Military Review

In the United States called the Russian fleet "green"

114
The Russian navy is becoming more “green water”, that is, a force capable of acting only in coastal waters, the magazine writes National Interest.




According to the author, the main problem for Russia is money. Their shortage does not allow the Kremlin to keep up-to-date modernization of obsolete ships and build new large ships.

After the flooding at the shipyard in Roslyakovo the largest floating dock PD-50, the problem with the modernization of Soviet warships will become even more complicated, the publication said.

According to the magazine, in the 2018, the Russian Navy purchased only 4 small warships. Currently, the Russian fleet has about 300 ships, most of which have a displacement of only a few tons. For comparison, the US Navy has about the same number of ships, but their total displacement is much larger.

Thus, the Russian Navy is increasingly becoming a “green-water” force intended for operations in the coastal zone, while the US and Chinese naval forces can rightly be called “blue water” forces capable of acting anywhere in the oceans, the material says.

Theoretically, Russia could build a new floating dock, design and build large warships. She has everything she needs, except money. Therefore, the ships being written off will continue to replace smaller ones.

It also remains unclear, as noted in the material, whether the Russian economy can withstand more than the short-term and partial modernization of its ships in the future, the paper concludes.

Recall PD-50 sank in late October, at this point it was a heavy aircraft carrier “Admiral Kuznetsov”.
Photos used:
https://bmpd.livejournal.com
114 comments
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  1. igorka357
    igorka357 10 December 2018 12: 33
    +30
    In the part of the surface, they are mostly right, but they only quietly kept quiet about the submarine fleet!
    1. Machito
      Machito 10 December 2018 12: 36
      -1
      Russia has a defensive doctrine, so the coastal fleet is more important for us.
      As the Cold War grows, a fleet of the far sea zone will be built.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 10 December 2018 12: 41
        +12
        Quote: Bearded
        Russia has a defensive doctrine, so the coastal fleet is more important for us.

        And they all think, let's go and see where our nuclear warheads have fallen, whether it’s for their goals ...
        By the way, we don’t remind you that there were no African-Americans at the court of King Arthur ... belay Or not poke them in the nose with the gray lunar surface. Our fleet is not "green-water", our economy is "green-dollar" ... request
        1. hrych
          hrych 10 December 2018 14: 41
          -3
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Our fleet is not "green-water", our economy is "green-dollar" ...

          By the way, they got rid of American securities, bought a coin for reserve. We have the main turnover with the EU and there we certainly work in euros. So, we agreed with the Chinese to trade in RMB, with the Indians in rupees, and with Iran in rials.
          Quote: igorka357
          only about the submarine fleet quietly silent!

          Quote: Bearded
          Russia has a defensive doctrine

          In addition to the defensive doctrine, the coastal fleet was also armed with powerful strike weapons, and the Caspian flotilla can shoot the Persian Gulf, the Suez Canal, etc. Well, to our nuclear submarine fleet, which is without a doubt very powerful, no doubt for the distant sea zone. So also our fleet was replenished with an intercontinental thermo-nuclear torpedo, which, in addition to special carriers, probably can be dropped from ships in the near zone, or even from rollers in general. So it is also under its own power from our swamps directly and to a place beyond the sea-okiyan. Therefore, green-water easily undermine their AUGs, their coastal cities, without leaving their green backwater wassat
      2. Every
        Every 10 December 2018 13: 45
        +24
        Quote: Bearded
        Russia has a defensive doctrine, so the coastal fleet is more important for us.

        And what is the connection between the coastal fleet and the defense doctrine? What is the relationship?
        The ocean fleet is also part of the defensive doctrine. For example: the BOD searched and escorted NATO submarines in the oceans and, if necessary, could destroy them if they were going to launch a nuclear strike.
        And if you follow your logic, then we do not need universal submarines (the Yasen project), because they are not coastal even once.
        As the Cold War grows, a fleet of the far sea zone will be built.

        The construction of the ocean fleet depends on the will of the country's leadership and financial resources. Now there is neither one nor the other.
        1. 2329 Carpenter
          2329 Carpenter 10 December 2018 13: 58
          -10
          And the doctrine of the use of the ocean surface fleet? It would be interesting to go over your eyes ...
          And what tasks do you see for this fleet?
          1. Every
            Every 10 December 2018 14: 34
            +3
            Quote: Carpenter 2329
            And the doctrine of the use of the ocean surface fleet? It would be interesting to go over your eyes ...
            And what tasks do you see for this fleet?

            You raised the question of the doctrine of application. You were asked a question. To answer the question with a question is ............, apparently there is simply nothing to say.
            The site has a whole series of articles devoted to the fleet and its applications. "A sad look at the future of the fleet" Andrey from Chelyabinsk. Everything is detailed there.
            1. 2329 Carpenter
              2329 Carpenter 12 December 2018 13: 39
              0
              Those. "Sad look ..." is a doctrine, and Andrey is its author?
              In World War II, the Soviet Navy and the German fleet had the same questions as they are now with the Russian fleet. So what? Did the Navy make a significant strategic contribution to the Victory?
              Or has "Graf Spee" cut off all British communications? ..
              The Germans, however, came to their senses, and showed how and what to deal with shipping. Until they were jammed by scientific and technological progress.
              How is the situation different now?
              1. Every
                Every 12 December 2018 14: 35
                0
                Quote: Carpenter 2329
                Those. "Sad look ..." is a doctrine, and Andrey is its author?

                What kind of nonsense?
                Unsuccessful attempt to rewrite words. You will breed schoolchildren for this (and I doubt it).
          2. Saburov
            Saburov 10 December 2018 19: 40
            +6
            Quote: Carpenter 2329
            And the doctrine of the use of the ocean surface fleet? It would be interesting to go over your eyes ...
            And what tasks do you see for this fleet?


            The thing is that our fleet cannot solve 5 of the main tasks of the fleet, as it would not sound paradoxical.

