Military Review

The encryption business of the Soviet Union. 3 part

35
Like many other pre-war theoretical developments of the leadership of the Red Army, the system of government communications in combat conditions did not show its best. In particular, HF communication lines were located near railways and highways, which were among the enemy’s priority targets. A massive artillery strike or airstrike destroyed both the road and the secret communications lines. Negative impact on the survivability of government communications and the almost complete lack of backup, bypass, ring and rokadny lines that could help in critical moments. In addition, all the HF communications equipment was very cumbersome and was located in the administrative buildings of the NKVD in large settlements, which often came under the priority blow of the Germans. There was no need to talk about any mobility of communication even between the High Command, the General Staff and the front staffs.


And how did communications function at the level of division commanders? It was assumed that the division commander of the Red Army in a combat situation should look for the nearest settlement with a good HF communication node. Next, he sends a messenger to the "subscriber", for example, the regiment commander with instructions to find a HF communication node nearby. The speed of making decisions and their execution suffered from such rushing. Such a situation could have been saved by the field means of encrypted communications, but, unfortunately, they were practically absent, and if there were, then the commanders of fronts and armies. Such a deplorable situation often led to the actual loss of command and control of the Red Army troops.

The encryption business of the Soviet Union. 3 part

Presumably one of the few photos of the C-1 "Sable-P"

1938 was started to solve this kind of problem when, in the laboratory of V. A. Kotelnikov, they began to develop the C-1 “Sobol-P” secret equipment. It was a very complex technique of HF radio telephony, in many respects it has no analogues in the world. Sobol-P used time and frequency permutations, and the telegraph tape with random perforations mentioned in other articles of the cycle was used as an encoder. Three months after the outbreak of war, the Kotelnikov team began the initial testing of individual components of the Sobol-P: a frequency inversion node with spectrum inversion, a time permutation node, a transmitter-based encoder node and a five-line perforated cable tape. It is noteworthy that in the course of such unique works almost every day new technical solutions were born, which needed to be fixed, published and patented. But in times of war, there was no time for this: everything in the laboratory was subordinated to the creation of a coder of telephone conversations of a new generation. Yes, and all the work was classified as a serious restriction of the dissemination of information.

In the book of Vadim Grebennikov “Cryptology and secret communication. Made in the USSR ”provides an example of the development of a temporary permutation node, which very clearly describes the difficulties faced by the developers. The node design consisted of two objects: a speech delay device for 100 and 200 milliseconds and a slow signal switching circuit that interchanged the 100 millisecond segments of speech. Engineers working with V. A. Kotelnikov considered several options for slowing down audio signals. In the first version, a rubber hose with a length of 33 meters was taken, a sound signal was sent to the input from the speaker, and at the output a microphone with an amplifier recorded sound deceleration for the required one hundred milliseconds. However, the awkwardness of such a performance expectedly put an end to the idea. In the second variant, it was proposed to use a Swedish narrow and thin enough steel tape for magnetic recording. Struggling with the dimensions of this design, the tape was pulled on the drum in the hope of ensuring a smooth joint. But everything was spoiled by a click that occurs when the joint passes through the sound pickup mechanism. Attempts to impose several turns of tape on the rim of the drum and record on the center of a multi-turn “winding” also did not give a good result, since the adapter, passing through the junction of two turns, created an interfering noise. With the third approach, the goal was to reduce the joints and repetitions of interfering clicks. Engineers used a long loop for this, which passed through many rollers. There was an inverse relationship between the length of the loop and the number of clicks - the longer, the less clicks. But everything rested on the bulkiness and serious noise that was generated by the moving steel tape - in the end, all the developments were shallows as unpromising. In the idea №4 in general, it was proposed to use ... a circular saw with a ground plane on which the information was recorded. Of course, all the teeth were previously removed. Everything in this version worked, there were no clicks, but the quality of speech left much to be desired. As a result, the disc was left, but they decided to write not on the plane, but on the rim. True, for the magnetic recording it was necessary to look for high-quality steel, which was found at the Sickle and Hammer enterprise in Moscow. These were the experimental brands EH-3A and EH-6A. Thus was born one of the complex nodes of the future phone encryption unit "Sobol-P". Engineering searches in the Kotelnikov laboratory clearly show at what level of engineering development the industry of the Soviet Union was at that time.

