Military Review

Shortbridge Project for like-minded people

218
We are tired of walking in children,
And I appeal to the country

Give weapon brave
And first of all - me!
Mikhail Svetlov, Soviet front-line poet




My friends still keep a colorful brochure on glossy paper, which was released and distributed in Moscow for the Olympics-80. There are questions that foreigners can ask Muscovites, and give answers to them so that you can adequately represent our country. So I decided to do something like a memo to supporters of personal armed self-defense so that they could not go after the word in their pockets in disputes with our opponents, especially since all the answers to their attacks have long been given, in detail and in various ways, by us on the basis of facts and numbers

Our opponents have the same manner as if this is the same thing that has never been discussed, so let our people have the opportunity for this repetition to immediately give answers and demand answers to questions arising from our answers. From personal experience, I can say that such an approach is always effective and makes us lose or wag our opponents, piling up absurdities, which compromise them perfectly in the eyes of those who follow our disputes, developing their own opinions.

Sometimes, unfortunately, I have to note the lack of attention of my like-minded people in the comments of various articles on the web. This is expressed in that it is quite enough for the attacks of opponents for a worthy answer to cite a suitable quote directly from the material being discussed, and to demand an answer from the opponent already to your answer, and even asking him with a sarcastic phrase: what did he try? notice?

Based on the foregoing, I suggest that like-minded people with me in several publications prepare for all of us all the answers to all the attacks of hoplofobs, so that each of us copied these materials to himself, and then, in our endless disputes on the Internet, as soon as he starts to twist the hoplofob his hackneyed record, immediately in response to him issuing a suitable quote from the memo created by all of us, or forcing him to argue more difficult, but oh how difficult it is, or ... he just lost his bewilderment. How many times convinced of this when he participated in such "battles".

To this it should be added that none of us should get excited in such discussions. No need to set a goal to somehow convince hoplofobs, because this is just a different human psycho from us, which is organically unable to live and think like us. And we are just ashamed to disgust for the fact that now the government and most of the media are controlled by their like-minded people. The task is to make the majority of the conscious population in the country imbued with our worldview. And this majority is now at least with serious interest, although silently, following our disputes. This is indicated by the excellent ratings of views of all materials on the subject of personal civilian armed self-defense. Therefore, our disputes with hoplofes should be made as organized and developed as possible, completely “undressing” our opponents in the eyes of the audience. And it is not at all necessary to convince anyone specifically, just calmly and systematically refute the hoplofobs, and they themselves will further agitate for our further behavior, because thinking and very intelligent people tend to follow our disputes.

Below, I present the main set of Hoplofobs' attacks, the very "broken record", and my answers to them. If my answers seem somewhat incomplete, then please, welcome. I will reflect all practical additions with gratitude in subsequent publications of our general memo. Look for and provide links to facts and materials, convincingly confirming our point of view. This is also very suitable for future reference. So let's go!

1. Russian in the mass are uncultured, prone to drunkenness, rudeness and incontinence. They trust weapon dangerous.

In Russia, 5 million legal rifles are on hand, 500 thousand traumatic pistols, almost 10 million illegal barrels, and crime with their use is literally single. In addition, in the Baltic States, Moldova, Georgia is full of Russians, civilian short-barred, and no "horrors" are allowed. Are Russians different there? At the same time, in terms of the number of criminal killings among the population, Russia is in one of the first places in the world, far ahead of countries with legal civilian self-defense weapons, including the former republics of the Soviet Union, where the short-barred was allowed. And about the rudeness, drunkenness, lack of culture and the psychopathic nature of their people, hoplofobs are absolutely annoying in all countries: from England, France, the USA to the Baltic states and Japan. This is not surprising, because the people are not trusted and only weak people who have high self-esteem and unwarranted life claims are afraid of it.

2. If you allow a short-bar, then it will be immediately bought by criminals and psychos, and they will receive authorizing certificates for bribes from corrupt police officers and doctors. Or they will start attacking people in order to take possession of their pistols.

When in the post-Soviet and post-socialist states the shortbag was resolved, the question of corrupt doctors and policemen was also, it was adjusted simply: if the gun they resolved fired in the hands of a criminal or psycho, they lose their profession and get a prison sentence, because you can see who gave out, knowing in advance what hands the purchased gun would fall into. And the best-selling doctors and policemen simply thought that they would never receive large bribes for help, but for a small thing it would be stupid and ridiculous to jeopardize a career with freedom. And in general, why would a criminal have a legal pistol? To immediately get caught when it is applied? Why take the gun from the owner, if you can safely buy it on the black market, without risking that the gun owner will fight you back or remember you for the police, or will the police catch you after the attack at the crime scene? However, this Hoplofobsky opinion can be understood ... Now the power of their like-minded people, so it is weak. Here are the hoplofobs and think that in resolving personal armed self-defense, the power will remain the same as it is now, which means that it will be unable to ensure either integrity or security.

3. In countries where citizens ’access to arms is freer, mass killings occur regularly. Do you want it to start in Russia?

Attempts of mass murder by maniacs and terrorists occasionally occur in any countries, regardless of any bans on weapons, and in Russia too. Moreover, such killers always try to appear where they know for sure that they will not receive an armed rebuff. In the same America, mass murderers come to places where they know for sure that they will not shoot back, where ordinary citizens are forbidden to show up with their weapons. During the events in Budennovsk, Basayev’s terrorists didn’t attack the local military unit and even the local police station, but captured the hospital. In China, all firearms are banned, so local maniacs appear in schools and kindergartens with knives and axes. And sometimes they kill much more than from a firearm before they are stopped. But in Switzerland and Israel there are no zones free from armed people. So there are no massacres, all such attempts are stopped immediately by armed citizens almost always before the appearance of the police. According to American police statistics, forty percent of American prisoners are scared, injured or detained during crimes by armed citizens, and many mass psychopathic shootings have been prevented by them. These data have been cited for many years by the National Rifle Association of the United States when there hopophobes try to encroach on civilian weapons. The same data diligently hush up hopophobes, which saddled almost all American and European leading media.

4. Among the owners of civilian weapons may increase the risk of accidents due to him.

If you talk like that, then first of all you need to ban private cars, the statistics of accidents due to them will always overwhelmingly exceed the number of misfortunes for any other reasons. Moreover, such "care" from the side of hoplofobs is offensive in principle! By acquiring a weapon, a person consciously assumes all the risks and all the responsibilities associated with it, he is not a child, and the state has nothing to reduce it to.

5. After the permission of the pistols, their owners will be massively put on trial for violating the law on the limits of necessary defense.

Even now, the courts are constantly imprisoning us for exceeding these "limits", often contrary to common sense! Just need to change the law. By the way, on this issue in our country among the citizens is now almost complete agreement, with this, even those who are against the legalization of the short-barrels agree. But the hoplofobs in power are not openly noticed. Interestingly, is it from their side so arrogance or such nonsense?

6. Do you think traumatic pistols are not enough?

Injuries should be banned altogether. You can kill them, but they will not defend themselves. In addition, the bullet from the injury without a sleeve can not be identified, and the sleeve after the murder is easy to hide. No wonder travmaty as a civilian weapon in other countries is prohibited almost everywhere. There it is the weapon of police professionals to keep criminals alive. And we, in Russia, again put our pants over my head.

7. Are you being killed, raped, robbed every day?

And what, in this case, are you ready to allow personal armed self-defense with a personal shortbore? No, of course they kill, rape, rob and kill around the country every day, but not everyone, but this danger is every day for everyone, and we are ashamed in case of danger of being guaranteed helpless, as it is now. And you, gentlemen hoplofoby, why is it not a shame?

8. Criminals will take away guns from legal owners.

Something anywhere in the world is not observed. This for you, hoplofobs, criminals are invincible supermen, and we do not consider them as such. So prove to us your point of view by allowing us normal pistols, and then we'll see ... If we are wrong, we can prohibit everything again. Eh? How do you like this option, gentlemen hoplofoby?

9. We all pay taxes to the state, so let it be our security structures and provides us with security.

Russia is the number of security forces in relation to the population in one of the first places in the world. Their content is very expensive. The country is forced to withdraw this money from the economy, education and culture. What objectively creates the preconditions for the growth of crime. Where when when stories and in which countries it was only possible by the state to create not even absolute, but at least an acceptable level of security for the entire population? And in general, gentlemen hoplofoby, why do not you want to demand that the state wipe your noses, change diapers and nipple feeding? By the way here link on the latest and very interesting research material on this topic! I invite everyone to read and comment.

This is the basic set of nine points listed. If you need to add more points, suggest. Answers point by point can also be developed and supplemented, I will summarize all this in the following publications. I'm waiting!

PS Recently, Maria Butina, the founder of the "Right to Arms" movement, was once again sent to solitary confinement in an American prison for no reason. But what's wrong with that? They just break. And our state in response only utters miserable words, demonstrating its helplessness. And our domestic hoplophobes do not hesitate to repeat the fabrications of the American press against Maria on the net, and even add their own, I will not quote these "tops" of baseness here. On November 10, Maria celebrated her birthday in prison. I think that it should be morally supported. Her father, Valery Butin, is allowed to communicate with his daughter relatively regularly, here is his address: [email protected], send your words of encouragement and support to Mary, she will know about them. In the picture, Maria cuts the anniversary cake with the Right to Arms logo at the congress of the movement in 2014, when the organization received the status of an All-Russian organization, creating its branches in most regions of Russia.

PPS Detailed comments on this material from opponents are in demand and welcome! Shyly, I propose no longer informing me, as it always happens, to which I am bored, for such messages already remind the princess from the movie “Ordinary Miracle” at the moment when she declares: “I have been chasing you for three days to say how you are I don’t care! I will prove it to you ... I will die, but I will prove it! "

Shortbridge Project for like-minded people
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  1. Squelcher
    Squelcher 3 December 2018 06: 11
    -16
    In America, more than 300 million units of registered small arms are in the hands of the population, and buying a gun in some states is no more difficult than going to the supermarket for bread. Therefore, the police’s psychological readiness for armed resistance is a condition of survival for them. The North Carolina patrol tried to stop the car for speeding. But the driver, who turned out to be deaf-mute, did not notice the police car and continued driving, stopping only at his house. There he got out of the car and, seeing the patrolman, tried to explain himself with gestures. A few moments later a shot rang out. The victim was unarmed, but the policeman opened fire because he was walking towards him and did not obey instructions. In this case, cases of criminal prosecution or convictions in court against police officers in excess of authority - a rarity.
    I don’t want our policemen to be like that, because of the "short-barrels".
    1. Squelcher
      Squelcher 3 December 2018 06: 52
      -4
      Well, to correctly answer "Khlopofobou" is not a coin, you can only put a minus "bravely" :)
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 3 December 2018 14: 04
        +21
        Quote: Squelcher
        Well, to correctly answer "Khlopofobou" is not a coin, you can only put a minus "bravely" :)

        We can. The author in the article replied. It just annoyed you to repeat because you are not listening.
      2. Talgarets
        Talgarets 4 December 2018 12: 10
        +7
        It is not a matter of the police’s psychological readiness, but of their rights, the policeman simply complied with the instructions. In which I must have previously signed up for an introduction.
      3. Wolverine
        Wolverine 5 December 2018 11: 56
        +6
        Quote: Squelcher
        Well, to correctly answer "Khlopofobou" is not a coin, you can only put a minus "bravely" :)


        You cited as an example one case per million, roughly speaking, here we must fight against the improvement of professional qualities of the police themselves, spectacles and the mentally unbalanced, alcoholics, sadists, rapists and others among the cops that in the USA there is enough in Russia.
        1. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 6 December 2018 10: 27
          +2
          I do not believe in this case. He is not blind! Flashing lights are VERY hard to miss!
          Could come up with a case with loud music in the car.
      4. magosvel
        magosvel 17 December 2018 00: 07
        0
        Ssykun police officer exceeded the limits of "self-defense".
    2. meandr51
      meandr51 3 December 2018 08: 33
      +22
      Their cops are not because of legally armed citizens, but because of the large number of criminals armed with illegal weapons. We have so much never and never will be. Criminals almost always use illegal weapons, which they then throw out.
      1. Squelcher
        Squelcher 3 December 2018 10: 26
        0
        Especially legal short-barreled weapons can be made illegal by taking or stealing them from the next "Rambo".
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 12: 08
          +15
          Quote: Squelcher
          To make a weapon particularly legal for a short-barrel illegal by taking or stealing it

          Why would a criminal need to risk trying to steal or take away a legal weapon from its rightful owner if it is much easier to buy illegal weapons?
          1. Consultant
            Consultant 3 December 2018 15: 01
            -1
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            Why would a criminal need to risk trying to steal or take away a legal weapon from its rightful owner if it is much easier to buy illegal weapons?

            Why should a criminal take risks trying to take a mobile phone from the owner if it is much easier to buy a used mobile phone? Or even a new one? wink

            But mobile phones, meanwhile, regularly wring out request
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 19: 37
              +13
              Quote: Consultant
              Why should a criminal take risks trying to take a mobile phone from the owner if it is much easier to buy a used mobile phone?

              You substitute concepts, firstly, a legal regulation mobile phone is not at all close to weapons, and secondly, tell me, is it possible to try to squeeze a mobile phone out of being shot from a mobile phone? Completely shot. To death. Finally.
              And, well, more, cars are constantly stealing, a mess, urgently need to ban private vehicles.
              Quote: Consultant
              But mobile phones, meanwhile, regularly wring out

              And please give me statistics on how many legal trunks have been squeezed over, say, the last 10 years, after all there are more than 5 million of them on hand.
              1. Consultant
                Consultant 3 December 2018 20: 23
                -13
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                You are replacing concepts

                On the contrary, I try to think precisely in the framework of the logic you are imposing:

                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Why would a criminal need to risk trying to steal or take away a legal weapon from its rightful owner if it is much easier to buy illegal weapons?

                We replace the word "weapon" with "mobile phone". Also - it's easier and safer to buy than to rob, but, no less - they rob request

                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                and yet, cars are constantly stealing, a mess, urgently need to ban private vehicles.

                You said it, not me. Do not pass off your "creatives" as someone else's (in this case, mine) thoughts, otherwise they will write you down as trolls.

                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Please give me statistics on how many legal trunks were squeezed out for ...

                This is generally irrelevant.

                I want an answer to the question - how do you think a robbery on a mobile phone is fundamentally different from a robbery on a holy COP?
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 22: 19
                  +10
                  Quote: Consultant
                  On the contrary, I try to think precisely in the framework of the logic you are imposing:

                  It's a delusion.
                  Quote: Consultant
                  We replace the word "weapon" with "mobile phone". Also - it's easier and safer to buy than to rob, but, no less - they rob

                  It is you who are trying to impose your logic and replace the subject of discussion, although in terms of their legal status and possible impact on the attacker, these subjects are incomparable.
                  Quote: Consultant
                  You said it, not me. Do not pass off your "creatives" as someone else's (in this case, mine) thoughts, otherwise they will write you down as trolls.

                  In this example, I just pointed out to you the inadmissibility of substituting the object of discussion, although a car in terms of legal status and level of danger is much closer to a weapon than a mobile phone. So follow your advice and stop trolling and passing off your "creatives" as something meaningful and related to objective reality.
                  Quote: Consultant
                  This is generally irrelevant.

                  Yes schazzz !!! You constantly write that the bandits will take away weapons from their rightful owners, and my desire to see statistics confirming your thesis is quite appropriate and legitimate! So try, my dear, please give me statistics on how many legal trunks have been squeezed over, say, the last 10 years, in support of your statement.
                  Quote: Consultant
                  I want an answer to the question - how do you think a robbery on a mobile phone is fundamentally different from a robbery on a holy COP?

