to almost complete uselessness (and the boat)

            Why do you think that it is useless? Who in their right mind, with great excitement, will open a slip?
            And even if there were, with the rolling and pitching of the "Caliber" from such a small platform, you cannot launch it.

            First, why such a conclusion? Secondly, will the American launch? Something, too, I doubt it. Even with a greater displacement of the American, it’s not a fact that it will turn out.
            Thirdly, if you already decided to pour mud on 22160 out of the blue, then you should compare them with ships of the same dimension. Issue such an article! And let's see whose project is better. For some reason, I’m sure that foreigners will stand aside in terms of armament and applicability.
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 08
              0
              Who is in his right mind with a big excitement will open the slip?


              During the last tests of "Bykov", no one except Trident's testers was able to drive the DSL into a slipway, even in the absence of excitement. So, speaking of the convenience of this ship.

              Foreign OPVs do not carry modular weapons. The rest is about the same - cannon, several machine guns, a helicopter, a pair of boats.
              Westerners do not have DSHL, because they cannot be launched into the water and not taken back. So why is she?

              Best of all, Damen builds such ships.

              Only the Russian Navy does not need them at all.

              If you want to see a decent Russian patrolman, take a look at the 22100 project. More or less is what is necessary in our BMZ, and most importantly - they are used by the FSB, and not the fleet.
          3. venik
            venik 28 December 2018 22: 41
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            when rolling and pitching, the "Caliber" cannot be launched from such a small platform.

            ==========
            And I still think - HOW are they launched from "Buyans" ??? "Mosfilm cartoons" probably ??? wassat
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 23: 30
              +1
              Well, they only launch it once from calm water, plus the height of Buyan-M is smaller, the amplitude of the swing of the UCSC is incomparably lower than it should be when the lifted TPK is raised from the high deck.
    3. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 08: 01
      0
      It does not seem to be because having 1500 tons of VIs to perform patrol tasks in the ocean is impossible. Read the article on the link, there is the topic of displacement, pitching and assault assault spoon fully disclosed.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 28 December 2018 08: 39
        +10
        You clung to the word "ocean", although in terms of performance characteristics the ship has never been of this class. Well, you can see it by the tonnage. An ordinary patrolman, well armed by the way. But the United States has just a rather large ship, which is only called a patrol ship. The most natural excursion frigate - if you put all the planned weapons on it.
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 09: 40
          +2
          Yeah, that's just the ugly bottoms even for him to give in order to at least somehow go along the high wave and not roll over. Why is it interesting?
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 28 December 2018 12: 33
            +3
            Well, you’re directly oppressing no longer embarrassed - both the project is bad, and the contours are ugly and in general ... In general, we still have seas, storms are not uncommon. Even the Caspian can riot hoo. That's why they made contours like big ships. However, TsAGI certainly put a hand to the case, so where can we judge the contours?
            By the way, American ships generally resemble square, whipped up ships, such as what was in the warehouse, they put it on.
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 10
              +1
              In coastal seas, patrolling is the job of the FSB. In law. Follow the link to the article about 22160, which contains legislation. The fleet has nothing to do there. That is why we had to be puzzled by "Antipiracy".
              1. venik
                venik 28 December 2018 22: 48
                0
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                In coastal seas, patrolling is the work of the FSB.

                ========
                The work of the FSB is the protection of the state border (including - the maritime border - it is usually 12 miles from the coastline) ....
                1. timokhin-aa
                  28 December 2018 23: 31
                  -2
                  Vladimir, I know that you see the letters, but you cannot put them into words. No need to prove it a hundred times.
            2. venik
              venik 28 December 2018 22: 46
              0
              Quote: Wedmak
              Well, you’re directly oppressing no longer embarrassed - and the project is bad, and the contours are ugly and in general ...

              ========
              And why will they be surprised ?? The respected author (Alexander (or is it Oleg ???) - like a grumpy wife - "There are 2 opinions - MY and Incorrect"! laughing
      2. Snail N9
        Snail N9 28 December 2018 08: 43
        +3
        I agree: a platform of 1500 tons of displacement can not even come close to a platform of 4500 tons. Those who made the decision to build such "patrol ships" (with such a small displacement), they probably saw from their offices that these ships would carry the "coast guard" .... in Gelendzhik Bay ... wink
        1. Dimonk
          Dimonk 30 December 2018 03: 17
          +1
          Her, not Gelendzhik Bay, and Sochi cottages, then good
      3. Oden280
        Oden280 28 December 2018 09: 01
        +7
        And why should a ship intended for border protection go into the ocean? For our border seas, its seaworthiness is enough for the eyes. As well as the ability to quickly change weapon classes, which the mattress ship is deprived of in principle.
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 09: 41
          +2
          Borders are guarded by the FSB; this is not part of the tasks of the Navy. Read the laws.
          1. Newone
            Newone 28 December 2018 11: 21
            +5
            Borders guarded by the FSB. Naval base fleet. Convoys to Tartus, for example, are being carried out by the fleet. Direct support of the landing is carried out by the fleet. Counteracts the landing fleet. Squeezes the submarine of the probable enemy fleet.
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 10
              +5
              Marine base-fleet. Convoys to Tartus, for example, conducts the fleet. Direct support for the landing is carried out by the fleet. It counteracts the landing force fleet. Squeezes submarine probable enemy fleet.


              And what of this 22160?
              1. Newone
                Newone 30 December 2018 17: 11
                0
                Anything can. With additional installable weapons sets available.
            2. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 5 October 2019 10: 33
              0
              Have you heard about the responsibilities of the FSB FS to protect the EEZ?
      4. Alex_59
        Alex_59 28 December 2018 09: 29
        +9
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        It does not seem to be because having 1500 tons of VIs to perform patrol tasks in the ocean is impossible. Read the article on the link, there is the topic of displacement, pitching and assault assault spoon fully disclosed.

        I have a question for you. In Soviet times, 90% of the ship's composition of the MCH PF consisted of small-sized ships. These are projects 205P, 1124P, 10410, 133.1, 1496, 201, 125A and others. There were no Bertholf-class ships in the MCHPF. Only at the end of the union's existence, a large PSKR of project 1135.1 appeared. At the same time, the basis of the MCHPF, which consisted of ships of the dimensions of a boat, a maximum of a corvette, somehow carried service and constantly carried out border protection. You say that it is impossible to carry out patrol tasks with a displacement of less than 1500 tons, but the MCHPF of the USSR somehow did it! Moreover, the conditions in which the MCHPV ships operated were, although coastal, but very, very "oceanic" in terms of climate and weather, since storms, rains, high waves, icing - all this oceanic wealth is quite available in the Far East and North ( and partly in the Baltic) almost 10 months a year. The question arises - how did the MCHPV of the USSR deal with this? Not having patrolmen with a displacement of more than 1500 tons? Or they could not cope and the available forces of the MCH were for formality? (I strongly doubt the latter, since the KGB is a serious organization)
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 09: 46
          +4
          The nature of their tasks was completely different than during long-distance operations. And the enemy is different, in most cases - poachers.

          And they talked like hoo-hoo, but they just had to patrol, sometimes firing a cannon at relatively defenseless ships.

          Questions of the release of hostages, the assault of high-borne ships, the delivery of those arrested beyond thousands of kilometers, the carrying out of surgical operations on board, etc. MCH PV was absent and absent now.

          Take for example the Far East with their 97P. The intruder refuses to stop the course, they cause An-72P, he extinguishes him with rockets and that's all. As a result, they have enough nodal move 12. And how to do it in the Indian Ocean?

          I wrote for a reason that 22160 should be redone in the PCNR and given to the FSB - they would be attached there more or less.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 28 December 2018 10: 04
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            And chatted them hoo like
            But they did not lose their combat effectiveness from this? Purely technically. This means that a ship with a displacement of 1500 tons (2-3 times more than a typical PSKR) should also be technically sufficient.
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            The intruder refuses to stall, they call An-72P, who extinguishes it with rockets and that's it.
            Well, not always like that. Sometimes such fights took place there. At one time on YouTube, I reviewed many amateur shootings of border guards, there are whole races with shooting, and An can not always fly. Therefore, apparently, they came to the conclusion that it is necessary to have 1135.1 in due time.

            In general, I agree, I don’t intend to argue, I just wanted to know the opinion. )
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 28 December 2018 12: 15
              +4
              Alexey welcome hi
              Quote: Alex_59
              But they did not lose their combat effectiveness from this?

              Take for example Albatross and he is thinner in 400 tone and weaker armed, but he completely coped with his service, even taking into account his service in the Kola Flotilla!
              I don’t know, but as for me the 22160-th as an OVR fighter is quite normal!
              1. kepmor
                kepmor 28 December 2018 13: 54
                +6
                Sergei, what kind of "OVR fighter" are you talking about ??? ... really about the undership of project 22160 ??? ...
                this pepelats has nothing to do with the tasks of the OVR ship - the protection and defense of basing points and areas of dispersal of the fleet forces ... he does not have sufficient weapons and technical equipment for air defense, anti-aircraft defense, anti-aircraft defense, and anti-missile defense from the word ALL ...
                this is your "fighter" in all respects inferior even to the old MPK of project 1124M "Albatross" ... and in terms of power supply ... and in terms of armament itself he was not close to the "Albatross" ...
                of course, 1124M is "thinner" by 420 tons, but it has 20 missiles, 4 TEST-72, 48 RSL-60, 200 76-mm rounds, 2000 30-mm rounds ... plus a full-fledged radar and 2 GAS ) ...
                what kind of comparison of 1124M with the "cutting victim" are you talking about ??? ... it's not clear, however ...
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 28 December 2018 14: 29
                  -2
                  Quote: kepmor
                  this is your "fighter" in all respects inferior even to the old MPK of project 1124M "Albatross".

                  My friend, do not rush to rush time! Once I couldn’t even think that an RTO could shoot missiles for 1000 kilometers! The withdrawal of the Americans from the INF Treaty will greatly untie the hands of the Russian Federation, and then we’ll see who the 22160 is now having the 2 anti-submarine ASG, but it does not have PLO weapons!
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 28 December 2018 14: 55
                    +4
                    Quote: Serg65
                    The withdrawal of the Americans from the INF Treaty will greatly untie the hands of the Russian Federation, and then we’ll see who it will become 22160, which already has 2 anti-submarine ASGs, but does not have PLO weapons!

                    Ahem ... and what two CEOs on 22160 are we talking about?
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 29 December 2018 08: 28
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Ahem ... and what two CEOs on 22160 are we talking about?