The first successful tests in real conditions C-1 "Sobol-P" was held on the radio telephone line Moscow - Khabarovsk. In a combat situation, the unique apparatus was tested on the communication line between the Supreme Command Headquarters and the headquarters of the Transcaucasian Front, since the wired high-frequency communication between them was broken during the fighting. It was “Sable-P” that for the first time transferred the connection of such a level from a wire base to a radio channel.


Medal of the Stalin Prize I degree, which was also awarded for the development of "Sobol-P". In 1943 and 1946

In 1943, Kotelnikov perfected his brainchild, produced at a plant in Leningrad. The head of the laboratory repeatedly flew into the blockade city to set up production on the spot, while his plane regularly came under fire. The Sobol-P equipment was actively used during the preparation of the Battle of Kursk and during the battle itself, which largely determined the victory on this sector of the front. The Germans, until the very end of the war, could not reveal the principle of operation of Kotelnikov’s encoder. And, according to Soviet intelligence, Hitler has repeatedly said that he would give the three best divisions of the Wehrmacht for one cryptanalyst capable of hacking the “miracle Sable”.

Such design successes could not pass by the leadership of the USSR, and in March 1943 of the year V. A. Kotelnikov, D. P. Gorelov, I. S. Neiman, N. N. Naidenov and A. M. Trakhtman received the Stalin Prizes of the first degree. All the money received by the engineers was traditionally handed over to the troops, and a tank was collected for the Kotelnikov award.


The "live broadcast" for Moscow from the signing ceremony of the act of unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany was conducted by C-1 "Sobol-P"

Until the very end of the war, "Sobol-P" was used on all fronts to organize communications with the High Command of the Red Army. The Tehran, Yalta and Potsdam conferences also did not do without the encoder of the Kotelnikov team. Finally, the apotheosis of the Sobol-P apparatus’s career was in May 1945, when Moscow was in contact with Berlin during the unconditional surrender of Germany. Already after 1945, equipment was used on Moscow’s radio communication lines with European capitals. The potential for the modernization of the Sobol-P was so great that work on its refinement proceeded even after the end of the hostilities of World War II, and in 1946, the entire engineering team was reassigned with the Stalin Prize of I degree.

The outcome of the work on the subject of secret telephony in the USSR before 1946 was a huge amount of development work, which later became the foundation for deeper research. In addition, valuable services and troops gained valuable experience in the operation and maintenance of such equipment, which had a positive impact on further developments. And finally, the first teams of professionals emerged from which large organizations producing world-class cryptographic equipment will grow in the future.

To be continued ....

Based on:
Babash A.V., et al. On the Development of Cryptography in the 19th Century // Information Security, #5, 2003.
Astrakhan V. I., Gusev V. V. Formation and development of government communication in Russia, 1996.
Astrakhan V.I., Pavlov V.V., Chernega V.G. Governmental Telecommunications stories Russia. Part of 1, 2001.
Klepov A. Information weapon Stalin.
Vadim Grebennikov. Cryptology and secret communication. Made in USSR.
Author:
Photos used:
aloban75.livejournal.com, wikipedia.ru
Articles from this series:
The encryption business of the Soviet Union. 1 part
The encryption business of the Soviet Union. 2 part
35 comments
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  1. XII Legion
    XII Legion 14 December 2018 06: 23
    +7
    Information protection, especially of strategic importance, archival business.
    So let's see how it was implemented.
    Thank you!
  2. Bongo
    Bongo 14 December 2018 06: 32
    +11
    The article is interesting, but not without controversial issues. Especially it amused:
    And, according to Soviet intelligence, Hitler has repeatedly said that he would give the three best divisions of the Wehrmacht for one cryptanalyst capable of hacking the “miracle Sable”.