                  I want an answer to the question - are you personally ready to try to squeeze the cop, or the mobile, knowing that I or any passerby can shoot you with a pistol in the process like a dog? And I also want to answer the question - HOW do you shoot an attacker who encroached on you or your loved ones from the phone?
                  I hope I could answer your question?
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Rakti-kali
                      Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 00: 47
                      +3
                      Quote: Consultant
                      No. And your attempt to chat is a simple question

                      Justify, or can you just not carry bags?
                      Quote: Consultant
                      Damage to the logic of fans of the COP and yours specifically.

                      At least I have logic, you have not yet demonstrated such a skill.
                      Quote: Consultant
                      Your inability to use the Goldreier's cheat sheet (see article)

                      I have my opinion on this issue, so I do not need cribs.

                      Well and more
                      Quote: Consultant
                      your attempt to chat

                      Quote: Consultant
                      Damage to the logic of fans of the COP and yours specifically.

                      Quote: Consultant
                      Your inability to apply

                      You began to talk about me so much that I just cannot help but recall that the transition to discussing the opponent’s personality is characteristic of demagogues and incompetent persons who are not able to logically substantiate their point of view.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. your1970
                    your1970 4 December 2018 12: 34
                    -3
                    Quote: Rakti-Kali
                    Yes schazzz !!! You constantly write that the bandits will take away weapons from their rightful owners, and my desire to see statistics confirming your thesis is quite appropriate and legitimate! So try, my dear, please give me statistics on how many legal trunks have been squeezed over, say, the last 10 years, in support of your statement.
                    - And how many of the KSa units will be in the safe around the clock, and even very often under the control panel alarm?
                    Do you remember the storage conditions of the smoothbore? Naturally, they are not stolen massively difficult enough.
                    If the owners of KSa will store it on a smooth-bore - and they will practically not steal it
                    But since they will not buy it for that - they will steal and the more KSa in hand, the more
                  3. aws4
                    aws4 5 December 2018 00: 25
                    -5
                    just as injuries are being taken away, and at that time when the fools already got it. and now the situation, I’ve copied that you’re with a barrel .. you already provoked me to come click on your jaw (often gopniks even possess this blow and practice it) and take possession of a combat pistol while you recover ... for reference if you don’t know what to knock out a person it’s not necessary to beat him with all his strength .. an unexpected, quick and accurate blow to the chin gives me 99% of the result I checked repeatedly ... and judging by the author of the article, he’ll take away the trunk laughing By the way, to be completely honest, I only read the floor of the article because I’m already familiar with the author and his writings .. I’m tired and tired of whining .. they don’t give him a gun laughing he wants to feel like a man among males bigger and bolder than he is ... and in scream I will try very hard not to read your articles and not to write coma under them .. sorry to get into your dreams and reasoning ...)))))
              2. Tank hard
                Tank hard 3 December 2018 22: 37
                +7
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                tell me, is it possible when trying to squeeze a cellphone to be shot from a cellphone?

                Here is a not very big example ..: Jewelry store, one guard in the hall with a service pistol in a holster, the holster is closed (this is not your operative), the gun is on the guard, the cartridge has not been sent, because it is impossible. In my opinion, this is just a gift for serious guys who want to get hold of the trunk, not more difficult than a mobile phone. request
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 00: 52
                  +5
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  Here is a not very big example ..: Jewelry store, one guard in the hall with a service pistol in a holster, the holster is closed (this is not your operative), the gun is on the guard, the cartridge has not been sent, because it is impossible. In my opinion, this is just a gift for serious guys who want to get hold of the trunk, not more difficult than a mobile phone.

                  Why this example? Let us then disarm the police patrols, they also have a "service pistol in a holster, the holster is closed (this is not an operative for you), the pistol is on safety, the cartridge is not sent, because it is impossible. In my opinion, this is just a gift for serious guys who want to get hold of the barrel, not much harder than a cell phone. "
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  Is it really so easy to buy illegal?

                  And what is easier to take the gun from the person who shoots at you from this gun?
                  1. Tank hard
                    Tank hard 4 December 2018 07: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: Rakti-Kali
                    Why this example?

                    And to the fact that possession of a short-barrel (for example) does not guarantee against attack, does not "guarantee" it protects + increases the risk of being attacked for the sake of taking possession of a weapon for further illegal use of this weapon.
                    Quote: Rakti-Kali
                    And what is easier to take the gun from the person who shoots at you from this gun?

                    Personally, I would try to dump somewhere (if that would be possible), and not enter into confrontation with an armed enemy without proper training (and I would have avoided the preparation).
                    All this IMHO and follows from the personal experience and the experience of my friends.
                    1. Rakti-kali
                      Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 08: 25
                      +5
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      possession of a short-barrel (for example), does not guarantee against attack, does not "guarantee"

                      AND? Studying at a university does not guarantee employment, do you propose to close universities? The task of the Constitutional Court is not to guarantee the absence of an attack, but to increase the chance to repel such an attack. Moreover, statistics show that in countries where the free circulation of cops is allowed, street crime is reduced, which just increases the guarantee of non-aggression.
                      as for the guarantee of protection, training and practice in the shooting range significantly increase the chances of successful self-defense with weapons.
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      increases the risk of being attacked for the sake of taking possession of weapons

                      That yoklmn .... HOW an attacker finds out that a person is armed, if a person carries a weapon Secretly! ???
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      Personally, I would try to dump somewhere (if that would be possible), and not enter into a confrontation

                      This is absolutely the right decision! But what if you cannot "dump", if your wife is next to you with a stroller in which your child is in, or you cannot run away because running on prostheses is damn inconvenient or a defenseless child was attacked in front of your eyes?
                      1. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 4 December 2018 08: 39
                        +3
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        Moreover, statistics show that in countries where the free turnover of the cops is allowed, street crime is reduced,

                        Maybe weapons in general (otherwise the emphasis is on the cop)? I’ll add right away. I'm not an opponent of weapons at all, I'm even for saigas in the house wink ... But why KS, if there is a knife, Wasp, gas balloon? Much more necessary is the law allowing "worthy self-defense."
                      2. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 08: 59
                        +5
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        Maybe weapons in general (otherwise the emphasis is on the cop)?

                        It's about the cop and hidden wearing.
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        But just why the COP, if there is a knife, Wasp, gas bottle?

                        KS allows you to defend with maximum efficiency with minimal capabilities. The knife is very demanding on skills and physical condition, injuries are generally evil (I have already explained why many times, therefore I won’t repeat myself), a gas ballon in 99% of cases will do more damage to the defender because it is highly dependent on temperature, wind, and the volume of the room (for example, in winter, even police special equipment is not very effective, but they do not spray puff, but such a good stream).
                      3. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 4 December 2018 09: 14
                        -3
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        KS allows you to defend with maximum efficiency with minimum capabilities

                        With current legislation, money is wasted. IMHO.
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        The knife is very demanding on skills and physical condition,

                        Much easier than boxing, even a girl can. And skills with weapons are needed, and health.
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        injuries are generally evil

                        The topic is controversial, but here everyone is talking about his ...
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        in 99% of cases, a gas balloon will do more harm to the defender because it is highly dependent on temperature, wind, and room volume (for example, even in winter police special equipment is not very effective, because they do not spray puff, but a good jet).

                        Again it is very controversial and depends on brains and skills.
                        PS Under current legislation, the COP is meaningless. For they’ll put him like a knife, but the device will cost more. request
                      4. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 17: 29
                        +2
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        With current legislation, money is wasted.

                        Google article 37 of the Criminal Code, at the same time article 38 and art. 39. Everything is fine with legislation.
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        Much easier than boxing, even a girl can. And skills with weapons are needed, and health.

                        The knife is very demanding on skills and physical condition. The knife has an extremely small stopping effect and is very lethal if stabbing is done, this leads to the fact that the attacker, even after receiving multiple stab wounds, does not stop the attack (I saw a man who wounded with a knife in the chest took this knife from the attacker and he several times hit, both were wounded in the heart, the attacker subsequently died), but at the same time the probability of his death is very high (almost 70%). A pistol, even a small-caliber one, has a much greater stopping effect than a knife, which is very important for an early cessation of the attack, but the survival rate among gun wounded is much higher than that of a knife wounded in the same USA; almost 3/4 of criminals wounded from pistols survive when they are suppressed illegal actions. By the way, among opponents of the Constitutional Court it is fashionable to write that they say self-defense with shotguns, and so the survival rate of wounded from a shotgun is less than 20%.
                        As for the skills of handling the COP, the supporters of the COP insist on compulsory training and the subsequent maintenance of skills within the framework of at least the same association of sports shooting.
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        The topic is controversial, but here everyone is talking about his ...

                        For me, no, I have long understood that it is too difficult to protect oneself with the help of an injury by law, but to kill with it is too easy.
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        Under current legislation, the COP is meaningless. For they’ll put him like a knife, but the device will cost more.

                        Read Articles 37, 38, 39 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and Resolution of the Plenum of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation of September 27.09.2012, 19 N XNUMX "On the application by courts of legislation on necessary defense and harm during the arrest of a person who has committed a crime", they do not confirm this your thesis.
                      5. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 4 December 2018 22: 26
                        -2
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        The knife is very demanding on skills and physical condition.

                        No, I’m claiming that a person has a belt according to KOI, but it’s your right to believe or not ..
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        The knife has an extremely small stopping effect and is very lethal if stabbing is done, this leads to the fact that the attacker even after receiving multiple stab wounds does not stop the attack (

                        Here I agree, but here is some video for consideration ..:

                        We look carefully, read comment under the video necessarilydraw conclusions ...
                      6. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 5 December 2018 08: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        No, I’m claiming that a person has a belt according to KOI, but it’s your right to believe or not ..

                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        here is some video for consideration

                        Actually the video confirms my thesis, the person in the video uses the knife quite competently, does not swing it like a hoe, but uses the movement of the legs and body to hit, hits at an angle so that the blade does not rest against the edge (but here you need experience if the angle is too big then the blade can not only slip along the edges but even turn out of the palm of your hand). But even this will not stop the attacker quickly enough to guarantee the absence of injuries to the defender.
                      7. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 5 December 2018 08: 55
                        -2
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        But even this will not stop the attacker quickly enough to guarantee the absence of injuries to the defender.

                        Since you didn’t see it on the video, there are explanations for those who do not understand the video. True, some simply do not want to understand. request
                      8. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 5 December 2018 09: 28
                        +2
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        Since you didn’t see it on the video, there are explanations for those who do not understand the video. True, some simply do not want to understand.

                        In order to cause a "sharp, abrupt drop in pressure and most likely either instantaneous or very rapid death," you need to very accurately get into a fairly small area and practically cut off the arteries extending from the aorta. In order to perform such a blow, you need to have a proven skill. What else could I not see there?
                      9. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 5 December 2018 09: 31
                        -3
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        In order to execute such a blow, you need to have an acquired skill. What else could I not see there?

                        It’s useless for some to explain ... yes
                      10. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 5 December 2018 09: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        It’s useless for some to explain

                        I appreciate your self-criticism. good
                      11. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 5 December 2018 09: 14
                        -1
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        But even this will not stop the attacker quickly enough to guarantee the absence of injuries to the defender.

                        Under the video there is an explanation, under the name of the author it is located, you must click on the word MORE. the answer will be expanded.
                        Experts also know that people who think will understand after viewing, for the rest the author made an exhaustive (in my opinion) explanation, and for some it’s useless to explain ... request
                      12. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 4 December 2018 08: 56
                        +3
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        That yoklmn ...

                        The trouble is that you can’t put into the head of a villain who has attacked you. If you slam an enemy from Wasp into the head, it is unlikely that he will continue the attack, but it is impossible by law, even you can’t shoot at the buttocks request , it is criminal responsibility. Do you think that the cop will be allowed? The law must be changed IMHO. Then the Wasp will be enough for me, "for the eyes." yes
                      13. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 17: 34
                        +4
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        The trouble is that you can’t put into the head of a villain who has attacked you.

                        KS is not a trauma, it does not have the designation "weapon of limited destruction", that is, short-barreled weapons and barrelless weapons intended for mechanical destruction of a live target at a distance by the thrown equipment of a cartridge of traumatic action, receiving directional movement due to the energy of a powder or other charge, and not intended to cause death to man, The COP is intended to cause death to a person and may not have restrictions imposed on the LLC.
                      14. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 4 December 2018 22: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        The COP is intended to cause death to a person and may not have restrictions imposed on the LLC.

                        And what do you think, someone will allow the Constitutional Court in the Russian Federation?
                      15. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 4 December 2018 22: 11
                        -1
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        KS is not a trauma, it does not have the designation "weapon of limited destruction", that is, short-barreled weapons and barrelless weapons intended for mechanical destruction of a living target at a distance with a traumatic cartridge thrown equipment, receiving directional movement due to the energy of a powder or other charge, and not intended for causing death to a person, the COP is intended for causing death to a person and cannot have restrictions imposed on the LLC.

                        You painted everything so beautifully, I’m not joking, but why then are the COPs not allowed?
                      16. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 5 December 2018 08: 21
                        +3
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        And what do you think, someone will allow the Constitutional Court in the Russian Federation?

                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        but why then the COP is not allowed?

                        Honestly, I do not know whether the Constitutional Court will be legalized in Russia in the short or medium term, rather “no” than “yes”. Why? Due to the reluctance and inability of the modern leadership of the Russian Federation to deal with practical issues of state and social structure, it is much easier to rename the police as the police than to do real work to improve its efficiency, and distract all these "little things" from the real concerns of our powers that be - personal enrichment. Its role is also played by the fact that in modern Russia the possession of short-barreled weapons is a certain sign of elitism (top government officials, deputies, judges have the right to the Constitutional Court) and these new "nobles" do not want to level the rest of the population with themselves.
                    2. Ross xnumx
                      Ross xnumx 4 December 2018 09: 48
                      +4
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      And to the fact that possession of a short-barrel (for example) does not guarantee against attack, does not "guarantee" it protects + increases the risk of being attacked for the sake of taking possession of a weapon for further illegal use of this weapon.

                      Owning a short barrel guarantees protection against several robbers, from the attack of a dog set against you (or a dog attacking you whose owner does not take any measures), from the attack of a group of hooligans armed with knives or using sticks, bats, etc.
                      Quote: Tank Hard
                      Personally, I would try to dump somewhere (if that would be possible), and not enter into confrontation with an armed enemy without proper training (and I would have avoided the preparation).
                      All this IMHO and follows from the personal experience and the experience of my friends.

                      Korotkostvol and is not intended for hunting armed criminals. Let law enforcement do this. He protects the owner from violent encroachment on his honor, dignity, health and personal property. By the way, if there are driving schools, why do you exclude the emergence of schools for training in the possession of weapons (short barrel)?
                      1. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 4 December 2018 10: 14
                        +1
                        Quote: ROSS 42
                        Owning a short barrel guarantees protection against several robbers, from the attack of a dog set against you (or a dog attacking you whose owner does not take any measures), from the attack of a group of hooligans armed with knives or using sticks, bats, etc.

                        It does not guarantee, apparently you were not in a similar situation ... request
                        Quote: ROSS 42
                        He protects the owner from violent encroachment on his honor, dignity, health and personal property.

                        Unfortunately it does not protect ... request
                        Quote: ROSS 42
                        By the way, if there are driving schools, why do you exclude the emergence of schools for training in the possession of weapons (short barrel)?

