Why do we need icons instead of guns?

435
So, we don’t approach the end of 2018 in the best way. We will not have "Almaty", we will not have Su-57, we will not have "Coalition-SV", we will not have repaired airfields. We have thwarted all the plans for the construction of ships of the main classes; only with boats, on which Chinese engines are regularly put, everything is more or less.

Why do we need icons instead of guns?




But we will have in Alabino (in the “Patriot”) a temple for 6 thousand people. The main temple of the Armed Forces.



In general, the situation is very strange, to be honest. All this, I'm sorry, reminds the Russian-Japanese 1904-1905 war, in which we won such a convincing victory.

Oh, no, there was no victory. There was a crushing defeat on land and at sea, the loss of foreign bases, an incompetently drowned fleet and the list goes on.

Probably not enough icons were sent to the front. It was necessary more.

Today, on the one hand, we hear that there is no money for that, there is no money for that, but money for toys is in good condition. And not only money.

I will talk about money a little lower, the topic will also be interesting.

And now I would like to quote a phrase that Defense Minister Shoigu uttered and which many who heard it already replicated.

“To make every square meter of the temple symbolic, for this we will cast out the steps of the temple from captured German equipment,” said Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu to members of the public council in his ministry about the main temple of the Ministry of Defense in Kubinka. Nobody argued with the minister.

It is understandable, to argue with Shoigu now more expensive.

But the trouble is, the question arises: where will Mr. Shoigu take this trophy German vehicle? We, thank God, 75 years as the Germans did not fight. And do not plan like.

Probably, this is about the plunder of the museum funds tank technicians in Kubinka, as I understand it. Indeed, what? Anyway, the museum’s exposition dedicated to the Second World War is no longer an exposition, since everything of value has migrated to the Patriot Park.

So, you can calmly take everything that is left, melt down the steps for the temple and solemnly fasten them.

And it can be even easier. You can cast these steps out of scrap metal, and just withdrawn from the museum just quietly to drive abroad.

What, really, trifle? Just think, some kind of museum in Kubinka. Park "Patriot" - that's the main thing! All the best there, and do not care that the Law on Museums is broken, you never know that there was one of the best collections in the world. Minister Shoigu wanted everything to be gorgeous at the Patriot - some law was invented ...

So they will take away from Kubinka what is left of German and in the best case they will sell them to private collections. And it will be really the best outcome, because in the worst they will melt down foolishness.

And why do we need some kind of German tanks and armored personnel carriers? All that a true Russian patriot should know is the T-34, the best tank in the world. The rest of the evil one. And where is the evil one best cast out? Right in the temple.

By the way, here is the temple for you. On 6 thousands of people.

And nothing that a huge temple will stand in a place that works week in a year. Nothing that by the wave of the hand of the Minister of Defense will bring those who wish to pray. As the prosecutors in the Crimea in their time to Nikolai Romanov offered weekly prayers, so now in the new church there will be no last day for those who want to. The entire General Staff and all the Ministry of Defense. How pretty little rush.

And there is nothing that will not remain at such a pace even to make a film clearly clear, of samples. What is generally sad at the level of pornography that prevails in our so-called cinema.

And for the rest, World of Tanks and other computer games will be enough.

But how nice it will be to never stand on the steps of the Main Temple of the Armed Forces of Russia, which are cast from German trophy technology ...

By the way about the temple, and, finally, about the most important thing: about money.

Thank you very much to the newspaper “Krasnaya Zvezda”, our main body of the Armed Forces! If it were not for the work of colleagues, then we would never have reached what we will talk about now.

So, some time ago, “Red Star” began to publish heroic materials on how they all began to throw off the temple.


Screenshot of the publication in the newspaper "Red Star" by 24.12.2018

Naturally, the flow can not decrease, since such a huge number of funds collected is present. In fact, she, the figure, was from the very beginning, and changed very little. Billion seven hundred million with a tail.

But we have a document. No, Document! Which, in fact, explains the presence of an inexhaustible stream of people who want to throw off at the temple among the military.



Well, as we in the army are able to appoint these same "volunteers", I think no one needs to tell. Everyone at least once yes been in this skin.

I will please the veterans of the Armed Forces of the USSR, nothing has changed.

This is the problem ... Once a week, but find volunteers and imagine! And it’s okay if they, poor fellows, don’t have to transfer real money (now, dear ones, there is a little bit left!), Then only the journalist will have a headache to put a captain from Sakhalin into his mouth, who just needs the subject of a religious cult near Moscow.

Captain Alexander Drozdov, well done, how well wrapped! As you understand, it’s great that we don’t live in those times when the people robbed the church, forced them to give tithe! And now what beauty, not 10% you give, and how many you want. Well, lepote same!

And the most interesting. One billion seven hundred million rubles.

All of you, dear readers, seriously believe that this "with the world for a lot of money" have thrown off? Seriously?

But I see it all from a slightly different angle. “Suddenly,” nearly two billion have fallen — this is not a product of “dropping the whole world.” It is quite normal because the amount of a beautiful toy that collapsed overnight. From where is the third question, and it is not very important, if not from the budget of the military ministry. If from there - sadness, there is no - I do not care, for example, from where Shoigu dug them.

But I am sure that this is a budget.

It was because then these beautiful tales began about the fact that the whole world is building a church for themselves. That is why it is required to present weekly to the public those who allegedly donate to build a church.

These are our not built "Almaty".

These are our not flown Su-57.

These are not airfields repaired by 2018 throughout Russia.

No, of course, 1,7 billion is not money for our lives. This, let's say, little things. This is only a half dozen new T-90, if so translated.

But the approach itself is surprising. Icons instead of shells - it already was. And left in stories not in the best light.

For some reason I do not want a repetition, especially now.
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  1. +6
    27 December 2018 05: 45
    The novel is of course a burning topic ... but the document submitted by you causes great doubt.
    You can make a scan of it and print out any content in WORD up to the point that you are an agent of Mossad ... you’ll have to tinker with the signature a little of course ... and this will result in digestible paperwork to be thrown into the Internet ... be careful with such things.
    1. +5
      27 December 2018 05: 52
      it is at least. is this an extract from the order? where is the seal? where is the city on the right side under the cap of the order? The date on the top left is always the city on the right. what is this scribble?
      1. +4
        27 December 2018 06: 00
        Moreover, you cannot upload such a crude document to the Internet ... there will be no trust in the author. what
        1. -4
          27 December 2018 06: 05
          even if this is omitted, there is one big question - how can the unit commander collect this information?) I have nothing to do, for example, how to report to the authorities that I voluntarily do personal time) also give comments on that)
          1. +35
            27 December 2018 07: 01
            Well done Roman Skomorokhov, he wrote everything correctly!

            1. +55
              27 December 2018 07: 11
              Temples in Russia instead of guns - and this is on the eve of TMV!
              We will defend Russia from the enemy, Lord God ?! Praying to God to sing ?!

              All this is called shameless fusion of the church and the state, state and church.

              The merging of the church and the state (that is, the transformation of the church into a loyal instrument of the state) takes place in the Russian Federation creepingly - not openly, as in pre-revolutionary times, but at the level of personal contacts and arrangements behind the back of the people, contrary to the desire and mentality of the people and their hump, and according to personal ministerial concepts - for example, the same Shoigu.
              1. +8
                27 December 2018 07: 32
                Quote: Tatiana
                Temples in Russia instead of guns - and this is on the eve of TMV!
                We will defend Russia from the enemy, Lord God ?! Praying to God to sing ?!

                All this is called shameless fusion of the church and the state, state and church.

                The merging of the church and the state (that is, the transformation of the church into a loyal instrument of the state) takes place in the Russian Federation creepingly - not openly, as in pre-revolutionary times, but at the level of personal contacts and arrangements behind the back of the people, contrary to the desire and mentality of the people and their hump, and according to personal ministerial concepts - for example, the same Shoigu.

                hi
                1. -17
                  27 December 2018 20: 32
                  Devilry is not only in Ukraine in the person of Poroshenko's Kodla.
                  Devilry and here to the utmost.

                  Temple interrupted?
                  And he writes right there
                  Thank God ...


                  Decide, sir already, you are a militant atheist or Orthodox.
                  The word God is spelled a little bit first what you wrote.
                  After that, I will also write your name with a small letter.

                  Communists and sympathizers continue to fight the temples?
                  Fellowship comrades. Or does history not teach you anything?

                  Thank God that there are fewer demons in the army every day.

                  Orthodox Shoigu and this annoys those who want to arrange a new turmoil in Russia.

                  Shoigu showed by his deeds that he can.
                  1. +9
                    27 December 2018 21: 17
                    Excuse me, I'll put in my five cents. There was an explanation from the church ... In this and similar context, it is permissible to write "God" with a small letter
                  2. +8
                    28 December 2018 08: 17
                    Why if an atheist is immediately militant?
                    And God is not in temples; for Vera, temples are not needed.
                    1. -3
                      28 December 2018 19: 53
                      Quote: Maksim_ms
                      Why if an atheist is immediately militant?

                      Strange, huh? Nevertheless, not far from the truth.
                      Maybe this question will be better solved by a psychiatrist?
                      Quote: Maksim_ms
                      And God is not in temples; for Vera, temples are not needed.

                      A very interesting case. God is capitalized, faith is capitalized.
                      We probably just put different meanings in the same words.
                      1. 0
                        28 December 2018 21: 17
                        Quote: Flood
                        Quote: Maksim_ms
                        Why if an atheist is immediately militant?

                        Strange, huh? Nevertheless, not far from the truth.
                        Maybe this question will be better solved by a psychiatrist?
                        Quote: Maksim_ms
                        And God is not in temples; for Vera, temples are not needed.

                        A very interesting case. God is capitalized, faith is capitalized.
                        We probably just put different meanings in the same words.

                        What is the difference between faith and doctrine, can you say? This will at the same time be the answer to your question. It is written absolutely correctly.
                      2. -1
                        29 December 2018 06: 14
                        Quote: free
                        It is written absolutely right.

                        Thank you, reassured me, good citizen.
                        In a nutshell, simple and easy.
                        Let the horse think.
                        Quote: free
                        What is the difference between faith and teaching can you say? This will at the same time be the answer to your question.

                        Tovarisch, you apparently laid a certain meaning. But he eludes me.
                        That is, regardless of my level of intelligence and efforts, my answer to your question will answer my question, which I did not ask? Freshly.
                        To you for enlightenment:
                        faith lives in us regardless of any teachings. But the teachings can guide her in one direction or another. Faith is not alone at all; it differs among all. Like the teachings.
                        Which creates the unique variety of opinions and views that we observe.
                        So it’s stupid to write about FAITH, that in each and independently and hug the oak, throw a crust on the spirits. Everything is completely different. Man is a jug. And it may have vinegar and ragweed.
                      3. 0
                        31 December 2018 16: 51
                        [quote = Flood] [quote = free] It is written absolutely correctly. [/ quote]
                        Thank you, reassured me, good citizen.
                        In a nutshell, simple and easy.
                        Let the horse think.
                        [quote = free] What is the difference between faith and teaching can you say? This will at the same time be the answer to your question. [/ quote]
                        Tovarisch, you apparently laid a certain meaning. But he eludes me.
                        That is, regardless of my level of intelligence and efforts, my answer to your question will answer my question, which I did not ask? Freshly.
                        To you for enlightenment:
                        faith lives in us regardless of any teachings. But the teachings can guide her in one direction or another. Faith is not alone at all; it differs among all. Like the teachings.
                        Which creates the unique variety of opinions and views that we observe.
                        So it’s stupid to write about FAITH, that in each and independently and hug the oak, throw a crust on the spirits. Everything is completely different. Man is a jug. And in it there may be vinegar and ragweed. [/ Quo


                        Faith is a state. And religion is a doctrine. Faith as a state is one for all. But teachings can be different.
                      4. 0
                        31 December 2018 17: 49
                        Quote: free
                        Faith is a state. And religion is a doctrine. Faith as a state is one for all. But teachings can be different.

                        Sorry, very flat.
                        What condition? Crazy? Souls?
                        If this faith is one for all, then I dare to assume that with the same teaching, the result should be approximately the same for everyone. Is it so?
                      5. 0
                        1 January 2019 02: 21
                        Quote: Flood
                        Quote: free
                        Faith is a state. And religion is a doctrine. Faith as a state is one for all. But teachings can be different.

                        Sorry, very flat.
                        What condition? Crazy? Souls?
                        If this faith is one for all, then I dare to assume that with the same teaching, the result should be approximately the same for everyone. Is it so?

                        Of course not, the depth of feeling will be different. The mathematics is the same for everyone, after all, but the level of understanding is different.
                  3. -1
                    28 December 2018 13: 44
                    He can’t do anything. From what is really needed, what should be done
                  4. +1
                    28 December 2018 21: 11
                    Quote: For example
                    Devilry is not only in Ukraine in the person of Poroshenko's Kodla.
                    Devilry and here to the utmost.

                    Temple interrupted?
                    And he writes right there
                    Thank God ...


                    Decide, sir already, you are a militant atheist or Orthodox.
                    The word God is spelled a little bit first what you wrote.
                    After that, I will also write your name with a small letter.

                    Communists and sympathizers continue to fight the temples?
                    Fellowship comrades. Or does history not teach you anything?

                    Thank God that there are fewer demons in the army every day.

                    Orthodox Shoigu and this annoys those who want to arrange a new turmoil in Russia.

                    Shoigu showed by his deeds that he can.

                    "There is no need to deceive me, I myself am glad to be deceived."
                  5. -2
                    28 December 2018 21: 19
                    Quote: For example
                    Devilry is not only in Ukraine in the person of Poroshenko's Kodla.
                    Devilry and here to the utmost.

                    Temple interrupted?
                    And he writes right there
                    Thank God ...


                    Decide, sir already, you are a militant atheist or Orthodox.
                    The word God is spelled a little bit first what you wrote.
                    After that, I will also write your name with a small letter.

                    Communists and sympathizers continue to fight the temples?
                    Fellowship comrades. Or does history not teach you anything?

                    Thank God that there are fewer demons in the army every day.

                    Orthodox Shoigu and this annoys those who want to arrange a new turmoil in Russia.

                    Shoigu showed by his deeds that he can.

                    Judging by the cons, your disastrous business.
                  6. +2
                    31 December 2018 18: 39
                    Devilry and here to the utmost.
                    Gee, gee, gee ... "clericalism on the march" is called ... *))) And why only an Orthodox church? *))) Where for a heap - a mosque, a synagogue and a pagoda then? *)))) also 1.7 lard each? *))))
                  7. +4
                    31 December 2018 18: 56
                    Devilry and here to the utmost.


                    Yes, and damn it ... *)))) I finally understood why your missiles began to fall more often (tfu-tfu-tfu so as not to jinx it, without human casualties!) ... *))))) You just invite an Orthodox priest - this is the root of the problem ... *)))) and this dude in a cassock does not have enough voice to reach the "Almighty" or strength in his hands, shake the censer with a censer, "god" smelled what was smoking ... *)))) You guys need to invite everyone at once ... and a mullah, and a rabbi and a lama of some kind, bald in all places and finally fildipers ... *))) Here they are together, in a lot of sips, "god" will persuade to raise the rocket above any "firmament of heaven", even if the plant forgot to screw the engines in place ... *))))) Oh, oh ... really - they made fun of the New Year ... *)))) Happy New Year everyone ... *)))))
                2. 0
                  29 December 2018 22: 12
                  ... anyway we will "win" ... only we will immediately go to "paradise", and they will simply die ... laughing
              2. +8
                27 December 2018 10: 24
                Quote: Tatiana
                ..... behind the back of the people .... according to personal ministerial concepts - for example, the same Shoigu.

                In 2012, Shoigu was awarded the Knight of Malta (Masonic) Order (Grand Cross of the Order of Merit).
                Prehistory:
                1989. - M. Gorbachev met on the island of Malta with President D. Bush. It was Malta, the capital of the Order of the Knights of Malta, whose knights are members of the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderberg Club, that became the site of the fateful agreements on the collapse of the USSR.
                In November 1991, B. Yeltsin was awarded the title of Maltese knight. In the Kremlin, he was awarded the cross of the knight-commander of the Order of Malta.
                In August 1992, Yeltsin signed Decree 827 "On the restoration of official relations with the Order of Malta."

                And the real state of the army should be judged not by television PR actions of the ministerial - Maltese concepts, but by the real state of affairs, including in the mobilization system, where there are continuous tears.
                1. +1
                  27 December 2018 15: 21
                  In 2012, Shoigu was awarded the Knight of Malta (Masonic) Order (Grand Cross of the Order of Merit).
                  is that order whose master was Paul I? wink
                2. +7
                  28 December 2018 13: 45
                  Yyyyyy. Yeltsin, Knight! Order of the Drunken Knight
              3. +25
                27 December 2018 11: 34
                Quote: Tatiana
                Temples in Russia instead of guns - and this is on the eve of TMV!

                Recently, one comrade called Shoigu the greatest patriot, but my question is, how and in what way is his patriotism measured? I did not find words.
                It turns out that the most important patriot is the one in whose temple the domes are higher and whose cooler the temple.
                Personal coat of arms of Shoigu.

                Immodest somehow, the new nobles?
                Fraud and window dressing remained in our lives.
                1. +24
                  27 December 2018 12: 42
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  Immodest somehow, the new nobles?

                  King Arthur and the Knight Lancelot.
                  1. +15
                    27 December 2018 15: 23
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    Personal coat of arms of Shoigu.Immodest somehow, the new nobles?Fraud and window dressing remained in our lives.

                    Namely "new nobles" - and even from the 1990s!

                    Mikhail Leontyev, an economist and publicist, once told a joke on the Rossiya radio about this, popular on the sidelines among the courageous Russian oligarchs, so that the working people of Russia would also hear this joke. Namely.

                    JOKE
                    Somehow the Russian oligarchs gathered for a joint discussion to agree among themselves their positions on how they should live and become wealthier in Russia further.
                    Disputes between them began and when they ended and everyone agreed with each other on everything, then the honorary chairman of this meeting of oligarchs said:
                    - Well, now we need to somehow - in conscience - and think about the people!
                    - Right! - the oligarchs cried out together from places. - Who needs how many people ?! Let's make a list first, and then discuss it too!
                    1. +2
                      28 December 2018 09: 25
                      This collection has recently been featured in news across all channels. Remember who presided over there?
                      1. 0
                        29 December 2018 15: 30
                        Don't remember this one?
                  2. +7
                    27 December 2018 17: 41
                    Quote: serpent
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    Immodest somehow, the new nobles?

                    King Arthur and the Knight Lancelot.

                    How can you ?! This is the best defense minister and brilliant president!
                2. +16
                  27 December 2018 13: 05
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  Immodest somehow, the new nobles?

                  -----------------
                  The more magnificent the emblem, the more insignificant the genus, if we turn to heraldry. Fursov said so at one of his lectures. These are not my words.
                3. The comment was deleted.
                  1. +26
                    27 December 2018 14: 27
                    But is it not stupid to build temples and stadiums, to give out billions of dollars in loans for the construction of nuclear power plants to Turks and other Finns? At a time when your own fleet is breathing in the wind, there is nothing to pay kirdyk and pensions to naval aviation.
                    1. -22
                      27 December 2018 14: 34
                      What is charity? I think you’re able to look on the Internet. In any search engine, just type CHARITY (you can use small letters). I am very glad if I helped you a little.
                    2. -1
                      28 December 2018 21: 15
                      Quote: Fan-Fan
                      But is it not stupid to build temples and stadiums, to give out billions of dollars in loans for the construction of nuclear power plants to Turks and other Finns? At a time when your own fleet is breathing in the wind, there is nothing to pay kirdyk and pensions to naval aviation.

                      This is not stupid, there is another word for this.
                4. +4
                  28 December 2018 13: 51
                  Yyyyyyyy - Tuvinian knight Reindeer herder. Castered a coat of arms ..... on that coat of arms draw him an organ of origin and deer horns
              4. The comment was deleted.
              5. +28
                27 December 2018 12: 51
                Quote: Tatiana
                Temples in Russia instead of guns - and this is on the eve of TMV!
                We will defend Russia from the enemy, Lord God ?! Praying to God to sing ?!

                All this is called shameless fusion of the church and the state, state and church.

                ----------------------
                You thought the authorities were going to protect you? We have already been protected by pension reform, the next goodies are coming.
                1. 0
                  27 December 2018 13: 25
                  Quote: Altona
                  You thought the authorities were going to protect you? We have already been protected by pension reform, the next goodies are coming.

                  Everything is clear for a long time! The next stage of modeling GMOs is completed.
                  How many godfathers will be allocated in Happiness, so much will be Happiness bully
              6. +10
                27 December 2018 18: 37
                If we look at the clericalization of the Armed Forces, and the whole country, from the point of view of the current authorities of Russia, then everything is correct. I have long come to the conclusion that, from their point of view, people should be stupid and stupid (greetings from the Unified State Exam and stupid talk shows with the Shurygins and Sasha Gray on central channels, etc.), afraid of everyone and everything - policemen, officials, judges with prosecutors (with only 0,36% of acquittals, but with the same "bloodthirsty" J.V. Stalin - 9-11%), bandits (I do not see much difference between the above), and most importantly - God-fearing and respecting everyone these black scammers. For who else will explain to the people and the military,What is all power from God?
              7. +9
                28 December 2018 14: 53
                If you pray on the starting table,
                Sprinkle a rocket holy water
                That will not explode, the Proton will not crash
                - For the Lord's hand is strengthened.

                Kohl takes care of any soldier
                Mufti, rabbi or bearded pop,
                That shakes the foreign army
                He rushes away from the border to run.

                Pounding with cymbals, waving censers
                And with bearded and long-maned,
                People are praying, the president and the country -
                Just no use for no reason.
              8. +3
                30 December 2018 08: 09
                Quote: Tatiana
                Temples in Russia instead of guns - and this is on the eve of TMV!
                Well, in the university, prayers instead of Knowledge are already being shoved in full!

                Quote: Tatiana
                not openly, as in pre-revolutionary times, but at the level of personal contacts and arrangements behind the backs of the people
                In fact, not just openly, but insolently, in violation of the Constitution.
              9. 0
                31 December 2018 12: 03
                Yeah, the next step will be the construction of a mosque, synagogue, and other temples (the only question is, are there steps from which iron will be made?). I am not against faith and believers, but all this fuss and ostentatiousness, against the backdrop of problems in the country (rising prices for everything, utilities, fuel, etc., boorish attitude of officials) resembles a kind of circus. Yes, and who will serve in this super-temple, GUCCIbatushki, or what?
                1. 0
                  1 January 2019 23: 33
                  Pussy Wright has experience ...
                  1. +1
                    3 January 2019 00: 46
                    Quote: sabakina
                    Pussy Wright has experience ...

