Military Review

Poroshenko renamed the Ukrainian Orthodox Church

158
Ukrainian President Poroshenko continues to violate the Constitution of Ukraine, directly interfering in the actions of the church. Today he signed the law on renaming the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church. This is the press service of the President of Ukraine.


Poroshenko renamed the Ukrainian Orthodox Church


According to the new law, the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, whose control center is located in the “aggressor country”, is obliged to indicate in its name that it belongs to this country. Thus, the name of the canonical UOC should indicate that it belongs to the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC).

According to Poroshenko, the renaming of the UOC will give citizens "full information" to which state this church belongs, so that it would be "easier for them to make their choice." However, he argues that Ukraine adheres to the principle of freedom of religion and equality of all faiths.

Previously, this law was adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, although the deputies themselves recognized that it contradicted the basic law of the state.

According to the Constitution of Ukraine, the church is separated from the state, and the state should not interfere in the affairs of the church. The main law determines the equality of all religions before the law, therefore it is impossible to establish the advantages or limitations of one religion, dogma or religious organization relative to others.
Photos used:
https://twitter.com/STsegolko
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  1. Lieutenant Senior
    Lieutenant Senior 22 December 2018 17: 10
    -1
    Orthodox Ukrainian Parish - PUP. I pray at the PUP if they ask a Ukrainian))
    1. 210ox
      210ox 22 December 2018 17: 12
      +10
      Where did you see Orthodoxy there?
      1. Lieutenant Senior
        Lieutenant Senior 22 December 2018 17: 13
        -1
        And you first study the question))
        1. 210ox
          210ox 22 December 2018 17: 16
          +10
          And what’s the question? I’m sure that organisms that take temples and beat up priests cannot be Orthodox, and even more so those who push it.
          1. Lieutenant Senior
            Lieutenant Senior 22 December 2018 17: 20
            +3
            They think so.
            But here the question is different, there are a lot of normal Orthodox Christians in Ukraine, and this next "law" strangles them. What do you order them to do?
            1. 210ox
              210ox 22 December 2018 17: 26
              +3
              There are few options for action — conciliation with this situation, or active resistance in the event of the seizure of church property. Agreement is treason, resistance will cause forceful suppression, but this is the path of the righteous. And this regime is bloody.
              1. cniza
                cniza 22 December 2018 17: 37
                +3
                Previously, this law was adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, although the deputies themselves recognized that it contradicted the basic law of the state.


                To sue in this under-state is useless.
              2. Russia
                Russia 22 December 2018 17: 46
                +9
                Not everyone there will go for war to fight, the old people are powerless, the youth are at least infantile, I am silent about its political color.
              3. Halado Romane
                Halado Romane 22 December 2018 18: 07
                +2
                Many sagacious elders said they were jealous of the time in which we live now. Time indicates a direct path to the kingdom of heaven, limiting the possibility of choice to a paltry means errors.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 23 December 2018 01: 31
                  +5
                  Quote: Halado romane
                  Many sagacious elders said they were jealous of the time in which we live now.

                  What kind of elders are they? And then I heard the tagged come, and Satan will begin to rule the ball. You tamur in the church where you pray.
                  1. Zoldat_A
                    Zoldat_A 23 December 2018 15: 12
                    +1
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    And then I heard the tagged come, and Satan will begin to rule the ball.

                    The most interesting thing is that I heard this a year ago in 86-87, when our country was stunned by publicity, democracy and acceleration - from Perestroika in general. Yes, I myself only in August 91 did finally understand that we were turning somewhere in the wrong direction. Something wrong is going on. Therefore, after this, under the Pasha-Mercedes, the army did not last long. And in May-June of the 89-th among us, among the officers it was good form to have a pocket radio and sit in a smoking-room to listen to how the 1-th Congress of People’s Deputies nearly bred Hunchback Dog ...
                    We have three Raikins in our country - Raikin-father, Raikin-son and Raikin husband.
              4. Victorio
                Victorio 22 December 2018 21: 39
                +1
                Quote: 210ox
                There are few options for action — conciliation with this situation, or active resistance in the event of the seizure of church property. Agreement is treason, resistance will cause forceful suppression, but this is the path of the righteous. And this regime is bloody.

                ===
                There is only one option so far - conciliation. a similar scenario was already successfully beaten in Estonia, where the state intervened and forced the Russian Orthodox Church to agree.
            2. gurzuf
              gurzuf 22 December 2018 19: 59
              0
              Choke the strangler! This is elementary! hi
          2. Tersky
            Tersky 22 December 2018 17: 25
            +12
            According to Poroshenko, renaming the UOC will give citizens "full information" to which state this church belongs, so that it would be easier for them to make their choice.
            The stump is clear. If a sign "Russian Orthodox Church" hangs on the church, in the conditions of hysterical Russophobia officially imposed by the regime, this means "blessing" for any actions of Svidomo. And believers who come to the temples to pray, in fact, become separatists and agents of Putin. The next step is also easy to guess. After a wave of "patriotic pogroms," the now Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine will be banned.
            1. atalef
              atalef 22 December 2018 17: 31
              -12
              Quote: Tersky
              The stump is clear. If there is a sign "Russian Orthodox Church" on the church,

              And why did the Russian Orthodox Church struggle to be called its name?
              she is called that
              Quote: Tersky
              in the context of the hysterical Russophobia officially imposed by the regime, this means a "blessing" for any actions of the Svidomo.

              Well, parishioners will probably be able to give a fitting rebuff?
              We’ll wait, I’ve heard for 5 years that Ukraine doesn’t allow you to speak Russian, traveling 2 once a year to Kiev, as I did not find
              Quote: Tersky
              And believers who come to temples to pray actually become separatists and agents of Putin

              Why
              Quote: Tersky
              The next step is also easy to guess. After a wave of "patriotic pogroms"

              Let's first reach the 5 years of the expected pogroms against native Russian speakers, and then we will scare the following.
              Quote: Tersky
              Now the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine will be banned.

              God is in the soul, what's the difference for a believer?
              Look, Jehovah's Witnesses have been banned in Russia, and? Did they disappear from this?
              1. cniza
                cniza 22 December 2018 17: 39
                +2
                God is in the church, and the church is the body of Christ.
              2. Tersky
                Tersky 22 December 2018 17: 43
                +15
                Quote: atalef
                And why did the Russian Orthodox Church struggle to be called its name?

                Have you smoked the topic? Not.. No. . Well, write it in fact, not on a hunch
                Quote: atalef
                Well, parishioners will probably be able to give a fitting rebuff?

                And why should I, as a parishioner, have to fight back and not do what I came to the temple for?
                The next step is also easy to guess. After a wave of “patriotic pogroms”, now the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine will be banned. The justification is already laid down in the adopted law: "represents the interests of a country that is officially recognized in the current legislation as an aggressor"

                Quote: atalef
                Why
                Either you are really far from the topic, or a noble Troll.
                Quote: atalef
                Let's first reach the 5 years of the expected pogroms against native Russian speakers, and then we will scare the following.

                You see little pogroms of churches,
                Quote: atalef
                Look, Jehovah's Witnesses have been banned in Russia, and? Did they disappear from this?

                Oddly enough, they stopped rummaging around the yards, and their stash was slammed.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 22 December 2018 17: 57
                  -6
                  Quote: Tersky
                  And why should I, as a parishioner, have to fight back and not do what I came to the temple for?

                  And if you cannot protect yourself and your faith, then what does it mean?
                  People went to the fire for faith.
                  Quote: Tersky
                  Either you are really far from the topic, or a noble Troll.

                  I am close and ask a specific question, is there really an answer?
                  Quote: Tersky
                  You see little pogroms of churches,

                  Any examples?
                  I just did not see the info.
                  Quote: Tersky
                  Oddly enough, they stopped rummaging around the yards, and the stash of them slammed

                  And on the basis of this, do you think that they have disappeared?
                  Russian President Vladimir Putin called it "complete nonsense" to classify Jehovah's Witnesses as extremist organizations and urged "to deal with this carefully."
                  1. Tersky
                    Tersky 22 December 2018 18: 06
                    +12
                    Quote: atalef
                    I am close and ask a specific question, is there really an answer?

                    If you are close why ask questions to which you know the answers. Troll?
                    Quote: atalef
                    Any examples?

