Roscosmos will consider 4 version of super-heavy rocket

The Scientific and Technical Council (NTS) of the Roskosmos Corporation will consider the 4 version of the super-heavy launch vehicle and determine the priority, reports RIA News.

The selected carrier variant in the future will be used for flights to the moon.

According to the source agency, the meeting of the NTS on the subject of super-heavy rocket will be held approximately December 19. The meeting participants will consider four proposed options, of which one final technical design will be selected. In the future, it will be preliminary design.

The missile projects went to the 8 “finals” in December following the meeting of the Council at the Central Scientific-Research Institute of Mechanical Engineering, at which the working group presented its proposals.

The interlocutor clarified that today two options are considered to be priorities: the project of Energia corporation with 5 side and central unit based on the Soyuz-5 rocket (RD-171MB engines) and the Progress RCC project with 6-side units based on "Suz-5" and the central unit with an RD-180 engine.

By the spring, it is planned to prepare a feasibility study of the project, and in November 2019 of the year - to complete a preliminary design.

Earlier it was reported that the total cost of development of the rocket will be about 700 billion rubles. The carrier must be made in 2027 year, and its first launch is scheduled for 2028 year.

Comments

[Sands Careers General]

They are considering something for a long time, everyone cannot decide which pH to develop. Especially when you consider that the RD-171MV is not there yet.
Somehow you need to move, otherwise the Chinese and Yankees will overtake.

[Yves762]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

Something to consider for a long time

Well what are you ...
This is a tricky process - it will be agreed to whom to measure how much.
Measure seven times - cut one!, As they say ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Roscosmos will consider 4 version of super-heavy rocket

[maxim947]

Roscosmos will consider 4 version of super-heavy rocket

The article indicated only 2 options, where are two more?)) The Energia project has already been chosen as the main one, why are these intrigues and profanities of the competition?))

[Klaus]

It seems that the other options are associated with the Hangar 5 / 7V + kW. But there, with all the desire, super-heavy does not even smell.

[maxim947]

Maybe..

[astepanov]

Quote: Yves762

measure seven times - cut one!, as they say ...

Well, let's say that Roskosmos lives by the principle of "cut seven times and cut again as you eat." In my memory, after Energia, superheavy was taken at least ten times, each time receiving funding and eating it. But something else is strange. Not so long ago, with a breath of delight, they talked about the fact that a super-heavy carrier was not needed, since a megawatt electric transport system with a nuclear reactor was on the way. It was assumed that this tugboat could be taken out in parts by middle-class rockets and mounted in space, and there - even to the Moon, even to Mars, ten years of continuous operation, unattainable with "chemistry" speeds ... It was expected that in 2018 they the cooling system (and this is done), and at 19, preparations for testing the entire system will begin. Then why is money being allocated again for cutting Rogozin? And why, as reported on OTR, funding for the electric rocket was cut for 19 years? So you don't need a tug? Or do you need nothing at all, except for taking away the dough?

[Machito]

And why not 44 options?
Korolev did - Rogozin composes fairy tales.
Tired of listening to how spaceships plow the Bolshoi Theater.
Where is the result of the work?

[Vladimir Postnikov]

Quote: Bearded

Where is the result of the work?

Do you see the results of D. Rogozin's work? And the 2016 billion rubles allocated at the end of 50 for the serial production of the IL-114 is not the result? In less than six months, his son will head OJSC (PJSC) IL. Isn't that also a result?
Personally, I doubt that the serial IL-114 will ever appear. 20 pieces from the production stock purchased in Uzbekistan will appear, and they will be issued as a serial. And that’s it! And almost all of them will go to power structures. It's just that this is not what is required for the regional Russian runways, so carriers still refused this prospect in the 2014 year. Time will tell. The main thing here is not to forget. PR is a thin thing. D. Rogozin is a PR master.

[Machito]

The son of Rogozin in the chair of the director of PJSC Il is the main result of the activities of Dmitry Rogozin.