                        These "schools" have been around for a long time. Pay money and "learn" ... yes
                        You, apparently, did not read the thread very carefully ...
                        But in my opinion, the trouble is not in the Constitutional Court, but in the legislation of the Russian Federation, which does not allow "self-defense with dignity." repeat
                      2. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 5 December 2018 09: 36
                        -2
                        Quote: ROSS 42
                        Owning a short barrel guarantees protection against several burglars,

                        Quote: ROSS 42
                        from an attack by a group of hooligans armed with knives

                        Here is an example of a cinematic but worthy, in life it is even cooler. In such a situation, the short barrel will not help either. We must understand that the hero of the video is a boxer, a master of his craft and able to withstand the group ...
            2. Witness 45
              Witness 45 6 December 2018 19: 52
              0
              That is why they are "squeezed out" because the victim of the robbery has nothing to respond to the violence, and if there was something, there would be less of this.
            3. ver_
              ver_ 8 December 2018 07: 01
              -1
              ..mobiles are easily reflash ..
          2. Tank hard
            Tank hard 3 December 2018 22: 28
            +1
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            if it’s much easier to buy illegal weapons?

            Is it really so easy to buy illegal?
            1. Talgarets
              Talgarets 4 December 2018 12: 20
              +2
              At one time I was offered PM for $ 500 and TT for 400
        2. Talgarets
          Talgarets 4 December 2018 12: 19
          +3
          When trying to take away a weapon there is a great risk of running into a bullet ... It seems to me easier to buy. In principle, it’s quite possible to use a piece of pipe as an instrument, especially against unarmed ones, and even in a company of 2-3 people ...
    3. Ezekiel 25-17
      Ezekiel 25-17 3 December 2018 10: 43
      +5
      I lived in the States for 4, 5 years: when a policeman stops you, sit in the car and wait for it to come. Everyone knows that.
    4. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 11: 21
      +9
      Quote: Squelcher
      The deceased was unarmed, but the policeman opened

      This is undoubtedly a tragedy. However, I want to clarify that a deaf and dumb driver could not hear the sound of a siren (although my deaf friend can hear quite well thanks to a simple operation and a device costing about $ 150), but how did he manage to not see the flashing beacons turned on by American police on a patrol car when requested to stop, was he also blind? And the next question, why did he go to the policeman pointing a gun at him?
      Well, a couple of nuances, now many policemen wear bodicams (miniature video cameras mounted on clothes), and there are many videos on the Internet from these cameras, there are even channels on YouTube, and here it is clear that even an armed suspect is not shot right away, but first they demand to give up weapons and only if the latter does not comply with the requirement or tries to point the weapon at a police officer or civilian, only then they shoot him.
      1. Squelcher
        Squelcher 3 December 2018 11: 39
        0
        How do you comment on this video ????

        https://www.google.ru/amp/s/m.tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201712091742-ed8x.htm/amp/
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 12: 28
          -1
          Quote: Squelcher
          https://www.google.ru/amp/s/m.tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201712091742-ed8x.htm/amp/

          On request https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201712091742 ... nothing was found.
          1. Squelcher
            Squelcher 3 December 2018 13: 03
            +1
            I have three options, either you copied it incorrectly or you are cunning, maybe there’s just nothing to object :).
            https://youtu.be/D-AzaxKzJ24
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 13: 57
              0
              Quote: Squelcher
              You copied or cheated incorrectly

              I copied correctly, and I have no habit of cunning. All claims to google.
              Quote: Squelcher
              Here is the same with youtube.

              Ahhhh, this video on Daniel Shaver has been taken apart more than once - the person who detained him violated almost all the instructions and must go to jail. Local jurors acquitted the killer, although he was fired from the police, but this crime was so egregious that the feds took charge of him and now the Ministry of Justice is investigating the matter.
      2. your1970
        your1970 4 December 2018 12: 44
        -2
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        there are a lot of videos on the Internet from these cameras, there are even channels on YouTube, and here you can see that even an armed suspect is not shot right away,
        - only in Fergusson they killed for comb
  2. Squelcher
    Squelcher 3 December 2018 06: 23
    +1
    In the US, in the city of Sacramento, California, police officers shot and killed an unarmed black man. They confused the smartphone in his hand with the gun. About this writes the local portal Sacbee.com.
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 3 December 2018 08: 35
      +4
      It happens. At them. Our nerves will be stronger. And the laws regarding the police can be amended.
      1. Squelcher
        Squelcher 3 December 2018 10: 32
        +4
        When there is a high probability of being on the short-barreled, I can say for sure the police will shoot and the nerves have nothing to do with it, there will be "non-flopophobes" who will shoot the police a couple of times due to stupidity, stupidity or drunkenness and immediately change the instructions for the police.
    2. TURAR
      TURAR 19 December 2018 01: 42
      +1
      In Russia, a criminal killed a woman, while the woman went to the police more than once. Explaining that she is threatened. In Russia, you cannot spoil the statistics with the police, that's when you are "killed" then come !! The principle must be changed, my house is on the edge. And now, in front of our policemen, I don't want to make remarks to a drunk on the playground. And to beat the face of health is not enough.
  3. 210ox
    210ox 3 December 2018 06: 25
    0
    What kind of "dog" is such a "hoplof ...? And where have you seen" full of Russians "in Georgia? The author was hanging stereotypes and trying to get his idea in. By the way, a drunkard will not buy a short-barreled barrel. And for defense (well, those who consider themselves omnipresent Rimbaud, and waiting for danger from everywhere) I advise "Wasp". The author wish to live peacefully, without provoking anyone, and then wearing a holster will not be needed. Like me for example. Yes, and my big family. Without excesses and problems with weapons.
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 3 December 2018 08: 40
      +9
      Are Georgians calmer than Russians? By the way, nobody needs your advice. People have their own heads on their shoulders. Who understands all the illusions associated with the notorious "Wasp". And why do you consider it possible to restrict other people? Nobody limits you in your addictions ...
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 3 December 2018 17: 05
        +9
        Are Georgians calmer than Russians?
        You do not understand. Georgians are people, and we are despicable animals which, in principle, cannot be trusted. Russians in general cannot be trusted, is it really incomprehensible? Here you specifically can’t give up arms. You are not trustworthy. And I'm not worthy. And practically no one.
        In addition, all sorts of dangers we can only imagine. We are paranoid, in addition to being unworthy of trust. That is, we still have problems with the brains. And we are weaklings and cowards who immediately take away criminal elements from weapons, hardly we miraculously manage to get it. Well, etc.
        Unfortunately, it is generally useless to talk to hoplophobes. Here is your opponent read the article. So what? He simply gives all the same "arguments" to which the author gave answers in the article.
        And everyone else is the same in the comments do the same. How to talk with someone from whose skull any arguments just slide off? Drop this useless activity ...
  4. Squelcher
    Squelcher 3 December 2018 06: 31
    -3
    The 26-year-old father of two children, Daniel Shaver, stayed in a hotel in Marikop County and in the evening he was visited by guests with whom he talked about work. Daniel said that he works for hire with the Volmart company and shoots small birds that fly into supermarkets, after which he showed the guests an air rifle and a dead sparrow.
    And then the police arrived ....
    Admire the short-barrel lobbyists ...
    https://www.google.ru/amp/s/m.tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201712091742-ed8x.htm/amp/
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 3 December 2018 08: 41
      +1
      How scary ...
    2. Gepirion
      Gepirion 7 February 2019 13: 08
      0
      And what does the COP have to do with this video? Or just throw something?
  5. polar fox
    polar fox 3 December 2018 06: 51
    +16
    Mikhail's supporters do not comment in any way. I’m just tired of shaking the air and stomping Klava. I wouldn’t refuse on my own. Although I have a smooth bore. I live in the village, I often need it (either the Gypsies try to rob a neighbor in broad daylight, or the receptionists of the non-ferrous metal gate are neighbors in I liked 3 nights ...) I myself got into different situations, including when 4 nariks of a taxi driver were killed (you can't name it differently when they just slaughtered) ... at this time, the knife on the belt is almost constantly present. The hope for "law enforcement officers" ? ... so here you still need to understand whose right they are protecting.
    and to Mikhail ... as one authority at the end of 90 told me: why do you need to make a rifled? buy clean, and let it lie, you need to work it out and throw it away, why are you having extra problems? You’re an opera, I have to understand ...
    1. Warrior2015
      Warrior2015 3 December 2018 22: 15
      +3
      Quote: polar fox
      as one authority at the end of 90, he told me: why do you need to make a rifled one? buy it clean, and let it lie, you will need it, work it off and throw off, why the extra problems do you have?

      Yes, in many cases this is probably an ideal option - but there is a very big problem - buying a really clean and at the same time illegal stem, it is almost impossible.
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 4 December 2018 17: 12
        -1
        Quote: Warrior2015
        Quote: polar fox
        as one authority at the end of 90, he told me: why do you need to make a rifled one? buy it clean, and let it lie, you will need it, work it off and throw off, why the extra problems do you have?

        Yes, in many cases this is probably an ideal option - but there is a very big problem - buying a really clean and at the same time illegal stem, it is almost impossible.

        Especially if the sellers are FSB or police officers! wassat fellow
      2. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 5 December 2018 01: 07
        +1
        Quote: Warrior2015
        Yes, in many cases this may be ideal, but there is a very big problem - buying a really clean and illegal trunk is almost impossible.

        The "counterparties" of the heads of military depots from the country "404" would disagree with you ...
    2. Xazarin
      Xazarin 4 December 2018 12: 35
      0
      Е
      Quote: polar fox
      Mikhail's supporters do not comment in any way. I’m just tired of shaking the air and stomping Klava. I wouldn’t refuse on my own. Although I have a smooth bore. I live in the village, I often need it (either the Gypsies try to rob a neighbor in broad daylight, or the receptionists of the non-ferrous metal gate are neighbors in I liked 3 nights ...) I myself got into different situations, including when 4 nariks of a taxi driver were killed (you can't name it differently when they just slaughtered) ... at this time, the knife on the belt is almost constantly present. The hope for "law enforcement officers" ? ... so here you still need to understand whose right they are protecting.
      and to Mikhail ... as one authority at the end of 90 told me: why do you need to make a rifled? buy clean, and let it lie, you need to work it out and throw it away, why are you having extra problems? You’re an opera, I have to understand ...


      Competent comment. On my own I’ll add a cop in a large city is more dangerous for casual passers-by than for attackers. I know a considerable number of examples when armed people were robbed and money was taken away and trunks in addition. In the event of a planned attack, you will not have time to take advantage. And you’ll start to drive the gopot, shoot someone and sit down for a long time. I even stopped wearing a knife, immediately there were less conflict situations. And if you really need to, cut off the excess, here you have the COP, very killer by the way)
  6. Brigadier
    Brigadier 3 December 2018 07: 01
    +25
    When gangsters will kill you in a back alley, and you will not be able to protect your life, then you will regret that you were against the short-circuit ...
    Although, on the other hand, in the grave you will already be indifferent ... sad
    Only full clinical and-d-and-o-t-s can say that having received a short barrel, people will immediately rush to kill each other ... Each has knives at home, some have axes ...
    So what? Have you already killed many?
    1. Squelcher
      Squelcher 3 December 2018 07: 16
      -5
      As the idiotic statement says, get an idiotic answer.
      He spent mountain blasting, worked with tolium, octogen, hexagen, didn’t kill anyone, why explosives aren’t legalized, if bandits in a dark alley kill me, I can blow them up! :)
      1. Squelcher
        Squelcher 3 December 2018 07: 36
        +9
        But seriously, we must first of all change the law on self-defense (which works against the defender), and the short-barrel is a stupid fetish, unfortunately often not very smart and not very brave people.
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 12: 56
          -1
          Quote: Squelcher
          But seriously, we must first of all change the law on self-defense (which works against the defender)

          Please show in article 37 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation places that work against the defender.
      2. meandr51
        meandr51 3 December 2018 08: 44
        +5
        And they have long been legalized. For example, fertilizers based on nitrate, aluminum and much more ...
        1. Avior
          Avior 3 December 2018 10: 55
          -1
          if you explode, then you’ll find out how they are legalized
      3. Galleon
        Galleon 3 December 2018 09: 35
        +11
        If you do not like the opponent’s arguments, this does not give you the right to call them idiotic. Watch your tongue. These are the people whose easy-going language easily turns to insults, are most afraid of any answer, not just a short-barrel. In any dispute on this subject, opponents of permission for this type of weapon are boors. Durable rate. Unfortunately.
        Why not be friendly or just not control yourself?
        1. Squelcher
          Squelcher 3 December 2018 15: 36
          -9
          Idiotic I called the statement of a supporter of the short-barreled "foreman" - this is his phrase "Only complete clinical and-d-e-o-s can say that having received a short-barrel, people will immediately rush to kill each other ... At home. everyone has knives, some have axes ... ", and now think about the words of the person who wants to legalize the short-barrel, and who is a boor in our situation :)
          1. Galleon
            Galleon 3 December 2018 15: 51
            +6
            Quote: Squelcher
            Idiotic I called the statement of the short-barreled supporter of the "foreman" - this is his phrase "Only complete clinical and-d-e-o-s can say that having received a short-barreled, people will immediately rush to kill each other

            Do you understand that, you say the following: "having received a short-barrel, people will really rush to kill each other"? Not this way?
            It seems reasonable to me that people will not rush to kill each other, if only because the state filter in the form of a policeman and a psychiatrist should prevent people with an unstable psyche from arms. We have millions of people who have been admitted to weapons by the nature of their service or occupation, and cases of using these weapons to kill are extremely rare (maybe one per year for several million people) and are all associated with mental problems. Because there are annual medical commissions. Are you inclined to believe that outside the FSB, Moscow Region and the Ministry of Internal Affairs everyone else has problems in his head? Hunters and huntsmen, athletes, employees of national parks and fish supervision would be offended by you.
            1. Squelcher
              Squelcher 3 December 2018 16: 27
              -5
              Even if hunting and sporting as it is, I’m the owner of the hunting one. But the short-barrel is a fetish, at this level of law.

              1) The filter worked fine in Kerch ....
              2) Judging by the comments of some "guardians" of the short barrel, they cannot even be trusted with the cracker.
              3) In Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, a bank guard also shot people in the Church. How did the filter help? ..,
              (And this was a trained man with official service weapons and all certificates).
              Do you want to give out to everyone?
              Here people can not divide the road and parking in the yard for cars, with bats, gazikas with rubber, let us rush to them and we will give a short-length ride here, it will be fun!
              I’m sure now that if a policeman tries to detain me, then he definitely won’t plant a 10 bullet by mistake that it seemed that I had a gun in my hand instead of a phone.
              So not convinced
              1. Warrior2015
                Warrior2015 3 December 2018 22: 17
                +3
                Quote: Squelcher
                if a policeman tries to detain me, he definitely won’t get 10puls in by mistake that it seemed that I had a gun in my hand instead of a phone

                And you do not get it - hands calmly on the steering wheel - or get out of the car with clean hands. A mobile phone at the wheel is generally contraindicated.

                Quote: Squelcher
                Here people can not divide the road and parking in the yard for cars, with bats, gazikas with rubber, let us rush to them and we will give a short-length ride here, it will be fun!
                Yes, let's give it away. What a number of inadequate will be eliminated, the air will be cleaner and society will be calmer.
                1. Squelcher
                  Squelcher 3 December 2018 23: 20
                  -2
                  Following your logic, why take care of the elderly,
                  maybe we’ll solve euthanasia, and why we will treat paralyzed children, mentally ill, and what do you think people will be more beautiful and healthy, we will forbid giving birth to those people who have deviations in genetics?
                  Your moral guidelines scare me, you need but not a short barrel than you are better than a bandit who will kill one or two people because of money, but you want to destroy thousands because of your Wishlist!
                  1. Witness 45
                    Witness 45 6 December 2018 22: 01
                    0
                    The gangster is better in that if he kills the gangster, he will thereby save his life, perhaps in the future not just a decent, normal person, but you, apparently, are more concerned with the fate of people like Tsapko, kindred souls?
                    1. Squelcher
                      Squelcher 11 December 2018 23: 45
                      -2
                      And if an innocent nechlopofobe, by his stupidity or by drunkenness, shoots or does God forbid the child? And if yours?
      4. Ezekiel 25-17
        Ezekiel 25-17 3 December 2018 10: 47
        +4
        Our dear you, by the nature of your former service, I have enough of a screwdriver with a mallet. But for most, the 357 Magnum is preferable.
    2. Jack O'Neill
      Jack O'Neill 3 December 2018 07: 47
      +18

      When gangsters will kill you in a back alley, and you will not be able to protect your life, then you will regret that you were against the short-circuit ...