                    Church of St. Prince Vladimir in Lviv
                    Only in the 2017 year, the 17 churches of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate were attacked by radicals, and since the beginning of the 2018 year, 10 new attacks were committed. In the four years after the coup, more than fifty. Google further and you will be happy ..
                    Quote: atalef
                    And on the basis of this, do you think that they have disappeared?

                    And where did you read in my comment that they disappeared? They went underground, and their eyes and ears are not callous with their sermons. Already the result.
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 22 December 2018 18: 10
                      -5
                      Quote: Tersky
                      In the four years after the coup, more than fifty. Google further and you will be happy

                      Vile of course, no questions asked.
                      What have the authorities done about this?
                      Lowered the brakes, or conducted an investigation?
                      There are enough radicals everywhere, but as Zheglov said
                      The rule of law in the country is determined not by the presence of thieves, but by the ability of the authorities to neutralize them!
                      1. Tersky
                        Tersky 22 December 2018 18: 18
                        +8
                        Quote: atalef
                        What have the authorities done about this?

                        Read my first comment.
                    2. fruit_cake
                      fruit_cake 22 December 2018 18: 35
                      -1
                      and these clowns still screaming about what the Bolsheviks destroyed the church?
                    3. Well, how else
                      Well, how else 22 December 2018 20: 26
                      -9
                      And what's under the table. Not otherwise than "holy water". And even the plastic bottles did not melt in the event of a fire. And if so, then this is a production.
                  2. Nyrobsky
                    Nyrobsky 22 December 2018 19: 39
                    +3
                    Quote: atalef

                    And if you cannot protect yourself and your faith, then what does it mean? People went to the fire for faith.
                    Strange reasoning. Why should Orthodox Christians pour blood between themselves defending their faith only by the fact that they are divided into Russians and Urkaines? There is no Christ of the Urquain, or Russian Christ, and there is only one abbot of the church on earth, his name is Jesus Christ. Do you have few demons in the fire? What to expect 5 years, when since 2014 you are killing those who do not agree with the Svidomo. They burned Odessa, you kill and beat church attendants, setting fire to temples, in the Donbass you shoot and burn houses of civilians, where the Russian-speaking population predominates.
                    Quote: atalef
                    Quote: Tersky
                    You see little pogroms of churches,
                    Any examples?
                    I just did not see the info.

                    In November 2014, about 50 churches were destroyed or partially destroyed by ukronatsiks. Look at that. This is Donetsk. The faces of the deceased on the surviving tombstones will someday punish those who shot them.
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 22 December 2018 20: 15
                      -3
                      Quote: Nyrobsky
                      Why should Orthodox Christians pour blood between themselves defending their faith only by the fact that they are divided into Russians and Urkaines?

                      I just strongly disagree with this, in my understanding. what's the difference what is written on the tablet at the entrance to the temple, and if the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine is written on it, I don’t see any problem
                      Quote: Nyrobsky
                      There is no Christ of Urquain, or Russian Christ, and the abbot of the church on earth alone, his name is Jesus Christ

                      the view is beautiful, but unfortunately the Catholics - Protestants or Orthodox old (Old Believers) and new ones during the Nikon reform (EMNIP) - are completely far from the reality and the conflict is confirmation of this.
                      Exactly in the same I see the problem of the ROC and the UOC.
                      Quote: Nyrobsky
                      What to expect 5 years, when with 2014 years you kill those who do not agree with the Svidomo.

                      I do not kill anyone.
                      You probably got something wrong.
                      Let me remind you that in Ukraine DLNR and so on are Ukrainians fighting with Russians, or as many argue that Ukrainians do not exist at all - it means Russians and Russians
                      Quote: Nyrobsky
                      In November of the 2014 of the year, the ukronatsiks destroyed or partially destroyed around the 50 temples.

                      Bad of course, but as I understand it, in general, showdowns in the bosom of the Orthodox.
                      maybe, it seems that both one and the other perform Christian rites of the Orthodox sense.
                      Quote: Nyrobsky
                      The faces of the deceased on the surviving tombstones will someday punish those who shot them.

                      if justice existed, I’m sure many would be very surprised to see in the purgatory precisely those people who were revered as idols and models of decency and morality
                  3. bashkir
                    bashkir 23 December 2018 00: 52
                    +1
                    "And if you cannot defend yourself and your faith, then what does it mean?"
                    People went to the stake for their faith. "
                    Have you shown the same stamina? Before invoking others, can you set an example for the world? Or has this already happened in your story?
                    1. Cunctator
                      Cunctator 24 December 2018 15: 31
                      0
                      He is a Jew. What are you talking to him about this topic smile
              3. Fungus
                Fungus 22 December 2018 17: 43
                -1
                Yes, the other day, a native speaker of the Russian language was killed, a demon of trial and investigation in prison. So you don’t have to wait 5 years. They have been killing for a long time.
                1. Antares
                  Antares 22 December 2018 18: 29
                  0
                  Quote: Fungus
                  Yes, the other day, a native speaker of the Russian language was killed, a demon of trial and investigation in prison. So you don’t have to wait 5 years. They have been killing for a long time.

                  yes there is real genocide ... in 2017, more than 500 people died in Ukrainian prisons ... of course you can count them as native Russian speakers. (Then you will have to publish the number of those who died in Russia in prisons)
                  in the Russian Federation, "speakers of the Ukrainian language" also perish in prisons ... (example in the Krymu)
                  what am I for? And besides, one reason can be made out of one death. But out of 500 you can inflate even more ..
                2. German Titov
                  German Titov 22 December 2018 21: 08
                  +1
                  And what is a "native Russian speaker"? Killed a Man - "He was a volunteer, I support his choice." There are no less "Movi" speakers on both sides, believe me. "There are enough speakers of Spanish and others." Everyone takes their side of the conflict, by education, conviction and sometimes "material interest". Sad as it may seem, we have "a civil war going on."
              4. PalBor
                PalBor 22 December 2018 18: 09
                +8
                And I do not mind that the canonical church was called the "Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine". Provided that the newly formed will receive the name "Turkish HRC in Ukraine". How else?
                1. cniza
                  cniza 22 December 2018 18: 18
                  +4
                  Quote: PalBor
                  Provided that the newly formed will receive the name "Turkish HRC in Ukraine". How else?


                  They don’t know about it, they don’t know yet.
                2. My doctor
                  My doctor 22 December 2018 18: 36
                  -1
                  Quote: PalBor
                  And I do not mind that the canonical church was called "Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine"

                  And if it is against, what will change?
                  I think it is right to oblige foreign residents to inform the population about their status.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. PalBor
                    PalBor 22 December 2018 19: 02
                    +2
                    Who else in Ukraine is a foreign resident. You can not even look at your passport, but look at actions.
                    1. My doctor
                      My doctor 22 December 2018 21: 28
                      0
                      Quote: PalBor
                      Who else in Ukraine is a foreign resident. You can not even look at your passport, but look at actions.

                      It is not about Ukraine alone, but about all countries.
              5. Lawyer
                Lawyer 22 December 2018 20: 50
                +1
                In addition to God, the soul also needs communion and confession, and other sacraments that are vital for a full Christian life. Where you will find them except the church.
              6. okko077
                okko077 22 December 2018 21: 19
                +3
                It makes no difference: the Russian Orthodox Church and the Orthodox Church of Constantinople .... But there is not and will not be Ukrainian ....
              7. bashkir
                bashkir 23 December 2018 00: 47
                +1
                "Let's first figure out the 5 years of expected pogroms against native speakers of Russian, and then we'll scare them with the next."
                Are you tired of waiting? Unbearable?
              8. Tarhan
                Tarhan 23 December 2018 11: 20
                0
                And why did the Russian Orthodox Church struggle to be called its name?

                Here, many did not understand the essence or did not want to.

                The Orthodox Church of Ukraine received from Constantinople Tomos - the right to independence. That is, the patriarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church will not be the patriarch of Moscow, but his patriarch of Kiev.

                And in Ukraine, those church parishes where they remained faithful to the Moscow patriarch were not banned. Previously, all Orthodoxy subordinate to Moscow was called the UOC - Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Now in Ukraine there are parishes recognizing the spiritual authority of Moscow and there are parishes recognizing the spiritual authority of Kiev.

