Military Review

In the USA, the Ka-52 helicopter was compared with the American Apache

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The Russian Ka-52 "Alligator" and the American AH-64E can be called the best combat helicopters in its class, and the "Kamovsky" machine boasts better maneuverability and greater firepower, writes Business Insider.


In the USA, the Ka-52 helicopter was compared with the American Apache


The author notes that the Ka-52 acquired “extreme maneuverability” due to the coaxial arrangement of the screws. The helicopter is armed with such missiles as Whirlwind and Attack (anti-tank), X-25ML (air-to-surface class), as well as unmanaged C-8 (80 mm) and 2-42 gun (30 mm).

At the same time, the ship-based Alligator is equipped with X-35 anti-ship missiles with a range of damage to 130 km, he adds.

The entire Apsen arsenal can be counterbalanced by AGM-114 Hellfire (air-to-surface) missiles, 70-mm unguided missiles, and also a 30-mm cannon, the material says.

True, the latest version of the Apache - AH-64E has a "trump card": its equipment is able to receive information from UAVs and even partially manage them.

As a result, the author concludes that, despite the Alligator’s superiority in maneuverability and armament, the winner “with a small margin” is still the “Apache”, “able” to actively interact with the drones.

The article also notes that Apache first took to the air in the 1975 year, has since been modernized several times, the newest option is AH-64E. As of 2014, the year was the second most common combat helicopter after the Soviet Mi-24.

Ka-52 The Alligator made its first flight in 1997, and is the successor to the Ka-50 Black Shark (Black Shark). The machine is capable of hitting armored and unarmored vehicles, manpower, and air targets on the battlefield.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
60 comments
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  1. Sergey39
    Sergey39 6 December 2018 12: 50
    +18
    Forgot that the KA-52 is armored, unlike Apache
    1. ALEXXX1983
      ALEXXX1983 6 December 2018 13: 04
      +18
      Quote: Sergey39
      Forgot that the KA-52 is armored, unlike Apache

      And there are still catapults in case of a hit.
      In general, the cars are very different. The Ka-52 is armored, while the Apache has better electronics and has normal (and not second-generation) anti-tank missiles that allow them to strike from afar, acting on the "fire and knock down" principle.
      This is how to compare special forces-attack aircraft and a sniper. One is good in one, the other in the other.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 6 December 2018 13: 12
        +3
        Quote: ALEXXX1983
        In general, the cars are very different.

        It is more logical to compare Apache with Mi-28. request
        1. kapitan92
          kapitan92 6 December 2018 13: 36
          +3
          Quote: Vladimirets
          It is more logical to compare Apache with Mi-28.

          I agree with you. There was a comparison in. Interesting article. hi
          https://topwar.ru/19830-luchshie-v-svoem-klasse-mi-28n-i-ah-64d-apache-longbow.html
        2. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 6 December 2018 20: 43
          0
          It is more logical to compare Apache with Mi-28.

          Mi 28 is also much better armored, acts directly on the battlefield and not jackal from a distance.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWQ23Ad9-7Y
        3. just exp
          just exp 7 December 2018 11: 43
          0
          But what do Mi-28 and Apache have in common, which is not in the Ka-52?
      2. Topotun
        Topotun 6 December 2018 15: 29
        +1
        Some kind of nonsense, And Apache and Ka-52 can carry air-to-air missiles. And who better to argue in this case is pointless, it’s hard to dodge the Needle .... However, the Sidewinder does not smear, especially for such slow goals. Therefore, who better to depend only on the task and experience and pilot's skill.
      3. Doliva63
        Doliva63 6 December 2018 19: 00
        +1
        Quote: ALEXXX1983
        Quote: Sergey39
        Forgot that the KA-52 is armored, unlike Apache

        And there are still catapults in case of a hit.
        In general, the cars are very different. The Ka-52 is armored, while the Apache has better electronics and has normal (and not second-generation) anti-tank missiles that allow them to strike from afar, acting on the "fire and knock down" principle.
        This is how to compare special forces-attack aircraft and a sniper. One is good in one, the other in the other.

        Attack Special Forces - it's cool! laughing
        For reference: in the special forces, the main specialty is a scout. I met "assault aircraft" only in divisional reconnaissance - there were reconnaissance-assault groups. And that's not everywhere.
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 6 December 2018 20: 52
          0
          Quote: Doliva63
          there were reconnaissance-assault groups.