      Even now, God forbid, put a bruise to the person who is trying to kill you - sit down!
      Although I’m for a short barrel, for him it is necessary to completely change our laws on self-defense.
      1. meandr51
        meandr51 3 December 2018 08: 44
        +3
        Right. It is safer now to have an illegal gun. This is beneficial to those dishonest policemen who trade them on a fairly significant scale. The attitude of the police towards illegal trunks is well shown in the TV series "Capercaillie".
      2. Dimy4
        Dimy4 3 December 2018 08: 48
        +14
        Even now, God forbid, put a bruise to the person who is trying to kill you - sit down!

        It is precisely noticed, even if you have a six-barreled machine gun and bandits climb to you, it is better to disassemble the machine gun, and hide yourself under the table yourself. Since the life and health of the bandit are under state protection. Is funny But I don’t, because such a conclusion can be drawn from court decisions.
        1. Warrior2015
          Warrior2015 3 December 2018 22: 19
          +5
          Quote: Dimy4
          Since the life and health of a gangster are under state protection. Funny And I do not, because it is this conclusion that can be drawn from court decisions.

          To great regret - the situation is just such a big problem of the imperfection of the Russian legislation, according to which the criminal, who got his own, was severely injured - and his planned victim, who has not become such, is sent to prison.
    3. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 3 December 2018 08: 42
      0
      the weapon has one property - the war barrel is exciting. I have seen dozens of times how, after the first shooting range or just touching people, their eyes burn. they feel power. so la la about knives and axes is not necessary. there are radically different sensations.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 3 December 2018 10: 01
        -1
        Quote: Bull Terrier
        the weapon has one property-combat barrel excites.
        Well, what are you, there is a picture above, "Inanimate objects do not provoke crimes"! Like, what's the difference, is it a lighter, a child's bucket or a revolver ... Although, since ancient times, the wisdom "The sword itself incites violence" (Homer) has been known. Give people a short trunk and there will be "happiness" for everyone.
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 3 December 2018 10: 22
          -4
          exactly. and so it was and will be. a weapon is not a kitchen item. not an ordinary toy. it is for me or others who serve in the army or served this subject. working equipment. for the layman is a terrible machine which is killed. and he will crave her. while holding orgasms in their hands to catch. i am great. I can do everything now. do you want to give them trunks? and do not need fairy tales about which not all are. all. without a break. everyone’s barrier falls. just differently. Do you think the police and the bar fell which waved their trunks for another reason? all the same, the crown on the head from the presence of weapons and crusts.
        2. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 13: 00
          +4
          Quote: Per se.
          The sword itself incites violence

          Weapons keep the world (Latin saying)
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 13: 03
        +5
        Quote: Bull Terrier
        the warhead is exciting. I have seen dozens of times how, after the first shooting range or just touching people, their eyes burn. they feel power.

        Quote: Bull Terrier
        for the layman this is a terrible machine which they kill. and he will crave her. while holding orgasms in their hands to catch. i am great. I can do everything now.

        Please do not transfer your idea and your feelings to an indefinite circle of people without reliable evidence that they suffer from the same complexes as you.
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 3 December 2018 13: 09
          -6
          it’s not in my complexes but in experience. if you have a different attitude towards my words, this does not mean that I'm wrong. My first acquaintance with weapons took place before school, even when dad took with him to the training grounds. and so all my life.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 14: 08
            +2
            Quote: Bull Terrier
            it’s not in my complexes but in experience. if you have a different attitude towards my words, this does not mean that I'm wrong.

            This does not mean that you are right, because everyone has different experience. As far as I can remember, I was always near the weapon and from the very beginning the cleaning and care of the weapon did not excite blood and did not cause orgasms. Just like washing a car, cleaning tools and cleaning a house. So again - do not transfer your attitude to weapons and the perception of the world to other people.
          2. Witness 45
            Witness 45 6 December 2018 22: 10
            +1
            To put it mildly, this is nonsense, "the weapon excites", on the contrary, the weapon on the one hand instills calmness and confidence, and on the other hand, a sense of responsibility, listen to you, so all the owners of hunting and weapons for self-defense go "agitated" and massively shoot their neighbors or oncoming-transverse everywhere and everywhere.
      3. Nehist
        Nehist 3 December 2018 16: 07
        +6
        Dear Bull Terrier! You, as a past officer, should understand that a weapon is just a mechanism! But people ... This is a different conversation! I am sure that if you need to, you will calmly find an illegal barrel for yourself (as in principle, most who have served 10 years of those on the site) Personally, the weapons do not disturb me, but on the contrary bring peace. Working with weapons is akin to meditation !!! Excite it can only teenagers with an excess of toaster hi
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 3 December 2018 17: 10
          0
          I regard security as a set of measures. if on a simple change the situation. bad area, move to good, etc. Regarding the excitement, accepting the replenishment of being a lieutenant I then saw a huge number of times. at first, fear is almost like a child in their arms. suddenly fall. then some kind of delight in the eyes. then it starts to be sure you yourself saw a discharged barrel poking at each other. like you're a corpse. everything is always the same. over time, it passes through the cradle daily that it is a weapon and not a toy. and people who didn’t pass the cradles will not receive it, which means that the trouble will be for sure.
      4. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 4 December 2018 19: 04
        +1
        Oh, how right you are. I have observed this identity more than once. Sales are not clear, for which they set you minus.
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 6 December 2018 07: 57
          0
          these are reflexes) in other matters my opinion is different from most)
      5. beeper
        beeper 6 December 2018 00: 24
        -1
        Quote: Bull Terrier
        the weapon has one property - the war barrel is exciting. I have seen dozens of times how, after the first shooting range or just touching people, their eyes burn. they feel power. so la la about knives and axes is not necessary. there are radically different sensations.

        hi Also "it" many times noticed how men and women (of all ages!) Do not "transform" well, right before our eyes request , for the first time taking a loaded "barrel" in their hands ... then they, for the most part, seize "surging feelings", but at the first moment "this" is very visible.
        1. Bull Terrier
          Bull Terrier 6 December 2018 07: 59
          +2
          for short barrels people are pleased for whom weapons are already a familiar and beloved thing. they just forget that in addition to the scanty number of people familiar with weapons, a huge number of people will appear about whom you and I are talking.
    4. Per se.
      Per se. 3 December 2018 11: 52
      +2
      Quote: Brigadier
      When gangsters will kill you in a back alley, and you will not be able to protect your life, then you will regret that you were against the short-circuit ...
      The problem is that in a back alley, you can be killed with your short-barrel, or with your short-barrel. To paint at home in front of a mirror, like, "Did you tell me that ?!", pulling out of "wide trousers", as a rule, are far from the bitter truth of life, where it is easy, without show-off, an awl is put under the shoulder blade, and, there is no "Batman" ... Moral, do not look for adventures in a back alley on your ass. Even trained employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs were attacked with the aim of taking possession of a service weapon, and if they want, you will hardly have time to use your magic pistol. Now about your sly picture, about inanimate objects. Naturally, it is more convenient to draw with a pencil than to pierce the carotid artery, but the revolver is definitely not for the smell of roses, a military weapon has only one purpose, shooting to kill, destroying the enemy. And there is no need for pathos here, this is not for hunting, not for sports shooting, the legalization of military weapons, this is the legalization of shooting to kill in society. This is the problem, in the "noble sword", and we should talk about the possibility of self-defense in any possible way, if we are talking about life and death. In any possible way and by any object, as a weapon (or any weapon), but, with responsibility before the law, only the court must decide where the accident is, a forced measure, and where the excess of self-defense, lynching. Only in this way, and not just possession of a pistol (short-barreled), with the right to shoot, and so that there is nothing for it. Here, about the law, and we must talk about the understandable and just, as well as about the holy right to self-defense. As for weapons, the most varied, so gun shops are bursting, go and buy. Who's in the way? If you want to kill, kill, but you will have to answer according to the law, and not according to the right of a "noble sword".
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 13: 08
        +4
        Quote: Per se.
        Even trained Interior Ministry officers were attacked in order to seize service weapons

        For employees carrying weapons openly. It is assumed that civilian weapons will be carried secretly.
        Quote: Per se.
        Draw at home in front of the mirror, like, "Did you tell me that ?!", pulling out of the "wide trousers"

        The vast majority of those wishing to legalize civil CSR are adults and responsible people, so please do not transfer your complexes to them.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. alstr
          alstr 3 December 2018 17: 45
          -4
          Most apartment owners are adults and responsible people, but most of them forget about the responsibilities this property brings. And then our houses explode and collapse with dozens of dead. This is the worst case scenario.
          At best, all the neighbors freeze because one of the owners suddenly felt too cold and he shoveled the heating system in his apartment, so he upset the entire heating system of the whole house.
          Therefore, it is unlikely that something will be different in the case of weapons. Everyone will remember the rights, but forget about the responsibilities.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 19: 51
            +2
            Quote: alstr
            Most apartment owners

            Do you need a psychiatrist help to get a warrant for introduction? No? For unauthorized changes to the heating system can the apartment be taken away and the owner sent to jail for 5 years? No? Then do not compare warm with green.
            1. alstr
              alstr 4 December 2018 08: 24
              -1
              So it’s not a matter of receiving, but of responsibility. There are rights and obligations. Everyone remembers about rights, but forget about duties
              In the case of the apartment and weapons, both are present. And there are no prerequisites that the attitude regarding duties will not be radically different than in the case of the apartment.
              A simple example. New house for 200 apartments. In fact, in the house 3-4 apartments were demolished bearing walls (this is for those for which there is already a court decision). In most of the apartments, bacteria were changed. Of these, half did not install tuning accessories. And those who installed did not configure it. And you can’t even talk about the silence mode. The first year or three constant swotting at inopportune times.
              This will also happen in life with the COP. 2-4 percent of those who received potential murderers in domestic conflicts. The rest will break the rules for "little", but as a result, and this can result in tragedy.

              Threat with regard to court decisions, the decision itself, and even more so their implementation, is delayed for years. During this time, anything can happen.
              And yes. You can also sit in the apartment according to the law. But in reality these are isolated cases.
      2. Gepirion
        Gepirion 7 February 2019 13: 20
        0
        where it is easy, without show-off, an awl is put under the shoulder blade, and there is no "Batman" Moral, do not look for adventures in a back alley on your ass.

        There is no need for unnecessary demagoguery and tortured examples of the "feather under the edge" type. And without a pen, 3-5 coops are enough already which stick when you go with your wife and child. Back street? Where do you live? in Nerezinova or St. Petersburg? In the provinces, people live in back alleys, imagine! To get home, you need to walk along a dark back lane * (hello to the regional administration). And the presence of lighting does not guarantee safety.
    5. your1970
      your1970 4 December 2018 12: 56
      -1
      Quote: Brigadier
      Only full clinical and-d-and-o-t-s can say that having received a short barrel, people immediately rush to kill each other ...
      shoot in the air? https: //www.rostov.kp.ru/daily/25958/2898855/
      and this is the question of why guns will be stolen
      https://www.mk.ru/incident/2018/10/25/podrobnosti-ogrableniya-doma-eksglavy-tamozhni-belyaninova-bandit-rasteryal-pokhishhennoe.html
  7. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 3 December 2018 07: 02
    +14
    ... Give weapons to the brave
    And first of all - me!
    For such an epigraph not only a weapon, but a scarecrow should not be given out. A person completely fixated on "short-barreled" will sooner or later lead to trouble. You can love a weapon and have special feelings for it (I myself have had such a relationship with weapons since I was 12), but it is not recommended to "painfully love" a weapon.
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 3 December 2018 08: 49
      +8
      It's right. Some people "painfully love" their car or motorcycle. Ready to kill everyone. who looks askance at them. And there are many more of them than "painful" pistols. These "painful" ones have long bought their favorite piece of hardware on the black market.
      1. thinker
        thinker 3 December 2018 09: 23
        +9
        To rip out a few lines for a "beautiful" epigraph is a well-known technique. But these verses have a completely different meaning.
        "POEMS OF KOMSOMOLTS"
        The thunder of attacks is not terrible for us!
        Let the horizon be covered with smoke
        We will tell our parents
        What are we going to the front.


        We are tired of walking in children! ..
        And I turn to the country:
        “Give weapons to the brave
        And first of all - to me! ”
      2. Ezekiel 25-17
        Ezekiel 25-17 3 December 2018 10: 50
        +2
        The law does not prohibit the transport of legally purchased weapons in a car; the only BUT cartridge should not be in the cartridge.
        1. your1970
          your1970 4 December 2018 12: 58
          0
          Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
          The law does not prohibit the transport of legally purchased weapons in a car; the only BUT cartridge should not be in the cartridge.
          -changed already. Now, in semiautomatic devices, even in a grenade launcher, it is impossible for cartridges to be, and for magazines, for a magazine with cartridges to be ..
          1. your1970
            your1970 5 December 2018 08: 16
            +1
            for the minus
            "77. Citizens of the Russian Federation transport weapons through the territory of the Russian Federation in an amount of no more than 5 units and cartridges of no more than 1000 pieces on the basis of permits from the Federal Service of the National Guard of the Russian Federation or its territorial bodies for storage, storage and carrying, storage and use, for the import into the Russian Federation of the relevant types, types and models of weapons, or licenses for their acquisition, collection or display of weapons.
            (in the edition of the Government of the Russian Federation from 08.11.2014 N 1178, from 12.05.2018 N 573)
            (see the text in the previous wording)
            The transportation of weapons and ammunition in quantities exceeding these standards is carried out by citizens of the Russian Federation in the manner prescribed for legal entities.
            Transportation of weapons belonging to citizens is carried out in covers, holsters or special cases, as well as in special packaging of the weapons manufacturer.
            (in the edition of the Government of the Russian Federation from 08.11.2014 N 1178)
            (see the text in the previous wording)
            Weapons at transportation should be separately discharged from cartridges. "
            but about wearing
            "63. Wearing long-range firearms carried out in an uncovered state, with curb shop or with a safety-locked drum (if equipped) and a short-barreled firearm in a similar holster. "
    2. glk63
      glk63 3 December 2018 09: 50
      +1
      Actually, this verse is about war time: https://www.kino-teatr.ru/kino/movie/sov/1639/song/print/
    3. Gepirion
      Gepirion 7 February 2019 13: 23
      0
      Weapons can be loved and have special feelings for him
      For such words, I would immediately send for examination to Kashchenko.
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 3 December 2018 07: 19
    +8
    "Let's take it, friends, so as not to be lost, one by one" ... smile ..But short, citizens! Goldreher, calling! Join the "Right to Arms" movement! .... Who did not join, he is hoplofob! (Izya, you will always join somewhere ..) ... And now, without sarcasm ... With some arguments from the author it was possible and agree .. But frightening, persistent imposition of their ideas. Whoever is not with me is against me ... I am a hoplofil, you are a hoplofob ... And it is so specific and in the article it is indicated..Evaluation is given. Read the questionnaire, it is rigged, if the author brings someone's comment, wherever like this and it was written "1. Russians are generally cultureless, prone to drunkenness, rudeness and intemperance. It is dangerous to trust them with weapons." .. It would be interesting who wrote that way .. and how many of them .. But it will not lead .. But the word is not a sparrow , already released .. hoplofob, he is also a Russophobe well, etc ... If you want to cut the dough, come up with a religion .. Here's a new religion-short-barreled ...
    1. Bull Terrier
      Bull Terrier 3 December 2018 08: 44
      0
      Yes, reading his texts, there is a persistent feeling that I am underdeveloped once sharply against it. Once again) lovers of short bore are the right people and they think correctly and we don’t) speak live with me someone in the same tone I would react very badly.
      1. Ezekiel 25-17
        Ezekiel 25-17 3 December 2018 12: 35
        +8
        It’s not a weapon that kills: people ...
    2. meandr51
      meandr51 3 December 2018 08: 51
      +5
      They write about Russians, but without mentioning the nation itself. Instead of Russians they write "our people". But everyone understands correctly, since 80% of the people are Russians.
    3. karelia molot
      karelia molot 3 December 2018 09: 09
      +2
      Great noticed! I started to worry that it was obvious to me alone)
    4. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 6 December 2018 00: 19
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      But scary, the persistent imposition of their ideas.