            1) the struggle against the naval forces of the enemy;
            2) violation of enemy marine communications;
            3) protection of its maritime communications;
            4) defense of its coast from a sea direction;
            5) striking and ensuring the invasion of enemy territory from the sea

            PS The cost of yachts of twenty Russian billionaires exceeds the cost of all ships of the Russian Navy built over the past 10 years. So shake it off.
            1. 2329 Carpenter
              2329 Carpenter 12 December 2018 13: 43
              0
              I don’t have a mustache. As I understand it, the key in your post is P.S.
              This is not new in any way, like crying over an unfortunate surface fleet.
        2. Tiksi-3
          Tiksi-3 10 December 2018 14: 10
          +1
          Quote: Every
          then we do not need universal submarines (the Yasen project), because they are not coastal even once.

          however, like the Boreas, although the boots here claim that they can be shot from the pier))) - it’s cheaper to build a mine
          1. Every
            Every 10 December 2018 14: 36
            0
            Quote: Tiksi-3
            however, like the Boreas, although the boots here claim that they can be shot from the pier))) - it’s cheaper to build a mine

            "Northwind" is a little different, these are strategists, they have a different task.
            1. Tiksi-3
              Tiksi-3 10 December 2018 14: 38
              +2
              Quote: Every
              "Northwind" is a little different, these are strategists, they have a different task.

              it is a fleet - and its task is to secretly in the oceans to occupy the area and strike ..... and this is no less in coastal waters
        3. hrych
          hrych 10 December 2018 15: 03
          -4
          Quote: Every
          And what is the connection between the coastal fleet and the defense doctrine? What is the relationship?

          And that is the connection that diesel submarines are being built in our country, and the Americans are not building them at all. Diesel boats fit into the defensive doctrine, and nuclear boats vice versa. The same naval formations, they build these around AUG, submarines provide anti-aircraft defense, anti-aircraft defense / missile destroyers, both have an attack function due to the Tomahawks. Our ships are armed with Caliber, but the PLO and air defense are supported on the shore, so we have a strong coastal missile defense and naval aviation. We create defense lines, and they are attacks. All the issues of working in the far zone, including the fight against the enemy’s nuclear submarines, are carried out by our nuclear submarines, and BODs have long been unable to pursue nuclear submarines, it’s stupid because they aren’t able to catch them, Panteleev’s speed is less than 30 knots, any multi-purpose vehicle can accelerate to 33-35 knots , Borey missile carrier now flies 30 knots. The BOD is the most complete anachronism, which is exactly what our naval commanders came to ...
          1. Henderson
            Henderson 10 December 2018 15: 23
            +3
            Yes, the same actions in Syria cannot be covered by submarines. It is sad to see when transports have to be hired from the Turks. But does Syria seem to be a line of defense, or not?
          2. Every
            Every 10 December 2018 16: 58
            +5
            Quote: hrych
            Quote: Every
            And what is the connection between the coastal fleet and the defense doctrine? What is the relationship?

            And that is the connection that diesel submarines are being built in our country, and the Americans are not building them at all. Diesel boats fit into the defensive doctrine, and nuclear boats vice versa.

            Atomic and we are building, the strategists - "Borey" and "Ash" are multipurpose, and they cannot be called defensive.
            Our ships are armed with Caliber, but the PLO and air defense are supported on the shore, so we have a strong coastal missile defense and naval aviation.

            The deployment of anti-ship missiles on the coast is not caused by defensive doctrine, but by the lack of naval carriers (2-3 cruisers and several nuclear submarines are not serious). On the RTOs and corvettes "Onyx" can not be marked.
            All issues of work in the far zone, including the fight against the enemy’s nuclear submarines, are carried out by our nuclear submarines, and BOD have not been able to prosecute nuclear submarines for a long time,

            Not necessarily BOD, ships with wide capabilities for the detection and destruction of submarines. They are needed to ensure the deployment of strategists, since US submarines are observing all bases where the SSBNs are located.
            You cannot close the far approaches with coastal air defense systems (over 400 km). It is impossible to deploy air defense systems in submarines. You can’t place the air defense systems of the far zone on small ships (they can’t stupidly fit in), for this you need larger carriers - the far sea and ocean zones.
            Small ships are also incapable of providing layered air defense for ship groups.
          3. Dart2027
            Dart2027 10 December 2018 19: 37
            0
            Quote: hrych
            Diesel boats fit into the defensive doctrine, and nuclear boats vice versa

            There is simply no need for the United States to defend its coast from its neighbors.
          4. Saburov
            Saburov 10 December 2018 23: 43
            +2
            Quote: hrych
            strong coastal missile defense


            How strong is it? In Crimea, of course, yes, with that puddle called the Black Sea. And the far east, north? How much they need to cover it. The number of coastal complexes is limited and in reality we will not provide them with their sea borders. Moreover, driving them there is expensive and not practical.

            Quote: hrych
            and naval aviation


            Yes, we no longer have strong naval aviation. Already, the article at the HE was in full condition with the MA of the Russian Navy. Everything is already. One can only hope and believe ... only not our government.
            Article: https://topwar.ru/146749-morskaja-aviacija-vmf-rf-tekuschee-sostojanie-i-perspektivy.html

            Quote: hrych
            30 nodes, any multipurpose is capable of accelerating to 33-35 nodes, the Borey missile carrier is now flying 30 nodes


            What's the use of these speeds, if in this mode it rattles on the ocean, the torpedo will still catch up. In "quiet" modes they have speeds up to 10-12 knots.