          The newly formed 1st Guards. ISBR /// Murom, the reserve of the Supreme High Command /// --- it has an assault battalion as I understand it. Personal selection and special training for storming buildings, fighting in the city. There was an article, there is very detailedhttps://topwar.ru/91550-pro-gvardeyskoe-shturmovoe-podrazdelenie-inzhenernyh-voysk.html
          1. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt 7 December 2018 18: 02
            0
            Quote: Doliva63
            Doliva63 (Valentine)

            The transmission is there, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6g43V3BLD4A very clear example that the battle in the city is continued by either the most numerous or the most skillful. So, the first Guards Assault - it is in every district /// or should be /// However ... it is not evening yet as mine sang musical idol. I believe that in each direction there will be special brigades, attack aircraft are very necessary, because. heavy battles for the troops are taking place in the city building. It is not for nothing that it is called the "field" charter of the RKKA, Comrade Valentin. //// Having broken these fellows into companies, you can pour them into their usual motorized riflemen up to the battalion. cities have to be taken under any numerology /// Armies love to take cities, they adore /// So /// if this "and so" is appropriate when addressing me to you. I believe that such engineering and assault brigades will appear in the South and in the East. It seems to me that they will develop all this efficiently.
          2. Doliva63
            Doliva63 7 December 2018 18: 18
            0
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            Quote: Doliva63
            there were reconnaissance-assault groups.

            The newly formed 1st Guards. ISBR /// Murom, the reserve of the Supreme High Command /// --- it has an assault battalion as I understand it. Personal selection and special training for storming buildings, fighting in the city. There was an article, there is very detailedhttps://topwar.ru/91550-pro-gvardeyskoe-shturmovoe-podrazdelenie-inzhenernyh-voysk.html

            You do not understand, my remark was about intelligence. She, by definition, does not storm.
    2. another RUSICH
      another RUSICH 6 December 2018 13: 22
      +11
      In my opinion, comparing them is generally not correct. It's like a bike with a motorcycle engine, and some Harley.
      Kamov is closer in class to the attack front-line helicopter, and the Apache for strikes from afar: shot and ran away
      Apache can be shot down with a dragoon, but the alligator does not even frown.
      In short, another crap, not a comparison
      1. Kurare
        Kurare 6 December 2018 15: 09
        0
        Quote: another RUSICH
        In my opinion, comparing them is generally not correct. It's like a bike with a motorcycle engine, and some Harley.
        Apache can be shot down with a dragoon, but the alligator does not even frown.

        You just made a comparison hi Those. Alligator is better in security.
        In the end, only war compares. And Apache has some advantage here. Therefore, they announced the modernization of the 52nd after operation in Syria.
        1. Flyer_64
          Flyer_64 6 December 2018 15: 29
          +2
          Quote: Kurare
          modernization of the 52nd after operation

          Because by announcing its high maneuverability, they ignored some of the shortcomings that appeared in Syria.
          1. Kurare
            Kurare 6 December 2018 15: 59
            +2
            As he wrote, "only war compares."
            And the fact that some of the shortcomings got out is always the case. And the "Crocodile" (Mi-24) first flew sooooo low. soldier
    3. kapitan92
      kapitan92 6 December 2018 13: 45
      0
      Quote: Sergey39
      Forgot that the KA-52 is armored, unlike Apache

      Why do you think that Apache does not have armor protection?
      The armor that protects the cabin from below and from the sides, as well as the armored partition between the seats, are made of Kevlar composite material.
      12,7mm compresses, then more difficult.
      https://topwar.ru/1103-ah-64-apache-attack-helicopter.html
    4. Е2 - Е4
      Е2 - Е4 6 December 2018 13: 48
      -27
      who told you that Apache is NOT RESERVED ??? Which EXPERT told you this ??? Compared to Apache, the KA 52 helicopter is a piece of useless iron
      1. ALEXXX1983
        ALEXXX1983 6 December 2018 15: 12
        +4
        Probably the Taliban who brought down Apache from a karamultuk. His armor only covers the cabin in some places, while the Ka-50 has more of it. Apache and Ka-50 have different concepts of application, the American is more imprisoned for long-range combat, and ours is for attack. And although Apache is a good helicopter, the Ka-50 is also far from
        Quote: Е2 - Е4
        piece of useless iron
      2. edvardmiloslavsky
        edvardmiloslavsky 6 December 2018 21: 28
        -1
        Well, why are you so ... they don’t like the truth here ... only approvals. strictly.
    5. st25310
      st25310 6 December 2018 14: 44
      0
      The catapult was forgotten to be mentioned on the KA-52. And the age of the helicopters, ours will be newer ...
    6. Totah155 Mk2
      Totah155 Mk2 6 December 2018 21: 11
      0
      The Egyptians do not agree with you.