                So the Ukrainian government has decided that those parishes that recognize the new Tomos will be called the UOC, and those that recognize the authority of Moscow will be called the Russian Orthodox Church - the Russian Orthodox Church.
            2. Halado Romane
              Halado Romane 22 December 2018 18: 12
              +2
              This is not the case. There and now it is indicated the Moscow Patriarchate. This demon is just mocking. Demonicity from him is just rushing. Modern man already sees not even signs, but simply miracles. However, materialistic education makes it difficult to perceive them. In this demon, the soldiers faint and the Ukrainian flags themselves fall ... I think that the smell of sulfur is also felt.
              1. cniza
                cniza 22 December 2018 18: 19
                +2
                And we don’t know much yet, but Bes Poroshenko will answer for everything.
              2. Tersky
                Tersky 22 December 2018 18: 21
                +4
                Quote: Halado romane
                It's just that this demon is mocking.

                Moreover, he still put on a patriarchal hood
                1. Halado Romane
                  Halado Romane 22 December 2018 18: 24
                  +1
                  Demon is with the scum of the human race around.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
              3. Tarhan
                Tarhan 23 December 2018 18: 28
                0
                It's just that this demon is mocking.

                What a demon?

                How do Orthodox believers in Russia feel if the patriarch of the Russian Federation is appointed by the Archbishop of Athens and all of Hellas. Of the Holy Synod of Hierarchs of the Hellenic (Greek) Orthodox Church.
                So in Kiev they will choose their patriarch, the UOC, as in Moscow they will choose their patriarch, the Russian Orthodox Church.
            3. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 23 December 2018 00: 59
              +2
              Quote: Tersky
              After a wave of "patriotic pogroms," the now Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine will be banned.

              After that, Ukraine will have to be banned request Forever
          3. Machito
            Machito 22 December 2018 17: 37
            +2
            Poroshenko imagines himself an apostle Peter, establishes a church. That's what the squirrel brings to. If he doesn’t stop thumping, he will soon dignify himself with Jesus. Or the Queen of England.
            A fool.
            It’s time to anathematize Petka and his family to the seventh generation. The devils were waiting for them in hell. am
            1. Alena Frolovna
              Alena Frolovna 22 December 2018 18: 15
              +1
              Petro Alkogolievich is not just a pea jester, but a servant of the owner of the underworld and makes the whims of the latter.

              "New" people without a past,
              Dolls of long flight.
              Happy holiday horror vulgar!
              Happy idiot day!
              Yunna Moritz
            2. cniza
              cniza 22 December 2018 18: 20
              +1
              So he has his own home church, only this is diabolical ...
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2018 17: 50
        +1
        Quote: 210ox
        Where did you see Orthodoxy there?

        There are still not many Ukrainians themselves who will rename Jesus .. I always said, and now I say whoever renames it is engaged in destroying history, and therefore himself .. This also applies to our leader, they also like to rename, transfer capital cities .. in general dust in the eyes and violent activity out of the blue demonstrate .. that would fill pockets to the noise ..
        1. Halado Romane
          Halado Romane 22 December 2018 18: 30
          0
          Do not forget your leaders - they renamed everything in a row, demolishing not only historical monuments but also Orthodox churches! Remember also how, in alliance with the same Patriarchate of Constantinople, the same "new living church of the Renovationists" was organized and the Orthodox spread rot! The Patriarch was arrested ... In general, you got Svarog with your three kopecks of anti-Russian propaganda! In general, you should rejoice at all this devilry against Orthodoxy! Rejoice, not long!
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 22 December 2018 18: 51
            +1
            Quote: Halado romane
            In general, you got Svarog with your three pennies of anti-Russian propaganda! You should rejoice in all this devilry against Orthodoxy! Rejoice, not for long!

            Cool, open your eyes, devilry and we have it in full. When you criticize your neighbor and do not forget to look at yourself ... Or does our patriarch adhere to modesty in his life? Or does he not "drown" for the power that deprives his flock of the last crumbs? Be objective .. Although what I mean ... objectivity and realism .. you are not given such tasks laughing
            1. Halado Romane
              Halado Romane 22 December 2018 18: 59
              -2
              You don’t dare to contact me! I am not your friend! I told you before remembering these denunciations and destroyers of churches and Orthodoxy with such accusations. Do not forget the executed priests. Their blood cries out to heaven and does not wash away the persecutors of the Holy Church! With someone like you, will I still talk about the Patriarch? Not a little hat! Tortured to wait!
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 22 December 2018 19: 03
                +1
                Quote: Halado romane
                You don’t dare to contact me! I am not your friend!

                laughing Cool, my friend .. but where am I you, you called wassat
                Quote: Halado romane
                Do not forget the executed priests. Their blood cries out to heaven and does not wash away the persecutors of the Holy Church! With someone like you, will I still talk about the Patriarch? Not a little hat! Tortured to wait!

                Many were shot in peace, someone for the thirst for power over uncut people, someone fell by the rink .. But the majority of Russian people were never as literate as they were under the USSR .. The clergy of the Republic of Ingushetia were in no hurry to form slaves laughing Why didn’t you think about it? Not a single government in the entire history of Russia has been more honest with its people, except for the Communists ..
                1. Tersky
                  Tersky 22 December 2018 21: 17
                  -2
                  Quote: Svarog
                  The clergy of RI were in no hurry, for some reason, to form slaves

                  Do not write nonsense. The centers of education in Russia were churches and monasteries, thanks to which literature and art developed. It was the Orthodox Church that was the starting point for the development of writing in the native language. And you probably never heard of schools formed at monasteries and temples.
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 22 December 2018 23: 39
                    +6
                    Quote: Tersky
                    Quote: Svarog
                    The clergy of RI were in no hurry, for some reason, to form slaves

                    Do not write nonsense. The centers of education in Russia were churches and monasteries, thanks to which literature and art developed. It was the Orthodox Church that was the starting point for the development of writing in the native language. And you probably never heard of schools formed at monasteries and temples.

                    This is not nonsense, but history and statistics ..
                    In tsarist Russia, most of the people were deprived of the possibility of education. Most of the population was illiterate. The last all-Russian population census in tsarist Russia (1897) showed that 78% of the population cannot read and write. The tsarist government, supported by the bourgeoisie, refused to educate the people: it turned out to be easier to exploit ignorant people who turned into working cattle, easier to manage.
                    After the victory of the Great October Socialist Revolution in Russia, the situation with the formation of the people changed radically. Despite the difficult situation of the country created by the civil war and intervention, already in June 1918 the Regulation of the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR “On the Organization of Public Education in the Russian Socialist Soviet Republic” was signed, signed by V. I. Lenin. On October 16, 1918, the All-Russian Central Executive Committee approved the "Regulation on the Unified Labor School of the RSFSR", which envisaged the introduction of compulsory and free education for all school-age children (under 17 years old), providing children with textbooks, clothes and shoes, and catering for students.
                    In 1930, the USSR announced the introduction of compulsory universal primary education (Decree of the Central Executive Committee and Council of People's Commissars of the USSR of August 14, 1930 “On Compulsory Compulsory Primary Education”).

                    Immediately in the 20s, a literacy program was launched. As a result, by the beginning of the 30s, the literacy rate of the population was close to 95%, and by the beginning of the 40s, almost 100%.
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 22 December 2018 19: 05
              +1
              The comrade is probably not aware of the tobacco and alcohol business in the 90s of the foreign relations department of the Russian Orthodox Church, which was headed by someone?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 22 December 2018 20: 04
                      0
                      Well, they won’t say anything new, only slogans and manifestos. Although now they are edros without a description and two recommendations! goodAnd notice how objective they are! A little bit off him, minus one at a time!
                      1. Svarog
                        Svarog 22 December 2018 20: 19
                        +2
                        Quote: Phil77
                        Well, they won’t say anything new, only slogans and manifestos. Although now they are edros without a description and two recommendations! goodAnd notice how objective they are! A little bit off him, minus one at a time!