                      At the request of the client, SJSC MGK 335EM-03 and SAS "Vignette-EM"
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 21: 28
                        0
                        This is in the recalme for export options, in fact, with those bypasses that made for our Navy MHC-335 not put in there, it has an antenna diameter meter and hook, it will not get there.

                        Well, the cherry on the cake is a "dead" GAC, with it a noisy submarine can hardly be detected at 10 km. According to 11356, all its properties are known, there is nothing to catch with such a GAK. Just cut the money for 20386 and that's it.
                  2. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 28 December 2018 15: 41
                    +2
                    Quote: Serg65
                    22160 having now 2 anti-submarine GAS
                    Obviously, you know something that we do not know ...)))))
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 28 December 2018 16: 51
                      +4
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Obviously, you know something that we do not know ...)))))

                      It seems to me that the first GAS is a subtle "Ariadne" for detecting PDSS - which is often confused with GUS PLO (the difference is like between a flashlight and an anti-aircraft searchlight).
                      And the second is the Minotaur, which is still being developed.
                      The repeatedly discussed "Vignette" on the 22160 ordered by the fleet, apparently, is not.
                  3. venik
                    venik 28 December 2018 22: 57
                    -1
                    Quote: Serg65
                    then we’ll see who 22160 will become, having now 2 anti-submarine ASGs, but it does not have PLO weapons!

                    =========
                    Yah?? And what container "Calibers" can not launch PLUR (91-R) ???
                  4. timokhin-aa
                    29 December 2018 19: 33
                    +1
                    He has no GUS. Only anti-sabotage.
                2. Newone
                  Newone 28 December 2018 21: 38
                  +1
                  22160 does not have an EITI? Oh well...
                  And there is no PLO .... The possibility of basing the KA-52 is uncountable, because the ship itself cannot torch out with a torpedo itself .... The fact that in a torpedo duel a surface ship is always in a losing position in front of the submarine is not safe ....
                  And the installation of the PLO armaments BEFORE working out and installing the main PLO GAK- as it is not very in terms of planning.
              2. timokhin-aa
                28 December 2018 19: 12
                +2
                The people of Albatross Greenback sometimes went to the pier - even experienced ones. As with the ISC.
                But the Albatross is our everything, a miracle ship, one of the masterpieces of Russian naval thought and industry.

                That's where a fighter, so a fighter!

                And 22160 is a shame.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 29 December 2018 08: 33
                  0
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  People from the Albatross greenback sometimes went to the pier - even experienced

                  Even the Petrels came out with greenbacks, and so what?
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    29 December 2018 19: 36
                    -1
                    Nothing. These ships - 1124 / M - even now, without any upgrades, pose a huge threat to the most modern enemy. For the sake of this, you can swing on the waves for a couple of weeks, especially since after that you will not have to free the hostages or storm the ship with the 10 meter board under fire.

                    22160 is a different matter.
            2. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 23: 33
              0
              This is with the Nereev fired on poachers. But now there are only two of them, Eagle and Dzerzhinsky, otherwise 22100, 22460, 97P, 745P, etc.

              And they are slow. Therefore, the name is aviation.
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 28 December 2018 12: 02
            +4
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            And how to do it in the Indian Ocean?

            I am wildly sorry, but why did you drive the 22160 into the Indian Ocean?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 28 December 2018 15: 08
              +3
              Quote: Serg65
              I am wildly sorry, but why did you drive the 22160 into the Indian Ocean?

              So the fight against pirates, which was announced as the main task, goes there.
              In the near zone off our coasts 22160 there is nothing to be done with its tasks - according to the law, only the FSB works in the economic zone.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 29 December 2018 08: 50
                0
                hi Welcome Alex!
                Quote: Alexey RA
                So the fight against pirates, which was announced as the main task

                It can be of course stupidity ....... though ... MTSC 226. 226-M projects quite successfully worked as convoys in the Gulf of Aden, Oman and the Persian Gulf with their 750 tones! Or at least take the 159 e SKR, Fifty dollars and their presence in the North, Mediterranean, Red, Arabian, Moluccan seas !!!!
            2. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 13
              0
              It's not me. This navy threatened.
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 5 October 2019 10: 38
          0
          Bertholph is a new concept. You are not aware of the campaign, in the Far East, border guards by 1991 had pr.97P (under 3600 tons), pr.745 (1600 tons), transport pr.1595 (under 4000 tons). Moreover, there were not a few of them.
      5. domnich
        domnich 4 January 2019 18: 15
        0
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        having 1500 tons of VI it is impossible to carry out patrol tasks in the ocean.


        And how are these hydrographs on ships of such a displacement plowing in the ocean for months? From personal experience: excitement up to 8 points inclusive - for a ship with a displacement of 1500 tons it is not a problem at all. And given the long ocean wave, I would prefer to storm on a not too large ship (it “fits better” - it floods less). At the 850 project’s OISs (3000 tons of water), “licked” the views from the forecastle, knocked out windows in the wheelhouse. After the planned small strengthening of the hull (at the very beginning of the operation of these vessels), no damage was caused by a storm at GISU pr. 861 (1500 tons of water).
  4. Tashkent citizen
    Tashkent citizen 28 December 2018 06: 39
    +1
    The article most liked this:
    Ships are actively used to tackle drug trafficking in the Caribbean, smuggling, guarding US maritime borders, suppress maritime poaching and flag display in potential hot spots, such as the South China Sea, near the border between the territorial waters of South Korea and the DPRK in the Sea of ​​Japan. The Americans do not forget about our country either - at least one ship is regularly on combat patrols in the Bering Sea, and periodically, when the ice situation permits, it makes calls in the Arctic.

    There is much to learn from a potential adversary, and apart from building ships.
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 08: 02
      +1
      Yes that's for sure. There is something to learn from them.
  5. Nemo
    Nemo 28 December 2018 06: 44
    +10
    Question to the author about this article and article about 22160: does this ship have a hospital, a prison and additional places for the rescued? And then judging by the conclusions of the article about 22160, then on these types of ships they should be.
    A few more comments on the article about 22160:
    - 22160 has 3 boats: 1 DSL and 2 high-speed boats
    - on board 22160 can accommodate up to a marine corps platoon, one compartment can consist of divers (the Navy uses diving equipment in containers)
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 08: 10
      +1
      There are additional volumes on Legends to accommodate both temporary units and rescued individuals. Evacuation of non-combatants was registered in the TK on this ship. There is always a punishment cell on big ships.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 28 December 2018 12: 17
        0
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        There is always a punishment cell on large ships.

        belay Come on??? And where is he on the big ships?
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 19: 13
          -1
          punishment cell))))
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 29 December 2018 08: 53
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            punishment cell))))

            Ahh, so this is you about Anglo-American ships, otherwise I thought I missed something in life !!!
  6. common man
    common man 28 December 2018 07: 11
    +10
    Itata. - Two MTU 20V 1163 diesel engines with a power of 9 hp each provide the ship with economic power. each, and afterburning - a gas turbine unit with a gas turbine General Electric LM900, with a capacity of 2500 hp similar to the base turbine on ships of the US Navy.
    I agree with the author! Let's develop a patrol for 4500 tons of displacement and stop construction due to the lack of a gas turbine engine. In how defense will increase.
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 08: 10
      +1
      This is not the question, but in the approaches. We and the diesel engines could do a patrol, only normal.
  7. arhPavel
    arhPavel 28 December 2018 07: 51
    +5
    1. Dear author, as people wrote above, I think it makes no sense to compare ships differing by 3 times in terms of displacement.
    2. Coastline protection is a set of measures, and I think it’s not worth taking one of the elements out of context. This article is not covered.
    3. If something is not clear, it does not mean that it is bad. I think our gunsmiths have proved this more than once.
    4. The price of construction and operation, and also where to build?
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 08: 14
      +2
      1. And if they are designed to solve the same problem in the same place, then why not compare? Especially if one of them is constructively a floating joint.
      2. 22160 is not invented for this.
      3. This is not clear to you. By yourself do not judge others, please.
      4. What is the point even a little money to spend on what is not applicable for the intended purpose? The Americans spent more, but they got ships. We spent less and got troughs. Doesn't that bother you?
      1. Oden280
        Oden280 28 December 2018 09: 05
        +6
        Our patrol ship will never serve in the Caribbean. Unlike Legends. which the hell is doing near Korea and Japan.
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 28 December 2018 09: 14
          0
          Quote: Oden280
          Our patrol ship will never serve in the Caribbean. Unlike Legends. which the hell is doing near Korea and Japan.

          while they were building, our admirals planned that 22160 would chase pirates in Somalia and the Gulf of Guinea. when built, they began to scratch turnips
        2. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 09: 47
          -2
          And where will he serve?
          1. timokhin-aa
            28 December 2018 09: 47
            -1
            Yes exactly. Today, even if they are deployed, there is no solution.
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 28 December 2018 12: 19
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            And where will he serve?

            laughing In Antarctica!
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 15
              -1
              And you mobilize the commander! I would laugh by the way. That would be fair, okay vegetables, but when sailors officers drown for this disgrace, it is a sin, my friend. Big sin.
              God of God will look at it, and will arrange for you a place on the bridge laughing
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 29 December 2018 09: 04
                +1
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                God will look at it

                Do not remember the Lord in the bustle, Oleg!
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                You will be mobilized by the commander!

                Yes with pleasure and not on such ships of the sea furrowed!
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                I would laugh by the way

                Do not forget to buy pampers!
                1. timokhin-aa
                  29 December 2018 19: 37
                  -1
                  I then diapers why? I do not ask for death laughing
          3. Oden280
            Oden280 28 December 2018 17: 20
            0
            Okhotsk. Barents. Japanese etc. sea
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 19: 15
              -1
              There are patrolling the FSB, large forces.
              1. Oden280
                Oden280 28 December 2018 20: 20
                +2
                For especially gifted experts. First of all, fleet forces patrol there, since these are areas of the operational deployment of our fleet.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  28 December 2018 23: 35
                  0
                  What fleet? Five pioneers and two corvettes are left on the Pacific Fleet, plus every little thing. In the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, SSBNs are deployed, why do they need your 22160? What will they do there?
                  1. Oden280
                    Oden280 29 December 2018 15: 07
                    +3
                    And they, that in airless space unfold and the straits between the Kuril Islands on the fence close?
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      29 December 2018 19: 39
                      -2
                      The straits between the Kuril Islands should be closed to anti-submarine forces, because American submarines graze there.
                      22160 never anti-submarine, from the word "in general".
                      1. Oden280
                        Oden280 29 December 2018 20: 43
                        0
                        https://iz.ru/719118/nikolai-surkov-aleksei-ramm-evgenii-dmitriev/sistemu-obnaruzheniia-submarin-spriatali-v-obychnyi-konteiner
                      2. timokhin-aa
                        29 December 2018 21: 05
                        -2
                        I erased the buttons on the keyboard, explaining to people in this thread for this system.

