In Tokyo, declassified documents on consultations with the United States on the Kuril Islands

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan declassified the documentation, which in one way or another concerned Tokyo’s consultations with Washington on the issue of the Kuriles. This is a consultation of the model 1960 of the year, in which the then Prime Minister Nobusuke Kisi participated.

The documents, in particular, contain information that Tokyo and the United States discussed the issue of a possible Japanese “consent to receive two islands from the USSR”. These are the islands of Shikotan and Habomai.

In consultations with the United States, it was said that Japan "is ready to agree to two islands" and receive from the USSR "guarantees for fishermen for additional opportunities for fishing in the area of ​​two other islands - Kunashir and Iturup. It is stated that the USSR "could give guarantees of safe fishing." Nobusuke Kisi held talks with US President Dwight Eisenhower and on the issue of "reducing the number of American military in Japan." Kishi also launched an initiative to restore full-fledged armed forces in Japan.

It is worth noting that the current Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe is the grandson of the very Nobusuke Kishi (on the maternal line). This is evidence, so to speak, of the elitism of Japanese democracy, which remains on paper for democracy. The same American occupation troops, despite numerous protests from the local population, both stood in Japan and continue to stand. Moreover, Washington is considering the possibility of expanding the military bases in Okinawa, and the opinion of ordinary Japanese is not interested in either Washington or the elite in Tokyo.

Comments

[Uncle lee]

Opportunities for expanding military bases in Okinawa.

Well, also to deploy in the Kuril Islands .... A mug does not crack!?

[Svarog]

It’s no secret that the United States stands behind Japan ... and of course, the islands are not even subject to discussion, as long as the US military bases are on Japanese territory ... This should be the first condition ... just to start talking about the transfer of islands ..

[41 REGION]

Quote: Svarog

as long as the military bases of the usa are on Japanese territory ... This should be the first condition .. to just start talking about the transfer of the islands ..

You don’t need to talk about this, even if the Japanese drive out the striped
Of course, you can change Shikotan and Habomai to Hokkaido and Honshu, but here they will be against

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Svarog

It’s no secret that the United States stands behind Japan ... and of course, the islands are not even subject to discussion, as long as the US military bases are on Japanese territory ... This should be the first condition ... just to start talking about the transfer of islands ..

There is still the first ... Japan now DOESN’T RECOGNIZE THE RESULTS OF THE SECOND WORLD, i.e. and his act of surrender.
Therefore, first recognition of the results of the Second World War, then the withdrawal of American troops from Japan, then the demilitarization of Japan, and only then talk about two islands of the type on which they surrendered to you? They and we are not bad.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Captain Pushkin

Japan now DOESN’T RECOGNIZE THE SECOND WORLD RESULTS, i.e. and his act of surrender.

Yes, not only the Japs do not recognize

All of them, "civilized", must be smoothly put into place, forgotten ..

[Setrac]

Quote: Captain Pushkin

then the withdrawal of American troops from Japan

So one wonders why Russia this point? Let them sit under the Americans and not rock the boat, Russia does not need their freedom at all.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Svarog

even islands are not subject to discussion, as long as US military bases are on Japanese territory ..

So in the declaration of 56 there is an appendix which clearly states that the USSR will transfer 2 islands after the signing of the peace treaty and the complete absence of American bases on ALL of Japan — and this will not mean there will be no islands!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Svarog

It’s no secret that the United States stands behind Japan ... and of course, the islands are not even subject to discussion, as long as the US military bases are on Japanese territory ... This should be the first condition ... just to start talking about the transfer of islands ..

Well, as I expected, the ice has broken, there are already those who agree to give the islands on certain conditions.
After a while, these conditions will gradually "decrease", so to speak. And then without any conditions.
The conditions for signing a peace treaty are dictated by the winner. Russia, as the successor of the USSR, is the winner. And in this situation, Japan dictates the conditions for signing a peace treaty - give the islands back, then we will sign. And you, Svarog, agree to the diktat of the Japs? Change "nickname", do not disgrace our ancient gods.