                        Yes, I do not expect new things from them, so that an interesting thought can be given out, it should come from the heart, and it should hurt for Russia .. but these kids are fine .. and morally they are still not mature .. out there It’s cool, like a child rejoices when his mother-in-law shunned by his current .. of course mother-in-law are different, but submitting them to the forum .. this is actually an indicator .. young boys, folders, mothers are seen in Edra, they are sitting at home, preparing for political life .. laughing So to say, gifted heirs .. who have led corporations at the age of 20 .. Oh, Russia ..
              2. Andrey Chistyakov
                Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 21
                +1
                Quote: Phil77
                The comrade is probably not aware of the tobacco and alcohol business in the 90s of the foreign relations department of the Russian Orthodox Church, which was headed by someone?

                Excuse me ... Did you stand next to him when he was "in charge" of this?
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 22 December 2018 19: 26
                  +1
                  And you say that something is the name of the * Nick * charity fund associated with the office I have called? No? Well, look on the internet, if I'm not mistaken. Jesus drove the merchants out of the temple, no?
                  1. Andrey Chistyakov
                    Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 29
                    -3
                    [quote = Fil77] But does it say to you that the name of the charity fund * Nick * associated with my office? No? Well, look on the internet, if I'm not mistaken Jesus drove the merchants out of the temple, no?
                    We are not discussing the Bible here. This time. Two. You have not answered my question. And three. Well, believe the Internet .. I don’t know. Personally, I am always careful about all kinds of media ..
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 22 December 2018 19: 40
                      +1
                      Yes, you know me too, but there was such a journalist Aleksey Bychkov and he had a whole series of articles about the business of the indicated gentleman. Nobody filed a lawsuit for slandering him, silence reigned. As if nothing had happened, read. Answer to your question: no, I didn’t stand nearby.
                      1. Andrey Chistyakov
                        Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Phil77
                        Yes, you know me too, but there was such a journalist Aleksey Bychkov and he had a whole series of articles about the business of the indicated gentleman. Nobody filed a lawsuit for slandering him, silence reigned. As if nothing had happened, read. Answer to your question: no, I didn’t stand nearby.

                        On each mouth, you will not throw a scarf. (Folk proverb)
                    2. Svarog
                      Svarog 22 December 2018 19: 56
                      +1
                      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                      I do not know. Personally, I am always careful about all kinds of media ..

                      You, in my opinion, are very careful about your own thoughts .. for you don’t open them to the end, your thought breaks off before you can reveal it to yourself laughing Says this about the uncertainty in their own judgments .. And if this is so, then do not rush to express, think ..
                      1. Andrey Chistyakov
                        Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 59
                        -2
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                        I do not know. Personally, I am always careful about all kinds of media ..

                        You, in my opinion, are very careful about your own thoughts .. for you don’t open them to the end, your thought breaks off before you can reveal it to yourself laughing Says this about the uncertainty in their own judgments .. And if this is so, then do not rush to express, think ..

                        Something without you. Without you ... Don’t blame me. Write to Phil with numbers or number plate. He is crazy about you. Chat. Good luck.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                2. Svarog
                  Svarog 22 December 2018 19: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                  Quote: Phil77
                  The comrade is probably not aware of the tobacco and alcohol business in the 90s of the foreign relations department of the Russian Orthodox Church, which was headed by someone?

                  Excuse me ... Did you stand next to him when he was "in charge" of this?

                  You can see that you were not yet born, well, or they walked under the table on foot, and those who lived in the 90s knew very well how and how the church earned .. and in criminal showdowns, church leaders were put in quite a few, namely for the sale of tobacco and alcohol. .
                  1. Andrey Chistyakov
                    Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 33
                    -2
                    Quote: Svarog
                    Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                    Quote: Phil77
                    The comrade is probably not aware of the tobacco and alcohol business in the 90s of the foreign relations department of the Russian Orthodox Church, which was headed by someone?

                    Excuse me ... Did you stand next to him when he was "in charge" of this?

                    You can see that you were not yet born, well, or they walked under the table on foot, and those who lived in the 90s knew very well how and how the church earned .. and in criminal showdowns, church leaders were put in quite a few, namely for the sale of tobacco and alcohol. .

                    Surely Cyril had a hand in ?!
                    1. Svarog
                      Svarog 22 December 2018 20: 02
                      +2
                      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                      Quote: Svarog
                      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                      Quote: Phil77
                      The comrade is probably not aware of the tobacco and alcohol business in the 90s of the foreign relations department of the Russian Orthodox Church, which was headed by someone?

                      Excuse me ... Did you stand next to him when he was "in charge" of this?

                      You can see that you were not yet born, well, or they walked under the table on foot, and those who lived in the 90s knew very well how and how the church earned .. and in criminal showdowns, church leaders were put in quite a few, namely for the sale of tobacco and alcohol. .

                      Surely Cyril had a hand in ?!

                      I don’t know for Cyril ... I only know that it’s accessible to everyone .. namely, that the Patriarch loves luxury, which is the opposite of modesty .. and I know that at the same time, he promotes and supports the government in all its criminal endeavors .. one of which, pension reform .. You must admit that it looks hypocritical ... Himself on a bentley, but in expensive watches, and with protection like that of the president, but the people should be patient ... The patriarch should embody the best qualities of a person and an intercessor of the weak , yes the poor to be .. and who is he standing up for?
                      1. Andrey Chistyakov
                        Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 20: 04
                        -2
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                        Quote: Phil77
                        The comrade is probably not aware of the tobacco and alcohol business in the 90s of the foreign relations department of the Russian Orthodox Church, which was headed by someone?

                        Excuse me ... Did you stand next to him when he was "in charge" of this?

                        You can see that you were not yet born, well, or they walked under the table on foot, and those who lived in the 90s knew very well how and how the church earned .. and in criminal showdowns, church leaders were put in quite a few, namely for the sale of tobacco and alcohol. .

                        Surely Cyril had a hand in ?!

                        I don’t know for Cyril ... I only know that it’s accessible to everyone .. namely, that the Patriarch loves luxury, which is the opposite of modesty .. and I know that at the same time, he promotes and supports the government in all its criminal endeavors .. one of which, pension reform .. You must admit that it looks hypocritical ... Himself on a bentley, but in expensive watches, and with protection like that of the president, but the people should be patient ... The patriarch should embody the best qualities of a person and an intercessor of the weak , yes the poor to be .. and who is he standing up for?

                        I already wrote about the watch. And about the power, too. Check your eyesight.
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 22 December 2018 20: 21
                        +2
                        Everything is simpler, well, they forgot that the lot of the pastor is modesty, to be with the flock, and not power.
                  2. Phil77
                    Phil77 22 December 2018 19: 44
                    +1
                    And not only, remember the famous bells * From the lads *, and the lighting of the Merc and BMW. Yes, how many were there !!!
                    1. Andrey Chistyakov
                      Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 48
                      -4
                      Quote: Phil77
                      And not only, remember the famous bells * From the lads *, and the lighting of the Merc and BMW. Yes, how many were there !!!

                      Well, you are simply "krassava". You will find Cyril's decree on this ?! And one more thing .. You go to church not to the priest, but to GOD !!!! Write down, you will forget the hour. Request. Don't answer me anymore.
                      1. PalBor
                        PalBor 22 December 2018 20: 05
                        +7
                        I will answer. So far, you have not banned by your decree. Do not confuse Faith, the Church and its individual representatives. In the late 90s and early 2000s, being a teacher with a meager salary, he worked part time in a brigade, among other things, involved in the restoration of reborn temples. Uh, I've seen enough of some priests (there is no other word). The whole set of commandment violations. What, they were expelled? Condemned? Now. One even became a bishop.
                        And the fact that under Yeltsin the ROC had its own "pipe" to Europe, so only a lazy or blind fanatic did not know.
                        I repeat, it is not necessary to identify, as some here, Faith and those who are happy with their well-being.
                      2. Andrey Chistyakov
                        Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 20: 08
                        +3
                        Quote: PalBor
                        I will answer. So far, you have not banned by your decree. Do not confuse Faith, the Church and its individual representatives. In the late 90s and early 2000s, being a teacher with a meager salary, he worked part time in a brigade, among other things, involved in the restoration of reborn temples. Uh, I've seen enough of some priests (there is no other word). The whole set of commandment violations. What, they were expelled? Condemned? Now. One even became a bishop.
                        And the fact that under Yeltsin the ROC had its own "pipe" to Europe, so only a lazy or blind fanatic did not know.
                        I repeat, it is not necessary to identify, as some here, Faith and those who are happy with their well-being.