                    For money (alas) and little babies will serve in the temples, Vera is, but her servants turned into corrupt businessmen.
              10. 0
                3 January 2019 10: 21
                Temples in Russia instead of guns - and this is on the eve of TMV!
                We will defend Russia from the enemy, Lord God ?! Praying to God to sing ?!

                In fact, firstly, in the title of the article: "icons instead of guns" (and here icons, if the article is about a temple and about money, this is a question for the skomorokhov), and secondly, victories are obtained not only by force of arms, but also by force spirit, which Faith has never been a hindrance, thirdly, prayer is not made to God, but to oneself (sometimes before death).
                contrary to the will and mentality of the people
                For the people, dear Tatiana, no one authorized you to speak out. For example, on the website of the Resurrection Fund, today - January 3, 2019, there are already 1 million 900 thousand rubles of donations. And the author of the article is "sure" (that is, believes, without any evidence) that the donations are from the budget. It turns out that the author of the article is also a believer, only in whom or in what?
                Well, about the instructions of the Deputy GU (if it is genuine) about reporting information about donors for the construction of the temple, of course, the stupidity and excesses of the "educators", who, in my opinion, undoubtedly prepared a draft of this order for the troops. The sacrifice then benefits the donor when it is done in secret.
          2. +16
            27 December 2018 07: 10
            Have you served in the army as an officer?
            Judging by the phrase: “I have nothing to do” ... I doubt it
            1. -23
              27 December 2018 07: 13
              served and quite a long time. Well, make me share information that does not concern the service at all. I did not serve in the Soviet army. my personal life in general should not bother others.
              1. 0
                27 December 2018 09: 14
                Adventist on the 7th day?
        2. -12
          27 December 2018 09: 11
          Quote: The same LYOKHA

          Moreover, you cannot upload such a crude document to the Internet ... there will be no trust in the author.

          And what is wrong with the document?

          If you read it carefully, we will see that it obliges to provide HE volunteersand just introduce them surnames. There is a difference.

          This is a long tradition: the names of the donors to the church were printed in newspapers, commemorated at the services.

          For example, the names of donors to the Cathedral of Christ the Savior were printed in several editions at once, for example, in "Literary Russia"
          1. -3
            27 December 2018 09: 15
            the very form of this document so to speak.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. 0
          31 December 2018 12: 29
          That’s how it’s all fake.

          https://topwar.ru/152034-mo-rf-nazvalo-fejkom-soobschenie-o-sokraschenii-vyplat-pskovskomu-garnizonu.html
      2. BAI
        +6
        27 December 2018 09: 56
        And in the upper right corner, it seems to me not by chance, the handwritten inscription is cut off. If it had not been cut, many questions would not have arisen.
      3. +36
        27 December 2018 10: 04
        This is not an order, but an instruction drawn up in accordance with the requirements of the PMO No. 170 of 04.04.2017/XNUMX/XNUMX. Teach the materiel, so to speak. But in fact, for me it would be better to build a rehabilitation center for military personnel and their families. And people do not need to melt real benefits and trophies.
        1. +11
          27 December 2018 14: 32
          Yeah, Shoigu blurted out about remelting trophies without thinking how Zolotorev blurted out about a duel with Navalny. Something very noticeably dope climbed out of all the cracks of our higher generals and rulers.
          1. +4
            27 December 2018 15: 11
            Quote: Fan-Fan
            Yeah, Shoigu about the remelting of trophies blurted out without thinking

            Remelt the rifle bikes and forge the throne from them! Quite a feasible project. This is not some kind of Westeros! We will be asked: "Why?", And we will answer: "This is Russia, baby!" good soldier
            1. +2
              28 December 2018 14: 11
              Yes. Exactly and like in the TV series. "If the throne had been forged from members He would not have climbed off of it!"
          2. -7
            27 December 2018 21: 53
            Rather, after the war, the arsenals were full of military equipment of the Reich - from tanks, guns and other things left in abundance - these were the rest and put into action.
            1. Alf
              +3
              28 December 2018 20: 13
              Quote: Vadim237
              after the war, the arsenals are full of military equipment of the Reich

              If that were the case, then we would not have seen in the cinema T-44 in a plywood body kit and IS-2 in the form of a Tiger, I generally am silent about the YAK-52 with crosses.
      4. +2
        27 December 2018 10: 16
        And yet, does the wording I demand is correct? Can I order?
      5. +7
        27 December 2018 13: 47
        Bull terrier. The specifics of the extract were deliberately removed so as not to substitute a specific honest officer who had removed the extract on the telephone. Do you immediately have passwords and appearances?
      6. -4
        27 December 2018 15: 00
        The video will explain a lot.
    2. -12
      27 December 2018 05: 58
      ".... It is quite normal that the sum for a beautiful toy collapsed overnight."

      I agree with the author's concern that good deeds should not be done that way. Well, with the "beautiful toy" Roman was sorted out, a drop of ointment in a barrel of honey.
    3. +51
      27 December 2018 07: 00
      I will say only one thing here, with all due respect to the Minister of Defense, but he has one and very significant "but" - he is not a military man! You can put on any shoulder straps, but you never become a military man - for this you need to live in the barracks for 4 or 5 years, all these years go to the dining room under the drum, run on exercises, take part in all kinds of sports events on Sundays, go on guard and an outfit in the dining room, go AWOL with the girl, if you get caught, sit and think about your behavior in the guardhouse, mix dirt on the training grounds, and listen to the whole set of idiomatic expressions from the company commander or battalion commander, what a good person you are ... Well, then get in For 20 years, a platoon of motley soldiers, a bunch of equipment and weapons ... And our Rosguard is commanded by a stall guard (I exaggerate a little), the Minister of Defense is a nomenklatura worker of the CPSU, his state secretary of the soldier saw only in the picture, it's very good that the head of the General Staff dear general and that is bread! True, there is already such a clowning as under Serdyukov, thank God, but how much harm he brought to the country's defense - you can't even remember everything ... Hence the PR - the Minister thinks like a high-ranking official scolded at party work, and even in the late CPSU, they did people, oh-oh, this is not "EdRo" for you, the organization was serious - it believes that the temple is more important than the Coalition today! No more! Politically more profitable! Who sees this Coalition there, and here it is, the Temple, and who built it? Minister!
      1. 0
        27 December 2018 07: 15
        He is paramilitary !!! MOE all the same.
        1. +21
          27 December 2018 13: 59
          Quote: Conductor
          He is paramilitary !!! MOE all the same.
          So he was never in the operational staff; he did not go into the fire with the barrel. This is an inspector, an official who fines for swinging gratings and expired fire extinguishers.
      2. -11
        27 December 2018 08: 31
        Quote: Finches
        but he has one and very significant "but" - he is not a military man!

        The Russian Federation had 6 "military" ministers, what can you say about them?
        Quote: Finches
        Minister of Defense - CPSU nomenclature worker

        The last Minister of Defense of the USSR died in 76, after him there was an engineer, and after the engineer there was a cowardly marshal!
        Quote: Finches
        Who sees this Coalition there, but the Temple is standing there, and who built it?

        So I also think, we need tanks - planes with hundreds of thousands riveted (after all, tomorrow TMV, as one woman said here), and this "MChSnik" apartments, dormitories, warm toilets, a buffet ... we have that, the officers forgot how in to live in barracks with a potbelly stove? Or have you forgotten how to deal with hardships and hardships? The people are waiting for the Coalition, they don't sleep at night, but the minister is building a temple, you see !!! To dismiss the minister, the officers to the stall, the soldier to barley with a combi! You understand !!! am
        1. +21
          27 December 2018 08: 52
          You do not understand me, Sergey, absolutely ... hi But I will not argue with you!
          1. +8
            27 December 2018 09: 57
            Maybe I didn’t understand hi
          2. +10
            27 December 2018 11: 28
            Quote: Finches
            You do not understand me, Sergey, absolutely ... hi But I will not argue with you!

            It’s not entirely possible to agree with you, Stalin generally finished seminary, but the scale of his personality was global, he outplayed the West and its elite! It does not always depend on education, although the latter is important.
            1. Elk
              +1
              29 December 2018 20: 11
              Stalin graduated from a theological school, and he was expelled from the seminary.
        2. BAI
          +27
          27 December 2018 09: 58
          The Russian Federation had 6 "military" ministers, what can you say about them?

          None of them built churches, when leaving for Red Square, he was demonstratively baptized under the cameras.
          When former CPSU party apparatchiks suddenly defiantly become super-believers - this is very similar to hypocrisy and pharisaism. St. George is not necessary to remember - he was not a member of the CPSU.
          1. -1
            27 December 2018 12: 07
            Quote: BAI
            None of them built churches

            Moreover, none of them did not build an army request ...paradox?
            1. +12
              27 December 2018 13: 15
              Quote: Serg65
              Moreover, none of them did not build an army

              Rodionov tried. But he was quickly "gone".
        3. +8
          27 December 2018 13: 16
          Quote: Serg65
          and this "MChSnik" apartments, hostels, warm toilets, buffet ....

          Good afternoon, Sergey! Sorry, I'm certainly a civilian, but according to the general opinion of some of my military acquaintances, all of the above applies to Serdyukov’s innovations.
          1. 0
            27 December 2018 14: 12
            And you can’t get sick Alexey hi
            Quote: Alex_59
            all of the above applies to the innovations of Serdyukov

            Well, just recently, several dormitories in the Kuril Islands ..... I do not deny Serdyukov's merits regarding military life, but Shoigu is not far behind in this .....
        4. +13
          27 December 2018 14: 30
          Quote: Serg65
          Or forgot how to deal with hardships and hardships? The people are waiting for the Coalition, they don’t sleep at night, and you see the minister building the temple !!!

          In my opinion, churches should be built by the church, not the Minister of Defense
          1. -1
            28 December 2018 07: 30
            Quote: Sunflower
            In my opinion, churches should be built by the church, not the Minister of Defense

            Temples people are building!
            1. Elk
              0
              29 December 2018 20: 16
              Exactly! And the church is the people. So you are both right, but the Minister of Defense is a member of the church.
        5. +1
          28 December 2018 11: 16
          Quote: Serg65
          So I also think we need tanks - planes with hundreds of thousands riveted (after all, tomorrow TMV, as one woman said here), and this "MChSnik" apartments, dormitories, warm toilets, a buffet .... we have that, the officers forgot how in to live in barracks with a potbelly stove? Or have you forgotten how to deal with hardships and hardships? The people are waiting for the Coalition, they do not sleep at night, but the minister, you see, is building a temple !!!

          Totally agree with you. Sergei Kozhugetovich Shoigu is an excellent Minister of Defense of Russia, moreover, he did a lot to improve the living conditions of the military personnel. And one of the few truly believing Orthodox people in the leadership of our Moscow Region that I personally, as an Orthodox Christian, cannot but rejoice.

          The temple in Patriot Park - yes, to be built on donations, my personal attitude to this construction is somewhat ambiguous, including in terms of the design of the project, but it is better to have a temple there than a wasteland or stadium.
      3. -7
        27 December 2018 10: 46
        Quote: Finches
        True, such a clowning as under Serdyukov already, thank God no,

        At least one example of "clowning" under Serdyukov?
        1. +16
          27 December 2018 12: 19
          Quote: Ryazanets87
          At least one example of "clowning" under Serdyukov?

          He-he-he ... the furniture maker in the context of the "military temple" is better not to remember at all.
          And they say that when he visited the training center of the Airborne Forces near Ryazan, he almost cursed the head of the Ryazan school and was swept up when they reported that the repair of the dining room and engineering networks at the training ground was not completed (in the yard - September 30 (!)), but in the UTs, a temple is being built for voluntary donations.
          1. +1
            28 December 2018 11: 23
            This episode is true, and not just a little, but that is obscene and public. At VO, it was even described -https: //topwar.ru/1781-ministr-oborony-serdyukov-oblozhil-matom-oficerov-vdv.html
            1. +1
              28 December 2018 13: 18
              Quote: Ryazanets87
              This episode is true, and not just a little, but that is obscene and public. At VO, it was even described -https: //topwar.ru/1781-ministr-oborony-serdyukov-oblozhil-matom-oficerov-vdv.html

              Yeah ... it was the first version - from the Communist Party. In which the poor, innocent officers were obscenely blamed.
              The truth later it turned out that the conversation on elevated tones began after it turned out that with all the good reports, the landfill could meet the winter without a dining room and without heating - the deadlines were broken. And instead of explaining how it happened, who is to blame and when everything will be eliminated, the paratroopers began to tell the minister that a church was being built at the training ground. After that, I already went checkmate.
              Because you must remember that the furniture maker's feature at that time was "improving the living conditions" of military camps - and the Ministry of Defense was regularly reporting on the successes of the Defense Ministry. And then they put such a pig on him.
              1. +1
                28 December 2018 14: 04
                Yes that's right. I even saw the one who was "winged". Nothing, then he became a deputy of the State Duma. "Shame is not smoke, eyes will not eat." All are good, in short.
                Swearing publicly to distribute, even if it is reasonable, is a sign of ordinary rudeness, for my taste. Correctly point out the inadmissibility of "show-off" and "substitution of concepts" + impose appropriate penalties.
      4. +5
        28 December 2018 08: 26
        Yeah, a military sitting parade cannot take by definition.
    4. +3
      27 December 2018 07: 37
      As for the authenticity of the document, everything is correct, but there are also oral orders that are brought to the attention of the commanders. I had to find the notorious boxes with baksheesh, and these boxes had designations large and not large, clear stacking of delicacies ..... they just did not have an estimate for the cost of a part - think for yourself how to make money (I hope many people here know this). So here, all these loud statements about the "donations" of soldiers, for whom it is joy and great "happiness" for all conscious ... Have not forgotten the Soviet Army and its political administration? The Minister of Defense is certainly a fine fellow, but he knows and loves showing off. In principle, there is nothing wrong with it, if it is smart and in moderation, but as history shows, in this matter there is often pride with all that it implies!
    5. -25
      27 December 2018 08: 38
      For some reason, the document is presented in a cropped form, but this is not at all the case. What is it that the command requires the submission of the data of the military personnel of the donors to the temple? What's bad about it? Let the explanations like "yes we all know" accept those "who always know everything and everything about everyone"! Now about the main temple of the Sun. Their personal funds donated to the temple:
      Nikita Mikhalkov film director, Vyacheslav Fetisov Olympic champion, Svetlana Ishmuratova Olympic champion, Svetlana Khorkina Olympic champion, Anna Chicherova Olympic champion, Leonid Yakubovich, TV presenter, Ilona Bronevitskaya actress, Alexander Karelin, Olympic champion, Sadov, singer, Victor Sharapova, TV presenter, Igor Butman, composer, Emir Kusturitsa, film director, Valeria, singer, Mikhail Moiseev Chairman of the Russian Union of Veterans, Viktor Ermakov, Chairman of the Organization of Veterans of the Armed Forces, Kirill Kaprizov, Olympic champion, Oleg Dobrodeev, director of VGTRK, Eduard Zapashny state circus, Victor Soloviev, journalist, Alexander Marshal, singer, Nadana Fridrikhson, journalist, Victoria Cherentsova, singer, Oleg Mityaev, author performer, Svetlana Zhurova, deputy of the State Duma, Svetlana Druzhinina, actress, Valery Gazzaev, deputy of the State Duma, Andrei Vorobyov, governor of the Moscow region , Elena Isinbaeva, Olympic champion, Dmitry Kharatyan, actor, A Nastasia Makeeva, actress, Denis Maidanov, author performer, Yuri Nikolaev, TV presenter, Alexey Nemov, Olympic champion, Dmitry Pevtsov, actor, Dmitry Kiselev, TV presenter, Anastasia Chernobrovina, TV presenter, Valery Vostrotin, Chairman of the Russian Paratroopers Union, Igor Ugolnikov, director, Nikolay Rastorguev, singer, Alina Borodaeva, director of a network of medical centers, Dmitry Kulikov, political scientist, Oksana Fedorova, TV presenter, Boris Korchevnikov, general director of TK SPAS, Mikhail Khodarenok, military observer, Alexey Mukhin, Russian political scientist, Anna Shafran, radio host, Viktor Murakhovsky, military expert, Sergei Mikheev, political scientist, Olga Kormukhina, singer, Igor Ashmanov, entrepreneur, Armen Gasparyan, radio host, Shota Gorgadze, lawyer, Irina Kaznacheeva, adviser to the Minister of Culture of the Russian Federation, Evgeny Primakov, journalist, Irina Yarovaya, State Duma deputy, Ilias Mercury, blogger , Elena Starostina, TV presenter, Elena Serova, State Duma deputy, Georgy Seralidze, TV presenter, Maxim Surov, member of the State Duma committee, InnaSvyatenko, deputy, Mikhail Degtyarev, chairman of the State Duma committee, Zakhar Prilepin, writer, Andrey Khapochkin, chairman of the Sakhalin State Duma, Natalya Narochnitskaya, President of the Foundation for the Study of Historical Perspective ... and many thousands of other famous and ordinary people of Russia! Transferred to the accounts of the Resurrection charity foundation
      1 856 125 415, 76 rub.
      The history of Russia, whose independence was forged in wars with foreign invaders, is inextricably linked with the history of temple construction: temples - monuments, chapels, memorial signs and entire Orthodox architectural ensembles were erected in memory of the defenders of the Motherland.
      To unite all Orthodox believing military personnel, the Main Church of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is erected. You can read about this and much more on the official website of the construction of the temple. There you will see photos of many donors and their words about the importance of this event.
      And we will build a temple in spite of spiteful critics and outright opponents. God is with us!
      1. +35
        27 December 2018 09: 10
        And to orphanages, where kids without parents can’t translate what? There they are needed. We in our cooperative are supporting two WWII veterans, 3 poor families with children do not pay a road contribution, infrastructure maintenance contributions, gifts were prepared for them on NG. Believe me, it’s more important for them than a temple
        1. -19
          27 December 2018 09: 23
          Do you understand what donors understand? People donate their money to build a temple! Do you have any questions? Do you blame them? You, someone indicates who to donate and to whom to help? Orthodox people generally don’t talk about victims and help. Need help - help. Why are you opposing the construction of a temple and helping those in need, or, as in this article, icons for cannons? Do you know anything about the charitable activities of many parishes and the Russian Orthodox Church in general? Sorry to me such stupidity, as it is not even a hand comment.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +9
            27 December 2018 10: 26
            Go to the temple hungry and barefoot, I’m talking about realities when children don’t need the word of God but the confidence that they will support him in the hard way in life, and here the church and support are needed not only at the level of words, but also deeds
            1. -12
              27 December 2018 11: 28
              Well, Deriger, I will tell you about the support of the ROC to people in deed if you yourself are not able to find such information. I’ll just tell you again, maybe you don’t have absolutely any right to tell other people how to do good deeds. And you certainly cannot indicate by condemning who, when and how to help! The ROC has created departments of social orientation in almost all dioceses (188). There are departments for helping families and children. In 13 dioceses there are departments for helping drug and alcohol addicts. There are departments for interaction with medical institutions in 12 dioceses. Every year 6-7 new shelters appear for women in difficult situations. Assistance is provided to pregnant women. By 2016, the Russian Orthodox Church had organized 44 such shelters across the country. Now there are more than 60. There is a program against abortion, "Save Life". Thanks to this and the help of mothers, more than 7 babies have already been born. In 000 alone, 2017 new humanitarian aid centers were opened. There are now about 66 of them across the country. Thanks to the church, there are about 170 shelters for the homeless working in Russia. There are about the same number of large canteens. Together with the Ministry of Health, specialized medical posts are being opened throughout the country. Assistance is rendered to the disabled. There are over 100 projects in this direction, you can write a separate article about this. A whole system of work for priests and nurses in emergency situations, including during terrorist attacks and in combat zones, has been debugged. The Russian Orthodox Church provides great assistance to the Donbass. In the first year of the war alone, 400 128 rubles were donated. There are refugee assistance centers throughout the country. In Moscow, on the basis of the Church of All Saints in Novokosino, the work of a comprehensive center for helping the inhabitants of Ukraine has been organized. In the first period of the war alone, the ROC spent 081279 rubles to help refugees. At present, targeted delivery of humanitarian aid is underway. Free canteens are organized in the Donbass. During the first incomplete year of the war, the ROC sent about 76 tons of humanitarian aid to Donbass. Since then, work in this direction has only increased.
              1. +15
                27 December 2018 14: 30
                Too much in our secular state the church is everywhere present with the filing of those in power. Hence the negative.
                1. -14
                  27 December 2018 14: 50
                  Quote: balunn
                  Too much in our secular state the church is everywhere present with the filing of those in power. Hence the negative.

                  Where and how is it present in your life, and even more so with the filing of power if you are an unbeliever ?! Are you forced to participate in prayers and religious processions? Forcing to donate to the temples? Maybe you pay some sort of church fee from your salary or tax? No need to invent a negative, Cyril, and there will be no negative.
                  1. +13
                    27 December 2018 15: 17
                    When, until a certain point, it was not fashionable, no one believed, and then a miracle ... they saw the light ..... and all the former party organizers and their ilk sharply became believers. How is that?
                    How is it that we do not have a school in the new microdistrict, but we have a church? Isn’t this happening with the filing of those in power? And these are not single examples, they are full of unfortunately.
                    Faith is something personal ..... probably sacred, but when they make PR from it ........ well, that’s not right.
                    1. -17
                      27 December 2018 15: 30
                      Your comment is completely uninformative. Where is your neighborhood in which there is no school? What kind of party apparatchiks do you mean and how does this personally concern you if you are talking about sacredness and PR? Who specifically instructed to build a church instead of a school, and why did you decide that it was? Do you know that the church in Russia is separated from the state and the state does not build temples for budget money? Your comment raises more questions than actually carries information. Next time, if you decide to blame someone for something, then do it targetedly and accompany the argument.
              2. -15
                27 December 2018 18: 15
                And why did you put so many minuses to a person? For the fact that he told you about people on whose voluntary donations a temple is being built for our soldiers? For the fact that he told you what big and hard work our church is doing to support those in need, including the Donetsk republics? I have only one question for you haters of Orthodoxy and Orthodox - do you ever feel ashamed? If at least for a second this happens to you, you can still save your soul. May the Lord save and wise you!
                1. +16
                  27 December 2018 19: 05
                  Maybe because a fellow opera is a little disingenuous about:
                  Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                  Do you know that the church in Russia is separated from the state and the state does not build temples for budget money?
                  ?

