Military Review

Armored lightning. Cruiser II rank Novik. Fight 27 January 1904

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The pre-war period of service of the Novik cruiser was not marked by any extraordinary events. Having completed a full course of testing, Novik 18 of May 1902 arrived in Kronstadt, and in the morning of September 14 went to the Far East. For these 4 months spent on the Baltic, the cruiser twice participated in the celebrations on the Neva (the launch of the "Eagle" and "Prince Suvorov"), was honored by the attention of the crowned persons — the Emperor Nicholas II and the Greek Queen Olga went on board. and brother, was subjected to all sorts of tests and went through the car before going.


The march itself was also not replete with something outstanding, no one drove the horses, it would probably be more correct to say that the cruiser did not go to the Far East, but to the Mediterranean Sea, where he stayed fairly long time, and only then moved to Port Arthur. Coming out of Kronstadt on September 14, Novik passed the Kiel Canal only a week later, and then visited many places: Cadiz, Algeria, Naples, Piraeus, then went to Poros, where only 19 arrived in November 1902. There the cruiser was engaged in combat training, as well as waiting for a new commander, Nikolai Otovich von Essen, on whose arrival he returned to Piraeus 5 in December of the same year. And only after the newly made commander introduced himself to the Greek queen Olga, December 11 1902, N.O. von Essen took the ship to sea, sending it to Port Said - from that moment, in fact, the transition to the Far East began, and, by an interesting coincidence, the day of release coincided with the birthday of the new commander Novik.


"Novik" at the wall of the Baltic plant


It is interesting to compare the transition to the Far East of the cruiser "Novik" with a similar campaign of the armored cruiser "Varyag", which took place just a year before: the latter left Piraeus on December 6, 1901, "Novik" arrived in Port Arthur on April 2, 1903, " Varyag "- February 25, 1902, thus the passage of" Novik "took 112 days, and" Varyag "- 111 days. Of course, it is impossible to compare the capabilities of the ships based on the above figures - they were not given the task of arriving in Port Arthur as quickly as possible, and moreover, they were given various tasks that had to be completed along the way. So, "Varyag" made a "cruise" to many ports of the Persian Gulf in order to demonstrate the flag, as well as call in Nagasaki, which, of course, prolonged his trip. The same thing happened with the "Novik" - so, for example, having come to Aden, the cruiser was engaged in inspection and description of the bays nearby to this port, and earlier, in Djibouti, he stayed for participation in official events. But if the descriptions of the "Varyag" campaign abound with the enumeration of numerous repairs of its power plant, then nothing of the kind is said about the "Novik". The delays of the Novik were usually of a different nature: for example, the ship arrived in Manila on March 9, 1903, and left it 6 days later, on March 15, but all this time Novik was engaged in combat training. The cruiser stayed in Djibouti for 2 weeks, but this was due not only to political necessity and officialdom, but also to the fact that N.O. von Essen did not want to leave his officer, who became very ill (blood was running in his throat) until he was sent to Europe on the first steamer that was going there.

At the same time, the technical condition of the Varyag and Novik by the time when these ships arrived at Port Arthur differed radically. Attempting to give full speed to the “Varyag” when moving from Nagasaki to Arthur led to the fact that the machines pounded on 20,5 nodes and the speed had to be reduced to 10 nodes. Three days after arriving at Arthur, Varyag again went to sea, conducted training shooting, tried to develop full speed again: knocking and heating of bearings, breaks of several tubes, and the speed did not exceed 20 nodes. The result was the withdrawal of the ship to an armed reserve and serious repairs - alas, only the first in their infinite series in Port Arthur.

But with “Novik” everything was completely different: after 11 days after joining Arthur, he went to the dimensional mile to destroy the deviation, April 22 left with the squadron in the Far and there, the next day, performed progressive tests, during which speed The cruiser was brought to 23,6 nodes. It seems to be against the background speed in 25,08 knots. this result does not look at all, but one should not forget that Novik showed its 25 ties in a displacement close to normal, while at testing in Port Arthur he went full load or close to it. During the acceptance tests, the Germans loaded the cruiser so that the Novik even got a little trim on the stern: sludge stern was 4,73 m, the stem was 4,65 m. But in everyday operation, he had a larger displacement and sat with his nose. So, during the transition to the Far East, its sediment fluctuated: astern 4,8-4,9 m, with its nose - 5-5,15 m, and in the war period the sediment reached 4,95 and 5,3 m, respectively.

Thus, we can say that the decrease in the speed of the ship was largely (but unfortunately unknown to what extent) the increase in displacement and trim affected the nose, but the mechanisms seemed to be in perfect order. The author is not aware of any complaints about them during this period of time, and subsequent events speak for themselves. On September 23, the cruiser conducted progressive tests for full speed, then - trained with a squadron, after which, together with Askold, he went to Vladivostok, demonstrating the Russian flag in Mazanpo along the way. 16-17 May “Novik” is driven by Adjutant General A.N. Kuropatkina in Posyet Bay, 26 May left with “Askold” in Shimonoseki, then - in Kobe, 12-13 May - in Nagasaki, after which he returned to Port Arthur. In other words, the cruiser immediately took an active part in the life of the Pacific Ocean Squadron, serving with it exactly as it was planned during its construction.

Perhaps the only drawback of the design was the vibration of the case, which occurs on the middle course, apparently somewhere between the 16 and 18 nodes. But it was easy to fight it - it was necessary to go either faster or slower than a certain critical interval, which could cause certain inconveniences, but on the whole it was not critical.

Completing the comparison of the technical condition of the Novik with the Varyag cruiser, it is necessary to note such anecdote. As is known, the disputes about whether the Varyag steering gears were killed during the battle of Chemulpo do not subside to this very day - we made the assumption that they were not killed, or the steering drives themselves (the Japanese, after inspecting the cruiser after the ascent, they were told that everything was fine with them), and the drives leading from the steering column in the conning tower to the central post. Such damage (contact contacts, for example), in our opinion, could well have happened as a result of a close rupture of a heavy projectile.

Well, “Novik” didn’t need any enemy projectile - during one of the training firing performed by him during the transition to the Far East, shots of the nose gun deployed at 125 hail. in the stern, led to the fact that the wires of the electric drive of the steering wheel passed in the armored pipe ... broke. Subsequently, this malfunction was corrected by the crew: unfortunately, there is no information about how long it took.

Another technical nuisance occurred with the 24 September 1903 cruiser in Port Arthur, when, under the impact of stormy weather, the Novik, anchored, leaned its nose on the stern of Amur transport mine. However, the damage turned out to be so small that they were corrected by ship’s means, so that on September 25 the ship made the transition to the Taleen Raid, and on September 26-28 “ran off” to Chemulpo to see if there were Japanese ships there.


Novik in the Far East


In general, it can be stated that upon arrival in the Far East, "Novik" in its technical condition was quite combat-ready. His combat training, thanks N.O. von Essen, who trained the crew fairly intensively during the transition to Port Arthur, was at an acceptable level, which, of course, only grew during further joint maneuvers with the ships of the squadron. Of course, early termination of combat training in connection with the review of the Vicar and the armed reserve that followed him had a negative effect on the cruiser’s combat capability. But there is not the slightest reason to believe that by the time the Russian-Japanese war began, the Novik’s combat training was at least inferior to the squadron of other ships.

The beginning of the war - a mine attack on the night of January 27 1904.

Being a high-speed cruiser of the 2 rank, the Novik could play a significant role in repelling the mine attack that took place on the night of January 27, but for objective reasons could not do it. As you know, the squadron officers and Vice-Admiral O.V. Stark diligently convinced that war was not foreseen in the near future, preventive measures were taken only partially. "Novik" was located, perhaps, in the most unsuccessful place to repel an attack: it was anchored almost at the entrance from the outer raid to the inner one. Thus, the cruiser actually turned out to be fenced off from the attacking Japanese destroyers by almost all the ships of the squadron: as a result, many did not even hear the start of firing on the Novik. In his memoirs, Lieutenant A.P. Shter, who was on watch at this time, describes the events of this night as follows:

“January 26 I was on watch from 12 to 4 at night hours; at the first shot, I ordered the drummer near me to punch through the alarm, just in case, the commander and the officers ran upstairs in bewilderment, not understanding why I thought of making noise at night. Hearing the shots, the commander ordered to separate the pairs, so when the squadron commander gave us the signal, the couples were ready and we lifted the anchor to pursue the enemy, but he was already gone.


Perhaps, in fact, with the couples everything was a little different: of course N.O. von Essen immediately ordered their breeding immediately, as it became clear that the squadron had been attacked, and, obviously, the cruiser began this right after 23.45 on January 26, when the "wake-up" took place. But they managed to breed pairs in six boilers only in 01.05, that is, a little more than an hour later, and by this time Vice-Admiral O.V. Stark has already given two signals to the Novik. The first of them was raised on the flagship battleship at 00.10, the commander ordered the pair to be bred, the second - on 00.35: “Breed the pair more quickly, get off the anchor and pursue the enemy destroyers”. As we see, Novik was able to fulfill this instruction only after half an hour. Of course, this was much faster than if the Novik had not started to dilute the vapors right away, but they were waiting for the orders of the commander, but by the time the order was received, the cruiser could not give way. However, it was Novik that first went in pursuit of the enemy.

Nevertheless, the cruiser made a move in 01.05, and already after 20 minutes, the 4 Japanese destroyer was seen on it. Novik had no chances to catch up with them, because not all the boilers were able to be raised in all boilers, but still N.O. von Essen pursued them, hoping that one of the destroyers was hit during the attack and could not develop full speed. One by one, 5 boilers were put into operation on the cruiser, including the 01.25 - 2 boilers and the remaining three in 02.00, but still in 02.35, after an hour of chase, the Japanese destroyers broke away from Novik. There was no sense to pursue them anymore, and von Essen turned back to the squadron, to which he returned to 03.35, without causing any damage to the enemy and not undergoing it himself - only two of the boilers, from their urgent dilution, the gauge glasses were burst. In 05.45, Victory and Diana re-opened fire, believing that they had been subjected to another attack by the destroyers, but by this time the Japanese had already left. Nevertheless, Novik again went to sea and, without finding anyone there, returned to 06.28 back to the external raid.

27 January Fight 1904

The general course of this battle is described by us in the article. "The battle of 27 January 1904 r at Port Arthur: the battle of lost opportunities", and we will not repeat, except, perhaps, only some nuances. The first to enter the Russian squadron was the 3 th combat detachment — Rear Admiral Deva's cruiser, whose task was to reconnoiter and assess the damage that the Russian squadron received during the night mine attack. In addition, with luck, the Chitose, the Kasagi, the Takasago and the Yosino had to carry the Russian ships south of Encounter Rock, so that the main forces of X. Togo could cut them off from Port Arthur and destroy .