[Vladimir Postnikov]

But it was difficult for the Ilyushinites to object, if the boy was given a dowry only by IL-114 - 50 billions, not to mention other programs.

[Machito]

The dowry of the boy is folk money. Did we adopt him?

[Vladimir Postnikov]

No, we didn’t adopt him. But, in Russia today there is "sovereign" capitalism. Everything here belongs to someone, and is controlled by someone. The people here do not control anything. This is reality, alas!

[Awaz]

the master of Piar, is still Musk, but at least he has patrons with an infinite financial component. Rogozin - although he is trying to mow under the Mask, but in reality no one ... In Russian, this is not called PiAr, but it also starts on pi ...

[volot-voin]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

They are considering something for a long time, everyone cannot decide which pH to develop. Especially when you consider that the RD-171MV is not there yet.

By 2028, either the donkey will die, or the Shah)))) (according to H. Nasredin).
I’m not saying that you don’t need to do anything, but it's too long ..... During this time, you can cut the dough and dump ten times abroad, die and provide grandchildren.

[Ross xnumx]

Roscosmos will consider 4 version of super-heavy rocket

Why consider them - tea is not "men's magazines". It is necessary to do ...

[1810BM86]

Quote: volot-voin

By 2028, either the donkey will die, or the Shah)))) (according to H. Nasredin)

Or Hodge himself. Someone will surely die.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

Especially when you consider that the RD-171MV is not there yet.

Next year they promise to test

Fire tests of the first rocket engine RD-171MV, which the head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin called "Tsar Engine", are scheduled for 2019. This was announced by the head of NPO Energomash, which develops the product, Igor Arbuzov, in an interview with the Kommersant newspaper.

Although of course there is the possibility of a traditional jump to the right.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: General of the Sand Quarries

Somehow you need to move, otherwise the Chinese and Yankees will overtake.

The Chinese with their Changzheng9 are still far away, their forecasts of 2028-2030, we can confidently say that this is an unrealistic time for them.
And the prospects for Americans with SLS are rather vague. Overly expensive and as long.

[Henderson]

The first SLS manned mission is planned for the year 2023. The rocket itself is already in the final stages of assembly. But the Americans already have Falcon Heavy, and in addition to 2023, BFR is also planned.
In terms of time, under no circumstances will Roskosmos be able to overtake.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Henderson

The first SLS manned mission is planned for the year 2023.

There is a big obstacle to SLS, its price, it is really space. 500 million US dollars per launch is simply inhumane, especially against the backdrop of the SpaceX price tag. NASA's budget may not draw on the appetites of the ULA.

[Henderson]

Price yes. But this media has never been considered commercial. He will have one and a half dozen launches in the best case and that’s all. In addition, NASA is forced to maintain competition and not dump all its eggs in one basket. So then Delta 4 in comparison with Falcon does not stand up to criticism. And the price tag ..
But the fact is that there one way or another, but the matter is moving. And is in the stage of real production and testing.
But Roskosmos still has nothing to say besides statements.

[Victor_B]

Would already be sooner...
It's all about grandmas.
And where to get them? Well, a lot is needed to compete with the USA, China and the EU.
I think our brains are enough (for such and such ridiculous salaries), but the question arises longer: "What the hell is this even needed if there is no money for military and communications satellites?"

[Victor_B]

It would be nice to join forces with China, but it is painfully sensitive.
The Chinese brothers do not frown on technology soprut.

[Klaus]

And they stole a long time ago. What they stole, what they bought, what Ukrainians handed over to them. All that they need, they have already taken from us: both the Union and the technologies of orbital modules based on Salyut. China has ALREADY repeated the space program of the USSR until 91, including the lunar component. As for engines, they already have heptyl and oxygen-kerosene ones. The case for hydrogen and methane. And here we are now at approximately the same positions, BUT: given the dynamics of development and economic development, it is fair to assume that the Chinese will succeed much earlier.
And one more thing: a very sensitive area here is just for us, since we have big problems with the electronic element base. For the Chinese, this is where things are going much better, although not perfectly.