      That you are still so soft. laughing There are signs of insanity on this topic. And now for a second, imagine it, but with the barrel ... wassat
  9. karelia molot
    karelia molot 3 December 2018 08: 59
    -3
    Offended by half the world, a man really wants to have an outlet. Well, isn't it cute?
    1. Ezekiel 25-17
      Ezekiel 25-17 3 December 2018 10: 51
      0
      The trunk, not the trunk. You two: sit down.
  10. Oslyabya
    Oslyabya 3 December 2018 09: 04
    +5
    I will support the opinion that the primary attitude to the issue of self-defense by citizens from criminal attacks. A short barrel can only be one of the ways to protect. Then ... Someday ... When they cease to assess the proportionality of the damage caused to the attacker regarding its danger to the victim of the attack.
    1. your1970
      your1970 4 December 2018 13: 00
      0
      Quote: Oslyabya
      Then ... Someday ... When they cease to assess the proportionality of the damage caused to the attacker regarding its danger to the victim of the attack.
      - it will never happen. Otherwise it will become fashionable - he pushed me, then I made a sieve out of it and made it / chopped it into pieces ...
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. Glory1974
    Glory1974 3 December 2018 09: 20
    +17
    During the events in Budyonnovsk, Basayev’s terrorists didn’t attack the local military unit or even the local police department, but seized the hospital.

    Everything is exactly the opposite. First they attacked the police department, and then they began to take hostages.
    We went to private farmsteads, grabbed everyone. My friend hid his family in the cellar, and he himself opened fire from the double barrels. Militants threw a grenade into the yard, but did not go. So that the weapon saved the owner's life.
    I agree with the author that it is necessary to change the law on self-defense.
    1. Warrior2015
      Warrior2015 3 December 2018 22: 23
      +5
      Quote: glory1974
      We went to private farmsteads, grabbed everyone. My friend hid his family in the cellar, and he himself opened fire from the double barrels. Militants threw a grenade into the yard, but did not go. So that the weapon saved the owner's life.

      Here! Astonishing example of how a simple double-barrel helped to stop even Basayev’s militants! This is yet another confirmation - the offender is always looking for the most accessible victim!
  13. Cananecat
    Cananecat 3 December 2018 09: 26
    +5
    At each point of the author, if you wish, you can find a refutation ... not the point ... the point is that you need to change the law, but a certain lobby will not do that ...
    1. Ezekiel 25-17
      Ezekiel 25-17 3 December 2018 12: 39
      +1
      The fact is that weapons make a person free, equal among equals: "... God created people, and Colt made them equal ..." Our government does not need such.
  14. The comment was deleted.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 3 December 2018 16: 24
      0
      Do not believe it, but I am for the legalization of not only a short-barrel but also an automatic weapon! Moreover, large-caliber !!! Dream of an idiot to have KPVT legally
      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 7 December 2018 00: 00
        -1
        Quote: Nehist
        LegoLizatsiya not only short-barrel but also automatic weapons!
        Absolutely agree. Anyone. And it is from "Lego".
  15. Loess
    Loess 3 December 2018 10: 24
    +5
    Shyly I suggest not to tell me again, as it always happens, what I'm tired of
    I remember how the author seemed to be finishing the short-barreled cycle ... Just as the pop stars loudly announced the completion of their singing activity and then continued to perform for years ...
    In Russia, 5 million legal guns on hand, 500 thousand traumatic pistols, almost 10 million illegal trunks,
    Is this not enough? ...
    During the events in Budyonnovsk, Basayev’s terrorists didn’t attack the local military unit or even the local police department, but seized the hospital.
    It is somehow difficult to imagine women in labor organizing the defense of the hospital from terrorists. Yes, and it is unlikely that a woman will go to give birth with a barrel in her pocket ...
    Why take the gun away from the owner, if you can safely buy it on the black market,
    Well, I don’t even know ... Firstly, you need money to buy, secondly, you need to know who to buy from, and thirdly, not everyone else will be sold. And here it’s easier, I took the trunk and no additional problems, and if I quickly applied it, then the owner will be the first to blame, and go find the criminal ... And if the owner promptly announces the loss of the trunk or later manages to prove that the trunk was lost before the crime was committed, law enforcement officers will thank him very much for the fact that the criminals acquired another barrel.
    I am ashamed in case of danger to be guaranteed helpless, as it is now. And you, gentlemen, hoplofoby, why is it not a shame?
    If a person does not have the courage to speak out against criminals without a barrel, then the barrel will not change the situation, because if you get a barrel, you need to be ready to use it and bear subsequent responsibility for its use. And once again I want to ask the author what "fobs" does he consider himself to be? Is the author afraid of people on the streets? It really is a phobia ...
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 13: 21
      +3
      Quote: Less
      Well, I don’t even know ... Firstly, you need money to buy, secondly, you need to know who to buy from, and thirdly, not everyone else will be sold.

      You described the procedure for buying legal weapons.
      Quote: Less
      And here it’s easier, I took the trunk and no additional problems

      Why don’t you consider the option of dying while trying to take the barrel from an armed citizen?
      Quote: Less
      If a person does not have the courage to speak out against criminals without a trunk, then the trunk will not change the situation

      Wait, the criminals have already opposed the person and left him no choice but to choose to become either a defenseless victim or try to defend himself. Suppose a man had the courage to make a choice in favor of self-defense, but what if he is physically unable to overcome villains in hand-to-hand combat? Weapons give these people the opportunity to protect themselves and their loved ones.
      Quote: Less
      Is the author afraid of people on the streets?

      And where does the author’s fears of the article invented by you before people? The author writes not about fear, but about the desire to be protected from criminal encroachment, and not only physically strong people with special training could protect themselves.
      1. Loess
        Loess 3 December 2018 13: 55
        0
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        You described the procedure for buying legal weapons.

        Well, describe the difference between buying an illegal trunk. Maybe money is not needed? Or can I buy from the first oncoming trunk? Or is the seller of illegal weapons ready to sell it to the first comer?
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        Why don’t you consider the option of dying while trying to take the barrel from an armed citizen?

        The option to die or be robbed when buying an illegal trunk is much more likely than when trying to take the trunk from a law-abiding citizen. However, they are buying.
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        besides the choice to become either a defenseless victim or try to protect yourself.
        In order to protect yourself with a weapon, you need to be prepared to use it. You somehow ignored this argument of mine in your accusatory speech.
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        The author’s invented fears of people in front of you? The author does not write about fear

        Well, if the author from article to article stubbornly calls his opponents some kind of "phobia" and ascribes to them some fears, then why can't I assume that the author has some kind of phobias and fears?
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 14: 26
          +3
          Quote: Less
          Well, describe the difference between buying an illegal trunk. Maybe money is not needed? Or can I buy from the first oncoming trunk? Or is the seller of illegal weapons ready to sell it to the first comer?

          It is no different except that legal weapons will be registered, shot, tied to a specific owner and thus be under the supervision of law enforcement agencies.
          Quote: Less
          The option to die or be robbed when buying an illegal trunk is much more likely than when trying to take the trunk from a law-abiding citizen.

          Why would a law-abiding person have an illegal trunk! ??? And how do you prove that it is easier to take the legal trunk from the rightful owner than to buy an illegal one? Now in Russia there are about 200.000 illegal barrels of army weapons (rifles, machine guns, machine guns), and how many barrels of legal weapons were taken from civilian owners by intruders, I hope you can indicate?
          Quote: Less
          In order to protect yourself with a weapon, you need to be prepared to use it. You somehow ignored this argument of mine in your accusatory speech.

          I did not see him there. But in essence, I’m not ready to use weapons for self-defense - do not buy.
          Quote: Less
          Well, if the author from article to article stubbornly calls his opponents some kind of "phobia" and ascribes to them some fears, then why can't I assume that the author has some kind of phobias and fears?

          You discuss the topic of hoplophobia with the author. But to call all the supporters of the Constitutional Court the people who are afraid of everyone around you was your initiative and I answered you.
          1. Loess
            Loess 3 December 2018 14: 35
            -1
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            But to call all the supporters of the Constitutional Court the people who are afraid of everyone around you was your initiative and I answered you.

            Can I quote?
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 14: 48
              +1
              Quote: Less
              But to call all the supporters of the Constitutional Court the people who are afraid of everyone around you was your initiative and I answered you.

              Quote: Less
              Can I quote?

              I apologize, you did not say this, I confused you with another person. I apologize again.
              And about hoplophobia, you really better discuss with the author of the article directly.
              1. Loess
                Loess 3 December 2018 14: 57
                0
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                I'm sorry

                Accepted.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                And about hoplophobia, you really better discuss with the author of the article directly.

                This is what I am trying to do for the second time, but the author, apparently, is superior to such trifles as readers' questions. Continuous ignore on his part ...
      2. Alex_59
        Alex_59 3 December 2018 14: 59
        -1
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        Suppose a man had the courage to make a choice in favor of self-defense, but what if he is physically unable to overcome villains in hand-to-hand combat?

        a) Be prepared physically and most importantly - psychologically, i.e. if you are afraid of an attack - attend self-defense courses, do FIZO. Without such courses, weapons will not help - a housewife with a barrel is nothing more than a housewife. And the SPN veteran will react as it should without weapons and do everything with improvised means. Conclusion - do not be like a housewife.
        b) Buy an injury. It should be enough for 99% of situations in which you can at least somehow be protected by the presence of any weapon, be it an injury or a Kalashnikov machine gun. Because if two of you are attacked with pistols, then a very rare layman will react in such a way that he emerges victorious. (And you really care about the townsfolk, right? And not about the chosen shooters) But such an attack in modern Russia - it is necessary to try to get into such a mess, as rarely. Or just around the corner they’ll give you everything you need. And from straying from street punks, drunks, haggards and gopniks - there is enough trauma for the eyes.
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 19: 28
          +5
          Quote: Alex_59
          Being prepared physically and most importantly psychologically, i.e. if you are afraid of an attack - attend self-defense courses, do FIZO. Without such courses, weapons will not help - a housewife with a barrel is nothing more than a housewife. And the SPN veteran will react as it should without weapons and do everything with improvised means. Conclusion - do not be like a housewife.

          I have repeatedly cited on this site an example of my friend, a man of honest, responsible and courageous, a former commander of an engineering intelligence group who passed the first campaign in Chechnya, which has state awards. But he has no legs below his knees. Him how to be ready physically?
          And about housewives. Are housewives not people? Are they unworthy to be protected? And if a housewife has shoulder straps and a ZBS medal somewhere on the shelf, she can already defend herself or she is still not worthy in your opinion, or maybe she still has physical training?
          I am not against healthy lifestyle, I am for physical development, and if someone can stand up for themselves and others without arms, then honor and praise to such a person, but who gave you the right to refuse people who do not have such an opportunity in the right to self-defense with weapons equalizing them chances?
          Quote: Alex_59
          And the SPN veteran will react as it should without weapons and do everything with improvised means

          Yeah, they will kill him with a pistol, and he will look for improvised means ... The SPN veteran is generally not a Hollywood superman, and may well fail. And where to find such veterans at that time and in the place where your wife will be robbed, raped, killed ... Or should only a "SPN veteran" have the right to self-defense?
          Quote: Alex_59
          Buy an injury. It should be enough for 99% of situations

          Why injuries are not only impossible to buy and even need to be prohibited on this site has been dealt with many times already. And yes, he was, did not help, sold.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 4 December 2018 08: 16
            -1
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            maybe she still physically work out?
            Exactly. This is what we must begin with. With self-defense courses and FIZO. And therefore it may already be thinking about weapons. Usually the desire to buy a car is preceded by the obligation to undergo training and exams. The desire to fly an airplane is the duty to take pilot courses and exams. That is, to bring some knowledge and skills into the brain and muscles.
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            but who gave you the right to refuse people without such an opportunity in the right to self-defense with weapons that equalize their chances?
            No one refuses. Protect yourself within the limits of the law. And then I can say - who gave you the right to deny me the right to have a tank or grenade launcher?
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            Why injuries are not only impossible to buy and even need to be prohibited on this site has been dealt with many times already.
            Weak arguments were not convincing.
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            And yes, he was, did not help, sold.
            A gun would not help either.
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 09: 31
              0
              Quote: Alex_59
              Exactly. This is what we must begin with. With self-defense courses and FIZO. And therefore it may already be thinking about weapons. Usually the desire to buy a car is preceded by the obligation to undergo training and exams. The desire to fly an airplane is the duty to take pilot courses and exams. That is, to bring some knowledge and skills into the brain and muscles.

              Supporters of the Constitutional Court usually insist on the need for quality training in the use of weapons for self-defense and the maintenance of skills through training. Supporters of the Constitutional Court point out the need to improve the system of licensing and control over the circulation of weapons. And only opponents of the right to self-defense pretend that with the permission of the civil turnover of the Constitutional Court, pistols will be distributed in schools and sold to everyone in a cheburek and shot glass. The truth is why you constantly sculpt physically incomprehensibly.
              Quote: Alex_59
              No one refuses. Protect yourself within the limits of the law. And then I can say - who gave you the right to deny me the right to have a tank or grenade launcher?

              Well, read these rules at last !!! The right seems to be there, but there is no tool to increase the likelihood of exercising this right.
              Quote: Alex_59
              Weak arguments were not convincing.

              Give counterarguments, not an empty statement. Otherwise, the discussion will turn into bickering, but I do not want to participate in those.
              Quote: Alex_59
              A gun would not help either.

              Can your fantasies be supported by arguments?
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 4 December 2018 10: 27
                0
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Supporters of the Constitutional Court usually insist on the need for quality training in the use of weapons for self-defense and the maintenance of skills through training.
                On this site there were already a dozen articles like this one, in which there was everything - dignity, officer honor, trembling creatures, and also a cart and a cart with them. But there were no specific statements about how it was proposed to specifically amend the law, issuing permits and educating people. Only arrogant words.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                And only opponents of the right to self-defense pretend that with the permission of the civil turnover of the Constitutional Court, pistols will be distributed in schools and sold to everyone in a cheburek and shot glass.
                I am not an opponent of the Constitutional Court, but I try to be objective and not biased. And so far, it turns out that somehow you can get a weapon in the cheburek Kerch and go shoot at school. Nothing personal, just a fact. Let’s allow the Constitutional Court, only to prevent this from happening, as in Kerch. OK?
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Give counterarguments, not an empty statement.
                You are welcome. You can kill a trauma only if you consciously and maliciously perform certain actions - for example, point him at close range and fire a shot in such a way as to combine the lethal effect of a bullet and powder gases. Or repeatedly fire a series of shots. All this does not correspond to the concept of "necessary self-defense" - this is murder. In most cases, the layman is attacked not with the aim of killing him, but with the aim of having fun or taking away values ​​- that is, the combat effectiveness of the trauma is quite consistent with the level of threat. There should not be a goal to kill a person - the goal should be to suppress illegal actions. In general, trauma in the Russian Federation is used 2500 times a year, 20 people die, which is 0,8%. If in all these cases the COP was applied, the number of those killed would be ten times higher.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Can your fantasies be supported by arguments?
                I can, but I do not want. Arguments only help when they are ready to perceive. And so - it makes no sense.
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 12: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  On this site there were already a dozen articles like this one, in which there was everything - dignity, officer honor, trembling creatures, and also a cart and a cart with them. But there were no specific statements about how it was proposed to specifically amend the law, issuing permits and educating people. Only arrogant words.