                        I completely agree with you. What I wrote about. There is no need to identify priests with the whole church. There are enough scoundrels everywhere.
                      3. PalBor
                        PalBor 22 December 2018 20: 20
                        +2
                        Thank God you are adequate, otherwise I’m afraid of Halado. hi
                      4. Phil77
                        Phil77 22 December 2018 20: 35
                        0
                        You know Dear Pal Bohr! My grandmother was a deeply religious person, but her attitude to the priests was um ... well, peculiar. Her words: * With the Tsar-on-Three, with the Communists-on * Volga *. That's it.
                      5. PalBor
                        PalBor 22 December 2018 20: 44
                        +2
                        Man is weak. Regardless of the post and rank. What is there to argue and freak out. There are exceptions. For example me. smile I never took offerings on exams. Gratitude - it happened if the history book is cool or valuable to me.
                        But now this is impossible, and rightly so.
                      6. Phil77
                        Phil77 22 December 2018 20: 09
                        -3
                        I am upset, argued so beautifully and so incompetently completed! Just like M. Bulgakov’s in * Run *. Remember the words of General Khludov?
                      7. Svarog
                        Svarog 22 December 2018 20: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Phil77
                        I am upset, argued so beautifully and so incompetently completed! Just like M. Bulgakov’s in * Run *. Remember the words of General Khludov?

                        So you can’t trample against the truth .. The strength is in the truth! That's why the opponents merged laughing
                      8. Phil77
                        Phil77 22 December 2018 20: 27
                        -2
                        Eh, no! Your words are not yet evening! They are gathering thoughts or consulting, but it seems there is nothing to hide besides slogans! Timeout.
            3. Andrey Chistyakov
              Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 10
              0
              Quote: Svarog
              Quote: Halado romane
              In general, you got Svarog with your three pennies of anti-Russian propaganda! You should rejoice in all this devilry against Orthodoxy! Rejoice, not for long!

              Cool, open your eyes, devilry and we have it in full. When you criticize your neighbor and do not forget to look at yourself ... Or does our patriarch adhere to modesty in his life? Or does he not "drown" for the power that deprives his flock of the last crumbs? Be objective .. Although what I mean ... objectivity and realism .. you are not given such tasks laughing

              Well, yes ... This is Kirill's wife and children, like Filaret's ... "Objective" You are ours ...
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 22 December 2018 19: 18
                -2
                Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                Quote: Svarog
                Quote: Halado romane
                In general, you got Svarog with your three pennies of anti-Russian propaganda! You should rejoice in all this devilry against Orthodoxy! Rejoice, not for long!

                Cool, open your eyes, devilry and we have it in full. When you criticize your neighbor and do not forget to look at yourself ... Or does our patriarch adhere to modesty in his life? Or does he not "drown" for the power that deprives his flock of the last crumbs? Be objective .. Although what I mean ... objectivity and realism .. you are not given such tasks laughing

                Well, yes ... This is Kirill's wife and children, like Filaret's ... "Objective" You are ours ...

                Could you continue your deep .. but not clearly not finished thought .. do not be shy .. wassat hi
                1. Andrey Chistyakov
                  Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 19
                  0
                  Quote: Svarog
                  Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                  Quote: Svarog
                  Quote: Halado romane
                  In general, you got Svarog with your three pennies of anti-Russian propaganda! You should rejoice in all this devilry against Orthodoxy! Rejoice, not for long!

                  Cool, open your eyes, devilry and we have it in full. When you criticize your neighbor and do not forget to look at yourself ... Or does our patriarch adhere to modesty in his life? Or does he not "drown" for the power that deprives his flock of the last crumbs? Be objective .. Although what I mean ... objectivity and realism .. you are not given such tasks laughing

                  Well, yes ... This is Kirill's wife and children, like Filaret's ... "Objective" You are ours ...

                  Could you continue your deep .. but not clearly not finished thought .. do not be shy .. wassat hi

                  Enough for you. "Brave" You are our ...
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 22 December 2018 19: 31
                    -1
                    And why do you think that objectivity is to the detriment?
                    1. Andrey Chistyakov
                      Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 19: 40
                      +1
                      Quote: Phil77
                      And why do you think that objectivity is to the detriment?

                      Because "Svarog" has everything piled up in a heap .. It is strange that Putin was not dragged along as usual. The truth has already been pointed to him here. This is what modesty Svarog writes about ?! As for Cyril, the Patriarch "Alexy-2" had a "Raketa" watch on his wrist (for example, with a watch). Or at what times the church did not "drown". power? "In my memory, Patriarch Nikon under Peter-1 and Patriarch Tikhon under Lenin. And this has always been the case. However," Svarog "focuses on" Cyril. "And about Philaret of Kiev, not a word of condemnation. Despite the fact that he is his wife has children ?! This is the patriarch ?! Here is "objectivity" for you.
                      1. Svarog
                        Svarog 22 December 2018 20: 06
                        +1
                        Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                        However, "Svarog" focuses on "Kirill". And about Filaret of Kiev not a word of condemnation. Despite the fact that he has a wife and children ?! This is the patriarch ?! So much for "objectivity".

                        I do not care about Filoret and other scammers .. I am a Russian person who lives in Russia and I am not interested in clowns who rave in Ukraine, but I want us to not have clowns .. I hope you understand what I mean .. Others in words, you need to devote more to your problems than to mock at your neighbors .. are they much better?
                      2. Andrey Chistyakov
                        Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 20: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                        However, "Svarog" focuses on "Kirill". And about Filaret of Kiev not a word of condemnation. Despite the fact that he has a wife and children ?! This is the patriarch ?! So much for "objectivity".

                        I do not care about Filoret and other scammers .. I am a Russian person who lives in Russia and I am not interested in clowns who rave in Ukraine, but I want us to not have clowns .. I hope you understand what I mean .. Others in words, you need to devote more to your problems than to mock at your neighbors .. are they much better?

                        Here .. And immediately "jumped off". Now it’s all over the place. Well, well.
                      3. Svarog
                        Svarog 22 December 2018 20: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
                        Here .. And immediately "jumped off". Now it’s all over the place. Well, well.

                        You jumped off with Halado without answering a single question .. laughing hi
                      4. Andrey Chistyakov
                        Andrey Chistyakov 22 December 2018 20: 50
                        -3
                        [quote = Svarog] [quote = Andrey Chistyakov] Here .. And immediately "jumped off". Now everything is up to the bulb. Well, well. [/ Quote]
                        You jumped off with Halado without answering a single question ..
                        Just got it ?! Hooked? So that!!!!!
                      5. alex.doc
                        alex.doc 22 December 2018 23: 53
                        +2
                        Nothing interfering? If you are a Russian, I think that the Orthodox Church can be respected only for its 1000-year existence in the history of Russia.
                        And at the expense of discussing personalities in the church administration and identifying them with the Russian Orthodox Church itself, it is appropriate to do this by the believers themselves, without prompting "from the outside." This is the same as mocking the communists now, reproaching them with the leaders of the CPSU.
                      6. Svarog
                        Svarog 23 December 2018 00: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: alex.doc
                        Nothing interfering?

                        Of course nothing, we are here for this and gathered.
                        Quote: alex.doc
                        If you are a Russian, I think that the Orthodox Church can be respected only for its 1000-year existence in the history of Russia.

                        Did I express my disrespect for the church? To her individual personalities - yes, but not to the church.
                        Quote: alex.doc
                        by the Russian Orthodox Church itself, then it is appropriate to do this by the believers themselves, without prompting "from the outside"

                        Our mentality is such that if everyone is silent .. that’s possible .. In France, people are not silent and are trying to achieve something, but they are silent and are leading them to slaughter ..
                        Quote: alex.doc
                        This is the same as mocking the Communists now, reproaching them with the leaders of the CPSU.