[max702]

Quote: Victor_B

It's all about grandmas.
And where to get them?

The budget has a surplus of 2.3 trillion rubles ... This is 35 billion \ dollars .. But you can’t invest them in the country, but you need the money of the enemy, and he carries out his projects on them .. That is, we finance the cosmonautics ..

[XXXIII]

Quote: Victor_B

"What the hell is this generally needed if there is no money for military and communications satellites?"

Yes, it’s just advertising from the part, they will fly like they flew, on those missiles that are already there and launch everything that is needed for the country, plus new developments must be nourished. Now Roskosmos will just reorient to domestic consumption, the military has long been asking for this, but civilians are waiting no less ...

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Victor_B

It's all about grandmas.
And where to get them?

We take a couple of deputies of the leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, conduct searches at the place of residence, in garages and finance flights to the moon. And for example, for flights to Mars, searches should be carried out by the leaders themselves.

[K-50]

the total cost of developing a rocket will be about 700 billion rubles

More than 10 yards of "cabbage"? Didn't you want too much?
After all, the main thing is the engines, and they have already been created, it remains to link and tie!

[igorbrsv]

... In the total amount, he included the creation of a 1000-ton RD-175 engine based on the 800-ton RD-170. In addition, funds will be required for the construction of a launch complex at the Vostochny cosmodrome, as well as the construction of an assembly plant for large-sized products for the production of rocket units and assemblies.

This was stated by a source in the rocket industry. for tass, Vedomosti.ru reported. The source was not disclosed. Roscosmos did not comment on the information. I guess no one asked
Personally, I won’t give my tooth for the reliability of these data.
Anything can happen, but your tooth is more expensive

[Roman070280]

Yesterday Macron promised on strike in France all sorts of goodies ..
The total load will be approximately equal to just 10 yards of eureka ..
I don’t remember everything, but the first point was to increase the minimum salary "only" by 100 euros .. well, plus a little something else ..

I think if we had raised a minimum salary of 8000 rubles in our country, there would have been more benefit to the people ... And that’s just with just one rocket !! Which hasn’t flown anywhere yet, and it’s not known whether it will fly at all ..

PS .. on Roskosmos alone it was possible to raise RFPs and pensions in the country quite well .. And if you start to count all our mega-projects .. Uuuuu ..

[astepanov]

Quote: Roman070280

I think if we had raised a minimum salary of 8000 rubles in our country, there would have been more benefit to the people ... And that’s just with just one rocket !!

Sucks think. Divide 10 lard by 4,9 million Russians who receive the minimum wage, but by 120 months — and if you don’t get a rocket faster — you’ll get 17 bucks a month increase, or 1122 rubles a month. What are 8 thousand?

[Roman070280]

But I didn’t count anything .. It is written above where all the data came from !!

And so everything is correct .. It was said about 10 yards a year .. and not for 120 months ..
And this is - from your calculations - as much as 11220 per month .. I will not double-check .. but it turns out that even in two you can immediately raise the minimum rate !! (and after it, everything else would have grown greatly)

And on the account of "120 months - and you can't make a rocket faster", personally, I am more inclined to believe that in 10 years (and you can take all 20 of Putin's) - such "missiles"
/ spaceports / aircraft carriers / pipelines / roads / Zolotov's sausages / Vasilyeva's paintings / Khoroshavin's pens / Gundyaev's hours / Skolkovo / ё-mobiles / iota-backgrounds / Olympics / washed-out stadiums, etc. (the whole list just this forum would not pull ) .. So, such "mega-projects" would be enough for much more than for each of these years ..

Threat .. I will not deny that some of the projects may have been merged and not in vain .. and I really respect the Rockets !! But .. 10% against the background of the rest dragged out of their pockets .. this is not the weather that we are waiting for ..

[Mr Credo]

Unclear news. NTS meeting. And before that, those issues were not considered? Sketch design! Pencil sketches? And in terms of time! This is either a donkey or a padishah will die by this time!