What happened next is not entirely clear, there is evidence that after the Japanese were spotted on Russian ships, they raised a signal on the flagship "Cruisers to attack the enemy", but perhaps this was not the case. It is also possible that from Novik they asked for the permission of the squadron commander to attack the enemy, but this, again, is not certain. It is only known that Bayan and Askold went to the Deva cruiser, but after a quarter of an hour they were recalled - Vice-Admiral O.V. Stark decided to go in pursuit of them throughout the squadron.
On 08.15 in the morning, Novik made a move and followed the Japanese, while on the right side of the flagship Petropavlovsk - the chase lasted an hour, then the squadron turned back and anchored in 10.00 again. In this case, OV Stark left the cruisers, including the "Novik" during the squadron, sending one Boyarin to reconnoitre, who discovered the main forces of the enemy.


Armored cruiser "Boyar"


In 10.50, the flagship ordered the cruisers of the 1 rank to go to the aid of "Boyarin" by a signal, they sent a semaphore to "Novik": "Go to reinforcements to" Boyarin ", not to leave the fortress area of ​​operations. Just at this time, the forces of the Japanese were quite clearly visible: on Novik they were identified as 6 squadron battleships, 6 armored cruisers and 4 X-level armored cruisers of the 2 class. There was a mistake in the observations of our sailors - there were only 5 armored cruisers, since the Asama was at that time in Chemulpo.

Further sources usually contain a description of the approach of Novik to Mikasa, but we will stop in order to draw the attention of dear readers to one interesting nuance, which is often overlooked. The fact is that at the time of the appearance of the main Japanese forces, Vice-Admiral O.V. Stark was absent from the squadron, since EI Alekseev. Orders were handed over to cruisers on the initiative of the commander of the battleship Petropavlovsk, A.A. Aberhard, who also ordered the entire squadron to anchor. It was quite clear that, remaining at anchor, the squadron could be subjected to a monstrous defeat, so that AA Ebergard decided to act at his own risk and led the ships into battle, although he had no right to do so. The fact is that according to the statute, the flag-captain in the absence of the admiral could take command of the squadron, but only in peacetime, and the 27 January 1904 battle, obviously, was not. In battle, the same command should have taken the junior flagship, but only if the squadron commander was wounded or killed, and OV Stark was alive and perfectly healthy. As a result, it turned out that the enemy was approaching, and none of the officers on it had the right to command the squadron. Obviously, the situation in which the admiral during the battle would be somewhere else, and not on the ships of the squadron entrusted to him, the drafters of the navy charter was considered an oxymoron and they did not regulate it.

So, on Novik (as, indeed, on Bayan with Askold), the mood of the commanders was such that they carried out the order, which, strictly speaking, was insignificant for them, since the commander of Petropavlovsk had no right give it to them. But then it was even more interesting - it is clear that E.I. Alekseev could not allow the squadron to lead the captain of 1 rank into battle, so he ordered to stop shooting from the anchor until O. V. Stark returned to his flagship. Accordingly, at Petropavlovsk, they were forced to lift in 11.10, “Armadillos suddenly anchor everyone suddenly canceled” and after another 2 minutes: “Stay in place.”

The last order apparently extended to the squadron cruisers, but here the captains of the 1 rank Grammatchikov (Askold), Viren (Bayan) and von Essen (Novik) once again struck the ailment. Twenty minutes ago, they suddenly lost their memory so much that they completely forgot the statute and rushed into battle, following the order of a man who had no right to give it. Now all three were struck by blindness just as suddenly, so that none of them saw the signal that canceled the attack.

The Novik went straight to the Mikasa - on the one hand, such a jerk of a small cruiser, not intended for squadron combat at all, looks like a pure suicide, but von Essen had every reason to do just that. Realizing that the squadron needs time to wait for the return of the commander, get off the anchor and line up in battle order, all that Nikolai Ottovich could do was to try and distract the Japanese. Of course, Novik’s booking did not at all protect Japanese shells from heavy 203-305-mm, and 152-mm could do things, but von Essen relied on speed and maneuver. In his report, he described his tactics as follows:

“Turning to the right and turning the 135 (22 of the knot), I went to the enemy's head ship (Mikasa), bearing in mind that thanks to this movement the cruiser is the smallest target for the enemy, the speed of movement of the target makes it difficult to shoot; besides, being on the right flank of my squadron, I did not interfere with her shooting from the anchor and maneuvering. ”


Novik went straight to Mikasu, and got close to her on the 17 cable, then turned and, breaking the distance from the 27 cable, turned back to the Japanese flagship. At that time, intensive fire was fired at the cruiser, but there were no direct hits, only fragments damaged the barges and the six (boats) and crushed the whaleboat. In addition, there were two fragmentation hits in the middle tube of the ship, in which two holes were subsequently found with an area of ​​2 and 5 inches (5 and 12,5 square cm). Then “Novik” again got close to “Mikasa”, now the cable was already on 15 and turned back again, but at the moment of turning it got hit by a large-caliber projectile, it is considered that it was 203-mm. The projectile landed in a cruiser around 11.40, that is, the Novik had been “dancing” for half an hour before the Japanese hit in front of their entire line of warships.

As a result, the ship received a hole to the starboard just below the waterline with an area of ​​1,84 sq.m. and other serious damage - although there are some discrepancies in the description of the latter in the sources. So, N.I. von Essen in his report gave the following description:

“The exploding shell completely burned and destroyed the cabin №5 and through the resulting hole the magnitude in 18 quad. feet appeared in the cabin-company water, filled at the same time nadbronievye compartments of the right side: rusk department and office under the room of the commander. At the same time, it was discovered that water poured into the steering compartment, why all the people jumped out of there, having dragged the exit collar behind them. ”


But at the same time, in a memorandum on the 27 battle of January 1904, attached to the letter to his wife, Nikolay Ottovich indicated something else - that the shell hit the cabin directly, and as a result of this hit, the cabins of three officers were destroyed, and broke through the armor deck, which is why the steering compartment was flooded.

Apparently, nevertheless, the most reliable is the statement of the damage of “Novik”, given in the official work “The Russian-Japanese War 1904-1905”, since it can be assumed that the commission that wrote it read in detail the relevant reports on the repair work on cruiser. It states that the ship received a hole, which spread to the 4 sheathing sheet right up to the armor deck - the latter, however, completely fulfilled its function and was not broken. However, the shell of the cartridge cellar, which was located less than 2 meters from the hole, was damaged as a result of a rupture of the projectile, as a result of which water entered the steering compartment, completely flooding it.


That same damage "Novik". The photo was taken during the repair of the cruiser in a dry dock.


Why is it important? The fact is that in most sources it is claimed that a large-caliber projectile, no less than eight-inch, hit the Novik. At the same time, the nature of the damage indicates, rather, the 120-152-mm caliber projectile - recall that getting below the waterline into the Retvizan squadron battleship 120-mm projectile led to the formation of a hole 2,1 square meters, that is, even more than the "Novik". At the same time, an eight-inch projectile would have left behind more significant damage: for example, getting into the deck of the Varyag 203-mm projectile led to the formation of holes in 4,7 square meters. So if Novik had armor punched, it should have been unconditionally accepted that an 203-mm projectile had hit the cruiser, because it was unlikely that an 152-mm armor-piercing was able to "master" an 50-mm armored bevel, at those small distances at which the battle was fought, but 203-mm was quite capable of that. But, apparently, the armor was not beaten, so it cannot be ruled out that a six-inch shell from one of the battleships or armored cruisers of the Japanese got into the Novik. Refute such a hypothesis could be data on fragments of the projectile, if any were discovered and investigated, and the caliber of the projectile was restored by it, but the author of this article did not come across such evidence.

In general, the most reliable description of the damage seems to be presented in the official source “The Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905.” Hole between 153 and 155 frames with an area of ​​about 20 square. feet ”(1,86 sq.m.), the upper edge of which was just above the waterline, the steering and rusk compartments and the compartment under the commander’s room were filled in, one cabin was destroyed, the second one was damaged, the 120-mm 3 gun, which however, at the same time fully retained combat capability. Probably, the only human loss on Novik was caused by a fragment of the same projectile — the gunner of 47-mm gun Ilya Bobrov was mortally wounded, who died the same day.

As a result, the ship took the 120 t of water, having received a serious trim on the stern, and besides, although the steering continued to operate, it could fail at any moment, and N.O. von Essen decided to withdraw the ship from the battlefield. It was absolutely right: as we have said, getting into Novik happened around 11.40, at that moment, when the cruiser turned around to break the distance to the Japanese, and after some 5 minutes after that, Mikasa turned away from Arthur in the sea - to try to attack him and further did not make much sense, since the Russian squadron managed to withdraw from the anchors and make battle order. It was important to divert the attention of the Japanese, while our squadron was not built yet, but now such actions, and even on a damaged cruiser, were obviously an excessive risk.

So von Essen ordered a retreat, and in 11.50 the cruiser anchored in its place in the outer roadstead. By that time, it was possible to take a plaster, but it was impossible to pump out the water, because the valve, with which it was possible to flush the water into the hold, so that pumps could pump it out, was just in the flooded steering compartment, where it was impossible to penetrate. In this regard, Nikolai Ottovich requested permission from the squadron leader to enter the inner harbor, which was given. Of course, the resolute and brave actions of the small cruiser could not help but arouse admiration and spiritual uplift among the people watching and participating in the battle, so this return was triumphant for Novik. This is how Lieutenant A.P. described it in his memoirs. Shter:

“When the Novik with the anthem was returning to the harbor after the battle, greetings were heard everywhere, especially from the coastal batteries, from where all the actions of both fleets were clearly visible. According to the stories of these eyewitnesses, the Novik approached the enemy squadron so closely, in comparison with the rest of the ships, that they suggested a mine attack from our side. The spectators ’imagination so flared up that they were ready to swear that they saw one of the enemy cruisers overturned.”


The mood on the cruiser itself after the battle ... perhaps the same was described best by A.P. Shter:

“The volunteer bandmaster of our orchestra was so much carried away by the war that he categorically refused to leave Novik, and asked him to give him a gun the next time, probably instead of a conductor's baton.”


Let's try to figure out what damage Novik inflicted on the enemy the fleet - I must say that doing this is not so easy.

In total, three Russian ships armed with 120-mm artillery participated in that battle, these are the Boyarin and Novik armored cruisers, as well as the Angara transport. Alas, the reliable consumption of projectiles is known only for Novik - its gunners fired 105 120-mm projectiles against the enemy. About “Boyarin” it is known only that, having discovered the main forces of the Japanese, he turned around, and, returning to the squadron standing on the outer raid, he shot the Japanese three times with a stern 120-mm gun, and not so much to get there (the distance exceeded 40 cable), in order to attract attention and warn the squadron of the approach of the main forces of the enemy. Then the commander of “Boyarin”, not wanting to expose his cruiser to danger, “hid” him behind the left flank of the Russian squadron, where he made constant circulation so that, remaining in place, would not present a tasty target for the Japanese, and eventually entered the wake past past "Askold". At the same time, the distances to the Japanese were very large, and the “Boyar” fired rare fire, but, alas, there was no information about the consumption of ammunition from this cruiser.