                        1. It is not enough. To search on the go you need more bulbovaya gas or podkilnaya. Bump them nowhere.
                        The towed GUS cannot aim the weapon, it gives an insufficient "overview".

                        2. If you put it in the compartment for a modular weapon, then there does not put the weapon. It turns out that it is necessary to choose - either GAS or weapons.
                      3. Newone
                        Newone 29 December 2018 22: 56
                        +1
                        Timokhin, WHY, in addition to the bookable GAS, is also sour? There is a helicopter, it performs additional reconnaissance, escort and destruction. It performs safely for itself, unlike Soviet IPCs, by the way.
                      4. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 13: 33
                        -1
                        Because on the nasal courses the towed HAS will find the submarine somewhere on the 1 / 4 range of its torpedo.

                        And there is no "package" for 22160 and there is nowhere to put it, so there are no anti-torpedoes and will not be.

                        Sailed.
                      5. Newone
                        Newone 30 December 2018 17: 17
                        +2
                        Timokhin, GAS is installed instead of the boat, not the necessary MPC, but a package in the compartment above the boat. Everything fits there.
                        When anti-submarine search, the IPC goes anti-submarine zigzag, so it will detect submarines at the declared range for the CEO. The fact that modern submarines can be detected by ASU (any) only at half the launch distance of a torpedo with submarines is a problem not related to design 22160. There is a helicopter for long-range anti-submarine search.
                      6. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 21: 36
                        -1
                        Do not flog crap. There is nothing to install into the slip, this is a launch-and-lift zone with a sloping floor, there are cuts of this miracle of technology in the internet, look for it.

                        There is no container package, and there will not be it, because the package has a torpedo's start and powder return with it, such that it cannot be stuck anywhere, the package has a heavy multi-ton base, which is placed only on the reinforced deck.

                        When anti-submarine search, the IPC is anti-submarine zigzag


                        I am begging you. Have you read a lot of romantic books about the thirties? What zigzag? The modern SAC of the western submarine allows the ship's propeller blades to be counted from 70-80 km, after which there is a rapprochement of somewhere up to forty, a torpedo is launched with a broadband CLS and control via a fiber-optic cable and a torpedo attack off the course to retaliate fire with a homing torpedo from the enemy side did not lead to the defeat of the submarine.

                        Further, their warhead-3 or whatever they are, "sees" the world "with the" head "of the torpedo while it goes to the target.

                        What nafig zigzag?

                        Already 1124 worked "jumping" - a jerk to the search point at the maximum speed-stop, lowering the OGAS, work from the "stop" - a snatch to a new search point. It was an excellent tactical scheme, and now it is very relevant. On the foot, the IPC opponent does not hear.
                      7. Oden280
                        Oden280 30 December 2018 19: 44
                        +1
                        You are with us. What are the developer SJK? Or do you have access to real TTH complexes? And certainly consider yourself smarter than all of our Navy headquarters.
                      8. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 21: 37
                        -2
                        The rights of the main headquarters of the Navy are cut down to such an extent that it is not fair to ask for shipbuilding from them.

                        And so it is there that very many people do not like, only they can do nothing.
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  9. hohol95
    hohol95 28 December 2018 08: 36
    +4
    Ships are actively used to fulfill the tasks of combating drug trafficking in the Caribbean, smuggling, protecting the US sea borders, curbing sea poaching and displaying the flag in potential “hot spots”, for example, in the South China Sea, near the border between the territorial waters of South Korea and the DPRK in the Sea of ​​Japan.

    Gunboat diplomacy (gunboat diplomacy) is a military-political course that uses a demonstrative projection of force using the Navy.
    Gunboat diplomacy was used by the United States in China to suppress a boxing uprising at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, during which control over Chinese rivers was exercised by American and English gunboats, as well as in Latin America.
    According to the definition of William Safire - "the iron fist of the threat of force in the velvet glove of diplomatic relations." This expression is now associated with any practice of using naval forces for foreign policy purposes. Nowadays, the synonymous expression “diplomacy of aircraft carriers” has appeared
  10. K-50
    K-50 28 December 2018 08: 38
    +3
    Almost all the technologies necessary for the construction of such ships, Russia has, albeit at a slightly inferior technological level. The economic course of the ship is provided by two MTU 20V 1163 diesel engines with a capacity of 9 hp. each, and afterburning - a gas turbine unit with a gas turbine General Electric LM900, with a capacity of 2500 hp

    We do not have such "motors", at least serial ones. And when they will appear, who knows? recourse request
    Once we bought it from the Chinese, now "they gnaw their elbows up to their shoulders.
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 09: 50
      0
      D-500 is on the way near Kolomna, and it’s possible not to strive for the same perfection, but to assemble the GEM on DDA-12000. Or take the same as the 22350.
  11. Tarasios
    Tarasios 28 December 2018 08: 45
    +8
    I looked for information on the ships of Project 22160. What can I say. In terms of equipment and capabilities, the ships are very "evil", and they may well hack to death with the same "Legend", which the author praises so much, and with a good chance of victory. But this is so, by the way - after all, the 22160 corvette is sharpened for other tasks: initially it was generally conceived as a "coastal patrol". If we compare for each position, then there is a clear difference - in cruising range (6000 miles versus 12000) and in displacement. Whether it is critical - time will tell and the experience of application. Considering that the displacement of the 22160 is three times less than that of the Legend, then at a much lower cost, it is possible to quickly and inexpensively (relatively) equip the fleet with a series of universal ships. Close the gap, so to speak. And only then, if necessary, calmly start developing and releasing "more sophisticated" models.
    In addition, listen to the author - so ships 22160 in general have a combat efficiency of 0%, which is already by default nonsense.
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 10: 08
      +1
      The important thing is not who gores whom, but whether the ship can be used for its intended purpose. And then Legend and MAK 21630 "Buyan" in close combat so can pile ...

      But that does not make him an ocean patrol ship.

      Regarding what 22160 was invented for - it was invented so that Zelenodolsk easily and quickly mastered government money. Coastal guard in accordance with current legislation is engaged in the FSB.

      And this ship is not universal in any way - it can in fact carry out with acceptable reliability only one task - to fire at a target from an 76-mm gun, provided that there is no significant resistance.

      But for this it is not necessary to fence in such a shed, and the "carrier of the 76-mm gun" has no tactical niche.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 30 December 2018 11: 19
        +1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        It was invented in order to Zelenodolsk quickly and easily mastered state money

        So why not regard it as a net investment in shipbuilding?
        The plant was not idle, workers received a salary, and did not take loans to maintain their pants. I think that everything was in order with the rating of the President among the labor collective. The decision not to stuff the ship with promising but underdeveloped weapons systems had a positive effect on the delivery dates, and strengthened the confidence of the plant management in its own forces. Now they are ready for more serious projects.
        But you can't tell the people "I'm sorry, we built it to warm up". So they come up with legends about pirates.
      2. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 30 December 2018 13: 16
        0
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Regarding what 22160 was invented for - it was invented so that Zelenodolsk easily and quickly mastered government money. Coastal guard in accordance with current legislation is engaged in the FSB.

        Aleksandr, are you again "slapping to order" for this project, or is it pathological hatred?
        You and I have been discussing 20380 for a long time, and to be honest by analogy, it turns out that they are for the Northern Shipyard (where much more is lost), also a way -
        easy and quick to master state money.
        ?
        Or
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        To accompany tankers, simple, cheap, also modular and more or less successful patrol ships of the 22160 project are being built.
        . Here it seems - alexmach just "I caught you by the hand"
        What is the difference? Who, what project, and when will it order? Well, this is an example of bad (not objective) journalism!
    2. Avior
      Avior 28 December 2018 10: 29
      +3
      you do not seem to understand the author.
      he criticizes just the fact that according to the declared tasks - an ocean patrol ship, it must correspond to the American, but it does not reach much.
      And about its use near its shore, the author writes that this is the task of the border guards, not the Navy.
  12. Alex_59
    Alex_59 28 December 2018 09: 19
    +6
    I agree with the author on most of the positions. Everything described in relation to the Americans was already with us in Soviet times. All patrol ships of the MCH PF were built with the expectation of mobilization in wartime, all corresponded to the standards of the USSR Navy, almost all were versions of the IPC or SKR (205P, 1124P, 1135.1, etc.). Most likely, the Americans adopted our experience while creating the Bertholf, because we were the first to make such a ship - this is the PSKR of Project 1135.1.
    At present, all this Soviet experience has been discarded by us and ignored. MCHPV build ships according to their requirements with minimal regard for the Navy. We are not talking about unification almost at all. While the Americans, the Soviet experience is honored and developed.
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 10: 09
      0
      Thieves from Kamchatka, by the way, went to Seattle, and to various charges of coast guards from different countries.
  13. Operator
    Operator 28 December 2018 09: 32
    +3
    A healthy man's patrol ship with a tonnage of 4600 tons is a brilliant example of a budget cut.
    1. Avior
      Avior 28 December 2018 10: 30
      0
      the price is far from directly related to the displacement.
    2. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 11: 02
      0
      No, because he is able to perform tasks as intended. And on the upper class, up to the fight against terrorists armed with anti-ship missiles
    3. Alex_59
      Alex_59 28 December 2018 15: 44
      0
      Quote: Operator
      A brilliant example of a budget cut.

      A brilliant example of a budget cut is an order for two tanker tankers of the 23131 project laughing
      1. timokhin-aa
        28 December 2018 19: 43
        0
        That's for sure.
  14. Newone
    Newone 28 December 2018 09: 47
    +3
    The author writes with aplomb, let's say, "not very correct things." Fundamentally, the American Coast Guard works on the ocean coast. The most important seas of the Russian Federation, the Baltic and Black, are not an ocean.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Avior
      Avior 28 December 2018 10: 32
      +2
      you should read the previous article on this topic, there is a link.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2018 15: 11
      +2
      Quote: Newone
      Fundamentally, the US Coast Guard operates on the ocean coast. The most important seas of the Russian Federation are the Baltic and Black, not the ocean.

