NPO Energomash talked about the development of engines for superheavy rockets

Information was published about the meeting of Igor Arbuzov, General Director of NPO Energomash with the design bureau staff. During the meeting, issues of both projects for the domestic market and prospects for interaction with foreign partners were discussed. In particular, the question was raised about China’s interest in cooperation in the field of rocket engine building.

From the material:

According to the results of participation in the International Aviation and Space Exhibition in Zhuhai, NPO Energomash and the 6-I Academy of the Chinese Space Corporation of Science and Technology signed a protocol defining work between companies in the development and production of liquid propellant rocket engines on oxygen-kerosene , oxygen-hydrogen and oxygen-methane.

It is noted that the Chinese are interested in joint expertise on the design documentation for the 480-ton power plant for launch vehicles of the super heavy class. Igor Arbuzov noted that NPO Energomash is ready to participate in this kind of cooperation so that in the end it does not threaten the interests of the NGO itself or the interests of the country as a whole.

Underline the positive experience of interaction with partners from the United States. We are talking about the supply of engines RD-180 and RD-181 for American needs. Igor Arbuzov noted that Roskosmos ordered the launch of an analysis of options for using RD-180 in Russian launch vehicles.

The general director of NPO Energomash reported that serious attention is being paid to the creation of the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle and the subsequent creation of a super heavy-class LV. So, the design documentation for the RD-171MV engine layouts for the promising RN was released. The engine for the first tests of the Soyuz-5 LV will be delivered in the 2021 year.

This is a 4-chamber liquid oxygen-kerosene engine. This is an upgrade of the RD-171М, which for the first time for Energomash is based not on paper drawings, but on digital 3D models.

The RD-171M engine was used for Zenit-3SL launch vehicles. Traction - 740 ts (earth), hollow traction - 806 ts, "dry" weight - 9,3 t. Pressure in the combustion chamber - 250 kgf / sq. Cm.

Comments

[aszzz888]

In particular, the question was raised about China's interest in cooperation in the field of rocket engine manufacturing.

... China is interested in EVERYTHING, especially in the military-industrial complex ...

[Evdokim]

Quote: aszzz888

... China is interested in EVERYTHING, especially in the military-industrial complex ...

NPO Energomash is ready to participate in this kind of cooperation so that it ultimately does not threaten the interests of the NGO itself or the interests of the country as a whole.

And then they’ll buy it, and let's copy.

[41 REGION]

And then they’ll buy it, and let's copy. hi

The USA is not copying RD-180 so far

[svp67]

Quote: 41 REGION

The USA is not copying RD-180 so far

And why should they, another technology, their own engineering school. Unlike China, which has a lot in common with us

[41 REGION]

They are from the middle of 90 trying to copy ours, until it turned out think their engineering school will quickly create their according to their statements, they should create their own by the end of 2019, we’ll see, but from the mid-90s this will agree

[svp67]

Quote: 41 REGION

think their engineering school will quickly create their

Yes, not fast but creates. It’s not worth it to keep them absolutely mediocre.

Quote: 41 REGION

according to their statements, they should create their own by the end of 2019, we’ll see, but from the mid-90s this will agree

Listen, they know how to count money very well, and while it was profitable for them to use ours, they used it as soon as it stopped satisfying them, so they immediately accelerated work on these engines. Well, I don’t doubt their capabilities. They will make them, the main thing here is that we can do our own thing.

[41 REGION]

Quote: svp67

Listen

I'm kinda not deaf yet say ..........
At one time, they together with engines received technical documentation I also have no doubt that with the availability of technical documentation, sooner or later they will do Question when

[Blackmokona]

It is a myth that they do not have their own engines.
Delta-4, Delta-Heavy, Falcon-9, Falcon-Heavy, Minotaur, Taurus, Pegasus fly their engines.

[Berg berg]

And who told you that they are theirs, is it clear from the names or are you allowed into their missile centers? And to change the whole name for your amer’s style is already in the blood!

