Military Review

The development of the "Coalition". Towed implement in addition to self-propelled

76
For the Russian army, various artillery systems of all main classes are being developed. In the future, a new model may be put into service, based on already known components. A few days ago it became known that the military department wanted to get not only self-propelled artillery installations 2С35 "Coalition-SV" with 2А88 guns, but also a unified towed system.


The first reports on the plans of the military department regarding the further development of the artillery complex “Coalition-SV” were published a few days ago - December 14. The Izvestia edition received interesting information from representatives of the Ministry of Defense. However, the exact data source was not named. An unnamed source in the ministry told about future plans for the development of barreled artillery, as well as the prerequisites for their appearance.

The Russian military continues to analyze the experience of the war in Syria, and on the basis of such an analysis one or other conclusions are made. Among other things, such conclusions affect the development of artillery. So, the Middle East conflict showed that in the category of 152-mm artillery systems, the army requires not only self-propelled installations. Such howitzers should be produced in towed version, which has its advantages in certain situations.



According to older plans, the perspective 152-mm 2-88 cannon was to be used only on self-propelled combat vehicles. First of all, was developed tracked SAU 2C35 "Coalition-SV". Also, work was carried out on a similar self-propelled on a wheeled car chassis. Now the plans have changed, and the family of artillery systems will be complemented with a towed weapon.

The new project involves the use of ready-made tools with new components, which should simplify and speed up the work. Thanks to this, test samples will be launched next year. However, the source of "Izvestia" has not yet become clear about the timing of the completion of tests and the adoption of new howitzers for service. Most of the technical details of the project remain secret.

Only one possible feature of the project is indicated. It is argued that the 2А88 can be obtained with a shorter barrel during processing for use on the new gun carriage. The reason for such refinement may be the requirements for mobility and restrictions associated with the transportation or landing of the gun.

"Izvestia" called the positive qualities of a promising towed gun, causing the very fact of the appearance of the project. The towed version of the "Coalition" must retain the main part of the firing characteristics and combat qualities of the self-propelled unit. The effectiveness of the fire and other parameters should remain at the same level. At the same time, a howitzer on a towed carriage will be easier to manufacture and cheaper. It is also expected a sharp reduction in size and weight, although the gun and need a tractor.

Reducing the mass will allow to throw a howitzer through the air. With the help of military transport helicopters of various types of weapons, it will be possible to quickly deliver them to remote or remote areas. The basic self-propelled version of the Coalition-SV system, for obvious reasons, does not have this capability.

***

Work on the project of ACS "Coalition-SV" has not yet been completed, but the promising model of equipment is already approaching its adoption. In the coming years, the military and industry plan to complete the refinement of this model and launch its full-scale mass production. At the same time, or with a minimum lag, a new weapon on the same base can go into the series. As the leadership of the Ministry of Defense decided, the new howitzers are needed by the army not only on self-propelled chassis, but also on towed carriages.

The technical details of the new project have not yet been published, but the available data on the “Coalition-SV” self-propelled gun allows us to present an approximate picture and try to understand what the new work will bring. From the latest reports it follows that the new project of the towed howitzer will use the maximum possible number of existing components. However, refinement of finished products to obtain the necessary characteristics and capabilities is not excluded.

The 2C35 ACS is completed with an 152-mm 2-88 rifled howitzer. This gun has a barrel with a length of 52 caliber, equipped with a developed muzzle brake and an ejection device. In the case of self-propelled guns, the barrel is mounted on developed recoil devices, hidden under the armor cover of a characteristic look. The design of the tower and the gun mount allow shooting in any direction with a wide range of angles of vertical guidance.

The 2А88 howitzer uses separate charging with a variable modular charge. A projectile of the required type and several propellant modules — compact cases with a specified amount of gunpowder — are sequentially loaded into the chamber. Self-propelled gun "Coalition-SV" received a fully automatic loading system. According to the crew’s commands, she independently retrieves a projectile of the required type from the packings and sends it to the barrel, after which it sends the required number of charge modules. Automatics of the gun turret is also capable of receiving shots from the ground or from a transport-loading vehicle.