[bouncyhunter]

Hello Volodya!

Quote from Uncle Lee

A mug does not crack!?

Who: yap or mattresses? Or combined?

[Uncle lee]

Quote: bouncyhunter

together

Here is the answer!
pasha

[501 Legion]

in the current realities it is not possible to transfer. plus any transfer of territory violates the constitution of the Russian Federation.

[Uncle lee]

The name of the strait between Fr. Hokkaido and the Small Kuril ridge - SOVIET STRAIGHT!
That's what you can’t forget!

[igorbrsv]

I still think that the transfer of the two islands is possible. The question is under what conditions and for what. What will Russia gain from this? Japan’s territorial claims on all islands will not disappear from this

[Evdokim]

Quote: 501Legion

in the current realities this is not possible

If the islands are transferred to the Japanese, the Sea of ​​Okhotsk will cease to be inland, at least a Chinese, even a Belarusian can catch pollock there, without quotas and other prohibitions. With current fishing gear, they will be looted in a matter of years. And so there are few fish, and so it will not be at all. I am silent about the straits.

[Henderson]

Quote: 501Legion

plus any transfer of territory violates the constitution of the Russian Federation.

Does not break. There is no such prohibition in the constitution. Moreover, the constitution has a priority of international law over Russian. Thus, when concluding an agreement with Japan, everything will be sewn-up.

[Mouse]

what is there to declassify ... and it is so clear that without the permission of the states, the yapes will not even be able to fart ... sorry ... they only officially confirmed ...

[rotmistr60]

The Japanese stubbornly bang their heads into the wall from the Kuril Islands while not being able to get rid of the American military presence (occupation). What islands can we talk about while American bases are a threat to the Russian Far East. The absence of a peace treaty with Japan, which is emphasized by our side, has not prevented economic cooperation for decades and will not hinder it further.

[vadson]

to rent and rent one island of China for 20 years with the right to place a military air base there, and stick my own on a nearby island. it will be trolling not even 80 but 800 levels.

[Letun]

to rent and rent one island of China for 20 years with the right to place a military air base there, and stick my own on a nearby island. it will be trolling not even 80 but 800 levels.

It will not be trolling, but dullness of level 800. How are the Chinese then transported from the islands? And so the DV is already yellow from them.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: vadson

to rent and rent one island of China for 20 years with the right to place a military air base there, and stick my own on a nearby island. it will be trolling not even 80 but 800 levels.

In World War I, the Russian fleet was weak and seriously unable to fight the Germans. The king of Britain proposed the introduction of an English squadron based in the ports of Russia to the Baltic. Nikolai refused for a simple reason - it is not clear how to withdraw them later.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: rotmistr60

What islands can we talk about while American bases are a threat to the Russian Far East.

But do the events at Lake Khasan and at Khalkhin Gol not tell you anything? Is it then that the US military bases were located in Japan? Is Japan a threat to our Far East without American bases? Today may not. And tomorrow? Indeed, today the Japanese Navy will be stronger than our TF in the event of a non-nuclear conflict.

[Loess]

Nobusuke Kishi negotiated with US President Dwight Eisenhower on the issue of "reducing the number of US troops in Japan."

Judging by the presence of American bases in Japan and the absence of disputed islands in Japan, the negotiations ended unsuccessfully.

[midshipman]

I visited the Kuril Islands with a US delegation in the early 80s. It was decided to create joint chains of the RSDN "Tropic" for the possibility of civil aviation flights. They personally reported to D.F. Ustinov. We flew around the entire ridge, saw a lot of interesting things (old Japanese equipment, airfields, small arms). How the Americans were eager to go there, but I, the Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the USSR Air Force and the Head of the RTS of the USSR Air Force were against it. There was a meeting in Moscow at the US Embassy on the second floor. I noticed that American officers, when they met on our side, took a glass of champagne with gloves, and at the Embassy without gloves. Ustinov D.F. The USSR Air Force Command also supported me. We have refused the Americans to share the Kuril Islands with them. The Kurils are the Russian land. There is even an island (small) named after me "Yuri".