As for the transport of "Angara", here the data diverge. 27 120-mm shells are marked in the ship’s logbook, but for some reason, the Angara commander indicated a different number in the report — 60 shells of this caliber, and which one is correct is difficult to say. Nevertheless, the compilers of the “Russian-Japanese War 1904-1905” accepted the consumption of shells in the watch journal, that is, 27 — they probably had some additional information to verify the accuracy of this particular figure.

The Japanese in the description of the damage to their ships, received in the 27 battle of January 1904, indicated three hits of 120-mm shells. One of them received the "Mikasa" - a shell left a hole in the poop, in the area of ​​the left side of the ship. Two more hits were received by Hatsus, one of which had to be in an artillery shield, and the second - to the admiral's salon, and the shell exploded, hitting the bedroom bulkhead.

To the best of his modest forces, the author tries “not to play along” with the ships described by him, but, based on the foregoing, it can be assumed that all three of these hits were achieved by Novik gunners. Both “Boyarin” and “Angara” fired from a significantly greater distance than “Novik”, moreover, the “Angara” used up quite a few projectiles, and “Boyarin”, apparently, too. At the same time, according to the “Russian-Japanese War 1904-1905”, “Boyarin” made its first shots not against battleships, but against Japanese cruisers. It may surprise only that in all the descriptions of the battle Novik attacked Mikasa, and how then could his two projectiles hit Hatsuse, who was the last in the ranks of the battleships? However, there is no contradiction here: the fact is that the Novik, either attacking or retreating from the Japanese flagship, could obviously shoot at him from only one or two nasal 120-mm guns (during retreat), the rest were not allowed to do the same limitation of firing angles. But do not sit around the same commanders, and they probably fired at other targets, which could direct their guns.

But as for the mine attack, it, apparently, was not. On the wish of N.O. von Essen, S. P. Burachek, who served on Novik in his memoirs, pointed out his torpedo attack, but the fact is that, first, he wrote these memories after about half a century from the events described, and during that time (and at that age) human memory can make different things. And secondly, S.P. Burachek quotes Nikolai Otovich as a justification: “Prepare torpedo tubes. I go on the attack! ”- however, strictly speaking, there is no direct evidence that von Essen conceived the mine attack in particular. They can also be understood in such a way that the Novik commander ordered to charge torpedo tubes in the hope that during the attack he had planned, he might have a chance to use them. Again, recall that the range of 381-mm "self-propelled mine" Novik "was only 900 m, or a little less than 5 cable, and it is absolutely impossible to imagine that N.I. von Essen could count on bringing his cruiser so close to the flagship of the Japanese.

More about the use of mines "Novikom" wrote the Japanese, who claimed in his official storiesthat the cruiser fired a torpedo that passed right under the nose of the Iwate. As we understand, this could not be - in spite of the fact that Novik, among other Russian ships, came closest to the Japanese, but even it did not come closer than 15 cables to Mikasa, and to Ivate, of course, it was even further. But even 15 kabeltov exceeded the range of torpedoes "Novik" three times - and this is not counting the fact that N.O. von Essen never mentioned a mine attack and nowhere reported a spent mine.

In general, it can be stated that Novik conducted an exemplary battle - attacking the Japanese flagship, he tried to divert the fire to himself at the most difficult moment for our squadron, and even the Japanese noted the courage shown. At the same time, it is obvious that he still managed to inflict some damage to the enemy. Even if the author’s hypothesis that all three 120 mm shells hit the Japanese ships “flew” from Novik is wrong, it’s still impossible to assume that Angara and Boyarn were falling, and there wasn’t not a single hit. But just one hit, and even it is possible that a 152-mm caliber projectile caused serious damage to the ship and forced N.O. von Essen to bring the cruiser out of battle.

Продолжение следует ...
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  1. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 22 December 2018 07: 02
    +9
    Greetings, dear colleague hi
    "It is not ships that are fighting, but people" smile
    This is me for comparing the actions described by you von Essen and Sarychev, the commander of the "Boyarin".
    The fact that Novik performed functions unusual for it, attacking Mikasa, does not mean that the "container for boilers" as a cruiser was a mistake (as some commentators say).
    The use of the ship was marked by the fact that the command of the Russian squadron was somewhat incompetent and acted more on a hunch than on common sense. Because the ideal German-made combat vehicle was a plug in all the holes, which subsequently led to some problems with the CMU of the ship. But we will read this later with you yes I will not rush ...
    The refrain at the start of the RYAW is that the combat effectiveness of a ship directly depends on the quality of construction and maintenance. And also the fact that the speed on paper and during tests (the ever-memorable English "cook beer and graphite") differs from the real one, which the ship gives with a completely different displacement and coal.
    My opinion is that "Novik" fully met all the requirements for it. And then you should not be surprised that when you try to bite off a piece that is not in size, you risk getting it hard in the teeth. Engage in reconnaissance and maintenance of the needs of destroyers, and do not jump on battleships smile
    But the comparison at the time of the appearance in the Far East of anastranium-built ships among themselves is very significant, not in favor of the American. Which even at this time is not surprising.
    I already had an interest in learning (for comparison, of course) about the operation of the CMU in the Japanese fleet in the RYAV. There were also Italians ("Kasuga" and "Nissin"), the German "Yakumo", the guardian "Azuma", the same Americans ("Kassagi" and "Chitose"). Is there such information? what
    The article is a definite plus! drinks hi
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      22 December 2018 09: 50
      +9
      Greetings, dear namesake!
      Quote: Rurikovich
      The fact that "Novik" performed functions unusual for him, attacking "Mikasa", does not mean that "a container for boilers" as a cruiser was a mistake

      Nuuu, I definitely didn’t say that :)))))
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Engage in reconnaissance and servicing the needs of destroyers, rather than jumping on battleships

      :))) Yet Essen IMHO was absolutely right. The situation is critical, we are being attacked, the squadron has not dropped anchor, in general, the time has come for serious measures and non-trivial decisions :))))
      Quote: Rurikovich
      My opinion is that "Novik" fully met all the requirements for it.

      Like that. The only question is how adequate the requirements were ...
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 22 December 2018 17: 49
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The situation is critical, we are being attacked, the squadron has not dropped anchor, in general, the time has come for serious measures and non-trivial decisions :))))

        All the same, if there was only one Mikasa, then this would still make sense, but all subsequent matelots of the Japanese flagship saw the Novik not in full face, but in profile! Therefore, had the yapps been more attentive, they would have stuffed this hero beyond measure, which, undoubtedly, would have been the end of a career. request smile

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        I definitely didn’t say that :)))))

        Andrey, so I don’t blame you for this smile It is surprising that our "ekperd" according to Nikolasha's classification is not yet available wassat

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The only question is how adequate the requirements were.

        This is yes ... There is already a question of how much the ship's performance characteristics correspond to the requested functions. Personally, my opinion is that the Program "for the needs of the Far East", according to which Novik was built, had such contradictory requirements in the functionality of ships that the appearance of "six thousand tonnages" does not fit into any framework at all. On the one hand, the Novik-class ships were supposed to carry out direct reconnaissance of the enemy in terms of formation, speed, course, and then serve the destroyers, in the seed of the battle, but what were the long-range reconnaissance "six-thous."
        Therefore, in this tangle of contradictions, two types of scouts look like an abuse of common sense ... request
        For me, so the functions of a close scout in a squadron can also be performed by ordinary cruisers of the 2nd (3rd) ranks, as under Tsushima, the Izumi had enough of its 18 nodes to transmit all the data. Close reconnaissance, it assumes that in case of pursuit, you will reach your own faster than the enemy immediately before the clash of the main forces. Therefore, sky-high speeds to the extent ...
        But to serve the needs of destroyers, speed is even very useful. But the problem is that the Russians did not have an acceptable rapid-fire gun with a caliber of 102-107 mm, which was much more convenient for dealing with enemy destroyers. Here the German cities of the first wave and the English followers of Novik in the form of scouts were better adapted to perform more narrower functions than "Novik", the redundancy in the armament of which played a cruel joke when using it ... Therefore, armament with a 120mm caliber already gave the temptation to take part in shootings with enemy cruisers. That gave a wider (and sometimes erroneous) flight of imagination in using such a fast ship. Which is very fraught for him ... After all, if the hammer is intended for hammering in nails, then you cannot level the putty with it wink
        It's always nice to read you, Andrei Nikolaevich drinks
        Sincerely, also Andrey Nikolaevich hi
        1. anzar
          anzar 22 December 2018 21: 33
          +1
          Rurikovich writes: But to serve the needs of destroyers, speed is even very useful

          SW a colleague also thought so, but there wasn’t such a need for mature thinking (due to the low speed and range of torpedoes) they won’t get close enough during the day (regardless of speed), but they don’t need very high speed at night (even unmask sparks from pipes). What comes out, Noviketo is a sub-cruiser / slow super-destroyer? (not for nothing that the name inherited EM)))
          Not really, no one has canceled the fight against enemy EM. Artillery allows them to drive away, but the speed nevertheless does not allow them to catch up, except in fresh weather. I wonder if the initial request was at 25 and 27,5 nodal cruiser that the Germans would answer?)))
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 22 December 2018 21: 52
            +1
            Quote: anzar
            In the afternoon they will not have time to get close enough (regardless of speed)

            You look rather narrowly at the range of use of destroyers and the role of ships like Novik in this.
            Purely hypothetically, imagine how the battle would have ended in the early morning of "Resolute" and "Guardian" if "Novik" had been in providing cover for the operation?
            Further, as we already understood on this resource the probability of daytime attacks by destroyers on a combat-ready squadron. They are practically zero. But who says that attacks by lagging ships are impossible? A ship of the "Novik" class could safely be near during such an attack and in the event of retaliatory actions from the side of the same light forces, prevent them from disrupting the attack of their own or getting involved in a battle to gain time to complete the attack or cover the retreat. type should provide the action of light forces, so he must necessarily be at the head of the column? belay laughing No, everything is much more multifaceted yes wink
            Look much broader at the interaction of such a ship and light forces ...
            Quote: anzar
            Not really, no one has canceled the fight against enemy EM. Artillery allows them to drive away, but the speed nevertheless does not allow them to catch up, except in fresh weather.