You can imagine what the towed version of the 2А88 gun required by the Ministry of Defense will look like. Apparently, the barrel group and recoil devices can be borrowed from the existing project self-propelled guns. In this case, for the new version of the gun, you will need a carriage of the original design or a product based on existing components. The look of the mast has not yet been clarified.

Currently, Russian artillery units are armed with several samples of 152-mm guns in towed version. Such systems are built on the basis of traditional carriages. The carriages, consisting of two machines, equipped with a wheel course and a pair of sliding beds are used. Upper machine gun carriage is equipped with mounts for sighting devices. The security of the calculation is provided by shield cover. Such a carriage, for example, is used by the towed 2A65 Msta-B gun.

There is every reason to believe that the towed version of the 2А88 howitzer will not be equipped with automatic loader, as this will lead to an unacceptable increase in size and weight of the structure. Serve shells and charge modules to the gun will have to manually. However, it is possible to use the dropping mechanism, which significantly facilitates the work of the loaders. One way or another, in terms of its rate of fire, the towed weapon will lose to the self-propelled model.

The carriage of a new type, like other systems of this kind, is likely to have manual pick-up mechanisms brought to the gunner’s workplace. The latter will have to work with the "traditional" control and guidance systems inherent in existing towed guns. In this case, the towed howitzer 2А88 can retain some of the possibilities of self-propelled installation. "Coalition-SV" is equipped with tools to interact with the Unified Tactical Control System, which provides data transmission and target designation. Devices of similar purpose, but in a different version can be applied to towed guns.

According to open data, the maximum firing range of the "conventional" high-explosive fragmentation projectile for the 2-35 ACS is 40 km. The use of active-reactive ammunition, including managed, allows to increase the firing range to 70 km. Such firing characteristics are achieved through new modular propelling charges, as well as with the help of a relatively long barrel.

The 2А88 towed artillery system can show similar or smaller characteristics. According to the source "Izvestia", the trunk can be used in a new project of reduced length. Thus, a slight decrease in the muzzle energy of the projectile can be expected, resulting in a reduction in the maximum firing range. However, it should be noted that in this case the towed 2А88 howitzer will surpass most other artillery systems of its caliber in terms of its main characteristics.

***

At the moment, the newest domestic serial SAU with an 152 caliber mm gun is the MSTA-S 2C19 combat vehicle. Also in the troops there is a significant number of towed howitzers 2A65 "Msta-B". Further development of the domestic self-propelled howitzer artillery led to the appearance of the 2X35 “Coalition-SV” combat vehicle with the 152-mm 2X88 gun. Previously it was assumed that the latter will be used only on a self-propelled platform, but now the plans have changed, and the army wants to have both weapons.

Thus, it was decided to continue the development of artillery systems in accordance with previously tested and proven concepts. The command decided that both self-propelled and towed systems with standardized guns should still be present in the artillery units. This should provide some combat and operational advantages. First of all, the presence of different weapons with different capabilities will allow to solve a wider range of tasks.

Self-propelled artillery mounts have obvious advantages over towed guns. They have greater tactical mobility, and are also able to quickly deploy and leave a firing position. In addition, SAU can be equipped with automatic loader or even a full-fledged uninhabited fighting compartment. All this in a known manner facilitates the work of the crew and improves the basic characteristics and combat qualities.

At the same time, towed howitzers have advantages. First of all, it is a lower cost, simplifying the production of products in large quantities. Similar capabilities were used in the production of Msta howitzers: the industry manufactured over 1200 towed guns 2A65 and less than 750 self-propelled guns 2C19. Smaller and heavier towed howitzers turn out to be more convenient in terms of transporting military transport aviation. If necessary, they can be landed in a landing or parachute manner. Thus, towed guns can quickly arrive at positions inaccessible to self-propelled artillery.

***

The result of all this is actual requirements for artillery armament, which provide for the creation and operation of systems of different classes on various platforms. For the effective solution of a wide range of tasks, the army needs both self-propelled and towed systems. Such theses have been repeatedly confirmed by practice, and again became relevant as a result of the analysis of the Syrian war.