                        So, among the Communists there were individuals who really deserve reprimand, at least .. And that, in my opinion, Khrushchev, only the lazy one does not kick, I do not see anything reprehensible here ..
                  2. Halado Romane
                    Halado Romane 22 December 2018 19: 42
                    +1
                    These haters of all Russian, including Orthodoxy, climb into all the topics with their hatred trying to spoil everything! Whatever it’s about, like now they have one thesis about Ukraine — we have nothing better or worse for us! In fact, they are trying to quietly and gradually poison the lives of normal people with vile libel and lies. Should they talk about the church when their predecessors have their hands to the elbow in the blood of the Orthodox! They would sit quietly and keep quiet when their predecessors planted tens of thousands of historical monuments of Russia and the Russian and Orthodox Temples of the Russian Orthodox Church throughout the country! They shot the clergy, exiled to the camps! Indeed, examples of murders are truly monstrous! So no! They also dare to teach someone life here! I have already said and will repeat, sometimes it seems to me that they specifically omit the communist idea in this way. Who of normal Russian people, both by blood and spirit, can adequately perceive these always mocking defeatists and all-dancing people dancing on Russian bones ?! How can self-respecting Russian people talk about something with these ever-grimacing and spitting in all directions ?! What can they build? What can they create? N AND C E G O except chaos! It is necessary to distance oneself from them on the Internet as soon as possible and harshly suppress their mockery in life. Here I personally don’t want to hang out about them, but I won’t be silent either.
            4. Tersky
              Tersky 22 December 2018 21: 33
              +2
              Quote: Svarog
              open your eyes, devilry and we are fully present ..
              Either this is a banal decline in morality, or it is a definite goal, undermining the fundamental principles of society. Do you go to church, are a believer, and donate? If not, then who gives you the right to rant about how they manage certain resources in an organization to which you have nothing to do? You have donated so much money to the church that now the machine of the patriarch of all Russia makes you shake with anger? If the patriarch was on a crippled Cossack or a brilliant Priore, there would be no less abusiveness.
              Our patriarch is far from the ideal of Christian virtue, but there is an obvious order. Throws regularly come from you against the Russian Orthodox Church. patriarch and religion as such. Orthodoxy, no matter how personally you relate to it, is one of the foundations of Russian society. The destruction of faith begins with the destruction of the church. Destroy Orthodoxy, Wahhabis and various sectarians will take its place in the minds of people.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Tank hard
                Tank hard 23 December 2018 22: 15
                +2
                Quote: Tersky
                Do you go to church, are a believer, and donate?

                Wearing nickname Svarog cannot be that by definition. yes
          2. Tank hard
            Tank hard 23 December 2018 01: 47
            +1
            Quote: Halado romane
            In general, you got Svarog with your three pennies of anti-Russian propaganda! You should rejoice in all this devilry against Orthodoxy! Rejoice, not for long!

            [media=https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B3]
            With such a name, are they good to Christians?
  2. atos_kin
    atos_kin 22 December 2018 17: 22
    +1
    The next law will be: repainting domes, crosses and re-trimming beards into forelocks.
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 22 December 2018 17: 28
      +3
      And altering the width is on the back. According to, the European, style.
  3. svp67
    svp67 22 December 2018 17: 27
    +9
    According to the Constitution of Ukraine, the church is separated from the state, and the state should not interfere in the affairs of the church
    And now the worst will begin. In connection with the change of name, they will require re-registration, including the right to use churches and shrines, and will begin to SEEM, refusing, under various pretexts ...
    1. atalef
      atalef 22 December 2018 17: 35
      0
      Quote: svp67
      And now the worst will begin. In connection with the change of name, they will require re-registration, including rights to use churches and shrines, and will begin to REMOVE

      there is nothing new under the sun
      Part of the land of the children's rehabilitation center in the suburbs was seized in favor of the Russian Orthodox Church

      On November 26, the Asinov City Court of the Tomsk Region granted the claim of the Asinov City Prosecutor’s Office to invalidate the donation agreement of the Portuguese Association of Jehovah's Witnesses to a land plot and non-residential building belonging to the local religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses in Asino.

      Property seized in favor of the Russian Federation,

      On December 12, the Twelfth Arbitration Court of Appeal in Tula seized the Holy Elijah Church in Trubchevsk (Bryansk Region) from the Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church (ROC) in favor of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC).

      request
      1. Fungus
        Fungus 22 December 2018 17: 42
        +1
        You have some excuse)
      2. svp67
        svp67 22 December 2018 18: 09
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        there is nothing new under the sun

        "- We Russians are very talented. Especially Jews." KGB General Leonid Shebarshin
    2. cniza
      cniza 22 December 2018 17: 40
      +3
      Let there be a battle, but they will try to sue.
  4. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 22 December 2018 17: 27
    +1
    Can immediately rename Ukrainians in ,, fools ,,?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 22 December 2018 17: 34
      +3
      You can rename it to anyone. But where to put the indecency that these banderologists are doing with their country (now the Yankee colony) ?!
  5. Ivan Vasilievich
    Ivan Vasilievich 22 December 2018 17: 28
    0
    The Kremlin’s stake on the Russian Orthodox Church as a powerful organization that strengthens foreign policy has failed completely. And the dough has been swelling a lot in the Russian Orthodox Church since 1988. . It is interesting how much money will be allocated for support in the Russian Orthodox Church and what will be the effect of this .. ??
    1. cniza
      cniza 22 December 2018 17: 41
      +5
      Take your time, even Stalin could not destroy Khrushchev, and the church is alive ...
      1. Ivan Vasilievich
        Ivan Vasilievich 22 December 2018 17: 50
        0
        I’m not talking about this. The church very often acts as a powerful ideological machine of the state, for indirect and direct material support. Question: To me, and probably 70-80% of the population, this Ideology and its machine are not perceived at all. God is one, but these churches .... Why can not the ROC leave to deal with its Ukrainian opponents ???
        1. cniza
          cniza 22 December 2018 17: 52
          +3
          Yes, it always has been, but God is one ...
    2. svp67
      svp67 22 December 2018 18: 07
      +3
      Quote: Ivan Vasilievich
      it is interesting how much money will be invested in the Russian Orthodox Church for support and what will be the effect of this .. ??

      "- An ideal democratic society - every citizen can send any other citizen to hell, regardless of gender, nationality and religion."
      KGB General Leonid Shebarshin
    3. atalef
      atalef 22 December 2018 18: 26
      -2
      Quote: Ivan Vasilievich
      The Kremlin’s stake on the Russian Orthodox Church as a powerful organization that strengthens foreign policy has failed completely

      Alas
      what is pop - such is the coming
      Metropolitan Vinnitsa and Barsky Simeon (Shostatsky), who moved from the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, admitted that Moscow zombies its parishioners.
      “I am very sorry that 22 of the year I, like other bishops, - that we zombied our people. They said that only we are right, and other church structures are non-canonical and gracious, and dialogue with them is impossible, ”he said.
  6. Device
    Device 22 December 2018 17: 30
    +3
    How can a Jew interfere in the affairs of Christians? New Christ is risen ??
  7. Conductor
    Conductor 22 December 2018 17: 31
    0
    And what is Gundyaev silent?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 22 December 2018 17: 41
      0
      He probably chooses what to express concern, or deep concern. In general, the figure is also not quite bright.
      1. Antares
        Antares 22 December 2018 18: 31
        0
        Quote: Phil77
        He probably chooses what to express concern, or deep concern. In general, the figure is also not quite bright.

        he has a lot of grace in his life .. why does he need "concern"?
    2. solzh
      solzh 22 December 2018 17: 47
      +6
      Quote: Conductor
      And what is Gundyaev silent?