                  All this was, but you prefer to notice only the opus of citizen Goldreer, and even then only in that part that meets your position.
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  I am not an opponent of the Constitutional Court, but I try to be objective and not biased. And so far, it turns out that somehow you can get a weapon in the cheburek Kerch and go shoot at school. Nothing personal, just a fact. Let’s allow the Constitutional Court, only to prevent this from happening, as in Kerch. OK?

                  And where is the objectivity here? The offender was armed, his victim was not, and precisely because they did not have the right to a self-defense weapon suitable for constant concealed carry. In the same Kerch, the villain used IED, despite the fact that in the "cheburek Kerch" you cannot get homemade bombs to go blow up the school. Nothing personal, just fact. And yes, if one of the teachers had a pistol, most likely there would not have been so many victims. So yeah, let's resolve the COP. OK?
                2. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 12: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  You are welcome. Trauma can be killed only if you consciously and maliciously perform certain actions - for example, put the victim at point blank range and fire in such a way as to combine the lethal effect of the bullet and powder gases. Or repeatedly make a series of shots.

                  this has all been discussed. these arguments were found to be invalid. if the villain did not stop after the first hit, what will you do? If the striker has already come close, what will you do?
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Arguments only help when they are ready to perceive.

                  this is your problem, you are not ready to perceive anything.
  16. Avior
    Avior 3 December 2018 11: 10
    -3
    Quite often the main argument against the short-barrels is the short-barrers themselves with their stories that if free sale of pestles is allowed, the boors in trams will decrease!
    You read it right and see, here it is, Danila, wet, or some kind of Abdullah.
    The dagger is good for the one who has it, and bad for the one who does not have it at the right time.

    In any case, it is necessary to begin the resolution of weapons with the organization of law enforcement agencies, so that there is no doubt about the results of an investigation into the legality of using weapons.
    The short-rider somehow didn’t admit that he would be shot by some major, and they would write him off for self-defense, and they would write the barrel in his pocket as proof of the legitimacy of having shot him right.
    Speaking of permission, for a start, rules of conduct should be formed in society so that there are a minimum of errors in determining the limits of self-defense.
    if we introduce a short barrel, then
    1. It should be real only a weapon of self-defense - only pocket pistols and revolvers with a range of effective fire a maximum of ten meters.
    2. You need to start with permission to store for 5 years to get used to and possession of the trunk did not attract feats.
    3. Age restrictions - required.
    4. The criminal liability of the authorizing and the owner himself, including in the event of the loss of arms.
    5. The presence of complaints against the owner should automatically deprive him of a permit for a weapon; no one should have doubts about his lack of aggression.
    and so on, a lot of things that will really cool the short-shots.
    In Moldova, by the way, short-barrels are far from every step, not cheap and if you really do not need them, then no one will buy.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 13: 33
      +2
      Quote: Avior
      1. It should be real only a weapon of self-defense - only pocket pistols and revolvers with a range of effective fire a maximum of ten meters.

      Supporters of the short-barreled have already suggested this - to legalize at the initial stage weapons under cartridges of the type 9x18, 9x17, 7,65x17 and others obviously inferior to military weapons.
      Quote: Avior
      2. You need to start with permission to store for 5 years to get used to and possession of the trunk did not attract feats.

      It is also quite a possible option, only 5 years is superfluous, I think 1 year is enough, but that for this year there would not even be complaints from neighbors about noise or fines for violation of traffic rules, otherwise prolongation of the "no wearing" regime for another year or revocation of the license ...
      Quote: Avior
      3. Age restrictions - required.

      Naturally! Not earlier than 18, or even 21 years.
      Quote: Avior
      4. The criminal liability of the authorizing and the owner himself, including in the event of the loss of arms.

      Naturally! Only criminal liability is not for the loss of weapons as a fact, but for the commission of a crime by a third party with this trunk.
      Quote: Avior
      5. The presence of complaints against the owner should automatically deprive him of a permit for a weapon; no one should have doubts about his lack of aggression.

      Naturally! See point 2.
      But opponents of the COP usually do not operate with the points discussed above, but immediately go on to "everyone will shoot each other" and "superman bandits take pistols from weak and stupid owners."
      1. Avior
        Avior 3 December 2018 22: 18
        -1
        The 9 * 18 cartridge is quite an arm for military weapons. And 7,65x17 is not a cartridge for self-defense.
        The question is not in the cartridge, but specifically in the weapon, in the length of the barrel.
        I think 1 year is enough

        Excitation from weapons for the year does not pass. It is necessary that a person gets used to it and begins to consider this an ordinary thing.


        Naturally! Not earlier than 18, or even 21 years.

        minimum 25 in my opinion
        Naturally! Only criminal liability is not for the loss of weapons as a fact, but for the commission of a crime by a third party with this trunk.

        no, in case of loss there should be a criminal record, even conditional, otherwise storage and carrying will not be taken seriously. And the real one, if I lost it and did not immediately report it.
        And the opponents of the short-barreled read the arguments of supporters and understand that most of them are ordinary children who have not played enough in the pistils, like Tucklebury in the famous film.
        A normal average person will not carry weapons all the time. I have a ME-38 injury, this is a compact model, I am a healthy man, but it’s also inconvenient for me to walk with him, he pulls the belt, I take it only in special cases.
        Therefore, the arguments that if something happens somewhere, then the citizen themselves will shoot the criminal, they are not serious.
        no one will carry the barrel for no reason, and the likelihood that someone will have it at the right time is very small even in the States.
        Only those who are looking for adventures in one place will drag the trunk without a direct reason, but do the rest need it?
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 01: 57
          0
          Quote: Avior
          The 9 * 18 cartridge is quite an arm for military weapons.

          At the same time, it is widely recognized that its lethality is not enough for firing at protected targets, 9x18 even hold "sweaters" of the 2nd protection class. At the same time, this cartridge's stopping ability on an unprotected target is quite acceptable. IMHO, anything lower in energy than the 9x19 Luger can be attributed to civilian ammunition.
          Quote: Avior
          And 7,65x17 is not a cartridge for self-defense.

          Controversial statement. A shellless or half-shelled bullet of this cartridge has sufficient energy and the ability to transfer it to the target in order to cause such damage to the attacker that will make the continuation of the attack impossible.
          Quote: Avior
          The question is not in the cartridge, but specifically in the weapon, in the length of the barrel.

          For CSR self-defense is characterized by modest dimensions.
          Quote: Avior
          minimum 25 in my opinion

          Once again I will give an example - a 23-year-old kid leading into battle 30 people armed with assault rifles, machine guns, automatic cannons for all this is already mature, and buying a fart the size of a palm is still nizzzza, he still excites something there, so it turns out? In my opinion, if a person is not mature by the age of 21, then he will continue to remain an infantile "eternal child".
          Quote: Avior
          Excitation from weapons for the year does not pass. It is necessary that a person gets used to it and begins to consider this an ordinary thing.

          You are not ordinary people who want to acquire weapons, but some kind of excitable young ladies. If a person is so easily excited and takes so long to get out of this state, he will not receive a certificate from a psychiatrist.
          Quote: Avior
          no, in case of loss there should be a criminal record, even conditional, otherwise storage and carrying will not be taken seriously. And the real one, if I lost it and did not immediately report it.

          There are rules for storing weapons in the relevant law - read it, everything is already there.
          Quote: Avior
          And the opponents of the short-barreled read the arguments of supporters and understand that most of them are ordinary children who have not played enough in the pistils, like Tucklebury in the famous film.

          And what does this follow from?
          Quote: Avior
          A normal average person will not carry weapons all the time.

          Will not, so what? A normal average person does not always drive a car, do you propose a car ban?
          Quote: Avior
          I’m uncomfortable walking with him, he pulls the belt

          These are your problems, I walked with a "Thunderstorm" with a 4-inch barrel and nothing pulled it off with a holster bag.
          Quote: Avior
          Therefore, the arguments that if something happens somewhere, then the citizen themselves will shoot the criminal, they are not serious.

          The practice of the United States in which 40% of detained and killed bandits falls on armed citizens, as it were, subtly hints that your statement is somewhat reckless. Yes, and statistics on reducing street crime where a short barrel is allowed is also not in favor of this your statement.
          Quote: Avior
          Only those who are looking for adventures in one place will drag along the trunk without a direct reason.

          Here again, you forgot that often adventures come without your desire.
          1. Avior
            Avior 4 December 2018 09: 38
            -2
            At the same time, it is universally recognized

            that Makarov’s pistol has been in service a long time ago
            Controversial statement. Dummy or semi-damped bullet

            does not allow to control the level of damage to the attacker. He shot in the leg, and he clap and died of blood loss.
            The 7,65x17 bullet does not have the main property of a bullet for self-defense; it does not have a stopping effect.
            further laziness to comment in detail.
            At the age of 18, a boy is given a machine gun, but he is under control. In youth, due to age, it is difficult to control emotions, and stereotypes of upbringing crush. How old are you? 23? Grow up, perhaps you will understand what I am writing about. But we can not.
            We need to get used to the weapon so that there is no desire to artificially create the conditions for its use, for example, provoking someone to attack. Therefore, 5 years at home, without the right to wear.
            The storage rules for short barrels and long barrels should be different.
            The argument that if the short-barreled is supposedly allowed, then the probability is high that one of those present will stop the criminal, is untenable. all owners will not carry it with them.
            It is ridiculous to talk about the saturation of weapons, as in the States.
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 18: 20
              0
              Quote: Avior
              that Makarov’s pistol has been in service a long time ago

              So what? Tula Korovin is also in service, 6., 35x15 browning from this will not become a full-fledged army cartridge. And 9x18 itself, with its 280 Joules, has long been considered extremely insufficient even for army auxiliary self-defense weapons.
              Quote: Avior
              does not allow to control the level of damage to the attacker. He shot in the leg, and he clap and died of blood loss.

              Why control it! ?? Yes, you finally read Articles 37, 38, 39 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and the Resolution of the Plenum of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation of September 27.09.2012, 19 N XNUMX "On the application by courts of legislation on necessary defense and harm when arresting a person who has committed a crime"!
              Quote: Avior
              The 7,65x17 bullet does not have the main property of a bullet for self-defense; it does not have a stopping effect.

              Can you prove this statement?
              Quote: Avior
              further laziness to comment in detail.

              Well, "stop", no one forces you!
              Quote: Avior
              At the age of 18, a boy is given a machine gun, but he is under control.

              What are you talking about? And under what control is he on the far block, if due to the lack of officers for the senior there his peer with a "thick nozzle"? except self control there are no other limiters.
              Quote: Avior
              In youth, because of age, it’s difficult to control emotions,

              This is common to all ages. The only thing that is lacking in youth is the experience that allows us to make adequate decisions in a difficult environment, but this problem is solved through training.
              Quote: Avior
              How old are you? 23? Grow up, perhaps you will understand what I am writing about.

              You made a mistake in determining my age twice as much. And, no, I'm not 12 years old. laughing
              Quote: Avior
              We need to get used to the weapon so that there is no desire to artificially create the conditions for its use, for example, provoking someone to attack. Therefore, 5 years at home, without the right to wear.

              Ok, relate the same thing to cars - I bought it and let it stay in the garage for 5 years, so that there would be no desire to drive. Is this ... getting married? 5 years to his wife no, no, well, so clean that it would get used to ... laughing
              Quote: Avior
              The storage rules for short barrels and long barrels should be different.

              They must, because to carry with them a weapon of self-defense in a discharged form is the height of insanity.
              Quote: Avior
              The argument that if the short-barreled is supposedly allowed, then the probability is high that one of those present will stop the criminal, is untenable. all owners will not carry it with them.

              But the criminal will not know about this, how to guess the alleged victim has a gun under his shirt or not?
              Quote: Avior
              It is ridiculous to talk about the saturation of weapons, as in the States.

              Now yes, but the United States and Finland, too, have not reached the current level of weapons saturation in three days.
      2. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 4 December 2018 19: 14
        +1
        9-18 luger is not combat? Well, sorry ......
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 21: 54
          0
          Quote: Grim Reaper
          9-18 luger is not combat? Well, sorry ......

          Are you specifically responding to someone or have you decided to talk to yourself?
          1. Grim Reaper
            Grim Reaper 10 December 2018 20: 17
            0
            You. And yes, of course, luger 9-19. (Nadozh, but someone else put a plus sign for me, and nobody corrected it) I mean 9-18 for mm, which is quite a good cartridge. But since he was somewhat drunk at the time of writing the comment, he made an unfortunate mistake. I'm sorry.
            From SW. Alexey.
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 10 December 2018 21: 07
              +1
              Quote: Grim Reaper
              You.

              Use citation, it is not difficult and very convenient.
              Quote: Grim Reaper
              I mean 9-18 for pmm, which is quite a good cartridge.

              I agree, the cartridge is quite good for business purposes. But as the cartridge of an army auxiliary weapon is not very good, the increased charge of gunpowder compared to the standard 9x18 PM does not work very well in the old case. IMHO 9x19 or 9 / 10x21 for military and service weapons are more suitable. Accordingly, 9x18 PM, 9mm ultra, 9x17 and the like should become the basis for civilian short-barreled weapons.
              Quote: Grim Reaper
              But since there was a bit drunk at the time of writing the comment

              Remember, the abuse of alcoholism and smoking leads to the death of large casualties! laughing
              Quote: Grim Reaper
              I beg your pardon.

              No problem! good
    2. Warrior2015
      Warrior2015 3 December 2018 22: 26
      +4
      Quote: Avior
      The short-rider somehow didn’t admit that he would be shot by some major, and they would write him off for self-defense, and they would write the barrel in his pocket as proof of the legitimacy of having shot him right.

      A major with connections and NOW can easily shoot any man in the street - trite because of a conflict on the road or in a bar! And also otmazatsya, and at the present time he does not even think about the consequences, because he KNOWS that the chances that he himself will get an "olive" are scanty, due to the lack of weapons among the absolute majority of people in the Russian Federation.
      1. Avior
        Avior 3 December 2018 22: 41
        -5
        Well, yes, if the majors violate the SDA, let's cancel the SDA!
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 02: 01
          0
          Quote: Avior
          Well, yes, if the majors violate the SDA, let's cancel the SDA!

          And in my opinion your opponent did not want to say this, but what they say let's do so that the majors would be afraid to violate traffic rules.
          1. Avior
            Avior 4 December 2018 09: 24
            -1
            for this you need to change the laws and law enforcement practice, and not give out weapons.
            If a major is right without a weapon, he will be right with a weapon, only it will be even easier for him.
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 12: 05
              -1
              Quote: Avior
              for this you need to change laws and law enforcement practices,

              Practice needs to be changed, yes. Why didn’t you please the law in the form of articles 37, 38 and 39 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation?
              Quote: Avior
              and not give out weapons.