The development of howitzer artillery through the creation of self-propelled and towed systems continued until the appearance of the latest at the moment serial and front-line systems. In the recent past, such an approach was decided to be abandoned, and the 2А88 can only be used on self-propelled platforms. However, the experience of real armed conflicts has shown the fallacy of such a decision. The necessary measures have already been taken, and next year the newest domestic towed howitzer will be tested. In the distant future, it will be able to become a convenient and effective addition to the self-propelled unit "Coalition-SV".

On the materials of the sites:
https://iz.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://arms-expo.ru/
http://uralvagonzavod.ru/
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/
Author:
Photos used:
Kremlin.ru
76 comments
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  1. Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 December 2018 06: 45
    +18
    Damn, this is some kind of drink, to create, in fact, an analogue of 2A65. Hiding behind the notorious "Syrian experience"
    Moreover, an analogue with a complicated shutter and absolutely uncomfortable modular loading for towed guns.
    This is not the "Syrian experience", this is a stupid obligation to the Americans, with their super-expensive "axes"
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 18 December 2018 08: 58
      -3
      Quote: Spade
      Damn, this is some kind of drink, to create, in fact, an analogue of 2A65. Hiding behind the notorious "Syrian experience"
      Moreover, an analogue with a complicated shutter and absolutely uncomfortable modular loading for towed guns.
      This is not the "Syrian experience", this is a stupid obligation to the Americans, with their super-expensive "axes"

      I think the military, tired of waiting for self-propelled guns, is asked to do at least something faster. request
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 December 2018 09: 33
        +7
        Why should they get tired? In terms of combat use, the "Coalition" is no different from modern modifications of the 2S19
        The difference between the 2A65 and the hypothetical towed "Coalition" is even worse. Here and the rate of fire is lower, and the convenience is less, and the danger of spontaneous combustion of modules when loading is much higher
        Modular loading is a piece optimized for "automatic", moreover, it requires cooling the charging chamber for an acceptable rate of fire
        1. 1810BM86
          1810BM86 18 December 2018 11: 06
          0
          So what to do, to simultaneously issue 2A65 and the coalition is not profitable. As they say for the lack of a maid.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 December 2018 13: 44
            +6
            Quote: 1810BM86
            So what to do, to simultaneously issue 2A65 and the coalition is not profitable. As they say for the lack of a maid.

            Why release them? And so there are a lot of them, while most are in storage. Put ASUNO, finish it to mind, here you have a normal towed howitzer for local wars.
            1. 1810BM86
              1810BM86 18 December 2018 13: 48
              +1
              So we and ML-20 are in storage, as it were. What to do now? winked
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 18 December 2018 13: 54
                +3
                For local wars, for hospitals, the ML-20 is quite suitable. Their main problem is the time to transfer from combat to marching and vice versa.
                1. 1810BM86
                  1810BM86 18 December 2018 14: 00
                  +1
                  Here, the logical question is, why was the D-20, why 2A65? That's right, it should be exactly the modern one available, even if it is not necessary now, but it should.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 18 December 2018 14: 48
                    +2
                    Quote: 1810BM86
                    That's right, it must be modern in stock

                    Well, who is against it?
                    ACS, wheeled ACS, "motorized" installation with an open placement of the gun.

                    Why spend money on towed non-self-propelled guns that are very niche in modern conditions?
                    1. Vladimir Postnikov
                      Vladimir Postnikov 18 December 2018 17: 20
                      0
                      I agree with you completely. Not only is there little money in the treasury, they are also spent very unreasonably.
                      Quote: Spade
                      Why spend money on towed non-self-propelled guns that are very niche in modern conditions?

                      Because they cost money. You take a look at what the "Kalashnikov concern" MO is trying to do. The institution of lobbying in the Ministry of Defense of this period will be remembered for a long time. Legal business, which is not prohibited, and even hides behind the "Syrian experience".
        2. Hole puncher
          Hole puncher 18 December 2018 11: 16
          -2
          Quote: Spade
          In terms of combat use, the "Coalition" is no different from modern modifications of the 2S19
          The difference between the 2A65 and the hypothetical towed "Coalition" is even worse.