    Dear author, probably this was overheard by the Soviet intelligence officers who were among Hitler’s headquarters among the highest generals? Why these fantasies? It is not necessary to publish information, the accuracy of which is not able to confirm.
    1. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 14 December 2018 07: 11
      +8
      Sergei, do not judge the author strictly. He has nothing in his hands even for "official use"; he has to use only very open things. But there are also many interesting details - for example, about a hose, a tape and a saw ...
  3. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 14 December 2018 07: 06
    +6
    Presumably one of the few photos of the C-1 "Sable-P"
    This is an ordinary telephone set for field wire communication according to the principle known to everyone who served in the army TA-57 (tapik). It could of course be used in any hardware set of ZAS, but it could equally be used by any field communicator "with a coil". It resembles the TA-43, but most likely some kind of imported model.
    1. thinker
      thinker 14 December 2018 09: 02
      +4
      Absolutely, he is TAI-43. In the bakelite case, it was produced after 1947.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 14 December 2018 11: 20
        +4
        But you must admit elegant execution ... In the war, such a tapik could only be made by special order, but even that is unlikely - rather an imported sample. I had two of them in the textolite corps in 03 in the platoon - by the way, the strike was not held at an example of 57m - only there was no GABok, but the Krons in principle managed to 6-7 km (if fresh). And the difficulty in determining the brand is due to the fact that the tapik is a simple thing (battery, handset, call, etc.), that they could not have pronounced features - everything had come to an optimum by then
    2. Bongo
      Bongo 14 December 2018 11: 04
      +3
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      This is an ordinary telephone for field wired communication according to the principle known to everyone who served in the army TA-57 (tapik).

      Moreover, the author certainly underestimates the dimensions of the communication equipment in which the amplifiers were built on vacuum devices. In addition, I have great doubts about the possibility of transmitting "closed" speech information during the war years by radio. Even the T-217, which appeared in the second half of the 60s and was built on transistor modules, when working on the HF channel, was far from perfect in terms of speech intelligibility.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 14 December 2018 11: 26
        +4
        Sergei, I say again that the author swung at a topic that was poorly lit for obvious reasons. There is a lot of material about foreign technology of this kind. but not really about ours. This is due to the traditions of secrecy, and to be honest, even in the early 00s there were a lot of equipment of this segment in the troops. I won't talk about now, but knowing our reality ... The "narrowest" places have the best cover, and the periphery ... sometimes it's funny and sad. And the author is clearly not special .. or encrypted.
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 14 December 2018 11: 48
          +3
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          Sergey, once again I say that the author has threatened a topic that is underlighted for obvious reasons.

          I would not have taken up this topic for these very reasons. Let's see what kind of technology the author comes to.
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          even at the start of the 00x there were a lot of vehicles in this segment in the military.

          I don’t know, our Elbruses left at the end of the 90s.
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 14 December 2018 12: 19
            +1
            Quote: Bongo
            I don’t know, our Elbruses left at the end of the 90s.
            Reply

            Eh Sergei ... you have not been to the US in the provinces .. I will not tell you, but there was a technique of "past years", although it quite fulfills its functions. In general, I think that soon the use of technologies of the mid-20th century will again come into vogue - as they say now about the return of guns. Machine coding is not always at its best now, but soon (with the development of "super decoders") it will only be a competition for "supernatural" computers (forgive me - firstly I don't know who I am dealing with, and secondly, even "knowing" anything interesting to you I will not tell hi ) But I think that soon (I think twenty years at most) illogical codes of a human invention will come into fashion and this will be connected with AI
            1. zyablik.olga
              zyablik.olga 14 December 2018 12: 28
              +2
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              Eh Sergey ... you have not been to the CSS in the province ..

              Sorry to interfere, but there have been ... Seryozha and I just met at the communication center.
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              even "knowing" I will not tell you anything interesting

              This is correct, on some topics, even if this equipment has already been written off it is better not to spread.
              1. KVU-NSVD
                KVU-NSVD 14 December 2018 13: 13
                +2
                Quote: zyablik.olga
                Quote: KVU-NSVD
                Eh Sergey ... you have not been to the CSS in the province ..

                Sorry to interfere, but there have been ... Seryozha and I just met at the communication center.
                Quote: KVU-NSVD
                even "knowing" I will not tell you anything interesting

                This is correct, on some topics, even if this equipment has already been written off it is better not to spread.

                Therefore, I pretend sometimes, but give a discount for ten years ... but I’m unlikely to write anything after that either. excuse me .. the topic is .. and sometimes I want to
              2. ccsr
                ccsr 14 December 2018 13: 19
                +1
                Quote: zyablik.olga
                This is correct, on some topics, even if this equipment has already been written off it is better not to spread.