              And who apart from opponents of the legalization of the Constitutional Court speaks of "distribute"! ?? Supporters of the Constitutional Court do not want the weapons to be handed out, but want the legalization of short-barreled weapons and permission to carry them hidden.
              Quote: Avior
              If a major is right without a weapon, he will be right with a weapon, only it will be even easier for him.

              His potential victim will have the opportunity to defend himself with a short-barreled weapon, and not remain defenseless in the face of an armed / more physically strong / more numerous criminal.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. Avior
    Avior 3 December 2018 11: 41
    0
    Short-Hymn Anthem laughing
    https://mp3cc.biz/m/565817-viktor-ryabov/91801716-pulemet-maksim/
    1. Avior
      Avior 3 December 2018 22: 19
      +1
      uh, what a bastard music zaminusuvat? it's a story!
  19. vatov
    vatov 3 December 2018 12: 24
    +2
    The author would compare the punishments in our country and in the same “states.” Their punishment is 2-3 times longer and you can get 2-3 life sentences, they punish criminals, they re-educate them. They have life-long murder, we have 10-15 years. Therefore, there is less murder, the fear of punishment does its job, and whoever is not afraid of it is isolated from society. It seems to me that it is not the justice of punishment that makes people arm themselves.
    1. Gepirion
      Gepirion 7 February 2019 13: 42
      0
      And before you write nonsense do you think that you need to at least clarify for yourself what you are writing about? You do not know that each state of America has its own criminal laws and completely different punishments? It even comes to the fact that some people do not have the death penalty, but some do? The timing also varies ....
  20. The comment was deleted.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 14: 29
      +2
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      In this case, no presumption of innocence works !!! She is not and never was in the minds of judges, nor the police / police ...

      This is the root of all ills. We have good laws, but law enforcement practice is no good.
  21. polar fox
    polar fox 3 December 2018 14: 17
    +3
    after ... the guys of orientation in Tolyatti are sending out. The fact is that someone armed with a knife stabbed two women in the stomach. he left the shops in the store. he beat him two severely (the knives ran out, the hike). all the services on the ears, wanted by signs ... the question is, why didn’t the witnesses detain them? And who will jump on the knife with a bare belly? That's all about the short-barrel ... and yes, glory to Pezhe, that psychos walk freely, without supervision and treatment .
  22. Alex_59
    Alex_59 3 December 2018 14: 36
    +2
    I have had a weapon for 15 years. 15 years of neat storage in a safe, idle. Fiddle with certificates and permissions 3 times. I do not understand where you are walking, that you are being attacked or may be attacked. No, probably if you go to some factory outskirts on a Friday evening, you can run into a crowd of drunk gopniks, but to be honest, I think that this requires efforts that are almost more thorough than in the many years of struggle for legalization. It is necessary to directly deliberately set the goal of getting luli and, as they wrote in the journals of military operations of military units, "persistently seek meetings with the enemy." And I often wander around the city at night (and my city is generally tough, factory). This summer I met young people on bicycles, skateboards, rollerblades more than once in the night. There were also some tipsy companies singing Shnur's songs with a guitar - they called to sing together. Not a single gopnik in ankle boots, with a bald patch and in a garrison cap (remember the 90s? That's when they were given in the snout every day!). Somewhere someone is ever attacked? Maybe yes. And every day, somewhere, a brick falls on someone - apparently you need to wear a helmet.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 14: 58
      +4
      Quote: Alex_59
      I don’t understand where you are going, what is being attacked or can be attacked.

      And what, they can attack only in a dense forest or in an industrial zone on the outskirts? They attacked me 2 meters from the entrance of my parents' house, and 10 meters from a busy street, you know sometimes you’re not looking for adventure, sometimes adventures come to you without asking.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 3 December 2018 15: 06
        0
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        And what, they can attack only in a dense forest or in an industrial zone on the outskirts?

        Over the past 15 years I have never been attacked, although I had something to answer, and these are not fists. As well as on my friends and acquaintances. Of course, someone is probably being attacked somewhere. But I live in my city and do not see this to be a widespread problem and require the total arming of the masses.
        Secondly, they attacked you, but you write posts here - it means that you somehow fought back. Did you spend a lot of rounds on protection?
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 3 December 2018 19: 48
          +3
          Quote: Alex_59
          I've never been attacked in the last 15 years

          Yeah, and I once saw a healthy man (by the way, as it turned out later, an SPN veteran) in the evening beat a kid about ten years old. Seriously, he punches the head like that. And all this, five meters from the gates of the kindergarten from which children are being taken away at that time, and several daddies, fairly young and strong guys just passed by. They probably don’t attack you either, the main thing is to look more closely at the ground.
          Quote: Alex_59
          Secondly, they attacked you, but you write posts here - it means that you somehow fought back.

          Strayed off, yes. But I would rather instead of kneading and handicaping, carefully place the villains face on concrete and quietly hand over to the police, and not worry, be nervous and then calm the cleaner who had to wash the bloody spray in the entrance.
          Quote: Alex_59
          But I live in my city and do not see this to be a widespread problem and require the total arming of the masses.

          And apart from opponents of the legalization of the Constitutional Court, no one speaks of "total arming of the masses".
          1. Avior
            Avior 3 December 2018 22: 28
            -2
            And all this, five meters from the gates of the kindergarten from which children are being taken away at that time, and several daddies, fairly young and strong guys just passed by.

            to call the police you need a phone, not a pestle.
            and intervene directly in the situation and even with the barrel in your hands would be a huge stupidity on your part.
            for the child could have turned out to be his relative and would have told the police tomorrow, that uncle with a gun attacked me, a maniac, probably, and my dad (uncle, brother, who he is) tried to protect me. and for a long time you would argue that not a camel
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 01: 01
              +2
              Quote: Avior
              to call the police you need a phone, not a pestle.

              Yes, yes, of course it will be easier for you from the fact that the police will come to your corpse.
              Quote: Avior
              and intervene directly in the situation and even with the barrel in your hands would be a huge stupidity on your part.

              First, I cited this situation as an example of the fact that the excuse "I was not attacked" is not a reason to believe that others were not attacked or that a situation will not arise when an honest person is simply obliged to intervene in the situation. Secondly, I then intervened without any weapons.
              Quote: Avior
              for the child could be his relative and would say to the police tomorrow

              But he might not have been. In my situation, they were not relatives. Now imagine that I did not intervene and some son of a scoundrel beat your son to death in front of the passing biomass, would you like such a development of the situation?
              1. Avior
                Avior 4 December 2018 01: 19
                -4
                the smartest and most legitimate thing is to call the police first thing. did you start from this? or went to put the villain in place?
                if the second, then I would not give you a weapon
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 08: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Avior
                  or went to put the villain in place?

                  You have strange ideas about the goals of self-defense. I have repeatedly asked others, I will ask you too - please do not project your habits and behavioral complexes and other fantasies onto other people.
                  And for reference, the tasks of self-defense are "the protection of the individual and the rights of the defender or other persons, the interests of society or the state protected by law from socially dangerous encroachment, if this encroachment was associated with violence dangerous to the life of the defender or another person, or with the immediate threat of using such violence "(Article 37 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation).
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 4 December 2018 09: 21
                    0
                    you just don't understand.
                    for reference, after the use of weapons (or violence with fists), it is you who will have to prove the legality of its use!
                    or are you so beautiful that they immediately take your word for it?
                    Shchaz!
                    And in a situation where there are no other witnesses, it will not be easy for you to prove it.
                    Or do you think your magic phrase "I defended myself!" will solve this problem, do we have the benefit of the doubt?
                    I will disappoint you - the fact of the consequences of the use of weapons will be obvious and the presumption of innocence will be on the person you shot at, but you will have the presumption of guilt!
                    And from your post, I realized that you are simply not ready for such a turn.
                    And in your situation, it would be most right not to get weapons, or wave your fists, but to call the police and distract the attacker by talking for a while before the police arrive.
                    You are not Judge Dred to walk the streets and punish criminals if the situation seems right to you.
                    1. Rakti-kali
                      Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 11: 58
                      -1
                      Quote: Avior
                      you just don't understand.

                      I have already used the right to self-defense several times, accordingly I called the police, wrote a statement, went to the examination, gave evidence and so on and so forth ... And they never brought a criminal case against me. Let me tell you what else I don’t understand. wink
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 4 December 2018 17: 33
                        -3
                        I wrote that the first thing you need to call the police.
                2. Warrior2015
                  Warrior2015 4 December 2018 21: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: Avior

                  The smartest and most legitimate thing is to call the police first. Did you start with this?

                  Long laughed at such naivety. Just tell the story that happened some time ago with me. There was an episode when I had to go against a group of Gopniks or other persons of understandable appearance, and even in the bulk of their non-Russian nationality. They were a little stunned by what had happened, which was probably my salvation - after all, there was a certain against the group, a loner who turned out to be too hasty, not very tall, and even with some fat. Well, they didn’t have knives like knives, or they didn’t dare use them.

                  But the bottom line is that when this happened, my wife called the police, clearly said where what was happening, where to go (the ROVD itself is just a few minutes away !!!). And the cops arrived in 40 minutes !!!! And they did not go to the place of the fight, where they were asked to come, but calmly went to my wife's apartment and began to find out the reason for the call instead of providing assistance on the spot !!! Here's to you and "contact the police" !!!!

                  Therefore, we have a law in Russia - "the salvation of the drowning is the work of the drowning themselves." And nothing has changed, either in the 1990s or in the 2010s.

                  And yes, I didn’t have any weapons with me, which was extremely bad, because otherwise there wouldn’t be a conflict as such, and some of the attackers would be detained by me before the police arrived.
          2. Tank hard
            Tank hard 3 December 2018 23: 06
            -1
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            Beats a kid about ten years old. Seriously, he punches the head like that. And all this, five meters from the gates of the kindergarten from which children are being taken away at that time, and several daddies, fairly young and strong guys just passed by.

            Do you think that having a short barrel would fix the situation? Type get Smith - Wesson 357 magnum and he realizes his mistake? repeat
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 01: 05
              0
              Quote: Tank Hard
              Do you think that having a short barrel would fix the situation? Type get Smith - Wesson 357 magnum and he realizes his mistake?

              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              First, I cited this situation as an example of the fact that the excuse "I was not attacked" is not a reason to believe that others were not attacked or that a situation will not arise when an honest person is simply obliged to intervene in the situation. Secondly, I then intervened without any weapons.
              1. Tank hard
                Tank hard 4 December 2018 07: 15
                +1
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Secondly, I intervened without any weapons.

                Fit a gas cylinder ("with pepper") in 90% of cases, easily solves such a situation (though with the proviso that it was not you who attacked"law-abiding" и "respectable" people wink ). Checked and more than once. yes
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 07: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  Suitable gas cylinder ("with pepper")

                  This is the kind of thing that doesn't exist. The terms "fit" and "gas cylinder" are not compatible in the framework of civil self-defense.
                  1. Tank hard
                    Tank hard 4 December 2018 08: 04
                    0
                    Quote: Rakti-Kali
                    This is such a thing that does not exist.

                    Apparently you are not in the know. I can name domestic, pepper, rescued repeatedly. But something tells me that one thing you won’t believe, because you don’t want to believe it, apparently from some of your principle .... request
          3. Alex_59
            Alex_59 4 December 2018 08: 41
            0
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            They probably don’t attack you either, the main thing is to look more closely at the ground.
            To listen to you is a nightmare and horror everywhere. Honestly, I don’t know how it attracts you ...
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            But I would rather instead of kneading and handicaping carefully lay the villains face on concrete and quietly hand over to the police
            The fact is that this scenario, if you have a gun, will not be implemented in any case. You will hand over the villains to the morgue, not the police, but you yourself will go to jail. Where you spend many times more nerves, waiting for the result - on the bunks or on freedom.
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            And apart from opponents of the legalization of the Constitutional Court, no one speaks of "total arming of the masses".
            That is, we are talking about arming a selected group of people? And if not, then we have "non-mass" weapons quite accessible: smoothbore, trauma. You are welcome!
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 4 December 2018 09: 15
              0
              Quote: Alex_59
              To listen to you is a nightmare and horror everywhere. Honestly, I don’t know how it attracts you ...

              I gave this situation as an example that the excuse "I was not attacked" is not a reason to believe that others were not attacked either, or that a situation would not arise when an honest person would simply have to intervene in the situation, that is, answered you in the context of your statement, why you are trying to interpret it in a different way, I don't understand.
              Quote: Alex_59
              The fact is that this scenario, if you have a gun, will not be implemented in any case. You will hand over the villains to the morgue, not the police, but you yourself will go to jail. Where you spend many times more nerves, waiting for the result - on the bunks or on freedom.

              These are your speculations, unreasonable.
              Quote: Alex_59
              That is, we are talking about arming a selected group of people?

              Stop juggling! You wrote that, according to your observations, the situation does not require the total arming of the masses, I replied that no one except the opponents of the Constitutional Court says about the total arming of the masses, by what unknown ways of informal logic you came to the conclusion about "arming a selected group of persons" can you tell?
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 4 December 2018 10: 36
                +1
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                I gave this situation as an example that the excuse "I was not attacked" is not a reason to believe that others were not attacked either.
                Equally true will be the assertion that if you were attacked, this does not mean that everyone is constantly attacked and you need to give people guns in their hands.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                These are your speculations, unreasonable.
                Why? If you have a gun - then you do not have it for beauty. When they attack you, you will shoot. When you shoot, you are unlikely to think about where and how to aim so as not to kill a person. Since the pistol is for killing, the probability that the attacker dies after the shot is very high. What does the police do when it discovers a corpse and you with a gun in your hands? That's right - takes you into custody until the circumstances are clarified. And then it all depends on the judge. But the judge is not personally acquainted with you and does not know that you are good. Relatives of the murdered thief will run to the court with information about what he was like, and in general he has two children 1 and 5 years old. With tears in his eyes. And with all this you will have to figure it out somehow. Why am I so sure? I found myself in a similar situation, but thank God it was not connected with the use of weapons.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Stop juggling!
                I finish.
                I see that supporters of legalization like to put cons. Apparently when there are no words, they resort to such measures. Can I be sure that people who do not want to discuss the problem in words, in reality, instead of cons, will not apply anything else to the opponent? Instead of having to prove and explain something? I don’t have such confidence ... Although I am actually for legalization.
            2. Warrior2015
              Warrior2015 4 December 2018 21: 22
              +2
              Quote: Alex_59
              The fact is that this scenario, if you have a gun, will not be implemented in any case. Villains you pass to the morgue, not the police, but they themselves go to jail.

              I will clarify once again - in the absence of weapons, there is a great chance to go to the morgue yourself, this time. In the presence of injury, they simply shoot more often in the head or in the body to inflict a striking effect, which leads to "exceeding the limits of permissible self-defense", which is the danger, these are two. Well, three - in the presence of a normal short-barreled rifle - a bullet in the leg of an attacker solves all issues, he becomes non-aggressive, calm, does not run anywhere, and together we wait for the police to arrive.
    2. Avior
      Avior 3 December 2018 22: 23
      +1
      here you are not quite right.
      Yes, nobody attacks me too long ago, but my appearance doesn’t have it.
      but that’s not how everyone looks.
      and to say that all victims of crime specifically sought adventure — this is a bust.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 4 December 2018 08: 58
        +1
        Quote: Avior
        and to say that all victims of crime specifically sought adventure — this is a bust.