      They say that Apache is better than Kamov in the following positions:
      * Engine in hot climates.
      * Armament and fire control. * Best night flying options
      1. another RUSICH
        another RUSICH 7 December 2018 00: 19
        +1
        Yeah ... the Egyptians are still those warriors. Worse than them, perhaps, only the Saudis, but their opinion is credible ... yeah)
      2. just exp
        just exp 7 December 2018 11: 47
        +1
        this was not said by the Egyptians, but by American journalists when they wrote the news about the purchase of Apaches by Egypt.
        But the Apaches bought because they are for free, because the matars give 3 lard a year fin. help to Egypt, but they can ONLY buy American equipment for these 3 lards (and sometimes, with the permission of the states, something from the EU).
  2. edeligor
    edeligor 6 December 2018 12: 53
    +3
    the winner "by a small margin" is still "Apache"
    lol Who doubted! Fashion or something like that, "in one fell swoop seven kills." Ours from "Zvezda" have become infected with shapkozakidatelstvo, it's even somehow indecent ...
  3. Egorovich
    Egorovich 6 December 2018 12: 55
    +14
    Once the Americans recognized the superiority of their Apache by a small margin, it can be stated that the K-52 is the best helicopter. "
  4. Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 6 December 2018 12: 56
    +3
    actively interact with drones

    And what of it? Will it send a command to become kamikaze drones? Especially if you compare helicopters objectively - then 1 on 1, without the extra type of drones and not taking into account auxiliary sources of information, such as ground stations. Here it is more important for whom the on-board equipment is better developed, whose radar someone will notice earlier, the range of the missiles, etc.
  5. Kawado
    Kawado 6 December 2018 13: 07
    +10
    This is how to compare two computers.
    And to award a victory to the one on which the Word is installed, since it is possible to print documents in it. )))
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 6 December 2018 13: 10
    +9
    Alligator is unique. Coaxial, maneuverable, armored.
    And what did they record in advantage? Collecting information from drones? This is good against the Papuans.
    And in air combat "short" - when the reaction, and the speed ... And our gun is more powerful.
  7. StobbeS
    StobbeS 6 December 2018 13: 13
    +2
    Quote: Archivist Vasya
    whose radar anyone will notice before

    "Anti-helicopter helicopters" do not exist, they are not created for this.
    1. Archivist Vasya
      Archivist Vasya 6 December 2018 13: 25
      +3
      This is true, but counteraction to low-speed air targets is also included in the scope of the Ka-52. How can it be without any radar, at least some sort of.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 6 December 2018 13: 33
      +2
      Quote: StobbeS
      "Anti-helicopter helicopters" do not exist, they are not created for this.

      But the Ka-52 is capable of hitting, including air targets.
  8. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 6 December 2018 13: 19
    0
    Americans are again seen in their hobby - the measurements of pips, where drones virtually won over the whole thing, but not Apache.
    In the future, such a hunting flock of drones with distributed roles means pseudo-intelligence, which you want or not will have to give up control over decision-making. And such a configuration does not need a helicopter at all. Any unit in the battle link with the necessary authority, which does not need to expose itself to the extra risk of being destroyed, can become the carrier, dock, control point.
    Robots inject, not a man.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 December 2018 14: 20
      -3
      Quote: g1washntwn

      Americans are again seen in their hobby - the measurements of pips, where drones virtually won over the whole thing, but not Apache.


      The measurement of pipis is mainly here, with the cry "our pipis has no analogues"
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 6 December 2018 19: 06
      0
      Quote: g1washntwn
      Americans are again seen in their hobby - the measurements of pips, where drones virtually won over the whole thing, but not Apache.
      In the future, such a hunting flock of drones with distributed roles means pseudo-intelligence, which you want or not will have to give up control over decision-making. And such a configuration does not need a helicopter at all. Any unit in the battle link with the necessary authority, which does not need to expose itself to the extra risk of being destroyed, can become the carrier, dock, control point.
      Robots inject, not a man.