      And what will 22160 do in the Baltic and Black Sea? Especially when you consider that the task stated for him at the time of Chirkov to protect the economic zone is not within the competence of the Navy - according to the law, only the RBM works in the economic zone.
      1. domnich
        domnich 4 January 2019 18: 30
        0
        Yes, he will normally go to the ocean, as once the sea minesweepers to protect fishing in the Atlantic from Sevastopol. Displacement is the most suitable.
    4. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 19: 43
      +1
      In these seas, we have the FSB FSB, the Navy with some left-wing patrols there nobody is waiting, above all our FSB.
  15. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 28 December 2018 09: 53
    +3
    What an unhealthy eulogy, don't you think? The author, if you are so smart and ingenious, why are you knocking on the keys, and not working in the design bureau, not developing "correct" ships for the Navy of our country, not heading the general staff?
    1. Avior
      Avior 28 December 2018 10: 33
      +2
      If you are so smart, why don’t you build and don’t wear a vest !!?
      smile
    2. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 28 December 2018 11: 25
      +4
      Quote: Andrey VOV
      if you are so smart and ingenious, so what do you knock on the keys, but does not work in KB

      So, after all, as practice shows, critics come out of failed actors, directors, writers and even cooks. yes hi
    3. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 19: 45
      -1
      Does it hurt you? Believe me, to be smart, while serving in the General Staff and not working in the CB, is much better than not serving in the General Staff and not working in the KB, but being a fool at the same time laughing
  16. arhPavel
    arhPavel 28 December 2018 10: 16
    +5
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    1. And if they are designed to solve the same problem in the same place, then why not compare? Especially if one of them is constructively a floating joint.
    2. 22160 is not invented for this.
    3. This is not clear to you. By yourself do not judge others, please.
    4. What is the point even a little money to spend on what is not applicable for the intended purpose? The Americans spent more, but they got ships. We spent less and got troughs. Doesn't that bother you?

    In order not to unsubscribe answers from the series "myself" in the comments, I will give an example.
    "are designed to solve the same problem in the same place, why not compare?"
    For example, cars are also designed to solve the same problem, but no one in their right mind compares the Tundra and Yaris. Although, in principle, you can compare.

    "2. 22160 is not invented for this.
    3. This is not clear to you. Do not judge others by yourself, please. "
    So open up in the article what they are for, tell us about the goals. Ships are tools and that's where you need to start, and you are comparing "sharpening knives" not to mention the concept of their use ..


    "What is the point of spending even a little money on something that is not applicable for its intended purpose? The Americans spent more, but they got ships. We spent less and got troughs. Does that bother you?"
    It bothers me that you already hung labels in ADVANCE, and what is behind these labels is not clear. I read both articles three times, I apologize but some verbiage. Apparently the author is upset, only the reasons for this can be complete.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 19: 48
      +2
      Well, I write that you did not understand something, it is your personal problem.

      Okay, I'll be brief - the 22160 project is unsuitable for anti-piracy and anti-terrorist operations in the open ocean, and in the BMZ such operations are legally carried out by the FSB. Therefore, the money spent on 22160 is thrown to the wind. Here it is, and I do not like it.

      The American ship here is just an example of what a real ocean patrol ship is from a technical point of view, so that it can be compared with 22160, for which the Navy verbally stated the same purpose as the Americans for Legend-class, up to the protection operations of the env. environment. A clear example is simple.
    3. timokhin-aa
      30 December 2018 13: 38
      0
      For example, cars are also designed to solve the same problem, but no one in their right mind, for example, can compare Tundra and Yaris.


      Well, why. Let's compare the Tundra and Yaris. Our task is to transport five people and 600 kg of cargo along rocky roads (there are no roads, the terrain is problematic, but the ground is solid) for a distance of 150 km.
  17. san4es
    san4es 28 December 2018 10: 39
    +4
    hi Thank. I’ll add a movie.
    The USCGC Bertholf (WMSL-750) is the first legendary US Coast Guard marine safety boat. It is named after Commodore Ellsworth P. Bertholph, the fourth commandant of both the tax service and the coast guard. Home Port - Alameda, California.
    In 2005, construction began at Northrop Grumman's Ship Systems Ingalls shipyard in Pascagul, Mississippi. It was launched on September 29, 2006, baptized on November 11, 2006, and put into operation on August 4, 2008. Homeport - Alameda, CA ... hi
    1. Dante Alighieri
      Dante Alighieri 28 December 2018 22: 32
      0
      Hahaha, thanks for the video. But the "experts" above argue that there is no modularity in it, and in addition there is no, not that in the domestic handicrafts, which are numbing analogues in the world. And most importantly, what is important? There is no armored boat. Hand face. A boat as an indicator of the efficiency of a ship ... What can I say what kind of power - such are the indicators. It's a pity that none of the bawlers will finish reading the video presented by you, dear Sanchez - it's so difficult ... Thanks again for the visual demonstration of the ship's transformation. hi
      1. san4es
        san4es 28 December 2018 22: 34
        +1
        ...You're welcome hi
      2. san4es
        san4es 29 December 2018 00: 28
        +1
        hi ... I didn’t finish it.
        Quote: Dante
        .... not one of the gorlopans before the video you submitted, .... reads out ....

        - So the movie will not watch laughing ... And he will not see how the USCG Cutter Bertholf intercepted boats with a "double bass".
        In the eastern Pacific, two drug-smuggling boats were stalked and intercepted at the same time on July 8, 2009, 80 miles off the coast of Guatemala, during the first drug interception for the coast guard, the Bertholf, the first ordered a national security boat. An infrared video shows escaping ships, suspected smugglers throwing bales overboard, intercepting coast guard boats and handcuffs of suspects ... hi
        Pacific Ocean, Bertholf, Alameda, California. On June 9, 2009, SoCal OPAREA conducted a structural test fire of its fake target launch system at the SoCal Pacific missile range ... MK-234 NULKA hover in the air, attracting incoming anti-ship missiles ... hi
        1. Dante Alighieri
          Dante Alighieri 29 December 2018 01: 30
          +1
          Interesting movies, especially false targeting ... here's the patrol boat. In general, in essence, this is our 11356. Even, as I saw, the number of anti-aircraft missiles in "combat" configuration is not much inferior to the Russian frigate (24 versus 16). I'm just wondering if the factor of the presence of such dual-use ships is taken into account by our Defense Ministry? Although the sense is - with the total domination of the enemy in the ocean ... I'm afraid the enemy's extra ten combat-ready ships here no longer play a special role - the alignment is already clear.
          1. san4es
            san4es 29 December 2018 10: 22
            0
            Quote: Dante
            .... do our MOs take into account the factor of the presence of such dual-purpose ships?

            hi ... The presence is taken into account - a combat unit after all (albeit a Coast Guard). And as a "factor" - request ... perhaps under some "action" / circumstance.
          2. timokhin-aa
            29 December 2018 19: 43
            +2
            Well, in fairness, even if instead of Falangs on the Legend to put RAM, on air defense there turns out to be incomplete. All hope of interference.

            On the other hand, they will not climb into the first line, but will work where the level of threat is low so that real warships can be released from secondary tasks.

            MO is a separate issue, patient. The fact is that in the General Staff of the Navy the mobilization and operational departments are disbanded. At least, with Serdyukov it was done.
            So who takes into account what is there now is a question.
  18. Tarasios
    Tarasios 28 December 2018 10: 45
    +3
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    The important thing is not who gores whom, but whether the ship can be used for its intended purpose. And then Legend and MAK 21630 "Buyan" in close combat so can pile ...

    But that does not make him an ocean patrol ship.

    Regarding what 22160 was invented for - it was invented so that Zelenodolsk easily and quickly mastered government money. Coastal guard in accordance with current legislation is engaged in the FSB.

    And this ship is not universal in any way - it can in fact carry out with acceptable reliability only one task - to fire at a target from an 76-mm gun, provided that there is no significant resistance.

    But for this it is not necessary to fence in such a shed, and the "carrier of the 76-mm gun" has no tactical niche.


    And with what joy are you trying to call the ships of the project 22160 "nedo" ocean patrol ship?
    If they are positioned as ships of the far sea zone. And more specifically:
    Project ships:
    "Vasily Bykov" - for the Black Sea Fleet.
    "Dmitry Rogachev" - for the Black Sea Fleet.
    "Pavel Derzhavin" - being built for the Black Sea Fleet.
    "Sergei Kotov" - under construction for the Black Sea Fleet.
    "Victor the Great" - under construction for the Black Sea Fleet.
    "Nikolay Sipyagin" - under construction for the Black Sea Fleet.

    Where are the oceans ???
    1. Alex_59
      Alex_59 28 December 2018 11: 03
      +4
      Quote: Tarasios
      Where are the oceans ???
      In your opinion, it turns out that the Tu-160 are being built for the airfield in Engels, what long-distance flights are there? laughing
      1. Newone
        Newone 28 December 2018 11: 08
        +1
        Comparing a strategic bomber with an ordinary guard is stupid. What kind of watchtower can this have in the ocean when based in the Black Sea Fleet?
        1. Avior
          Avior 28 December 2018 11: 14
          0
          in the first article it is written about this, the Middle East, for example.
        2. Alex_59
          Alex_59 28 December 2018 11: 16
          +4
          Quote: Newone
          What kind of watchtower can this have in the ocean when based in the Black Sea Fleet?

          The home port for such ships does not determine the region of their operations. He was credited to the Black Sea Fleet only because it is closer to go to the Gulf of Aden from there. The idea is that they should hang out in the Mediterranean Sea or the Gulf of Aden and protect our shipping from any attacks and attacks in peacetime. Initially, the idea was laid in these ships precisely this. One of the ideas.
          1. Newone
            Newone 28 December 2018 11: 27
            +2
            Protect the shipping of the Russian Federation in the Gulf of Aden? But is it there?
            And in the Tartus convoys to drive 22160 is more than suitable.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 28 December 2018 11: 50
              +4
              Quote: Newone
              Protect the shipping of the Russian Federation in the Gulf of Aden?