            Um ... Ensuring the actions of their forces does not mean the destruction of enemy destroyers. It’s not necessary to chase after everyone to drown him ... It is much more important to make sure that your own people complete the task. And if for this it is enough to make a fire curtain so that the enemy would turn away, then we can assume that the cruiser justifies its purpose.
            The speeds of 23-24 knots of the then destroyers are quite comparable to the speed of Novik (and even less in fresh weather), so the interaction is quite real. yes
            1. anzar
              anzar 22 December 2018 23: 53
              +1
              SW colleague Rurikovich, you have spoken in detail about what I (concisely)))
              How would the battle between the "Resolute" and the "Guardian" end in the early morning if "Novik" had been providing cover for the operation?

              And what did they do for intelligence. Isn't this the work of a "close" intelligence officer?
              A ship of the "Novik" class could safely be near during such an attack and in the event of retaliatory actions from the side of the light forces, too, not to allow them to disrupt the attack of their own or by getting involved in a battle to gain time to complete the attack or cover the retreat.

              And also to fire at the attacked ship, preventing the calculation of PM guns (usually standing open) to fire at the attackers. But where is the outstanding speed here?
              Ensuring the actions of their forces does not mean the destruction of enemy destroyers. It’s not necessary to chase after everyone to drown him ..

              In general, yes, but it's better to be able to catch up and drown. Otherwise, again, where is the need for outstanding speed? A smaller, cheaper and more seaworthy ship is better suited for this. (like mine "cruisers")
              The speeds of 23-24 knots of the then destroyers are quite comparable to the speed of Novik (and even less in fresh weather)

              No, the speed of the enemy EMs was greater and only fresh weather gave a chance to catch up ... And this opportunity fetters the actions of enemy destroyers. For me, the requirement of 25 knots in 3kT made the cruiser ... very specific (no fish, no meat)). In this case, the best ship would be with 27-28 knots due to VI and weapons (purely anti-mine, 2x120 and 4-6x75mm)
              1. Rurikovich
                Rurikovich 23 December 2018 08: 19
                +1
                Quote: anzar
                Isn't this the work of a "close" intelligence officer?

                Do not confuse flies with cutlets. request Reconnaissance with the squadron before the battle and surveys of the nearby islands at night are two big differences, in my opinion. I repeat once again that if the Novik command had been used to cover the light forces, the sinking of the Guardian and the Terrible could have been avoided.
                Quote: anzar
                interfering with the calculations of PM guns (usually standing open) to fire on the attackers.

                Lord, do you consider the 3-47mm anti-mine guns (on board) a serious threat to the destroyers of the turn of the century ??? belay I beg of you lol "Hey, you stop firing there with 120mm guns - you are preventing 47mm from firing at the enemy." laughing In my opinion, getting one 120mm landmine is more deadly than a couple of actually 47mm hand grenades smile
                Quote: anzar
                Otherwise, again, where is the need for outstanding speed?

                For joint actions with destroyers! How long can we say that with standard 26-28 knots the speed (and "nevka" is even less), the speed of 25 knots was quite enough, because the operating speeds always differ from the test speeds downward yes And when reconnaissance, high speed allowed a little faster escape from the fire. What's bad about it? wink

                Quote: anzar
                In this case, the best ship would be with 27-28 knots due to VI and weapons (purely anti-mine, 2x120 and 4-6x75mm)

                Anzar, in my opinion, the admirals who make up the requirements for ships under the "Program for the needs of the Far East" knew better what they needed than you and I wink
                Therefore, further transfusion from empty to empty I see pointless hi
                1. anzar
                  anzar 23 December 2018 12: 47
                  +1
                  Do not confuse flies with cutlets. Intelligence during the squadron before the battle and inspections of nearby islands at night - in my opinion, two big differences

                  Differences are differences, but then you write yourself:
                  ... use command "Novik" to cover the light forces, the sinking of "Guardian" and "Terrible" could have been avoided

                  So he should be there. And where, then, are the "flies" and where are the "cutlets"?
                  during reconnaissance, high speed allowed a little faster escape from the fire. What's bad about it?

                  Only what was sacrificed for this speed. None other than you wrote above: "For me, so the functions of a close scout with a squadron can be performed by ordinary cruisers of the 2nd (3rd) ranks, as under Tsushima "Izumi" - he had enough of his 18 knots ... "
                  I agree with this and therefore wrote that it is better for Novik either to be a "normal" cruiser, or to "prescribe" other performance characteristics - to be a little smaller and weaker (art) but faster (27+ knots) for better "destroyer" suitability. But your opinion has changed)))
                  Lord, do you consider 3-47mm anti-mine cannons (on board) a serious threat to destroyers of the beginning of the century ??? ..... "Hey, you stop firing with 120mm guns there - prevent you from firing 47mm at the enemy"

                  From this I understood only that you did not understand anything. For some reason ...
                  What do you mean by the words "support for the attacks of their destroyers"? Shouts of "hurray"? I was talking about fire from Novik (from 120mm! In the absence of large ones) on the attacked enemy ship (battleship; cruiser ...) interfering (and suppressing) its anti-mine fire on OUR attacking minars.
                  Therefore, further transfusion from empty to empty I see pointless

                  This is true, with that level of understanding (( hi
                  1. Rurikovich
                    Rurikovich 23 December 2018 16: 26
                    +1
                    Quote: anzar
                    Only what was sacrificed for this speed. None other than you wrote above: "For me, so the functions of a close scout in a squadron can also be performed by ordinary cruisers of the 2nd (3rd) ranks, as under Tsushima" Izumi ", his 18 knots were enough ..."

                    I said that it was for me personally and only as a scout wink For operations with destroyers 18 knots is not enough. Therefore, for those functions for which Novik was built, its speed is very useful yes winked But the admirals at the end of the 19th century saw the functions differently, therefore, under their assumptions in use, and ordered a cruiser with such performance characteristics.
                    All topic closed
                2. Saxahorse
                  Saxahorse 23 December 2018 22: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: Rurikovich
                  Anzar, in my opinion, the admirals who make up the requirements for ships under the "Program for the needs of the Far East" knew better what they needed than you and I

                  The opinions of the admirals making up the requirements for the program "for the needs of the Far East" diverged to all eight cardinal points. There was nothing even approximately resembling at least some intelligible concept. They built everything practically from a lantern and it is impossible to understand for what reasons they accepted and paid for this or that ship. An example is the same Boyarin ..
      2. rfv18
        rfv18 23 December 2018 13: 37
        -6
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        in all battle descriptions, Novik attacked Mikasu

        Extremely stupid was the commander, this Essen. But fermented patriots love these.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        About Boyarin, it is only known that, having discovered the main forces of the Japanese, he turned around, and, returning to the squadron standing on the outer roadstead, shot the Japanese from the stern 120-mm gun three times, and not so much to get there (the distance exceeded 40 cables), how much in order to attract attention and warn the squadron about the approach of the main enemy forces. Then the “Boyarina” commander, not wanting to endanger his cruiser, “hid” him behind the left flank of the Russian squadron, where he made constant circulations so that, remaining in place, he did not represent a tidbit for the Japanese

        Commander Boyarina acted grammotno. Leavened ones do not like these.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        But just one hit, and it is even possible that with a 152-mm caliber projectile, caused serious damage to the ship and forced N.O. von Essen take the cruiser out of battle.

        I really hope that at that moment at least something came to him.
        1. arturpraetor
          arturpraetor 23 December 2018 14: 24
          +6
          Shaw, the return of the prodigal Nicholas again? laughing
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            23 December 2018 16: 14
            +5
            But what about :))) I guess this melody from the first note :)))))
          2. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 23 December 2018 22: 09
            +1
            Quote: arturpraetor
            Shaw, the return of the prodigal Nicholas again?

            Yes, he didn’t disappear too much wassat
    2. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 23 December 2018 22: 31
      +1
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Because the ideal German-made combat vehicle was a plug in all the holes, which subsequently led to some problems with the CMU of the ship.

      The perfect fighting vehicle !? Well you give laughing

      Do you really read the articles in this series and comments to them? Even in the comments to the previous article with a description of the performance characteristics, they recalled that Novik suffered from poor contours (hence the speed equal to Varyag, despite the high power of the machines and half the displacement), Novik suffered from poor weight distribution (constant trim on the nose under normal load is a rough jamb of the project), Novik was poorly armed (despite the fact that they did not reach the design displacement as much as 270 tons. Meanwhile, another 80 tons made it possible to deliver 6 "and another 100 tons and a couple of 8" to enter)

      The great attention received by Novik follows from the fact that he was the only one .. Sarychev killed his Boyarin literally on the third day of the war. Novik remained the only small cruiser on duty. Well, not armadillos to drive to every smoke on the horizon ..
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 24 December 2018 12: 04
        0
        and add another 100 tons and a couple of 8 "

        What for?
        1. Saxahorse
          Saxahorse 24 December 2018 22: 37
          +1
          For a pontus of course! To be! In any case, there were enough supporters of such a layout among the Russian admirals.

          In fact, you are right. Not why. If there is a desire to squeeze the weight out of the project to the maximum, it is more logical to add a couple more 6 ", bring it to 8 pieces and it will be enough for his eyes.
  2. Potter
    Potter 22 December 2018 08: 16
    +4
    Thank! A good distraction from the battleship theme. Novik is an iconic ship of the Russian fleet. Such a short and such bright life was destined for him. And, of course, build quality in German factories. Another no less vivid cruiser, Askold, was also distinguished by the enviable quality of the assembly of machines, as well as its exceptional economy in swimming (thanks to the uncoupling device that transmitted rotation from the more harmful machine to the extreme shafts). And, of course, the role of the commander of the ship in his fate.
    1. anzar
      anzar 22 December 2018 15: 17
      +1
      ... as well as exceptional economic efficiency in swimming (thanks to the uncoupling device that transmitted rotation from the more harmful machine to the outer shafts)

      And why are they so tenacious especially mythology? Uv. colleague Gonchar, can you describe this "device transmitting rotation" from one machine to three propeller shafts?
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 22 December 2018 18: 20
      0
      "The role of the commander of the ship in his fate" here I completely agree with you: Essen, as they say, "went to hell in the mouth", and Sarychev was heroic from behind. The personality of the captain in battle means a lot
  3. kvs207
    kvs207 22 December 2018 08: 21
    +4
    Quote: Rurikovich
    perfect German-made combat vehicle

    How perfect is it?
    The article is an absolute plus, and the author is honored and respected. Special thanks for the Boyarin's photo. This is a ghost ship. I have known about him for 45 years, but I saw it. full face only with you. True, I was not puzzled by the search for an image, but if Novik and his comrades publish often, then the situation with Boyarin is awful. And, an insignificant remark - A "Novik", after all, is more beautiful)))
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 22 December 2018 12: 38
      +3
      Photo Boyarin quite a lot.
    2. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 22 December 2018 18: 05
      0
      Quote: kvs207
      How perfect is it?