            Quote: hrych
            BOD - the most perfect anachronism, in fact, what our naval commanders came to


            How can the search and destruction of enemy submarines be an anachronism? Our "naval commanders" are still those "strategists" ... to allow coastal ships to support tasks in the far sea zone. If the directors of furniture factories and construction engineers are put at the head of the army ... what to talk about ... what a head, such is the doctrine.
            1. hrych
              hrych 11 December 2018 00: 17
              0
              First, first find the needle in the haystack, or rather, much worse, because the ocean is huge, and a boat a hundred meters with a penny. And then try to intercept her. Along the coastal complexes, there are not many of them, for one enemy ship, one, well, a couple of Onyxes, at the near boundary of the Ball. And you don’t need a lot of them, but only in a shock-hazardous direction, one Bastion complex holds a coastline of 600 km. The bastions stand on the Kuril Islands, Kamchatka, protect Kaliningrad, Novaya Zemlya and the Northern Fleet. In the PKO function, in addition to Tu22M3 with X-22/32 and 4 Daggers, Mig-31 with 1 Dagger was added. A lightweight dagger will carry the Su-57. Also, the Onyx aircraft is preparing to work with the Su-30/35/34 in FFP. And the Black Sea is not a puddle, but the sea. And the army we are commanded by the Chief of Staff Gerasimov is a hero of the Chechen war, who destroyed the army of Ichkeria, returned Crimea to Russia and the winner of the Caliphate. And Taburetkin, as Minister, seized control of the Greater Caucasus Mountain Range, the coastline of Abkhazia. Or is it nothing to do with it? The Minister of Defense has nothing to do with it? Therefore, the winners are not judged. Fershteen?
              Quote: Saburov
              How can it be an anachronism, the search and destruction of enemy submarines?

              Anachronism is a BOD, and not the destruction of enemy submarines and the best anti-submarine vehicle is another submarine, anti-submarine aircraft with buoys and patrol ships. But the BOD is an anachronism, utterly complete throughout the world, including us, abandoning such ships.
              1. Saburov
                Saburov 11 December 2018 02: 46
                +1
                Quote: hrych
                Along the coastal complexes, there are not many of them, for one enemy ship, one, well, a couple of Onyxes, at the near boundary of the Ball.


                For the whole of Russia, for December 2017: 48 K-300P "Bastion". "Ball" in total 44 PU 3K60 for December 2017. It was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines. That is, in your opinion, the enemy has neither air defense systems, nor reconnaissance systems (that our "potential" enemy is much better developed than ours) and he will not take any countermeasures? Will they quietly wait for the coastal batteries to deploy? Generally, the ships will operate at a safe distance and in constant motion. And the enemy also has aviation. And how will you deploy helicopters and over-the-horizon radar for target designation? Yes, you have more than enough bravado ... In reality, these coastal complexes will not even be allowed to turn into positions. Who will cover these complexes from the air? Air defense? Air Force? We don't have enough free air defense systems to cover every coastal battery ... so this will be a one-way ticket. But we love to beat ourselves in the chest ... which is now piling on everyone ... although the story with the same planes in Syria says the opposite.


                Quote: hrych
                In the FFP function, in addition to the Tu22M3 with the X-22 / 32 and 4 Daggers, Mig-31 with the 1 Dagger was added.


                What daggers? What are you speaking about? Aeroballistic missile on ships? Even if the targets are motionless, when starting from a longer range, external target designation is required about the approximate area of ​​the target's presence before the target is captured by the GOS. Watch the center channels less. And how does this relate to maritime aviation?

                Quote: hrych
                And the army we are commanded by the Chief of Staff Gerasimov is a hero of the Chechen war, who destroyed the army of Ichkeria, returned Crimea to Russia and the winner of the Caliphate. And Taburetkin, as Minister, seized control of the Greater Caucasus Mountain Range, the coastline of Abkhazia. Or is it nothing to do with it? The Minister of Defense has nothing to do with it? Therefore, the winners are not judged. Fershteen?


                The field marshal ... destroyed, returned, won ... and the soldiers and officers, the analytics and strategists department ... nothing to do with it ... I won’t even comment on it. Especially after his enthusiastic roulades, phrases and applause about the laser complex ... and other nonsense.


                Quote: hrych
                And Taburetkin, as Minister, seized control of the Greater Caucasus Mountain Range, the coastline of Abkhazia.


                Well? Directly captured or developed the plan itself? So he still needs to write out the order and present the yacht.

                Quote: hrych
                all over the world, including us, these ships were abandoned.


                They did not refuse, since the function of the BOD is carried out by cruisers and destroyers.

                Quote: hrych
                the best submarine vehicle is another submarine, anti-submarine aircraft with buoys and patrol ships. BUT


                I wonder how much effort and resources will be needed for anti-submarine aviation to control one area during 20 days? But doesn’t another submarine reveal itself, and how many submarines are needed to reliably cover all dangerous directions?

                PS It's funny. That corruption, embezzlement, ignorance, and dishonesty in government amazes the country as a terrible weapon. And without any intervention. Therefore, we are presented with pink glasses in the form of pseudo-patriotism and nonexistent achievements ... and the money is then kept by those with whom we have gathered but this is even written in our BC RF ... life is a theater, and people in it are actors. But your right to believe in anything.

                Sincerely.
                1. hrych
                  hrych 11 December 2018 18: 27
                  +1
                  Colleague, no American trough will attack, because there is a strategic nuclear forces and there is no guarantee that their actions will not remain unanswered. The Russian fleet is not in itself, but only part of our combat forces and so far has a smaller share of the nuclear triad. In the region of 30% of nuclear submarines, and in the region of 70% we have ICBMs of the Strategic Missile Forces. Because we are a continental power in the whole vast water area. Accordingly, the United States has 30% of land Minutemen-3 and 70% of marine Trident-2. There is still France and Britain which exclusively have nuclear submarines. And most importantly, in addition to the Bastions and Balls, there are RTOs, Watchdogs and diesels, who armed the Caliber, which naturally has a modification of the RCC. The dagger naturally has an anti-ship modification, and target designation is worked out by ZRLLS Volna, Container, Taurus and a network of Sunflowers. The need for aviation guidance has disappeared. Well, Liana satellite is still there and it works. And not a single surface trough creeps unnoticed. A Kilo-type submarine is invisible to more noisy enemy nuclear submarines, and of course it happens in the area of ​​our active submarine defense and also such things as rocket torpedoes Waterfall (which, in addition to a torpedo, can carry a nuclear depth bomb) will not leave a chance in a duel. Also, to give a volley by all Tomahawks, they need to fit all their carriers practically close to our shore, because our main centers and population are a thousand kilometers from the coast. And for the non-nuclear high-precision Tomahawk, this is the limit. Well, adjust all the media, one Cook approached the launch distance, so they drove him with rags of rags, and then everything was like that. Firstly, to customize them for months, and secondly, it will not come as a surprise to our intelligence, including technical. And one Battery of the Bastion can actually deal with more than one ship. Therefore, the forecast is favorable, all of their creeps with subsonic missiles, which fly hours, and our ICBMs 20 minutes to Washington. Therefore, even with the complete absence of the second most powerful fleet, i.e. ours, Russia will always destroy the country of the enemy, even posthumously. Well, they are not fools and not suicides.
            2. bistrov.
              bistrov. 11 December 2018 07: 53
              0
              Quote: Saburov
              north direction?