[Uncle lee]

Quote: midshipman

The Kuril Islands are Russian land.

Yuri Grigoryevich

[Paranoid50]

Quote: midshipman

drew attention to the fact that the American officers at a meeting on our side took a glass of champagne with gloves, and without gloves at their Embassy.

Yuri Grgoryevich, no wonder, because they did not want to leave their fingers. Were you wearing gloves at their embassy?

[midshipman]

Alexander, of course not. There were four of us. The three of us were in uniform (generals), and the director of NII-93 (this is RIRV JSC now) Yu.G. Guzhva. The fourth participant in the meeting was in civilian clothes. When passing by the American marine at the entrance of the Embassy, ​​we were saluted for a long time. The Assistant Ambassador met us below.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: midshipman

Of course not.

This is our way. As they say, with an open visor.

Quote: midshipman

When passing by the American marine at the entrance of the Embassy, ​​we were saluted for a long time.

They wouldn’t do it yet. In addition to protocol issues, there is still a question of mutual respect, even between opponents.

[Dart]

With all due respect to you !!

[Sarmat Sanych]

I trudge with GDP - the principle of a donkey and carrots! Japan - as an addict - will never come off: http: //www.iarex.ru/articles/61988.html
Meanwhile, such a military construction site is going on in the Kuril Islands, you can get afig - piers, runways and much more. In general, Lavrov recently could not stand it and told them everything, let them blow their nose with their protest))

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Sarmat Sanych

I trudge with GDP - the principle of a donkey and carrots! Japan - as an addict - will never come off: http: //www.iarex.ru/articles/61988.html
Meanwhile, such a military construction site is going on in the Kuril Islands, you can get afig - piers, runways and much more. In general, Lavrov recently could not stand it and told them everything, let them blow their nose with their protest))

There are two carrots. The second was hung in front of Putin - "well, very large-scale Japanese investments in the Russian Federation" after the transfer of the islands. Real investments are blocked under this carrot.
In my opinion, the faster the GDP throws out its carrots and explains to the Japanese that they would not bother around the islands, the faster the Japanese will throw out their own and begin to really work in the Russian Federation, which is good for us and them.

[Sarmat Sanych]

That there are investments there, the point is not at all in them, it is important to rock these nedosamuraychiki - you look and quarrel with their p.indosovsky owners. This is the main effect, and investment is a secondary issue. But the Japs ultimately have to make concessions, they still have the country gradually destroyed by floods, earthquakes and tsunamis, annually going underground and under water, the infrastructure is destroyed by billions of dollars, hundreds of dead, so our Far East has at least some plants will pull)). And on the two Kuril Islands, we will make visa-free and preferential tax regimes for the Japanese, in exchange for minimizing missile defense and air force bases in Japan.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

I do not think that Japan will be able to guarantee that the US military facilities will not be located even in the Kuril Islands, in general, while they, the Japanese, are in the orbit of US influence, negotiations with them are a crush of water in a mortar.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

I do not think that Japan will be able to guarantee that the US military facilities will not be located even in the Kuril Islands, in general, while they, the Japanese, are in the orbit of US influence, negotiations with them are a crush of water in a mortar.

The Japanese have already stated that they will not give any guarantees on American bases in the Kuril Islands, in the case of transfer of the islands.

[Mitya2424]

What !!!
For generations, the Japanese elite worship the Americans

[Alexey-74]

Japanese puppeteer is the USA. Sense to negotiate with Japan, if there is not only a territorial issue, but the political and military interest of the Americans? In addition, Japan will not be able to give a guarantee not to deploy US military bases on the islands.

[Redfox3k]

Somehow, according to my observations, any state that is in the sphere of influence of the mattress will not give any guarantees for anything. It makes no sense to negotiate with them about anything, from the word at all.

[ODERVIT]

Enough of our land to divide.