      Ideal for performing the tasks that were assigned to it during the design yes High speed made it possible to carry out reconnaissance during the squadron before the battle and to get out of the fire in time, as well as to maintain their destroyers in the attack and participate in repelling the attacks of enemy enemy destroyers. 75mm were already unsuitable for such purposes at the time of the RNE, and 120mm, although redundant, but in the absence of 102-107mm quick-firing guns were quite suitable for destroying enemy destroyers hi
  4. Arberes
    Arberes 22 December 2018 09: 24
    +3
    In his wild youth, he avidly read "Tsushima" by Novikov-Priboy and "Port Artur" by Alexander Stepanov.
    Very strong books! And so far, one of my brightest feelings from the authors I have read is a great annoyance for our fleet, and indeed for the army.
    Like almost everything is mediocre and stupid.
    The topic is very interesting and with great pleasure I put my plus to the author.
    Thank you, dear Andrey from Chelyabinsk. hi
    1. Oleg Kolsky 051
      Oleg Kolsky 051 23 December 2018 18: 49
      +2
      Well, at the expense of "Tsushima" I agree with you. But about Stepanov with his book in 2 volumes, for me it's such a rare nonsense! And the officers in his overwhelming mass are cretins and cowards, and the soldiers keep the defense themselves without the participation of the commanders (by tradition), and he has almost one warrior in the field, and what is the nonsense about Kolchak, who sleeps among the dead, covering himself with one them with canvas. What else? And, it seems he has "Askold" with tower artillery. General White? Well, as the future father-in-law of the heroic ensign, on whom the entire defense was held (had it not been for injury, he would have defended Arthur), he was almost ignored and what he was doing, it’s not clear, I’m probably cooking Varya down the aisle, and therefore bypassed by the negative of the book's author. Stepanov's fantasy took acceleration from chapter to chapter. And this is what I read from memory for a long time. To be honest, after reading it, I used it to kindle a fireplace.
      1. Arberes
        Arberes 23 December 2018 18: 54
        +4
        There was also General Kondratenko and Lieutenant Boreyko as compensation for my moral suffering.
        Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
        To be honest, after reading it, I used to kindle a fireplace

        God is your judge. I only burn stoves with modern detectives.
        1. Oleg Kolsky 051
          Oleg Kolsky 051 23 December 2018 19: 01
          0
          Good evening.
          I do not buy these detectives and do not read, it's a pity time.
          As for Stepanovsky, Arthur, you’ll excuse me for your anguish, but as they say, you know, the topic for the book is serious, so as to twist in two volumes. That's 8 years ago I found her application.
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 23 December 2018 19: 35
            +7
            Both "Tsushima" and "Port Arthur" were written by the authors in the 30s, respectively, there is a lot of what is called a social order in them. If viewed from the point of view of historical truth, then both works are gloomy darkness. Stepanov collected in his novel all the Arthurian gossip and largely sinned against materiel. By the way, the tower "Askold" is not there, but about the "Bayan" it is written as if they were two-gun. Plus, his 254mm coastal guns shoot black powder, and then they are switched to smokeless (in fact, Meller increased the elevation angles on the machines) and the like.
            Novikov, too, did not spare the tar to exhaust the officers of the Russian fleet and also pleased with pearls for naval tactics, design of shells and other details.
            However, it must be remembered that both are just works of art in which the author still has the right to his own interpretation of events! In general, historical monographs and historical novels are different genres. It is foolish to demand amusement from the former, and from the latter full reliability.
            In general, Stepanov, Novikov and Pikul became the first authors of many lovers of naval history, including your humble servant. Just being interested in the topic, I (like many others) began to move on and learned a lot that cast doubt on the former, seemingly unshakable, truths.
            But since these writers managed to arouse interest in the topic, it is obvious that their work was not in vain.
            Something like that.
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 23 December 2018 21: 58
              +3
              Quote: Senior Sailor
              In general, Stepanov, Novikov and Pikul became the first authors of many lovers of naval history, including your humble servant

              They served as a kind of wick for lovers of the history of the Russian Navy. Yes, somewhere it was exaggerated for the sake of artistic fiction, somewhere it was embellished, somewhere reality did not dock with what was described ... But they instilled a love for the self-sacrifice of the Russian people before the Fatherland. They made them fall in love with the sailors who gave their lives on "Navarino", "Donskoy", "Oslyab", "Svetlana", "Ushakov", "Borodino", "Suvorov", the same "Novik", "Rurik" .... Ivan , you shouldn't ignore it ... hi
              It is for the description of these sacrifices and exploits that we reread Port Arthur, Tsushima, and Cruiser with Moonsund and Three Ages of Okini-san several times ... soldier
              And maybe few people have heard, but Port Arthur has a sequel .... It is called the Zvonarev Family! Did you read??? I - yes !!!
              And this is a kind of propaganda ... The propaganda of love for their homeland, regardless of its shortcomings ...
              1. Arberes
                Arberes 23 December 2018 22: 23
                +3
                Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
                but as they say lie yes moderately know, the topic for the book is serious, so as to twist in two volumes

                Senior seaman ahead of me in response to the liberties of the authors of the above works.
                Quote: Senior Sailor
                In general, historical monographs and historical novels are different genres. It’s foolish to demand amusement from the first, from the second full reliability

                I agree with you, dear Senior seaman
                hi
                Quote: Senior Sailor
                But since these writers managed to arouse interest in the topic, it is obvious that their work was not in vain


                "It is for the description of these sacrifices and deeds that we reread Port Arthur, Tsushima, and Cruiser with Moonsund and Three Ages of Okini-san several times ..."
                Yes, Pikul is also one of my favorite writers on the maritime theme - "Moonzund" was my first work, and I generally keep quiet about "Requiem for the PQ17 caravan! The first time I read there were tears, but I was forgiven for being very young."
                Quote: Rurikovich
                Or maybe few have heard, but Port Arthur has a sequel .... It is called The Zvonarev Family! Did you read??? I - yes !!

                I heard, but did not read, dear Rurikovich hi
                Thank you friends for the conversation! I am an amateur on the marine theme, but ships, seas and oceans have always occupied a worthy place in my soul.
              2. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 24 December 2018 11: 58
                +2
                I read "The Zvonarev Family", and somehow it so happened that the second part was earlier than the first :)) And, by the way, I liked it more. (I mean, the second part is more than the first)
                Although later, with considerable surprise, I found out that General Bely had never been not only the head of the GAU, but had never served in him either.
                And by the way, there is a considerable share of probability that Stepanov has never been to Port Arthur
                http://tsushima.su/RU/libru/i/Page_7/page_18/page_19/page_26/chistyakov-port-artur/
                Which, however, in no way detracts from his talent.
                1. Oleg Kolsky 051
                  Oleg Kolsky 051 24 December 2018 22: 34
                  0
                  Goodnight. Thank you for the link.
                  I read it with interest.
          2. Arberes
            Arberes 23 December 2018 22: 27
            0
            Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
            I do not buy these detectives and do not read, it's a pity time.

            Me too (except for Conan Doyle), so by the way I had to.
      2. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 23 December 2018 22: 05
        +1
        Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
        And, it seems he has "Askold" with tower artillery.

        But A. Stepanov saw with his own eyes the horrors of the Arthurian epic wink
        In 1903, the family moved to Port Arthur. At the age of twelve, he took part in the defense of Port Arthur, his father Nikolai Ivanovich Stepanov commanded the Battery of the Electric Cliff, and then the Suvorov Mortar Battery on the Tigris Peninsula. A twelve-year-old boy saw and remembered everything, being connected with his father, tried to be useful, along with other children, brought donkey water to the forefront. He was shell-shocked, almost lost his legs, they were cured by the then-young doctor S. R. Mirotorevtsev, later a famous scientist, with whom A. N. Stepanov, already as a writer, supported friendly correspondence. He “personally knew the Stessel, Belykh, Nikitin, Kondratenko and many others. Belykh saw S. O. Makarov, with midshipmen he climbed on armadillos; dreamed of becoming a sailor ... "After the surrender of the fortress, together with his father, he was among the prisoners of war in Nagasaki (the future writer stayed in the fortress for 329 days)

        So at the age of 12, the shields of the Askold's guns could have seemed to him tower-like from certain angles ...
        1. Arberes
          Arberes 23 December 2018 22: 47
          +1
          "After the surrender of the fortress, together with his father, he was among the prisoners of war in Nagasaki (the future writer was in the fortress all 329 days) "
          I saw everything with my own eyes. Respect worthy !!!
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 24 December 2018 12: 34
        +2
        Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
        And, it seems he has "Askold" with tower artillery.

        At Pikul - in "Out of the Dead End".
        Near Beirut, Askold sank a Turkish advice note with a quick fire; the midship tower of midshipman Valrond successfully hit covered German transport.

        Valrond squeezes his body into the narrow slit of the armored door. The most difficult thing is not to get crippled. But when he sat down, then there was nothing more comfortable than your chair, whence you are the master of this terrible multi-ton tower.
        - Is everything on the ground? - looked midshipman. - Then pull up the tower for battle ... - And into the microphone: - The nasal plutong is ready to open fire, in the name of Allah!

        And this is not a mistake - further in the book is a description of the operation of the tower.
        1. Oleg Kolsky 051
          Oleg Kolsky 051 24 December 2018 13: 41
          +1
          Thank you for clarification.
          It’s just that it struck me as a memory that the captain, the roofing felts, jumped onto the bow tower of Askold Group of Companies. Perhaps I was mistaken and this is from another author. I read for a long time.
          Well, Port Arthur Stepanova came to me. As they say, the taste and color ...
          By the way, the Senior Sailor posted a link for that he had a separate ATP, you need to read in his spare time.
  5. anzar
    anzar 22 December 2018 12: 47
    0
    +++ dear Andrey, very interesting.
    ..the last one left Piraeus on December 6, 1901. “Novik” arrived in Port Arthur on April 2, 1903, “Varyag” - 25 February 1902, so the transition "Novika" took 112 days, and the "Varyag" - 111 days

    Are there any errors here? From 6.12.1901/25/XNUMX to XNUMX.02.1902 is not 111 days.
    ... and on September 26-28 he “escaped” to Chemulpo, to see if there were Japanese ships there.

    I wonder how events would have developed had Novik replaced Varyag? Managed to leave for speed? Or, due to less precipitation by another channel?
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 22 December 2018 17: 57
      +2
      Quote: anzar
      I wonder how events would have developed had Novik replaced Varyag?

      No way. The Japanese were taller (as Obi van Kenobi said to Luke Skywalker wink ) because tactically they could simply block the fairway and choose the distance and direction of the battle
      Quote: anzar
      Managed to leave for speed?