                  There the document is long, and the numbers are large. feel
                  1. +8
                    27 December 2018 19: 08
                    Here is just the beginning:
                    1. -15
                      27 December 2018 19: 17
                      And you, comrade Mordvin, is that embarrassing ?! What does the state support spiritual education? laughing Is that bad, comrade Mordvin ?! What is cunning here? And for Opera you don’t worry about Detective either! Everything in its place. Would you like more here the presence of Orthodox patriots of our country?
                      1. +14
                        27 December 2018 19: 24
                        Quote: Halado romane
                        And you, comrade Mordvin, is that embarrassing ?! What does the state support spiritual education?

                        Khe-khe ... I am confused by this:
                        Quote: Cheslav Czursky
                        Do you know that the church in Russia is separated from the state and the state does not build temples for budget money?

                        Something like that ... does not fit ...
                        Quote: Halado romane
                        Would you like more here the presence of Orthodox patriots of our country?

                        Call the whole holy brethren, otherwise I remember how one pop escaped from my question about the monuments of white whales. laughing
                      2. -18
                        27 December 2018 19: 32
                        Naturally separated! And where does the spiritual and educational activity of non-profit organizations ?! You do not understand the difference? If you are so embarrassed by the construction of churches, the state only allocates land for this and then at the request of citizens! So or I'm lying? Do you believe this VTsIOM that the armed forces occupy the first place with respect to the trust of citizens? This is a question about the construction of the main temple of the sun? And as for calling here the Orthodox, then you and the Opera with the Detective laughing they were so scared that you still won’t move away as you recall ... laughing and this is without my humble participation, Mordvin! So we can handle it for now.
                      3. +15
                        27 December 2018 19: 39
                        Quote: Halado romane
                        And where does the spiritual and educational activity of non-profit organizations ?! You do not understand the difference?

                        I don’t understand. As they say, shake the priest better, gold will fall out of it. Here he hastily scraped the very first organization on the list, the center of the NGO "Renaissance". And who are the founders there?
                      4. -12
                        27 December 2018 19: 41
                        laughing so believe VTsIOM?
                      5. +12
                        27 December 2018 19: 45
                        Where do you see VTsIOM data?
                        I downloaded the first data from the electronic code of legal and regulatory and technical documentation, the second - from the directory of organizations. What side is VTsIOM here?
                      6. -13
                        27 December 2018 19: 48
                        Do not be nervous. Now I will explain how. I asked you a specific question. Answer please.
                      7. +12
                        27 December 2018 19: 53
                        Quote: Halado romane
                        I asked you a specific question.

                        Which one? Is this this one?
                        Quote: Halado romane
                        believe VTsIOM?

                        Of course not. Do not go cancer over the stone.
                      8. -14
                        27 December 2018 19: 57
                        You will thus speak with the mirror. Once again, let me not notice you at all. So does VTsIOM lie that the RF Armed Forces occupy the first place in the trust of our citizens? So do I understand you? And who is your Communist Party? laughing
                      9. +8
                        27 December 2018 20: 06
                        Quote: Halado romane
                        So does VTsIOM lie that the RF Armed Forces occupy the first place in the trust of our citizens?

                        And why should he lie when he does not need to do this? No, he’s not lying. But I don’t understand, what does this have to do with the Russian Orthodox Church?
                        Quote: Halado romane
                        And who is your Communist Party?

                        The Communist Party has long been bored, and the church at the same time. I can remember how Zyuganov walked through the back door to the church, when everyone else stood there for several hours to kiss the knuckles.
                      10. -11
                        27 December 2018 20: 16
                        Well, now you’ll understand. According to VTsIOM polls, the second place in the trust of citizens is held by the Russian Orthodox Church. Nearly 70% of respondents expressed their confidence. You can see confirmation of this every day looking at how many of our people go to churches, stand at the Liturgy, baptize children and take them to Sunday schools. In the near future you will see what will happen on Christmas and Easter Holy! They probably saw tens of thousands of people standing in line for hours to bow to the holy relics. Of course, 68 years of persecution of the church still make themselves felt. But militant atheists like you are becoming more marginalized. I hope you will understand it someday. I wish you this from the bottom of my heart.
                      11. +13
                        27 December 2018 20: 20
                        Quote: Halado romane
                        Almost 70% of respondents expressed their confidence.

                        Well, then I enter those 30% that the churches do not trust.
                        Ask Shpakovsky, he will popularly explain to you about the Pareto law. laughing
          3. 0
            31 December 2018 20: 49
            Do you understand what donors understand?


            Everyone understands everything ... *))) I here read your conversation with interest. The question is, if they are such "good Samaritans" and patriots (which is generally doubtful - I will explain why later. They are, first of all, just clerics turn out) what for they donate money to the temple, and not to the actual planes, tanks, ships, etc. ? *))) After all, if my memory serves me "not a man in a temple, but a temple in a man", isn't it? They would donate money to a warship, but if they wanted to pray, they stuck their cross there, or what else could they stick or hang a mona on any seaside dune, gathered in a crowd, prayed - and that's all ... *))) THE TEMPLE doesn't care for them ? For show ??? *))))
      2. BAI
        +20
        27 December 2018 10: 07
        Don’t confuse real donations and PR promotion. All of these are media faces and did it for self-promotion. Can you name at least one person who donated to the 62nd Moscow Cancer Hospital? Is there at least one media personality? But after the hospital was repaired, it’s a pleasure to see (of course, there was budget funding). The names of the donors are on the boards in the lobby of the main entrance.
        1. -12
          27 December 2018 10: 29
          Quote: BAI
          Don’t confuse real donations and PR promotion. All of these are media faces and did it for self-promotion.

          And where did you see an advertisement about this? This I have just given you a far from complete list of names. You will also be interested to know that a very large part of the donors, as it should be in the Orthodox tradition, prefer not to publicly name their names. Why do you consider yourself in the right to indiscriminately blame people? About 62 Moscow Hospital, why are you asking me a question? In general, I certainly can tell you about the charity of the Russian Orthodox Church, including in the field of medicine. Want to?
          1. BAI
            +13
            27 December 2018 10: 59
            And where did you see an advertisement about this?

            In many places, in particular - here. https://fondvoskresenie.ru/
            A whole site is dedicated to this. And he, too, is funding something.
        2. +10
          27 December 2018 10: 30
          That’s the answer to the zealots, there’s no PR, A child’s kiss on the tummy does not mean taking care of childhood.
          1. -10
            27 December 2018 10: 53
            Quote: Conductor
            Here is the answer to the zealots

            For example, I did not know that the temple was built on donations.
            Quote: Conductor
            there is no PR

            In such matters, this is not accepted!
            Quote: BAI
            All of these are media faces and did it for self-promotion.

            Judging by the surnames, they have already achieved everything in life and do not need self-promotion.
          2. BAI
            +15
            27 December 2018 11: 05
            In Sergiev Posad there is a school for deaf-mute children - littered with charity (the children are beautiful, it is pleasant to take pictures against their background). And there is a shelter for lepers and a shelter for children with cerebral palsy - from charity - either a penny or nothing, you won’t take a picture against the background of patients from these institutions.
            1. -16
              27 December 2018 12: 02
              And here you are and deal with this issue. Organize people. Inform them of the need for assistance to this institution. Help yourself. And then you are here, as an outside observer, speaking at best, at worst, like a self-appointed judge! I wrote about the charity work of our church above. This is a very serious help to people. Thank God. I’ll just tell you that our church is still separated from the state and is not financed from the budget. There may be help from the state, for example, in restoration, but unfortunately this is a very troublesome question - so many papers must be collected and the need for financing is justified ... And here is what you have is some kind of truly revolutionary hatred for rich people. A wealthy person does not mean bad and you should not measure everything with one measure. On the Internet you can easily find hundreds of famous names of musicians, athletes, writers, cultural figures. officials, etc. providing regular assistance to hospitals and sports facilities, schools and other social institutions from their personal funds. If you find their names on some site, this does not mean that they are PR. PR is a different concept and I don’t want to give examples of some of them. Given your political orientation, you obviously will not like it. Why arrange these showdowns? People build a temple for the glory of the Russian army! They don’t pull you by the collar. Well, you don’t mess with people. Don't you like it? Well, bypass the temples - your business!
              1. -12
                27 December 2018 14: 27
                Cheslav, for some reason my comment was deleted with a warning ... however, I hasten to inform you that I sincerely support you. The truth will strike its way, but Vera will not be trampled upon; she is True! So that we will build our Orthodox churches! Despite any opposition including and here in VO.
                1. The comment was deleted.
      3. +12
        27 December 2018 17: 09
        [quote = Cheslav Tsursky
        And we will build a temple in spite of spiteful critics and outright opponents. God is with us! [/ Quote] Is God with you? Is it not diabolical pride? Do (in your opinion) a charitable deed, but boast to the whole world with names and portraits "The Lord added: WITH THIS SO THAT THEY SEE YOU, do not do good for show to people. And you can do good in front of people, but not so that people look at your good; if you do good because of human praise, then at least you did it in your cage - it doesn't matter: you do it not for God, but for your vanity, and God looks at your heart and punishes or rewards - not the matter itself, but your intention ". "Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing (Matt. 6: 1-4)"
        1. -9
          27 December 2018 18: 03
          You read what Tsursky wrote about this above. Carefully. This is the answer to what you wrote. And the Orthodox Christians should not endure attacks on the Holy Church, which even here in mass numbers can be contemplated with displeasure. The temple is being built for people and not for show and for human voluntary donations. The Orthodox clergy will find it necessary to mark people for this with memorable lists within churches. No one will be upset. Godly deed! And of course God is with us! What more could you want? And when you say, "you are so and so" then you would be so kind as to speak specifically to whom you are addressing. And do not quote the Holy Scripture not on business! Show off!
  2. -29
    27 December 2018 05: 47
    you and Armata got to stupor. the contract for the first batch was signed and the beginning of its implementation has already begun. can you just laugh at least one country that has signed a contract for the 132 newest tanks? give any. China is just not accepted, they will not give such information to life. and leave you alone from the temple. Do not like, do not eat. Why would anyone need your speculation? there is a site of the Resurrection Fund. there everything is clear the amount of donations received at this moment is 1 856 125 415,76 rubles. What are you all looking for a black cat ah?
    1. +16
      27 December 2018 06: 14
      Dear Bull Terrier! Do you as a specialized tanker see how to use armature? In my opinion, as a techie, the ARVB is a purely anti-tank self-propelled guns, to support MBT. That is, their original 2000 as promised, no one was going to build.
      PS This is purely my opinion (although there are not only mine but also people who at one time graduated from the CTU)
      1. +8
        27 December 2018 06: 20
        I have it similar. I see her as a battlefield control machine more than MBT. coupled with the latest 90cm upgrades this would be great. she sees hears and recognizes further than everything. we’ll tell the whole regiment of them I don’t see yet. maybe in 15-20 years when such a technique completely displaces the combat machines.
      2. -12
        27 December 2018 10: 23
        Until the 30th year, 2000 platforms will be made, and then robotic tanks will go into the army.
    2. +13
      27 December 2018 06: 25
      About the temple, I agree with you. Well, this amount will not save the "father of Russian democracy."
    3. -5
      27 December 2018 07: 05
      contract signed
      Where is the extract from the order? Where is the seal.
      1. -13
        27 December 2018 07: 10
        are you Petrosyan?) did not recognize in makeup.
    4. -4
      27 December 2018 08: 37
      Quote: Bull Terrier
      you and Armata got to stupor

      You, my friend, do not throw such words! The "people", thinking about the absence of Armata in the nearest parking lot, cannot normally go to the toilet! A piece does not go down your throat! And you shamelessly destroy the dream of the "people" of hundreds of tank armies armed exclusively with Armata, you can't do that !!!!
      1. -4
        27 December 2018 08: 45
        yes it just kills it all. even the Germans to upgrade their 400 how much there Leo up to 7 can not. for the year, as many as 7 pieces, but to us all is not enough. 132 pieces) fi) will not be enough.
      2. -6
        27 December 2018 11: 07
        Quote: Serg65
        The "people", thinking about the absence of Armata in the nearest parking lot, cannot normally go to the toilet!

        And this laughing people in everything positive that is happening in Russia will find a negative moment (necessary) and try to depreciate everything. hiWe have the wrong system lol
  3. +15
    27 December 2018 05: 49
    I agree the place was not well chosen. It was necessary in Washington to build and organize daily flights of military transport aircraft for the departure of spiritual needs.
  4. +1
    27 December 2018 05: 49
    The soldier must endure all the hardships and deprivations of military service (c)
    1. +31
      27 December 2018 05: 58
      The soldier must endure all the hardships and deprivations of military service (c)

      In the church or something.
      The army is not an institution of noble maidens ... the institute of political officers in the Russian army decided to be replaced by priests ... this is not serious at the present time.
      Faith is a personal matter for every person, regardless of place of work, service and residence.
      1. -28
        27 December 2018 06: 59
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        In the church or something.

        Are you sick of the fact that a soldier went to church? Do not want to, nobody drags you personally to the temple. Fuck you to other prohibitions and decide for them, they need the Church to go or not.
        1. +30
          27 December 2018 07: 30
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          In the church or something.

          Are you sick of the fact that a soldier went to church? Do not want to, nobody drags you personally to the temple. Fuck you to other prohibitions and decide for them, they need the Church to go or not.

          Here’s how, and why then is churching going on at the state level? This is coercion, just indirect.
          1. -29
            27 December 2018 07: 32
            Quote: free

            Here’s how, and why then is churching going on at the state level? This is coercion, just indirect.

            Why didn’t you resent the destruction of the temples by the Bolsheviks, which was not indirect, but direct.
            1. +22
              27 December 2018 07: 35
              [quote = Alexander Romanov] [quote = free]
              Here's how, and why then the churching then goes on at the state level? This is coercion, just indirect. [/ Quote]
              Why were you not outraged by the destruction of the temples by the Bolsheviks, which was not indirect, but direct. [/ Quote

              There was a reason for this, and it did not last long. And this did not undermine the defense.
              1. -9
                27 December 2018 07: 44
                Quote: free
                .And this did not undermine defense.

                Then it is also better to rebuild the temples in the beginning of 1943. Probably the time has come.
                1. +10
                  27 December 2018 14: 20
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Quote: free
                  .And this did not undermine defense.

                  Then it is also better to rebuild the temples in the beginning of 1943. Probably the time has come.

                  Is this a bit of an attempt at proof? laughing
              2. -6
                27 December 2018 10: 51
                Quote: free
                There was a reason for this, and it did not last long.

                This continued (with varying degrees of intensity) until about Brezhnev times. Those. 40 years minimum.
            2. +2
              29 December 2018 20: 50
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Why didn’t you resent the destruction of temples?

              it does not disturb me even now. religion is an opium for the people, a childhood illness of humanity, a prosthesis of justice and honesty. the consecration of a spaceship with a pop is a bright indicator of insanity and phimosis of the brain of both the modern people and its leaders. the temple of trophy scrap metal is on a par with this insanity. in the "saints of the 90s," brothers consecrated their "geldings", is that not the same?
          2. -4
            27 December 2018 11: 13
            Quote: free
            Here’s how, and why then is churching going on at the state level? This is coercion, just indirect.

            How is it selective in you, but as in synagogues, mosques? This is not coercion, but freedom Yes
        2. +28
          27 December 2018 07: 33
          Fuck you to other prohibitions and decide for them, they need the Church to go or not.

          Ha... belay Roman, well, you turned down ... I forbade?
          Get fucked up ... I just say that the army should do its own thing ... fight.
          And the church drag into it somehow does not fit with this appointment.
          A direct example ... when the Arabs during military service ... drop everything and start to pray ... it’s no good.
          1. -14
            27 December 2018 07: 38
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            Roman, well, you have bent ...

            Not Roman, okay, that's okay
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            I just say that the army should do its job ... to fight.

            She is at war
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            And the church drag into it somehow does not fit with this appointment.

            For almost 1000 years, the Church was in the army and no one said why the soldiers needed God.
            You yourself begin to understand (realize) stupidity
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            .when the Arabs during military service ... drop everything and begin to pray ... it is no good.

            We are not Arabs! And how Arabs fight everyone knows
            1. +21
              27 December 2018 07: 47
              Sorry Alexander smile for Roman ... I'm in a hurry for a herd of thoughts.
              In 988, Prince Vladimir (the official Baptist of Rus), in order to strengthen his power, which was shaken at that time, over heavily oppressed conquered tribes, fire, sword and great blood, forced the Slavs subject to them to abandon their original gods, symbolizing ancient Slavic ancestors, and accept faith in the God of a strange people.

              That is, here the church was used for their own purposes to strengthen the central authority from above, not counting the customs from below.
              It is also happening to some extent now.
              Since the Minister of Defense himself goes to church, why not voluntarily forcibly send the rest to the church.
              1. -7
                27 December 2018 07: 49
                Quote: The same LYOKHA
                Since the Minister of Defense himself goes to church, why don’t they voluntarily force others to send t

                It will not work, you can’t be forced to believe forcibly. And if you do this in an orderly manner, it will be worse. No one will give an order for compulsion.
                1. +14
                  27 December 2018 08: 19
                  For most of the inhabitants of RI, the church was obligatory, but for the ridicule and criticism of the article were, and yes, you want to believe it, you do not want to send it to hard labor, all at will.
                2. +1
                  29 December 2018 20: 54
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  It will not work, you can’t be forced to believe forcibly.

                  but no one will believe, but they will be obliged to walk. and without order, simply, at the request of, or a hint, at the request of the commander
              2. +1
                27 December 2018 08: 52
                Quote: The same LYOKHA
                Since the Minister of Defense himself goes to church, why don’t they voluntarily forcibly send the rest to the church?

                laughing When the company was forcibly voluntarily driven to the lecture of the political commander on the Marxist-Leninist approach to the fulfillment of combat training tasks - was this normal? When the deputy politician, to put a tick to himself, held a party-Komsomol meeting during the exercises, is this also normal? Well, yes, the temple is not Leninist !!!!
          2. -4
            27 December 2018 08: 46
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            A direct example ... when the Arabs during military service ... drop everything and start to pray ... it’s no good.

            laughing Aleksey, don't make a fuss! Moreover, do not compare Russian soldiers with Arabs!
            1. +13
              27 December 2018 08: 50
              Aleksey, don't make a fuss! Moreover, do not compare Russian soldiers with Arabs!

              Well, you are just an example and not a comparison. hi
              The qualities of our ordinary soldier and junior command staff were fully manifested in the two Chechen wars ... here I was convinced that our guys are able to fight even in conditions of betrayal to the end .. a very sore subject for me.
              Yes, and in Syria, ordinary commandos and flyers showed themselves excellently ... I'm proud that they are my compatriots.
        3. +12
          27 December 2018 10: 49
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Do not want to, nobody drags you personally to the temple. Fuck you

          What a soulful, I would say, magnificent speech of the defender of the FAITH! recourse
          1. Alf
            +9
            27 December 2018 19: 42
            Quote: victor50
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Do not want to, nobody drags you personally to the temple. Fuck you

            What a soulful, I would say, magnificent speech of the defender of the FAITH! recourse

            But he does not know how otherwise; rudeness is considered a normal occurrence. People here are signed by adult names - Sergey, Igor, Vitaliy. And he is Sanya. As was Sanka in childhood, and remained.
        4. 0
          28 December 2018 11: 21
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Are you sick of the fact that a soldier went to church? Do not want to, nobody drags you personally to the temple.
          Yes, everything is simple - a person has not been in the line of fire, hence, hate God; he somewhat forgot or does not know the old adage that "there are no atheists under powerful shelling in the trenches."
    2. -1
      27 December 2018 08: 43
      Quote: passerby
      The soldier must endure all the hardships and deprivations of military service (c)

      And where now to find such a soldier? The soldier has a loving mommy and daddy (on occasion scribbling in nete about hardships and hardships), so these mommy and daddy as soon as the little smsochka about hardships and hardships have come away, at once they cut the wing commander!
  5. +4
    27 December 2018 05: 49
    God will help laughing
    1. +4
      27 December 2018 08: 53
      Quote: Pessimist22
      God will help laughing

      You are unlikely!
      1. +5
        27 December 2018 08: 57
        I don’t need it, the army will help, the collective prayer will be read and overthrown by the adversary laughing
        1. Alf
          +7
          27 December 2018 19: 45
          Quote: Pessimist22
          I don’t need it, the army will help, the collective prayer will be read and overthrown by the adversary laughing

          In addition to collective prayer, it would be good to go on the attack for Armata, covered from the air by the Su-57. And then it will come out as in the Crimean War - For God, the king and middle name, guys, with smooth-bore against the fittings, go! Someone run.
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. -2
        27 December 2018 07: 15
        I agree with this approach to faith and we will not go far from Svidomo. And the descendants in the future will only be grateful to us for this temple and no one will have a question by then what, how. hi
        1. Alf
          +7
          27 December 2018 19: 47
          Quote: Rusland
          And the descendants in the future will only be grateful to us for this temple

          With such an attitude to science, industry, education, as in modern Russia, one would live to see these grandchildren.
      2. +16
        27 December 2018 07: 19
        Worse when her turns out from Russian churches
        And in my opinion it’s worse when demolished. schools, hospitals.
        And what do you understand in temples? This remake can conditionally be called a temple. For all your canons
        1. -16
          27 December 2018 07: 25
          Quote: Gardamir
          And what do you understand in temples? This remake can conditionally be called a temple. For all your canons

          The temple specialist said, from the sight of which he turns it inside out.
          1. +17
            27 December 2018 07: 29
            temple specialist
            maybe not a specialist. But this temple in my town, even under communists, performed services.
            1. -21
              27 December 2018 07: 30
              Quote: Gardamir
              But this temple in my town, even under communists, performed services.

              Soon you’ll run to the temple yourself.
              1. +21
                27 December 2018 07: 31
                Soon you’ll run to the temple yourself.
                When there is nothing to say, a smooth transition to rudeness.
                1. -10
                  27 December 2018 07: 34
                  Quote: Gardamir
                  When there is nothing to say, a smooth transition to rudeness.

                  Well, if you saw rudeness in this, then you are just sorry, as a person. And you will run to the temple, without a doubt, each has his own time.
                  1. -12
                    27 December 2018 11: 24
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    And you will run to the temple, without a doubt, each has his own time.

                    He’ll run, but he won’t tell anyone about it! But as he gets rid of his ass, he completely forgets about it.
                    1. +11
                      27 December 2018 14: 17
                      Such
                      We have a different view of the environment, but it turns out I'm right if you can only be rude. I don’t get personal.
                      1. -6
                        27 December 2018 16: 00
                        Quote: Gardamir
                        I don’t get personal.