[depressant]

The main thing is the process! And so that it is as corrupt as possible. And to sit on the ground - "If you don't see - we are designing!" And whether it flies or not, and when it flies - it's the tenth thing, others will figure it out and others will turn it over to waste paper. As "Federation" ((

[Altona]

Quote: Mister Creed

Unclear news. NTS meeting. And before that, those issues were not considered?

------------------------
By the way, who sat on the Scientific and Technical Council? Surely only financial directors and, God forbid, one designer, and a bunch of all sorts of close nobles. Decided how to "cut the cow".

[Gardamir]

The good news is, while they consider, while they think. But to supporters of the best ruler, now you can shout about victories in space.

[XXXIII]

Quote: Gardamir

The good news is, while they consider, while they think. But to the supporters of the best ruler, now you can scream about victories in space.

PR is more expensive than money ....

[Samara_63]

So in RCC Progress frames are better

[prodi]

and what will it launch so necessary for Russia?

[depressant]

From what flies? Rogozin has a small assortment - only "ducks" ((The panorama of the New Year's table obscured space, everyone sees his own ((

[Engineer]

Why consider at all? There is no need for it from the word "absolutely". No lunar and other missions will be pulled by the Rogcosmos. The union did not pull the moon with all the might of its scientific and production potential. And now there is none of this. Therefore, it will be, if so, the same with Energy - there is a smart rocket, there are no tasks. The required new highly efficient missile to replace the outdated Union. Modular, of course, to replace both the Proton and light rockets.
#rogozinbatutmars

[Vadim851]

It is advisable to create media from scratch including engines. Batch, block systems are ineffective in terms of the ratio of payload / starting weight.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

make at least one, and after the presentation, arrange

[Hole puncher]

two options are considered priority: the project of the Energia corporation with 5 side blocks and a central block based on the Soyuz-5 rocket (RD-171MV engines) and the RCC project Progress with 6 side blocks based on the Suzyu-5 "And a central unit with an RD-180 engine.

But does Soyuz5 really exist?

[Jurkovs]

But does Soyuz5 really exist?

That is the whole point. Soyuz-5 is created for the possibility of creating super-power on its basis. Which option will be chosen, so will Soyuz-5.

[Henderson]

Soyuz-5 is created as a fully Russian copy of the Zenith. To replace the Protons and the failed Angara.
The very idea of ​​superthrust at this base can only be from hopelessness.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Henderson

Soyuz-5 is created as a fully Russian copy of the Zenith.

As a replacement, but not a copy

[Henderson]

It is that the copy, even the starting complex will be used the same, from Zenith. The only thing there was to increase the diameter of the steps to 4.1 meters, so that the equipment from Protons came up. Everything else is identical. From engines to control systems. Droselling was removed in the engines, in fact they were simplified and made cheaper. Due to this, thrust increased by several percent, which compensates for a slight increase in mass due to an increase in the diameter of the step.
In general, everything is competent, if you do not take into account that Zenit itself is also outdated.

[steelmaker]

I believe that we need space only for security. When the population in Russia is only declining, only smart people can talk about the moon. In 2018, the population decline amounted to 200 thousand people. For the rest of us, earthly wealth will last for 1000 years. AU! Government! It is necessary to raise the standard of living of our people, and not think about the moon!

[astepanov]

Quote: steel maker

I believe that we need space only for security. ... AU! Government! It is necessary to raise the standard of living of our people, and not think about the moon!

You - only for safety, and for many others - also for communication, television, geological exploration, meteorology, navigation, cartography, environmental monitoring ... When the first satellite was launched, they also saw only political benefit in it, but a lot came up. Those who do not care about their own science and technology with a long sight, are doomed to vegetation. If the USSR thought like you, then Hitler’s followers would rule the world, and Russia would rot in the Third Reich.

[Simargl]

Quote: steel maker

For the rest of us, earthly wealth will last for 1000 years.