              As I imagine blacks, oh, sorry, African-Americans from Miami landed on Yamal, so directly and shiver, hehe ...
        4. Piramidon
          Piramidon 10 December 2018 15: 51
          -3
          Quote: Every
          And what is the connection between the coastal fleet and the defense doctrine? What is the relationship?

          The connection is that the coastal fleet protects and defends its own shores, and does not poke its nose into the whole world, as some "hegemons" do.
      3. lis-ik
        lis-ik 10 December 2018 18: 59
        +5
        Quote: Bearded
        Russia has a defensive doctrine, so the coastal fleet is more important for us.
        As the Cold War grows, a fleet of the far sea zone will be built.

        These are all excuses for complacency.
        1. hrych
          hrych 11 December 2018 18: 32
          +1
          Quote: lis-ik
          These are all excuses for complacency.

          Why freaking out? Who attacked? Our ICBMs decided to check in their own skin? They are rich and they have something to lose. And we will spread any small fry like Ukraine, Georgia and no one will help them. By the way, they gave them a snot and ripped the best pieces of the territory. Therefore it’s complacency wassat
      4. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich 11 December 2018 07: 29
        0
        Quote: Bearded
        Russia has a defensive doctrine, so the coastal fleet is more important for us.

        it is not possible to protect a city by sitting on its walls.
        defensive doctrine only works with initiative
        1. hrych
          hrych 11 December 2018 18: 35
          +1
          Firstly, Russia is not a city, but a continent (the enemy calls it the Heartland), and secondly, ballistas ... intercontinental work for us from behind the walls. And the initiative, it is punishable, so you will soon understand it when it arrives from the ballista because of strangers, besieged walls, for excessive activity wassat Or do you think it will always be like it is now?
          1. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 11 December 2018 20: 53
            0
            Quote: hrych
            Firstly, Russia is not a city, but a continent (the enemy calls it the Heartland), and secondly, ballistas ... intercontinental work for us from behind the walls. And the initiative, it is punishable, so you will soon understand it when it arrives from the ballista because of strangers, besieged walls, for excessive activity Or do you think it will always be like it is now?

            you mix strategy with emotions

            ps The city is a metaphor.
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 10 December 2018 12: 37
      +26
      Only here, and with the submarine fleet, everything is very, very good, and the rate of commissioning of new submarines is higher than ours.
    3. Sleeping
      Sleeping 10 December 2018 12: 42
      -14
      Quote: igorka357
      In the part of the surface, they are mostly right, but they only quietly kept quiet about the submarine fleet!

      "As of April 1, 2018, the Russian Navy has 72 submarines, the US Navy has 71, and the Chinese People's Liberation Army has 76 submarines.
      It is worth noting that the Russian Navy has both nuclear submarines and diesel-electric ones at its disposal, although the entire US submarine fleet consists exclusively of nuclear submarines. In addition, Russian submarines are equipped not only with missiles with nuclear warheads, but also with other weapons: for example, the B-90 Sarov experimental diesel-electric submarine, which is likely to receive the Status-6 unique intercontinental nuclear torpedo.
      1. Conductor
        Conductor 10 December 2018 12: 48
        0
        What kind of torpedo is this, intercontinental?
        1. Sleeping
          Sleeping 10 December 2018 12: 56
          -7
          Quote: Conductor
          What kind of torpedo is this, intercontinental?

          Status-6 "(ocean multi-purpose weapon system; according to NATO codification -" Kanyon ", according to codification of the RF Armed Forces -" Poseidon ") - Russian project of an unmanned nuclear submarine.

          The main objective of the apparatus is the delivery of nuclear warheads (ammunition) to the shores of a likely enemy in order to defeat important coastal elements of the enemy’s economy and inflict guaranteed unacceptable damage on the territory of the country by creating extensive zones of radioactive contamination, tsunamis and other destructive consequences of a nuclear explosion. The existence of an underwater drone March 1, 2018 was officially confirmed by Vladimir Putin. At the same time, he added that the United States carrier strike groups are also the target, which distinguishes this project from its predecessors as the T-15 project, which did not have guiding means for ships.
      2. Sleeping
        Sleeping 10 December 2018 12: 58
        -4
        Status-6 ”is a mini-sized, fully robotic, fast, deep-sea, subtle nuclear submarine.

        “Status-6” is declared as a “multi-purpose self-propelled underwater vehicle”, therefore, equipping a heavy nuclear warhead is only one of the applications.
      3. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 10 December 2018 13: 00
        +22
        Quote: Sleeping
        "As of April 1, 2018, the Russian Navy has 72 submarines, the US Navy has 71, and the Chinese People's Liberation Army has 76 submarines.

        Anyone who has anything to do with the Navy knows what the difference is between "there" and "in service". wink Ukraine also has a submarine.
        Quote: Sleeping
        which probably, will receive a unique intercontinental nuclear torpedo “Status-6”.

        There are a lot of questions with the "Status" itself, but here: probably. smile
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Sleeping
          Sleeping 10 December 2018 15: 22
          -1
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Ukraine also has a submarine.

          Submarine "Zaporozhye" is located in the Crimea.
      4. kjhg
        kjhg 10 December 2018 13: 09
        +25
        "as of April 1, 2018, the Russian Navy has 72 submarines, the US Navy has 71,
        It’s immediately obvious that you have no idea about the state of our Navy. Of these 72 submarines, it is good if two dozen are ready. The rest are in need of repair, in need of maintenance (consider written off).
      5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 December 2018 13: 59
        +26
        Quote: Sleeping
        As of April 1 2018, the Russian Navy has 72 submarines, the US Navy has 71, and the Navy of the People's Liberation Army of China has 76 submarines.