                Does it bother you that all this equipment, which ended up on the territory of the former Soviet republics after the collapse, including in Ukraine, has long been handed over to American and other special services?
                1. KVU-NSVD
                  KVU-NSVD 14 December 2018 14: 39
                  +2
                  The equipment, as such, "tells" a little ... although it does tell something.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 14 December 2018 21: 20
                    +2
                    Quote: KVU-NSVD

                    The equipment, as such, "tells" a little ... although it does tell something.

                    Well, where have you seen military equipment without technical documentation? And the knowledge of those who served it and became ukropatriotom ready to sell to Americans for ideological reasons?
                    1. zyablik.olga
                      zyablik.olga 15 December 2018 01: 37
                      0
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Well, where have you seen military equipment without technical documentation? And the knowledge of those who served it and became ukropatriotom ready to sell to Americans for ideological reasons?

                      In one report in 2015 on central TV, they showed a Ukrainian military base occupied by our marines in Crimea. And the operator filmed in sufficient detail the "special communication" equipment, which is still in operation in Russia. Frankly speaking, I did not think that this would be shown. Apparently, the TV people themselves did not understand what they were filming.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 15 December 2018 18: 07
                        0
                        Quote: zyablik.olga
                        Frankly, I didn’t think that they would show it.

                        Never mind - everything that was in the arsenal of the Ukrainian army has long been known in Russia, as well as the fact that they all surrendered it to the Americans with giblets. So to hide from television what was already known to the interested NATO structures simply did not make sense. Well, we must remember that a serious technique is designed so that it is always assumed that the enemy already has it, and the key to safety is to change keys - this is the alphabet for the creators of such products.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 14 December 2018 12: 01
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        In addition, I have great doubts about the possibility of transmitting "closed" speech information during the war years by radio.

        I was also greatly alarmed, especially given the fact that we are apparently talking about the HF range. What kind of intelligibility was there, especially when working with a huge number of radio stations, one can only guess, but I think that all participants in the discussion used foul language about communication.
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 14 December 2018 12: 05
          +3
          Quote: ccsr
          I was also greatly alarmed, especially given the fact that we are apparently talking about the HF range. What kind of intelligibility was there, especially when working with a huge number of radio stations, one can only guess, but I think that all participants in the discussion used foul language about communication.

          It is not a matter of the number of radio stations on the air, although they of course can interfere with each other. For transmission of even "non-closed" speech, a wider bandwidth is required than when operating on a key. The modulated signal must be powerful enough, in addition, when working between two sets of "special" communication, it is necessary to synchronize them.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 14 December 2018 12: 40
            +3
            Quote: Bongo
            For transmission of even "non-closed" speech, a wider bandwidth is required than when operating on a key.

            This is natural and understandable. But it must be borne in mind that in the development of speech secret equipment, one of the requirements would necessarily be its operation over existing communication channels using a standard frequency spectrum for telephone communication, both over wire lines and over radio channels. So the developers had to "fit" into the frequency range that was used at that time in communication systems, and in HF radio stations of medium and high power in particular, and it could not be otherwise.
      3. Fitter65
        Fitter65 14 December 2018 13: 12
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        when working on the HF channel, it was far from faulty in terms of speech intelligibility.

        Well, a lot here depends on the quality of the HF channel, and even on a simple crossover. How many times it happened that like the frequency response of the channel is normal, you hand over to the terminal, but it only takes a gurgle. On a stationary node, this is less common, but on the field, the cable between the station and the equipment room has lost its characteristics, it’s time to write it off a long time ago, and an order came to extend the service life and the cable went on another time to wind ... It was especially often at 90 early 2000s. Why is there a cable if the address table has been extended for several years by order, the radio year has passed, the TLG comes in, and by a new start ...
  4. ccsr
    ccsr 14 December 2018 12: 10
    +2
    Author:
    Evgeny Fedorov
    And how did communications function at the level of division commanders? It was assumed that the Red Army commander in a combat situation should look for the nearest settlement with a working unit of RF communications. Then he sends a messenger to the “subscriber”, for example, to the regiment commander with an instruction to find the RF communication node nearby. From such throwing, the efficiency of decision-making and their implementation suffered in full.