                        Sorry if I offended you, I didn’t want to.
            2. BAI
              +4
              27 December 2018 10: 12
              And in the cellars of this temple (in the underground temple) - they shot. Traces of bullets still remain. What's next?
    2. +6
      27 December 2018 07: 15
      Do you yourself often visit the temple?
      1. -13
        27 December 2018 07: 23
        Quote: Old Tankman

        Do you yourself often visit the temple?

        I hear this question so often. Are you trying to excuse yourself by the fact that someone rarely goes to the temple?


        Although some "our" themselves are not averse to helping Brzezinski in this
        1. +15
          27 December 2018 07: 43
          Can I have a specific page, publisher and year of publication?
          Here in front of me is this book of books Moscow edition of International Relations 2010. Well, I don’t find such a quote.
          1. -18
            27 December 2018 08: 00
            Quote: Old Tankman

            Can I have a specific page, publisher and year of publication?

            There is a link to youtu for you. Get on a par with them in the fight against the Russian Church. There is a desire?
            1. -4
              27 December 2018 20: 07
              Alexander, they have long been on a par with Brzezinski, and so!
  7. +49
    27 December 2018 05: 54
    Actually. Insanity at the top grows stronger. On our island, people were also against building a temple on Victory Square ... And the results? It’s worth as cute. By the way, how are things going with the landing churches? Isn't it time to introduce descentable mosques and synagogues to the state of the armed forces? !! Well, the heathens immediately grove with idols and priests !!! The church has direct funding from the budget, this is no secret ... Gentlemen, comrades !!! Officers and warrant officer! Petty officers and sergeant! Soldiers and sailors !!! Let us recall the science of walking on the machine and beat the adversary !!! (sarcasm) But seriously, I repeat again !!! Not a large number of divisions that really have modernized equipment and prepared L / C for the states of the weather will not do. And the cries of the mighty Daggers, advanced Poseidons and oh my God I will tell sedition Caliber !!! This is all about nothing !!! Here the Warriors have still not been provided with all ... The main technique is the end of 90 beginning of 2000 !!! I don’t talk about the fleet !!! (By the way, is there still not going to build the main temple of the Navy somewhere in the Crimea?) It’s sad all this ... I know now comrades will come and cheer on minus !!! Yours faithfully hi
    1. -3
      27 December 2018 06: 11
      Tomb of the Admirals or Vladimir Cathedral. Sevastopol Also built on donations.
      1. +18
        27 December 2018 06: 23
        And if you still remember how much was stolen during the construction of these temples and tombs ... I am not against the temples! But why blow it with fanfare? As they say, God is in us and you can communicate with him without a temple (synagogues, mosques, pagodas, shrines, etc.). I see the meaning of this building in only one thing !!! - Vanity of Mr. Shoigu! (Who only appropriated the army general to him?) His ceiling was deputy on the rear !!! A good organizer, as the Minister of Defense is not bad, but why drag religion into the affairs of Moscow Region and put it on display?
        1. -9
          27 December 2018 06: 29
          in 2011 at Moscow State University there were Christmas educational readings on that topic. a public opinion poll was specifically made for them. and so, according to its results, among the military the number of believers grew by about 5 percent a year. at that time, 3/4 of those surveyed were sampled in all districts and fleets. then draw your own conclusions. I can give you an example if you want. I personally drove many to be baptized in the Nevsky Temple. asked for yourself.
          1. +17
            27 December 2018 07: 19
            Oh how! Among the population of the country, the percentage of believers is not growing, but among the warriors so leaps and bounds! Doesn't it seem strange?
            1. -10
              27 December 2018 07: 25
              no. It does not seem. Yes, and with the population I have a different opinion. Among my friends it is growing. This is not statistics of course. just watching around you.
            2. +7
              27 December 2018 14: 57
              This is just another nonsense flew into the head of the Minister of Defense and he undertook to implement it. There is nothing to explain this, moreover, I think that the complete nonsense is that the temple is being built on voluntary donations. The temple is being built for budget money, that's for sure, I admit that there are donations, but there are only a small amount of them.
              1. -7
                27 December 2018 17: 30
                Well, then your speculation. no more. and do not fool it. and 100 and 200 years ago they built churches for donations to the glory of Russian weapons. as an example the Cathedral of Christ the Savior
                1. Alf
                  +6
                  27 December 2018 19: 53
                  Quote: Bull Terrier
                  as an example the Cathedral of Christ the Savior

                  The decision to create the first church in honor of the victory in the Patriotic War of 1812 was made immediately by Emperor Alexander I, the laying of the church in the name of Christ the Savior according to the project of the artist Karl Vitberg took place on October 12, 1817

                  There is a difference. The Cathedral of Christ the Savior was built AFTER WAR, and not in the pre-war period, when every penny is dear.
                  1. -6
                    27 December 2018 20: 28
                    perhaps right now it is important from a historical point of view. people began to forget the heroes of their land. all the same, apart from the temple itself, there will be a multimedia museum complex dedicated to the history of the Russian army. including modern time. will become a place of attraction for modern youth. who decided to serve the country. from the point of view of PR it is quite reasonable. Well, I do not like this let's take St. Nicholas Cathedral for example, take in St. Petersburg.
                    1. +4
                      28 December 2018 09: 09
                      Quote: Bull Terrier
                      Now it is important from a historical point of view. people began to forget the heroes of their land

                      Faith and religion (the church) have never been identified. But he noticed in the 90s and zero there was a fashion for the church. The bandits went there regularly (it seems, before and after each crime), donated money, the priests went to jail, in beautiful words hiding, that everyone can turn to God through them, but they didn’t go to other prisoners who donated to the church It was all disgusting. I watched the pictures: the priest of the church, not far from home, traveled with a guard on the 600th Merc (it’s already in the zero. I met people who, through a word, referred to God, regularly visited the church, lied and impersonated right there, in situations which, I thought, only in bad novels are possible. So faith is one thing, then all believers have their own, very personal relationships, which are not mentioned especially, and religion, church, faith is the most successful a business project in the history of mankind: here, here I would like to ask the ardent and rude (?!) defenders of Orthodoxy how many of them even looked into the Bible?
                      1. Alf
                        0
                        28 December 2018 20: 15
                        Quote: victor50
                        Here, I would like to ask the ardent and boorish (?!) sometimes defenders of Orthodoxy how many of them even looked into the Bible?

                        Well done, Victor! Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye.
          2. +4
            27 December 2018 17: 25
            Quote: Bull Terrier
            I personally drove many to be baptized in the Nevsky Temple. asked for yourself.
            Do not remember yourself young? All the same, it’s the entertainment of a soldier, before that they drove to dances for this.
        2. -13
          27 December 2018 07: 07
          Quote: Nehist

          And if you still remember how much was stolen during the construction of these temples and tombs ..

          What amount do you want?
        3. -6
          27 December 2018 09: 14
          Quote: Nehist
          And if you recall how much was stolen during the construction of these temples and tombs

          How many? Remember please?
          And remember how much was stolen during the closure and destruction of these temples!
    2. +14
      27 December 2018 06: 41
      Quote: Nehist
      Sadly all this ...

      How many fought about the temple on Victory Square? And still stuck!
      Quote: Nehist
      mosques and synagogues

      Forgot about the datsans !!! hi
      1. +11
        27 December 2018 06: 52
        So I wrote about him ... And the rallies and petitions were filed and the voting was held ... They put one devil (((
        1. +7
          27 December 2018 07: 14
          Quote: Nehist
          One devil set (((

          But now they are proud! And it was built by the rabbis and jamshuds ....
          1. +14
            27 December 2018 07: 22
            You will not believe me, no matter who built it. The fact is that he is out of place! Well, they would have built it higher, beyond Orbit, I would not have been indignant. Initially, in general, instead of 34 they wanted to put it and remove the guns. The fact that the authorities and priests do not shine with the opinion of the Norod anyway sooner or later will come to their side. Have you got a gun on the pass yet? And then suddenly, and there they decide to make a chapel. And what a beautiful place and an occasion as if there is ...
            1. +6
              27 December 2018 07: 33
              Quote: Nehist
              gun still not demolished?

              The gun is still standing! But below, near the landfill, a cross was erected! What for ?
              1. +13
                27 December 2018 07: 43
                Apparently at the landfill, the relics of the saints are buried !!! Damned komunyaki brought to the execution of the lamb of God and threw off in decay and from the top 50 years covered with rubbish (sarcasm) You see, the chapel will soon be built, there is just a substitution of concepts. It’s like Rezun, in his Icebreaker he uses genuine documents! But here's how he presents them ... As they say, the glass is half full or the glass is half empty ???
                1. +6
                  27 December 2018 08: 03
                  People say: They put an end to Kholmsk ......
                2. +5
                  27 December 2018 14: 01
                  Quote: Nehist
                  a chapel will be built soon

                  Our church has occupied the October cinema!
    3. -4
      27 December 2018 09: 12
      Quote: Nehist
      By the way, is the main naval temple there somewhere in the Crimea still not going to be built?

      For those who are especially suffering, like you, the main temple of the Navy is located in Kronstadt, built (well, it must be) with voluntary donations! Active participation in the creation of St. Nicholas Cathedral was taken by Admiral Makarov, and Nars of the Red Army Muklevich took part in the sacking of the temple. Plates with the names and surnames of all sailors and officers heroically killed for their homeland were partly broken, partly put on the steps!
    4. +12
      27 December 2018 09: 20
      So almost landing churches and mosques already exist. Last year at Rembath I personally saw both the Orthodox Church and the Muslim mosque. True in army tents. But there were. And the priest with the mullah were from the officers, judging by the anniversary medals on a cassock and dressing gown.
      Someone went inside, someone, as I walked by. To each his own.
      But for those who entered these temples, this was for some reason needed. So so be it.
      After returning from business trips, we always went to the graves of Oslyaby and Peresvet in Moscow. In a completely small temple on the territory of the Dynamo plant ... Muscovites did not know it all back then ...
      1. BAI
        +4
        27 December 2018 09: 49
        Well, all the same, not quite in the territory of the plant - in the Old Simon Monastery.

        Entrance to the Staro-Simonov Monastery at the end of a long narrow passage between the fences in the factory
  8. +12
    27 December 2018 06: 00
    I remembered the old slogan - we are all as one approving fellow It’s interesting, but in Chechnya or in Dagestan they are going to the Orthodox church, were they also recorded in the Orthodox believers, or is it just the prerogative of other areas?
    1. +25
      27 December 2018 06: 06
      No, there Kadyrov will build the main mosque of Orthodox wars under the auspices of the Moscow Region! As he put it ... Allah gives him money (Allah already has GDP, soon they will make him Jesus with us, he has a lot of apostles)
      1. +12
        27 December 2018 06: 37
        Quote: Nehist
        he has a lot of apostles)

        Renounce, the cock doesn’t even crow!
  9. A.
    -13
    27 December 2018 06: 12
    Temples are needed no less than guns. The guns did not help the Roman and Byzantine empires, as everyone knows.
    A short memory, however, and for people like you, one god-womb, and you visit temples, but consumer churches, shopping and entertainment centers.
    But God does not scold.
    1. +16
      27 December 2018 06: 28
      Yes Yes!!! You are apparently a champion of the theory that the flesh may be weak but the spirit is cheerful !!! So I will answer you !!! In a healthy body healthy mind!!! And I do not live to eat! And I eat in order to live !!! Well, to you with such views in the monastery ... To kill the flesh and take care of spiritual health ... (not for nothing are blessed in Russia and they called those who are now diagnosed by psychiatrists)
    2. -12
      27 December 2018 07: 10
      Quote: Anatolyevich
      But God does not scold.

      You can’t explain this for the time being. But how what happens in life, so immediately, Lord, why, Lord help
      1. +4
        27 December 2018 17: 32
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Anatolyevich
        But God does not scold.

        You can’t explain this for the time being. But how what happens in life, so immediately, Lord, why, Lord help
        I don’t understand, are you asking gentlemen or gentlemen for your opponents?
    3. +9
      27 December 2018 07: 44
      Well, of course you are the original! A short memory as I see this something, this is how it is necessary to turn everything out about the Roman and Byzantine! You would still remember the Russian-Japanese, or the first Chechen with an airborne regiment (of course, Orthodox)! By the way, the Bible is very clear about everything, including such "patriotic messages."
    4. BAI
      +8
      27 December 2018 09: 43
      The guns did not help the Roman and Byzantine empires, as everyone knows.

      Did faith help? Rome fell under the blows of the Gentiles, Byzantium - under the blows of the Crusaders (the Turks had just finished off the recumbent).
    5. Alf
      +6
      27 December 2018 19: 59
      Quote: Anatolyevich
      But God does not scold.

      God is not in the church, God is in the soul. A believer prays within himself, but for an unbeliever, build at least ten churches. After the 91st, all of us suddenly became believers, probably after the counter-revolution they suddenly saw the light. I heard several times from the old ones at the sight of Putin-Medvedevs holding candles-"candlestick".
    6. +3
      27 December 2018 22: 43
      Quote: Anatolyevich
      The guns did not help the Roman and Byzantine empires, as everyone knows.

      And what were the guns in the Roman Empire ?! belay belay
    7. 0
      28 December 2018 12: 34
      Quote: Anatolyevich
      The guns did not help the Roman and Byzantine empires, as everyone knows

      Temples too, alas.
      Quote: Anatolyevich
      A short memory, however, and for people like you, one god-womb, and you visit temples, but temples of consumption, shopping and entertainment centers

      There are many chronicles over many years, where representatives of our government in churches stay on Orthodox holidays. The question arose, if you look at this chronicle, how many of these believers have been accused of embezzlement and other crimes afterwards? Serdyukov must have prayed ... not far from the patriarch.
  10. +8
    27 December 2018 06: 17
    I personally and to some extent have never been "in the trenches", but everyone I heard spoke on this topic "atheists do not exist in war."
    1. +1
      27 December 2018 06: 23
      I personally and to some extent have never been "in the trenches", but everyone I heard spoke on this topic "atheists do not exist in war."

      In life, a lot of cases without war occur after which you will inevitably believe in God.
      And I was once a convinced Komsomol atheist ... smile scoop so to speak ... and now with age I understand how little atheists know about the world around them.
      The horizons of atheists are fixated on material things and absolutely zero in intangible ones.
      1. +6
        27 December 2018 07: 24
        And what is your horizons fixated on? On faith in God?
        1. +9
          27 December 2018 07: 39
          As correctly said
          Nehist (Alexander)
          hope in God below and do not squander.
          There are moments in a person’s life when he has nowhere to turn to and no one to turn to ... when it seems that everything is lost and life is over ... here in the soul you need to have support on your moral strength ... and what happens in the soul man and most importantly why you can’t describe and understand any matter.
      2. +4
        27 December 2018 10: 34
        The horizons of atheists are fixated on material things and absolutely zero in intangible ones.
        I deliberately read again and again all the comments under this bilious article to the end, I want to make sure of the volume of stupid obstinacy and poison that is growing every year. The wedge is thoroughly hammered into society and many do not notice it at all. I am actually an atheist, and a thorough one. But with all my "zero outlook" I understand absolutely clearly that without faith Russia will not go far. My grandfather went through the war, did not believe in God, but when my grandmother died, he went to light candles, what is it? This is not to say that everyone ran to urgently believe in God and build temples, but that faith is necessary for those who cannot cope on their own, especially in the army and not only. Even according to your "zero" atheist I understand the inner strength of a person when he has something to believe in. We do not have leaders worthy of Stalin and are not expected, there are no tsars, there is no idea, and they decided to finish off the last pillar of the church, no matter what means. The article is one of these methods. In Russia, in truth, 2 troubles are fools and roads. hi
        1. +4
          27 December 2018 10: 46
          I am actually an atheist, and a thorough one. But with all my "zero outlook" I understand absolutely clearly that without faith Russia will not go far.

          Well, here you are offended ... I'm not against the fact that you are an atheist and convinced of the same ... why did you decide that Russia without faith would suddenly not go far?
          Will leave also as if with a great desire.
          Remember the breakthrough of the country of the Soviets in industrialization in the 30s of the last century ... the paradox would seem to have blown up and destroyed temples ... the complete domination of atheists and no Faith in God, and yet the country has achieved the elimination of illiteracy, the electrification of the whole country, a general economic recovery the country was there ... but the damned war destroyed everything and again and again we had to be reborn like a phoenix from the ashes.
          We do not have and are not foreseeing leaders worthy of Stalin, there are no kings, there is no idea and we decided to finish off the last support of the church, no matter by what means.

          You saw how our rulers go to church and pray ... I look at all this and cannot help feeling that it’s all duplicity ... a person prays to God but doesn’t really believe in him in his soul.
          1. +5
            27 December 2018 10: 57
            You saw how our rulers go to church and pray ... I look at all this and cannot help feeling that it’s all duplicity ... a person prays to God but doesn’t really believe in him in his soul.
            And I saw how ordinary people go to church, and soldiers too. And to me, before our BB prays, the people are more important, the spirit of the people is more important. At the expense of the jerk, give an alternative to look at the faith and the church in a secondary way. There is no alternative yet, there is none. Young people are mired in vices and we are to blame for this, we no longer believe in anything. The hardest times are coming, and we destroy ourselves from the inside.
            1. +5
              27 December 2018 11: 03
              There is no alternative yet, there is none. Young people are mired in vices and we are to blame for this, we no longer believe in anything. The hardest times are coming, and we destroy ourselves from the inside.

              You are right ... next year will not be easier than that ... well, let's look together for what unites us in spite of differences in faith, position and other nuances.
              Our people exist, children run in schools in droves ... smile (head popping from them sometimes) means we have a future.
              We survived the restructuring of Gorbachev, the rule of Yeltsin was a much worse time than now ... and no matter what I believe in the vitality of my people.
              1. +2
                27 December 2018 11: 08
                and no matter what, I believe in the vitality of my people.
                I believe too drinks This is probably why where I can "resist", where I can "step on", and where I can’t I can only believe in something.
        2. +4
          27 December 2018 11: 37
          My father, was a "hardened" communist, stubborn to the bone marrow and ideological, was very proud of his involvement in the Party, but during the "period of stagnation" I was transported as a baby thousands of kilometers from the place where they lived and BAPTIZED belay feel . And then they laughed many times over how it was (well, there really is a lot of funny things) and then I began to notice that when leaving home (more than for work) he baptized the door three times !! belay He was a simple worker, he didn’t join the party for a career or a position of boss, but that didn’t stop him from being a very religious person, otherwise he would not risk it (baptize his son).
          Why did I write that religion is very important in the Army, I had good friends who killed enemies in the service (absolutely by right or by law, everything is okay, not some mercenaries), even those of them who were 100% optimists in life and jokers, laughingly told terrible stories from the service (when they almost disappeared to God themselves), and so even they sometimes started conversations (which means they were completely worn out) on the topic "is it not a sin that I killed a man then!" Think about it, these are NOT broken people, NOT drowning their grief in a horseshoe, but very cheerful and sociable, but sometimes they were even covered. Someone will say - it is not a priest who is needed here, but a psychiatrist. But to this I will answer - as soon as someone after the murder of another person is helped not by a priest, but by a psychiatrist, then this person and the psychiatrist and the Country are subject to immediate destruction, for this is "the refuge of Satan, for if not by faith in God, but by something base, Murder , all these are no longer people - they are Murderers and they need to be destroyed as soon as possible (from self-preservation).
          1. +6
            27 December 2018 15: 44
            otherwise he would not risk it (baptize his son)


            There was no risk in this, don't be fancy. Himself, being an officer, he baptized his own in 83rd and 87th. As far as I remember - 5 rubles. Everyone baptized. For a simple reason, it's a tradition. Many had elderly believing relatives, it seems like it is impossible for them to pray for the unbaptized. I've baptized so that the grandmother would calm down. Probably the best church time is the 70s-80s. The church did not spread rot, and did not spoil. And even the "atheists" had some respect for the priests. "Atheist" in quotes, because there are practically no such people.
            Or they have other ways to protect the psyche, or there were no situations on the verge of madness.
            The church is needed, do not argue. There are no substitutes for her yet. Vodka, psychotherapists are even worse. Only that PR that is now building churches, destroying the church and faith.
    2. +13
      27 December 2018 06: 34
      You can believe in anything !!! And in the trenches the main commandment Hope for God and do not blame yourself ... Otherwise ... There simply must be at least something or something to believe, otherwise the roof will blow ...
    3. +11
      27 December 2018 07: 23
      And I have been more than once. Turn happens and quite a lot.
      1. +8
        27 December 2018 09: 26
        Wow ... But that is also faith. It’s just that God is called differently in it .. Good luck, arrogance, training ... Yes, in different ways. Just then, when it’s hard to light up because the jerk is difficult to explain why the last one didn’t get from such a distance ...
        1. +5
          27 December 2018 11: 44
          I read the description of the heroic battle of the armored train guard commander in Chechen (if they are not lying) there was a kneading and the commander "on the field" was like a Berserker from an ambush (of course) hit him with a sniper, hooked him several times (and strongly) and he did not see where he shot from the grenade launcher offhand, on the run covered his tunic into the tunic belay Then a long hospital and rewarding, but this moment I can only explain by Faith.
          Or there was a video where the engineering group was walking along the route and a 152 mm land mine was blown up near the first at a distance of 5 meters, when the dust settled - not a scratch on it, he himself changed his face to the cameras passing by the funnel (not horror, but surprisingly) said " I understand that from me small pieces should have remained and scattered hundreds of meters, but here in this. " belay
  11. +9
    27 December 2018 06: 20
    Since at least 2014 it's time to measure the budget for the T-90 and Calibers. An absolutely absurd course towards an inappropriate "flash mob" in every area.
    Once upon a time it was heard from the President about the sanctity of quiet old churches. ... And now the course is on "megafaberge".
  12. +22
    27 December 2018 06: 23
    Everything is right! Why do we need tanks, guns, machine guns and any new weapons?
    The main thing is that there should be as many churches, icons, candles, monks and, of course, solvent parishioners as possible. And then no enemy is afraid of us.
    If the enemy attacks us, we will come out to meet him with icons and chants.
    The enemy will get scared and run away! The danger is eliminated, the people and Putin celebrate victory ...