        Excuse me, where do you get this fantasy from? What 72 submarines? :)))))
        SSBN - 10 units, 3 Borea, 6 677BDRM, 1 677BDR
        Multipurpose nuclear submarines - 26 units, 1 Ash, 8 Anteyev 949A, 11 Pike-B, 2 "Pike" of the 671РТМ (К) project 2 units type "Condor" project 945A and 2 units. type "Barracuda" project 945.
        DEPL - 22 pieces, 15 Halibut, 6 Warsaw
        Total - 58 units of which are combat capable well if two-thirds. In addition to this, there are also special purpose boats and deep-sea underwater vehicles.
        I’m not saying that we have the 4 generation boats, we can say that they don’t, the Americans have 19.
        1. hrych
          hrych 10 December 2018 22: 17
          -1
          Another 941 Dmitry Donskoy, two are waiting for disposal.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 December 2018 07: 32
            +1
            Quote: hrych
            Another 941 Dmitry Donskoy

            Incapable
        2. hrych
          hrych 10 December 2018 23: 21
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          In addition to this, there are also special purpose boats

          Already 4 nuclear submarines (Dolphin, Squid and 2 Antei) and diesel Sarov, these boats should not be crossed out, they are not lost to the fleet, moreover, they may be carriers of the most destructive weapons of mankind. One Lada in trial operation, the second launched. Ash and Borey pass through the ZHI. Here you look another dozen submarines on the water of which seven are nuclear.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 December 2018 07: 38
            +1
            Quote: hrych
            Already 4 nuclear submarines (Dolphin, Squid and 2 Antei) and diesel Sarov, these boats should not be crossed out

            These are mostly ships for the deployment and maintenance of EGSONPO, that is, its underwater part, such as SOSUS. They are not fighting.
            Quote: hrych
            they are not lost to the fleet, moreover, perhaps they will be the carriers of the most destructive weapons of mankind

            Yes, it hits the brain with terrible force :)))) Poseidon is nonsense, from the word "complete", and not "the most terrible weapon"
            Quote: hrych
            One Lada in trial operation, the second launched. Ash and Borey pass through the ZHI. Here you look another dozen submarines on the water of which seven are nuclear.

            I’ve taken into account Lada, I just didn’t finish it, without it there would be 21 DEPL.
            Yeah :))) non-combat special-purpose boats, one diesel-electric submarine, RPKSN and Kazan. And in the negative you can record half of Anteyev and Schuk-B, all Pikes, Condors and Barracudas, and all Halibuts - they have only a short time to go.
            1. hrych
              hrych 11 December 2018 17: 48
              +1
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              they don’t have to go long

              Well, okay, there is a repair and modernization. Still resemble and until the last war of mankind will clearly survive. Poseidon is not nonsense, this is your subjective opinion. You type think that this is a bluff for our layman and opponent. However, it was the whole fleet of potential carriers that was prepared, and this is no longer a joke. The special-purpose submarine is certainly not exclusively for Poseidon, but years ago the leak on Status-6 was unambiguous. Boreas and Ash-trees are completely built for themselves, 5 Boreevs and 6 Ash-trees, one each for sea trials on water, two with hulls that underwent hydraulic tests. Two frets on the water, one under construction. Two Varshavyanka are under construction. And if a global positioning system appeared, and if there is an energy source, why would you refuse to exist in a nuclear torpedo. And they showed her in the assembly shop and the President vouched for her, and you deny everything. By the way, Severstal and Arkhangelsk have also not yet made a decision, there is only a blizzard in the media from left-wing sources, but so far they are kept in reserve and not touched.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 December 2018 09: 08
                +1
                Quote: hrych
                Well, okay, there is a repair and modernization

                NOT coming. Modernization plans for 4 Pike and 4 Anteyev failed.
                Quote: hrych
                Poseidon is not nonsense, this is your subjective opinion. You type think that this is a bluff for our layman and opponent. However, it was the whole fleet of potential carriers that was prepared, and this is no longer a joke

                There is no fleet of carriers there. Perhaps the 1-2 Premier League. But the funny thing is that with the declared TTX the sediment does not need a carrier at all, it can be launched directly from the shore :))))) And here the question arises - either the TTX is false, or you have something wrong with the special purpose boats
                Quote: hrych
                Boreas and Ash-trees are completely built for themselves, 5 Boreev and 6 Ash-trees, one at a time on water trials,

                Yes, only by the time they are completed, it will be necessary to withdraw from the fleet approximately 6 SSBNs and 13-15 nuclear submarines.
                Quote: hrych
                Two frets on the water, one under construction. Two Varshavyanka are under construction.

                This is instead of 15 Halibut, who had to retire yesterday?
                Quote: hrych
                And they showed her in the assembly shop and the President vouched for her, and you deny everything

                The President has vouched for so many things that you can’t believe his words for a long time
                1. hrych
                  hrych 12 December 2018 13: 34
                  0
                  Poseidon certainly does not need a carrier. Baranets leaked an insider, after a conversation with the developers, that the Torpedo - Apocalypse (when using a powerful charge to defeat megalopolises and enemy bases) will be on duty not far from the target at a kilometer depth waiting for a start for 3 years, then home for maintenance. Also, a strike on a stationary object from our shore is not forbidden, but the question of time is important, this is not 20 minutes of ICBM flight. However, besides the function of strategic nuclear forces, there is also the task of tactical nuclear weapons, which is the defeat of naval formations and communications of the enemy. In this case, this device needs a carrier, as a control point located in the right area, and there is also, no less important, the defeat of the enemy’s nuclear submarines, both multipurpose and SSBNs. In this case, like an old pirate, you know that our carrier in standby mode itself examines the water area with a sonar, receives signals from its deployed buoys, interacts with aviation, satellites and ... intelligence agents. In a word, I need to know in which square the enemy’s nuclear submarines are at a given time, so that Poseidon blows up this square with all its contents.
    4. dinis
      dinis 10 December 2018 13: 20
      -6
      Yes, I agree, it seems that Russia is betting on the submarine fleet.
    5. Adimius38
      Adimius38 10 December 2018 19: 35
      0
      And what about the submarine fleet being actively built ??? call me new submarine hunters for submarines, call horseradish well, if only ash, which are less than fingers on one arm
      1. kjhg
        kjhg 10 December 2018 22: 09
        +2
        Quote: Adimius38
        which are less than fingers on one hand