          Maybe they want to make a lightweight version of the type M777, so that you can carry it with a helicopter?
          1. nils
            nils 18 December 2018 12: 47
            0
            In the future, may come into service ...
            The number of intentions at times exceeds the real yields! All to the parade!
            The electorate applauds! How long?
            I would be more comfortable with such an article title:
            "The supply of a new one to the troops has begun ..."
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 December 2018 13: 49
            +4
            We do not have such helicopters. Thanks to Medvedev, who chose to cut the Mi-6 instead of upgrading it. There are few Mi-26 “cows”, they are too expensive for mass equipping of troops. Well, for the Mi-8, you need to make a completely different weapon.
  2. Graz
    Graz 18 December 2018 07: 28
    +6
    complete stupidity, all the same, such a howitzer needs a car for transportation, so they would do then a platform on a truck at once, like the French and Turks
    1. 1810BM86
      1810BM86 18 December 2018 11: 26
      0
      Then you need two trucks, one for the table, one for calculation and shells. Again, this can be attached to MTLB, well, or manually dragged, shoved into the plane and dropped from there with a parachute. It seems to be more mobile, and more universal.
  3. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 18 December 2018 08: 51
    +3
    Unclear. If you do it right, you need two options:
    1. on a truck chassis (without a tower)
    2. simplified tracked (without tower)
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 18 December 2018 08: 56
    +1
    I always believed that the development of a new type of weapon model should be justified by a clear superiority over the previous one ... And then some sort of analg ....
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 18 December 2018 10: 29
      +2
      Artillery has always been done on this principle - one barrel, different carriers .... Towed howitzers are needed to create reserves in case of a big war.
      1. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 18 December 2018 11: 19
        -1
        Quote: Zaurbek
        Towed howitzers are needed to build reserves in case of a major war.

        Towed artillery is a thing of the past, now it is being put on wheels. An exception is the M777, but it is intended for transportation by air by helicopters and a tiltrotor.
        1. 1810BM86
          1810BM86 18 December 2018 11: 32
          +1
          Quote: Puncher
          Towed artillery is a thing of the past, now it is being put on wheels. An exception is the M777, but it is intended for transportation by air by helicopters and a tiltrotor.