    And with this new Alabinovsky temple of the sun, we will be invincible at all !!! wassat
    Putin's pension reform and a large number of churches will save Russia! wassat
  13. +5
    27 December 2018 06: 26
    How "the church is not necessary"? And "fasteners", how to "strengthen" "fasteners"? wink
  14. +20
    27 December 2018 06: 29
    “So that every square meter of the temple is symbolic, for this we will cast the steps of the temple from captured German technology”,
    ... It was very symbolic and relevant, if the steps of the temple were cast from American Abrams ... But where to get them ... Yes, and the "partners" will be offended ... And the floors will be laid with tiles from captured Swedish, Turkish, French guns .. ? .. Hang on to the museums and you will probably get dirty ...
    1. +5
      27 December 2018 07: 02
      Yes, from what to cast, it would always be found, the main idea is to correctly designate .... among the veterans, too, a lot of things would be found if they fell off!
  15. +13
    27 December 2018 06: 37
    it’s enough to see what assistants the Minister of Defense is working on, they showed us one thing at a time, if such believers would be better to keep the commandments instead of showing off
  16. +21
    27 December 2018 06: 55
    “Suddenly” nearly two billion fallen is not the product of “dumping by the whole world.” This is quite normal, so the amount collapsed overnight on a beautiful toy. Where the third question comes from, and it’s not very important, if only not from the budget of the War Ministry. If there is sadness from there, there is no - I do not care, for example, from where Shoigu dug them.
    But I am sure that this is a budget.

    Let's just say this: initially, naturally, a budget. But they are trying to close the hole in it from the DD fund. According to the stories that continue to serve today, this year the prize has been substantially cut - this is such a floating money deed, which the commander as he wanted before, and gifted his subordinates. A company officer, for example, could get a hundred or so tyr at the end of the year, if he didn’t drive a bull to his superiors, he didn’t have any flights, he didn’t go to the courts - he behaved approximately, in short. Well, the level of the castle commander could well count on half a lyama. This year, they explained to the majority that the spirit should soar above the worldly essence.
    Well, I agree once again with Roman (more and more often, you know ...) - our Moscow Region played in noisy projects.
    I already wrote that as a result of the construction of the new Strategic Missile Forces Academy (with a hockey stadium - how can one do without it now?), Some missile regiments still hold equipment in the open air - no RPMs have been built.
    And soon the naval forces will receive a similar "gift" - the transfer of everything naval from St. Petersburg to Kronstadt - for a trifle of 100 yards ...
    And yes, is it time to change the style of hats for female military personnel? And then it’s just that they replaced the employees of the RA this year - the omission is brewing, you know ...
  17. +18
    27 December 2018 06: 56
    Shoigu our Kuropatkin? And how does the Kuropatkin command end? PD drowned and do not lift, an aircraft carrier with a crane on board. And here is a temple for 6000 thousand, for the entire Aratsky district chtoli?
    1. -11
      27 December 2018 07: 16
      Quote: Conductor
      6000 thousand temple

      Six thousand thousand is six million. There are no such temples.

      Quote: Conductor
      aratsky district

      Yeah. Ararat.

      This together is called "raised, but to wake up - forgotten."
      1. +12
        27 December 2018 07: 51
        ok, why is the temple for 6000 people in the entire Arbat district? Arranged?
        1. 0
          27 December 2018 09: 48
          Quote: Conductor
          Will arrange?

          Already better. With awakening wink

          Quote: Conductor
          why a temple for 6000 people, for the entire Arbat district?

          "Arbat District" will be far from Taman, don't you think? And for some reason, not to me, then to great leadership ... and I, although baptized, are not a frequent guest in churches request
  18. 0
    27 December 2018 06: 56
    For life and existence, we need not only machine guns with tanks .....
    We must think about the soul!
    I don’t seem religious, I relate to worshipers from the word NEVER! But there are those to whom this is all faith and peace! Let them, let them.
    Yes, throwing the top authorities, back and forth it's d-d-d-bad! So we have chosen, then we have or vice versa, now and always !!! It was necessary to think earlier.
  19. +12
    27 December 2018 07: 04
    Personally, this temple, with the remelting of weapons, putting up trophies for display, resembles a sacrificial altar!


    Do not mix the temple and the museum.
  20. +6
    27 December 2018 07: 07
    Well why not with the world on a thread.
    For each warrior, they voluntarily forced at least one thousand rubles. And the rest is the subject for research.
  21. The comment was deleted.
    1. +15
      27 December 2018 07: 20
      You do not confuse the army and the Minister of Defense. The army is one thing, but the ministers we have are stools, but they didn’t serve in the army
      1. -5
        27 December 2018 08: 33
        You do not confuse the army and the Minister of Defense
        It is not necessary to divide, it is not appropriate. Found the "guilty".
        1. +9
          27 December 2018 09: 16
          The army will manage without the Minister of Defense, the General Staff is, but the Minister of Defense without the army is nonsense, but with a temple and priests)))))))
      2. 0
        27 December 2018 09: 27
        Quote: Conductor
        and the ministers we have are stools, but they didn’t serve in the army

        Before Serdyukov and Shoigu there were 6 .. SIX Karl "military" ministers - what is the result?
        I wanted to ask for a long time, why did you and Alma Ata escape?
        1. +9
          27 December 2018 11: 33
          Quote: Serg65
          Before Serdyukov and Shoigu there were 6 .. SIX Karl "military" ministers - what is the result?

          There was also S. Ivanov - a military man in the ass.
          And the essence of the result is that if you put, for example, Kirkorov at the head of the Moscow Region, but open up unprecedented financing compared to the end of the 90s and the beginning of zero, the result will be about the same as that of Kuzhugetich - the cut will be only differ.
          Because the foundations of military construction are set by the General Staff, which bears the main burden of responsibility for everything.
          1. -1
            27 December 2018 12: 28
            Quote: Moore
            if, for example, Kirkorov is put at the head of the Moscow Region

            Quote: Moore
            the basis of military development is set by the General Staff,

            Honestly, I did not understand your promise, i.e. at the head of the Ministry of Defense, at least put a grandmother with a kocharga, there’s no difference! The main thing is GSH! Then what is the conversation about in the article?
            Quote: Moore
            tailoring will only differ.

            what Here is my personal opinion .... the marshals and generals of the 90s, being ministers, like the military who passed the Crimea and the Rym from liteha to big stars, could steal less, and take more care of their army and funding has nothing to do with it ..... even half of the money that they grabbed from the reduction of the army and navy completely ensured a more or less normal existence of the Armed Forces! For example, the money that the Acting Head of the Central Department of Central Management and the Ministry of Defense of Russia, the real Colonel Viktor Vladimirovich Baskov, invested in promoting the "voice of Russia" of his son Kolenka would be enough for a five-year comfortable existence of a motorized rifle division!
            Quote: Moore
            The General Staff, carrying the main burden of responsibility for everything.

            Then the great Leninist Ustinov smashed his General Staff to pieces, probably so that the burden of responsibility would not be taken away from the old man laughing
  22. +13
    27 December 2018 07: 12
    Falsehood and hypocrisy ... we will defend ourselves against the heaps with prayers and brush off the sprinkles.
  23. 3vs
    +12
    27 December 2018 07: 13
    Why be surprised, someone always has something in construction.
    You look at someone's new house or a typewriter will appear ...

    “But he was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God came, he answered them: the kingdom of God will not come in a noticeable way, and they will not say: here it is, or: here, there. For behold, the kingdom of God is within you ”(Luke 17: 20-21).
    And we hit the construction of temples ...
  24. -19
    27 December 2018 07: 18
    The clergy in the army need. It has always been for centuries. So a temple is needed.
    1. +8
      27 December 2018 07: 58
      A temple is not needed in the park, albeit a military-patriotic one, but essentially entertaining, next to large parts. if necessary, there are a lot of temples right now and they can feed their flock without Shoigu and his Super Temple.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. +5
        27 December 2018 13: 15
        Well, Russia is not so 1000 years old, but it will be more. So who doesn’t have a decree for centuries, draw conclusions ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +1
            27 December 2018 13: 27
            Someone that hurts, however ... Well, nothing happens.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +3
                27 December 2018 13: 44
                You should know better, they wrote about Ramses, but I didn’t even know that there was a batch with them too. Okay, I think it's not scary - it's never too late to learn.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. +4
                    27 December 2018 16: 14
                    You? Well, congratulations! We will not touch the Chinese, why did the Egyptians not please you? Are you Jewish? And why then do you need the banners of the Slavic gods? You can’t remove the gesheft from them - now in the trend are crosses and icons.
    3. +6
      27 December 2018 09: 17
      In the army, the clergy are not needed from the word AT ALL. We need deputy commanders of educational and political work units, but only in the absence of a normal ideology their functions are curtailed.
    4. +9
      27 December 2018 10: 59
      Quote: Fungus
      The clergy in the army need

      It depends on what clergy. If one of those priests who rebuild in the remote villages of the church with their own hands, then of course. But Moscow tax collectors are better off and close.
  25. +16
    27 December 2018 07: 26
    Because the church is re-forming as a pillar of autocracy.
  26. -8
    27 December 2018 07: 49
    Judas also resented seeing the costly world pouring onto the head of the Savior
    That's the whole point of this article.
  27. -13
    27 December 2018 08: 23
    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    Why do we need icons instead of guns?

    By title. An incorrect message at the beginning leads to incorrect conclusions at the end.
    Everyone knows my attitude to the church and yet:

    To the question: “Why do we need icons instead of cannons?” I answer briefly - so that the cannons shoot where they need to be.

    The question, in principle, is posed incorrectly. You are trying to level and contrast different management priorities. It doesn’t happen anywhere or when. Lower control priorities (guns) are always subordinate to higher ones (icons). Let me remind you that a hybrid war is a war on all six management priorities, so we need guns and icons - icons (the spirit of a soldier) are more important.

    1. +13
      27 December 2018 08: 56
      To the question: “Why do we need icons instead of cannons?” I answer briefly - so that the cannons shoot where they need to be.

      Contradict yourself with your post. And what is the connection between the icons and the Dag, who are like Muslims, or Buryats, who are like Buddhists? In practice, it turns out miserably. A priest arrives at military unit No. XZ and the superiors in front of the formation say: "Disperse, Orthodox Christians in one line on the right flank, all the rest in a column of three on the left flank, stand up." And the priest begins to sprinkle the "Orthodox" with "holy water" from the tap, and more than half of the l / s stands aside and makes fun of them. So much for the rallying of the military collective, and at the same time the shooting of guns where necessary.
      1. -10
        27 December 2018 09: 02
        Quote: ruigat
        everyone else in a column of three on the left flank, become

        It would be interesting to see how you put three people in a column of three. laughing

        This is a minority in the West that controls the majority, but, thank God, it has not yet come to this, and I hope it will not.
        1. +8
          27 December 2018 09: 10
          This is a minority in the West that controls the majority, but, thank God, it has not yet come to this, and I hope it will not.

          Yah? And where have you been the last 30 years? Long gone.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  28. +8
    27 December 2018 08: 39
    Probably the oligarchy of the Russian Federation hopes that it will protect its icons and prayers from the PLA and the armies of the owners of the Fed and their slaves. But here I think that no garden plants. But the T-14 (15), Su-57, BRDZhK, can protect.
  29. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      27 December 2018 09: 12
      Well, Russians should live in Russian.

      Enlighten please, how is it?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +4
          27 December 2018 09: 24
          It’s clear how to walk in a swirl, dance to a squat, hold fasts, go to church on holidays, honor parents and authorities, sow rye and sing mournful folk songs.

          Somehow miserable and boring you have to be Russian.
          Moving science, exploring space, winning sports, burning out fascist countries - these are worthy of a REAL RUSSIAN!
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. +7
              27 December 2018 09: 37
              Among your traditions, you forgot to mention the use of methyl alcohol and cologne from a saucer. My relatives told me that collective farmers did this forever.

              Your relatives are clearly not Russian. What is methyl alcohol and saucer cologne? BIRCH JUICE from a can, here is OUR STANDARD!
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. +7
                  27 December 2018 10: 14
                  Have you ever seen a Soviet village shepherd alive?

                  I saw, and even managed to visit them for a short time. Moonshine did not drink, drank milk.
                  For Comrade Stalin, I drink only Armenian (Georgian) semi-sweet pomegranate wine and very rarely Armenian (Georgian) cognac!
                  1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Alf
              +4
              27 December 2018 20: 10
              Quote: Cunctator
              My relatives told me that collective farmers did this forever.

              And your relatives, who were on this collective farm?
              1. +3
                28 December 2018 02: 25
                Quote: Alf
                Quote: Cunctator
                My relatives told me that collective farmers did this forever.

                And your relatives, who were on this collective farm?

                How is it by whom? Those same shepherdesses-alcoholics and were wassat
                Only it was not a collective farm, but (t-s-s !! wink ) ... kibbutz laughing !
    2. +6
      27 December 2018 10: 54
      Quote: Cunctator
      each regiment had its own cathedral temples

      At that time, the church was state-owned, controlled by the emperor. Today we have a supposedly secular state, so the administration of religious cults is a private matter for everyone.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +6
          27 December 2018 11: 08
          Quote: Cunctator
          I did not make him secular

          Clearly, democracy is the dictatorship of true democrats.
          Nevertheless, creeping nationalization of the church contrary to the current legislation does too much harm. Another thing is if people themselves wanted it.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. +5
              27 December 2018 11: 17
              Quote: Cunctator
              That's it.

              To do this, recognized moral authorities, not bureaucrats and functionaries, should be at the top of the church hierarchy. At the moment, grassroots levels are much more respected than managers.
              1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Alf
      +5
      27 December 2018 20: 09
      Quote: Cunctator
      But it was the other way around - for 70 years, rotted to hell.

      Exactly, exactly. And the current government has rotted for some 30 years.
  30. +14
    27 December 2018 08: 47
    My question is: Why only an Orthodox church? Where is the church? Where is the mosque? Where is the synagogue?
    And in light of recent events: why not rename this park to Shoigu Patriot Park?
    Hey, you up there! Do you really have nothing more to do ?!
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. BAI
        +6
        27 December 2018 09: 38
        We have a mono-ethnic state, where 80 percent are Russians. Most of these Russians consider themselves Orthodox. At least purely formally, but ranked.

        But the builders of the Orthodox church, synagogue and mosque on Poklonnaya Hill in Moscow did not know this. And they built all three temples.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. BAI
            +2
            27 December 2018 10: 22
            Mind against the synagogue and mosque on Poklonnaya Hill?
            1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +2
      27 December 2018 09: 19
      By the way, in Shoigu, who is on confessional grounds?
    3. -5
      27 December 2018 10: 32
      No, this is for you and the author, the next lousy little article pulled over the ears, of one day - there is nothing to do.
  31. +11
    27 December 2018 08: 57
    The Sonderkommando of the Khrustobuloshnikov landed in full commentary. It remains to add poklnskaya on the mare.
    1. +3
      27 December 2018 09: 20
      So are you for or against the Temple? or abstained?
      1. +5
        27 December 2018 09: 40
        Clear stump that is against.
        1. -3
          27 December 2018 10: 56
          Quote: Black Owerlord
          Clear stump

          Why do you say this in tramp? Now they don’t say that, it causes suspicion.
          1. -1
            4 January 2019 15: 56
            I’ll go buy a couple of French rolls, cry with champagne, "about Russia we have lost" ™, and change my mind.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  32. -6
    27 December 2018 09: 08
    You can break many copies on this subject, but there are no atheists in the trenches (s).
    1. +10
      27 December 2018 09: 31
      My father, a participant in the war, 1922 of the year, oddly enough for today's lovers of the Russian Orthodox Church, was and remains an atheist until the end of his days.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +7
      27 December 2018 11: 04
      Comrade Beria! Yes, most likely that everyone remembered in the trenches of God, even the most stubborn atheists. But this is personal - you, with your fears and hopes, and the Father. And the temples are not for God the Father, but for that priestly trash that does not hesitate to boast of wealth (this does not concern true servants to God). I myself am an atheist and it’s really wild for me to fan the church in the army. I think that it would be quite a modest chapel in parts where one who believes in God could ask him for advice.
      1. -7
        27 December 2018 21: 58
        If you are an atheist - then the construction of one temple, you should generally be on a drum.
  33. BAI
    +15
    27 December 2018 09: 08
    1.
    we will take the steps of the temple from captured German technology

    You have to be delirious to say that. A tiger costs millions of dollars and only a few have survived. The same can be said about the rest of the captured equipment. For example, as I understand it, in Russia there is not a single Yu-88 that does not even fly (with the exception of those that were not found in the swamps).
    2. Voluntary-compulsory donations - nothing new under the moon.
    In the early 2000s, the head of the garrison also built a church and also raised money for the garrison.
    1. -5
      27 December 2018 09: 14
      Quote: BAI
      Voluntary Forced Donations

      It will be reckoned therewhat to worry about here.
  34. +4
    27 December 2018 09: 13
    Get fucked up ... I just say that the army should do its own thing ... fight ...
    "... there are no atheists in a trench under fire ..."
  35. -10
    27 December 2018 09: 15
    The Soviet Army had a lot of modern weapons, and the Union captured destroyed nothing helped. If there is no collective spirit, a mountain of weapons is just a heap of metal, Americans are armed to the teeth and fight poorly. Communist ideology has sunk into oblivion. The church remains. It will be more important than Armat.
    1. +9
      27 December 2018 10: 49
      The church is an organization with its goals and interests. It has a very indirect relation to faith, and even among quite religious people, far from all are church members (and Orthodox Christians too).
    2. +11
      27 December 2018 10: 56
      tegezen! This church of the king betrayed, like the whole elite (I am an atheist and not a monarchist). They won the Great Patriotic War because the Great Idea was in the minds of the Soviet people! The church was of help in that victory, nothing more. And now these temples are closing the problem with the lack of Idea among the people and the country.
  36. The comment was deleted.
    1. +8
      27 December 2018 11: 18
      I am sure that local believers have already scribbled a bunch of complaints against you for this demotivator, because point e) and she is so vulnerable that for any reason they are ready to be offended because of their "feelings and beliefs." And at the same time, they are ready to hammer the administration with their slander every day until the latter surrenders hi
  37. +13
    27 December 2018 09: 28
    Regardless of the authenticity of the document, there is such a medical fact: the Aviation Museum in Monino is being destroyed, now, apparently, they get to the tank museum in Kubinka. And all for the sake of the next gift for the Russian Orthodox Church. I have strong suspicions that the HHS was also built in a similar way.
  38. -3
    27 December 2018 09: 48
    Shoigu is an old man. It's time to think about the soul. That's where he thought.
    1. +11
      27 December 2018 10: 34
      At my own expense pliz.
  39. +2
    27 December 2018 09: 50
    Two questions are interesting: who is building and who will be the owner? That is, who is the beneficiary? At the construction site - a rollback, and at the parish (all the more so rich and numerous) - donations.
    I strongly suspect that the Russian Orthodox Church. They are about to lose the Ukrainian parish with income, so the whole world needs to unfasten the priests for "poverty."
  40. -6
    27 December 2018 10: 01
    You don’t have to blame it on your head for health and vice versa! The reason for the lack of fittings and dryers is not in the construction of the Temple, and you know this very well and nevertheless throw it on the fan yourself know that. You apparently have menopause, because it throws from one extreme to the other from all gone, all right
    1. +9
      27 December 2018 10: 50
      Andrey VOV! And in the temple too, and most importantly - in the nature of this gangster power. The enemy stands at the gates of the country, which these “ours” stubbornly refuse to close for reliable defense.
      All actions of this government are somehow effective only where it is necessary to ensure the safety of extraction and transportation of raw materials and energy resources.
      1. -5
        27 December 2018 11: 04
        No need to slip into the rally slogans, all these amorphous "The power is to blame" and so on ... it's easier to say "the power is to blame", there is no other one at the present time and will not change after the magic wand
        1. +6
          27 December 2018 11: 14
          Andrey VOV! A rally may not be necessary, one must think, why do we have such a power that, instead of restoring the murdered industry, it builds temples.
          1. -4
            27 December 2018 11: 16
            It is necessary to think and work, but industry was not killed unanimously by the current government
            1. +7
              27 December 2018 11: 19
              Andrey VOV! It is her, take an interest in this difficult issue on the network. Do not think that these are not the successors of those who killed the country in 90's.
              1. -5
                27 December 2018 13: 42
                why should I be interested in it, when I personally drank from TOY in 90 to the very nostrils ... there is no people in the world who would be happy with the power, that they, to a greater or lesser extent .... that, did not laugh in the years 70-80, they didn’t scold in the kitchens or grumble about the lines over the pontectium of the Politburo?
          2. -7
            27 December 2018 12: 41
            Quote: NordUral
            why do we have such a power that, instead of restoring the murdered industry, it builds temples.

            That's right, you need to think!
            Communists began to kill industry ... OPANA AND US FOR SHO? And for the fact that the country created by the people for 10 years turned into manure and now you can’t wait to handle your playful bunkers in the homeland bins and break into the feeder! But it doesn’t work out, it’s also possible to earn extra money on the old beaten track on the collapse of the Russian Federation ..... nothing personal, only business! Yes! And do not sing a song about the judas of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, without them there were thousands of thieves with a party card in their pocket!
            1. +6
              27 December 2018 13: 57
              Serg65! Waste your fervor for not addressing this. I have long been asserting to VO that the collapse of the Union began with the 20 Congress, with Khrushchev, with its thawed and so on. And what communist Khrushchev? Uneducated leftist-Trotskyist.
  41. +2
    27 December 2018 10: 07
    A very strong critical article in terms of the strategy of the middle of the last century.
  42. +14
    27 December 2018 10: 09
    The fascists on buckles knocked out "Gott mit uns" - God is with us.
    They believed in god. And their atheistic Soviet Union defeated.
    Great article by Roman good
    1. -5
      27 December 2018 10: 39
      Quote: populist
      They believed in god.

      1. God is capitalized
      2: If they believed in God, they would never have accomplished what they created.
      1. +10
        27 December 2018 11: 30
        populist (yuri)
        The fascists on buckles knocked out "Gott mit uns" - God is with us.
        They believed in god. And their atheistic Soviet Union defeated

        Alexander Romanov
        2: If they believed in God, they would never have accomplished what they created.

        They completely believed themselves. And with them there were Romanians (almost Orthodox), Finns, Hungarians and Italians. And they all believed too.

        The Spanish conquistadors did with the Indians of conquered America about the same as the Nazis on our land. And so, as the Spaniards believed! So they believed, so they believed how few people believe !!!
        1. -2
          27 December 2018 22: 00
          They believed in their exclusiveness - superhumanity.
    2. -10
      27 December 2018 10: 43
      Quote: populist
      They believed in god. And their atheistic Soviet Union defeated.

      Believing in God and believing in God is not the same thing.
      To understand the above:
      You can believe that the recidivist will recover, or you can believe the corrected one.