      If only tore the distance (the notorious volley hunt). The question is how long “Novik” would have been under fire and after which time he would have received the first hit. “Ajax” with “Achilles” also acted this way in a battle with “Spee” but still got their hits. But the combat stability of a ship weighing 3000 tons is less than a ship weighing 6000 tons. Therefore, it is much more likely that the "Novik" would have failed earlier than the "Varyag". It would be another matter if such a breakthrough would be unexpected for the enemy. But the fact is that he was expected, therefore they were preparing. So there is absolutely no chance. smile
  6. 27091965
    27091965 22 December 2018 13: 01
    +3
    “Novik” went straight to “Mikasu” - on the one hand, such a jerk of a small cruiser, completely not intended for a squadron battle, looks like pure suicide,


    In the publications of those years, this attack was represented by such a pattern;
  7. arturpraetor
    arturpraetor 22 December 2018 14: 53
    +2
    Truly "live and learn" smile Somehow I didn’t pay attention to this moment of the battle at Port Arthur, but meanwhile it looks very indicative: both Eberhard and Essen showed themselves to be very proactive commanders, it was not for nothing that he later headed the Black Sea Fleet alone during the First World War, but the other is Baltic. And together with Grammatchikov and Viren, they seriously "shake" the thesis about the lack of initiative of all officers of the Russian Imperial Fleet in the years of the RYAV - at least four ship commanders showed the opposite, and this is already something.
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 22 December 2018 17: 58
      +2
      Quote: arturpraetor
      both Eberhard and Essen showed themselves to be very initiative commanders; it was not just that in the future one led the Black Sea Fleet during the First World War, and the other Baltic.

      Alas, Artyom, this was not enough wink hi
  8. tagtank
    tagtank 22 December 2018 15: 34
    +1
    Eberhard was not the commander of the Petropavlovsk, but the flag-captain of Stark. And so yes, arbitrariness.
  9. Comrade
    Comrade 22 December 2018 15: 51
    +3
    Dear Andrew,
    Apparently, the rapprochement between Novik and Mikasa is a myth, akin to the damaged Asama by the Varangian.
    I would also like to thank you for the errors found in the first part of the series "On the issue of accuracy of shooting."
    There will be a new edition, where past errors will be taken into account.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      22 December 2018 16: 03
      +1
      Quote: Comrade
      Dear Andrew,
      Apparently, the rapprochement between Novik and Mikasa is a myth, akin to the damaged Asama by the Varangian.

      This is unlikely, dear Valentine :))) There are too many eyewitness accounts from our side. Japanese official history shows the same thing, and I just can’t imagine what kind of evidence can refute all this.
      Quote: Comrade
      I would also like to thank you for the errors found in the first part of the series "On the issue of accuracy of shooting."

      Always happy to help! hi
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 23 December 2018 05: 25
        +4
        Dear Andrew,
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Japanese official history shows the same thing, and I just can’t imagine what kind of evidence can refute all this.

        Before us are two sources.
        "Description of military operations at sea in 37-38 in the city of Meiji", which says that before going on the opposite course, "Novik" fought not with the 1st, but with the 2nd combat detachment.

        "Top Secret History of the Russo-Japanese War at Sea" (part 1, volume 1), from where one of the maps of the battle on January 27, 1904 near Port Arthur was taken, and on which the trajectory of the Novik's movement is presented.
        A fragment with the episode of interest to us was "cut" from this map. To estimate the minimum distance at which the Novik approached the enemy, I placed a scale scale between our cruiser and the Japanese ships, taken on the same map.
        A certain distance has been converted into cable lengths. Since there is no indication on the map if there is a distance in meters or in yards, the distance is shown for both options. Below in the image was "inserted" a fragment of the description of the battle from the Japanese officialdom, where it can be seen that "Iwate", on which "Novik" allegedly fired a torpedo, was the end one. Exactly to him Russian cruiser and approached 13,7 - 15 cab., and not to "Mikasa".
        At this time, the 1st combat detachment was already going south, turning left before that by about four rumba. On this map he is no longer there, but there is another map where there is no "Novik", but you can see how the 1st combat unit turned, and the 2nd continued to move in the same direction.
      2. Comrade
        Comrade 23 December 2018 13: 14
        +1
        Dear Andrew,
        Last night, when I left a comment, there was a map on the monitor.
        Now I’m looking from an iPhone, there’s no map, although there is a clipping from the “Description of hostilities”.
        Do not consider it work, dear colleague, drop a few words, is it just that I don’t have a map on the screen, or you don’t see it either?
        If not, I'll post the hours through 15 again.
        1. anzar
          anzar 23 December 2018 14: 02
          0
          I just don’t have a map on the screen ...

          Alas, a colleague, we all do not see her ((
          Your Meiji snippet proves ... what? That everyone in the reports "lies like eyewitnesses"?))) I admit that they will see the cruiser closer, much more difficult than a mine, but describing where it supposedly passed ... it's too much.
        2. arturpraetor
          arturpraetor 23 December 2018 14: 26
          +1
          Quote: Comrade
          Do not consider it work, dear colleague, drop a few words, is it just that I don’t have a map on the screen, or you don’t see it either?

          Do not see. and this is most likely due to restrictions on image uploads in the comments: apparently, more than one in a single comment is simply not displayed.
        3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          23 December 2018 15: 54
          0
          Greetings, dear Valentine!
          Unfortunately, there is no map, so I cannot comment on it yet. But about Meiji, I think, something important was missing. At the very beginning of the battle, while the Russian EBRs were still anchored / removed from them Novik, according to Meiji, "Novik" went on the attack

          Obviously, he could not attack the 2 squad in any way, in which case he would have to go along the entire Japanese system, and why would he do that? Moreover, according to the description, this happened even before the 2-th detachment, following the 1-th, laid down on W. Now there Novik and attacked Mikasu. Further

          That is, the actions of "Novik" you mentioned took place after the battleships of Togo turned to the left and left the battle - it is clear that at that time "Novik" could only fight with the 2nd detachment, well, he couldn't catch up with the first one :) ))))
          In other words, in Meiji there is no description of Novik's actions while he was fighting the battleships, and there is only a description of his last "raid", during which he received his projectile, and it is not yet known from which ship.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Comrade
            Comrade 24 December 2018 02: 54
            0
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            the actions of "Novik" you mentioned took place after the battleships of Togo turned to the left and left the battle

            That's right, here is a fragment of another official card to confirm your words. Togo’s detachment, which turned left, is missing on this map; the Japanese depicted there only a solid line indicating where the 1-th fighting detachment went.

            The diagram shows the loop described by Novik in the direction of the armored cruisers. On the diagram, on the head and end flags are visible - Vice Admiral Kamimura and Rear Admiral Misu, respectively.
            According to the diagram, the minimum distance between Novik and the closest Japanese cruisers was 13,7 cab. (specified in the source, there is a distance in yards).
          3. Comrade
            Comrade 24 December 2018 02: 57
            0
            Dear Andrew,
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            he could not attack the 2 squad in any way, in which case he would have to go along the entire Japanese system

            He did so, here is an official Japanese document, more precisely, a fragment of it.
            1. Comrade
              Comrade 24 December 2018 05: 06
              0
              Thus, dear colleague, we see that the Japanese do not know anything about the Mikasa attack by Novik.
              And the testimony of eyewitnesses is not evidence, for example, the ship documents of the Varyag and Askold speak of the sunk Japanese destroyers. Allegedly, everyone saw it.
              But we do not believe this information, because it is not confirmed by Japanese sources.
              Similarly with Novik. Essen's story about the Mikasa attack by the Japanese is not confirmed.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                25 December 2018 00: 23
                +2
                Greetings, dear colleague!
                Quote: Comrade
                Similarly with Novik. Essen's story about the Mikasa attack by the Japanese is not confirmed.

                It seems like that. But it is not refuted.
                Quote: Comrade
                Thus, dear colleague, we see that the Japanese do not know anything about the Mikasa attack by Novik.

                But I'm completely not sure about this.
                Quote: Comrade
                He did so, here is an official Japanese document, more precisely, a fragment of it.

                If this is the beginning of the battle, then it is depicted completely unreliable and completely contrary to Russian descriptions. And in this case, I am inclined to trust precisely them - the Russian commanders knew what they were doing, but the Japanese only watched it from the outside. Accordingly, in this matter, the probability of error is higher for the Japanese.
                Quote: Comrade
                And the testimony of eyewitnesses is not evidence, for example, the ship documents of the Varyag and Askold speak of the sunk Japanese destroyers. Allegedly, everyone saw it.
                But we do not believe this information, because it is not confirmed by Japanese sources.

                A colleague, official Japanese documents are exactly the same drawn up according to eyewitnesses. And the Japanese in their observations are no more accurate than our sailors. Therefore, when allegedly they saw Japanese destroyers sunk on Russian ships, we turn to (and trust) Japanese sources, which have priority in this matter, because the Japanese obviously knew their losses better, and we only watched from afar. When the Japanese describe the actions of Russian ships, we check them according to Russian sources, and in this case it is our sources that are more priority, because it was our commanders who knew what they were doing, and the Japanese could only watch it from the outside.
                A top secret story is not the ultimate truth in which everything is absolutely correct. It was compiled from reports of eyewitnesses, who were also mistaken, like any eyewitnesses in any military conflicts. The Japanese are not superhumans, not cyborgs, and they have no less errors in observations than everyone else. Therefore, information on maneuvers and other data on Russian ships must be checked according to our sources.
                1. Comrade
                  Comrade 25 December 2018 04: 27
                  0
                  Dear Andrew,
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  It seems like that. But it is not refuted.

                  Dear colleague, the compilers of the "Description of Military Actions" and "Top Secret History" were busy with a serious matter, and exposing fake messages and mass hallucinations was hardly their task.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  If this is the beginning of the battle, then it is depicted completely unreliable and completely contrary to Russian descriptions.

                  Dear colleague, if "Novik" actually swung around in front of "Mikasa" on 17-15 cables, it would be described and recorded on the map.
                  So, as was the case with the 2nd combat detachment. "Novik" actually came up, the Japanese wrote it down and drew it.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  in this case, it’s our sources that are priority because our commanders knew what they were doing

                  Of course, you are right, we just have to see the plot of the Novik's course in the battle of Port Arthur and compare it with the Japanese scheme. Alas, judging by the fact that even A. Yu. Emelin does not have it, I strongly doubt that it exists in nature.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  it was our commanders who knew what they were doing, and the Japanese could only watch it from the side.

                  It’s one thing that actually happened, another thing that our commanders wrote in reports.
                  You and I have read in the report of the 1st rank captain Grammatchikov about the "Askold" throw, when the "Asam" allegedly shied away from him. At the same time, the Japanese diagram shows that it was "Askold" who "made legs" from him.
                  And who do you command to believe? I personally trust the Japanese more, because the Asama is a serious machine, and Askold cannot compete with him in an artillery duel.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  A top secret story is not the ultimate truth in which everything is absolutely correct. It was compiled from reports of eyewitnesses, who were also mistaken, like any eyewitnesses in any military conflicts

                  This is so, but still, how to explain why the rapprochement of Novik with the 2nd combat detachment is both described and illustrated, and supposedly the rapprochement of Novik with the supposedly Mikasa is passed over in deathly silence and is not reflected in the diagram in any way?
                  Is it really a mistake of the compilers or eyewitnesses who did not see Novik from fifteen cables? Doubtful ..
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    25 December 2018 09: 27
                    +1
                    Greetings, dear Valentine!
                    Quote: Comrade
                    Dear colleague, the compilers of the "Description of Military Actions" and "Top Secret History" were busy with a serious matter, and exposing fake messages and mass hallucinations was hardly their task.