    The author here is escalating the situation, because it’s unlikely that the commander of the rifle division will speak with the commander of the rifle regiment during a battle, given the width and depth of the front occupied by the division. To do this, there are radio communications, which, with the skillful use of coding or encryption tables, are quite sufficient to control the battle, not to mention the fact that there are wired communication lines.
    As for communication with the higher command, the commander has a division communications chief who knows the organization of the division’s communications with the corps (army) and has an idea where the nodes with RF communications will be deployed.
  5. ccsr
    ccsr 14 December 2018 12: 46
    +3
    Quote: KVU-NSVD
    In the war, such a tapik could only be made by special order, but even that is unlikely - rather an imported sample.

    In the seventies I saw an American device, an analogue of our TAI-43, which was supplied by Lend-Lease. It did not look at all like that, and functionally it was more versatile - in addition to the MB mode, it had the Central Bank and automatic telephone exchange mode. Moreover, in terms of size, it was no more than ours, but the quality of execution was envy.
  6. Fitter65
    Fitter65 14 December 2018 13: 25
    +1
    Quote: ccsr
    it seems to be about the HF band. What intelligibility was there, especially when working with a huge number of radio stations, one can only guess, but I think that all the participants in the debate swore about the connection.

    Again, depending on the mode in which simplex, duplex, half-duplex, OK, in TLG mode, there is the order of the station (subscriber), the older station calls subordinates according to the order of priority, or by circular, but again, everyone answers according to the order if the older PCT is exchanging with one of the subordinates of the PCT then the rest are silent. It is briefly about working in a radio network. when organizing a TLF radio channel, only two PCTs operate on one radio direction, another pair is placed in the other direction. moreover, each radio direction has its own frequency schedule, operation mode, etc. The organization of a radio channel or radio direction, and even more so a closed one, is very different from conducting radio exchanges between tanks in a company, in a convoy on a march ...
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 14 December 2018 13: 51
      +2
      Quote: Fitter65
      It is briefly about working in a radio network.

      You forgot to take into account that the enemy has all your rules, and he can suppress all your networks and radio directions with his kilowatts while organizing his radio networks. I'm not talking about the fact that even those who are not fighting, such as neutral countries, can interfere with your networks due to the spread of HF radio waves.
      By the way, a great tragedy for our pilots during the Second World War was that they incorrectly chose the range for aircraft radio stations, which is why during the battle they often lost contact with their commanders.
      Quote: Fitter65
      The organization of a radio channel or radio direction, and even more so a closed one, is very different from conducting radio exchanges between tanks in a company, in a convoy on a march ...

      Naturally - on the march, you usually use the VHF band, not the HF band, in which only some on-duty receivers work.
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 14 December 2018 17: 47
        +1
        Quote: ccsr
        Naturally - on the march, you usually use the VHF band, not the HF band, in which only some on-duty receivers work.

        On the march VHF between the machines, and HF for communication with the control center.
        Quote: ccsr

        You forgot to take into account that the enemy has all your rules, and he can suppress all your networks and radio directions with his kilowatts while organizing his radio networks. I'm not talking about the fact that even those who are not fighting, such as neutral countries, can interfere with your networks due to the spread of HF radio waves.

        When organizing their networks, the enemy will not be able to crush your radio networks, firstly, each country has its own range in which it operates, its own frequency band for the military and others, and the enemy will not work at your frequencies, since you will interfere with his work . The same neutrals will not get into the frequency range reserved for another state. In your frequency range, the adversary will operate purely in order to interfere or suppress radio communications. But how to organize communication during the operation of suppression means, or more simply, electronic warfare means, is another question. Out of 32 years of service, I have been dealing with this issue for almost 28 years. Providing the CP of the division with communications both with subordinate units and with the higher command.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 14 December 2018 21: 36
          +1
          Quote: Fitter65
          On the march VHF between the machines, and HF for communication with the control center.

          In fact, on the march they observe the radio silence mode for stealth, and HF receivers work only for reception. But in certain cases, a two-way session of HF radio communication can be organized - that is how they were taught in Soviet times.
          Quote: Fitter65
          When organizing their networks, the enemy will not be able to crush your radio networks,

          Still how can it - our first EW radio divisions just appeared during the Second World War, when the OCHNAZ divisions learned with their transmitters to cause communication interruptions in the German networks.
          Quote: Fitter65
          military and other bands of their own,

          During the war this is not respected, and proceed only from the real situation.
          Quote: Fitter65
          The same neutrals will not get into the frequency range reserved for another state.