      Why is he silent? No, he is not silent, on October 8 he called on all parishioners "to a special prayer for the Orthodox Church, for our brothers and sisters who are in Ukraine, and for all those who need our prayer support and help." And also, on the same day after the festive prayer service in the Trinity-Sergius Lavra on the occasion of the day of memory of the Monk Sergius of Radonezh, he said: "Today, turning to the Monk Sergius, who did so much to reconcile the scattered principalities of feudal Russia, we ask him to with his prayers he bowed mercy to the universal Orthodox Church, reconciled the warring ones, stopped the spread of schisms, especially where schism poses a threat to national life - I mean fraternal Ukraine. We pray to St. Sergius that with our prayers in the face of God he did not leave Holy Russia and our Church. "
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 22 December 2018 17: 52
        0
        Prayer is of course a good thing (for believers), but you will agree that it will not be enough.
        1. cniza
          cniza 22 December 2018 17: 55
          +8
          The church has no other weapon besides word and prayer.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 22 December 2018 18: 00
            -3
            Oh, you are mistaken. There is such a thing as the Department of External Relations of the Russian Orthodox Church. A very solid and authoritative office in certain circles. By the way, it was headed in the past by the current Patriarch
            1. cniza
              cniza 22 December 2018 18: 02
              +5
              Yes, but she cannot "argue" with the state, this department works with other churches and denominations.
  8. vit357
    vit357 22 December 2018 17: 33
    +4
    Yes, you need to read the classics, but on the outskirts N.V. Gogol is a foreign writer, and his work Taras Bulba explains a lot in matters of faith wink Please quote:
    “Have you not heard anything about what is being done in the hetman?”
    - And what? - said one of the smoking chieftains.
    - Uh! what? It can be seen that the Tatar covered his ears with glutton that you had not heard anything.
    - Tell me, what is being done there?
    - And then it is done that they were born and baptized, have not yet seen such a thing.
    “Tell us what is being done, dog son!” - shouted one of the crowd, apparently losing his patience.
    - Such a time has now started up, that the saints are no longer ours.
    - How not ours?
    - Now the Jews have them on lease. If you don’t pay the Jews in advance, then you can’t rule the masses.
    - What are you talking about?
    - And if the clever Jew does not put the badge with his unclean hand on Holy Easter, then it is impossible to sanctify Easter.
    “He is lying, brother brothers, it cannot be that an unclean Jew would put the badge on Holy Easter!”
    “Listen! .. I’ll tell you something else: and priests are now traveling all over Ukraine in tarataykas.” Yes, it’s not a misfortune, that it’s in tarataykas, but the misfortune, that they harness not horses, but simply Orthodox Christians. Listen up! I’ll tell you something else: they already say that the Jews are sewing skirts from priestly robes. These are the things that are happening in Ukraine, in pan! And here you are sitting on Zaporozhye and walking, yes, it seems that a Tatar has given you fear that you have neither eyes nor ears - nothing, and you don’t hear what is happening in the world.
  9. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 22 December 2018 17: 42
    +1
    Crazy decree chekushki ...
    That's just why they have secular power climbs into the affairs of the church, and here in Russia, priests climb everywhere, worse than cockroaches?
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Reserve buildbat
        Reserve buildbat 22 December 2018 17: 58
        +2
        Nothing that they violate that very constitution?
        Only in the USSR was the church in its rightful place. That is, it was separated from the state and paid taxes. To restore this order ...
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 22 December 2018 18: 08
          0
          Even under Peter the First.
    2. rayruav
      rayruav 22 December 2018 18: 05
      0
      construction battalion, I agree with you, but look how this news is being discussed on, as if they were priests, but at what speed medieval cockroaches breed in many heads, I generally keep quiet
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 22 December 2018 18: 24
        +2
        I’ll try to explain to you. I’ll tell you right away that I’m an atheist (well, I was brought up like this, but it’s somehow wrong to change my beliefs), but I think that the Orthodox Church is one of the spiritual bonds of our people, and the higher its spirituality, the stronger it is. respected, at least afraid, so the conclusion is that the next strong nation is a strong country.
        1. Ivan Vasilievich
          Ivan Vasilievich 22 December 2018 18: 32
          0
          Anathema to Count Leo Tolstoy ..
        2. rayruav
          rayruav 22 December 2018 18: 35
          0
          Phil, I understand you, but if we do not stand up for LDNR, then why are we almost ready to go to Kiev with church affairs, in a very strange way our church is separated from the state in the school almost by the law of God, but where is dialectical materialism?
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 22 December 2018 18: 42
            0
            Yes, no one will go to Kiev because of inter-church affairs, I'm talking about the fact that there are many believers in our country, the church (Orthodox) is an authority, so you can understand their concern and resentment! Something like this. I will repeat atheist.
    3. Antares
      Antares 22 December 2018 18: 34
      -2
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      That's just why they have secular power climbs into the affairs of the church, and here in Russia, priests climb everywhere, worse than cockroaches?

      Well, war, situation, the state is climbing everywhere. (Or maybe the example of the USSR among the Ukrainian elite)
      Moreover, the question is in money.
      Well, the Russian Federation is there. Orthodoxy as a pillar and ideology. True, it did not work. The same state-owned corporation of interests ... You can safely think so ... Rosneft, Gazprom, Rosatom, the Russian Orthodox Church - and others are concentrated interests of the current Russian Federation. As we see, they are beaten by these interests.
  10. Fedorov
    Fedorov 22 December 2018 18: 20
    -2
    The church and who controls it has always been a source of power and power in all ages. And heinous acts in the name were committed, up to genocide. . And believing puppets can reach fanaticism.
    Let's say I tried to pour some kind of pop on my oath with a gun with a gun in 1996, without asking me. I turned away, although a believer, a cross from a sleeve. It was like a team from the top, you can successfully kill everyone in the name of the church at the same time incomprehensible, well, and window dress .. sad
    The Church and Faith are always in the soul. In the heart. And it didn’t matter to the Red Army - atheist - Buddhist .. under a tank with a grenade - Did he think to which party patriarchy he belonged?
    Well, I think spinning around in a frying pan while I’m alive. am
  11. Ham
    Ham 22 December 2018 18: 28
    +1
    as a result of persecution, martyrs always appear ... around which then those who decided to stand to the end rally rally ...
    Kurt Volcker (you don’t think that chocolate himself thought of everything?) Should read the history of Christianity before starting this whole farce
  12. midshipman
    midshipman 22 December 2018 18: 30
    +2
    And what will be called the SYNAGOGE, which is secretly visited by the valzman?
    1. Borisovich
      Borisovich 22 December 2018 18: 44
      +8
      Quote: midshipman
      A SYNAGOGU, which is secretly visited by a waltzman?