                    How great you have the opinion of Japanese observers has become the ultimate truth, and the Russians - fake messages and hallucinations.
                    Quote: Comrade
                    Dear colleague, if "Novik" actually spun in front of "Mikasa" on 17-15 cables, it would be both described and recorded on the map

                    Colleague, well, you just reminded me "If there was something sensible here, then in England it would have been invented and implemented long ago, and since there is nothing like that, it’s all nonsense!" :)))
                    Quote: Comrade
                    Of course, you are right, we just have to see the plot of the Novik's course in the battle of Port Arthur and compare it with the Japanese scheme. Alas, judging by the fact that even A. Yu. Emelin does not have it, I strongly doubt that it exists in nature.

                    A colleague, the scheme has nothing to do with it. Schemes are drawn according to reports, that is, according to the same observations of eyewitnesses, the presence or absence of the scheme here does not change anything at all. The primary source is precisely the reports, not the scheme.
                    Quote: Comrade
                    It’s one thing that actually happened, another thing that our commanders wrote in reports.

                    The same goes for the Japanese
                    Quote: Comrade
                    You and I have read in the report of the 1st rank captain Grammatchikov about the "Askold" throw, when the "Asam" allegedly shied away from him. At the same time, the Japanese diagram shows that it was "Askold" who "made legs" from him.

                    Given the fact that Grammatchikov apparently took Yakumo for Asama, I think that a slightly different section of the scheme should be studied :)))) In general, if you believe that Grammatchikov wrote all the same about Asama, then according to the scheme you cited Asama at least twice or even three times turned away from Askold’s course

                    I would say it happened in 18.40, 19.07 and possibly around 19.40
                    Quote: Comrade
                    And whom do you command to believe?

                    And why - to believe? We need to understand what exactly on Askold could have taken Asama for the lapel, that's all.
                    Quote: Comrade
                    This is so, but still, how to explain why the rapprochement of Novik with the 2nd combat detachment is both described and illustrated, and supposedly the rapprochement of Novik with the supposedly Mikasa is passed over in deathly silence and is not reflected in the diagram in any way?

                    What I would like to note:
                    1) If in this picture

                    Since the Japanese recorded not only the courses, but the positions of the ships relative to each other, it can be stated that their scheme is worthless and false, because Novik could not be in this position at all. For this, he had to be completely not where he actually was at the time the battle began. I can only conclude that, at the 1th combat detachment, Novik was apparently not watched and his maneuvers were not described, but only the commanders of the 2th detachment who also shot at him paid attention to him.
                    2) Meiji talks about "Novik attacking from different sides" - God is with him, with different sides, but this kind of hints that there were more attacks than one.
                    1. Comrade
                      Comrade 25 December 2018 22: 52
                      0
                      Dear Andrey,
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      How great you have the opinion of Japanese observers has become the ultimate truth, and the Russians - fake messages and hallucinations.

                      It happened, dear colleague, and you do not need to go far for examples.
                      Judge for yourself, we have data from Japanese observers who counted shells from the Varyag's cellars, and there is a report from the Varyag commander.
                      We have data from Japanese observers who counted shells from the Eagle's cellars, and there are memories of Kostenko.
                      The Japanese could make a mistake, the Russians could make a mistake, however, when you need to know how many of these ships fired shells, the data is taken exactly from "Top Secret History" and are compared with the standard ammunition. It turns out that the aforementioned officers have no faith, and "Top Secret History" is the ultimate truth.
                      Regarding fakes (flaming "Asama") and hallucinations (sunken destroyers) - in the reports of Rudnev with Grammatchikov in bulk.
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Given the fact that Grammatchikov apparently mistook Yakumo for Asama,

                      Dear Andrew,
                      trolling is not my role, but it begs to ask (taking into account your remark), do you not admit that Essen made a mistake in identifying the ship, mistaking Izumo for Mikasa? Look, Yakumo has three pipes, and Izumo has three pipes, Asam has two pipes, and Mikasa has too.
                      Grammatchikov was wrong, and Essen a living person, too, could have made a mistake.
                      If we proceed from the fact that Essen is a true person, then the assumption that he was tritely mistaken puts everything in its place.

                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      according to your scheme, asama at least twice, or even three times, turned away from Askold's course. I would say it happened in 18.40, 19.07 and possibly around 19.40

                      Dear colleague, what gave you reason to draw such a conclusion?

                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Novik couldn’t be in such a position, for this he had to be completely out of the place where he was actually at the time the battle began.

                      And where, from your point of view, was he? If you have a domestic image of the scheme with the position that Novik occupied at the beginning of the battle, I am ready to consider it with interest and compare it with a similar Japanese one. On several maps, the Japanese have marked the anchorage of Russian ships at the beginning of the battle.
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        26 December 2018 08: 57
                        0
                        Quote: Comrade
                        It happened, dear colleague, and you do not need to go far for examples.

                        Alas, the examples are not the most revealing
                        Quote: Comrade
                        Judge for yourself, we have data from Japanese observers who counted shells from the Varyag's cellars, and there is a report from the Varyag commander.

                        That is, we have data from the Japanese, who, having lifted the cruiser, had the opportunity to calmly count the shells and there are data from Russian officers who were in a frantic time pressure and for whom the exact number of shells in importance was in the 150 place.
                        Quote: Comrade
                        We have data from Japanese observers who counted shells from the Eagle's cellars, and there are memories of Kostenko.

                        Yes - but if we forget that Kostenko is not a sailor at all, he is a shipbuilder and yesterday’s student. And that he was limited in movement, he wrote many things with someone’s words, it is unclear how understood.
                        In addition, memoirs and reports are not the same thing. And yet - it feels like Kostenko is just a pathological liar, it happens.
                        But blaming other Russian officers because of this is like saying: "Andrei from Chelyabinsk always lies, because Kolya is a passer-by, and they are both Russians."
                        Quote: Comrade
                        The Japanese could be mistaken, the Russians could be mistaken, nevertheless, when you need to know how many of these ships fired shells, the data is taken from the "Top Secret History" and compared with the standard ammunition

                        True, but why? Because the Japanese had the opportunity to deal with this issue more precisely than our officers, that's all.
                        Quote: Comrade
                        It turns out that the aforementioned officers have no faith, and "Top Secret History" is the ultimate truth.

                        Why not? As for any eyewitness, there is something, something is not, you need to understand what issue the person had the opportunity to understand, and which is not.
                        We do not believe the report of Murakami, in the part where he describes the fire in Koreets. We do not pay attention to the place in Rokuro's report, where he writes that the Varyag sank from the hits of Japanese shells - we know for sure that he was sunk by opening the Kingston. And also, dear colleague, we have official reports from the Japanese, in which, for example, the commander of the Chiyoda desperately retouches the problems with the running gear of his cruiser, and the destroyer commanders, if my sclerosis is not lying to me, drowned a Varyag or a Korean with mines - I remember you wrote about it.
                        In other words, there are enough inconsistencies and mistakes in the Japanese reports, but we don’t blame them all together in a lie and do not say that the Top Secret story is completely false. But this is exactly what you are doing in relation to the Russian sailors.
                        Quote: Comrade
                        Regarding fakes (flaming "Asama") and hallucinations (sunken destroyers) - in the reports of Rudnev with Grammatchikov in bulk.

                        Yeah. And in Rokuro's report we have 3-4 six-inch shells, at 12.41 at the same time hitting the center of the Varyag's hull, although there is no damage even for one. So what if we write Rokuro into the note-book deceivers? :))))) That is, we have facts when the Top Secret History refutes not only Russian, but also Japanese reports. But for some reason this is not a reason for you to accuse all Japanese of lying.
                        Only a small number of reports of Japanese commanders are available to me, but even in them, if you look impartially, there is everything that you attribute exclusively to Russian commanders.
                        Quote: Comrade
                        Dear Andrew,
                        trolling is not my role, but it begs to be asked (taking into account your remark), and you do not admit that Essen was mistaken with the identification of the ship

                        And where does trolling? Quite a sane question, I thought about it. But here's the thing - on Askold they saw the opposing BRKR and decided that it was Asama, although it was Yakumo. The mistake is more than excusable - the visibility was obviously not so hot, if you remember how many mistakes were made on the ships of the Russian squadron when classifying Asama. - who saw Yakumo, who - Iwate, who - generally one of "Itsukushim". And this is obviously a mistake - there was no point in lying to the battleship commanders.
                        However, in the case of Mikasa, it was difficult to make a mistake in that he walked in the lead, had the flag of the commander, etc., that is, there was enough evidence that this was Mikasa - in addition to the silhouette. So no, Essen could not be mistaken.
                        Quote: Comrade
                        Dear colleague, what gave you reason to draw such a conclusion?

                        Dear colleague, now you don’t think it is trolling, but the basis is the section of the circuit that you quoted, which I published in the commentary. Perhaps I didn’t understand something in your question or in the diagram you cited? I simply correlate the Askold and Asama courses on the diagram, there are three Asama lapels away from the Askold course, you yourself have kindly indicated the time at these points. If I'm wrong - I ask you to clarify what, I really do not understand.
                        Quote: Comrade
                        And where, from your point of view, was he? If you have a domestic image of the scheme with the position that Novik occupied at the beginning of the battle, I am ready to consider it with interest.

                        Please

                        As a matter of fact, Novik was at his regular parking lot marked here before lifting anchor and going to the aid of Boyarin
                      2. Comrade
                        Comrade 27 December 2018 02: 10
                        0
                        Dear Andrew,
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        there is data from Russian officers who were in a frantic time pressure and for whom the exact number of shells in importance remained in the 150th place.

                        Frankly, you have not convinced me. It is difficult to imagine that the senior artillery officer of the Varyag, Lieutenant S. Zarubaev, did not care how many shells were fired during the battle. He had plenty of time to find out, especially since even the English Russophobes write that there was no panic on the cruiser. So what prevented him from giving the order to provide the relevant information?

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Kostenko is not a sailor at all, he wrote many things with someone’s words, it’s not clear how they understood them.