        Far less. More precisely, their one and a half boats, the head one is Severodvinsk and, also the head one, but modernized is Kazan, which has just started testing.
      2. dinis
        dinis 11 December 2018 18: 43
        0
        Something but a submarine fleet is under construction and is planned for construction, and a surface ocean fleet is not being built at all and is not planned.
  2. Svarog
    Svarog 10 December 2018 12: 35
    -3
    We are a continental power, of course it’s not bad to have a powerful fleet, but when there is no money, it’s not bad, and improving missiles expands the possibilities practically without leaving the bay ..
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 10 December 2018 12: 47
      +13
      Quote: Svarog
      but when there is no money it’s not so bad

      It's all right when not. And when there is, but not about naval honor? It is much easier to snag 5 aircraft carriers in winter games. Again, football is not found in the cabbage ...
      For insufficient funding of the army and navy, for misappropriation of funds in the Defense Industry, one must shoot without the right to "retake" ...
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 10 December 2018 14: 11
      +6
      Quote: Svarog
      when there is no money it’s not so bad
      Sell ​​two dozen yachts of oligarchs and officials, and immediately would have found money on the submarine fleet and on the surface.
    3. Tiksi-3
      Tiksi-3 10 December 2018 14: 33
      +4
      Quote: Svarog
      We are a continental power

      And the USA and China? - island ??
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 10 December 2018 20: 31
        -2
        Quote: Tiksi-3
        And the USA and China? - island ??

        And we have almost no merchant fleet, and there is nothing to guard except the coast. It turns out, and we do not need him.
        1. Tiksi-3
          Tiksi-3 10 December 2018 21: 24
          0
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          And we have almost no merchant fleet

          the whole world fleet under the flag of Guadeloupe ..... do they need aircraft carriers?
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          and apart from the coast there is nothing to guard.

          belay Compare the coastline with us and the United States, but at least any country in the world !!! And by the way, gas and oil fields ????
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          It turns out, and we do not need him.

          it turns out only to you and does not need
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 10 December 2018 21: 44
            0
            Quote: Tiksi-3
            the whole world fleet under the flag of Guadeloupe ..... do they need aircraft carriers?

            No, they are not needed. Only these Papuans will not do anything in the event of an attack on "their" fleet.
            Quote: Tiksi-3
            Compare the coastline with us and the United States, but at least any country in the world !!!

            Easy:

            Quote: Tiksi-3
            And by the way, gas and oil fields ????

            And what?
            In 2017, the entire Russian sea fleet transported only about 27 million tons of cargo, while more than 780 million tons passed through all the sea ports of Russia. Thus, the navy transported about 3,5% of Russia's foreign trade cargo.
            Quote: Tiksi-3
            it turns out only to you and does not need

            I will be proud of the Eclipse. laughing
    4. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 10 December 2018 15: 29
      +1
      No money left?
      Russia has a budget surplus of 400 billion.
      1. kjhg
        kjhg 10 December 2018 22: 14
        +1
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Russia has a budget surplus of 400 billion.

        Per month or per quarter? Medvedev has already announced a surplus of 2,5 trillion rubles a year.
    5. Korax71
      Korax71 10 December 2018 15: 29
      +4
      A continental power without a powerful fleet, like Casanova with a huge idle manhood. While the length of the sea borders will obviously be more than land ones. Firing rockets from the pier without leaving the bay is not even from the area of ​​science fiction. If we are a continental power , please answer the question, why are we then in Syria? The main supply routes for our contingent are sea. TA cargo delivery is not a panacea due to capacity limitations. If we are positioning ourselves as a superpower, then we must project it both on land and at sea, and defend our geopolitical interests anywhere in the world. soldier
    6. Adimius38
      Adimius38 10 December 2018 19: 36
      +5
      what power ??? The USSR was a power and we didn’t even stand by the grandeur of a real power of the USSR
  3. Egorovich
    Egorovich 10 December 2018 12: 36
    -3
    Someone attacks, as the main aggressor of the Earth - the United States, and someone defends themselves against aggressors, like Russia, and therefore the Navy will always be different, even with finances.
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 10 December 2018 12: 59
      +2
      Hi Sasha ! hi
      The Russian Navy is becoming more and more “green-water”, that is, a force capable of acting only in coastal waters

      Like Sun Tzu says: "Never underestimate your opponent, but do not overestimate either." yes
    2. Henderson
      Henderson 10 December 2018 15: 25
      +1
      The Chinese think completely differently and build a powerful fleet.
  4. kjhg
    kjhg 10 December 2018 12: 37
    +1
    "green-water" belay the word is what an unpleasant, specially selected to humiliate. The fact that we will not see the ocean fleet in the next 20 years is already a reality with which we will have to live. For such a huge, rich country, which claims to be one of the poles of the future multipolar world - this is a very big minus. But still it must be admitted that this is not yet critical for the survival of the country itself. Although of course it is very disappointing that our billionaires have such luxurious yachts, but there is no money for the construction of ships for the Navy.
    1. vadsonen
      vadsonen 10 December 2018 15: 00
      +2
      "green-water" word is so unpleasant, it was specially selected to humiliate