          Well, discard something self-propelled caliber 122+ with a parachute, yeah.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 18 December 2018 11: 34
            +1
            Modern 155mm howitzers are lightened with color and have the same weight as the D-30 ... the Russian Federation is still slow in this regard.
            1. pogis
              pogis 18 December 2018 17: 47
              +2
              Not that 122's boxes contain 2 projectile-charge, and 152 mm ONE, with the same weight and dimensions! In the Airborne Forces will be pleased at 2 times less than b / c! Better D-30 has not yet been invented by anyone for .... mobile troops! And for slippers enough of what is in stock. My opinion is cut!
              PS: ... THERE IS NO MONEY for "Armata" !!!
              PS2: I shot from ML-20, and there the barrel was rolled back and its knurled was just the song of a black dove + front end, ganshpurga. 10 shots, rollback above normal, and to the scrap. On D-30 there are also wonderful moments of unrequited love of a gas mask (and all equipment and weapons for calculation number) and a jack yes
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 18 December 2018 17: 51
                0
                I also shot from the ML-20 and D-30 and MT-12 ... 155/152 - a different level ... whatever one may say. And another power. 122 are now being replaced with lighter howitzer mortars.
                1. pogis
                  pogis 18 December 2018 18: 05
                  0
                  From the "Rapier" I fired only with an inset barrel (PKT), but I saw this system with a locator. What are our mortars (towed) comparable in firing range to at least the legendary M-30?
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 18 December 2018 18: 15
                    0
                    I lied, we didn’t shoot from MT, but shot from 85mm. Some of the latest options are 120mm ... there is 12km range and guided missiles will be used. But it is a fact that 122 mm is removed from service.
                    1. pogis
                      pogis 18 December 2018 18: 17
                      0
                      And the marine corps?
                      1. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 18 December 2018 20: 52
                        0
                        and the landing ... remained. But there will be no new ones. And all self-propelled guns 122 mm leave.
  5. garri-lin
    garri-lin 18 December 2018 10: 44
    0
    I think this is done for unification of ammunition. A towed gun is needed, it has a number of advantages. So let it be unified. Large expenses are not expected. In fact, you need to attach an adequate carriage to the gun.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 18 December 2018 11: 17
      0
      The ammunition there is the same as on the MSTA .... Unification by the barrel and the OMS.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 18 December 2018 11: 28
        0
        The coalition has its own ammunition and its throwing charge. Msta separate charging, Coalition modular. The range of the Coalition is greater.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 18 December 2018 11: 36
          0
          My young friend, a howitzer has separate loading and a charge of 1-2-3 .... and of course, for some kind of maximum goals there is a maximum charge. This is a guarantee of long barrel life.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 18 December 2018 11: 41
            0
            Tobish, you continue to assert that the Msta and the Coalition are unified in all ammunition?
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 18 December 2018 11: 50
              0
              Yes, plus new ones .... 70km is not so easy to reach ...
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 18 December 2018 13: 14
                +1
                That is all the salt. Msta cannot shoot new. And for their application, they make the Coalition B. So that more mobile installations could realize their full potential.
                1. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek 18 December 2018 13: 42
                  +1
                  A towed howitzer is less mobile.
                  1. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 18 December 2018 14: 34
                    0
                    A towed howitzer with military transport aircraft and heavy helicopters is more mobile both tactically and strategically.
                    Plus the price. In towed vehicles, it is significantly lower. Even considering the tractor.
                    1. Zaurbek
                      Zaurbek 18 December 2018 14: 34
                      0
                      American 155mm yes .... ours is not yet.
                      1. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 18 December 2018 14: 46
                        0
                        The American has a plus only in tactical maneuverability due to transportation by external helicopter suspension. I do not know what Russia has or is anticipated in this area. But in an aircraft transport aircraft, you can transport a towed gun much easier than a self-propelled gun. Prostots example with the long-suffering Syria. Suddenly you need to strengthen the grouping of 20 trunks of 152mm artillery. What is easier to transport urgently (by plane) with revenge or revenge b?
                      2. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 18 December 2018 14: 48
                        0
                        Let’s say Kamaz 8x8 with such a gun .... MTSTA-V comes complete with such a Kamaz .... or do the cannons themselves ride?
                      3. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 18 December 2018 15: 01
                        +1
                        Any tractor can carry a towed gun, from MTLB to civilians, just like any truck can carry shells. A self-propelled gun with a torn roller or a damaged transmission becomes a dead, non-transportable cargo. While the trailer is customized, while you are loading, the fighter will end.
                      4. Ross xnumx
                        Ross xnumx 19 December 2018 08: 32
                        -1
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        A self-propelled gun with a torn roller or a damaged transmission becomes a dead, non-transportable cargo.

                        And I think. for what reasons "Armata" is held back - they are afraid of torn off rollers and damaged transmissions ... belay
                        CUT !!! yes
                        It was this version of the ACS that was supposedly in demand. It is with such characteristics (possibly the best). Although this option after "freezing" the production of the T-14, in connection with the wide range of modernization of the T-72, looks quite logical.
                        Especially enthusiastic about modern weapons is its versatility, versatility, the use of an incredible number of ammunition options, and for technology - a type of fuel and lubricants.
                        You are going the right way, gentlemen! fellow
                      5. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 19 December 2018 09: 03
                        +1
                        There are almost no sense to many words. This is what you dear about. You can shout RaspIiil for any reason.
                      6. Red_Baron
                        Red_Baron 20 December 2018 19: 05
                        0
                        He screams constantly. This gentleman climbed here from the news section, where all only one slogan is shouting, and it’s wild, and ask about the specifics they can’t say anything.
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 18 December 2018 14: 49
                      +2
                      Quote: garri-lin
                      A towed howitzer with military transport aircraft and heavy helicopters is more mobile

                      Big mistake.
                      In fact it is not.

                      Quote: garri-lin
                      Plus the price. In towed vehicles, it is significantly lower. Even considering the tractor.

                      And this is also a fallacy. For example, the American M777 with two cars, a tractor and a vehicle for ammunition, is much more expensive than most self-propelled guns
                      1. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 18 December 2018 15: 07
                        0
                        Three axes is expensive in itself. The tool is certainly good but more like a perversion on a given topic. Not hammering nails with a microscope, but rather a hammer with a telescopic sight.
                        And what about transportation can be more detailed? Why misleading?
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 18 December 2018 15: 16
                        +2
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        Three axes is expensive in itself.