Right!!!
Gobble up what is for 1000 years for 200 and finally return to the sources: stones and sticks.
Then the resources to the supernova Sun are enough.

[Flatter]

Space is ultra-pure materials for industry and medicine, unique alloys that cannot be obtained on Earth under gravity.

[prior]

Roscosmos will not calm down until it destroys the Russian space completely.

[vadimtt]

"Roscosmos will not rest until it destroys Soviet space finally "
Edited a little ...

[Salomet]

All "Angara", completely dead? It seems that the version of a heavy rocket was originally planned on it?
Sorry to see. In 20 years, no country will believe that we were the first to enter the space age.
Kills that again "Soyuz" all will pull, A new rocket is no longer able to create? This is despite the fact that the carriage of talented people in the country, but only they are headed by rams appointed from above.

[Klaus]

Hangar a5v / 5p was generally considered under the Federation. Well, as a replacement for Proton as well.

[Jurkovs]

Roscosmos will consider 4 options for a super-heavy rocket ...

And take the fifth. The one that proclaims TsiH, most likely Angara -5V.

[ruigat]

Yes, the oligarchy of the Russian Federation has ruined the world's most efficient launch vehicle Energia, and now it is inventing bicycles. At the exit, after 5 years, I hope the cartoon will still show. Okay, in the space race we will "root" for the PRC.

[Henderson]

Energy could hardly be called "the most efficient in the world." It was certainly a triumph for the Soviet Union. But with efficiency, everything was not very rosy.

[ruigat]

But with efficiency, everything was not very rosy.

What a fright? 4% of the mass at the IEO, with the prospect of bringing to 4,5%. Pledged reusability. Which pH is more effective?

[Henderson]

Firstly, there is no reusability. For two flights of Energy, they never planted anything.
Secondly, Energy at NOU is not capable of outputting anything at all, only a suborbital trajectory. The load had to do it on its own. Which ruined the apparatus of the Pole.
Third price. She is huge. Super expensive engines, liquid hydrogen, disposability, lack of delivery vehicles to the spaceport.
In commercial terms, this would be a complete failure.
Due to the impossibility of transporting large blocks by the way, Roskosmos has no other way out with superheavy, except to fence a freak out of 6 or more Soyuz-5 blocks. Which by themselves are copies of Zenith, which in turn is a side accelerator of the same Energy.

[ruigat]

Firstly, there is no reusability. For two flights of Energy, they never planted anything.

And the idol of many on VO Mask their Falcons, I suppose, immediately began to return?

Secondly, Energy at NOU is not capable of outputting anything at all, only a suborbital trajectory. The load had to do it on its own. Which ruined the apparatus of the Pole.

So this is the savings. So that the 3rd step is not stupidly thrown away. A huge 2 stage burns down so as not to clog the orbit.

Third price. She is huge. Super expensive engines, liquid hydrogen, disposability, lack of delivery vehicles to the spaceport.

And you wanted to deliver 100 tons to DOE for a penny? Garden plants to you then and now. Calculate the cost of both Saturn 5 and H-1.
Liquid hydrogen RDs are the best in terms of MD and only they, due to the cooling parameters, can work from start to exit to the NOO.

Due to the impossibility of transporting large blocks by the way, Roskosmos has no other way out with superheavy, except to fence a freak out of 6 or more Soyuz-5 blocks.

The oligarchy of the Russian Federation as a whole, and Roscosmos in particular, are successful ....... ... It would be better if they didn’t have the ability to steal, then there would have been enough Death Star.

[Henderson]

Quote: ruigat

And the idol of many on VO Mask their Falcons, I suppose, immediately began to return?

No, of course, he first built a special Grasshopper module for mining. But on energy, and this was not. The central most expensive hydrogen unit was not even intended to be saved theoretically.

Quote: ruigat

So this is the savings. So that the 3rd step is not stupidly thrown away. A huge 2 stage burns down so as not to clog the orbit.

the huge second stage burns down and takes with it 4 ultra-expensive engines. Together with the money swollen into it. Accordingly, the load needs its own booster block, which selects the mass from those same 100 tons, which is also irretrievably lost.