                        Dear colleague, in the Orel, in preparation for the resumption of the battle, we checked the presence of the remaining ammunition. Who checked? Obviously not Kostenko, but the numbers, mind you, are named with an accuracy of one, no rounding, moreover, the types of shells have also been specified. It turns out even worse, it was not even Kostenko who lied, but the senior artillery officer who underestimated the available ammunition load.
                        Why did he do this, I personally found the answer for myself.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        We do not believe the Murakami report, in the part where he describes the fire on the Korean. We do not pay attention to the place in the Rokuro report, where he writes that the Varangian sank from hits of Japanese shells

                        Dear Andrey, reports are one thing, but the official point of view is another. Can you in the "Description of Military Operations" find information about the fire on the "Koreyets" or about the "Varyag" sunk by Japanese shells?
                        But in the official Work of the Historical Commission for describing the actions of the fleet in the war of 1904-1905 at MGSH, we see Asama blazing in two battles and further down the list.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Maybe I didn’t understand something in your question

                        Dear colleague, it is not clear how you determined the location of "Askold" in 18.40, 19.07, and possibly around 19.40 ?

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You are welcome. As a matter of fact, Novik was at his regular parking lot before being anchored and going to the aid of Boyarin

                        Dear Andrew,
                        it will not be said in reproach, but the image quality of the diagram you presented is such that I found the parking lot of "Novik" not without some effort, and the numbers are hardly visible.
                        Togo, according to the "Description of military operations at sea", gave the order to turn left in 12:20. The time difference there was 55 (fifty five) minutes, then Japanese time 12:20 corresponds to Russian time 11:25.
                        And on the diagram, we see that the distance between the Novik and the line of movement of the Japanese squadron was 15 (fifteen) cables per 11:40 (eleven hours forty minutes) in Russian time, or 12:35 (twelve hours thirty five minutes) in Japanese time.
                        As you can see, deeply respected colleague, the ends do not make ends meet, it is impossible for Novik to approach him by 15 cables in a quarter of an hour after turning Mikasa. Let's not forget that Togo was walking at a speed of 16 (sixteen) knots, and where he was in 11:40 (eleven hours forty minutes) in Russian time, or 12:35 (twelve hours thirty five minutes), according to Japanese time, you can imagine in the diagram.
                        If you will, dear Andrey, please. I’ve been sleeping for five hours the second week, all the time at work or on the way there / back, so I could have been mistaken with the numbers. If something is wrong, please do not judge strictly.
                        PS
                        Theoretically, the "Schematic battle plan" was drawn up, including and from the words of eyewitnesses who saw everything with their own eyes. Nevertheless, the turn of the 1st combat unit is presented there as a turn "all of a sudden", which we obviously do not see in the Japanese diagrams.
                      3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        27 December 2018 18: 43
                        0
                        Greetings, dear Valentine!
                        I sadly say that I can not agree with you on any statement made by you. But a big answer is required, and today I just will not have time to write it (although I have already begun). Therefore, I will answer you tomorrow night, but for now, let me email you. mail you a scheme in a more sane form. I somehow looked through the fact that after the calculation in the comments, they greatly decreased in size.
                      4. Comrade
                        Comrade 28 December 2018 05: 26
                        0
                        Hello, dear Andrey!
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I sadly say that I can not agree with you on any statement made by you.

                        Well, this is not the first, and probably not the last case. when our opinions do not coincide with you.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But a big answer is required, and today I just will not have time to write it (although I have already begun).

                        Dear colleague,
                        I ask you to understand me correctly and not to consider it impolite. I can hardly even have the opportunity to read your answer, not to mention the reaction to it. The tension at our work reached its maximum, tomorrow and the next days we have to get up at three in the night, and go to bed as early as possible. Alas, this is not up to the forum.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In the meantime, let me forward by email. mail you a scheme in a more sane form.

                        Thank you, I looked at the schemes, I will not hide, I was glad that my vision still doesn’t fail.
                        Spread a fragment of one of the Japanese schemes. It does not make sense to fully upload them here; you yourself see what comes of it.
                        The fragment indicates the exact location of "Novik" at the beginning of the battle - namely there, and not to its usual place came "Novik" after the pursuit of Japanese destroyers.
                        You probably will not agree with this, and there is no point in arguing for us in this situation. But in order not to look like an inadequate Russophobe in your eyes, I'll just write why I agree with the Japanese map and disagree with the "Eberhard scheme".
                        In "Top Secret History" in one of the sections there are several dozen diagrams and tables related to the battle of Port Arthur. Several of them, taken by observers from different ships, contain information about the whereabouts of the Russian ships. On one diagram, all ships are identified, on the other, only a part, and so on.
                        But on all The Novik was identified in the diagrams, and in all the diagrams made, I repeat, by observers from different Japanese ships, it is located in the same place.
                        One can argue that there was a mistake, and the Japanese were unanimously identified. This version could have a chance at life, if not for one "but". The observer from "Fuji" did not designate the Russian ships with a drop-shaped silhouette, as the others did, but painted them.
                        The Novik has a distinctive silhouette, and it is impossible to confuse it with another ship.
                        Now about what is shown in the attached picture. It consists of fragments of two schemes. The first one, made by an observer from "Fuji", shows the very painted Russian ships. Slightly below - the image of "Novik" enlarged several times (from the same diagram, the red arrow indicates where the same image of "Novik" is located in its original size). As you can see, this is indeed Novik. Two pipes, then a mast, then a third pipe - you can't confuse.

                        Consequently, the Japanese observers from the ships of the United Fleet approaching Port Arthur - I draw the conclusion - did not identify themselves, they really saw Novik.
                        Below, in a red frame, continued. The Togo squad completed the turn, “Novik” made a move and went on a parallel course. Later, he will turn south and approach the 2nd Combat Unit.
                      5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        28 December 2018 19: 57
                        +1
                        Greetings, dear colleague!
                        Quote: Comrade
                        I can hardly even have the opportunity to read your answer, not to mention the reaction to it.

                        BUT! So it’s not a question, a discussion, it is like wine, the more mature, the more interesting :))))
                        To be honest, I am also not much in a hurry - there are an enormous amount of problems. Therefore, let's return to this issue after the New Year (Happy New Year! hi ) - I still want to answer all your arguments, including your last comment.
                        The answer would be more complete if you thought it possible to present the full map of the January 27 maneuvering in Japanese execution - so it would be easier for me to understand where they burst :))))
  10. venik
    venik 22 December 2018 15: 59
    +2
    To the author - a HUGE "+" (could have put 10-20 - put !!!)
    With great pleasure I read the WHOLE series of articles (I look forward to continuing !!) It seems like "nothing new" ... But EVERYTHING is so SUCCESSFULLY put together, SO competently ANALYZED! That reads - "excitedly" !!!!
    I'd like to "to push The author "to the continuation and end of the theme of" Novik "(one of the most UN-ORDINARY ships of the Russian fleet at the turn of the 19-20 centuries) and his" sisterships "(" Pearls "and" Emerald "or" pebbles ", as some call them), but and to FURTHER research on "armored" cruisers of the Russian Fleet of this period !!!
    That would be PERFECT !!!
    It remains - to WAIT and HOPE !!!
    And to the author - good (drinks - the last - "optional"! bully )
  11. kvs207
    kvs207 22 December 2018 17: 39
    +1
    Quote: Potter
    Novik is an iconic ship of the Russian fleet. Such a short and such bright life was destined for him.

    You forgot about the footnote - as part of the Russian fleet.
  12. Potter
    Potter 23 December 2018 22: 05
    0
    By the way, no one mentioned what response was caused by the appearance of Novik in the fleets of the world. But, in fact, imitation and repetition of the type.
    Great Britain - from 1904 to 1913, 19 ships of the types Topaz (4 units), Forward (8 units), and Bodicea. And if the cruisers of the Topaz type - speed 22-23 knots, 12x102mm, then the others - the same 25 knots and 9-10x102mm, with a displacement of 2800-3800t. The mission of the Forwards is, first of all, the leadership of destroyers.
    In Germany in 1904-7 there were 7 Bremen-class cruisers, 23 knots, 10-105mm, 3500-3800t. In speed they did not reach Novik.
    s.s 27,5 knots could be given with steam engines of 25000 hp. Nothing would be left for armament. This is already a speed for the turbine era.
  13. Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 23 December 2018 22: 50
    +1
    At the same time, the nature of the damage is more likely indicative of a 120-152-mm caliber projectile - recall that getting below the waterline in the Retwisan squadron battleship of a 120-mm projectile led to the formation of a hole with an area of ​​2,1 square meters, that is even more than Novik’s. At the same time, an eight-inch projectile should have left behind more significant damage: for example, hitting a 203-mm projectile on the Varyag deck caused a hole of 4,7 sq.m. So if Novik had armor broken, it would be unconditionally accepted that a 203-mm projectile hit the cruiser, because it is unlikely that the 152-mm armor-piercing shell was able to "overpower" the 50-mm armor bevel, even at those short distances where the battle was going on, but the 203 mm was quite capable of it. But, apparently, the armor wasn’t beaten, so it cannot be ruled out that a six-inch shell from one of the Japanese battleships or armored cruisers hit the Novik.

    A lot of letters but it is not clear what. Where did the armor piercing come from? He would have left a round hole on the outside. Why 120 mm and what do you dislike about 8 "? In general, the length is typical for an 8" high-explosive and vice versa, 120 mm could not leave such a long gap even with a tangential impact, and even more so destroy three cabins inside plus disrupt the Kingston by a shock wave.

    By the way, an interesting question. Why the flooding of the cartridge cellar led to the flooding of the steering compartment. And there were no one to close the waterproof doors?
  14. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 24 December 2018 12: 41
    0
    during one of the training firing carried out by him during the transition to the Far East, shots of a bow gun deployed at 125 degrees. in the stern, led to the fact that the wires of the electric steering wheel passing in the armored pipe ... broke

    Curious fact Andrey - we accumulate statistics :)
  15. ser56
    ser56 24 December 2018 16: 39
    0
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Yet Essen IMHO was absolutely right. The situation is critical, we are being attacked, the squadron has not relieved the anchor, in general, the time has come for serious measures and non-trivial decisions :))))

    1) To the madness of the brave we sing a song ... bully However, the question arises - how or how could Novik stop the enemy squadron? Only a mine attack or a ram ... bully
    2) Novik was lucky - the consequences of the attack could be more serious ...
  16. Oleg Kolsky 051
    Oleg Kolsky 051 24 December 2018 22: 44
    +1
    Goodnight.
    Looking at the photo of "Novik" another question comes to mind. Is the fact that the mast is located immediately behind two chimneys is a serious design flaw? And is it really in the "nest" on the mast when the cruiser went against the wind?
  17. PPD
    PPD 15 March 2019 18: 34
    0
    You are now considering the fighting and the commander ..............
    But I always felt sorry for the cruiser as a living being -------------
    eh how many useful things he could create ... and he died in the color of years. Sorry, very sorry, a beautiful car !!! recourse
    It was ......
    I always liked him-balanced .... beautiful