                        In order to try to increase the very tactical mobility that you wrote about.

                        Quote: garri-lin
                        And what about transportation can be more detailed? Why misleading?

                        Think for yourself. For the full-fledged movement of the firing units by helicopters, it is necessary either to transfer the guns together with tractors and vehicles for ammunition, which at the moment could only be realized in a 105-mm caliber. Or give each 6 gun battery at least 12 helicopters, which will be constantly in the air or on the waiting area near the firing position. Which is very, very curly even for Americans.
                      3. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 18 December 2018 15: 33
                        0
                        I did not write about such mobility. Not helicopters. Transfer from one theater to another aircraft. Strengthen the defense or prepare for the offensive. Or do you think that the time of towed artillery has irrevocably passed?
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 18 December 2018 15: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        I did not write about such mobility. Not helicopters. Transfer from one theater to another aircraft.

                        Especially. Or five "Hercules" for transporting two howitzers with two tractors and two vehicles for ammunition, or three "Hercules" for transporting two Slovak howitzers on an Eva truck chassis and one vehicle for ammunition. In this case, the transported BC will be the same
                      5. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 18 December 2018 16: 06
                        0
                        And again, you are talking about the American approach. And if not Hercules and not Eve, but Msta s and Msta b and il 76. The representatives closest to the Coalition.
                      6. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 18 December 2018 18: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        And if not Hercules and not Eve but Msta s and Msta b and il 76

                        And in our Airborne Forces, there are more of them than the Americans. And they don't have "Msta" in any form. Now D-30 and "Nona-S", soon something else will appear.

                        And for NE we have roads, highways and railways.
                      7. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 18 December 2018 19: 08
                        0
                        D 30 and Nona! This is a smaller caliber. SW Shovels, I am amazed you became an enemy of towed artillery? It seems your position was always that you need to have everything, or I just made the wrong conclusions from your comments.
                      8. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 19 December 2018 19: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        For the full-fledged movement of the firing units by helicopters, it is necessary either to transfer the guns together with tractors and vehicles for ammunition, which at the moment could only be realized in a 105-mm caliber. Or give each 6 gun battery at least 12 helicopters, which will be constantly in the air or on the waiting area near the firing position. Which is very, very curly even for Americans.

                        Or, from time to time, move the battery by helicopters from one previously prepared position to another, delivering there only the control units themselves, their ammunition and communication and control machines. Without tractors and rear. And then carry only ammunition to this artillery base with helicopters. This is the only option in which a towed AC is more advantageous than an ACS.
                        But such semi-stationary placement is only possible in anti-zest wars. In any other, this artillery base will be rolled out after the first volley.

                        In all other applications, towed artillery really loses to self-propelled - both in tactical and strategic mobility. And most importantly, the towed guns lose in terms of coagulation and withdrawal from positions, which is extremely critical if the enemy has at least some of his artillery and AIR.
                2. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I 18 December 2018 14: 54
                  0
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  Msta cannot shoot new. And for their application, they make the Coalition B. So that more mobile installations could realize their full potential.

                  Yes, your "mobile installation" with a shortened barrel, like other "coalition gadgets", does not "realize its full potential"! Because they are designed for "self-propelled"! "Pull the gun out of the self-propelled gun and .... what? Magic spells? Have you forgotten the testament-warning of our ancestors that: “You cannot cross a horse and a quivering doe?” ..
                  1. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 18 December 2018 15: 12
                    0
                    About a shortened trunk, I hope this is a rumor. And evolution has not been canceled by evolution. Each subsequent member of the family is slightly better than the previous one.
                3. pogis
                  pogis 18 December 2018 18: 27
                  0
                  Mobile? But how is Karl?
              2. pogis
                pogis 18 December 2018 18: 24
                0
                And to get ......
          2. pogis
            pogis 18 December 2018 17: 51
            0
            Yes sir! In peacetime, they always shoot in the US. For that after firing in the dark you will see a small nuclear explosion!
    2. pogis
      pogis 18 December 2018 18: 14
      0
      Maybe you should have started with tanks and helicopters, and the Air Force?
  6. moreman78
    moreman78 18 December 2018 12: 14
    +2
    Standard CUT, all the way!
  7. pogis
    pogis 18 December 2018 18: 40
    0
    Quote: Zaurbek
    A towed howitzer is less mobile.