      After the detonation of a tactical special ammunition, where will this "intelligence" be?
      1. svp67
        svp67 6 December 2018 19: 09
        +1
        Quote: Doliva63
        After the detonation of a tactical special ammunition, where will this "intelligence" be?

        Now there are enough REP complexes or use EM ammunition, so as not to destroy the environment
        1. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 7 December 2018 06: 34
          0
          Let's say that at present there are REB tools to interfere with the "sensory" part of the virtual AI. There is no need to talk about disabling the "military" microprocessor, for this you need a practically direct impact with high energy, and even in the atmosphere, which itself is a "dielectric" for such radiation. For household microcircuits, perhaps, and even then under certain conditions. But with proper algorithms, the drones have already learned to stop missions and return on a two-bit autopilot so as not to be destroyed. The whole struggle with them is now at the stage of introducing obstacles into the process of their orientation, no more.
          There is no talk of any "burning of processors" using EMP. To get destructive peak EMP radiation for microcircuits, you need a nuclear explosion very, VERY close to such a flock of drones, where all other damaging factors will go to the piggy bank of the damage done to the drones. The development of "electronic bombs" in all countries is classified, but from the leaked information it is clear that while the power to bring out all the electronics at once and over a large area is out of the question. The only powerful source of EMP is nuclear weapons. Do you propose to jam every flock of shock micro-drones with high-altitude thermonuclear explosions of the megaton class? Ok, get ready to go.
          And now two kopecks about the future: With the improvement of technologies, the struggle of "shield and sword" will only develop. Silicon microelectronics, which has its own advantages and disadvantages, is not the final stage. Pseudo intelligent systems are already working, at first limited, and then full-fledged AI will irreversibly appear. This is a primitive law of development of everything and everyone.
  9. 501Legion
    501Legion 6 December 2018 13: 28
    +1
    vahahahaha well, and the analyst of these guys is not only that the data is not correct. so also the losing Apache on all counts. all the same, a little bit better because of the drones .... PPC. "Well and stupid" (c) Zadornov
  10. edvardmiloslavsky
    edvardmiloslavsky 6 December 2018 13: 54
    -3
    from a good device, do not refuse ..

    One of the most discussed topics in recent days has been Egypt’s refusal to purchase Russian Ka-52 attack helicopters in favor of the American AH-64E Apache.

    The official reason was the low quality of Russian technology. In particular, the Egyptians were disappointed in the reliability of power plants, avionics, navigation systems and night vision systems. Also, the Russian Ka-52s, as it turned out, are not adapted for continuous operation in hot climates and very quickly lose their basic power.

    Well, the fears of the Egyptians are clearly not groundless, because we do not know for certain how well the Ka-52 performed in other hot countries, for example, in Syria. All information comes exclusively from Russian propaganda sources, which obviously will not reveal all the shortcomings of these attack helicopters. Only the emergency of May 7, 2018 is known, when, due to a technical malfunction, the Ka-52 crashed in the east of the ATS.

    The rest is known about the Ka-52 crash of March 12, 2012 in the Torzhok district of the Tver region and October 29, 2013, when due to the destruction of the top propeller thrust control the helicopter crashed on the territory of the Flight Test Complex of Kamov OJSC.

    Meanwhile, Egypt became the first country to acquire the Ka-52 from Russia, and the first deliveries of which began in 2017. In principle, this time was quite enough so that the Egyptians could appreciate all the advantages and disadvantages of these helicopters, which the Russian Federation is officially silent about.
    1. Turist1996
      Turist1996 6 December 2018 15: 29
      +3
      When you insert quotes into your comments, it’s purely out of politeness and good breeding that you should quote the quotation marks and indicate the source.
      For example: http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/kiev/pochemu-egipet-otkazalsya-ot-rossiyskih-ka-52-v-polzu-ah-64e-apache.
      Then everyone understands that this quote is from the Ukrobander site, and this news is fake!
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. edvardmiloslavsky
          edvardmiloslavsky 6 December 2018 18: 12
          +1
          Of the 46 machines, Egypt has so far received only 12. The first batch of three helicopters arrived in mid-2017, however, the country's authorities were unsatisfied with their technical characteristics.

          Rosbalt, with reference to the Defense Blog, reports that Russian helicopters had problems with power plants, avionics, navigation systems and night vision systems. During the flight, the cars lost power in a hot climate, and errors in avionics and navigation systems could lead to disaster.