              Well chesslovo, I didn’t invent it. This task was voiced for the project in the media. And it is fully consistent with the equipment that he has (boats, helicopter, minimum URO). So I do not need to set the cons, this is someone in the government.
              Quote: Newone
              But is it there?
              Well, as "ours" ... There are quite a few crews of Russian sailors. There are not very many ships flying the flag of the Russian Federation, almost all of them have fled to offshores and are sailing under the flags of all sorts of Liberia and Cyprus.
              Quote: Newone
              And in the Tartus convoys to drive 22160 is more than suitable.
              It is possible and this. But for this it makes no sense to build a separate ship. Launch a ship under the flag of the Navy. Actually everything. An attack on him by military sailors of other countries is fraught with the outbreak of war. A pirate attack is possible - they don’t like to climb onto military ships, they see if they want to live.
            2. Avior
              Avior 28 December 2018 11: 50
              0
              and how will he drive convoys? more details, please.....
              what kind of convoys, by the way?
    2. Avior
      Avior 28 December 2018 11: 06
      +1
      and where is the far sea zone in the Black Sea? Where will he patrol 60 days for 6000 miles?
      1. Newone
        Newone 28 December 2018 11: 28
        +2
        You to Tartus and back count the distance.
        And besides Tartus, there may be similar tasks in Libya. In Egypt.
        1. Avior
          Avior 28 December 2018 11: 50
          0
          and how much to Tartus?
          but back to what? and what will this ship do in Syria? in the desert forbidden igil to drive?
          Threat about a thousand miles. So what? counted on three flights without refueling and replenishment of supplies?
          1. Newone
            Newone 28 December 2018 20: 27
            0
            From Novorossiysk to Tartus, approximately 1400 one-way miles. There are already 3000 miles back. Given the fact that the ship does not go on its own but guards the convoy, it maneuvers more and consumes fuel. And yes, round-trip without replenishment of supplies, because we deliver supplies to the tartus by the sea and not vice versa.
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 23: 38
              0
              And what is he guarding a convoy? Cannon? Maybe a machine gun?
              1. Newone
                Newone 28 December 2018 23: 46
                0
                Do you think ISIS should be fought on boats by Onyxes? Or immediately Vanguard with 500kt?
                1. Avior
                  Avior 29 December 2018 10: 31
                  0
                  enough marines on board
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    29 December 2018 19: 44
                    0
                    Yes, or even mercenaries. So it will be even cheaper than the Marines. And people from the service do not distract,
                    1. Newone
                      Newone 30 December 2018 00: 39
                      +1
                      From the ISIS high-speed boat with 500 kg of TNT to undermine the ship, will the mercenary squad also save? Or from scuba divers? Or do you have no threats to the sea besides the Somalis?
                      However, you are "conducting an information operation" ...
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 13: 41
                        0
                        Will a scuba diver catch up with a transport vessel? What a twist.

                        Fast boats on the high seas are another matter. This question sounds like this: "Is it possible to shoot indiscriminately at fast boats"? How to identify such a boat?
                      2. Newone
                        Newone 30 December 2018 17: 28
                        0
                        Have you heard about the Bosporus with the Dardanelles? Do you know how many ships there are waiting for pilotage? Or do you think that terrorists can attack only on the high seas?
                        "How to identify such a boat?" Radar, drone, visual surveillance, radio communication.
                        I agree that in a busy area, a boat with explosives is difficult to stop. But with the presence of 22160 in the convoy, this is the problem of making a decision, and in the absence of 22160 the problem of forces and means.
                      3. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 21: 41
                        0
                        No one will shoot at a boat that has not shown itself as hostile and, for example, is following a parallel course. And when it turns sharply, it will be too late.

                        There are few, if any, ways to solve this problem. Americans in the 80s were given the right to heat such spoons, but only in the Persian Gulf. Elsewhere, only after Cole, after the warning lines, etc.

                        Not everything is so simple with spoons, and certainly it was not worth building a 1500 ton ship for this.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2018 15: 18
      +1
      Quote: Tarasios

      And with what joy are you trying to call the ships of the project 22160 "nedo" ocean patrol ship?
      If they are positioned as ships of the far sea zone.

      Do you believe the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy?
      - "the new patrol ships of the project 22160 modular type are rank 3 ships and are designed to guard and protect the maritime economic zone, participate in the search and assistance to victims of maritime disasters, in the protection of ships at sea, naval bases and water areas with the purpose of warning about the attack of a potential enemy ";
      - "ships of the project 22160 are designed to protect and guard the maritime economic zone, and in the event of hostilities - to ensure the stability of the forces and facilities of the fleet during the defense of the basing areas. They are also called upon to perform the tasks of escort, anti-piracy and search and rescue activities.";
      - "patrol ships are needed by the Navy today. They will solve the tasks of protecting communications, be used to combat piracy, poaching and other tasks."

      © Navy Commander Admiral V. Korolev
      And where can the fleet fight the pirates?

      By the way, the naval commander-in-chief’s desire to hang up tasks for the fleet that the fleet does not have the right to fulfill the law is especially pleasing. This is me about the protection of the economy and the fight against poaching.
    4. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 19: 51
      0
      This is just a basing, on Novorossiysk in the 184 brigade OVR.
  19. Avior
    Avior 28 December 2018 11: 27
    +2
    the argument goes around in circles.
    in fact, the ships were conceived as a replacement for the BOD which drove the Somali pirates to guard, consuming a resource.
    It is clear that coastal targets its range and autonomy are excessive.
    And all the more strange to see that for some reason he will duplicate border guards.
    Therefore, it makes sense to consider its main task, patrolling in the far zone, in the open sea and ocean.
    The situation with Somali pirates has changed, of course, but the ships are nevertheless designed specifically for tasks of this type and it is from this point of view that it makes perfect sense to compare it with an American.
    In this, the author is right.
    1. Newone
      Newone 28 December 2018 11: 37
      -1
      In fact, you are not a representative of the gene. headquarters to categorically assert why these ships were thought. Certainly not for the fight against Somali pirates. The demonstration of the flag is an important thing, but for her ships do not design.
      But you and the author ignore this elementary truth.
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 December 2018 12: 10
        +2
        "representatives of the General Staff" fully voiced why they were thinking.
        Yes, to combat the pirates as well.
        far-field patrol ship.
        in fact, you yourself are not even likely to compose something, for which you can still use them.
        1. Newone
          Newone 28 December 2018 12: 17
          0
          To fight piracy in the Gulf of Aden? "Billy, where are the proofs?" (C)
          And if you read me inattentively, this does not mean that I did not offer a more believable task: sending military convoys to Tartus. Or do you think that for the Russian Federation Aden pirates are more important? :)
          I can add assumptions.
          1. Avior
            Avior 28 December 2018 12: 27
            +3
            believable?
            and what kind of convoys go there that need to be escorted? what ships accompanied them before that and what are the advantages of escorting by this particular ship? from whom will he protect protected vessels?
            Why do you need 6000 miles and 60 days of autonomy?
            1. Newone
              Newone 28 December 2018 12: 41
              0
              and what kind of convoys go there that need to be escorted?

              Syrian Express. Did not hear? Equipment, ammunition, which ISIS and others rolled out and carried.
              He was accompanied by the patrol ship "Admiral Grigorovich", for example, of the Black Sea Fleet.
              The advantages are obvious: more ship tonnage - more costs.
              from whom will he protect protected vessels?
              From ISIS terrorists on speedboats, for example. You read ISIS and their patrons are not able to equip pieces of 5 high-speed motor boats to capture transports?
              Why do you need 6000 miles and 60 days of autonomy?
              You look at the distance to Tartus back and forth. The fuel is then imported into the tartus.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 28 December 2018 15: 32
                +2
                Quote: Newone
                From ISIS terrorists on speedboats, for example. You read ISIS and their patrons are not able to equip pieces of 5 high-speed motor boats to capture transports?

                But what, in order to solve the problem of escorting auxiliary vessels, is it necessary to build a special project ship? To build instead of 22160 TSH or IPC and send them to an escort, as it was during the USSR, religion already does not allow?
                Oh yes, I forgot - there will be no new IPCs - for they were canceled by Chirkov in favor of just 22160.
                The High Command sees no prospect in the creation of ships previously designated as the OVR Corvette.
                Having abandoned the corvette, the Navy turned to the idea of ​​creating patrol ships - less armed, but with greater autonomy and versatility, capable, among other things, of going on long voyages. The development of the project of the patrol ship will be carried out by OJSC "Northern Design Bureau."
                © Navy Commander Chirkov
                1. Newone
                  Newone 28 December 2018 20: 51
                  -2
                  And who told you that 22160 is only for escort functions?
                  “Can it already be used now as a search and rescue ship?”
                  - After completing the tests and adopting the Minotavr-ISPN-M.2 container sonar station, it can be used as a full-fledged MPK, and even now it can be used in anti-submarine defense since the KA-52 can be based. Packages and other PLO weapons it will be possible to install or not to install after testing the HAC. Destroying a boat is safer from a helicopter. In a torpedo duel with a submarine, a surface ship is always in a worse position.
                  -You are talking about MF. And what is the project of a modern minesweeper? However there is of course. This is 22160 and there is. But modern underwater vehicle for mine clearance, which, in fact, will allow us to perform the function of TS at the modern level, not yet. Therefore, there is no module for it at 22160 yet.
                  - The installation of mines 22160 can provide (another question is that nafig is not necessary because it is better to set mines with submarines.
                  - The function of ensuring the landing of special forces groups to capture the bridgehead during amphibious operations and the support of the landing force with attack helicopters 22160 can provide.
                  - Anti-sabotage protection of bases and fleet groups 22160 can provide.
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    29 December 2018 19: 46
                    0
                    “Can it already be used now as a search and rescue ship?”


                    Do we need six yards apiece for so much search and rescue? And if they lift the wounded in a storm from the water and the operation needs to be done, then how to do it in rolling? That ship is small.

                    - After completion of the tests and adoption of the Minotaur-ISPN-M.2 container hydroacoustic station, it can be used as a full-fledged IPC,


                    No, you also need a bulbous / podkilnaya GAS to search for targets forward in the direction of travel or OGAS to search from a stop. We need anti-submarine weapons - at least torpedoes and depth charges, ideally a PLUR, but if a container launcher and a container with control equipment are placed on this trough, then where will the container "Minotaur" be? AND?
                    Anti-submarine helicopter does not shove there, there is no cellar for the TSA. The same applies to Ka-52. They can sit there, take off, but be based - no.

                    -You're talking about TSH. And what is the project of the modern minesweeper? But there is of course. This is 22160. Only now a modern underwater vehicle for the disposal of mines, which in fact will allow it to perform the function of the TSS at the present level, is not yet available.


                    Minesweeper in 1500 tons with a helicopter hangar and gym is a new word in military science.

                    - The function of ensuring the landing of special forces groups to capture the bridgehead during amphibious operations and the support of the landing force with attack helicopters 22160 can provide.