Quote: ruigat

Calculate the cost of both Saturn 5 and H-1.

calculate the cost of Falcon Heavy

Quote: ruigat

Liquid hydrogen RDs are the best in terms of MD and only they, due to the cooling parameters, can work from start to exit to the NOO.

according to UI, it may be the best, at the price and size of the tank, at the cost of starting - the worst. At the moment, it’s optimal methane.

[ruigat]

No, of course, he first built a special Grasshopper module for mining. But on energy, and this was not. The central most expensive hydrogen unit was not even intended to be saved theoretically.

Yah? And what about the development of the Energia launch vehicle - the Uragan launch vehicle?

calculate the cost of Falcon Heavy

Counted. In February 2018, Elon Musk announced that the cost of launching an expendable version of the Falcon Heavy is $ 150 million, and this is for 64 tons per DOE in a one-time option, and not for 100.

OIs may be the best, at the price and size of the tank, at the cost of launching - the worst. At the moment, it’s optimal methane.

Yeah, methane. Compared to kerosene gas, MI is several percent more, and the price and volume of the tank are hydrogen.

[Henderson]

Quote: ruigat

Yah? And what about the development of the Energia launch vehicle - the Uragan launch vehicle?

we here did not discuss paper projects like. On paper, Roskomos has been using the Lunar Base for three years now.

Quote: ruigat

And this is for 64 tons at the DOE in a one-time option, and not for 100.

Well, you can compare with the cost of launching Saturn 5 or the Shuttle. Yes, even with Delta-4.

Quote: ruigat

Yeah, methane. Compared to kerosene gas, MI is several percent more, and the price and volume of the tank are hydrogen.

But methane does not kill the engine and is very cheap. And these are the most important parameters for reusability and cheapening of launches.

[ruigat]

we here did not discuss paper projects like.

But on energy, and this was not. The central most expensive hydrogen unit was not even intended to be saved theoretically.

Yeah, if a gentleman doesn't like the rules, it's a rule problem. But not a garden plant like that.

But methane does not kill the engine and is very cheap. And these are the most important parameters for reusability and cheapening of launches.

And the hydrogen that releases water during combustion generally kills? Hydrogen engines are leaders in UI and a run-time parameter from all chemistry.

[Henderson]

Quote: ruigat

Yeah, if a gentleman doesn't like the rules, it's a rule problem.

discuss cartoons and paper is to Roskosmos.

Quote: ruigat

And the hydrogen that releases water during combustion generally kills? Hydrogen engines are leaders in UI and a run-time parameter from all chemistry.

And leaders in the high cost, cost of maintenance and the cost of the rocket itself with its cryogenic equipment.
In the same Falcon-9, the engine is worse in terms of UI and in other parameters than the RD-171. But it costs much cheaper, it is reliable due to its simplicity, it is reusable, it can be used immediately both on the first and on the second stage of the rocket.
Efficiency is ultimately determined by the ratio of costs to the result. And then, suddenly, hydrogen loses in general in all respects.
The result is that Russia with its unparalleled engines lost the commercial launch market. And this is where labor is several times cheaper than American.

[Klaus]

Well, that's enough for you :) There, up to 100 tons of payload in low reference orbits was displayed. For example, the same Buran, for which they sawed her. Here on the GSO, yes, there is an extra required. However, having the acceleration unit in the kit, it is possible to load at least on the GSO, at least to Mars, even to the Moon, and to calculate only a series of pulses in the Goman transitions.

[Hypersound]

I propose to immediately choose "Sarmat" and fly it to Washington

[Roman070280]

"The carrier is due to be manufactured in 2027, and its first launch is scheduled for 2028."

In short - none of us will live up to this ..

[AnderS]

What's again?!?!

[Hole puncher]

Quote: AnderS

What's again?!?!

You will laugh, but yes ....