    It’s generally conditional mobile, not for nothing that flowers bloomed in violent colors in 70-80x! But, the appearance of 2-36 is still not clear to me!
  8. Viknt
    Viknt 18 December 2018 20: 02
    +1
    It seems to me that a self-propelled gun on a tank chassis, a self-propelled gun on a wheel base, towed and landing howitzers are still different systems. As far as I know, the American 777 is lightened by titanium, and apparently, in my opinion, relatively short barrel. I believe that the maximum range is not necessary for the landing variant. It is impossible to imagine what the towed version will look like from the article. It is not clear what prevents to put the coalition tower on wheels and attach it to the tractor. I don't even want to think about manual loading. Arguments about the unacceptability of a self-propelled wheeled vehicle due to the possibility of damage to one roller are wretched. If it arrives, it doesn't matter which chassis. It can be assumed that such weapons are not intended for the first line, but are placed somewhere in the rear, at a sufficient distance from the front line, in engineering positions. Wheeled in any condition can be dragged off. This is not a problem for motorists. As well as weld the wheels in place. The conversation without any specifics is striking. Any weapon has performance characteristics. Towed systems have speed limits; for self-propelled vehicles, it seems to be much higher. Self-propelled vehicles have higher automation, less calculation, and other pleasant "little things". The experience of Syria must be correctly understood. This is a war with limited combat-ready, semi-professional formations. This is rather an example of how not to fight. The West will not fight like this with us.
  9. LeonidL
    LeonidL 19 December 2018 05: 06
    +1
    The entire experience of recent wars shows that self-propelled artillery in all respects exceeds towed, the latter survives its only in local conflicts of low intensity, and even there, it is often simply thrown at the next drape, as it was in Palmyra.
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 19 December 2018 13: 24
      +1
      Just a self-propelled gun for low-intensity conflicts and limited wars. Self-propelled guns cannot win a major war of attrition. There are not enough resources.
      1. LeonidL
        LeonidL 20 December 2018 03: 49
        0
        Yes, really, "the big war cannot be won by self-propelled guns", but the tractors do not have a resource? Don't they need fuel? Can the horses be adjusted again? Tractors with "Coalitions" on a trailer can keep up with tanks and infantry fighting vehicles with armored personnel carriers on the off-road? You, a citizen, apparently play the war on the computer?
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 20 December 2018 19: 11
          0
          Need will make us reach the horses. Refuse from such a simple and reliable thing as towed artillery is not necessary. This respected computer is easy for you to repair at minus 20 transmission on a self-propelled, by pressing keys. But in the field it is sometimes easier to recycle the fluff to any other tractor and catch the position.
          1. LeonidL
            LeonidL 21 December 2018 01: 32
            +2
            Respected! Don't anger God! Do not bring the matter to the horses pulling the "Coalition" at minus 20, especially since, unlike you, my dear, I learned all this in practice in the ZabVO back in the 70s at -46 with a breeze, at field exercises in winter on Manzhurka yes near the Chinese border, when the engines were heated with blowtorches, which I and other officers always brought from business trips and vacations. But even then, your computer one, you didn't think about horse tails. But the war was very, very difficult, alarming.
  10. Е2 - Е4
    Е2 - Е4 19 December 2018 15: 33
    0
    The great news is that not a day is so new weapon models. The military-industrial complex works, it pleases, we can sleep peacefully.
  11. Lexa-149
    Lexa-149 19 December 2018 17: 15
    0
    No matter what, the towed artillery is quite a suitable option. Firstly, the cost is lower. Secondly, preparing a calculation for it will be much faster. Thirdly, if the self-propelled guns broke the chassis, then, consider, the whole self-propelled guns broke. In towed artillery, everything is simpler: the tractor broke down - he hitched the gun to another car and drove on ...
    1. LeonidL
      LeonidL 20 December 2018 03: 52
      0
      The second tractor broke down, the coalition to the third ... then, probably, to the Niva or Porsche, then to the horse ... then with the shoulder ... Why do you think that the self-propelled gun is worse than the traveling tractor and that the tractor is unmeasured? Especially for heavy systems like the Coalition?