                    This is the substance in you say. Yes? How can you capture the platform from such a ship? Than? A couple of MP offices on boats? A helicopter there can be based only unarmed.


                    1. Newone
                      Newone 29 December 2018 23: 49
                      0
                      And if they lift the wounded in a storm from the water and it will be necessary to do the operation, then how to do it on a pitching? That ship is small.
                      To the HOSPITAL will be forwarded on the coast. This is a ship for the Black Sea Fleet. He has no tasks far from the bases where the rescued cannot be delivered by helicopter.
                      No, you also need either a bulb / nodding GAS to search for goals in the direction of travel or OGAS to search from a stop
                      What for? Bulbovye / sodomy GAS are needed when the PMS submarine patrolman accompanies. Here is a helicopter.
                      "An anti-submarine helicopter cannot be put there, there is no cellar for the ASP." an attack helicopter with ammunition can be shoved but anti-submarine is not? Oh well...
                      A helicopter there can only be based unarmed.
                      According to https://iz.ru/614487/aleksei-ramm-evgenii-dmitriev/modulnye-korvety-usilili-morskimi-ubiitcami KA-29 is based armed and improvements to the storage of aircraft weapons are accepted.
                      How can you capture a bridgehead from such a ship? Than? A couple of MP units in boats?
                      . From one such ship it is impossible. From 5, two full companies of marines in helicopters and boats can be landed. With 10 - a battalion. How many ships are ordered there? 10?

                      By the way, judging by the presentation of the Zelenodolsk plant Vignette-EM, two torpedo tubes 325mm, SAM "SHTIL" are part of the additional equipment installed.
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 13: 44
                        0
                        To the HOSPITAL will be forwarded on the coast. This is a ship for the Black Sea Fleet. He has no tasks far from the bases where the rescued cannot be delivered by helicopter.


                        And who to believe - you or the commander of the Navy?

                        Those. You can shove a strike helicopter with ammunition, but there is no anti-submarine? Oh well...


                        Shock too, and they will not be there either. It will be Ka-27PS, and machine guns on it will be put before departure, that's all. These ships will not carry anything else.
                      2. Newone
                        Newone 30 December 2018 17: 29
                        0
                        Believe me or deputy. Fleet Commander Interviewing News
                        It is dangerous for you to believe, you are biased, you are conducting a war of info.
                      3. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 21: 43
                        0
                        And what of this deputy. told the news that this contradicts Chirkov? What ships for BSF? Well, yes, basing on Novorossiysk. Well, to something because they must be attributed.

                        What matters is where they will be sent.
              2. Avior
                Avior 29 December 2018 10: 34
                0
                where did you get that Grigorovich escorted the convoys? nowhere is this about.
                and the Syrian express didn’t go coy, and there was no point in escorting the BDK — these are armed ships, they do not need to be protected from pirates.
                1. Newone
                  Newone 30 December 2018 00: 19
                  0
                  The express train included not only BDKs. Unfortunately, we have trouble with the BDK. We bought in Turkey the usual old rollers and drive them together with the BDK.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 30 December 2018 00: 50
                    0
                    could the status be ships of the navy.
                    in any case, they really went without convoys
                    1. Newone
                      Newone 30 December 2018 00: 52
                      0
                      Avior
                      If you haven't figured it out yet. The main threat to the Syrian Express is not NATO, but terrorists. And they don't care about the status of the ship. And they have the strength and means to attack.
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 28 December 2018 15: 28
            +4
            Quote: Newone
            To fight piracy in the Gulf of Aden? "Billy, where are the proofs?" (C)

            - "ships of project 22160 are designed to protect and guard the maritime economic zone, and in the event of hostilities - to ensure the stability of the forces and facilities of the fleet during the defense of the basing areas. They are also designed to perform the tasks of an escort, anti-piracy and search and rescue activities ";
            © Navy Commander Admiral V. Korolev
            The commander in chief Chirkov, who ordered 22160, said the same thing.
            1. Newone
              Newone 28 December 2018 20: 53
              -1
              There was a question about anti-piracy activities in Strait of Aden... So the possible seizure by ISIS of the "Syrian Express" transport under international maritime law would be piracy. So "Where's the proofs, Billy?"
              1. Avior
                Avior 29 December 2018 10: 37
                0
                Yeah, the BDK pirates of the Syrian Express captured, very funny.
                And what proofs are you waiting for? Above they have already been given to you, it is clear that there will be no proofs that were preparing to reflect the attack of a specific Hassan from Somalia.
                1. Newone
                  Newone 29 December 2018 16: 37
                  0
                  Proofs about piracy specifically in the Gulf of Aden. Indeed, based on the parameters of the unrest in this place, the author draws conclusions about the unsuitability of 22160, and you agree with him. To conduct anti-piracy actions in the Black or Mediterranean Seas 22160 is more than capable.
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    29 December 2018 19: 54
                    0
                    There are three main points of pirate danger in the world - the Gulf of Aden and the waters adjacent to it (Ind.ocean), the Gulf of Guinea and the Strait of Malacca.

                    Well, let us tell us where 22160 will go from these three places.
                    1. Newone
                      Newone 29 December 2018 22: 41
                      0
                      Timokhin, piracy activity that does not threaten the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation and the economic interests of the Russian Federation is NOT a determining factor in the construction of the fleet. And actions that, according to the laws of the Russian Federation, are characterized as pirate, and directed against the citizens of the Russian Federation and the economic interests of the Russian Federation, unfortunately, are much more likely in the Black Sea. As an example: the seizure of the motor ship "Avrasia"; an attempt to seize the oil platforms of Chernomorskneftegaz by the Ukrainian Navy; seizure of the ship "Nord" of the Naval Forces of Ukraine in the Sea of ​​Azov. These examples are REAL danger, not Somalis.
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 13: 45
                        +1
                        Well, the existing forces can easily cope with Ukrainian piracy. To do this, nothing needed to be built.
                  2. Avior
                    Avior 29 December 2018 21: 35
                    -1
                    more about piracy in the Mediterranean, please.
                    1. Newone
                      Newone 29 December 2018 22: 48
                      0
                      IG attack on holidaymakers in the city of Sousse in Tunisia. 30+ dead. The attackers sailed on a boat (i.e. this crime is characterized as piracy).
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 30 December 2018 01: 16
                        0
                        and how would there help even Grigorovich, even Nimitz with an escort?
                      2. Newone
                        Newone 30 December 2018 01: 20
                        0
                        Grigorovich - I don’t know. 22160 - would stupidly drown the boat on which the terrorists sailed.
                      3. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 13: 46
                        +1
                        Had waited for them there. But it does not happen. I note that any ship could have drowned this boat. And 22160, and any real ship.
                      4. Newone
                        Newone 30 December 2018 17: 32
                        0
                        Naturally. This is the protection of the sea coast from landing from the sea - one of the tasks of the patrol ship of the fleet. By the way, for the Black Sea coast of the Russian Federation, in particular Crimea, it is very relevant.
                      5. timokhin-aa
                        30 December 2018 21: 44
                        0
                        So there is the FSB. Has already. With the ships of the project 22100, google.
      2. parma
        parma 28 December 2018 13: 46
        +2
        Quote: Newone
        The demonstration of the flag is an important thing, but for her ships do not design.

        We build tanks to run 300 meters on the Red Square, and you are talking about ships and countries on another continent .....
        1. Newone
          Newone 28 December 2018 20: 58
          -2
          I do not know where you have "tanks are being built to run 300 meters along the red square." A pilot batch of these tanks has been ordered in the Russian Federation. They are being run-in among the troops. Or do you propose, as Americans, to buy 300 F-35s for 100+ million rubles each, and then NOT to take them into service, because they don't work?
      3. timokhin-aa
        28 December 2018 19: 53
        +1
        GSH demanded from the Navy in 2010-2012 to carry out the fight against piracy. The General Staff did not require these ships to be made the way they were made.
  20. 5 – 9
    5 – 9 28 December 2018 13: 52
    -1
    Ship 3 times larger suddenly turned out to be better .... "oh, how unexpected." The Ploonites supply them to us for this, right? They said "we want 6 patrolmen", and those - "will be done, which ones you want?", Right? Then the Wasps had to be asked, Wasps ... it's even better to patrol them!
    Well, the multi-colored coloring asks everyone to suggest that they need to be compared with FSB-eshny border guards, and not naval corvettes.
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 19: 54
      +2
      By the way, the FSB has a project 22100, this is a normal coastal patrol. Not that ...
      1. Newone
        Newone 29 December 2018 00: 02
        -1
        Don't you think that if the Zelenodolsk plant makes a series of patrol ships for the FSB, is it easier and more profitable for them to push the same patrol officer for the fleet than to make a NEW ship and shrink by displacement (and therefore the price of the final product) by 2,5 times?
        1. Avior
          Avior 29 December 2018 10: 38
          -1
          what it was about, they did for the Navy not what was needed, but what was easier.
          I see, and you already understood it
          1. Newone
            Newone 30 December 2018 00: 49
            0
            Avior, you did not understand it. To make the ship more functional but 2,5 times smaller displacement, having a SERIAL ship, is MUCH more expensive for the plant. And any production worker will push back from such a decision by all means
      2. keleg
        keleg 14 January 2019 17: 26
        0
        Only that patrolman is standing for more than 9 yards, against 6 in 22160. And those 9 without Bagira, without Anapa, without Positive, without DSL, i.e. in the configuration 22160 it will already be the top ten.
        And it is still unclear how 22100 will run with import-substituted engines - obviously slower than 22160.
        Yes, I also like Polar Star. But the price ...
  21. Tarasios
    Tarasios 28 December 2018 14: 30
    +5
    I even laugh with some comments. Interesting logic: like - why do we need a range of 6000 miles, where to put it? And now, that means 12000 miles (like the Legends) - Naman-Naman, right? ;) Well so, this is the standard - you don’t need to think here, here you need to copy everything blindly!
    And yes, 6000 miles is a crawl if the economic move, giving out 16 knots. But if you immerse and bring down 25-30 for a long, long time (in some sources the maximum speed is 30 knots), then these 6000 will dry out sharply. Anyway, the supply will come in handy; no one will calculate a flight to a meter and weigh fuel for drops;)
    And yes, 60 days of "autonomy" is purely for the crew, I suppose. Of which there are 24 people (I don't remember exactly, I'm too lazy to look). But since 80 people can be loaded into the boat (landing, additional specialists, rescued, etc.), then "60 days" is similar - "dry up";)
  22. Decimam
    Decimam 28 December 2018 14: 35
    +4
    It is interesting to observe how the author tries to hammer a typhoon in a single glass and not drop the crown, which he himself put on the top of his head.
    Actually, despite the fact that the author's intellect of everyone who disagrees with him "could have hammered into a basic program on a Soviet computer at the age of 17", intelligible arguments as to why the Russian Navy cannot have a ship designed to carry border patrol service for the protection of territorial waters, patrolling a 200-mile exclusive economic zone in the open and closed seas; suppression of smuggling and piracy activities; search and assistance to victims of maritime disasters; environmental monitoring of the environment; he did not provide protection of ships and vessels in the passage by sea, as well as naval bases and water areas in order to warn about an attack by various enemy forces and assets in wartime. Where in the ship's functions came the operations in the far ocean zone, which the author pedals so hard, remains a mystery, because the designer of the project 22160 ships is positioned exclusively as classic OPVs. And the comparison of project 22160 with the Legend class is completely incorrect. Why don't the author compare project 22160 with VARD 7 095, DAMEN OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL 1800 or River Batch 2.
    By the way, if you look at the Militarytimes website, then there is a local "iksperd" of Timokhin's level, even without BASIC, easily proves that project 22160 is "in peace with analogs", the rest nervously smoke on the sidelines. For those who wish, the link is http://www.militarytimes.ru/articles/24910.html.
    The most interesting thing is that iksperds are an international phenomenon. Who does not believe and speaks enemy languages ​​can go to the British thinkdefence website and see how the local Timokhin "tear to pieces" OPV River Batch 2 in comparison with the Legend class - https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/06 / thoughts-batch-2-river-class /
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2018 15: 42
      +3
      Quote: Decimam
      Where in the functions of the ship came the operations in the far ocean zone, which the author pedals so hard, remains a mystery, because the designer ships of the project 22160 are positioned exclusively as classic OPVs.