      Moscow Region, Shoigu, offers an ideological platform on which a soldier should stand - from an ordinary to a general. It is not iron that wins in the war, but the spirit of a soldier. Skomorokhov with his article loosens the earth under the berets of our soldiers. Without offering anything in return, Roman raises the trenches of our enemies in victory over us. It's disgusting!

      Not understanding the role of ideological power is not understanding at all how the world works. hi
      1. +11
        27 December 2018 11: 38
        Boris55
        Not understanding the role of ideological power - this is not understanding at all how the world works

        Dear Boris, we are talking about religion. And I fully understand the role of ideology good The atheistic Soviet Union, which defeated faithful fascist Germany, was a country of socialist ideology. good
  43. +10
    27 December 2018 10: 33
    The war with guns and soldiers was won, not by priests and banners.
    1. -5
      27 December 2018 10: 42
      We are Russians! God is with us ! Alexander Vasilyevich Suvorov
    2. 0
      27 December 2018 22: 01
      Do not worry, very soon drones will win the war - the process has already begun.
  44. +8
    27 December 2018 10: 44
    If we recall that atheism is quite a religion, not worse than others, the question arises: does this building fall under the law on the protection of the feelings of believers? This is so that Muslim-Buddhist-Shinto not to drag in ...
    1. 0
      27 December 2018 13: 15
      If we recall that atheism is quite a religion, no worse than others, the question arises: does this building fall under the law on the protection of the feelings of believers?
      I am an atheist and what? Temples are always needed. My feelings are quite well.
  45. +8
    27 December 2018 10: 45
    This temple will be useful to them to atone for the sins of the authorities before the army and the people. The thought has long crept into my head that this "our" government is not going to fight the West in the event of an attack on Russia. They will hand over the name for their money over the hill.
    And all these tales about incredible power are a grandiose performance for us, chill. To think less, why in the country it is so hard for ordinary people, and so good for thieves all over the vertical.
    Around us, the devil knows what is happening, but these only PR. And we, the people as a whole, are being led to this. And he does not think about the future of the country and our children.
    1. -4
      27 December 2018 12: 39
      Good thoughts do not creep into your head like thieves they come openly and from them joy and grace. So that you persecute these thieves.
  46. +8
    27 December 2018 11: 01
    But I believe, because I worked on a budget and went to the polls and parades instead of earning a penny on the weekend ((((The chief stood on the right side (the head of the department) and noted who was at the parade Yes, I’m a patriot of my homeland, but Moscow is not the whole of RUSSIA! Therefore, in our Kuban they say exactly the same as the girl-men’s words word for word! This is really an excess and that the darkest one does not know about this ?! This is complete nonsense, I do not believe ! am So how does a fucking batch of vigorous Russia differ from the Communist Party for the better? It has become even worse. No one will support it and it is time for Putin to make a choice with whom he is, it is time for the people, with the people or with whom? A shame !
    1. +8
      27 December 2018 11: 08
      d1975! And he did it a long time ago, but only recently told us. There will be no socialism, there will be justice (in the understanding of thieves' power, the brightest representatives of which, at all levels, explain this to us in detail, in word and deed).
      1. -1
        27 December 2018 11: 36
        Quote: NordUral
        but only recently told us. Socialism will not be

        Did you listen to him?
        " It seems to me that the deep state of society is such that the restoration of socialism - in the sense that you, in my opinion, are investing in it - impossible".

        Personally, I, except for socialism according to Stalin, do not need any other. With all the other rulers of socialism was not. There were many words about socialism, but really there was the power of party membership. In such socialism, I do not want. If anyone has forgotten what the power of party-nomenclature is, take a look, today it rules everywhere.
        1. +7
          27 December 2018 11: 41
          Boris! Socialism has one meaning - social justice. He has this one-sided justice that applies to a small percentage of the country's population.
          Personally, I do not need socialism, according to Stalin. I agree with you without reservation!
          1. -6
            27 December 2018 11: 49
            Quote: NordUral
            He has this one-sided justice that applies to a small percentage of the country's population.

            Are you talking about the May Decrees now? laughing

            We all live according to the laws adopted by the Duma. If desired, our chosen ones could, with some troubles, such as the adoption of the law on the constitutional assembly, etc., return the Stalinist Constitution altogether, abolish the power of the president, take away power from party membership and return power to the councils of workers and peasants. All this is beyond the powers and capabilities of the president. Putin took over the country at the beginning of the century. The current Constitution is adopted in 1993. He, as her guarantor, cannot go beyond her, but the Duma can do it.

            ps
            The signature of the President under the Law, as the guarantor of the Constitution, means that this Law does not contradict the Constitution - no more.
            1. +6
              27 December 2018 11: 55
              "May Decrees" Do not tell, Boris! It’s too late even to laugh, as well as to cry. It’s time for the people to start thinking and acting.
              1. -5
                27 December 2018 11: 58
                Quote: NordUral
                "May Decrees" Don't tell me, Boris!

                And what is wrong with them?
                1. +2
                  27 December 2018 12: 00
                  Words must be translated into action, Boris!
                  1. -6
                    27 December 2018 12: 05
                    Quote: NordUral
                    Words must be translated into action, Boris!

                    In order for things to be done, these things must be funded. Our budget is not being cut by the president, but by the Duma. That's how she sawed off, so they will be executed.

                    Even we are completely off topic. It's time to tie.
                    1. +7
                      27 December 2018 12: 12
                      In order for things to be done, these things must be funded. Our budget is not being cut by the president, but by the Duma. That's how she sawed off, so they will be executed.

                      Even we are completely off topic. It's time to tie.


                      They are sawing all together, Boris.

                      And I agree, it's time, New Year on the nose.
      2. +4
        27 December 2018 12: 09
        I understand that you are fully adequate, but this is already full ales kaput in his performance! Tired of it already! They did the showcase, what's next, and then nothing! It creates visibility and that's it! Order is needed in the country. We are already stupidly spread rot.
  47. +9
    27 December 2018 11: 04
    Article plus, the attitude to this Sabbath is about the same as that of the author,
    everyone must do their job, the army defense, and the priests their priestly affairs ...
    1. -8
      27 December 2018 12: 30
      The church is also defense, only spiritual, and only on this core can everything else be built. There will be no core of spirit - everything will fall apart, like the USSR - a great house was built, but it was built on the sand, the wind and the storm came and everything fell apart.
      1. +6
        27 December 2018 12: 38
        The church is also a defense, only a spiritual one, and only on this core can everything else be built.
        - I'm sorry, but the church / religion is a means of managing the masses of people no more than that .. hi
        1. -3
          27 December 2018 12: 47
          Sorry, but with all due respect, you unfortunately do not know anything about the church and are deeply mistaken. Why repeat the Soviet stamps. Take the Gospel and find a good textbook of world history from ancient centuries to this day (only not Soviet) and you guarantee you will discover a very, very new and useful.
          1. +5
            27 December 2018 12: 51
            Why repeat the Soviet stamps.
            - this is not a stamp, but a reality, there is no point in arguing - I will remain in my own positions, you are on your own, to each his own .... hi
  48. +16
    27 December 2018 11: 18
    I read the article, read the comments. Hmm ... anger and unwillingness to hear each other.
    I will express myself. By itself, having an army temple is a good thing. Only the initiative in the form in which it is implemented is inappropriate and goes back to ignorance of the history and traditions of the Russian army.
    In St. Petersburg there is the Transfiguration Cathedral. It exists since the 18th century, has never been closed, since the time of Paul I - Cathedral of the Transfiguration of the Lord of All Guard. It was considered the main temple of the entire Russian guard. An almshouse, an orphanage, a canteen, and a school for soldiers' children operated under him.
    A great choice for an all-army temple:

    To give the temple status, to build a rehabilitation center with it - that’s what it would be. And the location is good and the connection of traditions is evident.
    By the way, a curious detail - In 1832-1833, designed by the architect Stasov, in memory of the victory in the Russian-Turkish war of 1828-1829 around the cathedral the fence, the basis of which is the trunks of captured Turkish guns, taken from the walls of the Turkish fortresses of Izmail, Varna, Tulchi, Isakchi, Silistra, as well as taken in the battle of Kulevchi.

    Ideally the same.
    Moreover, there is also an excellent "candidate" - the Cathedral of the Holy Life-Giving Trinity of the Life-Guards Izmailovsky Regiment.

    "On the walls of the cathedral were the captured Turkish banners captured during the Russian-Turkish war of 1877-1878, the banners of the regiment. In 1836, white marble plaques with the names of the officers of the regiment who died in the battles of Austerlitz, Friedland, Borodino and Keys to the fortresses of Kars, Bayazet, Lemotik, Nikopol, Adrianople and other cities, as well as the uniforms of the august chiefs were kept in the showcases. "
    But no, we will build some mediocre "remake" in the Moscow region ..
    1. The comment was deleted.
  49. +9
    27 December 2018 11: 24
    Moreover, the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow can be considered as the main temple of the army. It was erected in honor of the victory in the Patriotic War of 1812, is the collective cenotaph of the soldiers of the Russian Imperial Army who died in the war with Napoleon, on the walls of the temple were the names of the officers who died in the war and the Overseas Campaigns of 1797-1806 and 1813-1814.
    1. +10
      27 December 2018 12: 46
      Nikita, salt is that all the temples listed by you have already been built and they are not located in Shoyguland, and they will not be given a medal for them ... hi
  50. +6
    27 December 2018 11: 51
    Thanks, Roman. Guys here in the subway car discussed that 1,7 billion is not the sum for such a large-scale facility (in St. Petersburg, for example, a school for 1000 places costs 1,5 billion, and even if it has two pools, but the decoration is near the church in natural stone, mosaics and murals will be ..) most likely the main money will go not through the Moscow Region, but through the ̶M̶i̶n̶k̶u̶l̶y̶t̶ church.
  51. +4
    27 December 2018 12: 13
    What do you want from a builder who has suffered a professional deformation? It's not his fault - it happened this way. He worked in all sorts of ways. I just didn’t work as a builder. Let him amuse himself. The money is not big by his standards. Do not stand or jump where there is construction going on or where a load is suspended. By the way, have you had any accidents?
    1. +6
      27 December 2018 12: 47
      By the way, have you had any accidents?
      - they will...
  52. +7
    27 December 2018 12: 49
    And it doesn’t matter that a huge temple will stand in a place that is open for a week a year.

    And no more is needed. But there will be a place where the supreme commander can at least once a year atone for the sins of the despicable scum. The main thing is to stay away from them.
  53. +10
    27 December 2018 12: 55
    Wait, what about Muslims? And the Jews, why don’t we have Jews in the army? What about Buddhists? Will comrades from Ulan Ude be able to conduct their religious ceremonies in this temple? And if my religion is atheism, why do I need this temple?
  54. +14
    27 December 2018 13: 54
    An old joke.
    Before the revolution, there was a church and a tavern in our city. The communists passed, the church and tavern were closed, but a school, a hospital, a club, and a library were built. Now there is none of this, but there is a church and a tavern.
    1. +3
      27 December 2018 16: 00
      xoma58 (Valery)
      Before the revolution, there was a church and a tavern in our city. The communists passed, the church and tavern were closed, but a school, a hospital, a club, and a library were built. Now there is none of this, but there is a church and a tavern.

      Good joke good Well, straight through life sad
  55. +7
    27 December 2018 14: 19
    500 rub. from each serviceman of the RF Ministry of Defense per month according to a self-written report addressed to the commander-in-chief in a voluntary-compulsory manner...from there comes the money for a useless temple in an incomprehensible place with unknown prospects..
    1. -1
      27 December 2018 22: 03
      What are these unknown prospects - another place for tourist excursions.
  56. +10
    27 December 2018 14: 39
    Quote: Alexander Romanov

    Why didn’t you resent the destruction of the temples by the Bolsheviks, which was not indirect, but direct.

    Have you ever asked yourself the question WHY the Bolsheviks destroyed churches? I would really like to get an answer to this question, and also to understand why the patriarchal country did not rebel against this and did not sweep away the Bolshevik government
    1. -7
      27 December 2018 15: 16
      Quote: balunn
      WHY did the Bolsheviks destroy churches?

      Temples were destroyed by Satanists, they wanted to crap and erase not only the entire history of Russia, but also Russia itself - Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy and many others.
      Quote: balunn
      why didn’t the patriarchal country rebel against this and sweep away the Bolshevik government?

      For the reason that the crowd (not the people) shouted...... We know no other king except Caesar
  57. -5
    27 December 2018 14: 40
    Who are you against churches and against God? Some of you are baptized, but you behave like pagans. There will be no rest for the pagans. You will always be humiliated and beaten. And tanks will not help you.
    1. +10
      27 December 2018 15: 56
      Stalingradpobeda (Sasha)
      Who are you against churches and against God? Some of you are baptized, but you behave like pagans. There will be no rest for the pagans. You will always be humiliated and beaten. And tanks will not help you.

      Dear Stalingrad victory Sasha, Well, tanks helped in Stalingrad. Not for pagans, but for atheists. Historical fact. And in your head, something is seriously confused, since you called yourself by the name of Stalingrad, and at the same time you are speaking out against its defenders. No.
      Stalin was also an atheist, by the way. Try to understand yourself. what
    2. +2
      27 December 2018 16: 42
      A lot of aggression. Somehow this is not Christian
  58. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  59. DPN
    +9
    27 December 2018 15: 55
    You don’t have to be so stupid, capitalism can only be maintained by faith in God, that’s where churches and temples came from, as they say, they hit you with the left hand, substitute the right hand - be patient.
    By the way, Nuns and Monks, true believers, always walked and lived poorly!
  60. +3
    27 December 2018 16: 49
    Quote: Bull Terrier
    it is at least. is this an extract from the order? where is the seal? where is the city on the right side under the cap of the order? The date on the top left is always the city on the right. what is this scribble?

    What kind of stamps are there on internal documents?! Do you generally imagine office work, incl. secret in the Armed Forces and other military departments? lol
  61. +6
    27 December 2018 16: 58
    Quote: xoma58
    An old joke.
    Before the revolution, there was a church and a tavern in our city. The communists passed, the church and tavern were closed, but a school, a hospital, a club, and a library were built. Now there is none of this, but there is a church and a tavern.

    good good good hi
  62. +3
    27 December 2018 17: 09
    Quote: Cheslav Tsursky
    Quote: Silvestr
    Recently, one comrade called Shoigu the greatest patriot, but my question is, how and in what way is his patriotism measured? I did not find words.
    It turns out that the most important patriot is the one in whose temple the domes are higher and whose cooler the temple.
    Personal coat of arms of Shoigu.

    Sylvester, how is hatred of the Motherland measured? How is dislike for the Fatherland measured? I would be very interested to know how you personally measure meanness? I address my questions to a competent person because... reading your comments, you have to work hard if you want to find at least a couple of neutral ones, but chernushnye are a dime a dozen!
    Quote: Silvestr
    Immodest somehow, the new nobles?
    Fraud and window dressing remained in our lives.

    Was the presentation of the coat of arms to General Boldarev not an act of respect, but a gift of nobility?! Sylvester, I almost forgot - how is stupidity measured? Or rather, such simple meanness?

    What? In comments like yours... lol P.S. Sylvester, I apologize for not resisting and answering for you. hi
  63. +3
    27 December 2018 17: 13
    Quote: Trofim
    This is not an order, but an instruction drawn up in accordance with the requirements of the PMO No. 170 of 04.04.2017/XNUMX/XNUMX. Teach the materiel, so to speak. But in fact, for me it would be better to build a rehabilitation center for military personnel and their families. And people do not need to melt real benefits and trophies.

    good good good hi
  64. -2
    27 December 2018 17: 38
    But has anyone here thought that the happiest people are sincere believers? Not stupidly performing rituals, but BELIEVERS! They believe that Salvation awaits them. This is their goal. And worldly life is only a temporary test of their faith. They believe that everything happens according to the will of God. And those who are angry on the pages of this thread - after all, they have no faith in anything in their souls... There is an emptiness in which this anger accumulates... I read almost all the postings before writing my own. And he noted that those who advocate the church are more tolerant and correct in their statements. This alone is a big plus because they respect the interlocutor. They already have restraining postulates... IMHO... A lot of letters could be written about this. But is it necessary? Whoever is worthy will understand... Yes, a couple more words: the collapse of the Orthodox Church in Russia will accelerate and facilitate the collapse of the Russian State..
    1. -2
      27 December 2018 18: 06
      Quote: Alexander X
      But has anyone here thought about the fact that

      .... When they are angry, then the soul rejoices, as the Holy Fathers say - this means that the Church is alive.
      Quote: Alexander X
      But has anyone here thought about the fact that

      .... believers are truly free people.
  65. -5
    27 December 2018 19: 27
    It’s commendable that Skomorokhov is already without a co-author (he probably didn’t sign up for this, out of harm’s way....))))
    The Temple of Russian Wars infuriates him and counts the money.. Oh yes Roman, you are our accountant..
    For Donbass (Mozgovoy), you still haven’t paid off? Remember I hope.. negative
    He doesn’t like the military temple of fallen soldiers... Maybe there should be a synagogue? Of course, I’m harsh, men, but I can’t shake everything from this cynicism and greed.. Oh God give me the strength not to break into “popular Russian soulful..!”.. hi
    1. +4
      27 December 2018 23: 08
      Quote: Broken
      It’s commendable that Skomorokhov is already without a co-author (he probably didn’t sign up for this, out of harm’s way....))))
      The Temple of Russian Wars infuriates him and counts the money.. Oh yes Roman, you are our accountant..
      For Donbass (Mozgovoy), you still haven’t paid off? Remember I hope.. negative
      He doesn’t like the military temple of fallen soldiers... Maybe there should be a synagogue? Of course, I’m harsh, men, but I can’t shake everything from this cynicism and greed.. Oh God give me the strength not to break into “popular Russian soulful..!”.. hi
      How about we build a synagogue, a church, a datsan and a mosque? You give 100% coverage!
  66. -4
    27 December 2018 20: 13
    The author is apparently being strangled by a toad. For so many years, believers worked and were killed and put in prison, churches were destroyed, and now it’s all back on you. I'm sorry
  67. -3
    27 December 2018 22: 03
    The fact is that the names of donors are included in the eternal memorial list of the temple. And their names are remembered at the Liturgy, reading in the altar. The wicked do not know this and they, the wicked, are worried.
    1. 0
      28 December 2018 09: 27
      Love is (Oleg)
      The wicked do not know this and they, the wicked, are worried.

      And you, then, have made yourself honorable...
  68. +7
    27 December 2018 23: 00
    Everything should be in moderation. Unfortunately, this is for show. They built the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, how many parishioners are there if the arrival of HIMSELF is not expected? And the objects of religious worship (church, chapel, mosque, khural, pagoda, house of worship, temple - according to religion) should be, exaggeratedly, in everyday accessibility, and not in “Shoigu-Land”... What if some kind of minister becomes Excuse me, Nurgaliev? Will we build minarets in another park? Ah, then we also need a different President, with his friends. A plus for Shoigu is at least some money for his homeland, the Republic of Tyva, our ally in the Great Patriotic War.
  69. -1
    27 December 2018 23: 27
    If briefly about the article - “Horses and people are mixed together” and “My thoughts are my horses.”
    Did the author want to talk about another campaign and coercion under the guise of religiosity? So there is not a single good thing that cannot be perverted. This is man's business, not God's.
    Another “Yaroslavna’s cry” about Almaty, kindergartens, etc.? So why contrast this with the construction of temples? And the first must be done and the second must not be forgotten.
    And in order to erase the grins in the comments and stop the mockery of religion, I want to remind you that the USSR was decomposed primarily ideologically.
    What can you offer as an ideology now? Think carefully before you answer. Don't mention the word "patriotism". Not because it’s not an answer, but a serious topic for a separate conversation.
    The article is provocative. From an ordinary event - construction (quite possibly far-fetched) and the usual monetary and organizational fuss around it - the author concluded "icons instead of shells."
  70. +1
    28 December 2018 00: 55
    Wonderful article!
    “Don’t shoot the pianist - he’s doing his best.” Oscar Wilde

    And an inexhaustible stream of vacuum in the heads of some commentators. Walk, walk like that... let's move on to the next stage and discuss whether it is worth perpetuating the memory and glorification of those who died defending the Motherland! Why the hell do we need such a relic of the past as Orthodoxy? Why do we need a defense minister like Shoigu, who has done nothing to revive the army, builds churches, and even holds a strange position - President of the Russian Geographical Society. It’s better to put a girl minister in the chair, like one from this list
    and everything will work out for us.
    I specifically looked at the old comments of some “critics” who were violently indignant in the “crowd of their own kind” regarding Shoigu the Minister. Are you your early comments that if it had not been for “the installation of Minister Shoigu” on the throne, the army would have come into complete disarray, given under threat of torture, or also in a “crowd of enthusiastic admirers”?

    Critics are usually those people who would be poets, historians, biographers if they could, but, having tried their talents in these or other fields and having failed, decided to take up criticism.
    A. Chekhov
    1. +1
      28 December 2018 02: 39
      are they bad ministers?
      Are temples built instead of ships or fighter planes?
  71. +7
    28 December 2018 03: 41
    That's right, you just have to look at the root.
    Why did the revival of religion begin at all? Then, of course, to there was another powerful insurance against re-Sovietization. Here “the Bolsheviks-Antichrist killed the anointed one,” and the very atmosphere of churchliness, immersing a person in the “Orthodox kingdom,” but not in the victorious cry “Give!”, from which all the achievements of the Land of Soviets came.
    And the inability to compare “Orthodox Rus'” with the Councils for Achievements speaks of the debilitation of the population, although the Gospel clearly says: “a tree is known by its fruit.”
    Well, and the army... The army, as usual, took the lead in this whole bad story, clearly showing its level of patriotism. And what is especially disgusting is that it is she who is now bravely leading rearguard battles in defense of opium for the people, while the religious dope in the minds of the masses is gradually beginning to dissipate.
    1. 0
      28 December 2018 08: 38
      What kind of insurance is this? From what re-Sovietization?! The USSR is now a 70-year chapter in our history. And Orthodoxy, one might say, is a separate volume, 1000 years old. The USSR gave us Heroes, and the Orthodoxy of saints and one did not exclude the other (many of the communists probably wore a cross or a prayer). Religion and the state may have different relationships, but there is no need to oppose faith and people!
      “the religious dope in the minds of the masses is gradually beginning to dissipate,” yeah, and give way to consumer dope. A holy place is never empty...
    2. +1
      28 December 2018 20: 58
      The victorious cry of "Give it!" This is exactly what people raised in the Church (Stalin, for example) perceived, but people of completely different convictions (not even Soviet) destroyed the country.
    3. -1
      29 December 2018 08: 25
      For me, let them build churches rather than endless shopping malls or, God forgive me, nightclubs; let the people serve the Liturgy better than watch demonic things on Channel 1 and TNT. It’s better to let him read his prayers at night, and not watch endless talk shows on the zombie box or how old people get divorced from young people.
  72. 0
    28 December 2018 08: 43
    that they got to the TEMPLE... so what will it be? ..by God they got away with it!
  73. +2
    28 December 2018 12: 45
    1) some kind of ugly temple.
    2) the models and walls are glass. Suspicious.
    3) There are also gigantic official sidewalks on the plan, hardly inexpensive, like cosmic crop circles
    4) This is not the only order on voluntary contributions posted. They posted more.
    5) getting there is far and inconvenient. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t.
    6) there is also a museum of aviation, tank building, etc. planned...