[Henderson]

It can be seen from the names and numerous photos and videos. But you can try to tell what kind of Russian engine is on the Falcon-9 or Delta-4

[Berg berg]

I can, but it's secret. As the "great and terrible helmsman Gutroshenko" says. Right now I am waving "photos" in front of your eyes and they are all Russian and they have a name - beginners1,2,3, ...!

[Henderson]

Well, just a classic of the genre. Everything is secret.

[100502]

Quote: Berg Berg

And who told you that they are theirs, is it clear from the names or are you allowed into their missile centers? And to change the whole name for your amer’s style is already in the blood!

What nonsense are you talking about ...

[Simargl]

Quote: 41 REGION

They have been trying to copy our

They don’t try, but just tried and spat on it! They have their own developments - no worse than ours (though more expensive - they steal a little less and pay more).

[For example]

Quote: Simargl

True, more expensive - they steal a little less and salaries are higher

And drank cocacola there? Just beautiful. Did you eat hamburgers? Unification.
And how old are you seven or six?

[Simargl]

Quote: For example

And how old are you seven or six?

Guessed it! 6x7.
Essentially have something to say against?

[Henderson]

Quote: Simargl

True, more expensive - they steal a little less and salaries are higher

Merlin engine is much cheaper than the RD-180.

[Simargl]

Quote: Henderson

Merlin engine is much cheaper than the RD-180.

Moreover! It is one and a half times cheaper per unit of thrust and two times - in terms of energy availability, i.e. in efficiency, it is more than twice as high (in terms of investing money), even without taking into account reusability.

[nik49]

In the late 50s, the Americans decommissioned the Atlas-5 strategic missile, but did not dispose of it, but used it to launch military satellites. In the mid-90s, it became necessary to increase the throw weight of satellites, i.e. a more powerful engine was needed. A design tender was announced in which our firms from Samara and Khimki also participated / NPO ENERGOMASH /. Energomash won the tender because they offered an attractive price and time. Taking RD-170 / Buranny project as a basis / they "stupidly sawed" it into two equal parts. Energomash, having conducted fire tests and adapted the engine to the Atlas, received payment and handed over ALL the documentation and the engine itself. Proceeding from general commercial interests, an agreement was drawn up on placing an order with the Americans on Energomash for the manufacture and supply of American engines. Once, one of the high-handed drivers mentioned the use of the RD-180 for our purposes. The residents of Khimki explained in a popular way. whose engine is it. It should be added - RD-180 they need ONLY for Atlas

[kjhg]

Quote: 41 REGION

The USA is not copying RD-180 so far

You are mistaken, in the USA they started testing the analog of our RD-180 engine last year. It is planned that they will no longer be purchased from us.

[Berg berg]

To say is not to do! They talked a lot about the moon, and right now they are afraid to fly there because of radiation, and all their moon astronauts lived up to 90 years and nothing. Radiation to them like fluorography!

[Simargl]

Quote: 41 REGION

The USA is not copying RD-180 so far

They have their own. Not in the know about this?
And the best in specific impulse (hydrogen) is also with them.
And wedge air too they saw with variable activity and while slurred success.
So there is nothing to discount them!

[lopvlad]

Quote: 41 REGION

The USA is not copying RD-180 so far

all the more so, he acquired the engines and documentation. But despite this, the iron production could not be arranged like that.

[g1washntwn]

They won’t buy anything. Why buy hardware when they have almost all of the documentation to copy? Participated in a joint examination - received copies. A curtain. Applause.

[lopvlad]

Quote: g1washntwn

Why buy hardware when they have almost all of the documentation to copy?

the problem is that the Chinese have what the Americans have in order to produce analogues they need production technology (the chemical composition of the metal and its production technology) and the documentation is simple drawings that you can stupidly disassemble the engine without any cooperation. But nobody will sell the production technology to them, since entire research institutes worked on its development, sometimes for half a century.
Now, in fact, there are only two countries in the world that have all the basic technologies and branches of fundamental science: Russia and the USA.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Evdokim

And then they’ll buy it, and let's copy.