      Heh heh heh ... the designer of project 22160, in fact, positions them as ships that have nothing to do with the Navy. See for yourself:
      According to the demonstration materials of Zelenodolsky NW, presented at the Army-2016 and IMDS-2017, as well as data from the OSK website, the main tasks of PC 22160 are:
      - border patrol service for the protection of territorial waters;
      - patrolling the 200-mile special economic zone in neutral and territorial waters;
      - suppression of smuggling and piracy;
      - Search and assistance to victims of maritime disasters;
      - environmental monitoring of the environment;
      - in wartime:
      guarding ships and vessels at the transition by sea, protecting naval bases and water areas in order to warn of an attack by various enemy forces and equipment

      Since when has the fleet been engaged in border patrol services, curbing smuggling and protecting the economy zone? belay

      That is, if we take the tasks for which the designers designed the ship, then 22160 was designed as a PSKR and should serve in the battlefield.
      1. Decimam
        Decimam 28 December 2018 17: 40
        +1
        Do you want to express my comment in your own words?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 December 2018 18: 02
          +3
          Quote: Decimam
          Do you want to express my comment in your own words?

          No. I would like to show that the project 22160 ships are positioned exclusively as classic PSCR for the battlefield, which have nothing to do with the Navy. And they are ordered by the Navy, the competence of which the ship's tasks voiced by the designer are not included.

          The main problem 22160 - it was ordered for the wrong department. With faces he would have looked much more organically. smile
          1. Decimam
            Decimam 28 December 2018 18: 06
            +1
            And how is PSKR different from OPV?
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 December 2018 20: 00
              +2
              In fact - nothing. OPV in other fleets and perform the tasks that we have assigned to the DSCR.
      2. Newone
        Newone 28 December 2018 23: 56
        -2
        It is difficult for the manufacturer to write that the ship is designed to combat anti-aircraft defense, because while the module is not ready. It’s hard to write that it’s a minesweeper, because while no trawl. And no one will write that this is a ship for special operations, simply because such things are not written.
        1. Avior
          Avior 29 December 2018 10: 38
          +1
          modules are simply not ready, not yet
          1. Newone
            Newone 30 December 2018 01: 18
            -1
            Avior
            Modules are not just not ready, but while not ready. GAS Minotaur passes the test. The calm is already ready. The EM vignette is ready. It is already possible to install 2 mm torpedo tubes for the "Package".
        2. timokhin-aa
          29 December 2018 19: 56
          0
          To carry out special operations you need something completely different. For example, the Americans use the San Antonio DVKD or the Wasp UDC for special operations. And in the case of a special risk, for example, on the territory of the DPRK or, as it used to be, in the USSR, the landing of special groups goes only from a nuclear submarine. Explain the difference between DVDKD, UDC and APL on the one hand and 22160 on the other, or you yourself will understand.
          1. Newone
            Newone 30 December 2018 01: 04
            0
            No, there is no need to explain the difference. Chasing the UDC "VOSP" to drop 10 people in a group is cool :)
            And the submarine in the Black Sea is also cool :). Especially a nuclear submarine with a helicopter :))))
            This is if about special operations
            Now about the landing.
            I understand, Timokhin, that you cannot be convinced, you are conducting an "information operation", but still:
            From the planned 6 22160 landed to a half-battalion! Marine Corps with the support of 12 (1 in the hangar second on take-off) combat helicopters. This is enough to capture ANY port on the Black Sea except Istanbul and Sevastopol.
            The cost of such a group is an order of magnitude lower than that of the Mistral, for example, which can plant about the same amount.
            The combat stability of such a group is an order of magnitude higher.
            1. timokhin-aa
              30 December 2018 13: 47
              +1
              Chasing the UDC "VOSP" to drop 10 people in a group is cool :)


              Can you imagine how many people provide 10 raid on the territory of a foreign country? !!!
              1. Newone
                Newone 30 December 2018 17: 34
                0
                If you drive, then a lot. If 22160 - much less.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  30 December 2018 21: 50
                  0
                  1. Special groups are not planted one by one. There is a covering group ready to help the main group evacuate if need be. She also needs transportation. The exception is landing with a submarine, but there the level of secrecy is incomparable with a surface ship.

                  2. A special operation with one helicopter is nonsense. We need a "side" for landing and a "side" for cover. It is possible that the evacuation will take place in combat, then a reserve group is needed in order to get people out of the downed helicopter.

                  3. We need preliminary reconnaissance, we need distracting actions, we just need a spare helicopter, which can be sent to replace the broken one.

                  4. The take-off and landing of helicopters must be ensured with any agitation, and I note that with 4 points with 22160 you will not be able to fly.

                  22160 is here by absolutely.
      3. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 30 December 2018 13: 48
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        - suppression of smuggling and piracy;
        - Search and assistance to victims of maritime disasters;
        - environmental monitoring of the environment;
        - in wartime:
        guarding ships and vessels at the transition by sea, protecting naval bases and water areas in order to warn of an attack by various enemy forces and equipment

        Are you really convinced that all these functions are purely for Bohr? Those. at one time in the Gulf of Aden, instead of PSKR Bohr, by mistake, the Navy drove the BOD 1155 (and once even Peter the Great) ?! Then the truth came to their senses, and came to the conclusion that it is a little expensive and these functions can be shifted to 22160 (it’s just cheaper and you don’t have to take large warships anymore) from military services in the Mediterranean ?!
        1. Newone
          Newone 30 December 2018 17: 36
          0
          The author just believes that the protection of the Gulf of Aden is the main task of the fleet and for its sake 22160 to be built.
        2. timokhin-aa
          30 December 2018 21: 51
          0
          It was at that moment that we had to think with our heads, and go along the path of expanding the powers of the FSB, legalizing PMCs, etc.

          Non-combatant ships for the Navy is now a luxury.
    2. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 19: 57
      -1
      1. Your pain does not please me childishly, I will continue to spit on your American deity, be sure

      2.
      clear arguments as to why the Russian Navy cannot have a ship designed to carry the border patrol service for the protection of territorial waters, patrolling the 200-mile exclusive economic zone in the open and closed seas; suppression of smuggling and piracy; search and assist victims of marine disasters; environmental monitoring


      Because, in accordance with the current legislation, these tasks are entrusted to the FSB, and the FSB has all the necessary forces and means for this. The Navy is right here, and it is impossible to conduct this activity in the open ocean on the 22160 shell.