      1. Lexa-149
        Lexa-149 20 December 2018 13: 53
        0
        She's no worse. It is different and inextricably linked with the artillery piece. With towed artillery, this is not: Ural, KamAZ, KrAZ, MAZ, MTLB, tractor ....
      2. garri-lin
        garri-lin 20 December 2018 19: 05
        0
        A towed gun can pull a tank or an armored infantry fighting vehicle. But a self-propelled gun with a dead suspension is extremely difficult to pull. And do not say that the tank is needed elsewhere, in his previous battle the tower flew off, the repairmen tried and the tractor was ready. (sarcasm if that). Just the same I saw the war in person. I saw how the cannons pulled the guns onto the ledges on the mountain ledges. Videltanki with three rollers on board, restored during the night. And crawl, shoot. Votsna is a mess. And in a mess, the simpler the better. In a mess it’s good when everything can be carried away on your hands. This gives a chance in a hopeless situation.
        1. LeonidL
          LeonidL 21 December 2018 02: 34
          +2
          Are you naive or for some other reason quite going to fight, my dear? But the country's leadership wants to have such systems in service in order to discourage a potential enemy from fighting. If you restore heavy artillery on fart, then such an army will easily be considered easy prey. And yet, seriously, the towed artillery never keeps up with the tanks and as a result, the tank troops are left without it, which is fraught. Than? Look for answers in the history of the Second World War. During the Zapad 82 (?) Exercise in Ukraine, I watched with sadness how the tanks went ahead, but everything else, raised by mobilization and being pulled, got stuck or collapsed even in the greenhouse conditions of the training ground - everything from mortars on shishish traction, air defense in the form of ZPU-4 and ZU-23-2, 122-mm howitzers, and the first village was the equipment mobilized from the national economy. By the way, in that cropped guards tank division where I was an observer, all the more or less modern equipment from the boxes could not get out ... for various reasons. Even ZSU-57-2, Shilki ... Everything was taken apart and brought to complete collapse. Underestimated deficits, for example, for GAZ-66, the assigned staff let go home pulled from their native enterprises - distributors, mirrors, pipes, batteries, charging stations even! The disgrace turned out to be a hefty one ... they put mechs from 54 and 55 on the new tanks, no matter how hard it was ... they drove the testers from the Malyshev plant. The plant stood while they were driving for ostentation - they jumped over scarps and drove off-road ... it was February-March. Back, all this army completely scored all the lanes of the Simferopol-Moscow highway, perlo home losing slabs from mortars ... How no one ditched my mind I can't imagine.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 21 December 2018 10: 14
            -1
            And why this historical digression? This is not even another era; it is almost a parallel universe. Plus extra evidence that the army is a mess. Was, is and will be. But the enemy, he is such, he always tries to find slack, and finds. Therefore, one must be prepared for everything. And I’m frankly glad that in parallel with the self-propelled variants of the Co-operation, the towed version was also concerned.
  12. Viknt
    Viknt 22 December 2018 00: 28
    +2
    It seems to me that comrades misunderstand where and what time we live. For example, Su-57 and I-16, Armata and a towed gun. In the 21st century, we are not rich enough to buy cheap things! Now it’s not 41 years old and we don’t have 27 million dead then. And nobody will give time to harness, to harness. And the current fat dystrophics are not able to bring shells. Etc.
    If someone saw enough of ISIS being shot in Syria, I dare to assure you that if something happened to us, it’s not us, but they will shoot us like that. And you can’t squat behind the shield.
  13. Newone
    Newone 16 January 2019 02: 10
    0
    How did the author get that the speed of leaving the position of the towed gun will be significantly lower than that of the self-propelled gun?
    Here is the reservation; separate crew compartments may indeed be redundant. What can get on this machine at a range of its work of such power that if it gets, even tank armor will not help.
    But reducing the weight of the installation is very important. At 48 tons you can drive along a dirt road. But - once.
  14. Fevralsk. Morev
    Fevralsk. Morev 1 March 2019 05: 06
    -1
    Towed kaolitsiya? For what ? Well, as it is now fashionable, on a wheeled chassis. Most likely, there is NO MONEY or they cannot produce products due to degradation of production.