          Now the contract with Russia for the supply of the remaining helicopters is in jeopardy. Egypt plans to order 10 US Apache AH-64E helicopters, engines and spare parts.
    2. Topotun
      Topotun 6 December 2018 15: 31
      +2
      "Also, the Russian Ka-52s, as it turned out, are not adapted for continuous operation in hot climates and very quickly lose their basic power."
      But is the fact that the Russians prefer helicopters for the Afghan army and it is precisely for the reliability of the power plant that is a mistake?
      1. Turist1996
        Turist1996 6 December 2018 15: 38
        0
        Yes, the comrade dragged this news from the Outskirts. Fake, as it turned out.
    3. Turist1996
      Turist1996 6 December 2018 15: 33
      +1
      And then in response to you: https://militaryarms.ru/novosti/egipet-otkazyvaetsya-ot-ka-52/#gallery
    4. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 6 December 2018 15: 45
      +4
      The Egyptians are sitting on Amer’s military aid - 1,5 billion tanks a year for signing peace with Israel in 1979. It is more profitable for them to buy Apaches at the expense of help, rather than pay with cash, with which they have not everything ok, for the Ka-52.
      The thing, it seems to me, is just that.
  11. Professor
    Professor 6 December 2018 14: 00
    +4
    Ka-52 Alligator is the best platform. Point.
    1. Corn
      Corn 6 December 2018 15: 06
      -1
      Israel does not want to buy?
    2. Kurare
      Kurare 6 December 2018 15: 11
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      Ka-52 Alligator is the best platform.

      hi Well, some devices, and not just a clean hardware / platform, the 52nd also boasts.
    3. not main
      not main 6 December 2018 21: 38
      0
      I always respected your point of view, even if it did not coincide with mine! But now...! I regret that I can not instruct the pluses! So that one, but from the heart!
  12. Corn
    Corn 6 December 2018 14: 58
    -2
    As a base, the ka52 looks certainly more promising, but the absence of an ATGM of the 3rd generation, a thermal imager and even a stabilized optoelectronic system (well, at least they communicate it in the future) just put a big cross on this helicopter, like on a modern combat vehicle. Since a super-radar had been installed, this would have been the millimeter range, but what the heck is the x-range helicopter ??? From a shaving flight, ironing defenseless barmaleys with NURSs - this is the limit of combat testing, in the 21st century this is clearly not enough.
    With Apache, everything is exactly the opposite, the simplest platform in modern equipment shows itself quite well.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 6 December 2018 15: 51
      -4
      You can hang on a good platform of these devices as much as you like. The question is who will use it.
      1. Corn
        Corn 6 December 2018 16: 09
        +1
        Already hung, if there was a choice.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 6 December 2018 22: 59
          -1
          The choice ... contact Amir if you are in the know about helicopter affairs)).
    2. abc_alex
      abc_alex 8 December 2018 01: 24
      0
      Quote: Corn
      but the lack of an ATGM of 3 generations, a thermal imager and even a stabilized optoelectronic system (well, at least they communicate to deliver it in the future)



      Eeeee, I'm sorry, but where did you get the lack of all this? The Ka-52 has an infrared channel in the sighting and navigation system now and was originally. First, based on the French thermal imager "Victor", then as part of TOES-520.
      The optical-electronic system GOES-451 which is equipped with the Ka-52 has the letter "G" in the abbreviation, which, contrary to your wishes, does not mean what you think about, but "gyro-stabilized".


      What is a 3rd generation ATGM? Hellfires or what? All these "fire-forget" were given to all. Don't you think that in weapon systems the "shot and hit" principle is more correct? In terms of efficiency, our systems with automatic target tracking and the state ones with autonomous missile guidance are equal, ours are even slightly better.

      Quote: Corn
      Since a super-radar had been installed, this would have been the millimeter range, but why the hell is the x-range helicopter ???


      And where did you get the idea that the RN01 radar of the Arbalet-52 complex, firstly, is not in the millimeter range, and secondly, is something bad? It does an excellent job of detecting and selecting targets at a distance of the helicopter's weapon system, and is capable of tracking up to 20 targets. What's wrong?
      Here is Katran, apparently they will change the radar. He is supposed to be supplied with an X-35 with a range of up to 200 km, this will require another radar, not a millimeter but a centimeter range. Apparently they will push the Beetle there.