      Damenovsk ships have their own "niche", in previous articles I wrote, which and even in some ways compared Damenovskaya OPV with 22160, I do not consider it necessary to repeat myself.
      1. Decimam
        Decimam 28 December 2018 20: 10
        +2
        "... I will continue to spit on your American deity, of course."
        Looking at how you carefully polish it today, the conclusion suggests itself that you clean up after yourself. They didn’t give a damn.
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 23: 42
          0
          Rubbed his face with a sole. Wiped out so to speak laughing
  23. Ezekiel 25-17
    Ezekiel 25-17 28 December 2018 14: 58
    +3
    US Coast Guard ships patrol in the open ocean, also in the hurricane zone, ours are not. Hence the project.
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 19: 59
      0
      The fact of the matter is that 22160 is going to be sent to the open ocean, which is why I compare it with what it does in the ocean.
      1. Newone
        Newone 28 December 2018 21: 14
        0
        Where did you get the idea that they are going to send him to the ocean for "anti-piracy" struggle?
        There are more than enough tasks for a ship with the declared characteristics in the fleet.
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 December 2018 23: 43
          0
          In the last article there were statements by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy on the subject.
          1. Newone
            Newone 29 December 2018 00: 11
            -1
            There were words about anti-piracy activities. I did not see anything about anti-piracy activities in the ocean. If anything, then the concept of pirated activity is not limited to Somali raids on tankers.
            An attempt to seize the Navy of Russian vessels and / or drilling platforms in the Black Sea without declaring war is also a pirate activity.
            An attempt to seize the transport of the "Syrian Express" by a gang of ISIS / Annusra members / whom else our ill-wishers think up there is also a pirate activity.
            1. Avior
              Avior 29 December 2018 10: 47
              -1
              you are simply composing openly out of stubbornness
              it is clear that the ship on which they are trying to stick a bunch of places for people, a hospital and two operating rooms, is not intended for operations in coastal waters or on the Black Sea.
              1. Newone
                Newone 30 December 2018 01: 33
                0
                Here the author and you mostly compose. About the main tasks in the Gulf of Aden.
  24. rayruav
    rayruav 28 December 2018 19: 07
    0
    4600t displacement of destroyers of the 80s of course you can reserve places for much
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 December 2018 23: 44
      0
      Yes, and it looks much more logical for autonomous operations at a great distance from the bases than the shell in 1500 tons.
  25. Newone
    Newone 29 December 2018 00: 21
    -1
    All the same, the author focuses on the fact that 22160 is a patrol ship, and patrol functions are the prerogative of the FSB, not the fleet.
    But 22160 is, in my opinion, in addition to the functions already implemented, a blank for the ships that the ARCHI needs for the fleet, but which we cannot build, because the EQUIPMENT is not ready. There is no satisfactory GAS for the IPC (they make "Minotaur-ISPN-M.2"). Satisfying the fleet of modern system of search and destruction of mines - no.
    If all this is to wait, another time will pass, after the equipment is ready, when the ships will have to be built, and they are needed yesterday.
    1. Avior
      Avior 29 December 2018 10: 49
      -1
      It is a patrol ship for remote areas of the high seas and oceans.
      and this is the task of the fleet, not the border guards.
      only now he obviously cannot fulfill his functions.
      1. Newone
        Newone 29 December 2018 14: 28
        0
        If this ship is needed for the OCEAN, what is it doing on the Black Sea Fleet?
        Why not in the Pacific?
        All-crawler ...
        They themselves will come up with stupidity, they themselves shout that this is stupidity ...
        1. timokhin-aa
          30 December 2018 21: 52
          0
          They can send to the Silent. Rumors go that they will be scattered all the same in the fleets.
  26. VRF
    VRF 29 December 2018 00: 31
    0
    I read everything carefully. The conclusion is how you got it with such articles: everything is fine with them, and we do utter nonsense. Enough already?!
    1. Avior
      Avior 29 December 2018 10: 52
      -1
      write an article yourself about the wretchedness of these Arly Burke against the backdrop of a new communications boat laughing
    2. timokhin-aa
      30 December 2018 21: 53
      0
      Maybe it’s time for someone to start doing their job well? Then there will be no articles.
  27. Viknt
    Viknt 29 December 2018 01: 09
    -1
    22160 is the FSB, and the FSB is never a fleet, which, judging by the comments, no one, including the owners, really knows. I remember at first they weren’t seriously going to arm him at all, these are those dudes. But naval service at sea is far from sugar. The fleet is dying, and the state is building 22160 instead of corvettes for the Navy ... ??? In such cases, for the patrol in the near zone, little to little shamanized and partially disarmed junk, as it seems to me, will come down. But our JBnds have their own truth and their own budget, separate from national problems.
    1. Newone
      Newone 29 December 2018 01: 29
      -1
      22160 is exactly what the fleet is. Moreover, 3 in one. You just need to judge by the set of equipment / weapons, the location and the needs of the fleet.
      1. Avior
        Avior 29 December 2018 10: 51
        0
        for a set of equipment and weapons, this is a classic patrol ship for the far zone.
    2. timokhin-aa
      30 December 2018 13: 49
      0
      its own budget, separate from national problems.


      Keywords. Alas.
    3. From Siberia we
      From Siberia we 9 January 2020 16: 45
      0
      300 days at sea per year. so you so fop
  28. alexmach
    alexmach 29 December 2018 03: 00
    +1
    Very interesting critical look. The author writes well, read his old articles and comments to them, and this is what I found there
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    To accompany tankers, simple, cheap, also modular and more or less successful patrol ships of the 22160 project are being built.

    Author, how do you command me to understand? Have you changed your mind in half a year?
    1. timokhin-aa
      29 December 2018 20: 01
      -2
      No, not at all. It’s just that the article was a part of the operation, so to say, in the information field, and it was there that had to be written exactly so that 20386 looked as bad as possible at this contrast. Because the harm from it is disproportionately more than from 22160. The latter are simply bad and unnecessary, and 20386 actually cost the country to re-equip BMZ forces.

      It would be "cheaper" for us to lose a small war than to get about what we got. In the fight against 20386, all means are good, including those.

      In that article, by the way, was nehily continued offline. Somehow I will write later, later.
      1. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 29 December 2018 23: 51
        +1
        Quote: alexmach
        Very interesting critical look. The author writes well, read his old articles and comments on them, and this is what I found there
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        To accompany tankers, simple, cheap, also modular and more or less successful patrol ships of the 22160 project are being built.

        Author, how do you command me to understand? Have you changed your mind in half a year?

        And here it’s straight - BRAVO !!!
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        No, not at all. It's just that that article was part of a certain operation in the info field, let's say, and it was there that it was NECESSARY to write exactly so that 20386 looked as bad as possible on this contrast. Because the harm from it is incommensurably greater than from 22160 ...
        Alexander, here it smells of "zakazushnichestvo", and this you, as an author, greatly upset me.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        It would be "cheaper" for us to lose a small war than to get about what we got. In the fight against 20386, all means are good, including those.
        - yuck, how awesome it turned out !!
        1. timokhin-aa
          30 December 2018 13: 50
          0
          I'll write a continuation of the story with 20386 later.

          After holidays. Then you will understand everything.

          The entire 22160 series has done the country several times less harm than 20386.
      2. Newone
        Newone 29 December 2018 23: 52
        +1
        In general, the author is waging an "information war". It is difficult to determine with competitors or simply with the Russian Federation.
        1. timokhin-aa
          30 December 2018 13: 51
          0
          With enemies and rippers.
          1. Nemchinov Vl
            Nemchinov Vl 30 December 2018 14: 19
            +1
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            With enemies and rippers.

            well, like this give back and the Northern Shipyard for 20380! - after all, it seems we came to the conclusion that for what ? Do not find ?!
            1. timokhin-aa
              30 December 2018 21: 56
              0
              There is a reason, only it was necessary to punish Almaz and Kuroyedov.

              The point, however, is that now troublesome 20380 are mostly cured, and besides, this is the only battle ship that Russia can build "here and now" for at least relatively reasonable money.

              Accordingly, until the appearance of the new project of the ship BMZ, which is cheaper and more successful than 20380, this is the only option.
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  30. Ivan Zhukov
    Ivan Zhukov 1 January 2019 22: 18
    0
    I serve in the Coast Guard, on the military unit number 5. This ship from 22460 ,, Sapphire ,, is not that much different (not counting the size). The same take-off and landing with a hidden hangar is. A dinghy boat in the aft of the ship is installed, where, by the way, there is also a sauna. The armament is even better than that of the Yankees. 2 machine gun mounts are much better than a fart in the bow.
    A phrase
    - Protection of the crew from weapons of mass destruction - radiation, chemical and biological.
    Generally killed me, we have all the ships equipped with such a system. Even grandfathers.
    1. From Siberia we
      From Siberia we 9 January 2020 16: 50
      -1
      I serve in the Coast Guard, on the military unit number 5. This ship from 22460 ,, Sapphire ,, is not very different

      I wish to go out of my puddle like the Baltic in autumn and winter to the Quiet. To the housekeeper. it differs in size .... I worked with him and in the class of legends. To the Americans we are like to China cancer. And these are just beautiful ships. not compare with our modern balalaika. Do you want to answer - in PM.
  31. Wildcat
    Wildcat 2 January 2019 14: 18
    0
    Quote: Setrac
    Quote: Wildcat
    A good article, interesting in comparison to "hardware", put a plus.

    But what is she good at? There are near-minded people who compare the heavy T5 with the average T-34.
    In this article, the author compared the "frigate" with the "corvette" and was surprised - "but they are different."

    Not a frigate and no corvette ... and, probably, protecting the feelings of readers, the author still did not write about Japanese patrol ships conducted by the Ministry of Tourism ...
  32. tigoda
    tigoda 2 January 2019 14: 53
    +1
    the author is apparently a "smoker". A semi-tanker ship with a fuel supply of half a globe (12000 miles) should be declared a model for coastal patrols in the Black Sea - you need to get high in the trash. The author deliberately keeps silent about the fact that the "Legends" do not have any air defense and in fact "fight" as customs officers only against drug trafficking and trade pirates.
    Trying to compare a mining dump truck with a mobile missile system is simply ridiculous.
    And all this in a serious tone and with foam at the mouth .....
  33. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 2 January 2019 16: 14
    0
    For that kind of money and in such a displacement, Russia can afford not just some shabby American patrolman, but full-fledged 22350 frigates. What would they say if the fleet already had 7 Gorshkovs and two more under construction?
  34. keleg
    keleg 14 January 2019 17: 10
    0
    We go to the website of the Ministry of Defense, read the tasks of the fleet, write out what is suitable for 22160
    In peacetime:
    1) Identification of communications and equipment of oceanic and marine theaters in strategically important areas of the oceans;
    2) The study of the likely areas of hostilities and the conditions for the use of various branches of the Navy, the use of weapons and technical equipment;
    3) Intelligence over the activities of foreign ships and aircraft;
    4) Shipping Protection
    5) Implementation of foreign policy actions of the government
    6) Assistance to the Border Troops of the FSB of the Russian Federation in protecting the State Border, the territorial sea and the exclusive economic zone of the Russian Federation
    7) Assistance to the internal troops and internal affairs bodies of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation in the suppression of internal conflicts and other actions using means of armed violence on the territory of the Russian Federation, ensuring public safety and the state of emergency in the manner established by the legislation of the Russian Federation
    8) Assistance to the civil defense forces and the Ministry of Emergencies of the Russian Federation in liquidating the consequences of accidents, catastrophes, fires and natural disasters.

    In the threatened period
    1) protection of shipping and production activities in the territorial sea and the exclusive economic zone of the Russian Federation, and, if necessary, in crisis zones of the oceans.

    Total - a very sick list of tasks, the boat obviously will not stand at the berth.
    Yes, 22160 is a peacetime warship. But all of the above tasks are too expensive to solve with frigates (which are three to four times more expensive).
  35. Nemchinov Vl
    Nemchinov Vl 1 February 2019 18: 39
    0
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    The point, however, is that now troublesome 20380 are mostly cured, and besides, this is the only battle ship that Russia can build "here and now" for at least relatively reasonable money.

    Accordingly, until the appearance of the new project of the ship BMZ, which is cheaper and more successful than 20380, this is the only option.


    Alexander, but THIS IS A LIE! And you know that very well! There is 11661-K (E), which is cheaper by 6-7 billion, for each unit, and its efficiency in providing anti-aircraft weapons in BMZ is much higher (in terms of the composition of weapons), and you are perfectly aware of this ?! If you try to "correct the flaws" of 20380, it will make it EVEN EXPENSIVE !!! But not where.
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