          They may not be useful, but those who fight can work in any range, often without even knowing who is using it. And it’s unlikely that the division’s communications chief will reckon with someone in a critical situation - naturally, given the distribution of frequencies for his troops. I’m not even talking about undercover stations - they generally have their own rules.
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 15 December 2018 01: 23
            +1
            Quote: ccsr
            And it’s unlikely that the division’s communications chief will reckon with someone in a critical situation - naturally, given the distribution of frequencies for his troops.

            There will be, there is a frequency schedule so he will sit in it, and he will not jump out of it without permission from a higher order from the range that is prescribed to him.
            Quote: ccsr
            In fact, on the march they observe the radio silence mode for stealth, and HF receivers work only for reception.

            I’ll tell you more, not only HF, but all receivers of any range are working on reception.
            During the movement of the column, communication within the column is organized using low-power PCTs with communication ranges up to a maximum of 4-6 km, a lot of them have appeared over the last 10 years, and more powerful PCTs are used for control. And this does not mean that the transmitter is constantly working on radiation. Do you know such a concept as a standby reception?
            Quote: ccsr
            our first EW radio divisions just appeared during the Second World War, when the OCHN divisions learned how to cause interruptions in their German networks with their transmitters.

            The fact of the matter is that they caused interruptions, but did not suppress radio communications, see the difference? I will talk about closer times. At one time, for operation of the P-409 RRS, the sub-band A and B was allowed, Part B was partially closed. So when the first mobile TLFs appeared, people walked around the clock with tubes at their ears, showing their coolness, but when I started working on my relay, all my cell phones were stuffed into ... pocket. Then the order came at what frequencies we can’t work on any way, and the mobile phones were pulled out of our pockets, but the NTV in the garrison didn’t look while working out tasks, then a paper arrived where subrange B was completely banned from working, only in wartime.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 15 December 2018 18: 00
              0
              Quote: Fitter65
              There will be, there is a frequency schedule so he will sit in it, and he will not jump out of it without permission from a higher order from the range that is prescribed to him.

              The enemy can also operate radio stations in this range, and they do not care that you work in it. So you will never succeed in avoiding enemy interference, no matter how you divide the range inside your troops during the war - this is the prose of life.
              Quote: Fitter65
              I’ll tell you more, not only HF, but all receivers of any range are working on reception.

              Why did you then tell us about the sessions with the control center?
              Quote: Fitter65
              During the movement of the column, communication within the column is organized using low-power PCTs with a communication range of up to a maximum of 4-6 km,

              Such radio stations for 300-350 km from the IL-20 are easily taken, not to mention the orbital grouping. So you really need to observe the radio silence mode in all ranges, and use completely different methods for communication if you want to keep your troops on the march.

              Quote: Fitter65
              The fact of the matter is that they caused interruptions, but did not suppress radio communications, see the difference?

              The difference between the communication technology of 1941-1945 and with modern electronic warfare, I apparently understand better than you. Our first radio divisions to suppress German communications appeared only in 1943, when they were transferred from reconnaissance units to an independent structure. They were just starting to learn, and you are trying to measure them with modern electronic warfare equipment. It is not correct.

              Quote: Fitter65
              In due time for work of RRS P-409

              At one time, I passed the test for work at this station, so I know how and who can be affected by military communications, so your example is not new to me.
              1. Fitter65
                Fitter65 15 December 2018 20: 11
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                The enemy can also operate radio stations in this range, and they do not care that you work in it. So you will never succeed in avoiding enemy interference, no matter how you divide the range inside your troops during the war - this is the prose of life.

                I will say one thing - you are a real sucker in this matter. Do not be offended, but this is a fact. Have you watched the movie "The Crew of a Combat Vehicle"? There is an episode where a German calls our tanker in the TLF mode for battle. YES? Well, the first German could NOT call ours for a simple reason, the Germans and ours on the receivers have different frequency grids. Stupidly speaking, the German works in the range that is given to Germany, and ours works in the range that is given to us. They just really could not clash ... I'll explain on my finger. If your transmitter works in the "hello goof" range, then the receiver that works in the "HEALTHY BROTHER" range will not even notice that you were doing something on the air. Do not be offended, but you are carrying such a "persimmon" here ...
                ] The enemy can also operate radio stations in this range, and they do not care that you work in it.
                What kind of bump does it work for him at a frequency that is known in advance that it will be hit by interference? You sometimes at least read Wikipedia from the beginning, otherwise you are carrying the real NUCKEY.
                Quote: ccsr
                Such radio stations for 300-350 km from the IL-20 are easily taken