        For some reason, supporters of legalization intentionally increase the atmosphere in our society, as if crimes were committed constantly and each of us is in danger. And you can protect yourself only with weapons and nothing else. I believe that these are completely far-fetched arguments, fitting reality to the desired result. We don’t have such a criminal atmosphere that it would certainly require a gun in your pocket. 99% of the majority of everyday conflicts that a layman may encounter are resolved by methods and means that are now available to everyone and do not require the presence of a pistol, grenade launcher, machine gun, etc. Using a pistol, you can’t resolve the most aggressive situations. It is impossible to solve the problem of street fights, minor robberies, theft, rudeness and other things with a pistol. Using a gun in most of these situations is a guaranteed excess of the limits of necessary self-defense. In extreme cases, trauma and self-defense courses are enough to protect oneself in such situations. If it comes to protecting professional killers from crimes, I suspect that special training for most citizens is not enough to organize effective counteraction. Moreover, I am not a stubborn opponent of the Constitutional Court and completely admit its legalization, but strictly after the legislation and especially the law enforcement practice of the police and courts are completely changed. And yet - the permission system has been completely redesigned, i.e. so that a person, before acquiring the barrel, undergoes a full-fledged self-defense training course, and not formally, but in all seriousness - a year of study three times a week with subsequent exams in both the police and the educational institution. I think that this will prepare a person first of all psychologically.
        In the articles that are regularly laid out on this subject, I see only pathos, inappropriate relishing of weapons aesthetics, populism, and nowhere is there a program for resolving these issues in legislation, courts, training, and the procedure for obtaining permits.
        1. Avior
          Avior 4 December 2018 09: 57
          -2
          I agree with that
  23. Matroskin
    Matroskin 3 December 2018 15: 52
    +1
    As always, everything is about money. Citizen security ... ha ha ha)) Not security, arms dealers are interested, but SALES. Allowed to trade in white, the black market will increase by an order of magnitude. Traders of two birds with one stone will fail in this case)). The article is the same as a sneakers advertisement.
  24. then
    then 3 December 2018 18: 17
    +1
    In the days of the DND (who does not remember the Voluntary People’s Teams), I and my comrades patrolled a birch grove, in which one man of citizens got used to poke a hammer on the head with a hammer. Not for profit, but for fun. He didn’t particularly choose the victims, but he did everything all of a sudden. Here an intellectual with glasses comes to meet a passerby, presses a professor’s briefcase to his chest, rushes to classes, passes by and a passerby gets a blow to the crown. Well, what a short barrel will help. The only thing is not to walk along the dark alleys, at least one.
    And the maniac was caught, our own vigilantes. Conclusion - the system should work.
  25. Tank hard
    Tank hard 3 December 2018 23: 01
    0
    For me, Saiga and Wasp are quite enough.
  26. Arina rasich
    Arina rasich 4 December 2018 05: 38
    +3
    Cherry on the cake today in the news: in Moscow with the help of a trauma robbed a man on 40 million rubles ...
    What is the likelihood of a robbery attempt if no one knew for sure if he had a firearm or not?
    What is the probability of a robbery if he probably had a firearm?
    1. then
      then 4 December 2018 06: 07
      0
      If the attackers knew that the peasant had 40 million rubles, then the probability of robbery was 100%, regardless of whether he had a firearm or not. And if they knew that he had a firearm, they would just kill a man at once that's all.
    2. Per se.
      Per se. 4 December 2018 06: 40
      +1
      Quote: ArinaRasich
      Cherry on the cake today in the news: in Moscow with the help of a trauma robbed a man on 40 million rubles ...
      And, what is the "cherry", they say, would they know that he had a firearm, hadn't been robbed? He could have had the same injury, a knife, he could be a champion in fighting without rules, he could be an employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in civilian clothes, even have a service weapon with him ... Finally, if we are talking about forty million, there are already armed collectors attack, what about some guy there to talk about. And even collectors or employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs do not always have time to use their weapons, since the attackers use the surprise factor. What is the likelihood of a robbery, do you think robbing from nothing to do? No, life is forcing, and if the social situation in society deteriorates, there will be more robberies, regardless of whether the victim has a weapon or not. Moreover, the presence of weapons will only increase the level of confrontation, you can be immediately killed, just for fear of being killed earlier. They may attack, no longer because of money, but to take possession of your own weapon. Therefore, speaking about the legalization of short-barrels, one must understand that weapons will not solve the problem in society by themselves, but the right to self-defense, with any object as a weapon, or any weapon, must be linked with responsibility before the law, which should be understood here and fair.
  27. Rimlianin
    Rimlianin 4 December 2018 12: 23
    0
    About trauma lies. Wasp is in service with the police of many countries of the world. In the Russian Federation, the military police are equipped with it. And it is enough for self-defense. In general, the best way to protect yourself is a can of tear gas and quick legs. Effectively and without consequences. And let all those who like to shoot go to shooting ranges. There were still not enough "cowboys" with military weapons on the streets.
  28. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 4 December 2018 18: 21
    -1
    Shaw, again?
    And now, my personal opinion.
    The civilian does not need a gun. Want to shoot? A huge number of shooting galleries, a choice of weapons, maximum pleasure with a minimum of costs. Weapons for home defense - not a problem with a minimum of desire and the availability of information.
    Self defense weapon on the street? I am 51 and for all this time, except for a few skirmishes in the street, ending with a banal face-fight with extremely light bodily ones. And if I and my opponents had a gun, the matter might not have ended with just a broken nose. With all that it implies. And for those wishing to walk with a gun through the streets - I advise you to cut the fly.
    From SW. Alexey.
    1. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper 4 December 2018 18: 41
      0
      In pursuit. Perhaps some solution for citizens who are afraid to go to the bakery without a pistol would be the option of a noise weapon. It is extremely difficult to kill from it, but the appearance "under the well-known models" of the sound of a shot is extremely, how to say it correctly ..... not that overwhelming, but quite against hooligans. Again, have time to apply. As a rule, if from behind on the head - no matter what you are armed with, even an atomic bomb. If "uncle give me a smoke" then there is a chance, but again from the degree of preparedness and the decision to use the weapon instantly. Which will give a few important seconds. Well, then how the card will fall.
      1. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 4 December 2018 19: 34
        0
        It would be interesting not just to get a minus from unknown opponents, but a normal discussion, which I am not right about. I have 18 years of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Let's bet. Only reasonably, without emotions. S?
        1. your1970
          your1970 4 December 2018 20: 32
          0
          Quote: Grim Reaper
          It would be interesting not just to get a minus from unknown opponents, but a normal discussion, which I am not right about. I have 18 years of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Let's bet. Only reasonably, without emotions. S?
          -nothing, I even wrote an article (also the experience of the Ministry of Internal Affairs + MO). Like peas on the wall .... Understanding that the opposite side can also have legal weapons, that if you get the barrel already, you will have to use that to get the knife in the stairwell / pipe around the corner is simple enough and the barrel will not save ...

          Comments on the level I will take out the barrel and everyone will scatter / I will put everyone's face in the ground and call the police / "kada your wife will be slammed - and you stand and cry in the corner, remember that you are against KSa" ....
          1. Grim Reaper
            Grim Reaper 4 December 2018 21: 14
            0
            Duck and me too. Like peas against a wall. Well, people do not understand that even in an extreme situation, using a pistol (I wonder where it came from: short-barreled) is not a matter of one second, especially without proper combat and, most importantly, psychological training. They do not understand the consequences, do not understand that by simple "settling" situations, you can do without shooting, well, in extreme cases, escape, but he is alive and not in prison. They do not understand that a pistol can be missed from 5 meters, and then ... ... cut down the front sight.
            1. Grim Reaper
              Grim Reaper 4 December 2018 22: 15
              0
              Minus how small children are. Cut the main fly. However, I have a drum.
              1. Tank hard
                Tank hard 4 December 2018 23: 07
                0
                Quote: Grim Reaper
                Minus how small children are. Cut the main fly. However, I have a drum.

                Yes, here, some are simply "bewitched" by the COP, they do not want to notice the prose of life ... request
                Some people think that having got a cop (short-barrel), they will no longer allow them to take the cell phone that they had taken from them before, completely forgetting that those who have already taken the cell from them may not have a criminal record, pass all the tests, and how a citizen of the Russian Federation, having received a COP, is also able to select a cell phone again, because it is not the COP who decides, but the person ... IMHO.
          2. alstr
            alstr 5 December 2018 20: 13
            -1
            I would add a little. In our climatic conditions, where the temperature can be sharply negative for half a year, the stupid question arises: how long does it take to get a cop if you are wearing warm clothes and a temperature of at least minus 10. The only quick option is from your pocket without gloves. All other options require considerable time. During this time, Protianic can be somewhat disabled.
  29. Stalevar79
    Stalevar79 5 December 2018 02: 10
    0
    Why does the law-abiding man whom the Rosguard protects need a short barrel?
  30. Zaits
    Zaits 5 December 2018 03: 29
    0
    Yeah, even by the way in which they are minus and plus in this topic, the level of discussion and the ratio in the composition of the participants are approximately understandable. And such a result is clear. Nothing new.
  31. Alex380
    Alex380 5 December 2018 13: 24
    +2
    Unfortunately, our police only register crimes; disclosure can only happen by accident. According to official data, only 14 criminal case is opened for us on 1 applications, although it was about 15 to 5 about 1 years ago. Therefore, it is precisely here that we should not rely on the authorities, the salvation of drowning people is the work of the drowning people themselves.
  32. vnord
    vnord 5 December 2018 15: 16
    0
    I am not opposed to legalizing a short trunk (I know that hunting is smooth and rifled is not a problem, you need to fool a bit). I remembered the story in Moscow they celebrated the birthday of a friend in a restaurant, someone gave a lighter a copy of the TT (even cocked the shutter, the store was pulled out). He boasted at the table, some comrades from the next table saw this. As a result, he went outside to smoke, they gave him a hit on the head, he fell and took the lighter. And they tried to shoot him in the head from a lighter.
  33. AleBors
    AleBors 6 December 2018 13: 04
    -1
    On a stake, start again ... Let's put it in order first in the Criminal Code in articles on necessary defense.
    And so, the author simply supports arms manufacturers. Hope free.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 6 December 2018 20: 59
      -1
      Quote: AleBors
      And so, the author simply supports arms manufacturers.

      There was the same opinion. yes
  34. f4b2
    f4b2 6 December 2018 16: 35
    +4
    I venture to run into cons, but in general the question is - why the hell do you need LRO?
    How many crimes are disclosed THANKS to the fact that the barrel is registered?
    Are there such facts at all? I think their units.
    And here are the numbers. Just numbers.
    We have more than 70000 LRO employees in the National Guard (more precisely, you can find the official numbers).
    There are no ordinary soldiers there. all officers. Consequently, a salary of 50000 rubles.
    Total we have:
    70000 * 50000 = 3. Per month. And per year => 500.
    The cost of the Crimean bridge - 228000000000. Well, for the gifted
    228000000000/42000000000 -> ~ a little over 5 years.
    Cool, yeah? Just giving up ONE OF the structures you can build another Crimean bridge.
    Well, or a spaceport.
    Or many more useful things.
    By the way.
    -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------
    "The data provided by the UN reports that there are 620 million units of firearms in personal use in the world. Of this amount, 40% are classified as illegal trafficking. That is, 240 million units are not included anywhere. It is with their help that crimes are committed. , from which about 300 thousand people per year die.
    It should be noted that prohibitions or permits on the carrying of firearms do not have a direct impact on homicide rates. Countries with strict and liberal fire protection laws may have exactly the same crime statistics. "
    -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------
  35. av58
    av58 9 December 2018 01: 50
    +3
    "... It is not necessary to set yourself the goal of somehow overpersuading the hoplophobes, because this is just a human psychotype different from us, which is organically incapable of living and thinking like us ..."
    Be sure to try to convince. Firstly, hoplophobes are also people, it’s stupid not to give them a chance to improve :-) Secondly, while talking with hoplophobes, you work out the argument, you only need to do this critically to yourself, refusing knowingly idle arguments. Thirdly, you can convince any person, or, in any case, convince them to impartially consider the arguments of the other side (which is already the first step to rejecting the denial of the right to weapons).
  36. bobba94
    bobba94 9 December 2018 21: 47
    +3
    I read the comments. Solid emotions. Figures must be watched, statistics on countries. Here in the comments they correctly write that in the States the number of weapons on hand is greater than the entire population of the States, and the number of killings per 100 thousand people is almost 2 times lower than in Russia.
  37. akm8226
    akm8226 9 December 2018 21: 51
    -2
    In addition, in the Baltics, Moldova, Georgia, there are a lot of Russians, civilian short-barrels are allowed, and no "horrors". (End of quote)
    In the Baltic, Russians are not allowed a short barrel. If I speak Russian, I mean a person with a Russian passport and not a Russian by nationality but with the citizenship of the Tri-Baltic. In addition, Russian citizens can not elect the highest authorities of the triibalt.
  38. akm8226
    akm8226 9 December 2018 22: 08
    +2
    Now specifically on the article. Everything is relative. Has everyone read Chekhov? Specifically the story "The Avenger"? All. There, a petty official, having caught his windy wife in bed with her lover, decides to buy a revolver and kill the cheater ... to buy it, just by going to the store, as we go for sausage, be she cursed three times. The question is - why, under the tsar-usurper and strangler of freedom, revolvers were sold in the store like sausage, and in free Russia a whole story grows here? I know the answer - because the king trusted his subjects, but our government does not trust us. And that is why she thinks - and not unreasonably, I note - that as soon as she allows the sale of barrels, the very next day grateful citizens will arrange an armed coup. The absence of a basic law in Russia - my home is my fortress! - will always be an obstacle for the trusting attitude of our citizens to their own power. Now the situation is such that any state of emergency is capable of bringing people out into the street in the blink of an eye. The recent events with Tuleyev in Kemerovo are proof of this. And if the population there still had quite legal trunks in their hands ... it would be fun .... a lot of people would be killed. Here we are, starting for health and ending with a grave, and came to the conclusion that the sale or prohibition of weapons is an indicator of the government's trust in its citizens. Our government does not trust us. She categorically does not trust, because she understands that she was very guilty in front of us. So much guilty that the slightest spark is enough - and the entire short-barrel will be turned in the direction of power instantly. The oligarchs will be the first to fall - and no protection against a crowd of hundreds of thousands will save them .... and so on. So, citizens, calm down - you will not see a short-barrel. Our authorities are not suicidal.
  39. Vic111
    Vic111 13 December 2018 10: 50
    +1
    Quote: akm8226
    came to the conclusion that the sale or ban of weapons is an indicator of the confidence of the authorities in their citizens. Our power does not trust us. She categorically does not trust, because she understands - she very much has guilty before us.

    Well what are you. What kind of trust? Fear and only fear. Very much afraid. The number of the Russian Guard exceeds the number of the Ground Forces of the Russian Federation.
    And in court you will not be justified. The criminal needs to be re-educated, not killed. Well, the main organized crime groups will suffer! How to push a business?
    On the topic of the author, there are more questions than answers. I'm for the cop. In the presence of an unconditional law, and not numerous interpretations. That's just the offender is ready to injure, rob, and people do not even think about it. The degree of reaction is different for everyone and the preparation too. And a member of very many increases from the presence of the COP.
  40. f4b2
    f4b2 14 December 2018 10: 23
    +1
    And in the end.
    We have already renamed the police the police.
    But few people pay attention that our Rosguard is simply the name of the National Guard.
    Well, as in an ordinary grocery store they write "Supermarket".

    No one should be misled by this name.

    Excerpt from:
    "Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of 05.04.2016 No. 157" Questions of the Federal Service of the National Guard of the Russian Federation ":
    1. Form the Federal Service of Forces National Guard of the Russian Federation.
    2. To transform the internal troops of the Ministry of the Interior of the Russian Federation into the troops of the national guard of the Russian Federation.
    .....
    And a little lower ....
    6. To entrust the solution of the following main tasks to the Federal Service of the National Guard Troops of the Russian Federation:

    a) participation, together with the internal affairs bodies of the Russian Federation, in protecting public order, ensuring public safety and the state of emergency;