      So, I'm sorry, but you drive. And quite stupid, since data on the Ka-52 avionics is on the Web and their car.
  13. Maxwrx
    Maxwrx 6 December 2018 18: 13
    0
    and who buys our helicopters? Venezuela - under US sanctions, Algeria - in fact, sits only on our helicopters, Egypt - did the US when they began to put heavy pressure on them, and the mistrals had to be assembled, now they are talking problems with them. iraq-bought from everyone because urgently needed to be protected from isis. ALL! the whole world with such "perfect" helicopters turned out to be of no use to anyone. and it is not necessary to write that the United States has pushed through everyone. the apatch is objectively more modern, ours are 30 years behind both in electronics and in the tactics of using attack helicopters. for example, a koiva appears for a few seconds and sends a command to the apatches to launch missiles that are OUT of line of sight in the folds of the terrain. Because of the impossibility of creating, our helicopters represent themselves better as attack aircraft (risking their lives), and Apatch work beyond the reach of a retaliatory strike, there is no need to engage in urapatriotism.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 6 December 2018 19: 23
      +2
      Quote: MaxWRX
      and who buys our helicopters? Venezuela - under US sanctions, Algeria - in fact, sits only on our helicopters, Egypt - did the US when they began to put heavy pressure on them, and the mistrals had to be assembled, now they are talking problems with them. iraq-bought from everyone because urgently needed to be protected from isis. ALL! the whole world with such "perfect" helicopters turned out to be of no use to anyone. and it is not necessary to write that the United States has pushed through everyone. the apatch is objectively more modern, ours are 30 years behind both in electronics and in the tactics of using attack helicopters. for example, a koiva appears for a few seconds and sends a command to the apatches to launch missiles that are OUT of line of sight in the folds of the terrain. Because of the impossibility of creating, our helicopters represent themselves better as attack aircraft (risking their lives), and Apatch work beyond the reach of a retaliatory strike, there is no need to engage in urapatriotism.

      You are theorizing, but I had to come under attack from the Mi-24 - it's just a kapets! If we moved, we would be smeared. Not for us, of course, there was a flight, but if they found it, they wouldn't ask. With the United States, the technique is slightly "sharpened" for different things, understanding comes with education, not everyone was given the opportunity to finish the VHUZ, this is understandable.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  14. Dr. Bermental
    Dr. Bermental 7 December 2018 12: 20
    0
    no one really knows, and everyone writes!)) then whoever saw it before won
  15. Doliva63
    Doliva63 7 December 2018 18: 28
    0
    Quote: Thunderbolt
    Quote: Doliva63
    Doliva63 (Valentine)

    The transmission is there, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6g43V3BLD4A very clear example that the battle in the city is continued by either the most numerous or the most skillful. So, the first Guards Assault - it is in every district /// or should be /// However ... it is not evening yet as mine sang musical idol. I believe that in each direction there will be special brigades, attack aircraft are very necessary, because. heavy battles for the troops are taking place in the city building. It is not for nothing that it is called the "field" charter of the RKKA, Comrade Valentin. //// Having broken these fellows into companies, you can pour them into their usual motorized riflemen up to the battalion. cities have to be taken under any numerology /// Armies love to take cities, they adore /// So /// if this "and so" is appropriate when addressing me to you. I believe that such engineering and assault brigades will appear in the South and in the East. It seems to me that they will develop all this efficiently.

    My father fought in the 320 assault regiment of the 53rd Army of 2 Ukrainian. How they took Budapest, remembered forever. Street names, house numbers. But when they transferred to intelligence, there the tasks and tactics are different. I about it.
  16. abc_alex
    abc_alex 8 December 2018 02: 08
    0
    Quote: MaxWRX
    and who buys our helicopters? Venezuela - under US sanctions, Algeria - in fact, sits only on our helicopters, Egypt - did the US when they began to put heavy pressure on them, and the mistrals had to be assembled, now they are talking problems with them. iraq-bought from everyone because urgently needed to be protected from isis. ALL! the whole world with such "perfect" helicopters turned out to be of no use to anyone. and it is not necessary to write that the United States has pushed through everyone. the apatch is objectively more modern, ours are 30 years behind both in electronics and in the tactics of using attack helicopters. for example, a koiva appears for a few seconds and sends a command to the apatches to launch missiles that are OUT of line of sight in the folds of the terrain. Because of the impossibility of creating, our helicopters represent themselves better as attack aircraft (risking their lives), and Apatch work beyond the reach of a retaliatory strike, there is no need to engage in urapatriotism.