    Bottom line: there are clearly not “a dozen new T-90s” there,
    They will stir things up in a way that is not childish.
    1. 0
      28 December 2018 13: 46
      There are all 1010 winked
  74. +1
    28 December 2018 14: 25
    Your fires, the country of victory,
    From the trenches of the fragile not to be seen.
    We do not understand how your troubles
    You began to align with ours.


    Tank. (Dot - continued)

    The blood is bubbling
    On the armor like paint.
    Fritz crawls without hiding
    without much fear.
    The tower hangs on the left,
    German bullet slanted
    we are now four
    in this terrible undead.


    We are alone
    To cover the retreat.
    Our days are over
    I'm out of luck
    junction of roads
    There will be a bow to us,
    because I couldn’t
    Pass the German column
    because they burn
    Tanks are hardly on the road,
    and their corpses lie
    Outstretched legs.
    Live screams subsided
    burned crews
    and only the flame roars
    in the towers ground flew off.

    Lieutenant, tell me
    because once they know
    as without fear in the soul,
    for a country dying?
    This fritz let it tremble
    death failed us
    intimidate, because we will die,
    for a just cause.

    Flashed in the bushes
    Germans gray jackets,
    how their fear bends,
    if the enemy is met by a bullet,

    because how to shoot
    to the end everyone must
    Look like that pillbox is standing,
    that everything was destroyed.

    From the cracked loophole,
    burnt bunker,
    as a dumb witness
    watching a machine gun barrel.


    Only darkness inside
    and burnt shadows
    and no one will enter
    in scorched doors.
    Flamethrower fire
    became their last dawn.
    And we will die too
    this autumn morning.

    Lieutenant revolver,
    and the grenades remained.
    But our frontier is not surrendered,
    for which they fought.
    Let them come and take
    Well, we’ll meet them,
    we are on their hände hoch!
    went to ... reply.

    ... lie in the grave of the roadside
    An anxious dream will not give rest
    Not found, not forgotten
    Second time killed
    Giving all you can give
    To become immortal in death.
    Jorg.
  75. -1
    28 December 2018 14: 31
    Children are not born with a stamp on their forehead - Japanese or French. Nationality is, if you like, the Basic worldview of a people, its self-identification, the definition of its place in existence. For Russians, Orthodoxy is an integral part of the Basic worldview, the basis of its National Moral Law and National Tradition - a way of thinking and a way of acting in the historical process. A basic worldview begins with an answer to the most important question - who am I? And for Russians, the answer is revealed precisely in Christianity: man is God’s beloved creation, His image and likeness. As the image of God, man is a Person, and as a Person he is not reducible to the flesh. Moreover, this definition automatically applies to all people in the world, affirming the ontological dignity of Man as the Image of God, His interlocutor in existence.
    In practical terms, this was reflected in the history of the Russian people in that the Russians reached California, created a huge multinational country and not only did not destroy a single nation, but on the contrary, saved some and raised many to a new civilizational level.
    The loss of the Basic Worldview atomizes people, deprives them of the original communicative code, erodes moral boundaries and turns people into a kind of faceless “population”, transfers from the subject of the world historical process to an object, read “resource”, for consumption and exploitation. The example of modern Europe is quite obvious.
    The Soviet Union had a magnificent army - thousands of tanks, modern aviation and a fleet, a powerful nuclear triad - but it collapsed and crumbled at one moment, and people still could not find the strength for any intelligible protest. Moreover, in the USSR there was a powerful privileged social group - the Communist Party - not only well organized, but also well armed. There was not one thing — a moral need for struggle.
    Why is that? Yes, because ideologies do not create a Basic Worldview, do not create a Moral Law, but only appeal to it or, in the worst case, use it as a resource until they finally exhaust it. This is followed by degradation and destruction.
    Do not be afraid of the revival of Orthodoxy. Let us remember that if the Russian people hadn’t had a thousand-year Christian history, the Soviet period would have been impossible
    1. +3
      28 December 2018 15: 53
      Quote: Shepherd
      Yes, because ideologies do not create a Basic worldview, do not create a Moral Law, but only appeal to it or, in the worst case, use it as a resource until they completely deplete it. Then follows degradation and destruction.
      On the contrary, it is ideologies that create the “basic worldview” and “moral laws”! Namely.

      Firstly. And every ideology, and religions as ideologies including, his philosophical worldview about Objective reality, which exists regardless of the desire or reluctance of man as a subject of nature and human society. And several of these understandings of Objective realities are known in the history of mankind. Namely.

      V. I. Lenin in his definition of "matter" as "Objective reality" writes unequivocally: "matter is a philosophical category for DESIGNATION ...". This is all akin to the following example:
      Sounds we hear and pronounce.
      The letters we see and write.
      Letters are a symbol for sound.
      The same sound in different languages ​​has different designations - different letters. In Morse code, sound is indicated by dots and dashes.
      In the same way, in all philosophical methods, philosophical categories are a kind of proper letters for the symbolic designation of various phenomena.
      For example, each philosophical method has its own philosophical category to denote objective reality:
      • for Marx's method, it is “matter”;
      • for Hegel's method, it is an “absolute idea”;
      • in religion - it is "the creation of God's hands";
      • and in the author’s method of E. Kuznetsov based on the work “Dead”, which forms the basis of the COB of Russia is a scientifically untenable “process-trinity: matter, information, measure”.

      Secondly. Ideology also has a political background in setting the goal of one’s service and existence. For politics is a concentrated expression of the economic interests of an individual, a group of people, individual societies, peoples and nations, political classes, international globalist industrial and religious corporations.

      Therefore, when you write that “ideology can degrade as a historical resource,” then you are only right in that criterion of truth theoretical hypotheses as a philosophical category of “Objective reality” is PRACTICE.
      Quote: Shepherd
      For Russians, Orthodoxy is an integral part of the Basic Worldview, And for Russians the answer is revealed precisely in Christianity: man is God's favorite creation, His image and likeness. As the image of God, man is a Person, and as a Person he is not reducible to the flesh.

      In other words. The mind in man exists separately from the flesh, and the flesh exists separately from the mind.
      Well, where have you seen this?!
      1. -1
        28 December 2018 19: 52
        My comment is intended to show the inextricable connection between the Russian people and Christianity. Why should we be afraid of something that is an organic part of our culture? This is the first thing.
        Secondly, religion and philosophy must still be distinguished: philosophy is a free search for truth, and religion (we are talking about Christianity) is fundamentally based on Revelation. For Christians, objective reality originates from God and strives towards Him. Therefore, the moral law of Christians is not rooted in changing human reality, but is the relationship of the Eternal Creator and His creation in eternity.
        As for the “separation of mind and flesh,” here we need to “agree on words.” You judge from a rather materialistic position and equate the concept of “personality” and “individuality”. In Christianity, Personality in a person is a manifestation of the image of God as a divine property bestowed by the Creator on his creation (like the reflection of a person in a mirror, not being a person, reflects the properties of a person, and at the same time belongs to both the person and the mirror). The concepts of mind and rationality are also divided: mind is a property of the soul, the ability to know in general. Reasonability is a manifestation of this property of the soul in human corporeality.
        And yes, I’m talking about the influence of Christianity, and not abstract philosophical ideas, on the ethnogenesis of the Russian people.
        1. +4
          28 December 2018 23: 27
          Quote: Shepherd
          Shepherd (Timur)
          My comment is intended to show the inextricable connection between the Russian people and Christianity. Why should we be afraid of something that is an organic part of our culture?
          What is our culture?
          On the one hand, historically this happened and passed.
          And on the other hand. In 1917, the Russian Orthodox Church itself opposed the monarchy as such, supporting, together with the bourgeois Western apostates from the entourage of the sovereign of the Republic of Ingushetia, the abdication of the autocrat Nicholas II from the throne. With this, the Russian Orthodox Church betrayed the Tsar and trampled on the motto of the Russian people “For faith, Tsar and Fatherland!”
          Also, the Russian Orthodox Church spoke out in 1861 against the abolition of serfdom by Alexander II. The Russian Orthodox Church was the largest serf owner and landowner in the Republic of Ingushetia.
          In other words, the hedonism of the supreme clergy in the Russian Orthodox Church was oligarchically off scale.
          In addition, the Russian Orthodox Church scientifically preaches scientifically untenable postulates that were 1000 years old and has always repressively opposed the development of genuine science and public enlightenment in education.
          Quote: Shepherd
          Secondly, religion and philosophy must still be distinguished: philosophy is a free search for truth, and religion (we are talking about Christianity) is fundamentally based on Revelation. For Christians, objective reality originates from God and strives towards Him.
          Firstly. Philosophy includes such a section as theosophy. Theosophy is a philosophical concept in which objective reality is recognized as "the creation of God's hands"
          Secondly. Who saw this transmission of Revelation to the prophet(s) from God? After all, even in the Bible no one saw this! The clergy invite their believers to take their word for it! And nothing more. This is the perfect position for the clergy to manipulate the public consciousness of believers at their own discretion and in their favor.

          I won’t comment on the rest. It's too late.
          1. 0
            29 December 2018 02: 44
            You shouldn’t dismiss the heritage of your ancestors so easily - no one will like the consequences. Here's a comparison: in the Christian concept, a child is a person from the moment of conception, his birth is a blessing from God, and his upbringing is a saving field. In the last period of the empire’s existence, from 1898 to 1917, the population growth amounted to more than 49 million people (this includes infant mortality). Calculate how old these people were in 1941. Given the tension when children were dying at the machines, every person was important, let alone millions! Under Soviet rule, moral attitudes changed and the number of abortions reached 4,5 million per year (statistics from the 70s). We have built an urban civilization incapable of self-reproduction. What awaits us? European scenario? Interethnic conflicts?
            How to unite people in a multinational country? In Christian Russia, the unifying core was precisely Orthodoxy, which initially recognized the ontological dignity of every person without regard to his faith or the degree of civilizational development. Hence the laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol to northern peoples and laws preventing their debt enslavement. Now even the Russian ethnic group is falling apart and fighting to the point of bloodshed.
            I am far from idealizing old Russia, but if you go off the rails of ideological bias, you will definitely see many event threads connecting our past and present, and most importantly, determining our future.
            Let me note one more thing: it’s easy for me to understand you - I studied the history of philosophy at the university. You haven’t studied Christian dogmatics, Christian anthropology, or the history of the Christian church, and this leads to very superficial judgments.
            In addition to its direct functions, the Orthodox Church in Russia performed many related ones: education, social support for the population, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the function of a state reserve, the integration of small nations and many others (even the completely exotic - military intelligence). All this required funds. But, ignoring all of the above, we will remember only one thing: the Church is the largest feudal lord. Perhaps if we, and not someone else, had stood at the slave market in Istanbul, peering with hope at how the Russian embassy was buying back the full amount of money “taken from the peasants,” we would have changed our minds.
            We are ready to understand with understanding the assignment of workers to enterprises during the war period under Stalin, but we forget that back in the early 19th century, the Oka River valley was a natural fortified area - a fence - and uncontrolled settlement there was prohibited. What can we say about earlier times, when almost the entire border of the empire was the front line.
            You reproach the Church for the betrayal of Nicholas II, but do not think about the reasons for such behavior. Meanwhile, the Church was under the cruel oppression of imperial ideology for two hundred years, and the consequences of this were very sad.
            Now about the prophets. There are more than 300 tons of prophecies about Christ in the Old Testament. Some of them were uttered 1000 years before Him. And they all came true. In general, Christian asceticism quite clearly defines the path of spiritual ascent and gaining personal religious experience.
            And the last thing: about lying priests and manipulators. My ancestors were priests near Yaroslavl. I know their life and everyday life well. The wives and daughters of the priesthood received pedagogical education and taught in the villages. They lived in poverty. During the epidemic, they died doing their duty. You judge people about whom you know almost nothing. In vain.
            I thank you for our conversation. Best regards, Timur.
            1. +3
              29 December 2018 03: 57
              Quote: Shepherd
              You judge people about whom you know almost nothing.

              Eh, Timur, Timur! Yes, religious denominations are built on a network principle, like Mavrodi’s “MMM” pyramid! Priests “at the top” and in large parishes are enriching themselves. And the rest “down there” are their workhorses. I believe you that your ancestors were some kind of ascetics.
              However, why do we now need such dense asceticism in the sense of its scientific inconsistency?
              After all, a religious denomination is also built along party lines, just as the CPSU was built, with its own “General Secretary of the Poltburo of the Central Committee”, its own “Central Committee”; by their “regional committees”, “city committees”, “secretaries”, “instructors”, “party cells with party organizers”. With its own “Charter”, its own “VPSh”, “party” literature and media. With its own ideology and program for building a society in its own image and thinking.

              You don’t like the CPSU, whose “leaders” have betrayed their proletarian faith in communism and their people. Why should we now like the Russian Orthodox Church, whose “leaders” have also betrayed their faith, their people, and Russia more than once? Moreover, religion itself does not scientifically fit into any gates of modern scientific progress - it lags behind in science by at least 4,5 centuries ago. About what n/t. Can there be any talk of a revolution in a country with such religious education together with the Russian Orthodox Church? What kind of technical progress in market relations together with priests?

              All this is only fully consistent with the US Houston project on the dismemberment of Russia along religious lines. The Harvard project of the collapse of the USSR along national lines has already been implemented, and then Russia, according to US plans, should disintegrate along religious lines into small religious monarchies for puppet national-native kings.

              Russia can only be saved by the preservation of a SECULAR - supra-religious - state. However, this does not happen. The Russian Orthodox Church and the state are merging with each other before our eyes. These are now believers of different religious denominations, including the Russian Orthodox Church, “soft” and “fluffy”, and ahead of them will be the extremism of religious intolerance and the totalitarian scientific and production regression of society in the country.
              My father-in-law was also the son of a priest. Why did he understand this, but you didn’t? This is somehow strange.
              1. -1
                29 December 2018 13: 26
                A! So the philosophers have caught up! Hello Tatiana. The terminology you mention reveals that you are a professional who is first-hand familiar with philosophy and sociology. Therefore, I will immediately move on to the reasons why “you should not argue with philosophers”
                1. The spirituality of the teaching (this is like a “third dimension” compared to the “two-dimensionality” of ideology). If you don’t believe in God, you can stop the conversation here.
                2. Applicability to life. An Orthodox believer is known by whether he lives according to the Gospel or not. It is difficult for me to imagine a philosopher operating with the rules and laws of building society and the behavior of an abstract person, applying these laws to his personal life.
                3. In theology there are always certain limits beyond which it is condemned to go, considering it empty curiosity. Philosophy retreated from the knowledge of man into scholasticism
                Theology has never been at odds with philosophers (only with misanthropic theories), but philosophers have always made attempts to “improve” or “overthrow” religion. As time has shown, they are completely fruitless.
                I leave the contrast between religion and science on your conscience (I hope you will not stoop to giving examples of everyday obscurantism of ignorant people)
                Quote: Tatiana
                Russia can only be saved by the preservation of a SECLICAL - supra-religious - state
                But no one argues with this and Orthodoxy does not claim this, you should not be so.
                1. -2
                  29 December 2018 13: 46
                  Quote: alex.doc
                  But no one argues with this and Orthodoxy does not claim this, you should not be so.

                  It even makes great claims!! The Church is the cement that holds the Russians together! It’s not for nothing that the church in Ukraine was split, but so far they have only the appearance of it, I don’t think it will work for long. Sincerely hi
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. 0
                      29 December 2018 15: 11
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      Quote: You Vlad
                      2. Applicability to life. An Orthodox believer is known by whether he lives according to the Gospel or not.

                      I didn’t write that to you, otherwise I got it wrong.
                      And I’m actually allergic to Nevzorov, he’s better with horses.
                    2. -2
                      29 December 2018 16: 43
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      Well, here are your divine law-commandments.

                      Yes, that's them. 2 more were forgotten from the New Testament.
                      They sin because people. They repent because they are Orthodox.
                      Living according to the Gospel, on the one hand, is an unattainable ideal (well, for you, probably, like communism), and on the other hand, a “measure” with which you approach each of your actions... or not (then those around you will help winked ). In this coordinate system, theft, prostitution, murder will always be condemned, lying is inappropriate (self-justification in this regard too), the family is patriarchal; gender equality, sodomy is an “abomination before God,” etc.
                      If for you this is obvious and acceptable “in itself,” then it can be called conscience. Read the Gospel and, relating it to your conscience, you will feel some kind of response inside. This is the soul.
                      To be honest, after reading the definition of scholasticism, I regretted that I, an amateur philosopher, got involved in an argument with a professional philosopher (You’re a teacher, aren’t you? No what ?) My interest in philosophy appeared at the philosophy department, but leaving there I had even more questions: “Who are we? Where are we from? Where are we going?” (With). And, most importantly, the question was not asked: “Why do we live?”
                      Orthodoxy answered these questions for me. Not right away. But without ambiguity and omissions.
                      But you put your hopes in vain on Alexander Nevzorov. The same “seminarian” as Joseph Vissarionovich. This video shows how artistic he is and how to manipulate facts (he, a “seminarian,” should know the difference between Catholicism and original Christianity). By the way, the Synod said a lot of things, and then canceled them...
                      What I agree with is “militant dogmatism.” Militant is not because he attacks someone, but because he constantly (for 2000 years) fights off attacks. By the way, it is incorrect to call this dogmatism medieval, since these dogmas have developed and have existed unchanged for about 1600 years. And Orthodoxy is called that because it adheres to them.
                      Sorry for the verbosity. In short it didn't work out request .
                  2. -1
                    29 December 2018 16: 55
                    Vladislav, don’t get excited. Statecraft is action. The Church determines only the intention.
                    Well, it's like what ... Here! - Cutting with a knife is an action, but in the alley or in the operating room it is an intention. Do you agree? hi
                    1. -1
                      29 December 2018 16: 59
                      The text was like this!
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      Russia can only be saved by the preservation of a SECLICAL - supra-religious - state
                      But no one argues with this and Orthodoxy does not claim this, you should not be so.
                    2. +1
                      29 December 2018 17: 18
                      Quote: alex.doc
                      Do you agree?

                      I meant that the church claims to save Russia feel
                      1. 0
                        29 December 2018 19: 09
                        I agree that he is doing everything to save Russia, but he is not putting anyone personally in the role of “Russia’s savior.” “Do not trust in sons, in princes of men, for in them there is no salvation.”
                  3. The comment was deleted.
              2. +1
                29 December 2018 20: 20
                Hello Tatiana!
                I look at the time of your comment and my conscience begins to torment me.
                You know, the topic of confrontation between science and religion - here I mean exclusively Christianity - is largely far-fetched. Several global technical projects were implemented in the Soviet Union. Two of them - space and nuclear - were headed by Korolev and Kurchatov, respectively.
                On the eve of the test of the first nuclear device, according to the recollections of people who were with Kurchatov in the car, he stopped at the Novodevichy Convent, where he prayed for a long time in front of the icon of the Mother of God. Korolev’s religiosity is also well known: he came to faith in the camps, and then provided material support to one of the monasteries. For these people, no personal religiosity interfered with their scientific work. Do you think it's a coincidence? Not at all. The fact is that Christianity leads a person to the knowledge of God as a Person, face to face. What can hinder the study of His creation? Perhaps only moral restrictions. But this is where we need to stop.
                At the very beginning, I argued that any person's moral principles are based on his basic worldview. The most important thing in it is the answer to the question - who am I? Or, in other words: what is a person? I have already mentioned the Christian definition. Now let us remember the definition adopted in the materialistic concept: “Society is the highest form of organization of matter.” Here a person is only a part of the whole - an individual. Society will always be higher than the individual. (Have I made a mistake anywhere?) Now let’s try to derive from this definition a moral prohibition on devouring a person by one’s neighbors (society). Will it work? I'm very interested in your opinion.
                If materialism declares life to be a random play of matter, then what is the value of a “random” person? Only relative. Who and how will determine the reference point? Let's remember once again the history of the legalization of abortion in the USSR: in 1920 they were allowed, and in the period from 1936 to 1955 they were banned, then allowed again. What's next? Euthanasia is already used not only for terminally ill people, but also for people suffering from depression. There is talk about euthanasia of sick children.
                The topic of cannibalism is being raised, and the first films have already been made. The threshold of consent is lowered - pedophiles triumph. The first voices began to be heard about the possibility of aborting children under two years of age - he is not yet a person. Here it is appropriate to recall the “Overton Window”.
                When we build a house from completely material stone, we give it a shape that matches our design. In a materialistic society, a person is doomed to formatting (after all, he is matter!), and for this, of course, manipulations have been and will be used. There is something to think about.
                As for the secularism of our state, I will surprise you: most of the priests I know are only “for” - enough of the “friendly” embrace of the state, they have suffered enough. But the separation of state and religion does not mean segregation of religious citizens - this is important to remember.
                1. +5
                  30 December 2018 03: 49
                  Quote: Shepherd
                  Let's remember once again the history of the legalization of abortion in the USSR: in 1920 they were allowed, and in the period from 1936 to 1955 they were banned, then allowed again. What's next?
                  Your attitude to the topic of abortion is very superficial - namely, in a religious, and not in an atheistic-materialistic sense.
                  I studied this issue in detail. This question is so serious that it is simply indecent in our time to descend to the antediluvian religious dogmas about the priority of the fetus at the moment of conception, supposedly as a conscious personality over the personality of a woman with her already limited freedom as a woman and mother, responsible in the future for the fate of her child.