China is not a country. China is a huge dot matrix printer.

[aszzz888]

Zoldat_A (Alexei, Russian soldier) Yesterday, 18: 23
0
Quote: Evdokim
And then they’ll buy it, and let's copy.

China is not a country. China - a huge dot matrix printer.

... ...

[41 REGION]

Quote: aszzz888

China is interested in EVERYTHING, especially in the military-industrial complex ...

China, as usual, wants to copy, then release it itself better let them buy finished products

[17085]

On the other hand, there is the main cost, these are gray-green "Mandebushki" in the corners, the rest is tedious twisting of nuts. Let the Chinese twist them, but "Mandebushki" are not expensive, in packs of 5, we will sell.

[Hypersound]

You can’t sell engines to pndos

[svp67]

Quote: Hypersound

You can’t sell engines to pndos

So already ...

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Hypersound

You can’t sell engines to pndos

So already ...

One Herrr will not be able to copy. Either three times more expensive, or three times worse. If AK-47 can’t copy for so many years, what can we say about rocket engines?

[Е2 - Е4]

I agree that there AK 47 they can’t do automatic loading on tanks !!! Until now, the US and the West use blacks !!!

[Black sniper]

why amers can’t ??? This is money and not small, salaries for workers and so on ...

[Hypersound]

From non-sale we can cause them much more damage than from the proceeds of those pennies. Actually, pndosy are our enemies. Wake up or something

[Simargl]

Quote: Hypersound

From non-sale, we can do much more damage to them than from the proceeds of those pennies.

But as? On our engines, 15% of all starts.

[Hypersound]

15% is already good

[Simargl]

This is not even a reason to think about the need for diversification: they will easily survive the absence.

[engineer74]

We can’t even launch a launch vehicle without foreign partners! LIVE!

[Black sniper]

And here we can not ??? This is a joint project, if it is financially / scientifically beneficial, why not.

[engineer74]

Again it will be: "Our brains - your money, the" investor "will receive the main buns!" In the case of China, this is fraught with unpleasant consequences. IMHO, in this case it is more profitable to sell the product, and not the technology of its production. Those. "for your money, let's run anything anywhere." We don't have enough mattresses in this market, so let's get China there?

[svp67]

The general director of NPO Energomash said that serious attention is being paid to the creation of the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle and the subsequent creation of super-heavy rockets.

"Heavy", as I understand it, is not "Angara", but why then is the East being built?

[Avior]

and then someone will drill a hole in them .....

[ODERVIT]

Colleagues, good luck in implementing the tasks. I am sure of success.

[Snail N9]

So, released design documentation on layouts engine RD-171MV

Cooooo .....

[Alexex]

Creating technology together is cheaper of course ... then you need to correctly use this technology ... The Chinese definitely use it correctly, about Russia ... Gogol is still right.

[ruigat]

Well, now the PRC will get access to the technology of heavy-duty taxiways and Roscosmos, which is already kicking the swindler Mask will stay ....., but nothing will remain to Roscosmos, well, probably only nanobutts.

[Hole puncher]

They do not see the global trend. The biggest demand will be for the delivery of cubesat, for this you need a light and cheap rocket like Electron. Rockettab for delivery (the other day) 13 cubsat per 500 km. takes just 6,9 million US dollars. We are able to create a solid fuel light rocket, at least, but this direction does not develop, no one looks further than the Dnieper, and they will soon end.

[T-34]

That is, with a digital 3D model you can immediately print the engine on a 3D printer, shto?

[Е2 - Е4]

Russia and China are strategic allies, well, at least we say that ... Therefore, we are doing everything right, we think that we are 5 moves ahead.

[100502]

Quote: Black Sniper

And here we can not ??? This is a joint project, if it is financially / scientifically beneficial, why not.

It will be beneficial only to uncle at the helm.