                What radio stations are taken for 300-350 km? With what radiation power, and with what time on air (transmission work)? What range, and there are still a bunch of questions. You really need to tell me, a person who has served in communications units at 32 IAD for nearly 239 years. 83 BAA, 277BAP, do not draw hazel grouse on glass.
                Did you sort of pass the R-409 test there? And in which sub-band did the Il-20 (Dewdrop) work with the ground R-409, and to which antenna? I am silent about the range. Still like there was a RTR Il-22 plane? Although it may confuse. One with the other, but at one time he worked with both sides, though the equipment then was different for them.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 16 December 2018 17: 02
                  0
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  One thing I will say - you are a real sucker in this matter. Do not be offended, but this is a fact.

                  You are a typical hamlo - do not be offended.
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  There is such an episode where a German calls our tanker in the TLF mode for battle. YES? Well, the first German could not call ours, for a simple reason, the Germans and our receivers have different frequency grids.

                  The Germans could use our trophy stations - apparently this never occurred to you. By the way, due to the instability of the frequencies of our radio stations, in the HF band the Germans could hear our talks using their equipment. I’m not even talking about German radio scouts - they generally had equipment to track our radio stations .. Moreover, you are so illiterate that you don’t even know that German aircraft were installed on our planes, and for this purpose the mount was specially designed and adapters for this.
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  I'll explain it on my finger. If your transmitter works in the "hello goof" range, then the receiver that works in the "HEALTHY BROTHER" range will not even notice that you were doing something on the air. Do not be offended, but you are carrying such a "persimmon" here ...

                  You are just a miserable verbiage - how do you think the German radio scouts got into our networks? Or didn’t you hear about this, as well as about the fact that many of their troops served in their units, fluent in Russian?

                  Quote: Fitter65
                  What kind of bump does it work for him at a frequency that is known in advance that it will be hit by interference?

                  Who will devote it to what frequencies will be chosen by the protagonist to organize communications in wartime? Or do you measure everything only by peace agreements in the distribution of the frequency range between different countries?
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  You sometimes at least read Wikipedia from the beginning, otherwise you are carrying the real NUCKEY.

                  Read Wikipedia yourself - I already understood what kind of "specialist" you are in communication technology.
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  You really me, a man who served for nearly 32 years in communications

                  It doesn’t color you, because your pearls are surprising to me because gaps in knowledge are obvious
                2. ccsr
                  ccsr 16 December 2018 17: 24
                  0
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  And in which sub-band did the Il-20 (Dewdrop) work with the ground R-409, and to which antenna? I am silent about the range. Still like there was a RTR Il-22 plane? Although it may confuse. One with the other, but at one time he worked with both sides, though the equipment then was different for them.

                  In fact, the IL-20M is not the IL-22, and they have not only a different purpose, but different subordination. And the Il-20M worked on radio networks and radio equipment of the enemy, and not on its radio networks and radio relay stations. I have already reported on the detection range of such networks and devices earlier.
                  You could not work with the IL-20M, because it was part of the air squad of the OSN brigades, and did not obey the command of the Air Force, but the district intelligence chief.
                  And who is the goof here?
  7. Doliva63
    Doliva63 14 December 2018 21: 30
    +1
    Comment on such an article - you can get a deadline laughing But if in 2 words: ours were great! drinks
  8. hjvtp1966
    hjvtp1966 23 December 2018 20: 48
    0
    Quote: Doliva63
    Comment on such an article - you can get a deadline laughing But if in 2 words: ours were great! drinks

    Respect to the author again - substantively revealed the topic. A modest request ... Well done or ours ... everything is relative. Does the author have any plans to consider in parallel how this area developed in leading countries? Then it will be possible to judge in detail.
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 15 February 2019 21: 56
      0
      Unfortunately, Kotelnikov was not given the Nobel Prize. clamped bastards. And he is a genius. I still remember his interview for TV, when he said that for a real mathematician computers are unnecessary, just a table, a sheet of paper and a pencil.