      Not humiliation, but a stupid literal translation of the English words "greenwater" and "bluewater". I mean coastal and oceanic.
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 10 December 2018 12: 43
    +3
    What we can, then we have .... do not climb to our shores and all business! Everyone will be calm.
  6. Self
    Self 10 December 2018 12: 46
    +9
    Well, to be honest, and in the underwater is not very. If desired, America can rivet much more submarines at any time. But on the other hand it is natural. All the same, they colorize and cut pieces of paper, they cannot be caught up with in this respect. The only salvation is to build up and modernize the nuclear triad. And even with this, it’s not very good. The number of the same air missile carriers is depressingly small. The submarines are also not very much. All surplus must be thrown there. Not to buy barges, for example, in France (yes, it was a miracle that they were lucky not to buy them, but they wanted and paid), and all that.
  7. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 10 December 2018 12: 48
    +1
    You need at least one very attractive strike carrier group, without these experiments with premature aircraft carriers and the desire to cram unbeatable into any boat. What is the resource of an MRC with weapons like a cruiser, after a year of operation with active shooting it will be a loosened lohan, after which it will often stand in Dock than going to sea.
  8. Wasya
    Wasya 10 December 2018 12: 48
    +15
    Our fleet is camouflaged in the form of civilian yachts of the oligarchs, the total displacement of which will be more than the US Navy and China. So you can sleep peacefully.
    1. Adimius38
      Adimius38 10 December 2018 21: 12
      0
      for sure, our strike boats of Usmanov, Abramovich have already taken up positions in the Monaco, Miami, California area
  9. dvina71
    dvina71 10 December 2018 12: 50
    -11
    Measure the fleet with a displacement and this is only from the last century, when the size of the main caliber and the number of trunks were announced from the displacement. The modern RTOs will emerge victorious in the battle with Missouri or Yamato and will be repulsed by a piston aircraft raid of that time. Now we need to talk about a portable weapon system .. Does Burke have eight subsonic anti-ship missiles ... and what is the use of his 10ct displacement in the fight against two smaller Gorshkovs?
    1. Hypersound
      Hypersound 10 December 2018 14: 14
      -5
      True, our RTOs in terms of firepower are comparable to the much larger and heavier American frigates. Most of the commentators here are completely off topic. In the framework of the financial resources available to our Navy, Russia acts extremely effectively
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 10 December 2018 19: 02
        +2
        Quote: Hypersound
        True, our RTOs in terms of firepower are comparable to the much larger and heavier American frigates.

        The USA has no frigates. What are their admirals very sad now. smile
        And 8 cells of the UVP of our RTOs are hardly comparable with 32-56 cells of "Burks", which will be given under LRASM.
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 10 December 2018 14: 15
      +5
      Quote: dvina71
      Burke has eight subsonic anti-ship missiles ... and what is the use of his 10ct displacement in the fight with two smaller Gorshkov?
      Oh well? Berkov in the ranks of almost 70, if my memory serves me right, and they plan to catch up to 84. And how many Gorshkovs are there in the ranks, do not remind me?
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 December 2018 18: 19
        +1
        Quote: Greenwood
        Berkov in the ranks almost 70, if my memory serves me right

        Slightly changes, there are 66 of them with two Zamvolts, but there are 22 more missile cruisers of the "Ticonderoga" class ...
    3. bobba94
      bobba94 10 December 2018 17: 58
      0
      dvina71, everything is correct. Now, real military experts believe that a modern ship is primarily a carrier of the latest weapons, stuffed with super electronics. I saw Japanese fishing schooners ..... rusty boxes, shabby and unpretentious, but ..... the fishing equipment is new and kept in perfect condition, radar equipment, echo sounder and so on. The latest, powerful diesel.
    4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 December 2018 18: 11
      +4
      Quote: dvina71
      Modern MRK will be the winner in the battle with Missouri or Yamato

      This, of course, is not my business, but drinking so much on Monday is unhealthy
      Quote: dvina71
      Burke has eight subsonic anti-ship missiles.

      Burke has as many subsonic LRASMs as he needs. In the shock version - up to 56, although it may be more.
      Quote: dvina71
      . well and the sense of its 10ct displacement in the fight with two smaller Gorshkov?

      The Americans have all the tasks of fighting at sea solved by carrier-based aviation, and Burke is a ship to support carrier-based aviation, so contrasting it with Gorshkov alone is a sign of global misunderstanding of the basics of modern warfare at sea
    5. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 10 December 2018 18: 48
      +2
      Quote: dvina71
      Burke has eight subsonic anti-ship missiles ... and what is the use of his 10ct displacement in the fight with two smaller Gorshkov?

      So Burke will not fight Gorshkov. The Burkes will guard AB, whose air groups are currently the USN's primary anti-ship weapon. For the time being are - before entering service with shipborne LRASM. But then we will "see" how many cells of the UVP will be occupied by these anti-ship missiles.
  10. Maverick1812
    Maverick1812 10 December 2018 12: 52
    +2
    But we have "Dilbar" and Yacht "A" on the "blue water" ....
    1. maverickr
      maverickr 10 December 2018 16: 23
      0
      with gauges? =)
  11. Mouse
    Mouse 10 December 2018 12: 55
    0
    laughs the one who laughs last ... yes
  12. Prisoner
    Prisoner 10 December 2018 12: 55
    -3
    Well, we don’t need to occupy California and Oregon. And that's enough for protection.
  13. Altona
    Altona 10 December 2018 12: 57
    +9
    If Sechin bought an apartment the size of a dock, then the question is probably not about money.
  14. fruit_cake
    fruit_cake 10 December 2018 12: 58
    +7
    where would the money come from if it all leaks to the west, and we impose a tax on self-employed and increase the retirement age, instead of introducing a progressive tax system
    1. Tusv
      Tusv 10 December 2018 13: 29
      -2
      Quote: fruit_cake
      instead of introducing a progressive tax system

      What did you all get to the progressive tax system? It was with us and recognized as not effective. The oligarchs, then officially don't get a grudge hi
      1. ALARI
        ALARI 10 December 2018 14: 08
        +3
        So millions of self-employed to rob both resources and desire, and dozens of thousands of snickering rich (privatizers) to tax with a progressive tax lack intelligence and strength? I hope that such a thing as income tax, not salary tax is known?
        1. fruit_cake
          fruit_cake 10 December 2018 14: 14
          +1
          Well, how do they impose themselves on predatory taxes? why then buy new palaces and yachts?
        2. Greenwood
          Greenwood 10 December 2018 14: 17
          +3
          Quote: ALARI
          a few tens of thousands of snickering rich (privatizers) to tax with a progressive tax mind is not enough and strength
          Umm, these snickering rich people are friends and associates of our president and members of the government. You will not hurt your friends in vain, depriving them of a significant part of the honestly acquired overwork.
          1. ALARI
            ALARI 10 December 2018 14: 23
            0
            God ordered to share. Part, it is always less than the whole.
        3. Tusv
          Tusv 10 December 2018 14: 27
          +1
          Quote: ALARI
          I hope that such a thing as income tax, not salary tax is known?