      Shinok.
  13. Strashila
    Strashila 22 December 2018 18: 35
    0
    And the church of the schismatics will be indicated in the name Istanbul. according to the law.
  14. mehan
    mehan 22 December 2018 18: 36
    -1
    Third Rome rebelled against the second?
    It is interesting.
  15. Fedorov
    Fedorov 22 December 2018 18: 44
    0
    Does anyone even know that the doctrine of the rebirth of the soul - reincarnation was abolished in Christianity at the Council of Constantinople in the 6th century? Not a single minister of the church answered me. Like you are in sin ... What are you asking such questions .. request
  16. Berkut24
    Berkut24 22 December 2018 19: 05
    +2
    This is all temporary. Either Khokhlostan will fall apart and issues will be decided differently, or the current government will be recognized as illegitimate, and with it everything that it has taken.
  17. 23424636
    23424636 22 December 2018 19: 12
    +4
    Waltzman, as a cross, climbed very deeply into beheading, but there is a certain charisma in this to get away from ernism with the satanic names of the Russian lands in 2001, the now deceased Patriarch Alexy !! He persuaded Kuchma not to twitch with autocephaly in the language of Judea Grushevsky, for then all the canonical parishes would be called Russian and Kuchma refrained from madness, for he asked for the support of the Chernigov saints Theodosius and Lawrence and removed himself, thereby saving his family from extinction and curse. and the church remained supposedly called Ukrainian as it began to personify the schismatic denisenko, who did not complete his deed in the 90s, cut off by the Kharkov Cathedral, which, due to loss of spirit or for loot, retained this name for the Kiev Exarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church
  18. APASUS
    APASUS 22 December 2018 19: 25
    0
    Who would have thought how fast the world is changing. The heads of state are destroying the church and creating a new religion, openly flouting the country's Constitution. And Europe, looking at all this, silently agrees
    1. rayruav
      rayruav 22 December 2018 19: 50
      +1
      apasus, and Europe itself, what is it like for a long time, their new religion-tolerance
  19. irazum
    irazum 22 December 2018 19: 33
    0
    The church should be with the people, not with power. It makes no difference where, in Ukraine, in Russia or elsewhere. With people, not with power.
  20. Praetorian4
    Praetorian4 22 December 2018 19: 44
    0
    Clinical just
  21. besleney59.
    besleney59. 22 December 2018 19: 45
    +1
    the meaning of this lawmaking is primarily to deprive the UOC of the name and, accordingly, of the documented rights to rent temples, laurels, monasteries ... followed by the maximum possible seizure of property (we will not talk about justice in Ukraine ..) ... the following law Apparently, there will be a law on the church parish (let's call it conditionally), according to which the ownership of the churches will not be determined by priests, but by the entire parish, which makes it possible to gather groups of watered guest artists from the Istanbul church who will declare that they are flocks of this parish and wish the transition to the PTsU ... one can only wish steadfastness to priests and the flock of the UOC ...
  22. loginovich
    loginovich 22 December 2018 20: 15
    0
    This Facebook Comment Dmitry Dzhangirov
    December 20 at 14:12
    I am not strong in the Canon, but, they say, I think something in PR. So, it seems to me that the amendments adopted today, which make us change the name of the UOC, can also be implemented.
    "Canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Spiritual Unity with the Russian Orthodox Church". It doesn't break the law, does it?
  23. LeonidL
    LeonidL 22 December 2018 20: 23
    +1
    The very formulation of the question, which is possible only in Absurdistan, is surprising !!!! The lay president, who in principle has a dubious relation to Orthodoxy, interferes with the affairs of the Church with his laws! What relation does Verkhovna Zrada, a congregation of laity of various confessions, have to the Church, and how does this congregation have the audacity to decide church affairs, if according to the Constitution of Ukraine the church is separated from the state? However, this is according to the Constitution of Ukraine, not Absurdistan. In Absurdistan, everything is possible, for Absurdistan everything is normal oligarch - president, market director - prime minister, tankman - admiral, attorney general without legal education, speaker of parliament - city madman, interest-bearing tranches - New Year's gifts from a kind overseas uncle, pastor named "Kurinaya Guzka "is a strategist, General" North-South "is a commander, defeats are declared" peremogs ", provocations with heroes who have shit from fear are a matter of honor, there is martial law and an aggressor - but there is no war and the aggressor continues to trade ... Absurdistan!
  24. German Titov
    German Titov 22 December 2018 20: 43
    +4
    Dyakuyu God !!! I'm in the DPR. We have, Thank God, the laws of "powder" do not work. Christians in their own way, Muslims in their own way, Jews in their own way (no one bothers anyone). With the witnesses, "fun happened" (probably got everyone). There is a "Trupchinovskaya Cherkva" in an orderly row of "walking ..." It's boring in Donetsk. You have nowhere to send a "Mormon" or a "Witness". "Roma" is practically invisible. "The people have lost their hearts," the elders are given a place in transport (not in the cemetery).
  25. tralmaster.
    tralmaster. 22 December 2018 21: 53
    0
    In a country where the saying is my hut from the edge, I don’t know anything is the basis of society, you can create anything you want a bunch of organizations and bandits.
  26. Turkir
    Turkir 22 December 2018 23: 09
    0
    It is interesting to know where, by whom, and when was Waltzman baptized into Orthodoxy?
    1. Vlad Petrov
      Vlad Petrov 23 December 2018 09: 41
      +1
      A purebred Jew, a military “Tomosos” Valtsman, in the world of drunks was seen simultaneously in the Greek Catholic and Orthodox churches, as well as the Secretary General of the Turkish national Varfalosomeiko.
  27. Moskovit
    Moskovit 23 December 2018 00: 40
    +3
    It is funny that the Jews talk about the Orthodox Church. It’s like the priest interpreted the Talmud)). Well, okay, the Orthodox Church survived repression, executions, survived everything. Survive and Pyotr Lyakseyich. Brothers, work. Sisters too. We won’t leave you!
  28. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 23 December 2018 02: 46
    -1
    This Poroshenko went and with him the church in three Russian letters - These are just echoes of our struggle with the United States. Tra-la-la ... the church stood for thousands of years ... Where did it stand if they picked it up and put the booty up? Ugh.
  29. Device
    Device 23 December 2018 05: 08
    0
    Another pebble in the garden is that the young religions created the Jews for their hoarfrost. Created and continue to adjust and manage. Waltzmann confirms this. It was not without reason that in the old days they said that a thief was forgiven, that a baptized man.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. Igor-03-01-56
    Igor-03-01-56 23 December 2018 08: 20
    0
    For the thing is really bad ...

    D. B.

    If I was like Bulls, it’s very brainy,
    I would use my talent correctly.
    I would write ballads, as Bykov creates,
    And the answer was clear and tricky.
    It’s very difficult sometimes to find words for me,
    You can get old at work,
    I took from Dmitry: the Patriarch and the Head
    Long thought how to promote? ..

    (All this happens in an Islamic country,
    From that, it’s doubly mysterious.)

    They laid open cards on the table,
    What to hide when the Orthodox are here,
    The president tells him:
    - Need a throne!
    The patriarch replied:
    - Oh, conceited ones!

    The president replied:
    - Thomas is needed, seriously!
    I don’t have life today without Thomas!
    Patriarch:
    “You have not grown up to him yet.”
    I still have not outlived the complexes.

    If he were at home, of course, he would have nailed it.
    Here he answered:
    - I truncated. I got it.
    And looking the other person in the eye
    The patriarch spoke more confidently:
    “I saw an image on your wall ...”
    “I confess, but I’m unintentionally ...”

    And he gave the order to all his special services
    To comb, paint over, strengthen the mode,
    Press all the priests unreliable to the nail,
    And the fifth column, naturally
    Scatter
    All traitors of all sexes
    Agent, of course, I swear -
    Both in the Cabinet of Ministers and in the Rada - there’s a lot of zrad everywhere ...
    Not the first time they look for a heap!
    After all, once choked and old and young here,
    Effective, and very inexpensive.

    But said don't take strict measures
    To Uniates, for example,
    And to the Baptists, for example ...
    He could make a list by morning.
    And with a scythe, a lady known to all,
    And in one Lavra reptile,
    And in another Lavra reptile,
    And he needs only the local!
    He died, a worthy maidan set sail,
    Pulled from the community cool.
    That would make a series, write a novel ...
    They didn’t even respond with a ballad!

    And rummaging through his bins in Istanbul,
    There was only a staff in them, well, and beside it
    From Turkish cheap stuff
    The patriarch said:
    - I give it away for nothing
    Because I live on trust ...

    But still not the first comer - oh! -
    Still need to look for the perfect - oh! -
    And they’ll put them on the chair,
    And of course, all his churches recognize
    And they will certainly congratulate him from the Hill,
    The patriarch promised the rest.
    And the enemies will be strict
    And bend them all to the horn
    For the work is holy and faithful, -
    And the patriarch gave him a pledge,
    And it, in him, is true!
    Everyone will tell him
    Everyone will show him
    Here he will be provided with local myrrh -
    Best of all,
    And church wine
    For the price, everything is there, human.

    Everyone seems to be happy
    Ile pretend -
    The metropolis turned out at them.
    Not Moscow, but Istanbul is now a favorite there,
    And they will not remember Moscow anymore.

    And everyone was waiting for flowering
    Twenty seven long years.
    A toast flies over the Maidan.
    Will Thomas be gone? a secret so far
    What will be in it
    No one admits ...
  32. Alex20042004
    Alex20042004 23 December 2018 09: 53
    0

    I believe that in the photo are all the Orthodox of Ukraine, who cherish the fate of their homeland?
  33. Metallurg_2
    Metallurg_2 23 December 2018 11: 11
    0
    This is despite the fact that Peter Lyakseich himself was ordained deacon in the church of the "aggressor country".
    And when you consider that he is Waltzman, it’s generally a cross.
  34. Gato
    Gato 23 December 2018 12: 13
    0
    "The walls of churches do not reach the sky" (C)
  35. Crane
    Crane 23 December 2018 14: 09
    0
    Quote: irazum
    The church should be with the people, not with power. It makes no difference where, in Ukraine, in Russia or elsewhere. With people, not with power.
    agree
    Now, I don’t think that God is interested in the legal address of the diocese.
    otherwise, God does not understand: where to drop the mail
  36. DPN
    DPN 23 December 2018 21: 47
    0
    This is their BUSINESS and their life. We are also no better than them.
  37. iouris
    iouris 24 December 2018 12: 37
    0
    Whoever was the first to say that this is precisely a "schism" is not a true believer. Yes, this is a sabotage of the US State Department against Orthodoxy, but the Orthodox Church remains. Those who believe that the US State Department is God's deputy on earth are atheists.