                  You can read my articles on “VO” on this topic, if, of course, a conversation with me really interests you. It's better to start with the second article.
                  Just go to my profile and you will see these articles of mine from 2015:
                  1. Abortion. To give birth or not to give birth? Orthodoxy and national security of the Russian Federation. Article 1. - https://topwar.ru/76412-abort-rozhat-ili-ne-rozhat-pravoslavie-i-nacionalnaya-bezopasnost-rf-statya-1.html
                  2. Abortion. To give birth or not to give birth? Orthodoxy and national security of the Russian Federation. Article 2. - https://topwar.ru/76913-abort-rozhat-ili-ne-rozhat-pravoslavie-i-nacionalnaya-bezopasnost-rf-statya-2.html
                  3. Abortion. To give birth or not to give birth? Orthodoxy and national security of the Russian Federation. Article 3. - https://topwar.ru/77363-abort-rozhat-ili-ne-rozhat-pravoslavie-i-nacionalnaya-bezopasnost-rf-statya-3.html
                  Quote: Shepherd
                  But the separation of state and religion does not mean segregation of religious citizens - this is important to remember.
                  In the meantime, I see from the “Overton windows” a latent active merger of the bourgeois Russian Orthodox Church with the bourgeois state and, at the same time, militant discrimination at the legislative level against atheists.
                  1. -1
                    30 December 2018 21: 04
                    I don't know about Shepherd, I read your articles. I didn’t understand two things: why make a “bogeyman” out of the Russian Orthodox Church, and even in a conspiracy theory, and how Orthodoxy interferes in your struggle (in one article you seem to justify abortion from a medical point of view, in another you present it as a weapon of genocide). If you agree on the main thing, then you can come to a compromise on secondary issues (which, by the way, the doctors themselves tried to do). Do you want to cope on your own, without the participation of believers? The flag is in your hands - see what happens (IVF will help you).
                    Unfortunately, I read the comment belatedly by Orkraider (Me) December 28, 2018 16:32 - “I read all the comments, to be honest, I’m very upset. The topic of Faith and God is so personal for everyone that there is no need to enter into controversy about it.
                    No need."
                    But I’ll add on my own behalf (sorry, I couldn’t resist) - there is no need to confuse the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church and Orthodoxy. We are on the same path as long as they adhere to “antediluvian dogmas.”
                    1. +3
                      31 December 2018 12: 35
                      Quote: alex.doc
                      I didn’t understand two things: why make a “bogeyman” out of the Russian Orthodox Church, and even in a conspiracy theory, and how Orthodoxy interferes in your struggle (in one article you seem to justify abortion from a medical point of view, in another you present it as a weapon of genocide).
                      Why can’t we understand? Everything is very simple, true, but more complicated than you would like to think about it.
                      The Russian Orthodox Church supports the powers that be in the Russian Federation in the fact that the powers that be "marketeers" are building their oligarchic state of a puppet-pro-Western capitalist sense in the country at the expense and on the backs of the working people and are carrying out monetarist economic reforms in the country that are strangling the indigenous people according to the recommendations of the IMF. Those. so-called "optimization" reforms (self-sufficiency) strategic sectors of the economy: medicine, education, social security, housing and communal services, police and the country's armed forces - for the profit of corrupt officials and those in power themselves.
                      In other words, those in power in the Russian Federation are carrying out in the country not just the dismantling of its social foundation as a sovereign state, but also the dismantling of Russia as such, in geopolitical terms in general - and above all as a historically established national state of the primordially Russian people, which has absorbed under their protection and patronage of other peoples.
                      But I’ll add on my own behalf (sorry, I couldn’t resist) - there is no need to confuse the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church and Orthodoxy. We are on the same path as long as they adhere to “antediluvian dogmas.”
                      Well, who are you after that?
                      On the one hand, the believers in Orthodoxy themselves, as you yourself noted, are primarily concerned in the country not so much with the well-being of their people and their country itself, but rather with the Faith in God itself and their selfish desire, through the Russian Orthodox Church, to end up after death in a dogmatic mythical paradise on Heaven, from where no one has ever returned.
                      And on the other hand, on this desire of believers and manipulation of them in this regard, the Russian Orthodox Church as an NGO (as a functional intermediary between God and believers) builds and expands its wonderful non-productive, and ideological - market-network administrative-church profitable business on the part of itself clergy, built by them on the Orthodox faith in God and on the tax-free trade in mystical services in the country (under any social system except the socialist one) as supposedly solely on “voluntary” donations and alms from believers.
                      1. 0
                        1 January 2019 12: 54
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        The Russian Orthodox Church supports those in power in the Russian Federation in that

                        Accepting the description of the socio-political situation in the country, I do not agree with the role you ascribe to the Orthodox (You persistently seem to confuse the main and the secondary - the Russian Orthodox Church and the administration. Well, for example, like the Communist Party and the Central Committee of the CPSU wink). And Timur will tell you better than me about the role and place of Orthodoxy (Orthodox believers) in the life of the country. He does it more deeply and, at the same time, more understandably.
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        Well, who are you after that?

                        smile "By their fruits you will know them." Only from the point of view of a scientific and methodological approach, you need to have some believers in your environment...
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        ... the desire ... to be after death in a dogmatic mythical paradise in Heaven
                        without paying attention to the context - are you jealous?! winked
                      2. +2
                        3 January 2019 01: 43
                        Quote: alex.doc
                        Quote: Tatyana... the desire... to end up after death in a dogmatic mythical paradise in Heaven, paying attention to the context - are you jealous?!

                        I don’t see anything that would make atheists jealous of believers. Religion causes only losses for the people in the country and for the believers themselves (only expenses).
                        One consolation for believers is that believers - with their subjective idealistic thought about, perhaps, their eternal afterlife in a divine paradise - die easier than atheists. And not every believing “sinner”! For some, the funeral ceremony itself for different reasons attracts. And nothing more.
                      3. 0
                        5 January 2019 20: 48
                        “If there is no God, and I believe in Him, I lose nothing. But if there is a God, and I don’t believe in Him, I lose everything.” Blaise Pascal.
                  2. -1
                    30 December 2018 23: 47
                    Tatyana, I read all three articles. I liked the second one more - with factual material. If I were you, I would also aggravate the housing problem. It is obvious that even if a forced ban on abortion leads to a surge in the birth rate, then in our urban civilization (and given the current economic structure) this will lead to an increase in mortgage prices and a further increase in the debt enslavement of people. And this, in turn, will inevitably lead to a decline in the birth rate - a vicious circle.
                    But your irritation regarding the patriarch’s words upset me. What words could be expected from a person representing a very significant social group of people, for whom God is not an abstract philosophical concept, but a very real Person, and for whom a child in the womb is already a real person, and not a blank? It is impossible to remain silent - God is betrayed by silence. And on what basis are people, in whose moral frame of reference abortion is murder and a mortal sin, forced to participate in it by financing it through taxes? For these people, complicity in murder is a sophisticated form of suicide, but in eternity.
                    And the history of our long-suffering people once again convinces us that if Russian women gave birth only in relatively favorable conditions, then we would have disappeared already during the Horde yoke.
                    The position of feminists is also surprising – a woman’s exclusive right to her body. Do men have this right? Then desertion in war should not be punished, right? These are clear signs of the mutation of the people into the “population”: every man for himself.
                    In your articles you pay a lot of attention to the topic of national security. Assess the extent of the demographic problem in this light: NATO – 600 million, southern countries (where radical Islam frolics) – at least 400 million, China – more than 1,3 billion. Can you imagine what kind of financial leverage the first ones have, what kind of mobilization leverage the second ones have, what unpredictability the third ones have, and what total military power - all taken together? How many countries did we have to fight against in the Second World War, and how many will we have to fight against in the Third?
                    Something I’m not talking about on New Year’s Eve. Happy upcoming you! Sorry if I upset you in any way. I hope that next year I will decide to write an article, in the discussion of which we could clarify a lot without fear of punishment for flooding (unless you are already tired of me).
                    Regards, Timur.
                    1. +1
                      31 December 2018 08: 16
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      How many will it be against in the Third?

                      I don't care anymore. Nuclear weapons will multiply everyone by zero.
                      1. +1
                        31 December 2018 11: 39
                        No, it won’t multiply. The modern total nuclear arsenal is insufficient. And in the USSR, where the nuclear component in the army was much higher, they understood this and kept 58 tanks at the ready. In addition, modern nuclear weapons are much more effective in terms of burning out a nuclear charge, and the danger of nuclear contamination from them Applications below.
                        But that's not all. If China is involved in a nuclear conflict, the most developed agricultural and industrial areas will be attacked and contaminated. A huge mass of people will be squeezed between the natural desert in the west and the nuclear desert in the east. What will remain for them? Just run.
                        World history teaches that it is possible to stop an army, but it is impossible to stop the migration of peoples. Remember the Roman proverb: “The only thing worse than a barbarian is his wife.”
                        Hand-to-hand combat will be inevitable.
                    2. +2
                      31 December 2018 13: 12
                      Quote: Shepherd
                      And this, in turn, will inevitably lead to a decline in the birth rate - a vicious circle.
                      Right! However, this means that the political system itself is internally logically contradictory in its original ideological and theoretical postulates. And such a theoretical idealistic attitude cannot serve as a guide to action in building a socially just state. It is necessary to correct ideological and theoretical errors, but first they need to be methodologically established and designated as reference points for understanding.

                      I like, Timur, that you want to write an article on this topic. I will read it with interest. Discussion always contributes to the search and achievement of truth.
                      However, the problem of childbirth and demography in Russia rests not only on ideology as an area of ​​theoretical knowledge of truth when building scientific hypotheses as guidelines for action. Hypotheses are either confirmed or refuted by practice. Practice is the criterion of truth. And in the real world there are a huge number of very different related connections of cause and effect. And they, too, must be taken into account when modeling the construction of society. In particular, this is the impact of foreign labor migration on the domestic Russian labor market, leading to unemployment, marginalization and wage dumping for the indigenous Russian population. This is especially true for Russian men themselves, who must support their families.
                      Therefore, for a broader understanding of the essence of the political-demographic problem in the Russian Federation, it makes sense to read my other 3 remaining articles on VO - and along with comments to them by the VO participants themselves:
                      1. “Financial risks of the national security of the Russian Federation from foreign labor migration” from 2015 - https://topwar.ru/71406-finansovye-riski-nacionalnoy-bezopasnosti-rf-ot-inostrannoy-trudovoy-migracii.html
                      2. “Gender pension discrimination against women in the Russian Federation-2015 (Open analytical note for the Security Council of the Russian Federation)” dated 2015 -
                      https://topwar.ru/151856-zachem-nam-ikony-vmesto-pushek.html#comment-id-8923749
                      3. “Pension problems in the Russian Federation. Returning to what was printed” from 2015. -
                      https://topwar.ru/151856-zachem-nam-ikony-vmesto-pushek.html#comment-id-8923749

                      Happy New Year to you, Timur!
                      I wish you success, health and happiness in the new year!
                2. +1
                  31 December 2018 17: 28

                  Shepherd (Timur)
                  In a materialistic society, a person is doomed to formatting (after all, he is matter!), and for this, of course, manipulations have been and will be used. There is something to think about.

                  Thus, it turns out that manipulations to format a person are only a hundred years old (1917-2018). Manipulation is as old as materialistic society according to your logic.
                  What a deep misconception! Manipulations to format a person are as old as the person himself. In a religious society, a person is also formatted, and regardless of religion, even in a pre-religious society they are also formatted.
                  1. +1
                    31 December 2018 18: 44
                    Quote: populist
                    Manipulations to format a person are as old as the person himself.

                    Nothing contrary to the verb :)
                    But this comment of mine was a response to the Church’s reproach for manipulating religious people.
                    As for the manipulation of human consciousness in the modern materialistic world, it has been raised to hitherto unattainable heights, using the most modern scientific knowledge in the field of psychology and physiology. Or else there will be more! The residual moral inertia of man in modern society, if not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow, will be overcome and Pandora's box will be opened. Nobody will remember the priests with their ridiculous words about the “ontological dignity” of Man. The trends are such that a little more and there will be a decisive separation of the younger generation from the old. Youth will finally emerge from Tradition and turn simply into human material for building economically profitable social structures.
                    Happy New Year, Yuri!
                    1. 0
                      1 January 2019 19: 16
                      Shepherd (Timur)
                      As for the manipulation of human consciousness in the modern materialistic world, it has been raised to hitherto unattainable heights, using the most modern scientific knowledge in the field of psychology and physiology.

                      I agree with almost everything in this phrase, except for one thing - “in the modern materialistic world.” The world is a religious one, not a materialistic one (except China).
                      It would be more correct to say - As for the manipulation of human consciousness in the modern believing world, it has been raised to hitherto unattainable heights, using the most modern scientific knowledge in the field of psychology and physiology.
                      Youth will finally emerge from Tradition and turn simply into human material for building economically profitable social structures.

                      What Tradition will the youth come from: Catholic, Protestant, Uniate, Anglican, Hindu, or maybe from the Voodoo tradition?
                      And social structures have always been created from people. Society is a social construct. If there is no social construction, there will be no society (humanity).
                      Happy New Year, Timur!
                      1. 0
                        2 January 2019 18: 16
                        Yuri, hello!
                        Quote: populist
                        The world is believing, not materialistic

                        Here we need to agree “on words”: what is the meaning of putting into the concept “believer”, otherwise China will turn out to be a “believer”.
                        I meant a way of being: it’s not so important what a person declares - what matters is how he lives.
                        If in a society previously significant spiritual values ​​are crowded out for the sake of material ones, then old signs are of no use; they do not reflect reality. (As an example, let’s take those previously considered Christian religious denominations that legalized same-sex marriage).
                        In general, it should be noted that the ideology of consumption dominates in the world. For its successful development, atheism is most suitable with its belief that man is simply a biological species. (Here, my word, take a look at a modern textbook on marketing and see for yourself).
                        [Quote] [/ quote]
                        Now about Tradition.
                        In this context, I call Tradition the very phenomenon of transferring spiritual, moral and civilizational experience from parents - as people most interested in the well-being of their offspring - to their children. To simplify, I will say: Tradition, at its core, is the connection between lovers and loved ones. For parents, their children are not a faceless resource.
                        As for social structures, they can be natural - traditional societies, or artificial - ISIS (a terrorist organization banned in Russia). In a traditional society, a person is a value: he is a person, has a name and rights, and is part of the tradition.
                        I was talking about social constructions where there is no person as an individual, but there is economic benefit - read Consumer, and human material - read Resource. There is no other way to call it cannibalism.
                        Some time ago I was at a meeting of the city parent community with police officers. It was about death groups. A police officer told us that the group organizers received money for their work. This means only one thing: field tests of new technologies for controlling human consciousness are underway. The parameters are set to the most extreme - suicide of the experimental subject. I think other technical specifications are possible.
                      2. 0
                        3 January 2019 19: 10
                        Hello Timur.
                        Here we need to agree “on words”: what is the point of investing

                        After reading these words, I was going to write to you that it would not be possible to agree, because we have different pictures of the world, but after reading the entire post I saw that these pictures of the world are not so different. However, the true picture of the world is distorted by you to fit your “theory”. But why go back to the Middle Ages to confront modern “Evil”. This is a dead end path.
                        In a traditional society, a person is a value: he is a person, has a name and rights

                        What rights could a slave have in Rome, a serf in Russia, or a fenced person in England (this is when the sheep ate the people). And I’m not even talking about “personalities” in traditional society.
                      3. 0
                        4 January 2019 13: 24
                        Yuri, hello!
                        What rights could a slave have in Rome?

                        Yes, in Rome, a slave was just a thing and the Tradition did not apply to him, but in the Roman society (people) itself, every plebeian had the rights of a Roman citizen (Laws of 12 tables).
                        The period of enclosure in England - its causes and consequences - is assessed by English historians themselves somewhat differently than in the Marxist interpretation. I am sure that there was little good for the common man, but, nevertheless, I note that in the archives there are documents that tell us that common peasants sued the landowners and, although not often, won cases in court.
                        As for serfdom in Russia, I note that the serf had property, could marry and was protected by law. The same notorious Saltychikha was nevertheless convicted for her crimes. According to the Council Code of 1649, the premeditated murder of a serf peasant was punishable by death; under Elizabeth, such landowners were branded and exiled; under Alexander I, estates were taken away for tyranny over peasants, etc. (Another thing is that everything was hampered by corruption, but under Nicholas I it was confiscated per year up to 200 estates).
                        The Russian peasant lived in two dimensions - church and civil.
                        In the church dimension, a person always remains a Person, since he is the image of God. (Here I mean the Church dimension, and not the monastic-economic dimension with corvée, quitrents and flogging for arrears).
                        As an example, we can recall the two-year struggle of St. Ignatius Brianchaninov against the arbitrariness of the landowner Strakhov. The landowner raped the serf women.
                        Peasants and local clergy filed a complaint. The scoundrel landowner had influential patrons, and the peasants were accused of rebellion. The matter reached the Holy Synod - they sent Metropolitan Ignatius. After two years of struggle, St. Ignatius achieved the conviction of the rapist.
                        Quote: populist
                        But why go back to the Middle Ages to confront modern “Evil”

                        The Middle Ages is a very complex broth; so many different things are brewed together in it, sometimes completely contradictory. But this does not mean that there was nothing useful or good in him.
                        We would like to understand why people brought up in an idealistic paradigm built a huge multinational country, and people brought up in materialism lost it.
                        This must be comprehended in order to assess whether the processes of disintegration continue, what will happen to us tomorrow, what weak points of our society will be revealed by our opponents and where they will strike. This is the line of defense.
                      4. 0
                        4 January 2019 14: 55
                        Hello Timur.
                        I read your answer, but I don’t see the point in further discussion. It's time to end this discussion. In addition, one topic is not discussed at VO for so long.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +4
      28 December 2018 16: 15
      Quote: Shepherd
      For Russians, Orthodoxy is an integral part of the Basic Worldview

      Is this your personal opinion, or are you claiming the truth?


      Quote: Shepherd
      Let us remember that if the Russian people had not had a thousand-year Christian history, then the Soviet period would have been impossible

      And if grandma had a gun, they wouldn’t have snatched away her pension in the alley. That everything would have been different is clear. But who knows whether it would have been better or worse?
      1. 0
        28 December 2018 20: 02
        This is my personal opinion, but it is quite consistent with the opinion of Russians from the pre-Mongol period to the present day.
    4. +3
      28 December 2018 18: 52
      Shepherd (Timur)
      If the Russian people had not had a thousand-year Christian history, then the Soviet period would have been impossible

      How did China manage without thousands of years of Christian history? It has had a socialist period for 70 years. What about Vietnam and North Korea?
      1. +2
        28 December 2018 20: 05
        Would China's socialist period have been possible without the influence of the USSR? It seems to me that you somewhat underestimate the role of the Soviet Union in world history.
  76. -3
    28 December 2018 14: 40
    Well done buffoons! Well, I made you laugh! ))
  77. 0
    28 December 2018 16: 32
    I read all the comments and, to be honest, I was very upset. The topic of Faith and God is so personal for everyone that there is no need to enter into controversy about it.
    Do not.
    I will say one thing about myself, I remember the Soviets with tears of sadness, it was a golden time. And at the same time I Believe.
    For me, contrasting God with socialism is simply wild and stupid. Regarding the debate about Stalin’s attitude to religion, let me remind you how they flew around Moscow with the Icon, and how they were allowed to wear crosses at the front... Like the connection in the article between the armata and the temple, new equipment in the military arrives according to the Plan, and there were shifts to the right and the USSR. For me personally, the construction of the temple is for the good, and there are many believers in the army, this is a fact.

    Brothers and sisters!
    There is no need to quarrel, this is all the machinations of enemies who want our unrest. We must be strong in spirit and strengthen the flesh (with reinforcements and dryers).
    1. +4
      28 December 2018 20: 11
      Let me remind you how we flew around Moscow with the Icon,


      But for some reason, no official documents about this have survived, and we know about this event only from the story, the details of which raise very serious doubts. There are such doubts that a number of historians, not without arguments, say that this story is completely fictional.

      About the controversy about Stalin's relationship to religion


      How can there be disputes about the relationship of a communist to religion?
  78. +1
    28 December 2018 20: 16
    Well, the church has long been fused with the nomenklatura, and demonic behavior began worse than the merchants in the temple))))) well, maybe later they will convert it into a mosque) like Sofia in Istanbul))
  79. +1
    30 December 2018 16: 38
    Now we are waiting for the construction of a cross-breed mosque, etc. by the list. Soldiers of how many faiths serve in the ranks of the Russian Armed Forces?
  80. +3
    31 December 2018 12: 44
    I agree with that!
  81. The comment was deleted.
  82. DPN
    +2
    31 December 2018 21: 08
    In my native youth city of Dzerzhinsk, there was not a single church; during Yeltsin’s time, and now, a church has broken free at every entrance. What is it for? new FASHION? or new STALL?.
  83. +2
    1 January 2019 11: 48
    the whole point is that the military doctrine has changed, we don’t need to win the war, we must die as martyrs, and the enemies just die, that’s why we need even more churches, so we will win!!!!
  84. 0
    1 January 2019 16: 18
    Why are you all so upset, isn’t it true? Oh well...
  85. +1
    1 January 2019 17: 33
    I apologize, I don’t really follow the lawmaking of the State Duma... Have they already amended Article 14 of the Constitution, or is all this art being introduced on the spot?
  86. +2
    1 January 2019 18: 57
    They took us with the sword, but we took the cross, nothing has changed. There is no ideology, that’s why they flirt with priests. They forgot only one thing: the Bolsheviks could have destroyed the church if people had not turned away from the priests because of their greed and betrayal of the “anointed one to rule.” And now they have declared him a saint.
  87. -1
    1 January 2019 23: 18
    Quote: serpent
    Quote: Silvestr
    Immodest somehow, the new nobles?

    King Arthur and the Knight Lancelot.

    Knights, knights....You will still remember the magic!
  88. -1
    2 January 2019 01: 55
    Romchik, your little fellow, is not proof.Video evidence provide witnesses too. And such little children in the nursery can draw and Popandopalo from the film “Wedding in Malinovka”. Are you accusing? - Proof in the studio. Otherwise, you’re a rat that needs to be put against the wall, understand, right?
    Pop on the British-American Space Marines from Warhammer 40-Knights-Catholic Christians, idiot.
  89. -1
    2 January 2019 09: 03
    Utter stupidity. The scribbler has only bile. The author is a crest or something.
  90. +1
    2 January 2019 19: 43
    Why do we need icons instead of guns?
    One could also ask: “Why do they need icons instead of guns?” sad
  91. 0
    6 January 2019 22: 14
    The document presented in the article is fake.
  92. 0
    9 January 2019 07: 51
    I feel sorry for the author... because he will burn in hell (joke)

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