[Nychego]

Shikotan - 20 tons of rhenium per year as part of volcanic gases. Russia has practically no more rhenium suitable for mining.
The one who will give Shikotan (included in the architect. Habomai) japam shit the future of Russia is not very sickly.

[1536]

The Japanese need to show a big fat cookie! Let them think what it means. Being occupied by the United States, defeated in the rights of a country such as Japan and Germany, should be content with only a cookie from Russia.

[prior]

Maybe the Act on the unconditional surrender of Germany could be rewritten at the same time ?! and the decision of the Nuremberg trials to review?
Vigorous SHISH to you gentlemen Japanese and other foreigners!

[Tank jacket]

I want to write, so what? Not at all interesting. Who is there what is there. The Japanese work - work tirelessly. How many hours you sleep, take another hour. Sleep at work. Work, the sun is still high. Tired, there is a special suicide forest for you ... I have doubts that there are men at all. Only the middle genus-minions-office plankton remained. The most obedient slaves, and discipline wow ...

[K-50]

The same American occupation forces, despite numerous protests by the local population, both stood in Japan and continue to stand. Not only that, Washington is considering expanding military bases in Okinawa, and the views of ordinary Japanese people are not of interest to either Washington or the elite in Tokyo.

Because they have ears from dead herring, not the Kuril Islands !!!

[EXPrompt]

Putin makes a big mistake ..
Toothless toothless policy, this is a mistake.
In this particular matter, for a long time beckoning the Japanese to say that their islands will never be.
1 Japan signed a surrender in 1945.
2 Japan signed an agreement after the war with the United States, including one of the points recognizing the post-war division of its territory.
3 In1956, Khrushchev made a promise to give 2 islands, in return for the complete demilitarization of Japan. WHERE demmilitarization? 50.000 American soldiers on its territory.
4 Later Khrushchev withdrew his statement in 1956.
5 In 1956, there was no 200 mile economic zone as a concept. Khrushchev promising the island did not understand what he would give back a lot of water.

It’s high time to say that the Japanese will never be yours in the mug of the island. This is Putin's mistake.
We are already a superpower in terms of military power, and now it’s time to behave as a superpower and talk with limitrophs from this point of view.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: EXPrompt

Khrushchev promising the island did not understand what he would give back a lot of water.

In fact, the post completely agree. Private clarification on this phrase.
Khrushchev did not know what he had signed.
The history of the issue is as follows. During the negotiations, the Japanese put forward a number of unfounded claims, "dead cats". The point of such tactics is to bargain for some real preferences in exchange for the removal of obviously impossible requirements. With this tactic, it takes time to approach the signing of a contract. Khrushchev was not strong in diplomacy (like all subsequent heads of the USSR and the Russian Federation). He gave the command to end this "burden" and sign the contract. This can be done now and immediately only on the terms of the Japanese. The Japanese could not believe their happiness that the abandoned "fool" turned into a recognition of territorial claims.
But a diplomat who could explain to Khrushchev the essence was not found - his shirt is closer to his body.

[Elephant]

We should not be interested in the opinion of Japan and the United States on the Kuril Islands!

[Mentat]

Quote: EXPrompt

Later, Khrushchev withdrew his statement in 1956.

Lavrov claimed that the Japanese did it. Apparently after the failure of the negotiations with the Americans mentioned in the article.

[Mentat]

Quote: EXPrompt

It’s high time to say that the Japanese will never be yours in the mug of the island. This is Putin's mistake.

Are you an expert negotiator? :)
Can you imagine what staff is working on the implementation of such negotiations? Specialists. The best.
And here you are all in a white coat, the gait of a pacifier proud, shaking his mane, enter the forum, scratching, and declare "Putin's mistakes." You yourself are not funny to colic?

With the Japanese, we act in an Asian style. Not answering directly no, but say what they have to do. Specifically: unconditionally recognize and legally establish Russia's sovereignty over the islands, only after that negotiations can be continued ... or they may not be) As Lavrov said, recognition of WWII results is a necessary first step.