    There will be enough Hollywood and let's tell fairy tales ... Shooting from behind the folds of the terrain ... And that Hellfire is equipped with a terrain bending system? ;) Does the term "semi-active laser guidance system" in Hellfire's description strike you with any thoughts?
    But apparently meant AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire. So you can shoot and forget with such a rocket, moreover, "like in a kin from around the corner" you can at a fixed, distant target, the rocket will receive a range and azimuth from the computer, after the start it will fly according to the inertial system until it captures the target.
    In other cases, the rocket will have to lead. At the rocket, you see a very narrow viewing angle, and if in this case you forget it after the shot, it may well forget why it was sent. ;)
    Yes, and to start from around the corner still have to go out. Not for long. But the whole carcass. For the missile loop does not know how to twist and aerobatics are not trained.

    No doubt, the rocket is good. But fairy tales are not necessary.

    By the way, how long does the attack fly to a range limit of 6 km? At a speed of 550 m \ s. Right, 11 seconds. During this time, the operator of MANPADS is not something to take aim, they will not have time to understand anything really.
    And what is the use of the firing mode because of the terrain on the European theater? No one is right, since the Grand Canyon cannot be brought here with you. And to bump between houses and gullies on, as you wrote, ApaтTh, can only heroes of the movie militants.
    In most cases, an attack helicopter will hang above the battlefield at altitude. Not kilometers, of course. but in tens or hundreds of meters. So he sees better. And then he does not need all these jumps due to folds.

    Funny you write ... Koiva ... Apatch ... Unusual for Russian hearing. Kiowa like this helicopter is called. I have not heard that it was used as a Longbow target designator.

    I don’t know who “yours” is there, but to consider anti-Barmalian twists and turns and jumps as a breakthrough in the tactics of using helicopters ... Well, I don’t know ...
    1. svp67
      svp67 8 December 2018 04: 29
      0
      Quote: abc_alex
      Yes, and to start from around the corner still have to go out. Not for long. But the whole carcass.

      And the option when one helicopter directs and controls, while the other or the other acts as a simple launch pad, are you not considering?
      Quote: abc_alex
      During this time, the operator of MANPADS is not something to take aim, they will not have time to understand anything really.

      One "but", as already pointed out many questions, is the control channel of this missile - the radio channel. With the current development of means of radio suppression, this channel with a high probability can be suppressed and the participation of the MANPADS operator is simply not needed.
      Quote: abc_alex
      And what is the use of the firing mode because of the terrain on the European theater?

      Very big. The European theater is replete with afforestation, from their fringes helicopters in the hover mode may well be used. So not only can you use such a machine for guidance, and turntables as platforms for launching


      1. abc_alex
        abc_alex 10 December 2018 01: 52
        0
        Quote: svp67
        And the option when one helicopter directs and controls, while the other or the other acts as a simple launch pad, are you not considering?


        And what's so good about that? Under attack, instead of an attack helicopter, a designator helicopter falls. This scheme was considered by the creators of the Ka-50. Not from a good life, of course, but because of a lag in the development of the sighting system. And then the simulation showed its promise for combined arms combat. For anti-Barmalean actions, yes. But then backlighting from the infantry is better. She is more secretive.

        Quote: svp67
        One "but", as already pointed out many questions, is the control channel of this missile - the radio channel. With the current development of means of radio suppression, this channel with a high probability can be suppressed and the participation of the MANPADS operator is simply not needed.


        I will not say for all ATGM domestic production. I can say for the Storm Attack. The missile has two control channels: a radio command and a laser beam. The laser, you know, is pretty well protected. A radio channel, although it does not have special protection schemes, but has characteristics that make its suppression extremely difficult. The equipment necessary for this should not be brought in a backpack in a jeep or in a tank. And special radio suppression systems are not everywhere. Moreover, the laser channel will remain.

        Quote: svp67
        Very big. The European theater is replete with afforestation, from their fringes helicopters in the hover mode may well be used. So not only can you use such a machine for guidance, and turntables as platforms for launching


        Hang below the tops of the trees? No, in the movies they do it at a time. But in life, a helicopter at such an altitude is very unstable. Nobody will do that. This is an elementary accident.



        And why in this case a helicopter? The same Hfayer is installed on terrestrial and even surface carriers.