          Take it easy. Increased from 9 to 13
          1. ALARI
            ALARI 10 December 2018 14: 39
            0
            Reassured, now we will heal.
    2. Warrior2015
      Warrior2015 10 December 2018 13: 31
      -1
      Quote: fruit_cake
      where would the money come from if it all leaks to the west, and we impose a tax on self-employed and increase the retirement age, instead of introducing a progressive tax system

      I can not fail to note the correctness of your words ...
  15. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 10 December 2018 12: 58
    +3
    Although the Americans are PR, but unfortunately they are right in this. As for the submarine fleet, the situation is not in comparison better.
  16. japan-k
    japan-k 10 December 2018 12: 59
    -4
    All right said about the submarine fleet. But you can still add one point: WHY will these expensive (enormous) bulk carriers be needed, if suddenly, unnoticed, such weapons (hypersonic missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles) appear in the world, air, ground, underwater, surface based, with firing range, so to say, 2-3 thousand km. Then all this cool power will go to the dump .... And the scenario is, it has very great chances
  17. kill the fascist
    kill the fascist 10 December 2018 13: 03
    0
    Partly fair. There is no extra money, but don’t seem to be planning to fight off the coast of Honduras until we plan))
    1. Henderson
      Henderson 10 December 2018 15: 27
      0
      And off the coast of Syria, and the defense of the Kuril Islands?
  18. Ros 56
    Ros 56 10 December 2018 13: 08
    -4
    And what difference does the striped one drown them, or a missile ship, or a heavy nuclear cruiser, or a submarine?
  19. Alex_59
    Alex_59 10 December 2018 13: 17
    +13
    Unfortunately, the likely adversary is right.
    And the saddest thing is not the problem of money.
  20. lot
    lot 10 December 2018 13: 19
    +4
    oligarchs' yachts will display the flag. Peskov's clock with skulls terrify the enemy. Medvedev on the "Svetlana" will give heat.
  21. Holsten
    Holsten 10 December 2018 13: 26
    -1
    When the plans for the discovery and development of America appear, the fleet of the far sea zone will appear. In the meantime, you need to put the adversary in place, then yes, so there is nothing for our overseas well-wishers to worry much about the Russian fleet - everything has its time.
    1. lot
      lot 10 December 2018 13: 39
      +2
      of course we will wait wink business then - start and finish - pensioners will be thrown off -
      life has become better, life has become more fun (s) wink

      On the construction by Rosneft of a secret VIP residence on the Yenisei worth more than 9 billion rubles. told the SDGs this spring. Then it became known that the company had unfrozen the construction of its headquarters on Kutuzovsky Prospekt in Moscow. The project is valued no less than $ 1 billion (or 65 billion rubles).
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 10 December 2018 14: 20
      +1
      Quote: Holsten
      plans to discover and explore America
      For its development, the fleet is not needed. It is quite enough to buy elite real estate there, send children to study, invest in Western banks, and receive American citizenship. But there are just no problems with this, a significant part of officials and Russian rich have long mastered America in this way. Look, take the Peskov family, than not the masters of the enlightened West, all have foreign citizenship.
  22. Alexander not great
    Alexander not great 10 December 2018 13: 36
    +4
    here they are completely right, and the United States has much more fleet and financial capabilities.
  23. Hypersound
    Hypersound 10 December 2018 14: 08
    -5
    Such is the defensive concept of the RF Ministry of Defense in relation to the Navy. Money, alas, is not infinite, the Moscow Region does everything right
  24. bratchanin3
    bratchanin3 10 December 2018 14: 54
    -3
    Russia is a self-sufficient land power, and in order to protect its coastal waters and ensure shipping along the NSR, ocean-going vessels, and even more so AUG, are not needed. Russia does not prepare itself for world gendarmes.
    1. Henderson
      Henderson 10 December 2018 15: 28
      +3
      As for self-sufficiency, this is a big question. Even the key drugs are not produced by ourselves.
    2. malyvalv
      malyvalv 10 December 2018 21: 29
      0
      That the United States will impose sanctions in the form of a ban on the sea trade of Russia with the rest of the world and confiscate a couple of our ships somewhere in the Strait of Malacca and what will we do with our coastal fleet? Oceans are not the Sea of ​​Azov where piracy of Ukrainians can be stopped quite quickly.
  25. Disorder
    Disorder 10 December 2018 17: 18
    -3
    Do we need it, chasing them? They themselves will sail under the coastal batteries.
  26. Metallurg_2
    Metallurg_2 10 December 2018 20: 11
    -1
    To embed a nuclear missile in Washington or New York, the SSBN does not have to leave the pier ...
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 December 2018 20: 15
      +1
      Quote: Metallurg_2
      To embed a nuclear missile in Washington or New York, the SSBN does not have to leave the pier ...

      Required. Learning the principles of using the SSBN
  27. mitchhunter
    mitchhunter 11 December 2018 06: 32
    +1
    Quote: igorka357
    In the part of the surface, they are mostly right, but they only quietly kept quiet about the submarine fleet!

    The submarine fleet is also on the list, goes second after the surface ... it also awaits a deep fifth point, some 5 years from now, no more.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 11 December 2018 07: 31
      +1
      Quote: mitchhunter
      he is also waiting for a deep fifth point

      Why is waiting? He has long been there
  28. Sarcasm
    Sarcasm 11 December 2018 11: 50
    0
    For accidentally potential enemies, Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan is quite enough, but before the US NAVI and the USSR it was not kept up, so all the rules.
  29. lopvlad
    lopvlad 11 December 2018 15: 10
    +1
    able to act only in coastal waters


    with such huge maritime borders like Russia has, the first thing to be ensured is the protection of coastal waters and resources in them along the entire length of these borders. Until this is provided and in the coastal waters there are small ships built in the 70s, it makes sense to build some "big pies" no.